Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast
Speaker 1: I'm to bling a chalk reboarding and I'm stared out,
Speaker 1: and we talk a lot about the real historical influences
Speaker 1: behind stories and books and movies in particular. But of course,
Speaker 1: the same sort of approach can easily apply to other
Speaker 1: literary and performance genres like place. Yeah, and if you're
Speaker 1: a theater buff, you're probably gonna know the play that
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about today, or you'll at least
Speaker 1: have heard of it. It's called Clyburne Park and it
Speaker 1: opened on Broadway about a month ago to rave reviews,
Speaker 1: and has been nominated for several Tonies, including Best Play,
Speaker 1: Best Performance by an Actor and a Featured Role in
Speaker 1: a Play, and Best Direction of a Play. So a
Speaker 1: lot of acclaim going on. And the play was written
Speaker 1: by Bruce Norris in two thousand nine, and it won
Speaker 1: both the two thou the Leven Pulitzer Prize for Drama
Speaker 1: and London's Olivier Award for Best Play. So Clybram Park
Speaker 1: and its successes are relatively recent, but the history behind
Speaker 1: the story portrayed here goes back decades. The play is
Speaker 1: actually inspired by another very famous play that many of
Speaker 1: you will have heard of, and that's Raisin in the
Speaker 1: Sun by Lorraine Handsbury. Raisin in the Sun, for those
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar, basically deals with the social and emotional
Speaker 1: struggles of a poor black family in Chicago as they
Speaker 1: try to figure out what to do with the ten
Speaker 1: thousan dollar insurance windfall that the mother is about to receive.
Speaker 1: Each family member has their own ideas about the best
Speaker 1: way to spend the money, and the mother ends up
Speaker 1: using part of the money to buy a house in
Speaker 1: a white neighborhood, and they're met with opposition from the
Speaker 1: residents of that neighborhood, and one in particular character named
Speaker 1: Carl even comes to try to talk them out of
Speaker 1: it and buy them out, but they don't take it.
Speaker 1: They don't take his money, and that's a big turning
Speaker 1: point in that play. But this house plot line and
Speaker 1: the racial tension surrounding it actually took inspiration from Lauren
Speaker 1: Handsbury's own life. Her African American family moved to a
Speaker 1: white neighborhood and all white neighborhood, Washington Park in Chicago,
Speaker 1: when she was eight years old, and that was in
Speaker 1: the late nineteen thirties, and her family also had to
Speaker 1: deal with all of these issues surrounding it, even threats
Speaker 1: of physical violence and just just hatred too. Because a
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't want their neighborhoods to be integrated,
Speaker 1: their neighbors literally tried to force them out, citing a
Speaker 1: racially restrictive covenant which basically barred black people from living
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. As a legal they cited this as
Speaker 1: their legal basis to get the Handsburies out of the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: Just a little background on that the black population Chicago
Speaker 1: had increased significantly during the beginning of the twentieth century,
Speaker 1: and these covenants they had basically been established to segregate
Speaker 1: them when they had been set up almost as buffer
Speaker 1: neighborhoods that would isolate these large, predominantly black neighborhoods from
Speaker 1: predominantly white neighborhoods. But a couple of things had happened
Speaker 1: around the time that Handsbury's family had moved into this neighborhood.
