Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
Speaker 1: I never told you a productive iHeart radio. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: in a giddy mood you all because we are once
Speaker 1: again in the studio in real life, and we are
Speaker 1: here with a female first celebration with Eves.
Speaker 2: Welcome Eves in person. Thank you.
Speaker 3: This really feels like a celebration because I don't know
Speaker 3: when the last time we did this in person was.
Speaker 2: The last celebration. It was after the pandemic. That's where
Speaker 2: you had the fight with Stuff. They don't want you
Speaker 2: to know then, even though he didn't know you were
Speaker 2: having a fight, he didn't know it because he was
Speaker 2: trying to blank it. He left a passive aggressive post
Speaker 2: it claim on a studio the fight. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 2: do have a few got a lot of beef. No,
Speaker 2: we don't even come in like this is a second
Speaker 2: time we've come in what three years? But yeah, so uh,
Speaker 2: that was the last time. It was after the pandemic.
Speaker 2: So we came in and it was slowly right before
Speaker 2: we moved studios, but we knew what was happening.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I remember Christina came in and I think
Speaker 1: that was one of the first times I saw Christina
Speaker 1: in person. Oh yeah, but the last time, which was
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth episode, I believe we did something like
Speaker 1: that cheesecake. We're kind of fudging some numbers for apps.
Speaker 1: Cheesecake and a champagne. And now for this celebration, we
Speaker 1: have a doughnuts and prosecco, yeah, and a variety of
Speaker 1: other drinks.
Speaker 2: And now I had a lot of drinks on this table. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of Honestly, I almost had a miss
Speaker 2: up and it's no surprise because we have a lot
Speaker 2: of like soda previous drink because we just recorded another episode.
Speaker 2: And then I brought in the no sponsor poppy, the
Speaker 2: probiotics sodas because I enjoy them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just to clarify for everybody mishap regarding the drinks,
Speaker 3: I don't want anybody to be concerned about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a chance that we would have been
Speaker 1: concerned about you, but no, it was almost knocking.
Speaker 2: Over, knocking over with all of the nice equipment which
Speaker 2: we had to battle for today.
Speaker 1: Yes we have, but battle we did, and UH so
Speaker 1: thrilled to be celebrating with you.
Speaker 2: We've got Christina made a lovely background for the hearts
Speaker 2: and stars. I can't take a picture before. We need
Speaker 2: to take a picture before we leave. We absolutely do
Speaker 2: you need to take a picture, but first, shall we cheers? Yes? Yes? Uh.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm holding the glass wrong, but that's fine. Well,
Speaker 2: we no judgment here, right, I mean, honestly, it's not
Speaker 2: even champagne flute. So oh, I guess that's wow. We
Speaker 2: really dropped the ball. Yeah, I'll try to good paper
Speaker 2: cups like that. I saw in there, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, okay, I'm not refined enough to understand why it
Speaker 3: makes a difference.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I think it does. I don't know it does.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go into the the food science
Speaker 2: person over here. Yeah, don't tell us though we don't
Speaker 2: even know. I mean to be fair, yeah, bliss of ignorance. Please.
Speaker 2: It's like a four dollar bottle for a second, I
Speaker 2: think we're good. Wow, a whole self place. It's okay,
Speaker 2: but we enjoy it nonetheless, we do.
Speaker 1: While last time you were here, Eves for our previous celebration,
Speaker 1: we talked about female first and kind of our thoughts
Speaker 1: around first in general. I remember going into kind of
Speaker 1: a deeper conversation about like how history is recorded or
Speaker 1: not recorded. So what were you thinking, how shall we
Speaker 1: celebrate this fiftieth Perhaps.
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that's different from where
Speaker 3: we were before, although we were like twenty five and we're.
Speaker 2: In fifty now.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing to think about how
Speaker 3: there are still so many first being created today. You know,
Speaker 3: so often on the show we talk about people who
Speaker 3: were already passed away, So I like to keep it
Speaker 3: that way because you know, people's legacies change in real
Speaker 3: time when they're alive. But that doesn't mean that there
Speaker 3: aren't a lot of cool people who are still doing
Speaker 3: things that are similar to the achievements that a lot
Speaker 3: of the people in the episodes that we've talked about already.
Speaker 3: So there have been achievements that we've talked about in aviation,
Speaker 3: there have been achievements in authorship, Nobel Prizes, all sorts
Speaker 3: of things, and there are still first happening today. So
Speaker 3: that is one thing I think we can reflect on
Speaker 3: and thinking about having fifty people that we've talked about
Speaker 3: in so many different fields and it's still happening.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. That is one of the things when I look
Speaker 1: back at all of these episodes eves, because I was
Speaker 1: just going through some of the people we've covered, and
Speaker 1: I love the wide range of things that you cover
Speaker 1: of like here we've got an author, here, we have
Speaker 1: a musician, here, we have a muralist like aviation, all
Speaker 1: of that stuff, And a lot of times it's true.
Speaker 2: Both that.
Speaker 1: You're learning something new about someone who maybe their history
Speaker 1: was erased, but also on top of that, we see
Speaker 1: so many times that they inspire someone else or something else,
Speaker 1: and then there are these new things that are still happening.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times when on our
Speaker 1: other segments Feminist around the World, we'll come across something
Speaker 1: and people are doing in the environment, for instance, and
Speaker 1: it's new. Oh, it's completely new. So I do think
Speaker 1: that's important to think about. Is history can feel so
Speaker 1: stagnant first, can feel like how can we not have
Speaker 1: done this first already? But there is so much, so
Speaker 1: much more to discover in both the history.
