Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports
Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And today on the podcast, we are
Speaker 1: going to chuckle a persistent stereotype targeted toward Latina women,
Speaker 1: and that is of the spicy Latina. That's right, And
Speaker 1: this is kind of jumping off of an episode we
Speaker 1: did previously on the exoticization of women of color, the
Speaker 1: fact that a lot of women of color get called exotic,
Speaker 1: their exotic beauty, this and that, and how so many
Speaker 1: people who are not women of color considered a compliment. No,
Speaker 1: I'm complimenting you, and so much of the feedback that
Speaker 1: we received from listeners was saying, hey, thanks for talking
Speaker 1: about it, because I just feel like somebody's comparing me
Speaker 1: to an animal. Yeah, And one thing that we heard
Speaker 1: a lot from Latina listeners is about how they will
Speaker 1: be called spicy or they're hot tamalies or their mama Sita's.
Speaker 1: They're always highly sexualized under this spicy umbrella and also
Speaker 1: kind of put into this monolithic box of all Latina's
Speaker 1: being curvaceous, tan skinned with long wavy hair. They cook
Speaker 1: a lot of spicy food, and they also, you know,
Speaker 1: speak English with a thick accent. And above all, again
Speaker 1: and again, they're spicy. They're often described in terms of food, right,
Speaker 1: And I thought one columnists put it really well. Shantiana
Speaker 1: Laden at the Feminist Wire talked about this whole spicy
Speaker 1: Latina stereotype and what it means, and that a lot
Speaker 1: of people and this is not just her, a lot
Speaker 1: of these columnists talking about this issue. We're saying, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody might not even realize my heritage or my background,
Speaker 1: but as soon as they find out that I'm Latina,
Speaker 1: they make all of these really gross, weird, inappropriate assumptions
Speaker 1: about me and the bedroom. And she just says, flat out, look,
Speaker 1: I am not your spicy Latina. Yeah. She goes on
Speaker 1: to say, quote, so when people tell me I must
Speaker 1: be a spitfire or a freaky girl in bed because
Speaker 1: I'm Hispanic, I am not at all flattered. They're working
Speaker 1: on stereotypes created long ago to subordinate women of color
Speaker 1: and cast them as the inferior other. And there were
Speaker 1: so many other columnists of all sorts of Latina ethnicities
Speaker 1: who weighed in on this very topic across the Internet,
Speaker 1: all saying the same thing over and over and over
Speaker 1: again in terms of, hey, guess what, I'm not your
Speaker 1: spicy Latina and also can we please stop this stereotype? Right?
Speaker 1: And part of that is is body image. A lot
Speaker 1: of people expect because of amazing women like j Lo
Speaker 1: or or other women like that, they expect a certain
Speaker 1: figure from Latina women. And Raquel Record at Everyday Feminism
Speaker 1: talked about this curvy Latina stereotype being so damaging two
Speaker 1: young women because she says, look, okay, so maybe in
Speaker 1: our culture we don't have the same pressure to be
Speaker 1: the size zero Cape Moss supermodel, um, but we do
Speaker 1: have this pressure to look like Salmahiyak or to look
Speaker 1: like j Lo with a tiny waist, a big behind
Speaker 1: in large breasts. Yeah. And she also wrote about this
Speaker 1: over at fem Inspire. Record did and she said the
Speaker 1: words used to describe Latina bodies like spicy, hot, juicy
Speaker 1: figuratively reduced Latina's to food that's craved, salivated, over, attained, devoured,
Speaker 1: and then flushed away. And I think, jumping straight off
Speaker 1: of that whole idea of food, that image of a
Speaker 1: Latino woman being presented as something to be consumed leads
Speaker 1: us right into Emmys. Uh, during which, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of you are aware of this, during which
Speaker 1: Colombian born actress Sophia Regard of Modern Family Funny Show
Speaker 1: literally put on a pedestal and rotated for the audience
Speaker 1: as the president of the awards show delivered a really
Speaker 1: dry speech basically saying, here is this spicy latina to
Speaker 1: look at as I give you this really dry, boring speech. Well,
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be this kind of visual joke too,
Speaker 1: because he was talking about the great strides that women
Speaker 1: on television had made. And there you have Sophia Virgara,
Speaker 1: who is, by the way, the highest paid woman in
Speaker 1: Hollywood right now, rotating on a pedestal. And when Vergara
Speaker 1: responded to people, especially on Twitter, saying, um, what's happening
Speaker 1: right now? Why is she on a pedestal? This isn't okay,
Speaker 1: she responded to it and said, Hey, I think this
Speaker 1: is a sign of success for women because I can
Speaker 1: be funny, attractive, sexy and also make fun of myself.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it still is indicative of
Speaker 1: a broader problem because there was a tweet that you found,
Speaker 1: right Caroline from one of the founders of the Misrepresentation
Speaker 1: Project sort of hammers at home. Yeah, okay, because I
Speaker 1: mean I see Regara's point absolutely that you know, hey,
Speaker 1: I can be all of these things. I am multifaceted.
