Speaker 1: The Around the League Podcast voted against Josh Freeman as captain.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Round the League Podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Dan Henderson. I am joined by a
Speaker 1: room full of heroes, Chris Westling, Mark Sessler, and Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1: What up, boys? You just did that intro, but then
Speaker 1: you did it again. I'm confused why you did it
Speaker 1: a second time? I put Greg, I put your name
Speaker 1: before Marks. I never do that, so I need to
Speaker 1: do it again. I think the viewers, the listeners would
Speaker 1: be okay with that. You think subconsciously, actually subconsciously, you
Speaker 1: were dissing Mark because he uh, he's a kind of
Speaker 1: a trader. Why am I a trader? Bad point? Well,
Speaker 1: we came up a little bit of a late start
Speaker 1: for the podcast today because we came up to Studio
Speaker 1: sixty six during our regular time and upstairs Dave damashek
Speaker 1: still rolling and Mark Sessler was a guest on the
Speaker 1: Damnascheck pod. So it was a little off putting on
Speaker 1: some level for the A t L boys to come
Speaker 1: upstairs to our podcast and then there Sessler running late
Speaker 1: with well, I mean you know that it's beyond any
Speaker 1: humans ability to stop him from a show going late.
Speaker 1: I had little to do with that, but I believe
Speaker 1: Wes joined the show days ago, and days before that
Speaker 1: you joined the shape. That was before we were told,
Speaker 1: specifically by Mr Damaschik, that he is planning a fight
Speaker 1: between his foursome and our foursom. Well, I'm just wondering
Speaker 1: what side Sessler is gonna be on. This reminds me
Speaker 1: a little bit of when the Patriots went to the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Bill Parcels is having phone conversations to
Speaker 1: take a job with the Jets. Divided loyalties. We'll let
Speaker 1: you pick the groceries, Mark hey Um. By the way,
Speaker 1: k Rich, we had a we have new drops at
Speaker 1: the beginning. We have new intros. Matt money Smith was
Speaker 1: nice enough to record. I thought the one we used
Speaker 1: today was fitting, and we'll get to that in the news.
Speaker 1: But I we did a pretty good job. We got
Speaker 1: everything Crystal wanted, and she seems to be in a
Speaker 1: better mood now because we listened to her. K Rich
Speaker 1: is so much happier. And if you guys can tell,
Speaker 1: you all retreated to Candy this morning. So Rich just
Speaker 1: when Ricky Anderson on Third Person, we have a big
Speaker 1: Thursday night game coming up, but we're gonna start with
Speaker 1: the headlines. K Rich take it away, alright, Bucks head
Speaker 1: coach Greg Ciano, by the way, in the hot seat
Speaker 1: or not, I will always have love for my fellow, Yes,
Speaker 1: fellow Scarlet Knight has announced that Mike Lennon will be
Speaker 1: the starting QB first the Cards. Well, I guess I'll start,
Speaker 1: and I will say this is the right move. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's time to move on from Josh Freeman. Arguably the
Speaker 1: time was after last year and with the season going
Speaker 1: nowhere in Freeman completing his passes, let's just earnered over
Speaker 1: to the rookie and see if you could save the season. Oh,
Speaker 1: it was inevitable. And I find it funny that we
Speaker 1: probably wrote seventy two eighties stories over the off season
Speaker 1: of Shiano promising that I don't know what you guys
Speaker 1: are talking about. Josh Freeman is my quarterback, will be
Speaker 1: continue to be my quarterback no matter what. First sign
Speaker 1: of trouble and he's gone. But listen, they inherited him,
Speaker 1: they drafted someone else. That's never a good situation for
Speaker 1: the sitting quarterback. I think the lesson for me is
Speaker 1: now Freeman is on the trade block our Ian Rapp
Speaker 1: Report reports how quickly the change happens. In the NFL
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, their quarterback coach said he wouldn't
Speaker 1: swap Freeman for any other quarterback in NFL. Collinsworth ranked
Speaker 1: Freeman ahead of Eli Manning and Matt Ryan and his
Speaker 1: quarterback rankings that year, Freeman was getting some comparisons outrageous
Speaker 1: though they were too big Ben as a big, hulking
Speaker 1: quarterback with mobility you couldn't bring down. He had to
Speaker 1: six tdd interception ratio completion percentage Over was seen as
Speaker 1: a leader at the time, a guy that you want
Speaker 1: to build your franchise around. Mark Dominic and Raheem Moore
Speaker 1: has both made it clear that third number one priority
Speaker 1: was just making sure we get more weapons for our
Speaker 1: new leader, who was basically the face of the franchise.
Speaker 1: Three years later, Jets fans are telling me they wouldn't
Speaker 1: take Freeman over Geno Smith. To me, as a football observer,
Speaker 1: your antenna should be raised when conventional wisdom on one
Speaker 1: player vacillates that much in a two or three year period. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's not as bad, I don't think, as he's played
Speaker 1: this year, although he has played very poorly. But I
Speaker 1: think it's just such a big moment in Siano's tenure
Speaker 1: here and you have to wonder about his future, certainly
Speaker 1: Mike Sullivan, the offensive coordinator's future. This is a team,
Speaker 1: you know, lining up in the wrong spot, a lot
Speaker 1: of penalties. Mike Williams didn't seem to know what he
Speaker 1: was doing on the field last week, so it just
Speaker 1: wasn't Freeman. Do you guys think if this doesn't turn it?
Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine Mike Glennon turning this team round
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, Shiano kind of compared him to, Hey,
Speaker 1: there's some rookie quarterbacks in the playoffs last year where
Speaker 1: this doesn't mean you know, we're gonna lose if this
Speaker 1: season goes really poorly, let's say two and fourteen, three
Speaker 1: and thirteen. Do you think Shianno could lose his job? Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think it's one thing for Freeman after you've already
Speaker 1: greased the kids for his departure all off season. It's
Speaker 1: another thing when a guy like Darell Rivas, who your
Speaker 1: owner basically went out and made a trade for, gave
Speaker 1: him a huge contract, is already unhappy with the head
Speaker 1: coach to me, that's a that's a battle for power
Speaker 1: that Rivas might win over Shiano. I'll take a step further.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be stunned if at if they are two
Speaker 1: and nine in November he gets fired then I I
Speaker 1: mean I think that he he lost a lot of
Speaker 1: his mojo last year. He kind of you know, as
Speaker 1: the year when went along. I know that, you know,
Speaker 1: taking over initially for the younger era kind of worked.
