Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening the stuff momb
Speaker 1: never told you. Today's episode is exciting for two reasons. One,
Speaker 1: it's recorded live right here in Austin, Texas from south
Speaker 1: By Southwest. And two, it's really a celebration of one
Speaker 1: of my favorite topics, and that is the work life.
Speaker 1: That's right, we're talking to your friend who reads that
Speaker 1: late night email when you're having a freak out or
Speaker 1: responds to your text at three am when you're crying
Speaker 1: in the bathroom. I was joined by three rad ladies
Speaker 1: to discuss why our work lives are so important? Did
Speaker 1: you know that women are actually hardwired for friendship? A
Speaker 1: study by Laura Klein and Kelly Taylor on that when
Speaker 1: life gets tough, women actually seek out friendships with other
Speaker 1: women as a means of regulating their stress level. As
Speaker 1: they put it, women quote tend and befriend to deal
Speaker 1: with situations. And if you listen to our episode, can
Speaker 1: We be Friends? You already know that lady friends are
Speaker 1: good for your health. In fact, a study by David
Speaker 1: Spiegel found that the survival rate of women with breast
Speaker 1: cancer was much higher among those with a strong supportive
Speaker 1: circle of friends. Versus those who lived in social isolation.
Speaker 1: And beyond that, your work wife is actually good for business.
Speaker 1: According to a study from the Institute for Operations Research
Speaker 1: and the Management Sciences, when employers bustered office environment that
Speaker 1: supports positive social relationships between women co workers, female employees
Speaker 1: are much less likely to experience conflict. Now this is
Speaker 1: especially true in male dominated fields. So now you know
Speaker 1: why lady friends are so important. Now. I was really
Speaker 1: excited to be joined I r L by some of
Speaker 1: my newest lady friends Blair Monty, Basiamerza and Darien Smone
Speaker 1: Harvin to talk about our favorite lady friends both in
Speaker 1: pop culture and I r L enough set up without
Speaker 1: further ado, here Sminty Live, this is Grid and you're
Speaker 1: listening or I guess watching stuff Mom never told you
Speaker 1: um today, I'm really really stoked to be joined by
Speaker 1: such an awesome crew of soon to be lady pals.
Speaker 1: I think and hope we'll see um. If you listen
Speaker 1: to the show, you know that this was a show
Speaker 1: that has really been about dynamic women collaborating together. The
Speaker 1: earlier iteration of the show was two awesome women Molly
Speaker 1: and Kristen. Then after that it was another two awesome women,
Speaker 1: Kristin and Caroline, and it was me and my good
Speaker 1: pal Emily Aries, who recently left to do her own thing.
Speaker 1: And what I learned from that experience of working on
Speaker 1: a collaborative project with a friend is that lady friends
Speaker 1: are very important, not just to get stuff done. They're
Speaker 1: the person who's there answering your email when it's in
Speaker 1: all caps, but the person who you know answers that
Speaker 1: group text at three am when you are losing your uh.
Speaker 1: They're there for you, and you know, there's no one
Speaker 1: I would have rather have done that show with and
Speaker 1: my good friend Emily, And when she left to go
Speaker 1: do bigger and better things, I was so happy for her,
Speaker 1: but it made me want to really uplift and reaffirm
Speaker 1: the importance of lady friendships. So that's what today's episode
Speaker 1: is all about. I'm so stoked to be joined by
Speaker 1: my pal here today. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 1: My name is Fausia Mirza. Um what else should I
Speaker 1: tell you? Um? Tell us your favorite best friend duo
Speaker 1: in pop culture? Oh gosh, um, I can I have
Speaker 1: to say? My favorite best friend duo right now is
Speaker 1: actually my best friend who lives in Austin. I know
Speaker 1: that's on pop culture, but it will be because we
Speaker 1: are pitching a television show. So uh, but she can't
Speaker 1: be here right now because she's doing god knows what.
Speaker 1: But Lisa Donato is one of my best friends and
Speaker 1: my lady collaborator and buddy that makes everything makes sense
Speaker 1: when nothing else does. Hi. I'm Darien Harvin. Um. I
Speaker 1: am a digital media and social media consultant and I
Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles. I would have to say that
Speaker 1: my current like, besides Beyonce and Kelly, my favorite kind
Speaker 1: of like BFFs right now. Does anyone watch Claws our
Speaker 1: clause on TNT? Okay, so if you watch that show,
Speaker 1: then all of kind of like the main characters and
Speaker 1: with niece Nash are all kind of like bff lady friends,
Speaker 1: but specifically her relationship in the show. Um with I
Speaker 1: wrote it down because I'm so bad at actor and
Speaker 1: actresses names. Um, Carrie Preston and she plays Polly and
Speaker 1: NC Nash plays does Not. And I just love the
Speaker 1: dynamic of how they lean on one another on one another.
Speaker 1: So they're my favorite in pop culture right now. Awesome. Um,
Speaker 1: my name is Blair Monty. I'm an activist Black Lives
Speaker 1: Matter and lgbt Q rights activists. Um, and I'm also
Speaker 1: an author. My books coming out in October, so screw
Speaker 1: everybody who told me I couldn't write a book. So
Speaker 1: I don't know how to use commas. Um, she's not
Speaker 1: gonna learn. Yeah, I'm gonna send them all to my
Speaker 1: English teachers who are like, Blair, what are you doing? Um?
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think my favorite hopefully they can be
Speaker 1: real people. You said, real people. Um? Uh. Tegan and Sarah, Um,
Speaker 1: they're siblings, so like sibling activists, like activists doos sibling
Speaker 1: best friend duos. Sorry, everything in my mind is activist oriented. Um.
Speaker 1: And then also the Lucas brothers, who are also a
Speaker 1: sibling duo. I'm just trying to also befriend all of
Speaker 1: the like indie twin sibling duos right now. Um it's
Speaker 1: going well. Um, but yeah, I just love the dynamics. Um.
Speaker 1: My best friend is my younger sister Chelsea, who she
Speaker 1: probably won't agree with me, but just kind of like
Speaker 1: the animosity, like don't sounds real close to me like
Speaker 1: that like love hate, but also I'll have your back
Speaker 1: no matter what. And I will punch your partner in
Speaker 1: the elevator ALLASA launch. I love it. I love that
Speaker 1: you brought up I mean, I'm gonna gonna jump right in.
Speaker 1: I love that you brought up sibling friendships because I'm
Speaker 1: a I'm a younger sister, um, super braddy all of that.
Speaker 1: You don't actually see a lot of sibling relationships as
Speaker 1: friendships on the big screen, right. Usually it's they don't
Speaker 1: like each other, or they only exist because you know,
Speaker 1: the sister has a crush on the brother's friend or
Speaker 1: something like that. Um. So I love that you brought
Speaker 1: up siblings because definitely, I think, like your your siblings,
Speaker 1: the way that we were raised atlis who's like you know,
Speaker 1: when we're like when push comes to shove, your siblings
Speaker 1: are going to have your back no matter what. That's
Speaker 1: not the case for everybody, but definitely in my family. Like,
Speaker 1: I got beat up by this dude at school, and
Speaker 1: my brother, who was a couple of years older than me,
Speaker 1: he came back to campus and he was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's up, Like, what's what's happening? And so it was
Speaker 1: like just that that presence, that constant presence, like that's
Speaker 1: going to outlive, you know, hopefully all of the friendships
Speaker 1: you have because you you know, you're born with these
Speaker 1: folks or raised together. Inquiring minds want to know, did
Speaker 1: your brother kick that guy's ask? My brother is a
Speaker 1: pacifist um as of my but he gave him a
Speaker 1: stern Talking to Chelsea, So, I have four siblings, Nancy, Marlina, Brandon, Chelsea,
Speaker 1: um and we're all pretty spread out except for me
Speaker 1: and Chelsea. I would like antagonize people with language and
Speaker 1: so with Brandon, and then Chelsea would come in with
Speaker 1: the muscle. Um so, but we're all pacifist. It sounds
Speaker 1: like it's so true though, that like you don't get
Speaker 1: to see these positive female like sibling relationships, even though
Speaker 1: I know growing up and I do have an older sister,
Speaker 1: but with the seven years different between us, it was
Speaker 1: really hard for us to be friends. And you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in a conservative Pakistani must some household,
Speaker 1: so it was like, don't tell anybody anything about anything,
Speaker 1: including the people your blood related to, right and so,
Speaker 1: so that's been kind of a bit of our struggle.
Speaker 1: But I'm I have to say, I'm very excited about
Speaker 1: um a sibling relationship in a new show UH that's
Speaker 1: going to be on Stars, which is truly, I think,
Speaker 1: very exciting and never seen before. It's the Latin xt
Speaker 1: queer show UM called Vita and Um. The two main
Speaker 1: characters are sisters who come back to East l A
Speaker 1: when their mother dies and they're so different and um
Speaker 1: but also having to reconnect as sisters in his family.
