Speaker 1: Hey, this is prettyet and this is and you're listening
Speaker 1: to stuff mom never told you. Now today we're pretty
Speaker 1: excited to talk through something some of y'all might be
Speaker 1: familiar with, and that is the landscape that is mom bloggers.
Speaker 1: So you'll notice that I didn't actually say quote mommy
Speaker 1: bloggers because I don't actually think that term encapsulates what
Speaker 1: moms and women are actually doing on the internet. This
Speaker 1: is the most on point mom stuff episode ever, I think,
Speaker 1: quite frankly so, for everyone has ever looked at the
Speaker 1: title of our podcast and said, am I going to
Speaker 1: hear about mom stuff today? The answer is yes. But
Speaker 1: whether you call it mom blogging or mommy blogging is
Speaker 1: something we're going to leave up to you. Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1: I have made the choice to call it mom blogging
Speaker 1: only because I feel like mommy blogging is a way
Speaker 1: of encapsulating the kind of writing that is taking place
Speaker 1: when a mother writes online. I feel like it's a
Speaker 1: way to say, oh, she just writes about raising her kid,
Speaker 1: when in reality, a lot of these women are writing
Speaker 1: about divorce, depression, self doubt, postpartum depression, all these really important,
Speaker 1: heavy topics, and they just sort of get framed as
Speaker 1: moms on the internet talking about mom stuff or like
Speaker 1: mommy stuff. I guess there's something a little extra patronizing
Speaker 1: about mommy. It's a little infantilizing, yes, because if you're
Speaker 1: a woman who writes about what it's like to raise
Speaker 1: an interracial child in America, that's not just mommy blogging,
Speaker 1: or not just blogging about apple sauce and diapers. That's
Speaker 1: heavy stuff. And then again, there are some mommy bloggers
Speaker 1: who probably call themselves mommy bloggers and say, why shouldn't
Speaker 1: I write about apple sauce and diapers. Absolutely so no,
Speaker 1: say to either of them, We're screwed, basically, And we
Speaker 1: know that we're going to be as non mothers ourselves.
Speaker 1: We know that we are going to put our foots
Speaker 1: in our mouths at some point during today's podcast. And
Speaker 1: this is your disclaimer to please go east see on us.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for adding that. So first, let's
Speaker 1: take a look at the mom blogging landscape. Moms actually
Speaker 1: account for a huge chunk of writing on the Internet.
Speaker 1: According to Women's Marketing, there are four point three million
Speaker 1: mom bloggers out there, and five hundred of them are
Speaker 1: considered to be extremely influential amongst other mothers, which is
Speaker 1: a very coveted advertising market, isn't it absolutely? Something I
Speaker 1: found really cool about looking at the mom blogging landscape
Speaker 1: is how many of these writers were able to spin
Speaker 1: their mom blog into really luquidive projects for themselves. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about influential bloggers like Jenny Lawson of The blogg Is,
Speaker 1: who's written several books and as a columnist, Rebecca Wolf
Speaker 1: of Girls Gone Child, who has a nursery Dacre web
Speaker 1: series with HDTV, and Rage Rummond a k a. The
Speaker 1: Pioneer Woman, who I have to admit is kind of
Speaker 1: one of my favorites hens. Her recipes are are easy
Speaker 1: and unhealthy. Her recipes are delicious because it's all made
Speaker 1: with like butter, and she's like, just throw a little
Speaker 1: couple more sticks a butt her in here. She has
Speaker 1: this like really delicate way of being, like, just load
Speaker 1: up the fats in your food and it's delightful. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, Ray, you are so on point by
Speaker 1: a dear woman, I will do that. Yeah. No, shade
Speaker 1: to her. I she's like my problematic faith. I probably
Speaker 1: make her recipes every night, So shout out to her
Speaker 1: and really I think it's interesting how these women have
Speaker 1: taken something that for so long has been looked at
Speaker 1: as not important or frivolous or without literary merit, and
Speaker 1: sput it into actual media empires, shows on TV, book deals,
Speaker 1: web series and all of that good stuff. I think
Speaker 1: it's impressive in today's writing economy for any blogger who
Speaker 1: can turn their blog into a lucrative business. And I
Speaker 1: love seeing these women who happen to be moms crushing
Speaker 1: it definitely. So it's interesting that you say that because
Speaker 1: one big aspect of the mom blog landscape is marketing
Speaker 1: and brands and other ways of making money. So you
Speaker 1: know how moms often go to other moms for trusted
Speaker 1: advice when they're having a tough time with motherhood. That's
Speaker 1: one reason why the mom blogging space is so right
Speaker 1: for marketing and moneymaking. There's a real connection between mom
Speaker 1: blogging and brands totally. According to e Marketer, parenting and
Speaker 1: pregnancy websites are the top source moms and expectant moms
Speaker 1: used to learn about products and services of daily active
Speaker 1: social media moms say they made their purchase because of
Speaker 1: a recommendation from a personal review blog and mom bloggers
Speaker 1: are more likely than the general blocking population to be
Speaker 1: approached by a brand. Wow, I gotta get into mommy blogging.
Speaker 1: Have a kid first, lady, right, I mean, you don't
Speaker 1: want to take my stage advice on how to have
Speaker 1: a baby and be a boss mom. You could do
Speaker 1: dog mom blogging. You could start that. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's I don't think anyone's doing that. If someone is
Speaker 1: doing that, doggy mommy blogging coming to a web series
Speaker 1: near you soon, I love that. Let me just get
Speaker 1: back to the point here, which is bloggers have transitioned
Speaker 1: in terms of their marketing strategies and business models around
Speaker 1: blogging over the years. In the early days of blogging,
Speaker 1: a lot of writers made money through banner ads. You
Speaker 1: remember those. Yeah, those were those rectangular ads the top
Speaker 1: of copy that you would you're supposed to click on
Speaker 1: and it takes you away from the thing that you're reading.
