Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening to stuff Mom
Speaker 1: never told you. Now today, I have a little bit
Speaker 1: of a personal gripe, but this episode is based on,
Speaker 1: which is that I bought what I thought was a beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful skirt. I couldn't wait to try it on. It
Speaker 1: was pretty expensive, more money than I usually drop on
Speaker 1: an outfit I get at home, and it has those
Speaker 1: damn decorative pockets, but aren't even really real pockets where
Speaker 1: they like the ones that are so shut. They're just
Speaker 1: like not even they give you a little dip and
Speaker 1: it's not you can't put anything in there, So they're
Speaker 1: just for fashion. They're just decorative, decorative pockets, decorative pocket
Speaker 1: because god forbid I have anything to carry a phone on,
Speaker 1: a pencil or whatever. And it got me thinking, where
Speaker 1: are the are the pockets on women's clothing? What is
Speaker 1: going on? Where do they? Where did we go? And
Speaker 1: on the other side, I'm the kind of person who
Speaker 1: if I'm in the fitting room trying an address, especially
Speaker 1: formal addresses, I found this in more formal gowns especially,
Speaker 1: and I'm on the fence about it looks good fits,
Speaker 1: good fabrics, cool, Okay, I kind of like it, and
Speaker 1: then I realized as my hands go down the sort
Speaker 1: of waste of the gown itself. Oh my god, there
Speaker 1: are pockets in this dress. Instantly sold. Pockets are such
Speaker 1: a game changer. There's a total apparel game changer decision making,
Speaker 1: like absolutely going from the maybe category to the hell yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm bringing that home category. I don't feel like we're
Speaker 1: exaggerating the extreme pleasure that pockets on garments, real pockets,
Speaker 1: functional pockets give us. And we're backpack love and women.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like we're without a good satchel
Speaker 1: on occasion. I'm not really a purse totor as much
Speaker 1: anymore since I discovered the love of a good formal backpack,
Speaker 1: which you you that I was a little plug for.
Speaker 1: If you are a sporty gal, get yourself a apolished backpack,
Speaker 1: a work backpack and love. So, first of all, I
Speaker 1: get it. Yes, this is totally totally a first world problem.
Speaker 1: You might be thinking, you know, bridget of all the
Speaker 1: things going on in the world right now, pockets really,
Speaker 1: but listen to this. Fashion is actually political, right, Like
Speaker 1: most things in this day and age, It's not just fashion.
Speaker 1: It's not just a skirt. It's not just a pocket.
Speaker 1: It's actually political, and like many things, it does raise
Speaker 1: I think some interesting points of that gender. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: if you look at the consumer data, if you really
Speaker 1: think about the economics of fashion and apparel, women are
Speaker 1: the ones making those decisions in the fitting rooms more
Speaker 1: than men. Quite frankly, women are the biggest spenders when
Speaker 1: it comes to fashion. Women of every age group consistently
Speaker 1: outspend their male counterparts on apparel. According to the Sage
Speaker 1: Business Researcher back in fifteen, the average annual expenditures when
Speaker 1: it comes to how much you're spending money on clothing
Speaker 1: peaked for both groups in the thirty five to forty
Speaker 1: four age range. Oh so I have more spending ahead
Speaker 1: you women. I'm a vestip shop any be shopping. We're
Speaker 1: the women spending so one thousand, five one dollars a
Speaker 1: year and men spending nine sixty one. Those are kind
Speaker 1: of big numbers. Are kind of big numbers. So women,
Speaker 1: women be shopping. We were the biggest consumers when it
Speaker 1: comes to fashion. We spend the most money. And that's
Speaker 1: why I think it's so frustrating that these retailers are
Speaker 1: still not giving us products that fit for our lives
Speaker 1: and are functional for our bodies. I think you see
Speaker 1: that in a whole different way when it comes to
Speaker 1: plus size women in the clothing options that are available
Speaker 1: to them. But even something as small as pockets, I
Speaker 1: think really demonstrates how this industry that is dominated by
Speaker 1: women consumers and should be giving us things that fit
Speaker 1: our lives and our needs, it's just really failing. Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's that fashion over function for warm, right, It's
Speaker 1: this decision someone is making that I think it's important
Speaker 1: for us that our clothes are fashionable. I think consumers
Speaker 1: care about fashion, but somebody is saying fashion is more
Speaker 1: important than function. Well, actually, Emily, a lot of experts
Speaker 1: out there would agree with you. One reason why people
Speaker 1: say that there are so few pockets of women's clothing
Speaker 1: is because mid range fashion, that stuff like you and
Speaker 1: I are probably wearing a lot of, you know, your
Speaker 1: gaps and your j cruse, those are actually dominated by
Speaker 1: male designers, and male designers are much more concerned with
Speaker 1: things like fit and drape than functionality. Over at the Atlantic,
Speaker 1: they interviewed Camilla Olsen, who is a creative director of
Speaker 1: a high tech fashion firm, and she says that there's
Speaker 1: inherent sexism within the industry that keeps things like pockets
Speaker 1: and other functional garments being standard in women's clothing. She
Speaker 1: goes on to say, Honestly, I believe the fashion industry
Speaker 1: is not helping women advance, and the lack of functional
Speaker 1: design for women is one example. We women know that
Speaker 1: clearly we need pockets to carry technology, and I think
Speaker 1: it's expected that we were going to carry a purse
Speaker 1: when they're working. We don't, okay, persons around a pocket
Speaker 1: is a reasonable thing. And so I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: how she makes this point that because of the heavy
Speaker 1: male dominated fashion industry, women aren't getting clothing that's actually
Speaker 1: functional for us to live our lives. That's so sad.