Speaker 1: And I got to watch the first few episodes, but
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yes, we don't see that ever, and
Speaker 1: and brownness and sister nous and friendship nous all of
Speaker 1: the end, queerness in all one space is super powerful
Speaker 1: and exciting, totally. I was having a conversation with General
Speaker 1: were them recently on from Still Processing, which is a
Speaker 1: great podcast. You don't listen to it, um, so you should.
Speaker 1: But she was talking about how you don't even kind
Speaker 1: of realize how sort of traumatic it can be to
Speaker 1: not see your own story reflected on screen, and that
Speaker 1: when you actually see it, only then are you like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I was thirsting for a representation of
Speaker 1: what something that looks like me. And if you can't
Speaker 1: see these authentic, meaningful depictions of siblings and friendships you
Speaker 1: know that look like you, you kind of don't realize
Speaker 1: what a big thing that is until you actually see it,
Speaker 1: so it's very from it. Yeah, I agree with that,
Speaker 1: and I also that experience that you just described actually
Speaker 1: had that but with Black Panther. So for me, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously that was like a sci fi marvel action movie.
Speaker 1: But I will never forget actually went with my parents.
Speaker 1: They were coming to visit in l A. And I
Speaker 1: waited a few days because I wanted to see it
Speaker 1: with them, and I remember just going up the elevator
Speaker 1: and thinking to myself, I have never even seen a
Speaker 1: black woman who look like me portrayed in that way
Speaker 1: so consistently throughout, like a timeline of a movie. And
Speaker 1: I didn't even in that at first. I was even
Speaker 1: taken aback by it and like a little shock that
Speaker 1: at first I had known it, but because I had
Speaker 1: never truly seen it before. In that moment when I
Speaker 1: finally did, it like hit me like a ton of bricks,
Speaker 1: and it's you're right, like you don't even really understand
Speaker 1: like the devastation of it really until it's actually it
Speaker 1: actually comes to fruition totally. That's percent true. Like, so
Speaker 1: we always watched shows like Full House and like The
Speaker 1: Cosby Show and just you know, all of those shows
Speaker 1: that were you know, I was born in any three,
Speaker 1: so we're all reruns at that point. But we would
Speaker 1: we would always watch those shows and I'd be like, wow,
Speaker 1: and I actually watched The Cosby Show, for example, like
Speaker 1: so often that I would start to conflate experiences as
Speaker 1: the kids were having with my own life. I'd be like, Dad,
Speaker 1: remember that time you cut a hole in the middle
Speaker 1: of the chocolate cake and then stuffed paper towels in
Speaker 1: the cake and then cover that he he was like Blair.
Speaker 1: That was definitely an episode of The Cosby Show. And
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of that happening. But the funny
Speaker 1: thing was that I felt like those families were so perfect,
Speaker 1: like even though in full house, like there was a
Speaker 1: different dynamic than most families like or whatever that means,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I felt like there had to be
Speaker 1: the two point five kids and the mom and the
Speaker 1: dad and that any kind of unrest or like um,
Speaker 1: you know, growing up with my sister Chelsea, she's autistic
Speaker 1: in um um bipolar, and so I never saw that
Speaker 1: representation except in that one movie that Shyla buff was
Speaker 1: in that like did a really sloppy job. Um or
Speaker 1: like in rain Man, just seeing somebody with like a
Speaker 1: sibling that was disabled. And so especially like in seeing
Speaker 1: rain Man, like that was such a traumatic like vision
Speaker 1: of what a family looks like with um, you know
Speaker 1: it's a disabled child. But my mom would always tell me, like,
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of stuff, mom and would told you
Speaker 1: my mom, like, I feel like she told me everything.
Speaker 1: She's like, nobody's family is like what you see on
Speaker 1: the Cosby Show or what you see in the Fresh Prince,
Speaker 1: Like everybody's family is a mess. And so that always
Speaker 1: was very comforting to me because when you know, when
Speaker 1: crazy stuff happens, like my um, my grandfather had a
Speaker 1: lot of kids and so we have a lot of cousins.
Speaker 1: And when my older cousin started almost dating her cousin, like,
Speaker 1: that's wild hilarious stuff that she wouldn't really see on TV,
Speaker 1: but like it's a relatable, hilarious experience. I thought it
Speaker 1: was hilarious. She did not, Um, But yeah, like the
Speaker 1: families we see on TV, when we do see families
Speaker 1: are so non dysfunctional that it's like it makes you
Speaker 1: think that your family is the odd one out. But
Speaker 1: everybody's dealing with wildness. Well, and they're the model minorities, right,
Speaker 1: So it's like I thought the same thing. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, why is my boxsany Muslim family living
Speaker 1: in Sydney, Nova, Scotia, Canada, not like the Cosby Show,
Speaker 1: because that is what we should be like and that
Speaker 1: and I wasn't even allowed to date like boys, much
Speaker 1: less have sex with women and so and so that
Speaker 1: was such a you know, departure from any reality. But
Speaker 1: I just thought, that is normal. Why don't we act
Speaker 1: like that? That is right? And it took years to
Speaker 1: realize exactly what you're talking about, which is we're all
Speaker 1: messed up and that is beautiful actually, and the complications
Speaker 1: of that now I find great joy in. But it
Speaker 1: took a lot of work and there were there were
Speaker 1: no depictions, I mean even now, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's a great time to be you know, it's
Speaker 1: real sexy right now to be South Asian. And oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's like the Dina el Amine I think
Speaker 1: that's her last name on The Bold Type. I had
Speaker 1: just come out as a queer Muslim on Fox News.
Speaker 1: It was a mess. How about to come out? By
Speaker 1: the way, you know, I always were like, how about
Speaker 1: I pick a safe place right where people really embrace
Speaker 1: me for who I am on Tucker Carlson Tonight and
Speaker 1: so yeah, you're living you learn. But anyway, so but
Speaker 1: when after that happened, Um the Bull Type premiered and
Speaker 1: there's a Dina el Amine and like the big tagline,
Speaker 1: he's like, well, you know in my Twitter bio says
Speaker 1: I'm a proud Muslim lesbian and everybody was like, Blair,
Speaker 1: you have to watch and so I did. But it
Speaker 1: was like I was frustrated because I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like typecasting me. And then I watched it
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, this is really it speaks
Speaker 1: to me in a lot of ways, and so I
Speaker 1: wrote about it for for Glad actually, but it's also like,
Speaker 1: would we be in this moment if it wasn't so
Speaker 1: sexy to be Muslim right now? Like it, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's the the oppressed group didure and it's really
Speaker 1: frustrating to be seen as a token. So out of curiosity,
Speaker 1: why do you think we're in this moment? But that
Speaker 1: is like a sexy thing right now. I think it's
Speaker 1: like like Judeo Christian Gil in addition to white gil
Speaker 1: in addition. It's like, you know, like it's it's a
Speaker 1: similar phenomenon to me from seeing like Obama when I
Speaker 1: was in middle school, Obama was running for office, and
Speaker 1: I don't know about y'all, but I was like the
Speaker 1: all this the spokesperson for Young Black America at the
Speaker 1: age of fourteen when he was running for office. It
Speaker 1: was like, Blair, what do you think? And I was like,
Speaker 1: I think that I just want to get my math
Speaker 1: homework done on time, like I don't really care. And
Speaker 1: so you were a good representative for the entire you know,
Speaker 1: and now I'm a public speaker. So um, it leveled
Speaker 1: up to something. But it's it's interesting we have the
Speaker 1: Muslim ban. I think that there are people grappling with
Speaker 1: this idea of like, well, this this group is being
Speaker 1: oppressed and I have biases against them. Let me learn
Speaker 1: more about this group, and so um, like right after
Speaker 1: Trump became president, I had tweeted that I'm afraid this
Speaker 1: would be the last time I feel safe were in hijab,
Speaker 1: And for a long time it was like it was
Speaker 1: a lot of um violence happening to Muslim women and
Speaker 1: still going on, especially in London, like acid attacks, where
Speaker 1: people are you know, showing that they are not terrorists
Speaker 1: by show by the shopping acid into the faces of
Speaker 1: Muslim women. UM. And so this violence, it really culminates
Speaker 1: into this. You know, people who are in you know,
Speaker 1: the silent majority or people who um are well meaning
Speaker 1: folks who don't espouse like vitriolic ideology, who are thinking
Speaker 1: what can I do to learn more? What can I
Speaker 1: do to help? Um. It's like when we saw the
Speaker 1: phenomenon of people wearing safety pins and then folks realizing, well,
Speaker 1: that's not doing very much. What can we do in addition, um,
Speaker 1: so like subscribing to the safety pinbox to learn how
Speaker 1: to become a better ally um through monthly subscription services.
