Speaker 1: Don't want to ask your question real good.
Speaker 2: Let's just keep it real straight. Shout with No Chase,
Speaker 2: say I'm gonna get a little bit rougher. I'm here
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: Those who really believe in the American process, all of
Speaker 3: us street shot No Chase with your girl Teslim Figure
Speaker 3: Out on the Black Effect podcast Network.
Speaker 2: At work Tea, everybody, this is Teslim Figure Out.
Speaker 3: Tap in with Teslim Figure Out, a news show. I
Speaker 3: think we're on episode eight. I believe very very excited
Speaker 3: about this new platform. Shout out to all of the
Speaker 3: team that is making this work. A new platform called
Speaker 3: two Way. Shout out to the homie Chris Gotti. Today
Speaker 3: We're gonna do something a little bit different. I am
Speaker 3: also streaming live on my Instagram. Shout out to my
Speaker 3: Instagram family. I see you guys popping up.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: I see my YouTube family popping up. I see my
Speaker 3: Twitter family popping up.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this on.
Speaker 3: Purpose because I have a very very special guest with me,
Speaker 3: doctor Steve Perry, and I want to involve those that
Speaker 3: follow my work and his work because we do, I
Speaker 3: guess you would call it cross pollinate in many of
Speaker 3: the same circles, and so I thought this was a
Speaker 3: really really good conversation Instagram family. As you know, I
Speaker 3: am always looking at your comments, so I will be
Speaker 3: looking down and on the two Way app. Let me
Speaker 3: give a moment to explain what that will be. It
Speaker 3: will be an app very similar to what we do
Speaker 3: on Instagram. So you guys know my comment caucus. I
Speaker 3: see you in the building. I see you, Cliff, he said,
Speaker 3: he is the chairman of the comment Caucus. And so
Speaker 3: I'd like to everybody knows on Instagram that I love
Speaker 3: to bring you in my conversations.
Speaker 2: You are literally my third host.
Speaker 3: So as you watch this, I am going to direct
Speaker 3: you to watch this on two Way on YouTube stream
Speaker 3: streaming right now on the two Way app on YouTube.
Speaker 3: My apology so you is Google and put in two
Speaker 3: way and put in just put in two Way, tesslim
Speaker 3: figure o that app should that YouTube channel should pull up,
Speaker 3: and then you can watch us live.
Speaker 2: But fear not, this.
Speaker 3: Link will be available if you want to actually see
Speaker 3: the video. So if you're on Instagram saying hey I
Speaker 3: can't see the video, let them know comment a caucus chair,
Speaker 3: I see you in the building. Let people know that
Speaker 3: they will be able to watch this video. We're gonna
Speaker 3: have this up this evening, no later than in the morning,
Speaker 3: so let's get straight to it. So, Wow, I was
Speaker 3: going to come on and talk about something else today.
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about abortion. I wanted to talk
Speaker 3: about what's happening in politics. But then we learned of
Speaker 3: the passing of O. J.
Speaker 2: Simpson.
Speaker 3: I immediately got on the phone to talk to doctor
Speaker 3: Steve Perry because this was such an important conversation and
Speaker 3: those of you know, I normally don't just follow whatever's tree,
Speaker 3: you know, whatever conversation is trending. I don't just jump
Speaker 3: on every conversation for the sake of clicks and views.
Speaker 3: But this is so important because it really is was
Speaker 3: a milestone in my life. Would it is This particular
Speaker 3: case in nineteen ninety five when I was in high
Speaker 3: school really made me want to get into the legal profession.
Speaker 3: It also showed me what commentating was all about on
Speaker 3: court TV. You know, I learned that, Wow, you can
Speaker 3: be an attorney and have an opinion without getting in
Speaker 3: trouble and TV all at the same time. My mother
Speaker 3: was the news director's assistant, and we would come home
Speaker 3: and she would record this case every day on VHS.
Speaker 2: For those who don't know what that is, it is
Speaker 2: actually a tape that you used.
Speaker 3: To have to put in a machine that would record.
Speaker 3: And so this was just a pivotal, pivotal time in
Speaker 3: my life. There's probably not a motion, an objection and
Speaker 3: piece of evidence that I don't know about this case.
Speaker 3: I literally watch it even until this day. It is
Speaker 3: something that that just from a legal standpoint, has always
Speaker 3: been fascinating. Man set aside of O. J. Simpson, but
Speaker 3: just the case set aside. I normally, Doctor Perry, I
Speaker 3: don't even like getting in these conversations with people because
Speaker 3: I am so in deep with this case that I
Speaker 3: always feel as if, you know, I'm speaking to somebody
Speaker 3: that may not have watched it the way that I did,
Speaker 3: and I always feel that it's an uneven conversation. But
Speaker 3: you are the man for the conversation for today. We
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of time, so there's only a
Speaker 3: few things that we can unpack with this case. First,
Speaker 3: let me introduce to you doctor Steve Perry, an educator,
Speaker 3: best selling author, founder of founder and head of schools
Speaker 3: Capital Preparatory Schools, Arthur of Man Up, Nobody's Coming to
Speaker 3: Save Us? And push has come to shove. You've seen
Speaker 3: him on many platforms much larger than mine.
Speaker 2: So I am humbled in honored.
Speaker 3: He's shaking his head, humbled in honor to have him
Speaker 3: joined the little old me Teslam fiery on, tap it
Speaker 3: with tens he Hello, doctor Perry.
Speaker 4: Says, I am so humbled to be part of your great,
Speaker 4: big platform because what you do is tackle topics that
Speaker 4: other folks are either afraid to or incapable of offering
Speaker 4: up the nuances to engage in. So this is a
Speaker 4: conversation I could not be happier to have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a blessing to have because you know, we
Speaker 3: unpacked things all the time, you know, and the listeners
Speaker 3: don't notice, but.
Speaker 4: We unpack all the time, the show between the shows,
Speaker 4: the show between the.
Speaker 3: Show, so they're really just going to be listening to
Speaker 3: a conversation that we would just typically have cameras off
Speaker 3: and just you know, just you and I just really
Speaker 3: talking about So we heard Ojay Sinson passed away from
Speaker 3: cancer to age of seventy six. A lot of people
Speaker 3: wasn't awhere. You know that he was suffering with cast
Speaker 3: so a lot of people do keep that private. My
Speaker 3: mother did.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 3: It's not something that people broadcast. I don't know how
Speaker 3: many people knew it or not. Of course, there's so
Speaker 3: many conspiracy theories that are out today. Of course there
Speaker 3: always is, UH, there's always going to be somebody on
Speaker 3: the Internet that comes up with their own theory. But
Speaker 3: I really wanted to jump in due to limited time,
Speaker 3: and thank you for taking out your in time today.
