Speaker 1: And this was due not so much to scarcity of
Speaker 1: men as of money. Difficulty of substence made the invaders
Speaker 1: reduce the number of the army to a point at
Speaker 1: which it might live on the country during the prosecution
Speaker 1: of the war. Even after the victory they obtained on
Speaker 1: their arrival, and a victory there must have been, or
Speaker 1: the fortification of the naval camp could never have been built,
Speaker 1: there is no indication of their whole force having been employed.
Speaker 1: On the contrary, they seem to have turned to cultivation
Speaker 1: of the Chersonese and to piracy from want of supplies.
Speaker 1: This was what really enabled the Trojans to keep the
Speaker 1: field for then ten years against them, the dispersion of
Speaker 1: the enemy making them always a match for the detachment
Speaker 1: left behind. In short, if they had stuck to the siege,
Speaker 1: the capture of Troy would have cost them less time
Speaker 1: and less trouble. But as want of money proved the
Speaker 1: weakness of earlier expeditions, so from the same cause. Even
Speaker 1: the one in question, more famous than its predecessors, may
Speaker 1: be pronounced on the evidence of what it accomplished, to
Speaker 1: have been inferior to its renown and to the current
Speaker 1: opinion about it. Formed under the tuition of the poets. Hi,
Speaker 1: Hello there, welcome, This is let's talk about MIT's baby.
Speaker 1: You're rather let's talk about myths and how they interact
Speaker 1: with history. But that's a little wordy. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: live here with another episode diving into the Bronze Age
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean and leading up to its momentous collapse. We've
Speaker 1: already looked at the Bronze Age people of Greece, the
Speaker 1: Minoans based on Creed, and the Myceneans on the mainland
Speaker 1: and later on the islands, the broader Aegean, if you will,
Speaker 1: But what about the rest of the Bronze Age med Well,
Speaker 1: today we're going to try our best to touch on
Speaker 1: the other important cultures of that time, how they interacted
Speaker 1: with the Greeks, and what marks were left behind in
Speaker 1: those Homeric epics that I so love to talk about.
Speaker 1: Like just now, at the beginning, that quote I read
Speaker 1: up top once again was from Thucydides, and again just
Speaker 1: this really perhaps dry sounding, but really interesting look at
Speaker 1: how an ancient Athenian historian so many centuries later tried
Speaker 1: to reason lee parse out how the Trojan War might
Speaker 1: have happened. This is episode two fifty eight, when history
Speaker 1: becomes mythology. Bronze Age Greece in the wider Mediterranean. We've
Speaker 1: talked about the people that we identify with the Greeks
Speaker 1: during the Bronze Age again, the Minoans and the Myceneans,
Speaker 1: and how they operated within their own realms, and so far,
Speaker 1: you know, we've emphasized just how connected they were with
Speaker 1: the wider Mediterranean, but we need to look at what
Speaker 1: that wider Mediterranean was. So far we've only really looked
Speaker 1: at how the Minoans and the Myceneans interacted with each other.
Speaker 1: And that's where today comes in. The Bronze Age Agean,
Speaker 1: that is, the Bronze Age Greeks we will refer to
Speaker 1: as the Aegean was really only a small piece of
Speaker 1: the wider Bronze Age Mediterranean when it comes to looking
Speaker 1: at the med as a whole. At this time, the
Speaker 1: impact of the people in the Aegean was like, really
Speaker 1: quite small compared to the other peoples and cultures that
Speaker 1: existed at this time. The Aegean was like the backwater cousins.
Speaker 1: We love them. They did amazing cool stuff and are
Speaker 1: objectively the only reason I have a career. But when
Speaker 1: compared to the rest of the Mediterranean and the Near
Speaker 1: East during this time period, oh, they are vastly overshadowed.
Speaker 1: The Bronze ag Gan really grew up underneath these other
Speaker 1: areas and were in contact with them in various ways
Speaker 1: throughout the entire period, but they never became a big player.
Speaker 1: They were the younger siblings who came along when the
Speaker 1: rest were already grown, just trying to catch up to
Speaker 1: the big kids around them. It's important to remember this,
Speaker 1: you know, when we consider how these cultures interacted and
Speaker 1: influenced each other, and how these connections influenced later myths.
Speaker 1: You know, they did not exist in isolation. They were
Speaker 1: one piece of the wider puzzle of the time, and
Speaker 1: their place in it, while very important, was small compared
Speaker 1: to what the other major players were doing. Now, we
Speaker 1: do not have time to go into any depths on
Speaker 1: what the other cultures were at this time and what
Speaker 1: they were doing, but I will touch on them, oh
Speaker 1: so briefly to give you an overview of the various
Speaker 1: trade conflicts and contacts that are happening. We've already looked
Speaker 1: at the Aegean players, the Monoans, and the Mycenians. But
Speaker 1: let's look at who was doing what in the wider region,
Speaker 1: who were the big players, because the Greeks were not them.
Speaker 1: The Hittite Empire thrived during the Bronze Age in Anatolia, Turkey.