Speaker 1: But you know, that discipline act, it doesn't really hold
Speaker 1: up in the NFL, especially if you don't win and
Speaker 1: they're not winning, so you could see where that could
Speaker 1: lead to a mutiny rather quickly. One more thing on
Speaker 1: glenn and Jason Smith, who was in the studio before.
Speaker 1: He said Bucky brooks Um who is our one of
Speaker 1: our draft poo bas. He said that Sana was a
Speaker 1: big fan of Glennon. He recruited him. He didn't go
Speaker 1: to Rutgers, but he recruited him. And they're gonna push
Speaker 1: the ball down field. It's likely they'll push the ball
Speaker 1: down field with Glennon and he's gonna take some chances.
Speaker 1: So don't expect any handcuff situations for this offense. And
Speaker 1: maybe this will be good news for Vincent Jackson. It
Speaker 1: just seems so random though. I mean, if if Lavonte
Speaker 1: David doesn't have that penalty, Josh Freeman's probably the quarterback, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not kind of replace them, right. The
Speaker 1: move happened sooner because the fact that the Bucks are
Speaker 1: owing three. No team in the history of the NFL
Speaker 1: had lost two games in the last what was it
Speaker 1: five seconds or something like that they did in a row.
Speaker 1: And I think that Freeman's you know, core was real
Speaker 1: tight to begin with. They don't believe in him, and
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to look at what he did
Speaker 1: this season and really argue with that. But I don't
Speaker 1: think Sana is gonna be gone this season after the season. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think Siano
Speaker 1: it would be in too much troubled and almost no
Speaker 1: matter how bad this season goes. That's just my read
Speaker 1: on kind of what they're buying into the Shiano program.
Speaker 1: I think the first fall guy after Freeman then would
Speaker 1: be Mike Sullivan, and the next one might be Mark Dominic,
Speaker 1: the general manager. He's the one that's picked all these players.
Speaker 1: He's been around there longer and This is just a
Speaker 1: total guest, but I think Siano might have a better
Speaker 1: chance of sticking around than all of them. And it
Speaker 1: wouldn't shock me either if they turn this thing around
Speaker 1: a little bit and win some games and at least
Speaker 1: make it respectable, because it's a great defense. Alright, cay Rich.
Speaker 1: What else is in the news? Al right? Next up,
Speaker 1: Vikings quarterback Christian Ponder reveals his rib injury. I personally
Speaker 1: am wondering who's more affected, Leslie Fraser Samantha Ponder at what? Yeah?
Speaker 1: At all? Right? Okay, well, all right, well here we go.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? Could we see Matt Castle
Speaker 1: this week? Tom Brady and his press conference kinda hinted
Speaker 1: at the fact that maybe Matt Castle was starting this week.
Speaker 1: It sounded like maybe he had a conversation with Castle
Speaker 1: and that they were talking about Castle getting on on
Speaker 1: the field. You had said before the season, didn't you.
Speaker 1: You had asked us the over under of when we'll
Speaker 1: see Castle? I said six games. I didn't factor injury
Speaker 1: into it though, right to be fair, maybe they'll go
Speaker 1: after Josh Freeman. Is that at all possible? I don't
Speaker 1: think it's over for Freeman by any stretch, and I
Speaker 1: think he certainly showed enough. It's not like Sanchez, where
Speaker 1: I think the well is so poisoned at this point
Speaker 1: that would be very difficult for him to walk into
Speaker 1: another starting job. I feel like Freeman, if a team
Speaker 1: bought in, he could have a chance to to salvage
Speaker 1: his career here. But uh, I don't know. This front
Speaker 1: office does have a history of making desperation plays for
Speaker 1: veteran quarterbacks who washed out in other places. Who would
Speaker 1: you be referring to? Brett Farve Donovan McNabb. To me,
Speaker 1: the most similar situation is mcnabbs In two thousand and eleven,
Speaker 1: McNabb had a ten million dollar bonus coming which couldn't
Speaker 1: be written off. It had to be that the team
Speaker 1: acquiring him had to find a way to satisfy McNabb's
Speaker 1: financial demands and satisfy the other team's draft pick compensation.
Speaker 1: That's a similar situation to now Well. I would say.
Speaker 1: The difference though, is that McNabb, for better or worse,
Speaker 1: came with some sort of a pedigree, where with Freeman. Honestly,
Speaker 1: if a team wants to make a change at quarterback
Speaker 1: and bring Freeman in, beyond the salary and the ponderous
Speaker 1: you know contract situation there. He's not a guy that
Speaker 1: you can put into a new offense and roll out
Speaker 1: on Sunday, where I think you could with Farv and
Speaker 1: you could with McNabb to some degree. I think Freeman
Speaker 1: needs a full offseason to develop and be coached well
Speaker 1: on another team before we roll him out again as
Speaker 1: another starter. And in Minnesota, I mean, for me, with
Speaker 1: the Ponder and the Castle thing, what's the difference between
Speaker 1: the two, Well, you would hope if you're the Vikings,
Speaker 1: you would hope there is a difference because otherwise, a
Speaker 1: journeyman at this point, backup quarterback that you're not paying
Speaker 1: that much money is just as good as you're supposed
Speaker 1: franchise quarterback. You're coming from the vantage point that you've
Speaker 1: already given up on Christian Ponder as a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're there as an organization yet.
Speaker 1: If they are, it's a it's a bad place to be.
Speaker 1: And I don't think they would go get Freeman because
Speaker 1: he's doing so much money and they probably figure what's
Speaker 1: the difference between him and Matt Castle. Anyways, and while
Speaker 1: we you know, while we're here and we're If we're
Speaker 1: gonna mention Brett Farve, we got to mention what his agent,
Speaker 1: Bus Cook said yesterday. UM, I almost feel like it
Speaker 1: would be nice to have some romantic R and B
Speaker 1: music behind us. Um. His arms look like a blacksmith's arms.
