Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House Supports
Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and
Speaker 1: I'm Caroline. And since this is unofficially wedding week or officially,
Speaker 1: should we say officially totally officially, Yeah, it's officially wedding
Speaker 1: week on Stuff Mom Never Told You because this is
Speaker 1: the beginning of June, which is also the beginning of
Speaker 1: wedding season. That's right. And earlier in the week we
Speaker 1: talked about gay weddings, and today we have a fantastic
Speaker 1: interview to share with you from the writer Jen Doll,
Speaker 1: who recently published a hilarious memoir called Save the Date. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Her book actually stemmed out of a post on The
Speaker 1: Hairpin a couple of years ago where she basically recounted
Speaker 1: all of the weddings she had attended. And I read
Speaker 1: it in awe because I mean, I've I've been to
Speaker 1: a good chunk of weddings, but nowhere near the number
Speaker 1: that she has attended. Yeah, she's been too. I think
Speaker 1: there were seventeen listed in that Hairpin post, and she's
Speaker 1: been to even more than that. And so in the interview,
Speaker 1: one of the first questions I asked her is how
Speaker 1: she's managed to go to so many weddings. Um, do
Speaker 1: you remember the first wedding you went to? Caroline? Oh? Gosh, Um,
Speaker 1: probably my uncle No. Oh, No, I was the flower
Speaker 1: girl for the wedding of um We. We grew up
Speaker 1: next to a Greek family in Marietta, or I grew
Speaker 1: up next to a Greek family and I was their
Speaker 1: flower girl for one of their daughters. And it's funny
Speaker 1: because you know, everybody in the entire church had really
Speaker 1: dark hair, and I was here's like this little blonde
Speaker 1: girl walking down the aisle, you know, throwing flowers out,
Speaker 1: and people are like, who did she belong to? But
Speaker 1: you didn't care? But I didn't care. No, But yeah,
Speaker 1: that was That was my first wedding experience. The first
Speaker 1: one that I remember was when my oldest brother, who's
Speaker 1: significantly older than I am, got married and I was
Speaker 1: a bridesmaid. And it felt like prom for me because
Speaker 1: there was the whole process of getting fitted for a
Speaker 1: dress and doing hair and getting to walk down the
Speaker 1: aisle with my very cute soon to be sister in
Speaker 1: laws a younger brother. Saought it was a very big deal,
Speaker 1: the only downside of which was that it happened in
Speaker 1: August in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and thus it was a
Speaker 1: swamp outside, hot swamp. My mother says, I'm not allowed
Speaker 1: to get married in the summer. Yeah, because she'll be
Speaker 1: too hot. Yeah, that's the funny thing about how many
Speaker 1: summer weddings there are. It's just I've sat at an
Speaker 1: outdoor wedding in Atlanta in July and melted. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember coming in. It was in June. It was a
Speaker 1: June outdoor wedding a couple of years ago, and I
Speaker 1: came in completely sunburned. Thanks a lot. Well, I probably does.
Speaker 1: My fault should have put on sunscreen. Let's be real.
Speaker 1: Let's be real. Well, and since speaking of real, let's
Speaker 1: toss that a few relevant wedding season statistics, because Jen
Speaker 1: dolls memoirs Save the Date is all about her experience
Speaker 1: as being a wedding guest. So for a few numbers
Speaker 1: to kick things off in the two thousand thirteen wedding season,
Speaker 1: according to the Wedding Site, than not the average number
Speaker 1: of wedding guests hundred and thirty eight. Really big wedding
Speaker 1: is it? I have no I have no concept that
Speaker 1: feels like a lot to me. Yeah, I well, I
Speaker 1: know that one thirty eight is probably low compared to
Speaker 1: some people out there, or it feels low compared to
Speaker 1: some people out there who I know. For instance, my
Speaker 1: friend her in laws got kind of carried away with
Speaker 1: the guest list, so I think she wanted more like
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty eight, but I think ended up
Speaker 1: with closer to three. Who who I know. Well, well,
Speaker 1: so you have to spend a lot of money for
Speaker 1: all of those guests and all of that fun time
Speaker 1: that you're having. But if you're do in in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: which is the most expensive place to get married, you're
Speaker 1: going to spend an average of eighty six thousand, nine
Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen dollars. That's nuts. That's nuts, um. And
Speaker 1: apparently one of the trends of late is that spending
Speaker 1: on your wedding guests is increasing. So well, maybe part
Speaker 1: of the explanation for that eighty six thousand dollar tab
Speaker 1: in Manhattan at least is the fact that spending on
Speaker 1: wedding guests is going up. So not only are people
Speaker 1: who are getting married spending a lot of money on
Speaker 1: a venue and dresses and texas, but now it's also
Speaker 1: guest entertainment. Apparently, in two thousand thirteen couples spent an
Speaker 1: average two two dollars per guest. Yeah, and this whole
Speaker 1: guest entertainment category is apparently growing at at rapid speed.
