Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Tracy V. Wilson. I'm Holly from so Holly.
Speaker 1: How often have you heard somebody say history is written
Speaker 1: by the victors? I can't even count how many times
Speaker 1: I've said it. I know we've said it a lot
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Today, we're gonna talk about a pretty
Speaker 1: giant exception to that conventional wisdom, which is the Pueblo
Speaker 1: Revolt of sixteen eighty. And in this revolt, Native American
Speaker 1: people's who are collectively known as the Pueblos, rose up
Speaker 1: in Unison against Spanish colonists and missionaries who had started
Speaker 1: settling the area at the turn of the seventeenth century.
Speaker 1: These settlers were Catholic and had begun systematically converting the
Speaker 1: native population, and had also forbidden the practice of the
Speaker 1: pueblos traditional religions. So on August tenth, sixteen eighty, the
Speaker 1: Pueblos and multiple villages rose up simultaneously against the settlers.
Speaker 1: They threw off the colonial government and lived outside of
Speaker 1: Spanish rule for the next twelve years. This was probably
Speaker 1: the most successful indigenous uprisings in North American history. But
Speaker 1: because the Pueblos were not keeping written records of their
Speaker 1: history at the time, it was a largely oral tradition.
Speaker 1: Most of the history on this one was actually written
Speaker 1: by the losing side. Where we do have written records
Speaker 1: of the Native American point of view, it's in the
Speaker 1: form of testimony that was given orally by Pueblo peoples
Speaker 1: and written down by Spanish priests. So it's clearly not
Speaker 1: an unbiased account where we do have the Native American
Speaker 1: perspective on things. Since we're going to talk about today
Speaker 1: this huge revolt of which we have very little record
Speaker 1: of the victor side. Uh So, for background, before the
Speaker 1: arrival of European settlers, the part of the world that's
Speaker 1: an now northern Mexico and the southwestern United States was
Speaker 1: home to several tribes of Native peoples who fit very
Speaker 1: broadly into two groups. And one group was the more
Speaker 1: mobile hunter gatherer peoples and then included the Navajo in
Speaker 1: the Apache, and the other group included the Native Americans
Speaker 1: who were living in established permanent settlements that Spanish colonists
Speaker 1: dubbed pueblos. So pueblos are communal living situations with terraces
Speaker 1: and flat roofs. They are built around a central court
Speaker 1: and above an underground ceremonial chamber called a kiva. Once
Speaker 1: the Spanish coined the term pueblos, the various peoples who
Speaker 1: lived in them came to be collectively known as the
Speaker 1: Pueblo Indians, and the Pueblo peoples are most likely descended
Speaker 1: from the Anasazi, and they include the Hopie and the Zuni,
Speaker 1: among others. Pueblos do still exist today, and one of them,
Speaker 1: the Acoma Pueblo, is believed to be the oldest continually
Speaker 1: inhabited place in the United States. Uh people have lived
Speaker 1: in it since about the year twelve hundred, so although
Speaker 1: the Pueblo people's lived in similar looking structures, this wasn't
Speaker 1: and isn't one homogeneous group of people. The Pueblo spoke
Speaker 1: seven different languages in the sixteen hundreds, although some may
Speaker 1: have spoken Spanish as well. Each individual pueblo governed itself
Speaker 1: and had its own customs and its own cultural nuances.
Speaker 1: Spain made its way to this part of the world
Speaker 1: with the intent to conquer land and convert the people
Speaker 1: living there to Christianity. At Last, but not least, on
Speaker 1: their agenda was finding a bunch of treasure, and some
Speaker 1: of that would fold back in to fund their first
Speaker 1: and second agendas, and in a lot of vis the
Speaker 1: primary agenda was really treasure um, but the treasure there
Speaker 1: was in some some components of it, like the the
Speaker 1: treasure had an end besides just treasure in itself right,
Speaker 1: and that was conquering and converting. Spanish settlers made contact
Speaker 1: with the Pueblo people in the early fifteen hundreds when
Speaker 1: Marcus Deniza, who was a Franciscan friar, claimed the whole
Speaker 1: region for Spain. The infamous conquistador Coronado also made his
Speaker 1: way through in fifteen forty, and Conquistador Juan Deonte made
Speaker 1: a voyage there with four hundred settlers in Fife. At
Speaker 1: that point he established New Mexico as a Spanish colony,
Speaker 1: and that's really when Spanish colonization of the area started.
