Speaker 1: Put yourself in a situation listeners, imagine that you have
Speaker 1: been driving all day, but not on any road trip, no,
Speaker 1: on a mission of vengeance. Your heart is thumping, your
Speaker 1: body is on its last legs, and you might be
Speaker 1: about to blow up your car or make history. Hi,
Speaker 1: my name is Ben, my name is Noel, and Ben,
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, and I'm gonna come clean
Speaker 1: right up front. It wasn't until doing the research for
Speaker 1: this episode that I actually understood why those people drive
Speaker 1: around in circles all day long. Right. Yes, today we
Speaker 1: are delving into racing, not just any race, but one
Speaker 1: of the most important moments in one of the world's
Speaker 1: most important races. And for a lot of people who
Speaker 1: aren't already race fans, racing is a weird thing, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, well, you're just what everybody's
Speaker 1: just going left For a while, I just straight up
Speaker 1: didn't understand the rules or anything about it, Like I
Speaker 1: I just didn't. So this was a very eye opening
Speaker 1: thing for me. And I am going to defer largely
Speaker 1: to you on this, Ben, because many listeners may know,
Speaker 1: you had a podcast for many years called Car Stuff,
Speaker 1: where you delved into all things automotive and I believe
Speaker 1: you guys did an episode on this very subject. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: thank you know yes, my co host Scott Benjamin and I,
Speaker 1: who longtime listeners will remember from several other shows, including
Speaker 1: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know, which you Nolan
Speaker 1: I do with our esteems compatriot Matt Frederick. We spent
Speaker 1: nine years examining everything that floats, fly, swims or drives
Speaker 1: as a dope tagline. Thank you, thanks man. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that we loved exploring and that lists
Speaker 1: loved exploring with us was the behind the scenes stories
Speaker 1: of automotive fame or infamy. Because you know nowadays we're
Speaker 1: recording this in ten. You can look at the hundreds
Speaker 1: of new cars that come out every year and you
Speaker 1: can tell that millions of dollars of research and design
Speaker 1: went into them, but we often forget the personal inspirations
Speaker 1: behind them. Well, it's also with today. Other than like
Speaker 1: you know, your electric cars and Teslas and things like that,
Speaker 1: there aren't a whole lot of ah ha moments as
Speaker 1: far as motoring is concerned, Like you've got your McLarens
Speaker 1: and these like million dollars supercars, which is all very
Speaker 1: niche and interesting. But back in the days that we're
Speaker 1: talking about, it was kind of like the Wild West.
Speaker 1: There weren't as many regulations in place. Racing was a
Speaker 1: much more dangerous sport. It's still pretty dangerous, but in
Speaker 1: terms of you you talked about explosions that was a
Speaker 1: regular occurrence, but innovation was something that was I feel
Speaker 1: like it was much more hard fought. Yeah, I would agree,
Speaker 1: because in every every new car that you see nowadays
Speaker 1: stands on the shoulders of giants, right, and people will
Speaker 1: spend years figuring out how to get what would seem
Speaker 1: to be a largely minuscule edge in performance. And racing
Speaker 1: is where we see this to the most extreme extent,
Speaker 1: I almost say cartoonish, but to the most extreme extent.
Speaker 1: And today you and I and our superproducer Casey Pegram
Speaker 1: are exploring one of the most ridiculous stories in the world.
Speaker 1: Are we supposed to acknowledge that Casey exists as a
Speaker 1: as a Mario sound effect? Yeah? Yeah, that's why it
Speaker 1: comes up. Is it okay for us to acknowledge that?
Speaker 1: Does it cheapen end? Does it Does it take away
Speaker 1: the fun? I don't think so? Do you think so? I?
Speaker 1: Think it's delightful. I look forward to it every time. Also,
Speaker 1: Ol and I try to listen to the episodes after
Speaker 1: we record them to make sure that we don't sound
Speaker 1: too ridiculous. And I got to tell you that sound
Speaker 1: cue is one of my favorite parts. We have to
Speaker 1: sound just ridiculous enough. And Casey, as you know from
Speaker 1: the segment Casey on the Case which will be returning,
Speaker 1: does in fact have a corporeal form and a voice,
Speaker 1: but from time to time he exists in the form
Speaker 1: of a sorry to make you do it again. So
Speaker 1: so this is something that we wanted to bring to
Speaker 1: you today, friends and neighbors. Whether or not you are
Speaker 1: a racing fan, you will find this interesting because this
Speaker 1: is not just a story about racing, not really. It's
Speaker 1: a story about revenge, a story about beef. Yes, a
Speaker 1: story about titans of industry were very very personal and
Speaker 1: dare I say, petty problems with each other. And our
Speaker 1: story begins today with well, you'll see people say it
Speaker 1: begins in the early nineteen sixties, but you can trace
Speaker 1: it a little further back in October tenth of nineteen
Speaker 1: o one. Henry Ford, the legendary mad genius Henry Ford
Speaker 1: won a race with a car he had built called Sweepstakes,
Speaker 1: and he always loved racing. But the thing about Ford,
Speaker 1: one of the largest car manufacturers, was that they were
Speaker 1: not building cars to win races. They were building cars
Speaker 1: to be affordable for the average American and then later
Speaker 1: the average citizen of the world. I believe there was
Speaker 1: a even a beef at this point, a driver by
Speaker 1: the name of Alexander Winton was the biggest hotshot race
Speaker 1: car driver of the day, and Ford was just bound
Speaker 1: and determined to kick his butt and and he did
Speaker 1: just that, and then that kind of opened the doors
Speaker 1: for Ford where people were like, whoa, we want to
Speaker 1: help this guy do everything we can to get his
Speaker 1: fledgling car company off the ground. Yeah, exactly, And by golly,
Speaker 1: by gum or whatever they used as a phrase of
Speaker 1: exclamation in those times. It worked, and Henry Ford, not
Speaker 1: by any means a perfect man, went on to be
Speaker 1: the head of one of history's most successful car companies.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to the nineteen sixties, when Henry Ford's son named,
Speaker 1: in a burst of creativity, Henry Ford to electric boogaloo
Speaker 1: joke or no gets done, it's out there, what's done?
