Speaker 1: This is let's be clear with Shannon Doherty. I just
Speaker 1: think that we were all young, and there's I don't
Speaker 1: think any of us would act like that now. I
Speaker 1: think all of us would look at the other and say, hey,
Speaker 1: are you okay? Right?
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you don't know to check in when
Speaker 2: you're young. It's just about you and your reaction, your experience, right.
Speaker 2: That is the moment that prompted everyone to be like,
Speaker 2: you know, meeting in the lady's room. No, it was
Speaker 2: like meeting in the dressing rooms. And everyone was like,
Speaker 2: this is it. You know, we're going to call Aaron
Speaker 2: and go into Paul Wagner's office and call him on speaker.
Speaker 2: And that is when they were like, we need It
Speaker 2: was like consensus everyone had. It was all in or nothing.
Speaker 2: And I said I'm not going in the office. But
Speaker 2: I agreed that it wasn't okay, So I did Yeah,
Speaker 2: whether I was physically there or not, I I did
Speaker 2: give in and say, yeah, I'm on board, but I'm
Speaker 2: not going into the office. I don't know in my
Speaker 2: way again me not standing up for what I believe in,
Speaker 2: or I didn't honestly know what was going on at
Speaker 2: that moment.
Speaker 1: But still like, yeah, no.
Speaker 2: Time, I was taking your back by saying I'm not
Speaker 2: going in. I won't be in the office present, I
Speaker 2: won't be on the call with my dad. But you know,
Speaker 2: they were really coming at me like what are you
Speaker 2: in and you have to say yes or no. We
Speaker 2: need everybody, you know, it's like a tally, like you know,
Speaker 2: it's like a trial.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna says, but I know exactly who is
Speaker 1: leading that charge.
Speaker 2: It was a mail, wasn't that was coming at me.
Speaker 2: Mostly it wasn't a female. But Brian and I both
Speaker 2: didn't go.
Speaker 1: No. Brian said he went, but that he specifically said
Speaker 1: to them, I just want to be on the right
Speaker 1: side of history, like I don't agree with this decision.
Speaker 2: He did say that, but I don't remember him. I
Speaker 2: thought we both stayed in our dressing rooms and we said,
Speaker 2: you know, he was very he I was quiet. He
Speaker 2: did stand up to them, which was hard for him.
Speaker 1: Hard.
Speaker 2: He was young and he wanted to fit in with
Speaker 2: the with the guys and the elders, so that was
Speaker 2: a huge thing for him to do. But I remember
Speaker 2: him standing up and saying no, like he doesn't believe
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: I think things would be very different now. And we
Speaker 1: all hang out now at like conventions and we get
Speaker 1: along and well, now a cast can't just go in
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, we want someone gone, and there's
Speaker 1: a thing called hr no. Yeah, yeah, it's much harder.
Speaker 1: And also, again we were so young. I was so young.
Speaker 1: I didn't know to let anybody know what was happening
Speaker 1: to me in my personal life, and I felt I
Speaker 1: was super embarrassed by it, and I felt very like
Speaker 1: cut off from everyone and isolated. So I take full
Speaker 1: responsibility for my part in it, one hundred percent. So
Speaker 1: I get it. I'm going to jump to something else
Speaker 1: real quick because I like jumping and then circling back.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it gives your brain time
Speaker 1: to like process. I was singing about this the other day,
Speaker 1: and it's funny because when I had Jason on, I
Speaker 1: meant to ask him, and then I didn't. I think
Speaker 1: I got scared. But I can ask you. I feel
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing now about pay discrepancy between men
Speaker 1: and women, and even if the female has a lot
Speaker 1: more credits, she's often paid less. She often gets billing
Speaker 1: underneath the man. And so I was really thinking about nine,
Speaker 1: and I was like, this again, where were my credits
Speaker 1: so interesting opposed to Jason?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: Right? Because I did Little House, I did Our House.