Speaker 1: In earnest and the whole vast hordes of treasure idea
Speaker 1: didn't pan out for New Mexico, and Spain wanted to
Speaker 1: abandon the area, but the Franciscans made a case for
Speaker 1: their mission work being far too advanced to just come
Speaker 1: to an end abruptly, so they continued on with the
Speaker 1: aim of converting the indigenous population and ministering to the
Speaker 1: ones that they had already been successful in converting. In
Speaker 1: addition to trying to convert the indigenous population to Catholicism,
Speaker 1: the Spanish authorities also forbade traditional religious practices. So when
Speaker 1: they arrived a Pueblo village, the Spanish would start by
Speaker 1: destroying the kiva, which was used for religious and cultural
Speaker 1: ceremonies and also it was kind of like a gathering place.
Speaker 1: Um sometimes they would build the church directly over the
Speaker 1: kiva site. The Spanish also destroyed masks and other items
Speaker 1: that were associated with cachinas, and these were spirit beings
Speaker 1: worshiped in traditional pit Pueblo religions. The Native Americans who
Speaker 1: resisted the Spanish were often subject to imprisonment and torture,
Speaker 1: and in a recurring theme regarding the colonization of the America's,
Speaker 1: the settlers introduced measles, smallpox, and typhus. Up to eight
Speaker 1: of the Pueblo population actually died in the years after
Speaker 1: first contact due to disease. Yeah, but this was not
Speaker 1: a wholly a one sided thing. There was there were
Speaker 1: also diseases brought back to Europe from the colonies, but
Speaker 1: not not nearly with the lethal ramifications has happened in
Speaker 1: the America a lot huge. The Spanish also implemented taxation
Speaker 1: in their colonies, and the rates of taxation were so
Speaker 1: high that over about a decade, the Spanish went from
Speaker 1: asking the Pueblos for food to help them get started
Speaker 1: with their colony, to instead the Pueblos asking the Spanish
Speaker 1: for food that had been taxed away from them. And
Speaker 1: to add to all of this, a drought started in
Speaker 1: sixteen sixty six that lasted for four years before the
Speaker 1: arrival of the Spanish. The Pueblo people survived drought by
Speaker 1: keeping stockpiles of food and trading with one another. It
Speaker 1: was very cooperative, but the Spanish had taxed them so
Speaker 1: heavily that no one had a stockpile, and trade among
Speaker 1: the pueblos was prohibited. Raids by the apaches on the
Speaker 1: remaining meager stores made things even harder, so basically all
Speaker 1: of their resources were stripped from them right and then
Speaker 1: there was an epidemic of an unknown and deeply deadly
Speaker 1: disease in six seventy one, and and all of this,
Speaker 1: of course had a measurable effect on the Pueblo population.
Speaker 1: Over the seventy five years between the real start of
Speaker 1: Spanish settlement and the revolt, the number of pueblos dropped
Speaker 1: from about one hundred to about forty existing today are
Speaker 1: about twenty. In the minds of many Pueblo peoples at
Speaker 1: the time, life was getting harder and harder, specifically because
Speaker 1: they were not being allowed to perform their religious observances.
Speaker 1: Like a Western idea of this might be that God
Speaker 1: was exacting vengeance because he was not being worshiped enough,
Speaker 1: but this was more a worldview that that those observances
Speaker 1: were crucial to maintaining their quality of life and the
Speaker 1: way that the world was supposed to work, and without
Speaker 1: those observances going on, that things were going off the rails. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: their entire culture had been upended and most of their
Speaker 1: traditions stripped away. So yes, that will pretty much ruin
Speaker 1: your life. Your structure has been completely taken away. UH.
Speaker 1: Spanish authorities cracked down harder on descent after the Acoma
Speaker 1: revolt in and in this revolt, the Acoma Pueblo attacked
Speaker 1: a party of Spanish people who asked them for supplies.