Speaker 1: I'm not just sexy or just funny or just smart
Speaker 1: or whatever. I can be all of these things in
Speaker 1: one person. And I get that. And you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people who were defending this decision to put
Speaker 1: her on a rotating pedestal, we're saying, hey, she's in
Speaker 1: on the joke. It's funny, let her be funny. Everybody
Speaker 1: needs to chill out. But um Imron Sadiki, who's one
Speaker 1: of the founding members, like Kristen Said of the Representation Project,
Speaker 1: said tweeted that Sophia Regara is objectified on stage by
Speaker 1: the president of an award show that has only twice
Speaker 1: awarded a Latina woman with an acting award. I think
Speaker 1: that puts it in really good perspective that, Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: a woman is obviously allowed to be all of these things,
Speaker 1: for for sure. But there's there's a history there, and
Speaker 1: they're a lot of stereotypes that go back a very
Speaker 1: long way about Latina's Yeah, so Let's go over a
Speaker 1: brief history of Latino stereotyping, because when you start to
Speaker 1: understand where we've come from and you see where we
Speaker 1: are today, it starts to crystallize. Why so if you
Speaker 1: have regard on a pedestal is not necessarily a sign
Speaker 1: of progress. Right. A lot of racism, bad attitudes, stereotyping
Speaker 1: towards Latinos goes all the way back to the nineteenth century.
Speaker 1: Um America is expanding westward, we are taking land, and
Speaker 1: in so doing, we are pushing people off of their land.
Speaker 1: And so it's in the mid nineteenth century that we
Speaker 1: have the Mexican American War, which basically led to the
Speaker 1: US taking over Texas, New Mexico and part of what
Speaker 1: is now California. Yeah, and and this is all under
Speaker 1: the guys in American says that this idea of manifest
Speaker 1: destiny that this land is our land and we're going
Speaker 1: to take it from you Native Americans and Mexicans and
Speaker 1: whoever else really is not of European descent who's going
Speaker 1: to get in our way. So after the Mexican American
Speaker 1: War from eighteen forty eight to eighteen fifty five, you
Speaker 1: have the California gold Rush, and with the California gold Rush,
Speaker 1: there is also this intensifying anti Mexican sentiment brewing specifically
Speaker 1: to keep Mexican miners out of these gold mines, and
Speaker 1: so you have things like discriminatory tax policies being enacted
Speaker 1: to keep specifically Mexican and Spanish speaking miners from the area.
Speaker 1: And they were even lynch ings taking place right and
Speaker 1: you know Kristen mentioned discriminatory tax policies, there were definitely
Speaker 1: policies put in place during this time regarding specifically people
Speaker 1: of Spanish speaking descent. And in eighteen fifty five in California,
Speaker 1: for instance, there was an anti vagrancy statute known as
Speaker 1: the Greaser Act, which defined vagrant as quote all persons
Speaker 1: commonly known as greasers or the issue meaning that the
Speaker 1: descendants of Spanish and Indian blood who go armed and
Speaker 1: are not peaceable and quiet persons. And so this whole
Speaker 1: quote unquote greaser thing is part of larger negative stereotypes
Speaker 1: towards Spanish speaking people and natives of this area. This
Speaker 1: is also around the time that we get the the
Speaker 1: stereotype of the lazy Mexican the bandido, which really arose
Speaker 1: as justifications for this discriminatory treatment because it's not pre
Speaker 1: existing racism, and this applies to African Americans to end slavery.
Speaker 1: It's not racism that leads to negative treatment or racism
Speaker 1: that leads to enslaving an entire population. It is racism
Speaker 1: that justifies the awful treatment of other human beings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and similar kinds of things were being applied to Native
Speaker 1: Americans as well. In other words, like to justify this
Speaker 1: concept of manifest destiny, you have to at some point
Speaker 1: feel okay with the fact that you are, you know,
Speaker 1: pushing these people out of land that is rand that
Speaker 1: you know that they were there first on. So the
Speaker 1: way these discriminatory attitudes and negative stereotypes transition onto the
Speaker 1: screen is that you know, as this is going on
Speaker 1: in California, the film industry in the early twentieth century,
Speaker 1: in the nineteen tents and nineteen twenties, is starting to
Speaker 1: developed in the highly racially segregated Los Angeles like white
Speaker 1: people and uh Native Americans who were living there or
Speaker 1: Mexicans would not be all living in the same area.