Speaker 1: Is done, my friend. So now we're in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: Henry Ford two is the chief executive of Ford. That's right.
Speaker 1: Henry Ford the second came out of the Navy to
Speaker 1: run the company that his father had started after Henry Ford,
Speaker 1: uh Senior had gotten a little two up there in
Speaker 1: years to continue running at and Ford the second I
Speaker 1: like to, we're gonna Ford to I'm good with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't know a whole lot about running the business,
Speaker 1: but he was savvy enough to hire people that did.
Speaker 1: So we hired this like brain trust, this group of
Speaker 1: marketers and finance experts and just in general very very smart,
Speaker 1: well equipped people that was known as the whiz Kids,
Speaker 1: and then the Ford Company kind of entered a new era, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: because you see, the thing that happens often with family
Speaker 1: companies is they will either remain ideologically aligned with the
Speaker 1: founder or ideologically opposite. And in this case, Henry Ford
Speaker 1: the second or two loved the things that his father loved,
Speaker 1: and one of those was racing, and by the time
Speaker 1: too becomes the chief executive, Ford never quite manages to
Speaker 1: get the acclaim they wanted with racing or associated with
Speaker 1: some great vehicles but those vehicles are not associated with
Speaker 1: winning prestigious races. This is very true, and that's because,
Speaker 1: like you said, their main focus was not necessarily on
Speaker 1: innovation technologically, but it was on really pushing that marketing
Speaker 1: angle and selling the American Dream to that nuclear family
Speaker 1: that was so popular. In all the ad campaigns we see, um,
Speaker 1: they were referred to as living rooms on wheels, and
Speaker 1: they were sold as part of that American Dream ideal. Um.
Speaker 1: There really wasn't any interest in having any sporty qualities
Speaker 1: or like good handling, um or anything like that. I
Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of the vibe of
Speaker 1: these ad campaigns, A quote from one of the Ford
Speaker 1: commercials is as such, and out on the highway, the
Speaker 1: food in yll future, with its lowest, safest center of gravity,
Speaker 1: provides a smooth and midship ride, quiet as a whisper
Speaker 1: and gentle as a summer breeze. Well read, nor well read,
Speaker 1: And this is accurate. This is not a bunch of
Speaker 1: advertising smoke. People were buying forwards for that reason to
Speaker 1: satisfy that demand to participate. As we established in the
Speaker 1: American Dream, so too decides that one way to innovate
Speaker 1: forward as a brand is to become known not just
Speaker 1: as a rolling living room for the average well to
Speaker 1: do American, but to be known as a credible racing manufacturer.
Speaker 1: And here they run into a bit of a catch
Speaker 1: twenty two. Up until this point, most successful racing vehicles
Speaker 1: came from dedicated racing teams. So they would build, you know,
Speaker 1: a small number of very high end cars right or
Speaker 1: even custom cars, and these cars would not be in
Speaker 1: several cases, would not be considered the street legal. They're
Speaker 1: not what we call daily drivers. They are built to
Speaker 1: kill other cars on the racetrack. So if you are
Speaker 1: a company with a ton of money and a ton
Speaker 1: of credibility in regular daily driving, you have to find
Speaker 1: a way to break into this market, and money alone
Speaker 1: is not going to help you immediately. The best way
Speaker 1: to build a reputation in the racing world is to
Speaker 1: either win a race yourself, which is very very very
Speaker 1: very very difficult coming in new and coming in green,
Speaker 1: or as we see a lot of larger companies doing
Speaker 1: today in places like Silicon Valley and another industries, to
Speaker 1: find a smaller company that does one thing and does
Speaker 1: it really well and buy them so too and his
Speaker 1: brain trust the wiz kids that Noll mentioned earlier, said,
Speaker 1: let's go buy a racing company, and then we can
Speaker 1: take their expertise, we can take their experience and their knowledge,
Speaker 1: and we can make it a part of us, the
Speaker 1: same way that Rome would conquer other territories. And two
Speaker 1: went to a race, and in that race he saw
Speaker 1: a shiny Itali in uh sexy sports car um with
Speaker 1: that badge that we know so well, the rearing horse
Speaker 1: on the yellow background, the Ferrari, and he saw it win,
Speaker 1: and then and there decided that he wanted to buy
Speaker 1: that company because Ferrari had a storied history in the
Speaker 1: European racing game. Yes, and one contrast between Ferrari and
Speaker 1: Ford is that in Ferrari's case, the founder, Enzo Ferrari,
Speaker 1: is still very very active. And if you've if you've
Speaker 1: ever learned much about the history of Inso Ferrari, you
Speaker 1: will see that what we're seeing is absolutely true, storied
Speaker 1: racing history and also nothing to sneeze at. But Zo
Speaker 1: Ferrari is a legendarily cantankerous individual. Let's just give him
Speaker 1: a little bit of backstory. Um Enzo Ferrari was born
Speaker 1: in eight in northern Italy. And he grew up uh well,
Speaker 1: let's of the poor in a rural area, father of
Speaker 1: a metal worker, and they produced parts for the Italian Railway.