Speaker 3: There's so many different layers to this, so many different
Speaker 3: we can peel this onion all day.
Speaker 2: I really want to go back to nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3: Five, and now I know there's gonna be people who
Speaker 3: will say, you know, focus on the good things, focus
Speaker 3: on the NFL and eleven seasons, Focus on the Heisman Trophy,
Speaker 3: Focus on how he was regarded as one of the
Speaker 3: greatest running backs of all time. I know people say,
Speaker 3: don't talk about the negative, don't talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: all of the negative things. The reality of it is,
Speaker 3: when you are a public person, all of those things
Speaker 3: will be talked about.
Speaker 2: Even if you're not a public person.
Speaker 3: You go just to your cousin's funeral, people are gonna talk.
Speaker 3: They're gonna talk about the memories that that person left.
Speaker 3: And one of the most impactful memories that people have
Speaker 3: of O. J. Simpson, Many people who were introduced to O. J. Simpson,
Speaker 3: at least speaking for myself in high school, because when
Speaker 3: he was in his prime.
Speaker 2: I wasn't old enough to know who he was or
Speaker 2: you know, people may be familiar.
Speaker 3: He did one on good Yeah, went on good times
Speaker 3: and did hurts and all that.
Speaker 2: But I was a little girl. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: So my really first introduction of learning who OJ Simpson
Speaker 3: was and learning about him and everything about him was
Speaker 3: through the O. J. Simpson trial because I was young,
Speaker 3: so I learned everything. And one of the things in
Speaker 3: the trial is presenting that person's life from beginning to end.
Speaker 2: So I want to go back to that time.
Speaker 3: Where we were as a culture and where we are now,
Speaker 3: and if we can, if you will compare the two,
Speaker 3: because a lot has changed over nineteen ninety five versus
Speaker 3: now at that time, and then I'm going to flip
Speaker 3: it to you. At that time, there was a Black
Speaker 3: America many said that he did not do it. There
Speaker 3: was also Black America that said, if he did, let's
Speaker 3: charge it to the game. What I have noticed is
Speaker 3: in this generation, many have basically said I remember there
Speaker 3: was a time where you just could not get into
Speaker 3: a discussion on oda sins.
Speaker 2: What I said, there's no way he didn't do it,
Speaker 2: didn't do it.
Speaker 3: But now as more evidence has come out, now that
Speaker 3: the book he wrote it, if I did it has
Speaker 3: come out, Now that even there was a mean today
Speaker 3: that they were sharing what he was mocking stabbing somebody.
Speaker 3: Now that more and more has come out, there is
Speaker 3: a sector of Black America that now was saying, you
Speaker 3: know what, it might be some truth to it, but
Speaker 3: we're still going to charge it to the game. So
Speaker 3: take us back, doctor Perry, from your perspective, where were
Speaker 3: we in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 1: Let's see you put step back. Patrick Mahomes is arguably
Speaker 1: the most celebrated football player of his generation, and even
Speaker 1: he wasn't isn't what oj Simpson was as an actlete.
Speaker 1: For those of us who grew up in the seventies,
Speaker 1: we watched the Juice do the impossible two thousand yards
Speaker 1: in the season, things that were not even seen, and
Speaker 1: he was universally regarded as the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1: So for many of us who grew up during the seventies,
Speaker 1: he was for us a foray into great team Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali were seen as not just athletes, but individuals who
Speaker 1: transcended times. Jim Brown along those same lines. These were
Speaker 1: men who are black, but who transcended their role as
Speaker 1: an athlete and even made their way into what we
Speaker 1: now know is mainstream. During that time, we didn't have
Speaker 1: access to somebody's every move. We could only live through
Speaker 1: the law that was created through the media. At that
Speaker 1: time that many of us had three networks ABC, NBC A, CBS,
Speaker 1: and there were not twenty four hours worth of news,
Speaker 1: so we had limited access. And so when we got access,
Speaker 1: it was through the way in which that person was portrayed,
Speaker 1: and in his case, he was portrayed as a hero.
Speaker 1: He was portrayed as an absolute hero. Put that on
Speaker 1: the shelf for a moment. Nineteen ninety one, just a
Speaker 1: couple of years before, we still did not have much
Speaker 1: access to the world at large, and there were rumors
Speaker 1: and laws and experiences of African Americans in this country
Speaker 1: of being mistreated by the police, mistreated by the justice system.
Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety one, we saw for the first
Speaker 1: time in mass in American history, a black man in
Speaker 1: the Rodney King being beaten to what appeared to be
Speaker 1: within eaches of his death.
Speaker 3: And now you mean just to put a pin right there,
Speaker 3: meaning we saw what we already knew. I just want
Speaker 3: to put because many of us saw it, but it
Speaker 3: confirmed that we.
Speaker 1: Know correct mass but as a country, yes, for the
Speaker 1: first time we all saw. I remember being in college
Speaker 1: during that time, and I remember white kids coming to
Speaker 1: my dorm room and they were stunned, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: can you believe it?
Speaker 4: Now? Yeah, I can believe it.
Speaker 1: The only thing I can't believe is that we finally caught.
Speaker 4: It on video.
Speaker 2: We're finally caught it.
Speaker 1: And so we as many of us, as like the
Speaker 1: American at the time, especially young black people as I was,
Speaker 1: we just knew got these mugs. This time, we finally
Speaker 1: got they ass this time. Watch and see what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Watching and see what's gonna happen now, watching, See what
Speaker 1: all these people in California you're gonna do. Watch and
Speaker 1: see where you have the video of this man being
Speaker 1: beaten to with inter and of his life. All of
Speaker 1: them get on, every single one of them, get off
Speaker 1: the streets, turn into riots. People were bold, they say
Speaker 1: what they got to say, and then shortly on the
Speaker 1: heels of that, our hero is accused of killing a
Speaker 1: white woman. That's the context of the beginning of the O. J.
Speaker 1: Simpson trial. It's not probable that a man of his
Speaker 1: station in life would do something like that. Many of
Speaker 1: us thought, who would even think of earning their wife?