Speaker 1: There was an increased demand for housing, of course, because
Speaker 1: of that black population increase, and it was coupled with
Speaker 1: kind of a depressed white housing market after the Depression,
Speaker 1: so that started to break down the system, and for
Speaker 1: for an African American family like Handsbury's, the best deal
Speaker 1: they could find on a house was in a white
Speaker 1: neighborhood because the white family couldn't find a buyer, and
Speaker 1: the black neighborhoods had housing in such short supply that
Speaker 1: the prices were all inflated. So all of this culminated
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forty U. S. Supreme Court case Handsbury
Speaker 1: versus Lee, which actually turned out in favor of the
Speaker 1: hands Berries, but they still had to struggle with discrimination
Speaker 1: and hostility for a long time after that. So A
Speaker 1: Raisin in the Sun, the dramatization of that story, or
Speaker 1: at least something that was inspired by Lauren Handsbury's own story,
Speaker 1: opened on Broadway in March of nineteen fifty nine, and
Speaker 1: it was the first drama by an African American woman
Speaker 1: to be produced on Broadway, and Cliborne Park picks up
Speaker 1: where handsbury story left off, and it takes place entirely
Speaker 1: in the sitting room of the same middle class Chicago
Speaker 1: home the youngers have just fought so when the play
Speaker 1: opens in nineteen fifty nine, it's centered on this middle
Speaker 1: aged married couple Rust and Bev, and they're in the
Speaker 1: process of moving out there, relocating to the suburbs so
Speaker 1: that Rust can be closer to his office. Gradually, though,
Speaker 1: it comes out that they're also just really eager to
Speaker 1: leave behind sad memories they have of this house since
Speaker 1: the death of their Korean War veterans son, and they're
Speaker 1: just ready to get out of their neighborhood and make
Speaker 1: a fresh start. The first act focuses on relations between
Speaker 1: the still Morning family and their black housekeeper, her husband
Speaker 1: a local priest, and Karl Lindner, the in true overly
Speaker 1: formal representative from the neighborhood association. So when Carl shows
Speaker 1: up with his heavily pregnant wife, Betsy, who is also deaf,
Speaker 1: he's just arrived from a Raisin in the sun, so
Speaker 1: kind of stepped off one page into another almost exactly,
Speaker 1: and having failed to convince the unnamed younger family not
Speaker 1: to buy the house, he's come to convince Rust and
Speaker 1: Bev not to sell it. Race money and the ill
Speaker 1: feelings Rusts has felt for the neighborhood since his son
Speaker 1: came home from the war. All come out with this
Speaker 1: yeah and then there's a long intermission where the setting
Speaker 1: is aged fifty years, still the same setting, No, this
Speaker 1: sitting room, it's aged fifty years to a really decrepit state.
Speaker 1: And the play picks up in Act two in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine, and there's this new young family, this time
Speaker 1: a white suburban family looking to move closer to their
Speaker 1: downtown job than their meeting in the sitting room with
Speaker 1: their lawyer and with representatives from the neighborhood association who
Speaker 1: are really concerned about their plan to come into the
Speaker 1: neighborhood tear down this old home and build a new,
Speaker 1: much larger home. And to add to matters, Lena, one
Speaker 1: of the neighbors who's opposing the tear down, was a
Speaker 1: niece of the younger's and remembers playing in the house
Speaker 1: as a girl and knows about its significance as the
Speaker 1: first house in the neighborhood owned by African Americans. Kathy,
Speaker 1: one of the lawyers, is coincidentally the daughter of Carl,
Speaker 1: but seems to know nothing about her family's own involvement
Speaker 1: in the home's history. So again it's a half funny,
Speaker 1: half kind of horribly awkward discussion that ensues about race
Speaker 1: and neighborhoods. So we were interested in hearing a little
Speaker 1: bit more about the historical background of this play, and
Speaker 1: we got a chance to interview the place director Pam McKinnon.
Speaker 1: It was her first time on Broadway, UM, and she
Speaker 1: got all these Tony nominations for her play. But she
Speaker 1: also had a lot to say about, uh, just the
Speaker 1: research that went into something like this where the period
Speaker 1: details have to be so perfect. And here's what she
Speaker 1: had to say. I mean, I definitely had a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations with my set designer about what this house
Speaker 1: would be. Uh. And very lucky for us, my set designer,
Speaker 1: Dan Austlings also nominated for a Tony for his work. UM.
Speaker 1: A friend of his had just bought of a bungalow
Speaker 1: house very much like like what Bruce and Loreen Handsbury
Speaker 1: were describing, in sort of exactly the same like just
Speaker 1: north of downtown Chicago neighborhood and so and they were
Speaker 1: and they were going in doing some pretty major renovations,
Speaker 1: and so Dan was able to be in exactly this
Speaker 1: kind of living room sort of in the state that
Speaker 1: the our second act two thousand and nine was in. UM.
Speaker 1: So that was sort of amazing and just very fortuitous. Um.
