Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm Correnn. We're sorry about last night the anti slut
Speaker 1: shaming podcast. I never stopped. Hey everyone, welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Guys We Fucked. It's the anti slut shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Karen, I'm Christina, and we're in New York City
Speaker 1: right now. But if you are in l A, San
Speaker 1: Diego or Miami and you need a rental car, we
Speaker 1: wanted to tell you about Skirt. It's only available in
Speaker 1: those two cities as of now, but it's an app
Speaker 1: that you download on your phone. S k u RT
Speaker 1: Karna and I use this every time we go to
Speaker 1: l A. We've driven in fucking Mustangs and Mercedes. Made
Speaker 1: me feel like a rich person. Never felt cooler, honestly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've smoked everyone at lights, even when they weren't even
Speaker 1: trying to race me. Don't you didn't hear that? Skirt
Speaker 1: um uh? The car. The car gets delivered to your
Speaker 1: door and there is cheap as twenty one dollars a day.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be twenty one years old or
Speaker 1: you have to be You only have to be years old.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be twenty five, which is the
Speaker 1: normal age most companies required. You only have to be
Speaker 1: twenty one. And you don't need a credit card, which
Speaker 1: is exciting for me because I don't have one. There's
Speaker 1: no gas markup fees, and you only pay the market
Speaker 1: price at the pump. And if you guys are in
Speaker 1: l A, San Diego or Miami, you can get thirty
Speaker 1: dollars off your first skirtbooking, which is basically a free
Speaker 1: car for a day if you use the promo co
Speaker 1: GWF when you check out. This company could not make
Speaker 1: renting a car easier. It's incredible. We we we went
Speaker 1: to our our airbnb when we got to l A
Speaker 1: this last trip, and then some nice gentleman just fucking
Speaker 1: delivered the Mercedes to us. Yeah. Everyone's like like cute
Speaker 1: and the cars are all nice. Yeah, there's like no,
Speaker 1: it's not like they're gonna send you some like compact car,
Speaker 1: Like it's everything is like top of the line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you get variations. You can get like a fan SASCAR.
Speaker 1: It's the categories labeled something different on the app. Fancy astcar,
Speaker 1: little asscar, medium ass car, whatever works for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we just want to let you know that is
Speaker 1: a good option for car rentals in those cities. They're
Speaker 1: fucking shout out to skirt Man. Happy holidays. Are you
Speaker 1: enjoying this holiday season, Karin? I am. You know, I realized,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why wouldn't I. I love the holidays. I'm
Speaker 1: so stressed. I'm obsessed with holidays. Yeah, I love Christmas. No,
Speaker 1: I felt like this was great because like, this is
Speaker 1: the last thing that we need to do until Christmas.
Speaker 1: So I felt like I was like heading into my
Speaker 1: last day of school. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm and I get to see my brother um. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all good. Uncles get to drink with family. There's
Speaker 1: like no alcohol on my holidays. Alcohol in silence, but
Speaker 1: my feeling doesn't drink really, Like my grandparents will have
Speaker 1: a glass of wine. But other than that, we're not
Speaker 1: a drinking family. My parents only drink on Christmas, like
Speaker 1: in the holiday when we have uncle's come in town.
Speaker 1: My mom texts me, going, your dad's already drunk with
Speaker 1: your uncle Craig l o L. Good for him. I've
Speaker 1: never drinks. I don't think I've ever seen either of
Speaker 1: my parents drunk. Actually, my dad six maybe six, so
Speaker 1: it takes so much. And my mom, I mean, she
Speaker 1: probably hasn't been drunk and she was a teenager. My
Speaker 1: mom used to drink wine with my grandpa when he
Speaker 1: was still alive. And they had a karaoke machine when
Speaker 1: I was in high school and she would just sing
Speaker 1: karaoke until like two am. And I would scream at her, like, mom,
Speaker 1: trying to go to bed, but you love karaoke. I know.
Speaker 1: I feel like a real asshole. I gotta apologize. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. I was like, in fact, we did it.
Speaker 1: We say it this weekend. Yeah, oh yeah, we did
Speaker 1: that was fun. Yeah. Um, I had a personal what
Speaker 1: I was I gonna talk about? Oh this is so stupid.
Speaker 1: But you know when like you want to use your girl,
Speaker 1: your your girl needs to get shipped, you know, like
Speaker 1: to get to get a free drink at a ball
Speaker 1: of course womanly ways. I do it all the time
Speaker 1: me too. I'm not I'm not not proud of it.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I do it. You got to use
Speaker 1: the tools the good Lord gave you. It was all
Speaker 1: my way in your comedy club. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm so tired, I've been staring at my computer all day.
Speaker 1: I need to go to Starbucks. I want to get
Speaker 1: like a nice Americano. Because I knew the Starbucks by
Speaker 1: me is open till eleven. It was, and one of
Speaker 1: the doors store the whitest fucking just puts a build
Speaker 1: up My answer, I wouldn't even know what Americana was
Speaker 1: if it weren't for you, um water down espresso anyway, um.
Speaker 1: One of the doors was closed the Starbucks. I was like,
Speaker 1: this isn't right. And I went to the other door
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, thank god, I need my coffee.
Speaker 1: In my head, I was like, and then these people
Speaker 1: before me were like, oh, can we order blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: And the person at the cash register was like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: we're we have to get everyone out. We're closing soon.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that is bullshit in my head.
Speaker 1: So I go up to the guy because he goes
Speaker 1: to lock the other door, like leaves a register, and
Speaker 1: then I go up and I'm like, hey, can I
Speaker 1: just get an Americano like real quick, like a nice Americano.
Speaker 1: And he was and he looked and he's like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure sure, and he looked like he had a pee
Speaker 1: really bad. And then I was like, are you okay?
Speaker 1: Are you feeling okay? He goes, no, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: My appendix person, I'm the only person in the Storebucks
Speaker 1: with the key, so I have to get everybody out
Speaker 1: before you go to the hospital. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: did you get that Americano? Yeah, all right, and I
Speaker 1: was like, everybody out. He has to go to the hospital.
Speaker 1: And wow, what a bitch am I. I was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was the reason. I just thought,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was like at the time. At
Speaker 1: the same time, the most selfless and selfish yep move
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. Yeah, I'm comfortable with opposites now, thanks
Speaker 1: k Wolf. Opposite states of mind. Yeah. I felt so
Speaker 1: bad and then people can co exist, Yeah they can.
Speaker 1: Thanks ka Wolf for my healing. And when I was
Speaker 1: waiting for my Americano, people started coming in, I'm like,
Speaker 1: he we're closing soon. You gotta get out. You were closed,
Speaker 1: there's not They're not open. So I just came a
Speaker 1: yelling woman in a jacket. I felt so bad. I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't believe I used my breasts to
Speaker 1: maneuver in a last Americano could even see them. What
Speaker 1: in winter your boobs or oh you left that part out?
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. I was like, wincher carts coats
Speaker 1: are very winter makes it difficult to use your womanly ways.
Speaker 1: No one is sexy walking around in the winter. Now,
Speaker 1: Well that's why I always trying to get like a
Speaker 1: really cute coat because it's not like it's not I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone's gonna be like, wow, I can see
Speaker 1: her figure under there, but you can see my style.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And you're like, I like that
Speaker 1: style sexy. It's like Carrie Bradshaw, Like she wasn't really
Speaker 1: that pretty, but she had a style that was like
Speaker 1: you couldn't be by the way. Speaking of Carrie Bradshaw,
Speaker 1: I tweeted about this, but I had I always like
Speaker 1: wanted to be Carrie Bradshaw when I was in high
Speaker 1: school because I learned about sex or sex and the
Speaker 1: city type in sex shit on my my fucking laptop
Speaker 1: last night and I my window opened. I was smoking
Speaker 1: a cigarette out the window in my underwear and a
Speaker 1: T shirt with my curly blonde hair, and I was like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, I am Carrie Bradshaw. I just had to
Speaker 1: say that, except she would never live in Murray Hill.
Speaker 1: I know once one more step. Yeah, that's the only
Speaker 1: element that I'm missing. You are you are You Are
Speaker 1: you Are Carrie. Carrie's apartment was really nice. I mean
Speaker 1: for what she did, but whatever. She was a writer, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I feel like she never got many jobs. She
Speaker 1: had her own column, yeah, but likes Yeah, that's true,
Speaker 1: but like I've never been on the side of it.
Speaker 1: She was just too busy bitched about men for her
Speaker 1: to talk about work. That was the whole show. Though.
Speaker 1: My mom was like she was like she actually pointed
Speaker 1: it out my mom. Every time I reviewed things that
Speaker 1: my mom did while raising us, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: really like very progressive, dude. My my brother had so
Speaker 1: many girl toys. Your mom. I never want to be
Speaker 1: on the podcast. She she can't because of her jaw. Okay, um, guys,
Speaker 1: come see us live Yes On Thursday, January five pm.
Speaker 1: This beautiful angel called Wendy Starling is having her birthday show.
Speaker 1: It's so It's Our Glamor Pus seven thirty pm, ZINC,
Speaker 1: Part thirty two West third Street. Wendy's Birthday Show. It's
Speaker 1: going to be crazy. Tickets are fifteen bucks. You have
Speaker 1: to be twenty one and over link is in the
Speaker 1: description of this podcast. And then on Friday January at
Speaker 1: eleven fifteen pm it is the first Nacho Bitches of
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen. You know, hopefully I'll be around still, um,
Speaker 1: you never know, you never know what I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm going skiing, so convenient steven one side snow tubing,
Speaker 1: tore shoulder off snow tubing like for children, Yes, children
Speaker 1: and donks can snow toube without injury. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm the strongest I've ever been physically, so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go for it. Because my mom would
Speaker 1: like to be careful and I was like, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm only getting older. I know, that's the thing. Knees
Speaker 1: Creek and hopefully you gotta cross your fingers before you
Speaker 1: go skiing, all right, And we are going back on tour.
Speaker 1: This is the second leg. I mean, this is like
Speaker 1: the half leg a k A. Two dates in Florida
Speaker 1: High If you're in Florida, can you come please? If
Speaker 1: you know anyone in Florida, even if you don't want
Speaker 1: to come, maybe buy it as a ticket, just buying
Speaker 1: a gift for someone that might not want it. Hankah
Speaker 1: and Christmas fall during the same time this year, so
Speaker 1: there's absolutely no excuses. Fort Lauderdale Wednesday, December throughout the improv.
Speaker 1: Next day Thursday, December twenty West Palm Beach we're also
Speaker 1: at the improv there. Please, I don't. They've got a
Speaker 1: lot of guys who fans apparently in West Palm Beach
Speaker 1: or Fort Lauderdale because they're all too busy on their boat.
Speaker 1: So you know. But it's a really fun show, okay,
Speaker 1: and we're going to challenge you to go outside your
Speaker 1: covert zone, so just you know, just come. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: show is Gonnam already. It's like every time Florida's brough up,
Speaker 1: I really try to get last mad at Florida, but
Speaker 1: then I get more mad this week of the news.
Speaker 1: Oh Man trying to fuck a snake. Bettys from Florida,
Speaker 1: but a Florida resident. I know it every time. I
Speaker 1: know what which it's tropical New Jersey. Um and uh,
Speaker 1: people always like apologize. I'm just like, don't apologize, just
Speaker 1: buy a ticket. I'll accept your apology in the form
Speaker 1: of a ticket twenty dollars please, please, guys, Okay. Also, wow,
Speaker 1: I don't where. I don't even know where to begin
Speaker 1: with this. There's so much information. Guys, you know it,
Speaker 1: you love it. You might not have used it, but
Speaker 1: you definitely googled it. Give it up for Squatty Potty. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sponsoring us. It only took
Speaker 1: a very long fight with our agents who sell ads
Speaker 1: for us. Um. I mean, what what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Guys experienced the benefits of healthy toilet posture. You didn't
Speaker 1: know that was a thing. Now you do and achieve
Speaker 1: perfect elimination all year round with the original Squatty Potty
Speaker 1: toilet stool. Then Christina ad l O L stool, which
Speaker 1: is the only thing I added, as the rest is
Speaker 1: completely they're copied. Uh. Squatty Potty is based on science.
Speaker 1: Oh that's all I need to go along with something,
Speaker 1: and it really works. You know, anything else is not
Speaker 1: based on science. This is based on site. That's very vague,
Speaker 1: but I do like it. Well, I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: God's not reaching up your asshole. So it's been recommended
Speaker 1: by doctors and health professionals worldwide. I mean that's a
Speaker 1: little vague, but I'll go with it. I was reading this,
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna put
Speaker 1: them on at sea where correct goes. Squatty potty helps.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even read this ahead of time. Professional
Speaker 1: squatty potty helps anyone who might suffer with constipation, hemorrhids
Speaker 1: and too much straining in the bathroom. Dude, I did
Speaker 1: that today. That is true. I want to say that
Speaker 1: as a young in I did visit a proctologist, and
Speaker 1: straining is very It was a traumatizing experience. I used
Speaker 1: to hold I don't know why I did this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I would like hold it
Speaker 1: and then we'll get to the point where it was
Speaker 1: like shifting out a dictionary. Sometimes I like to hold
Speaker 1: it to make sure, you know, just for the sake
Speaker 1: of time, to make sure that, like next, if we're going,
Speaker 1: I don't like to sit there like I like, so,
Speaker 1: I like to hold it until it's almost coming out
Speaker 1: and prairie dog in a day, Oh god, never prairie
Speaker 1: dog again. Squatting opens the colon and gives waste a
Speaker 1: straight shot at exiting the body. It's if. So basically,
Speaker 1: if you don't buy squatty potty, you're not giving your
Speaker 1: coal in a chance, all you know, deserve that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Complete elimination is very important to overall general health. And
Speaker 1: Squatty Potty affords that I don't even really know what
Speaker 1: that means. Well, they're using affords and not the not
Speaker 1: the typical way that we use it, but it is correct. Okay,
Speaker 1: good I got. I also just to ruin this, okay, um.