Speaker 1: And remember and they're still out there quite a bit
Speaker 1: of them. I mean, Google display ads are a big
Speaker 1: part of that um and in the good old days
Speaker 1: those ads were very successful. The first banner ad was
Speaker 1: for eighteen ten and it ran on a site called
Speaker 1: hot wired. In of the people who sought, seventy eight
Speaker 1: percent clicked on it, according to Susan vital, a senior
Speaker 1: analyst at forrest Or Research. And is that true today,
Speaker 1: bridget It is not true today. As you, me and
Speaker 1: other folks that read content on the web get more savvy,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not clicking on those banner ads. We
Speaker 1: know to stay away from them, we know not to
Speaker 1: click them, and so now they don't really get as
Speaker 1: much attraction. Now what you see is the rise of
Speaker 1: native ads or sponsored content, sometimes affectionately known as spawn on.
Speaker 1: You can think of that as Instagram photos that have
Speaker 1: a picture of a cute kid eating a specific kind
Speaker 1: of yogurt, or someone goes on a trip and uses
Speaker 1: a specific kind of hotel and they pick beautiful pictures
Speaker 1: of the hotel for their Instagram and shout at the
Speaker 1: hotel chain in the copy. And BuzzFeed is pioneered sponsored
Speaker 1: content in a lot of ways. A lot of their
Speaker 1: posts are sponsored by advertiser, but the content of the
Speaker 1: post itself is not necessarily about the product or service.
Speaker 1: It's sort of they make a connection based on what
Speaker 1: the campaign is that they're writing. It's very complicated in
Speaker 1: terms of ethics around it, which we're gonna get into. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it used to be when it was a banner AD,
Speaker 1: it was clear editorially and visually that you were clicking
Speaker 1: on an AD. Now it's much more difficult to tell
Speaker 1: sponsored content from editorial content. A good example would be
Speaker 1: a BuzzFeed quiz where it's build a subway sandwich and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about your personality and it may be
Speaker 1: fun to click through, but actually you're you're engaging with
Speaker 1: an AD. That can be a little tricky to tell
Speaker 1: it it is. Usually it will say sponsored content in
Speaker 1: some form I think legally have to tell you. I
Speaker 1: was going to say it should beyond that. It can
Speaker 1: be like I found myself clicking through a quiz or
Speaker 1: reading an article and later come to find out like, oh,
Speaker 1: this was an AD. I was just engaging with an
Speaker 1: adver twenty minutes. That's like a dream come true for
Speaker 1: advertisers to hear. And you know, the question is is
Speaker 1: that a bad thing? Did you enjoy the quiz? Like,
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily evil? I don't. I don't think so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think so. And I think that's where
Speaker 1: this issue gets so complicated, because, on the one hand,
Speaker 1: I think it's great if women who are moms want
Speaker 1: to make extra money by you know, putting out sponsored content,
Speaker 1: good for them. They should be they should be making
Speaker 1: extra money. But a lot of critics out there say
Speaker 1: that this pushed towards monetization, and this pushed toward social
Speaker 1: media platforms like Instagram and away from gritty, first person
Speaker 1: actual editorial content. Is making the mom blog landscape a
Speaker 1: lot more sanitized. Where it used to be a place
Speaker 1: to find really authentic writing about the realities of motherhood. Now,
Speaker 1: what's this beautiful, polished airbrush place that makes motherhood look
Speaker 1: one kind of boring but also kind of easy. Well,
Speaker 1: it's the rise of all the problems with lifestyle bloggers
Speaker 1: in general too. I think back to our episode on
Speaker 1: Pinterest Perfect Life, and I would venture to guess that
Speaker 1: people aren't reading mommy blogs to see how perfect your
Speaker 1: life looks like, right, They are looking for connection and
Speaker 1: relatability and solutions to challenges. And there are critics who
Speaker 1: would say that the rise of sponsored content has made
Speaker 1: the world of mom blogging less authentic. It used to be,
Speaker 1: you know, chronicling women dealing with all kinds of challenging
Speaker 1: issues like postpartum depression and divorce. And now, like you said, Bridget,
Speaker 1: it looks like a beautiful, distilled version of your pastel,
Speaker 1: perfect Pinterest perfection mom life, which is not possible. It
Speaker 1: just it sets this expectation for moms who are not
Speaker 1: living that kind of a curated life to feel bad
Speaker 1: about themselves. And I think if there's one group of
Speaker 1: people who don't need more incentive to feel like they're
Speaker 1: doing a crappy job or to compare themselves to others,
Speaker 1: it's new moms. I mean being a mom. As I understand,
Speaker 1: it is a pretty hard thing to do. It has
Speaker 1: ups and downs. My friends who have just had kids
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I got no sleep because my kid
Speaker 1: was up all night vomiting and I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do. Or I feel like a crappy mom because
Speaker 1: I did X y Z. If there's one group of
Speaker 1: people who should not be feeling like they need to
Speaker 1: compare themselves to someone who seemingly is crushing it all
Speaker 1: the time, it's moms. Yeah, let's give moms a break
Speaker 1: instead of raising the bar. Absolutely. There's this great article
Speaker 1: in the Washington Post called how the mom Internet became
Speaker 1: a spotless sponsored void by Sarah Pulliam Bailey, and she
