Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports
Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline
Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we're talking about a rather
Speaker 1: broad but important topic, which is the tendency of various
Speaker 1: people to exotic size, non white beauty. So let me
Speaker 1: break it down real quick. We came to this idea
Speaker 1: because I was reading some tabloid magazines. I'm sorry, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Hey, sometimes it's fun to read a tabloid.
Speaker 1: But every time I go home to see Sally, she
Speaker 1: hands me like this stack of tabloid magazines because she
Speaker 1: religiously goes every Friday to the grocery store to buy
Speaker 1: her tabloids. She would die if she heard me say this.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I'm flipping through and they're like two
Speaker 1: months old, and one thing that I noticed was how
Speaker 1: actress Lupia Niango has attracted so much praise and adoration.
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, that's great,
Speaker 1: she's a talented actor. Since she's achieving the attention and
Speaker 1: the praise that she deserves. Well, then I'm reading a
Speaker 1: couple more magazines and then I start looking at the
Speaker 1: Internet and I'm thinking this attention that she's getting is
Speaker 1: kind of weird because it didn't it started to not
Speaker 1: feel genuine. It started to feel like it was coming
Speaker 1: from a place where people were tripping over themselves to
Speaker 1: adore her and and heap adoration on her for strange reasons.
Speaker 1: And then I started to think, are people just obsessed
Speaker 1: with this actress because she's black? Well, and by people,
Speaker 1: are you referring more specifically to white people, I am
Speaker 1: referring more specifically to white people in this instance, white
Speaker 1: people in entertainment media. But also the blog is Fear,
Speaker 1: I mean, news probe rams anywhere that's talking about lupetea
Speaker 1: Niango seems to be referring to her as some other worldly,
Speaker 1: exotic beauty and what does that even mean? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: that word exotic that comes up a lot, which is
Speaker 1: what we really wanted to dig into, and a lot
Speaker 1: of our conversation in the in the first half of
Speaker 1: this episode is going to focus on Lupeta because it
Speaker 1: is Caroline such a perfect example of how culturally it's
Speaker 1: It's like we're almost trying to consume her and figure
Speaker 1: out like what what her beauty means for us, and uh,
Speaker 1: just for a little bit of background. This might seem
Speaker 1: a little dated, because Lupida's star really shot up during
Speaker 1: Awards season earlier this year, when she was receiving award
Speaker 1: after award and just looking stunning in general on so
Speaker 1: many red carpets, and she ultimately received the Academy Award
Speaker 1: for Best Supporting Actress for her role as Patsy in
Speaker 1: Twelve Yours a Slave, and it was highly celebrated when
Speaker 1: she looked incredible that night. She gave a very moving
Speaker 1: speech and like you staid Caroline, the blogosphere he so
Speaker 1: much deserved praise on her, but it was almost taken
Speaker 1: to this next level. Particularly, I felt like it really
Speaker 1: started to spiral into this huh, what are we really
Speaker 1: talking about extent when people named her, you know, the
Speaker 1: most beautiful woman in the world, which again like, of course,
Speaker 1: like she's gorgeous. Her star is rising um and she
Speaker 1: also got a contract with Landcombe Cosmetics, and it was
Speaker 1: as if people just couldn't talk enough about her exotic beauty.
Speaker 1: In particular, right, it seemed as if everybody, and I
Speaker 1: mean I say everybody, I mainly do mean white people.
Speaker 1: It seemed that a lot of white people were tripping
Speaker 1: over themselves to say how beautiful she was, to to
Speaker 1: talk about her acting chops, I don't know. It just didn't.
Speaker 1: There was something off about it. There was something strange
Speaker 1: and slightly disingenuous. Not that she doesn't deserve the praise,
Speaker 1: not that she's not beautiful, but all of the compliments
Speaker 1: seemed to focus on how different she was, right the
Speaker 1: exoticism factor. For instance, the Daily Mail proclaimed her exotic
Speaker 1: beauty and acting debut in twelve years of slave has
Speaker 1: left both Hollywood and the fashion world breathless. Over at Forbes,
Speaker 1: you have Niongo is the kind of star publicist dream about.
Speaker 1: She has an exotic background. And then at Hollywood Reporter,
Speaker 1: you have the fashion world appears ready to promote her beauty,
Speaker 1: even if to some it seems exotic. Yeah. Over at
Speaker 1: Salon in April, Aganda, Okayo called for everybody to stop
Speaker 1: this whole exoticization, this whole other ring of this actress.
