Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you from house to
Speaker 1: works not come hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline. I feel like I
Speaker 1: should be wearing my high tops and my favorite striped
Speaker 1: sweatshirt for this episode. Yeah, I should totally be in
Speaker 1: my Is it Athleta the brand? Yeah? Yes, I should
Speaker 1: be wearing my fancy athlete A sweatshirt. It's it's sweatshirt material.
Speaker 1: It's very soft, but it has like an asymmetrical front,
Speaker 1: so it's snazzy. I didn't realize. I went into athlete
Speaker 1: at one time looking for sports bras, and as I
Speaker 1: was walking around, I was like, whoa, they have clothes
Speaker 1: like that I can wear outside and not have it
Speaker 1: look like I'm just walking around in gym clothes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Athleta is a division of Gap, and They're clothes are
Speaker 1: becoming more successful than Gaps I know. Well as about leisure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: well Gap did just hire a new creative director. I
Speaker 1: think so maybe they'll come stage to come back perhaps,
Speaker 1: But can anything be as comfortable as that sweatshirt? I
Speaker 1: submit to you that it cannot. Yeah, I am wearing
Speaker 1: these pants that are kind of as close to yoga
Speaker 1: pants as I could get wearing to the office. They're
Speaker 1: like a thicker yoga pants, but I got a zip
Speaker 1: in the back, y'all a little stretch. Yeah, they also
Speaker 1: still feel slightly inappropriate for the office. But my gosh,
Speaker 1: all of this spandex is just so comfortable. It's like
Speaker 1: I'm not wearing pants at all, which is actually like
Speaker 1: my nightmare about I've had that dream about myself. Not
Speaker 1: you good good, Um. But we're talking about our high tops,
Speaker 1: which I do own, and I do love them. They're
Speaker 1: so warm. They're like ugs, but like better, you know,
Speaker 1: because they keep more socially acceptable a little bit at
Speaker 1: this point, Um, and all of our comfortable clothes because,
Speaker 1: as you probably guess from the title of this podcast episode,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the ath leisure trend because it's here
Speaker 1: to stay. And I argue that it says a lot
Speaker 1: about perhaps where we are workplace culture is and some
Speaker 1: some gender workplace and out of workplace culture. Wise, I
Speaker 1: would say that it says a lot about the fact
Speaker 1: that work life balance doesn't really it's not a thing anymore.
Speaker 1: People talk about work life balance from a very like
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties perspective, but in our changing economy, Kristen,
Speaker 1: especially as we get more fancy tech companies that let
Speaker 1: you bring your dog to work, that's not us by
Speaker 1: the way. Uh, there's really no line between life and
Speaker 1: work anymore. Yeah. And on the gendered side of it too,
Speaker 1: it it's really not dressing for a male gaze. Like
Speaker 1: wearing my high tops and sweatshirt. I am not turning
Speaker 1: heads except other girls heads to be like, where did
Speaker 1: you get them? High tops? Those are cute? It looks
Speaker 1: so comfortable, sensible, and so it's it's really interesting to
Speaker 1: think of high fashion now um, really colliding with what
Speaker 1: was more of the lure fashion. But first, let's talk
Speaker 1: about at leisure. What is this thing at leisure? This
Speaker 1: portmanteau of athletic. It's like benefits leisure. Beneferis Ben and Jennifer.
Speaker 1: Who was that? First it was been Athleck and j
Speaker 1: Lo and then rest in peace Jennifer Garner. She's not dead.
Speaker 1: I just mean they're getting a divorce, Caroline. Yeah, rest
Speaker 1: in peace to that marriage. Sorry, back to sweatpants. Yeah.
Speaker 1: At leisure is basically the concept of dressing for the gym.
Speaker 1: If you want to be really cute when you go
Speaker 1: to a gym, but actually going to the gym is
Speaker 1: so optional. Yeah, oh, trust me, I have there have
Speaker 1: been days where I'm like, you know, I've been cleaning
Speaker 1: my apartment all day. I really need to go to
Speaker 1: the grocery store, but I am gross looking, and I'm
Speaker 1: not wearing makeup and I'm not about to put makeup on.
Speaker 1: How can I go to the grocery store looking like
Speaker 1: this and have it be socially acceptable? I know this
Speaker 1: has literally happened more than once. Often I will put
Speaker 1: on I'll change out of my like gross cleaning clothes
Speaker 1: and put on like cuter yoga specific clothes and tennis
Speaker 1: shoes and socks and be like, see, I just I
Speaker 1: just came from the gym. Maybe at leisure it works
Speaker 1: on so many levels. Um Vogue reported in October that
Speaker 1: roughly half of the people buying activewear these days, so
Speaker 1: you yoga pants and sports bra, zias and such, they're
Speaker 1: buying it for non active use, such as go into
Speaker 1: the grocery store. Yeah, everything that Stacy London would preach against.
Speaker 1: I know. Oh Stacy London, where are you? We have
Speaker 1: so many questions for you? Do you have so many
Speaker 1: questions mostly about the singular pant. Yeah, the sweat pant,
Speaker 1: yoga pant, Yes, pant. But I loved this. So Women's
Speaker 1: Health noted that in yoga participation was up four point
Speaker 1: five percent, not must day, but yoga, where sales were
Speaker 1: up percent. We have a whole wardrobe. And I will confess, Caroline,
Speaker 1: that I am consistently one of the worst dressed in
Speaker 1: yoga because I cannot. I just don't have the disposal
Speaker 1: income to buy all sorts of things. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I probably should buy newer sports bras, but it's all
Speaker 1: like I am in like pattered rags. Comparatively Cinderella. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do these these women who come in with very cute ensembles.
Speaker 1: That's the same way I my whether I'm doing yoga
Speaker 1: or running or whatever, my uniform is T shirt probably
Speaker 1: from some event that I went to and kneel link
Speaker 1: yoga pants and sneakers, um, and so I am also
Speaker 1: I basically I don't look like I'm a professional yoga doer.