Speaker 1: Squatty Potty is the most successful company that has appeared
Speaker 1: on Shark Tank. They're really proud of that. I don't
Speaker 1: want to say that Shark Tank is the one show
Speaker 1: that I always flipped past, but it is, and as
Speaker 1: millions of fans, not Karen Fisher, and it's like, I'll
Speaker 1: watch anything. I'll watch the show where the gypsies are
Speaker 1: getting married and just mad at each other, like Shark Tank. What,
Speaker 1: I don't need a plot, h But I also don't
Speaker 1: need a Shark Tank. Squatty Potty has thousands of five
Speaker 1: star reviews on Amazon, and I know, when I'm looking
Speaker 1: to make a purchase about my health, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: does this thing bad on Amazon have to say? So?
Speaker 1: I mean like, but the thing is, it's like, have
Speaker 1: you ever even taken the time to write an Amazon review. No,
Speaker 1: but I do go by the number of stars, like
Speaker 1: if someone's if someone was like this thing sucked, and
Speaker 1: like eight people said it. I'm like, because only a
Speaker 1: mental case would leave an Amazon review, and it had
Speaker 1: to be really bad to do it. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you're so you've eliminated every thing, You're got more
Speaker 1: energy to write it. This copy gets even better. This
Speaker 1: is my next this is my favorite one. The New
Speaker 1: York Post says, I'm gonna stop you right there, squatty Potty.
Speaker 1: Isn't that the same publication that took a picture of
Speaker 1: a man who was about to get hit by a
Speaker 1: subway train? Yeah? I forgot about that. That haunts me
Speaker 1: every night. I I mean, I don't even know what's
Speaker 1: this I've I will never not be over that. I
Speaker 1: had a tough week and now I'm thinking about that.
Speaker 1: I watched the Jehan Benet lifetime. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: had trouble sleeping. Um back to this. The New York
Speaker 1: Post says, Squatty Potty is the best best chunk of
Speaker 1: plastic dollars can buy. Oh, isn't that a what a review? Well? Also,
Speaker 1: isn't it twenty nine dollars. I don't know. I bought
Speaker 1: four of them though for Christmas. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: people bought them. I think it's like the more we
Speaker 1: make fun of it, the more people want, I know,
Speaker 1: and then people like, what's happening? Is there by the
Speaker 1: by ronically because it's fucking hilarious, and they're like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: actually no, it's a hilarious gift. Everyone will get a
Speaker 1: good laugh. But then you know you're gonna secretly try
Speaker 1: it at least one and it's gonna take out. We
Speaker 1: all saw the animated the picture on the website. You know,
Speaker 1: if I see a cartoon doing something, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well let me do that too. Uh. There's a Squatty
Speaker 1: Potty model for every style and budget. It's true. There's
Speaker 1: a bamboo one that I almost got, but I do
Speaker 1: want to say if is in your budget, is not
Speaker 1: in your budget, maybe up for something else first. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're gonna hate that part. I mean, this is very
Speaker 1: I was surprised how inexpensive this was, though, Uh, find
Speaker 1: out what you're missing. Squatty Potty is available nationwide at
Speaker 1: bed Bath and Beyond, Target and Costco stores, or you
Speaker 1: can go to Squatty potty dot com. Use code poop
Speaker 1: and save off your entire order. I mean, definitely buy
Speaker 1: it online because number one, you don't want to be
Speaker 1: carrying that around and to use the code and make
Speaker 1: us look good. This is the best deal out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a Donald Trump right. That copy soon
Speaker 1: is the most amaze. It's terrible, It's it's amazing, So
Speaker 1: it's terrific. Don't use any other coupon codes. Okay, go
Speaker 1: to squatty potty dot com again, that's code poop. You're
Speaker 1: not going to forget that, uh and save Oh and
Speaker 1: receives free shipping. Oh that's nice. Wait they tell us
Speaker 1: where else you can get it and then say don't
Speaker 1: use okay whatever. Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I guess if you're out running errands and you're
Speaker 1: just coincidentally at that bath and beyond, it would be fine,
Speaker 1: Like it would be really hilarious on the Upper East
Speaker 1: Side to just like buy a bunch and let maybe
Speaker 1: drop them comically. So after you're done taking all the ships,
Speaker 1: you guys, go download this app on your phone because
Speaker 1: you need some help. If you've ever thought about going
Speaker 1: to therapy but found it too inconvenient, like you gotta
Speaker 1: go outside, you gotta get up, you gotta put pants on,
Speaker 1: not in that, or you gotta do it in a
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Speaker 1: base therapy for How We Live Today, M I want
Speaker 1: to I kind of want to sign up just to
Speaker 1: see who's on there. You up? I mean yeah? But
Speaker 1: oh um, I'm really excited for the holidays, guys. Uh
Speaker 1: And what better way to commemorate Christmas than with this email?
Speaker 1: I could have raped an Uber passenger. You don't say okay, alright, perfect.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I know you get tons of these not
Speaker 1: really like that, so I don't want to take up
Speaker 1: too much of your time. I drive for Uber on
Speaker 1: the weekends and listening to comedy podcasts keeps me zen
Speaker 1: during long nights. That's how I got introduced to your
Speaker 1: Fun podcast. I had an experience with a passenger last
Speaker 1: night that has me concerned. I got a request in
Speaker 1: the suburbs and went to pick up the request. I
Speaker 1: get to the address and see five people standing there.
Speaker 1: Then see one girl on the floor. Oh, we've all
Speaker 1: had that night. I've been that girl. Two of the
Speaker 1: people are helping the girl on the floor to my car,
Speaker 1: and I am at first concerned because I don't want
Speaker 1: this girl to get sick in my car. Then after
Speaker 1: they put her in the car alone, they told me pitches. Uh.
Speaker 1: Now I'm concerned because I wanted to make sure she
Speaker 1: was okay to be by herself. The girl that requested
Speaker 1: the trips that she'll be fine and told me to
Speaker 1: take off. She'll be fine, Just leave. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it is good that you get to actually type in
Speaker 1: the address and you can trace it and trace it
Speaker 1: on your phone. The drunk girl was passed out the
Speaker 1: entire trip, and I tried to drive as smoothly as
Speaker 1: possible to make sure she didn't get sick. And got
Speaker 1: to the destination. I turned on the lights and said
Speaker 1: we're here, and she couldn't stay conscious long enough to
Speaker 1: communicate properly. After a few minutes, I asked if she
Speaker 1: needed help because she couldn't walk before and there was
Speaker 1: snow everywhere. She said she was okay at first, then
Speaker 1: agreed that I can help her. We got into the
Speaker 1: car and she said this wasn't her address, that she
Speaker 1: was at another address on the same street. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: her friend tried uh like minimally, though I helped so much.
Speaker 1: I sent my drunk friend to the wrong house. My
Speaker 1: dad is kind of car, but it was kind of
Speaker 1: a mind fund because it was on the same street.
Speaker 1: So if you're drunk, like you know, like, are you
Speaker 1: sure drunky? I helped her back into the car and
Speaker 1: she passed out again, and I drove to the right address,
Speaker 1: helped her to her door to the apartment, and she
Speaker 1: said she didn't have a key. No boy. I asked
Speaker 1: if she had a roommate and she said yes and
Speaker 1: tried calling her. At this point, I'm holding this girl
Speaker 1: up because she will face plant if I don't hold her.
Speaker 1: Then a couple walks by, and the guy is giving
Speaker 1: me a very judgmental look. I am aware of how
Speaker 1: bad this must have looked, that I am holding up
Speaker 1: a severely intoxicated girl in trying to get into an apartment.
Speaker 1: And then when they tried getting into the door right
Speaker 1: next to the drunk girls, I asked them for help.
Speaker 1: I explained the situation and I didn't know this girl,
Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to make sure she gets home, Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean, thank god you living next to Jeffrey Dahmer. Uh, well, no,
Speaker 1: she's a woman, and he wouldn't care that she doesn't
Speaker 1: have a key and roommate isn't answering her phone. Uh
Speaker 1: these whatever. The guy daber says he recognizes her and
Speaker 1: says he can try to help. I asked if there's
Speaker 1: a landlord to call, and he said he would try
Speaker 1: to contact him. Drunk girl butts in and said she
Speaker 1: doesn't need the landlord, she just needs to go off. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, like, if can you imagine like calling
Speaker 1: your landlord in New York because you're too drunk to
Speaker 1: get out, he'd be like, go fuck yourself, sleep on
Speaker 1: the road. Yeah, the landlord would be so pissed. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then uh, she said she can go home with me.
Speaker 1: So the girl is now drunkenly telling the Uber driver
Speaker 1: she can go home with him. That's good. Uh. I
Speaker 1: quickly said that's not happening, and as soon as I did,
Speaker 1: the look of judgment left the neighbor's face. The neighbor's
Speaker 1: girlfriend checked the back entrance to the apartment and it
Speaker 1: was open. Safety first, I helped the girl to the
Speaker 1: back entrance of the building, and then the neighbors took
Speaker 1: her the rest of the way. The neighbor's girlfriend thanked
Speaker 1: me and said I was a good person, and then
Speaker 1: I took off, went to Wendy's to grab a quick bite,
Speaker 1: and went back to dark. That's my favorite in the
Speaker 1: Frosty it was I love that he included that detail.
Speaker 1: I felt like it was a personal shout out to me,
Speaker 1: so thank you. I know this is a lengthy story,
Speaker 1: but I think it's really messed up how this girl's
Speaker 1: friend treated her. Your show has a wide audio and
Speaker 1: so hopefully destroyed. This can make a small difference and
Speaker 1: letting people know that you shouldn't just pawn a friend
Speaker 1: off in an uber. It may seem harmless, but it
Speaker 1: could be like playing Russian roulette. There are some real
Speaker 1: creepy or shady dudes that would pounce on an opportunity
Speaker 1: to take an advantage of a girl that drunk. I
Speaker 1: was happy to help, but this night could have gone
Speaker 1: wrong in a thousand different ways. And then he has
Speaker 1: a signature on his oh on his email that doesn't
Speaker 1: hot m Gandhi be the change that you wished to
Speaker 1: see in the world. I mean that's what he did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was like, we get at your hero. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: he didn't write because he all want people to rape. Well,
Speaker 1: my problem with this email was the subject line is
Speaker 1: that your when you see a drunk girl, is your
Speaker 1: first thought that you're a hero because you didn't raper. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a little messed up. Well, I think it's just
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, like people's thoughts really just do
Speaker 1: go to that. It's like, no, I would have even
Speaker 1: been thinking about raping her, yeah at all. But and
Speaker 1: I got that's exactly what I thought. And I read
Speaker 1: his email and I was like, Wow, good for you
Speaker 1: that you didn't rape someone. But then no, he did
Speaker 1: do the right thing. But no, I was troubles me
Speaker 1: that he thought that if I were the female Uber driver,
Speaker 1: I would have thought that thought the same fucking thing.
Speaker 1: Not thank god I wouldn't have raped her, but thank
Speaker 1: god she asked me to come, like I was the
Speaker 1: car that got picked her up. Well, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: think it speaks volumes about the society that we live in,
Speaker 1: where you're like thankful that you didn't rape somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also kind of just like oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: how people like view like a drunk girl alone as
Speaker 1: not just we don't like my stage drunk guy alone.
Speaker 1: I'm like that guy had a fun night when you
Speaker 1: see a drunk girl alone, you feel troubled and she's more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this girl was, yeah, was exactly that, and that's
Speaker 1: it's jarring. And you know, you hear so many bad stories,
Speaker 1: so I understand I would think the same thing, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, she could have but then it's the
Speaker 1: whole it ain't her fault, like you know what I mean. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean with the friends, it's an asshole. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to take responsibility for when you drink too much.
Speaker 1: When you drink too much, does that mean you deserve
Speaker 1: to get raped. No, of course you never deserve to
Speaker 1: get raped. But you I mean, it's like we can't
Speaker 1: actually have to take precaution. We can't walk around the
Speaker 1: world invincible. I mean, I've gotten so drunk so many times,
Speaker 1: and every time I'm like, oh man, I think I'm
Speaker 1: so thankful that I have friends who are so good. Okay, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, anyway, so yeah, don't rape your good for you.
Speaker 1: But also I get it. And I'm sure her friend
Speaker 1: who's who was also drunk, just not as drunk, who
Speaker 1: set up the uber too. Yeah. I guess I personally
Speaker 1: have never been in a situation like that because I
Speaker 1: I I don't black out, but that's that's also luck.
Speaker 1: And I don't really get wasted to the point where
Speaker 1: I don't know where I am. I I don't think
Speaker 1: i've ever unless I'm at someone's home, my friend's house
Speaker 1: or something. So I've gotten that drunk, but I always
Speaker 1: know where I am. Yeah, this is me on too
Speaker 1: many nights. I can't believe him home, I can't believe well,
Speaker 1: I woke up in my bed. Good for me, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm just like magic is real? All right again. This
Speaker 1: is a podcast about doing what we say, not what
Speaker 1: we do. This subject line, Dad didn't talk to me,
Speaker 1: Dad dropped dead tons of therapy equals a message for others.
Speaker 1: I am twenty three living in a large city, which
Speaker 1: is going to be a part of the next tour. Yeah,
Speaker 1: come out. I was listening to your most recent podcast
Speaker 1: with Kate Wolf while on the plane and nearly cried.
Speaker 1: I probably would have cried if a strange man was
Speaker 1: not touching my shoulders with me. Oh I don't. I
Speaker 1: hope you're okay. My father was the parent that refused
Speaker 1: to talk to me. We thought, and I wanted him
Speaker 1: to be the bigger man and approach him and reach out.
Speaker 1: We were both stubborn waiting for the other one to
Speaker 1: reach out. I would go home and he would hide
Speaker 1: from me. He would eat dinner with me and the
Speaker 1: rest of the family. But besides that nothing. The reason
Speaker 1: this is all in past tense is that he died.