Speaker 1: He rides a bike, probably thirty to fifty miles a day.
Speaker 1: He runs four or five miles a day. He's coaching
Speaker 1: at the high school and they're undefeated. He loves his
Speaker 1: body fat seven and he weighs two. He could play
Speaker 1: today better than a lot of them that's there today.
Speaker 1: I feel like he just boiled down the script of
Speaker 1: Forrest Gump into two sentences like that is old enough.
Speaker 1: He was alive when they were blacksmith around. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I'm want blacksmith's arms. And honestly, what is the
Speaker 1: dynamic of this Cook far relationship in two thousand thirteen
Speaker 1: to know all this information about him? His exact body
Speaker 1: fat percentage is a He is a working farmer at
Speaker 1: this point, and you know, for those of us that
Speaker 1: have just had desk jobs for the last twenty years,
Speaker 1: a working farmer has a lot of natural strength. He
Speaker 1: works on one of those bicycle farms. He's around his farmland.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming I might take him over you are I
Speaker 1: might take him over Ponder though, I think from the
Speaker 1: description that Cook's giving it, he has to be doing
Speaker 1: like the Rocky training montage in Russia every day to
Speaker 1: have this type of build for what is forties, like
Speaker 1: bench pressing railroad ties. Yeah, like climbing a mountain and
Speaker 1: maybe yelling Ponder or something. The thing. The last time
Speaker 1: we saw farv and it was on some television segment
Speaker 1: like a couple of months ago, he's like an exiting president,
Speaker 1: like his hair turned snow white, and he suddenly aged
Speaker 1: like eight years, like a gymnast body after she leaves
Speaker 1: gymnastics behind. Here's the question I opposed to you. You
Speaker 1: don't have to cover the game. You don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about the pregame height or the post game fallout.
Speaker 1: You don't have to have a take. Are you taking
Speaker 1: Brett Farve over Andy Dalton two quarterback the Bengals offense? Yes,
Speaker 1: just to watch because Andy Dalton's maybe the most boring
Speaker 1: quarterback to watch in the last twenty years and there.
Speaker 1: But I would take a Killie Smith over Andy Dalton too.
Speaker 1: Just because it would be tomic, it would be a
Speaker 1: train wreck. You'd maybe you'd be like, well, far you're
Speaker 1: talking about five, who has that thing to him that factory?
Speaker 1: Do not have that in the NFL right now? And
Speaker 1: by the way, Greg's QB buzz index is that what
Speaker 1: it's called quarterback in Quarterback Index is presented by Wrangler.
Speaker 1: So that might anything else in the news, Yes, we
Speaker 1: sure do you have more? After a huge upset win
Speaker 1: over the Vikings in week three, I'm not at all
Speaker 1: surprised by this news. Ryan Hoyer will start again for
Speaker 1: the Browns in Week four against the Bengals. Mark well
Speaker 1: Weeden is injured. In theory he's injured. Yeah, in theory,
Speaker 1: I don't. Again, I stick with the fact, the idea,
Speaker 1: not the fact that we will not see weed And
Speaker 1: again this season. Did you see the last Batman movie,
Speaker 1: Dark Knight returns. Maybe at one point Baine defeats Batman
Speaker 1: and then he puts him in this cave where other
Speaker 1: prisoners are. Captain climb out of a cave. I feel
Speaker 1: like Weedon might be somewhere beneath Brea in one of
Speaker 1: those death Rattle caves down there. I think that's where yes,
Speaker 1: is that not how you pronounce it? That is Barria.
Speaker 1: I believe. The other news today in Cleveland was you
Speaker 1: know Dynski or Josh Gordon said that Rob Chodynsky told
Speaker 1: them that they will not be trading him if if
Speaker 1: they did trade Josh Gordon after that performance last week,
Speaker 1: Like do you would you support that? Because I honestly
Speaker 1: would say that that that would as a as you
Speaker 1: remove everything else as a fan, that would anger me
Speaker 1: where that Richardson deal did not anger me. If you
Speaker 1: start if you shop away Gordon, it's like this is
Speaker 1: a genuine They haven't had a receiver like that in decades,
Speaker 1: and you know what, you're not going to get what
Speaker 1: you should get form in a trade because he's one
Speaker 1: bad test away from being gone for a year. So
Speaker 1: they'd have to shop him low and that would that
Speaker 1: would make me upset. Yes, people think of him as
Speaker 1: a deep threat, but he was any good last week
Speaker 1: after the catchment until shut him down. He he made
Speaker 1: some plays in the second half. He can't stop how
Speaker 1: it was like Chyls played a great game. One thing
Speaker 1: that got lost in Hoyer's game was that he had
Speaker 1: there was a stretcher. They had eight possessions with no
Speaker 1: points and three interceptions. Well that's Brown's football, Greg in
Speaker 1: the last draft. Anything else in the news? K Rich
Speaker 1: All right, thank you very much. K Rich. Alright, moving
Speaker 1: right along. We talked about the fine people at Wrangler,
Speaker 1: Oh with their nice blue jeans so well cut. They
Speaker 1: have presented a t L the Quarterback Index, Greg's running
Speaker 1: series this season. Greg released his his latest edition today
Speaker 1: on the Around the League blog. We implore you check
Speaker 1: it out. So, Greg, do you want to tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about your thinking? I mean, you rank
Speaker 1: what do you have? Are you ranked the top ten quarterbacks? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about ten and then a few that are close.