Speaker 1: He went to his first race in nineteen o eight
Speaker 1: and decided he was just in love with the sport
Speaker 1: and wanted to be a race car driver. World War
Speaker 1: One took Enzo's father and brother from him, and he
Speaker 1: too joined the army and helped maintain their motor pool
Speaker 1: for the Artillery Division. After the war, he sold the
Speaker 1: family home to buy race cars. Then he won his
Speaker 1: first race in four using an Alpha Romeo and it
Speaker 1: totally changed his life. Alpha Romeo at the time we're
Speaker 1: having some financial problems that they gave control of their
Speaker 1: motor sports division two ends up because he had proven
Speaker 1: himself a worthy racer and a smart businessman, that's exactly,
Speaker 1: and he and his team won the prestigious twenty four
Speaker 1: hours at Laments race four times. Yes, this we're already
Speaker 1: seeing a little bit of Ferrari's bona fides here, because
Speaker 1: he is the best kind of per some to run
Speaker 1: a racing company a former racer, and Alpha took control
Speaker 1: of its racing efforts again in nineteen thirty seven and
Speaker 1: they I guess you could phrase as a demotion. They
Speaker 1: moved his position Inzo's position to director of sports and
Speaker 1: he soldiered on. But in nineteen thirty nine he left
Speaker 1: Alfa Romeo uh, and he agreed to some terms that
Speaker 1: would later haunt him, a kind of exclusivity agreement. He
Speaker 1: said that he would not use the name Ferrari in
Speaker 1: relation to racing and racing cars for four years. But
Speaker 1: then World War two hit and it turned out that
Speaker 1: he and his company were quite cut out for helping
Speaker 1: build planes for the war effort. So it almost made
Speaker 1: it a moot point that he couldn't get right into
Speaker 1: building race cars and getting back into the racing game.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure he missed it very much. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's that's a good point, because world War two
Speaker 1: affected all auto manufacturers across the planet, including including Henry Ford.
Speaker 1: You're right, and right after the war ended, Ferrari had
Speaker 1: his chance when in nine he entered the twenty four
Speaker 1: hour at Lament Race and totally dominated and that became
Speaker 1: a fixture of that prestigious race. Ferrari reigned supreme, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ferrari one multiple Lament after that time, So it's no
Speaker 1: surprise that two is impressed when he sees Ferrari on
Speaker 1: the track because Ferrari is a known dominant force here,
Speaker 1: and two says to his brain trust, to his executives,
Speaker 1: to his entourage, he says, I want that one, and
Speaker 1: for some reason, I kind of picture it like a
Speaker 1: Rukas Sault and Charlie and the chocolate factory situation. I
Speaker 1: want that one and the here's how it works out.
Speaker 1: He sends his trusted emissary, a guy named Don Fry,
Speaker 1: to negotiate with Ferrari, and they propose an acquisition deal
Speaker 1: that hits the following points. Ford wants to buy a
Speaker 1: stake in the Italian company for eighteen million dollars. Under
Speaker 1: this agreement, it is important to say they would still
Speaker 1: be relying on Ferrari and Co's racing expertise. They're gonna
Speaker 1: actually spin that off into a racing division that would
Speaker 1: be called Ferrari Ford. But Ford had veto power over
Speaker 1: a few pretty important things, right, and this is where
Speaker 1: the this is where the discord seeps him because we
Speaker 1: we can't emphasize enough that we're talking about two very
Speaker 1: large personalities. That's the polite way to put it. And
Speaker 1: what happens is Ferrari, towards the very end of the
Speaker 1: deal decides he's not into it. And and this is
Speaker 1: the point where you'll begin to hear the conflicting accounts
Speaker 1: of how it went down, some of which is still
Speaker 1: in debate today. The Ferrari side says that they found
Speaker 1: a deal breaker in the agreement, and that deal breaker
Speaker 1: was the veto power that you mentioned will Uh, specifically
Speaker 1: in the idea that Ford, the larger company, would have
Speaker 1: to green light expenditures. Yeah. And I also actually in
Speaker 1: a film called The Twenty four Hour War that does
Speaker 1: a really good job of chronicling this whole beef situation. Um,
Speaker 1: it's mentioned that the points in contention had to do
Speaker 1: with the fact that Ford had the power to decide
Speaker 1: which races they participate in and which drivers to use,
Speaker 1: and the biggest one and so like spent his life
Speaker 1: in this industry, knew these cars, knew this game. He
Speaker 1: wasn't going to have some stuffed shirt American tell him
Speaker 1: what to do, right, And you'll hear on the Ford side,
Speaker 1: you'll hear people arguing that Ferrari was just looking for
Speaker 1: an excuse to not do the deal. But on the
Speaker 1: Ferrari side. These sound like understandable deal breakers, don't they
Speaker 1: It does, and it also was much, much, much smaller
Speaker 1: company than than Ford. And there was a sense, I
Speaker 1: believe from Ferrari that he didn't want to be swallowed
Speaker 1: up by this BMF bureaucracy. Right. We have the specific
Speaker 1: quote here from a book called for Gt. How Ford
Speaker 1: Silence the critics humbled Ferrari. And I'm not going to
Speaker 1: tell you the rest of the title because they don't
Speaker 1: want to give away the episode. But it's by an
Speaker 1: author named Preston Learner. And in the book, the quote
Speaker 1: from Enzo himself is this. Uh. He says he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to become another cog in what he describes as
Speaker 1: the enormous machine, the suffocating bureaucracy of the Ford Motor Company.