Speaker 1: argues that the early days of mom blog and used
Speaker 1: to show the unflinching, gritty realities of motherhood, and now
Speaker 1: it's given way to this perfectly manicured vision of what
Speaker 1: motherhood looks like. She writes, this is the mommy Internet now.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful, it's aspirational. It's also miles from what motherhood
Speaker 1: looks like for many of us, and miles and what
Speaker 1: the mommy Internet looks like a decade ago. She describes
Speaker 1: as prolific mom blogger Heather Armstrong, who had the Douce
Speaker 1: dot com in two thousand one, and basically how the
Speaker 1: push to make the mom landscape look perfect and airbrushed
Speaker 1: and manicured and curated basically drove her from blogging. She writes,
Speaker 1: when Heather Armstrong launched Doce dot com in two thousand one,
Speaker 1: the emerging mom Internet was dominated by blogs, and those
Speaker 1: blogs were raw and authentic. Some writers focused on parenting,
Speaker 1: but many used a wider lens to chronicle the ups
Speaker 1: and downs of their lives. Armstrong what about her depression,
Speaker 1: her time in a psychiatric hospital, her divorce, her experience
Speaker 1: is growing up in the Mormon church, and she goes
Speaker 1: on to say that what we've lost in the quest
Speaker 1: for sponsorship is quote a source of support and community,
Speaker 1: a place to share vulnerability and find like minded women,
Speaker 1: and a forum for female expertise and wisdom. It's just
Speaker 1: so sad, says Armstrong. It's all these staged, curated photos
Speaker 1: that don't show the messier parts of life. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: Washington Post goes on to say, the biggest stars of
Speaker 1: the mommy Internet now are no longer confessional blockers. They're
Speaker 1: curators of life, their influencers, their pitch women. And so
Speaker 1: you really have these competing forces where on the one hand,
Speaker 1: it's women who want to chronicle the grittier realities of
Speaker 1: what that life looks like and other women who are
Speaker 1: really more in the space to sort of show that
Speaker 1: curated life. I want to talk more about Heather Armstrong
Speaker 1: and how this impacted her work with blogging after this
Speaker 1: quick break and we're back. We were just talking about
Speaker 1: Heather Armstrong at the Douce dot com and how her
Speaker 1: story really is a great example of how the rise
Speaker 1: of sponsored content has changed the mom blocking landscape. So
Speaker 1: Armstrong with you were saying, before was really known for
Speaker 1: these candid, confessional, kind of gritty looks into her life
Speaker 1: as a mom. By she had a hundred thousand daily
Speaker 1: visitors in The New York Times called her the Queen
Speaker 1: of mommy bloggers, and so back in the day when
Speaker 1: views and readers really paid the bills through display ads,
Speaker 1: it sounds like that was working for her. But now
Speaker 1: that the rise of sponsored content has more to do
Speaker 1: with Instagram and visuals, and we know that people like
Speaker 1: Instagram visuals that are aspirational by nature, it feels like
Speaker 1: the message that she wants to put out there is
Speaker 1: no longer working with a new medium that makes money exactly.
Speaker 1: One quick technical point about that is, like most of us,
Speaker 1: we aren't really using our browsers and our computers as
Speaker 1: much to get content. You're usually scrolling through your phone.
Speaker 1: And because of that, less bloggers are having their own
Speaker 1: standalone website, you know, mom and Virginia dot blogspot dot com.
Speaker 1: You're more likely to have Instagram or Facebook be the destination.
Speaker 1: And so because of that trend, and that's not just
Speaker 1: a mommy blog trend, that's an Internet trend writ large. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so for me, I guess I feel a little defensive.
Speaker 1: I think probably because I'm in the space, because I'm
Speaker 1: a writer, because I'm a blogger, because I have my
Speaker 1: own brand. Not that we've been sponsored yet, but I'm
Speaker 1: not at all not interested in the conversation. I feel
Speaker 1: like vulnerability is welcome on the Internet still, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, if she wants to blog about depression,
Speaker 1: if she wants to write about her gritty, real world's
Speaker 1: battles of motherhood, I think there's an audience for that.
Speaker 1: I think the Internet would love to see some authenticity
Speaker 1: on Instagram. And it requires being courageous. And you know
Speaker 1: what it might mean that Tide isn't going to sponsor
Speaker 1: your depression post. And that's just the that's the consequence,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, I get what she's saying,
Speaker 1: which is that the financial incentives make it less viable
Speaker 1: for writers who want to write about the real stuff,
Speaker 1: and make it much more incentivized to write about the
Speaker 1: sanitized version of motherhood. But nobody's stopping you from putting
Speaker 1: your message out there on the Internet. That's supposed to
Speaker 1: be the beauty of the small d democratization of our media.
Speaker 1: Just don't expect to get paid for it by sponsored advertisers.
Speaker 1: I think you're onto something for sure. But I guess
Speaker 1: her point would be women don't need another play on
Speaker 1: the internet telling them to buy tide pods. Women don't
Speaker 1: them or eat them. Moms don't need another place on
Speaker 1: the internet telling them what kind of yogurt to buy.
Speaker 1: They need real camaraderie. And I think that's what she's saying.