Speaker 1: And this week I just kind of switched it to
Speaker 1: just you know, radium on this season alone. So Tom
Speaker 1: Brady is not there because he's not playing that well
Speaker 1: yet this season. It's not a legacy thing. And and
Speaker 1: the guy that I struggled the most with was Philip
Speaker 1: Rivers because I watched every throw the last two weeks
Speaker 1: that he made, and I think there's only one or
Speaker 1: two bad ones. I don't know how many quarterbacks are
Speaker 1: playing better than Philip Rivers right now. This is Greg's
Speaker 1: top five. Peyton Manning which no one's gonna argue with
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers. No one should argue with Philip Rivers at
Speaker 1: number three, which should be argued with then Drew Drew Brees,
Speaker 1: and then perhaps surprisingly Matt Ryan at number five. I
Speaker 1: I will take umbradge with Philip Rivers. You know, I
Speaker 1: am very anti Chargers this year after what happened in
Speaker 1: Week one with my hero pick being torn asunder, But
Speaker 1: I will reference that Week one game. Yes, he's been
Speaker 1: on balance, it's been a big bounce back season for
Speaker 1: Philip Rivers, but I do remember him throwing around a
Speaker 1: lot of those Rivers groundballs in the first half and
Speaker 1: the second half of that game. And if we're only
Speaker 1: basing this on three games, and he blew one of
Speaker 1: them or helped blow one of them, and they've lost
Speaker 1: two of three games, how is he number three on
Speaker 1: this list? Well, the only interception in that game was
Speaker 1: an exceptional play from Cushing. He had a bad half.
Speaker 1: You could go through all these guys and they all
Speaker 1: had a bad half, and other than that, except from
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning, Rogers had an uneven game against Cincinnati too.
Speaker 1: I did think about that. They've all had mild ups
Speaker 1: and downs. But other than that, I think Philip Rivers
Speaker 1: played five of the best halfs that you'll ever see.
Speaker 1: The game against the Titans, I couldn't believe when I watched.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was just so accurate. He really didn't
Speaker 1: have a bad throw the whole game. It was infuriating
Speaker 1: that they ran the ball like crazy at the end.
Speaker 1: They ended up running the ball more than they threw.
Speaker 1: That's the only reason they lost. And he fits fitting
Speaker 1: balls into pretty tight windows. I just don't think you
Speaker 1: can play too much better than he's played so far.
Speaker 1: I admire the purity of your list that you would
Speaker 1: actually put Philip Rivers over Drew Brees just based on
Speaker 1: what's happened this year and totally wash out what's happened
Speaker 1: in the past that well, And I think that's people
Speaker 1: are gonna look at this. They're gonna bounce as soon
Speaker 1: as they see Rivers ranked three at anything. But you
Speaker 1: you you made it basically on what you've seen from
Speaker 1: the start of the season. I set it up. I
Speaker 1: set it up. I watched the Titans Chargers game yesterday
Speaker 1: and he is a completely different dude than he was
Speaker 1: the last two years. And for me, just as a
Speaker 1: like from an angle of a guy that was so
Speaker 1: trashed over the last two seasons. He's never He's always
Speaker 1: been a tough quarterback. He's never been a guy that's
Speaker 1: made excuses. I like to see him return to form
Speaker 1: to some degree, and I don't think it's a sham.
Speaker 1: I think he's well coached the season. It was a
Speaker 1: ranking of who i'd want the rest of the season
Speaker 1: or prediction of how it all. Will he stay at
Speaker 1: this level? I don't know that'll be That'll be pretty tough.
Speaker 1: The list would look pretty different, but I knew this
Speaker 1: would maybe get some criticism, so I did I do
Speaker 1: check kind of the advanced metrics sites after I put
Speaker 1: it together. You know, ESPN, s QB, R, Football Outsiders,
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus, they all had Rivers number two actually
Speaker 1: in the league courting of the their metrics, and usually
Speaker 1: there's a huge disparity. So it was interesting in the
Speaker 1: all ad Manning one Rivers too. He's been great. What
Speaker 1: quarterbacks have surprised you guys the most this year? I
Speaker 1: want to say, you have this guy listed in your
Speaker 1: same level. If it wasn't for one play at the
Speaker 1: end of Week one and basically one play at the
Speaker 1: end of what week three, Matt Ryan would be behind
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning on everyone's m v P list, and it's
Speaker 1: amazing considering he's doing it basically with only Julio Jones.
Speaker 1: His offensive line is much worse this year. Roddy Whites
Speaker 1: had the high ankle sprain. Gonzalez has basically disappeared. Whether
Speaker 1: it's because he's a step slower or is because he's
Speaker 1: staying in the block too much to help out on
Speaker 1: the line, I'm not sure. But Ryan is doing this
Speaker 1: on his own in his metch his stats are the
Speaker 1: exact same as last year when he had all of
Speaker 1: that going for him. I think he just deserves a
Speaker 1: little bit of praise there for how well he's playing.
Speaker 1: That's why you can't look at one one loss. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think he's played better than he did a year ago,
Speaker 1: and there one and two while the team around on
Speaker 1: him is crumbling, he's being asked to do more. I
Speaker 1: think for me, you know, not all surprises are good
Speaker 1: and uh for me, Cam Newton, I just uh, I'm
Speaker 1: not quite sure. I'm starting to question what the future
Speaker 1: of Cam Newton and Carolina is. To some degree, I
Speaker 1: understand and I think that I think from the outside it's, oh,
Speaker 1: you're right. He played his best game, but Carolina scrapped
Speaker 1: everything they planned to do with him over the off
Speaker 1: season and went back to what he was last year,
Speaker 1: which was a running quarterback. And I think the concern,
Speaker 1: based on you know, what Gutelman said in the off
Speaker 1: season a little bit, is we don't want to running quarterback.
Speaker 1: We want to find out if Cam Newton, like the
Speaker 1: rest of your pure drop pack quarterbacks, can be that guy.
Speaker 1: And and I could see he's one of the most
Speaker 1: skilled athletic quarterbacks in all of football and in ages.
Speaker 1: But when they've asked him like they did in the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, just just to make those throws,
Speaker 1: having watched all three Panthers game, he can't do it.
Speaker 1: I I still think the Panthers don't have a Cam
Speaker 1: Newton problem. They I think they have a Ron Rivera
Speaker 1: problem and be a personnel problem. And I think he's
Speaker 1: gonna if they stink again this year, he's gonna get barried.
