Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm Kren're sorry about last night the anti sluck Shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I never stopped. Hey fucker's Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Guys We Fucked. It's the Anti sluck Shaming Podcast. I'm Karen.
Speaker 1: I'm Christina. Uh, this is we have a very exciting
Speaker 1: thing to tell you. So we're just going to power through.
Speaker 1: What an exciting episode. Even I'm excited. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: not nervous, but I'm very you know what that takes. Yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, while you're on the edge of
Speaker 1: your seats, don't fast forward, because we have some ship
Speaker 1: to tell you. Uh. Come c us live on Friday,
Speaker 1: March seventeenth. Yes, that is St. Patrick's Day, and I'm
Speaker 1: just as unexcited about it as you are. Come see
Speaker 1: Nacho Bitches with me and Blair Saki at New York
Speaker 1: Comedy Club. Used code Nacho for ten dollar tickets. It's
Speaker 1: eleven fifteen pm and if you're a sloppy drunk, I
Speaker 1: will personally kick you out. Thanks. Friday March Wendy Starling
Speaker 1: and I co host The March edition of Glamourpus at
Speaker 1: Zinc Bar in the West Village, eighty two West third Street.
Speaker 1: Seven thirty pm is the showtime. Uh tickets are fifteen bucks.
Speaker 1: You have to be twenty one and up and the
Speaker 1: link for tickets is in the description of this podcast. Dallas,
Speaker 1: Texas on Wednesday, March eight. We are going to be
Speaker 1: at the Improv. Yes, that's next week. Come We're ticket
Speaker 1: sales are great, but they're not great enough because they're
Speaker 1: still tickets flat. We're monsters Salt Lake City. You got Mormons.
Speaker 1: You're also gonna get a little dose of Kurt and
Speaker 1: Christina Thursday, March nine at Wise, guys, you should come.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really fun. We're gonna do the Guys
Speaker 1: Who Fucked Experience show and it's gonna change your life. Yay.
Speaker 1: And if you guys want more Guys We Fucked, you
Speaker 1: can sign up for Howell. We just did a really
Speaker 1: awesome bonus episode where if you remember last year we
Speaker 1: all went and saw fifty Shades of gray, and then
Speaker 1: this year we didn't want to take anything away from you,
Speaker 1: so we saw fifties shades darker. But if you want
Speaker 1: to listen to that cap you gotta sign up for
Speaker 1: how Motherfucker. We went to the movie theater at eleven
Speaker 1: turn a m a m. On a weekday, on a
Speaker 1: weekday and commitment. Yes, we were not the only ones there.
Speaker 1: I said, I wasn't gonna I will. I'm always comfortable
Speaker 1: going to the movies alone. But I was like, Christina,
Speaker 1: you have to comp me because I don't want to
Speaker 1: be the girl Am Starker by yourself eating an egg
Speaker 1: McMuffin by myself, which I did, but I just did
Speaker 1: it with someone else. I gotta say that movie made
Speaker 1: me a little horny anyway, if you want to listen
Speaker 1: to what we have to say about that. And we
Speaker 1: have so many other bonus episodes in which I get stoned.
Speaker 1: Yeah we read uh listener, not hate mail, but like
Speaker 1: this is what you're doing wrong. Sometimes we just play
Speaker 1: music on Spotify t we like sometimes I sing um
Speaker 1: throwback songs like I was gonna clean my room then
Speaker 1: I got high? You did do that? Anyway, It's really
Speaker 1: it's a fun time. It's it's it's guys who sucked unleashed.
Speaker 1: So if you want to sign up for that, you
Speaker 1: go to Howell dot FM, slash g WF and uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna read a couple of ads. Unleash makes it
Speaker 1: sound like we're showing our boobies. We are, but you
Speaker 1: can't see it. You can hear it. You can hear
Speaker 1: the boob flop against the mic. And if that doesn't
Speaker 1: give you a bone or I can't help you, that
Speaker 1: are funny. If we did like an audio, Girl's gone
Speaker 1: wild sucky. You just hear our shirts coming up. It's
Speaker 1: just like rustling against the mic and you hear the
Speaker 1: beer splashing on the titties and we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's so cold. What. Um, we're gonna read a couple
Speaker 1: of ads for you, and uh, minerroll is wanting us
Speaker 1: to ask you to do a listener survey. So that's
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We do what we're told, not all
Speaker 1: the time, but um in order. Yeah, we need your help,
Speaker 1: so please, if you want, you can go to pod
Speaker 1: survey dot com slash g w F if you've already
Speaker 1: taken the survey. First of all, thank you for like
Speaker 1: doing that. We really appreciate it. Second of all, it's
Speaker 1: a different survey this time, so like, if you want
Speaker 1: to do it again, you should. Um, you can enter
Speaker 1: to win a hundred dollar Amazon gift card and you'll
Speaker 1: make pretty cool. You'll you'll you'll make me happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're probably gonna win the gift card because you know,
Speaker 1: like one person I'm gonna do. Wow, you've got a
Speaker 1: lot of time in your hands. Um No, seriously, again,
Speaker 1: that's a pod survey dot com slash gwf uh pod
Speaker 1: survey spelled p O D s U r v e y.
Speaker 1: They asked me to spell it out. But I know
Speaker 1: you're better than that, guys. But thanks for your help.
Speaker 1: We appreciate it absolutely, and thanks so much to our
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Speaker 1: been waiting for. You didn't even know you were waiting for.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think that you were about to say
Speaker 1: what you're about to say? Yes, all my life for you.
Speaker 1: This is the This is the only thing that I
Speaker 1: that I knew I was definitely going to do. It's
Speaker 1: the only thing in my life. What guys, we wrote
Speaker 1: a book. Well, we're right, yeah, we wrote it. We
Speaker 1: wrote a bote it. We wrote we a book, a
Speaker 1: fucking book, motherfucker. That is so weird. It's very weird.
Speaker 1: It's very exciting. I can't believe. A fifth grade teacher,
Speaker 1: Mrs Stanko wrote in my yearbook, Karin, I would like
Speaker 1: the first autograph copy of your book, of your first book,
Speaker 1: And I can't guarantee her the first copy, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna send Mrs Stanko a book and she's gonna be,
Speaker 1: I mean, perhaps a little turned off. Really, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what she's gonna go. Well, at least
Speaker 1: she's right. No, Stanko was pretty chill. You know, she
Speaker 1: has a kid, she's had sex at least one time,
Speaker 1: so we know that. Hey, miss Stanko, you shit. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're writing a book and it's uh, we wrote a book.
Speaker 1: We wrote a book. We wrote it, we're editing it.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's so weird. But this is it was
Speaker 1: an interesting process because we Yeah, by interesting, we mean grueling,
Speaker 1: almost hard. It's very hard. There was a period of
Speaker 1: time where I didn't sleep for probably five days, went
Speaker 1: mentally ill. I don't even drink coffee. I drink so
Speaker 1: much coffee I now own a coffee machine. Whoa wow,
Speaker 1: Oh that's a that's a lot. That's do you want
Speaker 1: from zero to hero real quick? Well? Because a friend
Speaker 1: he will go unnamed, gave me an adderall and I didn't.
Speaker 1: I refuse to take it because I was like, this
Speaker 1: is like if I was playing baseball and I started
Speaker 1: taking steroids. But I just having the adderall in the
Speaker 1: case in front of me was the adderall perfect, often
Speaker 1: looking at it, and then I kept fighting and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't need you. I kept looking at it.
Speaker 1: I don't need you, need you in my life no more.
Speaker 1: You have problems focusing, though I do. I can't. Maybe
Speaker 1: you have a little a D H D that because
Speaker 1: I don't think I have that. Oh do I just
Speaker 1: have procrastination? I'm going to have that too, but I
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to sit in one space anyway.
Speaker 1: This book. People have talked about to us about writing
Speaker 1: a book since the very demitting and it just didn't
Speaker 1: feel right. It's like, what then do I to say?
Speaker 1: I don't know. They just wanted to like figuring this
Speaker 1: out myself. Yeah. They basically wanted like a supermarket porn. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we were like a bug, No, nothing going to
Speaker 1: give you, because if we're going to write a book,
Speaker 1: we're gonna write a great fucking book. And uh the
Speaker 1: trash we leave for this podcast yeah yeah you guys
Speaker 1: know you um, but yeah, we had an outline all
Speaker 1: prepped out all planned out of what we were going
Speaker 1: to do with this book structure, and we were amped
Speaker 1: on it and and then we start she sat down to
Speaker 1: write it. We're like, okay, let me look at this outline,
Speaker 1: and then we expand upon it, because that's how one
Speaker 1: writes a book. Not on not Corona Christina. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: sat down and wrote this ship from our heart. We
Speaker 1: scrapped the outline completely. Well, it was more like we
Speaker 1: sat down on the outline and then we're like, this
Speaker 1: seems boring. I don't want to write any of us.
Speaker 1: I just started looking at the topics and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to say about I think there's
Speaker 1: a there's one day I remember on tour like Koran.
Speaker 1: I don't want to write about any of the ship.
Speaker 1: I want to write about like but stuff and like
Speaker 1: going to the ear, like from sex and and yeah,
Speaker 1: sexual adventures and stuff. So that's what we ended up
Speaker 1: writing the Well, that was my Yeah, Basically, we had
Speaker 1: this whole outline and we're gonna like both write the
Speaker 1: stuff about it, and then we're like to stay up
Speaker 1: all night and only write portions at four UM. So
Speaker 1: that we just each kind of took a half of
Speaker 1: the book. Yeah, I ended up writing not a lot
Speaker 1: about sex. I was like, you know what, I don't
Speaker 1: really talking about sex. I wrote about being a person
Speaker 1: and self confidence and trashy things that people say on
Speaker 1: the internet. I love it, and not giving a ship
Speaker 1: and being your own woman and or man. It was
Speaker 1: like a little uh Krin's philosophy. Yeah, it's really. The
Speaker 1: point is this is we're very proud of this, and
Speaker 1: we poured our hearts. Damer killed those guys and we
Speaker 1: almost died. Do you know that if you write a book,
Speaker 1: you almost die in your head because you're like, if
Speaker 1: I don't sleep, go another day without sleep, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: emerge someone. But and also you kept it a secret
Speaker 1: this whole time. I'm so proud of you. I mean
Speaker 1: that was different people who came over and stuff. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they knew, but I was like, don't say anything. I'll
Speaker 1: kill you if it came over you because I had it.
Speaker 1: Just like trip over all your work and be like, sorry,
Speaker 1: those are my book pages and here I'm writing a book.
Speaker 1: Don't tell anybody that I'm writing a book. But I'm
Speaker 1: writing a book. You just have a big post it
Speaker 1: to yourself, right, book? I did that's exactly what's on
Speaker 1: my off this wall extraly. No, but I I started
Speaker 1: talking about things that i've i've actually do, not I
Speaker 1: have never said on the podcast like I've thought I did.
Speaker 1: It allowed me to dive into my past and my
Speaker 1: personal experiences with men with Stephen, with with getting putting it.
Speaker 1: It was such a cathartic, cool experience because I've never
Speaker 1: expanded upon all the ship that we've talked about on
Speaker 1: the podcast before. And uh, I'm so excited for everybody
Speaker 1: to read it. Yeah. It's nice to sit down and
Speaker 1: right and like no one can say anything to you
Speaker 1: while you're saying what you feel. So even if people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I'm offended, like it doesn't matter because
Speaker 1: I already wrote it. I'll give a ship. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: already printed. I'm done. You gotta get offended in your
Speaker 1: room alone. Now it's gonna be okay, though, You're gonna
Speaker 1: be fine. So yeah, So this book is available for
Speaker 1: pre order, and I know you're like, ah, we have
Speaker 1: cand just wait until it comes out. No, you can't know,
Speaker 1: because that's what we get on fancy lists. If a
Speaker 1: lot of people pre ordering that happened, we worked, we
Speaker 1: found out like last week that it was that they
Speaker 1: wanted to that the publishing company really liked the book
Speaker 1: and they wanted to announce it super early for pre order,
Speaker 1: and like we way earlier worked really hard to get
Speaker 1: a photo shoot in to finish this cover. We've been
Speaker 1: working NonStop all weeks. So we would really really appreciate
Speaker 1: it if you're gonna buy the book anyway to preorder it. Now,
Speaker 1: what's the book called. It's called Fucked Being sexually explorative
Speaker 1: and self confident in a world that's screwed. You put
Speaker 1: me on the spot, but I would glad I remember,
Speaker 1: And I was like, did you say it slow because
Speaker 1: you're trying to remember it? No, Well, that's right, But
Speaker 1: also I think it's a great title. It is really
Speaker 1: good guy wrote it. But cover looks really good, and uh,
Speaker 1: you have access to our most inner thoughts that are
Speaker 1: actually well thought out, well written totally and shout out
Speaker 1: to de Guerrero's too. Is the photographer behind the original
Speaker 1: Guys we Fucked Avatar? Yes, and she were like, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be cool if we came full circle? And then
Speaker 1: she photographed us for a book and that's what happened,
Speaker 1: so very beautiful and write book. We really moved ourselves
Speaker 1: with this. Honestly, Yeah, I'm touched. Are you guys touched?
Speaker 1: You're sitting at your desk, I know you're not doing work.
Speaker 1: Many times? Did you cry while writing the book? Eight? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think I only cried once. Why did you cry?
Speaker 1: I probably was listening to Atlantis Morrison. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I dug I read. I pretty much read almost every
Speaker 1: email in our inbox because one of the things that
Speaker 1: we include in the book is, uh, our little excerpts
Speaker 1: subject lines from from our inbox. Our inbox is the
Speaker 1: craziest thing. Our inbox is a treasure chest. It's an eye.
Speaker 1: It's a window into the world of what everybody's thinking
Speaker 1: about sexuality. Like the treasure chest. It also deep dirt.
Speaker 1: It's a nightmare. Yeah, but reading some of the stories
Speaker 1: that I had gazed glossed over because we don't have
Speaker 1: time to read everything, Wow, and putting them all together,
Speaker 1: like putting over, Like if you take all the subject
Speaker 1: lines about rape, putting them all together, and you're like,
Speaker 1: fucka dude, this is a fucking problem. And a lot
Speaker 1: of people have had a lot of people have just
Speaker 1: on their cat I gotta say, like twelve people, and
Speaker 1: I was like, that's a lot. Why cats not dogs?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe the dog, I don't know, because dogs,
Speaker 1: I don't know. You would think the cat has better
Speaker 1: reflexes sometimes cats like lazy and sleeping and maybe like
Speaker 1: are easier to hide. And well most of the twelve
Speaker 1: cases were like the jiz like um like it projectiled
Speaker 1: onto the cat. So it wasn't like because I was like,
Speaker 1: don't you masturbate onto your cat? That's not didn't Trusty
Speaker 1: Dodge say something about just getting on her cat? She did,
Speaker 1: and I think that's after we got all these emails
Speaker 1: right after her episode be like I just don't mind cat.
Speaker 1: I just don't mind cat. Like, guys, stop chi cat.
Speaker 1: We're gonna call Pete on you know. I mean, at
Speaker 1: least you're not having sex with your cat. But it's good.