Speaker 1: And she really rolled her eyes at that Hollywood Reporter story.
Speaker 1: Um because the writer, the Hollywood Reporter writers seemed to
Speaker 1: really be fretting about how in the world Lupete will
Speaker 1: go on in Hollywood, how will she succeed, how will
Speaker 1: she overcome her different nous and they wondered can a
Speaker 1: black actress ever reached Julia roberts stature and the story
Speaker 1: and okay O both name other African American actors and actresses,
Speaker 1: but there they seem very concerned that Lupeta just can't
Speaker 1: reach that upper echelon of acting the way that Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts has well. And it's not so much the question
Speaker 1: of will she post Oscar be able to continue, you know,
Speaker 1: climbing the ranks to a list Hollywood because there has
Speaker 1: been a problem it's called the Oscar curse for a
Speaker 1: number of African American women in particular, who received Academy
Speaker 1: Awards but then don't go on to get a number
Speaker 1: of really great media roles after that. But the issue
Speaker 1: there isn't so much in the color of their skin,
Speaker 1: but rather a lack of meaty roles written and given
Speaker 1: to women of color in Hollywood that aren't roles such
Speaker 1: as housekeeper like someone in The Help, or a slave
Speaker 1: like someone like Patsy in Twelve Years of Slave. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it is that concern about roles which I think
Speaker 1: that conversation is way more productive and justified than a
Speaker 1: conversation about her skin color. Um. The Hollywood Reporter quoted
Speaker 1: a studio executive talking about how there are so few
Speaker 1: roles out there for women of color. Those roles are
Speaker 1: not are just not being written, he said, And in
Speaker 1: quoting a talent agent, uh, they said that for someone
Speaker 1: who looks like her with a distinctively black African face,
Speaker 1: maybe she's someone who can change the direction for darker
Speaker 1: skin actresses, actresses who are definitely not European looking, but
Speaker 1: it may require some forward looking director to push for her. Well,
Speaker 1: the good news is it was recently announced that Lupida
Speaker 1: is going to be in the newest Star Wars that's
Speaker 1: coming up, so it doesn't seem like she is immediately
Speaker 1: doomed for some kind of post Oscar slump. But there's
Speaker 1: still that problematic issue of exotic sizing this beauty, because
Speaker 1: the funny thing about it is everyone was sort of
Speaker 1: falling over themselves and and praising the fact that the
Speaker 1: Academy had selected this more quote unquote exotic woman, had
Speaker 1: this exotic background with this exotic face, wherein actually her
Speaker 1: background is not so much unlike double negative Meryl streets
Speaker 1: for instance. Right, Yeah, This was pointed out by okay
Speaker 1: Oh again that basically, like here's Meryl Streep, she also
Speaker 1: kind of had a car round path because she did
Speaker 1: not have that traditional Hollywood starlet look, the more delicate features,
Speaker 1: the blonde hair. Um. But yeah, Streep was raised in
Speaker 1: a middle class family, attended Vasser in the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: where she fell out of place amongst some of her
Speaker 1: more affluent peers, and during auditions in her twenties she
Speaker 1: was often deemed not the best fit for Hollywood's archetype
Speaker 1: of what a female celebrity should look like. And it
Speaker 1: seems like a similar conversation right now is happening with
Speaker 1: Lapida now. On the other hand, with Nyongo, I think
Speaker 1: there was this initial idea, just because she doesn't look,
Speaker 1: for instance, like Meryl Street, that she must have come
Speaker 1: from some you know, troubled background and really scraped her
Speaker 1: way up and then magically got this role that then
Speaker 1: got her this Academy award, when in fact her background
Speaker 1: is uh quite privileged. Um. She was born in Mexico
Speaker 1: City and raised in Nairobi. She had pretty affluent parents.