Speaker 1: In nearly one and three couples provided additional guest entertainment,
Speaker 1: compared with just eleven percent in two thousand line. So
Speaker 1: is this like, does this include the favors, the band,
Speaker 1: the I don't know. That's what I'm thinking, And I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and throw this out there, Caroline,
Speaker 1: for people listening who might be planning a wedding, if
Speaker 1: you want to integrate a live podcast or a fee
Speaker 1: into your guest entertainment, we will come. I I work
Speaker 1: for food, I do know. I will work for food
Speaker 1: and cash wants. Or maybe if we could just do
Speaker 1: like a blind selection of one of the gifts on
Speaker 1: the wedding gifts, Yeah, we could totally. We could totally
Speaker 1: do that, so just let us know. But more importantly,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to share this interview that I got
Speaker 1: to do with jendall Um. There is, by the way,
Speaker 1: some some background noise because we actually chatted outside at
Speaker 1: a cafe in Fort Green. Um. And so don't mind
Speaker 1: the noise too much, folks. It's it's not too bad,
Speaker 1: but just it's more like an outdoor podcast. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: like we're all together outside at a cafe. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I just like, close your eyes and picture Kristen and
Speaker 1: Jendall surrounded by hundreds of podcast listeners just staring at them,
Speaker 1: just staring at us, not creepily at all. So, with
Speaker 1: no further ado, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce
Speaker 1: you to Jen Doll so Gendall. For people who aren't
Speaker 1: aware of Save the Date and your Wedding attended tabit.
Speaker 1: How many weddings have you been to? Just to start
Speaker 1: off at this point, I've been to approximately thirty um,
Speaker 1: and I think there could be more that I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but thirty are the ones that I can actually count. Um.
Speaker 1: The book deals with seventeen weddings because I joked that
Speaker 1: like otherwise I would have been writing the War in
Speaker 1: piece of weddings like that was in page book. We
Speaker 1: had to cut some of them out to make it,
Speaker 1: you know, a narrative arc that people could actually read
Speaker 1: and not have to carry around like some sort of
Speaker 1: giant home. So how does one go about getting invited
Speaker 1: to the wedding and also not experience the wedding pictinue
Speaker 1: because it seems like in a book you don't reach
Speaker 1: a point of wedding exhaustion or bankruptcy related to having
Speaker 1: to buy some many wedding gifts, right, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess to some extent, you know, for me, my my
Speaker 1: feeling about weddings changed as I kept going to weddings
Speaker 1: in my lifetime, and some of the bankruptcy stuff that
Speaker 1: maybe I should have thought about more early on in
Speaker 1: my wedding going life wasn't an issue for me. I
Speaker 1: was not that I didn't not that I had unlimited funds,
Speaker 1: but simply that I thought if I was invited to
Speaker 1: a wedding, I should go to a wedding, and it
Speaker 1: was such an important thing and I would never miss
Speaker 1: any of these friends weddings. UM. Later I started to realize,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I wish maybe someone had told me back then,
Speaker 1: you don't have to actually go to every wedding you're
Speaker 1: invited to. UM. There are some that maybe you should
Speaker 1: pass up for various reasons, But at the time I
Speaker 1: just went to all of them, and I thirty weddings
Speaker 1: in a lifetime. Really isn't even the highest number of
Speaker 1: weddings I think people go to. I've talked to people
Speaker 1: now who were like, I've been invited to thirteen this year,
Speaker 1: and I've been to twenty five and I'm twenty three,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my goodness. So I'm definitely not
Speaker 1: the Guinness Book of World record holder for the most
Speaker 1: wedding attendances. But I do think that I've felt so
Speaker 1: many different emotions at all of the weddings I've been to,
Speaker 1: and also I have gone to them in many different states,
Speaker 1: you know, states of life, like as an unemployed person
Speaker 1: in my thirties, and as a person without a boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and as a person with a boyfriend bringing the boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and and I just really thought about how it makes
Speaker 1: such a difference. You know, every wedding you to go
Speaker 1: to is different because of the state you're in and
Speaker 1: the age you're in and the things you're feeling. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: speaking of sort of the emotional experience that is wedding attendance,
Speaker 1: one thing that jumped out to me when I was
Speaker 1: reading the book was when you say that we're vulnerable
Speaker 1: at weddings, So I was wondering if you could talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that and how weddings in particular
Speaker 1: make us kind of vulnerable. I think of it as
Speaker 1: like prom for adults, um. And it's one of the
Speaker 1: few times in adult life that we get to repeat
Speaker 1: these um, really orchestrated, formalized affairs and we dress up
Speaker 1: and photos are taken and it's very important. It happens
Speaker 1: less regularly than a birthday maybe, um and but it's
Speaker 1: and they're always different. And I just think when we're
Speaker 1: going to these things where love and romance and togetherness
Speaker 1: and a spirit of bonding not just with a couple
Speaker 1: but of the entire group of people there, um, we
Speaker 1: can't help but feeling really heightened emotional states at the
Speaker 1: same time. And it's all very dramatic. It's like the
Speaker 1: Oscars or a movie or you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So we feel vulnerable because when we see people doing
Speaker 1: this thing, we think about where we are in life too,
Speaker 1: and maybe we don't measure up. And I think it's
Speaker 1: very hard ever to feel like you've quite done it.