Speaker 1: Speaking though, of T shirts, Caroline, I don't know about you,
Speaker 1: but one of my favorites to wear in yoga class
Speaker 1: or working out is my w W g D T shirt,
Speaker 1: which is what would Glory do. Gloria's dynam it makes
Speaker 1: me feel empowered a little bit. Well, I'm working out,
Speaker 1: you know, Kristen. One of my favorite shirts to work
Speaker 1: out in is the Hey Lady's shirt featuring none other
Speaker 1: than yours truly and also yours truly pointing at you,
Speaker 1: that you can buy on our spreadshirt store. Do people
Speaker 1: ever do double takes when they notice that you're wearing
Speaker 1: your face on your your boobs? No? No, because I
Speaker 1: guess it's a cartoon rendering, so so it's not as
Speaker 1: clear it's our caricature faces. We both have giant Moses
Speaker 1: and jims unrecognizable. Um. Well, back to at leisure? Can
Speaker 1: we just talk about our faces on shirts for another
Speaker 1: half hour? Um? Back to at leisure. Though there were
Speaker 1: lots of different terms for it before the industry kind
Speaker 1: of begrudgingly settled on at leisure. It's been called performance lifestyle.
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal called it convertible dressing, and my favorite,
Speaker 1: some bloggers tried to call it the cozy boy movement
Speaker 1: for guys, and g Q also tried to make sports
Speaker 1: core happen. But no, no, no, no leisure. I'm sure
Speaker 1: the people who call it sports Core also go to
Speaker 1: CVS and buy the shower poof that's made specifically for men,
Speaker 1: which is like a dollar cheaper than the regular shower poofs.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad sports Core. I did post about it
Speaker 1: on my Instagram though. Um, but it's not like this
Speaker 1: is cheap. It's not like thing out of mainstream fashion
Speaker 1: and wearing your yoga pants to be sports core is
Speaker 1: a cheaper lifestyle. All you have to do for evidence
Speaker 1: is visit Tory Birch's athletes are offshoot called Tory Sport
Speaker 1: for avant and opre sport clothes. I love that. I
Speaker 1: did not see the price, but saw that it offers
Speaker 1: some pearl encrusted sneakers. I can't believe my mother hasn't
Speaker 1: tried to make me buy those yet. Oh maybe I'll
Speaker 1: drop a little friendly hint for the holidays. Kelly, don't
Speaker 1: answer the phone and Kristen calls um, and we are
Speaker 1: buying this stuff up like hotcakes. Forbes magazine recently reported
Speaker 1: that US consumers spent three billion dollars on apparel, footwear,
Speaker 1: and accessories in which is only up one percent from
Speaker 1: the previous year, But that one percent is a two
Speaker 1: billion dollars worth one percent, so nothing to sneeze at,
Speaker 1: and that money has only grown since. Well, I was
Speaker 1: interested to see that this. I just figured the word
Speaker 1: ath leisure, and the concept was new relatively if anything
Speaker 1: ever knew anymore, Caral, I'm figuring out that it's not.
Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting that Miriam Webster actually
Speaker 1: traced the first use of the potmanteau ath leisure to
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy nine issue of Nation's Business. In that article,
Speaker 1: John Gibauer, who was the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association's director
Speaker 1: of Advertising and Promotion at the time, said the booming
Speaker 1: popularity of fitness has given birth to a similar boom
Speaker 1: in apparel and footwear design for those who actually participate
Speaker 1: in sports and those who just want to look as
Speaker 1: if they do. The whole ath leisure, a new term
Speaker 1: that's popped up market, is in a state of tremendous growth.
Speaker 1: So the more things change, Christen, the more things change,
Speaker 1: the more things change, the more we just revert to sweatsuits. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: at least we're not doing that. We I mean collectively,
Speaker 1: and this is idealistic, but at least we're not doing
Speaker 1: the whole juicy on the butt thing anymore, right, please?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that trend that was a high
Speaker 1: school era trend for us where I remember my mother
Speaker 1: was outrage at the idea of young women wearing slogans
Speaker 1: on their behind. Well, I just I just think that
Speaker 1: wearing like a pink terry cloth jumpsuit is none too flattering.
Speaker 1: I had some of those terry cloth pants caroline nothing
Speaker 1: on the butt, but they were an unfortunate shade of orange.
Speaker 1: But we've definitely seen this fashion trend even before nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine, this whole interplay of of how do we
Speaker 1: blend our sporting life with our everyday life life. And
Speaker 1: Britt Peterson broke this down in a fantastic Austin Globe
Speaker 1: column where she notes that sporting specific clothes first appeared
Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages, with things like gauntlets for falconry
Speaker 1: and writing boots for writing things. Um, and there were
Speaker 1: status symbols, not surprisingly because if you could afford to
Speaker 1: not only have time to have these hobbies and then
Speaker 1: also have these special things that you would wear while
Speaker 1: doing them, that takes some money, I mean, and falconry
Speaker 1: just period. I mean, the cost of entry is astonishing.
Speaker 1: Now I wear my sports falcon everywhere. Yes, Um, what's
Speaker 1: your sports falcon's name? Jim, Jim, Yeah, oh Jim. But
Speaker 1: as we see sports develop as a thing like team
Speaker 1: sports start to develop, custom athletic where evolves along with it,
Speaker 1: and specifically though for the aristocratic among us, because it's
Speaker 1: signals that you have time to play sports and that
Speaker 1: you have the money to invest in what at the time,
Speaker 1: we're often custom out fits. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1: In the late nineteenth century, you're seeing this boom in cycling,
Speaker 1: in tennis, and for tennis, Oh God help you if
Speaker 1: you're not wearing your adorable tennis whites. Yeah. And and
Speaker 1: women need to move around to do both of these things, um.