Speaker 1: So UH, Spanish authorities had cracked down harder on Descent
Speaker 1: after an event that actually took place some time before
Speaker 1: in and that was the Acoma Revolt. And in this revolt,
Speaker 1: the Acoma Pueblo attacked a party of Spanish people who
Speaker 1: had asked them for supplies. The Spanish then burned down
Speaker 1: the town and massacred every male living there who was
Speaker 1: over the age of And in the aftermath of this revolt, floggings,
Speaker 1: public executions, and sentences of slavery became more common. So
Speaker 1: after that whole thing had happened, the Spanish basically their
Speaker 1: approach to anything was going to be swift and cruel,
Speaker 1: pretty hands yeah yeah, um so over the development of
Speaker 1: you know, the diseases and taxation that we just talked about.
Speaker 1: Other revolts were also going on, but because the pueblos
Speaker 1: were so spread out, most of them were really too
Speaker 1: small to be effective. And in some cases Native Americans
Speaker 1: who were loyal to the Spanish had tipped them off
Speaker 1: to what was happening. So there was resistance going on
Speaker 1: through this whole time, but it wasn't really strong enough
Speaker 1: to gain a foothold. There was a little piece meal yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: In sixteen seventy five, Spanish authorities rounded up forty seven
Speaker 1: Pueblo religious leaders and convicted them of sorcery and conspiring
Speaker 1: to rebel. These leaders who were beaten publicly and they
Speaker 1: were sentenced to slavery. Four were sentenced to execution, though
Speaker 1: one of them committed suicide rather than be executed. One
Speaker 1: of the imprisoned holy leaders was a man named Pope,
Speaker 1: and he was from San Juan Pueblo. Pope and the
Speaker 1: other leaders were released that same year. Pope went to
Speaker 1: the northernmost pueblo, Taos Pueblo. There he reported being visited
Speaker 1: by three spirits who gave him a prophecy abundance would
Speaker 1: return to the pueblos if they purged their world of Spaniards.
Speaker 1: So the Spanish described this event as having had a
Speaker 1: conversation with the devil, and most of the Spanish writing
Speaker 1: about the revolt from the time characterizes it as the
Speaker 1: work of the devil, not as a result of Spanish
Speaker 1: oppression or of the pueblos grievances against the Spanish colonists. So,
Speaker 1: over a period of years, Pope started to organize the
Speaker 1: Pueblo people, who were living in villages that spanned up
Speaker 1: and down the Rio Grande Valley, and they sprawled out
Speaker 1: over more than three hundred miles of territory from east
Speaker 1: to west. So to address the language barrier that we
Speaker 1: referenced earlier, which was one of the things that had
Speaker 1: prevented all these different pueblos from uniting in the past,
Speaker 1: Pope gave each of the villages a knotted chord, which
Speaker 1: he delivered to them using runners, and the villages were
Speaker 1: supposed to un not one knot from the court every day,
Speaker 1: and on the day that the last knot was untied,
Speaker 1: that would be the day that everyone was to rise
Speaker 1: up against the Spanish. And also given to the runners
Speaker 1: were pieces of deer skin that were marked with pictograms.
Speaker 1: Pope rehearsed their meaning with the runners before they left.
Speaker 1: So the plan was to simultaneously attack the Spanish and
Speaker 1: all these different villages using weapons that people had stockpiled
Speaker 1: and hidden, and then to destroy the churches and kill
Speaker 1: the priests, and then to kill the Spanish or drive
Speaker 1: them out of their towns. From there, the pueblos planned
Speaker 1: to converge to turn their attention to the Spanish capital
Speaker 1: at Santa Fe. Two of the runners that Pope sent
Speaker 1: out were captured, giving the Spanish advanced warning of what
Speaker 1: was going to happen. Additional runners were dispatched to tell
Speaker 1: all the pueblos to move the revolution. Earlier news didn't
Speaker 1: make it to all the outlining pueblos in time, and
Speaker 1: a few pueblos appeared to have declined to participate in
Speaker 1: the plan. Yes, there are some descriptions of this that
Speaker 1: make it sound as though this is a completely you
Speaker 1: unanimous action on the part of the pueblos, and for
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons it wasn't was. Some of them
Speaker 1: seemed not to have gotten the news from the runners
Speaker 1: in time. Others seemed to have consciously made the decision
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, either because they were sympathetic to the
Speaker 1: Spanish or were allied with the Spanish, decided not to
Speaker 1: to attack the people who were living there at that point. So,
Speaker 1: regardless of all of that, on August tenth, sight many
Speaker 1: of the pueblos, along with allies from the Apache and
Speaker 1: the Navajo, attacked in more than twenty villages. Together, they
Speaker 1: killed four d and one Spanish soldiers and civilians, including
Speaker 1: twenty one Franciscan priests, and that was about two thirds
Speaker 1: of the ecclesiastical force living in New Mexico at the time.
