Speaker 1: The Around the NFL Podcast has no takeaways. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition of the Around the NFL Podcast. My
Speaker 1: name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined by a room
Speaker 1: filled with some heroes. Chris Westling to my left, Greg
Speaker 1: Rosenthal on my right. What is up? Boys? Don't sound
Speaker 1: disappointed for some heroes, because we're gonna make up for
Speaker 1: Mark Sessler's loss and he's going to enjoy his vacation.
Speaker 1: Mark is not a vacation. By the way, I apologize
Speaker 1: if I sent a little congested. My young son has
Speaker 1: has caused me to fall ill. It's head cold. Um.
Speaker 1: But Mark is on a staycation, and you know when
Speaker 1: Mark's on a staycation, all bets are off. Who knows
Speaker 1: what he's doing? And I have By the way, I've
Speaker 1: gotten a couple of tweets about Mark while we're on
Speaker 1: the topic that, um, people are intrigued would be one
Speaker 1: word to use by his Instagram feed This from at
Speaker 1: Heath O eight two. What the hell is going on
Speaker 1: in mark Instagram? Please discuss on the next pot. You
Speaker 1: guys are great well. First of all, thanks Heath, but
Speaker 1: I would say in my and west and Greg, I
Speaker 1: don't know how close you follow Mark on Instagram. I
Speaker 1: would say that it's kind of a look into the
Speaker 1: id of Mark Sessler, a little peek behind the curtain.
Speaker 1: I haven't been following Instagram closely at all, so uh
Speaker 1: it surprises me that people are, you know, have all
Speaker 1: all these strong takes on Mark's Instagram. I would just
Speaker 1: say Mark is a man of many talents, and the
Speaker 1: Instagram account is showing off some of that photography talent
Speaker 1: that he's got cooking right, and I think the allusion
Speaker 1: to like what the hell is going on? There's sometimes
Speaker 1: there's pictures of like dolls from the eighteen hundreds, or
Speaker 1: just a dewey meadow or a street in downtown l A.
Speaker 1: It's all over the map. There's a purpose behind what
Speaker 1: he postsled I'm sure there is. It's not for them
Speaker 1: to know, and he keeps it mysterious on purpose. Of course,
Speaker 1: we do not keep it mysterious when it comes to, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, talking about what's going to happen on today's show.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lay it all out for you here, Hey
Speaker 1: like that TV behind the glass, Thank you, buddy boy. Um.
Speaker 1: We are going to get into some news and we
Speaker 1: have some fairly big stuff to get to about major
Speaker 1: change in the rules and uh, the flate gate. I
Speaker 1: would say it's something that it's starting to wind down,
Speaker 1: but it's just the next chapter really ultimately, but after
Speaker 1: we get through the news, it's something that a tease
Speaker 1: for a bit. Now when we decided downstairs this morning
Speaker 1: that this is the day to do it the Dalton
Speaker 1: Scale around the NFL special, We're gonna really dig in
Speaker 1: on the Dalton Scale and really, you know, get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of it and maybe personally speaking, get some
Speaker 1: clarity on you know, what the hell it is. I
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be too confident about that. Three years in
Speaker 1: Hansas is just still trying to figure out Queerced Wesseling's
Speaker 1: amazing dissection, beautiful in its simplicity, like the best scientific formulas.
Speaker 1: It was it decides whether you have a franchise quarterback
Speaker 1: or not. The Dalton scale is under in an existential crisis,
Speaker 1: so perfect time to get into it. So yes that
Speaker 1: that will be the rest of the show, will you know,
Speaker 1: getting you know, set us on a nice chunk of
Speaker 1: time to really dig in on the Dalton scale and
Speaker 1: where all of the starters in the NFL fit in. Uh,
Speaker 1: whether it's franchise quarterback or whether you are a stiff
Speaker 1: um TV behind the glass? How are you? Formally? Now,
Speaker 1: I will say, how are you about? What's going on? Guys?
Speaker 1: I'm doing well? Had a good as cy bow for
Speaker 1: lunch today? What a cybow? You guys? Will you guys
Speaker 1: will get down with the whole aside. Why are you
Speaker 1: telling that? Even the right way to pronounce it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is it about? Is it meat? No? No, it's
Speaker 1: like a super fruit sup of food. Why are you
Speaker 1: telling us this? Guys? That's what I did. You know
Speaker 1: this was your one chance to get in Mark's good
Speaker 1: graces by talking about a fruit based lunch, and you
Speaker 1: let it go by the board. Maybe that was on purpose.
Speaker 1: I'm just hypnotized by Mark's Instagram right now. Let's this
Speaker 1: news podcasts are great radios boring, you know, I love
Speaker 1: disease or I like him. I should say, but we've
Speaker 1: heard that before. We have heard that before. It's a
Speaker 1: good place order because to pull the car in back
Speaker 1: a little bit. Our service of down actually had a
Speaker 1: nice Don drepe of Madman, you know, not for today,
Speaker 1: but you and by the way, you know, when we
Speaker 1: were getting ready to roll today we started talking about
Speaker 1: mad Men. You said no spoilers, right, no spoilers. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't know the finale was this past I'm just saying it.
Speaker 1: When it comes to a serious finale, especially one of this,
Speaker 1: have you even been watching the show at all? I
Speaker 1: have you prestige televisions two days? It is two days?
Speaker 1: Is you get twenty four hours? Tops? I haven't kept
Speaker 1: up with this season when the spoiler is in play.
Speaker 1: I watched the first two of the season this past Sunday.
Speaker 1: Spoiler people are creeps. Money rules the world? And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: don Draper getting assassinated. It's not something you would have
Speaker 1: seen coming. But that's say at you because now that's
Speaker 1: off the table as a possibility. Okay, take that one
Speaker 1: out of your quiver and Dreper not gunned down? T
Speaker 1: D deduces. All right, here we go. Let's start with
Speaker 1: the latest in in deflate Gate. Robert Kraft, speaking at
Speaker 1: the Spring League meeting on Tuesday, called off the dogs.
Speaker 1: He told he told a group of reporters in a
Speaker 1: six minute um speech or not speech, but six minute address, that, uh,
Speaker 1: the Patriots will not appeal the discipline. Uh connected to
Speaker 1: the investigation of the use of underinflated balls in the
Speaker 1: a f C title game, So that one million dollar
Speaker 1: fine and the loss of a loss of a first
Speaker 1: round pick in two thousand sixteen, in a fourth round
Speaker 1: pick in two thousand seventeen, They're just gonna eat it.
Speaker 1: That's what it is, um and Kraft went on to
Speaker 1: explain the reason why is that, Uh, you know, there
Speaker 1: should be no no reason why one should be put
Speaker 1: ahead of the other thirty two teams, he said, And
Speaker 1: even though he disagrees with the discipline and the judgment,
Speaker 1: he feels like this has been dragged out way too
Speaker 1: long already and they need to move on. So he says,
Speaker 1: the Patriots are done now. Minutes after Craft gets off
Speaker 1: the stage, you ask, oh, what about Tom Brady? The
Speaker 1: NFL p A releases a tweet explaining that the Tom
Speaker 1: Brady appeal is on and it is not going away
Speaker 1: or as they try to wipe out or significantly reduced
Speaker 1: that four game suspension. So the Patriots take their punishment,
Speaker 1: Brady continues his fight. I think it was an easy
Speaker 1: move relatively for Robert Craft to make because he knows
Speaker 1: that Tom Brady is going to continue his fight and maybe,
Speaker 1: just maybe this helps their chances of having Tom Brady
Speaker 1: listened to by Roger Goodell and having a suspension reduced,
Speaker 1: and ultimately that's what they care about more. They didn't
Speaker 1: want to get into some gigantic legal battle with the NFL.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think it's well set up now.
Speaker 1: Not not that any of us know what direction this
Speaker 1: is gonna go, because I don't think anybody thought that
Speaker 1: this the plant was going to be this serious in
Speaker 1: the first place. That knocked everybody on their asses, but um,
Speaker 1: oh sorry, they're buttoxes. Do no need to market but glutes.
Speaker 1: Glutes knocked them on our glutes. We didn't realize what
Speaker 1: this cann happen. But now it seems set up to me.
Speaker 1: All right, Kraft does the NFL solid says, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna take this to the courts and all that um stuff,
Speaker 1: And now all you need to do, Rock is, you know,
Speaker 1: cut down my quarterback suspension, cut it in half even
Speaker 1: I'll probably take that, and that everybody kind of can
Speaker 1: move forward. That's how I see playing out West. Do
Speaker 1: you see an olpel branch coming from the Commissioner's office
Speaker 1: or back channel politics, however you want to phrase it.
Speaker 1: I mean That's why it's a little depressing to me
Speaker 1: that this is the way things are done in the world.