Speaker 1: And there is a growing aversion to wearing corsets and
Speaker 1: more restrictive clothing as a result of that. So you
Speaker 1: see the rise of sporting dresses and of course Bloomers,
Speaker 1: which we've mentioned it's so often on the podcast. Um
Speaker 1: Peterson though in The Boston Globe described Bloomers as quote
Speaker 1: the yoga pants of the eighteen nineties, which that alone
Speaker 1: justifies us doing this episode. If we can link Amelia
Speaker 1: Bloomer and reform dressed and first wave feminism to yoga
Speaker 1: pants today perfect and Amelia Bloomers sentiments about the need
Speaker 1: for this bifurcated garment um. And in case you aren't
Speaker 1: familiar with Bloomers, they are so a midcalf hammer pants,
Speaker 1: and they're like hammer pants, but you would wear still
Speaker 1: a skirt over them, but it would be a shorter skirt,
Speaker 1: more knee length or midcalf, because come on, the lots
Speaker 1: of room to let your knees breathe. Yes, yes, but
Speaker 1: we're still ladies. But Bloomer said around eighteen fifty quote
Speaker 1: as soon as it became known that I was wearing
Speaker 1: the new dress, letters came pouring in upon me by
Speaker 1: the hundreds from women all over the country, making inquiries
Speaker 1: about the dress and asking for patterns, showing how ready
Speaker 1: and anxious women were to throw off the burden of long,
Speaker 1: heavy skirts. And to me, that's so echoes the ath
Speaker 1: leisure relief of saying, oh, I can wear hi tops
Speaker 1: to the office or out to dinner if I want
Speaker 1: to instead of heels. Fantastic. Let us throw off our
Speaker 1: burdensome garments and put on a sports bra. And we
Speaker 1: moved into the twentieth century sports and leisure because more
Speaker 1: fashionable with help from people like Coco Chanel and other
Speaker 1: famous designers who reinvented sportswear, which is not just sportswear.
Speaker 1: It could be activewear that you're wearing to be active
Speaker 1: and do active things. It could be passive and that
Speaker 1: you are a spectator of something active, or it could
Speaker 1: just mean that you're flitting about town or driving out
Speaker 1: to the country to to look at your horses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sportswear is not really not like running shoes and shorts.
Speaker 1: It's more like a Michael Core's ensembles. I never I
Speaker 1: never understood that as someone who's consumed women's magazines my
Speaker 1: entire life. Basically like seeing pictures of like the Spring
Speaker 1: sports where I'm like, they're wearing blazers. You can't play
Speaker 1: sports in that you can't play bad men in a blazer. Um.
Speaker 1: But speaking of bloomers, it is just a degree of
Speaker 1: separation away from at leisure. Again, I clearly I'm very
Speaker 1: obsessed with this link between nineteenth century bloomers and my
Speaker 1: yoga classes today because they were actually between the two
Speaker 1: um yoga bloomers. It's just like fun fact I was
Speaker 1: trying to find the origin of yoga pants, because obviously
Speaker 1: yogi's of old did not wear Lulu women yoga pants
Speaker 1: for any kind of like spandex garment um. In the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies though apparently, uh yogis in the US usually
Speaker 1: wore T shirts and yoga bloomers which kind of look
Speaker 1: like oversized diapers their shorts. But the hem is gathered
Speaker 1: so that when you are doing your poses, you are
Speaker 1: not exposing your genitals to the rest of the class.
Speaker 1: Just just a considerate thing. Although I mean, like a
Speaker 1: lot of yogi's will you know, if you're like really
Speaker 1: hardcore about it, you'll do that naked. Um. But well,
Speaker 1: I think it's funny then though that the l A
Speaker 1: Times read about in that the quote once disparate worlds
Speaker 1: of fashion and athletics have been on a convergence course
Speaker 1: because it's obviously not news. It's obviously been happening since
Speaker 1: Amelia Bluemer exactly. Um, but why though, but why now,
Speaker 1: why are we all essentially wearing yoga pants all of
Speaker 1: the time. Well, it took off in just to give
Speaker 1: you a sense of like how quickly this happened, and
Speaker 1: you did have like a lot of celebrity lead collaborations
Speaker 1: like uh, Alexander wag and h and M Beyonce and
Speaker 1: top shops. So at least it was brought to the masses.
Speaker 1: But there obviously were some some background factors to this.
Speaker 1: First of all, in early we had norm core becoming
Speaker 1: mainstream that I'm sorry that hit too close to home
Speaker 1: because that is how my mother dressed. I'm like, why
Speaker 1: does every freaking hipster look like Sally circ It's driving
Speaker 1: me crazy. The white reebox give it up. Well, if
Speaker 1: not all that Caroline, it's not all norm core, Okay.
Speaker 1: There's also the influence of Silicon Valley. I mean it's
Speaker 1: essentially the tech casual wardrobe influence because there is no
Speaker 1: more demarcation between between work and life because work is life,
Speaker 1: especially if you are in any kind of tech related,
Speaker 1: creative related industry whatsoever, or if you're Mark Zuckerberg, or
Speaker 1: if you're Mark Zuckerberg. I mean that's the thing. Like,
Speaker 1: is Mark Zuckerberg the original ath leisure evangelists. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure at night when he is going to bed in
Speaker 1: hands dips this hoodie, he just has another one underneath.