Speaker 1: We have absolutely no casualty count on the Native American side.
Speaker 1: We have no idea how many pueblos died during the fighting.
Speaker 1: At least one priest, who was Father Juan gray Robe,
Speaker 1: a Zoomi Pueblo, reportedly survived by putting aside Catholicism and
Speaker 1: taking up Pueblo practices, and he eventually married a Zuni wife.
Speaker 1: There's a lot that's actually unclear about this story, though,
Speaker 1: since it's pieced together from multiple testimonies that were given
Speaker 1: orally by Native Americans and then written down by Spanish priests,
Speaker 1: so the veracity of any element of it is a
Speaker 1: little bit questionable. Yeah, we've sort of established that this
Speaker 1: is probably what happened. Um later in a part that
Speaker 1: we will get to in a bit, the Spanish did
Speaker 1: return and apparently found this, particularly this particular pueblo still
Speaker 1: practicing a lot of elements of Catholic religion um led
Speaker 1: by Father Juan gray Robe, who had kind of assimilated
Speaker 1: into the Pueblo culture. Fascinating. That could be a podcast
Speaker 1: in of itself, I would imagine if we had better record,
Speaker 1: if we had enough records to do that, which we
Speaker 1: really don't. Once the fighting was done in the villages,
Speaker 1: of warriors attacked the colonial headquarters at Santa Fe, and
Speaker 1: survivors in Santa Fe and from the surrounding villages all
Speaker 1: fled to the Governor's palace and there uh they were
Speaker 1: laid siege to. Eventually the pueblos cut off the water supply.
Speaker 1: Another group of refugees fled to the Isletic Pueblo, which
Speaker 1: was seventy miles to the south and apparently had not
Speaker 1: taken part in the fighting. The Lieutenant Governor was there
Speaker 1: with a group of survivors, and eventually, on August twenty one,
Speaker 1: the governor decided to abandon New Mexico. He and the
Speaker 1: survivors who had taken refuge in Santa Fe managed to
Speaker 1: flee down the Rio grand And exactly whether this is
Speaker 1: because they were allowed to go or we're just strong
Speaker 1: enough presents not to be messed with is still a
Speaker 1: matter of some debate. Uh. The Lieutenant governor decided to
Speaker 1: abandon New Mexico as well. Yeah, we pretty much know
Speaker 1: that they all left and the Native Americans allowed them
Speaker 1: to leave, but we have no record of the rationale
Speaker 1: for uh why everyone was allowed to leave. At this point, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they cut a deal, or if they just were strong
Speaker 1: enough that they were like, we're just gonna let this happen.
Speaker 1: Along with some of the Pueblo peoples who were loyal
Speaker 1: to Spain, everyone went to El Paso del Norte which
Speaker 1: today is Warrez, Mexico, and for twelve years the pueblos
Speaker 1: were actually free from colonial rule. And before we talk
Speaker 1: about um sort of how this all played out for
Speaker 1: the next twelve years, how it affected life in New
Speaker 1: Mexico for the next while. Well, let's take a moment
Speaker 1: and talk about our sponsor. That sounds grand to the
Speaker 1: aftermath of the Pueblo revolt. Yeah, So after the revolt,
Speaker 1: Pope toured the pueblos and instructed people to really throw
Speaker 1: off all Spanish influence. Many people underwent a ritual bathing
Speaker 1: that was meant to wash away their baptism. Christian marriages
Speaker 1: were also avoided until a traditional pueblo ceremony could be performed,
Speaker 1: and the pueblos burned down the ledges that the Spanish
Speaker 1: had built, including Spanish built pueblos that the native people's
Speaker 1: had been living in. They basically wanted to eradicate anything
Speaker 1: the Spanish had touched, They burned down mission churches and
Speaker 1: smashed the bells, They whipped statues, gouged out the eyes
Speaker 1: of religious paintings. But this really didn't happen in every
Speaker 1: single pueblo. This is another thing that a lot of
Speaker 1: times in modern accounts you will see this as a
Speaker 1: universal thing that happened in every single pueblo to the
Speaker 1: same extent. But there's really a lot of variety and
Speaker 1: exactly how much each pueblo village did or did not
Speaker 1: reject Catholic influence at this point, and some of their tribes.