Speaker 1: The Egyptians were of course setting themselves up to be
Speaker 1: famous for millennia, were in the levant in Palestine and Lebanon.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a certain city that's about five thousand
Speaker 1: years old. It appears on countless maps of the Bronze
Speaker 1: Age and its collapse, even if it's only taken six
Speaker 1: months to erase that history. With Western Palms. The Cypriots
Speaker 1: were obviously rocking it on Cyprus. There's an aphrodite joke
Speaker 1: in therefore, anyone who gets it. The Metani people ruled
Speaker 1: over much of what's now Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and then
Speaker 1: the other most famous the Assyrians, the Babylonians collectively the
Speaker 1: Mesopotamians of ancient Iraq. They weren't actually on the Mediterranean,
Speaker 1: but they do count all the same. All these people
Speaker 1: and empires were vastly connected to each other through trade
Speaker 1: and elite networks, conflicts between one another, and of course
Speaker 1: through the people who were moving around the med for
Speaker 1: all the various reasons. Just like people do today, we
Speaker 1: will spend more time with some ancient groups than others,
Speaker 1: but I will be touching on each one briefly, and
Speaker 1: we're going to take a special interest in the Hittites
Speaker 1: because of a little mythical but historically inspired thing called
Speaker 1: the Trojan War. It's important to remember, though, when going
Speaker 1: through each one of these ancient groups, that all of
Speaker 1: these people were coexisting and interacting amongst each other in
Speaker 1: significantly more complicated ways that I could possibly communicate to
Speaker 1: you in one episode. I have to be brief in
Speaker 1: order to relay information, but the reality of the time
Speaker 1: is that these cultures were vast and complicated and deserve
Speaker 1: so much more time to really appreciate all that was happening.
Speaker 1: We are talking centuries, sometimes millennia worth of history squished
Speaker 1: into one podcast episode. This won't be thorough, but I
Speaker 1: hope it will give you just a little idea of
Speaker 1: what was happening and maybe inspire you to learn more
Speaker 1: on your own. Gods, No, there's more to learn. Of course,
Speaker 1: not every one of these people had the same level
Speaker 1: of ties with the people of the Aegean. Given the
Speaker 1: nature of trade. During this time, a Gean wares were
Speaker 1: being spread vastly through the ancient Mediterranean and Near East
Speaker 1: because of these networks, but the people themselves weren't necessarily
Speaker 1: making it that far. The people of ancient Iraq and
Speaker 1: Iran are not particularly closely connected to the Aegean as
Speaker 1: much as some of the others are not unconnected, but
Speaker 1: they are not close. The people who were living in
Speaker 1: the region of ancient Iraq and some of Iran were
Speaker 1: broadly the Assyrians, Babylonians, and a bit northern into the
Speaker 1: eastern part of Turkey the Mitani. This is the area
Speaker 1: where people like n Hedwana and Hamarabi come from. The
Speaker 1: Epic of Gilgamesh too, but at vastly different time periods.
Speaker 1: Because the span of ancient history in Iraq is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It is a place with thousands and thousands and thousands
Speaker 1: of years of history. All three of these kingdoms existed
Speaker 1: for just these vast spans of time and played off
Speaker 1: each other in trade, conflict, and connection throughout this whole time.
Speaker 1: They are like many thousands of years older than the
Speaker 1: Mycenians even the Minoans, and there are more too that
Speaker 1: make up this group that we call the Mesopotamians, all
Speaker 1: from ancient Iraq, but we are remaining brief. Their borders
Speaker 1: also vastly changed and altered throughout history, and their connections
Speaker 1: with the other kingdoms you know, we're also present. Mittani
Speaker 1: and Egypt often had conflicts with each other, but Egypt
Speaker 1: was also connected with various Babylonian and Assyrian kings that
Speaker 1: we can see from these letters called the Amarna Letters,
Speaker 1: which we will return to, but for now, there were
Speaker 1: things happening in this region that were just so complicated
Speaker 1: and so vast that frankly, we cannot dive into anything,
Speaker 1: especially because it does not connect with the aegeanfo As
Speaker 1: much as I would love to cover the whole of
Speaker 1: this ancient history, the important thing is that this was
Speaker 1: a highly developed area and its connections mainly come from
Speaker 1: the abundance of tin in the region. That's right, an
Speaker 1: ever important metal in the making of bronze, which is
Speaker 1: a thing I just learned because MICHAELA wrote it into
Speaker 1: a script. Thank you, Michaela. Just as I am not
Speaker 1: a farmer, I am also not a metal worker. The
Speaker 1: Canonites and the Cypriots are similarly not our biggest focus,
Speaker 1: yet important to understand the level of complexity and connection
Speaker 1: during this time. The Canonites are they're sort of a
Speaker 1: general term we use to describe many different peoples, kind
Speaker 1: of like Mesopotamians. Essentially, it's many different people that were
Speaker 1: living in the Southern Levant during the Bronze Age. There
Speaker 1: were various kingdom states that were connected to others in
Speaker 1: the area through vassal relationships, mainly with Egypt because it
Speaker 1: was the next one over. The Cypriots, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: were the people living on and from the island of
Speaker 1: Cyprus off the Lava. Cypress was an extremely important island,
Speaker 1: not only for its strategic position, but also for the
Speaker 1: wealth of copper that was found on the island. Cyprus
Speaker 1: is so well known for its copper throat history that
Speaker 1: the word copper comes from Cypress, specifically es Cyprium in
Speaker 1: Latin or the metal of Cyprus. And guess what you
Speaker 1: need for bronze, that's right, copper. So now we know
Speaker 1: where the two major pieces of the bronze puzzle were found,
Speaker 1: and I know what you need to make bronze. Tin
Speaker 1: was found primarily in this region of Asian Iraq and Iran,
Speaker 1: and then copper from Cyprus, and not only was Cyprus
Speaker 1: famous for its copper, but it also had a vast
Speaker 1: amount of timber. We're using the word vast a lot today.
