Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?
Speaker 1: From house top works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. This might seem
Speaker 1: like an odd way to start an episode on human trafficking,
Speaker 1: but bear with me, listeners. Molly, last week I felt
Speaker 1: the need to send you a picture. Well, I actually
Speaker 1: it was a video of a cat hugging a teddy bear,
Speaker 1: which was like, yeah, it was great. It was one
Speaker 1: of the cutest things I've ever seen. I love cats,
Speaker 1: you know that. Yes, I love cats doing adorable things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this was a cat holding a teddy bear. And
Speaker 1: you know, I always like to look at cats doing
Speaker 1: cute things when I'm setting down. I think most people,
Speaker 1: you know, it's an instant pick me up. Cute animals
Speaker 1: and cute things. Yeah. And and I did this specifically
Speaker 1: because Molly had out a request for cute animal photos
Speaker 1: and videos because she had been in the trenches researching
Speaker 1: the article how human trafficking works. Pretty intense topic to
Speaker 1: take on. It is. It was not the happiest two
Speaker 1: weeks of my life. That I spent researching this because
Speaker 1: the stories that you read, as you might imagine, are
Speaker 1: so sad um. But it's an important issue specifically for
Speaker 1: our podcast because a lot of people um associate human
Speaker 1: trafficking with women and children. They can be targets for
Speaker 1: for this stuff and actually blowing my mind. And now
Speaker 1: before we came into record this Christian and we got
Speaker 1: an email request for this one. So it's an important
Speaker 1: issue for us to do. I can't promise it's going
Speaker 1: to be our happiest podcast, but if in the middle
Speaker 1: of listening to this podcast you feel the need to
Speaker 1: google kitten holding a Teddy Bear, then you will understand.
Speaker 1: You know, service Kristen provided for me. But if you
Speaker 1: think that oh h means happing this is this is
Speaker 1: gonna be downer, I'm not gonna listen to it. Well
Speaker 1: you need to listen to it because of this. People
Speaker 1: today there are more slaves than there were ever before,
Speaker 1: at any time in human history. I mean a right,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of slaves in human history in
Speaker 1: every country, but they think that right now there's more
Speaker 1: than ever. And I think that we can all remember
Speaker 1: like an Arctic we've read about this happening in Cambodia
Speaker 1: or Thailand or places like that. But when I was
Speaker 1: running this article, I really chose to focus in on
Speaker 1: the US because it's this huge problem in developed countries
Speaker 1: as well as developing ones, and so um, basically, no
Speaker 1: country is immune to human trafficking. Pretty much every country
Speaker 1: either has slaves entering or they have slaves leaving from
Speaker 1: their shoes, so uh, no one's really exempt, including the US.
Speaker 1: In fact, this past year, when the U. S Department
Speaker 1: of State released their Trafficking in Person's Report, they ranked
Speaker 1: the US for the first time because they had sort
Speaker 1: of been like the keeper of the report and they
Speaker 1: and included themselves. But finally they're acknowledging, hey, this is
Speaker 1: a problem in the US as well, and we've got
Speaker 1: to solve it. But I just might imagine it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be easy to solve, and maybe that's what's the
Speaker 1: most depressing thing of all. But we're going to kind
Speaker 1: of talk about what we know so far about this issue, uh,
Speaker 1: and where we have to go in terms of eradicating
Speaker 1: it from the earth right. And one of the main
Speaker 1: reasons why it's such a tough problem to get at
Speaker 1: is because it's it's hard to even identify someone who
Speaker 1: is has been trafficked, who is a victim of human trafficking,
Speaker 1: because if it's labor trafficking, those migrant workers out in
Speaker 1: the field, hey, they might have been coerced forcibly into
Speaker 1: this job. They could have been trafficked. You know, they're
Speaker 1: out among us and we don't know. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about what labor trafficking is,
Speaker 1: what sex trafficking is, and how it all relates to
Speaker 1: human trafficking. Those are sort of the two main uh
Speaker 1: forms of trafficking is labor and sex trafficking. And sex
Speaker 1: trafficking gets all the headlines because what is more scandalous
Speaker 1: or salacious and what sells more papers than uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the story of a poor girl who was told hey,
Speaker 1: I can make you a model, I can make you famous,
Speaker 1: or if you know, she lived in a very poor country.
Speaker 1: She's like, someone tells her, let's go to the US.