Speaker 1: She's saying that this push toward Instagram and sponsored content
Speaker 1: is leaving a lot of moms who relied on this
Speaker 1: sense of community and relied on sort of getting that
Speaker 1: having a place to make a talk authentically about that,
Speaker 1: because that's no longer a popular thing with the rise
Speaker 1: of sponsored content, that these women are losing out. I
Speaker 1: hear you, and I call bullsh on that whole argument, because,
Speaker 1: first of all, what has made my business successful is
Speaker 1: the community we've felt online. And it took a long time,
Speaker 1: it took a lot of work, and nobody you've sponsored it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, if you want to
Speaker 1: create community, create community online and it'll work long term,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But you know what, you
Speaker 1: can't expect to get paid to build a community. You
Speaker 1: have to build a community first and then find a
Speaker 1: way to get paid for it. And quite frankly, I
Speaker 1: think Instagram influencers who are doing it right in a
Speaker 1: sustainable way our building community and they're limiting how much
Speaker 1: they sponsored the content that they're putting out towards that
Speaker 1: community so that they're not harming the actual value that
Speaker 1: people are getting from their content in the long run,
Speaker 1: because that's the risk you run. You run over doing
Speaker 1: it and harming it. There's a twenty eight rule out
Speaker 1: there on the Internet about sort of influencers. All of
Speaker 1: us have to produce eight free stuff, free value that
Speaker 1: we're giving to our community in order to justify a
Speaker 1: ratio of selling them stuff. And I think that's part
Speaker 1: of the golden rule of the Internet. You expect to
Speaker 1: get free podcasts in your earbuds, you expect to get
Speaker 1: you know, free Instagram inspo recipes every day. You expect
Speaker 1: to be sold to on occasion. You expect to get
Speaker 1: an advertiser interrupt your programming on occasion. And that's the
Speaker 1: deal we're all making with our with ourselves. And it's
Speaker 1: not easy as a creator, So I get what she's saying.
Speaker 1: I just think you've how to adapt your message for
Speaker 1: the medium as it changes. Yeah, I get what you're saying,
Speaker 1: but my I guess I'm not trying to come down
Speaker 1: and here too hard. But I do feel sensitive about
Speaker 1: this because I'm in the mix, right. I get what
Speaker 1: you're saying that maybe you shouldn't expect you could write
Speaker 1: a gritty post and get paid for it and have
Speaker 1: that be the situation. But I also think it's fair
Speaker 1: to ask what are we losing out on in this
Speaker 1: new situation. You know, before pretty much anybody who wanted
Speaker 1: to put a message out there, you could use these bloggers,
Speaker 1: could use banner ads, and you could write a you know,
Speaker 1: long hom piece about your postpartum depression and make a
Speaker 1: little bit of money. That's no longer possible in the
Speaker 1: new blocking landscape. And so I guess the question is
Speaker 1: where does that leave women? But where does that leave us?
Speaker 1: Where does that leave us? And I think what you're
Speaker 1: saying is fair that you know you shouldn't expect to
Speaker 1: get paid for If no one's tied isn't gonna pay
Speaker 1: for your depression post, that's, you know, suck it up
Speaker 1: and deal with it. But I just think that there's
Speaker 1: a there should be a place online where that kind
Speaker 1: of content can do well. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: the landscape that only privileges, you know, moms who are
Speaker 1: killing it is doing anybody any favors. I agree, and
Speaker 1: I would challenge brands to say, maybe you don't have
Speaker 1: to align yourself with perfection. Maybe you can align yourself
Speaker 1: with authenticity. Maybe there's a brand out there that will say,
Speaker 1: you know what, life is hard, and our consumers get that,
Speaker 1: and you want to sell to them in ways that
Speaker 1: show that we understand that too. Bridges the capitalists coming
Speaker 1: out right now. I'm just saying, there's gotta be a
Speaker 1: workable way to make this work for everybody, and it's
Speaker 1: clearly not working now. Yeah, well, there's a financial argument,
Speaker 1: I think to embracing vulnerability. Here's what I would say.
Speaker 1: You know, back in the day when the printing press
Speaker 1: was the only means for mass uh production of compositions,
Speaker 1: that's certainly limited people too, you know, and that limited
Speaker 1: the messages that we heard. And once the printing press
Speaker 1: was revolutionized to daily papers, that let more voices come
Speaker 1: into play, that let more creators write for money, and
Speaker 1: then after people stopped buying newspapers, things changed again. This
Speaker 1: is a never ending conversation about how the medium shapes
Speaker 1: the message, not to get to you know, psych one
Speaker 1: oh one or media politics one oh one on us.
Speaker 1: But I just think that it's kind of cute to
Speaker 1: be shaking your fist at a cloud saying back in
Speaker 1: the good old days of two thousand and nine, the
Speaker 1: Internet was structured properly to reward the right people. And
Speaker 1: now that it's you know, seven years later, we're mourning
Speaker 1: the loss of the structures that paid writers. I get it,
Speaker 1: but this cycle of like disenfranchisement is going to continue,
Speaker 1: and we have to figure out what we're gonna do
Speaker 1: about it. See, I actually feel completely different as someone
Speaker 1: who is a content creator who's worked for publishers. I
Speaker 1: think that what's happening on the mom Internet is happening everywhere.
Speaker 1: In the Washington Post article they actually talk about how
Speaker 1: as a publisher they're dealing with the very same thing.
Speaker 1: And so I think when you look at the way
Speaker 1: that Facebook not got on my like anti Facebook high horse,
Speaker 1: but look at the way that Facebook has made it
Speaker 1: so that publishers and content creators are completely at their will. Right,
Speaker 1: Facebook can wake up one day and say we're making
Speaker 1: this tweak. So all of the money that you've put
Speaker 1: into this one content strategy, the entire staff that you've
Speaker 1: built up to play to this strategy that we said
Speaker 1: was the winner is done. Fire them all. When you
Speaker 1: see publishers clean house and getting an entire staffs like
Speaker 1: Funny or Die did earlier this year, that's what's going on.