Speaker 1: I was girls have Fun. Heather's like, I had a
Speaker 1: very successful career. I don't remember what Jason did prior.
Speaker 1: I think he did a Canadian show.
Speaker 2: Correct, and then Sister Kate, which is what I loved
Speaker 2: him on NBC, a sitcom. I think it was only
Speaker 2: one season, right, with Stephanie Beacham, who ended up playing
Speaker 2: Luke's mom. But yeah, that's what I saw him on.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, dad, he's so hot. He's on
Speaker 2: Peen magazines.
Speaker 1: That was it, right?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: But he got first billing and I got paid more money. Correct,
Speaker 1: It's like wow, how But it was the era, which
Speaker 1: I think it was. That's why it's also so easy
Speaker 1: to blame a blame a woman, and back then that's
Speaker 1: so interesting, like oh, she's difficult, she's this, she's that,
Speaker 1: like you know, your dad's partner. Duke and I went
Speaker 1: round and round around like we. I did not like him,
Speaker 1: he did not like me. I thought he was a bully.
Speaker 1: I felt like he was I felt like he had
Speaker 1: no respect for women at all, and my personal experience
Speaker 1: with him, I felt like he constantly tried to intimidate
Speaker 1: me and you know, say things like your job is
Speaker 1: to say your lines and hit the mark. I don't
Speaker 1: want your opinion.
Speaker 2: See, I don't know this part because growing up he
Speaker 2: was Uncle Duke. You know, I know him since birth. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: uncle Duke oh Man. But yeah, Jason was pretty much discovered.
Speaker 2: You had a huge, ginormous resume that everyone reckoned. That is,
Speaker 2: I never.
Speaker 3: Thought that, right, Yeah, I don't think I didn't give
Speaker 3: a thought at the time. In the nineties, they would
Speaker 3: never write to two hander. They're always going to put
Speaker 3: the man first, right, as opposed to like, how about
Speaker 3: side by side like they do now.
Speaker 1: Like you know, you see a big movie with two
Speaker 1: huge stars female male headlining, and they get billing together.
Speaker 2: Oliverne Shirley did like two females. But if it was
Speaker 2: a man and a woman, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was number one. You were number two.
Speaker 1: Right. So what we're referring to is on a call sheet.
Speaker 1: They give you the call sheet the night before it
Speaker 1: tells you, you know, the scenes that you're doing. The
Speaker 1: next day. Every member of the crew gets it. The
Speaker 1: cast gets. It tells you what scenes you're doing, what
Speaker 1: time your makeup call is, and then what time your
Speaker 1: set call is.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 1: So it's always a big thing of who is number
Speaker 1: one on the call sheet. And I actually had this
Speaker 1: conversation about Charmed because I was always number one on
Speaker 1: the call sheet, but nine O two and zero Jason
Speaker 1: was number one on the call sheet. And again, nothing
Speaker 1: that I even thought of right back then. It's just
Speaker 1: because of the how far we as women have come,
Speaker 1: where we're now standing up for ourselves a lot more
Speaker 1: in our business and I think in other businesses as well,
Speaker 1: of women demanding equal pay and equal attention, recognizing that
Speaker 1: their work is as important as their male counterpart. That
Speaker 1: I really started looking at it and going, how did
Speaker 1: he get paid more money in top billion out me?
Speaker 2: How was that? There was no I hate Brandon clubs
Speaker 2: like Hello, and because the one she instantly got said
Speaker 2: to be he was the quarterback, the quarterback, Whereas I think,
Speaker 2: did my dad coin that?
Speaker 1: Yes, your dad coined it?
Speaker 2: Or were you the fucking cheerleader?
Speaker 1: Oh right?
Speaker 2: I was like that's I was just like your backup answer.
Speaker 1: Whereas probably had I been told I was quarterback, it
Speaker 1: might have changed dynamic on set and made me feel
Speaker 1: like I had to step up to the responsibility a
Speaker 1: little bit more, or everything could had just gone down
Speaker 1: the way that it did and it doesn't matter. You
Speaker 1: can't repeat history. But I found that to be a
Speaker 1: really interesting thought that's been popping into my head a lot,
Speaker 1: where I was like, God, things were so different back then.