Speaker 1: That's a good start. Just don't just on your cat.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I uh the tears were from exhaustion,
Speaker 1: Oh yes, uh me not being able to sit still
Speaker 1: and going nuts. That was probably also a result from exhaustion,
Speaker 1: and also just reading some of the emails, I'm like, god, God,
Speaker 1: damn it. Oh you know what I remember when I cried.
Speaker 1: It was when I was going, uh, like yeah, deep
Speaker 1: Atlanta's Morrissett style, deep into I had to like relive
Speaker 1: my breakup. Yes, that's why. Yeah, did you talk about
Speaker 1: that Santa Slavski that ship. I went back to the
Speaker 1: time and the place and I really felt, do you
Speaker 1: know that's actually That was the other time, one of
Speaker 1: the one of the eight times I cried was because
Speaker 1: I was writing about Stya and like I kind of
Speaker 1: went really in depth with that whole thing, like meeting
Speaker 1: you know, all that stuff. And uh, Stephen is editing
Speaker 1: his his director's real right now and he had a
Speaker 1: picture or he had to. And because I had just
Speaker 1: gotten done live live, because when you have to write
Speaker 1: something like to me, I want to live through it
Speaker 1: and then type you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 1: don't want to, but I had to, right, I mean
Speaker 1: that's how it's gonna be good, right, And uh and
Speaker 1: I did that, and then I came down talking about
Speaker 1: this like we're dust here, like this is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 1: I wrote all my beats, I scored, I scored my scripts.
Speaker 1: Um and she was in a clip. She was in
Speaker 1: one of his music videos. A while back, and that
Speaker 1: clip was in his reel and I got I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna have her and huh and he's like,
Speaker 1: what the funk, Christine. I'm like, I'm sorry. I was
Speaker 1: writing and I was just reliving this story. Just no,
Speaker 1: keep her in, keep her in. I'll be mad. And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I'll take her out. I'll take her
Speaker 1: out of the real No, I'll be more mad if
Speaker 1: you take her out. And uh, you know, so you
Speaker 1: know tough. Times was tough in my apartment while I
Speaker 1: was writing this. Yeah, it wasn't. My apartment felt very
Speaker 1: hot at times, it felt suffocating. It's the point is,
Speaker 1: we would be honored if you pre ordered our book.
Speaker 1: I don't know about I don't know if you'd be on.
Speaker 1: I would be honored. You'd probably be like, just do it.
Speaker 1: I mean honored. I was honored to have been asked
Speaker 1: to write a book. I would appreciate it greatly. We
Speaker 1: would appreciate it. I mean, it's good. Just do it.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good. I stand behind it
Speaker 1: to um. And also if you don't want to read
Speaker 1: it yourself, like I know, we have like some like
Speaker 1: dude listeners or some older I mean it's for everyone,
Speaker 1: but you know, I mean it's m's perspective, So I
Speaker 1: think it's like also a great it's a great gift
Speaker 1: option for like a young young a young woman in
Speaker 1: your life, Like I'm going to ask all my guy
Speaker 1: friends like by this were like a young woman who
Speaker 1: you think could really would really appreciate. I think it's
Speaker 1: a great book for everyone, but I think really like
Speaker 1: a young woman is really going to benefit from me,
Speaker 1: or a woman who hasn't doesn't feel like you haven't
Speaker 1: felt like what your purposes uh in life yet, or
Speaker 1: you haven't like you're not fully confident in yourself, you
Speaker 1: haven't uh kind of piqued sexually or feel shameful about
Speaker 1: something to do with your sexuality. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of what it what it is
Speaker 1: for me is we've done We've been doing this podcast
Speaker 1: for three years. We've gotten hundreds of thousands of emails
Speaker 1: that I've fucking read them all. We've talked to people
Speaker 1: on our touring shows afterwards, and they tell us very
Speaker 1: intimate things on stage and off stage, and so I
Speaker 1: feel like I have this unique bank of knowledge and
Speaker 1: I go, Okay, if I have a daughter. What if
Speaker 1: I had a third if my daughter grew up in
Speaker 1: this world? But if you just had a thirteen year
Speaker 1: old daughter, if him out of the womb when she
Speaker 1: was thirteen, and I was like, that was easy. I
Speaker 1: don't even have to do anything for the first thirteen years.
Speaker 1: I'm a magical sourcer her anyway, But what would I
Speaker 1: want to say? What would I want my daughter to
Speaker 1: know how to be prepared? And my my nephew, Brantley,
Speaker 1: I go, he's gonna be a teenager at some point
Speaker 1: in the future, very near future. What do I think
Speaker 1: he should know? How should he reflect on hisself and
Speaker 1: and and be become self aware and uh, be your
Speaker 1: own person and be happy and shamefully and also just
Speaker 1: think how cool you're gonna look reading a book? Who
Speaker 1: does that anymore? Walking around with a book. Maybe you'll
Speaker 1: end up on an Instagram account about reading books. Oh
Speaker 1: how guys reading? Oh my god, how cool would you
Speaker 1: look if you were right reading this feminist book? Man?
Speaker 1: But it was called fucked? So are you reading porn?
Speaker 1: You're like, no, I'm reading these two forward thinking women's
Speaker 1: thoughts on sexuality and how it plays a role in
Speaker 1: our cultural society today, and then they're gonna be like yo, bro,
Speaker 1: and you're like, because you're droughting in pussy. Hey, sorry
Speaker 1: about last Night Comedy dot Com slash book. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where you go. Just go to our website and
Speaker 1: then it'll be glowing a little a little tad that says,
Speaker 1: book that our friend Mark and slash web designer speedily
Speaker 1: put together for us. Thank you again. Sorry about last
Speaker 1: Night Comedy dot Com slash book. That's where you go.
Speaker 1: You can get it from any of your favorite retailers,
Speaker 1: and we really sincerely appreciate it. Yeah here, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can't believe I kept that secret. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think it's one of the only secrets I've ever kept.
Speaker 1: It is I've told every and I don't mean to.
Speaker 1: Just part of the reason that we were able to
Speaker 1: do this special announcement is because I kept it a secret.
Speaker 1: So we all want Yeah, we all benefited. It's beautiful, guys. Wow,
Speaker 1: well okay, well so now onto our guests. We're just
Speaker 1: so we're come with emotion from our own accomplishments. We're
Speaker 1: so great. Oh my god, I really got through it.
Speaker 1: Speaking of people who are very accomplished and wrote a
Speaker 1: book and wrote a book. The this interview UH is
Speaker 1: We're really excited to share this interview with you. Um
Speaker 1: with two amazing, strong, powerful young women. They both attended
Speaker 1: the University of North Carolina. They were both sexual assaulted
Speaker 1: well attending school there, and they both ended up joining
Speaker 1: forces and created uh, this amazing organization called nd Rape
Speaker 1: on Campus dot org. They were featured in the documentary
Speaker 1: The Hunting Ground about rape on college campuses, and they
Speaker 1: have a book out called We Believe You. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: please welcome to the show. Annie Clark and I'm Andrea Pino. Okay,
Speaker 1: we are here with Amy and Andrea Andrea Andrea Andrea.
Speaker 1: I kept saying area, and I'm like, what if I
Speaker 1: just came back from London and I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: pronouncing everything weird? And you got it right. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you, so many people can just butcher it. I
Speaker 1: mean it's not that hard, right, Yeah, there's like I
Speaker 1: think there's like, isn't there like two possible ways to
Speaker 1: say it? It's Andrea or Andrea Andrea? I guess Andrea, Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: how are you guys doing? Are you guys doing good?
Speaker 1: We're good. We talk to the just make sure you're
Speaker 1: very close. Yeah, sorry, yeah, we're up at four thirty.
Speaker 1: Took the bus. Oh that's right, you did. You came
Speaker 1: all away from d C and uh, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We are. You are both featured in the documentary The
Speaker 1: Hunting Ground and uh and do you guys get tired
Speaker 1: of talking about that? Yeah? You know. It's it's funny
Speaker 1: because like now my Twitter biography is I was in
Speaker 1: a movie me once. I just leave it there. It's
Speaker 1: like it's these people used to like mess be on
Speaker 1: LinkedIn and be like are you that girl? Like no description,
Speaker 1: just are you that girl? Like sure, I'm that girl? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I am with you. Yeah. And I literally just started
Speaker 1: saying I was in a movie once. And we were
Speaker 1: we were taking a flight to London, and the person
Speaker 1: who was taking our tickets at our at our plane
Speaker 1: was just staring at me and he's like, I think
Speaker 1: I've seen you somewhere, Like, well, we're in Iceland, so
Speaker 1: I don't think you've seen me often. Damn. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I was in a movie once. He's like oh yeah
Speaker 1: that so you get the recognition. But then they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was from the hunt Oh man, sorry, like that's
Speaker 1: got to be And it was like really popular in
Speaker 1: Canada too, it was very popular and we had a
Speaker 1: flight it's and I just stopped the whole line of
Speaker 1: people that were picking up tickets and she's like, can
Speaker 1: I get a photo with you? Yeah, that's really nice.
Speaker 1: But everyone's like, wow, you're going to prevent me from
Speaker 1: getting on my plane. Pas. What's the most frustrating reaction
Speaker 1: that you get when people recognize you from the Hunting Ground? Um?
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is This is frustrating, and
Speaker 1: I think it's actually one of the better things to
Speaker 1: come out of the film. It's sort of like a
Speaker 1: double edged sword that now people feel like they can
Speaker 1: talk about things and they don't feel alone anymore. But
Speaker 1: it's like there's so many survivors and just you know,
Speaker 1: when we're out, especially if we're like out um together
Speaker 1: having coffee or whatever, and people see us and make
Speaker 1: that connection and come up and just start telling their
Speaker 1: their story. And I mean, I think it's amazing that
Speaker 1: it's given, you know, so many people the outlet. But
Speaker 1: it's also like sometimes you're just drinking your coffee. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you just don't want to talk about rape. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's okay. Or sometimes you're a brunch yeah, like
Speaker 1: friends and you just happens a lot. Or sometimes you
Speaker 1: just want to watch Netflix and not see your face
Speaker 1: on a preview. Oh yeah, that blows on the right side.
Speaker 1: It's it's in the empowered women category, so that you
Speaker 1: might be interested in all the time. Though usually I
Speaker 1: really like this movie. It's like usually after like watching
Speaker 1: Supergirl or something like which is totally fine, totally Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just that's just that's odd. So like, did you
Speaker 1: ever think, like, oh one day, oh wow, No, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't even like to have my picture taken,
Speaker 1: which is why I love this podcast. Yeah, you can
Speaker 1: just talk. Yeah, you can show up. It's great. However,
Speaker 1: so let's start. How did how did you? How did
Speaker 1: the Hunting Ground come about? How did they find you? Too?
Speaker 1: Ladies specifically want to start. Yeah, so, um, I was
Speaker 1: a junior at the University of North Carolina that will
Speaker 1: hopefully beat Duke uh in a few hours. Um, you
Speaker 1: still cheer for the mesa. You know a lot of
Speaker 1: people take that very personally. They're like, how dare you
Speaker 1: cheer for the school? Um? It does become a thing,
Speaker 1: especially during March. But oh god, yeah, sports people. Um
Speaker 1: but yeah, so, um I went to you and see
Speaker 1: and um um after experiencing sexual assault, UM, I kind
Speaker 1: of dove into asking these big questions. That's what I
Speaker 1: do to deal with my problems. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: why is it that I didn't know what to do
Speaker 1: what happened to me? And I learned about this law
Speaker 1: called Title nine. And I knew about it because you know,
Speaker 1: we we kind of heard about it in terms of
Speaker 1: sports equity. Sure, that's why women get to play sports,
Speaker 1: and that's why I get to go to school, because
Speaker 1: it's gender equality is the main Yeah. Well, what it
Speaker 1: actually is, it's a very short law and and if
Speaker 1: Betsy divoce does not get confirmed, it will hopefully still
Speaker 1: be in the books. Um. But the way it is,
Speaker 1: it's just a simple sentence and it basically guarantees anyone
Speaker 1: the right to an equal education, regardless of their gender.
Speaker 1: And it's been interpreted by the Obama administration to also
Speaker 1: include gender, gender, gender identity, genderal performance and also cover um,
Speaker 1: sexually based crimes, so sexual harassment, sexual assault, and not
Speaker 1: just rape, but any type of sexual sault. As defined
Speaker 1: by the FBI, which includes digital penetration as well as
Speaker 1: other types of violence perpetrated without consent um. So when
Speaker 1: learning this, I'm like, you know, why is it that
Speaker 1: as a student, I didn't know that this was a thing. Um.
Speaker 1: So I actually ended up reaching out to Annie. And
Speaker 1: the way I reached out to Annie Um was because
Speaker 1: I had used this box system that allowed me to
Speaker 1: anonymously report my sexual assault and I learned that she
Speaker 1: had created it as a student, I was like, she
Speaker 1: seems cool, I'm gonna reach out. Was it a cardboard
Speaker 1: box that you just put? Like, I mean, I kind
Speaker 1: of think about if you're at a restaurant you want
Speaker 1: to leave anonymous comments, And but it was in the
Speaker 1: in the student bathrooms and the gems and and the
Speaker 1: student union. So if you wanted to go and report
Speaker 1: something or get resources, nobody would have to see you
Speaker 1: do it. And so the idea UM when I came
Speaker 1: forward and I actually told somebody, I was blamed, and again,
Speaker 1: trying to deal with the problem, I was trying to
Speaker 1: figure out, how can we fix the system so survivors
Speaker 1: who report sexual assault aren't blamed? And so this was,
Speaker 1: you know, one idea at one school. And you know,
Speaker 1: around this time, Andrea did reach out to me after
Speaker 1: realizing that I created that system at U n C.
Speaker 1: And at that time, I graduated and was working at
Speaker 1: the University of Oregon, and I was hearing stories from
Speaker 1: my students that sounded very, very familiar to my own
Speaker 1: and really recognizing that this wasn't about one institution, one school,
Speaker 1: or one story. This was a national problem. Problem. Yeah, huge,
Speaker 1: I mean huge fucking problem. This. Yeah, it happens to
Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I think that when when
Speaker 1: seeing that it had happened to so many of my
Speaker 1: friends and they had completely changed the way they acted
Speaker 1: around our friend groups. And when learning about Title nine,
Speaker 1: I learned that, like, my school was literally getting federal
Speaker 1: funding to adhere to this law, and they weren't doing
Speaker 1: enough because it was still happening and we simply didn't
Speaker 1: know that we even had rights. So we learned that
Speaker 1: we could actually file federal complaint of our university was
Speaker 1: not adhering Title nine. And we also know that we
Speaker 1: didn't need lawyers, which was kind of cool to file
Speaker 1: the complaint didn't We did not, And that was like
Speaker 1: life changing. And I actually learned this while writing a
Speaker 1: paper for political science class, which was awesome because then
Speaker 1: I got completely distracted for the rest of the semester um.
Speaker 1: But it's like the biggest project ever, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1: That was like my final paper was like pace of
Speaker 1: the Blind. Um. So then we're like today, right, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: good but um yeah. So what we did was we
Speaker 1: actually decided to follow utter complaint. And at first people
Speaker 1: were like, oh, you know, they're so in over their head.