Speaker 1: And I think it's fair to ask, what are the
Speaker 1: nuances that are getting lost in the way that technology
Speaker 1: and social media is shaping the media that we produce
Speaker 1: and a content that we produce and how it gets consumed.
Speaker 1: Mike Drop, You've got me. Let's do it. Let's ask
Speaker 1: those questions. I love it. Yeah. One person who was
Speaker 1: asking those questions is blogger Josie Denise, who shuttered her
Speaker 1: blog American Mama a few years ago. Basically, she got
Speaker 1: fed up with the way that, she says that brands
Speaker 1: and sponsored content made her feel muzzled. When she first
Speaker 1: got a check for you know, writing a spot, would
Speaker 1: post or something, she was excited, but then she got
Speaker 1: this feeling like brands were watching her. So she didn't
Speaker 1: want to write anything too dark, anything too gritty, anything
Speaker 1: too real less that money dry up. And so when
Speaker 1: she decided to quit blogging. She wrote this scathing open
Speaker 1: letter called Dear mom Blogger to the community, basically calling
Speaker 1: the whole thing bullsh Josie's letter says, Dear mommy Blogger,
Speaker 1: nobody is reading your I mean no one. Even the
Speaker 1: people that you think are reading your they aren't actually
Speaker 1: reading it. The other mommy bloggers sure hell aren't reading it.
Speaker 1: They are scanning it for keywords that they can use
Speaker 1: in their comments. So cute. Yeah, I have to try this.
Speaker 1: They've been told, like you, in order to grow your brand,
Speaker 1: you must read and comment on similar size and similar
Speaker 1: themed blogs. The people clicking on it from Pinterest aren't
Speaker 1: reading it. They're looking for your recipe or helpful tip
Speaker 1: promise in the clickbait, or are year before and after photo.
Speaker 1: They might reap in the image and then they're done.
Speaker 1: The people sharing on Facebook they aren't reading it either.
Speaker 1: They just want to say whatever it is your headline says,
Speaker 1: but can't find the words themselves. Your family Nope. The
Speaker 1: checking to make sure that they don't have a double
Speaker 1: shin in the photo that you post of them, and
Speaker 1: zoning in on the paragraphs where their names are mentioned.
Speaker 1: So basically, Josie is saying Mommy bloggers, nobody's reading your
Speaker 1: We're all following the same guide book for how to
Speaker 1: get followers, So for any kind of engagement you're seeing
Speaker 1: is not actually meaningful. It's just another way of people
Speaker 1: trying to get more followers for their own brand. Emily,
Speaker 1: you have you seen you have a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: on this. What do you think? I think this woman
Speaker 1: had a fit on the internet. Um, and I find
Speaker 1: it really offensive. I mean, maybe nobody's reading your Josie.
Speaker 1: Maybe the sponsor money that you started getting paid for
Speaker 1: your on the internet. Would you say, no one reads
Speaker 1: became really limiting and muzzling to you, and those golden
Speaker 1: handcuffs were just too much to bear and you couldn't
Speaker 1: be your authentic self as a writer. And maybe you
Speaker 1: should just stop getting paid and right wherever this is
Speaker 1: that you want to write, and then no one has
Speaker 1: any control over you. I understand the frustration. I just
Speaker 1: think that she's blaming other people for how the internet works.
Speaker 1: I don't get that. Of course, people are self interested.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to write their own come up story. Everyone
Speaker 1: wants to be able to get paid to do the
Speaker 1: work that they love. But very few of us do
Speaker 1: and I think she should read. Um, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of great writing out there done by Elizabeth Gilbert, a
Speaker 1: book called Big Magic about the quest for creative sustainability,
Speaker 1: quite frankly after her mega hit that a lot of
Speaker 1: people roll their eyes at, called Eat Pray Love and
Speaker 1: the struggle to actually write something again after a weird
Speaker 1: overnight success story. Can I say something very random, please,
Speaker 1: I recently met a sminty listener in Brooklyn who has
Speaker 1: an Eat Pray Love quote tattooed on her back. So
Speaker 1: shout out to you. You know who you are. Thank
Speaker 1: you for showing me your tattoo. I hope you hear
Speaker 1: this good because I love Elizabeth Gilbert. I loved that
Speaker 1: book but and it was the book I needed at
Speaker 1: that time in my life when I was really struggling.
Speaker 1: And quite frankly, what Elizabeth Gilbert writes a lot about,
Speaker 1: what Cheryl Strade writes a lot about, is this common
Speaker 1: quest we have for creative fulfillment and financial stability that has,
Speaker 1: like as this tale, as old as time. So please
Speaker 1: don't complain about how the Internet works, because it has
Speaker 1: never been easier for you and any other random person
Speaker 1: to have access to the tools to write something so profound,
Speaker 1: or to write your life story down even if it
Speaker 1: isn't profound, and start becoming the writer that you want
Speaker 1: to be. You just risk not being paid for it,
Speaker 1: as have every writer throughout the course of time. Right,
Speaker 1: we've all struggled with that. I struggle with that, And
Speaker 1: it takes a long as time to be able to
Speaker 1: get paid to do what you're doing if you're lucky
Speaker 1: enough to be a creator who has the privilege of
Speaker 1: being paid for their creations. So I don't know, I
Speaker 1: find I'm like surprising myself that has strongly I'm responding
Speaker 1: to this person because frankly, I think it's a challenge
Speaker 1: to herself to write something better. Well, you're not the
Speaker 1: only person who feels that way. A lot of the
Speaker 1: people who read her letter said pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 1: They said, this person sounds really unhappy. This person sounds hateful.