Speaker 1: You're you've got there, You're great now, You're there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with your life, there's nothing more you want Um,
Speaker 1: the funny thing is, I'm sure that people who are
Speaker 1: getting married feel the same way. It's not that just
Speaker 1: getting married means suddenly you're there and everything you've ever
Speaker 1: wanted has been a tie. If you keep wanting things,
Speaker 1: you keep growing. You're vulnerable as humans because you have
Speaker 1: desires and emotions and you know you're living life and
Speaker 1: life is complicated. So but I do think that weddings
Speaker 1: presented this really interesting ecosystem upon which to lay out
Speaker 1: the different emotions that we feel, and our vulnerability is
Speaker 1: to know whether it's that we just broke up with
Speaker 1: someone and now we have to go to a wedding
Speaker 1: and we feel really complicated about that and possibly fraught,
Speaker 1: and possibly we're gonna get really drunk. There's definitely the
Speaker 1: benefit to the open bar aspect. But yeah, Um, one
Speaker 1: of speaking of those like fraught emotions that can come
Speaker 1: up with weddings, one of the most heartbreaking anecdotes in
Speaker 1: a way was about your friendship with Jenny, who ended
Speaker 1: up wearing a guy that you really didn't like. And
Speaker 1: I think from my conversations with girlfriends as we get older,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a common thing of girls sort of
Speaker 1: you know, hang in for the long term with guys
Speaker 1: that we don't think you're the best for them, right, So,
Speaker 1: looking back now on your experience with that, what's your
Speaker 1: advice when you know you're supposed to celebrate their love
Speaker 1: but you are an exactly a fan of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was like probably the hardest thing to write about.
Speaker 1: I was much more comfortable writing about my mistakes, my
Speaker 1: drunken mistakes, my foibles. And I was writing about this
Speaker 1: friendship that I lost because, um, friends are some of
Speaker 1: the most important people we have in our lives, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes more than romantic partners, um. And we don't expect
Speaker 1: to lose friends, yet inevitably, in growing up we grow
Speaker 1: apart with some of them. And I included that part
Speaker 1: of the book because it is to me a universal thing.
Speaker 1: I'm maybe not all of us have been have lost
Speaker 1: friends through the people they've married, but I think all
Speaker 1: of us have had an experience with a friendship where
Speaker 1: we've grown apart because of a romantic relationship on one
Speaker 1: side or the other. And we don't always love our
Speaker 1: friends husbands or boyfriends. UM. And so in writing about it,
Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted to get across how it
Speaker 1: made me feel and I think that what I should
Speaker 1: have done differently, you know, kind of like as a
Speaker 1: lesson to people, maybe if they read about it, they'll
Speaker 1: feel a little better about what has happened to them
Speaker 1: as well. But also um that that honesty is such
Speaker 1: an important thing, you know, you hear that it's kind
Speaker 1: of like whip service, But like, really, when people are
Speaker 1: heading into these grand events in life and and weddings,
Speaker 1: we tend to think that we're supposed to just stop
Speaker 1: talking about anything bad. Um And I think for me,
Speaker 1: it was very difficult to oppressed the stuff that I
Speaker 1: knew and to not address it. And I wish that
Speaker 1: we had just found a way to communicate about it,
Speaker 1: because I think that would have helped immeasurably. Maybe we
Speaker 1: would have grown apart anyway. But there was a kind
Speaker 1: of like repression of the feelings and the story, you know,
Speaker 1: like we weren't talking about the same stuff anymore that
Speaker 1: had really sustained our friendship and being honest with each
Speaker 1: other and talking about our our relationship difficulties. It was
Speaker 1: like that all got covered up because there was this
Speaker 1: wedding on the horizon. And I just think it's important
Speaker 1: to keep talking about those things in as honest and
Speaker 1: kind way as possible, and also not to just get
Speaker 1: really drunk and then start to address it, because that's
Speaker 1: never going to go well. Like don't address it at
Speaker 1: the wedding, which is something that I kind of did, um,
Speaker 1: but but really try to like be upfront about what
Speaker 1: you're feeling and then also what your friend is feeling
Speaker 1: and acknowledge that we're different people and we can feel
Speaker 1: different things and we can choose different partners. Um, we
Speaker 1: can't decide who are friends Mary, but we can at
Speaker 1: least decide how we're going to behave with regard to
Speaker 1: that and like whether these friendships are worth keeping and
Speaker 1: how we want to try to do that. And So
Speaker 1: for someone who's now, you know, you've been to so
Speaker 1: many weddings, so we also hear so much about weddings, marriage,
Speaker 1: the wedding industrial complex sort of how do you square
Speaker 1: the two? Is it's like fine to have these like
Speaker 1: indulgent celebrations of ourselves. Where are we reinforcing the patriarchy?