Speaker 1: It was highly segregated. But at the same time, off screen,
Speaker 1: there were plenty of Latino actors to rector, cinematographers and
Speaker 1: other people working on film sets. But the on screen
Speaker 1: portrayal of Latino characters was terrible. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: usually under the stereotype of the greaser or the Latin lover,
Speaker 1: which was actually popularized by Rudolf Valentino, who was an
Speaker 1: Italian actor. Um, and then you have the dark lady
Speaker 1: or seductress. And Steven Sarranana Lampson, who's a documentary filmmaker
Speaker 1: who looked into the contributions of Latinos in the silent
Speaker 1: film era said quote. In the typical grease or film,
Speaker 1: Latina's were depicted as the heathen seductress with little morals,
Speaker 1: physically aggressive, and with an insatiable sexual appetite. And so
Speaker 1: there are examples, for instance of the nineteen twelve film
Speaker 1: Bronco Billy's Mexican Wife, and then the fourteen film Broncho
Speaker 1: Billy and the Greaser, in which I think it's in
Speaker 1: that one in which the Mexican wife runs off and
Speaker 1: tries to marry someone else and is portrayed yet again
Speaker 1: as sexually insatiable and very devious. Right, So all in all,
Speaker 1: not very positive representations of uh well just really anyone
Speaker 1: who's not white, honestly. And at this point it's getting
Speaker 1: so bad that in the Mexican government actually banned any
Speaker 1: offensive movie along these lines, and Panama enacted a similar
Speaker 1: band actually, and uh, the US film industry was supposed
Speaker 1: to sort of clean up its act, but that obviously
Speaker 1: did not stop the stereotyping from happening. And what's kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating to see is how this stereotype evolves from
Speaker 1: this era when Mexicans in particular were only depicted as
Speaker 1: either you know, lazy or their criminals, or again this
Speaker 1: sort of harlot type of character. But then once you
Speaker 1: get to the nineteen thirties with FDR as president and
Speaker 1: the Good Neighbor Policy which effectively terminated the U S
Speaker 1: occupation of nicaraguaan Haiti, essentially FDR being like, hey, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, let's let's be friends. Somehow, you have
Speaker 1: this evolution of what's referred to as tropicalism, and you
Speaker 1: see on film this transition of Latinos and Latin American
Speaker 1: depictions turning away from just being lazy, ignorant criminals to
Speaker 1: it being this paradise but still full of these funny,
Speaker 1: exotic locals. They're just funny, Caroline, because they speak English
Speaker 1: and in and in broken sentences, and they enjoy, you know,
Speaker 1: wearing fruits on their heads. Right, So it wants it's
Speaker 1: paternalistic and totally diminishing entire groups of people at the
Speaker 1: same time that it is comple lately blurring any lines
Speaker 1: that exist between different cultures, countries, ethnicities, people of different heritages. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I think that this has continued through today. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: if you look at stereotypes that still exist. I think
Speaker 1: American audiences in particular. You know, I can't speak for
Speaker 1: audiences of other countries, but I mean I still think
Speaker 1: that people from uh, South America, Latin America, they're all
Speaker 1: portrayed as being one giant, monolithic group. Yeah. And this
Speaker 1: was something that Isabelle Molina, Guzman and Angara and Valdivia
Speaker 1: wrote about in a paper called Brain Brow and Booty
Speaker 1: Latina Icono City in US popular Culture. They said, with
Speaker 1: the rise of tropicalism, it quote a racist specificity and
Speaker 1: homogenizes all that is identified as Latin and Latino or
Speaker 1: Latina under the trope of tropicalism, with attributes such as
Speaker 1: bright colors, rhythmic music, and brown or olive skin, comprising
Speaker 1: some of the most enduring stereotypes about Latina's, a stereotype
Speaker 1: best embodied by the excesses of Carmen Miranda. Yeah, Carmen
Speaker 1: Miranda is a really interesting character. She um like she
Speaker 1: exists in my brain thanks to movies and cartoons I
Speaker 1: watched as a kid. I feel like she was in
Speaker 1: cartoons too, like bugs, Bunny and stuff. Um. But she
Speaker 1: donned the exaggerated traditional costume of poor young girls from
Speaker 1: the Brazilian state of Bahia, with her flowing dress and
Speaker 1: wearing a fruit laden turban. She was definitely beloved in
Speaker 1: the States for being exotic there's that word, um, and
Speaker 1: really entertaining and funny. But she was deeply, deeply criticized
Speaker 1: at home for her depiction of what a Latino woman is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're still not familiar with who she is, just
Speaker 1: think about the Shakuda banana lady. That essentially is Carmen
Speaker 1: Miranda's quintessential character. And all of this is going on
Speaker 1: with her singing about, you know, living in South America
Speaker 1: and wearing bananas on her head, despite I mean, just
Speaker 1: for one instance, the fact that there were were these
Speaker 1: so called banana republics created by the United Fruit Company,
Speaker 1: which is an American company, that were ruinous to multiple
Speaker 1: Latin American nations. It's like facts like that, they're just
Speaker 1: swept under the rug. And we have Carmen Miranda tap
Speaker 1: dancing out saying, Okay, I'm gonna collapse all of this
Speaker 1: culture and the fact that this tire fruit industry actually
Speaker 1: ruined a lot of, uh, the situations for local people.