Speaker 1: Some of the tribes actually moved their pueblos to more
Speaker 1: defensible vantage points to better defend themselves in case the
Speaker 1: Spanish returned. Many of the new pueblos that were built
Speaker 1: after the revolt were built immediately adjacent to other villages
Speaker 1: that dated back to the twelve or thirteenth century, So
Speaker 1: it sort of seems as though that in addition to
Speaker 1: going back to their traditional ways, they were also going
Speaker 1: back to the places where their ancestors had lived. But
Speaker 1: Spanish influence was not entirely destroyed. Some Spanish introductions to
Speaker 1: Pueblo culture, including raising cattle and sheep, had become part
Speaker 1: of the way of life there, and Pope decreed that
Speaker 1: people should go back to planning corn exclusively, but some
Speaker 1: continued to plant wheat and barley, which had also been
Speaker 1: introduced by the Spanish. There were also Pueblo people at
Speaker 1: this point who identified as Christians and who didn't want
Speaker 1: to give up their religion. Uh These people would salvage
Speaker 1: and hide what they could or incorporate Christian themes into
Speaker 1: their traditional spiritual practice, so you can see some kind
Speaker 1: of merging of the two influences in the archaeological record.
Speaker 1: In some places, the Spanish started to attempt to retake
Speaker 1: the Pueblo area in sixteen eighty one. There were skirmishes
Speaker 1: and sieges that went on for years. Pope died in
Speaker 1: six and there really wasn't another charismatic leader to take
Speaker 1: his play us and try to unite all the people
Speaker 1: of the different pueblos, And even before his death his
Speaker 1: leadership had really weakened. He wound up dying in disgrace. Um.
Speaker 1: There's some suggestion in the testimonies that was taken orally
Speaker 1: from the Pueblo peoples that there were Pueblos that went
Speaker 1: along with Pope because they were scared of him, and
Speaker 1: not because they actually wanted to rebel. It's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to to figure out whether that is really what
Speaker 1: people thought or whether that is sort of an addition
Speaker 1: um of the Spanish translators. But the fact that he
Speaker 1: did die in pretty much not a state of respect
Speaker 1: or reverence makes it seem like maybe there was some
Speaker 1: merit to that, Yes, some merit to that part of it. Also,
Speaker 1: the sort of back to the old ways that he
Speaker 1: was advocating did seem like and sometimes that it was
Speaker 1: sort of back to the old ways as envisioned by Pope.
Speaker 1: Some of the pueblos that were rebuilt after the revolt
Speaker 1: have more in common with Pays particular people then with
Speaker 1: the pueblos that they were replacing. And weakened by years
Speaker 1: of fighting and a loss of a central leader to
Speaker 1: coordinate their efforts, the Pueblo peoples once again fell to
Speaker 1: the Spanish, and that was in Sixteo. At this point, though,
Speaker 1: the evangelical policy of the Catholic Church did become somewhat
Speaker 1: less oppressive in terms of religious expression, so there were
Speaker 1: still missions and churches being built. Missionaries still tried to
Speaker 1: convert people, but they didn't really stand in the way
Speaker 1: of the Pueblo people's free religious expression at that point.
Speaker 1: So while there was still a whole colonial system going on,
Speaker 1: the Pueblo people's did have more of an ability to
Speaker 1: to carry on their their historical traditions and their spiritual traditions.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately that did not stop things from uh being
Speaker 1: bloody and the reconquest process. So while there were some
Speaker 1: peaceful surrenders in other places, the Spanish actually went house
Speaker 1: to house and burned people in our homes. It's pretty
Speaker 1: bloody all around. Historical archaeologist Matthew J. Liebmann frames this
Speaker 1: whole revolt as a revolution and not a revolt, and
Speaker 1: he draws some parallels between it and the American Revolution. Basically,
Speaker 1: in both cases there were farming people who were unhappy
Speaker 1: with the leadership, who organized at night to rise up
Speaker 1: and get rid of an oppressive colonial government that they
Speaker 1: were unhappy living under. And today there are about seventy
Speaker 1: five thousand people of Pueblo descent still living. Yes, we're
Speaker 1: not talking about people who existed only in the past.