Speaker 1: It's just very relevant. Timber in ancient history was hugely
Speaker 1: important like it is today, especially considering they had to
Speaker 1: make their ships somehow, so Cypress in credit important for
Speaker 1: resources like copper and timber, as well as for trade
Speaker 1: within the Mediterranean. You know, it's this big island kind
Speaker 1: of centrally in the southeast. Lots happening there, similar to
Speaker 1: crete in that way, just in a very different spot,
Speaker 1: and the Cypriots really took their role as traders to heart.
Speaker 1: There's evidence for Cypriots moving and existing all throughout the
Speaker 1: Mediterranean and the Near East. In fact, it's very likely
Speaker 1: that there was a group of Cypriots living in turns
Speaker 1: on the Peloponnesian Peninsula of Greece during the late thirteenth century,
Speaker 1: which is just alongside the Mycenians and goes to show
Speaker 1: just the extent of their reach in these trade networks.
Speaker 1: Considering that the majority of copper that was used was
Speaker 1: Cypriot in origin, this makes sense as you would expect
Speaker 1: the people who originated from that island to take an
Speaker 1: interest in bringing these wears around the Mediterranean, and Cypriot
Speaker 1: wears are found pretty much everywhere in the Bronze Age
Speaker 1: they got around. Further connections with the Aegean appears in
Speaker 1: the use of Kipro Minoan script, this writing system that
Speaker 1: has yet to been deciphered, but the syllabarry that's used
Speaker 1: is so similar to linear a that this connection between
Speaker 1: Cyprus and Minoan crete is made. And this script appears
Speaker 1: not only on Cyprus, but is also found in various
Speaker 1: coastal sites around the Mediterranean. And for even further Aegean connections,
Speaker 1: we have the vast amount of mysony and pottery found
Speaker 1: on the island. Now, granted, mycening and pottery is found
Speaker 1: all over the place along the Mediterranean. As you heard
Speaker 1: last week, it made it all the way to Portugal,
Speaker 1: and not because you know, it was particularly astounding or anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it's someone's favorite, but most likely
Speaker 1: because the goods found within it were what was more
Speaker 1: highly valued olive, oil, wine, perfumes, et cetera. But because
Speaker 1: those things were so sowed after then the pottery remains
Speaker 1: as far as those items traveled it's just what joy.
Speaker 1: Archaeology is a joy, and so you know, just the
Speaker 1: existence of that pottery shows us the extent of trading
Speaker 1: that the Mycenians and the Cypriots were collectively involved with.
Speaker 1: And now, with that brief look at some of the
Speaker 1: other major players in the Mediterranean at this time, we
Speaker 1: are left with the two that we are going to
Speaker 1: focus on the most, the Hittites and the Egyptians. I'm
Speaker 1: sure everyone is at least somewhat familiar with the Egyptians
Speaker 1: and the extent of their power throughout not only the
Speaker 1: Bronze Age, but into the Iron Age and beyond. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're the ancient Egyptians. They are in old power, one
Speaker 1: whose history is so long that it's almost incomprehensible, and
Speaker 1: there's no way that we can cover even like a
Speaker 1: tiny bit of how deep it goes. But we also
Speaker 1: can't ignore them because they were a major player, and because,
Speaker 1: I mean, I have seen the cinematic artistry that is
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine's The Mummy. I know what happens when
Speaker 1: you forget your manners with the ancient Egyptians, and I
Speaker 1: will not be falling for that trap. So back in
Speaker 1: the Iron Age was really the height of Egyptian culture
Speaker 1: as we know it. You know, it's not the Egypt
Speaker 1: of Cleopatra and the Potolemies. It is not the Egypt
Speaker 1: that was taken over by Alexander or the one that
Speaker 1: was fighting Rome. This is long, long, long before any
Speaker 1: of that, a millennia before any of that. This Egypt
Speaker 1: was an empire that was so powerful they were able
Speaker 1: to flip the rules of elite relations to make it
Speaker 1: most advantageous to themselves and something that no one else
Speaker 1: could push up against. In the elite circles of the
Speaker 1: Bronze Age, royal marriages between kingdoms were common to ensure
Speaker 1: relations between these leading powers. All these kingdoms would marry
Speaker 1: their daughters to each other to secure relationships through those marriages.
Speaker 1: But Egypt, well, Egypt wouldn't marry their daughters out to
Speaker 1: any other kingdom. This way, there would be no possible
Speaker 1: heirs born in neighboring kingdoms who could then vie for
Speaker 1: a pharonic position. They instead chose to only allow others
Speaker 1: to marry into the Egyptian royal family because they got
Speaker 1: to make the rules, and this seemed to be a
Speaker 1: pretty steadfast rule during the Bronze Age, and it worked
Speaker 1: for them. There are instances, though, where things get a
Speaker 1: little more lucy goosey when times aren't going so well.
Speaker 1: But broadly, I mean, the Egyptians were the Egyptians. But
Speaker 1: what makes Egypt such an important and key place for
Speaker 1: our purposes? I mean, what doesn't The Nile was incredibly
Speaker 1: fertile and made growing certain key grain crops super easy.
Speaker 1: Not only did they have all of this wonderful grain
Speaker 1: that feeds the masses, but they also had access to
Speaker 1: many different precious metals like gold. You gotta love gold.