Speaker 1: Newton and he'll still be with the team next year,
Speaker 1: but it will be you know, the referendum will be
Speaker 1: out that this could be the end for Newton. Carolina
Speaker 1: next year. Um, but I still think that's unfair. I mean,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a real team around him. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, it's good. It's good what we're seeing from
Speaker 1: D'Angelo Williams at running back, and you know he should
Speaker 1: be getting the ball more. That helps out offense. But
Speaker 1: you know, he was able to complete passes Newton against
Speaker 1: the Giants team that is in utter chaos right now,
Speaker 1: but he's still throwing to a bunch of Arena Football
Speaker 1: League players. I have no issue with the idea. Of
Speaker 1: course he's can be there next year, but in terms
Speaker 1: of building a team around a guy for the next
Speaker 1: six seven years, he is not a complete quarterback in
Speaker 1: terms of his passing game. From what I've seen, I
Speaker 1: just don't think he is. But it's hard to find
Speaker 1: a quarterback. It's hard he had a quarterback, and even
Speaker 1: at this level that he's at, which is a little
Speaker 1: up and down, he's better than half the league. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying he surprises me because I wanted to see more.
Speaker 1: At this stage. What we'll be telling is who is
Speaker 1: his who they bring in as his next offensive coach?
Speaker 1: Because I agree with you, we're already fired. Mike seula
Speaker 1: I think, well, to Dan's point, Newton's gonna be there
Speaker 1: longer than this coaching staff, right, And to your point,
Speaker 1: Gettleman comes from the Ernie of Corsi school, the classical
Speaker 1: prototype drop back quarterback, not this new school where and
Speaker 1: just reading the tea leaves, I think you're right. They
Speaker 1: don't want Cam Newton running that much. They don't want
Speaker 1: they don't want to rely on the run option. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what's crazy? In that game they won thirty
Speaker 1: eight nothing. He missed six or seven throws by ten yards,
Speaker 1: and he did that in week two, and he did
Speaker 1: that in week one. It happens. I mean, he's not
Speaker 1: an accurate quarterback. I don't know if that's something you
Speaker 1: can He's a lot like Josh Freeman. But when he
Speaker 1: throws it pretty, it's pretty. Um. One thing, guy, I
Speaker 1: want to bring up about the quarter All right, let
Speaker 1: me lay something out for you fellas, and maybe we
Speaker 1: can go around and you can each give me your opinion.
Speaker 1: If you had to pick between this list of quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: who would you have as your quarterback? Terrell prior Geno Smith,
Speaker 1: E j Manuel. You have three weeks of game tape
Speaker 1: tape to look at uh for each of them. This
Speaker 1: is for forever or for this week? Uh, for the
Speaker 1: balance of the two thousand season. No, forever. Give me EJ.
Speaker 1: Manuel why. I think he's the best all around player
Speaker 1: in that group. I think he's coached the best. We
Speaker 1: get their coaching staff to. No, it's your own coaching
Speaker 1: staff and you are the brainchild behind it. Mark can
Speaker 1: be your GM. He's really good at picking the player.
Speaker 1: He's making the leap, he's on fire. All these guys
Speaker 1: have been fantastic. But I guess West is making the
Speaker 1: major decision that I would make as a front office guy.
Speaker 1: So all right, e J. Annual. The two most physically
Speaker 1: gifted of those three are EJ. Manual and Thrill Prior.
Speaker 1: Manual is a better passer than Prior. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: as much fundamentals to work on his Prior, so I'll
Speaker 1: take him Mark. It's an interesting trio, for sure, it is.
Speaker 1: That's why I brought it up, Thank you, D. I
Speaker 1: would go Manual as well. If I'm going to center
Speaker 1: an organization around one of those three guys, e J.
Speaker 1: I will let me just say this before we get
Speaker 1: to Greg. Is Manual have that great game in Week
Speaker 1: two or the game winning drive. The Jets defense, which
Speaker 1: we know is actually pretty good, gave him the yips.
Speaker 1: He he was not He never got comfortable and he
Speaker 1: made a lot of bad passes and he took eight sacks.
Speaker 1: So I just I just want to throw that. Well,
Speaker 1: he's faced. I think New England is an underrated defense.
Speaker 1: He then played Caroline and the Jets, two of the
Speaker 1: better front sevens and football, so you're right, he's had
Speaker 1: a tough out of the gate situation in terms of
Speaker 1: who he's played. Well after a couple of games, that's tough.
Speaker 1: I would take EJ. Manuel too, because I liked him
Speaker 1: better coming out than you know Smith, and there's nothing
Speaker 1: that would change my mind. Tarrell Prior is exciting, and
Speaker 1: I think he can be better than we ever imagine.
Speaker 1: I think he already is. I mean I was thinking
Speaker 1: that watching the other night man. I never thought Tarrell
Speaker 1: Prior to be starting Monday night football games and looking
Speaker 1: halfway decent, and he's doing it. I mean, he's exciting.
Speaker 1: But I think Manuel has more going for him than
Speaker 1: Gino Smith at least. I think that can make up special.
Speaker 1: What about uh, come on, we know, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: you know what I'm a little excited about Geno Smith
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, maybe it's because of my leanings as
Speaker 1: a fan, but he's gonna make mistakes. We knew this.
Speaker 1: I still think they brought him on too early. I
Speaker 1: thought he should have been should have been eased into
Speaker 1: the mix. But the guy can make some throws and
Speaker 1: and that in that game to beat the Bills. Um,
Speaker 1: that was a throw, the throw that won the game.
Speaker 1: Everything was falling apart. They were up twenty six and
Speaker 1: the Jets they commit twenty penalties in the game. There
Speaker 1: it's now game. Smith hangs in the pocket and delivers
Speaker 1: a perfect strike to Santonio Holmes to win that game.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the game, there was even a better pass
Speaker 1: where he pressure right in his face, took a nasty
Speaker 1: shot and put one right on the money to Stephen Hill,
Speaker 1: who miraculously caught the ball and read it in for
Speaker 1: another long touchdown. The guy's got a much better arm
Speaker 1: the Jets fans are accustomed to with Sanchez, and uh,
Speaker 1: he hangs in the pocket and if he can just
Speaker 1: get over some of these other typical rookie issues such
Speaker 1: as awareness issues and uh, you know, throwing the ball
Speaker 1: when he shouldn't. He has a chance. He has a
Speaker 1: chance here. I'm I'm surprised a little bit that he's
Speaker 1: looked as good as he has through three weeks, which
Speaker 1: hasn't been great admittedly, but he's shown things. I don't
Speaker 1: want to kill the child in the man here, but
Speaker 1: every fan of every team, every fan of every team
Speaker 1: with a young quarterback who flashes on occasion, says the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. Look at this one throw he made.