Speaker 1: Who would lose all that O. J. Simpson happen? Who
Speaker 1: would doing so That's how we start this conversation. The
Speaker 1: conversation starts with what is today's Patrick Mahomes, what is
Speaker 1: the nineties Michael Jordan, a man who transcended his sport,
Speaker 1: was an international phenomenon, being accused of the most gruesome
Speaker 1: act of all, killing the wife that he had and
Speaker 1: the mother of his children in cold, gruesome blood. That's
Speaker 1: the foundation of the council.
Speaker 3: Now, the next layer to that would be, I want
Speaker 3: you to take us back to the obvious on It
Speaker 3: wasn't just a wife and a mother, it was a
Speaker 3: white woman.
Speaker 2: Now again, at that.
Speaker 3: Time, I was in high school and I was not
Speaker 3: the lens that I was looking through. Well, let me
Speaker 3: be clearing my mother because she was a news director's assistant,
Speaker 3: because she was in the media. My first professional meeting
Speaker 3: was in ABJ National Association Black Journey. My mother was
Speaker 3: very mindful of rest in peace of my mother also
Speaker 3: passed away with cancer, but very mindful of images, very
Speaker 3: mindful of For example, I tell people all the time,
Speaker 3: I couldn't watch Sanford and Son. She didn't like the
Speaker 3: fact that a black man was calling his son a dummy.
Speaker 3: What many people find that show hilarious, great comedy, she
Speaker 3: didn't like it. I could not watch a Good Time.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: I could not watch Good Times.
Speaker 3: We know that we're going to be unpacking that because
Speaker 3: we know that's about to come out on Netflix, and
Speaker 3: that has sparked a lot of conversation. I'm sure you
Speaker 3: and I unpacked that. But what's so interesting, just I
Speaker 3: just want to put a pin with that, even with
Speaker 3: Good Times now, how they're seeing it in almost a
Speaker 3: parody form, we don't know yet what that looks like.
Speaker 2: That's how my mother saw it then.
Speaker 3: So when I see people applaud it and say, oh man,
Speaker 3: Good Times one of the best shows ever in history.
Speaker 3: Yes it was a black father, yes it was a
Speaker 3: black mother, all of those things. But my mother had
Speaker 3: the same problem with it. That the had with it
Speaker 3: behind the scenes. So although I did sneak to watch
Speaker 3: those shows, she was very much against itid but she
Speaker 3: was very much in supported to be watching George Jefferson.
Speaker 3: She was proud of the fact that he was an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: She was proud of moving on up. She wanted to know, well,
Speaker 3: when are they gonna ever get out the ghetto on
Speaker 3: good times? When is it ever gonna be? You know,
Speaker 3: when do we ever get to the other side. I'm
Speaker 3: sitting out here to say, doctor Parr, because I'm trying
Speaker 3: to set the scene going back to man.
Speaker 2: I wish my mother was alive so we could talk
Speaker 2: about this. Many reasons I wish she was alive, but this.
Speaker 3: Is one, but I'm trying to paint a picture for
Speaker 3: the listeners on what that meant. When I would come
Speaker 3: in from school and we would pop in the tape
Speaker 3: that had a yellow piece of time, I mean, even
Speaker 3: be we have either a white or yellow sticker on it,
Speaker 3: I can see it's so clear. And we would watch
Speaker 3: this and unpack this because my mother wanted me to
Speaker 3: know what was happening in the media, what we're seeing
Speaker 3: the media, which we see with the infamous Johnny Cochrane.
Speaker 3: It was surreal to me to be standing next to
Speaker 3: the Carl Douglas just a couple of years ago at
Speaker 3: a press at one of his press.
Speaker 2: Conferences with Attorney care Carl Douglas says, yes, So, Carl Douglas.
Speaker 3: For those who are not familiar with this case, Carl
Speaker 3: Douglas was one of the members of the Dream Team,
Speaker 3: the infamous Dream Team that Johnny Cochrane put together. Well
Speaker 3: that we can say that he I don't want to
Speaker 3: say put together because OJ selected his team, but Johnny
Speaker 3: Cochrane ended up leading that team after the Kardashian his
Speaker 3: his friend at the time, was not leading the team
Speaker 3: in the direction that OJ believed it need to go
Speaker 3: in and Johnny Cochran came in and changed it. And guys,
Speaker 3: if you're not for me with the Oda sis in case,
Speaker 3: it is so many different movies, documentaries, things, but I
Speaker 3: encourage you to watch them.
Speaker 2: All and paler together and then.
Speaker 3: Go on YouTube and watch the actual trial. They still
Speaker 3: have the trial available every single day of YouTube. So
Speaker 3: Carl Douglass was a member of the Dream Team. So
Speaker 3: for me to be standing next to him two years
Speaker 3: ago in one of his cases, it was just surreal.
Speaker 3: I'm taking you back to that Doctor Perry, because when
Speaker 3: I was watching this ian through the lens of a teenager,
Speaker 3: I was looking at all of those different things.
Speaker 2: And we knew.
Speaker 3: What I knew about interracial relationships at the time is
Speaker 3: not what I know now.
Speaker 2: So it was not just.
Speaker 3: But my mother put me up on game that it
Speaker 3: was not just about a man killing his wife, but
Speaker 3: it was a white wife.
Speaker 2: And so then the conversation started happening.
Speaker 3: People are even saying in the comments, now, if he
Speaker 3: killed his black wife, it would have never been a thing.
Speaker 2: You said, you were in grad school at the time.
Speaker 3: What was the conversation about it being a white woman
Speaker 3: at the time, and why did that make a difference?
Speaker 3: And why did we give a pass? Because let's be
Speaker 3: honest about it. O. J. Simpson to many abandoned his community.
Speaker 3: Johnny Cochrane had to go in and blackify without a
Speaker 3: new word that I just made up today his house
Speaker 3: so that when the jurors came by, he was a
Speaker 3: He took all the white pictures off the wall and
Speaker 3: put black pictures on the wall.
Speaker 2: So take us back to what how were you guys
Speaker 2: looking at it?
Speaker 4: About his I was, Yeah, so I was in social
Speaker 4: work school, which.
Speaker 5: Was overwhelmingly white and female. I was I am the
Speaker 5: only African American male who graduated from my class in
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 4: So the conversations were lopside, to say the least. And
Speaker 4: it wasn't just that she was white. She was and
Speaker 4: you'll understand the term that she was pretty. She was
Speaker 4: a pretty white woman, blond and blonde in all that matters.