Speaker 1: As we said earlier, one of the pueblos is one
Speaker 1: of the most or one of the oldest, continually inhabited
Speaker 1: places in the United States. So the culture endures to
Speaker 1: some degree UM and indoors, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: pueblos that still exists are still inhabited in a way
Speaker 1: that's similar to how they were inhabited at this point
Speaker 1: in history. UM. A lot of them are places that
Speaker 1: people can visit if they're interested in learning about. There
Speaker 1: a lot of resources online to kind of get a
Speaker 1: sense of what the etiquette is of going, like what
Speaker 1: people can, what visitors can and cannot witness, and can
Speaker 1: and cannot do and participate in. UM. We can add
Speaker 1: that to our list of History Podcast road trips. Yes,
Speaker 1: the Pueblo trip. That would be very cool. There's a
Speaker 1: statue of Pope in the Statuary Hall in the United
Speaker 1: States Capital. It's one of the seven Native Americans who
Speaker 1: were represented in the Statuary Hall. And as we've talked about,
Speaker 1: there are nuances to this story, so you know, for
Speaker 1: that reason, it was a pretty controversial addition to the
Speaker 1: statuary Hall. It was carved by Cliff Fragua of him
Speaker 1: as Pueblo and it depicts him he's uh, he's holding
Speaker 1: the knotted chord that was used to help time everything correctly,
Speaker 1: which is really a pretty ingenious timing device. Yeah, simple
Speaker 1: but effective. I I also watched a video that pointed
Speaker 1: out that it's kind of weird where it's position because
Speaker 1: where where the statue of Pope is you can see
Speaker 1: over his shoulder this, um, this big mural of Columbus
Speaker 1: quote discovering. But because of the way the statue happens
Speaker 1: to be positioned, he's his face has kind of turned
Speaker 1: away from that. Interesting. Yeah, I don't think that was
Speaker 1: a deliberate I think it just worked out that way. UM. Fascinating,
Speaker 1: But yeah, do you also have some listener mail for
Speaker 1: us to enjoy? Do you have some listener mail? This
Speaker 1: listener mail is from Hallie and it's about our laur
Speaker 1: Angles Wilder podcast. Um. He starts by wishing us happy holidays.
Speaker 1: We are just back from these holidays. I was here
Speaker 1: for most of them, but I say we, it was
Speaker 1: really me. I was gone far away and and so
Speaker 1: it is. It is our first recording session post holiday,
Speaker 1: So happy holidays to everyone. Belatedly, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your recent podcast on Lara Angles Wilder in the
Speaker 1: Long Winter of eight one which I am eagerly awaiting.
Speaker 1: I think she had not heard that one yet when
Speaker 1: she wrote this letter. I am a huge Lara Angeles
Speaker 1: Wilder fan. I was introduced to her books at age four,
Speaker 1: and my senior history thesis topic this past year was
Speaker 1: inspired by Laura's stories. I'm one of those people who
Speaker 1: has not yet gone on a Lara angles Wilder road trip,
Speaker 1: but would absolutely love to you. I have been to
Speaker 1: three sides plus al Manzo's New York farm on different occasions. Though,
Speaker 1: considering how much there is to say about Laura, I
Speaker 1: think you did a great job condensing it to forty minutes.
Speaker 1: Just one correction. Al Manzo's name was pronounced like it
Speaker 1: was spelled, not Almonso, so that I have no idea
Speaker 1: where I picked up the pronunciation Almonso. I know either,
Speaker 1: but I do. I mean, if you had woken me
Speaker 1: from a dead sleep and said, how do you pronounce this?
Speaker 1: I would have said Almonzo. Yeah. I think maybe that
Speaker 1: was how they said it on the TV show. Perhaps
Speaker 1: I could not confirm that before we came in here today,
Speaker 1: but so my bad. I don't know where I picked
Speaker 1: up the wrong pronunciation for his name, but appearly I did.