Speaker 1: And remember one of the first interviews I did was
Speaker 1: with a local UM news agency and they said, um,
Speaker 1: you know, what does it feel like to be UM
Speaker 1: filing this complaint? I was like, well, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just a twenty year old woman taking on a two
Speaker 1: hunter vial University. And I was like, UM, I regret
Speaker 1: this UM, but I'm like, you know what I'm not.
Speaker 1: And I remember calling my parents to be like Mom, Dad,
Speaker 1: I'm doing this thing and you might see my face
Speaker 1: and the news and I promised, I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to jail and I'll be fine and I won't
Speaker 1: get sued by anyone, I think. UM. So we actually
Speaker 1: ended up pushing the complaint to January because we realized
Speaker 1: that no one was really going to cover it in
Speaker 1: December UM. But when we followed the complaint UM in
Speaker 1: January of UM, it simply just wasn't done before. UM.
Speaker 1: You had had a couple of complaints being followed before,
Speaker 1: but they had never really been filed by units by
Speaker 1: twenty some things without attorneys. UM. And the reason we
Speaker 1: did this is because we realized that if we combined
Speaker 1: our personal story and we combined some type of political action,
Speaker 1: we could possibly create a grassroots movement. And pretty quickly
Speaker 1: we shoud hearing from students at other universities saying that
Speaker 1: it was happening to them too, and they wanted to
Speaker 1: do what we did. UM. And it was around February
Speaker 1: or so we had already heard from a few other
Speaker 1: students at different universities and they had begun also starting
Speaker 1: to follow their complaints that UM. Kirby dick Um who's
Speaker 1: the director of the film, and Emmy's Urying who's a producer,
Speaker 1: we're coincidently enough actually touring with their previous documentary in
Speaker 1: the Invisible War that was nominated for the fern Oscar
Speaker 1: and what the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance and UM
Speaker 1: I had actually put up a poster on my hall.
Speaker 1: I was an r A and um, one of my
Speaker 1: residents I had encouraged her to go, and then she's like, O,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. I'm real excite. I see a documentary
Speaker 1: and the documentary about sexual assault in the military and
Speaker 1: how um it's also covered up and there's this level
Speaker 1: of institutional betrayal there. So they're they're boring with this
Speaker 1: film around the same time that this is happening. So
Speaker 1: then my resident, who's really cool, her name is Jennifer
Speaker 1: no Wiki. I think she's in the Peace Corps now, um,
Speaker 1: she yeah, she went to the she stayed there and
Speaker 1: she went to stay for the Q and A. And
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, this really sounds like what's happening
Speaker 1: to my r A. Like it's not in the military,
Speaker 1: but it's very similar, like universities are covering it up.
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to impersonate Kirby Dick. He's like,
Speaker 1: tell me more about that. That's Kirby talks and and
Speaker 1: pretty much immediately, um, I got a call um from
Speaker 1: Kirby saying that he wanted to talk more about what
Speaker 1: was happening from college campuses and that they had were
Speaker 1: possibly considering working on a project. And again, you know,
Speaker 1: as as a twentysomething hearing from some director in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is kind of cool. I never
Speaker 1: thought I would work on this film, but sure. And
Speaker 1: at first and I thought that we were just going
Speaker 1: to consult on it, that we were going to help
Speaker 1: them put a documentary together. Um. But then like by March,
Speaker 1: we had UM, we had worked with the New York
Speaker 1: Times and they had done the major article on campus
Speaker 1: sexual assault. And it was really interesting too, because when
Speaker 1: we decided to file the complaint where we're reaching out
Speaker 1: to all these news organizations, they're basically like, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: this is bullshit. You're not going to do anything. But
Speaker 1: when the Department of Education came back um and said yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to investigate this, that's when it became a
Speaker 1: front page New York Times news story. And that was
Speaker 1: one of the first ones. UM, Like Andrea was saying,
Speaker 1: that really connected all of these dots, and you know,
Speaker 1: you had people at UC Berkeley telling the same story
Speaker 1: as students at Dartmouth, and the same story as a
Speaker 1: community college in North Carolina and at UNC Chapel Hill.
Speaker 1: So it was this much bigger thing than one institution,
Speaker 1: and like Andrea was saying, um, we chose to tell
Speaker 1: our stories, and I wasn't very public. Andrea had written
Speaker 1: I think um in the student paper a little bit
Speaker 1: about her experience, but realizing that we needed and we
Speaker 1: also had the privilege to be able to be public
Speaker 1: about this, and so a lot of other people can't
Speaker 1: write and they're either not believed or they're living in
Speaker 1: direct fear. And we it sounds weird to have a
Speaker 1: conversation about privilege and sexual assault, but we did have
Speaker 1: the privilege to be public, and so using our faces
Speaker 1: and our and our stories, you know, that was relatable.
Speaker 1: People could look at the paper and say that looks
Speaker 1: like me, that sounds like my story. So it was
Speaker 1: part of a media strategy, if you will, but also um,
Speaker 1: trying to really create culture change. Yeah, get the coverage
Speaker 1: of this issue deserves absolutely. And at first, like like
Speaker 1: I said, Kirby and Amy were basically just kind of
Speaker 1: tossing around the idea of working in a documentary. And
Speaker 1: that's just because at this time, there weren't a lot
Speaker 1: of public survivors that were sharing their story. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was Annie and me, and you know, there was
Speaker 1: Sophie Currascic at Berkeley, and there was Hope Brand and
Speaker 1: Mia Ferguson at Swarthmore and um Amherst. You had had
Speaker 1: a couple of students here and there at different universities.
Speaker 1: But again, I mean you're talking in one hand, you
Speaker 1: could kind how many survivors republic, But really, by the
Speaker 1: middle of I mean, this had begun to explode as
Speaker 1: as a national movement. And that's really when Amy and
Speaker 1: Kirby were like, you know, we're going to make this film.
Speaker 1: And that's one Annie and I decided to move to
Speaker 1: l A to work on this film. Yeah. Yeah, The
Speaker 1: whole dropping college thing was like not my parents were
Speaker 1: not into that. Yeah, but are you glad you did it?
Speaker 1: I mean, this documentary has reached a lot of people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I went back, but I think it was
Speaker 1: definitely something that um you know, I did it for
Speaker 1: many reasons because by um By, like April right around
Speaker 1: when we started working actually filming with a hunting ground folks.
Speaker 1: Um while still at U n C. When you're one
Speaker 1: of the only public survivors, it's a very very hard
Speaker 1: life on college campuses, and um well, I mean it
Speaker 1: was already hard being a minority student. Um, I already
Speaker 1: felt it was hard already being in college. I'm the
Speaker 1: first person my family to go to school. Um I'm
Speaker 1: from a predominantly Hispanic area. I'm out of state, and
Speaker 1: as it is, there's many there's few out of state students,
Speaker 1: even fewer minority out of state students at Carolina. UM So,
Speaker 1: even being marginalized to start off, and then being that
Speaker 1: public rape girl made it really hard to be a student. Right,
Speaker 1: it's got it. How does it feel to have that
Speaker 1: define you? I mean, now you've kind of turned it
Speaker 1: into something amazing and productive, like yeah, but nobody's business.
Speaker 1: But how do you feel about that? It's it's just
Speaker 1: is it is really interesting, and it's kind of you know,
Speaker 1: have some frunds that are that are in the industry,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of I almost feel like it's kind
Speaker 1: of like being an actor and then like trying to
Speaker 1: be a normal human and like not being associated to
Speaker 1: that movie you that one time you might not like
Speaker 1: any more or ever, like, um, it's ripe. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, absolutely, I mean, but I mean I feel
Speaker 1: it's similar to like, you know, some actors that play
Speaker 1: survivors or that play controversial figures and like they're associated
Speaker 1: with that one story all the time, and and I
Speaker 1: think it's it's very similar. In college, it was like
Speaker 1: I'm that girl who's always controversial. Um, I was involved
Speaker 1: in campus and it made it nearly impossible to continue
Speaker 1: doing what I was doing. I was in a student government.
Speaker 1: How wide it Why, Well, because I was just associated
Speaker 1: with being controversial, which is I mean, is bullshit. But
Speaker 1: at the time of the Yeah, but I know exactly
Speaker 1: what you mean. Like it's like you're at once, you're
Speaker 1: known as like Galho squawks, You're always known and absolutely
Speaker 1: speaking because I am at person. We also, I mean
Speaker 1: there was a retaliation and like I think you saw
Speaker 1: in the film, like of course there's going to be
Speaker 1: those online trolls, right who are going to tweet death
Speaker 1: threats and great threats to you. But also, um, like
Speaker 1: her dorm got broken into and we had we were
Speaker 1: getting personally moment. Yeah yeah, so like my dorms covered
Speaker 1: in the film. Yeah yeah, yeah, So like in April,
Speaker 1: right around Easter weekend of that year, my dorm was
Speaker 1: broken into and it wasn't necessarily my dorm room, but
Speaker 1: like my hall and like as an r A, like
Speaker 1: that was a pretty big deal. And also only that,
Speaker 1: but like I happened to be on duty. You know,
Speaker 1: I was the main r A because I didn't go
Speaker 1: home for Christmas Easter. But you know, I remember calling
Speaker 1: you like I have to report like an incident that
Speaker 1: I'm a victim of. And what's really sad too is that,
Speaker 1: like the university didn't really do anything. They sent out
Speaker 1: of you emails about the basketball game before they actually
Speaker 1: talked about this incident. It wasn't until one of my
Speaker 1: residents wrote a letitor the editor of the university even
Speaker 1: sent an email acknowledging the incident. It's it's so crazy
Speaker 1: because the lack of transparency the universities have about sexual assault.
Speaker 1: I get it, the branding things, squeaky clean image, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, but it seems to me that if a
Speaker 1: university was transparent about the sexual assaults and transparent about
Speaker 1: their proactiveness to figure it out, I would almost trust
Speaker 1: my kid to go there, way more than the university
Speaker 1: that's covering it up. And you would, and you would
Speaker 1: think so and hope so. And actually a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you know, um, look at the crime statistics data so
Speaker 1: every university um is required under this law called the
Speaker 1: clear He Act, to report crimes that happened on their campus.
Speaker 1: It's a geographic based law, so if it's off campus,
Speaker 1: they don't have to repe but every college, but every
Speaker 1: college has to. And so a lot of parents when
Speaker 1: they're looking our students are like, oh, zero sexual assaults
Speaker 1: at school, must be safer. And I always tell parents
Speaker 1: it's usually a red flag because either of me and
Speaker 1: students don't know how to report, they don't feel comfortable reporting,
Speaker 1: or the school is intentionally or unintentionally under reporting. And
Speaker 1: so those higher numbers could actually be more realistic and indicator.
Speaker 1: Say for campus, sure, it's like if you I mean
Speaker 1: like anytime, Like there's no campuses that have zeros, right,
Speaker 1: So that's just it's not realistic. Don't the subway one time?
Speaker 1: Like what does that even mean? That's ridiculous. Yeah, when
Speaker 1: Kreta and I went Kreta and I went to UNC
Speaker 1: Chapel Hill to give a talk at a ted X conference,
Speaker 1: and I remember this girl drove me around she's uh,
Speaker 1: after the like we performed a show or something, and
Speaker 1: she drove me around campus and she was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's the that's the I hadn't seen the documentary yet.
Speaker 1: She goes, that's the date rape frap, the date rape
Speaker 1: fret and I was like what and she just said
Speaker 1: it like oh yeah, like a matter of my friends
Speaker 1: got like right there, like wait, you're not that's bad.
Speaker 1: That's really bad. You know that's bad, right, She's like,
Speaker 1: I know, it says whatever. I'm like, what the fun Well,
Speaker 1: it becomes a joke because it's essay like s a
Speaker 1: sexual assault expected, like people just talk about it like
Speaker 1: it's like oh, it's like it almost seems the same
Speaker 1: as like you would say, like DTF like down to funk,
Speaker 1: Like it's like not the same thing at all. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about? And if it becomes like kind
Speaker 1: of this joke or that's just accepted by men women
Speaker 1: in between, then and you could go to anything, You
Speaker 1: could go to any school and say, you know, where
Speaker 1: is this notorious? You know sure, and they will know,
Speaker 1: students will know me, and you know, if students know,
Speaker 1: then the administration knows, and then they have a responsibility
Speaker 1: to do something. But unfortunately they're not being very proactive.
Speaker 1: And I was curious to know what was the fat
Speaker 1: that she pointed out because I almost feel like it's
Speaker 1: different with every class because it's like they clean house
Speaker 1: and they're trying to like make up for like we
Speaker 1: were raby ones, like we're not anymore, not anymore. It
Speaker 1: also seems like like that those those front houses are
Speaker 1: like also like the fun ones, like in quote like
Speaker 1: the one that people want to go to, which is
Speaker 1: even I mean her level of cagory with which she
Speaker 1: spoke she said the rape in the rape date what
Speaker 1: like it seemed like yeah, but they have like thum parties. Well,
Speaker 1: also everyone cosed in I think with like oh, it's
Speaker 1: not going to happen to me attitude, right, and until
Speaker 1: you know somebody or it happens to you, I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't think it's going to write And you hear
Speaker 1: these statistics and they're they're high. It's what one in four,
Speaker 1: one in five college age women will transfer, dropout, take
Speaker 1: their own lives, or graduate with the title of sexual
Speaker 1: assault survivor. And if that was anything else, like imagine
Speaker 1: if one of five people's mac books were stolen or
Speaker 1: got the flu, you know, like we would be having
Speaker 1: a serious conversation at very high levels. And it's taken
Speaker 1: eighteen and nineteen year old students to push schools to
Speaker 1: hold them, you know, accountable for breaking the law. One
Speaker 1: thing that I don't get why I don't get why
Speaker 1: colleges don't realize that being transparent about sexual assault is
Speaker 1: actually a good thing. Because if you talk about losing
Speaker 1: students and that's your you don't want to lose tuition dollars, right,
Speaker 1: So you're gonna lose a tuition dollars of maybe if
Speaker 1: I'm an active rapism of like not gonna go to
Speaker 1: that school they report me. You're losing. You're losing those people.
Speaker 1: You're not losing women are like men and women that
Speaker 1: could be victims of this crime. It's it just doesn't
Speaker 1: I still can't wrap my head around what the university
Speaker 1: had likes it is more likely to sue, who's more
Speaker 1: likely to not Yeah, because it's I mean, this is
Speaker 1: this is a problem that's been so put on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of the survivors that it's just a lot of
Speaker 1: shame involved in it. So people are going to say anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense. I mean the way it's
Speaker 1: explained in an documentary to me made sense. Everything at
Speaker 1: the end of the day is pretty much about money.
Speaker 1: Whether it be politics, whether it be school anything, it's
Speaker 1: all about money. I think the interesting thing too with
Speaker 1: with this issue in particular is I still feel like
Speaker 1: we are stuck in this archaic understanding of what is
Speaker 1: sexual assault. And I think that that's a lot to
Speaker 1: do with the way we were raised that you know,
Speaker 1: we were taught that if you dress a certain way,
Speaker 1: if you act a certain way, if you hang out
Speaker 1: with the right people, it's not going to happen to you.