Speaker 1: It's just flannel for like the jama material um. And
Speaker 1: this is also reflected in this whole rise of wearable
Speaker 1: tech too. Of course we're like strapping things on ourselves
Speaker 1: to monitor are our heartbeat and how well we're sleeping
Speaker 1: and how many cheetahs we just ate and whatever. And
Speaker 1: it's something that g Q talked about an article they wrote,
Speaker 1: It's time to start thinking of the clothes you. We're
Speaker 1: not as fashion, but as tech. They are intuitive, modular,
Speaker 1: and way outside the cubicle tools that keep you moving
Speaker 1: on a friction less path forward. So what Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: would call a hoodie, right, or or if you make
Speaker 1: enough money you can call it a hoodie. I would think. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But since we're dressing at least like we are going
Speaker 1: to work out, maybe before work or after work, does
Speaker 1: this mean that our actual fitness consciousness is rising. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that when we come right back
Speaker 1: from a quick break. So, as we note at the
Speaker 1: top of the podcast, a lot of people are at
Speaker 1: least dressing like they're going to go to the gym, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and look cute while they're at the gym.
Speaker 1: They could take a selfie at the gym and like
Speaker 1: be proud of what they see because they're like matched
Speaker 1: and it's you know they're cool zig zags on your
Speaker 1: sports bras now, Um, but does that mean we are
Speaker 1: actually paying, you know, more attention to our bodies and
Speaker 1: exercising more. No, no, not necessarily. At the same time
Speaker 1: that all of this athletic apparel sales has been on
Speaker 1: the rise in the past five years, we've seen actual
Speaker 1: participation in individual racket and team sports falling, and outdoor
Speaker 1: water and fitness sports were also flat. That's coming from
Speaker 1: Fast Company. We've also got the thing too in terms
Speaker 1: of like fashion and body image of like fits bo
Speaker 1: being a thing, and like thin and toned being an
Speaker 1: ideal versus the nineties like thin and waify. So we
Speaker 1: are like striving for a certain image even if we're
Speaker 1: not actually working out or playing racquetball. And I was
Speaker 1: surprised actually to see those numbers because I live near
Speaker 1: a Pure bar, for instance, and every Saturday it is
Speaker 1: packed to the gills. And it is also catty corner
Speaker 1: to a Lulu Lemon, which is I feel like, very intentional, um.
Speaker 1: And also too you you know, we recently heard about
Speaker 1: the Soul Cycle I p O where we have this
Speaker 1: mega franchise, So I mean I just assumed that, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all working out all the time, right, Not really,
Speaker 1: I guess not. I'm buying into it. I'm being duped.
Speaker 1: This is the trickery that Don Karen was talking about,
Speaker 1: having him boast about. Yeah, she was saying that she
Speaker 1: thinks it's dressing the part of fitness, so people will
Speaker 1: just assume you're living a fit lifestyle regardless of whether
Speaker 1: you actually are. Yeah. And and she, by the way,
Speaker 1: is a fashion psychologist, which is an occupation that makes
Speaker 1: total sense that it exists. But I did not know
Speaker 1: it was a thing. I got a lot of questions
Speaker 1: for a fashion psychologists, specifically, what do my overalls really
Speaker 1: say about me? Well, I mean, but this isn't a
Speaker 1: new thing either. I mean this goes back to your
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties tennis whites too, of like, look how much
Speaker 1: money I have that I'm able to pay for these
Speaker 1: custom fancy clothes. True? Um, And I mean part of
Speaker 1: the appeal, obviously too, is the comfort. As someone at
Speaker 1: Forbes wrote, comfort is queen with ath leisure clothing, because
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an excuse to to really dress as
Speaker 1: comfortably as we want. Yet another thing, Kristen, It's Stacy
Speaker 1: London would smack down forcefully, because I mean, how many
Speaker 1: episodes of What Not to Wear were people She's like,
Speaker 1: why are you wearing that? And they're like, well, it's comfortable.
Speaker 1: She's shaking her fist at them. But I would be
Speaker 1: so curious to know whether Stacy London it proves at
Speaker 1: least of the comfort being somewhat fashion forward and well fitting,
Speaker 1: unlike someone just wearing, you know, an old T shirt
Speaker 1: and sweat. I do wonder. I did wonder, literally, I
Speaker 1: really did. I did wonder if stay Cee London and
Speaker 1: other like fashion industry type commenting people are changing their
Speaker 1: tunes somewhat on athletic apparel and comfortable apparel. What I'm
Speaker 1: seeing are the guides now of how to take your
Speaker 1: athletiure look from the office to happy hour. So it's
Speaker 1: usually wearing like a stretchy pant with a blazer and
Speaker 1: heels and and like a wedge yeah, and necklace. And
Speaker 1: I mean it's still very expensive. It's not like it's
Speaker 1: not like it's easier to dress necessarily and cut to
Speaker 1: the chase just by sequin leggings perfect, and then it's
Speaker 1: appropriate for all occasions. I'm just imagining how annoying. It
Speaker 1: would be for me to hear, just like every time
Speaker 1: I walk in my thighs right together, it's just sequin chafing. Kristen,
Speaker 1: If you want me to stop wearing my wind suit
Speaker 1: to the office, all you have to do is ask.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a minor request. But even Vogue is
Speaker 1: saying that maybe this is a statement that fashion has
Speaker 1: become too fussy, at which point I'm like, well, what
Speaker 1: is holy anymore? What is sacred? Yeah? I mean, and
Speaker 1: speaking about her Tory Sport new store, Tory Birch told
Speaker 1: Vogue quote, it really seemed like a change in the
Speaker 1: way women we were dressing. I started to think, how
Speaker 1: do we make this stuff chic? Again? What a lot
Speaker 1: of sports brands miss? It's femininity unless it's a garish
Speaker 1: femininity in the form of exposed body parts and neon colors. Heavens. So,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing, though, I mean, you have
Speaker 1: designers who are basically plucking up, you know, the sweatpants
Speaker 1: and remaking them to be chic. Now I'm being reminded
Speaker 1: of how Kanye West started leather of sweatpants. But that's
Speaker 1: the conversation for another time. Um, But you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, it's uh, it's not necessarily that it
Speaker 1: might be comfortable, it might be more comfortable, but it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily more accessible. Yeah. And I mean for some designers,
Speaker 1: not all as we'll talk about just a second, but
Speaker 1: for some designers, like, hey, as long as you're still
Speaker 1: like visibly feminine, it's okay to wear a sweat pant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean. And and the company obviously that made this
Speaker 1: their bread and butter straight to the bank is Lulu Lemon,
Speaker 1: which was founded by Canadian Chip Wilson in and his intention,
Speaker 1: as reported on in The New Yorker, was to set
Speaker 1: out to make yoga close stylish enough to wear all day.
