Speaker 1: Yea, let's open today show with a tiny bit of trivia.
Speaker 1: My name is Ben and I was actually born in Nashville.
Speaker 1: My name is Noel, and I have been to Nashville once,
Speaker 1: but my driver's license expired, so I didn't get to
Speaker 1: go to any of the sweet honky tonks. Oh that's
Speaker 1: a shame, you know. We should go to Nashville together.
Speaker 1: We should take a road trip. It's a pretty swell place.
Speaker 1: You'd like it, No, I. I like the street. I
Speaker 1: bought a hot dog. All my friends went to Robert's
Speaker 1: Western World, which is apparently the spot where all of
Speaker 1: the grizzled Nashville session guys just show up at two
Speaker 1: in the afternoon and play until three in the morning,
Speaker 1: just like you do. And I really felt like I
Speaker 1: missed out on something. But I'll tell what I did
Speaker 1: not miss out on. That I recently returned from a
Speaker 1: work trip to Los Angeles, where I happened upon a
Speaker 1: little place called the Museum of Death. Oh, yes, you went?
Speaker 1: Did you refuse to refuse? And I'm not going to
Speaker 1: talk too much about this, but they do not allow
Speaker 1: photos for good reason. Um. It's quite grizzly, quite upsetting. Um,
Speaker 1: and they had a whole section with funereal artifacts, UM,
Speaker 1: embalming tools, and and they had a quite impressive collection
Speaker 1: of coffins um. And I only bring this up because
Speaker 1: today we're talking about digging up bodies. That's that is
Speaker 1: the base level for my segue. Right. So for everybody wondering, Ben,
Speaker 1: why are you giving us personal information about Nashville? Noel,
Speaker 1: why are you telling us about uh coffin Rey, It's
Speaker 1: it's because those two things do have uh an alarming
Speaker 1: and we think fascinating connection point here in today's episode, owed,
Speaker 1: if you visit the Tennessee State Capital in Nashville, you'll
Speaker 1: see President Andrew Johnson, who's got sort of this wind
Speaker 1: swept thing, kind of prefiguring Claire al herbal Essences commercials,
Speaker 1: a bit of a fabio look if we're being honest.
Speaker 1: And then you have the other Andrew. That would be
Speaker 1: Jackson sitting astride his trustees steed and rearing back kind
Speaker 1: of pose, looking a little bit wind swept himself, but
Speaker 1: with a little bit more of an edge to him,
Speaker 1: a little pinash. I believe he's tipping his hat. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing, folks, Neither of those presidents are actually buried
Speaker 1: at the Tennessee State Capital. But those statues are so
Speaker 1: prominent that they've become local landmarks. And there's another important thing,
Speaker 1: because it turns out they overshadow another president. That's right,
Speaker 1: poor James K. Polk, the US is eleventh President, who
Speaker 1: along with his wife Sarah, are currently buried on the
Speaker 1: those grounds of the Tennessee State Capital. And a very
Speaker 1: modest compared to the giant sweeping statues, a modest structure
Speaker 1: um that is kind of flanked by these columns, and
Speaker 1: it was actually designed by the same architect that designed
Speaker 1: the US State Capital in kind of a Greek style.