Speaker 1: He just dropped dead one day. This year, my doesn't
Speaker 1: sixteen has been extra shitty. I don't remember the last
Speaker 1: time I talked to my father on the phone before
Speaker 1: he died. I don't remember the last time I spoke
Speaker 1: more than a few words to him. It was probably
Speaker 1: him passing the phone to my mom or me asking
Speaker 1: him to do something for me. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: give a message to listeners which I wish I had heard.
Speaker 1: Although I can't speak for every every experience or issue,
Speaker 1: I hope this helps one person. If you and your
Speaker 1: parents or parent parental figure are fighting and they won't
Speaker 1: be the bigger person, man, woman, etcetera. Be the bigger person.
Speaker 1: Stop being a punk ass bitch woman up, man up,
Speaker 1: person up. Just suck it up and do it. Save
Speaker 1: yourself the weekly therapy bills and increase intimacy issues if
Speaker 1: they dropped dead tomorrow. It is sad that sometimes you
Speaker 1: have to be the person to reach out because you
Speaker 1: think so highly of your parents, but you need to
Speaker 1: do it. This is uh the what ifs that I
Speaker 1: deal with on a daily basis, or worse than what
Speaker 1: I what it would have taken for me to reach out.
Speaker 1: My father will never see me get married if I
Speaker 1: do that, or have children and be there as I
Speaker 1: grow up. So if you have a parent, god damn it,
Speaker 1: reach out. I wish I could be fighting with my
Speaker 1: dad and I don't get that luxury because the world
Speaker 1: is unfair, so fucking do something. It won't It will
Speaker 1: only take a minute, and it will. It will not
Speaker 1: only make your life better, but it will be enough
Speaker 1: to let your parents reach out. Just don't don't want,
Speaker 1: don't want to talk to them, send them an email,
Speaker 1: mail them a letter, send them smoke signals. Just reach out.
Speaker 1: Happy holidays everybody. Well that was good. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I agree, I agreed to and I thought that that
Speaker 1: was such a sad story, and I'm really glad that
Speaker 1: she she sent us an email. Yeah, older doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they are wiser. I mean it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: the younger person kind of should be wiser, not in
Speaker 1: like experience of years, but like as society progresses and
Speaker 1: ideas change and kind of go, like you're both coming
Speaker 1: in with like different types of knowledge. So and I
Speaker 1: really understand on being so stubborn that you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: like for you to him to talk to me. But
Speaker 1: then you hear a story like that and you're like
Speaker 1: you think of your own parents dying and you're like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you can't work it out, you can just take
Speaker 1: matters into your own hand. I mean, or maybe you can't,
Speaker 1: but at least try try. Um So this week's guest,
Speaker 1: I am very excited. We've gotten a lot of requests
Speaker 1: over the years to have on a person who is
Speaker 1: identifies as non binary, and it's hard. It's not like
Speaker 1: we haven't thought about it. We of course have, It's
Speaker 1: just we we don't know. I like no one person
Speaker 1: through a friend who is. But other than that, it's
Speaker 1: just not something a lot of people are talking about
Speaker 1: and we want to talk about it. We're both confused.
Speaker 1: I think I speak for myself, Chris So, I, I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just I've never had a conversation about
Speaker 1: it with a person, because you could talk all you
Speaker 1: want about with somebody who identifies as male or female.
Speaker 1: That's not going to get you anywhere. You gotta talk
Speaker 1: to the person, right, And there's so much there's so
Speaker 1: much new terminology and new levels of the acceptance. And
Speaker 1: we're gonna ask I already told us person, we're gonna
Speaker 1: ask you a lot of dumbask questions. So just listen
Speaker 1: to this with an open mind. Maybe I mean try
Speaker 1: not to roll your eye. Well, I this is a
Speaker 1: thing where if we both says I'm not here, she
Speaker 1: I go by They all right, But we always say
Speaker 1: when someone is saying something or talking or you listen
Speaker 1: to them. So we need to listen. So let's hear
Speaker 1: out their story today. This is someone who does use
Speaker 1: the pronouns they them um, and they are a senior
Speaker 1: editor at Bustle, where she is awesome. We've definitely been
Speaker 1: written up in Bustle. So that's why I mean that
Speaker 1: means that is very excited to introduce our guest today.
Speaker 1: Please give it up for Sam Escobar. Kick check that
Speaker 1: a bar, check that apart, radio stations, check that APARTM.
Speaker 1: I ain't getting kicked out of here. I ain't getting
Speaker 1: kicked out of here. I haven't kicked out of dinners.
Speaker 1: I haven't kicked out of stories. I haven't checked out
Speaker 1: of movies. I haven't kicked out a roll. I haven't
Speaker 1: kicked out of festivals one for another. But I ain't
Speaker 1: getting kicked out of here. Ain't getting kicked out of here.
Speaker 1: I have a long here. I have a long here.
Speaker 1: I'd be dress a wand I can't talk all a
Speaker 1: long sit down in my chamer and eat slummy. I
Speaker 1: have a long head. I'm a long here on the
Speaker 1: arty tip on the sea. I'm a coming to decompany.
Speaker 1: I haven't kicked out a right. Yeah, we already gave
Speaker 1: in intro and basically, I mean, just bear with us
Speaker 1: as we asked you a lot of stupid question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, you know, it's like people might
Speaker 1: be like, you're ignorant, but it's not ignorant if you
Speaker 1: are open and wanting to learn, not knowing the information
Speaker 1: and then being closed off to its ignorant. But if
Speaker 1: you're you know, we're trying. Yeah, we just don't know.
Speaker 1: And I talked about we don't know a lot of
Speaker 1: that about anything. Um, okay, so yeah, you identify as
Speaker 1: non binary. I didn't make a mistakes. No, no, you're
Speaker 1: totally You've got everything wrong. But now no, yes, I
Speaker 1: identify a non binary. I came out. I guess last
Speaker 1: uh really publicly, I guess last Christmas Eve? Oh how appropriatesary?
Speaker 1: Almost was that experience? Um well, I kind of like
Speaker 1: told some of my friends in college and then I
Speaker 1: went I scuttled back into the closet, I would say,
Speaker 1: because I was like I had figured it out from
Speaker 1: message boards. I kind of always had some inkling that
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite I didn't really understand like why I
Speaker 1: was I didn't identify as feel I just couldn't put
Speaker 1: my finger on it. Interesting, Yeah, because I'm curious about
Speaker 1: what led you to discover this or what what what
Speaker 1: was what you're you were feeling that led you to
Speaker 1: investigating it. There are little things that I like now
Speaker 1: can pinpoint and be like, oh, yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Um I for example, I like, see you know, I
Speaker 1: guess first of all, I've never liked the name Smantha,
Speaker 1: which sounds like a very silly kind of things, like
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't like their full names and
Speaker 1: they like their nicknames. But for some reason, it was
Speaker 1: something about it that just like didn't feel accurate and
Speaker 1: where and like the same as you know, would have
Speaker 1: been with Jennifer or Jenna, which both of which have
Speaker 1: you know, kind of female connotations. I can't really explain
Speaker 1: why it didn't work, but I've always been a snam
Speaker 1: And when I was in third grade, I like chose
Speaker 1: my own middle name, which is uh so, my parents
Speaker 1: named me sam Louise Escort Samantha Louise Escobar, and I
Speaker 1: in third grade decided it would be Llewellyn, which I
Speaker 1: didn't even know at the time. Is like a boy's name,
Speaker 1: and it makes a little bit more sense now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Llewellyn was a name, a Welsh boy's name, but I
Speaker 1: saw it in a book and I was like cool,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't, you know, have the context. But
Speaker 1: then in retrospect that one's more like a funny sort
Speaker 1: of thing. But also I knew I was queer pretty early.
Speaker 1: I didn't know the word for it, but I knew
Speaker 1: I liked girls. But like probably as of like third grade,
Speaker 1: I think, um, But then when I got older and
Speaker 1: I started like watching porn, I would like see myself
Speaker 1: even in straight porn from the male perspective, no matter
Speaker 1: what and that was really disorienting when I started realizing
Speaker 1: that that was not because I was just queer. It
Speaker 1: was because I was you know, I identified a little
Speaker 1: bit more we men in like I mean in terms
Speaker 1: of anatomy, but also I'm not sure perspective in some ways. Um,
Speaker 1: I've still been kind of like sorting that part out.
Speaker 1: But there was definitely a moment in college where I
Speaker 1: realized that like it was not just I, you know,
Speaker 1: like banging girls sort of thing. Um, what was the moment?
Speaker 1: I think, well, you know, I mean it was just
Speaker 1: like I think it was just I was like a
Speaker 1: series of moments. I was like a bunch of things.
Speaker 1: And I remember I was, I like kind of been
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I was just like I didn't
Speaker 1: like the way I didn't like the way that I
Speaker 1: felt pressured to like look a certain way all the time.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really a societal norm thing. Was like
Speaker 1: I literally just didn't want my body to look the
Speaker 1: way that it looked. Um, And like you didn't feel
Speaker 1: comfortable because you have the genitalia and female worm and
Speaker 1: do you feel like it do you feel like it
Speaker 1: doesn't like feel connected to you sometimes? So like the
Speaker 1: way that I guess the that I feel about it
Speaker 1: is like I like that, I like the way I
Speaker 1: look in a lot of ways, Like I think I
Speaker 1: love makeup, I love presenting very conventionally feminine a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. But like I've never felt connected to like
Speaker 1: my anatomy. I wish that I could be a little
Speaker 1: bit more fluid, because so many people kind of conflate
Speaker 1: being non binary with being androgynous and like, so they
Speaker 1: have this idea of like ruby rose and uh, and
Speaker 1: you know people who are like very tall, very thin,
Speaker 1: and very or very petee and very you know, thin
Speaker 1: and and with like a boy haircut, like a chick
Speaker 1: with a boy haircut, no makeup, but looks flawless, very chested.
Speaker 1: Because I mean that is that I hope that doesn't
Speaker 1: make you've got uncomortable. That's like one of the first
Speaker 1: thing I was like, Wow, you have huge breath, right,
Speaker 1: and which I felt like must be an interesting thing
Speaker 1: to deal me because I don't even know what it's
Speaker 1: like to have large And I hated mine arrest, but
Speaker 1: it didn't. It wasn't because I didn't feel connec to do.
Speaker 1: It was because they got me attention that I just
Speaker 1: did not want at the time because I was a
Speaker 1: double d since way too young, and so I didn't like,
Speaker 1: I hate it because some of the things you're describing,
Speaker 1: like I felt that too, But for me, it was
Speaker 1: I didn't want some fucking old creepy dude to say
Speaker 1: something gross and make me feel yea. And it's like
Speaker 1: I think it's like I still I love my boobs
Speaker 1: in some ways, but in other ways, I'm like I
Speaker 1: wish that I could just subtract them some of the time.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's part of part of It's just
Speaker 1: like I see myself in a very specific way, and
Speaker 1: I wish that it could go kind of back and forth.
Speaker 1: And I know that there's only one way that people
Speaker 1: can see me because like there's no I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't unless I literally surgically had them removed, which I
Speaker 1: don't want to do. There's no way that I could
Speaker 1: be ever seen as particularly androgynous, so right, because you
Speaker 1: have almost like a pin up esque figure. So it's
Speaker 1: like the most damn it right, which is that I
Speaker 1: think that's so interesting because the on the only other
Speaker 1: uh nine non binary uh person I know is has
Speaker 1: that kind of look that you just described. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most of the ones that most people that I know
Speaker 1: that identify it as non binary or um, you know
Speaker 1: our gender fluid. Uh they are. I would say a
Speaker 1: lot of them, you know, have very short hair, which
Speaker 1: is great because I feel like that allows a lot
Speaker 1: of people to like switch, you know, from being seen
Speaker 1: as masculine or feminine conventionally speaking. Um, for me, I
Speaker 1: have a very big head. And so if I have
Speaker 1: short hair, I've had three time. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: did you do it? Damn it? I got lumps on
Speaker 1: my head. So I have like I have also have
Speaker 1: like I just I'm I mean, my dad looks like
Speaker 1: hispanic Jackie Chan and I think I think I inherited
Speaker 1: some of them and so but like pale uh and
Speaker 1: so when I've cut my hair, I did not look
Speaker 1: like Mandy Moore and how to deal which is the
Speaker 1: original position, I was trying to look good look, but
Speaker 1: I definitely I I kind of eventually embraced it and
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, like how I present and how
Speaker 1: identify are not the same thing. And I don't need
Speaker 1: to you know, buying my chest, which I did, you
Speaker 1: know a little bit in college, And how do you
Speaker 1: do that how do you bind? There are well some
Speaker 1: people use straight up like duct tape around abroad, and
Speaker 1: that's like very painful, um effective in some ways painful.
Speaker 1: They're also like binders you can actually buy that are
Speaker 1: really great, um compression compression shirts that are really great. Um.
Speaker 1: I it kind of hurts my chest, Like I can't
Speaker 1: even lay on my stomach. I can't imagine it's like
Speaker 1: finding it. Um. And So I have friends that love
Speaker 1: those and they you know, for some people it's like
Speaker 1: extremely necessary, like just like it's a gender affirmation feeling
Speaker 1: and it's it's just it's really important to them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think too, because people are for the most
Speaker 1: a lot of people are are ignorant to this specific issue.
Speaker 1: I think it's saved to say, even the ones that
Speaker 1: claim to be like liberal and feminist and accepting blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. That's great, But I feel like it's got
Speaker 1: to be easier for that person to to bind their chest,
Speaker 1: to get a short haircut, so that other people at
Speaker 1: least know they have They're not like that's a woman
Speaker 1: and they don't have to fight that or or explain
Speaker 1: it or whatever. Yeah. And I think for a lot,
Speaker 1: like I have a few friends who, um, you know,
Speaker 1: they came out as trans and they then eventually, you know,
Speaker 1: they embraced being very masculine presenting and because they were
Speaker 1: kind of told that, like that's the only way that
Speaker 1: people will see you as a man. And then at
Speaker 1: some point they were like, you know what, like if
Speaker 1: I want to wear lipstick, like that doesn't make me
Speaker 1: not a transman. It just means that I am a
Speaker 1: man who also likes to wear lipstick. And there's nothing
Speaker 1: you know, that means that you're not the identity that
Speaker 1: you are anymore. And I think I think it's just
Speaker 1: because we could, you know, we associate presentation so heavily
Speaker 1: with identity, and in reality there there's such different things. Um.