Speaker 1: You think that actually a guy might fight for principle
Speaker 1: and then he basically he capitulates, leaves his fan base
Speaker 1: hanging high and dry. Fan base. I'm a little bit ambivalent.
Speaker 1: I liked it. He made it a point to say
Speaker 1: that he wants the rhetoric to die down, because that
Speaker 1: was my biggest problem with this whole controversy all along,
Speaker 1: that the rhetoric, rhetoric was just so far outpacing what
Speaker 1: actually happened building. And he alluded to that too. He
Speaker 1: said four months later, I can't believe we're still talking
Speaker 1: about this and it needs to end. And he tried
Speaker 1: to make the case he's gonna do what's best for
Speaker 1: the other thirty two owners rather than just thinking about
Speaker 1: the Patriots, which is how the NFL model is really built.
Speaker 1: But let's back off calling you know, Mr Kraft, Mr
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call Mr Raft. Let's back off and let's
Speaker 1: calling him a winner today or they wow, what a
Speaker 1: great movie. He really played this great. It's like everyone
Speaker 1: looks bad here. He knows it. The Wells Context Report
Speaker 1: dot Com or whatever is still up. That thing was,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of crazy, and it just came from
Speaker 1: the Patriots just a few days ago. So well, he said,
Speaker 1: it's great to back away from the table. But Big
Speaker 1: even said if even to just because he didn't take
Speaker 1: any questions afterwards. So I think he wanted to cover
Speaker 1: himself a little bit on that because it is pretty
Speaker 1: wild that that why that WordPress rambling word press document
Speaker 1: comes out and then you know, five days later or
Speaker 1: whatever it is, he says, oh, we're not gonna appeal.
Speaker 1: Uh he So he he said that if if this
Speaker 1: would have been a week ago, I probably would not
Speaker 1: have had this opinion about how to move forward. But
Speaker 1: you know, given another week, I've decided to move on.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And that's good news forever. And just one
Speaker 1: other bit of information, The Union also formally has requested
Speaker 1: Goodell to recuse himself one of my favorite words in
Speaker 1: legal mumbo jumbo, recuse recuse himself from Tom Brady's appeal.
Speaker 1: Because Goodell has the power to heal, to hear his
Speaker 1: own an appeal of his own ruling, which seems a
Speaker 1: little weird and needs to be fixed. I would think
Speaker 1: that by the next CBA, maybe that was partly. That
Speaker 1: was a big part of the negotiation, and he gave
Speaker 1: up some of that power, but not all. And when
Speaker 1: we were last in the studio, we were debating, and
Speaker 1: no one thought that Goodell would appointed himself, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly what he did. And now he gets to meet
Speaker 1: with Brady himself, and now he he does hear it himself,
Speaker 1: and then he slashes Brady's suspension. That's the prediction of
Speaker 1: the union's fault for giving in to that request during
Speaker 1: the last c b A. That was one of the
Speaker 1: few things at the end that they couldn't agree on
Speaker 1: in the union capitulated to that one. I do want
Speaker 1: to one thing about that. And we hear it again
Speaker 1: and again that the union got killed off that last
Speaker 1: c b A. But you know, maybe if they didn't,
Speaker 1: if they didn't back down, there would have been no
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven season. It was headed in a pretty
Speaker 1: dark direction. So as a football fan, you know, but
Speaker 1: I don't understand why writers really care whether the union
Speaker 1: is killed right, people really get into that, who oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they really lost because they only got fifty nine point
Speaker 1: five of the total money instead of eight. It's like
Speaker 1: I'm always rooting for football, right, I don't care about
Speaker 1: the players or the owners. Give me the best product,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm happy with with everything that happened
Speaker 1: with Craft, and if only because we don't have to
Speaker 1: write about this stuff and hopefully it ends faster exactly,
Speaker 1: all right, Moving on to some on the field. A
Speaker 1: big change that went down. It was voted through at
Speaker 1: the same meetings Spring league meetings on Tuesday. The NFL
Speaker 1: has moved too, moved extra points to the fifteen yard line.
Speaker 1: Uh for the two thousand fifteen season. Uh. That will
Speaker 1: make it officially a what is that thirty three thirty
Speaker 1: three yard extra point attempt? Which is obviously a lot
Speaker 1: tougher than the seventeen yard attempt. Well, maybe not a
Speaker 1: lot tougher, but it is significantly harder, harder kick than
Speaker 1: the seventeen yard er. Uh. The two point conversion which
Speaker 1: the Eagles had proposed moving that from the two to
Speaker 1: the one that did not happen. However, you now can
Speaker 1: return a two point conversion of fumble recovery or an
Speaker 1: interception the other way and get two points for the defense.
Speaker 1: That's a new rule. So those are the changes. The
Speaker 1: extra point got a little bit tougher and the two
Speaker 1: point conversion, there's a little more risk on the offensive
Speaker 1: side of the ball. West has pumped up about this him.
Speaker 1: This excited a break. West, You're gonna be the two
Speaker 1: point conversion rule change beat writer for the rest of
Speaker 1: the season. Tracking all the changes is the first scoring
Speaker 1: change in in the NFL. It's gonna be less extra points.
Speaker 1: The extra point was the most pointless or the most
Speaker 1: useless play in sports, so this is gonna be the
Speaker 1: second most useless. Now, I mean, the best free throw
Speaker 1: shooter in NBA history Larry Bird, No, but close. But
Speaker 1: even if he is, he didn't make. Which is about
Speaker 1: you're going to make? How do you know it could
Speaker 1: be Steve Kerr? I don't know, maybe Steph Curry. Let's
Speaker 1: stop down the podcast and find out who best. Keep
Speaker 1: going West keeping. I think the point is, when you're
Speaker 1: watching a riveting basketball game, stop in the action to
Speaker 1: watch a guy's shoot free throws is not fun, and
Speaker 1: the NFL extra point is still basically a free throw. Steven,
Speaker 1: how is this a fun off season story? It's It's
Speaker 1: not the biggest deal in the world. It is Steve Nash,
Speaker 1: by the way, I wouldn't have known that's percentage nine
Speaker 1: point four. Okay, so the kickers are going to do
Speaker 1: better than that. It's funny. Nine point four is the
Speaker 1: number because Dean Blandino explained they moved it to the
Speaker 1: fifteen yard line specifically because that was the cut off
Speaker 1: between ninety and they wanted it to be about that.
Speaker 1: The owners felt to it it was too low if
Speaker 1: it got below so half measure. I agree with that.
Speaker 1: If measure, I wish they just moved it back. But
Speaker 1: anything that involves more two point conversion or adds a
Speaker 1: little more suspense, why not? Is why I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't like it is because it is a half measure,
Speaker 1: because well, all you're really doing ultimate because you didn't
Speaker 1: make the two point conversion anymore enticing. In fact, to me,
Speaker 1: you made it more dangerous by having the defense be
Speaker 1: able to score points off it. And what all we're
Speaker 1: doing here? That's fun. That'll happen like three times a
Speaker 1: year and that'll be Can we worry about that in October? Then? Um,
Speaker 1: all we're really setting this up for is the freaking
Speaker 1: kickers to be deciding games on extra points. That was
Speaker 1: That's been my issue this whole time, is like, oh,
Speaker 1: how do we fix the extra point. Don't fix it
Speaker 1: by make the game more important and leaning on the kickers.
Speaker 1: The kickers have enough on their plate. We don't want
Speaker 1: them to side of it. I mean, they should get rid.
Speaker 1: They should have moved the two point conversion to the
Speaker 1: one and really made the extra point almost an afterthought
Speaker 1: in my mind. Really go for it and only leave
Speaker 1: it to the Joe Filman's of the world to be
Speaker 1: kicking thirty five yard field goals extra points, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Instead, what we're gonna have a situation
Speaker 1: is guy's missing extra points and teams losing. The human
Speaker 1: history is is filled with half measures that lead to progress.
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta moves. You gotta move it back
Speaker 1: a little bit before you get rid of it. More
Speaker 1: filled with the law of unintended unintended consequences. Okay, what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen here? You don't know. That's one of the
Speaker 1: thing about the law of unintended conta You don't see
Speaker 1: it ahead of time. This from Pro Football Focus thirty
Speaker 1: to thirty five yard field goal accuracy in fourteen by
Speaker 1: location left hash ninety one point six, center ninety seven
Speaker 1: point six right hash. This is always center. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be the center hash for an extra point of tempts.
Speaker 1: So it's a big no change. It's not gonna be
Speaker 1: a big difference. Teams are gonna go for two like
Speaker 1: four times a year instead it twice, Right, I saw
Speaker 1: something on average most teams around that's that amazed me.