Speaker 1: And here's my song in which I talk about how
Speaker 1: colorful I am and I say everything in broken English, which,
Speaker 1: like you said, Caroline when she returned makes it big
Speaker 1: in the US and then transitions into Hollywood. When she
Speaker 1: goes back to Brazil, people are not taking so kindly
Speaker 1: to her. It's kind of tragic in a way because
Speaker 1: she's figured out how to leverage you know, this uh exoticism,
Speaker 1: can we say for you know, monetary gaining success, but
Speaker 1: you know, at the cost of losing her you know,
Speaker 1: local fans, right, which actually makes me think about what
Speaker 1: we talked at the top of the podcast about, which
Speaker 1: is Sofia Regara, because I mean, if you look at
Speaker 1: Carmen Randa answer Fia Regara, there are definite parallels. Um
Speaker 1: Carmen Miranda herself was Hollywood's highest paid woman in much
Speaker 1: like Sofia Regara is today. But Regara is brought up
Speaker 1: in a lot of columns by Latino women, many of
Speaker 1: which we kind of touched on early in the podcast,
Speaker 1: mentioning that maybe this isn't the best depiction and of
Speaker 1: what a Latina woman is or what Latina women are,
Speaker 1: not that they are one monolithic group, but I think
Speaker 1: that's what they're arguing, that we're not all the whole spicy, sexy,
Speaker 1: bublitious stereotype. Yeah, and while personally I enjoy Modern Family
Speaker 1: and I, you know, she's a funny character just in
Speaker 1: and of that self sort of in isolation, but it's
Speaker 1: startling to see how in order to reach the top
Speaker 1: of the Hollywood pay scale in and even today, it
Speaker 1: apparently still comes at the cost of lampooning and stereotyping
Speaker 1: an entire culture. Right, So this then leads us into
Speaker 1: prominent Latina stereotypes in film, because Virgara and Carmen Miranda
Speaker 1: would both go under the Mexican spitfire slash female clown,
Speaker 1: and the stereotype was actually first embody, not so much
Speaker 1: by Carmen Miranda, but by an earlier actress named Lupe VELAs,
Speaker 1: and was featured prominently in films such as and pay
Speaker 1: attention to these titles Hot Pepper in three, Strictly Dynamite four,
Speaker 1: The Girl from Mexico in nine, and Mexican Spitfire in nine.
Speaker 1: Do we see any commonalities among all these titles, lots
Speaker 1: of references to heat and spice and spitfire, Well, yeah
Speaker 1: we do. And one other woman who sort of embodied
Speaker 1: these stereotypes was Estelita Rodriguez, who her portrayal of the
Speaker 1: quote unquote Cuban Fireball was depicted in films like Cuban
Speaker 1: Fireball in nine, Havanna Rose also in The Fabulous Senorita
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two, and Tropical heat Wave in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty two. And I mean, I feel like that name, specifically,
Speaker 1: Tropical heat Wave plays very much into this whole tropicalism
Speaker 1: trope about like it's a paradise. Look at our sexy,
Speaker 1: bodacious babes that exist in this tropical land. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's usually those kind of films were usually based around
Speaker 1: Anglo characters taking some kind of vacation to get away
Speaker 1: from the hustle and bustle of American life and coming
Speaker 1: to this paradise, or they meet these uh you know, cute,
Speaker 1: fascinating and sometimes spicy locals who will then either propel
Speaker 1: a romance between the two two white characters or teach
Speaker 1: them something about themselves, and then they'll leave and everything
Speaker 1: is magical and perfect, and I mean it should be
Speaker 1: said about these actresses to um. One thing that film
Speaker 1: historians point out is that, yes, we have these these
Speaker 1: particular women embodying these certain stereotypes, but you have to
Speaker 1: take it back a few levels and consider well what
Speaker 1: roles were really being offered at the time. And in
Speaker 1: some cases there there were instances when they could subvert stereotypes,
Speaker 1: but it was and apparently still is, as we'll talk
Speaker 1: about more kind of challenging to do right and we'll
Speaker 1: talk more about some of the Latina stereotypes and film
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Speaker 1: So one of the main features of the female clown
Speaker 1: is using comedy as a way to dampen their outward sexuality.