Speaker 1: But for some people it is extremely necessary and it
Speaker 1: is like so important to them, but for others it's not.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's kind of a lot of
Speaker 1: the issue is that, like there's a very mainstream idea
Speaker 1: of like this is what a rsumin looks like, and
Speaker 1: this is what a trans man looks like, and this
Speaker 1: is how they're supposed to present and passing is the
Speaker 1: most important thing in blah blah blah, and in reality
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of times, you know, passing as
Speaker 1: a safety thing as as to a wanting to look
Speaker 1: a certain way thing. And and by passing you me,
Speaker 1: and that they come they come across to the general
Speaker 1: public as the gender that they want to identify as
Speaker 1: that they are, yeah, and so that they as opposed
Speaker 1: to you know, the sex that they we assigned at birth.
Speaker 1: And because people are very I mean I am, I
Speaker 1: am fortunate and that a lot of the kind of
Speaker 1: prejudice that a lot of non binary trans people face,
Speaker 1: like I don't experience because the way that I like
Speaker 1: to present is so much more conventionally seen as feminine,
Speaker 1: and people don't really guess that I, uh, I am
Speaker 1: non binaries. I don't get a lot of flak for
Speaker 1: it in real life. I get it online, um right,
Speaker 1: because you're not You're not being humanized to that person.
Speaker 1: So it's way easier for somebody in bumble fuck USA
Speaker 1: to like get annoyed and just let loose on the
Speaker 1: comments section and so like, and which I honestly is like,
Speaker 1: you know, fairly holmost I've been on I've been like
Speaker 1: writing on the for like five years because I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, the people know you from your writing
Speaker 1: with Bustle or have did you work other places? So
Speaker 1: I was at I was at Good Housekeeping? What's your
Speaker 1: right about? I was? I was a Breauty beauty editor
Speaker 1: there for a year and a half up until this
Speaker 1: past October. And you're very good at makeup. I look
Speaker 1: at you, I'm like, you know what the fund to buy?
Speaker 1: It's Aphora. I love makeup. So my pire apartments just
Speaker 1: hoarding my poor roommate. But I and then before that,
Speaker 1: I was the managing at the site called The Gloss
Speaker 1: and it was like it was like a lifestyle fashion
Speaker 1: beauty uh site with like a lot of feminist um,
Speaker 1: a lot of feminist writers and it was great. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so I have been dealing with comment sections for
Speaker 1: a long time with other stuff, just like being what
Speaker 1: kind of things get said to you? Before it was
Speaker 1: just like I can't believe that you called so and
Speaker 1: so rapist? Dare you? Um? And like I used to
Speaker 1: get a lot of hey, I can't believe they rape somebody. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just like I don't think it should be
Speaker 1: that controversial that I don't like Wody Allen. But but
Speaker 1: but surprisingly but I think I got I mean, I
Speaker 1: got a lot of appearance based ones just that we're like,
Speaker 1: you know, fuck you blah blah blah, um, I can
Speaker 1: swear right, like, oh no, I just realized that the
Speaker 1: name there's no swearing on guys. If you could just
Speaker 1: be a little more, just be a little bit, I'll
Speaker 1: just say, Wait, people get mad at you for you
Speaker 1: know any I mean, people would get mad at anything,
Speaker 1: and then they would just they go after your appearance,
Speaker 1: because that's like the laziest way you're dismissing somebody, especially
Speaker 1: anybody who like presents his female or like who you know,
Speaker 1: somebody who is like a female writer. People will go
Speaker 1: after first year appearance and second will be like you
Speaker 1: just want attention, and it's like, but I also want
Speaker 1: money and that's why I write. And I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie to you, like that's like my career. So and wow,
Speaker 1: you just yeah, like that's exactly misconception my career. I
Speaker 1: love that. And so I think that they would always
Speaker 1: go after my parents, and so I got I have
Speaker 1: had a few different instances where like I get posted
Speaker 1: on certain men's rights activists boards, uh and they'll just
Speaker 1: like Google image search me, which is why I have
Speaker 1: scoed my best selfies. UM put all the metadata in
Speaker 1: so that way on Google Images, all my good pictures
Speaker 1: come up and not the really bad ones. That is
Speaker 1: such a smart way to handle move. I've been doing
Speaker 1: it since two thousand and twelve, and I got to
Speaker 1: look that up to do that later. Yeah that's really good. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So when I came out, Um, I mean
Speaker 1: I've been I've been like openly career for a long time.
Speaker 1: But when I came out as non binary, probably I
Speaker 1: guess I did it on a small feminist site which
Speaker 1: is like a super wonderful safe space. It's called fem Splain,
Speaker 1: and it's just like this really great environment where like
Speaker 1: a lot of people have written really great personal essays
Speaker 1: about like sexuality and gender and feminism and you know,
Speaker 1: PTSD and eating disorders. It's just like it's a very
Speaker 1: healthy environment. So when I originally wrote for them, and
Speaker 1: I think November about it, so it's like a small
Speaker 1: version of coming out because I knew the only people
Speaker 1: that I you know, so this is before your family,
Speaker 1: before my family found a healthy place on the internet.
Speaker 1: That's great. That's exactly why it's so good, because they
Speaker 1: like designed it to be like they don't have they
Speaker 1: have a moderated comment section, like it's really really safe,
Speaker 1: and so I knew that like, the people that would
Speaker 1: be reading it most likely would be people who are
Speaker 1: really encouraging and like people I'm friends with or people
Speaker 1: who at least I'm you know e friends with. And
Speaker 1: that was great. And if the people that hated me
Speaker 1: were going to see it, they wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: comment anyway, So that was fine. Yeah, I was, I
Speaker 1: I gotta say, And this is me being a dick.
Speaker 1: I whenever when anyone says the word saved space, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I know, and but but like I like your situation.
Speaker 1: You know, you just want to come out to a
Speaker 1: community that will maybe you'll help somebody by sharing your
Speaker 1: story maybe and just skip the fucking stupid comments, right,
Speaker 1: It's like, just shut the funk up. Like so, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just just me telling myself to shut up. And
Speaker 1: I agree. But but but my my concern with safe
Speaker 1: spaces is that the world is not a safe space.
Speaker 1: So you come out in a safe space, and then
Speaker 1: it doesn't that make the real world even more brutal
Speaker 1: because you knew I just wanted to come out and
Speaker 1: just not deal with this stupid ship that's going to
Speaker 1: get thrown because you it seems like I actually knew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I mean part of the thing that I think
Speaker 1: the most important thing is the world is not a
Speaker 1: safe space for sure, which is why it's really important
Speaker 1: to create them. Um. And I think having those like
Speaker 1: for example, like Fmslin has like a lot of writers
Speaker 1: who are really young, like you know, in their late
Speaker 1: teens or early twenties, and they if they wrote an
Speaker 1: essay about coming out, you know, and they're they're last
Speaker 1: year high school and they wrote a thing and suddenly,
Speaker 1: you know, they got like twenty five different comments with
Speaker 1: people that are like fuck you got and like I
Speaker 1: can internalize that, yeah, and it's and it's just it
Speaker 1: is really nice because even though I I mean, I
Speaker 1: know how unsafe the internet is because I've had my
Speaker 1: address posted before, like I know exactly how bad is.
Speaker 1: But and also I mean, the creator of Slain has
Speaker 1: had that stuff happened to her. Does anybody go to
Speaker 1: the house, Um No, it was just on it was
Speaker 1: on a board. It was like a few years ago.
Speaker 1: Did you get taken off right away? Eventually? But I
Speaker 1: luckily I moved not to day long after because I
Speaker 1: don't forget that, but I like, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: safety is a really important because I think, um, even
Speaker 1: though things are terrible all around, it's like it's really
Speaker 1: important for them to be like small pockets where people
Speaker 1: can trust each other. And I think, like for trans
Speaker 1: people and non binary people, like a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of feminist spaces are not safe spaces because they
Speaker 1: are where people like who don't believe in trans women
Speaker 1: or transd exists, and like those are terrifying places. But
Speaker 1: they're all over the place, um, really feminist place. I mean,
Speaker 1: not that feminists are always I hate a lot of
Speaker 1: feminist honestly. Sometimes I wanted to ask you, have you
Speaker 1: ever read an article? You don't have to say who
Speaker 1: wrote it or what the article was or where it was,
Speaker 1: but have you ever read something and no, oh no,
Speaker 1: I really didn't. I really didn't. But have you ever
Speaker 1: read something of somebody else's work? And you're like serious?
Speaker 1: Because I do feel that I read broadly. I read.
Speaker 1: I used to read Jezebel. Then it's just really started
Speaker 1: to piss me off because it came off like some
Speaker 1: of the articles were great, and then some of the
Speaker 1: articles were too compensating for the feminist movement, and I
Speaker 1: just it didn't And I was, like, I thought that
Speaker 1: feminism was equality and support but also calling being able
Speaker 1: to call somebody on their ship in an intellectual, smart
Speaker 1: calm way, blah blah blah. But some of the things
Speaker 1: that I've read are two anti men or two I
Speaker 1: don't know, and it made me go, really, that's turns
Speaker 1: me off so much. I think, um, well, yeah, there
Speaker 1: will two things. I think. The first is that I
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of feminist sites, I think,
Speaker 1: or I guess, I guess a lot of female centric
Speaker 1: sites also just like get branded as feminist, um because
Speaker 1: like johns Well has like a huge variety and interest
Speaker 1: and like I do not agree with a lot of
Speaker 1: their articles. But at the same time, I like also
Speaker 1: think that so much of the work they've done is
Speaker 1: really great and important and wonderful. Um. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot of my issue with some feminist sites that
Speaker 1: and and I guess not in the case of j
Speaker 1: as Well, but I'm trying to think of another one.
Speaker 1: But um, seeing people as infallible because they're women, and
Speaker 1: I think that is like something I don't appreciate, like today,
Speaker 1: for example, a certain Lena Dunham. I really like youweeted
Speaker 1: the Lena dunham an abortion comments. Yeah, and I think saying,
Speaker 1: you know, criticism against Leunam is like you're only doing
Speaker 1: it because she's a woman. It's like, no, it's completely valid,
Speaker 1: same as Taylor Swift. There's a lot of women who
Speaker 1: deserve criticism. You should a woman should be able to
Speaker 1: critique a woman like That's that's what helps. Like people
Speaker 1: should be able to critique each other. We should not
Speaker 1: could take each other. People should always be striving to improve.
Speaker 1: And like I mean same as like with Hillary Clinton stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like not all criticism with Hillary Clinton is inherently
Speaker 1: you know, sexist. If she does bad things, she should
Speaker 1: be criticized. It's when somebody is going after her in
Speaker 1: like an extremely unbalanced way that makes no sense to me.
Speaker 1: That that that I feel like it's more sexist when
Speaker 1: somebody's like, oh, well, she wore that suit again, and
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't she do her hair a little
Speaker 1: different and like can she not do it? You know,
Speaker 1: and or like she's trying too hard to be likable,
Speaker 1: and it's like to me, is that well Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: just a lot of criticism in general on the Internet
Speaker 1: that doesn't need to be here there because who anointed
Speaker 1: you know, us king or queen, Like we are not
Speaker 1: so perfect that we have the like the background to
Speaker 1: criticize it. I mean, like on the internet, open conversation,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's just everyone's just nit picking
Speaker 1: each other, especially celebrities. I mean, you can't do anything
Speaker 1: if you're a celebrity. And I think with people like
Speaker 1: there are some celeberties and I'm like, oh, they like
Speaker 1: said something stupid and they came back on it, they apologize,
Speaker 1: and like that's okay because I think people make really
Speaker 1: stupid mistakes and everybody does exactly and the best thing
Speaker 1: to do usually is to like be like I apologize
Speaker 1: and I will learn, and you know, even if you
Speaker 1: just wanted to go away, like that's just the quickest
Speaker 1: way to make it go away. And I don't know
Speaker 1: why celebrities don't get that, um they just double down
Speaker 1: over and over. But with with people like Lena Dunham
Speaker 1: was saying things like I wish I had an abortion.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I just learned that
Speaker 1: because before right before you came over Karin told me
Speaker 1: read it, and I was like, because it's the number
Speaker 1: one trending on Twitter. Yeah, do you lean to sement that?
Speaker 1: She said? I mean, I we didn't read the whole
Speaker 1: article because the doorbell rang. But basically she said, even
Speaker 1: though she has not had an abortion, she said that
Speaker 1: she wishes she had had one for the experience the
Speaker 1: guys of like being like, I wish I could do that,
Speaker 1: so I could, you know, fight stigma and be a
Speaker 1: better advocate something like that. And the thing is with that,
Speaker 1: it's just like you shouldn't need to be within an
Speaker 1: ally you can, yeah, and being an ally as part
Speaker 1: of it is like not making things about you and
Speaker 1: amplifying voices that are above are different than yours. Did
Speaker 1: you see girls? But it's like she has a whole
Speaker 1: show for that, right, But I think the worst it's
Speaker 1: like that is such a weird privileged thing to say. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's like, that's that's what it is. It is
Speaker 1: a weird privileged thing to say. Na Dunham is not
Speaker 1: a bit for saying that. It's like that there's no
Speaker 1: middle ground of criticizing somebody like Lena Dunham because she
Speaker 1: isolates people so much that it's it's like we're fucking
Speaker 1: rooting for which football team is gonna win with like
Speaker 1: all of our fiber, of every all our being. I'm like,
Speaker 1: and there's so much sexist criticism of her. There is
Speaker 1: a lot that's just like, well, she looks like this,
Speaker 1: so she is a terrible person. And it's like that
Speaker 1: I think gets blended in with all the valid criticism.