Speaker 1: Um then to say that would explain why she called
Speaker 1: it manly. It does it sounded a lots more sense,
Speaker 1: It's less of a jump. Yes. Uh. I'd like to
Speaker 1: suggest eight related podcast topic, Women in the Homestead Act.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Eliza James homestead. There's so much to talk
Speaker 1: about on the subject of women, particularly single women and
Speaker 1: the Homestead Act. This is what I actually focused my
Speaker 1: thesis on. There is really interesting struggle and gender slash
Speaker 1: power play that went on with allowing single women to file.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned in the podcast, women were confined largely
Speaker 1: to the house but filing a homestead claimant working the land.
Speaker 1: And although the government allowed women to do this, the
Speaker 1: language that was used to talk about homesteading completely left
Speaker 1: out women. Because of this, You've got some women using
Speaker 1: masculine language to talk about themselves. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember the term batch ng from the Long Winter
Speaker 1: to describe how al Manzo and Royal were living. But
Speaker 1: some women, namely one who called herself Bachelor Best, started
Speaker 1: using words like that to refer to females. E j
Speaker 1: is also fascinating as she had trouble proving up her
Speaker 1: claim and wrote a really long letter regarding her experience
Speaker 1: during those five years. Carry too was a homestead a homesteader,
Speaker 1: though she did it after the five year law was changed.
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about this, perhaps a
Speaker 1: collaboration with stuff Mob never told you. I also think
Speaker 1: a podcast on Rose would be wonderful, with her reporting libertarianism,
Speaker 1: fascination with Albania, and difficult relationship with her mother. Lastly,
Speaker 1: I wanted to draw your attention to a few things
Speaker 1: you might find interesting in case you didn't come across
Speaker 1: some my near research. There is a research organization devoted
Speaker 1: to Laura Angles Wilder, the Laura Angles Wilder Legacy and
Speaker 1: Research Association. At their first conference, a physics teacher presented
Speaker 1: on the science behind Cap and Almanzo's winter trek In
Speaker 1: the Long Winter. You can see many land patents on
Speaker 1: the website of the Bureau of Land Matt Management, including
Speaker 1: the timber claim patents for Eliza, Jane and Royal Wilder. Oh,
Speaker 1: and remember the Bloody Vendors episode from last year. Laura,
Speaker 1: on several occasions claimed that her father had run ins
Speaker 1: with the family, but historians generally agree that this embellishment
Speaker 1: was suggested by Rose to add more excitement to her
Speaker 1: mother's childhood. Then, Holly gives us a completely unnecessary apology
Speaker 1: for how long this email is. This is so full
Speaker 1: of it's so full of good stuff. Thank you so much, Hallie.
Speaker 1: The Homestead Act is there's so many layers and nuances
Speaker 1: to the Homestead Act that we definitely did not scratch
Speaker 1: the surface of in that particular episode. Um, I don't
Speaker 1: we have maybe talked about this in our prior podcast
Speaker 1: pot Stuff. But one of my favorite reality TV shows
Speaker 1: was called Frontier House, and it was about three families
Speaker 1: who are sort of sent to two basically pretend that
Speaker 1: they're going to be on the frontier food through the winter,
Speaker 1: and and some historians who came in to say whether
Speaker 1: they could survive or not. And one of the families
Speaker 1: is an interracial couple who at the time period, Uh,
Speaker 1: that would have been a potential option for a mixed
Speaker 1: for an interracial couple to be able to make a
Speaker 1: life for themselves without so much interference from the rules
Speaker 1: of society around them who would have said that their
Speaker 1: relationship was not okay. Um, So we have potential opportunities
Speaker 1: for women, for interracial couples, for other people who were
Speaker 1: not living in like the social standard that was acceptable
Speaker 1: at the time. But at the same time, it was
Speaker 1: a devastating act for the Native American population who were
Speaker 1: being removed from their homes and put on reservations to
Speaker 1: make room foreign settlers. So lots of layers to the
Speaker 1: homes that act. It was simultaneously an opportunity and absolutely
Speaker 1: devastating and horrible. Uh So, thank you Hollie for writing
Speaker 1: us that letter so good. It is very good. So
Speaker 1: if you would like to email us and share your thoughts,
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