Speaker 1: So I think that it a genuine curiosity for some people,
Speaker 1: and I think for other folks it's a check you
Speaker 1: know well. And I think that there's something about the
Speaker 1: fact that like, you know, given the like I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact eloquent language you use about like dijour
Speaker 1: right like, but but the social justice issue or the
Speaker 1: social justice class of the social justice race, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, black people or Latin X people
Speaker 1: or um, you know, even right now with the Me
Speaker 1: Too movement. I mean I worked in sexual violence for
Speaker 1: a long time, prevention for a long time, and you know,
Speaker 1: right now, the fact that people are like, God, this
Speaker 1: is a thing that's happening, and I'm like, yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's been going on since humans were invented by whatever
Speaker 1: you believe in, right, and so this is not new.
Speaker 1: This is not a new thing. And so so you know,
Speaker 1: I think post nine eleven is kind of when you know,
Speaker 1: as a South Asian Muslim, I remember a Pakistani Muslim.
Speaker 1: I remember before nine eleven there was the where's Pakistan?
Speaker 1: Post nine eleven, it was like, oh, I know where
Speaker 1: you're from. I know where you're from. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. I get now I've converted two years ago
Speaker 1: and now people it's so funny, like I do tweet
Speaker 1: about it a lot, but like people want me to
Speaker 1: be where they're from, like if they're you know, if
Speaker 1: they're immigrants, They're like, are you from Egypt? And I'm
Speaker 1: like no, I'm just regular black, like regular regular today
Speaker 1: like and people are subsid I don't speak Arabic. And
Speaker 1: then I'll meet folks from Pakistan and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: are you from like the Pashtoon region, And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: but I know where that is. Like it's so awkward,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because people, I think people want to
Speaker 1: be they want to be conscious, right, and they want
Speaker 1: to show you that they're trying. And then it turns
Speaker 1: into assumptions that you don't speak English. But well, meeting
Speaker 1: assumptions that you don't speak English, um gets stron to
Speaker 1: in every language that is not mine, which is like
Speaker 1: English or do and maybe French because I'm Canadian, but
Speaker 1: that's and maybe Canadian some people think that's a language, um,
Speaker 1: but it's never it never works. And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm I'm just Pakistani and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: are you okay? Yeah, I'm doing great. Actually I have
Speaker 1: a lot of joy I love you, and I love
Speaker 1: all of us. But but it's it's it's fascinating, and
Speaker 1: I think part of the part of the power of
Speaker 1: whatever it is happening right now is how can we
Speaker 1: use that to transcend the narrative, transcend and create space
Speaker 1: for us because we as us, we've always been there, right,
Speaker 1: It's not like gay people were just invented, you know
Speaker 1: when stream Yeah, when Ellen came out, it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my God, gays of welcome. Gays. You know, we've always
Speaker 1: been here. And one of the things I love to
Speaker 1: talk about is, you know, when you know the people
Speaker 1: built the taj Mahal, you know, the the Harems, I mean,
Speaker 1: the Harems were not just you know, women, there were
Speaker 1: people of all different intersectional spaces, queer people, trans people. Um,
Speaker 1: the oldest religion and one of the oldest religion in
Speaker 1: the world, I mean, Thuism. There are trans people in
Speaker 1: in the Ramayana. And so what it is is that,
Speaker 1: like in a post colonization world, we're kind of just
Speaker 1: getting to a place where we can revisit where people
Speaker 1: of color come from and our stories and our power
Speaker 1: and so um, yeah, let's let's enjoy that. Yeah, y'all,
Speaker 1: this is a good time to be alive. It does
Speaker 1: feel like a really interesting time. Something that you both
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier was sort of seeing The Cosby Show and
Speaker 1: being like, oh, this family kind of looks like mine,
Speaker 1: but it's different from mine because they're squeaky clean, and
Speaker 1: I wonder you know, you brought up Ellen Um. Some
Speaker 1: cultural critics have actually said shows like The Cosby Show
Speaker 1: helped sort of America imagine what black, upper middle class
Speaker 1: folks looked like. Um, some folks would say like shows
Speaker 1: like William Grace help people imagine what gay people look like.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I feel about those comments, but
Speaker 1: part of me wonders, is there some truth to that
Speaker 1: that in this moment where you know, Muslim folks and
Speaker 1: queer folks and folks of color are up having a
Speaker 1: moment in pop culture, is there something to be said
Speaker 1: for the fact that that might help folks who otherwise
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to say, like, there's a Muslim girl
Speaker 1: in my school, help them humanize us in a way
Speaker 1: that they couldn't before. Or is it just tokenization? And well,
Speaker 1: I think about Blackish right now that you know I
Speaker 1: I often what I always try to remember about when
Speaker 1: we have movements or moments within culture is that typically
Speaker 1: it's not the first time that it's happened, right, And
Speaker 1: so for me, I think about a show like Blackish
Speaker 1: where even just on a personal level, definitely elements of
Speaker 1: those characters and that family dynamic that were a lot
Speaker 1: like mine. Would I like other people who don't look
Speaker 1: like me, white folks to watch that show, especially kids,
Speaker 1: and to take something from those family dynamics. Absolutely for
Speaker 1: me personally, UM, But I think it also just depends.
Speaker 1: I think that there is something to be taken away
Speaker 1: from UM A lot of these at a show like Blackish,
Speaker 1: even if we're just if I'm going to focus on that,
Speaker 1: UM because of the way that they do portray black
Speaker 1: life in the dynamic of that, and I think that
Speaker 1: they also do a good job of not just showing
Speaker 1: one version of it. I like how uh Anthony, I'm
Speaker 1: so bad at actors names, but the but the husband,
Speaker 1: you know, like he doesn't come from the same background
Speaker 1: as Jracy Ellis Ross. They're trying to raise their children,
Speaker 1: um in an upper middle class family with some morals,
Speaker 1: and they also have mothers and fathers in law who
Speaker 1: also didn't grow up the same way as them either,
Speaker 1: and they're mersed into the show. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: when I think about shows like that, I am okay
Speaker 1: with what people are going to take away from them.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, I think definitely that's very true of Blackish.
Speaker 1: Like I almost don't watch Blackish because it's so similar
Speaker 1: to my family and it's a little jarring like they
Speaker 1: sound amazing. Can we all come over totally? If you're
Speaker 1: ever in Los Angeles, everyone listening to this podcast, you're
Speaker 1: invited a reasoner at my mother's house because if I've
Speaker 1: spoken to you once, you're my best friends in her
Speaker 1: mind and we can all hang out. Um, So leose
Speaker 1: podcasts to be like that's true. Um, But with with
Speaker 1: the Cosby Show, I think that it's really like you're
Speaker 1: hearing more about folks who were on the Cosby Show,
Speaker 1: and we're dealing with the sexual violence that Bill Cosby
Speaker 1: was perpetrating. And so when it comes to the Causeby show,
Speaker 1: like it was such a respectable version of black identity, right,
Speaker 1: and in pursuing the protection of that, so much stuff
Speaker 1: was swept under the rug. So I think that while
Speaker 1: there was good that came from the Cosby Show, if
Speaker 1: we're pursuing this like idealized vision to the point where
Speaker 1: we're silencing people who are going through violence, that's not okay.
Speaker 1: So that's with any TV show, like um if somebody's
Speaker 1: it happens a lot with child actors as well, who
Speaker 1: go through like the worst treatment as young people in
Speaker 1: these spaces with a lot of predatory adults, and it's
Speaker 1: swept under the rug to maintain the squeaky clean image
Speaker 1: of the child. But meanwhile people are suffering. So I
Speaker 1: think that looking at the Causeby show in full context,
Speaker 1: it makes it so much more insidious that it was
Speaker 1: the squeaky clean image. But I think that shows, you know,
Speaker 1: for for a lot of people, that show was the
Speaker 1: first entry into like the black identity of the black experience.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't that sort of just go to show
Speaker 1: how important these representations are for us that I completely
Speaker 1: agree a lot of people did. They were really quick
Speaker 1: to sleep that abuse under the rug and not believe it.
Speaker 1: And like all of these allegations came forward, So it
Speaker 1: wasn't he said, she said, it was. He said, she said,
Speaker 1: she said, she said, she said, she said, and so
Speaker 1: she said, she said, she said. Still people were plugging
Speaker 1: their ears. I know, I know black folks today that
Speaker 1: still don't believe it. I know people today who were
Speaker 1: still like, well, Cosby was trying to buy NBC and
Speaker 1: you know they won't let a black many successful, so
Speaker 1: they had to take him down. And it just goes
Speaker 1: to show that we as as people of color, are
Speaker 1: so thirsty for representation that when we get something that
Speaker 1: feels meaningful, we will do anything to protect that image,
Speaker 1: even if it's your toxic and violent I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's so complicated too, because you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's the black rever centation, and we do crave
Speaker 1: those heroes and we want those people. But on top
Speaker 1: of that, then it's also the fact that like sort
Speaker 1: of living in this very patriarchal, misogynist culture, we believe,
Speaker 1: well I don't want to say we, but our culture
Speaker 1: believes the heteronormative male experience over everything else, the heteronormative
Speaker 1: white male experience over everything else. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: even just thinking about rape culture and thinking about um,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the rape is one of the least
Speaker 1: reported crimes sexual harassment. Yes, we have the me too movement,
Speaker 1: but think about the privileged, most powerful women had to
Speaker 1: come forward for this to matter. And this is something
Speaker 1: that's been happening to women across culture, across race, across religion,
Speaker 1: constantly consists, and it's still happening everywhere. We just suddenly
Speaker 1: care about it because it's these you know, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't get less painful for the survivors. But what it
Speaker 1: is is that suddenly we care because it's people we
Speaker 1: know and their celebrity and they've made it so So
Speaker 1: it's race coupled with our inability to believe in rape culture.