Speaker 1: I said, to alright, have to be I don't think
Speaker 1: Texans fans were ever that excited about match shop Oh
Speaker 1: Bill's bills always seems did this with j P Lassmen,
Speaker 1: Redskins fans, did it with Patrick Ramsey. Well, this is
Speaker 1: present with Josh Freeman, isn't Freeman? Example Sean King? And
Speaker 1: now you've brought up all three two lane starting quarterbacks
Speaker 1: that Dane. There was also once a time, once upon
Speaker 1: a time last fall, where Seahawks fans got excited about
Speaker 1: Russell Wilson Touche. Listen from a Jets fan perspective, I
Speaker 1: think Gino Smith has brought so much more life to
Speaker 1: that offense than what they had under Stanchez. And it's
Speaker 1: not a to pick Manual's not a knock on Gino,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's it maybe not a coincidence that
Speaker 1: some of the wide receivers are starting to play better.
Speaker 1: They got a quarterback that isn't scared to push the
Speaker 1: ball downfield and get it to him, and and the
Speaker 1: Jets that have done everything you could do wrong and
Speaker 1: handling a quarterback situation over the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: I think they might have got this right, gotten this
Speaker 1: right ultimately, because you know, you have a guy that
Speaker 1: you're trying to build around and he's making place. We'll
Speaker 1: be with you when that probably doesn't happen. We'll be
Speaker 1: with you, I know, just I'll be there to light
Speaker 1: the tires on fire. Listen. We're ready for this. Jets
Speaker 1: fans are always ready for the other year. Can we
Speaker 1: talk about one more quarterback before we move? So r
Speaker 1: G three? You know, I think I feel like Redskins fans.
Speaker 1: After the first week and even after the second week,
Speaker 1: there came a point where where there was this desperation
Speaker 1: cry of are we ever going to see the guy
Speaker 1: we saw last year? I guess he ruined for good.
Speaker 1: He's not passing well, he's passing off the wrong foot,
Speaker 1: he's not moving well. I think this week. For the
Speaker 1: first time in Week three, when I watched him, I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's coming back. He's on his way back. He made
Speaker 1: major strides. He's not who he was. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: he has that athletic arrogance yet where he thinks he
Speaker 1: can get out of the pocket. That slide he did
Speaker 1: with two feet with embarrassing. There are some rough edges
Speaker 1: to him still, but I feel like within a month
Speaker 1: or two we're going to see the the RG three
Speaker 1: we saw last year. There was a play against the
Speaker 1: Lions where he basically there's nothing downfield and he just
Speaker 1: had to put that ball in a run. He basically
Speaker 1: ran out of bounds, caught a couple of yards. He
Speaker 1: looked comfortable for the first time I've seen him. Just
Speaker 1: have to make a decision, react quickly. And I think
Speaker 1: part of it is you haven't played, you have no preseason.
Speaker 1: It's reaction time, it's decision making. He does. He did
Speaker 1: look improved to me too. Well. It's funny. All week
Speaker 1: all we heard is are they gonna run more? They're
Speaker 1: gonna run more read option pistol, and they did a
Speaker 1: ton and it was pretty effective. And they threw the
Speaker 1: ball down the field, which they hadn't really done in
Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks. I agree. I think he's
Speaker 1: steadily gotten better. The Week two game he made some
Speaker 1: throws too, And after watching that game, I think you
Speaker 1: have to feel pretty good that he's going to be
Speaker 1: close to where he was soon. And if you're a
Speaker 1: depressed Redskins fan, I guess one thing you could perhaps
Speaker 1: take out of these first three weeks is that expectations
Speaker 1: are now maybe properly calibrated, where you have this guy
Speaker 1: coming off a major surgery and it's not gonna happen instantly,
Speaker 1: and now you you know, you can now go into
Speaker 1: the rest of the season understanding that it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be like last year. It's gonna take some time. That's
Speaker 1: all I can give you Redskins spins. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: don't know about the expectations for this team being properly calibrated.
Speaker 1: I think Redskins fans, including some downstairs, had convinced themselves
Speaker 1: this was a good team. I don't think it was
Speaker 1: ever that good a team. I think it was just
Speaker 1: r G three, a good scheme and Alfred Morris and
Speaker 1: that's about it. And now that's being exposed. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's move on to week four. How about that we're
Speaker 1: already in week four. Now it's kind of weird. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be an old man soon. Prediction next week Week five? Wow,
Speaker 1: let's not get ahead of the Week four kicks off
Speaker 1: on Thursday night the suddenly struggling San Francisco for the
Speaker 1: diners heading to St. Louis. I believe West, cause I
Speaker 1: know you love this. I believe it is the Edward
Speaker 1: James Dome to take on the Rams. Uh. This is
Speaker 1: obviously a a pretty interesting game of NFC West teams
Speaker 1: both needing to win pretty bad. What do you guys
Speaker 1: think about this? I would just like to say, Edward
Speaker 1: James is a human being, or was a human being.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who he is. But the stadium was
Speaker 1: named after him a reason, for a reason. He didn't
Speaker 1: have to purchase it, So I care about that. Well,
Speaker 1: actually it actually it's Edward Jones. Edward Jones is like
Speaker 1: and I think that is a corporation's financial It's like
Speaker 1: it's a four oh one k outfide. He probably he
Speaker 1: could probably Edward. If we don't like you, can we
Speaker 1: call it the Edward or Murrow Doom we cannot, unfortunately
Speaker 1: without facing litigation. Here are two other young quarterbacks. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the quarterbacks struggling. What what do we think
Speaker 1: of Kaepernick's struggles the last couple of weeks? Well, you
Speaker 1: wrote about this. Let me flip the question back to you.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with the San Francisco I know what I think.
