Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys, We guys book. Christ
Speaker 1: I'm We're sorry about last night anti sluck shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I never stopped. Hey, fucker's how you doing? Welcome to
Speaker 1: another episode a Guys We Fucked. It's the anti slut
Speaker 1: shaming podcast. I'm Karin, I'm Christina. In today's news story
Speaker 1: is about the Netflix series Insatiable, which I stayed up
Speaker 1: all night talking to my friends. Uh, Dolly Alderton in
Speaker 1: uh the u K about who has a great podcast,
Speaker 1: who's basically like they do like the They're like the
Speaker 1: UKs or maybe we're the We're maybe we're the American
Speaker 1: but anyway, so it's of course Netflix is accused of
Speaker 1: fat shaming and stars defend the show. So some of
Speaker 1: you guys have been tagging us in stuff about this.
Speaker 1: There is a person in the UK who has like
Speaker 1: a feminist blog flash Instagram. I'm not even going to
Speaker 1: name her because that's how much I hate her. Uh,
Speaker 1: and she started a petition to take down to stop
Speaker 1: this series because it's triggered a lot of people's eating disorders.
Speaker 1: And what's the series is written called Insatiable? It's it's
Speaker 1: written by someone this is someone's personal experience. Um, and also,
Speaker 1: god forbid she talked about It's just it's just infuriating,
Speaker 1: especially after everyone just finished sucking Netflix is dick about
Speaker 1: in the net, and now it's like, oh, something that
Speaker 1: goes it goes in a different direction. Art that doesn't
Speaker 1: express my exact point of view, and it triggered me
Speaker 1: and kind of like, I don't mean this insensitively. It
Speaker 1: is an eating disorder is a serious thing. Of course,
Speaker 1: it exists. Of Course, your experience is relative, and it
Speaker 1: sucks if you've had an eating disorder. However, if you
Speaker 1: have an eating disorder and you and a Netflix show
Speaker 1: keeps triggering it, you have not watching the show. Turn
Speaker 1: if you're Netflix number one, and also go back to
Speaker 1: a therapist. Truly, this is not county because you have
Speaker 1: not conquered that eating disorder. If a TV show is
Speaker 1: triggering it, truly, it's you have a lot of work
Speaker 1: to do and we all have ship. That's okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were just talking about. We were just talking about
Speaker 1: like I have, For instance, I have O c D
Speaker 1: really bad. But like when Lena Dunham got a fucking
Speaker 1: cute tips stuck in her ear on Girls, which I
Speaker 1: thought was a pretty chitty poor trayal of O c D.
Speaker 1: I didn't get a petition together to to trake off girls.
Speaker 1: I just laughed myself and go, that's not what it
Speaker 1: was like for me, and I moved on with my
Speaker 1: fucking life. Yeah, and we we seem to be like
Speaker 1: the comedians seemed to be the only fucking people who
Speaker 1: can handle this ship. Were real comedians to be honest,
Speaker 1: that can handle the ship. There's a comedian that Krid
Speaker 1: and I both know, who I follow on Instagram who
Speaker 1: his posts were offending me. They were kissing me off,
Speaker 1: they were making me I rate. A lot of it
Speaker 1: was about like pro life portoy ship, and but I
Speaker 1: like the guy, so I just unfollowed him and that's
Speaker 1: all I did. And my life is right. You don't
Speaker 1: have to fucking jump up and down in the air
Speaker 1: and to be like you said that and it hurt
Speaker 1: my feelings. You can have your feelings, but whatever they are,
Speaker 1: and then move on. Yeah. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people keep tagging us in this fucking ship, this,
Speaker 1: this ship, this is ship, um about things that you
Speaker 1: think because it kind of is under this feminist umbrella
Speaker 1: that we're definitely gonna agree with anything we're doing against
Speaker 1: censoring art or against free speech. We're never gonna agree
Speaker 1: with um. And that includes calling someone like a juice
Speaker 1: cumb like I'm a Jew and I think we live
Speaker 1: in America. If you want to call if you want
Speaker 1: to march peacefully and yelled juice coum when people yelled
Speaker 1: juice comb at people. Uh well, I mean the right
Speaker 1: really hates Jews. That's like kind of their main thing, um,
Speaker 1: and just yell it. But I don't know. That's part
Speaker 1: of why I love America because you can yell I
Speaker 1: hate Jews, um, Yeah, and you don't have to like it.
Speaker 1: You can aggressively yelling in a jewice face. I mean,
Speaker 1: but that's an offense because it's aggressive and it's considered
Speaker 1: a threat. Yeah. But if you just want to get
Speaker 1: together with a group of people and be like, we
Speaker 1: hate Jews, you can, and God bless America for that.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't have to like that, but
Speaker 1: I can still respect that that is your right. Yes,
Speaker 1: So anyway, I want to get into this article just
Speaker 1: so we know a little bit more about it. The
Speaker 1: stars of an upcoming Netflix series about a teenage girl
Speaker 1: who goes from overweight outcast to thin beauty seeking revenge.
Speaker 1: Have defended the show amid a wave of backlash. Actresses
Speaker 1: Alissa Milano and Debbie Ryan, both of whom star in
Speaker 1: the dark team comedy Insatiable, which debuts on Netflix on
Speaker 1: August tenth. And I will be watching it, Justina, Well,
Speaker 1: it hasn't even aired. Nope, the um the uh? What's
Speaker 1: the trailer? Triggered people? I can't you guys come the
Speaker 1: funk on? I posted on Twitter and defense of the
Speaker 1: show after droves of online commenter said the series appeared
Speaker 1: to be fat shaming its lead character while playing into
Speaker 1: a dangerous narrative. We are dressing through Uh, we are
Speaker 1: dressing through comedy. The damage that occurs from fat shaming.
Speaker 1: I hope that clears it up. Milano responded to a
Speaker 1: Twitter user who called the miss of the show disgusting. However,
Speaker 1: many of the responses to Milano's tweets still decried this
Speaker 1: series as tone deaf. Insatiable story tells the story of Patty,
Speaker 1: played by Ryan, a teenager bully to high school for
Speaker 1: the way she looks. In the newly released trailer, other
Speaker 1: students refer to Ryan's character as Fatty Patty and posts
Speaker 1: pictures of her face on a pig's body on her locker,
Speaker 1: which so far is just exactly what happens in school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a bullying or that's how being a fucking woman
Speaker 1: in the entertainment business. I love. My favorite thing about
Speaker 1: these people complaining is I was like, Oh, spend one
Speaker 1: day as me on Instagram? You fun faces. I'm so
Speaker 1: angry right now. One summer, Patty gets her jaw wired shut,
Speaker 1: loses weight, and comes back to school looking unrecognizable and
Speaker 1: conventionally a tryperbolic story. Yeah, obviously, And I mean I'm
Speaker 1: not even if I'm not even saying this is funny,
Speaker 1: but if it's it's not it's not that funny because
Speaker 1: it's it's offensive. If anything, it's like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: a little hack or like porn, but it's obviously not real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not real anyway, so um she And and also
Speaker 1: and also if you are living in such a bubble
Speaker 1: that you don't think parts of your life would be
Speaker 1: easier if you were hotter, or if that is not
Speaker 1: what fucking American culture is based on and obsessed with,
Speaker 1: for adding and against been one day in the goddamn
Speaker 1: entertainment business. Um. She decides she can join any click
Speaker 1: in the school, but instead wants revenge on her bullies.
Speaker 1: Patty is coached by failed attorney Bob Armstrong played by
Speaker 1: Dallas Roberts, whose true aspiration is to coach pageant queens.
Speaker 1: Melano plays Bob's wife, Kimmy Shields. The show's tagline bills
Speaker 1: the series as a coming of rage story. On Saturday,
Speaker 1: Ryan posted a long statement on Twitter saying that she
Speaker 1: was excited to work on Insatiable because the series tackles
Speaker 1: the shame women feel about their bodies through satire and
Speaker 1: enter difficult conversations twelve years after my own struggles with
Speaker 1: body image, I was drawn to this show's willingness to
Speaker 1: go to real places about difficult and scary it can
Speaker 1: be to move through the world in a body, whether
Speaker 1: you're being praised or criticized for its size, and what
Speaker 1: it feels like to pray to be ignored because it's
Speaker 1: easier than being seen, Ryan wrote. Ryan also said that
Speaker 1: she and the show's writer and showrunner, Lauren Gustus I'm
Speaker 1: sorry I'm mispronouncing that felt it was important that in
Speaker 1: scenes where Patty was heavier, Her size was not used
Speaker 1: as a punchline, and the abuse the character suffers is
Speaker 1: never justified. Gusus also put on her out her own
Speaker 1: statement on Twitter, saying that she was suicidal as a
Speaker 1: teen uh and that she wanted revenge on her own bullies.
