Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top
Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we are halfway through March,
Speaker 1: which means we're halfway through Women's History Month, which also
Speaker 1: means carolinea for the purposes of this podcast, we're halfway
Speaker 1: through change Makers. That's right. This has been an incredible
Speaker 1: series that I've personally been enjoying and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of our listeners have been enjoying too. We've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about motivation and changing the world, and today
Speaker 1: will be no different. Yeah. So this whole change Maker
Speaker 1: series that we've been airing as bonus episodes every Friday
Speaker 1: in March all relates back to the women that we're
Speaker 1: talking to today. Because, as we've talked about in previous
Speaker 1: intros to our change Maker's episodes, the first one with
Speaker 1: domestic worker organizer i gam Poo and then with soccer
Speaker 1: superstar Abby Wambach, we've talked about how this whole thing
Speaker 1: was inspired by going to a women's empowerment conference hosted
Speaker 1: by Makers, which is an a o L platform and
Speaker 1: is the largest video archive of women's stories. And while
Speaker 1: we've also noted that Gloria Sinum is kind of the
Speaker 1: godmother and the central inspiration, but it was really this
Speaker 1: filmmaker Dylan McGee who made the whole thing happen, right,
Speaker 1: And so today we're talking with Dylan and also her
Speaker 1: creative director partner Sammy Leevivitz about the importance of telling
Speaker 1: women's stories, why this storytelling is critical really to our girls,
Speaker 1: but to all of us at large. So for that reason,
Speaker 1: today's theme is see It to Be It and I
Speaker 1: love it because it's something that has resonated throughout so
Speaker 1: many stuff Mo've Never told you episodes, particularly talking about
Speaker 1: women in underrepresented fields like the stem fields, where visibility
Speaker 1: matters so much, to be able to see people who
Speaker 1: look like you doing incredible things, whether they are publicly
Speaker 1: recognized or not. Yeah, we've so much of our research
Speaker 1: has shown over the course of doing the podcast that
Speaker 1: once you introduce the idea, whether it's being an artist
Speaker 1: or an astronaut two girls, that helps them so much
Speaker 1: to envision themselves in those roles or even bigger, better
Speaker 1: roles that they might not have even thought about before,
Speaker 1: like being an art astronaut. Right, an artist astronaut? Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: painting in space. That's my dream, even though it is
Speaker 1: now because I've never thought of it before, and now
Speaker 1: that you're telling me the story, I have to be it.
Speaker 1: There you go. Well, I feel like Makers is really
Speaker 1: providing a needed resource in terms of this visibility because
Speaker 1: you know, as we've talked about many times, it's a
Speaker 1: docuseries essentially, which is showcasing the trailblazing biographies of as
Speaker 1: of this recording, like more than two hundred incredible women
Speaker 1: from all sorts of backgrounds, doing all sorts of things.
Speaker 1: Um And they've done series focused on women in comedy, Hollywood, Space,
Speaker 1: Caroline Base, there you Go, astronauts, but also women in war, business, politics.
Speaker 1: They've even expanded to uh Canada and to China. Um
Speaker 1: and for a real big dose of Makers, there was
Speaker 1: an entire six part series that aired on PBS, which
Speaker 1: is fantastic if you haven't seen it. Yeah, and Makers,
Speaker 1: this magical, wonderful, inspirational series is the brainchild of filmmaker
Speaker 1: Dylan McGee. She's an Emmy Award winning executive producer at
Speaker 1: Coon Heart McGee Productions, and her creative partner Samantha Lebovitz,
Speaker 1: who runs Makers as the senior producer and creative director.
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, um, I kind of
Speaker 1: want I know she's a busy lady, but like, I
Speaker 1: kind of want Dylan around me all the time because
Speaker 1: her enthusiasm and her passion are both so infectious. This
Speaker 1: is a woman who just has this incredible vision and
Speaker 1: and knack for telling women's stories. Yeah. And so we
Speaker 1: sat down with Dylan and Sammy at the Maker's Conference
Speaker 1: and the first thing we wanted to know was a
Speaker 1: what they did, but more importantly why So let's hear
Speaker 1: from Dylan McGee and Sammy Lee Bowitz. I'm Dylan Magee.