Speaker 1: And that's just because we're not taught to fear the
Speaker 1: people that were actually hanging out with, Like we think
Speaker 1: that it's a sketchy person in the corner, which is
Speaker 1: why those crime statistics are such a misnomerus because like
Speaker 1: those are the minority of sexual assult It's like they
Speaker 1: don't happen. They do happen, And I have friends that
Speaker 1: are in that like have been assaulted or harassed, grabbed
Speaker 1: by someone in the subway, and like, yes, they do happen,
Speaker 1: but that's just not the majority of these cases. And
Speaker 1: like sometimes the poster boy, you know, lacrosse player, frat guy,
Speaker 1: is the assailant, and that person is you know, arguably
Speaker 1: more valuable to the university than one of the many students,
Speaker 1: and that person is it's something like eight percent of
Speaker 1: sexual assaults on college campus are somebody you know, right,
Speaker 1: It's it's somebody in your kind of it's it's somebody
Speaker 1: on your dorm um. So it's it's not this stranger danger.
Speaker 1: But that's what is preached about, right. And then sometimes
Speaker 1: survivors will feel that because they knew a person, or
Speaker 1: because they had hooked up before, or because you know,
Speaker 1: this guy is nice and he made a mistake, and
Speaker 1: they feel like that experience is somehow less valid. And
Speaker 1: I think the media, you know, makes them feel like
Speaker 1: that in certain ways too. In your opinion, what what
Speaker 1: your college is do? What should what should? What should
Speaker 1: be done? What should This is such a huge fucking problem.
Speaker 1: I can't one of them. I feel like my cause
Speaker 1: now and I was been lucky. I've I've not been
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted. But we get so many emails about it
Speaker 1: and it and it blew my mind how many emails
Speaker 1: we get every day about I was raped And I've
Speaker 1: never most of them never told anybody, and it's every day.
Speaker 1: I and I'm sure may you guys get it every second,
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize it was such a big problem,
Speaker 1: and what what can we do better? I think we
Speaker 1: just have to start much earlier. And written Also we're
Speaker 1: talking about college because that's when this happened to us
Speaker 1: and that's our area of expertise, but recognizing that sexual
Speaker 1: violence and happened much much earlier and families and churches
Speaker 1: and communities, um, and it's the same pattern to It's
Speaker 1: like a lot of times people think, like, oh, you
Speaker 1: have to teach your child not to take like a
Speaker 1: lollipop from a stranger who's passing by in a car. Like, No,
Speaker 1: most times your kid is getting sexually assaulted by the
Speaker 1: family friend that you've been trusting for ten years that's
Speaker 1: coming over and you're leaving them alone in the room.
Speaker 1: That's scary everyone, But I don't Uncle Larry is a
Speaker 1: little touch of feeling, and that's but that's when it's
Speaker 1: a child. They're like, oh, I'm taught to trust this person,
Speaker 1: so and then the kid doesn't know like it. And
Speaker 1: that's where we've got to start much earlier. Like if
Speaker 1: the first time we're talking about sexual violence is at
Speaker 1: college orientation, it's way way too late. And so I
Speaker 1: mean starting so like my little sister. I always say
Speaker 1: that she's kindergarten teacher. Bless her. She has more patients
Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, but I mean thinking about what she
Speaker 1: hears other you know, teachers or students or parents saying
Speaker 1: on you know, the playground, he's chasing you because he
Speaker 1: likes you. Oh it's really cute. That's he's hitting you.
Speaker 1: And that's cute, right, but that's that's internalized, right, and
Speaker 1: so and then you get into middle school and I
Speaker 1: really want a teacher or somebody who's listening as a
Speaker 1: researcher to tell me how many hours of a girl's
Speaker 1: education are lost because they're taken out of their classroom
Speaker 1: because their shorts are too short, or their straps are
Speaker 1: any drops aren't wide enough. And then what is what
Speaker 1: is that message sending? You're telling the young boys, like
Speaker 1: we don't hold you to this highest standard. You can't
Speaker 1: control yourself, and the young girls, if something happens to you,
Speaker 1: that's your fault. And so you go from the playground
Speaker 1: chasing you because he likes you. You can't control and
Speaker 1: then you fast forward and you're sitting and trying to
Speaker 1: report a sexual assault, and then that victim blaming language, Well,
Speaker 1: what did you expect? How short was your skirt? Why
Speaker 1: did you go home? Same things are happening the same time.
Speaker 1: It was violently raped in the bathroom, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, were you drunk? Like, what the funk? It
Speaker 1: does make sense now, speaking of that, we were before
Speaker 1: we press record, you were you guys were both talking
Speaker 1: about whether or not the secret the possible secretary of
Speaker 1: educate Department of Education is going to get confirmed today.
Speaker 1: We're recording this podcast earlier before you're actually everyone else
Speaker 1: is listening to it, and this, this, this is I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that this is happening while you guys are
Speaker 1: here because the importance of a president's cabinet member picks.
Speaker 1: I'm so fucking sick of being labeled a sensitive liberal
Speaker 1: snowflake for giving a ship about this stuff. But this
Speaker 1: is why this is important. Those rules that you're talking about,
Speaker 1: things that schools could be doing better. The person currently
Speaker 1: being considered for Department of Education is not a person
Speaker 1: with a good track record whatsoever. And I could not
Speaker 1: imagine these issue. These laws are better laws being implemented
Speaker 1: to help fix this problem. Thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think you know it's funny that I can't think of
Speaker 1: Betsy Devas stop thinking about Kate McKinnon's portrayal forel M.
Speaker 1: But you know, I, um, you know, I actually I'm
Speaker 1: from Miami Dade County and our public schools have essentially
Speaker 1: been run to the ground. I mean since I've been
Speaker 1: on this earth, and um, well, my parents were designed
Speaker 1: to send me to school. They ended up sending me
Speaker 1: to a Catholic school because our local elementary school was
Speaker 1: just not a viable option and we really couldn't afford it.
Speaker 1: But it was an option, and Catholic schoo is a
Speaker 1: whole other conversation. But um, we never talked about sex.
Speaker 1: We never talked about bodily autonomy. We never talked about
Speaker 1: anything that really had to deal with the world. I
Speaker 1: would say the most political we got was when I
Speaker 1: read Harry Potter and my teacher told me I was
Speaker 1: going to hell because I was reading Harry Potter. Or
Speaker 1: when I paid for that your family paid to that.
Speaker 1: Or when I voted for carry in our modec election
Speaker 1: when I was the only one who did so, when
Speaker 1: I was a baby murderer. Um, anyway, but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is the experience that I
Speaker 1: had because we didn't have a good public education. I
Speaker 1: mean not to mention the bullying aside, but just like
Speaker 1: the complete stifling of any type of healthy sex ad
Speaker 1: And you know, going back to this conversation of starting early,
Speaker 1: like we need to stop criminalizing sex, that we need
Speaker 1: to stop criminalizing the conversations around healthy sexuality, to stopped
Speaker 1: criminalizing healthy sexuality to begin with. And you know, there
Speaker 1: have been incredible books written about um sexual saw me
Speaker 1: to start with, Parks of being a Wallflower, talk about speak.
Speaker 1: These are books that have been banged banned in conservative
Speaker 1: counties around the country. Why because we talk about sexual assault?
Speaker 1: And how can we possibly even begin to scratch the
Speaker 1: surface of this conversation If we're literally criminalizing books that
Speaker 1: are trying to teach children about bodily autonomy. Why do
Speaker 1: you think people would be the head of a state
Speaker 1: accounty would ban that, Because in my I don't, I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they don't. Did They just don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about sex because of a religious thing
Speaker 1: or discomfort discomfort religion, And I mean, I think all
Speaker 1: of it, it's just it's so unfortunate. And so I
Speaker 1: grew up in North Carolina and we had abstinence only
Speaker 1: education and so we couldn't even talk about sex, like
Speaker 1: and the only thing that we got remotely um that
Speaker 1: was accurate was biology, like everybody can picture like the
Speaker 1: fallopian tub, like you know, but no one knows how
Speaker 1: us firm gets there because you're not telling me exactly.
Speaker 1: And so how do we even talk about sexual violence
Speaker 1: if we can't talk about sex. Yeah, that's why I
Speaker 1: thought if I masturbated, I would get pregn For the
Speaker 1: longest time, I'm like, well, what's gonna happen one time? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I think these books are banned because it's
Speaker 1: like these conversations aren't being had at home. But then
Speaker 1: if you introduce the topics in the classroom, then the
Speaker 1: teachers left with the responsibility of having the conversation and
Speaker 1: then only at that time while the parents jump in
Speaker 1: and be like, well that's not the way I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to my kids about sexual assault. And it's
Speaker 1: like boo, you didn't even talk to them about sexual
Speaker 1: assault to begin with. That was your job and you
Speaker 1: didn't do it. So like you have to know, you
Speaker 1: have you should know about sexual assault before you're sexually assaulted.
Speaker 1: You know, it's actually also sad too, is that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not like kids are not learning about sex, like
Speaker 1: they're watching porn and and they're consuming if I'm pretious,
Speaker 1: so like you know, you look at you hear about
Speaker 1: these case like the case at Vanderbilt, whether it was
Speaker 1: a bottle involved in the sexual assault, and then then
Speaker 1: you just like wonder where this guy. I thought that
Speaker 1: was a good idea, like I'm totally going to get
Speaker 1: stimulated by a shattering bottle and some of vagina. Oh
Speaker 1: you know what it happened in porn, and that seemed
Speaker 1: totally realistic. She liked in the video absolutely well, she
Speaker 1: didn't die or haveaginal lacerations in the right so clearly
Speaker 1: this was this was all a fair game. And I
Speaker 1: think also it's just this this idea that we can't
Speaker 1: we can't trust our kids to learn about sex. We
Speaker 1: can't trust them, Like where are they supposed to learn
Speaker 1: about this? Are they just supposed to like you know,
Speaker 1: take it in through osmosis, like you're just going to
Speaker 1: figure it out and like a sexual salt, just like
Speaker 1: a bump in the row when it comes to learning
Speaker 1: about how to have good sex, like that's just not
Speaker 1: how it works. Like you have survivors bodies who are
Speaker 1: literally being used as practiced by some of these dudes like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to figure out this whole drunken
Speaker 1: sex thing, and if I accidentally rape someone, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just a guy and I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: And that's how it's actually treated, you know, sometimes by
Speaker 1: the police, sometimes by institutions. Oh like yeah, they can
Speaker 1: do it with impunity. And if you remember, you know
Speaker 1: the Stanford rape case, brock Turner spot it was just
Speaker 1: twenty minutes of action. It was a mistake, and so
Speaker 1: like you are, you are using people's bodies to commit
Speaker 1: a felony, and yet it's still called it mistake. So
Speaker 1: to go back to the Betsy questions, So it's interesting
Speaker 1: about specifically her choice programs is that UM And of
Speaker 1: course she's just a master just never answering the question
Speaker 1: one because I don't even know if she actually knows
Speaker 1: what she wants to say, or she's you're you're the jacket.
Speaker 1: Next question, I don't know, bears. She said she was
Speaker 1: confused about students rights UM students who have disabilities confused
Speaker 1: about their rights and then also she's like, people go
Speaker 1: to school for a free sometimes, what is that? But
Speaker 1: bears though, bears? Did you hear the bears? Bears? So
Speaker 1: they were talking about do we need do we need
Speaker 1: guns and schools? And she was like, we might for
Speaker 1: the potential grizzlies. What Oh my god, I know that
Speaker 1: she wanted to go to school. I didn't know because
Speaker 1: it was because of bears. I was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: if anything would be for other kids, but I don't
Speaker 1: think we need when we're not Israel, we don't. Everyone
Speaker 1: doesn't need to walk around with a gun, although I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a special places it is. I've heard, I've heard
Speaker 1: about it, and I just learned I'm a job so
Speaker 1: I'm going to do more research on it. But okay,
Speaker 1: so you guys are two women who something fucking shitty happened,
Speaker 1: and the way you turned it into like a productive
Speaker 1: thing is mind blowing and like heroic firing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: fucking amazing. And so how can we as people as
Speaker 1: not politicians, what can we do? What? What do we do?
Speaker 1: Because in my head, I'm like, we should fight for
Speaker 1: something that ends absence only education as part of the mandate.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be it shouldn't be an option. But then
Speaker 1: it's like you don't even legally have to say accurate
Speaker 1: and factual information for public schools for sexual education. What
Speaker 1: the funk? Where does where do we even begin? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it is good. And Andrea can
Speaker 1: talk about this concept um because she named it called
Speaker 1: everyday activism, and it's you know that everyone can do something,
Speaker 1: whether you are a parent teaching your son out consent
Speaker 1: and not just your daughters, right teaching your sons, and
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a friend, telling if somebody comes
Speaker 1: to believing them. And unfortunately, we live in a world
Speaker 1: where that is a radical act of activism is to
Speaker 1: believe a survivor. And so there's something everyone can do
Speaker 1: and there's no one right way to go about it.
Speaker 1: So we do need people knocking down the doors of
Speaker 1: the Senate, you know, trying to get better legislation passed.
Speaker 1: We do need people fighting at the school board level
Speaker 1: and at the state legislative level for healthy relationship education.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, we passed in Virginia. And
Speaker 1: if we can pass almost unanimously in Virginia, we can
Speaker 1: we can do it anywhere and members of a school board.
Speaker 1: You can be a part of a school board if
Speaker 1: you are a taxpayer in that district. Right you don't
Speaker 1: have to have kids go to that school, run for office,
Speaker 1: or you can protest, but not you know, you don't
Speaker 1: you don't have There's no one right thing to do,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And also, you know, we hear a
Speaker 1: lot of times, particularly men coming back up and saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know what and rape anybody like you don't get
Speaker 1: a cookie for not committing a phlone. That's not like
Speaker 1: a good thing that you should put your dating profile
Speaker 1: brag like not a rapist. Right, So, so that is
Speaker 1: that is a very low bar and I think we
Speaker 1: all as citizens can do better. Yeah, you know it's
Speaker 1: funny or mentioning that the special snuff like thing earlier
Speaker 1: and some of my My sister is dating a white man,
Speaker 1: and bless her heart, she has you know, I love
Speaker 1: him so much, but I will say that she has
Speaker 1: really gone above and beyond and setting him down and
Speaker 1: calling him out on stuff. That's great. What's interesting is that,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a great guy, but he is from
Speaker 1: western North Carolina, and um, I mean this is a
Speaker 1: community that that just I mean, you know, they look
Speaker 1: at liberals in a very different way because it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, they're working class, they're living in the mountains,
Speaker 1: like mainly watch Fox News. So it's it's it's not
Speaker 1: like there's anyone actually setting them down. So when you
Speaker 1: have like, um, you know, a privileged white male I
Speaker 1: don't know the university, and you have you know, a
Speaker 1: girl from intercity in Miami who's Latina, who's first, who
Speaker 1: was the first person to go to college, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: they have very different experiences. I mean, so for her
Speaker 1: to sit down and have these conversations with him, it's
Speaker 1: been really hard. But I mean it's his job to
Speaker 1: take it in and actually, you know, deconstruct his privilege
Speaker 1: and like, if you're feeling uncomfortable, then you're doing this right.