Speaker 4: It does matter. And during that time, one of the
Speaker 4: things that was happening in the media, which we referred
Speaker 4: to back then, which is mostly magazines, is they would
Speaker 4: actually darken his picture to create a more brooding aesthetic.
Speaker 4: So they would go they would put filters on his
Speaker 4: picture on the cover of Newsweek and other magazines where
Speaker 4: they darkened his esthetic. Now keep in mind, during the
Speaker 4: same time, during the same time period, Mike Tyson was
Speaker 4: already in prison for rape. So you have our heroes
Speaker 4: and again, by parallel, you'd be looking at and I
Speaker 4: don't mean to make the parallel, cause I don't want
Speaker 4: to put this on this brother, but the likes of
Speaker 4: a Pat mahomes the likes of a Lebron James, you know,
Speaker 4: the lights on the money Madeweather, like, these cats were
Speaker 4: at the top of their game in terms of as athletes,
Speaker 4: as entertainers, and as wealthy people. These were the same
Speaker 4: things that were happening during that time. So we were
Speaker 4: now looking at a global phenomena, an actor who was
Speaker 4: being accused of killing a pretty white woman. And so
Speaker 4: the presentation of it was the the most taboo of taboo.
Speaker 4: Whos we ain't talking about just whistling and a white
Speaker 4: woman that em Mattil was accused of, We're talking about
Speaker 4: full fledged murder. So for many of us it was like, oh,
Speaker 4: if he is accused of killing a white woman to
Speaker 4: rap you know, so sad, too bad, brother, you about
Speaker 4: to get a death penalty, two three in a row.
Speaker 4: You gonna die. And there was no notion that there
Speaker 4: was such a thing as an African American who had
Speaker 4: the financial wherewithal to be able to hire attorneys of
Speaker 4: the caliber that he was able to every single way
Speaker 4: that you know, a social work school in Philadelphia at
Speaker 4: the time, my knowledge of attorneys was public offenders or
Speaker 4: whoever you knew who knew somebody would get you in there. Basically,
Speaker 4: you were still going to be guilty, but you would
Speaker 4: you wouldn't go to prison for the entire rest of
Speaker 4: your life. And you rolled on somebody, you might be
Speaker 4: able to see the light of day at some point.
Speaker 4: So this notion that you could even conceive that you
Speaker 4: might get off, that was something that was inconceivable. So
Speaker 4: I remember where I was the day that he was
Speaker 4: found not guilty. I watched the case myself. During that time,
Speaker 4: I was doing an internship for an African American man
Speaker 4: was pretty wealthy, and during that time I was doing
Speaker 4: an internship and in his office they had you know,
Speaker 4: the CNN. We were watching it, and I remember we
Speaker 4: were all sitting in the conference room and I remember thinking,
Speaker 4: OJ going to jail, OJ get a death sentence, OJ
Speaker 4: going to die. And then I remember seeing the verdict
Speaker 4: and I remember that CNN if it was what because
Speaker 4: I was watching seeing it in the time. I remember
Speaker 4: they went to I think it was Howard University, and
Speaker 4: people jumped up like we had just won the election
Speaker 4: of President Obama. They all there was just like this, hooray.
Speaker 4: And I'll be honest with you, I grew up watching
Speaker 4: someone be domestic I grew up in a domestic violence
Speaker 4: Ashold for the time that they were together, and I
Speaker 4: remember knowing what it's like to watch my mother under
Speaker 4: those conditions, and as a social worker, I had seen
Speaker 4: it enough time that I had seen it, and as
Speaker 4: a black man, there was a part of me that thought,
Speaker 4: did we just get away with this? We didn't get
Speaker 4: away with the Ridy King thing, didn't get away with
Speaker 4: the Mike Tyson thing. Did we just get away with this?
Speaker 4: Or a spell? Even as somebody was going with a
Speaker 4: master's on social work, the complexity of the emotions were
Speaker 4: like wow. I never thought for a second, and to
Speaker 4: this day I never thought that he was innocent.
Speaker 3: I didn't still, you know, there was a time you
Speaker 3: would never say that people would just you know, because people, truly.
Speaker 3: Johnny Cochrane had a way and this is what I
Speaker 3: actually teach a class on the how to win in
Speaker 3: the court of public opinion. He created such an environment
Speaker 3: that people actually believed that ol J. Simpson and people
Speaker 3: can are still debating this to this day, that people
Speaker 3: believe that it's no way that one man could do this,
Speaker 3: even though they showed how it's I don't people who
Speaker 3: have stabbed multiple people at that time, or even though
Speaker 3: they shown and even though the blood was everywhere, even
Speaker 3: though the DNA was everywhere, even though you know, his
Speaker 3: hand was cut, even though Johnny Cochran did such a
Speaker 3: masterful job of his job.
Speaker 2: So let's just pause there for a moment.
Speaker 3: Let's really deal with what people were celebrating, the majority
Speaker 3: of what black people were celebrating. It was not a
Speaker 3: matter of Now, there were people who believed he didn't
Speaker 3: do it, but there was not a matter of if
Speaker 3: he did it or didn't do it. It was what
Speaker 3: you said, did he actually get away with this? And
Speaker 3: did a black man an attorney make that happen? Was
Speaker 3: the system finally beat? And what I think is interesting
Speaker 3: is how O jay sentence because even at that time
Speaker 3: he went to the Black church, like Johnny Carran really
Speaker 3: did it, like he brought him to the Black church.
Speaker 2: He did all.
Speaker 3: Imagine if that happens now. I'll just use an example
Speaker 3: with Candice Owns. A couple of weeks ago, everybody kept
Speaker 3: asking my pen on that you know somebody who people said,
Speaker 3: you know, it's not for us who mocked the murder
Speaker 3: of George Floyd. Mocked the murder of George Floyd. And
Speaker 3: she's pretty much going on at Black Church tour, and
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the majority of people saying no, no, no,
Speaker 3: you can't come back over here. And then there's some
Speaker 3: people say, well, you know, she kind of got a point.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of this O. J. Simpson.
Speaker 3: He was embraced, and I want you to talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about that. Do you think some of the
Speaker 3: embracement was the the love, because you know, I did
Speaker 3: bear me when I get my words. I did a
Speaker 3: podcast on this, on the love that we have, the
Speaker 3: forgiving love that we have, the come on back home.