Speaker 1: Uh so you know, so so so some you know,
Speaker 1: great research went into that. And then also what what
Speaker 1: would that bungalow house look like in the late fifties? Um,
Speaker 1: you know it was also really exacting period research that
Speaker 1: you know, great designers do. UM. And the same with
Speaker 1: my costume designer figuring out um, you know, people's social
Speaker 1: standing and you know it's a Saturday afternoon in June, Um,
Speaker 1: what are what are people wearing? Um? You know, it's
Speaker 1: also really exacting research. I guess in terms of like
Speaker 1: performance style, something I was really interested in as a
Speaker 1: director to separate um the first act from the second
Speaker 1: act a little bit more was I wanted to embrace um,
Speaker 1: a sort of a sense of theatricality in the first act,
Speaker 1: which for me sort of allowed people to make even
Speaker 1: just like like bigger physical gestures UM, and just sort
Speaker 1: of really embrace what a mid century American road shouldered,
Speaker 1: big boned play can be. And then the second act, UM,
Speaker 1: working with this fact, this fabulous acting company was interested
Speaker 1: in embracing a little bit more sort of the like
Speaker 1: an American realism and American a more contemporary feel. But
Speaker 1: you know, but and then and then all came from
Speaker 1: Bruce's text. Um. You know, it came from the syntax
Speaker 1: that is very different act one to act too, um,
Speaker 1: and and came from the the different rhythms between the
Speaker 1: acts on the topic of Raisin and the sun connection. Specifically,
Speaker 1: when it came to the character of Carl, who appears
Speaker 1: in both that play and Clybrant Park, we really wondered
Speaker 1: how much did McKinnon and actor Jeremy Samos who plays Carl,
Speaker 1: really worry about making the character reminiscent of Handsbury's Carl.
Speaker 1: So the text or the or the or the situation
Speaker 1: that Bruce developed is is completely immersed with Lorraine Hansbury's
Speaker 1: classic play. Um. But what was really interesting, and you know,
Speaker 1: in in no small part that when we first did
Speaker 1: this off Broadway, that we had a really short rehearsal process. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's just the way Off Broadway works. You you
Speaker 1: you you put up these plays very very quickly. That
Speaker 1: that you know, sort of our our job, sort of
Speaker 1: running on adrenaline, was about putting up this play. And
Speaker 1: so yes, there was a ton of research that went
Speaker 1: into what should this house look like, what should these
Speaker 1: people be wearing? But as far as you know, trying
Speaker 1: to like in the used rehearsal hall time to make
Speaker 1: sure that that the Carl Lindner is exactly the same
Speaker 1: Carl Lindner as Lorraine Handsbury's Carl Lindner. That just you know,
Speaker 1: we just and we just didn't get into that. But
Speaker 1: I think Bruce took care of us. The playwrights took
Speaker 1: care of us, and that that um, that Carl's strange, polite, veneer, uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: uh you know, nervous, laugh kind of man that Lorraine
Speaker 1: Handsbury wrote is also very much, very much the character
Speaker 1: that Bruce wrote. So so it was on the page
Speaker 1: to sort of link like in in the most simple way,
Speaker 1: to link those two plays together. So the character of
Speaker 1: Carl really represents maybe the most disconcerting attitude present in
Speaker 1: the play. But what's kind of unique about it is
Speaker 1: that all of the characters, at some point or another,
Speaker 1: at least almost all of them in the nineteen nine
Speaker 1: act and the two thousand nine act say something that
Speaker 1: they really probably shouldn't say, and that lends the whole,
Speaker 1: the whole script to this very uncomfortable sort of feeling.
Speaker 1: There are lots of jokes flying, but there's tension to
Speaker 1: the the entire time, and and things that we wondered
Speaker 1: how people, how people reacted when they saw them in person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she told us about a little bit about some
Speaker 1: of the different performances of the play. And it's actually
Speaker 1: been staged in three different locations she's directed where she's
Speaker 1: exactly two times in New York and two different locations
Speaker 1: and once in l A. And McKennon kind of spoke
Speaker 1: to how the larger Broadway audience seems more inclined to
Speaker 1: laugh and live it up during the play. Seeing a
Speaker 1: Broadway play, she suggests as kind of maybe more about
Speaker 1: having a good time, and maybe audiences are expecting a
Speaker 1: show and they're just ready to laugh. And there's also
Speaker 1: some anonymity there you're with a lot of other people
Speaker 1: who are laughing. But the smaller audiences for the off
Speaker 1: Broadway stagings seemed more likely to take things pretty seriously.