Speaker 1: We'll get you a job in a restaurant and it'll
Speaker 1: be great. And then they get to, you know, the
Speaker 1: place they've been promised to go, and they're like, actually,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a prostitute. All your money will go
Speaker 1: to me. I'm going to beat you and control you.
Speaker 1: And you know, the stories are horrifying. It's just you know,
Speaker 1: so much rape and so much you know, for sex.
Speaker 1: And they threaten these girls that they're going to send
Speaker 1: the pictures back to their family. And the poor families
Speaker 1: think they're just off living a great life being a
Speaker 1: waitress somewhere. Um, but they think that that is not
Speaker 1: as common as labor trafficking. So, as Kristen said, you're
Speaker 1: passing by fields. Restaurant and service industries attract a lot
Speaker 1: of labor trafficking victims. Also sweatshops, construction, minds, um and
Speaker 1: even just private home A lot of people are told
Speaker 1: they're going to go work as a housekeeper for a family,
Speaker 1: and they do. It's just you know, they don't earn
Speaker 1: any money, they won't be paid, they're never allowed to
Speaker 1: leave the house, and they have to do way more
Speaker 1: than any housekeeper ever does. So if they say any
Speaker 1: kind of forced labor, be it sex or actual labor,
Speaker 1: and uh, and that's what we're dealing with when we
Speaker 1: talk about human trafficking. So how do these traffickers, the
Speaker 1: ones who are doing all these terrible things to UM
Speaker 1: do victims how do they do it? Three main ways?
Speaker 1: They use force, fraud, and coercion. With force, someone might
Speaker 1: be kidnapped, UM, taken against their will. And then the
Speaker 1: fraud aspect comes in by essentially holding the person captive
Speaker 1: to debt bondage, especially if you bring someone over to
Speaker 1: the United States, say from from another country. They might
Speaker 1: force them to have to repay their traveling costs, or
Speaker 1: they give them money upfront to lure them into this
Speaker 1: deal that of course is going to lead them into
Speaker 1: something terrible. Uh, they have to repay this. And then
Speaker 1: with coercion, either through threats of physical violence or like
Speaker 1: you mentioned, taking photos, compromising photos of girls who have
Speaker 1: been forced in the prostitution and saying we will send
Speaker 1: these to your family and your family will be shamed
Speaker 1: because of you, UM. Using all of these not just
Speaker 1: physical coercion, but also you know, put drawing on cultural
Speaker 1: issues as well. Yeah, and you know a lot of times, UM,
Speaker 1: like I said, a person could have said, okay, I
Speaker 1: want to go with you to be a model, and
Speaker 1: then they end up as a prostitute. But they think
Speaker 1: that they have somehow can sent it to this kind
Speaker 1: of life, and that's also key to fraud because a
Speaker 1: lot of these people UM can get blamed sometimes for
Speaker 1: the situation they get in UM. Or Let's say that
Speaker 1: there's a poor family in a developing country and someone
Speaker 1: comes in and says, I can take your son and
Speaker 1: put them in a really great school and you can
Speaker 1: with a really rich family and help a great life,
Speaker 1: and the family will consend to that, not knowing that
Speaker 1: the kid UM is going to end up in you know,
Speaker 1: a labor labor camp, sweat sweatshops. So that's also key
Speaker 1: to fraud is if you consent originally you uh if
Speaker 1: if the if the deal changes, then it's fraud again
Speaker 1: because a lot of people confuse trafficking with migrants smuggling,
Speaker 1: And the one of the key differences there is people
Speaker 1: who are smuggled agree to be smuggled, right, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: take me to America. I want to work there, and
Speaker 1: the person hides them and gets them across the border.
Speaker 1: Totally different from trafficking because even if these people are
Speaker 1: like yeah, I'll go with you, they don't know what
Speaker 1: they're going to. And we also should clarify that human
Speaker 1: trafficking does not have to involve travel. I mean we
Speaker 1: often think of, you know, crossing borders illegally and things
Speaker 1: like that. But Nicholas Kristoff from the New York Times,
Speaker 1: who's done a lot of coverage on human trafficking uh
Speaker 1: notes that in the US, American runaways are the number
Speaker 1: one target of trafficking in the United States. So there's
Speaker 1: staying in the US, but they're still victims of human trafficking.