Speaker 2: I never thought of that one hundred percent. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: it's so shaming when you're on a call sheet and
Speaker 2: you're not number one. It's just kind of live your
Speaker 2: life based on those numbers, which is it's ridiculous do
Speaker 2: it anymore. It's just I don't know, I was like
Speaker 2: number eight or nine or ten or something, so I
Speaker 2: never was.
Speaker 1: It was I'm going to tell you what you were,
Speaker 1: because it went Ja me, Jenny, No, it was Ginny,
Speaker 1: and then Luke. Right, it was Jenny. Then why a H.
Speaker 2: Promised you Luke was number seven.
Speaker 1: Because he wasn't on the Pilott. Yeah, so it was
Speaker 1: Jason Me, Jenny Iron, Gabrielle right, Brian Luke and then
Speaker 1: you Yeah. Oh so you got pushed to the bottom,
Speaker 1: probably because you were the producer's daughter.
Speaker 2: And I was like, please make me number thirty on
Speaker 2: the cast list. I don't want any preferential treatment. Please
Speaker 2: just push me down.
Speaker 1: I imagine, because you've mentioned it a couple of times,
Speaker 1: that being the boss's daughter, you didn't want preferential treatment.
Speaker 1: You wanted people to like you for who you were,
Speaker 1: or not who your father was, right, and that that
Speaker 1: must have left you without a lot of power in truth,
Speaker 1: because although people would think it gives you power because
Speaker 1: your dad is the boss, it's the opposite, the antithesis,
Speaker 1: because I would imagine that instead you're like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to fight for a raise. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do this. I'm not gonna because my dad is the boss,
Speaker 1: and I don't want it to seem like nepotism or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right I'm a nepo baby, right man. I think that
Speaker 2: depends on the human. Like, I feel like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of people that would be like, yeah, I'm the
Speaker 2: boss's daughter, like cool, and that wasn't me. So I
Speaker 2: just wanted to fit in. I want it to belong.
Speaker 2: I I have this weird thing like I've always known
Speaker 2: somewhere deep down that I was talented, but it just
Speaker 2: got so blurred out in the mix of it because
Speaker 2: it was like I heard so much like well, she
Speaker 2: can't possibly be talented if her dad's the producer, which
Speaker 2: makes absolutely no sense. But it was so ingrained even
Speaker 2: back then, you know, it was just and you know what,
Speaker 2: I got to be honest. A lot of it came
Speaker 2: from when we started. There would be crew members very
Speaker 2: early on like oh, you're nice. I thought I was worried.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, the boss's daughter's on the show,
Speaker 2: you know, just and they in passing. But those like
Speaker 2: stuck to me and I was like, oh man, what
Speaker 2: do I do? You know, I have to be perfect
Speaker 2: and no one can be perfect. That's why I was like,
Speaker 2: I have to be on time, I have to you know,
Speaker 2: be quiet, I have to be sweet, I have to
Speaker 2: agree to anything and everything. When did that sort of
Speaker 2: change for you where you felt like you could tell
Speaker 2: your agent, yeah, you can fight for a raise for me.
Speaker 2: Everybody else is getting raises and I'm not getting reasons
Speaker 2: and I'm being paid as a day player. Like when
Speaker 2: did it change where you finally believed in yourself enough
Speaker 2: or believed in your position on the show enough that
Speaker 2: you would prove in yourself enough where you could fight for.
Speaker 1: All of that.
Speaker 2: This is a tough one.
Speaker 1: It would probably be after you left.
Speaker 2: And why unless you know, you're like, I'll take herself
Speaker 2: because I hid behind you. I hid behind you for
Speaker 2: so many years, Like yeah it was I don't know.