Speaker 1: I'm styling a little bit on that. I just want
Speaker 1: to be clear that he's using the name Ford Motor
Speaker 1: Company with intense opprobrium, you know. And so he he says,
Speaker 1: we can't agree to this. You can't choose the races.
Speaker 1: You can't choose the racers. I know them. I know
Speaker 1: the racers and the racing both. And if we want
Speaker 1: to spend money on something it should be up to
Speaker 1: me how we spend it, and spending money is going
Speaker 1: to become a big part of this story really soon. Um,
Speaker 1: I just want to pull a little bit of a
Speaker 1: quote from the review of this movie. Is Ford and
Speaker 1: Ferrari make racing a grudge match in The twenty four
Speaker 1: Hour War? Um, The twenty four Hour War is a
Speaker 1: somewhat jingoistic documentary about that celebrated and deadly dangerous feud,
Speaker 1: one that's spilled over from the boardrooms and onto the
Speaker 1: world's great race tracks for one, all the Marbles decade.
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to point that up because the
Speaker 1: film does kind of cast Ferrari as a bit of
Speaker 1: like a Bond villain type figure and antagonistic force. Yet
Speaker 1: and and the Ford folks are kind of portrayed as
Speaker 1: the great eric and heroes in the story. And as
Speaker 1: we just said, it is not nearly that cut and dry.
Speaker 1: This is a man who built a company with his
Speaker 1: bare hands from the ground up, and still it was
Speaker 1: in control of it as opposed to having it been
Speaker 1: passed down. Um. You know, for too, I don't think
Speaker 1: he was really much involved in the company before he
Speaker 1: kind of came out of the Navy to join up
Speaker 1: and and take it over from his father. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just think it's a little bit it's
Speaker 1: a little bit unfair the way the film has that
Speaker 1: kind of like adversarial, you know, divide there. I agree
Speaker 1: with that completely, because again, big personalities, they're not We're
Speaker 1: not saying either of them are villains, but we are
Speaker 1: saying When Don Fry comes back and says, sorry, boss
Speaker 1: that that dog doesn't hunt, what happens is four two
Speaker 1: is livid. He is furious. His bellows of anger are
Speaker 1: resounding throughout Ford Motor Company, and he says, screw this,
Speaker 1: screw you, no deal. You're right, no deal, and worse
Speaker 1: than no deal, I'm coming for you. And I think
Speaker 1: the quote that I saw is something along the lines
Speaker 1: of we're going to Lament and we're gonna beat his ass. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: if we if we can't join up with them, then
Speaker 1: by god, by golly, by gum, we're going to beat them.
Speaker 1: So Ford two says, I don't care about the cost.
Speaker 1: I don't care about the time. I don't care about
Speaker 1: who we need to hire. I don't care about what
Speaker 1: we need to build or where we need to find it.
Speaker 1: I will do anything within this company's power to beat
Speaker 1: this guy. So Ford had to, you know, he had
Speaker 1: he had a big job on his hands. He had
Speaker 1: to build a car from scratch in a game that
Speaker 1: they were not schooled in. Because that that's why they
Speaker 1: wanted to buy Ferrari in the first place. They didn't
Speaker 1: really have to know how or the team put together
Speaker 1: to match what Ferrari had been building for years and
Speaker 1: years and years um. And the car that ultimately would
Speaker 1: be the fruits of this uh beef was the GT forty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Ford g T forty g T standing for Grand
Speaker 1: Touring Vehicle. It was forty being the height of the
Speaker 1: roof I think yes, yeah, overall height forty. That's something
Speaker 1: that was required in racing rules at the time. It
Speaker 1: had a large splacement V eight engine, and they had
Speaker 1: to teach themselves a lot of things that they did
Speaker 1: not know as a car company. It wasn't in what
Speaker 1: corporate folks today would call their d n A. So
Speaker 1: going back to uh point we established earlier, they did
Speaker 1: something very very smart, which is they started pulling outside expertise.
Speaker 1: And again at this point we have to emphasize this
Speaker 1: racing is a very small world. People know each other.
Speaker 1: So if Ford is going around grabbing some experts, then
Speaker 1: all the other people are hearing about Inzo had to
Speaker 1: know that this was coming into Ferrari had to have
Speaker 1: some sort of spider sense about this at the at
Speaker 1: the minimum. But when you look at Enzo Ferrari and
Speaker 1: just the way he carried himself, I can picture him
Speaker 1: saying let him come. Oh yeah, absolutely, and that was
Speaker 1: more of a French accent. I can't really do Italian
Speaker 1: very well. I feel like if we try to do
Speaker 1: Italian we might both end up being offensive. Let's let's
Speaker 1: just keep it. Yeah, we'll just use the power of
Speaker 1: your imagination. Dear listening, Can I drop some g T
Speaker 1: forty specs as if I know anything about cars? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Please do So. It was a magnesium cast uh, and
Speaker 1: he had ninety two separate parts, which is a big deal.
Speaker 1: And every single element of this vehicle from the pedal
Speaker 1: to the hood were custom fabricated. Um. It was a
Speaker 1: unibody and it had as much detail and definition as
Speaker 1: anything that they would have made for mass production. More
Speaker 1: so probably because of the fact that it was for
Speaker 1: all into and purposes a custom job, right, and they used.