Speaker 1: She went to Hampshire College for Undergraduate where she wrote
Speaker 1: and directed a feature documentary on albinism in Kenya called
Speaker 1: In My Jeans Um and she then went on in
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve to graduate in the Yale School of Drama,
Speaker 1: where she was regarded as a stellar student. So she
Speaker 1: actually has a pretty traditional, if not um elevated in
Speaker 1: a way film background, where she has been working her
Speaker 1: way up to this point. And the very fact though
Speaker 1: that that's a surprise to a lot of people is
Speaker 1: part of the reason why they're having this conversation. That's
Speaker 1: that's part of the problem, this question of like, well,
Speaker 1: why would we automatically assume otherwise? Yeah, well, I mean
Speaker 1: I think it fits in with a lot of people's
Speaker 1: assumptions and ignorance about Africa. Frankly, but like, it must
Speaker 1: have just been some lucky break for this unfortunate girl
Speaker 1: to have made her way here into acting and now
Speaker 1: she's won an oscar. It's like a Cinderella story when
Speaker 1: really she was she was never Cinderella. She worked really hard,
Speaker 1: she came from a privileged background and now she has
Speaker 1: earned her success and that's one of the reasons why.
Speaker 1: Writing over at Humington Post, Dr Lisa Tomlinson kind of
Speaker 1: calls out the racist undertones of this obsession with her
Speaker 1: among more of the white public, because it's not so
Speaker 1: much about her acting skill, but rather again the other
Speaker 1: ring of her beauty. Right Yeah, Thomlinson talks about how
Speaker 1: you know, who is it, who is it that's calling
Speaker 1: the Ango unconventional and exotic and other, and she says
Speaker 1: that it is coming from the white supremacist, patriarchal, and
Speaker 1: capitalist lens, that it is mainly I guess white people
Speaker 1: who are saying that she is the other, that she
Speaker 1: is unconventional, and Thomlinson goes on to write that mainstream
Speaker 1: media has systematically exoticized racialized women for white consumption. She
Speaker 1: goes on to talk about Gabberie Citabe who was in
Speaker 1: Precious and basically says, you know, it's not like Hollywood
Speaker 1: let her breakthrough becau has while she had the same
Speaker 1: dark skin that we praise lupetea Nango for, she doesn't
Speaker 1: fit into that standard Hollywood beauty. She's not going to
Speaker 1: wear a size zero or a size to dress, so
Speaker 1: we don't know what to do with her. And you know,
Speaker 1: Thomlinson also makes the point that in a lot of
Speaker 1: these conversations, the blogg is fear whoever, we tend to
Speaker 1: we tend to phrase frame this conversation as, Oh, this
Speaker 1: this individual is really overcoming a lot of self esteem
Speaker 1: issues tied to his or her skin color, when in reality,
Speaker 1: dark skinned women elsewhere in the world, outside of the
Speaker 1: U S, outside of the West are actually barred from
Speaker 1: seizing better opportunities economic job opportunities because of their skin tone.
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that skin whitening cream as is
Speaker 1: as popular as it is in so many countries. There
Speaker 1: are views of what lighter skin tone means in other
Speaker 1: countries that don't just boil down to self esteem or
Speaker 1: the white beauty ideal that we talked about here in
Speaker 1: the West. Well, in speaking of complexion, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: something that she brought up herself. Yoo did in a
Speaker 1: speech that went viral actually um around the time of
Speaker 1: the Academy Awards. She was giving a speech at a
Speaker 1: dinner for black women in Hollywood, and she said, quote,
Speaker 1: my complexion had already become something to overcome. And she
Speaker 1: really talks about the fact that, you know, when she
Speaker 1: was growing up, she didn't think she was beautiful because
Speaker 1: it was something that she never saw in advertisements or
Speaker 1: on film or in television. Again, it gets to that
Speaker 1: visibility issue that we hammer home over and over again
Speaker 1: on the podcast, and how she hoped that her being
Speaker 1: on screen, hopefully more and more, will be an example
Speaker 1: to girls like her growing up who don't think that
Speaker 1: they're beautiful because society, you know, usually upholds white beauty
Speaker 1: standards over non white beauty standards. And what's interesting in
Speaker 1: that speech too, is that she talks a lot about
Speaker 1: the importance of inner beauty and this quote from her
Speaker 1: mom about how she would tell Lupia over and over
Speaker 1: again when she would fread about these kinds of things
Speaker 1: that you can't eat beauty. You can't just consume it,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to sort of live from the
Speaker 1: inside out. And her talking about beauty in that way
Speaker 1: is so much the antithesis of the way that she
Speaker 1: is in many ways being consumed by white culture um.