Speaker 2: And the present future. Yes, yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: N Yeah, I think it's it's kind of it can
Speaker 3: be conflicting to think about first a lot of the
Speaker 3: time because we know that there is a lot of
Speaker 3: context around them, but it's still worthy of celebration and
Speaker 3: I think that it's so easy to get wrapped up
Speaker 3: in I mean, this is there's so much advancement these
Speaker 3: days is moving at a super fast clip, and things
Speaker 3: are happening exponentially. But I think it's worthy of taking
Speaker 3: a moment to just pause and reflect and think about
Speaker 3: how because it's often surprising when these first happened in history.
Speaker 3: It's like this was the first person to do this,
Speaker 3: and this was only fifty years ago or one hundred years.
Speaker 2: Ago, which wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 3: So I think taking the time to celebrate is a
Speaker 3: very important thing and something that's also important to think
Speaker 3: about in today's context because things do move so quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of times I wonder the people
Speaker 1: we talk about and people who are doing things now,
Speaker 1: if you know you're a first or even like potentially
Speaker 1: a first. I think there are conversations around that in
Speaker 1: our more modern world where things are moving so quickly,
Speaker 1: and then we have the Internet and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But sometimes when I'm thinking, somebody might have just realized
Speaker 1: a need and just did it. Yeah, And so it's
Speaker 1: interesting to me the idea of someone even now today
Speaker 1: not realize it, Like maybe they're kind of like at
Speaker 1: the forefront, maybe the first. They're like one of the first.
Speaker 1: Because I just so many things we talk about it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you probably didn't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm laughing because I think, I mean, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of a lot more.
Speaker 2: I can't even say more.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, the Internet and social media amplifies
Speaker 3: things a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: But it's funny when you.
Speaker 3: Said a lot of people are probably committing first now
Speaker 3: and don't know it. I think there's probably so much
Speaker 3: room for arrogance in it because there are people who
Speaker 3: do know it and right to talk about it. I
Speaker 3: don't know this is I don't know what I was watching.
Speaker 3: I was in some corner of the Internet, probably distracting
Speaker 3: myself from writing Jojo Yojo Jojo?
Speaker 2: What did you see that club?
Speaker 3: If anybody hasn't seen this clip, it was like a
Speaker 3: clip of Jojo see was saying like I'm the first
Speaker 3: queer person or something like that to like switch up
Speaker 3: my style or really come out as I can't remember
Speaker 3: exactly what JoJo's What's it? But it was a wild
Speaker 3: statement that was completely unfounded. It's like as if judges
Speaker 3: ce what had done no research, had no sort of
Speaker 3: wasn't tapped in, wasn't tuned in, was totally yeah, And
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't look y'all.
Speaker 3: This is funny coming from me because I don't keep
Speaker 3: up with stuff on the internet like this, you know,
Speaker 3: But I mean I think that it's still something that
Speaker 3: you know, we have to I think that that is
Speaker 3: that actually that moment is a PSA to everyone and
Speaker 3: how they should think about first. Right, No, you can't
Speaker 3: just be out here willy nilly claiming things. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: you come from somewhere. The reason that we all are
Speaker 3: doing what we're doing right now, the reason we podcast,
Speaker 3: the reason we have these microphones in front of us,
Speaker 3: like this all comes from somebody being the first person
Speaker 3: to do to do what we do.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you got to check yourself so right before.
Speaker 2: It was probably born from something. But it's kind of
Speaker 2: funny because she has made two kind of eras like that.
Speaker 2: In that also, she took a song that someone else
Speaker 2: had covered and then she got sold the song, so
Speaker 2: and she's like, there's no such thing as stealing and
Speaker 2: by because everybody was accusing her of copying, which you know,
Speaker 2: that's kind of that bigger conversation in general about like
Speaker 2: who was first, who's taking credit for it, and then
Speaker 2: all these things, And she got called out recently for
Speaker 2: that same kind of narrative of like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm definitely the first one to do this. Oh okay fine,
Speaker 2: I'm definitely the first one to make it big, okay fine,
Speaker 2: like all of these things, trying to take credit for it.
Speaker 2: But she was on that same receiving end with that note.
Speaker 3: So you say that, to be fair, there have been
Speaker 3: some first like that that we've talked about. For sure,
Speaker 3: it's been like the first Black American in the fiftieth
Speaker 3: you know, you know, there's been some qualifications on these first.
Speaker 2: Sure, But I think that's that's the other part is
Speaker 2: like there's been qualifications on both sides where that people
Speaker 2: have been haven't been given credit and so having to
Speaker 2: reclaim it in general as were for as like first
Speaker 2: in general. I think it's funny because you know, recently,
Speaker 2: the I think Ramy Josef was on SNL and he
Speaker 2: was doing the I'm the first Egyptian host, I'm the
Speaker 2: first Muslim host, and then they're like no, no, no, man,
Speaker 2: It's like that was the skin. But that is that's
Speaker 2: kind of like the conversation, but we don't really oftentimes,
Speaker 2: and of course that's archived caveat, like, this is what
Speaker 2: we know for now, this is who they are showing
Speaker 2: on record as being the first. But we know as
Speaker 2: things change or things are being discovered or being like
Speaker 2: credited correctly, that things could be different later down the road.