Speaker 1: And as we record today's episode, turns out that Sarah
Speaker 1: and James may not be located there much longer. You see,
Speaker 1: there's a movement to disenter or exhume the Polk couple
Speaker 1: and move them about fifty miles away to their family's
Speaker 1: historic home, which is actually in a town called Columbia,
Speaker 1: very close to Murfreesboro. If I'm not mistaken as the
Speaker 1: ore Silent in Murfreesboro, I've always I've always kind of
Speaker 1: been winging it. We got some we've got some great
Speaker 1: pronunciation emails earlier, I've leaving the show, So help us
Speaker 1: out this time, folks. Murfreesboro versus Murphy. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: the question. But Columbia is in fact a pretty small
Speaker 1: town near Murphysboro that is largely known for its yearly
Speaker 1: Mule Festival. I'm a big fan of festivals, man, and
Speaker 1: it's time that the mule finally got it's do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's more than just a little horse,
Speaker 1: right man. I mean, I don't know. Just because it's
Speaker 1: a relatively small species doesn't mean it's not a big deal. Technically,
Speaker 1: a mule is the offspring of a male donkey and
Speaker 1: a female horse, so it's a different species. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: Only mentioning this to show that you know, Columbia um
Speaker 1: charming place to live, I'm sure, But Broadway, it's not Broadway,
Speaker 1: It is not not not a whole lot of a
Speaker 1: tourist attractions for this city, and I think there are
Speaker 1: some that hope that might change with the movement uh
Speaker 1: to move said presidents remains right. So Polk was born
Speaker 1: in North Carolina in sev but his family did eventually
Speaker 1: move to the Tennessee Frontier, where his father built a
Speaker 1: home there in Columbia in eighteen sixteen, and because he
Speaker 1: lived there for several years as as a ute as
Speaker 1: an adolescent. Uh, the home now serves as the James K.
Speaker 1: Polk Museum. And this happens very often here in the
Speaker 1: United States. I don't know whether it's the case in
Speaker 1: other countries, but in our neck of the Global Woods,
Speaker 1: a famous were historically influential person just has to spend
Speaker 1: time in a location for it to become, you know,
Speaker 1: their ancestral home or their museum. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be the place where Mark Twain regul Alapo was born necessarily.
Speaker 1: It could be the home where Mark Twain lived or
Speaker 1: Samue Old Clemens lived in I think Springfield, Connecticut. You know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't a kid there. That's that's where he lived
Speaker 1: and lost a bunch of money betting on terrible inventions. Niche.
Speaker 1: But let's let's get not get too ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1: What was Poke known for? Benny? He was only one
Speaker 1: term president, but accomplished a pretty obscene amount of stuff, right,
Speaker 1: he did some great stuff. I want to open with
Speaker 1: his nicknames though, because I think they're hilarious. Uh. Every
Speaker 1: president has a bunch of nicknames, and just just a
Speaker 1: few of James Knox Pulp. Nick names would be Napoleon
Speaker 1: of the Stump and Young Hickory. And the reason he
Speaker 1: was Young Hickory was because when he was Speaker of
Speaker 1: the House, really trumpeted his mentor Andrew Jackson's policies. Uh,
Speaker 1: and that informed a lot of what he would accomplish
Speaker 1: as president in terms of really pushing hard for this
Speaker 1: manifest destiny idea of expanding the United States borders um
Speaker 1: to the Pacific. That we will get into that surely
Speaker 1: that was one of the accomplishments. But Old Hickory was
Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson's nickname, and so that was that he was
Speaker 1: his boy, Little Hickory or young Young Hickory. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was definitely a protege. So Polk had actually been a lawyer,
Speaker 1: and while he was in law school, he clerked for
Speaker 1: the state Senate. UM and then in eighteen three got
Speaker 1: elected to the Tennessee House of Representatives and was reelected
Speaker 1: a whopping six times, where he eventually became the Speaker.
Speaker 1: And that's when he was able to really champion Andrew
Speaker 1: Jackson's various political positions and got that nickname Young Hickory. Um.
Speaker 1: He actually went on to become Tennessee's ninth governor, and
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty four he became President of the United States.
