Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm editor Candid Gibson, joined by step writer Jane McGrath.
Speaker 1: Hey there, candas Jane. Have you ever wanted to go
Speaker 1: out and search for very treasure? Yeah? When I was
Speaker 1: a kid, definitely detector. No I didn't find any. Were
Speaker 1: you one of those cool people on the beach with
Speaker 1: the thin oxide from the detect that's even less cool
Speaker 1: that you wanted to be one of those people. I
Speaker 1: still kind of feel sad when I see these people
Speaker 1: even today. I feel like that was a fad and
Speaker 1: it shall have passed. I mean, searching on the beach
Speaker 1: for shark teeth will never be uncool or ever go
Speaker 1: out of style. But it's the metal detector. Although I
Speaker 1: don't know with a recession now, people might be that
Speaker 1: hardhead up. That's true, we'll save. But the coolest thing
Speaker 1: about searching for buried treasure is the prospect of keeping
Speaker 1: what you find. But right now there's actually a scandal
Speaker 1: with very treasure being waged in the world, and the
Speaker 1: question on everyone's minds is if you have an ethical
Speaker 1: obligation to return it and you don't who's going to
Speaker 1: make you. That's true, and it gets into the question
Speaker 1: of international diplomacy and laws, especially when it when it
Speaker 1: comes to things like past wars and heinous crimes that
Speaker 1: have been done in order to obtain the treasure. And
Speaker 1: we know from the Geneva Convention that if you take
Speaker 1: something valuable from a nation, that's a cultural artifact or
Speaker 1: something of great monetary worth, you have to return it.
Speaker 1: It's written there in black and white. But when you
Speaker 1: take something from individuals, it's a little bit stickier because
Speaker 1: then who does the restitution power fall to the country
Speaker 1: in which the treasure is discovered, the people to whom
Speaker 1: it is owed. And to be a little bit less vague,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about specifically is Nazi gold. And this
Speaker 1: is a really cool story I actually didn't know about
Speaker 1: until recently, about how um if you remember or back
Speaker 1: in history class, uh Germany UM, right before World War Two,
Speaker 1: was actually suffering from a depression. They their economy was
Speaker 1: not doing very well, and so in order to fund
Speaker 1: their plans for war, obviously they wanted to invade Poland
Speaker 1: and everywhere else. They needed money to do this. They
Speaker 1: actually ended up plundering the gold supply of of other countries.
Speaker 1: They took about four hundred million from nations proper and
Speaker 1: one hundred forty million in gold from individuals. And to
Speaker 1: make matters worse, the gold they got from individuals was
Speaker 1: primarily from Jewish people who had been sent to concentration camp,
Speaker 1: so they got into their safety deposit boxes their homes,
Speaker 1: and even at the camps themselves, they would go into
Speaker 1: their mouths and take gold fillings from their teeth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really horrifying to hear the stories of people watching.
Speaker 1: They remember people Nazis uh ordering that they take the
Speaker 1: gold fillings out, or taking them out after after death
Speaker 1: and crying them out. It's really yeah. So for a
Speaker 1: time this gold was stored in the Reich Bank, which
Speaker 1: was the storage bank of the Third Reich. Then in
Speaker 1: there was a bombing raid and the Nazi decided that
Speaker 1: it wasn't safe there anymore, so they moved it to
Speaker 1: a potassium mine about two miles from Berlin. That's right,
Speaker 1: And this wasn't too hard to find they did. They
Speaker 1: did try to hide it very well, but um Americans
Speaker 1: were able to find out where it was and relatively
Speaker 1: quickly recovered. And this was part of an operation called
Speaker 1: Operations Sunset, and I think that's when Hitler realized, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna lose the war. Let's take all
Speaker 1: of our valuable art and gold and money and stash it.
Speaker 1: They did, and the German Alps. But when we the
Speaker 1: Allies at least found this gold um, we eventually realized
Speaker 1: that it wasn't all of it. A lot of it
Speaker 1: was still missing, and even to this day it still is.