Speaker 2: But for now, with the big caveat of possibly the first,
Speaker 2: we'll say tentatively their own record as the first.
Speaker 1: Well, this is also interesting too, because we do you
Speaker 1: do typically bring people where the part of the complication
Speaker 1: of covering them is what you can find, like resources,
Speaker 1: people who are doing the research, who have been working
Speaker 1: hard to get to the bottom of these these people
Speaker 1: that we're covering and you know, kind of putting into
Speaker 1: context like when things were written and all of that.
Speaker 1: But now you're introducing like the idea of misinformation and
Speaker 1: disinformation on the internet, and people just like making these claims,
Speaker 1: saying these things over and over again, like that's what
Speaker 1: we've seen in our politics right where they're like, know
Speaker 1: what you're seeing in front of your face, it's not true.
Speaker 1: So I wonder like in the future and people looking
Speaker 1: back at this, how big of an issue. Is that
Speaker 1: going to be of like getting pulling out the threads
Speaker 1: of what was reality.
Speaker 2: We actually start researching.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's hard because I do have hang
Speaker 3: ups around including these first because of my lack of knowledge,
Speaker 3: which is a thing that I can't help. It's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know every single thing.
Speaker 2: So wait, laate what what huh? Celebration over.
Speaker 3: I had created this whole mythology around myself, you know,
Speaker 3: and I just ruined it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, but I do think about that when I'm doing
Speaker 3: these first because I'm like, you know, really like especially
Speaker 3: like if it's a person, if they had some sort
Speaker 3: of privilege in their society, right, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: the things I think about a lot of the time.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, this person was a part of a
Speaker 3: wealthier class. This person was an aristocrat, they were a socialite,
Speaker 3: They had a lot of access to resources, they had
Speaker 3: a family who came from money, they were born on
Speaker 3: this side of town, or you know. It's some stories
Speaker 3: like that in these first and I wrestle with covering
Speaker 3: those just because generally, I mean, what the things that
Speaker 3: I like to talk about, I like to often talk
Speaker 3: about people who are in marginalized spaces, especially in the
Speaker 3: context to first, because you can get really tricky because
Speaker 3: you know, when you have access to resources, it's easier
Speaker 3: for you to discover things, it's easier for you to
Speaker 3: take time to discover things, it's easier for you to
Speaker 3: be able to deally, dally and frolic and you know, experiments.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so I think about that when I'm looking
Speaker 3: for first and looking in first stories. But it gets
Speaker 3: really tricky because life isn't so black and white. It's
Speaker 3: not like just because you have privilege in a certain
Speaker 3: realm of your life doesn't mean you have privileges everywhere.
Speaker 3: And we're talking about women in the first place, and
Speaker 3: in all of these societies that we've talked about in
Speaker 3: what society I don't know is privy to that in
Speaker 3: modern modern, slush modern ish times of women being oppressed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3: Think that when it comes up, I still have to
Speaker 3: push past that because these people still had accomplishments and
Speaker 3: achievements and they're still worth talking about, right And fortunately,
Speaker 3: because scholars have done research already, we get to understand
Speaker 3: more of the context of the societies that they were
Speaker 3: living in, so we can still talk about those things
Speaker 3: as we talk about whatever this first achievement was.
Speaker 2: You know, for us when we do like feminists around
Speaker 2: the world, trying to find new and like more lesser
Speaker 2: known people and not people who have are been credited
Speaker 2: or people being credited for things that are just showy.
Speaker 2: I try not to get celebrities, like there's so many
Speaker 2: when you go into the list of like yeah, top
Speaker 2: like these are environmentalists, and it ends up being celebrities
Speaker 2: who've talked about it, and you're like, that's not the
Speaker 2: same thing. Okay, you know, like you out those moments.
Speaker 2: But for me and I know what I'm trying to research,
Speaker 2: it's a whole process of me going through all the
Speaker 2: Google docs and all the Google searches, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: why do they give me the same things? So I
Speaker 2: do ask because I think you're a little more scholarly
Speaker 2: than I am when it comes to how you pick
Speaker 2: and choose who we talk each month, and where do
Speaker 2: you get this information? Tell me how to research. It's
Speaker 2: usually just when I find a thrill.
Speaker 3: Well I won't say usually, but it's when I find
Speaker 3: a thread in something else I'm researching a lot of
Speaker 3: the time, that's how it comes up. So I will
Speaker 3: be researching one thing, say for on theme, and then
Speaker 3: I'll find something through that and I'll file it to
Speaker 3: the side.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a first there, maybe there's not.
Speaker 3: Maybe if I dig for something, I find out that
Speaker 3: it's the first, and maybe there's a first there that
Speaker 3: we don't know about too that because that's not my
Speaker 3: quite job.
Speaker 2: I have other things, you know, that I'm doing.
Speaker 3: But there are scholars who do that kind of deep digging,
Speaker 3: and they're going through archives and they find things like that,
Speaker 3: and then we low and behold, we found out that
Speaker 3: thing about this person, and we've uncovered another first. So
Speaker 3: sometimes that's how it happens.
Speaker 2: I also have a book of African American first at
Speaker 2: my house.