Speaker 1: If you're feeling uncomfortable about cheering for your school, and
Speaker 1: believe me, I still do. I mean I cheer for them,
Speaker 1: but I feel uncomfortable. Like I mean that's just the
Speaker 1: part of of you know, being woke right, and being
Speaker 1: woke is not just something you get to like put
Speaker 1: on your profile rights. It's an everyday struggle. Like there
Speaker 1: are things you have to deconst every day, because we
Speaker 1: all have different types of privileges, and like you know,
Speaker 1: when it comes sexual sult again, even survivors we have
Speaker 1: privileges too, and and there are certainly like anything. One
Speaker 1: of the things that probably be the most with this
Speaker 1: conversation is that we have these expectations of survivors. Like
Speaker 1: I was on Reddit this morning and one of the
Speaker 1: top why one of the top sometimes well, um, one
Speaker 1: of the things I do, there's some good stuff. One
Speaker 1: of the things I do in my everyday activism is
Speaker 1: that you know, I'll you know, go through these things
Speaker 1: because I want to learn what people in Reddit are
Speaker 1: talking about. You know, when it comes to these different things,
Speaker 1: it's like capturing how it was really especially people like
Speaker 1: younger people who like don't get their news for any
Speaker 1: whe else. I think in an era of quote unquote
Speaker 1: fake news, a lot of people are trying to read
Speaker 1: it because it's usually generated. Um. But one of the
Speaker 1: top posts in this one subreddit was about a girl
Speaker 1: who had experienced sexual assault and um, you know, she
Speaker 1: just didn't know what to do and was like considering, um,
Speaker 1: you know, going to a guy no for the first time, um,
Speaker 1: and had never had sex. So this was like a
Speaker 1: first time for her, like many many different things, and
Speaker 1: just in general, like the shaming of being a woman,
Speaker 1: and like dealing with assault and dealing with going to
Speaker 1: a guy for the first time, which is not exactly
Speaker 1: a fun experience. UM. And I think it's interesting is
Speaker 1: this is this is a pretty progressive subreddit. Um it's
Speaker 1: usually there aren't any trolls in it, but I was
Speaker 1: just really sad to see how many I'm assuming women, Um,
Speaker 1: we're telling her like why don't you go to the
Speaker 1: cops like you made a mistake? Like why don't you
Speaker 1: go like you're the perfect vic jum, Like you're it's
Speaker 1: your fault if he doesn't get caught. And I think
Speaker 1: that that's a huge thing that I think progressives need
Speaker 1: to unpack, Like it's not like it's not a survivor's
Speaker 1: job to tell your perfect story that you read about
Speaker 1: or saw an SVU. Okay, Like it's not our job
Speaker 1: to be the perfect survivor and to have that happily
Speaker 1: ever after, because that's just not the reality of most
Speaker 1: of these cases. And it's honestly traumatizing to go to
Speaker 1: the cops, especially if you're a person of color or
Speaker 1: you've had any altercations before in which you have not
Speaker 1: been you have not felt safe, or you have not
Speaker 1: been believed. Like it's not survivor's jobs to live out
Speaker 1: this fairy tale, you know story. That's just not how
Speaker 1: it works. And I think that's also a big problem
Speaker 1: with the way media portrays sexual violence. And that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that I do my ready activism is
Speaker 1: you know, I watch my shows and and yes, I
Speaker 1: will take this note from Roxane Gay, like, I still
Speaker 1: like to watch my shows, but like I think, especially
Speaker 1: with sexual assault, there are just so many ways that
Speaker 1: we could be more critical of the way Hollywood portrays
Speaker 1: sexual assault. And I do think it works. I think
Speaker 1: it works when when consumers call it out. I mean think,
Speaker 1: for example, was Game of Thrones. Everyone was really piste
Speaker 1: off with what happened in a Game of Thrones. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you'll watch Game with it, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: but there was I mean, god, the show literally started
Speaker 1: off with a sexual assault. Um, but you know, there
Speaker 1: has been crotuitous sexual violence throughout the entire series, but
Speaker 1: there was one particular sexual assault that came completely out
Speaker 1: of the source materials, so um, they literally wrote it specifically,
Speaker 1: I mean literally for for plot development. When they were interviewed,
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we wanted to give this this character
Speaker 1: some type of reason for doing what he did, so
Speaker 1: literally plot development for the sake of a male character,
Speaker 1: not for the female character, for the male character. So
Speaker 1: there was complete outrage over the specific sexual assault, and
Speaker 1: even Senator Claire mccaskell from Missouri decided to like, go
Speaker 1: on a Twitter Twitter sorry, Twitter rant, not Twitter rant,
Speaker 1: And it's funny one no one knew that she watched
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, to the fact that you have a
Speaker 1: senator being like, you're full of ship, like this is
Speaker 1: not okay, and I'm never going to watch her show again.
Speaker 1: Who knows if she actually watches it anymore, but she
Speaker 1: doesn't tweet about it anymore. Um. But as a result, um,
Speaker 1: you know, HBO completely changed the story arc of the
Speaker 1: specific character. And there's actually a scene in the most
Speaker 1: recent season in which she specifically talks to the person
Speaker 1: um who put her in the situation, literally sold her
Speaker 1: into marriage where she was sexually assaulted, and the whole
Speaker 1: point of that scene is to establish the responsibility of
Speaker 1: sexual asault. She said, wasn't my fault, it's your fault
Speaker 1: and you're the reason why I ended up this way
Speaker 1: and this didn't have to happen to me to make
Speaker 1: me strong, um, which I think is really it's the
Speaker 1: complete opposite of what the what they had initially tried
Speaker 1: to do with this character. It literally called out the
Speaker 1: need of using rape as a plot device, and I
Speaker 1: think that shows that, like, you know, viewers can impact
Speaker 1: the way that these stories are written, and it's just
Speaker 1: so important for us to call it out because young kids.
Speaker 1: I don't think about young kids watching Game with Towns,
Speaker 1: but like people that watch Game Withrownes, like that's the
Speaker 1: way they look at sex, that's the way they look
Speaker 1: at sexual violence. And if if you have our popular
Speaker 1: shows essentially affirming this behavior, like how we are going
Speaker 1: to get to the point where we are able to
Speaker 1: differentiate good sex and sexual assault if that's always seen
Speaker 1: and and just the narrative too of how does a
Speaker 1: survivor respond? And we know there's no one right way
Speaker 1: to respond to sexual violence. It's a very non linear process,
Speaker 1: and most people don't report to the police. And so
Speaker 1: when you have, you know, shows that reinforce, like you know,
Speaker 1: there's a good victim or a bad victim narrative, it's
Speaker 1: incredibly harmful and just to you know, thinking about going
Speaker 1: to the police again, to even have that option, like
Speaker 1: we want to talk about archaic state laws. Some state
Speaker 1: laws if you are a man, or if you are transgender,
Speaker 1: or if you are assaulted in any other way that's
Speaker 1: not that penal vaginal, sometimes it doesn't count. And so
Speaker 1: to even get to that point, you know, we've we've
Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1: How can I go back to the game just to play?
Speaker 1: Level's an advocate, So I mean, I I totally agree
Speaker 1: in some ways, but then in other ways, it's like
Speaker 1: I feel like we're getting into a point where we
Speaker 1: don't want to see anything being like almost negative portrayed
Speaker 1: on on TV, like TV is now our parent. TV
Speaker 1: is responsible for the way that we think and the
Speaker 1: way that we view things, because I mean, especially a
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones that's a period piece, I mean, fucked
Speaker 1: up ship was happening, And sich To responded that there
Speaker 1: is a way to do a rape plot that's done well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think perfect example is Jessica Jones. I
Speaker 1: mean it's not an easy too to watch. I've seen it.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it is a good show. And my
Speaker 1: sister I have my sister watched it because she's been
Speaker 1: in Europe and she's like, what the hell did I
Speaker 1: just watch? This is like so bloody and terrible, and
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a very violent show. But I
Speaker 1: think that the way that they portray sexual assault is
Speaker 1: just so different. It's not it's not for the male gates,
Speaker 1: it's not for the purpose of male development. It's I mean,
Speaker 1: you can see that she's been through ship and I
Speaker 1: think also it shows as it shows that sexual assault
Speaker 1: isn't just a one time situation, right, It's not like
Speaker 1: you're literally raped and all of a sudden you become
Speaker 1: a hero. I mean quite literally, that's what happened in
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. She literally was raped and Lynn literally
Speaker 1: saved her town. Like she literally is the reason why
Speaker 1: they got winter Fell again, Like great, awesome. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm all for powerful Sanza at the same time, like
Speaker 1: Sanza didn't have to be raped to become a powerful character.
Speaker 1: The rape was literally for the purpose of one male
Speaker 1: character gaining the spine. And not to mention that they
Speaker 1: literally wrote this and they deviated from Martin's work. Martin
Speaker 1: didn't write this, they made it up, and then when
Speaker 1: they kept being interrogated as to why they added this
Speaker 1: specific rape, they couldn't back it up. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, like it's a periodrama. Yeah, but like
Speaker 1: you were, you already have like dozens of rapes in
Speaker 1: this show, and there's just no reason for you to
Speaker 1: rape Sanza. Not to mention, they didn't even show Sanza.
Speaker 1: They showed a male character crying as he saw her
Speaker 1: being raped. Like, let's add on to like the male gays.
Speaker 1: I mean quite literally, you just see a male's gaze
Speaker 1: as to she as she is being raped on her
Speaker 1: wedding night. So I don't think it's not to say
Speaker 1: that we can't show incredibly harmful, you know stuff, because
Speaker 1: that's life. You know, that's what happened, and people watch
Speaker 1: TV and see themselves reflected in it. But there is
Speaker 1: a way to do it responsibly and there's a way
Speaker 1: to do it authentically. And I think, you know, another
Speaker 1: good example of that is um on MTV the show
Speaker 1: Sweet Vicious, and how survivor's input was was asked, you know,
Speaker 1: like is this realistic? And you know, who is the
Speaker 1: violence for and is it just for the sake of
Speaker 1: plot development to make somebody stronger. And I think that's
Speaker 1: another really harmful, harmful narrative like oh, this awful, terrible
Speaker 1: thing happened to you, and now suddenly you're cool or
Speaker 1: you are they make you a hero or the survivor
Speaker 1: to villa narratives another one survivorative villain or survivor to hero.
Speaker 1: And I think there is still a way to talk
Speaker 1: about these issues without playing into really harmful narratives. And
Speaker 1: this is also I mean, this is a very used
Speaker 1: up plot device. I mean, I mean there are literally
Speaker 1: articles and articles and articles written about rapist plot device.
Speaker 1: I mean this and this also happens in progressives shows
Speaker 1: that happened in The L Word. Quite literally, it was
Speaker 1: a plot of The L Word and maybe watch L Word.
Speaker 1: I mean we're quite literally like one of the characters
Speaker 1: as a survivor, literally goes crazy and ruins everyone's lives. UM,
Speaker 1: I mean this happened in the House of Cards, where
Speaker 1: have Claire Underwood who's assaulted UM then goes to PTSD,
Speaker 1: and it's quite arguably also one of the more powerful
Speaker 1: villains and TV UM you have Mellie and Scandal. I
Speaker 1: think Mellie's I think actually a pretty decent portrayal because
Speaker 1: they have actually in a sense vindicated Mellie. She's more
Speaker 1: of an anti hero now she's not really a villain. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think there are ways of making it up.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's again like I think that that that um,
Speaker 1: you know, especially television that has kind of this constant narrative,
Speaker 1: has this very unique position to be able to tell
Speaker 1: a story that we're just not seeing in the real world.
Speaker 1: We're not getting to see these nuanced for our narratives
Speaker 1: because unfortunately, when media coverage is it's it's one little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, whenever we're on on shows, we usually have
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to tell whatever we want to tell, and
Speaker 1: it's usually we have to be very careful with the
Speaker 1: way we answer questions because they only wanted to tell
Speaker 1: one narrative because that's easy and that's safe. Um. But
Speaker 1: I do think that especially fictional, you don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about some perpetrators suing your ass for saying something,
Speaker 1: or god knows Daddy showing up with a lawyer. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about about that. In fiction.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can literally write the story that you
Speaker 1: wish actually happened. And what I'm sad about in Game
Speaker 1: of Thrones in particular is because for some reason, so
Speaker 1: many people love this show. I mean, there are people
Speaker 1: but I went to high school with that, Like I
Speaker 1: don't even know. They just love the show. They don't
Speaker 1: love anything else. They watch Fox News and they love
Speaker 1: the show. They're obsessed. And I think it's a cross
Speaker 1: party lines about and there are a lot of conservative audience,
Speaker 1: which is hot people. Yeah, that's why I don't really
Speaker 1: watch the show. But I think of it as like, oh,
Speaker 1: hot people take it, you know, it's just and I think, again,
Speaker 1: it's not a game an activist show at all. It's
Speaker 1: not that. And that's not why they got They got
Speaker 1: hate for it. They got hate for it because it
Speaker 1: was gratuitous and there was no purpose besides literally a
Speaker 1: male characters didn't want that. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: key to it, is the fact that we are still
Speaker 1: so obsessed with with sexual salt and and in the
Speaker 1: sense just combining it with sex. It's not sex. It's
Speaker 1: a crime. It's rape. It's not something that's meant for
Speaker 1: the male gaze. It's not meant to be sexy. It's
Speaker 1: a crime of control, not a crime of right. It's
Speaker 1: not like a crime of sexual pleasure. Sexual assault is
Speaker 1: all about power and control, which should have not sexy.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't make rape sexy and that's just not okay.
Speaker 1: And and you know there are probably plenty, especially women
Speaker 1: behind the scenes in writing rooms, being like this is
Speaker 1: just not okay and being shot down. But I think
Speaker 1: that in particular would happen with with the most recent
Speaker 1: he's in a Game of Thrones. It just shows that
Speaker 1: when you have outrage, when people are like, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's fucked up and say something about it, it can
Speaker 1: actually change when these characters and so they had to
Speaker 1: go back to to your question, like what are something
Speaker 1: that everyday citizen can do, I mean right to these shows,
Speaker 1: tweet about these shows and like those voices, I mean
Speaker 1: Senator mccaskoll's voice. You know, that made a difference, and
Speaker 1: they totally rewrote the next season because of viewer input,
Speaker 1: because I can change things. I mean, I think it's uh,
Speaker 1: I love I think what I love most about you
Speaker 1: guys is that you didn't just tweet and it's and
Speaker 1: I know not everyone wants to give up their whole
Speaker 1: lives for a cause like you have that's more above
Speaker 1: and beyond what anyone is expected to do. But so, like,
Speaker 1: I feel like we live in this age where everyone
Speaker 1: wants to appear like they're involved. So everyone has a
Speaker 1: Twitter account, everyone has a Facebook, everyone wants to use
Speaker 1: the hashtag, do the retweet, and then go on with
Speaker 1: their regular lives like they're fucking heroes. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's everything is made into this huge deal. We're Christine
Speaker 1: and I were talking before you got here. I think
Speaker 1: there's I am, you know, definitely behind causes, but I
Speaker 1: think there's a real problem with like sexual assault being
Speaker 1: treated with the same amount of energy that like man
Speaker 1: spreading on the subway is treated when they're not equal
Speaker 1: problems by any means. And so sometimes people get fed
Speaker 1: up with you know, you know, quote unquote social justice
Speaker 1: warriors because of that. And I know Christine and I
Speaker 1: are certainly categorized as those people, as I'm sure you are.