Speaker 1: And yes, this is the same Chip Wilson who in
Speaker 1: December had to step down as Lulu chairman because he
Speaker 1: had a had a fat shamy excuse for that little
Speaker 1: incident when some of their yoga pants had transparent crotches.
Speaker 1: Made your happy babies a little bit r rated. You're
Speaker 1: happy babies, happy baby? Yeah, so you it's a yoga post.
Speaker 1: You lay on your back and you grab your feet.
Speaker 1: I was like, what do you call your for China, Kristen,
Speaker 1: not my happy baby, not my Happy Baby Caroline. Well,
Speaker 1: Lululemon has seen a sixteen percent growth and sailed overall
Speaker 1: despite share price drops after that whole see through Happy
Speaker 1: Baby incident. Website sales this year are thirty one percent.
Speaker 1: And it's funny that their sizing focuses on feel rather
Speaker 1: than body shape. So are the fits. The fits are
Speaker 1: named Hugged, Naked, relaxed, tight, and held in. Yes. And
Speaker 1: speaking of the hugged, they as of this podcast recording, uh,
Speaker 1: they just launched like some new I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's a new line or what, but they described these
Speaker 1: pants as being engineered to feel like a friend giving
Speaker 1: you a close hug. Get off, get off me. I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I'm not a hugger. No, and especially
Speaker 1: don't be hugging my legs and my butt would get
Speaker 1: out of there. Why why would my friend be hugging
Speaker 1: my thighs? So strange. Yeah, that's so strange that it
Speaker 1: was circulating on like the fashion in women's blogs being like, uh,
Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon, no, thank you. I've been in a Lululemon
Speaker 1: once and I went in again. It was the thing
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I need some yoga pants, Like this
Speaker 1: is great, I'll go in here, and I literally did
Speaker 1: the thing where because I can't help myself. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: picked up a pair of pants and just started laughing
Speaker 1: because they're so expensive. Oh yeah, I can't go in
Speaker 1: It's I I cannot afford Lululemon hands down. And then
Speaker 1: I had like a seven foot tall man wearing a
Speaker 1: man bun who weighed approximately seven pounds look at me
Speaker 1: and be like can I help you? And I'm like no,
Speaker 1: obviously you can't. And then he started hugging your thighs
Speaker 1: and you were like, get me out of here. Um.
Speaker 1: But you also see this in companies like Adidas and
Speaker 1: Nike taking advantage of this trend. Nike specifically has been
Speaker 1: blowing out its athletes are offerings for women, including things
Speaker 1: called the arrow React shirt that detects when you're about
Speaker 1: to sweat and it'll loosen up a little bit. And
Speaker 1: that is kind of cool. It is cool and weird. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah. Nike also their sales were up ten percent
Speaker 1: over the year before under armours were up. Nike also
Speaker 1: had a really successful hashtag better for It digital campaign
Speaker 1: that wood fans with everyday women models instead of professional models,
Speaker 1: and they're very optimistic that they're going to keep this
Speaker 1: momentum going. They estimate that they can grow their women's
Speaker 1: sales by to seven billion dollars. And Nike CEO Mark
Speaker 1: Parker is so confident in this that at Women's Innovation
Speaker 1: Summit and wait for this innovation friends, he said, quote,
Speaker 1: leggings are the new denim, not jaggings, leggings. And so
Speaker 1: that's the question. Like some people are saying, like yoga
Speaker 1: pants are the new gene or should I say yoga
Speaker 1: pants or the new gene? I mean, I know, I
Speaker 1: know people I guess who wear leggings all the time
Speaker 1: as pants. I'm wearing them right now, Caroline, Well, but
Speaker 1: your yours look more. Let's be honest, your legging pants
Speaker 1: look more like pants than leggings just because they're stretching.
Speaker 1: You're also wearing a blousey shirt. It's a buffalo check.
Speaker 1: Your Beyonce would be so proud. Um. I also just
Speaker 1: bought a plaid shirt the other day. We should wear
Speaker 1: them on the same thing. Yeah, we often do. It's weird. Um,
Speaker 1: It's like our plaids are sinking up. Um, But gaps
Speaker 1: athleta pants are also nipping at sales of their genes.
Speaker 1: According to Forbes. And like I said, I am that
Speaker 1: person who has nearly switched over from Gap to Athleta,
Speaker 1: mainly because Gap is just not that inspired anymore. I
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever talked this much on the podcast
Speaker 1: about how we dress. I wonder if listeners are like,
Speaker 1: they wear what high top? Who unsubscribed? But the thing
Speaker 1: is in the workplace at leisure could become the new
Speaker 1: power suit? What shoulder pads? Yes? Uh no, No. This
Speaker 1: was something explored in a paper from the Harvard Business
Speaker 1: School called the Red Sneakers Effect Inferring status and competence
Speaker 1: from signals of non conformity. And basically what these researchers
Speaker 1: found was that non conforming behavior such as wearing a
Speaker 1: hoodie or a high top in a workplace environment can
Speaker 1: signal higher status so long as it's done intentionally. And
Speaker 1: this is what they call the red sneaker effect. So
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, for instance, and his trademark hoodie does have
Speaker 1: a red sneaker effect because he's like, hey, y'all, I'm
Speaker 1: crazy successful and I'm just gonna wear a hoodie to
Speaker 1: work because that's what I'm comfortable in. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: basically a prerequisite that you must be powerful. I'm confident
Speaker 1: this must be coming from a place so I not
Speaker 1: only I give no hoots, but also that you have
Speaker 1: the status and stature to back it up. It's a
Speaker 1: type of conspicuous consumption. The author's right, and it's a
Speaker 1: status symbol among Silicon Valley executives well, and they use
Speaker 1: the example two of going into a high end store
Speaker 1: in say you're yoga pants and sneakers and actually getting
Speaker 1: better service because of it, because it looks like, oh,
Speaker 1: you just you know, you're just running errands about your day.