Speaker 3: I just have random books with very specific topics in them,
Speaker 3: and this book I got after we started this first series. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so that's another way that I come across them. And
Speaker 3: then sometimes I'm specifically searching for them. But a lot
Speaker 3: of the time, if you're just there, I only know English,
Speaker 3: so as we've talked about before, that limits me a
Speaker 3: lot and when I'm able to dig deeper into but
Speaker 3: sometimes I'll search for them, but then that search has
Speaker 3: to go deeper and deeper, because those lists can be
Speaker 3: very narrow because we're talking about the same first over
Speaker 3: and over, so that is less of how I'm able
Speaker 3: to find them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure, Like I will find someone who
Speaker 2: did something amazing, but because I don't have enough information,
Speaker 2: or it's very limited information, or it's like a completely
Speaker 2: different language, or I don't have access to it because
Speaker 2: it's from a completely different country. I'm like, it's three
Speaker 2: sentences and that's not enough to fill our second and
Speaker 2: I feel bad because I want to talk about how
Speaker 2: amazing they are. Yeah, but there's just not enough. There's
Speaker 2: not enough.
Speaker 3: And also use books so sometimes, like if I'm traveling,
Speaker 3: I like to do that when I'm traveling because the
Speaker 3: information that's available in other cities and other countries might
Speaker 3: will be different, and I get in the places that
Speaker 3: I'm normally used to being in. I was when I
Speaker 3: was in a museum in Zambia and we haven't I
Speaker 3: had a list of zambiing and like South African people
Speaker 3: who I wanted to talk about and learn more about,
Speaker 3: but there's a language barrier there too, and there's resources
Speaker 3: available to me too that I didn't quite have enough
Speaker 3: on that are still on my list, maybe if one
Speaker 3: day we get to them. But when I was in
Speaker 3: a museum there it was like first woman to do this,
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god. My eyes are
Speaker 3: always peeled for first or just women who seem pioneering
Speaker 3: in somewhere or another. And if I can find a
Speaker 3: way to talk about them, if there is some first
Speaker 3: and all, then I will. But other times I just
Speaker 3: keep those for myself and I get to do my own,
Speaker 3: you know, deep dives.
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, at one point in time, I think
Speaker 2: the beginning of us doing the remote recording, you showed
Speaker 2: us the stack of books that you'd gotten from traveling.
Speaker 2: Oh how far have you gotten to that I started
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not super far, because because I had another stack,
Speaker 3: another stack, so I just kind of pick and choose
Speaker 3: what I like I want to read depending on what
Speaker 3: I'm into, right, Yeah, So I had to put you
Speaker 3: on the spot in the back of my head. And
Speaker 3: there are some there were some dense ones. There was
Speaker 3: like Portuguese history of South Africa from like sixteen hundred
Speaker 3: to seventeen fifty nine, something very specifically. That's not I'm
Speaker 3: not going to get way into historical books from way back, which.
Speaker 2: It's going to it's going to be a minute, all right,
Speaker 2: I will allow it. I guess.
Speaker 1: I do you think that's it's important point to make
Speaker 1: about first, because there are and we talked about this.
Speaker 2: In our life celebration. There are a couple of things
Speaker 2: to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you through the show have helped
Speaker 1: me because there's some that just sound fun, so you're like, Okay, ill,
Speaker 1: this is the first, but you really need to like
Speaker 1: do and to go into the context of it and
Speaker 1: see because sometimes countries just say that because they want
Speaker 1: to claim that they did it, like all kinds of
Speaker 1: things like that. But also if you never go beyond
Speaker 1: like the first, then like for instance, I have to bring.
Speaker 2: It up cicadas. I have to contractually obligated for the cicadas. Actually,
Speaker 2: she's just like one giant office.
Speaker 3: It's true, you to the office when you come out
Speaker 3: of hibernation because the cicada bosses have a schedule.
Speaker 2: Thing that's happening. That's right. I can't hold the form
Speaker 2: for long.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I came across was because
Speaker 1: I was of course looking for an angle about this,
Speaker 1: was that for a long time people have been saying
Speaker 1: the first person to discover these two different types of
Speaker 1: cicadas were these two dudes. Guess what it wasn't but
Speaker 1: there because it's kind of a fun fact. You just
Speaker 1: say it and then you don't go beyond it. But
Speaker 1: actually people have known for a while like you do,
Speaker 1: like even the most minute, like wait a minute, it
Speaker 1: wasn't before I hit it, but.
Speaker 2: The cicadas are named after them.
Speaker 1: But so it's always worth keeping those questions in mind,
Speaker 1: and even that who knows. She again, she was just like,
Speaker 1: look at these cool cicadas. I think there might be
Speaker 1: two different ones.
Speaker 3: And she wasn't thinking about claiming authorship or ownership of
Speaker 3: that thing too, and think you also have to consider
Speaker 3: that as part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because going back to your point there, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of first that I'm like, you got you
Speaker 1: just wanted to do this like very specific thing so
Speaker 1: that people would be like, oh, yes, right to do that.
Speaker 2: Yes, Aguinness World Records. People do the most interesting things
Speaker 2: to be the world record. Hold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was watching the woman who held a plank
Speaker 3: for like four and a half hours, five hours?
Speaker 2: Did you watch four and a half hours?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Okay, I was like that.
Speaker 3: I can't admit, but streamed it. I was just watching,
Speaker 3: probably cleaning and watching.