Speaker 1: I think for me, um, we have like the name
Speaker 1: of the podcast written on my notebook, but like my
Speaker 1: mom told me so much stuff, UM, Like when it
Speaker 1: came to like R Kelly, for example, we were not
Speaker 1: allowed to listen to that in our house, not at all,
Speaker 1: Like my mom was very acutely aware of the way
Speaker 1: that he treats young women. Continues to the predatory nature
Speaker 1: of our Kelly and everything that that stands for, and
Speaker 1: the way that you're signing on in a certain way
Speaker 1: by engaging with that content. Um. And so it hasn't
Speaker 1: been until recently I felt where my family wasn't the
Speaker 1: odd one out, Like suddenly when that came on at
Speaker 1: barbecues over this past summer, people were turning it off.
Speaker 1: And that's thanks to the work of folks like Jimmie
Speaker 1: Lemieux who are writing about those predatory Um, his predatory
Speaker 1: behavior which has gone on for decades now, and so UM,
Speaker 1: I think that my parents are always like very hyper feminist.
Speaker 1: My name is Blair because it's a unisex name, and
Speaker 1: you'll have an equal opportunity until you get to the door.
Speaker 1: They'll probably get their own podcast. Um. But it's it's
Speaker 1: really interesting like the way that my mom responded to that,
Speaker 1: Like if R. Kelly came on, she would just be
Speaker 1: like turn that off, like he's a good and you know,
Speaker 1: so much of that was true, and I felt like
Speaker 1: my mom's so ridiculous shielding me from rape culture. But
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't even think of it that way.
Speaker 1: I just thought like, well, my mom will let me
Speaker 1: to listen to happy people or I believe I can fly,
Speaker 1: like what the heck? But she was very adamant about
Speaker 1: us not engaging with it, um, And so I want
Speaker 1: to have a conversation with her about like the Cosby
Speaker 1: Show and how she feels about that now when she
Speaker 1: was so uh, when she cared so much about it
Speaker 1: was so important to her to keep us from that
Speaker 1: type of that that issue. I wanna say something that
Speaker 1: I'm not proud of now that I'm real woke. But
Speaker 1: I do live in Chicago. I'm originally Canadian, but I
Speaker 1: I moved to Chicago a long time ago. I'm not
Speaker 1: aren in the same year as you are a player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not although I can play. But in living in Chicago,
Speaker 1: I went to law school there. I was a lawyer
Speaker 1: for a second. Don't judge me. Um now I'm an
Speaker 1: artist artivist, but um, I did. I was hanging out
Speaker 1: with these women who were like, we're going to R.
Speaker 1: Kelly's house on South side of Chicago, and this was
Speaker 1: after the allegations were out, and um, we had to
Speaker 1: design waivers to in the car to enter the property
Speaker 1: and the premises. And you know, I didn't really I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I honestly, like I was such a part
Speaker 1: of and brainwashed by culture in the mainstream spaces, and
Speaker 1: you know, someone who deeply didn't even understand the concept
Speaker 1: of consent at the time, and the concept of just
Speaker 1: being a human in woman who is as agency in
Speaker 1: the world. And it's been years of processing and doing
Speaker 1: this kind of work and working with so many different
Speaker 1: kinds of people across intersections where I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that is not okay and I would never do that again.
Speaker 1: But that is a true thing that after those allegations
Speaker 1: came out, that was something you had to sign to
Speaker 1: get in the same space with this human person. Um
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I don't know. It's and and and
Speaker 1: and and I know plenty of people who did this
Speaker 1: day still will say yeah, but I was trapped in
Speaker 1: the closet too, and I'm like, okay, great R Kelly,
Speaker 1: you know, and they love they love what he stood for,
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, but he is this strong man,
Speaker 1: strong black man doing this work and he was framed.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm trying so hard to relate, relay
Speaker 1: this some way to to be fs. I know we
Speaker 1: got out the rails, but kind of SA let it happen.
Speaker 1: I keep on trying to and I'm like, I keep
Speaker 1: on pulling myself away because I'm like, that's that's not it. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's something that's important in this safe space.
Speaker 1: I'm the Queen of Spin, so watch this, okay, Um.
Speaker 1: I think that's something that's important to remember, like you know,
Speaker 1: in these safe spaces and in this idea of wokeness,
Speaker 1: is that we're all growing and changing, and that nobody
Speaker 1: was born woke, but we have to constantly like stay
Speaker 1: awoke and learn new information and affirm new identities as
Speaker 1: we like learn of them and as folks get new power,
Speaker 1: and I think that friendship is such an important space
Speaker 1: to practice that. So let's talk about friendship. I love
Speaker 1: it is. That was so good, that startful. I think
Speaker 1: that's real. Um. I think that for me in my
Speaker 1: best friendships, I know that they are strong when my
Speaker 1: friends can sort of I don't like, I don't like
Speaker 1: to use to use the phrase call me out, but
Speaker 1: call me in, And I will share in the in
Speaker 1: the spirit of like safe spaces, I will share a
Speaker 1: time where I was really intensely called in by someone
Speaker 1: and that was because they were my friend. And so
Speaker 1: if y'all watch that show Project runway way back when,
Speaker 1: like in the early days, it was the best, right,
Speaker 1: I think it's still on. But back in the day,
Speaker 1: it used to be like really popping. And there was
Speaker 1: a condescent on the show who used to use a
Speaker 1: he was a gay, white male. He used to use
Speaker 1: a like a transphobic slur right relatively often, like it
Speaker 1: was like kind of his thing. And you know, this
Speaker 1: was years ago. This was that was kind of newly woke.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's such a clever catch phrase,
Speaker 1: and so I thought I will use it to write
Speaker 1: like he's gay, Like it's probably tangentially related to the
Speaker 1: trans communicate my mind. You know, I was I was
Speaker 1: sort of figuring this out. I was still grappling with
Speaker 1: like what it means to be someone who is intersectional,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I thought like, oh, listen, this
Speaker 1: has to be an okay word to use. And it
Speaker 1: took a friend really pulling me aside and saying, you
Speaker 1: need to understand why this is stump and not okay.
Speaker 1: And honestly, you know, when someone calls you out for
Speaker 1: something or calls you in, you have that moment where
Speaker 1: you kind of freeze and you your first instinct is
Speaker 1: to be like, but I do so much for the community,
Speaker 1: like like you, like, I mean, everyone does it, and
Speaker 1: it's I had friends that right exactly, Like you go
Speaker 1: through this checklist of like why all of the reasons
Speaker 1: why you're the best if you've never made a mistake,
Speaker 1: and all the things you've done, and like here's here's
Speaker 1: all my receipts for like how I'm super awoke. But
Speaker 1: you have to sort of work through that and it's
Speaker 1: tough and it's scary, and it takes a lot of introspection.
Speaker 1: But he was right. He was super right to call
Speaker 1: me in and that was an act of friendship and love.
Speaker 1: And you know, that was probably scary for him and
Speaker 1: tough for him to do. And I'm so thankful that
Speaker 1: our friendship could sustain that kind of thing, because honestly,
Speaker 1: he made me reflect on something that I didn't even
Speaker 1: know I was doing. That was stuck and hurtful and
Speaker 1: like violent, right, Like I didn't even know. And that's
Speaker 1: not an excuse. But had he have not had enough
Speaker 1: respect for me and respect our friendship to do that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even want to know like what
Speaker 1: I would be saying now. I mean, it really was
Speaker 1: a moment of like, just because you are into Black
Speaker 1: Lives matter and into you know, our woke on Twitter
Speaker 1: or whatever, doesn't mean that you don't need to look
Speaker 1: at your own behavior and your own actions and your
Speaker 1: own ship. Oh my gosh. That's basically one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things in the world, is like, especially when you
Speaker 1: are like sort of someone who is like in these
Speaker 1: intersectional spaces, truly, everyone's like, no, you're gay, it's cool,
Speaker 1: you can say whatever you want. No, you're Muslim, you
Speaker 1: are cool. You're a pressed group. Oh you're South Asian.
Speaker 1: People hate you because you they think you're a terrorist,
Speaker 1: and it's like no, no, no, every single one of
Speaker 1: these groups, any of them is not necessarily as woke
Speaker 1: just by virtue of their identity. And it's so important
Speaker 1: to have some people and I honestly think that like
Speaker 1: one of the best things we can do as individuals,
Speaker 1: but also like through those friendships is transcending the noise
Speaker 1: and transcending all of that and finding that space. And
Speaker 1: I think friendship is one of the greatest ways we
Speaker 1: can do that. And you know, and one of the
Speaker 1: people I talked about was one of my collaborators, Lisa Donado,
Speaker 1: and like she is truly someone who I look and
Speaker 1: she's so different than me in the respect that like
Speaker 1: she's a white you know, Montana born queer lady. Um.