Speaker 3: The prodigal son was some of that, you know, were
Speaker 3: hurt that you left us, because oh, they did leave
Speaker 3: the black community.
Speaker 2: Let's just be clear.
Speaker 3: It wasn't even just about maryoring a black a white woman.
Speaker 3: It was about he disconnected himself. And it made for
Speaker 3: me to say that he was not black. He's ojay,
Speaker 3: go ahead, He's not the one.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna answer that question a second. There are many
Speaker 4: black people who we see in media today who if
Speaker 4: you check the last ten people they've spoken to, if
Speaker 4: you check the last ten people they have text, you text,
Speaker 4: the last ten people they went and hung out with,
Speaker 4: then none of them are black. They're hired by media
Speaker 4: to come on and talk from the perspective of being
Speaker 4: African American, but many of them are on MSNBC and CNN.
Speaker 4: They don't have black friends, they don't have black partners,
Speaker 4: they don't live in the black community at all, not
Speaker 4: at all. They can reflect on having grown up in
Speaker 4: the whatever community. But if you look, they went to
Speaker 4: our lady of this or that, or prep for this
Speaker 4: or that, and they went to this elite school, and
Speaker 4: so you'll hear them. Those people spend this significant amount
Speaker 4: of their time in the black community. Here the distinction
Speaker 4: between them and of the black people. But many white
Speaker 4: people don't know the difference. They just see two black people.
Speaker 4: They don't know that there's a significant, not nuanced difference
Speaker 4: between these people who've only gone to private white schools
Speaker 4: and then to an elite college, but who were still
Speaker 4: phoenotypically black, and these people who are phoenosipically black, but
Speaker 4: who spend the lion's share of their time engaging with
Speaker 4: the African Americans experience writ large, not just the ink
Speaker 4: Well experience, not to Jack and Jill experience, but the
Speaker 4: full experience. I don't think that people, and I'll start
Speaker 4: with me. We the people I was talking to you
Speaker 4: during that time, we weren't celebrating OJ Simpson. I was
Speaker 4: never expecting OJ to come back. I accepted that he
Speaker 4: was gone. I except that he was gone. What I
Speaker 4: as a black man who was just getting to a
Speaker 4: place where for the first time in my life, I
Speaker 4: thought that I might be an intellectual. Like I remember
Speaker 4: growing up thinking I was stupid. I stayed back in
Speaker 4: the third grade. I was our medio classes. I just
Speaker 4: thought I was stupid. I knew I struggled to read.
Speaker 4: I didn't know why I thought I was stupid, Like
Speaker 4: I thought all the black boys like we were just
Speaker 4: not smart. But we were ones got in most trouble.
Speaker 4: School wasn't for us. So I remember coming into what
Speaker 4: I believed to be my intellectual own during that time,
Speaker 4: and I remember somebody calling me intellectually one time. I
Speaker 4: thought they were trying to clown me, like somebody trying
Speaker 4: to call me white, Like yo, what you just called me?
Speaker 4: So to see Johnny Cochran, I was like.
Speaker 1: That that.
Speaker 4: During that same time, you have to realize Cornell West
Speaker 4: was starting to do this speaking engagements. During that same time,
Speaker 4: Mike Dyson was doctor Mike Dyson was out there. So
Speaker 4: you got West Dyson and and and and and Cochrane
Speaker 4: who people like me were starting to read what Garrick
Speaker 4: Bell were reading face at the bottom of the well,
Speaker 4: like we're reading this stuff and we're starting to stuff.
Speaker 4: This is I need you to understand. It's the same
Speaker 4: time as the Million Man March. So the Million Man
Speaker 4: March is happening, right, So you got the Me and
Speaker 4: Man March coming to coming to be. So I'm in
Speaker 4: Philly during this time and I'm going to see Fara
Speaker 4: con and he's doing organizing. So we got black men
Speaker 4: coming together. We got uh Derek Bella we're reading, We
Speaker 4: got uh uh kawanzi be Drinjufu, We got all these
Speaker 4: people like we're starting to be like, okay, so you
Speaker 4: can be black and you can smart about o J. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Just to put a pin there and got thinking to
Speaker 3: join us just quickly. I'm this is doctor Steve Perry.
Speaker 3: We got a couple of hundred on Instagram, five hundred
Speaker 3: on YouTube. Make sure you tap in, do a quick
Speaker 3: search and put in two way with teslam figure oh
Speaker 3: god on YouTube, and you want to see this line,
Speaker 3: don't forget your thought down pair. I just want to
Speaker 3: make sure I'm putting a pin in that on what
Speaker 3: you're actually saying.
Speaker 2: For the first time, you got.
Speaker 3: To see the black intellectual be black, present black, act black,
Speaker 3: talk black, and be smart.
Speaker 4: During the same time. During that time, black hip hop
Speaker 4: was about black medallion's no goal. During that time, self
Speaker 4: destruction was what we were talking about. That was so
Speaker 4: there was a there was a black consciousness occurring simultaneous
Speaker 4: to literally saying burn Hollywood, burn yes.
Speaker 3: And if the police so let's be clear, so they're
Speaker 3: all will sign, will take that.
Speaker 2: You had that goal on that, but you had nw ain't.
Speaker 3: Who I subscribe to where you had Because again we're
Speaker 3: coming out of Rodney Key, you know, shout out to Spot.
Speaker 3: I talked about him all the time. I'm my very
Speaker 3: best friends.
Speaker 2: He was a part of the Blood and Crypt treaty.
Speaker 3: So now you're coming out of you're seeing what I
Speaker 3: call the homies were the black militia, those on the ground,
Speaker 3: those same men that went to the Mallie Man March.
Speaker 2: The homies saying no, yes, yes, he's treaties, yes, wasn't.
Speaker 4: Crips in certain sets were coming together and say, yo,
Speaker 4: what are we doing. So there was a black consciousness
Speaker 4: that was taking shape and it was running alongside when
Speaker 4: we referred to as gangster rap, but it was gangster
Speaker 4: rapping because it was people who were saying, we are
Speaker 4: tired of you having your boot on our neck. We're
Speaker 4: tired of y'all beating us and getting away with a
Speaker 4: wee about that one of us is gonna get it through.
