Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm editor Candice Gibson, joined today by a special guest,
Speaker 1: Jane McGrath. I, Candice, thanks for having me, of course,
Speaker 1: welcome to Factor Fiction. Thank you. If you are anything
Speaker 1: like me, you've been completely bombarded with news of the election.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely the question on people's minds who will
Speaker 1: be the next president of the United States. I think
Speaker 1: the acronym for that is potus. But I'm curious to
Speaker 1: know who is going to be the next first Lady
Speaker 1: of the United States or the flutists. So and when
Speaker 1: you talk about first lady, I'm sure there are several
Speaker 1: names that come to mind for me, at least I
Speaker 1: think of Jackie Oh oh, definitely, or Elinor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even going back to like Martha Washington and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: the first first lady. And you know, when Martha was
Speaker 1: first Lady, the title first Lady hadn't even been thought of.
Speaker 1: She was called Lady Washington. And it wasn't until Zachary
Speaker 1: Taylor delivered a eulogy for Dolly Madison that anyone used
Speaker 1: the term first Lady. I think he called her our
Speaker 1: first Lady of the United States, and then the term
Speaker 1: didn't stick until eighteen sixty one when it was applied
Speaker 1: to Mary Todd Lincoln, and then websters picked it up
Speaker 1: a little while later it was in the dictionary. It
Speaker 1: became official. But until then people had tossed around words
Speaker 1: like Mrs President or just lady, or don't have the
Speaker 1: same ring. No, it doesn't have like the same cashet
Speaker 1: as First Lady, and a couple of zingers were thrown
Speaker 1: in there, like her majesty, and that was a real
Speaker 1: insult if a first lety know, it doesn't seem right
Speaker 1: for America. No, they were trying to break from the monarchy.
Speaker 1: But First Lady was tricky for Washington because she had
Speaker 1: no idea how the office was supposed to go. And
Speaker 1: I think all the first ladies in that era, the
Speaker 1: first era of first Ladies about seventeen eighty nine eighteen
Speaker 1: seventeen UM. There's just Buck by Robert P. Watson, all
Speaker 1: about the First Lady and he defines these eras and
Speaker 1: he calls that one the era of queenly first ladies.
Speaker 1: That makes sense because they're very matronly and reserved and
Speaker 1: they stay in the background, thank you. It's like they're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what is the United States? How
Speaker 1: do I fit in? But then after the queenly first ladies,
Speaker 1: we have an era of about eighteen seventeen eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine that Watson calls the era of common first ladies
Speaker 1: or idle first ladies. Yeah, and that makes sense because
Speaker 1: the I guess the presidents elected during that time became
Speaker 1: more common men presidents, and so their ladies sort of
Speaker 1: followed suit, and they were the same way exactly, not
Speaker 1: as regal, more plain folk if you would. Eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine nineteen o one, this matches up with the Gilded
Speaker 1: Age in America and suffrage started becoming a bigger deal.
Speaker 1: First ladies themselves were a little bit more active, and
Speaker 1: they came into the office really well educated, usually with
Speaker 1: some pretty nice talents to their names. And then right
Speaker 1: around the turn of the century and after that we
Speaker 1: have the first modern first lady. And that makes sense
Speaker 1: because the president by the time was able to openly
Speaker 1: condone suffrage, and the president and first lady were were
Speaker 1: able to together be behind the particular political movement that
Speaker 1: struck close to home. Yeah, they were co campaign ors,
Speaker 1: almost exactly partners, per say, but they were definitely in
Speaker 1: that position together. And around nineteen was the era of
Speaker 1: media buzz, and the First Family was the subject of
Speaker 1: newspapers and the camera lens and they were everywhere. And
Speaker 1: so we get later towards that era and television comes
Speaker 1: into play. That especially had a big effect, and we
Speaker 1: see first ladies starting to become a little bit more
Speaker 1: conventional again, because I think on the whole, that's what
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans wanted to see. And then nineteen
Speaker 1: until the present day, we have the totally modern first Lady,
Speaker 1: and she is the president's partner at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she becomes much more politically active and of herself, not
Speaker 1: even as a coca and painter, just by herself, would
Speaker 1: you say that's true? Yeah, And that raises an interesting question,
Speaker 1: and that is what is the first Lady supposed to do?
Speaker 1: That's a good question because a lot of it depends
Speaker 1: a first lady sort of defines her own role, and
Speaker 1: it depends on her personality a lot, whether she wants
Speaker 1: to be active or whether she wants to be in
Speaker 1: the background. And especially because the first Lady the office
Speaker 1: of First Lady isn't um listed in the Constitution by
Speaker 1: any rights. So, uh, it's an odd role in that
Speaker 1: she can define it herself. And we call it extra
Speaker 1: constitutional because the only way she can come into the
Speaker 1: office the first Lady is by marrying the man who
Speaker 1: is elected president. And so that right there sort of
Speaker 1: implies that she has to be a wife and a
Speaker 1: mother or a grandmother. Um, I think that Pete would
Speaker 1: like to see her represent some aspect of the American family.