Speaker 1: Which is why Eugene Lee Yang over at buzz Feed,
Speaker 1: in a conversation about this um said, is her beauty
Speaker 1: worshiped because she's black or because she somehow transcended our
Speaker 1: superficial idea of what black is? And side note too,
Speaker 1: as a white person, I think there's also this um
Speaker 1: aspect of wanting to pat ourselves on the back a
Speaker 1: little bit for elevating her to this position, but at
Speaker 1: the same time, we're really ultimately just co modifying her
Speaker 1: beauty for our own pleasure, which is really uncomfortable to
Speaker 1: hear myself, stay out loud, No, I I would totally
Speaker 1: agree that there seems uh Eugene Yang talks about how
Speaker 1: there's this like almost religious fervor with these observations of
Speaker 1: lupide in Yanga's beauty, and I do think there is
Speaker 1: an element of that where where um, white people are
Speaker 1: trying so hard not to appear racist all the time,
Speaker 1: or they're making such an effort to say like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing we're like, oh no, but
Speaker 1: I have black friends. It's that kind of thing. So
Speaker 1: when they're going out of their way to say, oh,
Speaker 1: she's so beautiful, it's it's almost like, you know, why,
Speaker 1: you're trying really hard to come off as open, open
Speaker 1: and accepting of someone else's beauty that you didn't grow
Speaker 1: up used to seeing. And a number of African American
Speaker 1: bloggers have also pointed out too in this broader conversation
Speaker 1: of how these this sort of eroticizing of particularly the
Speaker 1: darker skin tones or the lighter skin tones, happens within
Speaker 1: their communities as well. And actually, Damon Young over at
Speaker 1: Ebony was talking about how Lupie and Yango being elevated
Speaker 1: to this uh status as a beauty icon is good
Speaker 1: for black boys because the white beauty standards are certainly
Speaker 1: aren't don't exclusively impact what white people think beauty is
Speaker 1: as well, he writes about how images kids are exposed
Speaker 1: to matter and the black stars have often looked like
Speaker 1: Halle Berry, Beyonce or Rihanna, reinforcing that light skinned black
Speaker 1: women are the norm and the most desirable, right, And
Speaker 1: he admits that as a kid growing up, he you know,
Speaker 1: fell into that as well, that he idolized these lighter
Speaker 1: skinned black women because that's just what he was presented
Speaker 1: with over and over all the time. And he was,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's not just yeah, like you said,
Speaker 1: these media images don't exist in a vacuum. Everyone's being
Speaker 1: exposed to them. And so he was also being exposed
Speaker 1: to images of what quote unquote beauty is is and
Speaker 1: how that was often equated to white women beauty. And
Speaker 1: this is a lot of bloggers and even researchers have
Speaker 1: talked about this, that the word itself beauty is often
Speaker 1: tied in with white women. Oh yeah, there was some
Speaker 1: I forget who it was. Brought up a very good
Speaker 1: point to where if you just google image beauty, you
Speaker 1: usually are served up white female faces. Um and uh.
Speaker 1: Speaking a little more about skin tone, Jamala Lamo over
Speaker 1: at Clutch was talking about how there's also the exotic sizing,
Speaker 1: not just of you know, it's like white people are
Speaker 1: exoticizing Lupida's darker skin tone, whereas there's also within the
Speaker 1: African American community sometimes the exotic sizing of lighter biracial
Speaker 1: skin tones. She talks about the use of regular black
Speaker 1: girl versus the language of the exotic, which is often
Speaker 1: used to denote a woman of color with European or
Speaker 1: perhaps Asian heritage. Yeah. And Amina con Over at the
Speaker 1: Black Girl Dangerous blog in April talked about how language matters,
Speaker 1: and she says that dark skinned women are shunned and
Speaker 1: mistreated even by dark skinned men. They're lighter skin sisters,
Speaker 1: praised and glorified as though the association with whiteness makes
Speaker 1: them somehow better. And I feel like so many times
Speaker 1: the people who use the word exotic to describe a
Speaker 1: woman who is likely of of not the same ethnic
Speaker 1: origins as they are. I think it's some kind of compliment,
Speaker 1: But a lot of times when you hear from women
Speaker 1: who are referred to as exotic over and over again,
Speaker 1: it's not a compliment at all, because it's incredibly objectifying
Speaker 1: and sort of just boiling them down to this this
Speaker 1: other status. And I mean, calling someone exotic says a
Speaker 1: lot more about the person who's saying it than it