Speaker 1: They seemed to be more there for the theater, maybe
Speaker 1: expecting something more experimental or edgy than chock full of
Speaker 1: laugh They were there almost for the more uncomfortable parts,
Speaker 1: it seemed. McKinnon was also telling us about some of
Speaker 1: the different ways that people react depending on the location
Speaker 1: that the show is too. For example, a line about
Speaker 1: a bad commute got a lot of laughter in l
Speaker 1: A but not quite as much in New York City,
Speaker 1: and a line about installing a Koi pond was a
Speaker 1: big hit in New York City since it lampoons a
Speaker 1: certain type of person. People could identify with it, or
Speaker 1: at least they understood what it was trying to say.
Speaker 1: But yeah, she she said that that line about the
Speaker 1: koi pond didn't really get a laugh at all in
Speaker 1: l A, just because nothing at all seemed strange about
Speaker 1: having a koi pond. Um. But she also talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about how there are certain things she needs
Speaker 1: to make sure of as a director to balance that
Speaker 1: humor and the really uncomfortable issues and make sure that
Speaker 1: those uncomfortable issues still get their play too, because I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what the whole thing is supposed to be about.
Speaker 1: She said that the most important thing she could do
Speaker 1: as a director to strike that balance was to cast
Speaker 1: good actors who had good comic timing but emotional range
Speaker 1: as well. And then she said it's also important as
Speaker 1: a director to orchestrate the dialogue so to pinpoint these
Speaker 1: areas where the actors need to change what she called
Speaker 1: the tempo um so places where the play is going
Speaker 1: full steam ahead with jokes and then something says, somebody
Speaker 1: says something wrong, and the tempo changes. So taking all
Speaker 1: of this into consideration just kind of the balance between
Speaker 1: the seriousness and humor and in different ways that different
Speaker 1: audiences might react to the same lines. It made us
Speaker 1: really curious what message our audiences taking away with them
Speaker 1: after seeing Clyborn Park. And this is what McKinnon told us.
Speaker 1: I think that Bruce isn't a message playwright, and some
Speaker 1: audience members actually find that really difficult. Like they want
Speaker 1: they want there to be a protagonist somewhere in the play,
Speaker 1: or they want some character to ultimately some up there
Speaker 1: ideally liberal point of view, you know, and sort of
Speaker 1: slam dunk, you know, sort of the message at some point.
Speaker 1: And Bruce Norris the playwright doesn't really do that. For us,
Speaker 1: it's more complicated than that. So as soon as you
Speaker 1: sort of think, oh, I'm I'm going to track this
Speaker 1: person and hopefully this person sort of as spirit guide,
Speaker 1: will will agree with my liberal sentiment walking through this world,
Speaker 1: and then he starts going off the rails. It becomes
Speaker 1: very complicated. I mean, I think Bruce's message and and
Speaker 1: what um we like the actors, designers myself included, we're
Speaker 1: just trying to like, like like really honor Bruce's complicated world.
Speaker 1: And I guess the message is we like first the
Speaker 1: first act of the nine the second act in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine, and he really wants an audience to questions
Speaker 1: under you know, how far have we really come when
Speaker 1: it comes to issues of race and real estate, Black
Speaker 1: white issues of race and real estate in this country?
Speaker 1: And perhaps we haven't come that far that this is
Speaker 1: still a topic of conversation, that that we as a
Speaker 1: country don't quite have the tools to really talk about
Speaker 1: displayed largely about in a sexual communication when it comes
Speaker 1: to hot button issues, and we we fall apart, we
Speaker 1: fall apart, we it becomes foot and mouth disease. So
Speaker 1: the message isn't exactly the same. But since this play
Speaker 1: does take some inspiration from Raisin in the Sun, we
Speaker 1: wanted to ask McKennon what she thought Lorraine Handsbury would
Speaker 1: think if Handsbury saw Clybring Park today. I mean, I
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope that Lorraine Hansbury would be very excited,
Speaker 1: like a lot of artists that I know myself included
Speaker 1: that that that that she would be excited that her play,
Speaker 1: you know, continues to inspire other people. Um, Bruce, Bruce
Speaker 1: Norris has a very different voice than Lorraine Hansbury. UM
Speaker 1: raised It in the sun is such a masterful play.