Speaker 1: People love gold. They do a lot for gold, and honestly,
Speaker 1: gold can do a lot for them from an economical standpoint.
Speaker 1: At the very least gold important. It has always been
Speaker 1: the case, super shiny, thus super important. I've never totally
Speaker 1: understood it. So Egypt was just one of those places
Speaker 1: that was very productive and capable of sustaining quite the empire,
Speaker 1: and it did exactly that. They also, though, and this
Speaker 1: is what's most important for us, they enjoyed recording things.
Speaker 1: They liked it quite a bit, and so we have
Speaker 1: lots of textual evidence for the goings on. We have
Speaker 1: the Egyptians to think for so much knowledge of the
Speaker 1: wider Bronze Age Mediterranean simply because they like had a
Speaker 1: thing for journaling. You know what we don't find though,
Speaker 1: in these deep and extensive records that the Egyptians left behind,
Speaker 1: and that tell us so much about these most ancient
Speaker 1: cultures that didn't leave us written record. You know what,
Speaker 1: we don't find in any of that any tiny hint
Speaker 1: that Atlantis was ever anything outside of Plato's imagination, That's right.
Speaker 1: What we do have are things like the Aegean list
Speaker 1: from Amenhotep's the Thirds Mortuary Temple, which gives us a
Speaker 1: list of places that were known to the Egyptians of
Speaker 1: the early fourteenth century key dates. Here. These statutes didn't
Speaker 1: just have the Aegean place names, but pretty much everywhere
Speaker 1: that was known to the Egyptians at the time, which
Speaker 1: is amazing. But we are concerned with the Aegean and
Speaker 1: its connections largely so when places like Mikina, Kunosos, and Kithera,
Speaker 1: among others, appear on these lists, we get excited because
Speaker 1: not only are we seeing Aegean sites on this Bronze
Speaker 1: Age Egyptian list, but we're also seeing names for the
Speaker 1: Minoans and the Mysinians from that time. We saw one
Speaker 1: of these names in the Minoan episode keft You, but
Speaker 1: we also get one that heads the list of Mysinean
Speaker 1: sites Tanagas. It's not just names, but people too that
Speaker 1: appear in Egypt. Evidence that people we think are the
Speaker 1: Minoans were depicted in Egyptian art, and even the Minoan
Speaker 1: style art is found in Egypt. The Mycenians are not
Speaker 1: so clearly represented in Egypt, but we know that they
Speaker 1: were known, not least from the above mentioned Aegean list,
Speaker 1: which also makes sense because Crete was just so much
Speaker 1: closer to Egypt. And then we have the wonderful Amarna
Speaker 1: letters that I mentioned up earlier. This is less to
Speaker 1: do with the Aegean but really demonstrates the kinds of
Speaker 1: kna between elites during the Bronze Age and how they
Speaker 1: related to each other. These tablets were found in the
Speaker 1: Egyptian city of Amarna, where Aknaton, who gained power after
Speaker 1: his father a Menhotep the third died, He moved the
Speaker 1: capital there. These letters were found in a records room,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we call it, because we found
Speaker 1: them there. Who knows, but they were written in Akkadian,
Speaker 1: which appears to be the common tongue for a sort
Speaker 1: of international correspondence between rulers, and then gives us a
Speaker 1: host of information on how the elites related and talked
Speaker 1: to each other. And as we will see and have
Speaker 1: already been hinted at, the collapse of the Bronze Age
Speaker 1: is a collapse of the elite power structure. And so
Speaker 1: through these letters we get a sense of how the
Speaker 1: elites worked with one another. Lots of it is set
Speaker 1: in a way that establishes them as both family and equals,
Speaker 1: like power is communicated through familial relationships, where one person
Speaker 1: might refer to another king as father to show that
Speaker 1: they're not of equal standing. Like are these people actually
Speaker 1: related to each other in any manner? Probably not, but
Speaker 1: there is this like familial shadow cast on their relationships
Speaker 1: that like binds all these elites of the cultures of
Speaker 1: the time like together. It's really it's really interesting. But
Speaker 1: the Aegean doesn't show up in these letters, and so
Speaker 1: from this we can kind of emphasize and understand that
Speaker 1: the Aegean and the elites of that region were just
Speaker 1: not at the same social standings that the other elites were.
Speaker 1: You know, they were not elites from Egypt, they were
Speaker 1: not elites from Babylon. They were a little closer to
Speaker 1: peasants by comparison. Elite for Mycenae, yes, not for Egyptian.
Speaker 1: And so again this goes back to this understanding that
Speaker 1: as much as we love the Minoans and Mycenians in
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of the ancient Mediterranean, they were just
Speaker 1: not on the same level. And who knows what could
Speaker 1: have happened over time, like maybe they would have eventually
Speaker 1: gotten to a similar standing if the whole thing hadn't collapsed.
Speaker 1: So that's the Egyptians. But what about those hit Tites
Speaker 1: you may be asking. I mean, if you're not asking,
Speaker 1: you should. The hit Tites are important. This is big,
Speaker 1: this is we're finally getting to Troy. As you might expect,
Speaker 1: the Hittites are vastly important to understanding the Bronze Age
Speaker 1: and were a huge presence on the land itself, but
Speaker 1: they were largely forgotten about for most of history. Like
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the early eighteen hundreds when archaeologists were
Speaker 1: working on Roman sites in what is now Turkey and
Speaker 1: they realized they were looking at something that was much
Speaker 1: much older than the Romans, like significantly older, Like there
Speaker 1: was no chance in the world it could be the Romans.