Speaker 1: You know, it just came from the gym, so it
Speaker 1: looks like an intentional kind of thing. Although I'm the opposite.
Speaker 1: If I end up going into a store when I'm
Speaker 1: fresh from a workout, I don't want anyone to talk
Speaker 1: to me. And well, mainly because, as my mother pointed out,
Speaker 1: my entire life, if I'm not wearing blusher, I look
Speaker 1: a little dead. So I'm sure sales p boll tend
Speaker 1: to avoid me because they're like, the zombie apocalypse is
Speaker 1: begun and it's and it's wearing ath leisure. I'm just
Speaker 1: imagining you with like the clown clown cheet crying and
Speaker 1: I apply a wind suit. Um. But I wonder though,
Speaker 1: in the real world whether the ath leisurely dressed dude
Speaker 1: in the workplace would be judge the same as an
Speaker 1: athlete's really dressed woman, or maybe I should put that opposite, like,
Speaker 1: like do women would women benefit from that status bump
Speaker 1: of dressing down versus dressing up? Because I mean, just
Speaker 1: what it made me think of was a contrast between
Speaker 1: and this might just be personal style, but the contrast
Speaker 1: between Mark Zuckerberg hoodie and Cheryl Sandberg always in like
Speaker 1: a very smart dress suit blouse. Well, that actually makes
Speaker 1: me think of one particular job that will go and
Speaker 1: name too that I used to have, um where extreme
Speaker 1: like dedication that some coworkers had to dressing up for
Speaker 1: work was more for each other. And I'm speaking of
Speaker 1: women specifically, Like yeah, the guys work ties and button
Speaker 1: up shirts whatever, but like the women that I worked
Speaker 1: around were always like so impeccably dressed. I was not.
Speaker 1: I didn't have the status to back up my nonconformity,
Speaker 1: but but I was nonconforming. Um, And so I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's more like it seems like
Speaker 1: women in the workplace or more dressing up for themselves
Speaker 1: and each other. That's true. I catch myself doing that sometimes.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do have a desk next to you,
Speaker 1: Caroline So, and you're like, how do I top the
Speaker 1: wind suit that she wears? Tiny top hat? Done, Holly
Speaker 1: of stuff you missed in history class does have a
Speaker 1: tiny top hat. But she received from a listener. Oh
Speaker 1: and it you can put per few minute. Yeah, handy,
Speaker 1: I'll stand by the mailbox. Listeners will be waiting. Although
Speaker 1: maybe instead of perfume, if it could just be a
Speaker 1: snack power Yeah, yeah, I know you're on my wavelength. Congress,
Speaker 1: We've got a couple of things in common. We both
Speaker 1: love snacks and wind suits. But back to the wind
Speaker 1: suits and gender, there's a question of whether this signals
Speaker 1: a fashion move away from binary gender because a lot
Speaker 1: of these athleture styles are pretty unisex um. Ruth Laferla,
Speaker 1: writing at New York Times, described how Spring Fashion Week
Speaker 1: was marked by quote that deliberate erosion on the runways
Speaker 1: of a once rigid demarcation between conventionally feminine and masculine clothes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they cited Kanye's stuff, right, Yeah, the easy
Speaker 1: line is very loose, uh, monochromatic, and would look basically
Speaker 1: the same on a guy or a girl. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there seems to be this trend in some sports where
Speaker 1: obviously not things like Tory Birch, but in some sports
Speaker 1: where that unisex is hit. Basically you're taking the gender
Speaker 1: cues out of the merchandizing. Like literally some stores like
Speaker 1: Don't Have You know, like this is the women's section
Speaker 1: over here, um, and they're leaving it up to just
Speaker 1: what the individual shopper wants to where and and to me,
Speaker 1: this kind of almost makes sense. It's like when you
Speaker 1: think about some of the younger fashion designers today, it's
Speaker 1: like they're just art kids, you know, art school kids.
Speaker 1: And I'm absolutely not saying that in a dismissive way.
Speaker 1: I'm saying this with full love and respect to the like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe there's just a wave of younger generation fashion designers
Speaker 1: who were like, screw all of your gender norms, and
Speaker 1: while we want you to pay for our clothes that
Speaker 1: we made, like, screw all of this materialism that circulates
Speaker 1: around these gender divisions that we just don't need. Well,
Speaker 1: because how often too have we seen men's wear being
Speaker 1: slightly recut for women to wear. I mean, I am,
Speaker 1: I am essentially wearing men's wear right now. I'm wearing
Speaker 1: an oversized buttoned down plaid shirt. My Beyonce actually asked
Speaker 1: me Caroline if it was because he has a very similar,
Speaker 1: similarly printed button down shirt. Kristen Conger, have you had
Speaker 1: your engagement photos made yet? By any chance? I am
Speaker 1: waiting for the day when we both walk out in
Speaker 1: basically the identical shirt and he will hate it and
Speaker 1: I will love it. Now my boyfriend I we both
Speaker 1: wear gray V neck T shirts all the time. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like it's it's not like I mean, the
Speaker 1: demarcation that's been there has basically been imposed by brands
Speaker 1: and designers, probably to sell more clothes and also too
Speaker 1: depending on the fit, so that will it will fit
Speaker 1: out things like our boobs and hips and butts better.