Speaker 1: I'm the founder and executive producer of Makers, and I
Speaker 1: have a mission to capture every woman's story because there's
Speaker 1: a void and there aren't enough stories and we need
Speaker 1: to fill it. I am Smith Leibovi. It's irun Makers
Speaker 1: for a o L Vice President, credibjector and feedbacking on
Speaker 1: Dylan's mission. I want to spread those stories to girls
Speaker 1: in every single corner of the world. And telling these
Speaker 1: stories sort of fits in with what Dylan said was
Speaker 1: a moment for women. She says, maybe it's just my
Speaker 1: own personal awaking, but there is something in the air
Speaker 1: these days, a new focus on women's issues. There seems
Speaker 1: to be a movement brewing, and I hope that Makers
Speaker 1: plays an important role in it. And if we look
Speaker 1: at the background of how Makers even happened though, it
Speaker 1: I think corroborates what McGee is saying in terms of
Speaker 1: something being in the air. So it started way back
Speaker 1: when in two thousand five, the olden days Um when
Speaker 1: McGhee wanted to make a documentary on Glorious Sinum, which
Speaker 1: is a fantastic idea. Of course, of course you would
Speaker 1: want to do that, and Glow said, no, yeah, she
Speaker 1: wasn't interested. She told Dylan McGee to broaden her scope
Speaker 1: and include more women's voices, more women who are out
Speaker 1: there doing incredible things for the movement. And you know,
Speaker 1: Mege said that she thought, well, it's surely this has
Speaker 1: been done, Like I'm disappointed Gloria won't sit down and
Speaker 1: do this big documentary with me um, Like surely other
Speaker 1: people have done some sort of series on women's voices. No, no,
Speaker 1: they hadn't. And one thing that she said in uh
Speaker 1: an interview with her that is on Makers dot Com
Speaker 1: was how private a lot of these stories are so
Speaker 1: she said quote. As filmmakers, the thing we found most
Speaker 1: surprising and intriguing about this story is that it's so
Speaker 1: vast and also so private, because it includes not only
Speaker 1: the story of feminism and the political change taking place
Speaker 1: for women over the past fifty years, but also the
Speaker 1: personal stories happening behind the scenes of women fighting for
Speaker 1: equality in the workplace and at home. And I'll tell you, Caroline,
Speaker 1: reading that quote, it reminds me of so many of
Speaker 1: the stuff Mo've never told you letters that we get.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole other piece of this entire show,
Speaker 1: not just this mini series, but this whole Sminty universe,
Speaker 1: where you and I talk about a lot of these
Speaker 1: front facing issues and the political changes that are still
Speaker 1: happening for women, and then we hear from men and
Speaker 1: women alike about how that personally affects them. And so often,
Speaker 1: I mean, those stories are so private, we don't talk
Speaker 1: about them very often. Yeah, And it's not only those
Speaker 1: private stories things that are going on behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: how these big either global national issues are affecting people's
Speaker 1: lives on a small scale. But it's also that sort
Speaker 1: of pulling back the curtain on how people got where
Speaker 1: they are, you know, Kristen and I, we we try
Speaker 1: to tell you how the heroines that we discuss in
Speaker 1: our in our podcasts, how they got where they where
Speaker 1: they're going, whether it's a mentor whether it's just pulling
Speaker 1: themselves up by their bootstraps. And um, I think Dylan
Speaker 1: and Sammy too are are trying to do that as well,
Speaker 1: to showcase how these large issues are affecting people, but
Speaker 1: also just how they did it, how they succeeded well.
