Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening the stuff Mom
Speaker 1: never told you, and today you were really excited to
Speaker 1: talk about the store you might have heard of called Walmart.
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of y'all out there have one in
Speaker 1: your town, drive by it, maybe you even shop there.
Speaker 1: Today we're gonna be getting into some of the not
Speaker 1: so warm and fuzzy aspects of how Walmart troots its
Speaker 1: employees and another company you might like a lot more
Speaker 1: than Walmart called Modcloth, and spoiler alert, they are now
Speaker 1: the same company. They are now owned and operated by
Speaker 1: the same company, which I have to say I actually
Speaker 1: didn't really know. For a while. I was a huge
Speaker 1: Modcloth fan, like a lot of women. I'm sure, um
Speaker 1: a lot of that goods in my apartment are from Modcloth. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't really love a lot of their clothing, but
Speaker 1: I loved their like quirky homewears. It felt like Portland
Speaker 1: if Portland was a clothing store, which great place. It
Speaker 1: was never my thing. So I bring some vice to
Speaker 1: the table on this one because I was never that
Speaker 1: into the vintage inspired but not actually vintage clothing lines.
Speaker 1: But I do respect the way that they made choices
Speaker 1: around their marketing, which we'll we'll dive into, but this
Speaker 1: latest choice was certainly a doozy. It was a doozy,
Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of their fans online,
Speaker 1: certainly a surprising one. So to take it back to
Speaker 1: Walmart for a minute, I know you might be thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: so Walmart is one store, it's one retailer. Why should
Speaker 1: anybody care what they do and what their labor practices
Speaker 1: look like. But here's why you should care. Walmart is
Speaker 1: actually the world's largest private employer. They employed two point
Speaker 1: three million employees worldwide. That's more than all of the U.
Speaker 1: S is active military personnel, which is pretty cute. It's
Speaker 1: like our milletary. It rivals our military. The Walmart workforce
Speaker 1: is its own army. Yeah, that's an accurate statement. Army, Navy,
Speaker 1: every every branch. That's crazy. Yeah, it's it's huge, it's massive.
Speaker 1: So really, we should all kind of be invested in
Speaker 1: how Walmart shoots its employees because the way that Walmart
Speaker 1: does things sets the tone for other retailers. If Walmart
Speaker 1: can get away with something in terms of labor practices,
Speaker 1: other smaller retailers feel like they probably can to the
Speaker 1: sheer volume and influence that Walmart brings to the table
Speaker 1: influences what folks expect in the working world, um, and
Speaker 1: what they can get away with. Just like you said,
Speaker 1: Bridget it's payroll and it's pay and it's practices for
Speaker 1: employee management and talent management. Really moves the needle in
Speaker 1: terms of what workers can expect in terms of rights
Speaker 1: in this country, definitely and across the world definitely, definitely,
Speaker 1: because Walmart does have global reach. So unless you've been
Speaker 1: living under a rock, you might already know that Walmart
Speaker 1: isn't really own for treating employees very fairly. Um, there's
Speaker 1: a whole If we did an entire podcast about all
Speaker 1: the allegations made against Walmart, this would be a seven
Speaker 1: hour podcast and you would probably unless you were driving
Speaker 1: across country, you would never listen to it. Um. To
Speaker 1: sum it up, Walmart has had a long history of
Speaker 1: treating employees and not so well. In twelve, Walmart was
Speaker 1: fine at the Department of Labor for denying workers over
Speaker 1: time pay have to pay back four point eight million
Speaker 1: in back wages. Honestly, like you said, if we went
Speaker 1: through every allegation, we would be here forever. So in
Speaker 1: terms of recent proven violations of workers rights. They also
Speaker 1: were ordered to pay truck drivers fifty four million dollars
Speaker 1: after a California jury found that they had intentionally underpaid them,
Speaker 1: And just as recently as this summer, a report from
Speaker 1: workers advocacy group A Better Balance found that Walmart routinely
Speaker 1: refuses to accept doctor's notes, pedalizes workers who take care
Speaker 1: of a sick family member, and otherwise punishes employees for
Speaker 1: lawful absences. There's a ton of retaliation in the Walmart culture,
Speaker 1: and it feels like, despite what the policies might be
Speaker 1: on the books, that managers in each and every store
Speaker 1: had a ton of leeway and made kind of arbitrary
Speaker 1: choices and how they treated workers fairly or not so fairly,
Speaker 1: exactly Emily, And later on in the show, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk to Janie Grice, a Walmart employee who says that's
Speaker 1: exactly what's going on at Walmart. And a recent report,
Speaker 1: based on the survey of more than a thousand employees
Speaker 1: just like Janie, accuses Walmart violating the American with Disabilities Act,
Speaker 1: the Family and Medical Leave Act, and a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other worker protection laws that are already on the books.
Speaker 1: These are workers rights that we've already fought for, and
Speaker 1: by the way, we don't really have that many in
Speaker 1: this country right now, and a lot of them have
Speaker 1: been peeled back or or or rolled back in states
Speaker 1: that are right to work, states where labor laws have
Speaker 1: become even weaker, and protections for workers have become sort
Speaker 1: of a passe and not quite a thing anymore. But
Speaker 1: even when it comes to the laws that we do
Speaker 1: have on the books, and earlier complaint was made with
Speaker 1: the e O c our our pals that we always
Speaker 1: like to mention friends of the show, the Equal Employment
Speaker 1: Opportunity Commission, and in a lawsuit filed last month, uh
Speaker 1: reports show that Walmart discriminated against pregnant workers. And when
Speaker 1: you really drilled down on the way that Walmart deals
Speaker 1: with women, you really see that the problem is magnified
Speaker 1: when you bring gender into the mix. The vast majority
Speaker 1: of associates receive no paid leave or flexible schedules to
Speaker 1: help them take care of their families. And actually Walmart
Speaker 1: doesn't release their data on pay equity, but a two
Speaker 1: thousand and one study found the man at Walmart make
Speaker 1: an average of five thousand two hundred dollars more than women.
Speaker 1: And that's just for the same work. And that's just
Speaker 1: what we know about, right, So it's not good. It's
Speaker 1: not good, and I think it's you know, we all
Speaker 1: sort of know that Walmart sucks. We know that they
Speaker 1: don't give their employees benefits, and those prices, the low
Speaker 1: low prices like lure so many of us in um
Speaker 1: and I always feel guilty when I, on occasion, stroll
Speaker 1: into a Walmart because I'm in the middle of nowhere
Speaker 1: on the road and i need a protein bar or something,
Speaker 1: and they've made the experience seem really quite friendly and pleasant,
Speaker 1: and they've really tried to brand themselves as like low
Speaker 1: prices because you America deserves a break, and they play
Speaker 1: into the financial insecurity that they're perpetuating. That's something I've
Speaker 1: always found so difficult to wrap my head around with
Speaker 1: Walmart is that I get it if you are a
Speaker 1: frazzled single parent and you just need to run in
Speaker 1: to grab some stuff on the sheep and then like
Speaker 1: run back home and make dinner. Part of me can
Speaker 1: totally understand why maybe Walmart's labor practices aren't the first
Speaker 1: and foremost thing in your mind when you're just trying
Speaker 1: to get through your day. Yeah, and everybody's got to
Speaker 1: make those tough choices about the family budget and stretching
Speaker 1: the family dollar. But it's important to know what you're supporting.