Speaker 1: does about the person who's receiving the word. And Kristen
Speaker 1: mentioned the term racial micro aggression and using the word
Speaker 1: exotic is an example of that, and to define it
Speaker 1: for you, uh, it's a turn that was first used
Speaker 1: by a professor of education and psychiatry at Harvard University
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, Dr Chester Pierce, but it was
Speaker 1: popularized more recently by Columbia University professor DARYLD W. Sue,
Speaker 1: author of Microaggressions in Everyday Life, Race, gender, and Sexual Orientation. Basically,
Speaker 1: a microaggression is where you maybe you think you're saying
Speaker 1: something to be nice, like calling someone exotic, when really
Speaker 1: it's just you telling that person that you think they're
Speaker 1: the other. And expounding on that a little bit, psychologist
Speaker 1: gal Alsen Sadie talks about how when you call someone
Speaker 1: exotic again, it's usually intended as a compliment, but as
Speaker 1: we all know, intentions don't necessarily make what you do okay,
Speaker 1: because when you really break it down, an exotic beauty
Speaker 1: isn't the same as a true beauty. Therefore, it's ultimately
Speaker 1: a discriminatory sentimentsity rites and as far as dating goes um.
Speaker 1: Going back to that BuzzFeed conversation that we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: he Been Negatu was one of the people in the
Speaker 1: conversation and she talks about Lupida, saying that I think
Speaker 1: she's being fetishized for her dark skin and appearance, but
Speaker 1: this doesn't translate into being coated as hot or sexy
Speaker 1: or other terms that denote desirability. I want her next
Speaker 1: role to be a romantic comedy. And I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's that's an interesting point that just because you
Speaker 1: call someone exotic, that doesn't necessarily mean you're calling them
Speaker 1: beautiful or think that they're cute, or you know, think
Speaker 1: that they are Julia roberts Uh starring with Hugh Grant
Speaker 1: and romantic comedy material, and so in that way, really
Speaker 1: your compliment is almost hollow because they're not being included
Speaker 1: in the general, the more general standard of beauty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was something that Asia la Chapelle Friday wrote about
Speaker 1: at the Root Um. She has a Louisiana Creole heritage
Speaker 1: UM and her family identifies as African American, and she
Speaker 1: talks about how any time guys would come up and
Speaker 1: call her exotic, she knew exactly what was behind that
Speaker 1: it was this kind of short lived enthusiasm. And she
Speaker 1: said that ultimately, quote, I feared I would never encounter
Speaker 1: a man who didn't make me feel as if I
Speaker 1: weren't an animal completing his search for a rare pet.
Speaker 1: And when you read too there there was another blogger,
Speaker 1: Jandy Wilson over at Exo Jane, writing around a similar
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I feel like almost pretty much
Speaker 1: any time I have read or heard a woman talking
Speaker 1: first person about this kind of fetishization that happens that
Speaker 1: specifically focused on their ethnic makeup, it is as though
Speaker 1: there non white ethnicity is simply seen as an open
Speaker 1: invitation for cat calling, for comments, for groping, for you know,
Speaker 1: it is that kind of in the way that lash
Speaker 1: Felle Friday puts it, that search for a rare pet.
Speaker 1: And that's why this conversation over at the Hairpin was
Speaker 1: really interesting. Um Gia Tolentino over the Hairpin was talking
Speaker 1: about a national geographic piece talking about what what our
Speaker 1: babies are going to look like in and how we're
Speaker 1: going to exist in this you know, post racial society
Speaker 1: where interracial relationships with the noirm and so with all
Speaker 1: of this melting pot nous and all of this blending,
Speaker 1: our kids are going to be these beautiful, dark skinned,
Speaker 1: light eyed, curly haired, you know supermodels. Yeah, everyone will
Speaker 1: kind of look as the want to pointed out like
Speaker 1: Rashida Jones and policy Mike sort of viralized it for
Speaker 1: the Internet and it went wild on social media and everyone.
Speaker 1: And again it's also a lot of white people saying like, yay,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the time when our babies are
Speaker 1: gonna look so much more interesting and just like cuter
Speaker 1: than they do today. And Tolentino sums up uh this
Speaker 1: attitude in in a in a statement that really like
Speaker 1: I email Kristen and was like, did you see this?