Speaker 1: He was forty nine years old, which sounds, you know,
Speaker 1: like pretty cool batting average now, but at the time
Speaker 1: he was the youngest candidate ever to become president. So
Speaker 1: there's a there's a star, gold star form. Definitely young Hickory,
Speaker 1: Totally young Hickory for days. He also re established the
Speaker 1: treasury system, which was kind of a precursor to what
Speaker 1: we have today under the Federal Reserve. He created the
Speaker 1: Naval Academy, and legislation that he signed actually established the
Speaker 1: creation of the Smithsonian Institution, which is responsible for preserving
Speaker 1: artifacts and American culture and it is free to visit. Additionally,
Speaker 1: let's see what's the best way to say this, During
Speaker 1: his administration, the very first US postage stamp was issued,
Speaker 1: which is still a big deal today for philatelists in
Speaker 1: the crowd. Pen Did you just pull that word right
Speaker 1: off the top of your dome? Sort of, but I
Speaker 1: didn't make it up. It is the fancy word for
Speaker 1: stamp collectors. I should have guessed that, but that is
Speaker 1: a weird one for me. Voluminoust is the fancy word
Speaker 1: for matchbook collectors. I am full of cartoonistly specific words,
Speaker 1: but we are talking about specific and historically significant actions
Speaker 1: by the eleventh President. And there's the real big one
Speaker 1: that we hinted that earlier with this whole da of
Speaker 1: manifest destiny, which was the notion that the US should
Speaker 1: basically colonize other places. And during the Mexican American War,
Speaker 1: James K. Polk pushed pretty damn hard to make that
Speaker 1: happen and had some success, didn't he, Yes, he did.
Speaker 1: He was instrumental in expanding the territory of the United
Speaker 1: States by more than eight hundred thousand square miles, which
Speaker 1: means it goes all the way. This this is where
Speaker 1: it became a c deshining cea country. Yeah. In eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty six, Texas, which was at the time ruled by Mexico,
Speaker 1: was given independence and it was not initially incorporated into
Speaker 1: the Union. And this became an issue after that and
Speaker 1: continuous raids by the Mexican government. And then in eighteen
Speaker 1: forty four when Polk was elected, he pushed really hard
Speaker 1: to reannex Texas, which is kind of what set off
Speaker 1: this conflict. What does that mean, Member, This would mean
Speaker 1: that the territory at hand becomes part of the United
Speaker 1: States property of it. So, for instance, if the US
Speaker 1: today were too annex of Baja California, or if Baja
Speaker 1: California were to annex California right, then what that would
Speaker 1: mean is that this territory would become the property of
Speaker 1: the governing state. Annexation is typically not a move that
Speaker 1: everyone agrees with. Right So, if our super producer Casey
Speaker 1: Pegram and you and I are each three state actors
Speaker 1: who are neighbors, and two of us decide to split
Speaker 1: up the other one's property and annex it, it's pretty
Speaker 1: much a declaration of war exactly. And also part of
Speaker 1: the reason that there was issue with making Texas part
Speaker 1: of the Union was that lawmakers did not want another
Speaker 1: slave state. Um. And then there were these, you know,
Speaker 1: occasional raids, border raids by the Mexican government. But like
Speaker 1: we said, when Polk was elected, he threw all that
Speaker 1: aside and reannexation procedures began, and this set off the war,
Speaker 1: and ultimately, long story short, we won and we got
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of land as a result. And that
Speaker 1: all happened under the watch of James K. Polk during
Speaker 1: his very short presidency, which was a purposeful presidency. You see,
Speaker 1: he was a one term president by designing that was
Speaker 1: part of his campaign platform, and unlike many many, many, many,
Speaker 1: many other state leaders or politicians in general, he kept
Speaker 1: his word and after four years in the White House, uh,
Speaker 1: he returned to Tennessee. We do want to make a
Speaker 1: note here that the Mexican American War and eat all
Speaker 1: wars are tragic things. This was not This was not
Speaker 1: necessarily a position where there were clear cut good or
Speaker 1: bad guys in the United States, and many many organizations
Speaker 1: commanded by the United States did horrific things. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I mean, and the American military vastly outnumbered the Mexican forces,
Speaker 1: sort of a you know, shooting fishing a barrel kind
Speaker 1: of not age equal playing field. Now, So what happened
Speaker 1: after Polk left the presidency. He died, That's right. He
Speaker 1: did pass away, as people are unfortunately want to do.