Speaker 1: This person sounds like they are having a hard time
Speaker 1: coming to grips with their own hang ups as a creator,
Speaker 1: and there rather than looking inward, they're looking outwards. So
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be the only person who felt that way
Speaker 1: in the community. A lot of people felt really offended
Speaker 1: by what she said, and they weren't too keen on
Speaker 1: being called, you know, bullsh peddlers. I do think something
Speaker 1: that she is really kind of onto in her letter
Speaker 1: is the way that the professional blogging industry can play
Speaker 1: on sort of giving people the quote unquote magic tools
Speaker 1: to be successful for a fee. And so she goes
Speaker 1: on to talk about conferences and things like that where
Speaker 1: you pay lots of money to learn the tips and tricks,
Speaker 1: and that that ends up reinforcing that people are all
Speaker 1: behaving the same way online because they've been told this
Speaker 1: is how you make money from it, and that it's
Speaker 1: like an echo chamber where people are not having authentic
Speaker 1: reactions to content. They're doing what these consultants or trainers
Speaker 1: or whatever say this is what makes money, but that
Speaker 1: that becomes a cycle of the those people making money
Speaker 1: and it's not actually what is necessarily going to produce
Speaker 1: good content. And so I do think that she's onto
Speaker 1: something there that it kind of can become a little
Speaker 1: bit of a racket where people feel like, oh, I
Speaker 1: have to pay all this money in order to say
Speaker 1: anything on the Internet that's going to be seen. And
Speaker 1: I don't think that's good. I think that people should
Speaker 1: feel like they can put their idea kind of like
Speaker 1: what you were saying, people should feel like that they
Speaker 1: are empowered to put their ideas into the world and
Speaker 1: maybe they'll get money and maybe they won't. But we
Speaker 1: should be able to have a marketplace of ideas and content,
Speaker 1: and all that content should be able to, you know,
Speaker 1: get an audience if it's good, like I think that's
Speaker 1: what they're saying that. It used to be that good
Speaker 1: writing is what made you an audience, and good at
Speaker 1: writing is what gave you money. And now they're saying
Speaker 1: it's good sponsored content. The writing has taken a backseat.
Speaker 1: And again I see that large all over media. Big
Speaker 1: media outlets like The New York Times are saying clickbait
Speaker 1: and things that aren't necessarily true but will rally you up.
Speaker 1: That's what gets eyes on Facebook, that's what gets eyes
Speaker 1: on social media. It isn't this long form, authentic, well written,
Speaker 1: well researched piece. It's quickbait. It's things that make you angry.
Speaker 1: It's things that will make you be you know, losing
Speaker 1: your crap in the comments. And so I think that's absolutely,
Speaker 1: unquestionably true. I don't think it's particular to the mom
Speaker 1: blog industry. But I think it's fair to ask what
Speaker 1: gets lost when our media landscape changes towards those elements,
Speaker 1: and I think we should do more of that. After
Speaker 1: a quick break, and we're back getting a little heated
Speaker 1: talking about mommy blogging or mom blogging as it's more
Speaker 1: generally known. And again, I know I said this earlier
Speaker 1: in the show, but I want to be clear that
Speaker 1: I don't want to come down on anybody. I think
Speaker 1: that if your mom who is writing or is reading
Speaker 1: really gritty, authentic stuff, that is awesome. If you're a
Speaker 1: mom who wants to make extra money posting Instagram pictures
Speaker 1: about how your kids love tied or whatever, good for
Speaker 1: you too. I'm just saying that it's worth it to
Speaker 1: ask questions about what we lose when we shift from
Speaker 1: one and to another. And I just think consumers and
Speaker 1: audiences should be clear about what it is their consuming,
Speaker 1: if they should be clear about getting an ad, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that I've seen examples, particularly with celebrities, where
Speaker 1: it's the line is a little bit fuzzy, and the
Speaker 1: SEC agrees and as find them or come down on them,
Speaker 1: And I think that we should just be as consumers
Speaker 1: clear on what we are getting and what we are
Speaker 1: and as creators clear on what we're creating. I completely
Speaker 1: agree and I love what you mentioned earlier about moms
Speaker 1: are seeking community on the Internet. I think we all
Speaker 1: seek community on the internet in our own way or
Speaker 1: in general in life. And so if you are a
Speaker 1: creator who's only going to create according to the very
Speaker 1: current status of how to make money from your creation,
Speaker 1: you are missing the point. Like the long term benefit,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is in creating a community where people
Speaker 1: feel seen and heard, in creating content that helps foster
Speaker 1: that authentic connection online. That's those are the communities I
Speaker 1: want to belong to. Those are certainly the communities that
Speaker 1: I'm creating. And I want to acknowledge that sometimes the
Speaker 1: the financial incentives can bring people off course, but they're
Speaker 1: never worth it, you know what I mean, Like, they're
Speaker 1: never worth veering too far off course. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: our listeners will help us hold ourselves accountable if we
Speaker 1: ever veered too far off course in that way. And um, now,
Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting discussion about how moms
Speaker 1: in particular are worthy of being seen and validated for
Speaker 1: who they are and what their life experiences look like
Speaker 1: not this, you know, sanitized Instagram pinches perfect version of it.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what one reddit commenter on the subreddit blog
Speaker 1: Snark had to say in response to the post article
Speaker 1: that we quoted from earlier. She writes, I don't want
Speaker 1: my Internet, with supportive communities that encourage honor sharing and yes,
Speaker 1: even quote confessional style expression, to be replaced by delightful
Speaker 1: pictures of immaculately clad children eating chia, putting out of
Speaker 1: ten teenv may some jars just no, Well, you know
Speaker 1: what the rising of is. Who does that really well?