Speaker 1: Only about two even less than three two point conversion
Speaker 1: tries every point that this is a non story. Hey,
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting plays that led to the
Speaker 1: Seahawks winning the Super Bowl two point conversion I mean
Speaker 1: making the Super Bowl. I mean that Russell Wilson plays
Speaker 1: one of the most underrated plays in NFL history. That's
Speaker 1: the exception rather than the rule. Moving on, there is
Speaker 1: another UH stalwart defensive player on the forty Niners. Moving on,
Speaker 1: defensive tackle Justin Smith has decided to retire. UH. This
Speaker 1: after Smith went through a long period of uh you know,
Speaker 1: questioning whether he wanted to come back. He met with
Speaker 1: the Niners last week and the decision was made that
Speaker 1: after fourteen seasons, seven of which spent with the forty Niners,
Speaker 1: after seven in Cincinnati, five time Pro bowler decides to
Speaker 1: shut it down. And this was his quote. When you
Speaker 1: get on the bald tires. You're on the bald tires.
Speaker 1: It was just time for me to move on. Greg
Speaker 1: Justin Smith, in your opinion and your estimation, one of
Speaker 1: the unheralded great NFL players since the turn of the century. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: his career spans that entire time, because he came into
Speaker 1: the league right after two thousand came in. What's going
Speaker 1: to happen? You know everyone was didn't you have a
Speaker 1: white two K story? Or that was Mark Sel? What
Speaker 1: was it? When I was working at the law firm,
Speaker 1: I was in charge of UH making sure that all
Speaker 1: of the programs were complicit with kids. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of data. I'm so happy you're here. That was Justin.
Speaker 1: Justin Smith was a very good starter in Cincinnati that
Speaker 1: didn't get a lot of love because he played for
Speaker 1: a lousy team. And you know, his specialties don't make
Speaker 1: Sports Center. He's not getting sacks. He was more of
Speaker 1: a run stuffer. I think of him as one of
Speaker 1: the pure strongest players of the last routine years. I mean,
Speaker 1: he could pick up guys and move them and when
Speaker 1: he went to San Francisco. To me, he's almost He's
Speaker 1: just as memorable as Patrick Willis as the leader of
Speaker 1: that defense with Harbaugh because he's kind of like he
Speaker 1: was their leader when uh, when I broke up with
Speaker 1: my first girlfriend, my dad had some really good, uh
Speaker 1: advice for me. Timing is everything in life. If I
Speaker 1: had met her when I was thirty, it would have
Speaker 1: been much better than meeting or at seventeen or eighteen
Speaker 1: or whatever. So Justin Smith, timing is everything. He came
Speaker 1: in with the Bengals under Dick Lebou when they were
Speaker 1: they were still kind of down the rabbit hole as
Speaker 1: a franchise, and just like Greg said, Justin Smith wasn't
Speaker 1: get any attention. That coaching staff was also not developing
Speaker 1: players as well as they should have. And I think
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that Justin Smith doesn't get a single
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl nod in his what eight years with the
Speaker 1: Bengals and seven years with the Bengals, and then immediately
Speaker 1: gets five in his first six years with the forty niners.
Speaker 1: He could he could be a twelve or thirteen Pro
Speaker 1: Bowl guy, which would be a guy you'd talk about
Speaker 1: for the Hall of Fame. I think he'll be mentioned,
Speaker 1: but I don't think he'll get into that final fifteen
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like or if he came along with the
Speaker 1: Bengals in two thousand ten, right, probably what I had
Speaker 1: a better career, great couple of plays. I remember in
Speaker 1: the two thousand eleven season before we move on, where
Speaker 1: he basically had game saving or game winning plays, and
Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk that he might be
Speaker 1: the defensive player of the Year that year. Uh, he
Speaker 1: was really the favorite throughout most of it. It ended
Speaker 1: up being through all Suggs kind of beating him at
Speaker 1: the end. I think he finished third in the voting
Speaker 1: in the end. But but a great player. Salutations in
Speaker 1: this forty Niners defense has a lot of note names
Speaker 1: in it we don't know. Yeah, congrats Justin Smith on
Speaker 1: a great career. Hey Wes the y two K compliance,
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been more dismissed when you were when
Speaker 1: you were you do all the work. I assume a
Speaker 1: lot of it was done in December runt work or
Speaker 1: whether it was this, I think it was like a
Speaker 1: year long thing. Jesus. So it wasn't something I was
Speaker 1: doing eight hours a day. It was something I had
Speaker 1: to do in addition to other work. It was just
Speaker 1: like when you have free time make sure you x
Speaker 1: out all these extra zeros or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 1: So where were you on the p pens scale at
Speaker 1: like eleven fifty eight zero one zero? If if anything
Speaker 1: would have gone wrong, it wouldn't have been my fault.
Speaker 1: I was just doing what I was told. I thought
Speaker 1: you were leading the charge. Now I was told that
Speaker 1: this stuff should be exed out or whatever for what.
Speaker 1: Nobody ever knew why Y two K was important. You
Speaker 1: were just told that it could well basically disaster construct
Speaker 1: like the millennials listening right now that we're six or whatever,
Speaker 1: when basically what you were told is that all the
Speaker 1: traffic lights would stop working and everyone would die in
Speaker 1: a car accident at the same time. Yeah, this was
Speaker 1: a law firm where I was in charge of records management,
Speaker 1: and they were a little worried about retention policies on
Speaker 1: old files, which in legal terms, you can get a
Speaker 1: lot of trouble if you lose track of your old files,
Speaker 1: estate planning, you know, all this stuff, because people need
Speaker 1: their files to have a whole separate podcast on that.
Speaker 1: It would have been great if all of your how
Speaker 1: many brothers six if you all went it became lawyers
Speaker 1: and then opened a firm and be Wesley and Westling
Speaker 1: and Wesley and Westley and Wesley and Wesley and Westling.
Speaker 1: All right, even we could represent the one. Alright. Moving
Speaker 1: on to Ryan Tannehill, who is a very He was
Speaker 1: already a rich band. Let's face it, it's a nice
Speaker 1: life this Ryan Tannehill has. But now he's even Richard.
Speaker 1: He signs a mega deal with the Dolphins, an extension
Speaker 1: through the season, the team announced on Monday. Six year
Speaker 1: old uh signs a four year deal include seventy seven
Speaker 1: million and new money UM and twenty five million is
Speaker 1: fully guaranteed with I guess million in let's put it
Speaker 1: in air quotes guarantees over the life of the deal,
Speaker 1: but there are some outs for the Dolphins, but fully
Speaker 1: guaranteed four more years to his deal. So Ryan Tannehill
Speaker 1: now getting paid like a star franchise quarterback or in
Speaker 1: that range. Greg. He's getting paid like a mid level,
Speaker 1: mid to upper tier starter, which is I think what
Speaker 1: he is. I don't think he's getting more than that.
Speaker 1: If you look at the deal, he's only getting only
Speaker 1: getting thirty nine million over the next three years. So
Speaker 1: that's thirteen million dollars a year and at that point
Speaker 1: they can get rid of him, so they're paying him
Speaker 1: like he's Andy Dalton. Basically, yeah, right around Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: similar to Colin Kaepernick. He got a little more money
Speaker 1: on the back end if if they want to keep him,
Speaker 1: he'll he'll be at a higher salary nineteen million. But
Speaker 1: if you think about it, if he's a top ten
Speaker 1: quarterback in twenty seventeen, that's nineteen million dollars not going
Speaker 1: to be a bad price at all. I like how
Speaker 1: the agent sold this in all the Miami papers today,
Speaker 1: that he's top six or seven and pay ye give
Speaker 1: me a break. And then I love this line. He's
Speaker 1: talking about how great the contract is for taking Hill
Speaker 1: and then he says, I fully believe that we may
Speaker 1: end up regretting this deal one day. I think guy
Speaker 1: has all the ingredients to be an elite player. No,
Speaker 1: your job, mr, Agent, is to get the deal that
Speaker 1: takes advantage of those prime years. Or he's supposed to
Speaker 1: be that good. You did a bad job. What's the
Speaker 1: agent saying? I think that dies? Do you think? Ryan Tannehill?
Speaker 1: I know this is you know, talk about speculative. If
Speaker 1: you had to wage your you know your life on it.
Speaker 1: Would you pick Ryan Tannehill as a member of the
Speaker 1: Miami Dolphins in twenty No, I'm not comfortable waging my life. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't have a choice these things. I keep going
Speaker 1: and I don't think it was a terrible decision lock
Speaker 1: him up, but I maybe would. Ultimately, I might have
Speaker 1: went the Ravens route with Joe Flacker. I know it
Speaker 1: blew up in their face, but you know, boo who
Speaker 1: you want a super Bowl title? Should have kind of
Speaker 1: waited it out and given him another year. See where
Speaker 1: this career is truly progressive. But they decided to just
Speaker 1: go and call in and pay, and at least they
Speaker 1: didn't break the bank. I guess that is the positive.