Speaker 1: He died on June eighteen forty nine, so not long
Speaker 1: after he served his term as president, and he passed
Speaker 1: away in Nashville, Tennessee. He did. And it's actually he's
Speaker 1: super interesting because he passed away after contracting cholera, and
Speaker 1: at the time there had been a massive cholera outbreak
Speaker 1: in Nashville such that there was a city ordinance that
Speaker 1: required any cholera victims be buried in the local municipal cemetery. Okay, right,
Speaker 1: so don't even have their bodies around for say a
Speaker 1: family ceremony or something. And so Polk's first burial place
Speaker 1: was very specifically tied to these conditions that it was
Speaker 1: just they had to do it. They put him there
Speaker 1: with everyone else who had suffered from this disease, and
Speaker 1: his after his post presidency of one hundred and three days,
Speaker 1: the shortest of any president, did not die in office.
Speaker 1: Uh I believe it was. It was about a year after,
Speaker 1: isn't that right, nol where they his body was dug
Speaker 1: up and moved after the first burial. That's right. It
Speaker 1: was dug up and moved to Polk Place, which sounds
Speaker 1: like a uh a square on Monopoly or a place
Speaker 1: where they would sell poke bowls. Okay, here's a pitch.
Speaker 1: Here's a pitch. Just let me know what you think.
Speaker 1: A James K. Polk themed poke bowl restaurant. See, I
Speaker 1: I have issue with Poke versus Polke and I know
Speaker 1: you've made your line in the sand that it is poke.
Speaker 1: And I have said that to people who have looked
Speaker 1: at me askance. So, folks, what do you think? We're
Speaker 1: talking about raw fish in a bowl with rice and deliciousness.
Speaker 1: Is it poke or poke? Right in? What do y'all think? No?
Speaker 1: If your problem with this persists, then don't worry. I've
Speaker 1: still got us covered. I've got a backup plan. It's
Speaker 1: a poke a bowl place that's Pokemon themed. That's easy love.
Speaker 1: You could serve it in a pokey bowl, right, and
Speaker 1: you can collect the bulls love it all right. But
Speaker 1: but Polk Place, it turns out, is different. That is
Speaker 1: the that is the property where James K. Polk was
Speaker 1: intending to establish his like who wanted to be buried there.
Speaker 1: He wanted kids to grow up there. He wanted it
Speaker 1: to remain the seat of the Polka state. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this was the true kind of ancestral home of the
Speaker 1: Polke family. After Polk died, his wife Sarah continued to
Speaker 1: live at Polke Place for forty two years until she died. Um.
Speaker 1: But here's where the plot thickens and things start to
Speaker 1: get really interesting. Polk actually drew up his will a
Speaker 1: mirror five months before he passed away, and in it
Speaker 1: he used some very specific language. He was, after all
Speaker 1: a lawyer. Um that said that his and his wife's
Speaker 1: remains should be buried at Polk Place, and that after
Speaker 1: he and his wife died, the property should be held
Speaker 1: in trust by the state, and that there should always
Speaker 1: be a blood relative living there. And there were a
Speaker 1: number of heirs, and they waited, They bided their time,
Speaker 1: but not direct heirs. Not direct I think because of
Speaker 1: a childhood malady. He had the kidney stones really bad.
Speaker 1: He had an operation that rendered him sterile. Right, he
Speaker 1: did not have any direct issue. But there were a
Speaker 1: number of heirs who, as I were saying, bided their
Speaker 1: time for decades, waiting for Sarah Polk to expire. And
Speaker 1: then they filed lawsuits arguing that this will was a
Speaker 1: you know, a burlap sack full of bologny for legal purposes.