Speaker 1: Some archaeologists and academics at the time speculated that what
Speaker 1: they were looking at was Egyptian, but this idea was
Speaker 1: quickly thrown away, like obviously what was being seen was
Speaker 1: just something else, something different, something that they hadn't known
Speaker 1: about before, And so piecing out the Hittites is still
Speaker 1: not the easiest thing in the world. The name Hittite
Speaker 1: even was chosen from biblical accounts, but that's not what
Speaker 1: these people called themselves. I don't really have a lot
Speaker 1: of time for anything that comes from biblical accounts, but
Speaker 1: here we are. They referenced themselves not as Hittites, but
Speaker 1: as the Nestians or the nets Shites, named for the
Speaker 1: city that was their capital for two hundred years, and
Speaker 1: they were an old people, with evidence of them existing
Speaker 1: in that region in various ways from the very beginning
Speaker 1: of the Bronze Age all the way to its collapse.
Speaker 1: In fact, the Hittites were arguably one of the bigger
Speaker 1: empires in the Bronze Age, like easily going up against
Speaker 1: the Egyptians, Matani, Assyrians, and Babylonians, just like Egypt. They
Speaker 1: even controlled many different vassal states in the region, and
Speaker 1: the power that they exerted was felt across the region.
Speaker 1: The capital was eventually moved to a site called Hatusa
Speaker 1: by a king named Hatusili. His name literally means like
Speaker 1: the man of Hattusa, which is delightful. Mischange of capital
Speaker 1: was pivotal, as the new site was heavily fortified not
Speaker 1: only by the built environment, but also by geography. And
Speaker 1: at this site, what have we found? Clay tablets. We
Speaker 1: love clay tablets, We love textual sourcing, and clay tablets
Speaker 1: tends to be one of the only ways it survives
Speaker 1: that much time now. Unfortunately, not all of these tablets
Speaker 1: are readable to us. The writing that is found on them,
Speaker 1: while written in a familiar Cuneiform, is not a language
Speaker 1: that has been deciphered quite yet. Still, it shows us
Speaker 1: the use of a language that was their own, like
Speaker 1: they weren't relying on others. Other tablets were written in
Speaker 1: Akkadian and tell us so much more information about just
Speaker 1: life there, not just administrative but religious documents, poems and
Speaker 1: stories and histories. These tablets have allowed us to piece
Speaker 1: together the puzzle of the Hittite Empire and just how
Speaker 1: grand it really was, and these people were seriously powerful.
Speaker 1: They were able to march on Babylon and burn it
Speaker 1: to the ground and end Hamarabi's dynasty. Though they went
Speaker 1: home immediately after, as is their right, I kind of
Speaker 1: respect it. That was very early, though. It's the Hittite
Speaker 1: Empire of the Late Bronze Age that is of interest
Speaker 1: to us, because these are the people who had direct
Speaker 1: contact and conflict with the Aegean Greeks of the time.
Speaker 1: It is from these conflicts that the story of the
Speaker 1: Trojan War comes. With this little seed of the Trojan War,
Speaker 1: I should say, is in these conflicts. It was inspired
Speaker 1: by them in some form. We shouldn't believe there was
Speaker 1: anything ever quite like the Trojan War, but instead evidence
Speaker 1: of multiple conflicts between the groups and remnants of which
Speaker 1: eventually inspired the epic poems. The history of contact and
Speaker 1: conflict between the Myceneean states of the mainland and the
Speaker 1: Hittites is a long one. Starting around fourteen thirty BCE,
Speaker 1: the Hittites were dealing with various revolutions and conflicts with
Speaker 1: the states in their region, collectively known as Assua. These
Speaker 1: states in Asuwa were generally located in northwestern Turkey, and
Speaker 1: one of the names that we encounter in this region
Speaker 1: controlled by the Hittites is Lucia. Now, if you're especially nerdy,
Speaker 1: you might already recognize this name, but if you're not,
Speaker 1: don't worry. We'll get there. The early word for the
Speaker 1: city of Troy, the earliest Greek word and how we
Speaker 1: get the name of the Iliad is illy On. And
Speaker 1: now just a real quick ancient Greek lesson. The Greek
Speaker 1: alphabet is made up of twenty four characters, and this
Speaker 1: has been true since pretty much the Classical period, but
Speaker 1: there's a hell of a lot of time before the
Speaker 1: classical period. There is an earlier letter that was just
Speaker 1: sort of phased out over time. You'll hear classicists talk
Speaker 1: about it. I don't totally understand what's going on with it,
Speaker 1: but I enjoy speculating based on what I hear. For
Speaker 1: our purposes, all we need to know is that it
Speaker 1: was called a digamma and it made a kind of
Speaker 1: double sound. I don't know why it went out of use.
Speaker 1: It's just one of those peculiarities of languages that just
Speaker 1: happen through time. But this does mean that there are
Speaker 1: some words words in the Mysonean period that had this
Speaker 1: w sound at the beginning, and then that was lost
Speaker 1: into the later Greek that we now have. Like the
Speaker 1: Mysonyan word for king is wanax. It's this perfect example
Speaker 1: because in linear B it's wan axe and it later
Speaker 1: becomes simply an axe, just because this digamma falls away.