Speaker 1: When happened last time, Mr t did this well, one
Speaker 1: of the worst, most indefensible signings in NFL. There's more
Speaker 1: to that. Not not defensible in anyway, but there. It
Speaker 1: wasn't quite the same The Peyton Manning sweepstakes somehow bled
Speaker 1: into the Sanchez associations. It was an apology. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: never understood how Mark Sanchez deserves an apology. It was
Speaker 1: it was the beginning of the end uh in so
Speaker 1: many ways for a lot of the guys with the jets.
Speaker 1: But uh, I did you brought up Tannenbaum not on
Speaker 1: the on the dais uh for the press conference that
Speaker 1: we got to enjoy And I'll say enjoy, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: take that with a grain of salt. With h Dennis Hickey, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the hickster we like to call him. Of course, Tannehill
Speaker 1: dead center complete literally like maybe raises his voice about
Speaker 1: at the same level Ivan Drago. There's not much going
Speaker 1: on there. And then to his right, Joey Fildman, the
Speaker 1: coach gets a seat. Remember the Sioux UH signing introductory signing.
Speaker 1: He wasn't even on the days they were sitting with
Speaker 1: the journals a couple of pressures in a row where
Speaker 1: he wasn't even on the days. So this time there
Speaker 1: was no Mr t After seeing him today, I can
Speaker 1: see why they leave him out in the cred It was.
Speaker 1: It was the It was the most charisma free press
Speaker 1: conference I ever seen. I tweeted, I did a power
Speaker 1: rankings of the charisma from the press comments. I got
Speaker 1: Tannehill at one, but that was really by default, just
Speaker 1: because he's a young, handsome man with a lot of
Speaker 1: money and a and a and a gorgeous white feel
Speaker 1: the Staples short or whatever. Number two tape recorder number
Speaker 1: two is my number two because it was white, so
Speaker 1: it had a little h you know, heat to it
Speaker 1: is a little different than the other ones. Three. Hickey
Speaker 1: Hickster gets third, the Dolphins logo back backdrop that was
Speaker 1: behind them. Fourth. Then they had three mikes for each
Speaker 1: of the guys. That's a three way tie. Five, six, seven,
Speaker 1: and then Joey Fibbs. Well, it's a sad scene because
Speaker 1: Tannehill makes Eli Manning looks like Chris Rock. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was not an exciting guy, that wasn't it. The
Speaker 1: two thousand four Titans have more charisma than that entire list.
Speaker 1: It is amazing. There's no way Joe Philman is there
Speaker 1: next year. That was the other thing I couldn't get
Speaker 1: out of him. Two things I couldn't get out of
Speaker 1: mind about this contract. Number one, Joe Philman almost benched Tannehill.
Speaker 1: Philipman Philbin Oh, yeah, Philippin, I thought you were saying,
Speaker 1: Philip Joey Phipps. Joey Phipps almost bench Tannehill. And then
Speaker 1: Tannehill called the press conference and announced he was the starter.
Speaker 1: Took it out of hips and give him seventy seven
Speaker 1: million of a four years and then you know to
Speaker 1: me that that really jumps out to me, is you
Speaker 1: know what's going on with this organization. It is interesting that,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned so recently, he was on the edge
Speaker 1: of whether he's going to keep that job. He's really
Speaker 1: tied to Bill Laser because his production went up so
Speaker 1: dramatically with this new system, and you weren't sure if
Speaker 1: it was all Tannehill or was it the system, And
Speaker 1: so they need to be wary of the fact if
Speaker 1: you fired Joe Philbin, you're probably firing Bill Laser and
Speaker 1: then Tannehill starting over. That's a problem. I thought about
Speaker 1: this because I've been talking about Tannehill. A large percentage
Speaker 1: of his progress was due to this gimmick offense. The
Speaker 1: Dolphins ran no huddle I believe eight two percent of
Speaker 1: their plays last year, but the league average is over
Speaker 1: six now. So no matter where Tannehill go is, he's
Speaker 1: going to be in an offensive suits him better than
Speaker 1: it would have five or six years ago. Now, one
Speaker 1: last thing is, you know, I'm surprised he gets the
Speaker 1: contract before Andrew Luck, before Russell Wilson. But when I
Speaker 1: watched him during his rookie year. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: things I got to do on the site was watched
Speaker 1: each one of the rookies every snap. I mean, he
Speaker 1: has every raw skill that you could want, and he
Speaker 1: has improved every year. He does not have a good
Speaker 1: deep ball at all. But if we're gonna give Chip
Speaker 1: Kelly so much love for kind of creating an offense,
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe Laser and Tannehill together they could be
Speaker 1: a good thing. Imagine Ryan Tannehill and Chip Kelly's offense.
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't need right now. He's wildly athletic, he's
Speaker 1: pretty smart, he's pretty accurate. I mean, you've got a
Speaker 1: lot of good things going. The other way to look
Speaker 1: at that is he didn't even have as good of
Speaker 1: a year as Nick Foles did two years ago, and
Speaker 1: Nick Foles has already washed out of Philadelphia. How much
Speaker 1: credit do you give to Tannehill versus the offense is
Speaker 1: so quartered, more more talent, and more upside because he
Speaker 1: hasn't played quarterback talent, but he can't go down the
Speaker 1: field whatsoever. I found it telling, even in the highlights
Speaker 1: when they're doing the press conference, everything seemed thinking dunk
Speaker 1: with tannihel it is and it's a totally new team too,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of pressure on him because his
Speaker 1: three of his top four options are new players now,
Speaker 1: so you gotta mix them now. You know, we talked
Speaker 1: about Ryan Tannill. That's what's happening with the news, by
Speaker 1: the way, we talked about Ryan Tannehill and uh and
Speaker 1: you know, he's an interesting case because heat heat to
Speaker 1: me and I think, um, I think we might all
Speaker 1: be an agreement. He is definitely in that discussion about
Speaker 1: the Dalton scale. And let's talk a little bit at
Speaker 1: first about the the origins of the Dalton scale. Uh.
Speaker 1: Chris Westlingh initially brought this up in the podcast a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago that he believed that, uh Andy
Speaker 1: Dalton was I guess what you would call the prime
Speaker 1: meridian of NFL qbs. And if you were ahead of
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton, well, how about this, West Do you have
Speaker 1: maybe a glossary explanation, because you know, famously I don't
Speaker 1: quite grasp this at all. So I'm hoping by the
Speaker 1: end of today's podcast it will be in my brain
Speaker 1: a complete understanding of the Dalton scale. I don't I
Speaker 1: wouldn't hold your breath. Is that a shot at my intelligence? No?
Speaker 1: I used to be, but not anymore. Okay, that's fine,
Speaker 1: that's fine. How about a glassary explanation or glassary term?
Speaker 1: What is the Dalton scale? Andy Dalton stands as the
Speaker 1: prime ridian of NFL quarterbacks. Sorry I stepped on your
Speaker 1: primary new look. Any quarterback ranked above Dalton is a
Speaker 1: viable franchise player. Any quarterback below Dalton is a problem,
Speaker 1: not a solution. Dalton himself is quarterback purgatory personified very good. Basically,
Speaker 1: to me, it always came down to the question, do
Speaker 1: you have a do you need to get a new quarterback?
Speaker 1: The answer is yes, then he's below the Dalton scale.
Speaker 1: If if it's a. But if the answer is no,
Speaker 1: then then you're okay. And if it's Andy Dalton, you
Speaker 1: just you do. You're crazy, keep on going to the
Speaker 1: playoffs and losing on Saturday. All right, So, before before
Speaker 1: we get into we're gonna figure at some of these
Speaker 1: quarterbacks that exist, we're gonna put our focus on the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks that exist in that Dalton scale zone right where
Speaker 1: around where Dalton is and what what side of the
Speaker 1: line they've fallen. So before we get going we're gonna
Speaker 1: throw out ten names, uh that aren't even in the discussion,
Speaker 1: because we're all in agreement, are obvious franchise solutions at
Speaker 1: this stage and are not in this discussion. So in
Speaker 1: alphabetical order. I don't want anyone to think of This
Speaker 1: is not a countdown or power rankings of the best quarterbacks. Okay,
Speaker 1: although I like Europe getting involved, and I mean our
Speaker 1: podcast listeners in Europe, and also the eighties rock band,
Speaker 1: but Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers,
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, and Russell Wilson.