Speaker 1: Who balances that line really well? Christie Teagan. Christie Teagan
Speaker 1: is beloved not because of the perfect teeny tiny Mason
Speaker 1: jars that are in her Instagram post on occasion or
Speaker 1: her beautifully laid out in photograph cookbooks. She is popular
Speaker 1: because she keeps it real, because she shows you the
Speaker 1: gritty crape. But she can keep it real because she
Speaker 1: doesn't really need the money. Right, It's a privilege to
Speaker 1: be able to keep it real, right if you it's
Speaker 1: a privilege to be able to I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think you risk not getting paid. But people, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, People who can make that risk. Are
Speaker 1: people who have money can't be broke like me? Sometimes?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I'm saying, Like I'm saying, let's
Speaker 1: not pretend that there isn't an element of privilege that
Speaker 1: goes on here. That if you are a struggling single
Speaker 1: mom who has something to say that, but you need
Speaker 1: to work to jobs, you don't have the you don't
Speaker 1: have the ability to say, I'll just make this content
Speaker 1: on top of my two jobs and motherhood and not
Speaker 1: get paid for it. And so I'm saying that that
Speaker 1: impacts the landscape of who whose voices gets raised and
Speaker 1: whose voices we never hear. And so I do think
Speaker 1: it comes back to that, Yes, that is such a
Speaker 1: good point that I was totally missing. So what you're
Speaker 1: saying is the way that the market rewards like winners
Speaker 1: and losers um in the mom blog space determines in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways how privileged the voices are that
Speaker 1: we actually hear from. And that is important exactly that
Speaker 1: how can we fix that? I think it's I think
Speaker 1: it's people are asking that question all over media. I
Speaker 1: don't think I don't know if there is a fix.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is just how our media landscape is and
Speaker 1: it sucks, and it's new and it's scary and it's
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know. Advertisers can't advertisers
Speaker 1: do better to reach out to more diverse voices, more
Speaker 1: unheard voices, more. I mean, it's not in their financial
Speaker 1: incentive necessarily, but maybe it could be. Right, That's what
Speaker 1: I was saying earlier. Maybe there's an advertiser out there
Speaker 1: that has enough respect for their consumer base that they
Speaker 1: want to sponsor reality. They want to sponsor what it
Speaker 1: actually looks like to be a mother, They want to
Speaker 1: sponsor you know. I love the natural hair community. I
Speaker 1: think they've done a great job of showing, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give money to women who don't necessarily have
Speaker 1: perfect hair all the time so that women can see,
Speaker 1: you know, if I don't have perfect curls that fall
Speaker 1: and spiraled ringlets around my face in a perfect way
Speaker 1: every day, this product can still work for me. Nobody
Speaker 1: wants to buy the product that seems like it's made
Speaker 1: for girls who look perfect already. You want the product
Speaker 1: that's going to be there for you when you're dry
Speaker 1: and you're crispy and you're not looking your best it
Speaker 1: convince me that your product will be there for me
Speaker 1: when I'm not looking my best, and I'll be I'll
Speaker 1: be a follower for life. I hear you. Aspirational is
Speaker 1: the challenge. That's the world we live in is aspirational advertising.
Speaker 1: People don't want their product next to crispy hair, don't.
Speaker 1: But women with crispy curls meet a product that's gonna
Speaker 1: work for them. So like, w'ere isn't they want a
Speaker 1: product that will make their hair not crispy. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the aspirational part of it. I'm someone who is always
Speaker 1: like that girl has perfect hair, and she her hair
Speaker 1: always looks good. Like this product is not why her
Speaker 1: hair looks good. Her hair always looks good. Well, I
Speaker 1: think that's part of Okay, So here's an example. So
Speaker 1: I'm struggling a lot with my skin right now, as
Speaker 1: I'm very public about on this podcast and on my Instagram. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm currently trying to go gluten free to help figure
Speaker 1: it out for my skin, which is the worst because
Speaker 1: I love carbs. That's part of why I love veganism,
Speaker 1: because I could just live on bread all day. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I think that part of my life might be coming
Speaker 1: to a close. So I've been really working on my skincare,
Speaker 1: gladly accepting products for free from from people who send
Speaker 1: them to me for me to then try it. They're
Speaker 1: not sending to me because I have perfect skin. They're
Speaker 1: sending it to me to see if it helps my skin.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying it and sharing my journey with a
Speaker 1: lot of my followers to see if it works. And
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like pretend it works if it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But that's a transformation, like you are saying about here,
Speaker 1: that's what people want to see, and that's what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: more people should sponsor me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: More people reponsor you. But also that brand should get
Speaker 1: that nuance that aligning yourself with perfection is not what
Speaker 1: people necessarily want to see. It drives self doubt, and
Speaker 1: self doubt is probably a very effective way to get
Speaker 1: people to buy your products. But what people actually want
Speaker 1: to see is someone with problem skin, not to problem
Speaker 1: skin problematics. Yeah, people want to see that someone with
Speaker 1: problematic skin that a product will help them. You know,
Speaker 1: if you if you're making a product with people with
Speaker 1: problem skin, it doesn't make sense to only have people
Speaker 1: who have naturally glowing skin, even though that is, you know,
Speaker 1: the attainable goal. We are very self interested in today's podcast,
Speaker 1: y'all if you can't tell already, because do you know
Speaker 1: who are perfectly imperfect spokespeople for any product or service?