Speaker 1: And this is true for ilion, which in earlier Mysonyan
Speaker 1: Greek would have been something more like willion, which, yes,
Speaker 1: let's all be excited about this, because it is truly exciting.
Speaker 1: It sounds a lot enough. I would argue, like, well, Lucia,
Speaker 1: because like it is, like it's that we can go
Speaker 1: with this thread. And my episode with Eric Klein coming
Speaker 1: up next week on the Collapse is going to have
Speaker 1: more of these examples that like blew my mind in
Speaker 1: the moment. But at least for now, we have some
Speaker 1: historical presence for the city of Troy in this region,
Speaker 1: which brings me back to the idea of these vassal kingdoms.
Speaker 1: Remember how I just mentioned this, Well, we can see
Speaker 1: that like while the city of Troy was geographically close
Speaker 1: to the Hittite Empire, it has a history of not
Speaker 1: being specifically part of it, like it was its own thing,
Speaker 1: operating how it shows to, but it would often have
Speaker 1: very close ties to the Hittites themselves. But what's really
Speaker 1: exciting about this specific revolution is that we found a
Speaker 1: sword with an inscription on it, and the inscription reads
Speaker 1: as Duthaliah the Great King shattered the Assuah country. He
Speaker 1: dedicated these swords to the storm god he loved. Now,
Speaker 1: this inscription directly ties the swords to this conflict that
Speaker 1: happened with the Assua region, And when the sword was
Speaker 1: examined further, it was identified as being of Myceiny In
Speaker 1: make Now, why would a Mycenian sword with this inscription
Speaker 1: on it be found deep in this Hittite kingdom Not
Speaker 1: totally clear, but at the very least it shows us
Speaker 1: that the Hittites and the Mysonians were in contact with
Speaker 1: each other. Were maybe the Mysonians mercenaries of the Hittites,
Speaker 1: or maybe they also for a time operated as one
Speaker 1: of these vassal states to this big Hittite empire. We
Speaker 1: don't know, but regardless, we have the Hittites and the
Speaker 1: Mysonians seemingly together in a conflict with this region of Assua,
Speaker 1: where the city of Wilusia is located. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: we think the Trojan War isn't real. It's just inspired
Speaker 1: by lots of wild stuff put together. Now, the date
Speaker 1: of this particular conflict like much too early for the
Speaker 1: agreed upon date of the Trojan War, but that's because
Speaker 1: that's nonsense anyway. But what we do get is an
Speaker 1: establishment of conflicts between the mainland Greeks and the people
Speaker 1: living in the Troad. So very likely we have the
Speaker 1: inspiration for what the poets would later go on to
Speaker 1: create as the Trojan War, and which at some point
Speaker 1: or another got a date assigned to it that just
Speaker 1: was not quite right for the actual date of the conflict.
Speaker 1: But we can't blame them for that, because, as you're
Speaker 1: about to see, the whole thing's going to collapse. And
Speaker 1: so here we stay in ancient ilion Troy before this collapse,
Speaker 1: and what the actual archaeological site of Troy can tell
Speaker 1: us about the connections between Troy and mainland Greece throughout history.
Speaker 1: Troy as a site has always been incredibly popular. Many
Speaker 1: people throughout time have visited the site for their own
Speaker 1: personal reasons, but also to interact with this narrative around
Speaker 1: the Trojan cycle, especially you know, in more recent centuries,
Speaker 1: this idea of the Homeric tra as like humanity's origins,
Speaker 1: was very popular amongst rich elite people of Europe. You
Speaker 1: know it. I'm not gonna directly say it has problematic origins,
Speaker 1: but like you can make the assumption, but it leads
Speaker 1: us to so as archaeology as a field was really new,
Speaker 1: really just starting to develop. The discovery of Troy and
Speaker 1: hopeful proof of where this great war occurred was quite
Speaker 1: high on many people's lists because of this great mentality
Speaker 1: surrounding the Iliad. The man who got to it first
Speaker 1: was Heinrich Schlimann. There's no way I haven't mentioned Schleiman before. Now.
Speaker 1: He's a really famous troublemaker when talking about the Bronze Age,
Speaker 1: he fucked a lot of shit up. Shleman was around
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century to put it into our time frame,
Speaker 1: so he's pretty recent. He wasn't a trained archaeologist like
Speaker 1: we think of them now. This was an earlier time
Speaker 1: and so he was really just an eccentric German businessman
Speaker 1: who had what all archaeologists really dream of having money,
Speaker 1: But he also had an obsession with the Iliad with Troy.
Speaker 1: This money allowed him to self fund the digs that
Speaker 1: he wanted to happen, and he wanted to prove the
Speaker 1: Trojan War was real. And so this is how he
Speaker 1: got his hands on two very important archaeological sites, Troy
Speaker 1: and my Scenie, because yeah, he had a real hard
Speaker 1: on for finding proof of the Trojan War and all
Speaker 1: those Akan heroes. He's also wy the very pretty gold
Speaker 1: mask found in a tomb of Mycenie is called the
Speaker 1: mask of Agamemnon because he found a mask with a
Speaker 1: man's face on it and it was gold, and so
Speaker 1: he said, huzzah, this is obviously Agamemnon. Anyway, it's not,
Speaker 1: but it's nice mask. It just this gives you a
Speaker 1: little insight into his archaeological prowess, shall we say. Now,
Speaker 1: Shleman did not get his hands on Kenosos, which I
Speaker 1: want to say was nice, but instead it was Arthur
Speaker 1: Evans who turned it into a questionable recreation. That is
Speaker 1: kind of a bummer. But Shleiman didn't do a lot
Speaker 1: better with my Scene and Troy. His methods were questionable
Speaker 1: at best, Like he dynamited his way through the exact
Speaker 1: level where the Trojan War would have been, because he
Speaker 1: believed that the deepest level of the city had to
Speaker 1: be the level of the Trojan War for like no
Speaker 1: other reason other than I think probably he thought that
Speaker 1: meant it would be the greatest, like the oldest is
Speaker 1: the greatest. I don't know, But he destroyed a lot
Speaker 1: because Troy has existed for so long and was built
Speaker 1: over so many kind of destroyed cities for various reasons.