Speaker 1: So it seems as though any valid criticism of her
Speaker 1: is sexist went in round. It's like there's two different sides.
Speaker 1: It's like she as an artist, yeah, critiquing her as
Speaker 1: like a public figure who's decided it that she wants
Speaker 1: to speak about feminism as publicly as possible without learning
Speaker 1: about it as much as she should. She's a narcissist
Speaker 1: with her heart in the right place. I think I
Speaker 1: think she means well for the most part, she's open
Speaker 1: to learning. I do not know her personally, but she
Speaker 1: probably I hope so. And I think I know listen
Speaker 1: to the critiques that she gets, like when she gets
Speaker 1: them in a large scale. I hope so, because I
Speaker 1: think with um, with some celebrities you know, of any gender,
Speaker 1: they just double down over and over and then they
Speaker 1: don't learn. And with with this kind of with her
Speaker 1: like her views on like sex workers and views on
Speaker 1: or like the statements on abortion stuff like that. It's
Speaker 1: kind of what are her views on sex workers? I
Speaker 1: would have to look them up a little bit close.
Speaker 1: They're they're a little too uh swerve, So that's like
Speaker 1: a turf. It's like a trans exclusionary radical feminist as swerve.
Speaker 1: It's like a sex worker exclusionary radical feminist femist. And
Speaker 1: kind of like this idea, A lot of celebrities have
Speaker 1: this idea that like who speak about sex work have
Speaker 1: this idea that like sex work is you know, inherently evil,
Speaker 1: and in reality, there's like tons of sex workers who
Speaker 1: are who can advocate much better for themselves and who
Speaker 1: are fine and who are not trafficked, and you know,
Speaker 1: they don't need a celebrity voice to speak for them.
Speaker 1: So that makes a lot of sense. But you're feeling
Speaker 1: also just you know, do you guys edit things out?
Speaker 1: We can't. We can't feel like the one I was
Speaker 1: gonna I was gonna say, I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm gonna double check and make sure that I,
Speaker 1: like am right that it was later done him that
Speaker 1: said a few things because I know Anne Hathaway was
Speaker 1: one of them too, and I was like, did I
Speaker 1: just well, you know, just two princesses anyway, princess then
Speaker 1: in the celebrity all right. So there's so much the
Speaker 1: words I wrote and read today that I am confused.
Speaker 1: So just like starting this is just a question I had.
Speaker 1: So it's like I've always felt like what I would
Speaker 1: characterize as like a tomboy, but I do feel like
Speaker 1: I am. I have the parts of a lady, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I am like I want to identify
Speaker 1: as a woman. So what what's the what's the difference?
Speaker 1: What was the thing that like put it over the edge?
Speaker 1: Like how do you how do you know we're on
Speaker 1: the spectrum? So many words just walk like walk us
Speaker 1: through it. It's so weird because it's really I get
Speaker 1: that question a fair amount um and I'm never quite
Speaker 1: sure how to answer because I think it's so personal
Speaker 1: between person a person, Like it's so um it's such
Speaker 1: like a I guess personal journey for like a better
Speaker 1: term and like experiential sort of thing that it's like
Speaker 1: hard to pinpoint and I definitely don't want to make
Speaker 1: statements about all non binary people. But for me, it
Speaker 1: was like I've never been what what could be considered
Speaker 1: a tomboy at all, UM, and I like, I've always
Speaker 1: kind of looked the way that I've also looked like
Speaker 1: I was since I was like twelve. So then that
Speaker 1: didn't help how old are UM? And I like got
Speaker 1: very I was like five seven and sixth grade and
Speaker 1: then just stuck like that, UM, And and so I've
Speaker 1: I've had boobs and like hips since then, and so
Speaker 1: I've always kind of looked very feminine. UM. And also, uh,
Speaker 1: I've always just loved makeup, and that's like something that's
Speaker 1: like really you know, typically associated with women and so
Speaker 1: and it wasn't like a feeling of like how I
Speaker 1: wanted to look inherently. It was like that was part
Speaker 1: of it later on, where I was like I wanted
Speaker 1: to experiment and I wanted to I was kind of
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how other people would see me
Speaker 1: um with the androgyny stuff. But it was also just
Speaker 1: I remember in two thousand, like eleven, maybe I read
Speaker 1: it on a message where like I read about people
Speaker 1: who are non binary, and I started reading all these
Speaker 1: like personal stories about it, and so many of them
Speaker 1: sounded like me and I hadn't really had it put
Speaker 1: into word and had click. That's on the connection to
Speaker 1: a community. That's the same way I figured out that
Speaker 1: I had obsessive compulsive disorder. I just read a book
Speaker 1: because I was like, I just this doesn't I was like,
Speaker 1: this just doesn't feel normally. I mean that's different because
Speaker 1: it's not normal like having always do you And I'm like,
Speaker 1: this doesn't feel normal. It doesn't feel like regular anxiety
Speaker 1: or different like you know. I was like, what is
Speaker 1: this I have? I have obsessive compulsive disorder, and I
Speaker 1: have no idea how people do not have it because
Speaker 1: it's like the only thing I know well. But but
Speaker 1: also a lot of people feel like we'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so O c D. No, No, if you had
Speaker 1: O c D you would there would be hours missing
Speaker 1: from your sucking day. So I know when people tell
Speaker 1: you the city, they're like, I washed my hands a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, it's not it. Do you also tap
Speaker 1: off four doors before you leave the house a time? No?
Speaker 1: Shut up? Well, It's like also speaking of things that
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham has tried to be that was the only
Speaker 1: that was the thing that bothered me most the episode
Speaker 1: where she like, like all of a sudden reveals she
Speaker 1: has O C D. And I'm like, you didn't. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you could have just copied it from the Jack Nicholson
Speaker 1: movie and it went away really quickly, got a good
Speaker 1: control over it. That made me laugh. I wish I did. Um,
Speaker 1: And now what do you? What do you say? I'm
Speaker 1: sure people have been like, well, you're you're just confused. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how do you how do you answer a few
Speaker 1: different ones? One is that I'm confused, one is that
Speaker 1: I want attention? Which do men tell you? That? Is
Speaker 1: it mostly men? Um online? It's yeah, it's actually a
Speaker 1: lot of men, but it is a lot of women too.
Speaker 1: There are women on Women can be shitty too, So yes,
Speaker 1: that's why I asked, if you google me, there's a
Speaker 1: there's a woman who wrote a very lovely article about
Speaker 1: you about how I have thrown people under the bus,
Speaker 1: how I think she said all non binary women get,
Speaker 1: which is like that, but it was like it was
Speaker 1: very it was just very strange and contradictory, and and
Speaker 1: it's just like the whole thing is like this very
Speaker 1: odd argument about how like um basically saying like, if
Speaker 1: you identifies non binary, you're like abandoning women and like
Speaker 1: you're not showing all they something like that, and it's
Speaker 1: weird and wrong, and and she identifies a feminist. She does, yeah,
Speaker 1: but she's also a joke to most feminist, to most feminists,
Speaker 1: like in media, I think I remember, like I tweeted
Speaker 1: out like screen shot the article, and so many people
Speaker 1: she's a Canadian. Uh, she's a Canadian feminist and she
Speaker 1: and so many of my friends were Canadians were like no,
Speaker 1: we were very ashamed her. She's not she's not one
Speaker 1: of us. Um. But but yes, I I have had
Speaker 1: people say I'm confused. I think to that kind of question,
Speaker 1: it's more like I think a lot of non buy
Speaker 1: any people and also trans people and also anybody just
Speaker 1: needs this like space to not feel solidified. Um. Since
Speaker 1: it is such a confusing kind of path that like,
Speaker 1: once you realize that you're on it, it's like hard
Speaker 1: to kind of pinpoint where you are in it. So
Speaker 1: like for example, when I was in two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: when I was like twenty one and kind of realizing it,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I want to I want to
Speaker 1: buy my chest and I want to look androws this
Speaker 1: and I want to you know, dress a certain way
Speaker 1: because I am genderqueer, like that's you know, I'm non
Speaker 1: binary and gender care I am, um, this is how
Speaker 1: I want to look, and this is how I want
Speaker 1: people to see me, and like, this is you know,
Speaker 1: what I want. And then I kind of stopped feeling
Speaker 1: that way, or I guess it didn't stop feeling way.
Speaker 1: I stopped thinking about it because I was sad about
Speaker 1: it and I could tell that no one was ever
Speaker 1: gonna see me androgynous lee and at the time, I like,
Speaker 1: really that was like the only line that I had
Speaker 1: to go off of, was like, as soon as somebody
Speaker 1: doesn't know if i'm you know, like what gender I am, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the winning line. That's when I'll feel And
Speaker 1: in reality, it's like that was just because I like
Speaker 1: kind of had you know, preconceived No, yeah, exactly, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, if I'm denicret that I have
Speaker 1: to look this way. And in reality, you know, once
Speaker 1: I realized that that wasn't the case, Like I felt
Speaker 1: a lot different, but I do getting out of a
Speaker 1: box to be put in another box. Al much. That's
Speaker 1: what That's when I find a little bit confusing about
Speaker 1: all this, because it's like I am all for like
Speaker 1: not fitting someone into this little box or having you
Speaker 1: choose one of three choices. But then it seems like
Speaker 1: so many people are then trying to fit into some
Speaker 1: other group, and that also feels equally suffocating in a way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I say, gets like there are so many different
Speaker 1: gender identities and there are so many um there's so
Speaker 1: many different ways that people can feel and identify, and
Speaker 1: also that can change from day to day. Like there
Speaker 1: you know, I know some people who are very gender fluid,
Speaker 1: and like some days they'll feel like they want to
Speaker 1: look very masculinly and some days will feel like they
Speaker 1: want to look very feminine. Sometimes they want to not
Speaker 1: feel you know, or or sometimes they don't want to
Speaker 1: look anyway at all, and you know, but they still
Speaker 1: identify a certain they still identify as gender flut, they
Speaker 1: still identify as non binary, and having the kind of
Speaker 1: like ability to have people like accept that. I guess
Speaker 1: it's really important to a lot of people who identify
Speaker 1: people that they know and love or the world. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, in my opinion, it's like kind of a
Speaker 1: lost cause right now to feel like the world will
Speaker 1: kind of me I you know, I know that hypothetically,
Speaker 1: I um started binding and like I went on uh
Speaker 1: you know, if I went on hormon, then I know
Speaker 1: that that might not be accepted by a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and that's something that's kind of stressed me out. But
Speaker 1: I think having the ability to know that, like at
Speaker 1: least your loved ones will, you know, that is really important. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: I have friends that identified as trans and then eventually
Speaker 1: they felt more non binary and they realized that they
Speaker 1: they just they didn't identify as I guess a binary gender,
Speaker 1: which like trans men are men and trans women are women,
Speaker 1: and that is still you know, within a binary and
Speaker 1: having having the ability to be like, well maybe I
Speaker 1: am somewhere in between is important and for I think
Speaker 1: it's really I think it's really good for people to
Speaker 1: like understand that that is not necessarily like what your
Speaker 1: first judgment is is not necessarily going to be where
Speaker 1: you are forever. Just like how a lot of people
Speaker 1: think that they are straight and then you know, thirty
Speaker 1: years later they're like, oh wait, I just maybe I'm
Speaker 1: not and that's okay, And like I'm queer and now
Speaker 1: I know that. Um. And with the word the word queer,
Speaker 1: does that mean that you are attracted to anyone any gender? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know I've dated people. I've primarily straight men actually,
Speaker 1: and because the way I look like that makes some sense. Uh.
Speaker 1: But wait, you said earlier that you were that you
Speaker 1: were attracted to women. I am too. Yeah, but also
Speaker 1: in addition to so it's not bisexual because you are
Speaker 1: also attracted to yeah, trans meant and women non other
Speaker 1: non binary, non binary people. Yeah. And I mean if
Speaker 1: it was like the whole thing, right, Yeah, And if
Speaker 1: I was attracted only to trans meant, I would still
Speaker 1: I would still consider my opinion. I still considered that
Speaker 1: straight because but I mean for me, I'm attracted to
Speaker 1: pretty much any gender. Um, I've like dated people who
Speaker 1: are also I mean, most most recently, I did start
Speaker 1: seeing somebody who was wonderful, enemizing and an austinne binary
Speaker 1: and we joked about it a lot. Uh. But I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so for me, queer is like an all
Speaker 1: encompassing kind of thing. I think some people have different
Speaker 1: meanings of it, but for me, it's it's very much
Speaker 1: and I'll never fault anybody for you know, identifying as bisexual.
Speaker 1: I get it. Um, I think it's a little bit
Speaker 1: easier to explain, it's a little more familiar. But I
Speaker 1: definitely consider myself I used the word queer. I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've used the word bisexual for myself.
Speaker 1: And like, I don't know eight years or ten years
Speaker 1: or something. Um, and then how and then going off
Speaker 1: what we were talking about before with loved ones, like
Speaker 1: how did your family react? How are they reacting? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's because it's it's and what did what did you say?
Speaker 1: So I got drunk I christ and Seve um and
Speaker 1: on Christie If I was with a couple of my
Speaker 1: friends and um, and I just I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, sure now it was a good time, and
Speaker 1: I just wrote a facetund. I was like I I
Speaker 1: on Facebook non binary people they're just like they get
Speaker 1: wasted like I do so much. But I, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm much more of a drunk tweeter. Um, I'm a
Speaker 1: high tweet. Drunk tweet is fun. Oh my god. Well
Speaker 1: the next so that night, I don't, I like came
Speaker 1: out on Facebook. You know, I don't know, it was
Speaker 1: like midnight and I was really drunk. And then the
Speaker 1: next day I woke up still at the same friend's
Speaker 1: house and just she was like, do you want tea?