Speaker 1: They they would be seen in super sexy, but they
Speaker 1: would be so funny as to not be uh sort
Speaker 1: of eliminate themselves from being a love interest of the
Speaker 1: usually white male protagonists in these films, or threatening or
Speaker 1: exactly yes, Um, But when it comes to the harlot
Speaker 1: or can't in a girl, as the stereotype is sometimes
Speaker 1: referred to, there's no comedy about it. This stereotype is
Speaker 1: all about sex. Is essentially the female analog to the
Speaker 1: l Bendido stereotype of latinos in film. Right, She's dangerous,
Speaker 1: but not in the same way that the vamp, which
Speaker 1: we'll talk about a second, is dangerous. She is found
Speaker 1: in a lot of Western films. She's definitely more of
Speaker 1: a secondary character, hot tempered, and she's a slave to
Speaker 1: her passions. But when it comes to the vamp, as
Speaker 1: Caroline mentioned, the stereotype is essentially a couple of steps
Speaker 1: up from the Cantina girl because not only is she
Speaker 1: presented in a very outwardly sexual way and is clearly
Speaker 1: sexually motivated, but the vamp uses her intellectual and devious
Speaker 1: sexual whiles to get what she wants. And this is
Speaker 1: also the character that you see UH sort of pitting
Speaker 1: two male characters in films against themselves because she's so
Speaker 1: wildy but so sexual. She's irresistible but so wiley, so spicy,
Speaker 1: so spicy. Um, and modern audiences would recognize the vamp
Speaker 1: in Eva Longoria's character in Desperate Housewives, who is married
Speaker 1: but she has an affair and then those two men
Speaker 1: go nuts over it and all this stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there was actually an entire paper that we read just
Speaker 1: looking at I think it was called The Three Faces
Speaker 1: of Eva, just examining how Eva Longoria, both on screen
Speaker 1: and somewhat off screen too, as we'll talk about a minute,
Speaker 1: fits into these stereotypes. Um. But then sort of, the
Speaker 1: opposite of the vamp is the faithful, self sacrificing Senorita.
Speaker 1: This according to Gary D. Keller, this woman usually starts
Speaker 1: out good but then goes bad by the middle of
Speaker 1: the film or TV show, and usually the character realizes
Speaker 1: she's gone wrong and is still willing, though, to protect
Speaker 1: her Anglo love interest by placing herself between him and
Speaker 1: whatever danger she has brought upon him. She's kind of
Speaker 1: this reminds me of one of the common women in
Speaker 1: video game tropes that comes up of the disposable woman
Speaker 1: who must be killed in order for the hero to prevail. Well,
Speaker 1: she I mean, and she's double got to be killed
Speaker 1: if she used to be good, oh and then went
Speaker 1: bad like she was like triple killed. But okay, so
Speaker 1: moving forward today, surely it's better, right, Surely it's great
Speaker 1: and we all get along and everything is puppies and kittens. Okay, sure,
Speaker 1: I think there are plenty of film there. There are
Speaker 1: some films and one of the people. Plenty. There are
Speaker 1: some films that reach beyond those four very rigid stereotypes.
Speaker 1: But representation is still lacking, glare worryingly lacking. Right. This
Speaker 1: is coming from a recent study by University of Southern
Speaker 1: California's Dr Stacy Smith, and she looked at the top
Speaker 1: one performing films between two thousand seven and and found
Speaker 1: that Latino characters are really no surprise, underrepresented and hyper sexualized.
Speaker 1: She found that only four point nine percent of speaking
Speaker 1: characters in those years that she looked at were Hispanic.
Speaker 1: And so if you compare that to the sixteen point
Speaker 1: three percent of the US population that is Hispanic, and
Speaker 1: the fact that twenty percent of theater tickets are purchased
Speaker 1: by Latino movie goers, that's a pretty appalling number. And
Speaker 1: when it comes to Latina's on screen. They are the
Speaker 1: most likely to be partially or fully naked among all women.
Speaker 1: So hyper sexualized very much still happening. And even though
Speaker 1: I mean, you do have Latina's at the top of
Speaker 1: their game in Hollywood. I mean, we've already mentioned j
Speaker 1: lo Eva Longoria, Sophia Vergara, you have Salma Hayak. We
Speaker 1: could keep going on and on. There are a number
Speaker 1: of Latina A List stars, but there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of frustration with the perpetuation of these stereotyped portrayals. Um
Speaker 1: and and this was something that a question that was
Speaker 1: raised right at the launch of a show executive produce
Speaker 1: actually by Eva Longoria called Devious Maids, which is still
Speaker 1: running right now as of this podcast recording on Lifetime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to say, the first time I ever saw
Speaker 1: an ad for the show, my eyebrows raised to my hairline.
Speaker 1: I was I was incredibly suppressed. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: it was at the time, didn't know that Eva Longoria
Speaker 1: was producing it. But but you know, this is another
Speaker 1: thing like Sofia regard being on a pedestal and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: it's no big deal. Eva Longoria was saying, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with the spicy thing. You know, what's wrong with being
Speaker 1: a Latin lover? Why is that a bad stereotype? She said,
Speaker 1: I consider that a compliment. Same thing with latinas always
Speaker 1: being cast as the sexy girl. It's a good thing.