Speaker 1: It seems like such a missed opportunity. And yet again,
Speaker 1: if you look at every industry, once you get to
Speaker 1: the top ranks, like the director ranks of pretty much
Speaker 1: every industry, you start to see women become fewer and
Speaker 1: farther between. And even though there are some notable exceptions,
Speaker 1: I think Jenna Lyons was a really noteworthy creative director
Speaker 1: who put Jaku on the map quite frankly in the
Speaker 1: odds right, Um, it's so true that even in the
Speaker 1: female dominated spaces like retail, when you look at the
Speaker 1: creative directors who are wielding the most power making the
Speaker 1: biggest decisions that influence the direction of design, they're still
Speaker 1: predominantly male. Yeah. What a mismatch between the audience that
Speaker 1: you're trying to serve and the decision makers. Because how
Speaker 1: could an industry that purports to serve women have so
Speaker 1: few women at the at the highest highest levels and
Speaker 1: get it so wrong when it comes to giving us
Speaker 1: things that we actually can use. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it's I think it's yet another case for wide diversity
Speaker 1: and leadership is actually good for business. Definitely. Do you
Speaker 1: wear a lot of J Crew. I don't own a
Speaker 1: single piece of Jake. Here's my beef with J Crew.
Speaker 1: I used to love J Crew when it was cool,
Speaker 1: functional things that fit. Now I feel like I go
Speaker 1: in there and everything is like embellished. I'm like, how
Speaker 1: do I watch this? It will be like a shirt
Speaker 1: that has bedazzled stuff on it, and I'm like, how
Speaker 1: do I watch this? Is my first thought whenever I
Speaker 1: pick up something from Anthropology or Jay Crew these days.
Speaker 1: And Yeah, and you were not missing anything other than
Speaker 1: having clothes that are dirty forever in your closet because
Speaker 1: you can't wash them. I seem to recall a Fabreeze
Speaker 1: conversation we've had on there. There was a Fabrize conversation
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that was a J Crew garment in question.
Speaker 1: So let's get this straight. Bridget doesn't wash her hoodies.
Speaker 1: She for breezes her hoodies, and Ergenes doesn't wash her jeans,
Speaker 1: and now all of your other garments from an anthropology
Speaker 1: and I'm not doing any laundry. You're like, I'm piecing together.
Speaker 1: You're just not watching anything. I approved that message, girl.
Speaker 1: I know you know what I think I just thought
Speaker 1: of as we were planning for this episode. It didn't
Speaker 1: come up. But I'm going to sound like a walking
Speaker 1: talking ad for one of our sponsores right now. But
Speaker 1: how is the rental clothing industry changing this? Because I mean,
Speaker 1: I looked at that number, fift dollars expenditure a year
Speaker 1: and I'm like, get on that Latote bandwagon right like,
Speaker 1: where clear the Litote sponsors our podcast? And I'm also,
Speaker 1: where did you get that jacket? I've always send to
Speaker 1: toe and lttote right now, but between rents the runway
Speaker 1: and litote and subscription rental services like that. You never
Speaker 1: have to do launching again, well not even that, I don't, yes,
Speaker 1: because you can send your clothes back dirty, which is
Speaker 1: part of the perk. And furthermore, I don't spend on
Speaker 1: I don't buy clothes anymore. I just rent. I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like Netflix for clothes. Yes, I like it anyway.
Speaker 1: So that's why I haven't stepped footing in an anthropology
Speaker 1: in a deck in. At a certain point, I wonder
Speaker 1: if it's sort of we're going culturally, We're going less
Speaker 1: toward owning and more toward renting things like you know,
Speaker 1: why have a car where you can use lift? Why?
Speaker 1: You know? It's it seems like that like we're heading
Speaker 1: towards that as a culture in some weird way sharing
Speaker 1: economy for sure. And I wonder if that's a net
Speaker 1: positive for the environmental impact of clothing. Do you think
Speaker 1: people throw out tons of clothes all the time because
Speaker 1: this is like up cycling? Oh yeah, well actually, Emily,
Speaker 1: the average American talks about eighty two pounds of textile
Speaker 1: waste each year, which adds up to eleven million tons
Speaker 1: from just our country, just from America that a lot
Speaker 1: of clothing being thrown out. Wow. So I just I
Speaker 1: think the sharing economy can sort of be part and
Speaker 1: parcel with this minimalist movement, and I wonder how that
Speaker 1: will impact the way that designers are making clothing design decisions.
Speaker 1: I hope we'll see more pockets. Maybe I can have
Speaker 1: a small influence by just renting things with pockets, Like,
Speaker 1: it's very cool you're doing part. If you're doing your
Speaker 1: part for pocket equality, you know. I wish I could
Speaker 1: show you all the jacket and wearing right now. It's
Speaker 1: got some deep pockets. It's got deep pockets, and it's
Speaker 1: super chic and functional and by the way, it's reversible. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, sponsors, give us more. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you know what you look like right now that you
Speaker 1: ever watched The Fresh Prince how he turns his jacket
Speaker 1: inside out, his uniform jacket, That's exactly what's happening right now.
Speaker 1: It's got like a leather shoulder decals and now on
Speaker 1: the inside feels like this nice little like pad like
Speaker 1: shoulder pad. It's cute, right, this is now a jacket
Speaker 1: centric podcast. Sorry, they're like what are you dragging about?
Speaker 1: We can't see we'll post. Okay, good, I'm ready. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting that you say that this minimalist sort of
Speaker 1: sharing economy, um cultural thing might be influencing our fashion.
Speaker 1: Another thing that has really been influential on whether or
Speaker 1: not garments of pockets is technology. So back when the
Speaker 1: iPhone six came out, you might remember, it's pretty pretty large,
Speaker 1: and most men's garments actually had pockets where you could
Speaker 1: put your iPhone in, but women's garments really didn't. And
Speaker 1: so when the iPhone came out, the new big one,
Speaker 1: a lot of people were like, yeah, like, I can't
Speaker 1: put this in my pocket. What am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to carry it in my hand or
Speaker 1: put it in my bag or whatever. And actually, mash
Speaker 1: double talked to five different fashion brands Levi's, l L,
Speaker 1: beIN J Crew, American Eagle, and Lee to ask them
Speaker 1: if this new iPhone was going to have them adding
Speaker 1: bigger pockets to their women's garments. Most of them gave
Speaker 1: some kind of variation of maybe, we'll see, but for
Speaker 1: the most part the answer was a no. I wonder
Speaker 1: if they did, though, because I am a gap gene
Speaker 1: loyalist because once I found a pair of jeans that
Speaker 1: actually fit my body, I was like, Okay, I'm done
Speaker 1: shopping around because this is hard. But I've split a
Speaker 1: few pairs of pockets like jeans in my time because
Speaker 1: I do have the Giant, I have the Giant plus
Speaker 1: the six plus and the back. The front pocket is
Speaker 1: a non starter, right, not not going in there, Not
Speaker 1: going in there. But I had a whole appear because
Speaker 1: I was shoving my Giant phone in my butt pocket
Speaker 1: and it definitely was not fitting. But I like, forced it. Oh,
Speaker 1: don't force it, touche I. I have since found that
Speaker 1: the genes as of late, the ones I've bought in
Speaker 1: the last maybe three or four years have worked fine.
Speaker 1: I really do feel like putting an iPhone in your
Speaker 1: back pocket is a recipe for it falling into the
Speaker 1: toilet in a public race room. So I'm I'm very
Speaker 1: skeptical about putting anything back there. Your case is gigantic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually have the smaller version of the iPhone, but
Speaker 1: my huge, ostentatious phone case makes it impossible to put
Speaker 1: in any kind of pocket whatsoever. Now it's not happening,
Speaker 1: not happening what would you say is in your pockets
Speaker 1: on average, like the functional garments with pockets, Like what
Speaker 1: might you find in a bridget Todd pocket. Well, I've
Speaker 1: actually kind of trained myself to not carry a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff if I don't have my backpack on me,
Speaker 1: so usually like I'll do debit card, I D chapstick keys,
Speaker 1: like I'm oh, headphones, So I'm I'm down to this
Speaker 1: five staples I traveled like and headphones like the the
Speaker 1: earbuds can fit into the front pocket. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: I'm a chapstick person too. One of the things I
Speaker 1: think is kind of interesting is how the ability of
Speaker 1: men to be able to carry things like cell phones
Speaker 1: and women not really having that option for their pockets
Speaker 1: might play out in the workplace. The article that I
Speaker 1: it's referenced from The Atlantic makes this point pretty succinctly.
Speaker 1: They say a man can simply swipe up his keys
Speaker 1: and an iPhone on the way to a rendezvous with
Speaker 1: his coworkers and slip them back into his pocket. A
Speaker 1: woman on the way to that same meeting has to
Speaker 1: either carry those items in her hand or bring a
Speaker 1: whole purse with her. A definitive silent sign that she
Speaker 1: is a woman. So what you're basically saying is that
Speaker 1: there's this added visual acknowledgement of gender differences, which we
Speaker 1: actually know if you look at the research on uh,
Speaker 1: there's some interesting research that's been done on perfumes. Perfumes
Speaker 1: that are especially feminine that sort of just provide a
Speaker 1: little sensory reminder of your womanhood can backfire in interviews. Interesting,
Speaker 1: so even though it seems really small, like a tiny detail,
Speaker 1: it can still sort of come up in ways that
Speaker 1: you maybe you don't expect. Well, it sort of gives
Speaker 1: you this impression, Oh, she's a girly girl, or the
Speaker 1: purse can be like, what kind of purse is it?
Speaker 1: Is she a kind of woman who has a nice
Speaker 1: purse that she takes care of, or like me, trashes
Speaker 1: every person she's ever owned because I can't seem to
Speaker 1: keep any of my belongings in nice shape, and what
Speaker 1: does that say about her? It's just another way for
Speaker 1: people to judge you. Interesting. This is kind of a
Speaker 1: random anecdote, but I have a friend who is a
Speaker 1: military wife, and one of the things that she says
Speaker 1: of all that sort of hurtful, ridiculous stereotypes about military wives.
Speaker 1: One of them that I found the most curious was
Speaker 1: if she owns a coach bag, that means like that
Speaker 1: the stereotype is that means something about what kind of
Speaker 1: military spouse that she is, which I found very unusual.
Speaker 1: It's such a specific thing, oh, because it plays into
Speaker 1: the fact that like military wives are just leeches benefits
Speaker 1: of like the governments exactly. So yeah, so they say, like,
Speaker 1: if a woman has a coach bag and she's trying
Speaker 1: to you know, she's a military spouse, that means that
Speaker 1: she's YadA yadd some some negative stereotype there. So it's
Speaker 1: interesting how these markers of femininity, even though they seem
Speaker 1: quite small or quite you know, like they're not deals,
Speaker 1: actually people can use them to make unfair assumptions about
Speaker 1: what kind of person you are exactly. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good point. And I also, on the flip side, have
Speaker 1: bonded with many a strong, powerful, influential woman over purses.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I mean, Like in our own
Speaker 1: company here, I was, well, there's a certain someone in
Speaker 1: the higher highest ranks of leadership and how stuff works
Speaker 1: who is a boss lady all shout out to the
Speaker 1: fact that we've got women running thanks running things that
Speaker 1: have stuff works, one of whom is like intimidating, lee,
Speaker 1: powerful and awesome. And I met her in a very
Speaker 1: formal boardroom like setting when I was just interviewing for
Speaker 1: this particular job, and I'm trying my best to be
Speaker 1: impressive and articulate and also humble and courteous and respectful
Speaker 1: all the same time. And uh, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a pretty formal exchange until we met up again later
Speaker 1: in a less formal setting at the bar, and my
Speaker 1: ostentatious turquoise purse became the thing we bonded over. And
Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh, I'm in we got this, We
Speaker 1: got this relationship on lack and look at where we
Speaker 1: are now. Yeah, it seems like it worked out well.
Speaker 1: It didn't work out well. So it's just an interesting
Speaker 1: thing how in a male dominated space, your purse might
Speaker 1: be something that holds you back, but when you're when
Speaker 1: we have more women in leadership, maybe purses can. Like
Speaker 1: you and I've bonded over backpacks, Maybe purses can actually
Speaker 1: be a way to bond with one another. Well, it's
Speaker 1: interesting that you bring up purses because the history of
Speaker 1: the handbag actually has a lot to do with why
Speaker 1: the pockets on women's garments tend to be so sucky.
Speaker 1: And let's dive into that after this quick break, and
Speaker 1: we're back now. I know that I've been complaining about
Speaker 1: pockets today, and maybe you've been complaining about the pockets
Speaker 1: on your garment, but women have actually been complaining about
Speaker 1: the lack of pockets on their clothing. For quine of
Speaker 1: a long time back in Charlotte P. Gilman wrote, one
Speaker 1: supremacy there is in men's clothing is adaptatitions of pockets.
Speaker 1: Show this in The New York Times. She continues to say,
Speaker 1: women have, from time to time carried bags, sometimes sewn in,
Speaker 1: sometimes tied on, sometimes brandished in the hand. But a
Speaker 1: bag is not a pocket, and she's rights in Christian
Speaker 1: Duor was quoted in the Spectator of saying men have
Speaker 1: pockets to keep things in women for decoration, because God forbid,
Speaker 1: I have an important thing to keep on my person. Well,
Speaker 1: it's just like it kind of reminds me of the
Speaker 1: biking episode, in which it is a very systematic discrepancy
Speaker 1: between it being socially acceptable for you to actually have
Speaker 1: the freedom that comes with riding a bike versus women
Speaker 1: who ride bikes seem like, oh, they could be up
Speaker 1: to anything. Well, you actually see a lot of that
Speaker 1: same idea playing out when it comes to the history
Speaker 1: of pockets and women totally. Back in the medieval era,
Speaker 1: most women had little bags or sort of satchels or
Speaker 1: purses tied around the waste that eventually folks began sort
Speaker 1: of hiding their bags under petticoats, which was a discreet
Speaker 1: way to say I have things, right, I'm a woman
Speaker 1: who owns stuff, and might you know, have whatever I
Speaker 1: damn well please in my pockets. But I wouldn't ever
Speaker 1: brandish those pockets basically in public, visible to all. That
Speaker 1: would make me a radical woman. And in the late
Speaker 1: seventeenth century, even when pockets became much more commonplace and
Speaker 1: sewed into men's clothing, women did not have built in
Speaker 1: pockets because that would have been taboo. So they continued
Speaker 1: to have these sort of tied on versions until the
Speaker 1: French Revolution really changed the game when wide skirts were
Speaker 1: out out with let them eat cake style of the
Speaker 1: French Revolution, and what became much more in vogue were
Speaker 1: skirts closer to the body, sort of less flamboyant really,
Speaker 1: so there was less room for pockets, so that whole
Speaker 1: pocket conversation became null and void for women who continued
Speaker 1: to harry the reticule, a small decorative purse instead of
Speaker 1: God forbid they should go out in public with pockets,
Speaker 1: because they would be outing themselves as a woman with things,
Speaker 1: maybe having things of her own. God, heaven forbid you
Speaker 1: have to carry things and be a woman. What I
Speaker 1: love is that in the eighteen hundreds, the Irrational Dress
Speaker 1: Society began pushing for women to abandon the stiffness. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's for looser clothes that had lots and lots of pockets. Radical, radical,
Speaker 1: can you imagine? Founded in eighteen nine, the Rational Dress
Speaker 1: Society called for women to dress for health, ditching corsets
Speaker 1: in favor of boneless days and bloomers, wearing loose trousers,
Speaker 1: and adopting clothing that allowed for movement, especially bicycling. So
Speaker 1: it is connected, it is, It's very much connected. It's
Speaker 1: very much connected. An eighteen New York Times piece made
Speaker 1: this really really funny many sort of tongue in cheek
Speaker 1: claim that civilization itself is actually founded on pockets. They write,
Speaker 1: as we became more civilized, we need more pockets. No
Speaker 1: pocketless people have ever been great since pockets were invent
Speaker 1: it and the female sex cannot rival us while it
Speaker 1: is pocketless. So basically this was like a very overt
Speaker 1: and clearly insecure male person saying, um, you know, let's
Speaker 1: keep women out of power, let's not allow them to
Speaker 1: have pockets. I've often and this is not our research point,
Speaker 1: it's just my own opinion. I've often not that heels
Speaker 1: with the same way, right, while women are tottering around
Speaker 1: on heels, we'll keep them well. Then used to wear
Speaker 1: heels all the time during the American Revolution, right, So
Speaker 1: if you think about it, men ditched heels, kicked off
Speaker 1: the heels, and women's heels got taller. I almost wonder
Speaker 1: if the men were like, hey, we're having trouble getting
Speaker 1: from point A to point B on these heels. This
Speaker 1: is dumb. Let's wear regular shoes and then pressure women
Speaker 1: into wearing heels. I think that's the next episode, right,
Speaker 1: I think you have to do on our how a
Speaker 1: tire got gendered, because think about it, like, did you
Speaker 1: know that for button up shirts, men's buttons are on
Speaker 1: one side and women's buttons are on the other, Like
Speaker 1: there are so many weird little particulars about gendered clothing
Speaker 1: that have these fascinating histories. Oh my gosh, let's do
Speaker 1: more on that. I love that. So just bringing it
Speaker 1: back to pockets for a second, this idea of pockets
Speaker 1: for women was a total game changer for gun toten
Speaker 1: bike riding women, which I thought was amazing. Back in
Speaker 1: eight one designer of women's bicycle costumes, which were what
Speaker 1: they were called at the time, the things that these
Speaker 1: daring women who biked might actually wear even included pockets
Speaker 1: for pistols. Quote. Not all of them want to carry
Speaker 1: a revolver, said the anonymous tailor, quoted by the New
Speaker 1: York Times at the time. But a large percentage do,
Speaker 1: and make no bones about saying so. Even when they
Speaker 1: do not tell me why they want the pocket, they
Speaker 1: often betray their purpose by asking to have it lined
Speaker 1: with duck or leather. So basically, this tailor is like
Speaker 1: sewing in duck lined pockets for these women on bicycles
Speaker 1: to carry their handguns with them. And you've got I mean,
Speaker 1: you've got to hand it to these pistol packing bike
Speaker 1: riding turn of the centry women in bloomers and split
Speaker 1: skirt suits because they're right to vote. You know, granted
Speaker 1: in the Nineteenth Amendment was still twenty six years away
Speaker 1: when these women were practicing their Second Amendment rights. Well,
Speaker 1: what I love about this is that it almost goes
Speaker 1: back to our episode about biking and that are all
Speaker 1: sort of connected to this idea of freedom where they
Speaker 1: can have free reign. Men don't know what they're getting
Speaker 1: up to where they're going, and it's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: a woman that's got to carry and stuff to do
Speaker 1: it coulis to be Yeah, and I've got pockets and
Speaker 1: you don't need to get to know what's inside of
Speaker 1: them exactly. It really comes down to being a symbol
Speaker 1: of freedom and mobility. Isn't it funny though, that like
Speaker 1: a pocket was considered so much more suspicious than a purse.
Speaker 1: What the hell, I'm not a gun owner, but I
Speaker 1: would imagine you'd be a lot more likely to put
Speaker 1: a gun in, yeah, a boot. Think about the West,
Speaker 1: you know, the women of the West. They all are
Speaker 1: packing pistols and their stockings. Sounds like our next episode.
Speaker 1: All I can think about right now are the women
Speaker 1: of West World, which we could we should unpack that series.
Speaker 1: I haven't seeking at a KSh up on it that
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. Okay, I gotta this is my next, my
Speaker 1: next show it. So again you have pockets playing out
Speaker 1: through all these different parts of history when it comes
Speaker 1: to women. Um, pockets were a big, big part of
Speaker 1: the Suffragette movement. If you think about those white Suffragette
Speaker 1: suits that are that our sisters used to wear a
Speaker 1: lot of times those head pockets. In nineteen ten, the
Speaker 1: New York Times had a headline that said, blenty of
Speaker 1: pockets in the Suffragette suit, and it really makes the
Speaker 1: point that pockets is connected to voting or being someone
Speaker 1: that's interested in voting. The article goes on to say
Speaker 1: it has pockets of plenty, and it's exactly what you'd
Speaker 1: expect for a woman with polls on her mind. I
Speaker 1: love it. And they go on to say that it's
Speaker 1: all within sight and the things in her pockets would
Speaker 1: be easy to find even for the wearer. So I
Speaker 1: just think it's funny that what's radical about that is
Speaker 1: like someone is daring to wear pockets in broad daylight
Speaker 1: and broad daylight, like, what what are they doing? Right?
Speaker 1: You don't know, you don't know. So if you want
Speaker 1: to pick a deep dive into the history of pockets.
Speaker 1: I definitely recommend this really long throw article un Racked.
Speaker 1: One of the points they made about pockets and the
Speaker 1: suffragets is that there was a kind of anxiety around
Speaker 1: women that had pockets. They right, this last bit about visible,
Speaker 1: straightforward pockets hinted all the lingering anxiety over women's clothing, privacy,
Speaker 1: and property. It's not merely that women will strut with
Speaker 1: their hands in their pockets on point the challenge men,
Speaker 1: It's that women's pockets could carry something secret, something private,
Speaker 1: something deadly. Yeah, you never thought about pockets as being
Speaker 1: this mysterious. I mean, we just carry chapstick in ours,
Speaker 1: but you don't know what we got in there. You know.
Speaker 1: It makes me feel like I need to get some
Speaker 1: more edgy pocket filler items, Like maybe my chapstick is
Speaker 1: disappointing a little when when you think about that some
Speaker 1: women were expressly using pockets to carry guns. Your chapstick
Speaker 1: seems a little bit wimpy, right, Not that we're saying like,
Speaker 1: go lock and load in your pockets. Get ready, patriarchy
Speaker 1: and we should do an episode women in gun control.
Speaker 1: That's a whole that's a good one. So I really like,
Speaker 1: it's interesting how something as small as pockets actually has
Speaker 1: this really dense political and gendered history. But you know,
Speaker 1: why do we even think about women's clothing versus men's
Speaker 1: clothing in the first place. Let's talk more about that
Speaker 1: after this quick break and we're back talking about men's
Speaker 1: pockets versus women's pockets. But really, what's the big deal
Speaker 1: with gendered clothing anyway? Like, why do we have clothing
Speaker 1: that's this kind of way for men and this kind
Speaker 1: of way for women. That doesn't seem to be the
Speaker 1: way that gender plays out, And so it's interesting that
Speaker 1: that's the way that it plays out when it comes
Speaker 1: to clothing. I mean, we've seen the rebellion on the
Speaker 1: toy aisle, right, We've seen how the Pink Barbie aisle
Speaker 1: and the Blue Boys Toys aisle have become a thing
Speaker 1: of the past. And I love seeing that retailers are
Speaker 1: starting to question whether these strict binary sections for women's
Speaker 1: versus men's clothing really makes sense anymore. And I would
Speaker 1: I mean, I would argue that most of our listeners
Speaker 1: to identify as women shop in the women's department, and
Speaker 1: the question is, like, should there be a women's department.
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. I mean, we know gender isn't
Speaker 1: a binary, so it seems like we should stop treating
Speaker 1: clothes like their binary. I actually do wear a lot
Speaker 1: of men's clothing because my style icons are probably James
Speaker 1: Dean and Pugsley Adams from the Atoms and Way sort
Speaker 1: of if they had a kid and that kid wore
Speaker 1: a lot of black. So yeah, I definitely am down
Speaker 1: with a little bit of um, you know, unisex clothing.
Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting how you see big retailers
Speaker 1: who can really be shaping how these industries think about
Speaker 1: gender and clothing, saying no, we're gonna move away from
Speaker 1: gendered things and have a more unisex vibe. Self Ridges,
Speaker 1: a high end department store in the UK, announced that
Speaker 1: it was getting rid of gendered floors and it would
Speaker 1: just have three floors of fashion merchandise together so that
Speaker 1: customers could shop according to their own self expression. And
Speaker 1: other high end designers like J. W. Anderson, Rick Owens
Speaker 1: and rad Harani have championed gender neutral clothing and the
Speaker 1: approaches filtered down to the high street sort of H
Speaker 1: and M and Zara, which have both created non gendered ranges,
Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting because a androgynous style
Speaker 1: has always been a mainstay on the runway, right, I
Speaker 1: mean you've even seen it more like on the runway
Speaker 1: these days. You've seen a lot of notable examples of
Speaker 1: people just having you know, more androgynous style, which I
Speaker 1: always thought was really cool, really cool. And I really
Speaker 1: think that the hipster moment was a turning point because
Speaker 1: hipster fashion, as cliche as it has become, that sort
Speaker 1: of Brooklyn beanie wearing hip look looks very identical when
Speaker 1: expressed by someone who identifies as a man versus a woman,
Speaker 1: and there was sort of this weird backlash I think
Speaker 1: when hipster style became more mainstream, which was that you've
Speaker 1: stolen the look of lesbians, or that you've stolen this
Speaker 1: look from like the Game movie. And I wonder if
Speaker 1: like the mains dreaming of gender neutral dress is a
Speaker 1: co opting Oh that's fascinating of like LGBT style or
Speaker 1: is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing?
Speaker 1: Just the thing that's happening. I don't know. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: will say that when so I came of age and
Speaker 1: like the scene st hipster time, if you remember that time,
Speaker 1: it was the Alt adds, so we were all dressing
Speaker 1: kind of weird, low slung jeans. But I remember when
Speaker 1: skinny genes became a thing, my then boyfriend was wearing
Speaker 1: my jeans. We were just like staring. We were just
Speaker 1: like wearing each other's jeans, which I love. Yeah, Brad,
Speaker 1: and I still do that. I actually lent a guy
Speaker 1: a pair of jeans. I don't think I ever got
Speaker 1: those back. Well. I really hope that this pushed towards
Speaker 1: unisex and gender neutral clothing will get us the pocket
Speaker 1: equality we all know, we all deserve, yes, because pockets
Speaker 1: are functional as they are fashionable. The idea of adding
Speaker 1: pockets to something for the look without the functionality makes
Speaker 1: me want to tear my hair out. So I would
Speaker 1: rather see retailers just chewing pockets altogether, then adding a
Speaker 1: stupid decorative pocket just to create frustration and disappointment. In
Speaker 1: bridget Todd specifically, yeah, yeah, save you the trouble, because
Speaker 1: we all know. You know, when you try on a
Speaker 1: dress and it has really good, deep, functional pockets, it
Speaker 1: is the best. I love how Tracy Moore put it
Speaker 1: over at jez Bell and trust me, this is gonna
Speaker 1: sound like an exaggeration, but I don't believe it is,
Speaker 1: because this is how much I appreciate good pockets. Humor me.
Speaker 1: I want you to remember the last time you bought
Speaker 1: a piece of clothing with pockets, real ones, usable ones,
Speaker 1: ones that fit things like the standard night out keys phone,
Speaker 1: I D lip gloss compact. It's a rare thin no,
Speaker 1: maybe an a line dress or skirt, something vintage with
Speaker 1: a full bodied lower half. And the moment you discovered
Speaker 1: that not only was the fabric perfect, the fit amazing,
Speaker 1: but there were actual functioning pockets. Let me ask you,
Speaker 1: was it not the greatest moment of your life? Did
Speaker 1: it not add a skip to your step? Were you
Speaker 1: not astonished each time you reach down and slid your
Speaker 1: hands into the outrageously useful fabric compartment? When women complimented
Speaker 1: you on the outfit, do not reveal to them with
Speaker 1: exclamatory glee that it also possessed something unexpected and lovely
Speaker 1: And was that thing not pockets? I think that is
Speaker 1: so true because you're on the dance floor and someone's like,
Speaker 1: nice dress, and you're like, no, you don't understand this.
Speaker 1: This thing has pockets. It has pockets, like check it out, Like,
Speaker 1: you don't even know how great this romper is, girl,
Speaker 1: let me show you. Okay, pockets full on pockets. It
Speaker 1: makes you want to empty them out and like turn
Speaker 1: them in inside out. I gotten this pocket many. I
Speaker 1: have had many a drunken night in a lady's room
Speaker 1: at a nightclub where I'm like, check out these Oh
Speaker 1: you think this is a nice dress? Check it out
Speaker 1: like it's like you're it's like the bass drop on
Speaker 1: the n And they're always like they always get women
Speaker 1: when it comes to pockets. Women always get it. And
Speaker 1: then it becomes where did you get this? We need
Speaker 1: this in my life? Yes, yeah, that's so true. It's
Speaker 1: bonding over pockets. Well, smithy listeners, I hope that we
Speaker 1: just bonded over pockets. I know you and I just
Speaker 1: bonded our pockets. But I want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: What has this experience been like in your own time?
Speaker 1: What do you think about the rise of non gender
Speaker 1: binary clothing being available. Do you have any feels when
Speaker 1: you put on the pants of your loved ones and
Speaker 1: it fits or doesn't fit, or what does that experience
Speaker 1: like for you? Do you wish you had more pockets
Speaker 1: all the time. Have pockets revolutionized your life? Tell us
Speaker 1: you can reach us on Instagram and tag us in
Speaker 1: all those pocket pictures at stuff mom Never Told You.
Speaker 1: Tweet at us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and
Speaker 1: send us a good old beast and email at mom
Speaker 1: stuff at how stuff works dot com.