Speaker 1: Where's the line of that? Yeah? I think the line
Speaker 1: is really blurry, and I think we have to the
Speaker 1: most feminist thing we can do is make the decisions
Speaker 1: for ourselves as fully aware, autonomous, independent, smart people. Um.
Speaker 1: I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a grand wedding.
Speaker 1: But if you're simply going through the motions because you
Speaker 1: think that this is something that you're supposed to do
Speaker 1: and you're not really being self aware about it, I
Speaker 1: think that's a problem. I think you could be a
Speaker 1: problem for your relationship too. But UM, I think it's
Speaker 1: hard because one of the chapters in the book that
Speaker 1: really addressed this was about my parents marriage and about
Speaker 1: why they got married, and about how marriage and weddings
Speaker 1: have changed from the time that they got married to now, um,
Speaker 1: and how it's become less of unexpected. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't have to get married um. And especially if you're
Speaker 1: a woman or a man living in like an urban area,
Speaker 1: you're probably getting married a lot later than your parents
Speaker 1: got married and you can do those things and the judgments.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe there's some stigma and people are still
Speaker 1: being like, oh, what's wrong with her, she's not married,
Speaker 1: she's thirty eight, But like, it's far less than it
Speaker 1: ever was, and you do have the freedom to choose.
Speaker 1: So I think that to be a strong feminist you
Speaker 1: need to actively choose um and do the things that
Speaker 1: you think are going to be good for you. Um.
Speaker 1: I also think that if you're having a wedding and
Speaker 1: you have single women who are attending your wedding, like,
Speaker 1: be careful about the bouquet toss because it does seem
Speaker 1: to perpetuate certain stereotypes about how we all want this thing,
Speaker 1: and maybe we don't all want this thing, and certainly
Speaker 1: we don't all want to like grapple for some flowers
Speaker 1: that were thrown at us. I mean it's like maybe
Speaker 1: the most undignified tradition that it still carries through. Although
Speaker 1: which is worse the garter belt, oh god, or the flowers.
Speaker 1: The garter belt might be worse because it's so sexualized.
Speaker 1: But also, I mean maybe I approve that more because
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, for surely the bride and groom are
Speaker 1: probably going to have sex. That's great, um, But like
Speaker 1: the bouquet toss and the assumption that this is the
Speaker 1: pinnacle of what a woman's life should be, so we're
Speaker 1: all going to fight for this bouquet to be the
Speaker 1: next to go down that aisle is to me rather demeaning.
Speaker 1: Maybe if all of your bridesmaids and all of your
Speaker 1: single women friends are like really dying to do it,
Speaker 1: then go for it. But again, I think that the
Speaker 1: other thing about being taking an independent kind of approach
Speaker 1: to weddings and a pro woman, pro man, pro everybody,
Speaker 1: pro grown ups approach to weddings is that we all
Speaker 1: can do whatever we want and that's okay. But again,
Speaker 1: be open about it to yourself and to your friends
Speaker 1: and family. And now back to the show. One thing
Speaker 1: I really appreciated about the book was that there wasn't
Speaker 1: the rom com esque narrative park of you having to
Speaker 1: end up by the end of the book going down
Speaker 1: the aisle yourself and just out of curiosity. Was that
Speaker 1: something when you're going through the publishing process that maybe,
Speaker 1: like editors were expecting you kind of requested to sort
Speaker 1: of massage the narratives. My publisher is awesome, and they
Speaker 1: would never have done that, I mean, thank god. I'm
Speaker 1: sure that that is something that people have experience, and
Speaker 1: I think that it might be a more hollywoodization of it,
Speaker 1: you know, like with the occasional I don't know. There's
Speaker 1: been like a few talks that I've had with potential
Speaker 1: movie people and and they seem to be a little
Speaker 1: more pushing or rom COMI you know, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's just what we expect in rom coms, that
Speaker 1: you're going to end up with someone in the end.