Speaker 2: We were like a unit, we were a team, and
Speaker 2: you fought for yourself, you fought for everyone always, so
Speaker 2: I could just hide behind you and that would be fine,
Speaker 2: and somehow I would get taken care of. You know,
Speaker 2: they would. If I didn't like something I was wearing,
Speaker 2: I whisper it to you and you'd be like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I don't think she should wear this. Because I was
Speaker 2: scared to say anything, right, So I was your little mouthpiece.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, literally, like you took care of me, and
Speaker 2: so when you weren't there, it's like, well here you are,
Speaker 2: because no one else was going to take care of me.
Speaker 1: So I had to. You had to strap on your
Speaker 1: boots and fight for yourself. I mean, that's correct.
Speaker 2: I had to put on my strap on and be like,
Speaker 2: here we go, Phil, Is that what I said? That's
Speaker 2: what I said.
Speaker 1: But that's actually great, I mean not great that I
Speaker 1: got fired, because that was really devastating to me at
Speaker 1: that time, not as devastating as Charmed, to be honest,
Speaker 1: like Charmed rocked my world. Like I still think there's
Speaker 1: part of me that's not recovered from that. But you know,
Speaker 1: I was young after, like I was like in my head,
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck these people, like are you kidding?
Speaker 1: And then I got mall Rats and I was like,
Speaker 1: on the better know like it didn't I didn't, and
Speaker 1: yet that was you know that also did nothing for me.
Speaker 1: Is Kevin Smith and I talked basically killed my movie career.
Speaker 1: But I so it's not good that I got fired,
Speaker 1: but I love that there was a silver lining in it,
Speaker 1: and that the silver lining was that you had to
Speaker 1: had to stand up for yourself, you had to find
Speaker 1: your own voice.
Speaker 2: Yeah I did, And yeah, in hindsight, like I wish
Speaker 2: you had been there, but maybe I would.
Speaker 1: Never write, maybe you never would have found your voice.
Speaker 2: But maybe I would have and maybe it could have
Speaker 2: coexisted and you would have been my champion you always were,
Speaker 2: so maybe we would have risen together instead of someone
Speaker 2: had to go for someone else to right evolve. And
Speaker 2: I don't look at it that way, but I definitely like,
Speaker 2: you know, fight or ful, there was nothing else. You know,
Speaker 2: it was either I stood up for myself or just
Speaker 2: sat there and let everyone else rise after you were gone,
Speaker 2: and me just be number eight again. You know, yeah
Speaker 2: it can well, I guess number seven then right now,
Speaker 2: Luke always kept seven, right, you got moved up.
Speaker 1: So for me, I started really seeing the change in
Speaker 1: you in like season two, and then it just kept
Speaker 1: on progressing because I think observing you, you seemed to
Speaker 1: have found your confidence in your acting and particularly in
Speaker 1: doing comedy correct and you started feeling a lot more free.
Speaker 1: And yes, there was a lot of encouragement around you
Speaker 1: if you can do this, but you know, ultimately you're
Speaker 1: the one who had to figure out how to believe
Speaker 1: in yourself enough. And it was really that's when I
Speaker 1: started noticing it, when you started getting very funny. You
Speaker 1: were doing the stuff that was kind of off the wall,
Speaker 1: and not that I would have been very scared to try, right,
Speaker 1: it seemed like a huge risk at times.
Speaker 2: That means so much hearing you say those words.
Speaker 1: This is gonna sound super weird. But when Amanda Bynes
Speaker 1: was younger, I remember watching her and like she's the
Speaker 1: man that movie right, and her choices, like her facial expressions,
Speaker 1: the choices that she made, so it was like, this
Speaker 1: girl's an outstanding comedy actress. And there's a similarity there
Speaker 1: in the sense of you had no you started having
Speaker 1: no fear about making odd different choices. I started already
Speaker 1: seeing that in you, starting at season two, where you
Speaker 1: just started feeling a little bit more comfortable and more
Speaker 1: settled into who you were, but also being the producer's daughter.