Speaker 4: It's either the thugs and we're gonna get out, or
Speaker 4: it's gonna be the intellection. But one of us gonna
Speaker 4: make it to the top and we ain't gonna make
Speaker 4: it being polite. That was what this was about. So
Speaker 4: you have all these things happening at the same time.
Speaker 4: I don't ever think that there were any capsule like
Speaker 4: come on back, OJ, trying a hell OJ. That was
Speaker 4: not even what I was thinking when I was connected
Speaker 4: to and what the brothers who we would have these sets,
Speaker 4: because we would have these sets at my cribbin and
Speaker 4: Philly brothers would sit around they like I mean brothers,
Speaker 4: like brothers, brothers even like real dudes, like I don't
Speaker 4: want to go through you understand what I'm saying. Like
Speaker 4: those dudes were sitting around and were debating over over
Speaker 4: what topics it was. This is the time when even
Speaker 4: the roots, the group, the Roots, this is when they
Speaker 4: were in Philly and they were coming up like that
Speaker 4: was just black consciousness. Black thought in that, like this
Speaker 4: is who we were. And so at the same time
Speaker 4: as we're going to the million man March planning committees,
Speaker 4: at the same time as we've got black men coming
Speaker 4: to campus to speak to us on white campuses, at
Speaker 4: the same time as we got Rodney King being his
Speaker 4: head split literally open, we have OJ comes in. So OJ,
Speaker 4: for many of us himself was not who we were
Speaker 4: pulling for. I never thought for a second that the
Speaker 4: cat was in it, and it just didn't seem like
Speaker 4: it made sense. But for me, it felt like, if
Speaker 4: we're gonna play this thing, let's play it all the
Speaker 4: way out. They just got to put reasonable doubt in here,
Speaker 4: right m.
Speaker 2: Hm showed for us.
Speaker 4: I never felt good about OJ getting off. I said
Speaker 4: it then and I say it now. I never felt
Speaker 4: good about that.
Speaker 2: Why do you think people did why?
Speaker 3: Why do you think there were people that just did
Speaker 3: not believe that it was possible that one person could.
Speaker 2: Decapitate two people. And again, if.
Speaker 3: People actually go back and watch the trial and actually
Speaker 3: look at the evidence, which you know nobody likes evidence
Speaker 3: who wants to read. But if you actually go back
Speaker 3: and look at how Ron Goldman was, how Nicole's head
Speaker 3: was basically chopped off, there was no fighting two people
Speaker 3: at the same time, and then there was the struggle
Speaker 3: with that's correct correct? So why do you think because
Speaker 3: even now, even looking in the comments, you know, resting
Speaker 3: piece of oj OJ, I wonder if these people are
Speaker 3: really connected to the man oj are still connected to.
Speaker 4: I wasn't charged even then, And let me be clear,
Speaker 4: let me not attempt to present myself as someone who
Speaker 4: was deeply thinking during that time. I want to make
Speaker 4: sure that I'm clear. What I don't want to do
Speaker 4: is into the conversation pious I'm saying, I know where
Speaker 4: I was sitting in mister Wade's conference room when it happened. Yes,
Speaker 4: I know, I know, feeling a duplicitousness. I watched the
Speaker 4: kids down at Howard say what they were saying, and
Speaker 4: I watched them celebrate, and I felt badly about that,
Speaker 4: But there was enough of me, if I'm gonna be frank,
Speaker 4: to think about we got one, they got four hundred
Speaker 4: years of it. We got one right. I didn't feel
Speaker 4: good about what the we was. I didn't feel good
Speaker 4: about what the one, what the one was. But any
Speaker 4: black man who's ever been pulled over by a cop,
Speaker 4: any black father who's ever had to say to his
Speaker 4: son before he leaves the house, listen, do this, do this,
Speaker 4: do this? Do this. Up the street from me, literally
Speaker 4: less than a mile from me, a young black man
Speaker 4: about two years ago was murdered by cops. He was
Speaker 4: murdered like it was what it was. I mean, they
Speaker 4: broke the window. There was they had the young man
Speaker 4: surround it. They broke the window, he's still strapped in
Speaker 4: the seat, and they just unload into the car, just
Speaker 4: unload into the car. He was murdered. That's murdered. That's
Speaker 4: murd that's murdered. None of those cats have been none.
Speaker 4: All of them have been reinstated. Everyone, every cop who
Speaker 4: did that has done it. So there so there's still
Speaker 4: this feeling of in the way in which many of
Speaker 4: us can celebrate a drug dealer, like we can celebrate
Speaker 4: a drug dealer because he's getting his he's trying to
Speaker 4: do right by him. At the same time, it is
Speaker 4: feeling very, very conflicted about the fact that he's killing
Speaker 4: somebody's mother right now. Like somebody's mother right now is
Speaker 4: a drug addict. Somebody's father right now is a drug addict.
Speaker 4: I just I just lost a very good friend of
Speaker 4: mine last week to an overdose. I don't feel good
Speaker 4: about that. It's just a matter of who do we
Speaker 4: identify with at what point. I don't ever feel like
Speaker 4: the people who I was around were ever like pro Oj.
Speaker 4: We loved him as an athlete, but then we just recognize.
Speaker 4: And I'm saying this because I want to Test. I
Speaker 4: want so many people who watch you to understand that
Speaker 4: you Test are different than a lot of the black
Speaker 4: women and men that they see on television. And he
Speaker 4: has gone the radio, and I want people to really
Speaker 4: understand that a lot of those people you see, a
Speaker 4: lot of the ones you see, they don't spend a
Speaker 4: lot of time in the black community, and they damn
Speaker 4: sure don't spend a lot of time with poor black people.
Speaker 4: They may spend a lot of time with the intellectual elite,
Speaker 4: which again, thank God, go you great that your mother
Speaker 4: and father have been successful. I mean, I'm now that
Speaker 4: person to my own sons, I don't want somebody dog
Speaker 4: and my sons out because they don't spend time in poverty.
Speaker 4: That's just not their lifestyle. But it does give them
Speaker 4: a certain perspective that the kids who they went to
Speaker 4: school with in our school who don't have our kids,
Speaker 4: have a very different experience. So I want people to
Speaker 4: understand that. Very often the commentators who are talking, who
Speaker 4: are telling you what black people think, don't spend a
Speaker 4: lot of time around black people who we would typically
Speaker 4: consider when we think of black people. They're not talking
Speaker 4: about them, even.
Speaker 3: Though they say all the time, the barbecue, the barbecue.