Speaker 2: It into videos, okay, that one. Like You're a mystery
Speaker 2: to me, so I don't know what will hold your
Speaker 2: attention sometimes, like I'm discovering new things about you every
Speaker 2: time I feel like we get together. I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: above watching four hours. I don't think very impressed. I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: you'd watch just to see if it was happening, how long,
Speaker 2: doing a whole countdown four and encouraging her from far away? Yes,
Speaker 2: from like whatever the streaming Wait, do y'all leave comments
Speaker 2: on videos that you watch? Are y'all commentary? No? No,
Speaker 2: that was I was just wondering, waiting, traumatized by all
Speaker 2: the comments that we get, like even the good ones,
Speaker 2: I'm scared of them. So leaving a comment myself unless
Speaker 2: it's informative, truly informative, then I'm not or something I'm
Speaker 2: very knowledgeable about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a I was just thinking about this recently.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a paranoid Internet person, even though I
Speaker 1: know it doesn't matter and they're spying at me or whatever,
Speaker 1: but I'm very like trying to leave behind as little
Speaker 1: footprints as possible. So as part of that is I
Speaker 1: don't comment. I will say, I mean, get out your
Speaker 1: bingo card. Also with fan fiction, that's the time I
Speaker 1: really feel like I want to comment, but I don't.
Speaker 2: But I do feel the urge because I'm like, love this. Also,
Speaker 2: you're leaving a giant footprint with your fan fiction I know. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's under a pseudonym. Yes, yeah, but again easy
Speaker 2: to find. I haven't tried yet. Give me no dope.
Speaker 2: I do not no comments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a way, I feel bad about it though,
Speaker 3: because I'm like, I'm not engaging, especially if it's like
Speaker 3: the creator that I like, you not gonna get it
Speaker 3: from me, so you're gonna have to get it from
Speaker 3: somebody else.
Speaker 2: No validation from me. Sorry, No, I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: probably because we do so many and you have so
Speaker 2: much on your plate. But do you have not an
Speaker 2: idea or a plan, but like thoughts of what you
Speaker 2: want to do for future episodes with us?
Speaker 3: I do I have a whole bunch of episodes in
Speaker 3: the can that like like ideas for topics.
Speaker 2: I'll say episodes in the can that I would like
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: Okay, I would say in general. As I said earlier,
Speaker 3: I love the synchronized drinking happening.
Speaker 2: You got to plan your moments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of them are ones I have that I'd
Speaker 3: like to do more research on before bringing them to
Speaker 3: the table. I will say that we were talking earlier
Speaker 3: about how sometimes I find these ideas from what I'm
Speaker 3: doing episodes for other things. So I've been for on
Speaker 3: theme obviously on thing we talked about black storytelling, So
Speaker 3: I've been focused on a lot of black.
Speaker 2: People in history lately.
Speaker 3: But I would like to really broaden that to start
Speaker 3: talking about people from more places. I think we need
Speaker 3: more people from the African continent. I think we need
Speaker 3: more people from the Asian continent. I feel like we've
Speaker 3: had some people from Central and South America, so but
Speaker 3: I would still, of course love to keep touching on that.
Speaker 3: And then indigenous history. I think Indigenous American history. We've
Speaker 3: talked talked about Aboriginal history, was Ugaru New Knuckle before,
Speaker 3: but I think that I would love to touch on
Speaker 3: more Indigenous American history because that's super important. And then
Speaker 3: I think that there is one thing that has come
Speaker 3: up for me, but it's I think there's a difference
Speaker 3: between certain firsts that we focus on in the show,
Speaker 3: Like sometimes it's like the first time someone has accomplished
Speaker 3: something or done something. Sometimes it's the first time that
Speaker 3: they've they ended up being the first person to do that,
Speaker 3: and they weren't really trying to go for an accomplishment.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like a milestone per se. So some of
Speaker 3: them that I have on here are some like that.
Speaker 3: So there are a lot of them that I'm interested
Speaker 3: in doing, but I don't know if they will actually
Speaker 3: work out. So I'll tell you some of what these
Speaker 3: first are. I will say that I'm interested in talking
Speaker 3: about the first Black American nun to serve in Georgia.
Speaker 3: Also the first inductee into the International Circus Hall of Fame,
Speaker 3: because we haven't talked about the circus yet, But you know,
Speaker 3: I like things like that, so I'm interested in that one.
Speaker 3: And then there are quite a few that I have
Speaker 3: been I don't know. It's another thing that that comes
Speaker 3: up for me is the focus on Western first is
Speaker 3: what comes up a lot. So it'll be like the
Speaker 3: first person who is not an American, like who is
Speaker 3: of a different nationality to study something or get a
Speaker 3: degree in the United States or get a Western education
Speaker 3: or a Western degree. And while these people are that
Speaker 3: accomplishment is still an interesting one, and it's still one
Speaker 3: that matters for the work that they were doing. Centering
Speaker 3: it around the fact that it's the accomplishment is because
Speaker 3: it was from Western is a little It's definitely problematic.
Speaker 3: So I think, of course we have space, we have
Speaker 3: enough minutes to talk about that in an episode, but
Speaker 3: I'm wary of choosing those in the first place. But
Speaker 3: there are quite a few people I have on the
Speaker 3: list that are like that, and there is a lot
Speaker 3: of are a lot of accomplishments around degrees in other
Speaker 3: countries as well, like the first female medical school graduate
Speaker 3: in the Dominican Republic. We have the founder of the
Speaker 3: first hospital in Montreal, the first female physician to practice
Speaker 3: in Canada, the person who created the first primary school
Speaker 3: for Indonesian girls. So those are some that I'm interested
Speaker 3: in doing. Can't promise if all of those will come
Speaker 3: up in future episodes, right well.