Speaker 1: And I was like no, And I pounded like eight
Speaker 1: or five beers at eight in the morning. Wow. And
Speaker 1: I live tweeted it. So there's some really great tweets
Speaker 1: from Christmas Day. Why did you just choose to do that?
Speaker 1: Because you're like, I want to push this further, but
Speaker 1: I'm really makes me uncomfortable. No, I just love getting
Speaker 1: drunk hours and I was like, oh, I'm not with
Speaker 1: my family. We did Christmas a week ago, which same
Speaker 1: case this week, I did Christmas two days ago, and
Speaker 1: so I think I'm gonna and then your family see that?
Speaker 1: Or how did you tell your family? They did, and
Speaker 1: I briefly spoke to them about it, but we haven't
Speaker 1: really talked about it much. And I think, oh, interest,
Speaker 1: it's probably something that like is your because you're Latina,
Speaker 1: right or I'm half proven half? Well, how do you wait?
Speaker 1: Now you're if you're so, if you're non binary, do
Speaker 1: you say latin? I say latin X is like the
Speaker 1: L I T I n X is like usually how
Speaker 1: um l A T oh my god, I can't even Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw that on your Twitter, and I was like,
Speaker 1: does this is this S and M or something like Latin?
Speaker 1: And it's more I think a lot of people have
Speaker 1: like started accepting it as like a generational term because
Speaker 1: so many languages, especially Spanish, have like feminine and masculine words,
Speaker 1: and so like this is like an easy way to
Speaker 1: say instead of Latino or Latino. Um, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a more neutral way. Uh. And so I've
Speaker 1: seen it a lot more, especially with a lot of
Speaker 1: my friends that are also non binary. Um. But some
Speaker 1: people that aren't that are not non binary, um also
Speaker 1: use it just as like a more neutral way. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I'm half proving half my mom is
Speaker 1: like Mayflower White, like if you can like literally traces
Speaker 1: back to Salem witch trial. Cool, wow, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's a different podcasting that bananas. And then also we
Speaker 1: my grandfather's very into genealogy. We also have an ancestor
Speaker 1: who's on age like the like who is a judge
Speaker 1: during the Sandwich House, which is like I just got
Speaker 1: my genealogy kit. I'm going to send it in find
Speaker 1: out some ship. Did a person get hung in salemiches
Speaker 1: because she was a witch, but like, also, was she
Speaker 1: just like sleeping around? I wonder because I have a
Speaker 1: theory of like they confuse the word horror and witch
Speaker 1: back in and it was an easy way to just
Speaker 1: get people you didn't like out of your town, Like
Speaker 1: she's a witch. I heard Sanders a witch. Spread that
Speaker 1: around like, oh, Ashley is just you know, you know,
Speaker 1: Ashley is on Salem classic old time name um she.
Speaker 1: I think she was probably hung for being slutted because
Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm projecting and that makes are you slutty?
Speaker 1: I have the word slut tattooed on one side of
Speaker 1: my yes, so so either I'm a horrible fraud or
Speaker 1: you better be a big slunt than Oh my god,
Speaker 1: what made you want to show us that later? Oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah us Now, I mean I guess it's
Speaker 1: like right, so it just looked uncomfortable to show us
Speaker 1: now and then a beautiful is that a white race? Oh?
Speaker 1: Actually it's a scarificacious have scarification from when I was
Speaker 1: because white tattoos turned really ugly real fast. All right,
Speaker 1: well it's pretty so anyways, yeah, so I have so
Speaker 1: I got that, Like that's great. I had a month
Speaker 1: ago with some friends of mine. Uh and so I
Speaker 1: mean they didn't get that. They did not get to
Speaker 1: say we're there, but not tattoo. I actually totally do that.
Speaker 1: I mean it makes that now. One of my friends
Speaker 1: got t m I though, which I thought was amazing.
Speaker 1: So where on the body, I think, in the same
Speaker 1: spot if only I think, and I on her ribs
Speaker 1: to R side boob or something. But yeah, I got
Speaker 1: that tattoo because I was like, I've been called this
Speaker 1: enough times and I like the word enough and it
Speaker 1: doesn't bother me, so I might as well just have it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you called a slot a lot. Not as much anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes I strangers online, But like when I
Speaker 1: was like in high school and college, yeah so much
Speaker 1: or for being slott, you know, I was going to say,
Speaker 1: because a lot of times people perceive or the clay
Speaker 1: because you don't want to suck them so many reasons
Speaker 1: mats of people, which I was really like, I think
Speaker 1: for part of it in high school, I was I
Speaker 1: never really went through phase where I was like this
Speaker 1: is the worst. I think I kind of went through
Speaker 1: phase where I was like I should feel bad about this,
Speaker 1: And in college I was like, I should feel really
Speaker 1: bad about this, Like I like, I know logically that
Speaker 1: so many people see this as a negative thing, so
Speaker 1: like maybe I should, And then I didn't and I
Speaker 1: just didn't. I don't know, it just bother me, it
Speaker 1: doesn't I guess I can't. Yeah, I don't really equate
Speaker 1: sex and like morality. I'm trying to get behind why
Speaker 1: a lot of people get so annoyed and piste off
Speaker 1: at the idea of that somebody wants to be gender binary.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about, like I looked at your
Speaker 1: Twitter profile because romas like I really want to reach
Speaker 1: out to Sam to interview her them, you know, And
Speaker 1: then that was the whole and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have her them fun. God damn it nothing
Speaker 1: to do with you. But I was getting mad at myself.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, so many people are so annoyed,
Speaker 1: and I feel like the reason why is they think
Speaker 1: that on non binary people are trying to shove it
Speaker 1: in their face, but you're not. You're just being like,
Speaker 1: this is what I am. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of and you've got to go to your profile to
Speaker 1: find that, you know what I mean, You're not like
Speaker 1: handing out flyers like the preacher in the Union Square
Speaker 1: subway station. That's fucking throwning in my face. Yeah. People,
Speaker 1: I don't dam strangers to be like guess what I right?
Speaker 1: Whereas I get DM I mean I got one like
Speaker 1: two hours ago that was just like your why Clinton lost?
Speaker 1: And I'm just just like, but how much power do
Speaker 1: you really think I have? Did you hear about the
Speaker 1: colin Joe's weekend? I wrote about it, I'm the I'm
Speaker 1: I tweeted about it, and it got man into twitterment,
Speaker 1: I guess, And so I got lots of I had
Speaker 1: to turn off all my notifications from people I didn't know,
Speaker 1: as I got a ship ton of emails. I got
Speaker 1: a lot of Reddit notifications, and because I have a
Speaker 1: Google every time I see my email Google alert. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then once in a while it's just like some
Speaker 1: said you're nice, like yeah, and that who cares? You're
Speaker 1: ready to be angry, and then you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: know it's a compliment. Oh my god, Yeah, well you
Speaker 1: could put on the defense so much. That's what you're
Speaker 1: used to, you know, Like well, and so I like
Speaker 1: I wrote, like kind of tweeted about it. Because I
Speaker 1: was I was teating about how like, I mean, that
Speaker 1: was such a stupid joke. Um. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: I gotta says, just to be fully honest, I thought
Speaker 1: it was funny and I laughed at it. How did
Speaker 1: you ke? On Twitter? It was announced on Twitter this
Speaker 1: isn't exactly tinder that you can now choose from twenty
Speaker 1: seven different genders, which is also the reason why Clinton
Speaker 1: lost something like that, something like and I did chuckle,
Speaker 1: But what does when you heard that joke? What went
Speaker 1: through your head? I mean, I think it's like a trivialization.
Speaker 1: It's first of all, Okay, so I have a few
Speaker 1: kind of ideas on it, and I wrote about this
Speaker 1: to the observer Um eventually, but basically, like, there are
Speaker 1: a few things. One is that it's kind of trivializing
Speaker 1: the idea of like gender identity, and in reality, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like a it's not trivial to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not. And you know, and it's like for something
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, you know, identifying, being able
Speaker 1: to say like I'm trans or I'm non binary, or
Speaker 1: i'm gender queer, I'm gender flutter or anything like that
Speaker 1: is like is really really important thing, and not having
Speaker 1: to pick between two is good, and I think that
Speaker 1: was really important. And with Tinder it's like I've I've
Speaker 1: never been able to put it in my thing and
Speaker 1: in my profile. I would have had to just write
Speaker 1: it out and then you have to deal with questions,
Speaker 1: Whereas like if people know that there are different gender
Speaker 1: options and you've just already selected one, like there's a
Speaker 1: they're less likely to be like, they're less likely to
Speaker 1: swipe right on you and then ask questions about it.
Speaker 1: And and so I'd rather just like if you're going
Speaker 1: to pass me past me, um, And so that was
Speaker 1: part of it. Also, like this doesn't really apply to
Speaker 1: me as much, but being able to tell somebody for
Speaker 1: some people, and this isn't for everybody, um, but being
Speaker 1: able to be like, I'm trans is really important in
Speaker 1: some ways for certain people's safety, because like literally people
Speaker 1: have gone out on dates with trans people and then
Speaker 1: hurt them and use trans plantic as a defense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it was like a genuinely you know, in
Speaker 1: court defensible or or defense defensible argument and like that's
Speaker 1: so it is a life or death situation for some people.
Speaker 1: For me, it's not as much, but for some people
Speaker 1: definitely is. And I think that's that's also something that
Speaker 1: you know, you're also giving fodder to people, to Republicans
Speaker 1: that like everyone laughing at that joke, I would think
Speaker 1: maybe you didn't think this, but the people who a
Speaker 1: lot of the racist, sexist people, homophobic people who voted
Speaker 1: for Trump probably are like, hat, that's yeah, you're damn right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why a ton of that you're giving
Speaker 1: as a notoriously liberal show, which is why basically all
Speaker 1: of their political sketches are skewing Democratic. My concern is
Speaker 1: just like as a comedian, we're both stand up comedians,
Speaker 1: So as a comedian, it's it's so difficult to start
Speaker 1: saying like there are certain kinds of things or concepts
Speaker 1: that we can't joke about. Yeah, I feel the same
Speaker 1: way about uh, this is how I mean. I feel
Speaker 1: the same exact way about rape jokes. Like I think
Speaker 1: rape jokes inherently like for some, not for not all
Speaker 1: rape jokes. There are some rape jokes that are fund
Speaker 1: a lot of different kinds exactly the one and make
Speaker 1: me want to barf. There's some that make the punchline
Speaker 1: the rapist, and I think that or like your fear
Speaker 1: of being raped. That's like in some ways, you know,
Speaker 1: a better punch line because it's like we shouldn't have
Speaker 1: to constantly be afraid of things like that, ha ha,
Speaker 1: but or like rapists are bad ha ha. And so
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it'd be better jokes. But when you
Speaker 1: make a victim of but when you make a survivor
Speaker 1: the punch line it there's enough rape culture that it
Speaker 1: actively contributes to the idea that like rape is normal,
Speaker 1: that it's not a serious thing teenagers. Genuinely, there are
Speaker 1: lots of teenagers and college students that don't understand the
Speaker 1: difference between rape and consensual sex, which is why it
Speaker 1: happens so much, yea, And so normalizing it by being
Speaker 1: like this is funny, uh, it kind of it also
Speaker 1: like encourages people to not take survivors seriously and also
Speaker 1: encourages people to be like, well, get over it, and
Speaker 1: it's not a serious thing, and it trivializes it. Same
Speaker 1: with gender um and I think because a lot of
Speaker 1: people do think that violence against trans people is justifiable,
Speaker 1: or violence against not by people's justified or queer people,
Speaker 1: because that's there they believe that it's okay, like, and
Speaker 1: it's been normalized in some ways, Like, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a whole lot of um especially you know, not so
Speaker 1: much in the past ten years, but before that, there
Speaker 1: was so many different medias where or movies or TV
Speaker 1: shows where like somebody would find out that a woman
Speaker 1: was quote unquote secretly a man and in reality, like
Speaker 1: that was a person who was actually female. It's just
Speaker 1: they were signed like yeah, exactly, and they're made into
Speaker 1: a punch line. Their identity is made in a punchline.
Speaker 1: There your life gender is and also like their humanity
Speaker 1: is made into a punch line. And that's dangerous. And
Speaker 1: so if anybody wanted to make this joke, it should
Speaker 1: not have been a white cis gender dude. First of all,
Speaker 1: it should also not be a white CISG gender woman's
Speaker 1: altould not be a sisgender person. It should I mean,
Speaker 1: it could have been anybody else and instead it was him,
Speaker 1: And it wasn't funny, it wasn't well written. And I
Speaker 1: also think like in a lot of ways, it also
Speaker 1: give it's not just ammo for like Republicans, it also
Speaker 1: gives ammo for like leftists and liberals who believe that
Speaker 1: quote unquote identity politics are like what Clinton lost and
Speaker 1: like that it's to no fault of Clinton's and that
Speaker 1: it's not because America has tons of racists and it's
Speaker 1: not because you know, some fifty something percent of white
Speaker 1: women voted for Trump. Like yeah, so anyways, Yeah, basically
Speaker 1: I thought the article is you not. It's not saying
Speaker 1: you can't say that you're not. That's the other thing,
Speaker 1: like when people like when the racist Trump person would
Speaker 1: read your article that she's just trying to but you're
Speaker 1: you're just going, I don't think that was funny, And
Speaker 1: this is why it's not funny. That's what you're Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not trying to. I feel like people accuse you.