Speaker 1: The court ruled in their favor, and the court said
Speaker 1: that the will violated the common law rule against perpetuities,
Speaker 1: things that limit an owner's ability to leave property to
Speaker 1: unborn future generations. I guess Polk might have been a
Speaker 1: cracker jack one term president, but not that greatable lawyer,
Speaker 1: and who knows, you know, if he were, That's that's
Speaker 1: the thing about Wills. You're not around to defend it
Speaker 1: in person, you know. So he very well may have
Speaker 1: been able to defend his position, but unfortunately with everyone
Speaker 1: who really had a stake in that perspective gone, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. He had to just depend on the language
Speaker 1: as he had written it. So Polk Place was sold
Speaker 1: and torn down right, and today there's a boutique hotel
Speaker 1: on the property. Yeah. Apparently initially, um, they were trying
Speaker 1: to turn it into the Governor's mansion there in Nashville,
Speaker 1: but that did not pass muster. And then um, they
Speaker 1: it was scooped up by a developer. I think it
Speaker 1: was an apartment for a while, and then it was
Speaker 1: it's the boutique hotel today. And that initial developer, his
Speaker 1: name was Craig McClanahan. Um. He apparently donated part of
Speaker 1: the property to be turned into a Carnegie Library. And
Speaker 1: according to UH Tennessee magazine and article written by Bill
Speaker 1: Carey UM, who talks a good bit about this debacle
Speaker 1: moving moving Polk's remains, Um, he says all of this
Speaker 1: was done just to appease Nashville residents who might have
Speaker 1: been irritated that this this fat cat developers swooped in
Speaker 1: and you know, crushed their their history, which unfortunately is
Speaker 1: a tale as old as American time. If we're taking
Speaker 1: on the capitalist clock, right, developers come in and change things,
Speaker 1: and it's tough to decide what should be kept historic
Speaker 1: and what becomes ephemeral and what has a strip mall
Speaker 1: or a mixed use development in the future. We're in
Speaker 1: an interesting spot where we sit here now, Ben We're
Speaker 1: in a place called Pont City Market. That is a
Speaker 1: historic building. It used to be a city hall before
Speaker 1: that in the what forties, I want to say, it
Speaker 1: was in Sears and Roebucks Shipping and receiving center by
Speaker 1: train right by the train line when they call the
Speaker 1: belt line now and to this day, we it's basically
Speaker 1: kind of a bougee mall, uh and we have our
Speaker 1: studios here, which we love. It's it's a neat spot,
Speaker 1: but it has that interesting give and take between history,
Speaker 1: preserving history and progress. And and here's a great example, Stoners,
Speaker 1: you may find this interesting. Even before there were buildings here,
Speaker 1: this road is named Pontst. Leon. This building is named
Speaker 1: Pont City Market because it's on a road called Ponsta Leon,
Speaker 1: which is relatively famous here in the US. It's named
Speaker 1: that because people used to drive outside of the city
Speaker 1: proper when it was a dirt road to find the
Speaker 1: curative springs that were said to be Panacey is for
Speaker 1: what all ails you. And they named this street ponstant
Speaker 1: Leon as just a blatant marketing thing to have it
Speaker 1: associated with a fountain of youth famously searched for by
Speaker 1: Ponsta Leon himself. Totally. And now when you drink from
Speaker 1: the water fountains at Pont City Market, you are granted
Speaker 1: eternal life. True story right right, Well, you're on the
Speaker 1: eternal life plan, which I believe is starts at ten
Speaker 1: dollars a month and an internal life coach that's going
Speaker 1: to uh. Seriously, though, the water does come from those
Speaker 1: same springs. That's why there's that big systems or reservoir.
Speaker 1: So back to Polk. On September nineteen three, James K.
Speaker 1: Polk's body was moved again. This time it was moved
Speaker 1: to the capital where our story began with the statues
Speaker 1: of Jackson and Johnson. Uh. And he was buried alongside
Speaker 1: of his wife, and we talked a little bit earlier
Speaker 1: about how there's a little bit of a kerfuffle about
Speaker 1: this potential choice to move them um to it's a
Speaker 1: huge Yeah, yeah, I'm probably downplaying a little bit. And
Speaker 1: a lot of that has to do with the idea
Speaker 1: that the folks in Columbia are just pushing for this
Speaker 1: because it would be a tourist destination, because we talked
Speaker 1: earlier about how at the Tennessee State Capitol, Polk's grave
Speaker 1: is largely dwarfed by these, you know, really ostentatious sculptures
Speaker 1: of potentially more well known presidents Andrew Jackson and Andrew
Speaker 1: Johnson not necessarily more important, not necessarily more important at all.