Speaker 1: I I was with someone in the end of the book,
Speaker 1: although you wouldn't know it from the last chapter necessarily,
Speaker 1: Oh god, this is a spoiler. But um but I
Speaker 1: really wanted to have the storyline not be about ending
Speaker 1: up with someone romantically, but about choosing to be the
Speaker 1: you that you most want to be and knowing that
Speaker 1: whatever state you decide, you know, cared up or single,
Speaker 1: it's good. It's like you're you're you're experiencing life, you're
Speaker 1: having the adventures, and you're like living the lights that
Speaker 1: you have whether you're married it or not, and and
Speaker 1: both of those things are good. So I definitely it
Speaker 1: was a conscious choice not to end with some sort
Speaker 1: of wedding. Also, like I wasn't proposed to at the end,
Speaker 1: so it's a it's a memoir, so it had to
Speaker 1: be true. Um, but yeah, there was The last wedding
Speaker 1: I go to in the book involves a guy I
Speaker 1: was dating and going to this wedding with his friends
Speaker 1: where I didn't really know anyone besides him, and how
Speaker 1: that shifted my perception on bringing my bringing dates to
Speaker 1: weddings like throughout the course of my life. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's interesting, Like this is another side
Speaker 1: of it. And I think that that's something that I
Speaker 1: hope people get in the book also, that there are
Speaker 1: always different sides to these experiences and we don't always
Speaker 1: we're not always aware of them until we experience them ourselves,
Speaker 1: or maybe we read a book about it and that
Speaker 1: can get us to start talking about it too. Um
Speaker 1: and sort of along those lines, Uh, in your experience,
Speaker 1: do you think that we, especially I as women, are
Speaker 1: coming more to a place to where the societal idea
Speaker 1: of what happily ever after looks like is evolving beyond
Speaker 1: just well you've got to be married at some point, ladies.
Speaker 1: I certainly hope so. UM. I do think that there
Speaker 1: are still beliefs in stereotypes and um things that continue
Speaker 1: to exist, Like there is kind of this default notion
Speaker 1: that we should end up paired off with people. However,
Speaker 1: I think that there are all of these new ways
Speaker 1: of being paired off and partnered and maybe even just
Speaker 1: having a really strong support group of friends. Um. And
Speaker 1: there are a lot of great writers who've been talking
Speaker 1: about how people live single lives for a really long time,
Speaker 1: and how those lives often are happier and more productive
Speaker 1: and more tied to the community and things like that.
Speaker 1: Um I think that if anything, just the progression and
Speaker 1: the openness which wild with which we look at relationships
Speaker 1: in society is it's impressive, and it's like we're moving
Speaker 1: forward in that degree, and I think that's really good. Well,
Speaker 1: it sort of along those same same lines in terms
Speaker 1: of us moving forward. One of the chapters in the
Speaker 1: book is about going to you know, the gay wedding
Speaker 1: in New York that Mayor Bloomberg officiated, And we actually
Speaker 1: did a podcast a couple of weeks ago on gay
Speaker 1: weddings and how they're often treated as this trend where
Speaker 1: it's something new and yet still the same tradition. And
Speaker 1: the question we were asking ourselves in the podcast was
Speaker 1: sort of when we'll just a wedding via wedding. UM So,
Speaker 1: just for your take, is someone who's been immersed in
Speaker 1: wedding culture by being just so many I mean, how
Speaker 1: do you think that this inclusion of same sex marriage
Speaker 1: will have a lasting impact on the tradition of weddings.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I think a wedding will never
Speaker 1: be just a wedding because they are too orchestrated and
Speaker 1: emotionally I don't know, fraud, but also significant and uh,
Speaker 1: we place a really high importance on them in society.
Speaker 1: I think that with gay weddings, it's just amazing that
Speaker 1: we can all have different kinds of weddings, and and
Speaker 1: they can even look the same but have different couplings
Speaker 1: and mixed sort of relationship types and UM. One thing
Speaker 1: that was really fun with my book is that looking
Speaker 1: back at it, UM, there there were gay marriages, and
Speaker 1: there were interracial marriages, and there were um marriages of
Speaker 1: people who were in their early twenties and marriages of
Speaker 1: people who were in their later thirties. And I really
Speaker 1: like that there are all of these different possibilities and combinations. UM.
Speaker 1: I just think with gay marriage, we're probably just gonna
Speaker 1: see more marriages, and that's great as long as they're
Speaker 1: good marriages exactly. So what is something than that going
Speaker 1: to all these weddings has perhaps taught you about yourself
Speaker 1: and about your relationships romance. I think that when we
Speaker 1: grow up, and I'm speaking as someone who's a woman
Speaker 1: so like as as little girls, you know, we think
Speaker 1: about weddings in this very particular way, or we tend to.
Speaker 1: Not all of us do, but a lot of us do,
Speaker 1: because what's put out before us in society are like
Speaker 1: these pictures in these um storylines and the narrative of
Speaker 1: like a bride and groom walking down the aisle, and
Speaker 1: how that's what we want to have to And I
Speaker 1: think in going to so many weddings and seeing that
Speaker 1: they exists in so many different forms, it was like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to do it that way. There's always
Speaker 1: kind of like a weird disconnect with me. I think,
Speaker 1: thinking this is what I'm supposed to do, but like
Speaker 1: do I really want to do that? And doesn't have
Speaker 1: to look this way? And um, can you like have
Speaker 1: love without a wedding? Can you? Just because I think
Speaker 1: love is more important than weddings honestly, But um, and
Speaker 1: I guess that that idea that we can that we're
Speaker 1: living our lives, the whole lives that we live. It's
Speaker 1: not like it starts or stops when we get married.