Speaker 1: So it's like you didn't just tweet, you didn't just
Speaker 1: go on Facebook. You studied, and I know it. It
Speaker 1: seems like you guys are probably smarter than the average person.
Speaker 1: So just a really big nerds, but educating yourself I
Speaker 1: think it should be a requirement of absolutely absolutely educating yourself,
Speaker 1: looking at articles, looking at whose articles you're reading, what
Speaker 1: articles you're reading. UM is your entire reading list all
Speaker 1: white men? And if it is, then you should probably
Speaker 1: change that, and you know, talking about you know what
Speaker 1: you can do. It's not a survivor's responsibility to tell
Speaker 1: their story if they want too great, if they don't
Speaker 1: want too great, and nobody should. That should not be
Speaker 1: a burden that we're placing on people. And I often
Speaker 1: feel like an activist spaces that comes across that way,
Speaker 1: like if you don't tell your story or you're not
Speaker 1: doing something, then it's not good enough. And I really
Speaker 1: think that UM is harmful UM just because people some
Speaker 1: people don't want to and that's okay, and it's just
Speaker 1: as valid. And I don't know why. In the comedy
Speaker 1: in the New York City, specifically the New York City
Speaker 1: comedy community, there's been something speaking of social media justice
Speaker 1: where UM one of one person. This is not the
Speaker 1: only time this type of incident has happened where a
Speaker 1: person was raped by a comedian that we that that
Speaker 1: that the New York comedy community knows, and they went
Speaker 1: to the police. The police didn't do shit. And uh so,
Speaker 1: after trying, like exhausting every resource that she could legally,
Speaker 1: she went on social media and she called the person
Speaker 1: out and that person was banned from the shed. He
Speaker 1: does not he lives here, but he doesn't perform No
Speaker 1: one books him. And what are your the criticisms that
Speaker 1: this person was met with or that everyone was commenting
Speaker 1: on this issue, and a lot of people were like,
Speaker 1: when are you just going to police? What? But or
Speaker 1: or you know, Facebook isn't for outing a rapist, Well,
Speaker 1: but when you have when no one else, when the
Speaker 1: people who are supposed to do something, who the people
Speaker 1: who get paid to get up in the morning because
Speaker 1: their job is to do something to seek justice, don't
Speaker 1: do anything. This ship works. I saw, I saw the
Speaker 1: guy get banned from every comedy club in the city.
Speaker 1: And do you have any critiques of that or or like,
Speaker 1: what do you think of that? Yeah? I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's actually a great metaphor for where we
Speaker 1: are right now in our political scene right I mean
Speaker 1: quite literally, the channels of justice aren't working. I mean
Speaker 1: you literally have a president that guests to decide what's
Speaker 1: real news and not real news that gets to decide
Speaker 1: what what who gets appointed? I mean who literally gets
Speaker 1: to fire someone from the Justice Department because quote unquote
Speaker 1: are standing up for justice. Um. So you have a
Speaker 1: person who has admitted to sexual assault in the White
Speaker 1: House right now, like this is this is a whole
Speaker 1: other category. She dropped the charges. Yeah, so again but again,
Speaker 1: like if you couldn't imagine the death threats, the rate
Speaker 1: threats that she's getting. Oh yeah, for which I mean recording. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think justice looks different, you know, for for everyone,
Speaker 1: And they're those channels you know, are are going to
Speaker 1: look different. And actually here's here's a fun um I say,
Speaker 1: that's so sarcastically statistics Um that actually people who report
Speaker 1: survivors who report to the police end up with worse
Speaker 1: mental health outcomes than those who do not report at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes why why is that? I I see why
Speaker 1: can you explain? Just for people? Yeah, so a lot
Speaker 1: of institutional betrayal and that institution could be you know,
Speaker 1: the police, or it could be the school, um or
Speaker 1: or any other institution. But they're blamed, they're shamed. This
Speaker 1: is a long and arduous process. Many times you're having
Speaker 1: to recount and retell you know, often the worst night
Speaker 1: of your life, many different times, and a lot of police,
Speaker 1: even if they're great people, they're not trauma informed always.
Speaker 1: And so what we know about the brain and traumas often,
Speaker 1: you know, pieces come back in bits and it's not
Speaker 1: always linear. And then police will say you're lying because
Speaker 1: you didn't tell me this the first time, and so
Speaker 1: we just need to do um. The good news about
Speaker 1: that is there because there is that gap that mental
Speaker 1: health outcomes are worse, there's a lot of room to improve,
Speaker 1: and we can train police officers to be more trauma informed. Well,
Speaker 1: I think what's what um you know? To your point?
Speaker 1: I think the brock Turner case is a perfect example
Speaker 1: of what happens when the proper channels don't work. I mean,
Speaker 1: the reason why brock Turner's life is miserable right now
Speaker 1: isn't because of a judge, because the judge them out.
Speaker 1: It's because literally the whole world hates them. It's just
Speaker 1: like it's almost like funny to me, how like people
Speaker 1: in other countries that likely don't speak very good English,
Speaker 1: like no that can like, oh that's that creepy kid
Speaker 1: from Stanford. And I mean literally his face is just
Speaker 1: all over the internet and there's just no way to
Speaker 1: ever escape that. And um and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I I wonder, like you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: like his life is ruined and he's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: poor sweet boy that could have been an olympian. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, like survivors literally have to deal with ramifications
Speaker 1: of twenty minutes of action for sometimes the rest of
Speaker 1: their life. And these are things that are invisible. It
Speaker 1: can lead to missed auditions, it can lead to um,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of missteps and taking g R E
Speaker 1: or E else at. It can lead to broken relationships,
Speaker 1: it can lead to suicide attempts. It can lead to
Speaker 1: these incredibly high costs and medical bills, and I think
Speaker 1: especially without all ammacare like sometimes bankruptcy, Like you can
Speaker 1: literally be bankrupted because of sexual assault. And these are
Speaker 1: scholarship you just literally change your major People don't see
Speaker 1: the ramification sexual asault like and that thing. That's one
Speaker 1: of the things that also bothers me with the way
Speaker 1: Hollywood portrays it is that it's not just this one
Speaker 1: thing that literally just turns you into a hero. Like
Speaker 1: it's not like all of a sudden overnight, like we
Speaker 1: became heroes. Like we know a lot of ship. We
Speaker 1: dealt with falling out, so we dealt with broken relationships,
Speaker 1: We dealt with our parents not knowing what the hell
Speaker 1: we did. Kind of still going through that phase. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's just it's it's literally something that defines a
Speaker 1: lot of who you are, even if you're not as
Speaker 1: public as we are. There are people who don't even
Speaker 1: people don't even know that that it went. They went
Speaker 1: through it, but like have to deal with these day
Speaker 1: to day or armifications and like I mean, imagine a
Speaker 1: world in which perpetrators actually had to pay for what
Speaker 1: they did. And I think that scares people because it
Speaker 1: means that they have to admit that the nice boy
Speaker 1: next door is rapist, and like that is a reality
Speaker 1: that people cannot comprehend, especially that person is a white male. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's what that is so odd to me. One
Speaker 1: one thing I am dying to ask both of you,
Speaker 1: especially your poise, is I am in awe of because
Speaker 1: I get angry, Like when you brought up right, I'm like,
Speaker 1: read it's a ship over ship, because I know I've
Speaker 1: heard such and I've seen things and read things, and
Speaker 1: I get it very angry. I use hyperbolic language. It
Speaker 1: doesn't help, my cause it doesn't help. It doesn't help
Speaker 1: many times. It just makes you feel good to be
Speaker 1: like this fucking sucks. Yeah, it does, it does. But
Speaker 1: I am an example of I'm just as bad as
Speaker 1: that crazy fucking conservative due going, you know, like Trump
Speaker 1: and movement Mark to grow just I'm literally and I'm
Speaker 1: open to I'm really trying to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1: But how when Trump got elected you were both sexually
Speaker 1: as solved. You are a minority, you are women. How
Speaker 1: how does that not make you just have how what
Speaker 1: the funk? I would lose my fucking shit, But you guys,
Speaker 1: we do on a daily basis, but you're not analyzed
Speaker 1: by your anger, and that's so amazing. I also think,
Speaker 1: and this might be shocking, but when when the election
Speaker 1: did happen, and I think I actually still am going
Speaker 1: through the stages of grief and then shock and denial
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I wasn't surprised, And I think
Speaker 1: there's a difference between being shocked and being surprised that
Speaker 1: even that aside, I I was a little I was
Speaker 1: a little surprised, but you know, looking back, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: It makes sense, just a very ugly reflection of our
Speaker 1: culture that we elected a racist, misogynist person. It's just
Speaker 1: when I speak out against Trump, like on social media,
Speaker 1: people so many people don't get it. But how it's
Speaker 1: like you stop for fucking second, put yourself in somebody
Speaker 1: else's shoes, like with all of your being. Like, I
Speaker 1: don't understand how that's so far beyond someone's comprehension, why
Speaker 1: somebody could be so upset about our country's embarrassment of
Speaker 1: a president. Well, I mean I think I think for me,
Speaker 1: I grew up in a red state. I we were
Speaker 1: oftentimes literally the only little blue dot in our entire neighborhood,
Speaker 1: little blueberry. And I mean, like I said, like I
Speaker 1: was the only one who voted for Carrie in my
Speaker 1: little mock collection. If that's like not, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like foreshadowing. I think that's literally my whole life. So
Speaker 1: when I and then I went to school in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: another red state, when we moved to l A, it
Speaker 1: was the first time that I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is what it's like to live in the blue Ocean.
Speaker 1: It's what it's like, like, this is what it's like
Speaker 1: to like be in a world in which like there
Speaker 1: are people who understanding You're not like the person who's
Speaker 1: like angry all the time, like waving her fists with
Speaker 1: like social justice wives. But um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that because I came from this world that was very different.
Speaker 1: And I think it's also important to understand that I
Speaker 1: came from a red sea of Cubans, not the rednecks
Speaker 1: that you see in the media. Like, Cubans are a
Speaker 1: strong Republican constituency, and they're very interesting because I mean
Speaker 1: they're all immigrants. I mean quite literally, these people who
Speaker 1: voted for Bush and our my collection, I mean, these
Speaker 1: are the kids of immigrants. These are people who the
Speaker 1: only reason they weren't considered quote unquote illegal is because
Speaker 1: of the web for dryfood policy or because of the
Speaker 1: Cuban missile crisis policies. I mean, you're talking about a
Speaker 1: very special law that's no longer on the book. So
Speaker 1: what is it going to look like now when all
Speaker 1: these people who voted for Trump, who oftentimes don't speak English,
Speaker 1: what happens when their community starts getting deported and I
Speaker 1: don't we don't know what it's going to look like.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, our mayor just you know, basically tossed
Speaker 1: out the idea of being a sanctuary city. He was
Speaker 1: born in Havanna, Cuba, the irony, but that that's Miami.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I it's it's for a while. I
Speaker 1: just I mean, I hated going back home. I whenever
Speaker 1: I went to college, I'm like, I'm just never going back.
Speaker 1: And I was the only one in my entire class
Speaker 1: to literally leave. Okay, that was a big deal. And
Speaker 1: I just hated going back because I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to deal with the racism and the misogyny and the machismo.
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to deal with it. But then,
Speaker 1: like as I got older, I realized that if I
Speaker 1: don't go back, if I don't realize that by staying
Speaker 1: in my little blue sea, like I'm just kind of chamber,
Speaker 1: I'm part of the problem. And I think this is
Speaker 1: a big problem that especially um millennial liberals need to realize,
Speaker 1: is that like your little blue ocean might have more people,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to win the electoral college. And
Speaker 1: I think that was a big problem that we have
Speaker 1: this election, is that we just forgot about the rest
Speaker 1: of the country, Like yes, they have fewer people, but
Speaker 1: these are people who do not have the exposure, who
Speaker 1: do not have an education. And that's why people like
Speaker 1: Betsy Divace are so dangerous, because by keeping these kids
Speaker 1: away from an education, we have we have breaking we
Speaker 1: have breaking news. Vice President Mike Pence cast an historic
Speaker 1: tie breaking vote tuesday to confirm that day. What's the
Speaker 1: tie I told it was, it's so we have a
Speaker 1: new Secretary of Education, rip public education. But again I
Speaker 1: will say that, and so, yes, it has been an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of just just activism when it comes to
Speaker 1: resisting Betsy Divace. And that's something that I just like
Speaker 1: haven't seen. Like there was this woman in Utah who
Speaker 1: like sent a pizza pizza to Hatch's office because she
Speaker 1: couldn't get ahold of vents. She's literally sent a pizza,
Speaker 1: Pineapple pizza. Please don't vote for her. And I'm seeing
Speaker 1: a lot of people like even conservatives, like my my cousin. Um,
Speaker 1: she is an elementary school teacher, and I mean she's
Speaker 1: been completely outraged and and she posted something and I've
Speaker 1: literally never seen political posts on her timeline ever. Um,
Speaker 1: She's like I never realized how quote unquote progressive I
Speaker 1: was until like this started affecting me personally. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a lot of people, like all these like
Speaker 1: regretful Trump supporters, Like a lot of people are laughing
Speaker 1: at them. And don't you wrong, how I do laugh
Speaker 1: at some of them, because some of them are really funny.
Speaker 1: But like, you know, I think this is a big
Speaker 1: problem that we have, is that we've become these elitist
Speaker 1: Like we laugh at these quote unquote rednecks and they're
Speaker 1: like they don't get it, and like, you see, you're
Speaker 1: gonna help it and it's not and I'm going to
Speaker 1: make them more mad in us more and that might
Speaker 1: be stupid, but their vote is just as much, if
Speaker 1: not more than ours. Yeah, And I think it's just
Speaker 1: it's it's sad that we've become, you know, this like
Speaker 1: bi coastal country, where like only the two coasts matter
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of people literally in the middle,
Speaker 1: like that we completely forget about, Like why is it
Speaker 1: that most of these progressive conferences are in one of
Speaker 1: the coasts, Like why is it that when there are
Speaker 1: sexual salt cases in the middle of the country, nobody cares?
Speaker 1: Like why is it that like when you have people
Speaker 1: trying to do something in these states, like nobody gives
Speaker 1: them coverage, and that's a big problem I think that
Speaker 1: we have with progressive spaces that we don't amplify the
Speaker 1: voices of people who are not being heard, whether there's
Speaker 1: there are people of color, whether they're queer, or they're
Speaker 1: coming from you know, inner city schools. We need to
Speaker 1: give these people a platform. And I think that we
Speaker 1: need to move away from you know, kind of expecting
Speaker 1: to win elections and actually start fighting tough and being
Speaker 1: an accessible um platform for folks that want to help
Speaker 1: us when these elections and I've lost, and I think
Speaker 1: for a lot of people that who were surprised, this
Speaker 1: was a wake up call, like maybe they didn't realize
Speaker 1: that we lived in a country that is still very
Speaker 1: deeply racist and sexist. And I think, you know, going
Speaker 1: back to your point, I think it's okay to be mad,
Speaker 1: and it's okay not to be okay because what's happening
Speaker 1: is not normal, and resistance, you know, looks looks very different,
Speaker 1: but this is not normal. And you know, thinking back
Speaker 1: to different elections and having you know, I've had plenty
Speaker 1: of times where the candidate who I voted for I
Speaker 1: wanted to win, did not. But this feels the whole
Speaker 1: other category of just not normal and different. And so
Speaker 1: when other countries are marching on behalf like anti Trump,
Speaker 1: like marching in protests of Trump and and honor. It's
Speaker 1: mad at Australia, but it does feel good. When we
Speaker 1: were in London, I saw like a in the chalk
Speaker 1: it's at hashtag Trump and my heart was like, thanks London.