Speaker 1: And not just the gold from individuals and not just
Speaker 1: the gold from different nations treasuries than perhaps missed famously
Speaker 1: the Amber Room, which, for those of you who aren't familiar,
Speaker 1: this was a room from Russia's Catherine Palace and it
Speaker 1: was just beautiful. It was called the Eighth Wonder of
Speaker 1: the World. It was solid gold panels and they were
Speaker 1: elaborately carved with filigree and just gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, and
Speaker 1: Germany came in and took them and they were last
Speaker 1: seen in an art exhibition, and then they vanished for
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes. And some people think that the
Speaker 1: Allied bombs ultimately destroyed them, but some people think that
Speaker 1: you can still find the Amber Room somewhere, and this
Speaker 1: is the case with the Amber Room, would be very
Speaker 1: clear cut. If it were actually found today, it would
Speaker 1: go to um Russia because it counts as a cultural
Speaker 1: artifact basically as per the Geneva Convention. But as for
Speaker 1: the individual gold, that's what's up for grabs. And there's
Speaker 1: a couple of key players who came about really recently,
Speaker 1: as recently as February two thousand eight, because just prior
Speaker 1: eight years prior, rather in two thousand some German treasure
Speaker 1: hunters that that they had found the gold and the
Speaker 1: German Alps, but because the terrain is so rocky and
Speaker 1: rough there, they couldn't get their hands on it, that's right,
Speaker 1: and they just gave up because it was much too hard. Well,
Speaker 1: enter the mirror of this little bity town called Deutsch Noydoff,
Speaker 1: and his name is Heinz Peter Haustein, and he thought
Speaker 1: that he knew where he could get his hands on
Speaker 1: the gold. That's where he thought it was, in a
Speaker 1: nearby area known as Deutge Catherineenberg and um So in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, actually the excitement got to a
Speaker 1: fever pitch because this other fellow um named Christian Heinisch.
Speaker 1: I believe it's pronounced um. He was the son of
Speaker 1: a German soldier and he found his father's journal and
Speaker 1: he believes that it indicates where the gold is, and
Speaker 1: that's where you know, that's where they believe it is.
Speaker 1: He went Hunish went so far as to say that
Speaker 1: they were actual coordinates and his father's journal that pointed
Speaker 1: him to the same spot. So you have to imagine
Speaker 1: the favor pitch because here's the mayor uh Haustein and
Speaker 1: here's this other guy, Hannish, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: they're both in the same place pointing for gold, and
Speaker 1: they say it's there, So we assume that it really
Speaker 1: must be there. So they hire the help of some
Speaker 1: geophysicists depend point exactly where it is because they know
Speaker 1: that it could very well be booby trapped by the Nazis,
Speaker 1: and they get an electromagnetic metal detector, probably more powerful
Speaker 1: than the ones on the beach from well, I mean,
Speaker 1: now we're sad than mine and when the money, when
Speaker 1: the economy gets really rough. But they think that the
Speaker 1: gold is about sixty ft below the mountains East German
Speaker 1: mountain side, and they started digging, but then they stopped,
Speaker 1: that's right, and they actually they believe they are about
Speaker 1: two tons there. So the question is like, why did
Speaker 1: they stop And the answer is, um, because they believe
Speaker 1: it's actually booby tripped. I mean, they knew. The Nazis
Speaker 1: were not dumb, and Um, it's quite possible that they
Speaker 1: could have left explosives where they hid the gold. If so,
Speaker 1: if they weren't careful when they start digging, um, you know,
Speaker 1: some disaster could happen. So at what expense go after
Speaker 1: this gold? And that's actually a very complicated answer, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw some numbers at you, guys. Um, since
Speaker 1: ninety six, the gold has been recovered from the Nazis
Speaker 1: hiding places, has been redistributed to the countries from him
Speaker 1: it was taken. And then there's this commission called the
Speaker 1: Triparteche Commission. This is Britain, France and the United States
Speaker 1: and they're the ones dolling it out and making sure
Speaker 1: that it goes to the countries that lost it and
Speaker 1: more specifically, hopefully eventually to the individuals from him it
Speaker 1: was taken, or at least their descendants exactly. But there's
Speaker 1: five and a half tons that haven't yet been returned.
Speaker 1: And here's where things start to get fishy. The archives
Speaker 1: of this commission have been closed and the Vaticans have
Speaker 1: to so we're not really sure what's going on with
Speaker 1: this gold. And there's accusations that maybe the Vatican was
Speaker 1: laundering gold that was stolen by Croatia. And there's some
Speaker 1: countries for sure that are refusing to return gold that
Speaker 1: they have. And here is where it gets really really
Speaker 1: dark and twisted. Switzerland, which for all intents and purposes
Speaker 1: we've always heard was a neutral country, has been accused
Speaker 1: of playing a really really menacing role in all of this.
Speaker 1: That's right, And like speaking of treasure hunting, I mean
Speaker 1: since world we're two, actually plenty of people have been
Speaker 1: doing hunting in Swiss banks. If you can imagine, Um,
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of the Nazi gold ended up.