Speaker 1: She writes, look at how beautiful it is to see
Speaker 1: everything deluded that we used to hate. So well, it
Speaker 1: is great. It is great to celebrate interracial relationships and
Speaker 1: the fact that you can't get arrested anymore for a
Speaker 1: black man marrying a white woman, for instance. There is
Speaker 1: the whole conversation of like, well, wait, is a is
Speaker 1: a quote unquote regular black person or regular white person? Not? Okay,
Speaker 1: do we are we trying to change people? Are we?
Speaker 1: Do we not want to let people be who they are?
Speaker 1: Or you know, well, because it's it also kind of
Speaker 1: trace us back to the fact that, um, as much
Speaker 1: I think as we would like to live in some
Speaker 1: post racial utopia, we don't live in a post radial
Speaker 1: utopia as probably people of color can attest to far
Speaker 1: more than white people, as still the majority can attest to.
Speaker 1: And that was something um talking about, these semiotics of
Speaker 1: race and how that kind of other ring of non
Speaker 1: white people, particularly if you look in advertising, for instance,
Speaker 1: it still happens quite often, right. Yeah. Amina con who
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier from the blog black Girl Dangerous, talked
Speaker 1: about this whole semiotics issue, which is basically the study
Speaker 1: of how signs and symbols are used to create meaning
Speaker 1: and so what an image of a certain type of
Speaker 1: person is supposed to communicate to us as a society
Speaker 1: as consumers. She uses the example of a perfume ad
Speaker 1: where a white woman looking very satisfied as reclining on
Speaker 1: a bed while with his back to us, we see
Speaker 1: a black man standing over her and the ad copy,
Speaker 1: which I like, I had to read a couple of
Speaker 1: times because I almost didn't believe it at first, but
Speaker 1: the ad copy was take a walk on the wild side.
Speaker 1: And the implication is that if you use this perfume,
Speaker 1: you will get a thrill, you will be wild, you
Speaker 1: will be the type of woman who sleeps with black men.
Speaker 1: And isn't that cookie? Yeah? I mean, and if you
Speaker 1: even take that further, this this has me thinking about
Speaker 1: how people of color and and often, you know, indigenous
Speaker 1: groups are used far too often in fashion ads as
Speaker 1: just background props for white models wearing sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: in indigenous inspired clothing that has really just been culturally
Speaker 1: appropriated from other groups. And this leads up to this
Speaker 1: really important point that that Cohn made talking about those
Speaker 1: semiotics of race. She says, we must resist these categorizations
Speaker 1: at every turn. We must resist using blackness to signify
Speaker 1: savagery and animalism. We must resist using brownness to signify
Speaker 1: an exotic, mystical east. And why Why Because we must
Speaker 1: also resist using whiteness to signify purity and enlightenment and righteousness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she talks about how words like pretty and beautiful and
Speaker 1: cute are reserved for white women or white models and
Speaker 1: magazines whose bodies and sexualities aren't seen by society at
Speaker 1: large as wild animal or untamed um. And exotic is
Speaker 1: totally wrapped up in that because how often when's left
Speaker 1: time you heard exotic use for a blonde white woman
Speaker 1: from the Midwest, Right, I mean, certainly in our culture,
Speaker 1: we would never describe a woman like that as exotic,
Speaker 1: But we'll we'll call black women fierce or striking or
Speaker 1: eye catching or exotic, will call black men hulking, threatening, thuggish,
Speaker 1: We'll call white men charming with hearts of gold. But
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, those are those are lines that
Speaker 1: are unfair to the people that are being referred to
Speaker 1: that way. But I mean they're unfair coming out of
Speaker 1: the mouths of I don't know, right, I mean, because
Speaker 1: they're ultimately it's ultimately marginalizing, right, exactly, It's boiling people
Speaker 1: down to stereotypes. Yeah, I mean, and in this conversation
Speaker 1: we've really focused on exoticizing people of African descent, but
Speaker 1: really this applies to I mean, this happens so often
Speaker 1: to you hear about with Asian women. It happens with
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much any any non white female in particular,
Speaker 1: although it can also happen with men as well. This
Speaker 1: really cuts across ethnicities. And what's even weirder about this
Speaker 1: conversation is talking about quote unquote exotic beauty or in
Speaker 1: this in this instance from CNN, ethnic beauty as something
Speaker 1: that is a fashion statement. Instead of just saying, well,
Speaker 1: some people look like this and that's how they look,
Speaker 1: and other people look different and that's cool. The CNN
Speaker 1: article from Renington reads like a story from the Onion.