Speaker 2: I will say we do have a pretty I think
Speaker 2: good base in Canada of listeners. We are growing in
Speaker 2: our listeners from South Korea. I'm like, what, very excited
Speaker 2: about that, also nervous why are you nervous because so
Speaker 2: many things as a whole episode in itself. But I
Speaker 2: think we have a pretty good base of listeners from
Speaker 2: Brazil too, because when we had that transition where we
Speaker 2: have our episodes translated into Portuguese, right, that happened, So
Speaker 2: we have a pretty good like international listenership. So yeah,
Speaker 2: in Australia too. We have got a lot of listenership
Speaker 2: in Australia, and I say, low, there could be three,
Speaker 2: thank you to three. I think a few from New Zealand,
Speaker 2: but I think we get more from Australia, like emails
Speaker 2: and such. But so I know that would be amazing.
Speaker 2: I know when people get excited. I think we talked
Speaker 2: about Canadian activists before and we've gotten like some responses,
Speaker 2: though I know people would love to hear all that.
Speaker 2: I'm always fascinated, you know, when it comes to my
Speaker 2: Asian peoples, and yes I say Asian because way back
Speaker 2: when they were all wanted a large territory fighting each other.
Speaker 2: We know this, So finding that history out is always
Speaker 2: fascinating to me. I feel like, yeah, there it is.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not pretty and I'm like, no, just kidding,
Speaker 2: talk about that. But like it is. It feels like
Speaker 2: that representation even though it's so far removed in some
Speaker 2: way for me, especially, so like when we talk about
Speaker 2: these different types of first, I think it is important
Speaker 2: that we do talk about the fact that when it's
Speaker 2: so focused in being like western is the upheld standard,
Speaker 2: which as I've been watching more and more K drama
Speaker 2: and a few of them being good, Yeah, we're doing
Speaker 2: We're making sure we have the medical episodes. But like
Speaker 2: I was kind of surprised and I didn't really think
Speaker 2: about it because we do watch most things in the
Speaker 2: US based in the US, how many uh, English terms
Speaker 2: are used for their medical profession, even in like South Korea,
Speaker 2: And so you'll hear procedures that are said in English
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, okay, because it hasn't been you know,
Speaker 2: it was practiced over here first or and or made
Speaker 2: famous or claimed by people of English origin. So it
Speaker 2: is interesting to hear that, like okay, to have that
Speaker 2: flip and to seeing why they think it is more
Speaker 2: important or because of how it was upheld to be
Speaker 2: that way, because that has been the standard for some
Speaker 2: practices like the medical field. But I find that stuff
Speaker 2: interesting because you do wonder why it is not wonder
Speaker 2: I kind of know. Obviously we all like colonization. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like that's the end all of the conversations. But
Speaker 2: like why it is seen as the bigger price or
Speaker 2: the bigger accomplishments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And the on that note, it's when there
Speaker 3: are first for other people in other countries. It's often
Speaker 3: what we have a record of is often from people
Speaker 3: who are still alive, right, because it's because of what
Speaker 3: is recorded, because of what I have access to, and
Speaker 3: because of the resources people have had in some countries
Speaker 3: that may be still developing.
Speaker 2: So I think that makes it difficult too.
Speaker 3: But then that doesn't mean that I shouldn't cover those things, right,
Speaker 3: you know, It just means that I have to do
Speaker 3: more work to be able to find those things out.
Speaker 2: Not like it's a burden.
Speaker 3: It's just that I need to do my work, like
Speaker 3: I have a job to do, and if I'm invested
Speaker 3: in making sure that I highlight people from all places,
Speaker 3: no matter what we consider development, Obviously, the word developed
Speaker 3: is also a loaded word. I'm just using it for
Speaker 3: lack of a better term right now, because just because
Speaker 3: people don't have freaking what's something we have smart lights
Speaker 3: with colors that you can like yell at and they
Speaker 3: turn on.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that place is it hard to develop
Speaker 2: most of the time. Anyway, you have to connect to
Speaker 2: Everything has to have a special have an app controls.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm sorry these things to.
Speaker 2: Japan and South Korea have it together. In that note,
Speaker 2: I'm sure China does too. But I've seen more like
Speaker 2: products and like the smart homes, they're going to be
Speaker 2: the first to be in trouble when everything goes awrong
Speaker 2: a right, you know.
Speaker 3: But not to say yes, I've seen a smart house
Speaker 3: on Disney Channel.
Speaker 2: I've seen it on TikTok, and I'm like, why do
Speaker 2: you even need this? But maybe want to. Like the
Speaker 2: towel warmers, why do you need this? But I want to? Yeah,
Speaker 2: those towel warmers. Do you have one? No?
Speaker 3: I don't, but they look luxurious. There was in France.
Speaker 3: I think when I was in France that there the.
Speaker 2: Days people are going anyway, all that. Wow, we really appreciate.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, we appreciate modern technological We appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I obviously don't complaining about the technologies more so than no,
Speaker 2: we appreciate that you bring all these people to us,
Speaker 2: because I think half the time I always talk about
Speaker 2: the fact that this should be a movie. This needs
Speaker 2: to be at least a lifetime movie. Somebody not to be.