Speaker 1: But you're now seeing designers like Baja East and sixty
Speaker 1: nine and stores entire stores like Acne and Assembly New
Speaker 1: York that are making identical clothes for everybody, but maybe
Speaker 1: just cutting them a little bit differently. So again you
Speaker 1: can have more of a feminine fit if you want it.
Speaker 1: But they also will have unisex sections. Well, so it's
Speaker 1: athletes you're freeing us. Are we being liberated, Kristen? Can
Speaker 1: we run out in the street and celebrate. I want
Speaker 1: to say that we are being liberated, um to a degree,
Speaker 1: But it's not like our wallets are being liberated. It's
Speaker 1: not like the rules for dressing are going away, because
Speaker 1: you still have so many designers telling us the right
Speaker 1: way to wear our high tops. Yeah, and I'm still
Speaker 1: on Pinterest, like I tell Kristin earlier, like how do
Speaker 1: I put now fits together? I don't know? Humans do it?
Speaker 1: How do they do it? Yeah? And this also reflects
Speaker 1: to something that Amelia Bloomer of bloom or Fame once
Speaker 1: said it. She said, quote, the costume of women should
Speaker 1: be suited to her wants and necessities. It should conduce
Speaker 1: at once to her health, comfort, and usefulness. And while
Speaker 1: it should not fail also to conduce to her personal adornment,
Speaker 1: it should make that end of secondary importance. So basically like,
Speaker 1: let's wear clothes that allow us to live our lives.
Speaker 1: And to an extent, I think that at leisure is
Speaker 1: a sign of us doing it. But I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't want to necessarily say that it's liberating because it's
Speaker 1: still this massive industry that people are just grabbing money from,
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't say it's like the modern version of
Speaker 1: her form dress. I think that. I think yes and no.
Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of that. I think
Speaker 1: it's a little too soon to tell, maybe because the
Speaker 1: trend it still is new. I do think it's here
Speaker 1: to stay for at least a while. But we're going
Speaker 1: to swing back to more feminine cuts at some point
Speaker 1: because that's how fashion is. That is how fashion is.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're always going to want comfortable clothes that
Speaker 1: has not changed, that will never change. Um. But you're right,
Speaker 1: I think that you would be foolish to think that,
Speaker 1: like suddenly, at leisure as a thing is going to
Speaker 1: dominate fashion from here on out, forever and ever, and
Speaker 1: then we're going to start wearing just like snuggies to
Speaker 1: work every day, although our office is cold enough that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind one. But I do think that it
Speaker 1: is a shift away from dressing for male gaze to
Speaker 1: dressing actually for more of a female gaze, because what
Speaker 1: I see now in the way a girl's dressed, like
Speaker 1: you said, in the case of your old co workers,
Speaker 1: it's more to delight their girlfriends than to hunt for boyfriends.
Speaker 1: And that means something different to different people. For that
Speaker 1: particular group of women, the status and the being pleasing
Speaker 1: to the eye and all of that stuff revolved around
Speaker 1: a very certain set of clothes that were more on
Speaker 1: like the pencil skirt end of the spectrum. And that's fine,
Speaker 1: and they looked all they looked amazing. But I'm sure
Speaker 1: for another group of women at a different workplace where
Speaker 1: there wasn't a dress code or as strict of address code. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe not a snuggy workplace, but it would be different.
Speaker 1: That would mean something different to those women. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the shift away from just overt sexiness and the
Speaker 1: way that we usually think of it is interesting. And
Speaker 1: this reminds me that, uh, one of my best friends
Speaker 1: and my sister and I now all have the exact
Speaker 1: same pair of Nike high tops and I love it.
Speaker 1: It's like a little club. Yeah, well I love my
Speaker 1: A six Caroline. No, No, they aren't Nike high tops. No,
Speaker 1: how is it's Tiger? Is it on? Its supa? I
Speaker 1: don't even know. I can't actually read. It's a real embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I do like your a six. Well, now, what do
Speaker 1: we want to know from listeners about Ethlet you share, Caroline,
Speaker 1: do you wear it? Have you been shamed for it?
Speaker 1: Do you feel less shamed for it recently? Yeah? My
Speaker 1: plan is to take full advantage of the trend because
Speaker 1: also I'm a tall woman and I appreciate being quote
Speaker 1: unquote allowed to wear flats out if I want to.
Speaker 1: I used to catch flak for more fashionable friends of
Speaker 1: mine for not wearing heels all the time, partially because
Speaker 1: I did not want to be six two and towering
Speaker 1: over everyone else. Which time and place, it's great, Yes,
Speaker 1: um so I like that. I like the comfort element.
Speaker 1: Winter is coming, I can wear my sweatshirts. You're right,
Speaker 1: game of trends is about to come back, that's true.
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I think I'm I'm kind of full
Speaker 1: throttle at leisure, but to a limit. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to buy any pearl encrusted sneakers or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I'll return just you wait, Sally might get you son, Caroline.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be suppressed, but I am curious to know
Speaker 1: from listeners to if it feels like we're dressing ourselves,
Speaker 1: especially as women in a more US centric kind of
Speaker 1: way dressing for ourselves rather than especially to be sexy ladies.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure part of it is dressing for ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I love wearing that sweatshirt thing because it's so
Speaker 1: soft and comfy and I can dress it mostly down. Uh,
Speaker 1: But so much of it too is just people being like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a thing. Now I'm going to do this.
Speaker 1: Just like anything with fashion, there's gonna be people too
Speaker 1: when super like feminine, close cut fitted outfits come back
Speaker 1: around that are going to be like, oh, thank thank goodness,
Speaker 1: I can be myself because everybody has a thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the one thing we definitely did not
Speaker 1: get into is how you know body types with ath leisure, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it is a trend for every body.
Speaker 1: It does seem to be promoting a very specific beauty
Speaker 1: ideal that is that more fits bo soul cycle, muscular.