Speaker 1: She has to be a campaigner, like we've already said,
Speaker 1: she has to be a hostess at the White House.
Speaker 1: She has to serve the tease and the state dinners
Speaker 1: and receive guests. She has to continue a line of traditions, um,
Speaker 1: the Easter egg roll, the lighting of the Christmas tree,
Speaker 1: things like this that people look to, you know, just
Speaker 1: for a little bit of amusement. Washington can be very
Speaker 1: heavy sometime, so we like to see a lot of
Speaker 1: children on the White House lawn. It just it makes
Speaker 1: us happy, or at least me, And more recently now
Speaker 1: than in the past, we see the First Lady coming
Speaker 1: in with a platform, and it could be anything from
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan's just say No anti drug campaign to Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton advocating for child's welfare, or um Laura Bush, who
Speaker 1: is a big advocate of literacy, for instance. That's true,
Speaker 1: And I was I was pondering something about this podcast.
Speaker 1: Do you think the political parties matter is the role
Speaker 1: of the first lady? Gosh, when I asked you to
Speaker 1: be my special guest, I didn't know it's going to
Speaker 1: be such a hard factory questions. Gosh, that's tough saying.
Speaker 1: If we really want to look at it in terms
Speaker 1: of Democratic first ladies US Republican first ladies, and speak
Speaker 1: in very general terms, I would say the Democratic ones
Speaker 1: who for me at least that means eleanor Roosevelt, for instance,
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. We see them much more politically active. They
Speaker 1: attend congressional hearings, They help to propose new policies, They
Speaker 1: advise their husbands. They really are partners, whereas Republican first ladies,
Speaker 1: again a generalization, are more partners in marriage. They tend
Speaker 1: to fulfill more traditional roles, you know, being the wife,
Speaker 1: supporting the husband and the decisions that he has to make.
Speaker 1: We look at someone like Barbara Bush, for instance, and
Speaker 1: I think that it was pretty obvious that she didn't
Speaker 1: relish all of the responsibilities that came along with being
Speaker 1: for lady, but she fulfilled them, and she was better
Speaker 1: at the hostessing side, and I think she enjoyed that
Speaker 1: aspect more than policy making. Yeah, I think that correlates
Speaker 1: a bit too political philosophies in a way, Like you
Speaker 1: look at Democrats who typically tend to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more liberal and uh see a more active role
Speaker 1: of the federal government, whereas Republicans um as a countrary,
Speaker 1: they they're they tend to be more conservative and like
Speaker 1: the federal government to take less of a role. So
Speaker 1: it sort of correlates to the First Lady as well.
Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting, definitely, And the First Lady, like the
Speaker 1: Presidency itself, is an office that is not without its scandals.
Speaker 1: And if we were broke back, I mean, we could
Speaker 1: look as far back as a couple hundred years ago
Speaker 1: or even a few years ago and and see what
Speaker 1: has been brewing in the East Wing, which is where
Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt set up the first First Lady's office. Um,
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, Hillary Clinton actually requested that the First Lady's
Speaker 1: Office be moved to the West wing. Even more involved,
Speaker 1: even more involved so that she would have closer proximity
Speaker 1: to the Oval office. Again, we have a very tight
Speaker 1: partnership that we see in that relationship between president and
Speaker 1: first lady. But like I said, there's all sorts of
Speaker 1: scandals that come with trying to define an extra constitutional office.
Speaker 1: And I know that you had a few favorite examples
Speaker 1: in history of some first ladies who will drop your
Speaker 1: jaw really Yeah, Well, one big scandal um that I
Speaker 1: found interesting was one concerning Rachel Jackson. Uh. It's pretty
Speaker 1: interesting because Rachel, you know, she came started from the
Speaker 1: backwoodwoods country, and um, when she was young, she married
Speaker 1: this one guy named Lewis Robarts, and from the beginning
Speaker 1: it was a pretty rocky marriage, Like he was apparently
Speaker 1: of the jealous type, and uh, they soon split up.
Speaker 1: Things didn't work out for them, and a couple of
Speaker 1: years later, Rachel heard that Robards got to follow a
Speaker 1: divorce and she was a free woman, so she uh
Speaker 1: in the meantime, had met this gallant lady named Andrew
Speaker 1: Jackson and she was ready to marry him. So she
Speaker 1: did that, only to find out two years later that
Speaker 1: the Robarts did not actually get a divorce and they
Speaker 1: did Um, you can imagine what his political opponents would say.