Speaker 1: And I thought, Okay, al right, Okay, so she's beautiful
Speaker 1: and she's cool with the stereotype, and that's fine. But
Speaker 1: I couldn't help thinking that what if that quote was
Speaker 1: about African American women? You know, like, I feel like,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with always being the sassy black friend? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: what's well that, what's wrong with always being the stereotypical
Speaker 1: sassy black friend? But what if somebody were to say
Speaker 1: that about black women, like, hey, what's wrong with always
Speaker 1: being sexy? Just because okay, there's nothing wrong with being sexy,
Speaker 1: like in a vacuum. There is nothing wrong with being
Speaker 1: sexy or sexual. But when you when you look at
Speaker 1: the fact that African American women all the way back
Speaker 1: to slavery were hyper sexualized and considered savages with their sexuality,
Speaker 1: and you look at the same stereotypes that exist around
Speaker 1: Latino women. I mean, I think that and I'm saying
Speaker 1: this as a non Hispanic person, as a non Latina,
Speaker 1: but I feel like that it's kind of a dangerous,
Speaker 1: dangerous territory to tread well. If anything, it's undoubtedly limiting, right.
Speaker 1: You know, Eva Longoria clearly has made an entire career,
Speaker 1: and a successful one at that, playing this very specific
Speaker 1: type of character. But there are a lot of other
Speaker 1: Latina actresses out there who might want a shot at
Speaker 1: not just having to play a trophy wife, um and
Speaker 1: just going back to the devious maids thing. It was
Speaker 1: just interesting that she executive produced this, and yes it
Speaker 1: stars all Latina's who are playing maids, but there were
Speaker 1: some people raising their eyebrows. I don't know if their
Speaker 1: eyebrows went all the way up to their airlines like
Speaker 1: Carolines did, but some concern at the outside of the show,
Speaker 1: which by the way, was not something she just concocted
Speaker 1: out of her head. It's actually an americanized version the
Speaker 1: show that originated on Spanish language television, but they changed
Speaker 1: up the racial makeup of all the characters, which used
Speaker 1: to and its original incarnation it used to be all
Speaker 1: Latinos playing from the wealthy down to the maids, but
Speaker 1: now they changed it up so that I believe the
Speaker 1: wealthy people who have the maids are all white people,
Speaker 1: and also the head writer was a white guy too,
Speaker 1: So there were some people just wondering, Okay, is this
Speaker 1: really going to be Are we really going to see
Speaker 1: the stories of these women, because certainly, you know, just
Speaker 1: because it is about maids, it doesn't mean that important
Speaker 1: stories can't be told. But there were concerns over whether
Speaker 1: that representation would simply be repeating old stereotypes over and
Speaker 1: over again, or which is I mean, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a legitimate concern. Yeah, yeah, um. But there are
Speaker 1: also actresses out there who seem to have bucked stereotyped roles,
Speaker 1: like America Ferrara is one who um comes up a
Speaker 1: lot in these kinds of conversations, and Selma Hiak also
Speaker 1: started her own production company partially to broaden the types
Speaker 1: of roles available to herself and to other Latinas. But
Speaker 1: what's interesting too is how there are a lot of
Speaker 1: a list performers out there with Latino roots but who
Speaker 1: don't want to be labeled Latina actresses, not because they're
Speaker 1: ashamed of their ethnicity, but precisely because they don't want
Speaker 1: to be pigeonholed and stereotyped because those stereotypes are so persistent,
Speaker 1: those stereotypes that evil Longoria apparently is you know, totally
Speaker 1: fine with. Yeah. Well, the big one I think that
Speaker 1: comes up a lot is Jessica. She's referred to as Jessica,
Speaker 1: don't call me Latina Alba. Yeah, she got a lot
Speaker 1: of flak for that. Like I remember that if if
Speaker 1: something from pop culture like that jumps out at me,
Speaker 1: it was a big deal. But other other actresses like
Speaker 1: Cameron Diaz who is Cuban on her dad's side, Uma Thurman,
Speaker 1: who had a Mexican born mother, which I had no
Speaker 1: idea about. But then again, why why would I really honestly, um,
Speaker 1: Sarah Ramirez, who plays a character on Grey's Anatomy, is
Speaker 1: a quarter of Mexican, and then Leah Michelle from Glee,
Speaker 1: who is both part Italian American and part Spanish, Sephardic Jewish,
Speaker 1: and Parks and Wrec fans might already know that Aubrey
Speaker 1: Plaza is half Puerto Rican, and Gilmore Girls fans might
Speaker 1: know that Alexis Bludel, who plays Rory, has a Mexican
Speaker 1: mother and an Argentine father. And it's just these kinds
Speaker 1: of lists are interesting because I think it was in
Speaker 1: an interview with Sarah Amiraz from Grey's Anatomy, who was
Speaker 1: specifically asked about being always classified, like always making it
Speaker 1: on the X number of Latina actresses you didn't know
Speaker 1: where Latina, and she just kind of laughed it off
Speaker 1: and talked about how it those kinds of things do
Speaker 1: nothing to improve the representation and just sort of that