Speaker 1: It's important to know that. In two thousand one, Walmart
Speaker 1: was at the center of a of a lawsuit, a
Speaker 1: class action lawsuit, Duke's versus Walmart, which was a landmark
Speaker 1: gender discrimination case that made it all the way up
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. Betty Duke's Walmart greeter, despite six
Speaker 1: years of work and totally positive performance reviews, she was
Speaker 1: denied the training that she needed to advance to a
Speaker 1: higher salaried position, which, by the way, is something that
Speaker 1: Walmart constantly is telling people. You know, the opportunities are
Speaker 1: here for you. You You just gotta pull yourself up by
Speaker 1: your blue Walmart best, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: they make it sound like if you're not rising in
Speaker 1: the ranks of management, that's on you, because we've given
Speaker 1: you every opportunity, And they try to make it clear
Speaker 1: or at least there's i think a branded message that
Speaker 1: we're here to offer career paths, and that's not the case.
Speaker 1: In reality, a lot of the workers that we've heard
Speaker 1: from and Janey, who we're going to hear from in
Speaker 1: a minute, makes it very clear that those opportunities are
Speaker 1: not given freely or equally. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: Even in researching this episode, when you go to Walmart's
Speaker 1: own website for employees and potential employees, the first thing
Speaker 1: that jumps out at you is opportunity in advancement. They've
Speaker 1: clearly sold potential employees on this idea that if they
Speaker 1: join up with Walmart and work hard, they can work
Speaker 1: their way through their ranks. And they love having all
Speaker 1: these stats about how many of their employees started as
Speaker 1: associates and then worked throwing up to management. It's clearly
Speaker 1: a branding choice that they love relying on and selling
Speaker 1: and packaging to make themselves seem really warm and cuddly.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it sound like the American dreams? It does sound
Speaker 1: like the American dream is also a false sale, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is not really like class mobility. What the hell
Speaker 1: is that in this country anymore? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So it seems like a battle of perception. Is it
Speaker 1: on you, the individual to rise in the ranks, and therefore,
Speaker 1: if you don't it's a personal failure or is it
Speaker 1: the systemic injustices that are perpetuated by clear, calculated, strategic,
Speaker 1: and structural choices about how this organized station runs its business. Well,
Speaker 1: the one point six million women involved in this duke's
Speaker 1: case would say it is not their choices, it's a
Speaker 1: systematic way of keeping women down who work at Walmart.
Speaker 1: In this filing, one plaintiffs store manager justified giving a
Speaker 1: large raise to a male employee because he had a
Speaker 1: family to support all the daddy bump. Remember we talked
Speaker 1: about the mommy tax, which what was it? The daddy bonus?
Speaker 1: He basically openly acknowledged, this is why I'm giving this
Speaker 1: dude to promotion. And all the women and mothers in
Speaker 1: the room were like than. He later suggestive to the
Speaker 1: plaintiff that she quote doll up and quote blow the
Speaker 1: cobwebs off her makeup to make herself more promotable. Who
Speaker 1: the says blow the cobwebs off your makeup? I can
Speaker 1: close my eyes and see who this guy is. A
Speaker 1: packed lip of dip. He's like, you know what, sweetheart,
Speaker 1: if you just blow the cobwebs off that makeup? Now,
Speaker 1: what is this accent? I don't know. I like went
Speaker 1: for some Texan and then it turned into like something
Speaker 1: really not Texan. But it feels like this, like deep South,
Speaker 1: good old boy. It's like a complete throwback, and I
Speaker 1: think that that really illustrates the kind of climate that
Speaker 1: these women say they were dealing with the Walmart. I
Speaker 1: just offended all of our listeners in the deeps. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I actually love Texas. Just the record, So we were
Speaker 1: talking about this class action lawsuit and how they systematically
Speaker 1: discriminated against women. So in a bunch of the store
Speaker 1: managers at California, Walmart's not deep South. By the way,
Speaker 1: we're advised at the institute where Walmart trains its managers
Speaker 1: that the reason there are few senior female managers at
Speaker 1: Walmart is because men were quote more aggressive in achieving
Speaker 1: those levels of responsibility than women, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: we already know as BS all the data set is
Speaker 1: that it's not the fact that women are less aggressive
Speaker 1: and not going for promotions and things like that. Actually
Speaker 1: that's not true. Wants to embrace aggression. Who's like lauding
Speaker 1: aggression here? What the hell is that about? I think
Speaker 1: they mean an assertive which is a different soapbox that
Speaker 1: I could get on. And this also just goes to
Speaker 1: show you how much bad HR training is out there.
Speaker 1: In my like putting on my diversity and inclusion HR
Speaker 1: training hat, like, there are slides out there that say,
Speaker 1: here's why women just can't get it right, Like, come on, ladies,
Speaker 1: be more like men? What is with me in accents today?
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm in like a loopy rage about
Speaker 1: this though, So listen to this. The managers at the institute,
Speaker 1: we're cautioned that efforts to promote women could lead to
Speaker 1: the selection of less qualified women over more qualified men,
Speaker 1: Which is that same tired idea that if you promote
Speaker 1: women to promoting people who aren't as good, which we've
Speaker 1: already debunked and our Silicon Valley episode. It is the
Speaker 1: equal and opposite reaction to the gender and inclusion conversation,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't surprise me, sadly, but it does remind
Speaker 1: me of how basic the fundamental differences are between folks
Speaker 1: who see gender and inclusion training and promotion as fixing
Speaker 1: a flawed and inherently biased problem versus folks who think
Speaker 1: it's like giving an upper hand and you know, stealing
Speaker 1: jobs from white men stealing jobs from more qualified white
Speaker 1: candidates than giving them to less qualified women and people
Speaker 1: of color. Yeah, it also belieses the assumption that aggressive
Speaker 1: is the model archetype of leadership, which is partly probably
Speaker 1: the reason why so many of their managers pursue such
Speaker 1: abhorrent policy. Totally, and you know, I have a whole
Speaker 1: thing against that. I hate when people say, oh, if
Speaker 1: you want to get ahead, just be just be more aggressive,
Speaker 1: be more like men. I actually don't think that's good advice. Same.
Speaker 1: I have a whole thing on assertive versus aggressive, which
Speaker 1: will will dabble into more, but it's real. It's assertive.
Speaker 1: You want to be assertive. You want to be reciprocal
Speaker 1: in caring about other people's rights, but clear about what
Speaker 1: you want and need, but not aggressive, not steamrolling over
Speaker 1: other people. That's not what leaders do anyway. Sadly, this
Speaker 1: case was granted class action status, but when it landed
Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court, basically due to a loyally legal technicality,
Speaker 1: the status was reversed. In a five for decision. The
Speaker 1: conservative judges of the court felt that the women's complaints
Speaker 1: were too dissimilar, there were too many, there was such
Speaker 1: a myriad of ways in which women were being screwed
Speaker 1: over that it wasn't fair to lump them into one
Speaker 1: class action suit, which is just like, really, there's too
Speaker 1: many nuances to how they women over like to make
Speaker 1: it a class action lawsuits exactly. And you know who
Speaker 1: we have to thank for that is the late Anton Scalia.