Speaker 1: Those ten quarterbacks we have all agreed are above the
Speaker 1: the Dalton scale, and I know that the goose bumps
Speaker 1: all across the nation. With these quarterbacks, we will not
Speaker 1: be any much closer my list to Andy Dalton, and
Speaker 1: he is I guess on either of yours. Okay, fair enough, Um,
Speaker 1: we can get into that now. On the other side
Speaker 1: of the discussion, some quarterbacks and this one, you guys,
Speaker 1: stop me if I'm out of bounds. Let's okay, let's
Speaker 1: define our parameters here. First, we're talking about going forward
Speaker 1: with your franchise, not just for the two thousand and
Speaker 1: fifteen season, but going forward. Who do you want as
Speaker 1: your quarterback? Okay, stop me. If any of these guys
Speaker 1: you're like, well, I might want him part of my franchise.
Speaker 1: Matt Castle, e j Manuel, Gino Smith hard pause for
Speaker 1: Greg to defend him. Now, I think Gina Smith has
Speaker 1: the potential to someday be above uh the Dalton on
Speaker 1: the Dalton scale, but he's definitely not right. Would have
Speaker 1: to Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown, Johnny Manziel, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer,
Speaker 1: Ryan Linley, Uh, all those other guys, Blake Bortles I
Speaker 1: put there unless somebody wants to put Linley low the
Speaker 1: blame Gabbard scale. Uh, Blake Bortles, bords I have way
Speaker 1: above Dalton. Really WHOA All right, well, let me let
Speaker 1: me take him off this little the sad list. But again,
Speaker 1: this is where the existential crisis comes in for the
Speaker 1: Dalton scale. I feel like there has to be an
Speaker 1: offseason scale, in an in season scale. When this started,
Speaker 1: any Dalton was a competitive advantage making two million dollars
Speaker 1: a year. Now he's a competitive disadvantage making million year
Speaker 1: don't worry about the contract. It's but team you have
Speaker 1: to worry about the contract. But either way, he's your
Speaker 1: He's a quarterback that's not getting in the way enough
Speaker 1: of a ten, ten and sixth season. He's basically kind
Speaker 1: of keeping them afloat moving forward. At this point, are
Speaker 1: you confident Blake Bordos will ever be a better than
Speaker 1: average starter? I like Bordles a lot, but I don't
Speaker 1: even know for sure. That's why I'm changing this. There's
Speaker 1: an existential crisis because Blake Bortles isn't a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1: But at this point, I know what Andy Dalton is
Speaker 1: and I don't want that. I don't want ten and
Speaker 1: six in the first round playoff exit. I'll take my
Speaker 1: chances with whether I saw from Blake Blake Bortles in
Speaker 1: the preseason last year, when he showed difference making potential.
Speaker 1: To me, it's more about right now, though, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's whether right now they're above or But I thought
Speaker 1: we said it was who's going to be your quarterback
Speaker 1: for your franchise going forward? Okay, Just that's why it's
Speaker 1: a different discussion in May than it is in October.
Speaker 1: Just throw some phillups of this fire. On the earlier
Speaker 1: DDF T show Today, Damage Like said that a lot
Speaker 1: of g ms would take Andy Dalton over James Winson
Speaker 1: because Andy Dalton safer. I told him, no chance. Did
Speaker 1: you see the package that the bucks in the title?
Speaker 1: I agree with um okay, yeah, and maybe that famously.
Speaker 1: I struggle famously, Greg. I struggle with the Dalton because
Speaker 1: I've always wondered as as he seems to fade in
Speaker 1: the collect or, at least in this room's view of
Speaker 1: what kind of quarterback he is? What kind of upside
Speaker 1: wouldn't that make more guys in front of him? And
Speaker 1: then all those guys are answers? Is he's still the
Speaker 1: primary idiot? If he starts to regret, I don't think
Speaker 1: I I disagree, because just because he's entrenched in his
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton nous, that's what he was all along. He's
Speaker 1: always been. He's there's a lot better quarterbacks now than
Speaker 1: the World Cup. He's always been that middle of the
Speaker 1: pack guy. I've done the Quarterback Index or whatever where
Speaker 1: I ranked the quarterbacks at the end of the year.
Speaker 1: In two thousand thirteen, he was eighteen. Last year he
Speaker 1: was nineteenth. For what it's worth, which to me feels
Speaker 1: about right. And and so the guys that have proven
Speaker 1: and I'll throw one name out here which we could
Speaker 1: talk about, Teddy Bridgewater. To me, he's already above the
Speaker 1: Dalton scale, but he would be the only one of
Speaker 1: last year's rookies that I would put above there now
Speaker 1: that I would be surprised at this point if he
Speaker 1: does not evolve into a better than average starting quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think you and I are looking at this exercise differently.
Speaker 1: We need to come to an agreement, and we better
Speaker 1: do it because because I threw it out there, we're
Speaker 1: talking about who do you want for your franchise going forward.
Speaker 1: It's seems like you're talking about only for the two
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen I'm talking about basically what they what they've done.
Speaker 1: But I hear you, I would rather have Boarders than Dalton.
Speaker 1: You'd rather take the risk that portals become something rather
Speaker 1: than knowing what you have with Andy Dalton. That's fair.
Speaker 1: Can I explain to people what Andy Dalton is? Right,
Speaker 1: Let's talk about where Andy Alton is in fourteen prime
Speaker 1: time and playoff games. Andy Dalton is the same amount
Speaker 1: of starts as EJ. Manuel has in his career. Andy
Speaker 1: Dalt would have to have three lights out games to
Speaker 1: reach EJ. Manuel's one loss record, completion percentage, touchdown to
Speaker 1: interception ratio, and passer rating in those games. That's how
Speaker 1: bad Andy Dalton has been in games that matter. He's
Speaker 1: a flat track bully, is what cricket players would call
Speaker 1: a guy who feasts on inferior competition. His record thirty
Speaker 1: sixteen and one and all other games besides games basically
Speaker 1: when the when the lights are on him. So to me,
Speaker 1: that's not what I want in a quarterback. Okay, So
Speaker 1: he's guy that puts up solid numbers, he gets his
Speaker 1: or he's on playoff teams. He's already always fall flat
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. Not always his fault this past January.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna hang that uh first round playoff whoss
Speaker 1: on Dalton, but certainly he wasn't good enough to raise
Speaker 1: the team above the issues they were dealing with. Let's
Speaker 1: let's stick with Bortles for one more second, because I
Speaker 1: disagree where Greg You're coming from on that. To me,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about the Dalton scale, you gotta earn
Speaker 1: your way on the other side of that Dalton scale.
Speaker 1: And I didn't think Bortles did anything uh last year
Speaker 1: to show me that he's a guy. And we're again
Speaker 1: we're going off West's glossary of terms here that uh,
Speaker 1: he is on the other side of the primarndy And
Speaker 1: what was the exact wording West? You had any quarterback
Speaker 1: ranked above Dalton is a viable franchise player, and we
Speaker 1: don't know below Dalton is a problem. We don't know
Speaker 1: is a viable franchise I don't like the definition anymore
Speaker 1: because I'm definitely taking here and would be surprised if
Speaker 1: anybody's not taking Bortles over Dalton. Portals to me show
Speaker 1: it enough, just in terms of his traits and if
Speaker 1: you looked at the situation around him, if you put
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton on that Jaguars team, maybe he would have
Speaker 1: been a little better as a rookie. But Bordles showed
Speaker 1: the types of things that you like to see out
Speaker 1: of a young quarterback that you think he can be
Speaker 1: a lot better. And Dalton, on the other hand, even
Speaker 1: though he had that year in two thousand thirteen, people
Speaker 1: think of he was so great. He had yards, thirty
Speaker 1: three touchdowns s his QBR in his first four seasons
Speaker 1: are unbelievably similar forty ninety nine fifty five, so he's
Speaker 1: basically been the same guy all four years. Let me
Speaker 1: explain this in a more simpler way. If your choice
Speaker 1: is between Blake Bortles and Andy Dalton, Bordles carries no
Speaker 1: risk whatsoever because if he flames out, you're not left
Speaker 1: with Andy Dalton, overpaid at fifteen million dollars a year
Speaker 1: and stuck in mediocrity. You know that's there's no downside
Speaker 1: to it, and the downside to whipping on a getting five,
Speaker 1: yeah and get it's fun. Obviously now it is. There
Speaker 1: is guaranteed money, maybe not as much, but then you're
Speaker 1: basically when you with on a pick like that, your
Speaker 1: franchise sticks, isn't mud for years. You have a much
Speaker 1: better chance of building a Super Bowl contender with a
Speaker 1: three million dollar quarterback who has all the tools versus
Speaker 1: a guy like Andy Dalton, who really might stop you
Speaker 1: from signing some of your key players because you've got
Speaker 1: him making a few million dollars more than Carlos. Let's
Speaker 1: not get carried away. He's making sixteen million annually over
Speaker 1: the length of his deal. Let me throw another player
Speaker 1: out there, Sam Bradford, He to me, is right on
Speaker 1: that line where you could go either way. Do you
Speaker 1: see him as a part of the solution or part
Speaker 1: of the problem. I have him five spots ahead of
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton. Now he went for a first round pick
Speaker 1: if he was on the Rams, though, would you feel
Speaker 1: that way? It shouldn't matter what team he's on, You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? It's just Sam brand sure. I
Speaker 1: would say to that is that if someone is smart,
Speaker 1: as Chip Kelly sees value in him, that factors into
Speaker 1: the equation. I have a hard time putting him above
Speaker 1: the Dalton scale right now because I don't really have
Speaker 1: any faith. He hasn't shown much when he has been healthy,
Speaker 1: and I don't have any faith that he will stay healthy.