Speaker 1: line that it seems like as actress as they have
Speaker 1: to walk between like, Okay, well, if I fully identify
Speaker 1: with this, then am I only going to get these
Speaker 1: kinds of roles or you know? Well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think in the case of Sarah Ramirez and her co
Speaker 1: workers on Grey's Anatomy and other Shonda Rhime shows are
Speaker 1: are doing really well in terms of representation because someone
Speaker 1: likes Sarah Ramirez, isn't the Latina character you know, um,
Speaker 1: other characters on those shows aren't the black friend you
Speaker 1: know there. I think Shanna Rhymes is providing some really great,
Speaker 1: well rounded characters and plot lines that don't focus on
Speaker 1: the race or ethnicity of her characters. And so I
Speaker 1: I did enjoy I did enjoy watching Gray's Anatomy at
Speaker 1: one point not so much anymore. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: Jump the Sharks. Sorry, but someone like Sara Ramirez I
Speaker 1: think I like. I like her a lot well. And
Speaker 1: I was surprised to learn too that this has been
Speaker 1: something um that Jennifer Lopez j LO has had to
Speaker 1: fight as well, um, particularly when it came to the
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's probably the most feminist film
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood canon. The Wedding Planner. Her character it
Speaker 1: is Italian American, and her agents specifically fought for her
Speaker 1: to get that role, sort of to just show that hey,
Speaker 1: she can she can do this, whereas if you look
Speaker 1: at her in Made Manhattan, her character is specifically Latino.
Speaker 1: But it's just interesting to see these kinds of case studies,
Speaker 1: if you can call them that, of actresses actively seeking
Speaker 1: to play beyond what people want to pigeonhole them in
Speaker 1: based on their heritage, because it's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: white actors have pretty much had the opportunity to play
Speaker 1: often whatever kind of ethnicity they want, because you could
Speaker 1: say that that is often a privilege afforded to white
Speaker 1: actor of oh yeah, I go, what ethnicity are? You know,
Speaker 1: they don't get asked that at all they're just put
Speaker 1: in that role. Yeah. Well, Daisy Hernandez at NPR was
Speaker 1: writing about the sexiest depictions of Latino women. Um, but
Speaker 1: she was writing about it from the perspective of the
Speaker 1: sexism that's happening on actual Spanish language shows, not just
Speaker 1: in American media. Um. And talks about how a lot
Speaker 1: of the women that are on shows on Spanish language television,
Speaker 1: line talk shows or whatever, variety shows, the man might
Speaker 1: be in a fancy suit that's you know, just a
Speaker 1: normal suit, and the woman next to him will be
Speaker 1: in like a crop top and in short shorts. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She highlights particularly Sabato Gigante, which is in the Guinness
Speaker 1: Book of World Records, by the way, as the longest
Speaker 1: running variety show which constantly features scantily clad women, and
Speaker 1: also l showed a Fernando he'd all go out of
Speaker 1: Miami and sort of the point that she's the overall
Speaker 1: point she's making is, Okay, here's the thing. It's not
Speaker 1: just American media fueling this spicy trope. And she summed
Speaker 1: it up so well in fact, that I'm going to
Speaker 1: read this rather long quote she said, across Cultura's borders
Speaker 1: and languages entertainment industries profit from selling handpicked images of
Speaker 1: women's bodies. On English language television, the emphasis is on
Speaker 1: the rolling rs. On Spanish language television, it's on the
Speaker 1: smiles and the bilays. In both cases, women are reduced
Speaker 1: to the quare posts, their hips, their rear ends, their senios.
Speaker 1: I suspect it will take many Latino women not on screen,
Speaker 1: but rather controlling cash flows and camera crews and committing
Speaker 1: to social change to change TV land in both has
Speaker 1: of America. Yeah, people like salmahiak Is running her production
Speaker 1: company exactly exactly, So that's why you and things. On
Speaker 1: a positive note, it is great that we do have
Speaker 1: so many Latina stars not only already in the A
Speaker 1: list but also on the rise. But this is also
Speaker 1: just it touches on so many different aspects in terms
Speaker 1: of yes, exoticizing women of color, and also to the
Speaker 1: importance of women in Hollywood in positions of power, because
Speaker 1: that's what it will take to change overall the portrayal
Speaker 1: of women on screen, which then trickles down to how
Speaker 1: we think about and treat women off screens. So with that,
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you, dear listeners. Latina is
Speaker 1: listening We especially want to hear your thoughts on this
Speaker 1: mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is where
Speaker 1: you can email us. You can also tweet us at
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast and messages on Facebook as well, and
Speaker 1: we have a couple of messages to share with you
Speaker 1: right now. All right, Vanessa writes us about our cosplay episode.