Speaker 1: And I think that that gets to the problem with
Speaker 1: why we can't solve it is people don't really know
Speaker 1: what to look for. And if you do, if you're
Speaker 1: driving down the road and you see a teenager and
Speaker 1: you just assume their runaway, you don't think, well, you know,
Speaker 1: further deep down into what you know, how they got
Speaker 1: to where they are. We think that a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are on the streets or who are at
Speaker 1: work in this country chose to be there because we
Speaker 1: all have the option of choosing, you know, where to
Speaker 1: go to work and where to live and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, there was one quote I came
Speaker 1: across when I was researching this is that a woman
Speaker 1: said she'd never met a person who was a prostitute
Speaker 1: who willingly chose to do so, and that's a whole
Speaker 1: that's an argument for a whole other time. But um,
Speaker 1: I think in this country especially, we think that people
Speaker 1: on the streets chose to be there. And Chris Stopt
Speaker 1: did a really good job of highlighting the fact that
Speaker 1: no trafficking exists within this country of US girls to
Speaker 1: US men, um, you know, holding them a sense as
Speaker 1: sex slaves. And it's only been in the past ten
Speaker 1: years that the government has really acknowledged this problem, especially
Speaker 1: within within the United States and also as a as
Speaker 1: a global issue as well, because it was until two
Speaker 1: thousand that the US passed the Trafficking Victims Protection Act,
Speaker 1: and that was also the same year that the U
Speaker 1: N past the Palermo Protocols, which essentially calls on you
Speaker 1: and member countries to fight human trafficking. But again, it's
Speaker 1: such a tough problem to tackle because it's so hard
Speaker 1: to even identify who who they are, right And you've
Speaker 1: got to always remember this force broad incoercion because a
Speaker 1: lot of people are saying, why don't these people just
Speaker 1: run away? And there are times when police will bust
Speaker 1: up a brothel or um, you know, bust up an
Speaker 1: illegal immigration situation and say, you know, what's going on here.
Speaker 1: And these people, because they're so scared for their lives
Speaker 1: or their families lives, are not good about speaking up
Speaker 1: about you know, things that they things have been done
Speaker 1: against them that they don't know are legal UM. And
Speaker 1: police aren't trustworthy in every country, so if they have
Speaker 1: left a country where police bribes are common, they may
Speaker 1: not think that the police for people that can trust.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of work going on right now
Speaker 1: about how police officers in this country can better approach
Speaker 1: a situation like a brothel bust or a sweatshop bust
Speaker 1: and ask the right questions to help the victims because
Speaker 1: right now, you know, they're not being found and traffickers
Speaker 1: aren't being prosecuted, and yet our country has spent tons
Speaker 1: of money trying to find these people. So you know
Speaker 1: why is why is the resources allocated not matching prosecutions
Speaker 1: and help for victims? Right And a lot of times
Speaker 1: it's going to be the victims people who have been
Speaker 1: forced into prostitution or whatever other type of trafficking UM
Speaker 1: they got involved with. They're going to be the ones
Speaker 1: who are arrested in charge, and not the people who
Speaker 1: are actually doing the bad stuff. Trafficking is a very
Speaker 1: low risk chiro war crime. Well, and it reminds me
Speaker 1: of this is an issue that's come up recently in
Speaker 1: here in Georgia, UM, where the government is trying to
Speaker 1: tighten up on sex trafficking just within the state. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is like on the state level problem.
Speaker 1: But um, it's unfortunate that the bill they passed still
Speaker 1: is going to penalize the girls, um, rather than just
Speaker 1: the pimps. Yeah, and it's not saying that I'm not
Speaker 1: arguing that the prostitution should should not should go unpunished,
Speaker 1: but it also creates a chilling effect for girls who
Speaker 1: might want to get out of it, but they're risking
Speaker 1: legal trouble for themselves too. It's like there, it's a
Speaker 1: catch twenty two and the traffickers know that, and so
Speaker 1: the traffickers will constantly threaten them with you know, if
Speaker 1: you tell anyone, I'm not the one who gets in trouble.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to build a traffic in case right now,
Speaker 1: just because so if you have been built in the past.