Speaker 1: I would think of shoving something in their faces, but
Speaker 1: that's their fault. They found you. And also on top
Speaker 1: of that, it's like, I mean, me and several other people,
Speaker 1: including like a very wonderful transman that I know who
Speaker 1: gets who isn't even in media and gets so much
Speaker 1: flak for everything she says, you know, defending trans people
Speaker 1: as human beings. Yeah, I mean, she gets deafer so
Speaker 1: much and she's not in the meat, and she has
Speaker 1: like three fowers the most and like people come after her,
Speaker 1: which is why this is like it is like it
Speaker 1: was angry because it was so frustrating to see people
Speaker 1: laugh about something that like when in reality, if we
Speaker 1: talk about it, like if we tweet about it, and
Speaker 1: especially her who is like literally in danger every day
Speaker 1: by walking outside because of the fact that like trans
Speaker 1: trans women are murdered at like a significantly higher rate
Speaker 1: than transom of color. Transom of color murdered at are
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's it's genuinely survival rate of a
Speaker 1: trans woman of color is so super low. And on
Speaker 1: top of that, it's like any I mean housing discrimination
Speaker 1: they make there's you know, a fourth I think of
Speaker 1: trans woman of color like living in poverty. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's an employment thing, it's a housing thing. And so
Speaker 1: she just like tweeted about the Colline Josh thing too,
Speaker 1: and she was getting so much hate for it. What
Speaker 1: was what what is being said? Like what is said
Speaker 1: You're dumb, you're wrong? Or God? Is it? Is it
Speaker 1: a god thing? Get you get images of people who
Speaker 1: are dead, you get a lot of It's just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why I like, you know, I
Speaker 1: empathize a lot with people who write for sites like
Speaker 1: Jazz well because like they had to deal every single
Speaker 1: day with like people putting like photos of raped women
Speaker 1: on like the side. I mean, it's working in media
Speaker 1: sucks in a lot of ways. But like people being
Speaker 1: criticized versus being like having like you know, awful image
Speaker 1: ships thrown at you is so different. And so then
Speaker 1: you actually feel scared. Yeah, you feel scared. And it's
Speaker 1: also just like incredibly disturbing. It's super triggering if you
Speaker 1: have PTSD um and for you know, for this situation,
Speaker 1: I turned off a lot of my notifications, but like
Speaker 1: I like saw some of them just because it's a
Speaker 1: little bit if you're on your phone sometimes like things
Speaker 1: will show up that don't get altered, and I like
Speaker 1: a lot of them are just liked I commits suicide
Speaker 1: blah blah blah T word um, just like oh the
Speaker 1: I it's a slur for being transgender. I just don't
Speaker 1: even like saying the one that, Yeah, are we talking
Speaker 1: about tranny? I'm gonna say it just because I say anything, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah no, because I mean I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people still use honestly, like a lot of my
Speaker 1: gay friends and who do have trans friends like they
Speaker 1: will say tranny within their their circle, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: well that they're in the circle and people representative of
Speaker 1: being trans are present, why did that? I feel like you,
Speaker 1: like when you that word really makes you cringe, I
Speaker 1: hate it, and why? Um, I think it's like because
Speaker 1: it doesn't get I mean, don't get me wrong, it
Speaker 1: doesn't get applied to me very very much, like the
Speaker 1: only time that anybody calls me us like once in
Speaker 1: a while, strange anything, because they just they don't really
Speaker 1: they just have a name. But a lot of the
Speaker 1: people that I know that our trance that have experienced
Speaker 1: the most violence have heard that over and over. I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask, like, I almost feel like you've heard
Speaker 1: a bad story of somebody getting just beaten and then
Speaker 1: that word being said, because it's like your reaction to
Speaker 1: that word is something that people should take serious and bad.
Speaker 1: It's a really and it's like I think for me,
Speaker 1: it's also I know, I mean, I love like like
Speaker 1: I've dated somebody who is a trans woman and she
Speaker 1: has dealt with like so much more than I can
Speaker 1: possibly imagine in terms of like she's very brave and
Speaker 1: how she presents and she and and goes out in
Speaker 1: the world and it's like such a she's an advocate
Speaker 1: for other women. She's like so wonderful and somehow, you know,
Speaker 1: like she is just to help with a lot of
Speaker 1: awful ship for like her her religion and for her
Speaker 1: um presentation and for her gender and that kind of word.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, and you saw that, you, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've seen people. I mean, yeah, and I've I've also
Speaker 1: just like I've seen things online of just people going
Speaker 1: after friends of mine and saying that over and over,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's I don't really use any slur
Speaker 1: for like race or gender. I really preferred not to,
Speaker 1: but like for me, it's any of those kind of
Speaker 1: words that I'm just like, I don't really like. And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I understand that. And as a person who has many
Speaker 1: times previously said oh that, I'll god get over it.
Speaker 1: That word. But hearing you say that, not that you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to explain shipped to every ignorant person in
Speaker 1: this world, but I better, hearing you say that gives
Speaker 1: me a new perspective. Yeah, because I think it's these
Speaker 1: peth the bullshit extraliberal dumbasses. It's not you are a
Speaker 1: very smart, very educated. You you're not obnoxious. I honestly thought,
Speaker 1: like all the things that I thought upon like reading
Speaker 1: your Twitter buy or something, are just so not true.
Speaker 1: And I always try to catch myself being ignorant as
Speaker 1: often as I can, But a lot of times I
Speaker 1: need somebody to tell me why do they feel a
Speaker 1: cringe when you hear that? And I think that that's
Speaker 1: everybody like for me. I mean I definitely have had
Speaker 1: times where like I needed to like learn about like
Speaker 1: I've said something that was like you know, for lack
Speaker 1: of better term, problematic or like kind of not stereotypically
Speaker 1: to say it, but like that didn't have that I
Speaker 1: that like either wasn't my joke to make or wasn't
Speaker 1: my um it wasn't like the most I guess positive, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a good opinion, wasn't It wasn't producting
Speaker 1: Like I've been like unnecessarily cynical everywhere, I mean especially especial,
Speaker 1: But I think I think there there there's been times
Speaker 1: where like somebody's like, hey, like this wasn't a great
Speaker 1: like for example, one word that I think like I
Speaker 1: one time said like I was like, oh, I feel
Speaker 1: crippled by my anxiety or something something like that, and
Speaker 1: one of my Twitter followers like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 1: wish you wouldn't say that, because I think that that's
Speaker 1: kind of like always been a slur for like people
Speaker 1: with disabilities and especially physical disabilities. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should just that wasn't I'm sorry, like I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have said that. Yeah, you're right, and I'm really glad
Speaker 1: you told me. And it's but they weren't, like you,
Speaker 1: you senseless bitch. Yes, that's a that's discriminating against blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Like it needs to if someone has that
Speaker 1: kind of thought that it just unfortunately it does need
Speaker 1: to be presented in a non aggressive way. Yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, I think, so there are also
Speaker 1: times when I do think that, Like I think a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, allyship is about like educating oneself too,
Speaker 1: So like for example, with um, I guess, like for
Speaker 1: I guess at one point I wanted I didn't get dreadlocks.
Speaker 1: But at one point when I was like eighteen or nineteen,
Speaker 1: I was like, I want dreadlocks. And then I started
Speaker 1: learning yeah exactly, and I was pretty happening, and I
Speaker 1: started learning about the history of it instead of um
Speaker 1: kind of because like I could have just done it,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, then maybe somebody would have
Speaker 1: called me out on it, but it wasn't there responsibility
Speaker 1: to do that, Like it was my responsible to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should learn about that, know what you're doing, not
Speaker 1: just col I want that too. And then you realize, oh,
Speaker 1: white people have been doing that to block people forever,
Speaker 1: and corner is everything we've called appreciation. Like I think
Speaker 1: that's like one of those especially, I mean especially with
Speaker 1: a lot of hair styles. Like I'm just like all
Speaker 1: celebrities at this point, like white celebrities really have the
Speaker 1: tools that they need to know not to do that
Speaker 1: or where you know, or Hillary Duffware and Native American
Speaker 1: head dressed for Halloween. I'm just like you guys know
Speaker 1: better already, Like why are you still why are there
Speaker 1: still sororities dressing up in Mariachi outfits even though they're
Speaker 1: all white, right, right, But I think it's so important,
Speaker 1: it's really important. For like with the crippled thing, I
Speaker 1: used to say all the time, I wish I just
Speaker 1: had a wheelchair so I could just wheel wherever the
Speaker 1: funk and then my boyfriend's father is in a wheelchair
Speaker 1: from a tragic accident years and years ago, and we
Speaker 1: would we go to theme parks every year, and I look,
Speaker 1: every year I go, we go with him, and then
Speaker 1: we go to the management office when we get the
Speaker 1: special pass for a person who's handicap, and they never
Speaker 1: look him in the eye, but they talk about him,
Speaker 1: and he's right there, like, and I remember one year
Speaker 1: I turned to him and I go, they don't look
Speaker 1: at you like you're a person. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're fucking telling me, Like he's like, no ship. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, and I made that. I connected the dots.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna say that anymore. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think it's like, I think so much of
Speaker 1: it is like I used to say, like the R
Speaker 1: term that is often used for developmental disabilities, right that
Speaker 1: I really had to untrain myself because I did that,
Speaker 1: I think until I was like seventeen or eighteen, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, it's hard, so shitty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're a comedian, like we've gotten flak for saying
Speaker 1: that word. And then I read the emails. I'm like, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: that your daughter is retarded a daughter, that's the word
Speaker 1: that there. But then when I use that word, I
Speaker 1: would never think of making fun of a young girl
Speaker 1: who has mental disabilities. But that's what they feel when
Speaker 1: they hear because they that's their kid. They have to
Speaker 1: do there with their child every day, and they can
Speaker 1: with being made fun of. Yeah, And there are people
Speaker 1: with you know, like I've spoken with I've like interviewed
Speaker 1: a model with Down syndrome and um, and she's, you know,
Speaker 1: so great at what she does. She's like a super
Speaker 1: great model. But she also has talked about like how
Speaker 1: much it hurts when other people say things. So it's
Speaker 1: just like it is a personally hurtful thing too, I think,
Speaker 1: and I guess like that there are times when I'm
Speaker 1: just like, oh I thought something was funny, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't think something was a big deal. And then
Speaker 1: you know, as soon as it as soon as you
Speaker 1: like realize like, oh, if this was my perspective, of
Speaker 1: course it would be a bother me. Like and but
Speaker 1: on a certain point, like so this is this is
Speaker 1: it's difficult, especially for comedians, Like at a certain point,
Speaker 1: you just can't walk on eggshells and almost everything that
Speaker 1: I can think of that would be interesting to talk about,
Speaker 1: because it's like, comedy is so much, you know, making
Speaker 1: people feel those feelings, and sometimes the feeling is uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Um So, so what what would your advice be to
Speaker 1: people who need to talk about everything? Because because kind
Speaker 1: of my school of thought is like, I want to
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the most offensive things because
Speaker 1: I think even if you know you slip up with terminology,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's better to just talk about it instead of
Speaker 1: just not talk about subject. I think there are some
Speaker 1: I think so the way that I like talked to
Speaker 1: a few of my friends who are comedians about it too,
Speaker 1: and I think one thing is like, is this, you know,
Speaker 1: is this punching up or punching down? Like am I
Speaker 1: making fun of somebody? Like with the with the making
Speaker 1: fun of a rape victim thing, It's like, that's punching down.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's almost borderline on it. And I've
Speaker 1: heard jokes where a man does make the rape victim
Speaker 1: the butt of the joke and I feel gross. But
Speaker 1: because I'm a comedian, like I didn't like that joke.
Speaker 1: That joke was fucking awful, but I didn't I that's
Speaker 1: all that happened. And when I imagine because I have
Speaker 1: friends that are you know, I have friends that like
Speaker 1: love going to comedy. They aren't comedians, but like they
Speaker 1: love going to comedy and they have like walked into
Speaker 1: a show like alone, and there's like, you know, they're
Speaker 1: women and they the guide comedian always sucking, or they
Speaker 1: will walk in and they're like here like a rape
Speaker 1: drive and they're just like shit, And like, I wish
Speaker 1: I didn't have to hear about this every time I
Speaker 1: want to get entertainment. UM. And I think the other
Speaker 1: thing is to think about, like, is like is this
Speaker 1: is this promoting a harmful opinion? Like am I am
Speaker 1: I kind of not? Am I like helping to push
Speaker 1: forward this idea of like a stereotype, really negative stereotype,
Speaker 1: Like am I putting something into the world that like
Speaker 1: is helping the side that I don't necessarily want to
Speaker 1: be on? Like am I helping to affirm stereotypes about
Speaker 1: like people that are not myself? Like um, Like, for example,
Speaker 1: I have bulimia. I've been believing for very long time.
Speaker 1: UM And like I recently did a couple of shows
Speaker 1: and I did sets about it, and I just tried
Speaker 1: to make sure like everything I talked about was like
Speaker 1: about myself and like, are you also a stand up media?
Speaker 1: Not really, I just done a few. Sorry, well I'm
Speaker 1: I don't know. No, I got asked to do my
Speaker 1: best friend does in the Twitter buyer. Come on, that's
Speaker 1: all how to do poetry, which is weird. That's not weird.
Speaker 1: I love going to slam poetry poetry, so I don't
Speaker 1: do it, but I love watching people. I almost graduated
Speaker 1: with a degree in poetry. Wow, I didn't even know
Speaker 1: that I did. Well, it's not because I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure someone has. Wasn't the right thing? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: college definitely wasn't um. But I know I've done like
Speaker 1: a few I've don't like, maybe five shows, so not really.