Speaker 3: For some reason they think that makes them look cool.
Speaker 3: But continue they keep saying, who's invited to the barbecue?
Speaker 3: And I mean, you ain't at the barbecue. The barbecues
Speaker 3: and I go to you wouldn't be invited, but.
Speaker 4: Let's let's call it. Let's call it what it is.
Speaker 4: They would be the ones who would stop by the
Speaker 4: Costco and get you the macaroni chief She's like, I
Speaker 4: see the sticker on it. Come on, what did you
Speaker 4: just do here? Now I invited you. I look like
Speaker 4: a goddamn fool because you come up to this joint
Speaker 4: and you got costco.
Speaker 3: Yes, and well with let's and while let's let's use
Speaker 3: that that metaphor that analogy. Johnny Cochrane brought OJ to
Speaker 3: the barbecue. He brought them to the bar because he's
Speaker 3: left many many times.
Speaker 4: Let me put let me push you on that. Let
Speaker 4: me push you that. I don't think Johnny Cochrane brought OJ.
Speaker 4: I think Johnny Cochrane was always seen as there. So
Speaker 4: it's just like, it's just like the cousin who you bring,
Speaker 4: who brings his girlfriend or his friends to the to
Speaker 4: the cookout. You're like, he's cool because he's with you,
Speaker 4: but if you leave, he gotta go.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, No, nobody goes to the crom table
Speaker 3: playing space.
Speaker 4: He ain't get nobody's partner the space table. He's gonna
Speaker 4: this dude is gonna is gonna cut your your your
Speaker 4: ace of spades. Yes, you're gonna put it down the
Speaker 4: spade and this dude gonna throw he gonna.
Speaker 2: You know, well, that's what I mean.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: It was a plus one deal.
Speaker 3: And I want to put a pin here too, because man,
Speaker 3: this is such a good conversation.
Speaker 2: You guys tag a friend, join in.
Speaker 3: But I want to put a pin in here too,
Speaker 3: because what I talked about a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 3: with the Candice Owns conversation is the love of a
Speaker 3: black woman, because this is very critical and how we.
Speaker 2: Love and love and love and love and.
Speaker 3: Take back and take back and take back and stand by.
Speaker 3: That's why I compared the love of black woman to
Speaker 3: the love of God, the forgivingness, the even now you
Speaker 3: know people saying, you know, hey, I'm looking in the
Speaker 3: coming Kaitlyn jenneral is out of pocket, we are quick
Speaker 3: to lace up our shoes and fight.
Speaker 2: Even if you're wrong.
Speaker 3: We will still go put that house up, get you
Speaker 3: out of jail, custs you out all the way home.
Speaker 3: We will still say no matter what you did. So
Speaker 3: even in using the analogy of the barbecue, if O. J.
Speaker 3: Simpson came back and the brother's like, hey, we know
Speaker 3: what you want.
Speaker 4: We ain't really with you.
Speaker 3: But since you with Johnny, that's cool, that black woman
Speaker 3: is still gonna say can I fix your plate?
Speaker 2: Can I get you something?
Speaker 4: Have you eate?
Speaker 2: Now? Some of the sisters are gonna say, no, you
Speaker 2: want to go with that white girl.
Speaker 1: Move on.
Speaker 3: But the reason why I'm using this example doctor pear
Speaker 3: is because fast forward to Jonathan Majors now and obviously
Speaker 3: he didn't murder anybody, But I look at the comments,
Speaker 3: and I look at the black women. When he got
Speaker 3: back with before he started dating Megan, the black women
Speaker 3: were saying some were saying, you learned your lesson.
Speaker 2: It is what it is. This would have been a different.
Speaker 3: Time in nineteen ninety five because the black women, for
Speaker 3: the most part, were lining up behind O. J. Simpson
Speaker 3: because they looked at his black mother, they looked at
Speaker 3: his black daughter. But now you have I wonder what
Speaker 3: this will be like now, because now you have black
Speaker 3: women say, hey, Jonathan Major, you shouldn't have been over
Speaker 3: there anyway. But there's still an overwhelming amount of black
Speaker 3: women that are still saying, you know what, you made
Speaker 3: a mistake. We're gonna ride with you anyway. What we're
Speaker 3: not gonna do is let them tear you down. What
Speaker 3: we're not gonna do is let them take everything from you.
Speaker 3: We hope you learn and if you don't learn, whatever
Speaker 3: this learning lesson is, because there's still people say love
Speaker 3: for you, love, We don't have a problem learning you love.
Speaker 3: But there's always been this thing where black women what
Speaker 3: pains us, and I'm gonna give it back to you.
Speaker 3: The trauma that pays us is being forgotten about being
Speaker 3: left like O. J. Simpson's first wife, being there with
Speaker 3: that man through it all thick and thin. You get money,
Speaker 3: and then you leave us. Kanye said it leave you
Speaker 3: for a white girl. Ironically, Kanye did the same thing.
Speaker 3: So black women at that time moved past that pain.
Speaker 3: Some stayed in that trump and said no, they say
Speaker 3: where you at? But we're gonna rule for Johnny Cochran.
Speaker 3: So just now I see the same things happening in
Speaker 3: these conversations, just you know, looking at Jonathan Major's for example,
Speaker 3: what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I would say this to me, it's bigger
Speaker 4: than just the woman, the second woman he married. For me,
Speaker 4: it is when I look at Judge Clarence Thomas, I
Speaker 4: think of him as someone who rarely ever engages with
Speaker 4: African Americans. It's not just that he's married to a
Speaker 4: white woman. It is that he is someone who has
Speaker 4: very little sway or interest in the uplift the African
Speaker 4: American community versus someone like a Dawn Stanley, who I'm
Speaker 4: told is with a white woman. I don't think that
Speaker 4: there are very few people who doubt her integrity for
Speaker 4: cultural integrity or commitment to our greater cause. I think
Speaker 4: most people, if there were a black draft, would put
Speaker 4: Dawn Stanley at the top of their card, and she
Speaker 4: would be a first round draft pick to borrow from
Speaker 4: The Chappelle Show. So I think in the case of O. J. Simpson,
Speaker 4: I think of the in the case of Clarence Thomas,
Speaker 4: I think in the case of Candice Owens, these are
Speaker 4: people who have very little put into the cultural bank,
Speaker 4: very little interest other than the functional interest of I
Speaker 4: ain't got nobody else. It's like being they would have their.