Speaker 1: And speaking of that, Caroline, we should back up for
Speaker 1: a minute and talk about how McGee got to where
Speaker 1: she is, because you know, she spends so much time
Speaker 1: telling other people's stories in such beautiful and profound ways,
Speaker 1: but she has such an important story that we can
Speaker 1: learn from as well. Because initially she wanted to be
Speaker 1: the next Katie Kuric. That Today Show was all the rage,
Speaker 1: and she even landed an internship offer from them, but
Speaker 1: I think it was a producer at the Today Show
Speaker 1: suggested that she go to a smaller documentary firm so
Speaker 1: that she could get more experience, which is how she
Speaker 1: ended up at Coon Heart And she told Teen Vogue,
Speaker 1: I don't remember who this woman was, but she completely
Speaker 1: shaped my career. I went in turned and fell in
Speaker 1: love with documentary filmmaking, and I became an accidental filmmaker
Speaker 1: for me. I started my career as an intern with
Speaker 1: a filmmaker named Peter Coonhart and I'm I mean one
Speaker 1: of the things also you think about girls today is
Speaker 1: they think you have to know what you want to do.
Speaker 1: I was clueless, I said, I just took the first
Speaker 1: job that came my way. I was like, okay, I'll
Speaker 1: in turn for a documentary film company, and then I
Speaker 1: fell in love with it and I just worked my
Speaker 1: way up and it was I think, honestly, I think
Speaker 1: it's passion that gets you further. Carla Harris today when
Speaker 1: she was on the stage, I think it was very
Speaker 1: interesting what she said. It's not like you just have
Speaker 1: to be good at your job. You have to be
Speaker 1: good at your job and take it to the next level.
Speaker 1: And Dylan and Sammy both hoped to use filmmaking and
Speaker 1: makers in particular to inspire that same kind of passion
Speaker 1: and younger female viewers. Again, this goes back to that
Speaker 1: unofficial maker's motto of if you can see it, you
Speaker 1: can be it. It's that visibility factor that we also
Speaker 1: try to emphasize. I mean, if you just take it
Speaker 1: to the school level, when kids are learning school and
Speaker 1: I've an eleven year old and a thirteen year old,
Speaker 1: and I look at what they're learning and it's still
Speaker 1: the old classics, all the you know, all the men,
Speaker 1: and I think we need to it's it's the classic
Speaker 1: you know, Glorious Side and Billy jan King, so many
Speaker 1: of our makers, excent if she can see it, she
Speaker 1: can be it. And we have to flood the marketplace
Speaker 1: with these stories so girls know that they can do it.
Speaker 1: Even though I think it feels more than fifty years
Speaker 1: ago like women can do it, it's still until you
Speaker 1: have that image in your head, and that that if
Speaker 1: there's an unconscious bias, the girls, even though they feel empowered,
Speaker 1: don't know unless they see it. And in addition to
Speaker 1: educating ourselves about our heritage, I would say, as women
Speaker 1: and all of the trailblazing that women passed and present
Speaker 1: have done and are continuing to do, and the ways
Speaker 1: that we can learn from them, see it to be
Speaker 1: it um to achieve our own definitions of success. One
Speaker 1: thing that Dylan talked to Teen Vogue about a while back.
Speaker 1: Is also the importance of young women or women of
Speaker 1: any age, anyone of any age, understanding how we really can,
Speaker 1: as she calls it, shape our own destiny. Um. She
Speaker 1: said that, I think it's so hard for women, especially
Speaker 1: to understand that you're in control. There's a sense that
Speaker 1: you're waiting for the next thing to come along. But
Speaker 1: you can shape your destiny, you can make things happen.
Speaker 1: You're in control of change. Yeah, you're in control of change.
Speaker 1: And there's really nothing too small on that path to
Speaker 1: making things happen. You know. It's it's really tempting to
Speaker 1: assume that we can never achieve these large goals of
Speaker 1: being astronaut artists for instance. Oh it's not too big, Caroline, right,
Speaker 1: because I mean, well the suits awfully bit. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta make room for all your paints, slama paints.
Speaker 1: And it's it's easy to assume that that we we
Speaker 1: just can't make it there. That's a great goal, it's
Speaker 1: a great dream. But you know, I'm my station in
Speaker 1: life feels too small, my skill set feels too small.
Speaker 1: Or maybe we just feel like we're spinning our wheels
Speaker 1: and we haven't made enough personal progress. We hear all
Speaker 1: of these trailblazers amazing achievements, whether it's in Makers or
Speaker 1: whether it's in those bio episodes that Kristen and I do.