Speaker 1: There we refer to each layer as like Troy six
Speaker 1: is that's gonna come up soon, But that refers to
Speaker 1: the level of the earth where these certain things were found.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into more science, you get it.
Speaker 1: But honestly, when it comes to Shleman, like I just
Speaker 1: I cannot with this man, Like if you if you
Speaker 1: feel like hating him for a reason other than dynamiting
Speaker 1: Troy or assuming everything that he found proved the existence
Speaker 1: of Agamemnon of all people, then let me just also
Speaker 1: share a little bit about his personal life, like maybe
Speaker 1: you think I'm being too harsh, Okay, okay, So basically,
Speaker 1: Heinrich Schlehmann when he was just this rich businessman before
Speaker 1: he devoted his life to finding Troy. He wanted to
Speaker 1: legally opt out of his marriage and his wife and
Speaker 1: three children, and she wouldn't divorce him, so he moved
Speaker 1: from He left his family to move from Europe to
Speaker 1: Indiana because Indiana had lax divorce laws, and so by
Speaker 1: living in Indiana for a few months, because he had
Speaker 1: all the money in the world, he was able to
Speaker 1: force his wife to divorce him, and then he immediately
Speaker 1: moved to Athens, where two months later he married a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old Greek girl. Yeah. I think he would
Speaker 1: have been about forty five, had three kids. I don't
Speaker 1: know how old they were, but this girl was seventeen. Oh,
Speaker 1: and he procured this new wife. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what to do with this because his friend, I want
Speaker 1: to say, found her, but really no, she was his cousin.
Speaker 1: Kause Shleman went to Athens and chatted with his friend,
Speaker 1: who was also an archbishop, and he was like, I
Speaker 1: just want to I just want to find someone who
Speaker 1: and this is a quote from Wikipedia, someone who is
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about Homer and about a rebirth of my beloved
Speaker 1: Greece with a Greek name and a soul, impassioned for learning.
Speaker 1: So when somebody showed him a seventeen year old girl
Speaker 1: named Sophia, he was sold. Anyway, Sophia just means wisdom
Speaker 1: in Greek, and I'm gonna stop now except to say
Speaker 1: that they had two children and their names were Agamemnon
Speaker 1: and Androma. Y. I mean, if I think I'm obsessed,
Speaker 1: I would never My god, man, this man was a
Speaker 1: horror show. But again he found Troy and myceni like.
Speaker 1: He didn't do it well, and other people probably would
Speaker 1: have done it better, just like a little bit later
Speaker 1: if he hadn't. But I suppose we do still have
Speaker 1: to credit him and his pervy pervy money with the fines. Now,
Speaker 1: you started the excavations at Troy, but obviously there have
Speaker 1: been many excavations since. So we can set Schlemann aside
Speaker 1: in the backwaters of history where he belongs and tell
Speaker 1: you that what we now have, thanks to actual archaeologists,
Speaker 1: is a pretty detailed understanding of the various levels of
Speaker 1: settlement that happened at the site, not as detailed as
Speaker 1: we would like. You know, sometimes dynamite causes some damage.
Speaker 1: There are nine different levels of settlement at Troy that
Speaker 1: range from three thousand BCE to nine to fifty BCE.
Speaker 1: The level that we are most interested in is this
Speaker 1: sixth layer, Troy six, which ranges from around circa seventeen
Speaker 1: fifty to thirteen hundred. So if there was one, if
Speaker 1: there was only one conflict that inspired the story of
Speaker 1: the Trojan War, it's believed to have taken place during
Speaker 1: twelve fifty BCE. This is hotly debated. It's also possible
Speaker 1: there there are lots of conflicts. At least one conflict,
Speaker 1: if not multiple, eventually inspired the Iliad. But again, you know,
Speaker 1: however sad this may be, we should not believe anything
Speaker 1: from the Iliad actually happened, even setting aside the very
Speaker 1: likely detail of a man fighting a river it is
Speaker 1: it is fiction. The exact nature of this war, the
Speaker 1: real war, is unclear, and likely we won't ever be
Speaker 1: able to discern what it was about, nor are we
Speaker 1: ever able to completely decide what caused the destruction of
Speaker 1: that sixth level of Troy. As I mentioned, there definitely
Speaker 1: was conflict between the Mycenians and the city of Troy,
Speaker 1: but whether this was directly between each other or the
Speaker 1: Mycenians being used by the Hittite Empire totally unclear. If
Speaker 1: there's one thing we can be clear about, though, is
Speaker 1: that the war was not started because of a pretty woman.