Speaker 1: And he actually ended up getting into a few duels
Speaker 1: um as a result of um of accusations about the
Speaker 1: scandals with Rachel. And she was actually an unlikely center
Speaker 1: of this drama because as a woman, she was she
Speaker 1: was rather portly woman, let's say. Uh, and she smoked
Speaker 1: a pipe and a cigar actually, which was coming in
Speaker 1: where she came from, but not so much in the
Speaker 1: Washington political elite. Uh So she was not really a
Speaker 1: big fan of becoming a first lady. And uh, all
Speaker 1: the while during the presidential campaign she was getting maligned.
Speaker 1: Uh and so actually she died right before she got
Speaker 1: a chance to enter the White House. Yeah, and Jackson
Speaker 1: always blamed her death on the media attacks. And you know,
Speaker 1: there aren't enough duels today. You don't see a lot
Speaker 1: of people going after the challenging them to duels. I
Speaker 1: think it was what Hugh Grant, I think through a
Speaker 1: soup can or something simpafarazzi a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's great, challenge people to duels when they
Speaker 1: put you in a bad life. No, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: advocating that at all. Um. I imagine it's really hard
Speaker 1: to be constantly in the presses. I like that. Even
Speaker 1: this past year when um Jenna Bush was planning her wedding,
Speaker 1: it was in newspapers, it was on entertainment shows, it
Speaker 1: was on news shows. You know, the white House wedding
Speaker 1: is a big to do, and she ended up not
Speaker 1: even having a white House wedding because she wanted some
Speaker 1: you know, smige in privacy to this special day. But
Speaker 1: you can't really have that privacy when you're in the
Speaker 1: first family because your life becomes a public spectacle. And
Speaker 1: in that regard, you have to tolerate all sorts of
Speaker 1: jabs that are throwing your way. And one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things that someone has said in regards to this
Speaker 1: bad press actually came from Hillary. She was actually quoted
Speaker 1: as saying, I read stories and hear things about me,
Speaker 1: and I go, I wouldn't like her either. And I think,
Speaker 1: what a great attitude have, because you really would have
Speaker 1: to let things roll off your back, especially when people
Speaker 1: are saying you're taking too much power or you're not
Speaker 1: you're not taking enough, you're sitting by idol. And that
Speaker 1: was a criticism that befell Mary Todd Lincoln back when
Speaker 1: she was in the White House. Of course, during you know,
Speaker 1: the midst of the Civil War, she became really unpopular.
Speaker 1: For one, because she was spending a lot of money.
Speaker 1: She did this as a way to offset some depression
Speaker 1: that came from the death of one of her sons.
Speaker 1: And she also had relations in the fighting for the
Speaker 1: Cells I believe in the Civil War. Yeah, because her
Speaker 1: husband obviously was advocating for the Union, and then she
Speaker 1: had family who was fighting for the Confederacy. So she
Speaker 1: was a woman torn into and the press ripped her apart.
Speaker 1: You know, she was a Kentucky Southern bell who happened
Speaker 1: to marry a man who became the President of the
Speaker 1: United States, and she may not have been prepared for
Speaker 1: that position. I think she thought that Washington was going
Speaker 1: to be all parties and balls, and during the Civil
Speaker 1: War it was not, most definitely, and she would get
Speaker 1: terrible migraines and fits of panic. And you know, I
Speaker 1: wish I could have been there to see this. But
Speaker 1: apparently even if Lincoln were presenting a speech somewhere or
Speaker 1: at a rally where he was speaking, if Ray not Rachel,
Speaker 1: excuse me, if Mary Todd were taken over by illness,
Speaker 1: everything would stop and it was about her suddenly, you know,
Speaker 1: never mind the fact that people are dying on battle
Speaker 1: and this is actually something that people in America said
Speaker 1: to her. You know, she was grieving the loss of
Speaker 1: her child, and they're saying, our sons are dying on battlefields.
Speaker 1: At least you have to be at your son's side
Speaker 1: when he died. But the attention was about her, and
Speaker 1: people were not happy about it. So all sorts of
Speaker 1: crazy first lady scandals out there, but I think that
Speaker 1: a lot remains to be seen in the upcoming years
Speaker 1: as the next UM president is chosen and by virtue
Speaker 1: of that, the next first lady. So it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: It is depending on, you know, what her her platform
Speaker 1: will be, how still approached the office. It's a wide
Speaker 1: open book. And we're actually going to revere Yell Jane's
Speaker 1: presidential namesake. That's right. Uh, it's madisone. My middle name
Speaker 1: is Madison Jane Madison McGrath, and my dad was a
Speaker 1: big constitution. Both for those of you keeping score minus,
Speaker 1: Candice may give two great names and for to plus
Speaker 1: like a million more interesting topics. Visit how Stuff Work
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other
Speaker 1: topics esit how stuff works dot com. Let us know
Speaker 1: what you think. Send an email to podcast at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.