Speaker 1: One of the races that they did participate in was
Speaker 1: the Indianapolis five hundred, which I think is one of
Speaker 1: the Indie five hundred. Is one of the things that
Speaker 1: really soured the deal between Ferrari. That was one of
Speaker 1: the races that he would not be allowed to participate
Speaker 1: in because Ford didn't want competition because they would get
Speaker 1: their ass kicked probably. And when they started building the
Speaker 1: g T forty, they were using, Asnal said, a lot
Speaker 1: of custom design. They were using a lot of lessons
Speaker 1: learned from their Indie five hundred project. So they also started,
Speaker 1: as we said, pulling in a couple of different luminaries
Speaker 1: of the time. They spoke with Colin Chapman, legendary driving
Speaker 1: force behind Lotus, and they also negotiated with Lola and Cooper,
Speaker 1: and Cooper at the time was known for Formula One,
Speaker 1: but they were kind of in a decline at the
Speaker 1: time and they had no experience in GT or prototype building.
Speaker 1: I think one of the features that I should have
Speaker 1: mentioned that is a hallmark of the g T forty
Speaker 1: is that it was very low, very low to the ground,
Speaker 1: yet very low to the ground, which is important in
Speaker 1: racing there and equally important to with the with the
Speaker 1: vehicle itself is the race in which they decided this
Speaker 1: beef would culminate, and that brought them to the most
Speaker 1: prestigious race in Europe at the time, The Hour of Lament.
Speaker 1: Can you give us a little bit of a scoop
Speaker 1: on what that race is all about. I know at
Speaker 1: the top of the show I made it clear that
Speaker 1: I only recently discovered what one of these races even about,
Speaker 1: but I still am a little in the dark about
Speaker 1: the legacy of this course. Oh boy, okay, uh this
Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy this. So the two Lament is named
Speaker 1: after the town, the closest town to where it occurs,
Speaker 1: which is Lament in France. It's the world's oldest sports
Speaker 1: car race that's still active. It's been held since nine three,
Speaker 1: with I believe a a couple of wartime complications World
Speaker 1: War two stuff, but this has for the longest time
Speaker 1: been one of the hallmarks of any racing company. If
Speaker 1: you walk away with a victory at Lament, then your
Speaker 1: cars are sold because it's about endurance, right right. Instead
Speaker 1: of focusing on just the fastest machine, the Lament concentrates
Speaker 1: on the ability to build cars that are both sporty
Speaker 1: and reliable, so the vehicles have to have fantastic handling,
Speaker 1: they have to still be aerodynamic and stable at high speeds.
Speaker 1: And the race begins in mid afternoon and ends the
Speaker 1: following day at the same hour. It literally is twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. And there are other races that are like
Speaker 1: twelve hours right right, the other endurance races that approach
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. But Laman was one of the
Speaker 1: first to do this. So how does that differentiate from
Speaker 1: say like Talladega or Datona, Like, what's the difference. So
Speaker 1: one of the differences, well, let's take let's take in
Speaker 1: since we're talking about that one. So one of the
Speaker 1: differences with INDE five hundred is that the drivers race
Speaker 1: a specific number of laps. They race two hundred laps counterclockwise,
Speaker 1: they go five hundred miles. So there's this there's this
Speaker 1: specific thing in terms of distance as a rating. However,
Speaker 1: in Laman it's get as far as you can within
Speaker 1: that span of twenty four hours, cover the most distance
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours without your car catching on fire,
Speaker 1: without getting in a rack. And it's at night too.
Speaker 1: It's like they go, they go and just to drop
Speaker 1: a few little interesting nuggets about Lament and racing in
Speaker 1: these days. In general, in the sixties, motor racing was
Speaker 1: absurdly violent, death was commonplace. Um. The nineteen fifty five
Speaker 1: Lament had one of the most horrific crashes in racing history.
Speaker 1: UH A car exploded, killing around ninety people when flaming
Speaker 1: debris rocketed into the packed seats. People didn't typically wear
Speaker 1: seat belts because part of the thing at Lament is
Speaker 1: you have to run from across the track and hop
Speaker 1: into your car and then get going. A lot of
Speaker 1: times they didn't feel like taking the time to put
Speaker 1: on their seatbelts. Um. And not to mention that fires
Speaker 1: and explosions were so common that they wanted to be
Speaker 1: able to escape, right, That's why they because the seatbelt
Speaker 1: might be as dangerous to you in their view as
Speaker 1: not wearing one. Yeah, the Laman disaster didn't just change Lament,
Speaker 1: it changed motor sports entirely. And it actually the catastrophe.
Speaker 1: I think we mentioned around ninety people died, eighty three
Speaker 1: spectators definitely, some driver died as well. There were almost
Speaker 1: two hundred injuries. Eighty people at least got injured, and
Speaker 1: this actually led Mercedes Bings to retire from racing until
Speaker 1: nineteen nine. In ninety seven, there was another race called
Speaker 1: the Meal Miglia Road Race, and there were five Ferraris
Speaker 1: in that race. Uh. One of them that was driven
Speaker 1: by a racer over the name of Alfonso de Portago,
Speaker 1: had a tire blowout careemed into the crowd of spectators.
Speaker 1: He was killed, his co driver was killed, and a
Speaker 1: number of spectators, including five children, were killed. Um. And
Speaker 1: and this comes from the twenty four hour War. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is really fascinating to me. An Italian law, when
Speaker 1: someone is killed in a car, the manufacturer was held
Speaker 1: accountable in those days, so in Zo Ferrari himself was
Speaker 1: called before the law and had to plead his case.