Speaker 1: It is very complicated, but there is there is a
Speaker 1: sense I think coming from the writer that you know
Speaker 1: that that that while it is difficult, that there is
Speaker 1: sort of a there like there is something of an
Speaker 1: optimistic voice or or an optimistic attempt um in in
Speaker 1: that play. And Bruce, I don't think he would call
Speaker 1: himself himself a pessimist, but I think some other people do.
Speaker 1: I think Bruce would call himself, um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: sort of like a like a tricky realist um. And
Speaker 1: that and that optimism isn't there um or or if
Speaker 1: it is, it's in fits and starts and then sort
Speaker 1: of gets denied. So maybe Lorray and Handsbury would you
Speaker 1: know that maybe in at times say oh it makes
Speaker 1: me uncomfortable. But but but I bet she'd embrace it
Speaker 1: as an artist. So we hinted it this a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier in the show that McKinnon has directed this
Speaker 1: play in several different locations, two spots in New York,
Speaker 1: one in l A. But we didn't mention that she's
Speaker 1: been working with the same cast. They've been playing these
Speaker 1: same roles, and you know, I would assume getting very
Speaker 1: deep into character studies by this point. So we wanted
Speaker 1: to ask her how people have changed their roles at
Speaker 1: all over all of this time, how she's changed her
Speaker 1: direction and what kind of direction she still offers at
Speaker 1: this point too, for for people who have been working
Speaker 1: on this for such a long time. And here's what
Speaker 1: she had to say. Well, I you know, I I
Speaker 1: had the opportunity, um to go back into a full
Speaker 1: rehearsal process with these same actors after an almost two
Speaker 1: year break where you know, all of us did many
Speaker 1: other things, but we certainly didn't do anything with Claiborne
Speaker 1: park Um. So I think we all came back sort
Speaker 1: of to the table, you know, really really game like
Speaker 1: we knew that we had created together something very special
Speaker 1: and it was great actually to have that that time
Speaker 1: away from it and to come back I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll just speak for myself, but as a
Speaker 1: stronger director, as a stronger artist, and we got to
Speaker 1: tackle it again. UM. Definitely in the in in the
Speaker 1: process the second go round, I mean we just had
Speaker 1: more time, UM, and we could talk more about backstory
Speaker 1: and you know what what just occurred with these characters,
Speaker 1: and you know, we could be because we already knew,
Speaker 1: we already had built the skeleton, we already knew it worked,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, and so we could, you know, we could
Speaker 1: we could really of luxuriate and just go deeper emotionally UM.
Speaker 1: And earlier talking about like that fine line between the
Speaker 1: humor and you know, and the uglier stuff. I really
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that in the second round the
Speaker 1: uglier stuff was not eclipsed. UM. So that was definitely
Speaker 1: a rehearsal hall project. Since the play has opened on Broadway,
Speaker 1: it opened about, I don't know, three weeks ago, a
Speaker 1: month ago. UM. I've gone back a few times and
Speaker 1: and and the it's it's a it's a cast of
Speaker 1: seven and every night, obviously it is a little bit different.
Speaker 1: Um and and and some and and performances have gotten
Speaker 1: richer and um and and and have changed sort of
Speaker 1: you know, the tiniest bit at the margins and UM.
Speaker 1: I went back last week and I felt that there
Speaker 1: were some changes that that that weren't good. And I
Speaker 1: spoke to um, a couple of my actors and you know,
Speaker 1: and it was it was just like inches, it was
Speaker 1: just by degrees. But but but some of the performances
Speaker 1: had expanded a little bit and had slowed down a
Speaker 1: little bit. And um, and so there was more of
Speaker 1: like at times, more of an even as opposed to
Speaker 1: syncopated tempo in places. And um. And so I had,
Speaker 1: you know, a phone, I had phone conversations with a
Speaker 1: couple of actors about getting it back into shape. And
Speaker 1: instead of making sure that the motor of the play
Speaker 1: was was running at the speed that I think best
Speaker 1: serves the story. UM, so you know, So so I
Speaker 1: will do that. I will drop by, you know, every
Speaker 1: couple of weeks or three weeks or something like that,
Speaker 1: and and UM, hopefully I'll be you know, amazed and
Speaker 1: proud and happy about how stuff gets deeper and richer
Speaker 1: as this great company learns, you know, even more things
Speaker 1: about each other and about this story. But if I
Speaker 1: see something that is sort of like, oh, I think
Speaker 1: we're now missing what what for me is really important
Speaker 1: to to the evening and to the story. I have
Speaker 1: no qualms about about giving a note, even though it's
Speaker 1: long after we're out of rehearsal. And you know, some
Speaker 1: of that also comes from having worked with this group
Speaker 1: and so we trust each other, you know, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that um that if I did that nightly uh,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want to, but it would be very
Speaker 1: annoying and to be very detrimental that every once in
Speaker 1: a while I just sort of, you know, I have
Speaker 1: to reinsert myself if if I need to. So it
Speaker 1: was a treat to get to talk to Pam McKinnon.
Speaker 1: But there's an even cooler treat that listeners can be
Speaker 1: eligible for if they're going to be in the New
Speaker 1: York City area on May thirty one. There's going to
Speaker 1: be kind of a how Stuff Works like experience at
Speaker 1: the performance of Clyburne Park that night, and How Stuff
Speaker 1: Works is giving away twenty five pairs of tick gets,
Speaker 1: And if you're one of those lucky people, lucky fifty
Speaker 1: people who gets to go to that performance that night,
Speaker 1: then after the show, you will get a chance to
Speaker 1: listen to a special talkback session in which someone will
Speaker 1: actually take contest winners through the set and how it
Speaker 1: transforms from nineteen fifty nine to two thousand nine. And
Speaker 1: that's a transformation that McKennon really likes to keep under
Speaker 1: wraps during typical performances. She told us a little bit
Speaker 1: about why keeping that hidden is so special to her.
Speaker 1: I have a black curtain that UM goes down to
Speaker 1: the end of the first act and hides the huge
Speaker 1: seamed the huge scenic shift that our stage hands do
Speaker 1: UM during the intermission, and you know the intermission. It
Speaker 1: takes them about sixteen minutes to transform the Act one
Speaker 1: set into the Act two set. It takes them the
Speaker 1: entire intermission to do all this work. UM. Like staircase
Speaker 1: units get old rolled away, fireplace units get turned around. UM. Uh.
Speaker 1: Wallpaper that is is on like hard sheets that stuck
Speaker 1: to magnets pop off. The new things pop on. UM. Windows,
Speaker 1: seats get transformed, window treatments get transformed, bars go on windows,
Speaker 1: front doors get get changed out. UM. It's it's a
Speaker 1: it's it's a really big thing. But I obscure that
Speaker 1: from the audience with the curtain. And that's a story
Speaker 1: choice of mine of UM. Even though now this play
Speaker 1: has been published for a while and it won the Pulitzer,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people know that we're moving ahead
Speaker 1: in time. There's still a certain percentage of the audience
Speaker 1: that doesn't know. And I sort of love the reveal
Speaker 1: of whoa, Okay, we're in a different world in Act two. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now that you've heard what you would get to
Speaker 1: see if you were backstage, um, and you've learned a
Speaker 1: little bit about Clyburn Park and its history. Remember you
Speaker 1: can enter for those tickets, twenty five pairs of tickets. Um,
Speaker 1: there are sweet Steaks is going to be starting May
Speaker 1: twenty one and go on that week. And you can
Speaker 1: find out more information about it by looking on the
Speaker 1: how stuff Works Twitter account, not the mist in History one.
Speaker 1: Don't go to ours, you won't find information there, but
Speaker 1: the main house stuff Works account, which is at how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. And good luck to you if you're in
Speaker 1: the New York area. Maybe we'll get to see this
Speaker 1: place some day to pleina, I hope. So I'm actually
Speaker 1: quite jealous. I wish that we're not eligible for this,
Speaker 1: so we can't enter the contest unfortunately, and when the
Speaker 1: tickets and get this experience, But if you get to
Speaker 1: do it, please tell us how it is. Just let
Speaker 1: us know how it goes. We'd love to hear about
Speaker 1: the live show and all of the back stage stuff,
Speaker 1: so email us. We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com.
Speaker 1: And again, you can enter that contest at the how
Speaker 1: stuff works Twitter account. Thanks guys for more on this
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because at how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot com. The Baden named the Land. Baden named the
Speaker 1: Land in n