Speaker 1: I would not concern myself commedia. I would consider com yeah,
Speaker 1: but artists right, yes, amuse and idol. But I did
Speaker 1: like most of my jokes about myself, and I tried
Speaker 1: to make sure that they were kind of like centered
Speaker 1: around me, which sounds egotistical, But I also didn't want
Speaker 1: to give people the idea that like that is safe
Speaker 1: routes because exactly what you know has been around around
Speaker 1: for ages. I mean, that's that's normal. Um, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have to wrap up. But I earlier
Speaker 1: today like basically, like this whole episode was just kind
Speaker 1: of like, we're really confused about something, and to be honest,
Speaker 1: I want someone who doesn't seem very terribly annoying to
Speaker 1: explain it to us in a non judgment doing a
Speaker 1: great job. But I had people tweet like, can you
Speaker 1: ask a question that you might have for a non
Speaker 1: binary person and don't don't worry if you sound offensive
Speaker 1: or dumb? So can I? Yeah? And and no one
Speaker 1: should feel These are the questions that people thought, and
Speaker 1: I think it's better to clear them up by someone
Speaker 1: who knows rather than just like let them linger in
Speaker 1: your head and kill you. Um So this person asked,
Speaker 1: what does gender dysphoria feel like? Oh gosh, that I
Speaker 1: feel like it's I guess that would be definitely a
Speaker 1: personal enough things like I don't really I don't think
Speaker 1: I have gender dysphoria because I say and experienced, so
Speaker 1: I can't Actually, yeah, I don't think I could speak
Speaker 1: to that very well. Have you have you ever had
Speaker 1: any friends too experienced gender dysphoria? Yes? And I think
Speaker 1: for them, I mean, and I don't seek for all
Speaker 1: of them, but for the few that have really told
Speaker 1: me a lot of those feelings, like it's just extreme,
Speaker 1: it would say, extreme discomfort a lot of it, um
Speaker 1: with their physical being, with their physical for them, it
Speaker 1: was for the few that I'm talking about, like it
Speaker 1: was their physical politicality and also being constantly miss gendered,
Speaker 1: like constantly having people be like she as opposed to he,
Speaker 1: or um she as opposed to them, or and vice versa. UM.
Speaker 1: I think for me, it's like I haven't experienced that
Speaker 1: the same way. Um, I have body dysmorphia like I
Speaker 1: have because of the whole you need sort of thing,
Speaker 1: but like different you're overweight, No, I just can't really
Speaker 1: figure out what my body looks like. I just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so I like once in a while,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I mean when I I was like, yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: because I mean, which is totally yeah, definitely different. But
Speaker 1: I mean that, like I guess, is the only and
Speaker 1: like comparison I have is it's just like I'm always
Speaker 1: weirded out by my body and it doesn't feel ever
Speaker 1: quite right. But it's definitely different because with like eating disorders,
Speaker 1: it's like there's no end goal. Besides, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: have an need disorder for whatever, um we could. I
Speaker 1: mean sometimes I believe it's that all gets skinny, but
Speaker 1: like in reality, like that's not mine. I was believing
Speaker 1: for like eight months it was all control, control, a
Speaker 1: lot of the control thing. At this point, I'm like
Speaker 1: just straight up addicted to being believing. I mean, because
Speaker 1: it's like a chemical thing too. Well. Yeah, the reward
Speaker 1: system and the just like you're what you do throughout
Speaker 1: your day, your schedule okay, yeah, and just with gender stuff,
Speaker 1: like a lot of it gender just for it for
Speaker 1: other people. And this is obviously different for everybody, but um,
Speaker 1: it can be there is an end goal, like there
Speaker 1: is like, uh, you know, this is I finally feel
Speaker 1: like I'm becoming the person I want to become. So
Speaker 1: it's a lot different, but that's I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I would just think of it is probably discomfort. Okay, No,
Speaker 1: this is no. This is where we're gonna go right
Speaker 1: through these Um we kind of answered this one already.
Speaker 1: But this person asks, can most people tell your non
Speaker 1: binary or do you have to come out like gay
Speaker 1: or by people? Yeah? I usually have to just come
Speaker 1: out like how do you just like on a date
Speaker 1: or something like if you how do you say most people?
Speaker 1: Because I had a lot, so somebody, I mean, I
Speaker 1: date a lot to Twitter, so somebody like already knows
Speaker 1: they already know. Yeah, or like me if I meet
Speaker 1: through I'm a guy at an uberpool ones and then
Speaker 1: googled me by the next date and he was like,
Speaker 1: I saw your Esquire. I wrote about it for Esquire.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Um after the after the small
Speaker 1: feminist site. I four months later wrote about it for
Speaker 1: Esquire and that was when that's yeah, I can usually
Speaker 1: that's a couple more mainstream yeah, and then everyone goes crazy. Um.
Speaker 1: So this is more of a comment. But if you
Speaker 1: have anything to add to it, this person says, it's
Speaker 1: like understanding what the world is like to someone who
Speaker 1: is color blind. Conceptually, I accept it, but I can't
Speaker 1: internalize it. I think that's what they don't have. This
Speaker 1: person is not gender binary, no, but it seems like
Speaker 1: I think like a straight dude. Um. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: because you don't have to internalize it, if that right, well,
Speaker 1: I always well, I think there's a difference because people
Speaker 1: a lot of times like that I accept that. But
Speaker 1: I think the next level after accepting is understanding, because
Speaker 1: I think accept it. I well, to me, I think
Speaker 1: the next level level is like because it's like they're
Speaker 1: tolerating and it's accepting. It's just like I think, kind
Speaker 1: of respecting. Like it's just like I, you know, for example,
Speaker 1: like I'm never going to know what it's like to
Speaker 1: be perceived as I'm never gonna know what it's like
Speaker 1: to be a person of color, Like that's never gonna happen, right,
Speaker 1: But I like, you know, and obviously this is different.
Speaker 1: But it's like I can respect their experiences and their
Speaker 1: perspective and there, you know, identities, but I will genuinely
Speaker 1: never understand what it's like because I don't have those
Speaker 1: experiences or that identity or that um or that life
Speaker 1: or their perspective. And so uh, it's like to take
Speaker 1: their word on it. That's when you put your listening here,
Speaker 1: And that's why I can't assume to know what they
Speaker 1: would feel like. So okay, And then what's the difference
Speaker 1: between non binary and pan sexual. So non binary is
Speaker 1: a gender identity, pans sexual is a is a sexual orientation.
Speaker 1: It's like a yeah, so who your said she was?
Speaker 1: She came on the pod. We did a podcasting but
Speaker 1: for UMU Pride month, and she we asked people to
Speaker 1: submit clips because we want to hear from the lgbt
Speaker 1: q i A community. And I remember Mary Best said
Speaker 1: she was pants sexual and I was like, word, okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I've known you for yees. It's
Speaker 1: not my own question. Sometimes I know the answer, but
Speaker 1: I just I am not reading it. This one, this
Speaker 1: one is interesting. Why do people take such pride in
Speaker 1: being non binary slash act like it's an accomplishment. I
Speaker 1: know gender, I said, open whatever. I know gender is
Speaker 1: a spectrum, but I d G I I don't get
Speaker 1: I don't give a funk totally get um. And I
Speaker 1: think that part of it is like a visibility thing. Um.
Speaker 1: So I I am like I would say, I'm as
Speaker 1: proud of it as I am of being proven. It's
Speaker 1: just like who I am. It's like I'm still done it,
Speaker 1: uh and it's it's cool. It It's also not like
Speaker 1: a it's not one of those things that I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is an accomplishment necessarily. I mean, I think accomplishment wise,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I have a good career, and I
Speaker 1: you know, and I am you know, I'm I have
Speaker 1: really great friends, and I'm I run a support group
Speaker 1: like that stuff that I think of his accomplishments, but
Speaker 1: I think is an identity. It's more just something that
Speaker 1: I'm like vocal about because there there are increasing numbers
Speaker 1: of people who are non binary, but there aren't, like
Speaker 1: it's not like a widespread thing. And I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I answer a lot of d m s from and
Speaker 1: I would never ever ever post any of them um
Speaker 1: or quote any of them really, but I get a
Speaker 1: lot of dms from people that are like, I'm confused
Speaker 1: about my gender identity and like, can I talk to
Speaker 1: you about it? And that's one of the other reasons
Speaker 1: I vocal is because like I would rather that person
Speaker 1: message me or anybody else who's non binary than to
Speaker 1: be a fifteen year old who you know, is super
Speaker 1: confused and feeling really bad about themselves and feeling like
Speaker 1: they alone and not have anybody to like vent to
Speaker 1: or whatever, um, And so that's important to me. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely not an accomplishment, but it's definitely I want
Speaker 1: to be vocal about it. And also, like I myself
Speaker 1: and a few other people that I'm pretty good friends with,
Speaker 1: like are really into makeup and also very into beauty,
Speaker 1: and like that's something that's not associated with being non
Speaker 1: binary necessarily, um, because it's just like, oh, you have
Speaker 1: to be you know again, like you have to be
Speaker 1: draggynist and you have to like not be into lipstick
Speaker 1: if you're going to be like present. When people realize
Speaker 1: that all gay men don't talk like, that's solid time,
Speaker 1: Like that's not how men. You don't sound gay. I
Speaker 1: didn't write. It's like that's supposed to be seen as like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's a good question because it comes off as like ignorant,
Speaker 1: But then it's good too. It's good that person asked
Speaker 1: in that exact way because there was clearly yeah, well,
Speaker 1: do other non binary people ever shipped on you because
Speaker 1: you are so into beauty and like you're not being
Speaker 1: the not binary person that they think you should be.
Speaker 1: It's happened one or two times, but so rarely. Um.
Speaker 1: I've had a few people be like, you don't speak
Speaker 1: for all of us, and it's like I don't really
Speaker 1: want to, So that's fine. You should always just be
Speaker 1: speaking for yourself as an individual and in some ways,
Speaker 1: like there are times when I'm just like you know,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, Yeah, I I've had one
Speaker 1: or two of those, But most of the people that
Speaker 1: I know, especially through Twitter, that are non binary, are
Speaker 1: really understanding. So I've haven't really had I haven't really
Speaker 1: encountered that very much. And then the last question, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is this one says I've always been curious about
Speaker 1: people who identify as trans later in life. Caitlyn Jenner
Speaker 1: is the most typical examp. I can only imagine how
Speaker 1: many times the name Caitlyn Jenner has been brought up
Speaker 1: to you. Um. I mean, obviously, being trans and non
Speaker 1: binary are different. I think that's something that people are
Speaker 1: confused about to begin with giving comments on that. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, like and how they're different. Well know why
Speaker 1: someone would come out later you don't want to. Caitlyn
Speaker 1: Jenner was always trans, and I mean like, if you
Speaker 1: watch like pieces about her life, you kind of like
Speaker 1: see the slow progression of it happening. Um. And I've
Speaker 1: watched interviews with her where you know, she always said
Speaker 1: that I didn't feel the way I looked and things
Speaker 1: like that. Um, but I mean you said you knew
Speaker 1: something was gradually yeah, and it was like I knew
Speaker 1: there were different things like I mm hmm, Like I
Speaker 1: think that the reason why I eventually came out and
Speaker 1: I kind of realized it was like I found other
Speaker 1: people that were and I heard them speak and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is like what I've been trying
Speaker 1: to put into words, and it's kind of like that
Speaker 1: little like click where you're like, oh, my goodness, I
Speaker 1: had no idea that other people felt like And that's
Speaker 1: a sense of belonging to a to a place that
Speaker 1: you didn't even think. Yeah, and I knew I could
Speaker 1: feel that, Like I knew I was attracted to girls
Speaker 1: starting in third grade, but I didn't know the word
Speaker 1: for it until I was like in seventh grade. I
Speaker 1: think I didn't know there as anybody else that felt
Speaker 1: like that until I was older. And as soon as
Speaker 1: I realized that, I was like, okay, Like this is
Speaker 1: an okay thing and UM. I think that kind of
Speaker 1: happens with other people where they're like they didn't find
Speaker 1: the words for it, or they didn't know they had
Speaker 1: a safe arena to come out, or they didn't have
Speaker 1: the means to um. Because for for me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm totally safe, Like I know, I make enough money
Speaker 1: that I can support myself if hypothetically something not I mean,
Speaker 1: Bustle has been really amazing about it. But like hypothetically
Speaker 1: they like an employer previously like fired me, I would
Speaker 1: be able to survive, so it wasn't a danger thing
Speaker 1: for me. For some people, it's like they have to
Speaker 1: wait until it's super safe, or like they're financially secure
Speaker 1: enough that if they lost their job, like they would
Speaker 1: not go homeless. So for some people, it's like a
Speaker 1: survival mechanisms just like not come out, or to not
Speaker 1: present a certain way, or to only present privately a
Speaker 1: certain way, or to you know, or our groups like
Speaker 1: the a c L you doing work for non binary
Speaker 1: trans or not, or they that kind of forgotten. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's like a much I'm not
Speaker 1: actually share the percentage, but I have read that like
Speaker 1: a lot of those groups, Um it is a lot
Speaker 1: lower of a percentage, especially I mean in general lgbt Q.
Speaker 1: Um it's it's a lot lower than a lot of
Speaker 1: other causes. But I mean also they it's unfortunately that
Speaker 1: they have to do so much fighting. But um, it's
Speaker 1: there are some there's I think Transgender Law Center is one.
Speaker 1: If I'm not forgetting okay, Yeah, there's also the Tribal Project,
Speaker 1: which is like sucking incredible, Like they're like they provide
Speaker 1: like a ton of resources, especially to like trans and
Speaker 1: not bearing a youth and queer use, which is really
Speaker 1: wonderful because yeah, so many peoplewards being yeah, and like
Speaker 1: so many of the people end up being homeless or
Speaker 1: get thrown out of their homes. Um, and so it's
Speaker 1: good to have like resources for that. I guess absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Um, we'll put up some links
Speaker 1: and some articles and if you have any recommendations of
Speaker 1: articles if people want to kind of like uh read
Speaker 1: further or books or if you're feeling confused or anything
Speaker 1: like that. Um, thank you so much for sitting down
Speaker 1: and letting us pick your brain. Is so fun. What
Speaker 1: how can people do? You want people be able to
Speaker 1: find you on Twitter? When I find you? My Twitter
Speaker 1: handle is at my hair is blue. Perfect, that's easy
Speaker 1: to spell, easy to remember. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: sitting down with us. Thank you so much. This has
Speaker 1: been guys, we fucked the Anti Sluction podcast. We'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next Friday so much. It's not easy. Thanks
Speaker 1: say hey fucker, thanks so much for listening to today's
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