Speaker 1: She said this caused her to develop an eating disorder
Speaker 1: and the kind of rage that makes you want to
Speaker 1: do dark things. This show is a cautionary tale about
Speaker 1: how damaging it can be to believe the outsiders are
Speaker 1: more important to judge. Without going deeper, Gusus wrote, please
Speaker 1: give the show a chance. Still, users on Twitter are
Speaker 1: already criticizing Insatiable. What purpose do the false sexual assault
Speaker 1: accusations in the script serve? Though? Actress mar Wilson wrote,
Speaker 1: seemingly responding to an undisclosed plot line in the show,
Speaker 1: and I don't know the way she got a screener
Speaker 1: or some ship. Well, mar Wilson is in the industry,
Speaker 1: so she could have seen something ahead of time. But again,
Speaker 1: like her handle also said, like has stopped the nazeason it,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna take out the Nazi something like that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it with a great assault. I mean
Speaker 1: it should be stopped. But I'm just gonna remember her
Speaker 1: Matilda and move on with my life. Um. In a
Speaker 1: Twitter thread, Nobella Nor, a beauty vlogger, wrote the trailer
Speaker 1: quote repelled her and asked for a show. I mean
Speaker 1: our kids getting fucked in this and asked for a show.
Speaker 1: We're an overweight girl loves herself as she is, which
Speaker 1: we've seen before. We're seen it. And also, but if
Speaker 1: you're an over project did a great job of that.
Speaker 1: But if you're an overweight girl, you don't have If
Speaker 1: you don't love yourself, it's okay, like and if you do,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. And if you're a hot girl and you
Speaker 1: don't love yourself, well welcome to the club. We're all
Speaker 1: mad at you too, cos on out in any world
Speaker 1: is weight loss from a job being foreshut inspiring? Do
Speaker 1: they know what that implies? Nor wrote, adding it's satire,
Speaker 1: adding in her final post that she hopes the show
Speaker 1: will still surprise her. Netflix, which declined to comment on
Speaker 1: the backlash around Insatiable. Recently, UH received criticism from mental
Speaker 1: health experts following the debut of the second season of
Speaker 1: its original series Thirteen Reasons Why. The first and second
Speaker 1: season of the series had graphic depictions of suicide, sexual assault,
Speaker 1: drug use, and gun boys because that stuff never happened.
Speaker 1: And at the end of this number, they're like, if
Speaker 1: they give a fucking national prevention lifeline number and a
Speaker 1: national eating desert a helpline, because that's really helpful. Uh.
Speaker 1: Just I am just so I just we we talked
Speaker 1: about this, you know, kind of all day with friends
Speaker 1: and I and I actually went to uh, what's her name,
Speaker 1: Lauren guss uh Instagram and kind of just like said, hey,
Speaker 1: because I just looked at her actress. This is the writer,
Speaker 1: um and I who had this experience with eating this exactly,
Speaker 1: who was suicidal over her own disorder, and and like,
Speaker 1: this is we are not saying no one is forcing
Speaker 1: you to deal with your eating disorder through humor. What
Speaker 1: we're saying is everyone heals in different ways, and for
Speaker 1: people like Christina and I, we this is the kind
Speaker 1: of ship that's going to stop us from jumping off
Speaker 1: a bridge laughing. That's why I didn't haven't killed myself exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's like, if not the right thing for you,
Speaker 1: you turn off insatiable and you go to that over eater.
Speaker 1: It's an honest man meeting you, whatever it is that
Speaker 1: works for you, But do not fucking just because something
Speaker 1: triggers you does not mean that it cannot be around.
Speaker 1: Like there's no You're never gonna live in a world
Speaker 1: that has no fucking trigger. And I know I kind
Speaker 1: of feel sometimes I I'm like, God, I hope we
Speaker 1: don't sound like holier than that by telling people to
Speaker 1: get the funk over themselves and stopping such a pussy.
Speaker 1: But I really do every day well, I you know,
Speaker 1: we do this subject line Sunday ship. So I'm reading
Speaker 1: through our email subject lines every day and I can't
Speaker 1: tell you how any emails we get every single week
Speaker 1: from I'm in love with my rapists, I fucked my
Speaker 1: best friends rapists, or my dad the most uncomfortable, nauseating sometimes,
Speaker 1: but that is life. You can't run away from the
Speaker 1: discomforts of Life's you fux okay, and you gotta you gotta.
Speaker 1: It's gonna behoove you to to be able to get
Speaker 1: good at sitting in that discomfort. I feel uncomfortable every
Speaker 1: goddamn day over a lot of things. I'm presented with
Speaker 1: scenarios that are real life, not even a fucking television show.
Speaker 1: That make some of these emails make me so fucking uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: and I've learned that that is life. Yeah. I literally
Speaker 1: have an anxiety disorder that was like blown out of
Speaker 1: proportion by the emails that we get on this podcast.
Speaker 1: And you know what, I was like, I'm gonna keep
Speaker 1: doing the podcast and go fucking deal with us on
Speaker 1: my own goddamn time. Yes, and the people who have
Speaker 1: experiences is these terrible things. I just you, guys, liberty
Speaker 1: liberals the definition of liberty, liberty, and justice for motherfuckers,
Speaker 1: I mean that too, but also like the definition of
Speaker 1: we're We've been talking about this a lot in l A.
Speaker 1: The definition of liberal and liberty. Liberty protect the American
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Union. They protect people's liberty to free speech,
Speaker 1: even if you belong to a terrible hate group that
Speaker 1: opposes everything to my core that I believe in. I
Speaker 1: still support your right to peacefully protests, for example. And
Speaker 1: it's like, I just I just want to remind everybody
Speaker 1: that that's the definition of liberal. To censor what somebody's
Speaker 1: saying is not liberal, and I feel like people are
Speaker 1: waving this liberal flag. I just I can't I can't
Speaker 1: yet figure out why people are doing this, Why this
Speaker 1: blogger chick finds it to be so helpful to start
Speaker 1: a protest to end this fucking Netflix show that she
Speaker 1: hasn't even fucking seen, nor has anybody, instead of actually
Speaker 1: making a difference in a real way. Yeah, well it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like with all, you're not doing anything.
Speaker 1: Things are going on in the world, and your and
Speaker 1: your your platform is a chance dot org petition to
Speaker 1: get insatiable off Netflix. Can just see that out allowed
Speaker 1: in the mirror to your stays. Please say that allowed
Speaker 1: in the mirror to because and know that there are
Speaker 1: so many amazing things that you could be doing to
Speaker 1: be helping young men and women and undecided genders, to
Speaker 1: to help them overcome their eating disorder, or to to
Speaker 1: help educate them on where to get help. That's something
Speaker 1: that would fucking help. And yes, I've had two red bulls,
Speaker 1: but I'm very angry. But I I tweeted today, I
Speaker 1: was like, I tweeted the same I said. Reactions to
Speaker 1: art prior to seventeen, I liked it, be didn't like it.
Speaker 1: Reactions to art seen to present a banet be act
Speaker 1: like person who made it is God because they figure
Speaker 1: out how to make you feel important and special even
Speaker 1: though you're not. And it's like, and I'm including myself
Speaker 1: in that group but in or special no matter how
Speaker 1: many times I tell myself in the mirror that I
Speaker 1: am because like I secretly feel like but like everyone
Speaker 1: should secretly feel like they are. That's like the key too,
Speaker 1: like yourself and like and and and So, just to
Speaker 1: wrap up this conversation about fucking body, Christina and I
Speaker 1: have been doing this new bit. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: ruin the entire bit um because it's kind of the
Speaker 1: opener for the Bridge of Bishop tour. So we you know,
Speaker 1: we're in l A. Now. L A is usually where
Speaker 1: I get body shame. This time there was a curveball
Speaker 1: and that happened in Seattle. So but it's still happening, guys.
Speaker 1: So we're in Seattle. And number one, never take pictures
Speaker 1: of anyone, especially not a woman at a fucking while
Speaker 1: she's doing stand up comedy on stage. There's no way
Speaker 1: that anyone's ever gonna need or want that photo. So
Speaker 1: a picture was taken of me where I looked to
Speaker 1: be about two and seventy five pounds and I'm five
Speaker 1: ft three. Keep in mind, and uh, I was having
Speaker 1: a great night in my hotel room in Seattle, snuggling
Speaker 1: in with my Snickers bar. Whatever the funk I did.
Speaker 1: I checked my tag photos. I see that picture of myself,
Speaker 1: because it's not only did you have to take the picture,
Speaker 1: you had to put it on the internet. Yen, you
Speaker 1: had to tag you girl, and then tagging your girl
Speaker 1: and then and then that's salt of the wound this
Speaker 1: woman and I'm not this is I know you had
Speaker 1: the best intentions. Then she hashtagged it body positive. And
Speaker 1: that that's when I went over to my fucking hotel
Speaker 1: room window and I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: know had suicide loss on these windows because someone else
Speaker 1: got tagged hashtag body positive. Okay, know, nothing says you're
Speaker 1: a six set best more than the hashtag body positive. Honestly, guys,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna take a picture like that, just hashtag
Speaker 1: a fat bitch and we're all gonna say, we're gonna laugh,
Speaker 1: We're gonna go that person has a sense of humor.
Speaker 1: But I think it's a real thing. It's because it's me.