Speaker 1: But prostitution is a crime being in the country illegally
Speaker 1: that can get you in trouble, and so you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's no incentive really for these people. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's huge ins that I'm because their life sucks. But
Speaker 1: I mean, like the incentive to come forward is not
Speaker 1: much better than the status quo because you know, you've
Speaker 1: been conditioned to live this way. I mean, think about
Speaker 1: the psychological trauma that they have had to live with. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's not a matter of just walking
Speaker 1: out the door one day and not coming back. And
Speaker 1: just to give you an idea to put some numbers
Speaker 1: around this of how big of a problem this is
Speaker 1: and what how difficult it's been to approach it. From
Speaker 1: a legal standpoint, they're an estimated twelve point three million
Speaker 1: victims of human trafficking around the world. And that's versus
Speaker 1: just over four thousand successful prosecutions. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the time period for that is, but um, I think
Speaker 1: four thousand was one year and twelve point three is total.
Speaker 1: And you know it just that's that's an awful fraction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if we narrow if we narrow that down just
Speaker 1: to to New York to give you a better idea,
Speaker 1: from two thousand seven to two thousand line, after they
Speaker 1: passed this this new human trafficking law. Uh, they'd only
Speaker 1: made in two years eighteen arrests related to human trafficking.
Speaker 1: That's not including that's just an arrest, that isn't they
Speaker 1: could have gotten away without a without prosecution. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know that's as soon as you start reading about
Speaker 1: human trafficking, this issue of numbers comes up because activists
Speaker 1: told Congress that it was fifty slaves coming into the
Speaker 1: US every year. And obviously you read you only have
Speaker 1: to read like two or three stories of what trafficking
Speaker 1: involves via sex, trafficking, labor, traffic or whatever to get
Speaker 1: really mad and to want to end. So obviously Congress
Speaker 1: took action. There were under a lot of pressure, especially
Speaker 1: from um Christian groups who wanted to stop this. And
Speaker 1: that's how we got the Trafficking Victims Protection Act in
Speaker 1: two thousand and you know, Bush, as we said, allocated
Speaker 1: a ton of money to find these slaves. And when
Speaker 1: they can't find them, people are like, well, how many
Speaker 1: people are there? I mean, are we not looking in
Speaker 1: the right places? Do we even need to be looking
Speaker 1: at all? Maybe this problem is over belogne Um and
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of I mean, you can't you can't
Speaker 1: count modern slaves if you find them and just try
Speaker 1: and take a census of them and then leave them alone.
Speaker 1: Then uh, you know that's sort of really silly. So um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's impossible to know how big the problem is,
Speaker 1: and so people don't know sort of the extent to
Speaker 1: which we're failing at solving it or the extent to
Speaker 1: which we're not looking in the right place. Well, it
Speaker 1: seems like to the that government estimate has dropped pretty
Speaker 1: significantly down to around fifteen thousand. But like you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, the methodology for actually identifying these people is
Speaker 1: completely flawed. And there's actually an organization called the Vera
Speaker 1: Institute of Justice that is focusing solely on how to
Speaker 1: better count human trafficking victims because it's like it's part
Speaker 1: of solving the problems you have to identify and they
Speaker 1: don't know how big the problem is. But everyone every
Speaker 1: story is very similar in terms of these people who
Speaker 1: were you know, sucked in with a promise of something
Speaker 1: and then turned into a slave of some sort, be
Speaker 1: a sex slave or a labor slave. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's sort of the easy part is finding the tales
Speaker 1: of that, and the hard part is going to be
Speaker 1: obviously stopping it. And so right now, what the State
Speaker 1: Department with the U N are using to try and
Speaker 1: stop this thing is the three P approach tree PS prevention, prosecution,
Speaker 1: and protection, and prevention is maybe the hardest one to
Speaker 1: solve because in order to prevent there's one one um
Speaker 1: theory that in order to prevent human trafficking from happening,
Speaker 1: you would need to eradicate poverty. Yeah, because I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of people are are you know, they are
Speaker 1: seeking a better life. I mean, we are the famed
Speaker 1: holders of the American dream, where through hard work you
Speaker 1: can achieve anything. And so that's what these people. These
Speaker 1: people aren't coming for free ride. They're coming to work.
Speaker 1: You know, they're coming to be the waitress with the
Speaker 1: housekeeper whatever. It just turns out to be such a nightmare.
Speaker 1: So you know, you'd have to eliminate the situation and
Speaker 1: circumstances that would make someone think I should leave this
Speaker 1: podunk little village and go to America and make someone
Speaker 1: motivate someone to actually do this to people to run
Speaker 1: these brothels because they are making a ton of cash. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean supply and demand. So that's another theory is
Speaker 1: that some people think we should go, Um, we should
Speaker 1: either legalize prostitution or make it illegal. No one can
Speaker 1: really decide what's going to cut down on the demand.