Speaker 1: And again, the whole connection is interesting how Jackson was
Speaker 1: old Hickory and uh and Polk was little Hickory. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: it's not a little Hickory. It was young Hickory, young Hickory. Um.
Speaker 1: And and he's dwarfed in in other ways than that.
Speaker 1: Jackson is buried also in Tennessee at his estate called
Speaker 1: the Hermitage, which is a hugely popular tourist destination. And
Speaker 1: you know, why wouldn't the folks in Columbia want to
Speaker 1: get a little piece of that sweet, sweet tourist action. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: According to Bill Carry, a researcher and writer who focuses
Speaker 1: on this region, the reinterment of President and Mrs Polk
Speaker 1: is one of the most disrespectful deeds ever committed by
Speaker 1: the state of Tennessee. The second one, the second reinterment, right,
Speaker 1: the first one colra you know, Colar graveyard, second one
Speaker 1: family homestead, then when they toured that's the gross one.
Speaker 1: And then to the capital. And so we're seeing that's
Speaker 1: a great distinction because we are seeing collectively this um,
Speaker 1: this grab for money. It seems as if you know,
Speaker 1: as Asnal said earlier that to the opponents of the
Speaker 1: Columbia move from the Capital to Columbia, this seems as
Speaker 1: though it is little more than a blatant grab for
Speaker 1: authenticity and tourism dollars. Right, Or we're not particularly honoring
Speaker 1: the wishes of this former president because the former president
Speaker 1: wanted to be interred in a place that has been
Speaker 1: torn down, Right, We're not necessarily honoring the wishes of
Speaker 1: the man himself the woman herself because they wanted to
Speaker 1: be interred at place which was torn down for development purposes.
Speaker 1: This move, this idea of move from the Capitol to Columbia,
Speaker 1: has no small amount of critics, including Bill Carey, but
Speaker 1: also Carol Van West, who is the state historian there
Speaker 1: of Nashville. She said, when Polk left the White House,
Speaker 1: he came home to Nashville, his wife stayed there for
Speaker 1: decades afterwards. There's no reason to move them, essentially, except
Speaker 1: there's an argument on the other side too, right, because
Speaker 1: you've got this guy Tom Price, who's the creator of
Speaker 1: this place we're talking about now, the James K. Polk
Speaker 1: Home and Museum, Columbia, Tennessee, which was the home that
Speaker 1: his father built and that he later purchased. And you know,
Speaker 1: Mr Price argues that it's not about tourism dollars, that
Speaker 1: it's about doing the best job possible given conditions, to
Speaker 1: honor the language and that will because he wanted to
Speaker 1: be buried at home. This is the closest thing you got.
Speaker 1: So it's like the spirit of the law. If we
Speaker 1: cannot adhere to the letter, I don't know what do
Speaker 1: you think. I am all on the fence because he
Speaker 1: does acknowledge that it's difficult to get students to tour
Speaker 1: the home because Andrew Jackson's hermitage is so close by
Speaker 1: exactly so like again in life, dwarfed also in death um.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because the Tennessee lawmaker, State Senator Joey Hensley,
Speaker 1: who sponsored this bill that we're talking about that would
Speaker 1: um disinenter these remains and move them to this Polk
Speaker 1: House in Colombia, is quoted as saying this, I honestly
Speaker 1: served up here in the Tennessee state capital for fourteen
Speaker 1: years and had never seen Polk's grave. He told this
Speaker 1: to the New York Times. It's not handicap accessible. It's
Speaker 1: not really talked about much when they do do the
Speaker 1: capital tour, uh, and not many people visit it. It's
Speaker 1: just not a very good play to honor his legacy.