Speaker 1: It's so pandering. So there have been times like when
Speaker 1: we've been in war, you know, wars with like Legion
Speaker 1: Legion of Skanks listeners or something where they were doing
Speaker 1: terrible things and made videos about like me being fat
Speaker 1: on the internet. I'm not even fat. I don't even
Speaker 1: like this is going on. But it's funny and uh
Speaker 1: and that felt better? Yeah check. And you know what
Speaker 1: else sucks When we do self deprecating jokes in our
Speaker 1: stand up and then the punchline gets fucking ruined by
Speaker 1: some chick in the crown. And it's always a chick.
Speaker 1: It's always a young white lady. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to be that's just what it is. At your Christina,
Speaker 1: fuck you fucking bitch um And they all if any
Speaker 1: we ever say anything negative about ourselves in our stand up,
Speaker 1: because again, humors how we deal with things. So this
Speaker 1: happened to me the other day. The girls like you're beautiful,
Speaker 1: shut the funk up. I should be able to say
Speaker 1: something I don't like about myself without everybody going no, oh, no, stop,
Speaker 1: no bitch. It's my body, it's my life, and it's
Speaker 1: my brain. Let me just get it off my chest.
Speaker 1: So we we do a fun thing at the beginning
Speaker 1: of our our torch show where we passed the micro
Speaker 1: around and we all say negative things about ourselves and
Speaker 1: then we all go boo gross, and it's so amazing,
Speaker 1: so cathartic. I've I've I've admitted things that I haven't
Speaker 1: admitted to anybody that feel so good that I truly
Speaker 1: was self conscious about, Like back me feels so I
Speaker 1: was so self conscious about it, and I feel I
Speaker 1: won't go, I won't hook up with a guy if
Speaker 1: I'm like breaking, But like to say that in a
Speaker 1: microphone in front of a hundreds of strangers and then
Speaker 1: everybody going boo, boo gross, you're fucking disgusting feels I'm
Speaker 1: just so sick of like having to be like be
Speaker 1: a woman who's already like valued so much for her
Speaker 1: body and then to have to like look in the mirror,
Speaker 1: look at a picture that obviously sucks, and then have
Speaker 1: everyone say you're beautiful. And that's like when that's like
Speaker 1: when your kid breaks the shitty piece of art and
Speaker 1: you're like, I guess I'll hang it on refrigerator. That's
Speaker 1: what that feels like. We all know it's not good. Okay,
Speaker 1: just fucking stop this show. And but but further, because
Speaker 1: I was like the true kind of zen that you
Speaker 1: want to reach is not like thinking a body that's
Speaker 1: like awesome and banging is when it isn't. It's just
Speaker 1: living a life where it doesn't matter. You're not being
Speaker 1: fully valued by your body. That's the zen that you
Speaker 1: want to reach. The rest of this stuff is bullshit. Also,
Speaker 1: petitions don't matter. I'm gonna start a change dot org
Speaker 1: petition to suck my cunt show. It's fonsored. But talk Space,
Speaker 1: the online every completely sober, which the words part sober
Speaker 1: the online therapy company. Let's let's to message a license
Speaker 1: therapist from anywhere at any time. You hear me pitches
Speaker 1: anywhere at any time, and we've tested it. Can't imagine everywhere.
Speaker 1: Can't imagine fitting another appointment in your life because you're
Speaker 1: so busy creating online petitions to stop a show you've
Speaker 1: never seen, Well, you dumb bitch. Talk space with talk
Speaker 1: Space therapy is as easy as sending your therapists a
Speaker 1: message Okay, no commutes, no leave in the office, no judgments,
Speaker 1: and no petitions to match up the perfect therapist for
Speaker 1: a fraction of the price of traditional therapy. Talk Space,
Speaker 1: talk Space. I gotta make sure I say it all right,
Speaker 1: make me do it again. Talk space dot com slush
Speaker 1: GWF and use code g WF to get forty five
Speaker 1: dollars off your first month and show your support for
Speaker 1: this show. That's g WF at talk space dot com
Speaker 1: slash g WF. Oh my gosh, how do we not
Speaker 1: have a TV show? I mean, the industry isn't ready
Speaker 1: for us. Too fat some of them? Can we make
Speaker 1: a TV show called too Fat to buck suck my asshole?
Speaker 1: Everybody suck my asshole? Oh God? Come see us live, please,
Speaker 1: but make sure you're bringing the disgusting part of your
Speaker 1: body to and you're ready to talk about it. Um
Speaker 1: so um, this is wait, this is today? Right? Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So today we are in the City of Brotherly Love,
Speaker 1: the two on five, the wa Wall Country. We're in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: That's August two through August four, where at Helium come.
Speaker 1: You guys have been begging us. You've been cry face
Speaker 1: emoji ing that we come there. Hey, We're there, We're
Speaker 1: gonna be there. And then Washington, d C. Love your cupcakes. Austin,
Speaker 1: I just said Austin on Washington tweets at Austin, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we weren't invited. Washington, d C August nine, three eleventh.
Speaker 1: We're going to be at the d C Improv Dallas,
Speaker 1: Texas August We're gonna be at the Addison Improv. For
Speaker 1: all other dates and ticket links, go to Sorry about
Speaker 1: last Night Comedy dot com, slash tours with an S
Speaker 1: for all of our other dates. Follow us on social media. Right,
Speaker 1: this isn't tonight, this is this is This episode is
Speaker 1: coming out on the twenty seven. Oh yeah yourself, that's fine,
Speaker 1: we got robe. We're tired. You figured it out. Maybe
Speaker 1: tweeting Netflix and see if they can help you figure
Speaker 1: out those things. Start a petition about how you're confused
Speaker 1: about how we didn't really say it right, but then
Speaker 1: you can't. You could go on on to google it.
Speaker 1: But you know, calendars are signsitive to me. My mom
Speaker 1: was murdered by a calendar, so you could my father
Speaker 1: fucked the calendar and left my mother and me wailing
Speaker 1: in the living room alone. I was triggered. My favorite post,
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan posted this thing on his Instagram. It was
Speaker 1: because there are more than two genders. It was a
Speaker 1: screenshot to buy a T shirt that said there are
Speaker 1: more than two genders and the options were male or
Speaker 1: female size shirt and he goes hashtag triggered and like,
Speaker 1: goddamn love you, Joe, I love you. Hey, you eat bison.
Speaker 1: Your jokes come out that I gotta start eating bison. Uh, guys,
Speaker 1: are our baby art and I are having a baby
Speaker 1: on August eighteen, Saturday. I hope she's fat, and I
Speaker 1: hope she's all the adjectives that everyone gets triggered by
Speaker 1: whatever they are over they may be to you, that's
Speaker 1: our baby, guys. We Fest is happening Saturday, August eighteenth
Speaker 1: at Brooklyn Studios in downtown Brooklyn. If you go to
Speaker 1: our website you can have all the information. But during
Speaker 1: the day there's going to be booths where you can
Speaker 1: sign up for volunteer volunteer organizations, you can learn about them,
Speaker 1: you can learn how to do drag makeup, you can
Speaker 1: pet a puppy. We're gonna have a lot of really
Speaker 1: fun fucking things happening during the day. My best friend A. K.
Speaker 1: Thomas Whitfield, UH, sex therapist is going to be doing
Speaker 1: our talk back during the day about how to get
Speaker 1: over breakups and I need that. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna shut everybody up if they trying to talk, because
Speaker 1: I really need this, guys, And we're gonna have a
Speaker 1: lot of curative booths. I'm really fucking excited for that.
Speaker 1: And then during the also during the day portion, we're
Speaker 1: going to be doing a live episode of Guys We
Speaker 1: Fucked with very special guests. And then at night we're
Speaker 1: having a giant, fucking, insane, blowout, crazy show of stand
Speaker 1: up comedians that you've seen on the podcast, and uh
Speaker 1: and a musical guest and UH, shut the funk up.
Speaker 1: Don't work about it. Wait, it's gonna be good. You
Speaker 1: can buy a day pass, you can buy a night pass,
Speaker 1: or you can buy an all access pass. And there's
Speaker 1: only limited numbers left, so please click the links in
Speaker 1: the description of this episode of the podcast for more
Speaker 1: and as always, all proceeds are going to be split
Speaker 1: between New Alternatives for lgbt Q Youth and the Reproductive
Speaker 1: Health Access Project. Uh, guys, actually buy those tickets for
Speaker 1: Guys We Fast or donate it. If you can't make it, Uh,
Speaker 1: just eat some Blue Apron. Support for today's show comes
Speaker 1: from Blue Apron with fresh non GMO ingredients and chef design.
Speaker 1: Seasonal recipes delivered to your door. Blue Apron let's you
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Speaker 1: uh for next times. We we uh, we're gonna we're
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Speaker 1: hiding beer in this airbnb. Hey, guys, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: bury it in Los Felie somewhere. You just gotta run
Speaker 1: around and find it. Um Okay, today's guest is amazing.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Emily and everybody Mike at the Comedy Store.
Speaker 1: We recorded this interview in the Comedy Stores podcast studio.
Speaker 1: We love the Comedy Store. They're amazing to us and
Speaker 1: we really appreciate um them being our Los Angeles home.