Speaker 2: Way to remove themselves basically.
Speaker 4: Well, I would say, but if it's even more than that,
Speaker 4: it's being the person who that person never wanted to date.
Speaker 4: And then when the other people drop you, you go
Speaker 4: back and say, well, at least there's always you, like
Speaker 4: WHOA right, right, I don't feel right. I don't think
Speaker 4: I won right there, I don't feel like I won.
Speaker 4: So I don't feel that people. I feel that people.
Speaker 4: And I use it Dawn as an example because she's
Speaker 4: someone who aint nobody on question her quote unquote blackness.
Speaker 4: I don't think I think you have to Well, let
Speaker 4: me just say this. They are always when people question
Speaker 4: people's blackness. I'm not that group.
Speaker 2: But the majority of a miracle was rooting for her.
Speaker 3: For those who listen, you're talking about Don Staley, the
Speaker 3: coach of UH doctor South Cairlineman.
Speaker 4: That's correct, National champion coaches South Carolina, one of the
Speaker 4: greatest athletes of male.
Speaker 2: Who won three times.
Speaker 4: But go ahead, right, so you know, but but but
Speaker 4: Ann did so jet black and so jet black when
Speaker 4: she gave her victory speech that was torn from a
Speaker 4: Baptist pulpit that might have been a pental costal. Four
Speaker 4: o'clock in the afternoon, church is still going on from
Speaker 4: eleven a m right. So oj was never that and
Speaker 4: there was an anti race perspective that he had taken
Speaker 4: and had ridden to his zenith. Again, I'm gonna stay
Speaker 4: here for a second because a lot of people, a
Speaker 4: lot of people love Michael Jordan, but not a lot
Speaker 4: of people who love Michael Jordan have loved him for
Speaker 4: his open love of the black community. Right, They've not
Speaker 4: openly said that. He has been the guy who has
Speaker 4: taken stances on the African American experience. Michael Jordan's done
Speaker 4: fine for himself. He's done really really well for himself,
Speaker 4: you know, and it's one of the greatest athletes of
Speaker 4: all time. I don't know what he's given or what
Speaker 4: he hasn't given. I'm not in that man's pocket, but
Speaker 4: I'm saying is well, he said.
Speaker 3: He's about selling shoes, so he said, don't don't look
Speaker 3: to him for the.
Speaker 4: I remember when he actually, I actually remember when he
Speaker 4: said that. But let's just use some you know, there
Speaker 4: are certain people who are and you and I talk
Speaker 4: about this, who are conservative, let's just say, who have
Speaker 4: a political perspective that is not let's say, bought and
Speaker 4: sold by the by the by the left. But I
Speaker 4: would say, you would say they're just as black as anybody.
Speaker 4: Just because they don't believe in abortion, and just because
Speaker 4: they don't think that they mean they're as committed to
Speaker 4: the community as anybody. They go to a black church,
Speaker 4: they know what to bring to a cookout. They could
Speaker 4: be a spade part that. They are the people who
Speaker 4: are in the community doing the work. They're deeply committed.
Speaker 4: They just have a different different spin on what who
Speaker 4: to vote for and why. That's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 4: What we're talking about is people who buy and large
Speaker 4: have no interest, connection, or commitment to the black community. O. J.
Speaker 4: Simpson was that person and was proud of it. I
Speaker 4: don't know him as a man. I'm just talking about
Speaker 4: what his public right. What do the public offerings were right?
Speaker 4: Because even even somebody like a Jim Brown who said
Speaker 4: you've been throwing white women out windows, or James Brown
Speaker 4: who was doing his share of, you know, domestic violence,
Speaker 4: each one of them at points in their lives were
Speaker 4: very clearly trying to organize other black men's proud to
Speaker 4: be resources.
Speaker 2: And that's so important, Doctor Perry. I'm so glad man,
Speaker 2: this is good. Y'all.
Speaker 3: Make sure y'all tag somebody again. Let me just reiterate
Speaker 3: there and put a pen in it, because I'm looking
Speaker 3: at the comments and want to make sure they know
Speaker 3: exactly what you're saying. This is not about saying that
Speaker 3: anybody that has an interracial relationship is anti black.
Speaker 2: It is about the position.
Speaker 3: Because we can look to Harry Belafonte, there is no
Speaker 3: question about his blackness married to a white woman. So
Speaker 3: this is not a bred Douglas that's right, Yes, it's right.
Speaker 3: So this is not about because you know, they always
Speaker 3: try to dumb that to day. I owe somebody just
Speaker 3: mad because somebody. No, that's not it. It is about
Speaker 3: the intentional disrespect, the intentional separation, the intentional.
Speaker 4: Not just abandon.
Speaker 2: Proud about it.
Speaker 4: That's an aggressive how'd an aggressive abandon? Like the if
Speaker 4: y'all want to know who these people are, they're the
Speaker 4: black student that you see when you're walking on campus,
Speaker 4: who looks away. It's like who raised you?
Speaker 3: If you?
Speaker 4: If you if you're a black kid on a white
Speaker 4: campus and you see another black person walking towards you, you
Speaker 4: don't give the head nod. I see you, little boy,
Speaker 4: I see you. But remember somebody else is gonna see
Speaker 4: you too. It's that person who's at the company that
Speaker 4: you both work at, who's African American, who doesn't even
Speaker 4: acknowledge your existence. That's like, wow, that's what we're doing. Now.
Speaker 4: I got you and said you're gonna go off. You're
Speaker 4: gonna go off for crack beers with them. Tell me
Speaker 4: how long it's gonna take before they drop an inWORD
Speaker 4: on you. They just say they just playing, And yet
Speaker 4: it don't come over to me afterwards.
Speaker 2: That's right. And yet it's the and see that. That's
Speaker 2: the point.
Speaker 3: Some people say, don't come over to me afterwards. But
Speaker 3: we find ourselves as black people, what are forgiving? Loving self?
Speaker 3: And that's the part that I think I say, interesting. Yeah, not,
Speaker 3: There's plenty of us to say, no, duly, no toe.
Speaker 2: Stay where you're at it, where you're at it.
Speaker 3: If you like what you heard on straight Shot No Chaser,
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Speaker 3: a friend. Straight Shot No Chaser is a production of
Speaker 3: the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartRadio on Tesline figure Out,
Speaker 3: and I'd like to thank our producer editor mixer Dwayne
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