Speaker 1: So all kidding aside, I can see both sides, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really good point, because if they're not including
Speaker 1: it when they're doing the tour, if it's not easy
Speaker 1: to get to, Usually for anyone who's been on an
Speaker 1: historical tour before, what happens is you become inundated with
Speaker 1: information and so you're you're not most people are not
Speaker 1: very likely to go above and beyond what the tour
Speaker 1: guide tells them to look at. And this brought us
Speaker 1: to a very interesting question, which is, what does it
Speaker 1: take to disenter the corpse of a president? If we
Speaker 1: just decided, Hey, we're not doing anything with the next
Speaker 1: few years, let's pick up a new hobby. Uh, it
Speaker 1: turns out it's not too easy. You have to have
Speaker 1: the approval of the governor, the state House of Representatives,
Speaker 1: a local judge from the area, and in the case
Speaker 1: of Tennessee, the volunteer state, you have to have the
Speaker 1: approval of the Tennessee Historical Commission. You have to have
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of different moving pieces worked together.
Speaker 1: In Unison, about a week after the Senate bill passed,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee Historical Commission had come out against the plan
Speaker 1: to exhume James K. Polk and said that moving the
Speaker 1: graves would create a false sense of history at the
Speaker 1: home in museum in Columbia. Even given all of that
Speaker 1: red tape you have to get through to make this happen.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if this has always been the
Speaker 1: case in exactly the way that you laid out, but
Speaker 1: there are several historical precedents for exhuming presidential remains. And
Speaker 1: three times it's not even not even close. Man, In
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty eight, James Monroe, who was our fifth president,
Speaker 1: was exhumed and relocated from New York to his home
Speaker 1: state in Virginia. And then we've got this one that
Speaker 1: is just an absolute doozy. How many times been do
Speaker 1: you think Abraham Lincoln's body was moved? I know, do
Speaker 1: you want me to pretend I don't know, you can
Speaker 1: just say it, Okay, seventeen times so far. So far.
Speaker 1: That's the thing with Abraham Lincoln. I feel like we
Speaker 1: have to add so far every time we mentioned that's
Speaker 1: to just just let the man rest. And that is indeed,
Speaker 1: that is the presidential record for the amount of posthumous
Speaker 1: moves per president. And in the case of Lincoln, these
Speaker 1: all occurred within the balance of Springfield, Illinois. What is
Speaker 1: that even about? Yeah, and I found this it was
Speaker 1: it's on a discussion board Lincoln Assassination Forum, from a
Speaker 1: man named Roger Norton. I can't speak to Mr. Norton's credentials,
Speaker 1: but he does have an example or a little account
Speaker 1: of every single time Lincoln's remains were moved and One
Speaker 1: of them reads as such, November seven, seventy six, and
Speaker 1: an attempt to kidnap Lincoln's body and hold it for ransom.
Speaker 1: Ghoule's partially dismantle the sarcophagus and slide Lincoln's coffin halfway out.
Speaker 1: The conspiracy is foiled, however, and the kidnappers escape, leaving
Speaker 1: Lincoln's body behind Lee. Lincoln also in a way that
Speaker 1: reminds me of our earlier episodes involving Winston Churchill. Lincoln
Speaker 1: also felt that he experienced precognitive dreams, but he never
Speaker 1: as far as we know in the historical record, he
Speaker 1: never said, guys, They're going to move my body seventeen times.
Speaker 1: But that's a weird prediction for people to make at
Speaker 1: this point. Only time will tell if James and Sarah
Speaker 1: Polk are going to be disinterred and reinterred a fourth time.
Speaker 1: And we want, we want to hear your opinion on this.
Speaker 1: Is it a matter of historical accuracies and matter of disrespect?
Speaker 1: Is it a matter of doing our best? Is the
Speaker 1: living to adhere to the wishes of those who have passed?
Speaker 1: And in this Polk House and museum now a lot
Speaker 1: of the furniture from the raised ancestral Polk home is
Speaker 1: on display, you know, and sort of like place out
Speaker 1: of time, kind of pastiche So, I'm sure it's a
Speaker 1: fascinating place to go. Do you need to dig up
Speaker 1: the guy's bones move them? I mean, this all depends
Speaker 1: on your view I guess of historical uh completionism. I guess,
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, Like is it I don't know.
Speaker 1: Can't they just put up a plaque? It just seems
Speaker 1: like an awful big to do, right, And then it
Speaker 1: also goes into well, we could argue that it goes
Speaker 1: into the spiritual beliefs of the people when they were alive,
Speaker 1: you know, because there there's some people who find it
Speaker 1: tremendously offensive to be moved around. And then there are
Speaker 1: some people who would say there were some people would say,
Speaker 1: like lenin style, just don't just preserve me and keep
Speaker 1: me on display. Right, And as it turns out, we
Speaker 1: have an update to this story. Um So, the the
Speaker 1: resolution that called for the movement of President Polk and
Speaker 1: his wife's remains was passed by the state Senate in
Speaker 1: Tennessee in March, but it was put on hold until
Speaker 1: later this year. So the State House will not actually
Speaker 1: vote on it until sometime this year, when we do
Speaker 1: not know, as the gears of law tend to grind
Speaker 1: pretty slow. But we'll keep an eye on this one.
Speaker 1: So will there be an update in the future, Will
Speaker 1: there still be momentum for this legislation or will it
Speaker 1: fall to the wayside? Unfortunately, as so much legislation often does. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's only one way to tell. Well, there are several
Speaker 1: ways to tell. They all depend on time, and we
Speaker 1: hope that your favorite way to tell will be tuning
Speaker 1: into another episode of Ridiculous History in the meantime. I'd
Speaker 1: like to add this Pulk quotation towards the end of
Speaker 1: our episode here because I think it's an interesting contrast.
Speaker 1: One of his more famous quotations was the following, I
Speaker 1: cannot whilst President of the United States descend to enter
Speaker 1: into a newspaper controversy. Okay, bold words from President James K. Polk. Well,
Speaker 1: he did say wild president, and he's not currently president.
Speaker 1: That's fair, But now it seems that controversy has sprang
Speaker 1: up in his wake. He was really trying to just
Speaker 1: be super chill and under the radar, especially when he
Speaker 1: you know, invaded Mexico. He said some other stuff I
Speaker 1: like too. He said, thank god, under our constitution there
Speaker 1: was no connection between church and state. That's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that would turn controversial again, did you,
Speaker 1: President Polk? And it's funny because he has kind of
Speaker 1: a pale, kind of milk toast kind of look to him,
Speaker 1: something almost puritanical exactly, So you know, I could see
Speaker 1: him wanting to be uncontroversial and some of the stuff
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, especially like the whole you know,
Speaker 1: Mexican American War and manifest destiny and all that. You know,
Speaker 1: we like California, but not the most popular political stance
Speaker 1: these days. Right, Let's just go take uh, you know,
Speaker 1: from beyond our borders. Oh yeah, and no, what do
Speaker 1: you think about this quotation the world has nothing to
Speaker 1: fear from military ambition in our government. Don't want that
Speaker 1: one either. Let us know what your favorite James K.
Speaker 1: Polk quote is. Any any historical figures, send us quotes,
Speaker 1: will read them on the air. We'll have a new
Speaker 1: section in the show called quote Corner. I'm just spitballing here,
Speaker 1: and you can put corner behind anything and it can
Speaker 1: be a segment but right to us. We are Ridiculous
Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com. You can also find
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, Twitter, we are Ridiculous History and check
Speaker 1: us out on iTunes and leave us a review Apple
Speaker 1: Podcast rather excuse me. We appreciate and that kind of
Speaker 1: helps discover ability of the show. Go up or anywhere
Speaker 1: else you listen to podcast. Just just write us a
Speaker 1: note if you dig the show, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And perhaps not most importantly, but let's put it in
Speaker 1: the top five there at James K. Polk themed Pope
Speaker 1: poll place or a Pokemon aimed poke a bowl place.
Speaker 1: Let us know