Speaker 2: To be is not good. I don't think to I
Speaker 2: don't think to be. They don't do well.
Speaker 3: Oh Mike has the good bad horror movies though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they really bad acted oh perfectly. Yeah. Last
Speaker 2: time was kind of like it's like one step up,
Speaker 2: I think, but no, because like I don't know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know about these things, and some of the big
Speaker 2: first and some of the big at least like the
Speaker 2: impact that they had. It may not have been the first,
Speaker 2: but they were the first for a group of people
Speaker 2: who did not have the opportunity, and so it opened
Speaker 2: up to oh, you can do this, so can I
Speaker 2: type of conversations, which is kind of the conversations we've had.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's not necessarily the fact that they may
Speaker 2: have been the very first. Most of the time it
Speaker 2: probably is, and they just weren't credited and we're not
Speaker 2: finding that out, or there's a debate about it, and
Speaker 2: it has to be a debate. But half the time
Speaker 2: it's more of like there is representation to show that
Speaker 2: it is possible that this did happen, and we have
Speaker 2: to credit that as a like a foundation or a
Speaker 2: building block to showing that there needs to be more opportunity.
Speaker 2: What could happen? What if more opportunity was given and
Speaker 2: not just for those who have connections, which is the
Speaker 2: absurd part.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so much wouldn't have happened. And in
Speaker 3: the first that we talked about.
Speaker 2: If those connections weren't there, right.
Speaker 3: Like sometimes it was like, well, I had this teacher
Speaker 3: who was willing to write a recommendation for me, and
Speaker 3: no women were getting into these schools back then, but
Speaker 3: I did because I had this male teacher who could
Speaker 3: do it for me. And so even if those connections
Speaker 3: weren't rooted in like some sort of overt societal privilege,
Speaker 3: it was just like proximal privilege. Right then, it was
Speaker 3: still you know, privilege.
Speaker 2: Right And yeah, that's a conversation like people don't want
Speaker 2: to have it is like privilege does not just mean
Speaker 2: one thing, and people get really upset by that word,
Speaker 2: Like I absolutely had the privilege. I would not have
Speaker 2: this job had it not been for my friends, Like
Speaker 2: i'd Caroline really helped me to get into this world.
Speaker 2: Annie trusted me enough not to make a fool of us,
Speaker 2: to be a part of this world, which has been
Speaker 2: a whole Like I would have never been a part
Speaker 2: of this This would never Podcasting was not a thing
Speaker 2: to me. It was like, what are you doing? Talk
Speaker 2: about things? But I don't understand. Of course, we know
Speaker 2: it's much bigger than that, and in the conversation and
Speaker 2: it's a lot of work, and y'all we but y'all
Speaker 2: put in a lot of work to make a show successful.
Speaker 2: The people who were before us, the hosts that were
Speaker 2: before us, the producers that were before us, they did
Speaker 2: a lot of work. But I also understand had I
Speaker 2: not had these connections, have the privilege of knowing these people,
Speaker 2: I would not be sitting here drinking champagne scoo with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people see privilege as a dirty word, but it's
Speaker 3: often toimes just the reality of our lives. So hey,
Speaker 3: it is And speaking of all these people that we
Speaker 3: talked about, Just because I don't know if people are
Speaker 3: jumping in on this episode and they've never heard another
Speaker 3: episode of Female First before, just know that this segment
Speaker 3: of Female First that we've been doing for many years
Speaker 3: each time we focused on one.
Speaker 2: In the early days, we.
Speaker 3: Had a couple of double episodes, but on one person
Speaker 3: in history who had some sort of first they were
Speaker 3: pioneering in some way. But some of those people, I'll
Speaker 3: give you some examples were Harriet E. Wilson, who was
Speaker 3: the first Black American to publish a novel. We also
Speaker 3: talked about Gabriela Mistral, she was the first Latin American
Speaker 3: author to get a Nobel Prize in literature. We talked
Speaker 3: about Bun Jao, who was considered the first female Chinese historian.
Speaker 3: We talked about Aurora Rays who you mentioned earlier, who
Speaker 3: was the first female muralist in Mexico. And we also
Speaker 3: talked about Wanghai moved to Mathai, who was the first
Speaker 3: African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize. So those
Speaker 3: are just a few of the episodes that we've done
Speaker 3: before on the show, and there.
Speaker 2: Are many others that you can listen to. Yes, and
Speaker 2: we especially, I especially love the ones with the diaries,
Speaker 2: like when you get to see like their perspective and
Speaker 2: you ring those out like yes, I okay.
Speaker 3: So because y'all know, every time we come with diaries
Speaker 3: and quotes and letters that I always talk about how
Speaker 3: much I like them, Like, I just couldn't help myself
Speaker 3: and did an episode on Black Women's Diaries on one theme,
Speaker 3: which is the other podcast that I do that's about
Speaker 3: black storytelling, and yeah, that's I think that's very I'm
Speaker 3: glad you brought that up, Samantha, because it is very
Speaker 3: integral in these first because, as we know, history is
Speaker 3: often written biopressors a lot of the time. That colors
Speaker 3: the perspective that we get to read when we're reading
Speaker 3: people's biographies and essays and articles that have been written
Speaker 3: on them. That's why we like to read scholar's work
Speaker 3: because they often do more in death research. They're digging
Speaker 3: through the archives themselves. But of course they still have
Speaker 3: their own perspectives. But when we get to read somebody's
Speaker 3: own first person narrative, we get to see things from
Speaker 3: their own view. It gives us a different perspective because
Speaker 3: we get to understand how they thought and how they
Speaker 3: felt about what their accomplishments were. We oftentimes see them
Speaker 3: working in real times. We can see the dated these
Speaker 3: entries that are dated, even though sometimes the dates are wrong.