Speaker 1: That's just another component. And that if we can approach
Speaker 1: everything with kind of as much openness and like open
Speaker 1: heartedness and spirit of adventure, then we just lived more
Speaker 1: enjoyable lives. Um, and to kind of not be I
Speaker 1: guess another lesson is just to not repress our feelings,
Speaker 1: but to try to address them, especially before intense moments
Speaker 1: and perhaps wedding exactly. And yeah, so one thing I
Speaker 1: also lived about the book was how it sprinkled with
Speaker 1: all of your your wedding tips. Uh, if you had
Speaker 1: one wedding tip to bestow upon listeners, what would it be?
Speaker 1: Always get the French fries because um, and I mean
Speaker 1: that metaphorically as well as specifically. But you know, there's
Speaker 1: a scene in my book when I'm hungover after rehearsal
Speaker 1: dinner and we've ordered food and I think I can't
Speaker 1: remember if I get them or not. But the tip
Speaker 1: is to get them because you just want to experience
Speaker 1: life as wholly as you can, and you know, barring
Speaker 1: any sort of French fry allergy, should probably get the
Speaker 1: French fries. It's a good tip. So in September, I'm
Speaker 1: officiating my brother's wedding, which is um funny because in
Speaker 1: the book, you know, my brother and his fiance are mentioned.
Speaker 1: They've been engaged for several years, and I think I
Speaker 1: have some comment about how, um, my parents have stopped
Speaker 1: asking when I don't know if this book was a
Speaker 1: push to get them to actually do it. They probably
Speaker 1: would hate it if I said that, But um, they
Speaker 1: are doing it, which is really exciting, and they've asked
Speaker 1: me to officiate, which is going to be a new role,
Speaker 1: a new wedding guest role that I've never gotten to do,
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about. So obviously, since it's a
Speaker 1: memoir as well, get pretty personal and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: some people's identities might be masked a little bit. But
Speaker 1: how was the reception of the book from say, ex
Speaker 1: boy friends, friends that you might have had difficult who's
Speaker 1: with which family members? Um? Some of those stories, I mean,
Speaker 1: all names are changed except for my immediate family members,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to respect that when when you're invited
Speaker 1: to a wedding, you're the people inviting, you probably don't
Speaker 1: think you're going to write a book about it. Um.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to be very clear that these were
Speaker 1: my memories and my experiences, and that's a huge point
Speaker 1: of the book, that the experience at a wedding is
Speaker 1: not the same for everyone, and it's not always this
Speaker 1: you know, Lacy walked down the aisle sort of story
Speaker 1: that we see perpetuated in movies and TV. It can
Speaker 1: be many different things, so I just I wanted to
Speaker 1: be clear about that, and I wanted to be respectful
Speaker 1: of the subjects from the characters. UM. I gave most
Speaker 1: of the brides and grooms a chance to read early
Speaker 1: drafts of the chapters as a fact checking move as
Speaker 1: well as you know, f y, I, this is happening.
Speaker 1: I hope you're okay with it, and the majority of
Speaker 1: them wanted to read, and also we're really really excited
Speaker 1: about it. UM. I think the other thing about the
Speaker 1: book is that it's really not any kind of snarky
Speaker 1: expose on weddings. UM. You may people may have that perception,
Speaker 1: but really it's about most of the weddings in the
Speaker 1: book were incredibly enjoyable. I may have made some mistakes
Speaker 1: of them, but they were pretty lovely weddings, and most
Speaker 1: of the couples are still together and very happy, and
Speaker 1: that to me is really moving, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: um kind of honor them in writing the book, not
Speaker 1: tell them that they're dirks or that their cakes tasted bad.
Speaker 1: You know. UM. I did also reach out to you
Speaker 1: some ex is, including one who is probably the longest
Speaker 1: term x I had. His name is Jason in the book,
Speaker 1: and he was like, oh my god, I'm so excited,
Speaker 1: which is amazing. UM. And he's always a really great guy.
Speaker 1: And it's just an example of the kind of people
Speaker 1: who they might be great people, they might be great friends,
Speaker 1: but maybe you're just not supposed to end up with them,
Speaker 1: which is I think a good storyline to remind ourselves
Speaker 1: of we haven't messed up by not getting married to
Speaker 1: those people. We've actually done them and us a service
Speaker 1: by admitting it. You know, you need to be with
Speaker 1: the right people. Um. Now he's married and has a
Speaker 1: baby and has a dog, and it's like super happy.