Speaker 1: So I actually think and Andy Dalton would would have
Speaker 1: the edge there. I agree. I think back to back
Speaker 1: knee injuries and the fact that, as far as I'm concerned, uh,
Speaker 1: Chip Kelly's plan was to flip Bradford all along and
Speaker 1: now he's stuck with him. So I'm sure he believes
Speaker 1: now that he's moving forward, he can turn Bradford into
Speaker 1: a successful quarterback. But at the same time, everyone knows
Speaker 1: what Chip wanted to do uh this month and it
Speaker 1: didn't work out, and now he's going to try to
Speaker 1: make the most of it with Bradford. How about I
Speaker 1: disagree with that? All right, let's here. I don't think
Speaker 1: that was ever like his plan all along with the
Speaker 1: trade Bradford, I don't think I don't agree with it.
Speaker 1: I think the funny thing is I'm putting him below that,
Speaker 1: and yet it wouldn't surprise me if Sam Bradford wins
Speaker 1: Comeback Player of the Year. And I think he's a
Speaker 1: guy that could be on our making the leap list.
Speaker 1: I think he's a guy who's set up to have
Speaker 1: a monster season. But he's someone I feel like I
Speaker 1: need to see it. With Andy Dalton, I've seen it.
Speaker 1: How about Joe Flacco? Now I know Rayvensons. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get some heat, uh for not including him in that
Speaker 1: list of ten that weren't even the discussion. Uh. This
Speaker 1: is a guy that has never missed a game, has
Speaker 1: been as dependable as against maybe not a statistical stud
Speaker 1: for most of his career, but he went on one
Speaker 1: of the best postseason runs ever that culminated with a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl m v P and a Super Bowl win
Speaker 1: over the forty niners, and this past January he was
Speaker 1: a stud at Giulette Stadium when Tote Toe of Peyton
Speaker 1: Manning came out on the losing end, but again showed
Speaker 1: that he's a playoff stud. I think he's absolutely on
Speaker 1: the right side of this discussion. And I don't know
Speaker 1: why would there would be any debate. I don't see
Speaker 1: any debate. I have him as a top ten quarterback
Speaker 1: and ten spots higher than Peyton Manning on my list.
Speaker 1: I thought there was a question mark in one of
Speaker 1: our initials. All right, good, I'm happy to hear no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I just I didn't I was more a question mark.
Speaker 1: Did you guys watch he was eleven on my list?
Speaker 1: I agree it shouldn't be a debate. And he's someone
Speaker 1: that's more impressive when you watch him, really than if
Speaker 1: you just look at the night Colin Okay, Colin Kaepernick
Speaker 1: San Francisco Forta on his quarterback. You know, he was
Speaker 1: in that Super Bowl as well, there that flack it
Speaker 1: was in and he was a stud in that game,
Speaker 1: and he was a stud in that season, and yet
Speaker 1: he's never really been able to take his game up
Speaker 1: since then. In fact, it seems like he's really Plateau.
Speaker 1: And now he's in a weird situation with the Niners
Speaker 1: and Jim tom Sula, Jim Harbaugh has gone, I'm this
Speaker 1: is crazy because remember we all we ever heard about
Speaker 1: was oh my god, that Bengals could have had Colin
Speaker 1: Kaepernick and they ended up with Antie Dalton. And now
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe it's not that it Wasn't that a
Speaker 1: huge mistake And it's not. It doesn't seem as as
Speaker 1: a backbreaking a mistake anymore as it once did. So
Speaker 1: where are you putting him? I'm gonna put him just
Speaker 1: above Dalton, but it's way closer than it was two
Speaker 1: years ago. It is closer. I I'm still trusting that
Speaker 1: initial flash of excitement with Kaepernick because the just the
Speaker 1: skill set he has was enough to make someone who's
Speaker 1: pretty smart about quarterbacks, Ron Jaworski, say that he's got
Speaker 1: the skills to be the best quarterback ever. That was ridiculous,
Speaker 1: which it was ridiculous, but you knew what he meant,
Speaker 1: which is that this guy is like a if you
Speaker 1: built a robot to play football, it'd be a lot
Speaker 1: like Colin Kaepernick and me Andrew Luck, not Colin kaeper
Speaker 1: that's fair. One thing. Also with Kaepernick, I could kind
Speaker 1: of see he's in a bit of a career valley
Speaker 1: maybe on some level right now, and I could still
Speaker 1: see getting maybe a little bit worse before it gets better.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if the Tom's Tom seula era
Speaker 1: doesn't last long and either he swept out Kaepernick or
Speaker 1: Tom Seuela swept down and there's another fresh start. I'm
Speaker 1: not giving up on Kaepernick, but I gotta I'm not
Speaker 1: sold that things are gonna get turned around this season.
Speaker 1: I'm putting him solidly above him. But I totally understand
Speaker 1: the debate because West, who do you think played better
Speaker 1: at football in two thousand fourteen? Andy Dalton or Kaepernick Kaepernick.
Speaker 1: It's close, though it was, it was not a good
Speaker 1: doll than year. Now, looking just at the two thousand
Speaker 1: fourteen season, we can to cry small sample size, but
Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick's playoff he has a QBR over eighty and
Speaker 1: Dalton has QBR under twenty. I mean to me, it's
Speaker 1: not even close. You see what one guy can do
Speaker 1: when the lights are on and the other guy doesn't.
Speaker 1: Eli Manning. Uh again, I'm I'm way on the plus
Speaker 1: side with this. Yeah he's us. Yeah, he's shown us
Speaker 1: twice in the playoffs. He takes his game up and
Speaker 1: Notch West. I know you haven't always been the biggest
Speaker 1: Eli fan, but you know you've said that Odell Beckham
Speaker 1: is a chance to take his career and make it
Speaker 1: a more explosive over years to come. We think he's
Speaker 1: safely above Andy Dalton. Correct. I have Eli Manning in
Speaker 1: the top fifteen and I have Andy Dalton below. So yes,
Speaker 1: what quarter backs that I want to go forward in?
Speaker 1: My friends, you're basically dare you to fund a problem
Speaker 1: with any of these guys? Any Well, how about let's
Speaker 1: I know you gotta live here, should we do? We
Speaker 1: want to hear West's twenty to twenty for sure? Throw
Speaker 1: him out twenty Teddy Bridgewater? Okay, I'm definitely would you
Speaker 1: take Bridgewater over Dalton? Dan? We should give our our
Speaker 1: ruling one Carson Palmer. Carson Palmer, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: He has been the guy when I do these rankings
Speaker 1: or whatever. Last year it was Palmer got hurt, But
Speaker 1: even during the season, he to me is right at
Speaker 1: the Dalton scale. It's funny because he's the guy Dalton
Speaker 1: replaced thirteen and two in his last fifteen games passer
Speaker 1: rating of nineties seven. Wait, we talked about that hasn't
Speaker 1: been able to win loss stuff is mislead by the way.
Speaker 1: I love it that you're talking about. Carson Palmer was
Speaker 1: talking Carson Balmer, you can't hang it all at the
Speaker 1: quarterback speed. We've We've talked about that the other direction
Speaker 1: before in this very podcast, that it's unfair to to
Speaker 1: take Andy Dalton winning ten games every year and put
Speaker 1: it at his feet. This is well, I think thirteen
Speaker 1: and two is a lot different than tendants. I wish
Speaker 1: I could take a time machine back to two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten or eleven and be like, hey, Wes, Greg
Speaker 1: was right about Hey, Greg was right coaching matters. Carson
Speaker 1: Palmer is excelling under the tutelage of Bruce. How about
Speaker 1: the fact that he's coming off a second a c
Speaker 1: l years old. I still want that over the purgatory,
Speaker 1: that is, and Dalton not just for one season. You're
Speaker 1: looking here's the exactly But like I said, I'm probably
Speaker 1: gonna cut Andy Dalton next year anyway because he's overpaid.