Speaker 1: She says, I've been waiting for a cosplay episode since
Speaker 1: I first started listening. Well, she says, my sister and
Speaker 1: I have been making our own Halloween costumes since we
Speaker 1: were kids, and have been costplaying at conventions for about
Speaker 1: three years. We're not pros at it by any means,
Speaker 1: but we love repurposing old clothes or thrift shop fines
Speaker 1: for cosplay on the cheap. Neither of us has had
Speaker 1: any issues at a convention, thankfully. In one of our favorites,
Speaker 1: the Steampunk World's Fair in New Jersey, actually had a
Speaker 1: series of panels on treating all attendees with respect and
Speaker 1: courtesy and making the con feel like a safe space. However,
Speaker 1: one thing I have felt almost every year tending conventions
Speaker 1: is the dreaded walk to con I know some people
Speaker 1: like to change once they reach the convention center, but
Speaker 1: we've always arrived in costume and have both been made
Speaker 1: to feel uncomfortable when using public transit, going out for
Speaker 1: food prices at the con are crazy, or just walking
Speaker 1: home and costume away from the crowds of similar really
Speaker 1: costumed fans. It kind of dampens the excitement when you
Speaker 1: have to think about bringing a coat or cover up
Speaker 1: in order to get there without being harassed. I'm sure
Speaker 1: some of the stairs and comments are simply due to
Speaker 1: the novelty of seeing someone in costume on a day
Speaker 1: other than Halloween, but hey, we're in New York City.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that people commenting have seen stranger sites than us.
Speaker 1: Keep up the good work, and I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: your response and analysis of the men's rights movement, even
Speaker 1: though I'm sure it will be infuriating. Thank you for
Speaker 1: your letter and your request. Vanessa, Well, I've got a
Speaker 1: letter here from Amy, also in response to her episode
Speaker 1: on cosplay, and Amy is a Civil War reenactor, and
Speaker 1: she writes, I found it very interesting and was curious
Speaker 1: as to whether you came across anything in your research
Speaker 1: comparing or disassociating norms and trends and cosplay from historical reenacting.
Speaker 1: Some topics were very familiar in terms of accuracy of
Speaker 1: the costumes, dressing as the opposite sex or gender, and
Speaker 1: attitudes toward women in costumes. And she goes on to
Speaker 1: talk about how there are mainly three camps, so to speak,
Speaker 1: in the re enacting world of mainstreamers, campaigners, and hard cores,
Speaker 1: and she says mainstreamers like to put on a good show,
Speaker 1: campaigners like to educate through living history, and hard cores
Speaker 1: have a tendency to play by themselves. Obviously, these are
Speaker 1: sweeping generalizations, but within these you do get into hang ups,
Speaker 1: if you will. Regarding the legitimacy of women wanting to
Speaker 1: portray men, it rarely goes the other way, and the
Speaker 1: accurate portrayal of minorities, mainly African Americans admittedly agentistic with
Speaker 1: a campaigner crowd, so we will try to have a
Speaker 1: healthy attitude towards anyone wanting to participate without being too discouraging.
Speaker 1: During the Civil War there were limited roles for women,
Speaker 1: such as nurses and vivandiers at the front lines, so
Speaker 1: usually women tend to go with a civilian portrayals such
Speaker 1: as a family following as cooks or laundress in the
Speaker 1: wagon trail refugees, camp followers, or an entire side impression
Speaker 1: of the home front. There's documentation of women disguised as
Speaker 1: men and their ranks I believe up four hundred, but
Speaker 1: they really had to sell it with short hair and
Speaker 1: a boyish figure, so it does look odd to see
Speaker 1: a voluptuous one with a ponytail marching in the front
Speaker 1: line of an infantry. I've seen some hardcoes really come
Speaker 1: down on some women for this. In terms of minority portrayals, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, they're in the minority, and understandably so.
Speaker 1: Not many people of color would want to portray a
Speaker 1: time in which they were considered less than those around them.
Speaker 1: I've met to people who portrayed African Americans and various
Speaker 1: roles from slave to freedmen very well. Their argument for
Speaker 1: participating in the hobby is not to glorify the actions
Speaker 1: of white men in the past, but to educate everyone
Speaker 1: about the realities of what minorities went through. They admit
Speaker 1: that there have been awkward moments, but for the most
Speaker 1: part their portrayals have not only been enlightening to the
Speaker 1: spectating public but to their fellow re enactors. Obviously, there
Speaker 1: are many things that could be delved into with a
Speaker 1: topic like this, especially if you explore other time periods
Speaker 1: which I'm not familiar with. Thanks for everything you do,
Speaker 1: and thanks to you Amy for writing in, and thanks
Speaker 1: to everybody who's written into us mom stuff at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is our email address and for
Speaker 1: links to all of our social media's as well as
Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including our podcast
Speaker 1: sources so you can follow along with us. There's one
Speaker 1: place to go, and it's stuff Mom Never Told You
Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics.
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com.