Speaker 1: Did you ever think that people were like sucking up
Speaker 1: to you because of who your dad was. Did you
Speaker 1: ever feel that cast or like anyone, not just cast.
Speaker 2: I mean my whole life, I have felt that my
Speaker 2: dad's executive was like when I was young, I had
Speaker 2: like a lemonade and art stand on his lot at
Speaker 2: twentieth and I was selling artwork and I was like,
Speaker 2: you don't have to buy it, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do. And I was like five or six, and
Speaker 2: it stood out to me. I was like, oh that okay,
Speaker 2: that's what's happening. Oh man, I don't ever want to
Speaker 2: be seen that way. So I was grateful because the cast,
Speaker 2: I feel like, embraced me right away. I never felt
Speaker 2: that with you guys, I mean obviously you and I
Speaker 2: became friends right away, but like the rest and it
Speaker 2: was like, I don't remember when it was. It was
Speaker 2: a defining moment where they were all like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: someone needs to tell Aaron and they were talking about
Speaker 2: like you know, the producer, and someone needs to tell
Speaker 2: them we don't want to do this and da da dah,
Speaker 2: and they did it in front of me and I
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, they're talking. I'm one of the gang.
Speaker 2: You know. They're not like, oh God, don't say you know,
Speaker 2: it's sorry, it's your dad, or you can't listen. So
Speaker 2: that's when I realized. And it was always that way
Speaker 2: like it went on. But comedy wise, I mean a
Speaker 2: lot of that I owe to you because we You
Speaker 2: would always say to them like you wanted to do
Speaker 2: more stuff with me. I didn't have a voice, but
Speaker 2: you wanted. We were friends and we had a connection,
Speaker 2: good chemistry and to do more you know Brendan Donna stuff,
Speaker 2: which is why I went to Paris with you and
Speaker 2: like and that allowed me because you always allowed me
Speaker 2: that freedom. You would laugh out loud at me and
Speaker 2: I'd be like, you would encourage my comedy and my behavior,
Speaker 2: whereas you know with other cast members, I didn't feel
Speaker 2: as comfortable stepping out of your show. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's when I saw the Paris episode that was so
Speaker 2: that was my favorite. Why didn't we get to know
Speaker 2: to Paris?
Speaker 1: So? I know, but but it was still fun. It
Speaker 1: was so fun shooting on that back lot. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: there was because we worked in warehouses that were converted
Speaker 1: into sound stages, so then all of a sudden, you
Speaker 1: and I are working on a real studio lot with
Speaker 1: like a real commissary. It was so much fun. I
Speaker 1: felt like our clothing was elevated because we were in Paris.
Speaker 1: And then when we were at the cafe and we
Speaker 1: both took the bite and this was your comedy that
Speaker 1: came out again where it was like what is it brains?
Speaker 1: And you were just like, you know, spitting it out,
Speaker 1: but in a much more like dramatic fun way. I
Speaker 1: didn't burst out laughing. I couldn't even keep a straight
Speaker 1: face at that moment. But yeah, those were probably my
Speaker 1: favorite favorite favorite episodes to know.
Speaker 2: I found a photo the other day and it's literally
Speaker 2: were taking a photo of you and You're going like
Speaker 2: like that and your food in your mouth, and I'm like, yep,
Speaker 2: that's us.
Speaker 1: That's us.
Speaker 2: So that moment where I spla out brains, that was
Speaker 2: like our natural behavior in real life, like we were
Speaker 2: funny together and you know kind.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, all right, well we have a lot more
Speaker 1: to talk about. We do, yeah, so much more. It's
Speaker 1: just gonna be a lot. So I'm going to say thanks,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to turn it over to your podcast, Misspelling,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have a to be in charge. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to be in charge. I have another hour
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 2: I get to dom you bring it on, all.
Speaker 1: Right, you guys, thanks for listening. Now go listen to Misspelling.