Speaker 1: Is you? And I? I agree? How foul doble we are.
Speaker 1: I mean, sponsors should be banging down our doors because
Speaker 1: of our imperfections. I totally agree speaking of imperfect sponsors,
Speaker 1: I would be remiss to not shout out one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things in a span kN world, and that
Speaker 1: is Celebrity spann Con. One of my favorite podcasts, Who
Speaker 1: Weekly was a great job of breaking down the ins
Speaker 1: and outs of Celebrity spann Con and it once once
Speaker 1: you start seeing the tropes, it's everywhere and it's amazing
Speaker 1: and so definitely start looking. So just Who Weekly in
Speaker 1: general is amazing. You turned me on to this, and god,
Speaker 1: it's like a tabloid read. So again, just if you're
Speaker 1: wondering Who Weekly, what the hell is that? You know?
Speaker 1: How there's US Weekly and it's about a list celebrities.
Speaker 1: Imagine if there was a magazine called Who Weekly for
Speaker 1: all those celebrities where you're like, I kind of know
Speaker 1: who that is, but who are they? Who is that
Speaker 1: guy from that thing? Yeah, like Bella Hadid I know
Speaker 1: that name? What she in Rita? Or I think I
Speaker 1: saw her in this thing? But what's what is she
Speaker 1: known for? All these people that are in your celeb
Speaker 1: landscape that maybe aren't you know, aren't them there? And
Speaker 1: so who's have the best sponsored content on Instagram of anybody? Well,
Speaker 1: it does actually relate because something that they point out
Speaker 1: so well is when celebrities, particularly Who's, are so clearly
Speaker 1: being paid to hawk a product on Instagram. One of
Speaker 1: the funniest ways this comes across is when you can
Speaker 1: tell a celebrity is just copying and pasting the caption
Speaker 1: that they're getting from a PR person for a product
Speaker 1: into the Instagram caption. And Naomi Campbell has done this,
Speaker 1: even Lord Scott Disick has done this, and one of
Speaker 1: the funniest Instagram caption I've ever seen. It's a picture
Speaker 1: of him with some sort of protein powder and the
Speaker 1: caption that he has on Instagram is here you go
Speaker 1: at four pm Eastern time, right the blow caption keep
Speaker 1: up with keep up, keeping up with the summer workout
Speaker 1: routine with my morning and then at the product, it's
Speaker 1: so funny. I mean, so this is just my my,
Speaker 1: my p s A. So much of what you're seeing
Speaker 1: on Instagram is just bus and just know we know that,
Speaker 1: but it's always good to have a reminder that it is.
Speaker 1: Scott Distac, I'm very surprised that you just didn't even
Speaker 1: read this you copied. I mean, actually no, I am surprised.
Speaker 1: I expected more from Scott Distc. I'm gonna say it, Scott,
Speaker 1: if you're listening, didn't I expected more from you? He's like,
Speaker 1: what we oh man, Yeah, we really went off the
Speaker 1: mommy mommy blogger rails here. But I hope this conversation
Speaker 1: got us thinking God is asking some tough questions. And
Speaker 1: I think the best point that you made in this
Speaker 1: entire conversation, the best point made period in this entire episode,
Speaker 1: was what you said about privilege, the ways in which
Speaker 1: our media structures create winners and losers create capitalist you know,
Speaker 1: people who are creating things that are worthy of capitalism's
Speaker 1: financial reward versus not can have strong ramifications for those
Speaker 1: who get erased from the content sphere altogether. And that's
Speaker 1: really really problematic. So I want to hear from you
Speaker 1: smithy listeners, what is the kind of content that you
Speaker 1: want to see in the world, whether it's in the
Speaker 1: mommy blogger space, sorry, the mom blogger space, or you know,
Speaker 1: in podcasting and blogging and Instagram creators in general, and
Speaker 1: how can sponsors, how can we create a marketplace for
Speaker 1: better you know, sponsor to creator connections to make what
Speaker 1: we're seeing on the internet not all protein powder with
Speaker 1: pasted captions. It's a great question, and I think it's
Speaker 1: a question that's important to be asked, and it's one
Speaker 1: that I really want to throw to our listeners. You know,
Speaker 1: are you a mom blogger? Are you a content creator?
Speaker 1: What does that looks like for you? Has it been
Speaker 1: difficult or have you embraced the Instagram Pinterest perfection of
Speaker 1: mom blog content or are you out there trying to
Speaker 1: keep it real and be gritty. I'm really just curious
Speaker 1: what people are doing online, So make sure to hit
Speaker 1: us up on Instagram. Are very unsponsored Instagram at stuff
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You, on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
Speaker 1: and as always are inboxes open at mom Stuff, at
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, and just as a final reminder,
Speaker 1: for those of you who want to join my fireside chat,
Speaker 1: but I'm having with stuff I've never told you listeners.
Speaker 1: At the end of this month, I'm talking about my
Speaker 1: departure from the show, answering your questions and getting your
Speaker 1: feedback on how I can still create the kind of
Speaker 1: content that you want to hear. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I as a creator, I am really committed
Speaker 1: to creating what you want to hear more of. So
Speaker 1: join me to communicate directly with me live on a
Speaker 1: webinar I'm hosting on February at eight pm Eastern by
Speaker 1: going to bost up dot org slash sminty. That's bossed
Speaker 1: up bo s s e d up dot org slash
Speaker 1: s m n T. Why hope to see you Then
Speaker 1: three two p