Speaker 1: But it's important to hear, like we said, all of
Speaker 1: those little incremental steps and stumbles and victories that women
Speaker 1: experience along the way, and so showing those paths is
Speaker 1: really part of what Makers does so well, and it's
Speaker 1: reflected in how both Dylan and Sammy do discussed the
Speaker 1: shared passions of the women that they profile. But I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that if you look at
Speaker 1: all of our Makers, what they all have in common
Speaker 1: is they look good at something and they were encouraged
Speaker 1: to do it, and they stuck with it no matter what.
Speaker 1: So it's the view of a passion. It's following that
Speaker 1: passion through well. I was gonna add to that that
Speaker 1: there's also nothing too small. But I was just talking
Speaker 1: actually with Megan Smith that stage about how last night
Speaker 1: she's at the casting director who does something as simple
Speaker 1: as now she instead of writing, oh, background audience, she writes,
Speaker 1: make half the audience email like don't have a subway
Speaker 1: car shown with just white males, and actually just like
Speaker 1: literally write that in the script and things like that too,
Speaker 1: from what we've got on the stage yesterday, of don't
Speaker 1: have a stack of resumes there, and if there's no
Speaker 1: female candidates there, don't demand that there is one. There's
Speaker 1: no nothing too small that will help in fact change
Speaker 1: that way. It's a thing of our conference too. And
Speaker 1: what Sammy says about nothing being too small to help
Speaker 1: impact change applies to us too. It applies to anyone
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast right now, because there is such
Speaker 1: an importance of not belittling the personal and social change
Speaker 1: that we can all make ourselves, Because I mean, it
Speaker 1: is intimidating to have a goal of like I want
Speaker 1: to make history. I want to achieve gender equality and
Speaker 1: everything will be great for everyone. Yeah, that that feels lofty,
Speaker 1: but there are things that we can do every day
Speaker 1: to just live out what we do want to see.
Speaker 1: It's like the next step beyond see it, to be it.
Speaker 1: So it's funny we call it on our team the
Speaker 1: chair movers. I love that that there's no test too
Speaker 1: small mentality, and I think it's really important, especially when
Speaker 1: you look at what you read about the millennial generation.
Speaker 1: How can we prove that wrong? How can we be
Speaker 1: like Oh, I'm in this room, and like every single
Speaker 1: body in this room is here for a reason. Be
Speaker 1: a chair mover, Like, move the chair the charness we moved, UM,
Speaker 1: and nothing is beneath you that way. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a great way to people respect that and people
Speaker 1: recognize that, UM, and I think they I've seen the
Speaker 1: other people go far with that mentality, and so I
Speaker 1: mean talking about going far by starting small, I mean,
Speaker 1: once you get on that path, what do you do?
Speaker 1: How do you stick with it? How do you stay motivated? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely wanted to ask Dylan and Sammy about this
Speaker 1: because I mean, remember this started with an idea in
Speaker 1: two thousand five that is completely and totally different from
Speaker 1: the outcome. Now. There is a Gloria documentary that Dylan
Speaker 1: was finally able to produce this on HBO called Gloria's
Speaker 1: sinem in her own words, and I highly recommend you
Speaker 1: watch it because it's fantastic. But they have built this
Speaker 1: massive archive. They're still building this archive. They're constantly on
Speaker 1: the road going out to interview women and collect their
Speaker 1: stories and produce them, and then of course hosting this
Speaker 1: massive female empowerment conference that Caroline and I have been
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to attend. So for these women who seem
Speaker 1: to never ever stop, how do you keep that up?
Speaker 1: How do you keep that paced up? It's a great question,
Speaker 1: nas and day two of a conference. For me, I
Speaker 1: have an amazing husband and an amazing two kids, and
Speaker 1: my sequence of success isn't I've learned the word no.
Speaker 1: It's a good one to prioritize. And I used to
Speaker 1: be a yes woman, which I think was great. There's
Speaker 1: a time in your life when seeing yes to every
Speaker 1: opportunity is what you should do. And then I think
Speaker 1: you reach a point where you have to say yes
Speaker 1: and no. See. And I'm a different life situation than
Speaker 1: Dylan right now. I have a fiancee and we both
Speaker 1: you know, work pretty demanding twenty for hour jobs, and
Speaker 1: so we've talked a lot of like work life balance,
Speaker 1: and I don't love the idea of using the words
Speaker 1: work life balance, but I do think there's like creative time.
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I think that you know
Speaker 1: what they're are people like us. To keep going with
Speaker 1: what we're doing, you have to give your gifts peak
Speaker 1: step back. I appreciate what you have been doing and
Speaker 1: think about what it is next, and I give yourself
Speaker 1: that time alone to actually have that creative thinking it's
Speaker 1: easier to have been done, but making that happen. And
Speaker 1: I think that's all fabulous advice and um. In talking
Speaker 1: with Teen Vogue, Dylan also had a little bit of
Speaker 1: advice for her younger self, which we always love, advice
Speaker 1: that really successful, amazing women would give to their younger selves.
Speaker 1: It's like almost getting a peek inside some geniuses brain.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I feel like it's just advice
Speaker 1: directed at me, you know, like, oh yeah, oh that's
Speaker 1: me perfect. I'm not twelve. But I really appreciate this advice.
Speaker 1: And Dylan's told to you Vogue that she would tell herself, relax,
Speaker 1: you have to enjoy what you're doing and not be
Speaker 1: so afraid. When I was starting off in my career
Speaker 1: was during the Internet boom. People my age were millionaires,
Speaker 1: and here I was this poorly paid documentary associate producer,
Speaker 1: thinking I was and successful enough instead of just enjoying
Speaker 1: that I was doing incredible work. She goes on to say,
Speaker 1: don't judge yourself by your peers. Judge yourself by yourself
Speaker 1: and your own happiness. Oh, and that's such a great
Speaker 1: way of explaining how we all start where we're at.
Speaker 1: And that's totally okay, you know, because the more we
Speaker 1: compare ourselves to other people, of course some are frustrated,
Speaker 1: will be because we're always going to find someone who
Speaker 1: is richer, prettier, smarter, and more successful than we are.
Speaker 1: In Caroline, I'm looking at her right now. Yea, well,
Speaker 1: and well, I should probably take off the astronaut suit.
Speaker 1: It is pretty glamorous. Yeah, I mean it's really they're
Speaker 1: shiny bits to it. I can see how it's intimidating,
Speaker 1: But no, I like the idea of paying more heed
Speaker 1: to finding your center, finding what you're good at, what
Speaker 1: makes you happy, because you're never going to be as
Speaker 1: happy and successful doing what you think you should be doing,
Speaker 1: or doing what other people tell you should be doing,
Speaker 1: as you would be if you were just following your passion,
Speaker 1: following what is your natural skill set. And if you
Speaker 1: do catch yourself doing the negative comparison of looking for
Speaker 1: someone to kind of make you feel better judging other
Speaker 1: people's choices and decisions, that's a good time to recall
Speaker 1: Amy Poehler's motto, which we have adopted and repeated so
Speaker 1: many times now on stuff I've never told you, which
Speaker 1: is good for her, not for me. Essentially, you do you.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's takeaway, Yeah, you do you, but
Speaker 1: also cheer on the people around you well, and I
Speaker 1: feel massively cheered on by, you know, talking to these
Speaker 1: literal change makers doing so much work both in the
Speaker 1: environments and communities around them, but also at large. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've talked to Abby Wombach who has like the entire
Speaker 1: world as her platform, and of course workers Advocate I
Speaker 1: gen Poo, who just seems like she's going to save
Speaker 1: the world absolutely and paying attention to dignifying the kind
Speaker 1: of work that's so often overlooked in the same way
Speaker 1: that Dylan and Sammy are doing this important work of
Speaker 1: telling the stories that have been historically overlooked and encouraging
Speaker 1: women to speak out. So we hope you do speak out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we hope that as mini series has been inspiring
Speaker 1: and empowering for you to start on your path to
Speaker 1: change making as well. So with that, listeners, we want
Speaker 1: to hear from you what's on your minds. Mom Stuff
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot Com is our email address.
Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast or
Speaker 1: messages on Facebook, and as always, if you want to
Speaker 1: learn more about us, you can find all of our blogs, videos,
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