Speaker 1: He was investigated, but ultimately found innocent because it was
Speaker 1: a racing accident and everyone knew what they were signing
Speaker 1: up for when they stand on the sidelines and watch
Speaker 1: these crazy things. And if you see the old footage
Speaker 1: of these kinds of races, you'll notice that the spectators
Speaker 1: are right next to these vehicles. Then they're going at
Speaker 1: insane curves and sane speeds over two d and fifty
Speaker 1: miles I think top speeds in those days. Nowadays it's
Speaker 1: mandated that they can't go that fast. Yeah, that's true,
Speaker 1: and it depends upon the race. But most races now
Speaker 1: will have pretty stringent safety requirements and things still go
Speaker 1: horribly wrong at times. But when we look at Ferrari
Speaker 1: and Lament, despite the despite the dangers, despite the court case,
Speaker 1: despite the deaths and the injuries and the catastrophic accidents,
Speaker 1: Ferrari is dominating, and they're dominating the most important race
Speaker 1: in the world. We should also say that that track
Speaker 1: they're driving on for twenty four hours was at the
Speaker 1: time eight point four miles long. From the fifties to
Speaker 1: the mid sixties, Ferrari cars were dominating the event. Between
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight and nineteen sixty five, Ferrari vehicles and
Speaker 1: drivers won seven of the eight races, which you know
Speaker 1: makes them the equivalent for sports fans. Their winning streak
Speaker 1: is is similar to the winning streak of the New
Speaker 1: England Patriots or the New York Yankees, irritating, irritating to
Speaker 1: everyone else. Right, Okay, so we're in nineteen sixty four now,
Speaker 1: are Ford makes its debut of the g T forty
Speaker 1: at Lament. Millions are tuning in. This is like the
Speaker 1: Battle of the Titans of Industry. Like we described at
Speaker 1: the top of the show, crowds were bigger than they
Speaker 1: had ever been. Uh. There were three GT forties in
Speaker 1: the race and they were by far the lowest cars.
Speaker 1: It was like a design that was not as common. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: these things look like space aliens, Like are they suppose
Speaker 1: to be there? Is this? Is this a race? How
Speaker 1: the heck are these vehicles going to perform against all
Speaker 1: these tried and true racing teams that perfected art over
Speaker 1: decades and spoiler alert, not well yeah, not well, not
Speaker 1: well at all, including a fiery explosion. Unluckily no one
Speaker 1: was killed, but not a single Ford got anywhere near
Speaker 1: the finish line. No, not at all. It was for
Speaker 1: a first swing out. It was pretty disastrous and it
Speaker 1: proved a lot of the skepticism that racing fans had
Speaker 1: about Ford entering in for the first time. Everybody was thinking, Ah,
Speaker 1: there's no way, this is too new, they don't have
Speaker 1: experience and this is a dangerous endeavor. So to Ford
Speaker 1: two was understandably livid, and he was like, We're going
Speaker 1: to make whatever changes we have to make to beat
Speaker 1: that sexy, sexy Italian man, and so those are my
Speaker 1: words this well, it's I think it's a good paraphrase.
Speaker 1: That quote was based on a true story. So so
Speaker 1: here we go. There's you know again such anger and
Speaker 1: vim from for two and he says, you know what,
Speaker 1: I need more experts. I need more people to help
Speaker 1: me in my vendetta. So he finds, uh, some more
Speaker 1: folks to help them, and one of them is the
Speaker 1: legendary Carol Shelby. He's probably the most important other player
Speaker 1: in this story. Shelby drove and some of the first
Speaker 1: races in American history in Watkins Glen, New York. There's
Speaker 1: a story in that he tells himself in the Twenty
Speaker 1: four Hour War. He says he got his license when
Speaker 1: he was fourteen and immediately got pulled over by the police.
Speaker 1: Were driving his father's thirty four Dodge eighty five min,
Speaker 1: which would have been an insane speed for for that car.
Speaker 1: Right then, Yes, absolutely well, and you can find a
Speaker 1: pretty interesting argument for this in another another book called
Speaker 1: Go Like hell Ford Ferrari in their Battle for Speed
Speaker 1: and Glory at Lament, when they got Carol Shelby on
Speaker 1: the team, it was kind of like when the Avengers
Speaker 1: got thor or something, someone with honest, honest superpowers, and
Speaker 1: they began working with him. Don Fries still in the mix,
Speaker 1: as was Leo Biebe, and they said, you know what,
Speaker 1: Shelby is going to take the lessons from our less
Speaker 1: than awesome performance and show us how to make this
Speaker 1: something that isn't dismal. So they handed the program over
Speaker 1: to Shelby. After a nineteen sixty four Nassau race, they
Speaker 1: sent the cars directly to Shelby, like they didn't even
Speaker 1: wash them, dude, they were still dirty. And they were like,
Speaker 1: all right, he's in, just send him, now, send him,
Speaker 1: Send him. Shelby was a really punchy character too. He
Speaker 1: actually won lament as a racer in despite having serious
Speaker 1: health problems. He had a heart condition and is said
Speaker 1: to have raced with a nitro glycer and tap under
Speaker 1: his tongue. Uh. And then he went on and actually
Speaker 1: got support from Ford to build his own after he
Speaker 1: retired from racing, to build his own sports cars. So
Speaker 1: he went to Lee I A Coca who was a
Speaker 1: big time executive, and pitched him on this idea of
Speaker 1: making American sports cars. I Coca. It sounded like he
Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of him. So he gave him
Speaker 1: a few engines and some money and said, do your thing.