Speaker 1: But sure, and I mean I think it's just fashion
Speaker 1: catching up to some people and leaving behind others. Mean,
Speaker 1: I've worn I've had those a six forever, Like I've
Speaker 1: always worn sneakers with jeans and stuff like that, um
Speaker 1: into power suits and and my power suits. I mean
Speaker 1: so many shoulder pads in my yoga clothes. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just for you know, shoulder stand extra padding. Well, listeners,
Speaker 1: send us your thoughts mom Stuff at house Stuff works
Speaker 1: dot Com is our email address. You can also tweet
Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And
Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you.
Speaker 1: And we come right back from a quick break, Caroline.
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Speaker 1: Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage
Speaker 1: and type in stuff that's stamps dot com enter stuff
Speaker 1: and now back to the show. Well, we have a
Speaker 1: couple of letters here about our waitressing episode. This one's
Speaker 1: from Jackie. She says, thank you for your podcast about
Speaker 1: waitress thing. I am an actor slash actress and I
Speaker 1: was on my supplementary job hunt again today. I kept
Speaker 1: on wrestling with myself to apply as a server, to
Speaker 1: go into places where the big tips are made and
Speaker 1: get a quick cash kind of job. But it made
Speaker 1: me feel a bit sad and sick. I couldn't really
Speaker 1: explain it to myself. Sexism was on my mind, and
Speaker 1: as I bicycled around Toronto, I felt so trapped by
Speaker 1: the idealism of what I should be doing and the
Speaker 1: reality I was faced with. The norm for someone in
Speaker 1: my situation would be to make big tips at night
Speaker 1: and audition for TV during the day. I thought of
Speaker 1: my old hosting hostessing job at a fancy French restaurant
Speaker 1: where the uniform included red lipstick and flowing black skirts.
Speaker 1: I had to justify to myself why I had needed
Speaker 1: to quit. It took me time to remember how inadequate
Speaker 1: and fake I had felt flirting with a wealthy clientele,
Speaker 1: and how I flushed red when my boss called women girls.
Speaker 1: We were trained to be craft like in our positions
Speaker 1: and told that we would move up to be servers
Speaker 1: or ten bar. We were very good at our jobs
Speaker 1: and used our beautiful personalities. That's in quotes with success.
Speaker 1: I only saw men tend the bar, and then I
Speaker 1: saw newly employed men on bar, and none of us
Speaker 1: girls hostessing were ever invited to be servers. The server
Speaker 1: assistance were all men bus boys. The men employed by
Speaker 1: the restaurant were on average tend to fifteen years older
Speaker 1: than the women slash girls. The job wasn't unbearable in
Speaker 1: its function, but the system made me uncomfortable. It was
Speaker 1: great to listen to your podcast. It helps me make
Speaker 1: sense of things when I can understand my perceptions in
Speaker 1: context with history and culture. The serving industry has been
Speaker 1: something which seems so defined in a system that has
Speaker 1: remained so the same. I loved hearing about how the
Speaker 1: stems of its culture in North America are from the
Speaker 1: wild West. Thank you for your research and conversation, and
Speaker 1: thank you for your letter. Jackie Well. I've got a
Speaker 1: letter here from Kelly and she writes, I loved the
Speaker 1: waitressing episode. I never thought about the history behind waitressing,
Speaker 1: so I found a lot of this fascinating. Nor did
Speaker 1: I realize that there's so much controversy about the different
Speaker 1: aspects of waitressing. One thing that definitely stuck out to
Speaker 1: me was how people look down on waitresses. When I
Speaker 1: was a freshman in college and my roommate was looking
Speaker 1: for a job, her parents wouldn't let her get a
Speaker 1: job as a waitress because they saw that as beneath
Speaker 1: her as someone who had only worked in a restaurant.
Speaker 1: I was shocked. A friend of mine chose not to
Speaker 1: go to college and was waitressing part time at a
Speaker 1: different restaurant than the one I worked in. Because it
Speaker 1: was small, she could easily be the only waitress working
Speaker 1: and would earn quite a bit and tips. As time
Speaker 1: went on, people began to ask her how long she
Speaker 1: was going to work as a waitress. Feeling the negativity,
Speaker 1: she began working as a secretary in a doctor's office.
Speaker 1: She told me later that while it was nice to
Speaker 1: dress up for work, she wasn't making as much money
Speaker 1: in the office as she did as a waitress. The
Speaker 1: restaurant I worked at was not high end, but a
Speaker 1: busy tourist location, and on a good night, waitresses could
Speaker 1: take home several hundred dollars on summer nights. As far
Speaker 1: as harassment, even though I was never a waitress, I
Speaker 1: was still told to smile, mostly by older men, which
Speaker 1: was incredibly creepy. I look young for my age, so
Speaker 1: that was frequently a question. Probably the worst interaction I
Speaker 1: had with a mail customer was when he asked me,
Speaker 1: does your boyfriend think you're cute? I responded, I don't
Speaker 1: have a boyfriend, and then he wondered, well, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with you? I think I asked him how it was
Speaker 1: my fault, but I've never forgiven an awful question. I
Speaker 1: hope to not need to waitress in my life or
Speaker 1: cater anymore weddings, but if I need to, I certainly
Speaker 1: wouldn't mind. And all those years only instilled in me
Speaker 1: how hard it can be to work in a restaurant
Speaker 1: and that things sometimes just go wrong, and I've become
Speaker 1: much more understanding about things that happen when I go
Speaker 1: out to eat. So thanks Kelly, and thanks to all
Speaker 1: of the present and past servers that we've been hearing from.
Speaker 1: Your stories have been rolling in and we appreciate them.
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of your letters Mom, Stuff and how
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot Com is where you can send them
Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as
Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including
Speaker 1: this one with links to our sources. So you can
Speaker 1: learn more about at leisure. Head on over to stuff
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for moralns and thousands
Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it How stuff Works dot com