Speaker 1: But although you're gonna be able to talk to the
Speaker 1: other side, I get so torn between the person who
Speaker 1: voted for Trump doesn't respect women like but that's not
Speaker 1: the way to go about it. And it's I go
Speaker 1: back and forth so many times because I know, I
Speaker 1: know so many people who voted for Trump and I
Speaker 1: love and respect and it's and I'm like, should I
Speaker 1: I don't know? Should I? I don't want to. I
Speaker 1: know they shouldn't be treated like ship, but it's it's
Speaker 1: just a hard I don't know. Do I do I
Speaker 1: block that out when I'm with them. My father voted
Speaker 1: for for Trump. He was a reluctant Trump voter. He
Speaker 1: wanted a Republican because he's always been a Republican. And
Speaker 1: it's so hard to respect that decision. But I have to,
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: I have to accept that. I don't think you have
Speaker 1: to respect that. Yeah, there's I mean, okay, So the
Speaker 1: worst part for me of of Trump winning, I mean,
Speaker 1: besides him winning, like whatever, it's it sucks, but I'm
Speaker 1: not you know, just fucking keep doing fighting the good
Speaker 1: fight kind of thing is the for me. The worst
Speaker 1: part was the in fighting now among like progressives, among liberals,
Speaker 1: among feminists, because it seems now it's like being feminist
Speaker 1: or being liberal isn't enough for some people. It's like
Speaker 1: you have to be a feminist or a liberal or
Speaker 1: whatever in the exact way that that the majority expects
Speaker 1: you to be, kind of in the way that people
Speaker 1: expect you to be a certain kind of rape survivor.
Speaker 1: Like this is in their world, that's the ideal way
Speaker 1: to be a rape survivor, even though they're they themselves
Speaker 1: are not rape survivors. Do you have any thoughts on that,
Speaker 1: Like every group has in fighting, Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: you know, I never really understood the whole Bernie love.
Speaker 1: I never I mean, like I respect Bernie. I wasn't
Speaker 1: like literally like coas cuckoo that and it just wasn't me.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. I feel like I'm I'm in the
Speaker 1: age range. I mean, I'll be twenty five next week.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I never really understan why people
Speaker 1: loved him so much, Like even my cousin who ended
Speaker 1: up not voting in Florida. Um, yeah, you know, he's
Speaker 1: like I love Bernie and then when he didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: when well I didn't and yeah, you know. And and
Speaker 1: my my grandfather, who does not speak English and it
Speaker 1: is obsessed Hillary Clinton, literally just with him like why
Speaker 1: are you in my house? Um? You know. And and
Speaker 1: I think that for him, my grandfather's very different because
Speaker 1: I mean he it's to go a while to become
Speaker 1: a citizen and this is a big deal for him,
Speaker 1: like cast his his vote, and um, he was insulted
Speaker 1: over the fact that my cousin, who was a citizen,
Speaker 1: didn't exercise his right. Um. But I think for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, and and this is one that I've
Speaker 1: had to essentially unpack because I was also very frushed
Speaker 1: and like what the hell people, like, how the hell
Speaker 1: did we get here with? Why didn't you vote? Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I get the Hillary is not perfect, but
Speaker 1: like we've got to move on. And I and I
Speaker 1: think that I needed to recognize a lot of people
Speaker 1: just they don't live in the district. They don't see
Speaker 1: this every day. They don't see the bureaucracy that just
Speaker 1: simply that's government. It's not going to be perfect. I mean,
Speaker 1: Bernie's ideals were just simply not going to happen. Not
Speaker 1: so much because of Bernie himself, because of the Congress
Speaker 1: that we've been working with literally he almost ten years now. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean this this has been happening literally since since
Speaker 1: was when this all started, when the Tea Party took over.
Speaker 1: I mean they've been planning since. Um. What I think
Speaker 1: Republicans have done very well the Democrats have not is
Speaker 1: that they've evolved as a party. Um, they've evolved for
Speaker 1: the worst, but they evolved as a party. And that's
Speaker 1: because they've listened to what key constituents have wanted. I mean,
Speaker 1: even if they're they're they're not the like the majority
Speaker 1: of constituents. I wouldn't say that most of the Republican
Speaker 1: constituents are Tea partiers, but they're the ones who show
Speaker 1: up because they're passionate um over these certain points, whether
Speaker 1: it's abortion or its religion or whatever, it may be,
Speaker 1: that these are very key controversial issues that cause people
Speaker 1: to literally show up to the bulls. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what Democrats have not been doing, Like they haven't
Speaker 1: really been listening to constituents, and they've actually just been
Speaker 1: they they have really just been the establishment. They've literally been.
Speaker 1: But we're not Republicans, though, And that's just that that
Speaker 1: was not that's not winning elections, Like, it's not not
Speaker 1: being your heuple again, isn't enough for me to vote
Speaker 1: for you. I'll vote for you, But most millennials would
Speaker 1: be like, what makes you any better than Bernie uh?
Speaker 1: Anti sound like yeah and and and believe me, that
Speaker 1: term literally drove me crazy anti sun j Um, But
Speaker 1: I understand what they're getting at. What I'm getting at
Speaker 1: is like when you look back at Hillary's responses and
Speaker 1: there was a parody we were looking at the Liminal
Speaker 1: Miranda episode of SNL and where you have Tim Caine
Speaker 1: and like doesn't answer the question. He just says like, well,
Speaker 1: we're not Trump though, And that was little that was
Speaker 1: like that was quite litterally the DNC. It was like
Speaker 1: we're not Trump though, And if you think back to
Speaker 1: like the Obama elections, like there was a message it
Speaker 1: was yes we can people showed up here was just
Speaker 1: we're not them. And the amount of people that I
Speaker 1: talked to that we're in my age range saying I'm
Speaker 1: either voting for Bernie or Trump. I'm like, do you
Speaker 1: really hate women or hate people that much? Like to
Speaker 1: have that conversation was really interesting, just like not not Hillary.
Speaker 1: And I think also, I mean people I mean myself included,
Speaker 1: are very suspicious of the articles that they read. I
Speaker 1: mean quite literally, I was like, is real? Is it
Speaker 1: not real? Like I don't know what's going on unfortunately,
Speaker 1: And I think that the media are partly to blame
Speaker 1: for how he got here, right, I mean so much
Speaker 1: entire speeches. I mean, like this is ridiculous. I mean
Speaker 1: the amount of coverage they gave to accinated with him,
Speaker 1: I mean billions of dollars worth of free advertising, and
Speaker 1: I mean never at any point to anything like this
Speaker 1: is probably a really bad idea, Like why the hell
Speaker 1: is Kelly Ane Conway still going on? Like why like
Speaker 1: there's just you the falling great Masters, I mean, why
Speaker 1: are you giving her because an alternative act and then
Speaker 1: you think about it, the other side did this ship
Speaker 1: and how outrage and I'm like, the hypocrisy just well,
Speaker 1: well then never die. I don't think it will. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I mean. Trump is like a child
Speaker 1: and like, you guys just stop retweeting him, If you
Speaker 1: just ignore him, that'll like that's a that's a lot
Speaker 1: of the problem because any press really is good press,
Speaker 1: and like that's a problem throughout the whole election because
Speaker 1: he's saying The crazier thing is like he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: was he better the better fit for the president? Absolutely not?
Speaker 1: But was he more entertaining than Harry? And I'm coming
Speaker 1: this on my die hard. I have lifestand life size
Speaker 1: standy of Hillary Clinton in my home since way before
Speaker 1: this election. I'm like, was I more entertained by Trump? Yes,
Speaker 1: of course, but that's I'm not trying to pick someone
Speaker 1: who's going to entertain me. It's just ridiculous. But it's
Speaker 1: like a lot of this goes back to why people
Speaker 1: win the president. Chill election for class president in high school,
Speaker 1: who's promising unlimited cupcakes? She was promising soda at lunch,
Speaker 1: she was promising like these little minute things people. Most
Speaker 1: people don't care about these big issues if they're not
Speaker 1: going to affect them, they don't they care about like
Speaker 1: how much taxes? Don't am I going to have to pay?
Speaker 1: And like can I keep doing whatever the funk I
Speaker 1: want to do? Yeah? And that's why I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we've got to really show up for mid term elections
Speaker 1: because things like this the Senate vote this morning, right um,
Speaker 1: and we had to Republican senators actually vote um an
Speaker 1: opposition to divorce. But those midterm elections are so important.
Speaker 1: With midterm when are are that? When are they? And
Speaker 1: how do you find it? Is their website that you
Speaker 1: could go to to find out, like if you're whever,
Speaker 1: you can get my ballot, like like yeah, you get
Speaker 1: info if they're a registered voter, and like I mean,
Speaker 1: for instance, I just went to the DMV to change
Speaker 1: my state of residency after thirteen years, you know, I
Speaker 1: figured I figured maybe it was some Jersey and then
Speaker 1: I just got my own place. Um. And so when
Speaker 1: you do it, at least in New York, you can
Speaker 1: sign up one fell swoop at the DMV, Like they
Speaker 1: really make it as easy as possible for you. That's
Speaker 1: new York. Yeah, that's everywhere for sure. But it's like
Speaker 1: take you know, and we always say we are spoiled
Speaker 1: live living in New York. It's the bat. It seems
Speaker 1: like the worst place to be like poor, but it's
Speaker 1: really the best place to be poor or not have
Speaker 1: the resources you need, because they're presented to you constantly
Speaker 1: in big cities like constantly, Um, what do we have? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah we can, we have some more time. I just
Speaker 1: I started. I keep going back to other things, but
Speaker 1: I have more questions about it. So going back to
Speaker 1: brock Turner, we're just using him as an example of
Speaker 1: like rapist extraordinary, That's what I'm just using. The thing
Speaker 1: is though he's not um any different than any number
Speaker 1: of cases I see come across. I ask every single day.
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting that people were so outraged that
Speaker 1: this could possibly have girls, but it happens. I think
Speaker 1: they were moved and they were absolutely fuck this, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: And then that's what Yeah, Well, my thing with like
Speaker 1: using him for the poster boy, uh for for rape.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve it. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that this guy doesn't doesn't stuck ass however,
Speaker 1: do you think do you think it's like with do
Speaker 1: you think, you know, rapists deserve any sort of rehabilitation?
Speaker 1: Do you think the proper justice this this guy, his
Speaker 1: life is ruine unless he changed his name, which if
Speaker 1: I was like as Sassy Judge, I wouldn't allow him to.
Speaker 1: But like you know, his name is tarnished for good.
Speaker 1: Anyone who is you know, our age or older is
Speaker 1: never going to accept him, never going to hire him,
Speaker 1: never going to want to marry him, get to be
Speaker 1: associated with him. So do you do you think that's surprised?
Speaker 1: Is that is that the proper punishment for the crime?
Speaker 1: You know? I think that they're there are there are
Speaker 1: different ways of looking at this, and they're different philosophies.
Speaker 1: Like there's some people who are very kind of like
Speaker 1: tough on crime and like, you know, this guy should
Speaker 1: rot in jail. Um. I do think that this is
Speaker 1: a spectrum. I think there are different types of sexual assault.
Speaker 1: And there was actually an episode of Law and Order,
Speaker 1: ironically enough, an episode that was kind of about our case,
Speaker 1: which was kind of weird watching and we didn't know
Speaker 1: it was gonna happen, but it was called Girl Dishonored
Speaker 1: and there, and it talked about this frat and um,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of different propetators, and it was
Speaker 1: one where Olivia Benson was like, oh, you know, this
Speaker 1: guy has only done it once. Why is that? And
Speaker 1: then when talking to this guy, they're like, why did
Speaker 1: you do this? And he's like, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: was pressured if I wanted to join this frat that
Speaker 1: you know, I had to get a girl drunk. And
Speaker 1: there are some people there are some cases that are
Speaker 1: like that, where it's someone who is kind of crumbling
Speaker 1: on her sidal pressure. I mean, it doesn't excuse the behavior,
Speaker 1: but like the likelihood of this person doing it, it's
Speaker 1: probably not very high. I think there are people like
Speaker 1: Brock Turner who like clearly was very calculated, probably did
Speaker 1: it more than once. And most perpetrators are repeat offenders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who do it with impunis should look at it that way,
Speaker 1: because there are some people who just simply cannot be rehabilitated.
Speaker 1: I don't think that Jury Sandusky could ever be rehabilitated.
Speaker 1: I think there are people that are like that that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the guy in the dock though that this
Speaker 1: face was blurnt out. The guy who raped the rapist.
Speaker 1: I was really I thought what he had to say
Speaker 1: was good ie. I was like, wow, he seems like
Speaker 1: he's not going to write anybody. I don't know, it
Speaker 1: seems like it really turned around. But I feel weird
Speaker 1: saying that because I don't want to give them any credit.
Speaker 1: But also, at the same time, what if he did
Speaker 1: And we need to give people credit. Just as much
Speaker 1: as it's important to believe rape survivors and just just
Speaker 1: fucking believe them, I think it's also important to have
Speaker 1: faith that we can rehabilitate people. I don't think throwing
Speaker 1: people away, no matter what they did, is ever a
Speaker 1: great response to any kind of gonna behavior. And I
Speaker 1: think this is the bigger problem that we have, like
Speaker 1: what do we do with violent criminals? And I think
Speaker 1: especially um if these happening really really young kids. Right.
Speaker 1: UM when I was in a juvenile law class when
Speaker 1: I was in college, and we had a person come
Speaker 1: in and he used to work with um sex offenders
Speaker 1: that were deveniles. And I asked a question, like you
Speaker 1: were working with kids, like you can't you know, send
Speaker 1: kids in prison for for for life. You can execute them,
Speaker 1: um for these crimes. So like what is a solution? Mean,
Speaker 1: these kids literally are going to be adults and they're
Speaker 1: going to go out into the world. Like what do
Speaker 1: you do? And he's like, you know, I keep my
Speaker 1: my nieces really close, and I'm like, I mean it's
Speaker 1: just like literally like not giving me any hope. And
Speaker 1: I think it's no. And I think, right, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: what does this tell you? This tells you that, like
Speaker 1: the population that is a perfect experiment. You have people
Speaker 1: that you literally cannot put in jail for life, and
Speaker 1: you can't even figure out what to do with kids.