Speaker 1: And they made this car called the Cobra with this
Speaker 1: team of kind of rag tag team of folks from
Speaker 1: across all over the place, like he had experts, hot
Speaker 1: rod experts from all over the world, and it performed.
Speaker 1: They did well at all of the big races, and
Speaker 1: they won Lament in nineteen sixty four with the model
Speaker 1: of this Cobrad. They called the Daytona Coup because they
Speaker 1: had made it specifically for Daytona. But that is when
Speaker 1: Ford was like, Okay, I like this kid. I like
Speaker 1: the cut of his jib. I like the cut of
Speaker 1: his bib overalls, which he apparently wore a lot. And
Speaker 1: and a dream team was born. Yes, the dream team
Speaker 1: was born. And he also had a common villain in
Speaker 1: Enzo Ferrari, because Shelby, you see, also was not a
Speaker 1: fan of Ferrari, or at least Ferrari hated him because
Speaker 1: Ferrari had been beaten by Shelby at Lament in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty nine. When Shelby was driving for Aston, Martin tried
Speaker 1: to recruit him as well to drive for him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Shelby said, Nah, again, this is another contankerous guy.
Speaker 1: Shelby often complained before that the cars were terribly maintained.
Speaker 1: Sort of what am I supposed to do with this situation?
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty five they were there at Lamont
Speaker 1: driving a new version of the g T forty called
Speaker 1: the Mark two, and they started out doing really well.
Speaker 1: People thought, hey, this might change the racing game. But again,
Speaker 1: over that twenty four hour period, all of their cars
Speaker 1: were forced out of the race by mechanical bugs. They
Speaker 1: there was even a story where one of the racers
Speaker 1: had to push his car for a few miles. And
Speaker 1: I think there was even a thing where for the
Speaker 1: last minute insisted they switch out the engines to like
Speaker 1: a newer engine that they had done, and that last
Speaker 1: minute shuffle kind of screwed them over a little bit,
Speaker 1: and um maybe caused some of those mechanical failure. I
Speaker 1: think there was an issue of bolts that had expanded
Speaker 1: and cracked and just caused some problems because of that
Speaker 1: last minute switch. Right. And we should also say nine
Speaker 1: it's the same year that Ford showed off these gts
Speaker 1: that they would later use in Lamon, and even the
Speaker 1: Ford Company wasn't able to estimate how much they cost.
Speaker 1: They like didn't know. And I saw an article on
Speaker 1: thrill lists that that used the phrase a budget of
Speaker 1: roughly infinity. Yeah, yeah, say, which will about Ford too.
Speaker 1: He was serious when he was beefed up. So they
Speaker 1: don't take this punch on the chin lightly. They come
Speaker 1: back the very next next year and they have fixed
Speaker 1: these various problems. They've taken the lessons learned, and they
Speaker 1: come back with even better cars. And nineteen sixty six
Speaker 1: is when everything changes for Ford, Lament, Ferrari and the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they decided they had to kind of think about
Speaker 1: the problem differently, and they abandoned the smaller engines in
Speaker 1: favor of what has become termed as big block cars
Speaker 1: um because they needed more horsepower and that was how
Speaker 1: they would get the edge on the zippy light smaller
Speaker 1: engined set of thing. Ferraris, Yeah, so they did institute
Speaker 1: the big block That's absolutely correct, And they had some
Speaker 1: experience leading up to nineteen sixty six, Lament, because they
Speaker 1: won the twenty four hours of Daytona and the twelve
Speaker 1: Hours of Spring before with this big block forward that
Speaker 1: Nol just mentioned. They also sent a lot of cars.
Speaker 1: They sent eight g t O Mark two's with three teams,
Speaker 1: three teams by Shelby American, three teams by Homan and Moody,
Speaker 1: and two by Alan Man Racing. So again we're seeing
Speaker 1: that Ford is pulling in the expertise of these pre
Speaker 1: existing racing geniuses. Ferrari, in contrast, only sent I think
Speaker 1: too Ferrari three th P three's to compete, and that
Speaker 1: was sent by them directly. There was not a fit
Speaker 1: called an art that entered another P three And then
Speaker 1: there were four cars entered by Ferrari's private partners. They
Speaker 1: were going to have John Surtees racing with them, but surprise,
Speaker 1: he had a I'm doing air quotes here. No, he
Speaker 1: had a falling out with Ferrari management. So it sounds
Speaker 1: like inso got in another argument of some sort. So
Speaker 1: this race is insane, and behind the scenes, Ford is
Speaker 1: so certain that they're going to win that they tell
Speaker 1: two of their drivers that they think are going to
Speaker 1: be in the front lines. They tell them that they
Speaker 1: want them to finish at the same time. And that's
Speaker 1: to drive home the fact that it was the car
Speaker 1: and not necessarily the drivers that accounted for the victory right,
Speaker 1: because drivers, as you could imagine, might have a bit
Speaker 1: of ego. So they said, yeah, we want to show
Speaker 1: that it is the superiority of us as manufacturers, not
Speaker 1: just the individuals behind the wheel. Should we play a
Speaker 1: clip from that stunning conclusion? Fantastic? And here they come
Speaker 1: for the finish first place, the number two for GT
Speaker 1: second place, the number one for GT third place, the
Speaker 1: number five for GT an authoritative win for the American Challengers.
Speaker 1: So not only does Ford take first place in this event,
Speaker 1: but they also take second and right second and third.