Speaker 1: But of course our old friend and notorio RBG. Ruth
Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg had a lot to say about that. She
Speaker 1: was a dissending vote in this case, and she said
Speaker 1: that she found that gender bias suffused Walmart's corporate culture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like all the judges agreed that there
Speaker 1: was a problem with the form of the case, which
Speaker 1: didn't argue that one million plus employees were discriminated against
Speaker 1: in the same way. So it seems like someone's legal
Speaker 1: team got lost on a technicality. Yeah, and it really
Speaker 1: kind of set the tone that Walmart was able to,
Speaker 1: I think, get away with unfair labor practices, particularly as
Speaker 1: it pertains to women, for a while on a mass scale,
Speaker 1: without repercussions. And I'm sure they had the best lawyers
Speaker 1: in the world, you know. And and we're not lawyers,
Speaker 1: so you know, we're not we're not able to break
Speaker 1: apart the flaws in the case that was made, but
Speaker 1: it does feel like they missed the point that the
Speaker 1: justices agreed on the fact that these were discriminatory practices,
Speaker 1: but they were just not similar enough in nature to
Speaker 1: file in a class action lawsuit exactly. And these kinds
Speaker 1: of disputes have not gone away, And in fact, earlier
Speaker 1: this week, almost six years after the courts throughout the
Speaker 1: Duke's case, more women are coming forward to sue Walmart
Speaker 1: alleging gender discrimination. Now, this new suit alleges that Walmart
Speaker 1: is violating Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. Right, So that's a federal law that
Speaker 1: prohibits employers from discriminating against employees on the basis of sex, race, color,
Speaker 1: national origin, and religion. And it really applies to businesses
Speaker 1: with fifteen or more employees, including governments. So obviously Walmart
Speaker 1: fits the bill. And in this lawsuit, they alleged that
Speaker 1: Walmart's in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: in Virginia had a disparate impact. So that could mean,
Speaker 1: you know, in wages, in hiring rates, in promotions, in
Speaker 1: firing in terms of its female employees in those regions,
Speaker 1: and it was not justified by any kind of business necessity,
Speaker 1: So it was just pure discrimination. And I think the
Speaker 1: guests that we'll talk to later in the episode, who
Speaker 1: is actually based in South Carolina, can really speak to
Speaker 1: what she's seen as a female employee working at Walmart.
Speaker 1: We're gonna dive into some of the ways that Walmart
Speaker 1: has tried to shed their not so nice image in
Speaker 1: favor of a cuter, cuddlier, dare I say, more feminist
Speaker 1: branding after this clickbreak and we're back, and we were
Speaker 1: just talking about some of the ways that we kind
Speaker 1: of already know Walmart isn't so great, But what's the
Speaker 1: deal with Modcloth? Where do they come in? So you
Speaker 1: may have noticed that Amazon is really taking over our,
Speaker 1: you know, e commerce landscape, and Walmart has really been
Speaker 1: trying to adopt a hipper, more modern vibe to compete exactly.
Speaker 1: So They've added free shipping on their website, They've acquired
Speaker 1: trendy e commerce outlets like jet dot com, and this
Speaker 1: expansion for Walmart is, okay, how do we keep our
Speaker 1: big box retailers relevant in an e comm era? And
Speaker 1: so they've made strategic acquisitions to their company that can
Speaker 1: help with their brand, can help them stay relevant, can
Speaker 1: help them stay forward facing, and that is part of
Speaker 1: the reason that they wanted to and successfully acquired mod Cloth.
Speaker 1: So Montcloth is one of those companies with a cult following.
Speaker 1: If you're like me, Like I said earlier in the show,
Speaker 1: you Love It, women lived for this brand, and I
Speaker 1: can totally understand why it had one of those cute
Speaker 1: founding stories. Montcloth was founded in two thousand two in
Speaker 1: a college dorm room. Susan Gregg Koger and her then
Speaker 1: boyfriend Eric Coger founded it while they were students at
Speaker 1: Carnegie Mellon. And basically it's one of those companies that
Speaker 1: went from being founded in a dorm room to being really,
Speaker 1: really successful and lucrative, which I think is a story
Speaker 1: that everyone kind of loves. So after nixing this idea
Speaker 1: of selling on eBay because she was a thrifter and
Speaker 1: apparently there was a thing that a lot of boss
Speaker 1: ladies were doing in this time period, um, the couple
Speaker 1: ended up being able to support themselves throughout school by
Speaker 1: starting their own site. So Monecloth was initially selling vintage
Speaker 1: clothing through their website, but because they only had like
Speaker 1: one or two sizes per item, and they were getting
Speaker 1: to the point between two thousand and two and two
Speaker 1: thousand and five when they were getting like seventy thousand
Speaker 1: unique shoppers a day, and realized, Hey, even though we're
Speaker 1: just college students and this was sort of a hobby,
Speaker 1: this is something I could do as a full time
Speaker 1: job upon graduation in a year. So it was certainly
Speaker 1: more interesting than what the career center had to offer.
Speaker 1: And they realized if they got serious about scaling their
Speaker 1: business that they could actually pursue it. So Susan and
Speaker 1: Eric decided they were going to pursue financing. They went
Speaker 1: to a major fashion trade show in Las Vegas. They
Speaker 1: put together their first own original collection that was not
Speaker 1: thrifted but was inspired by the sort of vintage look
Speaker 1: that Monocloth had built its brand around, and they ended
Speaker 1: up raising some serious capital. Folks put a million dollars
Speaker 1: into the business and it took off, and so Moncloth
Speaker 1: grew from this very like, oh, very scrappy, thrifty female
Speaker 1: lead endeavor to a venture backed, scalable business that was
Speaker 1: making real money, which is so cool. I mean that
Speaker 1: story of just being someone who loved to shop in
Speaker 1: fifth stores and vintage stores and had an eye for fashion,
Speaker 1: turning that from a hobby that you do from your
Speaker 1: dorm room into a million dollar company. That's the stuff
Speaker 1: dreams are made of. Another thing that I think made
Speaker 1: Modo such a cult favorite is that they actually genuinely
Speaker 1: seem to care about women and feminist causes. Right they
Speaker 1: walked the walk, they didn't just talk the talk. So
Speaker 1: in two thousand and fourteen, they were the first retailer
Speaker 1: to sign the Hero's Pledge in advertising, which promised not
Speaker 1: to use photoshop on their images. They were really known
Speaker 1: for using staff members as models and other real women
Speaker 1: instead of professional models, and had always been good about
Speaker 1: inclusive of sizing and fit for different body types. The
Speaker 1: employees also seem to really believe in its feminist mission.
Speaker 1: One employee told jez Bell that it was an absolute
Speaker 1: dream job. The thing that made it so special is
Speaker 1: that the company was genuine when it talked about its values.
Speaker 1: Everyone that worked there shared those values personally. It was
Speaker 1: a place that you all felt good about the work
Speaker 1: that you were doing. Those values explicitly involved feminism. She
Speaker 1: adds Susan is a feminist, she's open about that, and
Speaker 1: the company aligned with those values. I think that's why
Speaker 1: it grew so rapidly. And I really agree. I think
Speaker 1: there are so many crappy companies out there that talk
Speaker 1: a big game about being good for women and wanting
Speaker 1: to market toward women. Maybe your Ivanka Trump's of the
Speaker 1: world might be included in that, But then when you
Speaker 1: pick it apart, it actually is terrible for women or
Speaker 1: treats women badly, or is it feminist at all, or
Speaker 1: makes all kinds of crappy gross employment and labor choices.
Speaker 1: I think it was really refreshing for women to have
Speaker 1: a clothing retailer that actually one made clothes that you
Speaker 1: would want to wear, and to seem to really respect
Speaker 1: feminist ideals, not just in a way that was lips
Speaker 1: of this, but in a way that was authentic. Also.
Speaker 1: This was like years before Beyonce I danced in front
Speaker 1: of the word feminist. This was before feminism was the
Speaker 1: de facto marketing strategy for all women's business models. Um
Speaker 1: And then in March, Modcloth was acquired by Walmart, Like what, like,
Speaker 1: how does that happen? How does that story end? That way,
Speaker 1: it seems like such a strange choice for Modcloth that
Speaker 1: you have to wonder why. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly
Speaker 1: what their fans were asking. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: outcry online. Connie Warner, a Modcloth fan who started the
Speaker 1: boycott Modcloth page on Facebook, said, the thing I loved
Speaker 1: about Modcloth is that I knew the clothes I bought
Speaker 1: there couldn't be found at Macy's and weren't worn by
Speaker 1: the masses no more. I've unsubscribed from their emails. I
Speaker 1: refused to shop at a store owned by Walmart, And
Speaker 1: it just seems like for Walmart, a brand booster and
Speaker 1: a digital acquisition in t stay relevant in this era
Speaker 1: of e commerce. For Modcloth, it seems like a death
Speaker 1: sentence totally, especially when your customers have so much writing
Speaker 1: on you as this warm, cuddly, you know, feminist warm
Speaker 1: fuzzies organization. To just sort of yank that rug from
Speaker 1: under them seems like such a strange choice to me.
Speaker 1: And it's no wonder that people on Twitter there was
Speaker 1: so much hate. Like when the founder of mod Cloth
Speaker 1: put the statement out on her blog that they were
Speaker 1: getting bought by Walmart, all of the comments were basically like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're selling your soul enjoying all the money. You said
Speaker 1: that you were a feminist, but clearly you have sold
Speaker 1: us out. I hope it was worth it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: tech crunches reporting that it's sold for between fifty and
Speaker 1: seventy five million, So I'm pretty sure that the Kogers
Speaker 1: are sitting on a pile of money saying, oh, our
Speaker 1: internet fans are are mad at us, but somehow we'll
Speaker 1: get on. She's like wiping her tears and hundred dollar
Speaker 1: bills exactly, just like blowing her nose in them, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like the state meant she put
Speaker 1: out about this was very eye opening in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And I'll be clear here y'all. I was never a
Speaker 1: big modcloth fan. I am not a Zoe Deschanel aesthetic
Speaker 1: type Portlandia chick. This is not my thing. So I
Speaker 1: was totally not in the cult of modcloth. And when
Speaker 1: I read this quote from her, her statement that she
Speaker 1: put out about this, which I should say, she's a
Speaker 1: co owner with her husband, so we shouldn't put all
Speaker 1: the blame on her. But when I read the statement
Speaker 1: that they made about this sale in this choice, I
Speaker 1: was like, this is the most narcissistic thing I've ever
Speaker 1: read that does not value the response that her fans
Speaker 1: are giving her. Here's what she said, so she told
Speaker 1: Jezebel quote, I spent the last fifteen years of my
Speaker 1: life working on this business and trying to make a
Speaker 1: positive difference in the world. It hurts to hear former
Speaker 1: employees and customers tell me that I'm selling out or
Speaker 1: that I'm ruining the brand a k A. My life's
Speaker 1: worked so far, But now that I've had some time
Speaker 1: to think about everything, I've realized the negative reactions are
Speaker 1: actually an indication of how strong the Modcloth brand and
Speaker 1: community are. People truly and passionately care about it and
Speaker 1: feel like it's something that they own, and that's extremely
Speaker 1: hard to create in a brand. So I'm proud of
Speaker 1: that reaction too in some way. Okay, first of all,
Speaker 1: that is some real double speak of oh, well, actually
Speaker 1: it's a good thing because it just shows that our
Speaker 1: customers love our brand that much but they hate us now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, aren't I amazing at creating a brand that
Speaker 1: so many people bought into that they now hate me
Speaker 1: for making this totally off brand choice about how to
Speaker 1: cash out. Also, do you buy that she didn't quite
Speaker 1: know how passionately people felt about this brand. Do you
Speaker 1: think that's just something she's saying after that, I think
Speaker 1: she's I mean, who knows. I'm speculating, But if I
Speaker 1: saw Sophia m Rosso bankrupt her business and sell Girl
Speaker 1: Boss like she's been selling it and start holding women's
Speaker 1: empowerment conferences and traveling the world talking about what women
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs should be doing, I would probably cash in on
Speaker 1: that too. And maybe she had no options. Maybe she's
Speaker 1: got reasons that we don't know about, but she's said
Speaker 1: that she wants to travel the world. I'm sure she's
Speaker 1: going to have her face on the cover of a
Speaker 1: book sometime soon, touting how to start a feminist revolution
Speaker 1: one vintage piece of clothing at a time. And honestly,
Speaker 1: that like grinds my gears a little bit because she
Speaker 1: left her company in the hands of CEO Matt Cannis,
Speaker 1: who routinely makes negative comments about the use of plus
Speaker 1: size models and wanted to see fewer of them on
Speaker 1: the site, telling employees that they weren't quote aspirational to
Speaker 1: look at. Although he denies saying that, Yeah, he denies
Speaker 1: making these comments. He says that he never said that.
Speaker 1: He says, look at our track record of including you know,
Speaker 1: plus size women on the site. But a really interesting
Speaker 1: article from Jez Bell called how Much Health, straight from
Speaker 1: its feminist beginnings and ended at the Walmart property. They
Speaker 1: actually look at glass door reviews from former employees, and
Speaker 1: it really sounds like there was some issue in terms
Speaker 1: of how they were going to move forward with being
Speaker 1: size inclusive. And I think that's so awful considering the
Speaker 1: fact that that was one of the main things that
Speaker 1: made Modcloth Modcloth was the fact that they offered sizes
Speaker 1: for everybody. They offered closed on everybody, And it seems
Speaker 1: like this was something that as soon as the company
Speaker 1: switched ownership, they were no longer really invested in protecting.
Speaker 1: It was like this legacy that they had built. As
Speaker 1: soon as they got a new CEO or bought by Walmart,
Speaker 1: that legacy started to be shipped away. And that, I mean,
Speaker 1: those are hard choices to make as a business owner.
Speaker 1: They really are. I can't imagine like a future in
Speaker 1: which I would leave my company in the hands of
Speaker 1: someone else. But because I care so much about what
Speaker 1: we do, and because I started it, which I understand
Speaker 1: the kind of love that you have for a community
Speaker 1: and a business that you've create aided just you wouldn't
Speaker 1: hand your baby off to someone who doesn't share your values.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be part of the negotiation and vetting process
Speaker 1: of a potential acquisition. I mean, maybe they just felt
Speaker 1: like this was their only option and they wanted out.
Speaker 1: But it just feels like a huge PR win for
Speaker 1: Walmart and a huge fail on so many levels for
Speaker 1: everyone that loved moder Cloth except for those who are
Speaker 1: sitting on a cash pile right now. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: mean there's there are a lot of their staff members
Speaker 1: are leaving vocally, a lot of their clients and customers
Speaker 1: are leaving vocally. I mean, who knows exactly how it
Speaker 1: went down except the folks who were in the room.
Speaker 1: But the founders said that they would be spending the
Speaker 1: next year traveling the world and writing a book, and
Speaker 1: that we've lived three lifetimes in the last fifteen years
Speaker 1: and it would feel really good to share our successes,
Speaker 1: failures and learnings with others. And y'all get ready for
Speaker 1: some pr campaign around how she did it and how
Speaker 1: you can do it too. And that's the thing that
Speaker 1: bothers me most of all. It's like Girl Boss all
Speaker 1: over again, which they just made a financially ruinous decision
Speaker 1: for their company and she's going to capitalize on it. Well,
Speaker 1: that's exactly the thing. As jez Bell points out at
Speaker 1: the end of this article, you know who doesn't really
Speaker 1: have the option to travel the world and sell their story.
Speaker 1: The rest of the employees who are still let my cloth.
Speaker 1: One of them is quoted in this article of saying
Speaker 1: I'm left really sad and conflicted. I've been actively boycotting
Speaker 1: Walmart for years. Having to sign papers saying I now
Speaker 1: work for them is a tough pill to swallow, and
Speaker 1: it just makes you think they probably learned all these
Speaker 1: people into working for what they thought was this great
Speaker 1: feminist company, only to pull the rug from under them,
Speaker 1: you know, for money. Well, it's just like faux feminism
Speaker 1: on display, y'all. It's not about what you say, it's
Speaker 1: about what you do. It is not about one woman's
Speaker 1: success story. That's all feminism is. It's not about supporting
Speaker 1: a corporate conglomy like Walmart that routinely discriminates against women.
Speaker 1: How can you reconcile those two beliefs. I am not
Speaker 1: trying to throw shade at a woman entrepreneur or any
Speaker 1: entrepreneur who's trying to make a buck. I get it, like,
Speaker 1: good on you, but don't talk the feminist talk and
Speaker 1: hand your company over to Walmart with their labor practices
Speaker 1: and their outright hostility towards women exactly. And I think
Speaker 1: you know, as women as consumers, something that we advocate
Speaker 1: a lot more on the show is just knowing where
Speaker 1: your money is going. So if you're someone who shops
Speaker 1: at Walmart, shops at Modcloth, know what you're getting into,
Speaker 1: know where your dollar is going, and know what you're
Speaker 1: going to support. That's that's been my argument since day one.
Speaker 1: I get it. I get that not everybody is ready
Speaker 1: to cut Walmart out of their life completely, because maybe
Speaker 1: that's not realistic for everybody. But I think that we
Speaker 1: should be advocating or folks to understand what the companies
Speaker 1: they support are actually doing in the world. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what is so troubling for me, particularly when
Speaker 1: you look at the fact that Walmart kind of obscures
Speaker 1: that they own mod Cloth. When you go to modcloth
Speaker 1: dot com, it doesn't say a Walmart company there there,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's a coincidence. Oh yeah, they
Speaker 1: want this not to be in our podcast. They explicitly
Speaker 1: want to not associate their Walmart brand. They want to
Speaker 1: keep taking millennial women's money exactly. That's what they want, y'all.
Speaker 1: So just know you're being duped into supporting Walmart for
Speaker 1: shopping out Modclough right now. And as feminists, you know,
Speaker 1: it's always important to be thinking about all different kinds
Speaker 1: of women. If your feminism is just for upper middle
Speaker 1: class ladies, it's not really, at least in my book,
Speaker 1: it's not really feminism. And so when you're spending your money,
Speaker 1: think about how other women are being treated, how that
Speaker 1: money is impacting other women who might not be like yourself.
Speaker 1: What are you going to support in their life. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit more about what it looks
Speaker 1: like for women employees at Walmart after this thick break
Speaker 1: and we're back today. We are so thrilled to be
Speaker 1: joined by Jamie Grace. Janie is a Walmart associate and
Speaker 1: a member of our Walmart, an organization that really harnesses
Speaker 1: the power of Walmart associates to campaign for better labor
Speaker 1: practices and therapy. Janie, thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: here today. Thank you for having me so, Jennie, tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about our Walmart. What is our Walmart?
Speaker 1: Our Walmart is this fabulous organization that I was lucky
Speaker 1: enough to be able to join. Um. It's an organization
Speaker 1: that were founded by current and former associates of Walmart,
Speaker 1: fightings for the needs of the associates. And how long
Speaker 1: have you been a Walmart associate? How did you find
Speaker 1: yourself working there? Wow, I've been with Walmart now for
Speaker 1: four years as of yesterday. I used to hear such
Speaker 1: good things about Walmart and how it was a great
Speaker 1: company to work for. Well, evidently that was long before
Speaker 1: my term because I hadn't seen it yet. And what
Speaker 1: happened with me personally, I lost my job UM that
Speaker 1: I had prior, Well, it was years prior. The unemployment
Speaker 1: rate in my my my my talent was so high,
Speaker 1: we had the whole we had the highest unemployment rate
Speaker 1: in the state of South Carolina, and it was really
Speaker 1: really hard trying to sign a job. And I put
Speaker 1: in an application of Walwar Walbar maybe two or three
Speaker 1: years prior to me actually getting a job. I actually
Speaker 1: had a job with UM the library when I got
Speaker 1: hired on at Walmart, And the reason why I left
Speaker 1: that job is because it was actually parts fine. So
Speaker 1: when I was hired at Walmart, the manager who hired
Speaker 1: me said that she would give me, you know, enough
Speaker 1: hours to where you know, I could live in for
Speaker 1: a while. That's that's what was happening. But you know,
Speaker 1: with different managers, different things happened. So it all depends
Speaker 1: on who. You know. Why is it important to you
Speaker 1: to join an organization like our Walmart that's involved in
Speaker 1: helping associates speak up for better better pay and better
Speaker 1: labor practices. Well because I, I, for one, I got
Speaker 1: tired of UM feeling like I was alone in this.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that there were a whole lot of
Speaker 1: more associates that was going through the exact, exact same
Speaker 1: things that me and so many more of my coworkers
Speaker 1: were going through. So being able to reach out or
Speaker 1: have to or reach out to you and let you know, well,
Speaker 1: we have an organization and we need people like you
Speaker 1: to you know, speak out about injustices that that are
Speaker 1: going on within Walmart. So that was just like uh
Speaker 1: eye opener for me. Yeah, it's probably really impactful to
Speaker 1: know that you're not alone with your with what you're
Speaker 1: dealing with. So, if you're dealing with low pay, discrimination,
Speaker 1: things that don't seem fair, sometimes it probably feels like
Speaker 1: you're dealing with that just on your own and you
Speaker 1: have to a shoulder that burden just on your own.
Speaker 1: But when you find out actually a lot of associates
Speaker 1: at Walmart are dealing with this, it could probably be
Speaker 1: pretty powerful. I was amazed that how many other people
Speaker 1: was going through exactly what I was going through. So
Speaker 1: what are some of the stories that you've heard about
Speaker 1: other people's experiences at Walmart? Oh? We where should I start? Um?
Speaker 1: I've heard about associates who we're really really sick and
Speaker 1: had to go into work, and some have actually fallen dead,
Speaker 1: you know, because they didn't want to take their time
Speaker 1: off to you know, go to the doctor, to take
Speaker 1: the care of themselves because they couldn't afford them its work.
Speaker 1: And I've heard so many stories about how pregnant women,
Speaker 1: you know, they're out and they're only out for like
Speaker 1: a little bit of time. They can't really involve with
Speaker 1: their kids because they have to get back to work.
Speaker 1: And oh my goodness, there's it's there's so many horror stories.
Speaker 1: That sounds like such a tough choice to have to make. Right,
Speaker 1: to have to choose between putting money on you know,
Speaker 1: in the bank, and food on the table, and working
Speaker 1: conditions that leave people feeling like there's no choice? How
Speaker 1: do you How does that make you feel like going
Speaker 1: into work every day? It makes you upset? I mean,
Speaker 1: because nobody should have to choose between work and home
Speaker 1: or you know, family, that that should be a given
Speaker 1: at what's the point of time Walmart was a family
Speaker 1: oriented company? Is so much has change. It used to
Speaker 1: be more about the associates in them being with their families,
Speaker 1: but now it's more, uh, Walmart and money. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes you upset because it's just not right. It's
Speaker 1: not fair. It's not fair for their associates. Has there
Speaker 1: ever been a time when you felt like you were
Speaker 1: facing a really impossible choice about what you needed to
Speaker 1: be doing to provide for yourself or your loved ones.
Speaker 1: Was there a choice that you've had to face that
Speaker 1: in terms of how Walmart treats its associates every single week.
Speaker 1: Don't pay for that choice. Because now that I was promoted,
Speaker 1: I make good by the hour, But when you're not
Speaker 1: getting any hours, it's difficult. So it's every sent the
Speaker 1: the entire four years that I've been with Walmart, it's
Speaker 1: always been a choice of am I gonna pay my rent?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna pay my car payment? How am I?
Speaker 1: How am I gonna pay my light bill? So it's always,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's been a struggle. It's always been
Speaker 1: a struggle since I've been with Walmart. And and that's
Speaker 1: frustrating in itself, because nobody should have to choose how
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay your bills or how are you gonna eat,
Speaker 1: or how are you gonna say it here of your family?
Speaker 1: That should never be a choice. And it sounds like
Speaker 1: you've been moving up the pipeline in Walmart. So what
Speaker 1: a folks at Walmart had to say about this, you know,
Speaker 1: when when you were given this promotion but yet still
Speaker 1: don't get the hours that you need to make ends
Speaker 1: meet all the time? How do the folks at Walmart
Speaker 1: make that case to you about why you should stay
Speaker 1: working with them and why you should invest in their company. Well,
Speaker 1: they try to run the line. Well, you know, there's
Speaker 1: always career opportunities to Walmart and you can always advance
Speaker 1: and you know, in your career. But that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 1: It is, but it's not because the way the way
Speaker 1: that they do things now, they make people not want
Speaker 1: to stay, you know, because they don't have these full
Speaker 1: time positions that they talk so much about. It's only
Speaker 1: certain departments, uh that have full time positions. And see
Speaker 1: me myself, I work on the front end. I'm a
Speaker 1: customer service manager. So we see a lot of cashiers
Speaker 1: and customer service managers who just work part term. You
Speaker 1: may go in for four hours a day, and that's
Speaker 1: just ridiculous as an adult to have to go in
Speaker 1: for those few hours when we have a whole family
Speaker 1: that keep trying to maintain. It doesn't seem like it's
Speaker 1: it makes you feel like a dignified person. It doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like it gives you that. It almost seems like disrespectful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does, it does. It really really does. Because I
Speaker 1: have an eighteen year old and when he was working,
Speaker 1: he works, you know, he works maybe four or five
Speaker 1: hours a day. Here I am almost forty years old
Speaker 1: and I'm doing the same thing as my eight year o.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. I mean, I don't understand how
Speaker 1: they expect for anyone with the family to actually take
Speaker 1: care of their family when you're working so few hours.
Speaker 1: And it's not like they don't need to help, right,
Speaker 1: It's just that they're taking all the work hours that
Speaker 1: they have and chopping them up into tiny, little kinds
Speaker 1: of shift work for associates like you, which seems like
Speaker 1: a very intentional practice, doesn't it. It It seems like a
Speaker 1: very intentional choice that Walmart has made that leaves workers
Speaker 1: like you who are willing and able to give more
Speaker 1: time feeling like you can't even get the hours that
Speaker 1: you want. Jimmy, can you speak a little bit about
Speaker 1: how Walmart is for women? Um? What's the climate like
Speaker 1: for the women who work there? Hell, the majority of
Speaker 1: people who work there are women. UM, I can't really
Speaker 1: say that, you know, it's an awful company that really,
Speaker 1: you know, supports women, because that's not what I've seen. Um.
Speaker 1: They've been, you know, repeatedly sued for a gender discrination
Speaker 1: and they refused to disclose how much women are paid
Speaker 1: in comparison to men. I actually went to the shareholders
Speaker 1: meeting in Arkansas earlier this year, and I was able
Speaker 1: to actually, you know, ask them to give us those
Speaker 1: numbers and they will not release them at all. And
Speaker 1: from a report two thousand three, they found that women
Speaker 1: working at Walmart at any level, they are a fifty
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars less then they're real counterparts. So that
Speaker 1: that says a lot. That's back in two thousand three
Speaker 1: and here it is. So every daily nothing changed because
Speaker 1: they're not releasing as data. We're asking that they're not
Speaker 1: releasing it. And you did mention that you see a
Speaker 1: lot of pregnant employees at Walmart having to come back
Speaker 1: um soon after giving birth. It sounds like there's no
Speaker 1: rights to maternity leave or paid leave, to take care
Speaker 1: of a sick person in your family, or to recover
Speaker 1: from childbirth. Is that correct? You know, that's great especially
Speaker 1: for it like the lord level associates now management they
Speaker 1: get I think it's about twelve weeks they leave when
Speaker 1: they go out go out with their pregnancies. But as
Speaker 1: far as associates for my level or lord, they don't.
Speaker 1: They don't get the same things. They don't get the
Speaker 1: same things. But but our Walmart, we just want to
Speaker 1: change and got Walmart to adopt the new pregnancy pregnancy
Speaker 1: um policy requiring the company to treat pregnancy as its
Speaker 1: tipperary disability. So now yes, yes, so now pregnant associates
Speaker 1: can have more accommodations. Do associates otherwise get time to
Speaker 1: run to the restroom very often? Or do you feel
Speaker 1: like that's penalized? Well, that's that's that the sands of
Speaker 1: plant management and the stores. It's very very yeah. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's a lot of variability based on
Speaker 1: who's calling the shots in a particular store, despite what
Speaker 1: the policies might be. You're saying that it really depends
Speaker 1: on the management that you're a director, That's exactly how
Speaker 1: it goes. Because what I've learned from UM since I've
Speaker 1: been at Walmart, even the managers don't know policies, and
Speaker 1: and with the work app the hour Walmart started, that
Speaker 1: has really, really, really to the associates. It's been beneficial
Speaker 1: to beneficial to management because half the time they don't
Speaker 1: even know the policy. Just recently, UM, I was having
Speaker 1: a conversation with my personnel manager and I was telling her.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I went back and looking my
Speaker 1: check stuff, and I noticed that if you work a
Speaker 1: consecutives for a weeks full time hours that you're supposed
Speaker 1: to be guaranteed the full supposition. She was like, no,
Speaker 1: full time, it's thirty four hours. I was like, no, ma'am,
Speaker 1: it's thirty two hours. I wanted so bad. It's tell her,
Speaker 1: maybe you need to download work it so tell us
Speaker 1: about this app? Work What is this app? Oh? My
Speaker 1: goodness is what it is? Walmart? The only time associates
Speaker 1: have time to access policies is while they're on the clock.
Speaker 1: And that's not good for anybody because who has time.
Speaker 1: So our decided that they would get together and come
Speaker 1: up with this app so that associates could go in
Speaker 1: and ask questions and we have experts which on one
Speaker 1: of them, and the experts will go in and answer
Speaker 1: these questions for the associates because nobody has time to
Speaker 1: access policy while on the clock. So Our felt like
Speaker 1: we need to do something about that. We need to
Speaker 1: you know, be able to put it policies right in
Speaker 1: the associate's hands. It's like having a policy professional in
Speaker 1: your pocket while you're on the job, right right, But
Speaker 1: it almost makes me I think that's awesome, but it
Speaker 1: almost makes me a little sad that it had to
Speaker 1: come to that that these Walmart associates are up against
Speaker 1: such misinformation from their own managements sometimes that they need
Speaker 1: to have that third party app to be able to say, no,
Speaker 1: here's what the law is, here's what your rights are.
Speaker 1: And if you're and you can't even really expect your
Speaker 1: manager to protect those rates or even really tell you
Speaker 1: accurately what they are, it's like up to you to
Speaker 1: figure that out. You're exactly right, they can't see how
Speaker 1: you accurately what they are because they don't know themselves.
Speaker 1: It seems like a really whackway to run a business,
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, Like I think it is too.
Speaker 1: I think that should be one of the first things
Speaker 1: before you know, becoming a manager. No policy, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like Walmart doesn't have the resources to train people.
Speaker 1: It's not like they aren't training people. It's not like
Speaker 1: they have a small workforce, like they are one of
Speaker 1: the l there is the largest employer in their country
Speaker 1: and they're the largest private employer in the world exactly,
Speaker 1: So you can't have your policies available to workers who
Speaker 1: aren't on the clock. Like really, obviously that's an intentional choice,
Speaker 1: Like come on, really, Like that's what I'm Loft scratching
Speaker 1: my head hearing from you, Janey about the ways in
Speaker 1: which obstacles seem to be put in individuals pass so
Speaker 1: much so that the burden always falls on you. The
Speaker 1: burden falls on the individual associate to advocate for the
Speaker 1: basic fairness that is already stipulated in the policies. But
Speaker 1: maybe your manager doesn't even know or respect them, and
Speaker 1: so I guess, I guess. My question is, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you feel about this situation with mod Cloth?
Speaker 1: I know that you've been involved with our Walmarts Modcloth campaign.
Speaker 1: How do you feel like that's an extension of what
Speaker 1: Walmart's been doing? Or why is it important to know
Speaker 1: or for our listeners to know what mod cloth is
Speaker 1: just signed up for by being acquired by Walmart. I don't.
Speaker 1: I really don't think mark Cloth knows what they're getting into.
Speaker 1: That's that's what I really think. Um. Then Walmart bottom
Speaker 1: out there, you know, their their closmers were really upset
Speaker 1: because they was like, Wow, we can't believe you would
Speaker 1: sell your line to Walmart. Of all people, Walmart, they
Speaker 1: don't stand up for women. They don't, you know, treat
Speaker 1: their women fairly. And I just believe that this is
Speaker 1: nothing more than an attempt to cover up a long
Speaker 1: history of poor treatment of women. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about what our Walmart is doing around
Speaker 1: moder cloth, your new campaign about it? Yes, ma'am. Well
Speaker 1: what Hour has done. They've launched this campaign called hashtag
Speaker 1: by my Clock, which is b b ye yes, yes. Um.
Speaker 1: What we're doing is um this cyber Monday. We're calling
Speaker 1: on women to stop shopping at Mar Claus and we're
Speaker 1: asking them to join Walmart Associates, former mar Class Expociates
Speaker 1: and other progressive allies to say hashtag by Mark cloy
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's important for all kinds of
Speaker 1: women to know about the way that Walmart treats its employees,
Speaker 1: particularly female employees, because I mean, they need to know.
Speaker 1: Like you said, Walmart is one of the big is
Speaker 1: the biggest corporations in the world, and they don't want
Speaker 1: to they're associates. They don't give enough hours if they do,
Speaker 1: and the scheduling conflict is so crazy, and you know,
Speaker 1: people they don't have times, you know, to take off
Speaker 1: time for themselves or their families that the ship and
Speaker 1: you know, or take pay family leaves and people even
Speaker 1: know this, they really do. And then that we can't
Speaker 1: actually go out and boycott Walmart, we decided, well, here's
Speaker 1: a better way. Maybe there's a help. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, being that they bought my claws, Let's see
Speaker 1: what we can do. Let's see if we can shut
Speaker 1: them down. That's basically what we're trying to do. I
Speaker 1: love it, Jade. I have to say, you schechly as
Speaker 1: like a really bold, outspoken person taking on Walmart and
Speaker 1: not being afraid to advocate and speak up for better practices.
Speaker 1: Do you ever fear of retaliation from Walmart? Er? Has
Speaker 1: that ever been a problem. I haven't as of yet.
Speaker 1: I mean at my store. Like I said, I'm from
Speaker 1: a little small town and we have a smaller supercenter.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows who I am. Before I even joined Hour,
Speaker 1: I was always outspoken, you know. I never held anything
Speaker 1: back because I always feel like what's right is right
Speaker 1: and what's wrong is wrong. And I've been a big
Speaker 1: advocate for myself since I've worked in Walming. I've never
Speaker 1: advocated so hard for myself, Trying to get hours, trying
Speaker 1: to get a better position, trying to get full time.
Speaker 1: So I had to step up. I had to step
Speaker 1: up because I had I used to get tired of
Speaker 1: associates coming to me talking about, you know, things that
Speaker 1: wasn't going their way or things that wasn't right in
Speaker 1: the store, and I was like, well, you know, why
Speaker 1: not just joined with me. You know, they're trying to
Speaker 1: make things better for ourselves. But it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: because I live in the right to work state, so
Speaker 1: everybody is afraid, Well, I don't want to lose to
Speaker 1: my job and something. I had to stop being afraid.
Speaker 1: I was no longer afraid, you know, whether they were.
Speaker 1: I got the point where I really didn't care whether
Speaker 1: they retaliated and not, because as long as I'm setting
Speaker 1: up for was right, I can't be wrong. Where did
Speaker 1: you find that courage, Janey? Because it isn't easy. What
Speaker 1: you've described to us today does not sound easy. And
Speaker 1: you've got a child at home, right, You've got that
Speaker 1: your eighteen year old son that I mean, and he
Speaker 1: still relies on you. I assume what is it feel
Speaker 1: like to have the courage to advocate for yourself while
Speaker 1: you still really want to provide for your family and
Speaker 1: for yourself and make your life better while making lives
Speaker 1: for all associates better Where do you find that courage?
Speaker 1: And my son, I mean that's why I do this.
Speaker 1: I do this for him, and he has a son,
Speaker 1: so I'm a grandmother. I got yes, So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to make a better life for them. You know, I
Speaker 1: should have to be are here advocating for better hours
Speaker 1: or you know whatever. But I got to because if
Speaker 1: I don't, then i' be stuck getting twenty three hours
Speaker 1: twenty five hours a week. How am I gonna live
Speaker 1: like that? I can't that, I mean, I just it's no,
Speaker 1: I can't do that. So I have to do what
Speaker 1: I have to do as a mom, you know, and
Speaker 1: as a grandmother. So if me advocating for myself is
Speaker 1: what it takes, that's that's what it takes. And I
Speaker 1: get my courage from them. They're my motivation, you know.
Speaker 1: That's what keeps me going day to day. That's what
Speaker 1: keeps me in Walmart. That's why I've been there so
Speaker 1: long because it's not easy trying to find another job.
Speaker 1: I've been putting in applications everywhere, and just recently I've
Speaker 1: been you know, getting called in for interviews, which is fine,
Speaker 1: but no one to say we're here, you know, we
Speaker 1: we We're gonna hire you until that day comes. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to stay at Walmart, and I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to keep, you know, advocating for myself and others. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like your son and I guess
Speaker 1: your grandchild, granddaughter, grandson Instagram soon and son. Do you
Speaker 1: ever feel like your son and your grandson that you're
Speaker 1: actually through what you're doing with our Walmart and advocating
Speaker 1: for yourself and other associates, that you're really setting up
Speaker 1: this idea of women as these strong, vocal advocates who
Speaker 1: fight for positive change? Yes? Yes, do you feel like
Speaker 1: a role model for them? I'm trying to be. It's
Speaker 1: not easy, but it's not easy. I'm trying to be.
Speaker 1: You're like, I mean, I mean, what what mother doesn't
Speaker 1: want their kids or grandkids to actually look up to them?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You have to lead by example,
Speaker 1: and that's what I try to do. I try to,
Speaker 1: you know, to teach my son that you can't let
Speaker 1: anything stand in your way. You have to go out
Speaker 1: there and you have to get it. There's no excuse,
Speaker 1: even though even though you may not always get what
Speaker 1: you want. You have to at least try so. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: How can our listeners who are listening to your story
Speaker 1: and are listening to what's happening with our Walmarts mod
Speaker 1: cloth campaign and with Walmart in general is treating associates
Speaker 1: and women, how can they join you? Because you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have to shoulder this burden all by yourself, right, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be alone in this effort, and it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be up to just Walmart associates to make this
Speaker 1: positive change in the globe's largest employer. What can we
Speaker 1: do to get involved? What can everyday people do to
Speaker 1: support workers rights of Walmart? Okay, well, the first thing
Speaker 1: you can do is can you can support this hashtag
Speaker 1: buy mor clock campaign? And I have three ways of
Speaker 1: how you can do that. First, you could plash to
Speaker 1: stop shopping at mar clos so they treat women with
Speaker 1: respect by visiting www that my clock is Walmart dot org. Two,
Speaker 1: you can say the message to my class on Instagram,
Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter and said, although why you're no longer
Speaker 1: shop at at mar clock, be sure to use the
Speaker 1: hashtag by my clod. And three, you can share hashtag
Speaker 1: by mom claws content from our Facebook face stand Up
Speaker 1: to Walmart. You can find it on Facebook by just
Speaker 1: typing it stand up to Walmart. So if anybody wants
Speaker 1: to jump in there with us and help us with
Speaker 1: this campaign, that would be great. Hell yeah, by my
Speaker 1: class by clost by it. I'm so honored that you
Speaker 1: took time today to share your story with us, Jennie.
Speaker 1: I feel like so often we talk about workers rights
Speaker 1: and away on this show that doesn't always break down
Speaker 1: the realities of what it actually looks like to be
Speaker 1: on the receiving end of short term shift work from
Speaker 1: a major corporate entity like Walmart. And so your story
Speaker 1: really just made it so real for us in terms
Speaker 1: of what it means to be faced with seriously tough
Speaker 1: choices and unto off of dealing with that injustice, taking
Speaker 1: on the added burden of changing how things are for everyone.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Jenny for being such an inspiration and
Speaker 1: an example of what it looks like to be a
Speaker 1: boss advocate for yourself, even when you're not gonna always
Speaker 1: get what you want. Like you said, like the courage
Speaker 1: that you've just described as so inspiring to me. And
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited that our listeners can weigh in,
Speaker 1: can support your campaign? Can hashtag by mud Cloth all
Speaker 1: day every day and especially on Cyber Monday and Black Friday? Yes? Yes, right, Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys having me, and I'm hoping that
Speaker 1: you know we have more people than a jump on
Speaker 1: board with this campaign and help us out because we
Speaker 1: need all the help we can get. You know, enough
Speaker 1: is enough and it's just sound for Walmart to take
Speaker 1: responsibility for what they're not doing. So hopefully this I
Speaker 1: hope a lot. Thank you, Thank you lady, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Janey. We really appreciate you being here with
Speaker 1: us and you know, all all the best with your
Speaker 1: campaign and continuing to advocate for change both at Walmart
Speaker 1: and to be that awesome role model for your kids.
Speaker 1: Love it? Okay, sminty listeners, what do you think of
Speaker 1: all this? What do you think of the Modcloth Walmart acquisition?
Speaker 1: Do you still shop at Modcloth? Did you never shop
Speaker 1: at Modcloth? Did you love Modcloth? And now you're feeling conflicted?
Speaker 1: How does Walmart show up in your life? We know
Speaker 1: they're the world's largest private retailer. Do you shop there,
Speaker 1: do you work there? Does someone in your life work there? How?
Speaker 1: Does it show up in your life? Join us on
Speaker 1: social media to continue this conversation. You know where to
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, hit us
Speaker 1: up on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, And
Speaker 1: as always, we love getting your emails, so send them
Speaker 1: our way at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.
Speaker 1: Don't