Speaker 1: And there's actually a documentary called Girlhood that's on Netflix
Speaker 1: and it follows these two girls, um you have Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I actually really like the documentary because these
Speaker 1: two girls, one one that was sent to juvie for
Speaker 1: attempt to murder, one that had a completed murder, and
Speaker 1: I mean one You're going into this like holy crap,
Speaker 1: these like twelve year old kids like killed people, like
Speaker 1: what But again, you can't execute someone of their juvenile
Speaker 1: and you can't put them in prison for life. So
Speaker 1: you follow these two girls and and the one who
Speaker 1: actually ended up killing someone, you know, she recognizes that,
Speaker 1: like she was terrified she grew up. You know, she
Speaker 1: was an inner city kid um, she feared for her life,
Speaker 1: she was being bullied, and in the end, like she
Speaker 1: turns out all right, ends up going to college. And like,
Speaker 1: I mean, this girl's never going to kill someone, likely not.
Speaker 1: I mean she didn't because of these situations. And I
Speaker 1: think that way to look at it. That way, like
Speaker 1: there are people who are oftentimes a product of their surroundings,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to sexual assault, like either they're
Speaker 1: in a gang situation, or they're part of a bigger
Speaker 1: group that they've been pressured to do this, or they're
Speaker 1: victims themselves. A lot of people who are perpetrators are
Speaker 1: actually victims themselves, and they don't It's almost like they're
Speaker 1: reclaiming something it doesn't excuse to behavior, But had they
Speaker 1: gotten help for that in the first place, that they
Speaker 1: likely might not have done this. Yeah, And also with
Speaker 1: with the way rapists get punished, it also speaks to
Speaker 1: when we were talking about earlier. If a university doesn't
Speaker 1: punish a person for sexual assaulting a student, then the
Speaker 1: likelihood of, oh, if that question comes up in someone's mind,
Speaker 1: if they're weighing their options, that I would imagine they
Speaker 1: would use that as a reason to do it. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get punished, all right. And right now
Speaker 1: we have I would say, two broken systems. We have
Speaker 1: the university system UM, which exists for many different reasons,
Speaker 1: and then we have the criminal justice is and the
Speaker 1: survivors can go to both neither UM one or the other,
Speaker 1: but they're both just so fundamentally flawed right now, And
Speaker 1: you think about justice and who's more likely to get
Speaker 1: punished if you're not privileged, So if you're a person
Speaker 1: of color, man of color, if you are not wealthy,
Speaker 1: imagine if Rock Turner was not who he was, I
Speaker 1: think he would have probably gone to jail for much longer.
Speaker 1: They've cited cases of of young black men being accused
Speaker 1: the same thing and being found guilty and serving so much.
Speaker 1: And we can't talk about sexual assault and violence without
Speaker 1: talking about race and racism and how um deeply seated
Speaker 1: that as she was in the criminal justice system. It
Speaker 1: seems like more like we need to talk about athletes, though,
Speaker 1: because it seems like no matter what color you are,
Speaker 1: if you're an athlete, you're getting Jamis Wingston. I mean
Speaker 1: obviously an athlete or anybody in power. It's amazing to
Speaker 1: be singer and singer um the president of some club,
Speaker 1: of an a cappella group, of fraternity, like any position
Speaker 1: of power on campus. And it's really interesting to me
Speaker 1: to think about. You know, some of the schools that
Speaker 1: we've worked with are big name schools that you know,
Speaker 1: and you would expect like they would rally around their quarterback,
Speaker 1: but that's still the same thing that happens at this
Speaker 1: tiny little school that you've never heard of. I didn't
Speaker 1: even know they had a football team. But they still
Speaker 1: protect this athlete or this person with power on campus.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. Yeah, one of my favorite parts of
Speaker 1: the documentary was that was when they kind of talked
Speaker 1: and they only talked about it for like a minute
Speaker 1: or so, about how these athletes at colleges and the
Speaker 1: same thing kind of happens in high schools if you
Speaker 1: have a team that's doing really well. My high school
Speaker 1: football team was certainly Oh my god, Jesus, the hours
Speaker 1: I wasted batons rolling in that ship and now you
Speaker 1: could swirl at so many thanksgivings for me um anyway,
Speaker 1: but I was thinking, these guys fuck um. But because
Speaker 1: it's so young, you know, you have these guys who
Speaker 1: are so young, not even Floyd developed humans being treated
Speaker 1: as celebrities, which fox fucks you up. It sucks you up.
Speaker 1: It's it's not so. I mean, I think it's also
Speaker 1: to look at, like stop treating athletes like you're not celebrities.
Speaker 1: I've always got kiss. I'm like, how can the boys
Speaker 1: play football and they're the kings of the school and
Speaker 1: then the girls are just on the sidelines going raw raw.
Speaker 1: I know cheerleading takes more, it takes physical ability and
Speaker 1: their skill involved, but like it just feels fucking come on.
Speaker 1: Everyone's like so about the football players and the tains
Speaker 1: like you can do it, like they don't need I
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't speak about even even even like
Speaker 1: the football coaches. And I think a lot of it
Speaker 1: starts there if you pay attention to what's happening at
Speaker 1: Baylor right now in Texas. And they had an entire
Speaker 1: program like many schools do, where they have women who
Speaker 1: are hostesses essentially, which means they have sex with the
Speaker 1: players and this is encouraged and this is how you
Speaker 1: know they recruit people um to come to their programs,
Speaker 1: and it's just probably not and that's the icing, they Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the things. What do you guys? Um, so
Speaker 1: we have to wrap up soon. But what do you guys?
Speaker 1: What do you what do you want to do? What
Speaker 1: do you want for your future? Ideally individually? Uh, what
Speaker 1: do you both each want? Well? What's your ideal job?
Speaker 1: What's your ideal position? Do you want to work at
Speaker 1: a college? Do you want to work with the government?
Speaker 1: What do you want? Not to not for change? But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: where do you want to be? You as women, people, humans?
Speaker 1: What does that look like? So? I think that um,
Speaker 1: like him in the twenty five year old anywhere else
Speaker 1: in the world. I think I'm at the point in
Speaker 1: my life now where you know, I had to grow
Speaker 1: up really fast and everything I thought I was gonna be,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna be anymore. And I
Speaker 1: think that especially this election, has made me really rethink,
Speaker 1: like am I doing enough? Um? You might laugh at me,
Speaker 1: like is she being You're doing? Um? You know? But
Speaker 1: I think I think there's a lot more learning to do.
Speaker 1: And I think I want to go back to grad school.
Speaker 1: But I think I I kind of want to look at, um,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of other areas like I would love
Speaker 1: to work more than we're Hollywood to like actually look
Speaker 1: at Tell Consulting, right, these good survivor stories that can
Speaker 1: actually impact the way our youth see sexual alliance, see
Speaker 1: sex sex in general, and actually do what we're not
Speaker 1: able to do because of these school boards that are
Speaker 1: censoring this, you know, kind of healthy sex conversation but
Speaker 1: also made in general. Like I want to be a
Speaker 1: twenty something and that's something that I couldn't do when
Speaker 1: I was in college that maybe I'll get to do
Speaker 1: my mid twenties. Maybe, yeah, yeah, because you carry a
Speaker 1: lot of responsibility. Yeah, my twenty first birthday, I filed
Speaker 1: the photo complaint and I forgot it was my twenty
Speaker 1: first birthday federal to anybody else, like another case, Like
Speaker 1: we had already working on the case you assisted with
Speaker 1: a federal Yeah, And then my friend knocked on the door.
Speaker 1: She's like, dude, what the funk is twenty first birthday?
Speaker 1: Like it's the one day you can get wasted And
Speaker 1: you're like not, like yeah, on the computer. So like
Speaker 1: that's a great metaphor for like quite literally all of
Speaker 1: my birthday since so like maybe my twenty first birthday,
Speaker 1: I'll be like, you know what I'm going to decide
Speaker 1: to be a twenty something betterly than ever on the
Speaker 1: up and up. Anyway, that's when it starts to get
Speaker 1: that again. Yeah right, the people hire to consult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what about you? UM? So I get to ask this
Speaker 1: question a lot, like do you just want to you know,
Speaker 1: we have nonprofit and drape on campus? You just want
Speaker 1: to run that rape on the webs and drape on
Speaker 1: campus dot org? And yeah, so it's but I don't
Speaker 1: want to be in the nonprofit world forever, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to work just on this one issue, and
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a thread throughout my
Speaker 1: life obviously, UM. But I care a lot about other
Speaker 1: issues to UM, like education and immigration and Islamophobia and
Speaker 1: UM why we don't have more women of color in
Speaker 1: the Senate, like all all of these other issues that
Speaker 1: UM I want to work on. And so I'd like
Speaker 1: to pass on UM the organization to like younger women
Speaker 1: and hopefully like pass that torch and relight it without
Speaker 1: setting the whole building on fire. UM. But like but
Speaker 1: also like we were talking about UM at the very beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, just really learning from particularly other women and
Speaker 1: other older feminist UM. You know, we did a lot
Speaker 1: of research on Title nine in the nineteen seventy in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and folks that were doing that back then,
Speaker 1: so sort of like standing on their shoulders but also
Speaker 1: trying to contribute in some other way. And so I
Speaker 1: think eventually I'd like to run for a public office. Um,
Speaker 1: I'd like to write another fuck thank you. I will
Speaker 1: I will call you. Um, I'll move to wherever you
Speaker 1: are and we can register and we can register. I'll
Speaker 1: go to door to door and hand out registration forms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll do it. We need people like you and so yeah,
Speaker 1: so hard. Yeah in North Carolina. So I am from
Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is a red state right now, and
Speaker 1: I do feel some sort of obligation to go back
Speaker 1: and hopefully try to make it a little bit um better,
Speaker 1: but not not right now. I think I do, um
Speaker 1: want you know, a year or two just to maybe
Speaker 1: go back to school and and still do this really hard,
Speaker 1: intense work, but maybe not just focus on sexual violence. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: And then in closing, did you you mean you mean
Speaker 1: kind of like a side comment before that you didn't
Speaker 1: like the Hunting Ground The way it turned out is
Speaker 1: that how would you have changed did you Did you
Speaker 1: like it? UM? No, it's sense. It's not that I
Speaker 1: didn't like it, it's just that I think that UM.
Speaker 1: For a very long time, it was like the only
Speaker 1: thing we were associated with, and I think very much
Speaker 1: like anything that is kind of a cornerisht of any movement. UM.
Speaker 1: I think it's dangerous to think that that's the only
Speaker 1: narrative that exists. And one of the major critiques that
Speaker 1: The Hunting Ground received was that it didn't center diverse voices.
Speaker 1: And there were diverse voices in the film, it just
Speaker 1: didn't focus on how those populations are more likely affected.
Speaker 1: And I mean that's just it. Pretty much every high
Speaker 1: profile story involves a white girl, oftentimes accusing an athlete,
Speaker 1: especially an athlete of color, and that's dangerous because it
Speaker 1: portrays victims as being you know, kind of innocent, sweet
Speaker 1: white women, and perpetrators as being brutish black men. And
Speaker 1: I mean, these cases do happen. I mean, black men
Speaker 1: can be perpetrators, but they can also be victims, and
Speaker 1: they can also be wrong fully convicted. And there's a
Speaker 1: big problem that we have with wrongful convictions of black men,
Speaker 1: especially for sex crimes. UM. And I think that that
Speaker 1: was something that was a big thing that we butted
Speaker 1: heads with with our director and producer that we really
Speaker 1: wanted them to talk about. I mean, just one little
Speaker 1: snippet of race and especially sexuality and looking at how
Speaker 1: queer people are also targeted not just um, you know,
Speaker 1: for sexual salt, but also harassment ensuing from that UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that we've we've especially with when we
Speaker 1: toured with the film, we talked a lot about you know,
Speaker 1: kind of um these shortcomings of telling a narrative that
Speaker 1: is very concise. But I think it's also a metaphor
Speaker 1: for where we are now with politics, right. Um. That's
Speaker 1: a lot of criticism that the DNC also received is
Speaker 1: that even though it did pay lip service to these populations,
Speaker 1: I think that we could be doing more. I think
Speaker 1: that especially progressive spaces that have nothing to lose. I
Speaker 1: mean you have of of a documentary that had that
Speaker 1: was very well well funded, that got a slot at Sundance.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was an opportunity for us to talk
Speaker 1: about stories that are just simply never told. And I
Speaker 1: think that in the Q and A S we did it.
Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of people did that
Speaker 1: don't get the bonus features of the d d UM
Speaker 1: these are conversations that we just never have. And I
Speaker 1: think it was really great too, is that The Hunting
Speaker 1: Ground reached a lot of conservative audiences. So even though
Speaker 1: it wasn't perfect, I mean it didn't have like this
Speaker 1: perfect intersectional lens, if it can get people into the conversation,
Speaker 1: I think that that in itself is invaluable. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was an absolutely invaluable documentary. And like
Speaker 1: what andre listening to I there are definitely things I
Speaker 1: would have changed or would have done differently, but there's
Speaker 1: also only so much you can do in ninety minutes.
Speaker 1: And I should know this, right, you have to kind
Speaker 1: of like pick an angle as a filmmaker, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? Because you know, I interned from a more
Speaker 1: A lot of people are like, well, I hate Michael
Speaker 1: Moore because you know, I'm like, well, you know, he's
Speaker 1: It is a documentary, so it needs to have like
Speaker 1: reality and it but it's also still a movie, so
Speaker 1: it needs to be entertaining and have some kind of flow.
Speaker 1: It can't be like, well on this hand and then
Speaker 1: also on the other hand, like it can't just be
Speaker 1: this perfect presentation, right, But we just didn't have a
Speaker 1: one oh one before. There were lots of like smaller
Speaker 1: documentaries or more academic ones, but there wasn't, you know,
Speaker 1: a story. And so I think for that reason, you know,
Speaker 1: just to have something somebody can watch, a survivor can
Speaker 1: say wow, you know this person believes me, or somebody
Speaker 1: who's new to the issue can become educated on it. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just invaluable. And then after that, that's actually one
Speaker 1: of the reasons, um, that we did write our book
Speaker 1: We Believe You, and and that we're thirty six very
Speaker 1: different survivor narratives and most were um either folks of
Speaker 1: color or LGBT UM identified and just really I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that we have the responsibility now
Speaker 1: to do is really highlight other voices and amplify those
Speaker 1: that are more marginalist historically. Can we donate money? Is
Speaker 1: n rape on Campus except donations it's a nonprofit. You
Speaker 1: can there's a huge donate button if you are able
Speaker 1: to donate. Please end rape dot campus, end rape what
Speaker 1: is it? End rape on campus? And rape on Campus
Speaker 1: dot org? And rape on Campus? And the book is
Speaker 1: called We Believe You, We Believe You, yecause a lot
Speaker 1: of people message us in like how can I donate
Speaker 1: to guys we fund We don't need money anymore, thank
Speaker 1: god for the first time ever. So a better way
Speaker 1: to help us out is by helping the causes that
Speaker 1: we feature on the podcast. So things that like this,
Speaker 1: because I feel like people are always emailing us and
Speaker 1: trying to give us like Chipotle gift cards. We don't
Speaker 1: need those. I will take some. I will take yeah,
Speaker 1: send them, send U send money to uh end rape
Speaker 1: on campus dot org instead. We would really appreciate that. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, thank you so much for sitting down with
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us today. Yeah, a real nice
Speaker 1: example of actually doing something which is very satisfying for me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to guys. We fucked
Speaker 1: the Anti Slutchimmy podcast. We'll talk to you next Friday. Lottest,
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