Speaker 1: The number two, UH four g T forty takes first place,
Speaker 1: the number one takes second place, and the number five
Speaker 1: takes third place. And this is one of those moments
Speaker 1: in history where you have to wonder what Enzo Ferrari's
Speaker 1: face looked like. It's probably like a bit of a scowl, yeah,
Speaker 1: but probably wasn't a big cheese eaten grin. He always
Speaker 1: looked a little DeMier. I wonder if you ever changed
Speaker 1: his expression much. Yeah. You know, he's a guy who
Speaker 1: had a lot on his mind, and I know we're
Speaker 1: dinging him a little bit, but we we want to
Speaker 1: again highlight that there's not really a bad guy in
Speaker 1: this story, it's just two people who really hated each
Speaker 1: other and because of their mmity, because they were so
Speaker 1: beefed up, they managed to make a beautiful car that
Speaker 1: changed the world. And in the documentary, Ferrari's son Um
Speaker 1: has a pretty chill attitude about the whole thing and
Speaker 1: has some really nice things to say about Ford and
Speaker 1: very even handled with this thing about this Um. So
Speaker 1: then the next year, of course, Ford returns to Lament
Speaker 1: and adding insult to injury, uh wipes the floor with
Speaker 1: Ferrari yet again, with wins In in for a second
Speaker 1: and third place once again. Yeah, yep, absolutely they mop
Speaker 1: up once again. And this changes the concept of who
Speaker 1: can win a race globally. Also, it creates a new model.
Speaker 1: So the same kind of innovation in terms of assembly
Speaker 1: and distribution and output that the original Ford company had
Speaker 1: building the Model T in the Model A is still
Speaker 1: going strong in Ford in the sixties here because they
Speaker 1: have unveiled a new model for manufacturers and the model
Speaker 1: is providing money and internal research and design while farming
Speaker 1: out the actual racing to the profect channels. This didn't
Speaker 1: just change the operations at Laman, but also changed the
Speaker 1: operations in Formula one, NASCAR other other world famous racing events.
Speaker 1: And additionally, this is something that stayed with Ford as
Speaker 1: a manufacturer because in two thousand and sixteen, to celebrate
Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary, they attempted to execute the same sort
Speaker 1: of coup and they're more or less dead, they're more
Speaker 1: or lested. They didn't win uh Porshaw one that year
Speaker 1: and portsche has been dominating a lot of lamon so
Speaker 1: they didn't win, but they did come back and they
Speaker 1: they tried to take some of the innovations that they
Speaker 1: have in their street level cars and make a racing
Speaker 1: car out of them. So these an eco boost engine
Speaker 1: which was a little bit smaller too, and well, you know, well,
Speaker 1: and I would say the takeaway here for me is
Speaker 1: that Ford was kind of a big fat baby honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, because Ferrari was doing them all since the
Speaker 1: beginning and continue doing it in that fifty year uh span,
Speaker 1: where Ford was not, and they only came back to
Speaker 1: kind of thumb their nose at their old rivals again.
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, Ford too wanted to
Speaker 1: make a point and he did it and then he
Speaker 1: was kind of I'm out, So I don't know. I
Speaker 1: would argue it's it's a little childish. He's just not
Speaker 1: the kind of guy I would want to play Monopoly
Speaker 1: or cards with. You know what I mean? I think
Speaker 1: you have a Ruca Saul kind of figure. He could
Speaker 1: take you no real hard. But this, this concludes one
Speaker 1: of the one of the most ridiculous stories of pettiness
Speaker 1: is spitefulness in racing. And I would argue that it
Speaker 1: has a happy ending because the four g T is
Speaker 1: a beautiful vehicle. Cool car, cool car, cool car, and
Speaker 1: Ferraris are still too expensive for anyone to right. Right,
Speaker 1: we do have someone in our building who owns a Ferrari.
Speaker 1: I used to sneak up and look at it. Quick story.
Speaker 1: I was on an emotional ruler coaster. Noal. I couldn't
Speaker 1: decide if I liked the guy because one time I
Speaker 1: went up there and he was double parked in a
Speaker 1: parking spot and I thought, I get it, man, but
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't don't buy the car. So I
Speaker 1: did some investigation and Scott car Stuff co host did
Speaker 1: some as well, and it turns out the guys paying
Speaker 1: for both parking spots, So he's an ethical double Parker. Oh,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's that is a we got a
Speaker 1: double happy ending here, he did. We did. Let us
Speaker 1: know your position on double parking. Uh, let us know
Speaker 1: if there are any particular car brands that when you
Speaker 1: see them on the road, you immediately despise the owner. Ben,
Speaker 1: I believe for you that is the Odyssey, Honda Odyssey, right,
Speaker 1: that still hold true. Well, the thing about Honda Odyssey is,
Speaker 1: I think when you buy it, the dealers give you
Speaker 1: a discount if you agree to have a sensor installed
Speaker 1: that makes your car go twenty miles an hour whenever
Speaker 1: I'm in traffic with it. Yep, yeah, that's probably true.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous a house to works dot com, social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: ridiculous history blasting through these because this was a long one,
Speaker 1: but um thanks to super producer Casey Yeah, thanks to
Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed the track. Thanks to Henry Ford
Speaker 1: too and Enzo Ferrari, and most importantly, thanks to you, folks,
Speaker 1: and we hope you join us next time when Noel
Speaker 1: and I are using our world famous time machine to
Speaker 1: travel to the Wild West. Get along, little doggies,