Speaker 1: I don't care about that. Um well, I think they
Speaker 1: can't get open against man coverage, so that's a problem.
Speaker 1: They're stack in the box. They still ran the ball
Speaker 1: okay last week. Their teams are they're not using the
Speaker 1: read option much, but when they do, they're defending it
Speaker 1: much better. One thing I noticed. You know, if if
Speaker 1: r G three was caught like Kaepernick was on runs,
Speaker 1: people would be saying, oh, he doesn't look good. I
Speaker 1: mean there are some good angles taken, and the Colts
Speaker 1: defenders really stopping Kaepernick and reading the plays very well.
Speaker 1: He's missed more throws than we're used to. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot that's wrong with this team right now.
Speaker 1: They're they're missing their best players. The defense isn't really
Speaker 1: that big a difference maker anymore. Don't you think that
Speaker 1: the league as a whole is defending the read option
Speaker 1: much better. Yeah, yes, I do. You see a lot
Speaker 1: of the linebackers kind of coming in behind. They let
Speaker 1: the defensive end crashed down and then the linebacker comes
Speaker 1: and stops it. It hasn't been that big a factor
Speaker 1: this season. I agree. Well, there was actually a play
Speaker 1: that Patrick showed me where uh it was the Panthers
Speaker 1: Giants where they rolled out essentially like a triple option
Speaker 1: and JPP and remember that Giants Redskins game from a
Speaker 1: year ago where the Giants on national television were just
Speaker 1: embarrassed against read option coming out of the pistol and stuff.
Speaker 1: They actually defended. JPP defended this play perfectly. He he
Speaker 1: reacted quickly, looked at the runner, he looked at the passer,
Speaker 1: made a good decision. Carolina still had some success, but
Speaker 1: it was like a completely different situation on defense. They've
Speaker 1: obviously they've caught up to some degree. And may I
Speaker 1: remind you guys of we were talking about the Thursday
Speaker 1: night game. Yes, may I remind you guys of this
Speaker 1: SoundBite Kenya Heck, yeah, you can't San Francisco four today.
Speaker 1: We can do whatever we want. That was on August
Speaker 1: that Harbor said that I remember, I believe it was
Speaker 1: me that said pride comes before the fall. And I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what, there are some signs here that this
Speaker 1: season could come apart. It's all out there now. You
Speaker 1: have injuries all over the rosters, Greg wrote in his post,
Speaker 1: and not only injuries, but injuries the star players. You
Speaker 1: have possible dissension. Frank Gore denied it, but they were.
Speaker 1: He had some words for hardball. You have these losses,
Speaker 1: you have Kaepernick not playing well. Hold on, could happen?
Speaker 1: Pride comes before the fall? All right? Last year? What
Speaker 1: the Patriots were one and two went on to the
Speaker 1: championship game. The Broncos. I think we're two and three
Speaker 1: before they rattled off the rest of their wins. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's week four game. Would you argue that if
Speaker 1: they go to one in three in the division, this
Speaker 1: is a must win game for them, because if they
Speaker 1: go one one in three and you've got Seattle taking off,
Speaker 1: that's ugly. But I do think they're going to take
Speaker 1: care of business. I have a feeling, that's all you're
Speaker 1: allowed to have feelings. Things fall apart. The center cannot hold.
Speaker 1: They have given up more rushing yards in consecutive games
Speaker 1: than any Niners team since Dennis Ericsson was the coach
Speaker 1: of an ugly, ugly two and fourteen squad which had
Speaker 1: the worst offense of my lifetime. Uh and you know
Speaker 1: I did. The defense isn't really doing that well. The
Speaker 1: Rams don't have kind of a rushing game to stop them.
Speaker 1: We expected this Rams defense to be good, but it
Speaker 1: really hasn't been. I mean, Courtland Finnigan's getting burned. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happened to him in that secondary? Do
Speaker 1: we do? We like the forty Niners to bounce back.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Rams gave them a lot of trouble
Speaker 1: last year. They beat him and they item. The only
Speaker 1: thing that Rams defense is doing well right now is
Speaker 1: rushing the passer. They are getting fried in the secondary
Speaker 1: and DeMarco Murray was running through huge holes last week
Speaker 1: and it was it was weird like the Rams defensive
Speaker 1: line wasn't getting blown off the ball. They just couldn't
Speaker 1: get off blocks. That will be one thing to watch also,
Speaker 1: is you know you had the frank or he only
Speaker 1: had He only had twelveth carries I believe last week,
Speaker 1: So you know, San Francisco was gonna want to get
Speaker 1: him the ball early and often. And the Rams who
Speaker 1: got destroyed by DeMarco last week, we'll see how they
Speaker 1: bounced back. I think that will be a major factor
Speaker 1: in this game. I think you could also see in
Speaker 1: that game, DeMarco Murray's holes were huge because they were
Speaker 1: so worried about Dez Bryant, Right, And you're not worried
Speaker 1: about anyone. You're not worried about an Kin Bolden. You're
Speaker 1: certainly not worried about Kyle Williams. Is Their number two
Speaker 1: receiver is eighty seven yards. Their number three wide receiver
Speaker 1: on the year in terms of production is Marlon Moore
Speaker 1: with one catch in six yards. You know, the Niners
Speaker 1: have had to play Green Bay in Seattle, possibly in
Speaker 1: NF the title game situation right there, and a Cults
Speaker 1: team that frankly showed up and and played a much
Speaker 1: more physical football than we would have thought they would
Speaker 1: and is also potentially a playoff team. Tough schedule of
Speaker 1: the game. What I'm disappointed in on the ramp side
Speaker 1: is I think we we were sold this message that
Speaker 1: this offense is gonna be laden with so many weapons.
Speaker 1: We're gonna put all these guys in space and no
Speaker 1: one's gonna know what to do. It's really depressing watching
Speaker 1: what's happened with this group of wide receivers. Uh Tavon
Speaker 1: Austin number one, I'll start right there. They seem they
Speaker 1: seem to have no idea how to get him open
Speaker 1: downfield beyond five or six yards. You know, he's a
Speaker 1: return guy at this point that is going to get
Speaker 1: you about thirty yards a game from the slot. I'm wondering,
Speaker 1: is this a game that will change that? I just
Speaker 1: I just kind of stopped waiting in Brian Schottenheimer where
Speaker 1: you know that I don't, but I think honestly he is.