Speaker 1: You're struggling with the contract I'm thinking more just about
Speaker 1: the player and for me, for Palmer. When I asked
Speaker 1: the question, do you still need a quarterback if you
Speaker 1: have Palmer? The answer to me is yes, because he
Speaker 1: can't answer with Dalton, isn't it? Well, then he's not
Speaker 1: the then he See. This is where I always get confused,
Speaker 1: because then the Dalton scale doesn't work because if I
Speaker 1: didn't know the answer, WHOA, but this is your scale.
Speaker 1: I just told you the day I had this epiphany
Speaker 1: that it's got an existential crisis. I was right all along.
Speaker 1: Well it comes to work when he got paid two
Speaker 1: million dollars. Make sense though, right thet see what does
Speaker 1: make sense makes sense If you don't really know which
Speaker 1: side Dalton is on Bengals, you know for sure that
Speaker 1: means there's got to be someone to take his place,
Speaker 1: like Carson Palmer. Maybe Andy Dalton should not be this
Speaker 1: is about anymore? Oh, I like where you're going here.
Speaker 1: It's a Palmer scale. Wow, this is a history being made.
Speaker 1: During the podcast, we give West, we give West an assignment,
Speaker 1: and suddenly he starts searching his soul. Bengals fans that
Speaker 1: are out there, we feel your pain. This is what
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton's doing to us. He's making us crazy. Palmer
Speaker 1: scale has a ring to it. Could be the Palmer
Speaker 1: scale this year? What about the Alex Smith Scale? WHOA,
Speaker 1: that's that is a great name? Is that your next
Speaker 1: on your alright? Alex Smith? Let's Alex Smith is twenty two.
Speaker 1: I docked him about two or three spots just because
Speaker 1: he's so boring to watch and if I was running
Speaker 1: a team, I wouldn't want even watch my own team.
Speaker 1: And a certain NFL media analyst, Elliott Harrison, put him
Speaker 1: in his top ten quarterbacks, which he put up that
Speaker 1: was published on the site. Well, like my quarterbacks to
Speaker 1: be able to throw it more than seven yards down
Speaker 1: or be willing to throw it more than seven yards
Speaker 1: down the field. Can I just say, you know one
Speaker 1: thing in his defense? I mean he's playing in in
Speaker 1: Kansas City, and you know, nobody on the Around the
Speaker 1: NFL podcast gets excited about the Chiefs. Really, what if
Speaker 1: Alex was in a better situation and he's the biggest problem.
Speaker 1: He's the most boring quarterback to watch, But if he
Speaker 1: was playing in Kelly's offense, he would still be boring
Speaker 1: to watch. He's, first of all, he's a good runner.
Speaker 1: He maximizes everything he has. I think usually you give
Speaker 1: people credit for in sports, like they run a totally
Speaker 1: different offense than the rest of the league, and yet
Speaker 1: they're pretty effective with it. So I think he is
Speaker 1: a good case. Though he's one of the smartest NFL quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I think that part of his game is underrated. He
Speaker 1: just doesn't trust his arm and there are a lot
Speaker 1: of quarterbacks who wouldn't take it, or a lot of
Speaker 1: coaches he wouldn't take him. If we're again going back
Speaker 1: to is that the guy do you think you have
Speaker 1: a quarterback? I don't think you do. I think you
Speaker 1: have a bridge guy, maybe the best bridge guy, Alex Smith.
Speaker 1: Don't see him as an answer. Chiefs fans would take
Speaker 1: this as an insult. Andy Reid certainly would based on
Speaker 1: the contracts he's been given. Andy's Alex Smith. But maybe
Speaker 1: Alex Smith is the guy who's the twenty four. Is
Speaker 1: that where we're at Cutler, Oh, he's a little higher
Speaker 1: than I thought he'd be. That's a couple of spots
Speaker 1: higher than I definitely don't think that's pretty low. It's
Speaker 1: just that Dalton is wildly low. Well, Cutler's is the
Speaker 1: same thing with Alex Smith. If I'm running the team,
Speaker 1: I gotta watch this guy. I gotta hang out with
Speaker 1: this dude. I'm definitely I'm putting Cutler definitely below if
Speaker 1: they think they have their quarterback right exactly that that's
Speaker 1: that hurts me because he picked up his option. They did,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I still don't think it necess million guaranteed.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's tough one. If you if you have
Speaker 1: Ja Cutler, there's a small chance that you can pull
Speaker 1: a Flacco and catch lightning in the bottle in the
Speaker 1: playoffs just by pure physical talent. I don't believe Andy
Speaker 1: Dalton can Bears fans would argue the playoffs every year
Speaker 1: sounds pretty good. Many times his Cutler got him there
Speaker 1: to three. I'm glad Bears fans are now to the
Speaker 1: point where I was four years ago on color Um.
Speaker 1: There's a perfect guy to talk about there. That's a
Speaker 1: tough one. The Cutler scale, well, no, I mean now,
Speaker 1: I don't know. If he's a good guy, he's right
Speaker 1: around it. I would put him under it. He's a
Speaker 1: guy who's for the first time in his career, I
Speaker 1: think he's below the Dalton scale. M How about we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about him, and I would assume he's probably
Speaker 1: ahead of the guy some of these recent guys we
Speaker 1: talked about. But Cam Newton, Oh yeah, I got him
Speaker 1: in the top ten. There was and an internal email
Speaker 1: there was that he was not on the definite list.
Speaker 1: That's why he wasn't one that was just for you guys,
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to assume that you were just
Speaker 1: going with my opinion. But yeah, I would definitely put
Speaker 1: and we agree with Tannehill is definitely above Dalton, right, yeah, Tannehill. Okay, alright,
Speaker 1: how about Matt Stafford. Yeah, he's a he's frustrating. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have him that high. Okay, This is where this
Speaker 1: discussion gets tricky though, because as yes, he's above Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: but what a bit is he above Carson Palmer? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: not by that much. Last year I had him as
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, for two thousand fourteen alone seventeen
Speaker 1: that was right behind Kaepernick and Alex Smith. That's the
Speaker 1: type of year that Matthew Stafford had. He did not
Speaker 1: have a very good two thousand fourteen, but I think
Speaker 1: he's had better years before. It's just frustrating because you
Speaker 1: think he's gonna a lot of stock in two. I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just using that as my as my rough
Speaker 1: guide to look ahead. To look at the names I have,
Speaker 1: um n A next to Jamis Winston and Marcus Mariota.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll wait and see. I've got them at least
Speaker 1: ten spots higher than Andy Dalton, so without even playing
Speaker 1: there above him. Well, I mean, what do you how
Speaker 1: do you think NFL executives feel about this? They wouldn't
Speaker 1: take three first round picks for I mean, the Bucks
Speaker 1: wouldn't take three first round picks, and other teams were
Speaker 1: offering that. I need to see it before. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: put Mariota above it. I would put Winston. Come on,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't. If you were given a choice to run
Speaker 1: a franchise and it was between Andy Dalton and Marcus Mariotta,
Speaker 1: you would be cursed to go eight and eight the
Speaker 1: rest of your life, and you would deserve it. He
Speaker 1: throws his hands up. I know, when did Greg become
Speaker 1: this hothouse flower? It's more than Dalton scale. It's driving
Speaker 1: it a crazy. I don't know what to today. I
Speaker 1: thought it was an evaluation. How about this? Now I
Speaker 1: have this category fringe slash Dalton. Part of the evaluation
Speaker 1: is projecting quarterbacks into the future. You rather have how
Speaker 1: about Derek Carr? Well, hang on, all right, everybody slow
Speaker 1: down here fringe slash Dalton purgatory. I had Jay Cutler
Speaker 1: on this list, but we moved him out. We talked
Speaker 1: about him already. Derek Carr, Nick Foles and Robert Riven
Speaker 1: the third I have those. Those are the three closest
Speaker 1: guy to Andy Dalton on my list, and they are
Speaker 1: on yours as well. No, I have them, you know,
Speaker 1: far behind. Um Oh, okay, I have Derek Carr. I
Speaker 1: headed Dalton in It kind of pain me to do it.
Speaker 1: Car was. I mean, if you got to look at
Speaker 1: some of the stats on the Raiders last year historically
Speaker 1: inept at moving the football right, you can say, well not,
Speaker 1: you can't say the same thing, but you can look
Speaker 1: at some pretty nasty Blake Bortles stats to last year
Speaker 1: and you have him well ahead of Yeah. I saw
Speaker 1: more out of portals by a lot, and I would
Speaker 1: put car behind Dalton on this, But now the whole
Speaker 1: scale is confused. Now it's problematic because if Dalton passes
Speaker 1: up the whole scale, if we are in agreeance that
Speaker 1: he is that far down or even near that area.