Speaker 1: And to explain why, um Hitler when he first plundered
Speaker 1: this gold, he needed to be able to turn it
Speaker 1: into usable currency. And uh so he actually chose Swiss
Speaker 1: banks to do this in because they had very secure laws,
Speaker 1: like secrecy laws, and and they were a neutral country
Speaker 1: and they promised, you know, very secure money. So he
Speaker 1: exchanged his gold for for their currency, and that's why
Speaker 1: he was able to fund a lot of his a
Speaker 1: lot of his military maneuvers. So basically one stack. Once
Speaker 1: that UM says that they shipped six billion dollars into
Speaker 1: the end UH sixty billion in today's money actually in
Speaker 1: assets through Switzerland, and UH. It kind of calls into
Speaker 1: question how neutral Switzerland was in the war, if they
Speaker 1: were able to comply with the Nazis so much. There's
Speaker 1: even talk that Switzerland agreed to a few things in return,
Speaker 1: such as agreeing not to give Jews refuge when they
Speaker 1: were fleeing from the Nanties and letting trains full of
Speaker 1: Jews going to concentration camps through Switzerland, and that, as
Speaker 1: far as I know, is is up for debate. I
Speaker 1: don't think scholars are really sure whether these trains carrying
Speaker 1: prisoners to concentration camps passed through. But we do know
Speaker 1: for a fact the trains taking people to slave labor
Speaker 1: camps for the Germans, those definitely went through, that's right,
Speaker 1: and so it's caused a lot of problems. Actually, one
Speaker 1: interesting development is that investigations into some Swiss coins have
Speaker 1: actually found some evidence of mercury in them, and it's
Speaker 1: really interesting because this suggests possibly that that gold actually
Speaker 1: came originally from the fillings from some of the Jews
Speaker 1: and the concentration camps. If you remember Candice mentioned UH
Speaker 1: that they stole fillings from the Jews teeth and that
Speaker 1: in Soviet a presence of mercury would suggest that that's
Speaker 1: originally where the gold came from. It's just so wild
Speaker 1: to think about. And of course we have people today
Speaker 1: who are saying that ultimately who needs restitution are the
Speaker 1: um the families of Holocaust victims or the Holocaust survivors.
Speaker 1: Their families are due restitution for this, and by the
Speaker 1: Swiss at least agreed to UH one point to five
Speaker 1: I think billion dollars in reparations for Jewish survivors and descendants.
Speaker 1: And then Washington actually held a conference on Holocaust era assets.
Speaker 1: And it's not just gold, it's art, it's silver, it's
Speaker 1: other forms of wealth that's missing. And I think that
Speaker 1: they've tried to put a ballpark number on this anywhere
Speaker 1: from seventy million, of which less than twenty million has
Speaker 1: been recovered, and that doesn't necessarily mean returned, it means recovered.
Speaker 1: And the nations in which this gold and wealth is
Speaker 1: sometimes found are hesitant to redistribute it because they're not
Speaker 1: sure what parties should go to, or they're not quite
Speaker 1: true how to manage it. But something that really struck
Speaker 1: me as powerful when I was reading about Nazi Golden
Speaker 1: reparations Ben Meade, who was a Holocaust survivor advocate and
Speaker 1: who actually form the Alliance of Jewish Holocaust Survivors. He
Speaker 1: said about the Holocaust and about the situation not too
Speaker 1: gold that the biggest murder of the century was also
Speaker 1: the biggest robbery in history. It's true considering, and it
Speaker 1: really is. And I've never thought about it like that before,
Speaker 1: because you know, you think about these German treasure hunters
Speaker 1: and it seems very Indiana Jones to an extent. But
Speaker 1: then you think that in the end, all this money,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a moot point. Who gets to
Speaker 1: keep it? To me, it seems that it should go,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of reparations families. But we shall,
Speaker 1: we shall have to hang on and see what happens.
Speaker 1: And we know that as of late February how Stein
Speaker 1: told Hanish to get out of dortsch Off, so they
Speaker 1: had a little you know, about where to dig. How
Speaker 1: much further to dig. So to date, if the gold
Speaker 1: really is there in the Amber room too, it hasn't
Speaker 1: been recovered, so we'll have to I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: going to go digging, considering there might be movie trips
Speaker 1: now and there is a love replica of the Amber rooms.
Speaker 1: Or even if it's not the real thing, you can
Speaker 1: you can still see you know what it would have
Speaker 1: looked like, and whether or not it exists is a
Speaker 1: mystery for the ancients or for the next brave adventurer.
Speaker 1: So if you want to learn more about World War Two,
Speaker 1: the Nazis and the Allied forces, you can read can
Speaker 1: Treasure Hunters have Discovered Nazi Gold on how staff works
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