Speaker 1: And also it was like, this is amazing. I've never
Speaker 1: been in a book before, so that was really fun.
Speaker 1: I UM, I do worry about some of the other characters,
Speaker 1: but because not everyone is always depicted in the most
Speaker 1: perfect way. But I think that of all the bad
Speaker 1: characters in the book, I'm probably the one who has
Speaker 1: depicted the worst. So I acknowledge that. And I also
Speaker 1: um made sure that identities were kind of shielded in
Speaker 1: other cases, because the point is not to you know,
Speaker 1: de story someone's life or anything like that. It's just
Speaker 1: to tell an honest story. And the things that I experienced.
Speaker 1: One thinking of that honesty, was it ever challenging the
Speaker 1: process of writing the book to either sort of push
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit more forward, to be more honest
Speaker 1: and open with the reader, and also maybe giving you
Speaker 1: pause about things that you had done but maybe you
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily proud of, which you're also very honest about
Speaker 1: in the book. I think I went into like a
Speaker 1: weird view state law writing it, and I didn't actually
Speaker 1: think about other people reading it, which might be necessary
Speaker 1: for any kind of memoir writing, where if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about people reading it and how they're going to judge
Speaker 1: you for it, you couldn't do it. And I just
Speaker 1: was like kind of in this protected, really focused state,
Speaker 1: and I wrote what I remember doing and feeling, and
Speaker 1: I tried to be totally. I guess it's interesting because
Speaker 1: when you write a memoir, you capture yourself in a
Speaker 1: particular time and place, and there are people who have
Speaker 1: commented things like Amazon commentors or things like that where
Speaker 1: they're like I think Jen has a drinking problem, like
Speaker 1: get help. And I think that that's really amusing and
Speaker 1: kind of not very nice, but because but it's also
Speaker 1: a little bit shortsighted because clearly I wrote this book.
Speaker 1: I put together weddings, um where there were open bars.
Speaker 1: If you look at my whole life, I wasn't drinking
Speaker 1: the way I drink at weddings every day, because that
Speaker 1: would have been probably a really hard way to write
Speaker 1: a book. UM. And the the sentiments that anyone gets
Speaker 1: from a memoir are exactly what the author has put forward. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's really interesting to me that that's just like
Speaker 1: how memoir works. UM. I I didn't think about reviewer
Speaker 1: comments or negative reactions when I was writing it, because again,
Speaker 1: that would have been probably devastating to think about. And
Speaker 1: it was only until the memoir was about to be
Speaker 1: out I think that I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: people are gonna think I'm a jerk. And you know,
Speaker 1: if they do, they do, and I have been a
Speaker 1: joke in my life. So, UM, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just you just live and deal with it, I guess exactly. UM.
Speaker 1: I realized that this is horribly clichiate question, but I
Speaker 1: do have to ask if you were to have a
Speaker 1: wedding in the future. Is everyone asking you this question
Speaker 1: now about this book? If you're gonna have a wedding
Speaker 1: at some point, do you have an idea of what
Speaker 1: it would be able to just go to the courthouse
Speaker 1: called a day have a big, black, lavish affair. Um.
Speaker 1: I've been asked this question a couple of times, and
Speaker 1: I actually love it because it's really funny. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would definitely have my wedding at a circus and
Speaker 1: ride in on an elephant. I'm just kidding. I would.
Speaker 1: I don't really think about what my own wedding would
Speaker 1: look like other than I would probably well, I would
Speaker 1: definitely have an open bar, and I would want to
Speaker 1: have all the people who I love around me for it,
Speaker 1: because I think that's the most powerful thing about weddings
Speaker 1: that you're bringing You're bringing together all of these interwoven
Speaker 1: relationships and friendships and um people to share in this
Speaker 1: experience with you. That's the key thing. And I also
Speaker 1: would want to marry someone who I like, really liked,
Speaker 1: But basically that's it. Well, Gendall, congratulations on saved with
Speaker 1: Date and thanks so much for meeting with me in
Speaker 1: Brooklyn and chatting about weddings. Thank you so much, it's
Speaker 1: been really fun. Well, thanks again to Jendall for speaking
Speaker 1: with us. It was awesome to hear her perspective on weddings,
Speaker 1: especially as someone who is a seasoned wedding veteran. Kristen,
Speaker 1: do you have any weddings kind of up? I do
Speaker 1: have a wedding coming up. In fact, one of my
Speaker 1: best guy friends is getting hitched and I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's official or not, but I've been asked to
Speaker 1: be a groomsman, So I'm really hoping I get to
Speaker 1: rock a lady tux. That's really my only condition. We
Speaker 1: haven't really hashed out the details, but if I can't
Speaker 1: wear a tux, I don't think I'm going to do it.
Speaker 1: I love it. No, dude roommate told me that if
Speaker 1: and when he ties the knot with some special lady,
Speaker 1: that he wants me to be a groomsman. Yeah. There
Speaker 1: should not have to we should have to have these
Speaker 1: gender divide. Well again, I just wanna give a huge
Speaker 1: thanks to Jendal for meeting up and chatting in folks.
Speaker 1: I do highly recommend checking out Save the Date if
Speaker 1: you're looking for a fun read this summer, and you
Speaker 1: can find it on Amazon. You can also head over
Speaker 1: to Jendall's website, which is jendal dot com to learn
Speaker 1: more about it and also find other places that you
Speaker 1: can pick it up. And in the meantime time, you
Speaker 1: can also read Jen Doll's work at The Hairpin, Vulture,
Speaker 1: and The Atlantic, as well as other places. She's everywhere, folks,
Speaker 1: and to keep up with her, you can also follow
Speaker 1: her on Twitter at This is Jen Doll. And speaking
Speaker 1: of Twitter, if you want to keep up with Caroline
Speaker 1: and me, you can find us at Mom's Stuff Podcast.
Speaker 1: You can also message us on Facebook as well. Be
Speaker 1: sure to like us while you're at it, and we've
Speaker 1: got a couple of Facebook messages to share with you
Speaker 1: right now. Alrighty well, I have a letter here from
Speaker 1: Brenna talking about our Women in Animation episode. She says,
Speaker 1: first off, thank you. I was thrilled that you did
Speaker 1: an episode on women in Disney Animation. However, I noticed
Speaker 1: that while you talked about present day women in directorial roles,
Speaker 1: you didn't discuss much on those working in the visual
Speaker 1: development slash artistic roles in animation. There happens to be
Speaker 1: a fantastic group of Disney associated artists. Their names are
Speaker 1: Claire Keene, Laura le Beau, Victoria Yang, Helen Ming, ju Chen,
Speaker 1: Brittany Lee, and Lisa Keene that are releasing a book
Speaker 1: of their personal work. I highly recommend checking out their
Speaker 1: work individually, as there aren't many celebrated women artists and
Speaker 1: animation and it's important for other women to have contemporary,
Speaker 1: positive and successful role models in a still male dominated industry.
Speaker 1: The book is called Lovely Ladies of Animation and she
Speaker 1: says that you can go on Amazon and the book
Speaker 1: is available for preorder. So thank you so much, Brenna
Speaker 1: for that heads up. And speaking of books, I've got
Speaker 1: a letter here from Jacqueline asking for feminist book recommendations.
Speaker 1: She writes, I'm writing because I want to see if
Speaker 1: you can help me. My youngest cousin is eighteen and
Speaker 1: about to graduate high school, and she's kind of a
Speaker 1: girly girl. She's going to college in the fall, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to give her a feminist book as a present.
Speaker 1: I don't think feminism is something she really thinks about,
Speaker 1: and I want her to. I want her to value
Speaker 1: herself for more than her looks. So I wanted your
Speaker 1: help and perhaps the help of the listeners and finding
Speaker 1: a book to give her. I want something that's accessible
Speaker 1: to someone who is not familiar with feminism and that
Speaker 1: isn't too heavy on feminist theory. So can you help me?
Speaker 1: Thanks for any help you can give um. So one
Speaker 1: recommendation I have that might seem a little bit random
Speaker 1: is Bossy Pants by Tina Fay, because it's hilarious memoir,
Speaker 1: but it also has a lot of feminist undertones of
Speaker 1: her kind of dealing with her looks and her body
Speaker 1: and choices in school and in balancing work life stuff,
Speaker 1: and so that might be a good kind of sneaky
Speaker 1: primer I think, Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree bossy Pants would
Speaker 1: be a great choice. There's also, and I think we've
Speaker 1: sided this on the podcast a couple of times, but
Speaker 1: Caitlin Moran's book How to Be a Woman. She is
Speaker 1: a funny lady, and so that could be another, maybe
Speaker 1: not maybe a more subtle way for your young cousin
Speaker 1: to get entered us to the ideas. Yeah, approaching feminism
Speaker 1: with humor, because I believe it or not, we do
Speaker 1: have a sense of humor um, and any suggestions from listeners.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear them as well. Shoot us an
Speaker 1: email mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com, or
Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast, or send us a
Speaker 1: message on Facebook because I'd love to get a lot
Speaker 1: of recommendations and compile a list so we can share
Speaker 1: them with everybody over at our website, Stuff from the
Speaker 1: Original You dot com. And speaking of which, if you
Speaker 1: want to find all the links for our social media,
Speaker 1: all of our blog post, videos, and podcasts, there is
Speaker 1: one place to go, and it's stuff Mom Never Told
Speaker 1: You dot com. For more on this and thousands of
Speaker 1: other topics, does it how stuff works dot com