Speaker 3: Sometimes the dates are wrong. Sometimes I get them wrong,
Speaker 3: And I think about that when I'm writing my journal.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I guess you get it. Yeah, things are
Speaker 2: all over the place of my journals.
Speaker 3: But anyway, we get to see it from their perspectives,
Speaker 3: and that offers just a more rich view of that
Speaker 3: person's life and of their accomplishment. So we don't just
Speaker 3: have to think about it as this is a first
Speaker 3: in history, and they did this first, and they achieved this,
Speaker 3: and they were a pioneer in their fields.
Speaker 2: We see a lot.
Speaker 3: More of the nuance and the soft spaces between the
Speaker 3: lines of these hard biographies that we get to read.
Speaker 3: We get to understand how they had struggles and what
Speaker 3: their first were because if we're reading these first, it
Speaker 3: can be like hey, geography, Like we're like, oh, they
Speaker 3: were amazing and doing this thing and they didn't have
Speaker 3: any struggles, or like, you know, they were impervious to
Speaker 3: bad things, all that things that wasn't the case. And
Speaker 3: you can see people work through those things in their
Speaker 3: journal entries and lie and sometimes tell the truth. Yeah,
Speaker 3: all of those things that unreliable narrator does. I do
Speaker 3: love that because it paints like that has come up
Speaker 3: a lot too. Sometimes someone will paint a story of themselves,
Speaker 3: like almost a myth of themselves. But the diary is
Speaker 3: great because in theory, no one's gonna read it right
Speaker 3: in theory, so it is really fascinating to get that
Speaker 3: behind the scenes look. And I have to say, Eves,
Speaker 3: I love going back to Samantha's point. I feel like
Speaker 3: you tell such a great story. So it is like
Speaker 3: not just your dry this is what this person did.
Speaker 2: It's like this is what they.
Speaker 1: Did, but this was their whole life, like they were
Speaker 1: so much more than this one thing that people are
Speaker 1: just saying over and over again, perhaps on the internet.
Speaker 2: So you do a great.
Speaker 1: Job and we love having you. Here's the fifty more episodes.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you wanted to touch on before
Speaker 1: we close out? Eves, No, I think that's it. Cheers
Speaker 1: fifty more. Who knows what we'll get next time.
Speaker 2: I'm excited, Well, the preview, I'm very excited.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, oh gosh, we've learned so much over
Speaker 1: these and also it is fun. I always hesitate to
Speaker 1: do this because I feel like I've improved so much
Speaker 1: over time. But if you go back and listen to
Speaker 1: the first female first we used to do like we
Speaker 1: would have our own first at the end.
Speaker 2: Remember that what happened? Wait what happened? Remember we would
Speaker 2: do at the end.
Speaker 1: It would be like the you would give a first
Speaker 1: your life and I would do one and you would
Speaker 1: do one?
Speaker 2: What that me? Yeah? Remember because you were doing like
Speaker 2: episodes before me. Right, I'm pretty sure you were there
Speaker 2: because we were talking about the Carrio. It wasn't Karacus
Speaker 2: talent shows, like anyway, how do you do that? I
Speaker 2: can't listen. I can't listen to my past self. I
Speaker 2: can't listen to the present self. Half the time we
Speaker 2: have to That was seriously literally every day struggle with all.
Speaker 2: It is so one point speed. I can listen to
Speaker 2: myself that way, kind of like a ChIL.
Speaker 1: Oh my well, listeners, if you would like to go back,
Speaker 1: it is there and it is kind of funny. Well, Eves,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you so much for coming in,
Speaker 1: for being here, for these fifty episodes.
Speaker 2: For everything you do here. Yes, where can the good
Speaker 2: listeners find you?
Speaker 3: Y'all can find me on Instagram at not Apologizing. Y'all
Speaker 3: can also find me on many many more episodes of
Speaker 3: stuff I've never told you doing female first, So listen
Speaker 3: to all of those. You can also find me at
Speaker 3: Eves Jeffcoat dot com. And you can also find me
Speaker 3: on the other podcast called On Theme that's about black
Speaker 3: storytelling and all its forms that I co host with
Speaker 3: Katie Mitchell. And if you want to follow us on
Speaker 3: social media, you can also follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 3: on Theme Show and check us out on our website
Speaker 3: at on Theme dot Show.
Speaker 1: Yes, do all of that, listeners if you have not already, yes,
Speaker 1: well we have.
Speaker 2: Fifty more episodes to look forward to. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, listeners, If you would like to
Speaker 1: contact us, you can our emails Stephanie and mom Stuff
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com, combine us on Twitter at mom
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff on
Speaker 1: Never Told You. We're else on YouTube just saying we
Speaker 1: have a tea public store and we have a book
Speaker 1: you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
Speaker 1: always too, our super producer Christina or executive producer and
Speaker 1: our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You
Speaker 1: Uspriction by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: you can check out the heart radio, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite ships.