Speaker 1: But one of the things we connect on is heart,
Speaker 1: and we feel deeply. We cry a lot together, um.
Speaker 1: And and it's that thing where it's like, is it
Speaker 1: okay to cry? Yes, of course, it's okay to cry.
Speaker 1: Is it okay to have these deep connections with other people? Yes,
Speaker 1: of course it's okay. And through that we you know
Speaker 1: sometimes and this is something that as a queer person,
Speaker 1: when you have an intense female connection with someone. It's
Speaker 1: really easy to think or other people to say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you must be attracted to them and you want to
Speaker 1: have sex with them. No, no, I don't want to
Speaker 1: have sex with them. I just connect with your soul.
Speaker 1: And I believe in all mates that are not all romantic.
Speaker 1: I believe in that deep, deep spiritual connection with the
Speaker 1: human being because you just move in the same way.
Speaker 1: And she is one of those people for me and
Speaker 1: is one of my my greatest creative collaborator, and UM
Speaker 1: makes me a better person. And actually it's up by Southwest.
Speaker 1: I feel like has saved me from some you know,
Speaker 1: some tragedies already. I think UM for me. One point
Speaker 1: where I've really had to like evaluate my frame of
Speaker 1: understanding around race especially was UM in a way where
Speaker 1: I don't even know, like I had areas of like bias,
Speaker 1: I guess, like valid distrust um of folks in the
Speaker 1: white community, you know. But I was at a Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter protest and in Battern region and I got arrested,
Speaker 1: and UM all that happened. UM, And then I got
Speaker 1: into the police vehicle and I we're all giving our names,
Speaker 1: and you have to give your name, your your sex
Speaker 1: and your race, UM, and people are you know, giving
Speaker 1: their name and then like I'm hearing blo bloa, white
Speaker 1: blo blah, white blo bo and I'm, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: I'm the only woman of color in this car UM.
Speaker 1: And so it was different from what you know, what
Speaker 1: you would imagine people who are getting arrested at a
Speaker 1: protest would be, you know, potentially especially around the murder
Speaker 1: of a black man at the hands of police. UM.
Speaker 1: And so I had to like umpack that as I was,
Speaker 1: you know, getting were we went to Baton Rouge Parish prison, UM,
Speaker 1: and I got really like to know these people. And
Speaker 1: a lot of the women were in social social work
Speaker 1: and social justice, were educators who are working with young
Speaker 1: kids every day who look like the kids that are
Speaker 1: getting you know, killed either through community or you know,
Speaker 1: through gun violence or um by state violence. And so
Speaker 1: that was really interesting for me. UM. And something that
Speaker 1: really resonated with me was my friend Taylor, who we've
Speaker 1: become very close now, Like after you go through that
Speaker 1: kind of experience, apparently you get very close with people. UM.
Speaker 1: And so with Taylor, she was there because her father
Speaker 1: and grandfather were very against integration and so her grandfather.
Speaker 1: You know, there's still probably black and white pictures of
Speaker 1: him yelling at people who are trying to into great schools.
Speaker 1: And so that's that very heavy on her heart. And
Speaker 1: we're both women of faith. She's Catholic, and she felt
Speaker 1: like she had to do something to you know, repent
Speaker 1: for the sin of her family being racist. So she
Speaker 1: was in the streets and she ended up going to
Speaker 1: um to Standing Rock and like working with the folks
Speaker 1: in the Native community there. And I think she's still
Speaker 1: up in South Dakota. So she's like totally like change
Speaker 1: the trajectory of her life and realizing like I have
Speaker 1: this privilege, like I have a trust fund, Like let
Speaker 1: me change the trust trajectory of my life and use
Speaker 1: this to advance justice because my family hasn't done what
Speaker 1: we needed to be doing. And in my mind, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking like wow, like what is it? Like, why don't
Speaker 1: I think this couldn't even exist? And so that was
Speaker 1: a really beautiful moment of growth for me because I
Speaker 1: realized I was shutting myself off from a whole community
Speaker 1: despite myself being half white. Let's take a quick break
Speaker 1: and we're back. Um, So the data around friendships actually
Speaker 1: shows that in spaces that are like workspaces or activist
Speaker 1: spaces or community building spaces, friendship like you just described
Speaker 1: was actually super super important. And so I know that
Speaker 1: for myself. Um, something about me is that before I
Speaker 1: ever got into the podcast media sport of game, i'm
Speaker 1: as an activist and an organizer. And before that, I
Speaker 1: was a teacher and I taught at Howard University in
Speaker 1: d C. Go by you. You know, I went to
Speaker 1: Howard Law School for seven weeks. Okay, we need to
Speaker 1: get this story. If you've got you like, I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it, um. But so you know, Howard is
Speaker 1: this place where it's a it's an HBCU historically black college,
Speaker 1: and it's a kind of place where the students are activists, right, Like,
Speaker 1: these are young people who really feel compelled to make
Speaker 1: change in their community. So I was, I was a
Speaker 1: lecturer there, but I also felt like I was kind
Speaker 1: of an organizer, Like I taught classes on social change.
Speaker 1: It was a kind of kind of classes where you
Speaker 1: read like rules for radicals and then use it to
Speaker 1: write a paper or something like that. Right, So the
Speaker 1: law schools are not like that. Yeah, it's not. It's not.
Speaker 1: And you know, for four of years, Howard was my
Speaker 1: radical black organizing home. It was like where I felt
Speaker 1: where I became myself, right, these young black and brown
Speaker 1: students who felt so compelled to change the world, like
Speaker 1: they were there, they were my home, right, It just
Speaker 1: felt like home. And it was the best job I
Speaker 1: ever had. I was that like crazy teacher lady who
Speaker 1: had a license plate that reads love to Teach, like literally,
Speaker 1: um so that was me. I was that person and
Speaker 1: I loved it. But it was also the kind of
Speaker 1: job or like I knew, you know, without a PhD,
Speaker 1: I would never be able to move up. The pay
Speaker 1: was kind of jankie like, it had its downsides, and
Speaker 1: so I ended up getting a job at a mostly
Speaker 1: white organizing training organization called the New Organizing Institute that
Speaker 1: basically trains Democrats organizing organizing like organizing principles on how
Speaker 1: to win elections them. So it's really tied to the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. It's super mainstream. It's a great organization. But
Speaker 1: it was very different from my Howard home. And so
Speaker 1: I wrestled with this choice of do I leave Howard
Speaker 1: my sort of you know, I leave the communities, leave
Speaker 1: my community, yeah, or do I go to this sort
Speaker 1: of super white, super mainstream, you know, Democratic Party funded.
Speaker 1: Not that there's anything wrong with that, but like that
Speaker 1: that that that meant something to me. It felt a
Speaker 1: kind of way that you know, most of our money
Speaker 1: was from the DNC UM and I left. I went
Speaker 1: to that job and the first week was hell, right,
Speaker 1: Like I was like this black girl who really really
Speaker 1: desperately missed home. I felt like, you know, I felt
Speaker 1: like I had moved or something. And I remember riding
Speaker 1: my bike past Howard University and like having to get
Speaker 1: off because I was crying as I missed it so much.
Speaker 1: But the thing that kind of reaffirmed the importance of
Speaker 1: what you were just speaking about is the day that
Speaker 1: they announced that they would not be that there were
Speaker 1: not that George Zimmerman would not be getting, you know,
Speaker 1: charges for murder. I was working at that organization and
Speaker 1: there was this I live in d C, and there
Speaker 1: was this sporadic activist moment where all of these organizers
Speaker 1: went to the park, Malcolm X Park in d C
Speaker 1: to protest, and it was just this spontaneous rally where
Speaker 1: everyone was just it was a powder keg of anger
Speaker 1: and we were just piste off. It's like no other
Speaker 1: way to say it. D C was piste off and
Speaker 1: I'll never forget, you know, walking on the streets and
Speaker 1: bumping into four of my white female co workers at
Speaker 1: this protest, and I burst into tears. I thought, you
Speaker 1: guys are y'all are here, and it just felt like
Speaker 1: they were here for me. And it felt like I
Speaker 1: had spent the entire week crying about this choice to
Speaker 1: leave Howard, really beating myself up about leaving my like
Speaker 1: scrappy black lead radical organizing home for this very polished,
Speaker 1: you know, button up. It wasn't that bad, but like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Uh, when I when I
Speaker 1: saw them there, it was like they showed up for me.
Speaker 1: And I can't even describe what that felt like for me.
Speaker 1: And so what you're speaking about that that moment where
Speaker 1: it reaffirms like, hey, we can be friends and come
Speaker 1: from these different backgrounds and we can cross these boundaries,
Speaker 1: and that's so important for how we show up, how
Speaker 1: we show up free, how they're so important. And definitely
Speaker 1: it was a really important moment in my life. I
Speaker 1: felt the same way like when um I started like
Speaker 1: I had written all these articles, I'm weird where like
Speaker 1: if I'm having like for like friends with coworkers, I
Speaker 1: will be very silent about everything I'm doing and then
Speaker 1: you'll be like Blair, I read an article about how
Speaker 1: you're scared to go home on the train with your
Speaker 1: job on, and I was like, yeah, you know, personal
Speaker 1: stuff saying it's like you'll do things it's like anonymity.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm sorry to but but it's just
Speaker 1: like you'll kind of I very much feel that way.
Speaker 1: My workspace is like I go in to do my work,
Speaker 1: into be an excellent teammate, into do my work very well,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh you have a podcast or
Speaker 1: oh you did this, or you're gonna be at south
Speaker 1: By but not for the company, like you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like it's very much those moments. And
Speaker 1: so when then you have people who I think the
Speaker 1: fear for me is like rejection, Like what if people
Speaker 1: think that I'm weird you know, um, And what if
Speaker 1: people find I'm dealing with this stuff and they don't
Speaker 1: feel like they can be on the team with me,
Speaker 1: Um because I'm too distracted. Um I've gotten that before.
Speaker 1: But you know, too distracted by oppression to do the
Speaker 1: job whate um and which is valid? I have a
Speaker 1: d D anyway, so uh when I um, but no,
Speaker 1: when I wrote this article for Vice about how I
Speaker 1: stopped wearing a job right after Trump got elected, my
Speaker 1: coworker had read it because we, like, you know, when
Speaker 1: you were I worked at Planned Parenthood in the communications office,
Speaker 1: so everybody has media alerts for everybody else to make
Speaker 1: sure that you know there's no scandals, but also to
Speaker 1: like support the good work you're doing. Um. And so
Speaker 1: somebody got the media alert and then had my friend
Speaker 1: Laurie actually and then send sent out an email to
Speaker 1: everybody on in our department like, hey, if Blair's going home, like,
Speaker 1: ask her if she needs like a walk to the
Speaker 1: to the train. And so that was really powerful for
Speaker 1: me because I didn't like fathom that that would exist,
Speaker 1: like I had just converted to Islam, like I didn't
Speaker 1: even I didn't even know what support looked like. And
Speaker 1: somebody who cared about me, and now we're really good friends,
Speaker 1: like we'd met in the workplace, like when that's not
Speaker 1: supposed to exist, like you know, deep friendships in the workplace,
Speaker 1: like in the midst of all of the election stuff, um,
Speaker 1: and somebody just to be like I care about you
Speaker 1: and we want to take care of you. Like that
Speaker 1: was really important for me, um and really transformed what
Speaker 1: I feel. What you know, we talked we talked about
Speaker 1: TV at the beginning, but it's it's rare that you
Speaker 1: see that, like again with the Bold Type, which apparently
Speaker 1: I stand for, Like I love the bold type. But
Speaker 1: they have these three women whom are working in the
Speaker 1: same place, and they're constantly dealing with what does it
Speaker 1: mean when you get a promotion but I don't, What
Speaker 1: does it mean when you get a raised but I don't?
Speaker 1: What does it mean when you don't feel safe walking home?
Speaker 1: But I do? And so the way that privilege operates
Speaker 1: amongst these friendships, even in the workplace, it's something that's
Speaker 1: been really beautiful to see. I love that. Oh I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, like it's there's something so I mean,
Speaker 1: there is this thing like thinking about friend shows, for
Speaker 1: thinking about these spaces where you know, when we talked
Speaker 1: about like, oh you know, Fazzi, can you do this podcast?
Speaker 1: Like I was like, Okay, well, why the thing with women?
Speaker 1: Like right now we're in this moment of time where
Speaker 1: women are coming together, but The thing is women do
Speaker 1: come together, but it's not cool or sexy for us
Speaker 1: to come together because when we come together, we're either lesbians,
Speaker 1: which by the way, is awesome, Yeah, go lesbians, but
Speaker 1: like not cool in some spaces many spaces um, but
Speaker 1: also seen as um not great for the male gaze,
Speaker 1: and not great for men and the heteronormative man. And
Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of what it comes down
Speaker 1: to sometimes, is that Why are is it us looking
Speaker 1: out for each other? Not cool or safe or accepted
Speaker 1: or beautiful. We're talking about wages, like talking about wages
Speaker 1: idea of being quiet about how much you make. Like
Speaker 1: there's an amazing organization called Ladies Get Paid. Look them
Speaker 1: up if you can. They're they're disrupting so much that
Speaker 1: people are like adamant to shut them down. But they're
Speaker 1: all about like talking to women about what it means
Speaker 1: to talk about wages and like you just got our rays,
Speaker 1: what does that mean for me? When we were at
Speaker 1: playing parent Head, Lorie and I UM, when we were
Speaker 1: talking about how much we make, and I was like, oh, what,
Speaker 1: like you I know that you are here way later
Speaker 1: than I am, Like, let's talk about that. So we
Speaker 1: both went to our manager and then Laurie ended up
Speaker 1: getting a raise, and so this stuff can't happen. And
Speaker 1: it's like you you can't just be in it for yourself.
Speaker 1: I mean like sometimes economically you have to be, but
Speaker 1: if you're in a position of privilege, then sometimes that
Speaker 1: friendship needs to be an accomplished and where you're looking at, well,
Speaker 1: my success is inherently tied to your success. So let's
Speaker 1: fight together. I love that. I swear I didn't plan this.
Speaker 1: I also worked up planned parenthood in d C. When
Speaker 1: you were in New York. The same exact thing happened
Speaker 1: to me with my I guess work wife, where she
Speaker 1: told me how much she made when we were doing
Speaker 1: very similar jobs and I was like, well, if she
Speaker 1: makes that, I should make that. And I got a
Speaker 1: raise because because she told me how much she made,
Speaker 1: and she's a white woman, and I think she saw
Speaker 1: it as a way of being like, yo, just so
Speaker 1: you know, here's what I make. When you're in the
Speaker 1: negotiation process, you know have that information. And honestly, for
Speaker 1: the dudes out there, tell women how much you make.
Speaker 1: This is unrelated, but not like in a braggy way,
Speaker 1: but how much wakes they can get their money. Well,
Speaker 1: I was just in the panel, um that had you know,
Speaker 1: the president of UH, Warner Brothers, the head of TNT,
Speaker 1: the showrunner for Claus, one of the actresses from Clause.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I should have been there. It was
Speaker 1: amazing two days ago. It was an amazing panel. But
Speaker 1: one of the things, uh, and I cannot remember which
Speaker 1: of the amazing women on the panel said this, but
Speaker 1: she took out the men first. She took out the
Speaker 1: men because a the women were not making that much
Speaker 1: and we're not like at that level. But also, you know,
Speaker 1: there's this fear of sharing because it's like, oh, well
Speaker 1: there's only one spot. There's only one spot for anybody.
Speaker 1: There's only one spot for a woman I want it
Speaker 1: versus someone else wanting it, Like there's only one spot
Speaker 1: for a quer Muslim on a panel like the unicorns
Speaker 1: right now, you know. But like, but that also is
Speaker 1: a testament where we're at and to you as well.
Speaker 1: But but for that, she took out the men, and
Speaker 1: the men told her it wasn't easy. It took a minute.
Speaker 1: The men told her how much they made. And so
Speaker 1: when she went in for her promotion, she had the
Speaker 1: highest level of the male salary, and that is what
Speaker 1: she ended up making. Yeah, but it took that and
Speaker 1: it's powerful and it's beautiful. And the things we don't
Speaker 1: talk about our money sometimes our love, our relationships, and
Speaker 1: these are the most important things that affects us the most.
Speaker 1: And so like who are best friends? Like I think
Speaker 1: that can transcend, that can be multiple different kinds of
Speaker 1: people in space. Yeah, And something that you even said
Speaker 1: earlier about how it hasn't been sexy, it hasn't been
Speaker 1: attractive to kind of show sisterhood or to show friendship
Speaker 1: with in the workspace. I feel like I think a
Speaker 1: lot about why that is, especially being a millennial. Like
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say the car's word, right, it's like
Speaker 1: minis thank you millennials. Thank you millennials your understanding intersectionality
Speaker 1: than most people I know exactly. And so there's two
Speaker 1: things I think about when you're a millennial and you're
Speaker 1: trying to have a career. One thing is for me,
Speaker 1: it's like we're so driven in we are we want
Speaker 1: to have impact and we want to do it as
Speaker 1: quick as we can. Sometimes that's a bad thing, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just like an earnest desire to get something done.
Speaker 1: But then the second part of that is because that
Speaker 1: that makes things complicated is that we also know how
Speaker 1: to get things done very quickly, as opposed to maybe
Speaker 1: a job or a task or a goal that may
Speaker 1: have taken someone who who had been through the workforce
Speaker 1: a lot longer than I had. They have their own
Speaker 1: process for getting things done. But there's a chance that
Speaker 1: mine may be a little bit quicker just because of
Speaker 1: like the technology or the way that I think about
Speaker 1: getting things done, um, or like what I see as
Speaker 1: my resources. And I think that in those moments, friendships
Speaker 1: can become sticky. Um, whether it's you're talking about wage,
Speaker 1: whether you are bouncing back and forth, how should I
Speaker 1: communicate this message with someone who I'd like to have
Speaker 1: a cold email with or this really popular cool person
Speaker 1: who I want to work for it happens to follow
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, who I feel like I can reach
Speaker 1: out to, Like, there's just I just did that with you.
Speaker 1: You were you were the popular cool person. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: and it's like and it's but your approach right was like, well,
Speaker 1: I know who Bridge is and I think she's doing
Speaker 1: really cool work. And it's like you know, I just
Speaker 1: really think that in these moments, like to kind of
Speaker 1: bring it back to why work friendships are so important.
Speaker 1: It's because while we're trying to navigate this space and
Speaker 1: when sometimes there are a lot of chairs at the
Speaker 1: table and sometimes there aren't, I always really try to
Speaker 1: remember that the career stuff is really cool and it's
Speaker 1: really popping and it's really great, but that at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I really do just like want
Speaker 1: a friendly, you know, like I really do just want
Speaker 1: to have a friend, and like that, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: really the end of my sent here to make friends. Yes, friend,
Speaker 1: you need somebody, I think especially it's like a millennial colors,
Speaker 1: like you need somebody that you can call them be
Speaker 1: like okay, you're in that meeting. Was that racist? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like was it queer phobic? Like with me, it's like
Speaker 1: a raw shock test, like who knows what what the
Speaker 1: ism was? And so like that's what Laurie was again,
Speaker 1: like Laurie Rodriguez was for me. Um working at Planned Parenthood,
Speaker 1: it was rarely you know, it was a great place
Speaker 1: to bring your full self. But again, we have these
Speaker 1: external meetings and sometimes things would go sideways and it
Speaker 1: can really be uh, especially when you're dealing with something
Speaker 1: for the first time, like those moments in the workforce
Speaker 1: where you've been told your whole life it's gonna be
Speaker 1: hard to be a woman, and then you get there
Speaker 1: and you're like, wow, I'm invisible to men like that
Speaker 1: type of thing, and so it's it's just great to
Speaker 1: have somebody who's been there before or who can give
Speaker 1: you like an um what's it called, who can back
Speaker 1: you up, somebody who can give you an objective opinion
Speaker 1: about what you've gone through and really just like be like, hey,
Speaker 1: as a friend, let me, you know, tell you this
Speaker 1: email sideways. This email is good, you know, just somebody
Speaker 1: to be there for you totally. I want to tell
Speaker 1: one quick anecdote and then I want to kick it
Speaker 1: over to questions. UM, I think something that really speaks
Speaker 1: to what all of y'all are saying is a little
Speaker 1: bit of a weird example. But do you all remember
Speaker 1: back in the day, how these two black powerhouse models,
Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks were always sort of like
Speaker 1: they were pitted against each other, like there was this
Speaker 1: big feud. It was always like Tyra hates Naomi. Nao
Speaker 1: me it hates Tyra, and it was this real thing
Speaker 1: in in the in the media that was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: they hate each other, they're very catty. I'll never forget
Speaker 1: when Tyra had her show, Naomi Campbell came on her
Speaker 1: show and I thought, Oh my god, this is it,
Speaker 1: Like they're gonna have it out. It's gonna be juicy,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be catty. They might physically fight, like what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen? And I was like, totally that person who
Speaker 1: wanted to see what you were just speaking about right
Speaker 1: like each other. Yeah, I was like, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be good, Like I was, could not wait. And the
Speaker 1: conversation that ensued was really about how they both felt
Speaker 1: pressured to buy the modeling industry to hate each other
Speaker 1: because there was only one slot for a black model,
Speaker 1: And the conversation wasn't about this like juicy catty feud.
Speaker 1: It was about how this up racist industry profited off
Speaker 1: of people thinking that they hated each other, and how
Speaker 1: they really didn't hate each other, but they were hitting
Speaker 1: against each other purposefully so that they you know, because
Speaker 1: that's how the industry works. And it really made me think, like,
Speaker 1: why why was I so excited for this like juicy
Speaker 1: cat bite that actually was that really meaningful conversation. I
Speaker 1: mean it's sort of I mean it goes back even further, right,
Speaker 1: I mean like the Betty and Joan show, like that
Speaker 1: television show when you watch it and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: these two women were literally pitted against each other by
Speaker 1: an entire industry of men, you know who who were saying,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be really good for our ratings, this
Speaker 1: is gonna be really good for sexiness, for the story.
Speaker 1: And and I think part of it is that we, yes,
Speaker 1: we want that one slot, like you know, you know,
Speaker 1: like we want the one and I hear there was
Speaker 1: another career Muslim. I would have objected right now, but
Speaker 1: it is. It's crazy because it's like in some ways,
Speaker 1: in some ways being a queer Muslim. For me, people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, you're a unicorn, you're special, you're sexy.
Speaker 1: We want to talk to you. And friends may have
Speaker 1: said that before, but a larger audience didn't give a
Speaker 1: ship before, and then so there's space for one. And
Speaker 1: then for me, like seeing that you're a career Muslim
Speaker 1: and you've been you know, Muslim longer than I have.
Speaker 1: Some in Muslim for like three years. That means I'm older, no,
Speaker 1: but that you've been in the Indus from crack. But
Speaker 1: seeing that you've been you know, you've been out even vocal,
Speaker 1: like you've been doing this thing. It's a relief to
Speaker 1: me because it makes me feel like I don't have
Speaker 1: to do it on my own and I'm not like
Speaker 1: the only one, and so it's so then it's so
Speaker 1: powerful just to see like because like you have a
Speaker 1: lot of folks like I have a lot of folks
Speaker 1: looking up to me. I'm sure like you, I look
Speaker 1: up to you. Like it's really it means so much
Speaker 1: when you see somebody who's like, Okay, they've done it,
Speaker 1: they've survived. I can go, I can keep going. I
Speaker 1: just had that experience. So I went to Berlin, l
Speaker 1: A and Berlin the first time ever, and I watched
Speaker 1: the m I A documentary m I A for people
Speaker 1: who don't know is it like paper yet? Like there
Speaker 1: you go, there you go. This is amazing Sri Luncan
Speaker 1: like woman, British Sri Luncan woman. And I watched your
Speaker 1: documentary and I was like, oh my god, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize how sad I am about They're not being positive
Speaker 1: South Asian strong role models who you know role models
Speaker 1: are friends too, write like it's like in in in
Speaker 1: because not all of us get the privilege and opportunity
Speaker 1: to be in spaces whether people look like us. So
Speaker 1: when there people aren't who don't look like us. Yes,
Speaker 1: now we have social media, but we look to faces
Speaker 1: and M I A was like this face, but in
Speaker 1: many ways society and the press were like by girl,
Speaker 1: like by you did this, you're wrapping and you're not black?
Speaker 1: By bye? Or you flipped off the media at you know,
Speaker 1: uh being your world? Dare you dare everybody? Like? I
Speaker 1: think that's so so frequently even when you do get
Speaker 1: to a point of being a role model or like
Speaker 1: in the workplace, particularly when you like like initiative and
Speaker 1: you take initiative, there's so many people who not maybe
Speaker 1: because like they want to take you down, but you're
Speaker 1: you're deviating from the norm, and so people get very
Speaker 1: upset and they want to put you back into that
Speaker 1: box that you stepped out of. And so I think
Speaker 1: with M I A as well, like they want to
Speaker 1: put you back in that place that you don't even
Speaker 1: belong in. And so that's why I think role models
Speaker 1: are so important and how best friends can support you
Speaker 1: as you start to break down those expectations. I love
Speaker 1: it very well, said, let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: we're back. So I want to kick it over to
Speaker 1: the audience for some questions, questions, comments, what do we got?
Speaker 1: What do y'all think? Hi? And where you're from? I'm Alex.
Speaker 1: I actually just recently moved to the Austin area. Um So,
Speaker 1: first of all, y'all are great, thank you fairly enjoyed
Speaker 1: all this so far. Um I I feel like I've
Speaker 1: ascilate between feeling like I do nothing about being an
Speaker 1: ally and then wanting to drop my whole life and
Speaker 1: quit everything and like go fall activism. So I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you all could speak to like what does
Speaker 1: a middle ground look like for being an alley? Like
Speaker 1: how can I be helpful and still like follow my
Speaker 1: other dreams and other passions? And I think like I
Speaker 1: have friends who are like on all parts of that spectrum,
Speaker 1: like my friend Taylor, who was like Blair, I think
Speaker 1: I'm dropping out of school. She was at tu Wane
Speaker 1: and I was like, girl, you're wild, call me later,
Speaker 1: and then she like Blair dropped out of school. Now
Speaker 1: I'm in North Dakota finding the pipeline from being built,
Speaker 1: And I was like, girl, okay, Like, so that's one path, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: because we're friends, you know what I mean. But um, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have done that, but
Speaker 1: I support her. Um. I think it's all about the
Speaker 1: access you have, right, Like if you tell somebody, um,
Speaker 1: you know there's a protest happening right now here in
Speaker 1: Austin about veganism, and so that's a very you know,
Speaker 1: important dance that a lot of people have. But also like,
Speaker 1: is your movement work making best table is cheaper for
Speaker 1: families who can't afford the food and nutrients required to
Speaker 1: be a healthy vegan, you know, so thinking about the
Speaker 1: way that your approach can be more accessible. So I
Speaker 1: think that everybody has a role in the movement. Finding
Speaker 1: out what you're good at and realizing that your path
Speaker 1: isn't separate from an activist path, like find ways to
Speaker 1: build activism into what you're doing. Um, had I finished
Speaker 1: law school, then I would have been looking at doing
Speaker 1: pro bono cases with corporate cases or whatever I would
Speaker 1: have been doing. I was definitely gonna drop out everybody
Speaker 1: knew it, um, but like just figuring out ways, like
Speaker 1: if you're in a position of hiring or if you're not,
Speaker 1: and your friend is like making sure that she understands,
Speaker 1: like not throwing out names that aren't white, like just
Speaker 1: making sure that you're being a person that is disrupting
Speaker 1: the spaces around you that are toxic. Because even my mom,
Speaker 1: when I first started wearing his job, she was like
Speaker 1: no daughter of mine and literally took the job off
Speaker 1: of my head and when we were in the grocery store,
Speaker 1: and so I can't just be like, fine, mom, you're
Speaker 1: not in the movement. She's my mom, you know, And
Speaker 1: so it was upon me then to explain to her
Speaker 1: what the hit job meant to me, to like, you know,
Speaker 1: talk through her, talk through the biases she had. And
Speaker 1: that's something we can all do. And there's very much
Speaker 1: activism in our daily lives, whether that's giving your friends
Speaker 1: reading material, challenging somebody when they, you know, call somebody
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, or when they don't understand something. So
Speaker 1: I think that's very middle ground. But we can always
Speaker 1: level up, you know, like it doesn't always have to
Speaker 1: be you donating money. Not everybody can do that, but
Speaker 1: if you care about voting rights, looking at what it
Speaker 1: means to register folks to vote in your in your
Speaker 1: apartment building, or what it means to drive folks to
Speaker 1: the polls or volunteers. So I think that there are
Speaker 1: so many different ways and you don't have to drop
Speaker 1: that everything. It's so true. I mean, it's like it's
Speaker 1: like the activism takes on this like really hefty, like
Speaker 1: heavy labels sometimes, but it literally is the time, I
Speaker 1: honestly believe, like when people are like I want to
Speaker 1: change the world, like we none of us can actually
Speaker 1: change the world. But those tiny tiny things that we do,
Speaker 1: not alone, not alone, and and and those tiny things
Speaker 1: that we do that create connection, create empathy, that calls
Speaker 1: somebody out, those moments like if we all did them,
Speaker 1: if we all did one of those today literally everybody
Speaker 1: is south by Southwest. If everybody called somebody out that
Speaker 1: was doing something, do she or not cool and race
Speaker 1: like paked up some trash or recycled because that's not
Speaker 1: really happening. Um, I just had to say that we
Speaker 1: had a conversation about that. Um. But but honestly, that
Speaker 1: has huge ripple impact and it's it's important. It really is.
Speaker 1: And I think about like even like we're talking about, well,
Speaker 1: I think a lot about the me too movement. You know,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of men who say, how do
Speaker 1: I participate? And it's like, well, listen past the mic
Speaker 1: and also express your support. You know, that's that's huge
Speaker 1: because the power is in those groups. And so I
Speaker 1: think recognizing your privilege and your power and we all
Speaker 1: have it, all of us have it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: have privilege of living in a big city. I have
Speaker 1: privilege of living being born in a family that educated me. Um.
Speaker 1: Although I'm still paying off my law school even though
Speaker 1: I am an actor artist. Um it sucks. Um but
Speaker 1: but but but you know, we all have privilege in
Speaker 1: some way whatever that isn't recognizing that and owning up
Speaker 1: to that and and speaking out about it. I think
Speaker 1: that matters. I love it. I think we have time
Speaker 1: for maybe one more quick question anyone or comment or
Speaker 1: how use about your work wife or your favorite bff
Speaker 1: workwife story? Oh god, question, how much time do you
Speaker 1: have lady? How's your favorite about your mom? My favorite
Speaker 1: thing about such a good question. I could talk all day.
Speaker 1: My mom is amazing. My favorite thing about my mom
Speaker 1: is how warm she is. She's the kind of person
Speaker 1: that she could be in a room with someone who's
Speaker 1: had the worst day ever and make them open up
Speaker 1: and make them smile. She's the warmest person you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: She's so she just has that bubbly thing where people,
Speaker 1: I think people people like want to talk to her.
Speaker 1: She's that kind of person. Um. Well, a lot of
Speaker 1: my work is actually inspired by my mother. So if
Speaker 1: you ever look me up, you'll learn about that. There's
Speaker 1: a movie, there's a play, there's another movie coming out.
Speaker 1: But my mother, to me, one of the things I
Speaker 1: love about us is, um, you know I look like this,
Speaker 1: which is you know Bruno Mars meets the karate kid. Um, yeah, slash,
Speaker 1: maybe a little Hallieberry and um. But my mother is
Speaker 1: you know, she wears her job, she wears shell Varkami
Speaker 1: is very become a very you know, uh, introverted Pakistani
Speaker 1: Muslim human woman. Um. But and so if you look
Speaker 1: at us, we look like complete opposites. But honestly, the
Speaker 1: reason I don't ever look at anybody's exterior and think
Speaker 1: I understand them, Um, it's because I know that if
Speaker 1: you look at my mother and I, we are exactly
Speaker 1: the same, although we look so different. Um when people
Speaker 1: are like your energy, you're this, you're this, you'r smile
Speaker 1: blah blah, and I'm like, well, that's my mom, my
Speaker 1: mom and I And it took some work to get
Speaker 1: there to see that. And um, but I I hope
Speaker 1: my mom is listening. She's definitely not. She's definitely not.
Speaker 1: It was my birthday yesterday, so she might be like
Speaker 1: with Falsia right now. Um, and she's not thinking that
Speaker 1: I'm doing this panel and anyway, but um, it's um,
Speaker 1: she's She's a gift to me and I love her
Speaker 1: very much. So one of the things that I now
Speaker 1: that I am no longer in school, um, I think
Speaker 1: about I think about how much time I spent away
Speaker 1: from my mom because I was in school. And it
Speaker 1: seems like such a like such a way of simplifying
Speaker 1: or kind of like simplifying the situation, But I really
Speaker 1: do think about it a lot. And her proximity to me,
Speaker 1: to compassion and to literally just being a nice person
Speaker 1: reminds me how much nicer I need to be to others,
Speaker 1: and like her just consistent kindness really has just blown
Speaker 1: me away. It really blows me away. Whenever I'm around her.
Speaker 1: For me, my mom has like been through so many changes.
Speaker 1: I changed my name, I converted to Islam, I came
Speaker 1: out as a lesbian. Then I came out as by
Speaker 1: per sexual, and then I came out on national television
Speaker 1: and I got tattooed. Like she's just been like go
Speaker 1: Blair except for the job, but now she's cool about it. Um.
Speaker 1: So I think that my mom, she's just like she
Speaker 1: rolls with the punches and she calls it like she
Speaker 1: sees it, and she battles the trolls in my mentions
Speaker 1: and like and in real life, like when I got um,
Speaker 1: when I was getting her as, she made a video
Speaker 1: and posted it on Twitter and it was just like
Speaker 1: leave my baby alone. Um. You can follow her at
Speaker 1: Chrissy Lupo on Twitter. She's hilarious. Um. But she's just
Speaker 1: like so real and there's like not a mean spirited
Speaker 1: bone in her body. Like she does make mistakes like
Speaker 1: we all do, but she's willing to learn and grow
Speaker 1: and go with all the you know, just roll with
Speaker 1: the punches. I swear I didn't plan this, but learn
Speaker 1: and grow together is the unofficial motto of this podcast.
Speaker 1: So well, that's a perfect place to wrap my amazing
Speaker 1: panelist for being here. Y'all are all amazing and thanks
Speaker 1: to y'all, I we couldn't have done the style. Y'all go.
Speaker 1: Thanks Siminthy listeners. What's your relationship like with your work wife?
Speaker 1: Did this episode make you want to call her up
Speaker 1: in a thank her for being a friend? Let us know.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never
Speaker 1: Told You, on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always,
Speaker 1: we love your emails at mom stuff at how stuff
Speaker 1: works dot com.