Speaker 1: But right now there is a demand to have sex
Speaker 1: with young girls. So how do we solve that, man,
Speaker 1: boys and boys? I mean, it's not an easy question
Speaker 1: to answer. So prevention is never going to be a
Speaker 1: simple thing. Yeah, let's eradicate poverty and eliminate the need
Speaker 1: for an underground sex slave trade. And so you let
Speaker 1: me know how to do that. Well, and here's another
Speaker 1: another interesting thing too. Um, when we think about sex
Speaker 1: trafficking especially, we probably imagine these pimps being a bunch
Speaker 1: of no good, rotten men. But come to find out,
Speaker 1: there are actually more female pimps in a third of
Speaker 1: the countries that we're we're human trafficking is the most prevalent,
Speaker 1: So women are getting in on this game too. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think it was. One country
Speaker 1: is Bulgaria, where, especially in Eastern Europe, sex trafficking is
Speaker 1: really a huge problem right now, and the annual salary
Speaker 1: there is but a prostitute in that country can make dollars.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's so funny. We've talked before about
Speaker 1: how women are viewed in developing world and how they're
Speaker 1: their opinions aren't valued as much. And you know a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are exploited for this are people
Speaker 1: who don't have any value in society until you turn
Speaker 1: them into a worker for you. So it's very sad
Speaker 1: to see how uh devaluing of life, particularly if you
Speaker 1: are a woman or a child, can make your life
Speaker 1: a living nightmare. So the third p that we haven't
Speaker 1: touched on is this aspect of protection. Obviously, you want
Speaker 1: to UM protect people's basic human rights. You want to
Speaker 1: protect the rights of the victims. You don't want to
Speaker 1: drive this even more underground um by like like we said,
Speaker 1: setting up so many legal obstacles to them actually getting
Speaker 1: out breaking this cycle and and getting out of trafficking.
Speaker 1: Because what often happens in the attempt to protect the
Speaker 1: three d s pop up, which our detention, deportation, and disempowerment,
Speaker 1: which does nothing to solve the problem. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: view the victim of human trafficking as a criminal, then
Speaker 1: you know they tend to be deported, they tend to
Speaker 1: be UM, they serve jail time, and UH often when
Speaker 1: they're deported, they end up right back with the same traffickers,
Speaker 1: and the trifers will just send them right back and
Speaker 1: it's a vicious cycle. So um, it's really about stopping.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think that we've all been guilty
Speaker 1: of passing, you know, people on the street and thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: they have no one to blame with themselves, and understanding
Speaker 1: that worldwide there are a lot of people that we
Speaker 1: look at like that, that we look at is lower
Speaker 1: than us or deserving of an awful thing, and realizing
Speaker 1: that they may not be in control of their own situation.
Speaker 1: And as just everyday folks, you know, we're not we're
Speaker 1: not working for the government cracking down on human trafficking.
Speaker 1: You and I are not yet co presidents of the
Speaker 1: United States of America, Molly. But there are things that
Speaker 1: we can do, just um in in the every day
Speaker 1: to help with one of those p's help with a
Speaker 1: with a prevention and the protection I'd say to some
Speaker 1: to some extent um. And this comes from a two
Speaker 1: thousand eight book by Benjamin Skinner called a crime So monstrous,
Speaker 1: And since we keep relying on since everything's coming in threes,
Speaker 1: three p s, three d S and here how about
Speaker 1: well these skinners three steps, Yes, skinners, three steps, thank you, Molly.
Speaker 1: So he says that people should educate themselves about trafficking.
Speaker 1: So past yourself on the back listener, because that's what
Speaker 1: you're doing, right and if you made it all the
Speaker 1: way there, so helps only two more steps to go.
Speaker 1: Second one, put pressure on elected officials and candidates about
Speaker 1: what steps they should take to solve the problem. And clearly,
Speaker 1: since this issue is going on, for instance, in our backyard,
Speaker 1: Molly with a capital building a mirror, are well, that'd
Speaker 1: be a long stone stir maybe baseball baseball bat hit
Speaker 1: away though Braves, Um, you know there are things that
Speaker 1: you can do because this is happening everywhere. This is
Speaker 1: not just like on a national, federal level problem. And
Speaker 1: then also support advoca advocacy groups like Free to Slaves
Speaker 1: and Anti Slavery International that are working there on the
Speaker 1: front lines, helping the victims, helping people regain their lives,
Speaker 1: helping prevent, helping protect and I think just changing your
Speaker 1: world view and not looking at this as someone's faults, right, uh,
Speaker 1: to look at people and wonder are these people, as
Speaker 1: one one, are glide redards, people walking around in invisible chains. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and also remember that poverty piece, um, because a
Speaker 1: lot of people are just you know, they're motivated by
Speaker 1: the same thing we're all motivated by, and that's to
Speaker 1: put a roof of our heads and food in our mouths,
Speaker 1: and or that you need money. Well, on that note,
Speaker 1: should we open it up to our listeners and perhaps
Speaker 1: read a listener mail lootly and we will read something
Speaker 1: that has come into our email address, mom stuff and
Speaker 1: also like works dot com. All right, I have one
Speaker 1: here from Mark and it's on the soap Opera podcast.
Speaker 1: He writes. I thought I would let you know about
Speaker 1: the soap opera that I watched and have watched since
Speaker 1: I was a young lad back in the seventies. It's
Speaker 1: called Coronation Street and has been running into England since
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. It just celebrated its fiftieth anniversary and to
Speaker 1: commemerate that, the show is aired live. It is not
Speaker 1: like most of the American soaps that feature over the
Speaker 1: top characters and storylines, but has characters who reflect working
Speaker 1: class characters in the North of England. It also features
Speaker 1: strong female characters and these have been a mainstay from
Speaker 1: the inception of the show. It is dealt with many
Speaker 1: social aspects of life from the beginning and portrays them
Speaker 1: in a realistic and compassionate manner. I am so passionate
Speaker 1: about the show that myself and a few of my
Speaker 1: friends formed an organization to host events for fans of
Speaker 1: this show. We host four events each year. Our biggest
Speaker 1: event is in April, where we bring one of the
Speaker 1: actors or actresses from the show over to Canada for
Speaker 1: our event. We've been bringing the stars to Canada for
Speaker 1: the last nine years and the big event is usually
Speaker 1: attended by over seven hundred fans. We just hosted an
Speaker 1: actress at Miss Vicky Bens, who plays a character named Molly,
Speaker 1: and last year our national TV broadcaster CBC aired a
Speaker 1: documentary on the fans of Coron Nation Street which featured
Speaker 1: our group. Very cool. Well, I've gotten an email here
Speaker 1: from Chris in Canada who says that while growing up
Speaker 1: in the Canadian Prairies, she had a female role model
Speaker 1: that we had mentioned before and given super and given
Speaker 1: the super Heroine podcast, I think she deserves to mention
Speaker 1: villainouses are generally depraved, dressed in black, the whole nine
Speaker 1: yards quite evil, but don't even have their own Wikipedia page.
Speaker 1: Is that possible? They're usually not terribly sophisticated, but enjoy
Speaker 1: wielding power over others, especially over other women. They aren't
Speaker 1: generally valued, And that's why I want to bring up
Speaker 1: Carmen San Diego. Where in the world is shame? Where
Speaker 1: in the world is that kindle? Love that game and
Speaker 1: this kid. You've mentioned her before, but I don't think
Speaker 1: she's done justice. She's a strong, independent, wealthy, intelligent, athletic,
Speaker 1: resourceful and wise character and also well dressed. That was
Speaker 1: my aside. While she's quite dastedly, she isn't violent, and
Speaker 1: she never looks to put whoever is chasing her in
Speaker 1: real danger, and if they are in danger, she will
Speaker 1: help them out of it. She plays the game for
Speaker 1: personal enjoyment and knows that she has all the cards.
Speaker 1: She is also not dressed skimpily, but not unattractively. Like
Speaker 1: every part of her character, she strikes a balance that
Speaker 1: makes her mysterious. She cannot be in any way portrayed
Speaker 1: as using her sexuality to her advantage, but she does
Speaker 1: not try to adopt a male identity or be anything
Speaker 1: other than what she is. I hope you'll hear podcast
Speaker 1: on Villainous Is sometimes and give a good mention to
Speaker 1: Karenman san Diego because she inspired my love of history
Speaker 1: and geography which has irrevocably changed my life. And also
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