Speaker 1: Helen is not at fault, nor was she at fault
Speaker 1: in the Iliad for that matter. Still looking at Troy six,
Speaker 1: this level most likely to align with a war that
Speaker 1: could have inspired later epics, we are able to tell
Speaker 1: that the city was incredibly important and wealthy. The region
Speaker 1: itself is incredibly advantageous, as it's so close to the
Speaker 1: bosphor As Strait, which connects the wider Mediterranean to the
Speaker 1: Black Sea, good old Hellispont. In the layer of Troy
Speaker 1: six to you, we find many examples of pottery and
Speaker 1: goods from not only mainland Greece, but also Minoan and Cypriot, Levantine, Mesopotamian, Egyptian.
Speaker 1: Like everything, it was a hugely connected area, as I've
Speaker 1: said a thousand times, but specifically the architecture itself also
Speaker 1: shows influence from the Hittites and Mycenians. The city itself
Speaker 1: was also heavily fortified, with walls and towers that looked
Speaker 1: out over the surrounding landscape, which itself was filled with habitation.
Speaker 1: The area was extensively developed and not a small little
Speaker 1: city state like the city itself was filled with various buildings,
Speaker 1: some that even resemble the Megaron houses that we see
Speaker 1: on mainland Grease. But this city level was eventually destroyed
Speaker 1: by something. Some speculate that the destruction was not caused
Speaker 1: by people but earthquakes. Regardless of the reason, it was
Speaker 1: eventually rebuilt, and rather quickly. Actually, this is just not
Speaker 1: a site that was ever inactive for very long, and
Speaker 1: just to really drill in the Homeric inspiration found here,
Speaker 1: there are some tablets found at Hetusa that have some
Speaker 1: names of people and places that might sound familiar. For instance,
Speaker 1: Achiawa and Alexandu basically Achaean's and Alexandros, which is another
Speaker 1: name for Paris. And finally, it comes in handy that
Speaker 1: I no longer seem to be able to pronounce Akaya
Speaker 1: with my regular accent. Akaya anyway, Ahaya sounds a lot
Speaker 1: more like Ahiawa. You're welcome these names. They don't confirm anything,
Speaker 1: but they do give us just these little hints about
Speaker 1: how the later epic poets might have found little bits
Speaker 1: and pieces of inspiration in what was left behind by
Speaker 1: the Bronze Age people that had come before them. They
Speaker 1: didn't have the answers, they didn't have a book to read.
Speaker 1: They just had all of these little things left behind
Speaker 1: and the stories that they could come up with surrounding
Speaker 1: those little things. Oh Nerds, As always, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening. This has been a wild ride traveling
Speaker 1: across the Bronze Age Mediterranean, and we're not done yet.
Speaker 1: On Friday, I have a conversation with you wonderful Joel Christensen,
Speaker 1: who is back to talk about Homeric epic, but particularly
Speaker 1: how the stories began and how they were transmitted, and
Speaker 1: what we know about when they became the Iliad and
Speaker 1: the audist that survived today. We might not ever be
Speaker 1: able to make direct connections between this Bronze Age history
Speaker 1: and the creation of the epics, but I don't think
Speaker 1: this series would be complete without a little deviation into
Speaker 1: the Iron Age to look at the epics that were
Speaker 1: certainly somehow inspired by this Bronze Age of Greece. Once again,
Speaker 1: this episode is more than long enough, so I will
Speaker 1: just leave you with a five star review from one
Speaker 1: of you amazing listeners, and boy does this one have
Speaker 1: a great pun in it. Thank you. This comes from
Speaker 1: a user called Kitman Forbes from the UK. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about Met's Baby. Just discover this very informative sasy dynamic
Speaker 1: podcast a joy listened to and to increase understanding of
Speaker 1: all things Greek Euripides. These reviews up Baby just brilliant.
Speaker 1: Thank you? I mean, did it roll off the tongue? No?
Speaker 1: Was it a Euripides pun? Yes? That's all that matters, So
Speaker 1: thank you for that review and on everyone else. If
Speaker 1: you haven't left one, consider heading over to Apple podcast
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Speaker 1: me happy, and I could really use more happy. This
Speaker 1: goes for any and all appreciation of the show having
Speaker 1: a rough go of it right now. The fact that
Speaker 1: this sounded normal is impressive, says I've gotten really good
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Speaker 1: please feel free to reach out on social media or email.
Speaker 1: I'm a Smith's Baby at gmail dot com, or honestly
Speaker 1: wherever I can't promise I will reply, but you will
Speaker 1: know that you made me feel better. So thanks. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Miss Baby is written and produced by me
Speaker 1: Live Albert Nikayla Smith is the hermes to my Olympians.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's the systant producer, but like in this series,
Speaker 1: I mean, god, it wouldn't exist without her for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1: But as you heard in that script, like I didn't
Speaker 1: know the thing about copper or ten, I don't like metallurgy,
Speaker 1: you know, so without Makila, I mean honestly, she wrote
Speaker 1: this entire script, So thank you, Makaila. You're an actual dream.
Speaker 1: Laura Smith is the production assistant and audio engineer and
Speaker 1: is killing it on all of these conversation episodes and
Speaker 1: putting together a website that is like more useful, more
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Speaker 1: Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology
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Speaker 1: more bronze age. What a thrill ride. Cannot wait for
Speaker 1: the elites to fall. I am live and I love
Speaker 1: this shit. I love it more when we defeat capitalism.