Speaker 1: He's gotta be out, we gotta, we gotta change. I'm in,
Speaker 1: I'm around. You've got Mariota below him, and I don't
Speaker 1: believe for a second you would do that, Nick Foles.
Speaker 1: I have him one spot below Dalton, just because I
Speaker 1: saw him way too much inaccuracy and bad to me.
Speaker 1: Going back again to the term this guy the answer
Speaker 1: or is he the problem? He's not an answer. I'm
Speaker 1: not ready to say he's absolutely the problem, but I
Speaker 1: know he's not a long term answer. Yeah, I put him,
Speaker 1: putting him behind, I'll put Mariota ahead. What And finally
Speaker 1: r G three and he's there. He's even this time
Speaker 1: last year, Um, West, I know you were big on
Speaker 1: a come back here. I was big on a comeback
Speaker 1: here as sure as hell didn't happened. So now there's
Speaker 1: a there's a real chance that this guy is just
Speaker 1: shot and he's never gonna regain that spark. But it's
Speaker 1: still there in the back of a lot of people's minds.
Speaker 1: Can he ever get back something? And it's not just
Speaker 1: physically anymore, there's something mentally up with him too. In
Speaker 1: my mind, he doesn't have a confidence he once had. Well,
Speaker 1: this is the point where if we had a you know,
Speaker 1: big time producer. TD just jumps in right now and
Speaker 1: he says, I've got a little surprise. I've got Jake
Speaker 1: Gruden on the phone for you. He's coached Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: He's coached r G three. He's gonna tell you at
Speaker 1: the very least, Frank Caliendo, Well, I have none of those.
Speaker 1: I did have an RG three. I'll take though. I'm
Speaker 1: sure that would be just as in week two or
Speaker 1: week three, whatever week that was where he got injured.
Speaker 1: A drive a couple of days before you got injured,
Speaker 1: actually got to look decent. That's telling that you can
Speaker 1: pick out and then you add a bunch of qualifiers.
Speaker 1: He actually kind of that. That is damning, not even
Speaker 1: with faint praise. It's just InCred first couple of plays.
Speaker 1: Whatever this is, I guess whatever this is the Dalton
Speaker 1: scale or whatever it is going forward right now, to me,
Speaker 1: there's no way you can put him on the plus
Speaker 1: side of this. He's got to earn. His wife got
Speaker 1: him one spot ahead of Dalton. Do you think he
Speaker 1: is the answer right now? Well, I no, I don't
Speaker 1: because I think I've already abandoned that definition. I've got
Speaker 1: a new definition. This is why I was this is
Speaker 1: I'm operating under a different thing that basically it's where
Speaker 1: you're at. Right, then it's not betting on the rest
Speaker 1: of your right Now, there's no chance r G three's
Speaker 1: above him. Well, of course, your job is to look
Speaker 1: at this like a general manager, not like some I'm
Speaker 1: in a podcast studio. Your job is to say, who
Speaker 1: do I want for my franchise going forward? Let's put
Speaker 1: it this way, who would you rather have, Like we
Speaker 1: would have an al G three in the chance little
Speaker 1: chance that he has that he's something close to his
Speaker 1: rookie year, or would you have rather have Dalton? Who
Speaker 1: you know, I would rather have RG three and a
Speaker 1: zero point eight chance that he ever comes close to
Speaker 1: his rookie year. Dalton has a has less of a
Speaker 1: chance of ever make being any better than after two
Speaker 1: years of misery. Yes, I believe it. Well, here you're
Speaker 1: talking about in the vasum like you're just starting a franchise.
Speaker 1: I'm often thinking of what if I have the Seahawks,
Speaker 1: because that's the team where you feel like you don't
Speaker 1: really need a quarterback that badly. And in that case
Speaker 1: it's like I would rather take my national TV a lot.
Speaker 1: We're winning playoff games with Dalton. No you're not. Here's
Speaker 1: my I've got a new definition. So any Dalton now
Speaker 1: to me, isn't the point of whether you would rather
Speaker 1: have these guys? To me? The point is more do
Speaker 1: I want Andy Dalton even my roster or have a
Speaker 1: fifteen million a year at his salary? Do I even
Speaker 1: want him on my roster? So in most these situations,
Speaker 1: I would rather have the other guy on my roster.
Speaker 1: The Dalton scale is a big sloppy mess in him half,
Speaker 1: I think just let's change it. Let's change the Palmer, right.
Speaker 1: I think the real question is do we want Andy
Speaker 1: Dalton on the Dalton's It always struck me as odd
Speaker 1: is that we had him as the middle guy when
Speaker 1: everyone in the room was so against him as being
Speaker 1: anything close to an answer. We always had him in
Speaker 1: the middle, but I think they always thought he was
Speaker 1: a piece of garbage and and when he should clearly
Speaker 1: be on the other and now like he's he never changed.
Speaker 1: He's still the same guy. That's the problem. It's four
Speaker 1: years now and he's probably gotten a little worth. That's
Speaker 1: why you said he was that guy in the first place.
Speaker 1: He said that he wasn't going to get better. Well,
Speaker 1: in fact, he's regressed. Spoiler. This is another spoiler for you, TD.
Speaker 1: Did you get Caliendo on the line to podcaster of
Speaker 1: the days at a is Dan Hansas for Scale over
Speaker 1: the years has been proven correct and we're all winners
Speaker 1: because you don't get to give one out. However, quick
Speaker 1: producing note, though, I say keep the Dulton stale. This
Speaker 1: is part of the show, guys, It's part of the intrigue.
Speaker 1: Not knowing exactly where he is. I think we're getting
Speaker 1: We're starting to figure it out. Our listeners can let
Speaker 1: us know, you know, sent us with a hashtag Doulton
Speaker 1: Scale what you guys think about this guy. But he's
Speaker 1: probably regressed, that hasn't gone better. But it's still in
Speaker 1: the same position where he puts the seam in the
Speaker 1: playoffs and always loses. He's the perfect guy for this
Speaker 1: game guy. Also, I think he's going to have a
Speaker 1: career year in two thousand. All right, now, I'm really confused.
Speaker 1: It's all about surrounding talent. West is I think this
Speaker 1: is the effect of West having no sleep like at
Speaker 1: word long form that is in the middle of an
Speaker 1: edit process, and he's an emotional powder chick. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a lot that went into this. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: know if I wanted to bring this up quite yet.
Speaker 1: But let's say it had a little bit of a
Speaker 1: cathartic nature in my Bengals fandom. Yeah, we put a
Speaker 1: pin in that because we will save that for Thursday.
Speaker 1: We got to talk about that. We're at a time though,
Speaker 1: well not yet already did it really quick? All right? Um? Yes,
Speaker 1: Podcast of the Day actually does go to Dan Um.
Speaker 1: It did more than host today. He was trafficking. He
Speaker 1: researched Steve Nash tidbit was fun, That Pro football talk
Speaker 1: tidbit was good. He asked the quintessential question, are we
Speaker 1: going to have to pull you aside in the serious
Speaker 1: manner and tell you that this isn't gonna work as
Speaker 1: a segment. I mean, you're winning. You're winning. That's why
Speaker 1: you should take this as very serious saying this. I
Speaker 1: think I don't know that Soldiers. Just with that, I
Speaker 1: liked it as a segment. You can need to work
Speaker 1: on your explanations. Why just you know, pick like one thing,
Speaker 1: just one thing. Maybe yeah, maybe it's a Tighten at
Speaker 1: the End podcast MTP, bang for the podcast MVP now
Speaker 1: given a title. I don't know I have because sometimes
Speaker 1: you're like giving all these reasons and some of them
Speaker 1: are a little thin sometimes, and I know you, you
Speaker 1: and Cessler sometimes are odds. If we if we're going
Speaker 1: like ten shows deep and Cesslor doesn't have the m
Speaker 1: v P, it's just gonna lead to that's gonna He's
Speaker 1: gonna be the onening bit. He never wins. Oh, it's
Speaker 1: like the for Eddie Roosevelt in the Washington National Alright,
Speaker 1: and I'm back in all right, that's it. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. If if you were able to follow along, congratulations.
Speaker 1: But we'll be back on Thursday with another show. Greg,
Speaker 1: You're going on um staycation. Uh No, I'm going to
Speaker 1: Massachusetts to be with my parents with Bacase, my daughter Elis.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go. So it's gonna be U the Great
Speaker 1: Chris Westling and I as well as Colleen wolf Will
Speaker 1: will rejoin us in the studio. Looking forward to that.
Speaker 1: So that's Thursday. Uh. This Dan hansis uh signing up
Speaker 1: for the Great White Tube k compliance Officer and the
Speaker 1: Boss and of course t D who I love behind
Speaker 1: the glass until Thursday,