Speaker 1: You talk about when what teams are gonna need to
Speaker 1: reassess who's run in their offenses. Schottenheimer is working himself
Speaker 1: into a bad corner here. Well, let me ask you this.
Speaker 1: Are they also going to have to reassess Sam Bradford,
Speaker 1: who just hasn't gotten any better since his rookie year.
Speaker 1: I think he's right in the middle of it. He's
Speaker 1: not a difference maker at quarterback. He checked down the
Speaker 1: whole game last week. I remember I was doing a
Speaker 1: radio thing in St. Louis this summer and there the
Speaker 1: big storyline there, it's it's the make or break gear
Speaker 1: for Sam Bradford. My answer was, I don't think it is,
Speaker 1: because the most likely scenario is he's just kind of
Speaker 1: a little better than last year. And then what do
Speaker 1: you do because you kind of you don't really have
Speaker 1: a top tier quarterback. You just have a guy that
Speaker 1: that you think should be the number one quarterback but
Speaker 1: doesn't really look like a number one court Why don't we, yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't we open this up a little bit? Why
Speaker 1: don't we get the ball to Chris Gibbons downfield? Why
Speaker 1: don't we design some plays to get this explosive Tavon
Speaker 1: Austin going there should be there, They should be able
Speaker 1: to be making plays. Cook, you have Jared Cook there chown.
Speaker 1: We're giving a lot of credit to them for Jared
Speaker 1: Cook's week one and then he disappeared the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. I would say this, if you have Game
Speaker 1: rewind real quick and you had that search function, go
Speaker 1: look at their game from last weekends the Cowboys type
Speaker 1: in t Period Austin and look at his receptions and
Speaker 1: and not what he did after the catch, because the
Speaker 1: Cowboys were all over him. Look at the routes he
Speaker 1: ran and look what Bradford did with it. That's the
Speaker 1: problem with their offense, not just with Austin, but what
Speaker 1: we're doing with all their supposed weapons are not being
Speaker 1: used correctly. Not to get too hung up on Austin,
Speaker 1: one thing I will say is, you know we were
Speaker 1: told we were sold anyway that Austin was get the
Speaker 1: ball in his hands and everything else is you know,
Speaker 1: taking care of there. You know, he had six catches
Speaker 1: this past Sunday and he averaged five yards at reception,
Speaker 1: so you know, maybe he's not where Guys like Austin
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of guys like this in
Speaker 1: the NFL, Chris Johnson, you have to get them the
Speaker 1: ball in space because they have no power whatsoever. They're
Speaker 1: not gonna run anybody over. You have to create manufacture
Speaker 1: the space for them to thrive in. He's catching the
Speaker 1: ball and the tackler is already there. So that's why
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a couple of plays they threw
Speaker 1: it to him behind the line of scrimmage and the
Speaker 1: tacklers just there. There's not there's not much you can do. Okay,
Speaker 1: why don't we go around and pick this game and
Speaker 1: then get out of here. Greg, who do you got?
Speaker 1: I am taking the Niners on the road. Didn't beat
Speaker 1: the Rams last year, but I just still believe in
Speaker 1: this team enough that they're not going to go to
Speaker 1: one in three. I picked the Rams as a wild
Speaker 1: card team, and I'm starting to wonder if that was
Speaker 1: an ill choice. I'm going Niners. I picked the forty
Speaker 1: Niners because I don't like anything I've seen from the
Speaker 1: Rams in the last two weeks. They've been down twenty
Speaker 1: four and nothing two weeks in a row, and I'm
Speaker 1: I'm the kind of guy who falls for it when
Speaker 1: r When Harbow says I'm looking forward to taking on
Speaker 1: adversity and whipping it, I will take the Rams. I
Speaker 1: think that this is a short week, they're at home,
Speaker 1: They're catching the Niners at a great time. I just
Speaker 1: have a feeling about this, and I also hopefully Patrick
Speaker 1: doesn't agree because this would be a potential hero pick
Speaker 1: for me, which I have to so far this season,
Speaker 1: which is almost my total from last season. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go. I'm gonna I'm gonna say that winners will
Speaker 1: continue to struggle um and the Rams will take it. Hey,
Speaker 1: when you got Isaiah Pte running the ball? Why not?
Speaker 1: The sun is shining? Um all right, everybody? So that
Speaker 1: is That is it for today's podcast. We'll be back
Speaker 1: on Friday. We will go over all of the week.
Speaker 1: Four picks. Um? What else? Oh, we have a special guest.
Speaker 1: Should we say who it is? People know? Okay, it's
Speaker 1: a special guest and it's gonna from another country, from
Speaker 1: another hemisphere. Bro, Wait, is that true? True story? It's
Speaker 1: not a different hemisphere. What do you mean? It's the
Speaker 1: same hemisphere. That's the Western hemisphere. It is a different country.
Speaker 1: Though Dan just had his like Dan Quail moment. That's great.
Speaker 1: I would say take it out, but I deserve punish,
Speaker 1: all right, whatevery guys. You guys are so smart. Jerk's
Speaker 1: um all right, So we yeah, we will have someone
Speaker 1: in the same hemisphere as us, but it's a different
Speaker 1: time zone. That is correct. Um, okay, until until then,
Speaker 1: signing off for the Mailman, the Sizzler, the Boss, Cambridge
Speaker 1: behind the glass, and Lyle the intern. We will see
Speaker 1: you on Frontly. I want to be able to live
Speaker 1: and also want to be able to eat it. We
Speaker 1: can work and eat pants. Get Gregg's wife involved. Let's
Speaker 1: make a little three course meal. We'll haven't marinated. Mal,
Speaker 1: I'm actually pulling for the Raiders. I feel like your
Speaker 1: wife could do Wonders with the really broil. Boil the
Speaker 1: zipper a lot, because that's gonna be tough to z