Speaker 1: It is talking about fashion, and it is talking about
Speaker 1: quote unquote ethnic beauty as if it is something that
Speaker 1: is now in and that you should aspire to. And
Speaker 1: aren't you curvy girls lucky to look the way you do?
Speaker 1: And this ties back to our conversation last October about
Speaker 1: cultural appropriations, really in the context of what not to
Speaker 1: wear as a Halloween costume, because the problem, for instance,
Speaker 1: with say, wearing an Native American inspired war bonnet as
Speaker 1: a white person like Farrell recently did on the cover
Speaker 1: of l U K and quickly had to issue an
Speaker 1: apology for is because it ultimately just appropriates and then
Speaker 1: commodifies another groups ceremonial sacred garb for our own white
Speaker 1: capitalistic gains. Because again and again and again throughout this article,
Speaker 1: it is incredible how uh, non white features are simply
Speaker 1: just turned into these selling points. For instance, you have
Speaker 1: this one plastic surgeon they interviewed saying fuller lips are
Speaker 1: definitely associated with ethnic cultures. And I don't think these
Speaker 1: trends are going to fade away too quickly. I mean this,
Speaker 1: this is not empowering. Well, and it's not. It's not. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think they're trying to pitch it as, oh, look
Speaker 1: we are our definition of beauty is expanding. But no, actually,
Speaker 1: I think we're just now co modifying non white beauty
Speaker 1: in this instance. I mean one Marie Claire beauty and
Speaker 1: health director that they talked to described our quote unquote
Speaker 1: obsession with rich brown skin complexions, which have boosted the
Speaker 1: sales of self tanning products. What but has that done
Speaker 1: anything for the day to day lives of people who
Speaker 1: actually walk around with rich brown skin complexions. No, so
Speaker 1: what good is that doing anybody except for pale skinned
Speaker 1: women like you and me, who can get tanner faster
Speaker 1: if we want to. Yeah, it makes it okay. And
Speaker 1: if you happen to be a white person listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast and don't exactly grasp not just the wrongness
Speaker 1: of this kind of exotic sizing of non white beauty,
Speaker 1: but don't even grasp the ridiculous nous of it, because
Speaker 1: it does get ridiculous at a point. Let me just offer, uh,
Speaker 1: this quote from this satirical tumbler called Exotic White Girls.
Speaker 1: So I'm a post they wrote called the Beautiful White
Speaker 1: Dialect and it goes, I love how beautiful and simple
Speaker 1: the exotic white dialect is because it has less words
Speaker 1: and lacks any logical grammar. It just sounds so peaceful,
Speaker 1: calming and real. You can just feel the emotion when
Speaker 1: you listen to them speak. It varies from try to try,
Speaker 1: but throughout the White Motherlands it's basically the same. I
Speaker 1: took a two week service trip to build a McDonald's
Speaker 1: with authentic white food and live with an authentic white family,
Speaker 1: So I know, and did you know they have twenty
Speaker 1: different words for coffee but no words for self aware?
Speaker 1: Like I know. When I read that, Caroline, a little
Speaker 1: lightbulb also went off in my head of Oh, this
Speaker 1: is what it sounds like when we talk like that
Speaker 1: about other people. Yeah, because that language and I mean,
Speaker 1: I've already said this, but I mean that language says
Speaker 1: nothing about the people you're talking about. When you when
Speaker 1: you're saying something, calling someone exotic or what have you,
Speaker 1: it says everything about you and your perception and the
Speaker 1: way that you're using language and the way that you
Speaker 1: think it's okay to use language. And I do think
Speaker 1: that overall, are collective perception of what is beautiful is broadening,
Speaker 1: but I think we still have progress to make in
Speaker 1: terms of how we talk about it and how we
Speaker 1: consume it and our relationship with it and also with
Speaker 1: the people that we're talking about. I just think that
Speaker 1: um patting ourselves on the back for for instance, Lupetea
Speaker 1: and Ngo, an incredible beautiful actress, Yes, receiving an Academy
Speaker 1: award and saying Okay, well progress is here, let's go
Speaker 1: about our day is very shortsighted. So we're definitely interested
Speaker 1: to hear from our listeners on this topic. Are you
Speaker 1: a woman of color who has been called exotic? Has
Speaker 1: someone ever said to you know where you really from
Speaker 1: in conversation? Yeah, let us know all of your your
Speaker 1: thoughts and experiences with us, because I think this is
Speaker 1: a conversation that needs to happen more. I don't think
Speaker 1: that we talk about it enough and we really want
Speaker 1: to hear from you, So please let us know your thoughts.
Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can
Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast asked and messages
Speaker 1: on Facebook as well, and we have a couple of
Speaker 1: messages to share with you right now. Well, I've got
Speaker 1: to let her here. From Maggie, in response to episode
Speaker 1: on gay wedding traditions, she writes, I'm in the process
Speaker 1: of planning my gay wedding with my fiance, So, first
Speaker 1: of all, Maggie, congrats, she continues, you asked how gay
Speaker 1: couples feel about straight people refusing to marry until we
Speaker 1: have the same rights. I can only speak for myself.
Speaker 1: I'm not even speaking from my partner because we haven't
Speaker 1: even really discussed it. But it doesn't matter to me
Speaker 1: at all. I want everyone to be married who wants
Speaker 1: to be married. I suppose it just depends on the intentions.
Speaker 1: It's become a joke that men will say that to
Speaker 1: avoid marriage. Whether that really happens, though, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I live in a state where gay marriage is legal
Speaker 1: in Delaware, and I live in an area of that
Speaker 1: state with a high concentration of gay people. I've never
Speaker 1: personally been the victim of discrimination. I'm extremely fortunate. My
Speaker 1: family and friends and even strangers have been nothing but supportive.
Speaker 1: I have twenty nieces and nephews, and all of whom
Speaker 1: are old enough to understand know that I'm gay and
Speaker 1: can't wait for their aunt Amy to finally become their
Speaker 1: aunt Amy. I've been a bridesmaid for I think demestrate weddings,
Speaker 1: and therefore a part of all those plans. And I
Speaker 1: know that our wedding looks almost exactly like their's. The
Speaker 1: only thing we've had to question about is who will
Speaker 1: walk down the aisle first. All the other questions are
Speaker 1: the same ones any couples have. What song will we
Speaker 1: dance to? Where will everyone stay? What time will the
Speaker 1: ceremony be? Where I live? Those are the most important questions. Well, Maggie,
Speaker 1: good luck with your wedding and best wishes. I have
Speaker 1: a letter here from Kate that is also in response
Speaker 1: to our Gay Wedding podcast. She says, I was at
Speaker 1: an HR conference listening to a panel discussing relocation benefits
Speaker 1: for employees. One of the speakers from one of the
Speaker 1: biggest US insurance firms stated, our high value talent is
Speaker 1: expected to buy homes. A sign of maturity and readiness
Speaker 1: for leadership at our company is having the home, the wife,
Speaker 1: and the kids. If you don't do these things, you'll
Speaker 1: be passed over for promotion. I was first shocked and
Speaker 1: HR professional would openly admit to having a policy of
Speaker 1: discrimination against employees with alternative lifestyles and by that I
Speaker 1: mean single people who may not have found the right
Speaker 1: person yet. But also by saying these heteronormative standards are
Speaker 1: a prerequisite for success, this company conveys to their gay
Speaker 1: staff that they will be discriminated against, irrespective of their
Speaker 1: legal ability to participate in these expectations. As we know, statistically,
Speaker 1: gay people are of lower income than straight people. Perhaps
Speaker 1: this is not only because they are denied marital benefits
Speaker 1: which help individuals to accumulate wealth, but also because of
Speaker 1: workplace discrimination owing to their marital status. Quite the vicious circle.
Speaker 1: Quite indeed, Kate, thank you for writing in, and thanks
Speaker 1: to everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is where you can send us
Speaker 1: your letters. You can also find links to all of
Speaker 1: our social media, all of our podcasts, including all the
Speaker 1: source is for our podcast episodes, as well blog posts
Speaker 1: and videos over at the One Stuff Sminty Shop Stuff
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com For more on this
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot com