Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're
Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you, and today I
Speaker 1: have to give a trigger warning. Not super thrilled to
Speaker 1: be coming back to this topic again so soon, but
Speaker 1: here we are. Men continue to be terrible in the
Speaker 1: Hollywood media landscape. So we're back at it again, me too,
Speaker 1: Part two, the Louis t K Edition. Now. Several of
Speaker 1: y'all tweeted at us after Louis c. K released his
Speaker 1: apology for apology in air quotes, Oh, I'm actually gonna
Speaker 1: just call it a statement. He makes more sense. There
Speaker 1: was no apology his statement regarding allegations that he had
Speaker 1: been non consensually masturbating in front of women in writer's
Speaker 1: rooms and in the comedy world for a very long time.
Speaker 1: Those allegations, as we all I know, turned not to
Speaker 1: be very true. Several of you wrote in asking what
Speaker 1: we thought about this situation, his statement and whether or
Speaker 1: not it was authentic and genuine. So today we're really
Speaker 1: going to unpack what led up to this moment, how
Speaker 1: rumors and the comedy and Hollywood and media landscape really
Speaker 1: kind of we're all accurate in this case, and what
Speaker 1: it means for Hollywood and women going forward now the
Speaker 1: last time, at the end of our me Too episode,
Speaker 1: which we by the way, we're not intending to make
Speaker 1: a series, but it's starting to feel like it might
Speaker 1: become one. We had really wrapped that conversation up by
Speaker 1: talking about this so called witch hunt. First of all,
Speaker 1: I'm still excited and motivated by this so called witch
Speaker 1: hunt hunt. I think this is like the witch Hunt
Speaker 1: rolling out. However, there was some concern around due process
Speaker 1: and like it's just going to become, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the rumor mill run amuck, and I think we are
Speaker 1: starting to see real accusations being put forth and actually
Speaker 1: resulting in serious ramifications for every sexual predator. Accept our
Speaker 1: president apparently Trump alert. But one of you brilliant listeners
Speaker 1: actually tweeted at us this really interesting component of the
Speaker 1: witch hunt which is now gleefully underway, that I thought
Speaker 1: was so on point. So thanks to Coyote Meal, who
Speaker 1: tweeted at us. Women call men out on their bad behavior.
Speaker 1: Men wine and cry quote it's a witch hunt, No, boys,
Speaker 1: witch hunts were when powerful men imprisoned and killed independent women.
Speaker 1: That's not your term to borrow. Hashtag take back witch
Speaker 1: hunt hashtag history and then she tweated at mom Stone
Speaker 1: podcast and full frontal sam b and I just thought
Speaker 1: that is such a good point. This idea that this
Speaker 1: is a witch hunt that they can wine and freak
Speaker 1: out and complain about is ironic considering women were persecuted
Speaker 1: for nothing other than I don't know, intelligence or independent independence,
Speaker 1: maybe having pockets when that wasn't when that was caused
Speaker 1: for suspicion, and this is the witch hunt edition, Like,
Speaker 1: this is actually holding people accountable. Unfortunately, this is leading
Speaker 1: to serious ramifications for folks like Louis c K. It
Speaker 1: really is. And even when we first recorded our last
Speaker 1: episode on Me Too, which wasn't even that long ago,
Speaker 1: a handful more, you know, powerful people in Hollywood have
Speaker 1: gone down because of allegations similar to those that Louis
Speaker 1: c K found himself with. In no way is this
Speaker 1: a complete list. There are so many more. If we
Speaker 1: were to list them all, we'd be here all day
Speaker 1: because that's how gross this is. Uh. So far, we
Speaker 1: have Brett Radner, very powerful Hollywood director who was accused
Speaker 1: by a handful of actresses for sexual misconduct and allegations.
Speaker 1: We mentioned Kevin Spacey's allegations in an earlier version of
Speaker 1: our Me Too podcast. Well, now Netflix has canceled House
Speaker 1: of Cards, and really we've seen a lot of swift
Speaker 1: movement for getting justice for his victims, which is interesting
Speaker 1: to me because part of me wonders if it's because
Speaker 1: he's a man and his victims were male that it
Speaker 1: was so swift. Even with Harvey Weinstein, it seemed like
Speaker 1: there was a couple of days where it was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen? Is he going to get the boot?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah women exactly Kevin Spacey. It seems very
Speaker 1: very back. Another instance that I found really telling and
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating is this case with Biju Phillips. Basically,
Speaker 1: when Biju Phillips was in this movie Bully back in
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's, one of her co stars, Daniel Frenzies,
Speaker 1: you might know as Damien from the movie Mean Girls,
Speaker 1: which of course is a classic, he came out with
Speaker 1: allegations that when they were filming the movie Bully way
Speaker 1: back when Biju Phillips is pretty terrible to him. Now
Speaker 1: he's a gay man, she's a woman, But that is
Speaker 1: supposed to show you that sexual harassment in the workplace
Speaker 1: isn't just man to woman. It can be anyone to anyone,
Speaker 1: because it's really about power. So he alleges that she
Speaker 1: made fun of his body when he had to take
Speaker 1: his clothes off for different scenes, that she would often
Speaker 1: make fun of him for being gay in front of
Speaker 1: the other co stars. I mean she was harassing. That's
Speaker 1: harassing to harass. It really goes to show that these
Speaker 1: cases can often be about power and making the other
Speaker 1: person feel powerless and exploiting these power dynamics. And so again,
Speaker 1: this isn't something that just happens men to women, although
Speaker 1: that tends to be the conversation that we're having in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: It can happen to me or men to men. It
Speaker 1: can happen to anyone, right. Michael Risky's from NPR is
Speaker 1: the latest whose name is in the headlines. NPR has
Speaker 1: been doing its own reporting on it and an investigation
Speaker 1: into the allegations coming from a lot of female producers
Speaker 1: at NPR. Matthew Weener, the creator of mad Men, is
Speaker 1: making headlines for allegations of sexual assaults. Yeah. What I
Speaker 1: found so heartbreaking about the allegations of surrounding Matthew Weener
Speaker 1: is that this happened to a writer on the show
Speaker 1: Cater Gordon, and basically she her career was on an upswing. Right.
Speaker 1: She won an Emmy for her work on mad Men.
Speaker 1: She went from being an assistant to a writer, and
Speaker 1: these allegations really had a big impact on her career.
Speaker 1: She says, I had the Emmy, but instead of being
Speaker 1: able to use that as a launchpad the rest of
Speaker 1: my career, it became an anchor because I felt I
Speaker 1: had to answer to the speculative stories in the press.
Speaker 1: I eventually walked away instead of fighting back. So she's
Speaker 1: someone whose career really never bounced back, and that her
Speaker 1: career success actually became a burden because of her association
Speaker 1: with this guy who she harassed her God, and then
Speaker 1: we would be remiss to not mention Roy Moore, the
Speaker 1: Alabama Senate nominee who is being asked now to step
Speaker 1: aside by an unusual suspect, Mitch McConnell, who says, by
Speaker 1: the way, I believe the women. I thought that was
Speaker 1: an interesting Mitch McConnell quote after allegations of child molestation,
Speaker 1: in response to allegations that he was basically hitting on
Speaker 1: and assaulting fourteen year old girl. Yeah, watching our elected
Speaker 1: leaders and lawmakers say things like, well, it wasn't non
Speaker 1: consensual because she was into it, or it was actually romantic.
Speaker 1: He didn't have sex with her, it was very romantic.
Speaker 1: He would play guitar and be really sweet to her,
Speaker 1: as if that's not disgusting. And also, yeah, and he
Speaker 1: was victim blaming in his statements about it, saying, you
Speaker 1: think it's a coincidence she waited all this time to
Speaker 1: make these allegations right before my election, right before this
Speaker 1: critical point in my career, And I'm thinking, dude, this
Speaker 1: is the time, this is the time to take people down.
Speaker 1: Like she's got the whole zeitgeist behind her. Of course
Speaker 1: she's going to do this right now. I don't blame
Speaker 1: her for exactly staying silent or not publicly getting the
Speaker 1: attention that she deserves to call you out on this
Speaker 1: b s exactly. So it definitely seems like we're in
Speaker 1: a cultural moment where people who have been silent for
Speaker 1: a long time feel like they are empowered to be
Speaker 1: silent no more. And that's the thing I'm really happy
Speaker 1: to see. I'm happy that people all along the spectrum
Speaker 1: are calling out inappropriate workplace and sexual harassment because it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's high time, and it's it seems like
Speaker 1: do process is still due process, but now people are
Speaker 1: maybe more likely to believe victims for the first time ever.
Speaker 1: You know, mean, this is a great time to make
Speaker 1: your voice heard if you are a victim, because the
Speaker 1: likelihood of being believed. I don't think he's ever been higher, totally.
Speaker 1: So taking it back to Louis c. K for a minute,
Speaker 1: if you listen to our earlier episode about the me
Speaker 1: to campaign, one of the things that came up a
Speaker 1: lot is this idea of gossip and rumors and how
Speaker 1: even though I think that we're conditioned to just dismiss
Speaker 1: gossip and dismiss rumors and say, oh do you have
Speaker 1: any proof? Oh, you know, is there any hard evidence,
Speaker 1: a lot of times when it comes to things like
Speaker 1: harassment and sexual assault, gossip and rumors can kind of
Speaker 1: function as a way to warn others and to spread
Speaker 1: the truth about what's actually happening. And so these Louis c.
Speaker 1: K rumors have been around on the Internet and in
Speaker 1: comedy scenes for a very long time. Right, if you're
Speaker 1: all read into the comments section of certain feminist blogs,
Speaker 1: or what's going on in comedy scenes. You've no doubt
Speaker 1: heard these rumors, and the longest time, people would often say,
Speaker 1: this is just rumors, this is just one person, this
Speaker 1: is just one story, you know, dismissing them, and actually
Speaker 1: it turned out to be very true. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting if you look all the way
Speaker 1: back towelve, Gawker made this really interesting editorial choice to
Speaker 1: run a piece titled which beloved comedian likes to force
Speaker 1: female comics to watch him jerk off, which was positive
Speaker 1: as a question and really describe what was happening with
Speaker 1: Louis c K. But they made the choice to not
Speaker 1: name the suspect. I remember reading that article when it
Speaker 1: was published back in twelve, and as soon as I
Speaker 1: read it, I was like, I think it's Louis King
Speaker 1: because he talks about masturbation, he does a lot, and
Speaker 1: he just seemed I don't know, I didn't have any proof,
Speaker 1: I didn't have any evidence. I just had a feeling.
Speaker 1: I just had a feeling it was him. It's like
Speaker 1: the rumor mill was fully functional. And later in April,
Speaker 1: comedian Jen Kirkman talks about a quote known perv on
Speaker 1: her podcast, without naming any names. Once again, she said,
Speaker 1: and I quote, I had another guy who's a very
Speaker 1: famous comic. He's probably at Cosby level at this point.
Speaker 1: He is lauded as a genius. He's basically a French
Speaker 1: filmmaker at this point. You know, new material every year.
Speaker 1: He's a known perv, and there's a lockdown on talking
Speaker 1: about him. His guy friends are standing by him, and
Speaker 1: you can't say a bad thing about him. And I've
Speaker 1: been told by people, well say it, then say it
Speaker 1: if it's true. If I say it, my career is over.
Speaker 1: My manager and my agent have told me that they
Speaker 1: didn't threaten it. They just said it to me. They
Speaker 1: just said to me, you know what, Jen, it's not
Speaker 1: worth it, because then you'll be torn apart. Look at
Speaker 1: the Cosby women. Something I find so telling about her
Speaker 1: statement is that she doesn't think it was a threat.
Speaker 1: It was just a fact. If you talk about this, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, that's what's so scary about people at
Speaker 1: the peak of their career success like Louis cy Kay.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was kicking it and so to be
Speaker 1: the wet blanket right, to be the the nay Sayer
Speaker 1: about the beloved comedian, and it just comes with so
Speaker 1: much personal risk, no one wanted to do it alone.
Speaker 1: And furthermore, his manager, Dave Becky, was arguably even more
Speaker 1: powerful than Louis himself was He managed some of the
Speaker 1: biggest names in comedy. We're talking Amy Poehler as E's
Speaker 1: snari people that you think of as you know, progressive,
Speaker 1: funny people. And if you're a comedian who's up and coming,
Speaker 1: you might really be afraid to cross someone that powerful,
Speaker 1: who has a direct line with so many powerful comedians.
Speaker 1: And once again, the entertainment industry is such a casual,
Speaker 1: relationship driven industry, you know, Like I'd say all industries
Speaker 1: are pretty relationship driven. But there's no HR department in
Speaker 1: the comedian stand up circuit, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: There's no hierarchy, there's no real authority. There's just power
Speaker 1: as derived from popularity and influence, and so there's no
Speaker 1: it's like such a wild wild West. Yeah. In our
Speaker 1: last met Too episode, we talked about how because Hollywood
Speaker 1: really functions on you know, sexual desire and looks as
Speaker 1: a currency, and how it really allows abusers to fester.
Speaker 1: I think comedy kind of presents another interesting way of
Speaker 1: framing that where it is relationships, it is personal connection,
Speaker 1: it is having fond feelings about someone, are thinking, Oh,
Speaker 1: this guy is really funny. This guy's a truth teller
Speaker 1: that I think allows people who are doing bad things
Speaker 1: to really get away with it unchecked. Yeah, exactly, So
Speaker 1: what was he getting away with? So basically, he admitted
Speaker 1: to masturbating in front of at least five women who
Speaker 1: were also either writers or comedians or involved in the
Speaker 1: comedy scene. Um. Sometimes he would barricade them and kind
Speaker 1: of not let them, not let them leave a room
Speaker 1: until he was finished. Um. One woman says that they
Speaker 1: talked on the phone and then she realized through what
Speaker 1: he was saying and how he was breathing, that he
Speaker 1: was masturbating. Um. Yeah, it just really sounds I don't
Speaker 1: even have the words for it. It's just such a
Speaker 1: I would be so shocked. I mean. In one of
Speaker 1: the anecdotes, the two women that he masturbatesed in fun
Speaker 1: of they described not even having the time to take
Speaker 1: off their winter coat, right exactly. This is the part
Speaker 1: of the story I found so interesting and I'm glad
Speaker 1: the New York Times decided to lead the story with this. Basically,
Speaker 1: these two comedians, Daneman Goodman and Julia Woloff had landed
Speaker 1: their big break, a chance to open the Comedy Arts
Speaker 1: Festival in Aspen, Colorado, where Louis Kay was also performing. So,
Speaker 1: of course, when he invited them to hang out in
Speaker 1: his hotel room for a nightcap afterwards, they took him
Speaker 1: up on the offer, thinking like, of course, this is
Speaker 1: a good opportunity to network, which is true and should
Speaker 1: be a thing that women can do. And they said
Speaker 1: as soon as they sat down in his room, still
Speaker 1: wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis c k
Speaker 1: asked if he could take out his penis. I'm sure
Speaker 1: he didn't say it like that though, like do you
Speaker 1: mind if I whip out my Like that's the kind
Speaker 1: of opening line that Louis went with. And they said,
Speaker 1: I thought it was a joke and laughed it off,
Speaker 1: which is a normal reaction to something like that, that
Speaker 1: Louise Ka is a dirty comedian, like he would joke
Speaker 1: about something like that. He jokes about masturbation on the
Speaker 1: show frequently. So then he did it and they were like,
Speaker 1: he proceeded to take all of his clothes off, get
Speaker 1: completely naked and start masturbating and they're like still wrapped
Speaker 1: up in their jackets paralyzed. They were like, I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to do. And I don't blame them, because
Speaker 1: what the hell kind of a move was that? I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't even fathom a grown man thinking that that
Speaker 1: isn't all a consensual encounter when the people that you're
Speaker 1: doing that they just got there. I mean, what is that? Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's so clearly not a sexual it's not sexually
Speaker 1: initiating something. It's clearly an assault, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like a power move your I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: so disrespectful at its core. It's not about a sexually
Speaker 1: mutual exchange change of anything. It's like, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do over you, Like I don't really care
Speaker 1: about your thoughts or feelings about it. This is what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. Honestly, I would love for the like
Speaker 1: sex therapists out there to weigh in on the psychology
Speaker 1: of why men would, why men do that? And men
Speaker 1: do men do and Laura knows I don't understand. Then
Speaker 1: if you if you know anything about my romantic life,
Speaker 1: laurd knows. I don't know crap of that men, but
Speaker 1: this is something that I just can't wrap my head around. Well,
Speaker 1: there's also this narrative I've heard that's like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: sexually damaged, Like, oh, he's got problems. That's the thing
Speaker 1: that jumped at at me in a lot of the encounters,
Speaker 1: and described that in the New York Times when the
Speaker 1: women said after he asked, can I take out my
Speaker 1: penis and started masturbating, that she said no, and that
Speaker 1: his response was, oh, I have problems. And so it
Speaker 1: does seem like whether or not that's an actual thing,
Speaker 1: it does seem like c K fell back on this
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh I have problems, I have sexual
Speaker 1: hangups whatever, as an explanation for behavior that really just
Speaker 1: can't be excused. I imagine if you walked into your
Speaker 1: boss's room or your colleague's office and that happened. See
Speaker 1: I think because it's the entertainment industry, because it was
Speaker 1: a late night in a hotel room, the barriers seem
Speaker 1: a little wishier and washier, a little more fluid. But
Speaker 1: compare this to your office, like, compare this to your
Speaker 1: professional domain. The women who were in that hotel room,
Speaker 1: had just finished working with a professional colleague. Just because
Speaker 1: it was in a hotel room does not lower the
Speaker 1: bar of like decency. And a lot of people on
Speaker 1: Twitter started saying, like, Wow, that's weird and messed up
Speaker 1: and gross. But is it assault? Is this against the law?
Speaker 1: You can't whip at you? I mean, there was real
Speaker 1: tension around people getting on board immediately with that being
Speaker 1: an assault. Definitely, I definitely saw that, and I thought
Speaker 1: to myself, the only spectrum we have these days to
Speaker 1: talk about sexual misconduct is is it a legal sexual
Speaker 1: assault or no? Then our whole conversation is kind of well,
Speaker 1: it's it just goes back to consent. We've got to
Speaker 1: train all people of all genders what it looks like
Speaker 1: to have consensual sex, because that is not a consensual exchange,
Speaker 1: and that is at its core and aggressive one way move.
Speaker 1: It's like, I really don't care if you say yes
Speaker 1: or no, this is going to happen. I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 1: This is me wielding power over you and fundamentally disrespecting you. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I think he really saw that in c k
Speaker 1: statement about what happened. So one thing I will say
Speaker 1: about this statement is that he did flat out say
Speaker 1: these allegations are true. I did these things. And so
Speaker 1: having that for me, having that be sort of the
Speaker 1: opening line, I thought, well, at least he's not going
Speaker 1: through this whole rigamarole of their lying. At least he's
Speaker 1: saying this happened, which is commendable. We can we can
Speaker 1: say this is disgusting and terrible. And also he owned
Speaker 1: up to it, and that's commendable because I think in
Speaker 1: the state age, the what we expect from powerful men
Speaker 1: who were accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment or
Speaker 1: sexual conduct is right. It's like a script right away,
Speaker 1: these allegations are false. I have a daughter, I have
Speaker 1: a wife, like there's a playbook that usually happens there.
Speaker 1: So low, though, That's what I realized. We were chatting
Speaker 1: a lot when this stuff was breaking, and I was
Speaker 1: talking with a lot of people in my life about it,
Speaker 1: and I frankly realized that I was too easily impressed.
Speaker 1: Is the bar so low for me? That just owning
Speaker 1: up to it, even though he does not apologize and
Speaker 1: says something pathetic like I never showed a woman my
Speaker 1: without asking first, And I thought that's why it was okay.
Speaker 1: Like I was playcated for all of five seconds before
Speaker 1: I started talking about it with everyone around me. And
Speaker 1: I read the New York Times piece out loud when
Speaker 1: I was reading it and Brad was around, and I
Speaker 1: read the statement and he just said, I'm not impressed.
Speaker 1: And I realized, like, damn, I've been coming up in
Speaker 1: a world where this kind of a statement was like
Speaker 1: playcated me, and I felt sort of horrified by myself
Speaker 1: in that moment. Well, if you checked out social media,
Speaker 1: you're far from alone. I saw many people on Twitter
Speaker 1: applauding his statement, saying this is a good model for
Speaker 1: how men can own when they do something wrong and
Speaker 1: how they can publicly own it. But here, and here's
Speaker 1: the thing. Luba c K's whole stick is sort of
Speaker 1: calculated vulnerability and sort of making you feel like he's
Speaker 1: being honest and authentic. That's why his show was so good,
Speaker 1: that's what resonates with his stand up. And so he
Speaker 1: is shameful. He's shameful, ashamed of himself correct, which reminded
Speaker 1: me of all the people I've ever dated in my
Speaker 1: life except for Brad the boo. So I think I
Speaker 1: was like, I got the psychological victimhood that he was playing.
Speaker 1: But do you think it was authentic? I th think
Speaker 1: he was authentically ashamed. Yeah, I do, so here's why
Speaker 1: I disagree. I definitely think this is like your mileage
Speaker 1: made very thing. And I saw people that I immensely
Speaker 1: respect saying this is like he does seem like he's
Speaker 1: owning this and that he understands. But just two months ago,
Speaker 1: he was on TV promoting his gross movie, which We're
Speaker 1: gonna get you in a second, saying these are rumors.
Speaker 1: I've done nothing wrong. I'm not an answer for this.
Speaker 1: And so even while that statement reads to me as
Speaker 1: someone who is ashamed and feels bad and gets it,
Speaker 1: gets why they've done something wrong, I don't feel like
Speaker 1: you can go from I don't I don't have to
Speaker 1: apologize for anything. I don't do anything wrong. In fact,
Speaker 1: you're the one who's wrong for spreading rumors me. I
Speaker 1: don't think he could go from there too, genuinely apologetic
Speaker 1: and getting it in a series of months. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I guess that's actually what Brad pointed out to me,
Speaker 1: which was I bet so many men out there have
Speaker 1: these statements ready to go, but they're not going to
Speaker 1: own it until they absolutely have to. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: And so I want to see the guy who says,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm volunteering. I did something wrong and
Speaker 1: they're probably all coming for me anyway, So let's just
Speaker 1: get this out of the way now. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to see that guy. Yeah. I don't feel like Louis
Speaker 1: c K can. He has made a big show. He
Speaker 1: went on Mark Marin the podcast and essentially lied. He
Speaker 1: lied and said this never happened. It's a rumor. It
Speaker 1: was a rumor about one night, and Mark Marin was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he lied to me on my own show. He came
Speaker 1: into my garage but on my headphones, talking into my
Speaker 1: microphone and lied. And so I just feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a no from me, it's a no from it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very compelling. I'm convinced. And it actually really jarred
Speaker 1: me in the same way that problematic fave Taylor Swift addition,
Speaker 1: jarred me into realizing, oh, I forgive a lot of
Speaker 1: racism from people that I adore, and that's pretty messed
Speaker 1: up when it comes to Taylor Swift and when it
Speaker 1: comes to Louis c K. Because I loved his comedy.
Speaker 1: I was so easily placated by his book. But that's
Speaker 1: the thing, that's how he gets you, like the comedy
Speaker 1: sucks you in that way. And I think it's a
Speaker 1: it's a nature of comedy because the stand up comedy
Speaker 1: is about making people feel like you're telling the truth,
Speaker 1: that you're that you're winning them over to how you
Speaker 1: see the world. And Louis is great at that. That's
Speaker 1: why it's comedy is so good. And so when I
Speaker 1: saw that statement initially, I was like that was a
Speaker 1: good statement. I had to take a step back and say,
Speaker 1: wait a minute. He doesn't even say he's sorry. And
Speaker 1: as Christina Catarucci points out over at Slate in his
Speaker 1: own statement about his misconduct, he really messes up the
Speaker 1: concept of consent in a way that I think folks
Speaker 1: aren't really talking about enough. She says. Even so, Nestled
Speaker 1: in the SKS admission effect quote these stories are true,
Speaker 1: are several deliberate lies. C ks phrasing is cunning and specific.
Speaker 1: Perhaps he did ask each woman if he could take
Speaker 1: out his penis before he showed it to them, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't say it they said yes, because many didn't.
Speaker 1: Here c K is squeezing his history of harassment into
Speaker 1: the narrative of misunderstood consent. He's claiming that, as an
Speaker 1: adult man, he believed that repeatedly asking a woman in
Speaker 1: his workplace to watch him master it in his office
Speaker 1: was appropriate. The Times article says he proposed his favorite
Speaker 1: sex act to the pair of women he didn't know
Speaker 1: but who admired him as soon as they sat down
Speaker 1: in her room wrapped in their winter jackets and hats.
Speaker 1: When they quote lacked it off, he did it anyway,
Speaker 1: c K. It would have his fans believe that he
Speaker 1: honestly thought this would be erotically pleasing for the two
Speaker 1: bundled up women that he truly believed that he had
Speaker 1: their concerts exactly because it has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: their interests or desires. He's totally disrespectful and ignorant of
Speaker 1: and not interested in understanding what they want and desire
Speaker 1: in that moment, because it sure's how it wasn't going
Speaker 1: to be to watch him masturbate. Yes, duh, absolutely accurate.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into a little bit more about why
Speaker 1: c K's allegations seemed a little bit different from the others.
Speaker 1: After this quick break and we're back, and we were
Speaker 1: just talking about Luis c K and really why it
Speaker 1: was so tempting to maybe give him a pass to say, oh,
Speaker 1: is his statement was good, And I really do think
Speaker 1: it's because of how he functions in the comedy world.
Speaker 1: First of all, as The New York Times points out,
Speaker 1: the man is a comedy legend. He's so successful. He
Speaker 1: sold out Madison Square Garden, his show is huge. He's
Speaker 1: really should have known as kind of a eastmaker and
Speaker 1: the comedy in Hollywood. So I wonder if that played
Speaker 1: into why these allegations went unaddressed for so long. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what's ironic and now very horrifying, is that
Speaker 1: Louis c K built a reputation as the unlikely conscience
Speaker 1: of a comedy scene. As written in The New York Times,
Speaker 1: they go on to say, he made audiences laugh about hypocrisy,
Speaker 1: especially male hypocrisy. And I think that's exactly why men
Speaker 1: like c K can be so insidious, because they make
Speaker 1: you believe that they're these woke progressive feminists. They get it,
Speaker 1: they get what the women are going through, they get
Speaker 1: their own role in it. But just saying the right
Speaker 1: stuff about gender doesn't actually make you a feminist exactly.
Speaker 1: His work really underscored and played up the grossness of men,
Speaker 1: which made him kind of endearing. For instance, take his
Speaker 1: classic joke about how dating men is dangerous. He says,
Speaker 1: how do women still go out with guys when you
Speaker 1: consider that there is no greater threat to women than
Speaker 1: men were the number one threat to women globally and
Speaker 1: historically we are the number one cause of injury and
Speaker 1: mayhem to women, which, by the way, I never thought
Speaker 1: was that funny because it's so freaking true, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was like a scary, real joke. But
Speaker 1: he got people laughing because he's the oh, like, we're
Speaker 1: so bad, like terrible men, like oh self deprecation on
Speaker 1: steroids totally. And I have just a hard time seeing
Speaker 1: through this when it's happening, and like the guy is
Speaker 1: in my good graces. But after that that, it's so
Speaker 1: easy to call this out for what it is exactly.
Speaker 1: And you know who did that beautifully is Francesca Ramsey,
Speaker 1: who really articulated this in the perfect way on stage
Speaker 1: just earlier this week. I think what really is the
Speaker 1: worst is like looking back on his material and realizing
Speaker 1: that he was doing all of this stuff to get
Speaker 1: like head pats for being like a woke white guy
Speaker 1: who like understands it's hard to be a woman like you, dude.
Speaker 1: He was telling jokes about himself. He was going up
Speaker 1: and telling jokes about how hard it was to be
Speaker 1: a woman because guys are cools, and he was talking
Speaker 1: about himself, and he was getting millions of dollars for it.
Speaker 1: And it's just, honestly, I could not have put it
Speaker 1: better myself. Um, I think it's I think she's absolutely
Speaker 1: spot on, right. We all kind of bought into this
Speaker 1: idea of Louis c k as this feminist truth teller.
Speaker 1: There's actually a Salon article about all about how he's
Speaker 1: a male feminist comedian and it's this new thing, and
Speaker 1: I just think we bought it, and he was making
Speaker 1: millions doing it. Underscores to me just how enraged we
Speaker 1: all should be about it. Absolutely, And I think the
Speaker 1: fact that we gave him money for telling jokes about
Speaker 1: his own gross disturbing behavior really say something about us.
Speaker 1: Over at g Q, they write c K two had
Speaker 1: a rep for being painfully honest, particularly in regard to
Speaker 1: his own shortcomings as a husband, father, and man. In general.
Speaker 1: Looking back, it feels like c k's entire ubra was
Speaker 1: less a deployment of harsh truths than a deft way
Speaker 1: of laundering them, masking his truly unforgivable behavior. He was
Speaker 1: strategically vulnerable, always in control of his own narrative. He
Speaker 1: almost certainly got more Catharsis out of his act than
Speaker 1: his audience did. C K also had a habit of
Speaker 1: presuming his own personal flaws, his inner racism, his sexual hangouts, etcetera,
Speaker 1: were universal aspects of the human condition. I know that
Speaker 1: playbook well, and it's often used by a white dude
Speaker 1: who thinks everyone else also thinks like a white dude,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure many white dudes do, but like it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's not exactly inclusive comedy like that. That's why that
Speaker 1: joke about men being the number one deadliest threat to
Speaker 1: women was not funny to me. Right, But again, I
Speaker 1: think a certain kind of man see c K and says,
Speaker 1: if I think like him, I'm a good guy. I'm
Speaker 1: a progressive. I can be gross, I can do all
Speaker 1: these gross things. I mean. He had an episode of
Speaker 1: his show Louis where he basically tries to rape Pamuela
Speaker 1: Alden's character, and it's sort of framed as, Oh, he's
Speaker 1: just this bumbling guy who doesn't know how to how
Speaker 1: to be with women, and looking back, it's like, why
Speaker 1: did we entertain that? Why did we allow that to
Speaker 1: be wrapped up and kind of a you know, a
Speaker 1: fluffy bow. Another episode that I actually had forgotten about
Speaker 1: until just now is Louis. You know, he's this sort
Speaker 1: of chronically single, can't get a date, hapless guy who
Speaker 1: doesn't understand women, and it's supposed to be lovable on
Speaker 1: the show. He goes to a supermarket and there's a
Speaker 1: black woman behind the checkout counter and he buys like
Speaker 1: a dozen roses and he says, these are for you,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't accept these roses. I don't
Speaker 1: want them. And he's like, no, I'm I bought them
Speaker 1: for you. I bought them for you. She's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. He then waits until she gets off
Speaker 1: of her job. He follows her back to her apartment
Speaker 1: and this is New York, so she lives in like
Speaker 1: hard limits and it's involves, you know. He gets on
Speaker 1: the subway with her and he goes back to her apartment,
Speaker 1: and it's like trying to woo her after she's made
Speaker 1: it very very clear that she's not interested, and the
Speaker 1: episode is played for sort of. He's this romantic guy
Speaker 1: who's trying his best to woo this girl who could
Speaker 1: not have made it any more clear that she's not
Speaker 1: into it. And what's worse is that the girl actually
Speaker 1: gives this very pointed kind of monologue about what's happening
Speaker 1: and why it's messed up. She says, you think this
Speaker 1: is gonna be something where you come to the hood
Speaker 1: and like come to Harlem and like make my day
Speaker 1: and like buy me flowers, and it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: so nice. I'm not into it. It's not romantic, it's
Speaker 1: not cool, and you're thinking, oh, maybe he gets it.
Speaker 1: But then here's the kicker. It's played for laughs because
Speaker 1: as he's leaving her apartment, he sees another black woman
Speaker 1: and they have like what is supposed to be humorous sex.
Speaker 1: So basically essentially stalks a woman all the way through
Speaker 1: her work day on the subway back to her home.
Speaker 1: After she's like you need to leave her, I'm basically
Speaker 1: calling the coups. He sleeps with another woman and it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be funny and charming, and I wonder where
Speaker 1: we all just caught up in that and exactly what
Speaker 1: Francesca was saying, this sort of bumbling white guy progressivism
Speaker 1: that we kind of got dupe in at think k
Speaker 1: that was cool. I think he is playing up the
Speaker 1: very real problem that our society has on understanding consent.
Speaker 1: I think the confusion around consent is honest. Clearly he
Speaker 1: doesn't understand that when your doubt in the workplace, even
Speaker 1: if it is a hotel room after a comedy show,
Speaker 1: in front of two women who could not have looked
Speaker 1: or seemed less interested, is not okay. So I think
Speaker 1: this like hapless learning what consent means, Like clearly he
Speaker 1: needs to understand what eighteen year olds are hopefully getting
Speaker 1: through their heads a little more. Then it's like a
Speaker 1: generational thing. Not that that's a pass, but I think
Speaker 1: his comedy resonated because there is real confusion in this
Speaker 1: country about what consent actually means. And once you add
Speaker 1: power in a sense of entitlement to it, which white
Speaker 1: men in our country seem to have an oversized amount
Speaker 1: of right now and historically, then that's a that's a
Speaker 1: pretty dangerous comment nation, a lack of respect around consent,
Speaker 1: an outsized estimation of your own awesomeness right about your
Speaker 1: own sex appeal perhaps or your entitlement and your power,
Speaker 1: and an actual outsized amount of power in this country.
Speaker 1: I would also go further and say an outsized estimation
Speaker 1: of your own feminism right, because I do think him
Speaker 1: being sort of appointed as quote feminist dude perhaps did
Speaker 1: give him a lot of leeway to make art that
Speaker 1: we weren't super critical about, in addition to getting away
Speaker 1: with things that were really inappropriate. That's why I love
Speaker 1: this piece that Sarah Dittman put out at a new Statement.
Speaker 1: She says it's typical of the low standards men benefit
Speaker 1: from that simply describing how men are bad for women
Speaker 1: could be enough to get c. K lauded as a
Speaker 1: hero of the women's movement, in the same way that
Speaker 1: a male primary school teacher who simply shows up for
Speaker 1: work long enough can find himself glass elevator to the
Speaker 1: head of leadership. Just dropping some about sex and power
Speaker 1: can be enough to have a man seen appointed to
Speaker 1: top feminist and if like seeking he seems to be
Speaker 1: admitting to personal foibles as he goes, then he can
Speaker 1: be praised all the more for his honesty. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: bar is so low. The bar is so low for
Speaker 1: male feminists is in the public eye and the entertainment industry,
Speaker 1: And isn't interesting how a lot of times these notable
Speaker 1: male feminists find themselves kind of dealing with this kind
Speaker 1: of thing. I'm thinking of folks like Jamie Kilsten, Josh Sweden,
Speaker 1: all of these men that sort of appoint themselves as
Speaker 1: these feminist heroes. Sometimes they end up being kind of gross,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of sleazy and using their feminist street cred
Speaker 1: to prey on women. Yeah. I can almost hear the
Speaker 1: guy listening though, saying like, what am I too much
Speaker 1: of a feminist now? It's like kind of how Matt
Speaker 1: McGorry got a lot of shade after he was like
Speaker 1: a little too from I almost wonder if it's one
Speaker 1: of those Malcolm Gladwell style sticking points where when you're
Speaker 1: you're like woke, and then you get to a point
Speaker 1: where it's like it's too woke, and then you're like
Speaker 1: something's about to turn it down. Yeah, something's about to
Speaker 1: It's like something that something has to give. It's the
Speaker 1: it's the idea of like um pass the mic exactly
Speaker 1: just as a personal thing. When a man vocally and
Speaker 1: loudly calls himself a feminist, I'm always a little skeptical.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I just feel as though if you actually
Speaker 1: are truly down with the cause, you're not just talking
Speaker 1: about it and tweeting about it. You're actually out there
Speaker 1: being a good guy. You're actually out there passing, passing
Speaker 1: the mic and elevating women's vas. You're actually out there
Speaker 1: checking your bros when they do something inappropriate to a
Speaker 1: woman when they can't call a woman. You're actually out
Speaker 1: there walking the walk, not just talking the talk. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know. I actually heard Wade Davis speak at Mobilizing
Speaker 1: the Power of Women, the elevat Networks conference in New
Speaker 1: York earlier this year, and when he got up as
Speaker 1: one of the handful of keynote speakers in the morning
Speaker 1: of the conference, the first thing he said was, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not here to get brownie points. I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things wrong with the men who get
Speaker 1: up at these conferences just get brownie points. So like
Speaker 1: is not about me, And I come to you humbly
Speaker 1: and like I'm here to learn and listen. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, damn, you don't get that kind of
Speaker 1: a message from a lot of speakers period, but especially
Speaker 1: as an expert in diversity and an inclusion which he
Speaker 1: is a former NFL player, an educator, and a diversitating
Speaker 1: inclusion consultant. You know, he was incredibly tactful and how
Speaker 1: he walked the walk, which it definitely your actions speak
Speaker 1: louder than your words when it comes to this kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Well, I think these kind of big public
Speaker 1: moments like that can really be models for how men
Speaker 1: can get it right and men can get it wrong.
Speaker 1: And I gotta say I was a little disappointed by
Speaker 1: one of our faves, John Stewart, looking back at footage
Speaker 1: of him being asked about these allegations, it's mortifying. Basically,
Speaker 1: he dismisses it as quote some internet thing, right, he
Speaker 1: doesn't even really take the rumor seriously and he's kind
Speaker 1: of just brushes them off. And that video today, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a few years old, but watching it in light
Speaker 1: of the recent allegations coming out to be true, it
Speaker 1: really doesn't play well. But conversely, I thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting that thirty year x Judy Friedlander really showed a
Speaker 1: different model for how Ckse comedy colleagues could really hold
Speaker 1: him accountable and support the women were coming forward. When
Speaker 1: Freedlander was asked about sexual assault in the comedy world,
Speaker 1: he said, there's a big rumor. I think you know
Speaker 1: who I'm talking about. I've only ever read things on Gawker.
Speaker 1: I got a loaded to it a year ago when
Speaker 1: it was online. I don't generally deal with him. He's
Speaker 1: been to me, so I know nothing about it. But
Speaker 1: if anyone in the comedy community has been abused by anyone,
Speaker 1: I support them a hundred percent. Whoever's doing it, no
Speaker 1: matter how big or small, I hope they do time
Speaker 1: for the crime. And you know, I bet that wasn't
Speaker 1: an easy thing to do. I bet that did have
Speaker 1: consequences for him. But there's a right way to be
Speaker 1: an ally when you're a man, and there's a wrong
Speaker 1: way to be an ally when you're a man. And
Speaker 1: I think moments like this really show us how folks
Speaker 1: can get it right or get it wrong. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it it involves taking risks to your own personal professional
Speaker 1: credibility or potential, you know, like calling out like the
Speaker 1: big fish in the scene does not come without consequences.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, Let's take a quick break and talk a
Speaker 1: bit more about what this means for c K's movies
Speaker 1: and for the media landscape going forward. And we're back.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about Louis c K and sort
Speaker 1: of how he was able to function as a creep
Speaker 1: in Hollywood for so long. And I would be ever
Speaker 1: missed to talk about Louis c K without mentioning that creepy,
Speaker 1: creepy movie I Love You Daddy. To me, there is
Speaker 1: no better evidence of how secure c K felt in
Speaker 1: his status and in his standing in Hollywood and in
Speaker 1: the New York comedy scene, and the fact that he
Speaker 1: felt it was appropriate and a good idea to write, direct,
Speaker 1: and self finance a movie called I Love You Daddy
Speaker 1: that deals heavily with a seventeen year old high school
Speaker 1: student possibly having sexual relations with a much older man,
Speaker 1: mind you, in the style of other potentially noted creep
Speaker 1: Woody Allen. Yeah basically is a film whose plotline plays
Speaker 1: homage to the Woody Allen era in which, like this creative, fumbling,
Speaker 1: bumbling older man finds inspiration in a muse who is
Speaker 1: like basically barely legal or in this case, not legal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen Manhattan, I Love You Daddy, Basically
Speaker 1: it's an homage to Manhattan, wherein I think it's Brookshields
Speaker 1: with fifteen is the love interest for very adult Woody Allen,
Speaker 1: and it's just seen as a thing. And I think
Speaker 1: the fact that Louis c k decided to pay homage
Speaker 1: to Woody Allen, in my mind, it just makes me think, like, wow,
Speaker 1: you really were Like this is like a this is
Speaker 1: not subtle, right, Actually I have a Madison had a
Speaker 1: great tweet about something else, but it reminded me so
Speaker 1: much of this. This is like a movie wherein the
Speaker 1: serial killer sends taunting letters to the police. It's like,
Speaker 1: we get it, dude, you're a creep, Like how many
Speaker 1: other ways could you try to tell us that you're
Speaker 1: a creep? It's so insane and you're right like the
Speaker 1: hootspah on this guy to think that he could get
Speaker 1: away with that while he's busy doing this kind of
Speaker 1: jerk off, you know, assault type strategy, Like why would
Speaker 1: you do that? Because you no longer fear consequences because
Speaker 1: you're very powerful and you're untouchable, or so he thought,
Speaker 1: and you're powerful friends will all fall in line to
Speaker 1: protect you, because you're a great comedian like that, Like,
Speaker 1: it's no question to me that he very clearly felt secure,
Speaker 1: secure enough to make what I feel Like it's such
Speaker 1: an obvious, horrible idea of a movie, particularly in this
Speaker 1: cultural climate, Like, even if these allegations about him never
Speaker 1: came to light, even if they never came to be true,
Speaker 1: maybe a movie about your seventeen year old daughter having
Speaker 1: sex with a grown man and your sort of moral
Speaker 1: ambiguity around that is weird regardless it to make a
Speaker 1: movie like that in this climate and think it will
Speaker 1: just be fine. Yeah, And while to be clear, we
Speaker 1: have not seen this film ourselves. Alexandra Schwartz and The
Speaker 1: New Yorker sums it up in really what she describes
Speaker 1: as the only generous way to read I Love You, Daddy,
Speaker 1: which she says is as a portrait of male cowardice.
Speaker 1: What kind of man would be so shamefully pathetic as
Speaker 1: to avoid confronting the famous geezer who may or may
Speaker 1: not be screwing his underage daughter because that geezer has
Speaker 1: offered to read his latest script, The same man presumably
Speaker 1: who winces but doesn't intervene, as his Dumbo comedian buddy
Speaker 1: Charlie Day describes at gleeful length all the ways that
Speaker 1: the man's daughter has probably been done spring Break, As
Speaker 1: is often the case with the roles that Louis writes
Speaker 1: for himself, if there is a strong note of masochistic
Speaker 1: pleasure in this extreme passivity. Louis famously obsessive and controlling
Speaker 1: of his work. He writes, he directs, the edits, he acts,
Speaker 1: he produces, he distributes, he does it all. Likes to
Speaker 1: play losers who are at the mercy of others. Often
Speaker 1: those others are women. It's hard not to wonder, in
Speaker 1: the wake of Thursday's revelations, to what extent Louis has
Speaker 1: used this persona to shield his reputation. But cowardice is
Speaker 1: not just an avoidance of a moral stance. It is
Speaker 1: a moral stance too, and not a flattering one. So basically,
Speaker 1: in the movie, he he's got this powerful older filmmaker
Speaker 1: who he really admires, who he doesn't necessarily want to
Speaker 1: confront about whether or not he's sleeping with his teenage daughter,
Speaker 1: And like we're supposed to empathize with that kind of ambiguity, right,
Speaker 1: and just like you were talking about before, how his
Speaker 1: comedy and his show kind of served to launder his
Speaker 1: own behavior and sort of put this sort of mask
Speaker 1: of what does it all mean? Let's ask quote tough
Speaker 1: questions about bad behavior of men and just asking questions
Speaker 1: right Like, I feel like the film really sort of
Speaker 1: puts a veneer of this is these are smart, alreadie
Speaker 1: people having smart already conversations about whether it's cool to
Speaker 1: have sex with the fourteen year old. It almost sounds
Speaker 1: like he's using his art or the this character that
Speaker 1: he seems to play over and over again as a
Speaker 1: way of denying his own responsibility in his own life. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not doing this, Maybe it's all just happening
Speaker 1: to me exactly, infinite victimhood that honestly, I dated people
Speaker 1: every every like dude I've dated. It is like I'm
Speaker 1: just the victim here, and a lot of the controlling
Speaker 1: and abuse of men that I've encountered in my life,
Speaker 1: whether I was in a relationship with them or not,
Speaker 1: are constantly feeling like victor, like hapless SAPs that just
Speaker 1: you know, I just want to love and be loved.
Speaker 1: I think Louis plays that up so much. And I
Speaker 1: think it's no coincidence that you see that in men
Speaker 1: who can come off a little controlling in Toxic. Is
Speaker 1: that constant shirking of responsibility by seeing you as a
Speaker 1: victim of your own life instead of having any agency
Speaker 1: or power or responsibility over your actions so common place.
Speaker 1: It's so common, And I think kind of back to
Speaker 1: the movie. Even though I think I've talked at length
Speaker 1: about how gross I think this movie is even beyond that,
Speaker 1: something that really troubles me is that we give men
Speaker 1: like Loui the space to tell these stories. I'm in
Speaker 1: general sick of the overcrowding of our media landscape with
Speaker 1: stories like this, stories about men grappling with you know,
Speaker 1: wanting to younger women and all of that. I just
Speaker 1: am done with that, right. Something that I often say
Speaker 1: that people give me a lot of heat for is
Speaker 1: I don't actually read books by men. I'm just sick
Speaker 1: of it. Something against men. I just I get it.
Speaker 1: I feel like we have heard these stories so often.
Speaker 1: What new thing could Louis c K tell us about,
Speaker 1: you know, the human experience? Right? And I just feel like,
Speaker 1: for so long we have given men this pass to
Speaker 1: make whatever kind of stories they make and people just
Speaker 1: take it seriously. Well, that's why Tigna Taro's One Mississippi
Speaker 1: is so refreshing. Which, by the way, did you hear
Speaker 1: her interview that chucked in on It's a it's a
Speaker 1: amazing I love Taro And again, she was one of
Speaker 1: the earliest people to really call c K out. And
Speaker 1: that's another thing that really pissed me off about the situation.
Speaker 1: How many women, how many women showrunners, women front runners,
Speaker 1: are gonna go down because of c ks Pamula Auden's
Speaker 1: better things. She is out there like doing her own
Speaker 1: show about complicated women made of a certain age, stories
Speaker 1: that you don't see. Is his situation going to like
Speaker 1: taint her project? Is situation going to taint? Take Nataro's
Speaker 1: project because he sort of like helped her get famous.
Speaker 1: Because when you look at allegations of wrongdoing by men,
Speaker 1: so often we expect the women in their orbit to
Speaker 1: answer for their wrong doings. Look at Hillary Clinton, look
Speaker 1: at Huma ab Deen, right, how often do we expect
Speaker 1: women who are in the orbit of powerful men, who
Speaker 1: who mess up, who mess up? How often do we
Speaker 1: look at them and say, like, where was she? What
Speaker 1: did she do it was a relationship stand by your
Speaker 1: man or not kind of song gets played over and
Speaker 1: over again, but hopefully because Louis E. K is not
Speaker 1: romantically attached to any of these women, that won't happen.
Speaker 1: But when I think about Pamula Alden, I only think
Speaker 1: about her in relation to c K, and I think
Speaker 1: that there was a creatively correct I was just reading
Speaker 1: earlier today about how in comedy for women, so often
Speaker 1: women aren't taken seriously as creators until they are attached
Speaker 1: to a powerful man. I love Ray's Insecure, but it
Speaker 1: was really Larry Wilmore kind of putting a stamp on
Speaker 1: that her where she is and got her that recognition
Speaker 1: and saying, Okay, we'll give her some legitimacy as a
Speaker 1: content creator. Yeah. And I feel like either way is
Speaker 1: such a good example, like to your Natara of like
Speaker 1: maybe we should give women comedians more money to make
Speaker 1: more creative stuff. There are so many more stories to
Speaker 1: be told than this Woody Allen bs rerun absolutely absolutely correct,
Speaker 1: and again I'm hoping that this moment will really be
Speaker 1: a sea change, not just around the fact that we're
Speaker 1: sick of powerful men getting away with sex crimes. But
Speaker 1: also we're sick of the stories of men dominating our
Speaker 1: media landscape. I hope this moment is a galvanizing one
Speaker 1: for women content creators and women comedians, women writers, women directors,
Speaker 1: and every aspect from agents and managers to people who
Speaker 1: are behind the camera. I want this to be a
Speaker 1: moment that says, listen, men have had their run in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: It's our turn. Clearly, you're messing everything up. Clearly you
Speaker 1: can't keep it in your pants. Clearly we're all sick
Speaker 1: of it. An you know what else, We're sick of
Speaker 1: your stories because they're whack and tired. Sit out and
Speaker 1: let us have a chance at the helm. Yes. Also
Speaker 1: did o that for politics? Yes, and all the things.
Speaker 1: Really like everything. I know, people chafe at that idea
Speaker 1: of like, you've had your turn, give us a shot.
Speaker 1: But that is valid. That is a valid and I
Speaker 1: think I couldn't have said it better myself. The good
Speaker 1: news is that you don't have to look very far
Speaker 1: for evidence that the market is hungry for more stories,
Speaker 1: not the Woody Allen rerun. Even this past weekend, women
Speaker 1: led films were crushing it at the box office. The
Speaker 1: New Francis McDorman movie called Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri,
Speaker 1: open to the third highest purse screen average for any
Speaker 1: movie this year, with a stellar three dollar take from
Speaker 1: just four screens. It played alongside the movie with the
Speaker 1: highest purse screen opening of that year, the Greta Gerwig
Speaker 1: written and directed and Sores Ronan starring Lady Bird, which
Speaker 1: earned per screen in its debut and widened in its
Speaker 1: second weekend to become a bona fide specialty cinema smash hit,
Speaker 1: which f y I. I saw Ladybird over the weekend,
Speaker 1: and honestly, it doesn't surprise me that a movie that
Speaker 1: treats young women as actual thinking beings who have desires
Speaker 1: and needs and all of that, as fully authentic people
Speaker 1: was a smash hit this past week and and it
Speaker 1: can really be seen in tandem with Luis c K's
Speaker 1: I Love You Daddy. We're in his seventeen year old daughter.
Speaker 1: It's just this object of desire right exactly exactly that.
Speaker 1: And so I don't think it's a coincidence at all
Speaker 1: that these authentic women fronted movies with these strong female
Speaker 1: protagonists have been doing dang busters in light of all
Speaker 1: these horrible allegations against powerful men in Hollywood. I also
Speaker 1: see this playing out on the small screen. By the way,
Speaker 1: how I am hungry for women led dramas. I think
Speaker 1: The Crown was doing incredibly well. We've already discussed how
Speaker 1: Reese Weatherspoon's production studio is changing the game with things
Speaker 1: like Big Little Lies. I think as a TV fiend
Speaker 1: who doesn't really actually get to the movies very often,
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I'm not really a movie person,
Speaker 1: but I am a TV series binge watcher extraordina um.
Speaker 1: I see this playing out in my Netflix account as well,
Speaker 1: and I want more of it. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: music too. I give my dad and a lot of
Speaker 1: the guy friends in my life a lot of credit
Speaker 1: for introducing me to some of the most iconic bands
Speaker 1: that I've ever loved, a lot of classic rock. And
Speaker 1: then I realized, in the past decade, you don't listen
Speaker 1: to any women lead bands, Like, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: Let me introduce you to some bands that you've been
Speaker 1: missing out on. As a musical artist, who you've been
Speaker 1: missing out on? Although to his credit, my dad did
Speaker 1: introduce me to Janelle Money. Oh what ye dadda dad?
Speaker 1: Aries my Jewish white father went to a Jenelle Money
Speaker 1: concert solo in Hartford, Connecticut, twenty minutes of our house,
Speaker 1: in the pouring rain, stayed to like meet her backstage.
Speaker 1: Pretty sure he was the only white Jewish suburban father
Speaker 1: in the whole place, by the way, and got her signed.
Speaker 1: I was sure. She was like, where's your adopted black daughter? Oh?
Speaker 1: He was so proud. I love it. I love it well,
Speaker 1: sminthy listeners, we want to hear from you. What was
Speaker 1: your take on Louis's statement about these allegations? Did it
Speaker 1: seem genuine to you? Why am I not? What's your
Speaker 1: take on why men masturbade in front of women who
Speaker 1: are non consenting? And did anybody else sort of catch
Speaker 1: themselves like me being too easily placated and then thankfully
Speaker 1: getting enraged all over again the more I read about this,
Speaker 1: and is that problematic? Like do you find yourself too
Speaker 1: easily placated by the celebrities you formerly admired? Um in
Speaker 1: a statement of quote unquote apology like this one, It's
Speaker 1: easy to do, totally understandable. So hit us up on
Speaker 1: social media. You can find us on Instagram at stuff
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You. On Twitter, at mom Stuff podcast
Speaker 1: and as always on email at mom stuff at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm