Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history Class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frying and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. I feel
Speaker 1: like I have to do a true confession on this one,
Speaker 1: which is that I was thinking, well, it would be
Speaker 1: a good valentine Ish thing since we're getting into that territory,
Speaker 1: and I ended up with a couple. But it's not
Speaker 1: very valentine E. You don't really have to do a
Speaker 1: truth confession. I am currently researching a specifically Valentine episode,
Speaker 1: so I understand. Yeah, yeah, but this one kind of
Speaker 1: fell apart. Uh. We're gonna talk about classical athletes a
Speaker 1: little bit, which was a male dominated world, but of
Speaker 1: course there were women there. Uh. And the woman that
Speaker 1: we're talking about today made waves because she wanted to
Speaker 1: be treated as an equal of men, and in many
Speaker 1: ways was. And additionally, she was in a long term
Speaker 1: relationship with one of the most prominent men of the day.
Speaker 1: Although the pair never married, their union was never formally recognized.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about why. And this is an instance because
Speaker 1: we're talking about events of the fifth century BC that
Speaker 1: there is a lot of variation and interpretation in the
Speaker 1: lives of Pericles, head of the Athenian city state, and
Speaker 1: his mistress Aspasia, and the way they're characterized. And as
Speaker 1: we go along, we're going to point out how various
Speaker 1: different accounts relay their story in slightly different ways. And
Speaker 1: this one, as I mentioned, I had this on my
Speaker 1: list for a while. I went, oh, that would be
Speaker 1: a good Valentine story, because it's often held up as
Speaker 1: one of history's great love stories. Plutarch, for example, wrote
Speaker 1: that Peracles kissed Aspasia every single day, once when he
Speaker 1: went out for the day and again when he returned,
Speaker 1: and that is very sweet and romantic. But their relationship
Speaker 1: is really more important because it was central to a
Speaker 1: key period in Greek history. And moreover, their entire story,
Speaker 1: we should point out, is largely known only through unverifiable writings.
Speaker 1: So we have to take things like the writings of Plutarch,
Speaker 1: which happened several hundred years after Paracles and Spasia lived
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a grain of salt, and
Speaker 1: we have to think critically about their story. So to
Speaker 1: get into that story, where we will start with Athens
Speaker 1: in the middle of the fifth century BC. Athens was
Speaker 1: coming off of fifty years of conflicts and the Greco
Speaker 1: Persian Wars, Greece had defeated the accaumanant Empire. We've talked
Speaker 1: about that empire on the show before h Greece had
Speaker 1: also driven the Persians back, and Athens evolved into a
Speaker 1: really prosperous city state. In the period between the Greco
Speaker 1: Persian Wars and the next major conflict, which was the
Speaker 1: Peloponnesian Wars beginning in four thirty one BC, was known
Speaker 1: as the Athenian Golden Age. Greek women for context in
Speaker 1: this time period in this location were generally married off
Speaker 1: when they were quite young, in their early teens, to
Speaker 1: men who were usually much older than they were, and
Speaker 1: at this point in Athens, women were generally excluded from
Speaker 1: a lot of public life. They were not participles in
Speaker 1: the popular sports or theater of the day, and they
Speaker 1: had really very few rights. Among the rights they did
Speaker 1: have for the fact that women could own property and
Speaker 1: their financial dealings were protected under Athenian law, but they
Speaker 1: had no involvement in politics, even though this is a
Speaker 1: time often held up as a great democracy, and even
Speaker 1: if a woman's finances were threatened illegally and she chose
Speaker 1: to pursue that matter in court, she still had to
Speaker 1: have a male guardian speak on her behalf during those proceedings.
Speaker 1: So that is just a little bit of the setup
Speaker 1: of the situation that we're walking into before we transition
Speaker 1: over to the life of Paracles. Paracles was born into privilege.
Speaker 1: His father, Xanthipis, was a war hero, his mother was
Speaker 1: from a really powerful family, and in his adulthood Paracles
Speaker 1: made a name for himself as a military leader, a politician,
Speaker 1: and a patron of the arts. He was elected to
Speaker 1: the military governmental leadership position of Strtigos through democratic vote
Speaker 1: in four forty three BC, and as one of athens leaders,
Speaker 1: Pericles made many contributions that would come to be part
Speaker 1: of the historical identity of the city. So, during the
Speaker 1: Greco Persian War that re referenced a moment ago, Athens
Speaker 1: had burned and a lot of it had been destroyed,
Speaker 1: and as part of ongoing remaking of the city, it
Speaker 1: was Pericles who initiated the construction of such iconic structures
Speaker 1: as the Temple too has seen a Nique, and the Parthenon.
Speaker 1: He also subsidized the arts, enabling the poor of Athens
Speaker 1: to attend theater, and he started paying citizens for civic service,
Speaker 1: such as serving on juries. Aspasia was born in the
Speaker 1: Ionian Greek settlement of Militius. Her father was Axiochus, and
Speaker 1: in a move that was pretty unusual for his time,
Speaker 1: he wanted his daughter to have an education. This has
Speaker 1: also been cited as evidence that the family was a
Speaker 1: wealthy one, because a poor family probably wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: able to prioritize giving an education to a daughter, and
Speaker 1: the source of that education then gets a little murkier.
Speaker 1: This is one of those things that gets embellished or
Speaker 1: fleshed out a little bit differently in different histories. So
Speaker 1: according to some accounts, Aspasia's mother and the enslaved people
Speaker 1: in their household were responsible for this education, so it
Speaker 1: was not a formal education in a school with a
Speaker 1: structured curriculum, but other versions do suggest a slightly more
Speaker 1: formal education process. But by all accounts, Aspasia got a
Speaker 1: very well rounded education, far more than the average Greek woman.
Speaker 1: The next important part of a Spasia story is that
Speaker 1: she traveled away from her home in Militus to Athens.
Speaker 1: If she had been traveling alone, as some of the
Speaker 1: writings indicate, this would have been a really unusual move.
Speaker 1: Even young men wouldn't normally have done such a thing.
Speaker 1: But it's also possible that she traveled with her newly
Speaker 1: married sister and brother in law. Her sister's husband was
Speaker 1: named Alcibiat's the Second, and this could be her connection
Speaker 1: to Pericles because he was known to that family and
Speaker 1: a Spasist time in Athens began sometime in the four
Speaker 1: forties BC, and it was in Athens that a Spasia
Speaker 1: would become famous, though not always in the most flattering ways.
Speaker 1: It wasn't long after she got to Athens that she
Speaker 1: met Peracles, as we mentioned a moment ago. This meeting
Speaker 1: might have been through her sister's husband or maybe at
Speaker 1: a symposium, and Pericles was married with a family uh
Speaker 1: that was an arranged marriage for sort of mutual social
Speaker 1: and political benefit. He left his wife and two sons
Speaker 1: around the same time as a Spasia came into his life,
Speaker 1: but the timeline is not entirely clear in terms of
Speaker 1: this being a cause and effect situation. Divorce was not
Speaker 1: uncommon in Greece at the time. It did not have
Speaker 1: the stigma that would later become attached to it in
Speaker 1: many cultures, and both men and women were known to
Speaker 1: marry more than once in their lifetime. Pericles and his
Speaker 1: wife had been wet, as I said, through a beneficial arrangement,
Speaker 1: but they didn't really have a particularly good relationship, so
Speaker 1: it really shouldn't be portrayed as a Spasi is showing
Speaker 1: up and becoming a home wrecker that tore apart a
Speaker 1: happy family. The family also already had its own problems.
Speaker 1: At least one of his sons was never very fond
Speaker 1: of Pericles, and although Pericles did divorce his wife, he
Speaker 1: didn't wind up marrying Aspasia, although the two of them
Speaker 1: did live together as a couple. And we'll get into
Speaker 1: y and a little bit. So of course, if this
Speaker 1: sort of thing happened today, like if a prominent politician
Speaker 1: moved in with his mistress, it would cause gossip, and
Speaker 1: that same thing was true in Athens at the time.
Speaker 1: Soon the couple was constantly talked about, but Aspasia was
Speaker 1: the recipient of far more venomous attacks than Pericles. One
Speaker 1: of the more common accusations was that Aspasia was a courtisan.
Speaker 1: This particular avenue of gossip took on a bunch of
Speaker 1: different lurid details. Some claimed that she was a high
Speaker 1: class courtisan, and these were known as hatira. Other angles
Speaker 1: on this rumor painted her as more of a basic
Speaker 1: sex worker, but others claimed that she served Pericles by
Speaker 1: bringing him young girls for his own pleasure. So for
Speaker 1: the time Aspasia and Pericles became involved with one another,
Speaker 1: these rumors were going around, and they persisted long after
Speaker 1: she died. And coming up, we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the possibility that Aspasia was a courtisan and the information
Speaker 1: that aligns there with that theory. But first we're going
Speaker 1: to pause and have a little sponsor break. It is
Speaker 1: possible that Aspasia was a hat era. Many aspects of
Speaker 1: her story that are held up as evidence of what
Speaker 1: an unusual woman she was for the time are actually
Speaker 1: pretty commonly in line with these refined courtisan's. Women in
Speaker 1: this line of work, when they're discussed by historians today,
Speaker 1: are most commonly likened to geisha. They were cultured and
Speaker 1: educated and sophisticated. Hato was engaged as a companion rather
Speaker 1: than just a sex worker, although sexual relations were also
Speaker 1: part of their work, but in a culture where men
Speaker 1: didn't usually marry until later in life and when wives
Speaker 1: were usually kept in a position where they were uneducated
Speaker 1: and restricted to home life most of the time. Hatira
Speaker 1: offered the opportunity to spend time with a woman who
Speaker 1: was knowledgeable and could discuss the issues of the day.
Speaker 1: As this was generally a job filled by women who
Speaker 1: were not Athenian. They also had to pay taxes, and
Speaker 1: they consequently lived outside of a lot of the restrictions
Speaker 1: that the wives of the Athens city state lived with.
Speaker 1: We should probably know that uh today's geisha are are
Speaker 1: not generally described as sex workers, even though that comparison
Speaker 1: is made with htira correct. There's also no conclusive evidence
Speaker 1: one way or another as to whether Aspasia was a
Speaker 1: hatira or not, or whether just people assumed that she
Speaker 1: was because her behavior seemed to fall in line with
Speaker 1: this line of work, and while this is a completely
Speaker 1: legal and common vocation in Athens at the time, it
Speaker 1: was still a way to demean her and in turn,
Speaker 1: to demean Pericles. But perhaps even more are jarring to
Speaker 1: the people of Athens than the idea that Pericles would
Speaker 1: fall in love and live with a woman from Melitus
Speaker 1: who may or may not have been a Cortisan and
Speaker 1: perhaps leaving his family to do so, was that he
Speaker 1: treated Aspasia as an equal. He consulted with her on
Speaker 1: matters of state, and she mingled with the men of
Speaker 1: power in Athens at the urging of her beloved. Eventually,
Speaker 1: the playwright hermy Pus accused Aspasia of impiety. She was
Speaker 1: initially suspected of questioning the existence of the gods, but
Speaker 1: in the end her trial seemed to boil down to
Speaker 1: the idea that Aspasia was turning the women of Athens
Speaker 1: to licentious ways. The implication was that it was to
Speaker 1: please Pericles. She was eventually cleared of these charges, but
Speaker 1: only after Peracles himself appeared in court and made an
Speaker 1: impassioned plea on her behalf. Yeah, this is tied to
Speaker 1: that whole thing that she was bringing him young girls
Speaker 1: for his sexual pleasure. That kind of ties into this
Speaker 1: whole impiety charge. It's also really important to contextualize some
Speaker 1: of the intent of these attacks on Aspasia, because really
Speaker 1: it had more to do with her being a friend
Speaker 1: and lover to Perracles than anything related to her actual
Speaker 1: life or profession. To have power and democratic Athens was
Speaker 1: not all that different from the American democracy in the
Speaker 1: last two hundred years, So friends and allies were always
Speaker 1: targets as much as a person in power. For example,
Speaker 1: in addition to Aspasia, his close friend Fadius was also
Speaker 1: the subject of criticism and derision. And in the case
Speaker 1: of Fadius, who was overseer of many of the construction
Speaker 1: works that we talked about Paracles initiating, he was accused
Speaker 1: of embezzlement. It was actually a law that Paracles himself
Speaker 1: sponsored that kept him from ever marrying Aspasia. And four
Speaker 1: fifty one b c. A law known as the citizenship
Speaker 1: law barred any son born to a non Athenian mother
Speaker 1: from having citizenship in Athens. Before this law existed, a
Speaker 1: child who was born to a man of Athens and
Speaker 1: a woman from somewhere else could still be considered an
Speaker 1: Athenian citizen. There are a couple of reasons that such
Speaker 1: a law might have been enacted. One idea was that
Speaker 1: the men of Athens would no longer marry wealthy foreigners
Speaker 1: to form alliances and gain power. And the other is
Speaker 1: at a time when Athens was experiencing a high level
Speaker 1: of prosperity. Remember this is considered the Athenian Golden Age.
Speaker 1: It would limit citizenship numbers to curtail losing that prosperity. So,
Speaker 1: for example, not long after this law was enacted, the
Speaker 1: King of Egypt gifted Athens with a load of grain
Speaker 1: with the intent that it would be distributed equally among
Speaker 1: Athenian citizens, and there were soon lawsuits challenging the validity
Speaker 1: of various citizens status is as people were eager to
Speaker 1: keep as much of that grain as possible for themselves.
Speaker 1: So had Parically married Aspasia, any male child they had
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been considered Athenian. This would have been politically disastrous.
Speaker 1: It would have suggested that the very law that Pericles
Speaker 1: sponsored was basically meaningless to him personally, and so marriage
Speaker 1: was never on the table for him and Aspasia. But
Speaker 1: there was also the benefit of Pericles having already fathered
Speaker 1: two sons with his wife before he met Aspasia. Those
Speaker 1: two sons existing took some of the pressure off of
Speaker 1: the situation. So if his firstborn son had been the
Speaker 1: child of this foreign woman, there would have been a
Speaker 1: lot more controversy. But Aspasia and Pericles did have a
Speaker 1: child together, a son who was also named Pericles, and
Speaker 1: a moment we'll get into the place of prominence this
Speaker 1: couple held in Athenian culture. At the time. First, we
Speaker 1: will take one more quick break and hear from one
Speaker 1: of our sponsors. While Pericles and Aspasia were together, their
Speaker 1: home became sort of a social and intellectual nexus in
Speaker 1: the city. Artists, philosophers, and military generals were all entertained
Speaker 1: there regularly, and Aspasia was known as incre doably smart
Speaker 1: and skilled at debate. She is, in fact, sometimes credited
Speaker 1: with inventing the use of inductive reasoning into debate rhetoric,
Speaker 1: and Plato even wrote of Aspasia teaching Socrates rhetoric. So Plato,
Speaker 1: the famed student of Socrates, referenced this teaching in his
Speaker 1: work Manexenus, which we are guessing is the way to
Speaker 1: say that this writing is a Socratic dialogue in which
Speaker 1: Socrates and Manxinus discuss a funeral speech that Pericles had given.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk more about that speech in a moment.
Speaker 1: So this dialogue plays out this way. Socrates says that
Speaker 1: I should be able to speak is no great wonder, Manxenus,
Speaker 1: considering that I have an excellent mistress in the art
Speaker 1: of rhetoric, she who has made so many good speakers,
Speaker 1: and one who was the best among all the Hellenes. Pericles,
Speaker 1: the son of Xanthippus and the Manxinus response, and who
Speaker 1: is she? I suppose that you mean Aspasia. There are, however,
Speaker 1: two notes to make about this particular piece of writing.
Speaker 1: One is that there's some debate about its authenticity too.
Speaker 1: Even if it is authentic, it's also possible that this
Speaker 1: is a bit of sexist mockery at the very idea
Speaker 1: that a woman could teach a man to be an
Speaker 1: eloquent speaker, and that these lines are written to be sarcastic.
Speaker 1: So this is again part of that bigger problem. In
Speaker 1: unraveling the lives of Pericles and Aspasia as a couple,
Speaker 1: we mentioned that a lot of the writing is murky,
Speaker 1: but also what we know about them are A lot
Speaker 1: of what we know about them was written by playwrights
Speaker 1: and poets who are largely composing comedies, often as critiques,
Speaker 1: So everything in the in the record kind of has
Speaker 1: to be backwards engineered and guessed at and put through
Speaker 1: this filter of are they making a joke at their
Speaker 1: expense or not? But the fact that they, and specifically
Speaker 1: Aspasia were the focus of so much writing is a
Speaker 1: pretty clear indicator of the importance and prominence of both
Speaker 1: her as a woman and their relationship. Athens and Sparta,
Speaker 1: once united against the Persians, eventually went to war with
Speaker 1: one another, and this conflict between Greek city states was
Speaker 1: attributed at least in part to Aspasia. But this blame
Speaker 1: was not based on just one theory, as with all
Speaker 1: the gossips surrounding whether Aspasia was a courtis in her
Speaker 1: guilt among the gossipers was from a variety of different things.
Speaker 1: One theory was that the war was really caused by
Speaker 1: Spartan's kidnapping young women from a brothel that Aspasia was running,
Speaker 1: and this theory is actually discussed in the play The
Speaker 1: Accardians that was written by Aristophanes. In Pericles granted assistance
Speaker 1: to Militus when it was at war with Samos, and
Speaker 1: four forty one b c. Sparta had supported the Samos
Speaker 1: and took this assistance to its enemy as an affront.
Speaker 1: It's possible that Aspasia had influenced the move, asking Pericles
Speaker 1: to interceed on her homeland's behalf, and that that had
Speaker 1: provided a spark to the future conflict. And Plutarch wrote
Speaker 1: of this episode quote and as these measures against the
Speaker 1: Samians are thought to have been taken to please Aspasia.
Speaker 1: This may be a fit point for inquiry about the woman,
Speaker 1: what art or charming faculty she had that enabled her
Speaker 1: to captivate as she did the greatest statesman and to
Speaker 1: give the philosopher's occasion to speak so much about her,
Speaker 1: and that too, not to her disparagement. Shortly after the
Speaker 1: Peloponnesian War began, Athens experienced a plague, and because it
Speaker 1: was a densely populated city, illness spread really quickly. This
Speaker 1: is big enough deal that it was known as the
Speaker 1: Great Plague of Athens. Nearly a quarter of the population
Speaker 1: died in this outbreak, and Pericles was blamed for the plague.
Speaker 1: It was believed by the enraged and dismayed an understandably
Speaker 1: terrified people that overcrowding was the cause of this pestilence.
Speaker 1: Athens was at this point so crowded because, in anticipating
Speaker 1: a move on the Spartan's part to attack Attica, Pericles
Speaker 1: had moved all the residents of the more rural spaces
Speaker 1: into the city. And incidentally, Pericles was correct in this prediction,
Speaker 1: but that also meant that while he felt like he
Speaker 1: was protecting those people from the attack, their undefended homes
Speaker 1: and Atticus were completely sacked by the Spartans, and all
Speaker 1: property was destroyed, and this further incense the citizens of Athens.
Speaker 1: During this time, Pericles gave his most famous speech, and
Speaker 1: this was a funeral oration delivered after one of the
Speaker 1: battles in this war. So there's a possibility that this
Speaker 1: speech was actually written by a Spasia. These are the
Speaker 1: final two paragraphs before Peracles disperses the mourners, turning to
Speaker 1: the sons or brothers of the dead, I see an
Speaker 1: arduous struggle before you. When a man is gone, all
Speaker 1: are wont to praise him. And should your merit be
Speaker 1: ever so transcendent, you will still find it difficult, not
Speaker 1: merely to overtake, but even to approach their renown. The
Speaker 1: living have envy to contend with, while those who are
Speaker 1: no longer in our path honored with a goodwill into
Speaker 1: which rivalry does not enter. On the other hand, if
Speaker 1: I must say anything on the subject of female excellence
Speaker 1: to those of you who will now be in widowhood,
Speaker 1: it will be all comprised in this brief exhortation. Great
Speaker 1: will be your glory in not falling short of your
Speaker 1: natural character, and greatest will be hers who has least
Speaker 1: talked of among the men, whether for good or for bad.
Speaker 1: My task is now finished. I have performed it to
Speaker 1: the best of my ability, and in word at least
Speaker 1: the requirements of the law are now satisfied. If deeds
Speaker 1: be in question, those who are here interred have received
Speaker 1: their part of their honors already, and for the rest
Speaker 1: their children will be brought up till manhood at the
Speaker 1: public expense. The state thus offers a valuable prize as
Speaker 1: the garland of victory in this race of valor for
Speaker 1: the reward both of those who have fallen and their survivors.
Speaker 1: And where the rewards for merit are greatest, there are
Speaker 1: found the best citizens. So the speech did temporarily put
Speaker 1: off public anger, but sentiment against Pericles swelled once again.
Speaker 1: He was removed from office and fined, but eventually he
Speaker 1: was reinstated. In four b c he was reelected as Strategos,
Speaker 1: but that year would again turn tragic. Pericles himself was
Speaker 1: not immune to the illness that had devastated the rest
Speaker 1: of Athens. He became ill, and the illness dragged on
Speaker 1: for months. There was also this secondary problem of a
Speaker 1: dire matter of legacy that was taking a toll on
Speaker 1: Pericles as he reckoned with his own end. His two
Speaker 1: legitimate sons had also died in the plague, and he
Speaker 1: was desperate to preserve his legacy, so much so that
Speaker 1: he petitioned to have his son with Aspasia named as
Speaker 1: his heir. Remember that son was not an Athenian citizen,
Speaker 1: and that was a request which initially was neither honored
Speaker 1: nor welcomed. When Peracles finally succumbed to his illness and
Speaker 1: died in four to any nine b c. The future
Speaker 1: of Athens and Aspasias place in it was fraught with uncertainty.
Speaker 1: The people of Athens made a somewhat surprising move at
Speaker 1: this point, though, due to the bleak situation before them,
Speaker 1: with no leadership and a plague still running rampant, they
Speaker 1: finally voted that the child of Pericles and Aspasia should
Speaker 1: be recognized as an Athenian citizen. Uh This is another
Speaker 1: one of those points that has relayed a little bit
Speaker 1: differently in terms of timeline, depending on the account you're reading.
Speaker 1: Some writings actually say that the citizenship was conferred on
Speaker 1: Pericles the younger before his father died, whereas the version
Speaker 1: that we just related say that it happened after the wards.
Speaker 1: As the city state continued to try to regain its footing,
Speaker 1: Aspasia moved on to another romantic interest. This was a
Speaker 1: man named Lescles. This is also recounted in the writings
Speaker 1: of Plutarch, and they referenced the writings of Ascones quote.
Speaker 1: Ascones tells us also that Lecocles a sheep dealer, a
Speaker 1: man of low birth and character. Her by keeping Aspasia
Speaker 1: company after Pericles's death, came to be a chief man
Speaker 1: in Athens. So once again that's another indicator that even
Speaker 1: though Aspasia may have been the brunt of many jokes
Speaker 1: and the target of a lot of attacks, she clearly
Speaker 1: had some power because she was able to help this
Speaker 1: man rise into power of his own. Pericles the Younger,
Speaker 1: the son of Aspasia and Pericles, was elected general in
Speaker 1: four or six b C. He died at a young
Speaker 1: age in the Peloponnesian War. The end of Aspasi's life
Speaker 1: is pretty unclear. Bisycles died in b C. And Aspasia
Speaker 1: more or less vanishes from the historical record at that point,
Speaker 1: so we really don't know if she was still alive
Speaker 1: to mourn her son when he died. Yeah, she sometimes
Speaker 1: cited as having died in four hundred or four d
Speaker 1: one BC, and that is usually linked to writings about
Speaker 1: the death of Socrates, which we know she was already
Speaker 1: gone by uh, and that's how they use that as
Speaker 1: a marker. But we really have no idea when she
Speaker 1: passed away. But it is sort of a it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things, like I said, people always
Speaker 1: hold her up as this amazing exception to all of
Speaker 1: the rules of Athens, and in many ways she was.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there are aspects of her
Speaker 1: story that actually fall in line with with those um
Speaker 1: you know, sort of cultured cortisans that were part of
Speaker 1: Athenian culture as well. So it you know, and there's
Speaker 1: so much guesswork in their story because we just don't
Speaker 1: know a lot of details, Like we don't know what
Speaker 1: she was like as a person, if she was funny,
Speaker 1: or if she was you know, dower, or if we
Speaker 1: have no idea about any of this. Good at debate
Speaker 1: is what we know and very beautiful by all accounts.
Speaker 1: So it's there are many mysteries. Yeah, the staffs and
Speaker 1: listener mail I do this is actually a postcard that came. Um,
Speaker 1: we got it at the beginning of this year, but
Speaker 1: it was sent to us at the end of last
Speaker 1: year by our listener. Aila says, Hi, I'm Lila, I'm eleven,
Speaker 1: and I love your podcast. My mom and I love
Speaker 1: to listen to it in the car. Right now, we're
Speaker 1: in Oslo, Norway to perform with La Petite Cirque at
Speaker 1: the Nobel Peace Prize Concert. We got to visit the
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Center and learn all about its history. Uh.
Speaker 1: This uh postcard that she sent is a photograph of
Speaker 1: mother Teresa, and she would like to request an episode
Speaker 1: about her. Um. We'll see if that makes it in
Speaker 1: the rotation. But I just love that she took the
Speaker 1: time while they were traveling to send us this lovely postcard.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Lila, and thank you for listening. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can
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