Speaker 1: So we love you guys so much. Uh so excited
Speaker 1: to interview this guy. He's a stand up comedian. He's
Speaker 1: the host of two True TV's talk show The Game Show.
Speaker 1: His upcoming book, My Life as a Goddess, a Memoir
Speaker 1: through unpopular culture, hit shelves July thirty one. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: give it up for god by brandam Moncol's where Dreams
Speaker 1: Come True and Yo good and you can be you
Speaker 1: when you want to swear, you want to please, feeling
Speaker 1: you and you woo shoe sween you. Okay, we are here. Hello,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. That was so professional. I love it.
Speaker 1: This is great. Um. Yeah, so we just we wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to you for a while. We know each
Speaker 1: other a little bit in passing. Yeah, thank you. We're
Speaker 1: in this. We're in the basement of the comedy store,
Speaker 1: which is as scary as I thought it would be.
Speaker 1: I know, I was on a little disappointed. I thought
Speaker 1: I'd be a little scarier. But if anybody feels a presence,
Speaker 1: let me know. I mean, horrible things happened to cocktail
Speaker 1: waitresses around well, you know, maybe in this me too
Speaker 1: era that will stop happening. Yeah, has anything terrible happened
Speaker 1: to you? Got me? Dude? Oh no, um, lucky anything No.
Speaker 1: Like the resounding power of my sexuality growing up was
Speaker 1: um pretty impressive. There was almost nothing happening, like until
Speaker 1: I came out of the close it and then I
Speaker 1: was like desperately trying to figure out how I could
Speaker 1: make something happen. Um, and they were definitely times I
Speaker 1: talked about it in the book, but there were definitely
Speaker 1: times when I got to grabby at the saloon in
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis when I was learning how to be gay.
Speaker 1: So I will admit to that grabby at a saloon
Speaker 1: when you were learning how to be gay. The saloon
Speaker 1: is is the like alpha gay bar of of Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: and that was where I learned how to tread water
Speaker 1: in in homosexuality. But no, I have you know, I've
Speaker 1: been lucky enough to not have um, you know, someone
Speaker 1: shove sexuality at me that I was not interested in.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. Yes, it's a lovely way of life.
Speaker 1: That's not yeah, because then you don't have to walk
Speaker 1: around with Will you walk around with other anxieties, not
Speaker 1: the anxiety that someone's going to like with their dick
Speaker 1: out or something. Do. I do think like the way
Speaker 1: that we raise gay kids in America screws with you
Speaker 1: in a very particular way, Like you grow up with
Speaker 1: I like I'm messed up understanding of your own sexuality
Speaker 1: that I can't compare to people who have been assaulted
Speaker 1: or particularly assaulted as children. I haven't had that experience,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's just a particular kind of
Speaker 1: funk up anus sucked up atness that like we've had
Speaker 1: to not talk about because we spent the past thirty
Speaker 1: years being like we're normal, we're fun, let us get married.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, you just fighting for equality. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it's got to be fucked up to have a
Speaker 1: sexuality that society says you have to come out right,
Speaker 1: and and before that keeping a little box that nobody
Speaker 1: gets to see or deal with, and then once it
Speaker 1: does come out, nobody has taught you how to use
Speaker 1: it in any way. And so you know, it is
Speaker 1: it was a time before before like YouTube instructional videos,
Speaker 1: when you just had to like hope that m a
Speaker 1: nice man started dating you and taught you some things.
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, or you know, or like a friend
Speaker 1: told you, what were you taught about sex when you
Speaker 1: were younger? Oh? I mean that you shouldn't do it
Speaker 1: and that's how babies are made, and that you shouldn't
Speaker 1: do it yet, and that they're a fact. It's okay.
Speaker 1: My My hometown is wonderful because it's you know, a
Speaker 1: very sort of like abstinence only kind of Christianity sensibility
Speaker 1: and sounds wonderful. It runs on unwanted pregnancies, like it's
Speaker 1: just the engine of that town economy. Yes, it's just
Speaker 1: like somebody at nineteen goes oh and then they have
Speaker 1: to work out home depot for the rest of their
Speaker 1: life because they won't get an abortion, you know. So
Speaker 1: it's like, how do these the people in these types
Speaker 1: of towns and not see that that is a directly
Speaker 1: is directly correlated absence only education and shoving religion down
Speaker 1: people's throats. But the type of religion that's like makes
Speaker 1: you feel guilty about everything. Of course you're going to
Speaker 1: have an unwanted pregnancy. Well, and it also means that
Speaker 1: like for gay people, when you exist outside of the
Speaker 1: boundaries of any of that education or morality, like when
Speaker 1: you are doing it on your own, you're like, I
Speaker 1: guess there are no rules for me, because like I'm
Speaker 1: going to hell anyway, so let's make and terrible choices. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good attitude. And it was kind of nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would imagine I'd be liberating for your sexual right.
Speaker 1: It was like it was I was lucky to come
Speaker 1: like I came out a little bit later, was twenty three,
Speaker 1: But it was nice that the internet had started happening
Speaker 1: to the point that I was able to just like
Speaker 1: it took me a few months to figure things out,
Speaker 1: but once I realized I could get boys to come
Speaker 1: to my home, then it was just sort of like,
Speaker 1: let's do this until I feel like I understand what's
Speaker 1: going on. Yo. Yeah, yeah, diptoe in a little bit,
Speaker 1: little by little, until you have a grasp and you're comfortable.
Speaker 1: So we explored toes. We explored a lot of toes.
Speaker 1: Wait did you say you um so, you said that
Speaker 1: you mentioned a sexuality. Did you actually think at any
Speaker 1: point that you were a sexual or was that just
Speaker 1: something you were that was you were presenting as a sexual?
Speaker 1: It was like thrust upon me this sort of I
Speaker 1: think there is this way that like when people don't
Speaker 1: fit into this sort of like rigid limiting structures of
Speaker 1: sexuality that we have, which is sort of like, well,
Speaker 1: you're something else, there's no place for you. I mean,
Speaker 1: god knows. From this time I was like twelve, I
Speaker 1: had a clear understanding of what turned my dick on.
Speaker 1: I just couldn't admit that to anyone, even myself. Really
Speaker 1: when you were twelve, like what turned your dick on?
Speaker 1: At twelve? Um uh Tye Belcher. Mike Balley was like
Speaker 1: the first boy in eighth grade to get like he
Speaker 1: had hair between his belly button and his dick, and
Speaker 1: he talked about it constantly, and I wanted to know more. Um,
Speaker 1: and he talked about it constantly. Yeah, he was like
Speaker 1: really proud of himself, and I was just like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, on it's weird because everyone is sort of
Speaker 1: like exploring these things and sort of like playing with them,
Speaker 1: and like I didn't know how I would do that.
Speaker 1: There are some gay guys who are really good at
Speaker 1: sort of like taking on the voice of people around
Speaker 1: them and sort of like mimicking that. Like my friend
Speaker 1: Jason who just got married. Um, he was like he
Speaker 1: was the player. He was super good at always sounding
Speaker 1: like the straight guys. Um. But I was not a
Speaker 1: person like that. Okay, So how how so did anybody
Speaker 1: between the age between like when you were born in
Speaker 1: twenty three when you came out, did anybody suspect did
Speaker 1: anybody ask you or anybody any inklings? Like clearly people
Speaker 1: must have assumed like, um, it was interesting sort of
Speaker 1: like in retrospect realizing, like god, so many people in
Speaker 1: college just must have interpreted me as a very out
Speaker 1: gay guy because it also it was like all I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about in English classes with like gender
Speaker 1: and sexuality and stuff like that, but I couldn't apply
Speaker 1: it to myself. Like my best room from high school, Gina,
Speaker 1: she told me, like when I was like twenty, she
Speaker 1: was like, if you're gay, that's okay with me, which
Speaker 1: is like the kindest thing you can do that would
Speaker 1: make you feel because I've heard some gay guys are like,
Speaker 1: don't you know they get upset because you're ahead of
Speaker 1: something that I can't even grasp you the thing that
Speaker 1: is always scary. But she did it in the nicest
Speaker 1: of way of like, if it's true, you get to
Speaker 1: be in charge of this. And I do think there's
Speaker 1: a way that us expecting, like the fact that we
Speaker 1: expect you to turn into a realized adult and then
Speaker 1: turn around and say to everybody, so I'm gay is
Speaker 1: a little bit hard because it necessarily leaves like eight
Speaker 1: years where you're just sort of like exploring untethered. Um
Speaker 1: here's a horrible story. So um My last year at Berkeley,
Speaker 1: UM I wrote a column where it was the winter
Speaker 1: date with guy Spice Girls Essay content, so a Spice
Speaker 1: Girls newsletter weekly. I I only stopped because I had
Speaker 1: to go to college, and my mom was like, you
Speaker 1: probably should concentrate on your studies. Shop mom on the
Speaker 1: weekly insane. I'm on my edge of my seat. So
Speaker 1: Spice World was coming out, and so I had an
Speaker 1: essay contest to when a date with me? Because the
Speaker 1: thing is with you, and the thing is that I
Speaker 1: always like, even at this point in time, when I
Speaker 1: had been like solidly committedly masturbating only two men for
Speaker 1: like eight seven or eight years, was like, I just
Speaker 1: haven't found that right girl who really makes it happen.
Speaker 1: I had one, you know, I had one erection to
Speaker 1: Cameron Diaz and in a bikini once, and I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time being like, well that happened that
Speaker 1: one time. That's got to mean something. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: I get what when I see photos of Demilovado sometimes,
Speaker 1: but you know, by that parking lot we were, it
Speaker 1: was pretty dope, I mean cool for the summer, turned
Speaker 1: everyone on um, but the only the only entrant turned
Speaker 1: out to be UM. This is a very confusing situation
Speaker 1: to talk about because it was a straight boy who
Speaker 1: was presenting himself as a trans girl, and I just
Speaker 1: read as a trans girl. Um. But but it is
Speaker 1: like now, a friend of a friend who I know
Speaker 1: and was at that gay wedding I referenced just moments ago.
Speaker 1: But at the time, all I saw was just sort
Speaker 1: of like, um, a very sort of like muscular, turned
Speaker 1: me on kind of body in a little black dress
Speaker 1: which was also erotic in its way, like waiting for me.
Speaker 1: And so I had this terribly terribly awkward like I mean,
Speaker 1: I was wearing cargo shorts like it was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was bad in a number of ways. Um day,
Speaker 1: and I like left as quickly as I could because
Speaker 1: all of these issues were just like the floating around
Speaker 1: in my head. And then I wrote a column about
Speaker 1: it where I said I wasn't gay. And then the
Speaker 1: editorial board of my college newspaper voted to disagree with
Speaker 1: me at the editory and it was like you that
Speaker 1: they disagreed that you were gay. Um, And it was
Speaker 1: like so it was so shamemaking, but also was wonderful
Speaker 1: and the best thing. And like talking to Andrew, the
Speaker 1: guy who presented himself as a trans woman, um, he
Speaker 1: was like I just assumed. Also, we didn't understand the
Speaker 1: difference between gay and trends that well back then. But
Speaker 1: he was like, I just assumed you were gay from
Speaker 1: everything that you had from from the Spice Girls movie
Speaker 1: confest I'm me and it was a hell of a movie.
Speaker 1: What was his essay about Andrew's essay about I Forget
Speaker 1: It's lost to time? Yea, So is he still is
Speaker 1: Andrew still presenting as a trans? No, that was just
Speaker 1: a weird thing he did for that one occasion. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yes, that was it. He is merited. It
Speaker 1: seems like a trans, like a transvestite, than like like
Speaker 1: an eddie wizard or like he was just like cross
Speaker 1: stresser I think the term, But yeah, he was. He
Speaker 1: was doing that in some sort of weird play on
Speaker 1: my gender presentation and sexuality. I didn't entirely understand it.
Speaker 1: It's not like I was self possessed enough to be
Speaker 1: asking questions. It was just really confusing and messy, and
Speaker 1: I played it out in front of, you know, tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of readers, and that was for me, like
Speaker 1: a good start of just sort of like having your
Speaker 1: messiness being public. Yeah yeah, yeah, which you guys are
Speaker 1: fans of that, but yeah, we really didn't think I
Speaker 1: was going to listen to my So it is it
Speaker 1: is an odd feeling to air everything out, but it's
Speaker 1: it's nice when you did come out. What led to
Speaker 1: the what led to you doing it at that time?
Speaker 1: And how did you do it? Would you say? So?
Speaker 1: I was It was after my first ye of law school,
Speaker 1: and I was like more depressed than I've ever been.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going down this life path that
Speaker 1: I don't want to be on, and I'm never like
Speaker 1: the people around me were there for the right reasons
Speaker 1: and I wasn't, And so I could feel it. Why
Speaker 1: were you in law school? Then? My mom told me
Speaker 1: to That was just I did what my mom told
Speaker 1: me to do. You know, why wouldn't I grow up?
Speaker 1: And eventually you realize, oh, the purpose of my life
Speaker 1: is not to please my parents exactly when the world
Speaker 1: opens up. So like two things happened. One was I
Speaker 1: went to a Fourth of July party and my friends
Speaker 1: Mike and Mona, who are still together, were like it
Speaker 1: was at Mike's parents house and they were being like,
Speaker 1: I'll love you with each other and I was like,
Speaker 1: you will never get that. That will never happen in
Speaker 1: your life. You will never get that. And then like
Speaker 1: less than a week later, I read about how I
Speaker 1: m forced the British author had not had sex until
Speaker 1: he was thirty eight with an Egyptian brakeman, and it
Speaker 1: was like that could so easily be you, Like you
Speaker 1: could fall asleep and then just be thirty eight and
Speaker 1: never have had sex. Um, And so I told my
Speaker 1: parents immediately, and then like I told my parents before
Speaker 1: anyone else and before doing anything, which is we're going
Speaker 1: out on a day with a guy or which was
Speaker 1: a weird way of going about it, but also like
Speaker 1: we're tied to our parents and they I'm sure, I
Speaker 1: mean did they ever express homophobic views? God? Yes, so
Speaker 1: that yeah, they weren't going to deal with it well.
Speaker 1: And I didn't want them ever being like you did
Speaker 1: this behind our back, you know. Um. I tried to
Speaker 1: be as open as possible. And then after that it
Speaker 1: was just like it was the best and the worst,
Speaker 1: because like, the Midwest is a horrible place full of
Speaker 1: chili people who don't want to share their emotions with you.
Speaker 1: But also being in like like I'm mid tier city
Speaker 1: that's like a good gay city, was like such a
Speaker 1: wonderful place to learn about sex and dating and going out.
Speaker 1: It was like for the guys who were there, who
Speaker 1: were like thirty seven and had already dated everyone they
Speaker 1: should date, like, it was a little sort of like
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do now, buddy? Um? But for me,
Speaker 1: for like two years, it was like a beautiful place
Speaker 1: to learn what I was doing and then go back
Speaker 1: to San Francisco and be like alright, bitches, yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know, did you say to your parents and what
Speaker 1: did they say to you? Back? I told him I
Speaker 1: was bisexual, and then like twenty minutes later I told
Speaker 1: him I wasn't bisexual. No, it was the worst. What
Speaker 1: did they say? My mother? My mother said, guy, if
Speaker 1: you're trying to hurt me, then you've succeeded. And my
Speaker 1: dad said, what did God make a mistake? And I said, no, Dad,
Speaker 1: you did? Oh yeah you know or her name? My
Speaker 1: mom seriously, like part of her still believes that if
Speaker 1: my father hadn't rhetorically stumbled like that, they could have
Speaker 1: successfully convinced me to not be gay. Like she she
Speaker 1: was like she really for a long time, just like
Speaker 1: dugger heels and it was like I'm not dealing with this,
Speaker 1: are you the only child. No, I have an older sister. Um,
Speaker 1: but like that's and that's why I cannot imagine now
Speaker 1: now your sexuality is a burden on your parents has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that, Like that's got to be
Speaker 1: so depressing. Well, it's also like, um, I mean one
Speaker 1: of the things that happened is I didn't come out
Speaker 1: until I had a job that was paying me well
Speaker 1: enough that I knew I could, like you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: to be on your own. I think that's a wise
Speaker 1: move because then you didn't need to rely on them
Speaker 1: always recommends. Uh. Like the beautiful thing about Tim Dylan
Speaker 1: is his real poltique, you know, like he worries about
Speaker 1: how things actually play out. Um, but um, what was
Speaker 1: Well you said you were bisexual and then twenty minutes later, Oh,
Speaker 1: just the fact that like in this period that was
Speaker 1: sort of like hugely depressing and I had to like
Speaker 1: figure all of these things out, like having my parents
Speaker 1: be removed as like support structure in any way kind
Speaker 1: of sucked. And also being like thousands of miles away
Speaker 1: from all of my friends. Um, you know, it was
Speaker 1: just sort of these law students who were like, I'd
Speaker 1: love to care about your you know, learning how to
Speaker 1: date boys, but I have to go learn about contracts.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so so okay, so how did they ever
Speaker 1: come around? How are they now? I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: um so, a little over a week ago was the
Speaker 1: nineteenth anniversary of my coming out. So when I called
Speaker 1: thank you, um So, when I called my mom, I
Speaker 1: was sort of like, hey, what's today? I'm like, she
Speaker 1: knows exactly what today is. But she talked around it
Speaker 1: for a while and then she finding still she was like,
Speaker 1: today's the day, told me, and I was like, okay, Um.
Speaker 1: The thing is, she's much better now. There was a
Speaker 1: long time when she just like would get really bad
Speaker 1: about any sort of discussion of it. Actually, today we
Speaker 1: had a semilong conversation about one of my niece's friends
Speaker 1: at the Christian school she sends her to, which is ridiculous, um,
Speaker 1: being a transboy. And you know, like my mom was
Speaker 1: not great about it, but she was much better than
Speaker 1: she was in because I often wonder like, can you
Speaker 1: change somebody's mind? I don't. I don't know. Can somebody's
Speaker 1: mind be changed? When I don't know? Well, the way
Speaker 1: thing is is that like people always talk like Republicans
Speaker 1: who don't understand gay rights until their son comes out,
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, that's stupid and dumb. But also
Speaker 1: like there are people who don't change their mind, but
Speaker 1: there's but also to everybody needs a point of reference
Speaker 1: and if it's personally affecting them. That's why I think
Speaker 1: it's so easy for male lawmakers to just not even
Speaker 1: think about, you know, and trying to make laws to
Speaker 1: prevent women from getting abortions. I mean they because it
Speaker 1: doesn't I mean until the you know, the sex worker
Speaker 1: they're fucking behind their wives back, finds out that they're
Speaker 1: pregnant and then they got to get an abortion. Well
Speaker 1: also like they're so frequently this like barrier between public
Speaker 1: and private life where it's like, yeah, I had to
Speaker 1: pay for the abortion, but I oppose abortion as an idea.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think it has been so powerful
Speaker 1: to have so many women talking about you know, like
Speaker 1: the Shout your Abortion movement like me, to having people
Speaker 1: take these things that you know, like our our stigmas
Speaker 1: that shouldn't exist and are stupid, but like still just
Speaker 1: that interesting game of like if everybody were honest about
Speaker 1: their experiences with these things, we wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: have stigmas about them. It's stepping forward and being a
Speaker 1: member of the minority who does talk about it sort
Speaker 1: of bring scrutiny on you, you know, and that's always
Speaker 1: like that's a dynamic that's like so hard to turn around. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's the price you pay for coming forwards, for for
Speaker 1: speaking up about stuff. But it does. I have like
Speaker 1: my mother for example, that you know, she was so
Speaker 1: conservative with in terms of like sexuality and me, and
Speaker 1: so when I told her I lost my virginity, she
Speaker 1: like didn't talk to me for weeks, and then she
Speaker 1: wound up. We interviewed her on this podcast, and I
Speaker 1: hid the name from her for so long and I
Speaker 1: could not believe the one eight that happened. But I
Speaker 1: think it was like I I am not very patient.
Speaker 1: So when someone like you know, is against something and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're you're you're thinking is just fucked up,
Speaker 1: like the're wrong, I don't have the delicate ability to
Speaker 1: kind of coach them through. And maybe you know, but
Speaker 1: with my mom I did witness how you know, she
Speaker 1: would I would read her emails from people we would
Speaker 1: get and she realized, oh my god, this actually helps people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the process of taking a lump that like emerged from
Speaker 1: your body and eventually being like, oh, it's a person
Speaker 1: that gets to go vote. It's like really hard, and
Speaker 1: like sexuality is such an interesting thing because on the
Speaker 1: one hand, I understand how wanting to protect you, But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's like, aren't you left infinitely
Speaker 1: less protected when you are in no way parented, like
Speaker 1: functionally parented on this issue, Like, um, and it's out
Speaker 1: of fear, but yeah, that's exactly. Also, the only people,
Speaker 1: the only people who actually obey their parents like sort
Speaker 1: of will nothing until marriage are fucked up in some
Speaker 1: other way. Waiting until marriage is I will stand by
Speaker 1: that issue for the day I die is the dumbest
Speaker 1: idea in the world. Out So yes, I was just
Speaker 1: to say, you're so used, you can't you're out of closet,
Speaker 1: your parents know. And then's when's your first sexual experience
Speaker 1: with a man happened? How amp for you? Um? I
Speaker 1: was terrified and amped off at the same time. So
Speaker 1: I was twenty three when I came out. I was
Speaker 1: twenty four the following April. It was April seventh of
Speaker 1: two thousand that I had sex for the first time.
Speaker 1: And uh, like I was on gay dot com, which
Speaker 1: was just sort of like it was like chat rooms
Speaker 1: with like city based chat rooms, and you would go
Speaker 1: on there and you would like troll um. We didn't
Speaker 1: have phones then. Um, So I was doing that and
Speaker 1: there was this guy who was like very sort of
Speaker 1: like aggressive and forward about things, and he was like,
Speaker 1: let's do this, let's make this happen. So he came
Speaker 1: over in the afternoon. Here's the thing. I was twenty four,
Speaker 1: he was seventeen, and you're like, guy, that's not okay, well,
Speaker 1: which I would reply, like no, the the age of
Speaker 1: consent in Minnesota's sixteen. Also, homosexual sex was illegal at
Speaker 1: the time. It was illegal for me to have sex
Speaker 1: with him, but only because he was a man, and
Speaker 1: I do think like it was illegal. Yes, it's it's
Speaker 1: a weird situation because the thing is just like I'm
Speaker 1: still friends with this guy to me is the like
Speaker 1: sweetest and also like I can't tell you the name
Speaker 1: of people number two through forty who I had sex
Speaker 1: with really like they were just sort of I knew
Speaker 1: them by their screen names. The first guy, the first
Speaker 1: guy who I topped um because like when Jimmy came
Speaker 1: over it was just like hand and mouse stuff. But okay,
Speaker 1: so b J's stuff that is um, but like the
Speaker 1: I own the first guy I topped, I only know
Speaker 1: his A O. L. Handle. But like Jim came over
Speaker 1: and I was like so terrified and paranoid that I
Speaker 1: like made him show me his idea to be like,
Speaker 1: all right, so you're legal. Um. And like one time
Speaker 1: I was doing like a live podcast and I talked
Speaker 1: about that and it was in Brokelen and this woman
Speaker 1: hissed about it, and it made me very self conscious
Speaker 1: because like, I have so few normal, nice sexual experiences
Speaker 1: that this experience of like losing my virginity while he
Speaker 1: lost his virginity. Oh he lost his two yes to
Speaker 1: someone who like I like, how a sort of he is.
Speaker 1: That's very impressed. It's the wonderful thing about dudes. It's
Speaker 1: just sort of like he was a seventeen year old.
Speaker 1: He wanted to do this and he wanted to yeah
Speaker 1: yeah um. And he was like short and muscly and
Speaker 1: he came over and I sort of didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do and we were like talking and he was
Speaker 1: talking about put on music and candles. No, it was
Speaker 1: the afternoon. This was like um, but he like started
Speaker 1: explaining how a body check works in hockey, and like
Speaker 1: he threw that managed to get things sort of like
Speaker 1: touchy feeling to like start things going. And then he
Speaker 1: and I like messed around for a couple of months
Speaker 1: after that and it was nice um, and then I
Speaker 1: just like but during that process, I just started to
Speaker 1: be like, I have to do this as much as possible.
Speaker 1: I need to learn to get good at blow jobs,
Speaker 1: like so many things ahead of me, and then am
Speaker 1: a magical moment. Then I came a magical moment when
Speaker 1: I learned that, uh, it's like it also I'm old,
Speaker 1: so like these like sexual stereotypes are out of date.
Speaker 1: But like my friend was like, no, it seems toppy
Speaker 1: or if you don't reciprocate oral And then I was like,
Speaker 1: you can just have someone come over and blow you
Speaker 1: and you don't have to blow them back, and he
Speaker 1: was like, yes, they like it even more. And then
Speaker 1: I started doing that for a while, and then I
Speaker 1: started getting HIV paranoid. So for a while I just
Speaker 1: had guys come over and get naked and play board
Speaker 1: games with me. That's funny, No, I like, I like,
Speaker 1: I didn't even why I didn't just do hand jobs,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because hand job. You can't gauge hand job.
Speaker 1: But like I think at that point in time, I
Speaker 1: had not yet sort of fully learned to appreciate the
Speaker 1: glory of a hand job. And I know, I know
Speaker 1: that to women, like like just straight people, I feel
Speaker 1: like a hand job from a woman just seems like
Speaker 1: it would be torture. And yeah, you guys don't because
Speaker 1: I'm like you you do it, yes. And also I
Speaker 1: feel like straight people are just like, we have penises
Speaker 1: and vaginas, why would we do anything else, And like,
Speaker 1: god knows, gay guys love penises and buholes. But I
Speaker 1: also like there are lots of other things that I
Speaker 1: think are thoroughly great, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, se
Speaker 1: up my sex life, Like okay, my mind is already,
Speaker 1: my mind is all like it's it's in that apartment
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis. The first time I had a moderately unattractive
Speaker 1: mid forties gay guy who is a little bit sad
Speaker 1: on the inside give me a hand job, I was
Speaker 1: just like, what the funk is this? It was like
Speaker 1: such technical accuracies, such attention to detail, because he had
Speaker 1: to work, and the thing is is. I initially wrote
Speaker 1: that as a joke when I was like five. I
Speaker 1: am now more than moderately unattractive gay guy in his
Speaker 1: mid forties who's more than a little bit sad on
Speaker 1: the inside, and I just hope that I perform well
Speaker 1: enough to keep that tradition going. I'm so good about
Speaker 1: that hand job. Oh, it was just sort of like
Speaker 1: I remember, he just sort of like he slapped one
Speaker 1: of his hands like um, thumb and forefinger around the
Speaker 1: base of the cock. He sort of like straddled my
Speaker 1: balls so that they were a little bit distanced and
Speaker 1: removed with his hand. Yeah, with like with his finger
Speaker 1: and ring finger, like just lightly touching. No, no, but
Speaker 1: just sort of like pressuring either side. Because yes, because
Speaker 1: if you stop the balls from being able to go up,
Speaker 1: it like retards ejaculation a little bit, so it takes
Speaker 1: you longer to come, but you come better. And then
Speaker 1: with the other hand, just like worked it nicely. He
Speaker 1: just like, okay, well worked it nicely. Are we talking twisty?
Speaker 1: Are we talking up and no? Just straight up and
Speaker 1: down and stirm. I require a firm um. So did
Speaker 1: he just know that? No? I think he just like
Speaker 1: there's also like communication. Again, I feel like the way
Speaker 1: that heater a sexuals are raised, you guys are raised
Speaker 1: to not be communicative about these things correct and think
Speaker 1: that like you're just supposed to be guided by nature
Speaker 1: and intuition. Um. And one of the lovely things about
Speaker 1: this whole process is like my first several years of sex,
Speaker 1: everything was like thoroughly negotiated out online before. The Internet
Speaker 1: has really helped. I mean, I know there's a lot
Speaker 1: of bad things that have happened to sexuality because of
Speaker 1: the Internet, but like for me, like I read how
Speaker 1: to give a blowjob on the Internet before giving it,
Speaker 1: I feel like I did a good job the first
Speaker 1: time because I'm like, oh, I'm a good student. I
Speaker 1: respond well to text. I was like, I'm always good
Speaker 1: at learning stuff in school, so why can't I also
Speaker 1: learn this? No, for me, book learning was so important
Speaker 1: being able to go online and just sort of understand
Speaker 1: things because these are aspects of sex that we just
Speaker 1: don't talk about, you know ever, Like even it's crazy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a process of properly having a clean butt
Speaker 1: to present the world with, you know, isn't something that
Speaker 1: anyone who's training you for. But also like the astounding
Speaker 1: discipline and mson plus that I have been presented. I'm
Speaker 1: just always like these guys take it seriously and I
Speaker 1: love and respect the work that goes into homosexuality. How
Speaker 1: do you what do you We've we've heard a lot,
Speaker 1: mostly from like female porn stars about keeping buttholes clean
Speaker 1: or preparing them for anal. But what did you have
Speaker 1: any like hot tips tips for I love all clean,
Speaker 1: but I have O c D really bad. Like, um,
Speaker 1: a couple of tablespoons of cheese, seeds and water are
Speaker 1: going to do half the job for you. What do
Speaker 1: you do? You're just like we drink it, drink it
Speaker 1: so that so that like so they like you have
Speaker 1: fiber going through and it's doing its job, but it's
Speaker 1: going through um. And then how far in advance before
Speaker 1: the sums enter in the butt? Well, like that's just
Speaker 1: a way of life. But then like having like a
Speaker 1: nice responsible douche bulb, like when you are you know,
Speaker 1: shower um shower yes, like take a ship shower h
Speaker 1: and that yes? Uh? And you know and then douche
Speaker 1: yourself and then do you use your butt hole? Yes?
Speaker 1: I mean when the situation arises. Because women have been
Speaker 1: told I mean, obviously what they're talking about our our
Speaker 1: pussy is not our butt. But like we've been like
Speaker 1: women have been like anti douche for a while, don't
Speaker 1: even mean, I don't even know, but I've never even
Speaker 1: used a douche, nor do I know. I like, I
Speaker 1: don't know what an if I've only ever used an
Speaker 1: enema and that goes at one time, well, I mean
Speaker 1: and and that's that's the same thing essentially, and the
Speaker 1: things like I'm not doing it um on the super regular,
Speaker 1: but if I am in this situation where I understand
Speaker 1: that something might be going on in that space, yeah,
Speaker 1: you yeah, and just sort of I haven't finished the process.
Speaker 1: You have to do it until the water runs clean.
Speaker 1: Like so when you do, you take water into the douche,
Speaker 1: put up your butt hole and then just squeeze it
Speaker 1: up there, squeeze it up there. And I always sort
Speaker 1: of dance around in the shower to make sure that
Speaker 1: it's like going around, uh, And then you go over
Speaker 1: a glass of red wine and then you go over
Speaker 1: to the toilet and you know, get rid of it,
Speaker 1: and then you know, far the water out, like poop
Speaker 1: the water out, poop it out. Okay, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: that makes sense for peeing out of your butt. It's
Speaker 1: however we're defining. It was like, that's how phone when
Speaker 1: I got a colonic, I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: so I was like, this is so strange, but you
Speaker 1: can get seems very natural. Have you ever had a
Speaker 1: whoopsie your partners? I don't, Yes, like from a partner. Yes,
Speaker 1: though I have by and large been um, as I said,
Speaker 1: astounded by the cleanliness and preparedness of the young men
Speaker 1: in America's homosexual forces. What was what? What was the
Speaker 1: what happened? Oh? I mean just like there was ship,
Speaker 1: you know, like when your out it came out out
Speaker 1: a lot of or a little and it was a
Speaker 1: fair amount. But like, yes, but I've never had sort
Speaker 1: of like what is commonly known as a miscarriage in
Speaker 1: the business. I've never heard that. I can't believe I heard. Yes,
Speaker 1: just sort of like an unexpected shipping that happens during sex.
Speaker 1: This is this is like seventies slang. Okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: And you know the first time that ever happened? Was
Speaker 1: it weird? Would you you know? He handed up? I
Speaker 1: guess like, um, it was an away game. And I was.
Speaker 1: I was pretty far into the game by that point
Speaker 1: in time, so I think I was just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what happens. But the thing is is like
Speaker 1: I am not the most anally oriented of people. Um
Speaker 1: you know, like I mostly end up doing other stuff.
Speaker 1: Uh what, I like eating and I do like eating
Speaker 1: an ass um, but like, um, I like blow jobs.
Speaker 1: I like you both, um you know, like I mean,
Speaker 1: and I have friends. I have friends for whom it
Speaker 1: is not sex if they're not going into a butt
Speaker 1: we're having someone going into there. But but like me,
Speaker 1: like i can fuck an armpit to completion, and I've
Speaker 1: had a lovely time that I think makes me happier
Speaker 1: because it's like an esthetic glory, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm sucking something that is like beautiful to me, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like visually at the same time, not that
Speaker 1: butts and buttles aren't are visual, but just sort of
Speaker 1: like I I think to me, like all the parts
Speaker 1: of a man are erotic or can be erotic in
Speaker 1: their way. Yeah, you can eroticize, so why not have
Speaker 1: a good time with that? Yes, it is crazy how
Speaker 1: like you can be naked with somebody and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like their forearms really sexy and you're like,
Speaker 1: I just want to kiss it. Yeah to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's sex last night for the first time in a while,
Speaker 1: so doing a lot of arms, you know when you're
Speaker 1: with you, when you're naked with somebody, and you're just like, ah,
Speaker 1: I missed that. I miss being in bed naked with
Speaker 1: somebody and just like just playing with that, you know,
Speaker 1: just like just touching, and I don't know, it's just
Speaker 1: so nice. That's sad. I gotta tell you, guys really
Speaker 1: bad at sleeping next to someone. You are really bad.
Speaker 1: And also just like as not like the vast majority
Speaker 1: of the sex that I had. When we were done,
Speaker 1: we parted ways. Um, and like when I am presented
Speaker 1: with the situations, it has been infrequent that it just
Speaker 1: seemed completely natural with someone. And then I was like,
Speaker 1: what's going on here? Um, that's the other thing. If
Speaker 1: you're really excited about it, you lie awake the whole
Speaker 1: time going never because I've been I get so tired
Speaker 1: when I come. I do too, but I just get
Speaker 1: so giddy that they're there. But I can't. Like I
Speaker 1: had one guy sleep over an buddy like a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago, and I couldn't sleep, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: because I was giddy. I was like, you got it's
Speaker 1: terrible and it's a special kind of how well, sometimes
Speaker 1: I just get scared that I'm going to fart on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: being a woman is horrible. Well you're like, are you
Speaker 1: always fart on your sexual partner? Well, I mean we've
Speaker 1: already been there, like, um, but like the last uh,
Speaker 1: the last gentleman I attempted to share a bed with
Speaker 1: We were in a king size bed for a period
Speaker 1: of time and that was fine. But then when I
Speaker 1: attempted to share a queen size bed with him, like
Speaker 1: I just had to go to my couch. Really, did
Speaker 1: he pissed or was he like, no, he understood? Like
Speaker 1: thrown man? I mean yes, I mean I don't. Um.
Speaker 1: There is an absence of sentimentality that amongst gay men,
Speaker 1: and particularly the gay men who I have ended up
Speaker 1: having sex with, um, that I think is wonderful and
Speaker 1: terrible all at the same time. You know, how is it?
Speaker 1: How is it wonderful? I mean the wonderful are just
Speaker 1: things like when someone shows up at your door for
Speaker 1: a hook up, you are completely allowed to say like no,
Speaker 1: and everyone understands that this is a business. It's hurt,
Speaker 1: nobody feels bad, like the fact that sex is a business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like just the idea that we both understand what
Speaker 1: we're in this for and we don't feel a need
Speaker 1: to sort of like overlay an obligation to emotion in
Speaker 1: a situation. That's a big difference between straight people and people.
Speaker 1: But it's not. I mean, that's like I can do
Speaker 1: that too, but that's why I function really well in
Speaker 1: fun buddy relationships. It is possible, it's just not common.
Speaker 1: I think with heterosexual women resexual people. I think just
Speaker 1: take that personally, but I think that like there are
Speaker 1: those gay guys who really are good at sentimentalizing it
Speaker 1: and sort of like merging sex with sort of traditional
Speaker 1: not liked not the most traditional, yes, but sort of
Speaker 1: like romance and caring about each other. And even if
Speaker 1: they are people with open relationships who are still sucking
Speaker 1: other people, which by the way, I would say sixty
Speaker 1: percent of the game, and you know, who are married
Speaker 1: or still having sex with other people, they have policies
Speaker 1: of some sort, if not more. I I'm one of
Speaker 1: my friends is um monogamous and gay, and it's apparently
Speaker 1: like and he was he was cheated on and kind
Speaker 1: of everyone was like, well, you're guy, like this just happens,
Speaker 1: Like he was just accept that. I thought that was
Speaker 1: a very interesting aspect of homosexuality that I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: don't it's lovely for people for whom it works it is.
Speaker 1: I don't understand someone's sexual exclusivity as being necessary or important,
Speaker 1: Like if there's someone who's wonderful enough to have sex
Speaker 1: with me, like they're gonna like good that they have
Speaker 1: someone sex with someone else, good that they have to
Speaker 1: be happy for that a good time and enjoy themselves.
Speaker 1: And I don't to me like this notion of ownership
Speaker 1: or mutual ownership, even in like it's nicest forms, even
Speaker 1: in like um Plato's symposium where they say that like
Speaker 1: love is the only acceptable form of slavery because it's mutual,
Speaker 1: and like there are ideas like that that like seem cool,
Speaker 1: but it's also like people get bored and also you
Speaker 1: like see something you're like, oh that's neat, and saying
Speaker 1: oh that's neat, shouldn't have to tear up the fact
Speaker 1: that this is the person who you most want to
Speaker 1: talk to you after you watch diet Land, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: And it has been a relatively rare situation in my
Speaker 1: life that the person I was having sex with was
Speaker 1: the person I most wanted to talk to after diet Land. Um.
Speaker 1: I've usually sort of like in ways, kind of had
Speaker 1: like a primary like intellectual and emotional relationship and then
Speaker 1: whoever I was sucking at the time, um, And there
Speaker 1: were two different people or or or multiple people in
Speaker 1: various ways. Usually the person I'm sucking is just strangers generally. Um.
Speaker 1: But but I do think there is something so hot
Speaker 1: about I do think sometimes, um, emotional intimacy can kind
Speaker 1: of sometimes it can ruin sex because it's not dirty
Speaker 1: to me anymore. Like I do understand that aspect of it. Well,
Speaker 1: two things. The first one is just I'm not good
Speaker 1: at creating emotional intimacy and that is always a challenge
Speaker 1: for me. And maintaining sexual engagement with someone who I
Speaker 1: am learning about and caring about can also be weird.
Speaker 1: This one time I was hooking up with this guy
Speaker 1: and he was telling me about how he was joining
Speaker 1: the military or something like that, and then like, while
Speaker 1: you're after you hooked up, No, we were in the
Speaker 1: process of hooking up, but we were also having like
Speaker 1: conversation and they're like came a point where I realized, like, well,
Speaker 1: now I know him too well to come like this
Speaker 1: is yeah, but where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 1: It's weird. I mean, like, sometimes I get annoyed when
Speaker 1: people who am just trying to funk, even if I
Speaker 1: enjoy them as people start telling me what I will
Speaker 1: categorize as like a boyfriend thing. Was Like, for instance,
Speaker 1: someone was telling me about this apartment he's runting, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to this is a this
Speaker 1: is a boyfriend conversation, a k. Something that's so fucking
Speaker 1: boring that only a girlfriends you have to put up
Speaker 1: with that because sexy people don't have concerns. They're just
Speaker 1: walking around being sexy. Like they don't have real estate needs. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they get the fucking they don't have problems. They're sexy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because but that's why I always like, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: having like a primary partner like you were saying, for
Speaker 1: the emotional and intellectual stimulation is that sounds like the
Speaker 1: best plan. And then you fuck people whenever you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, I don't know I won't say i've
Speaker 1: never I've been I've never really been into what I
Speaker 1: would call like a traditional relationship one but I'm not
Speaker 1: even counting it. But so, but I've many times been
Speaker 1: like the third party and in a couple that is
Speaker 1: married and open, and it just even though they're okay
Speaker 1: with it, feel it just feels like the level of
Speaker 1: intimacy that we reach. Like I've put myself in like
Speaker 1: the wife's position, and I'm like this, we're getting so
Speaker 1: intimate even in this conversation. I just canna. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine them like sitting in their living room, you know,
Speaker 1: like watching a diet Land or something together, and then
Speaker 1: he's like on the phone texting me. These are intimate things,
Speaker 1: and like I get hurt for the wife, even though
Speaker 1: she's probably not her. It's very hard for me. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I try. I can't grasp it. It's very uncomfortable, even
Speaker 1: though I know like the and this is straight people
Speaker 1: like that. The hypocrisy of like, well, I don't want
Speaker 1: my partner to cheat on me or whatever, but I
Speaker 1: want to look and you know, and not exists and
Speaker 1: I and I don't know. I wish I could make
Speaker 1: that go away. In my head. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that what I do is in any
Speaker 1: way functional most most like I mean, does it work.
Speaker 1: Does it work for you? Yes, but like it doesn't
Speaker 1: it hasn't lasted. Um, you know generally I'm fine with
Speaker 1: that though, Like I am sort of now in a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a situation where I have somebody, um,
Speaker 1: with whom I have like sex and reciprocal sexual interest,
Speaker 1: but also like I think he's smart and funny and
Speaker 1: wants to know what he thinks about things. Um, and
Speaker 1: that is nice, yes, but at the same time, like
Speaker 1: we're still what did affect your bone in ways? Sometimes
Speaker 1: in ways because you kind of care more and your
Speaker 1: I mean when I said to like somebody, I get
Speaker 1: more like aware of myself that I feel a little
Speaker 1: more self conscious and that sucks up sex. Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: this is terribly embarrassing, But I would say, like this
Speaker 1: situation achieves its greatest apex of satisfaction. Um, when I
Speaker 1: go to his Instagram feed and I masturbate. He lives
Speaker 1: in New York and I masturbate to that, and I
Speaker 1: will say to myself, he loves you, yes, and that's wonderful,
Speaker 1: Like and that, like, does that help you come? Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean come from them. But the thing is is,
Speaker 1: like I do love the way that like like love
Speaker 1: as part of a larger suite of things that can
Speaker 1: make things more sexual, like threat. Oh god, here's the
Speaker 1: other thing about being two dudes who are having sex
Speaker 1: with each other. But you, like know what, just the
Speaker 1: fact that you can play with concepts of violence or
Speaker 1: like meanness in ways that I would imagine for a woman.
Speaker 1: Unless you're very comfortable with somebody and have things really
Speaker 1: worked out, like you know once that you need the
Speaker 1: comfort and the trust, then you could play pretending in
Speaker 1: your head. But it takes a second to get that.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is like gay guys, we'll do
Speaker 1: it without the comfort and the trust, you know, and
Speaker 1: no one gets upset or Yeah, and I'm sure bad
Speaker 1: things happen sometimes, but like having a stranger strangle you
Speaker 1: while you're coming, I mean, that's wonderful. I've heard stories
Speaker 1: from gay guys that they're like, yeah, I had this
Speaker 1: guy that I never met before, I left my front
Speaker 1: door unlocked and you just came over, and that sounds amazing.
Speaker 1: I Ever, I can never foresee a situation where I
Speaker 1: would be comfortable enough to do that, but I wish
Speaker 1: I was. I think it's Aaron Foley here, who's lesbian comic,
Speaker 1: who has the funniest joke. It's that she performs on
Speaker 1: a gay cruise and dudes would just leave their door
Speaker 1: open so that like someone could come in and have
Speaker 1: sex with them, and she was like, if you did
Speaker 1: that on a lesbian cruise, the first lesbians who saw
Speaker 1: it would be like, we have a safety emergency. And
Speaker 1: I like, I tried to work on a joke about
Speaker 1: it forever, because, Uh, I am made very uncomfortable by
Speaker 1: watching heterosexual porn because I always feel very bad for
Speaker 1: the women involved, and I'm just I'm not used to
Speaker 1: seeing women be sexualized, and it always feels like they're
Speaker 1: pretending really hard. Usually yeah, but like the thing is
Speaker 1: just like even like no gay guy in a porn
Speaker 1: or or no straight guy in a porn either ever
Speaker 1: seems scared, Like that is accurate, Like they're like even
Speaker 1: if they're like supposed to be scared because is like
Speaker 1: the game of the porn, they're still not. It's so
Speaker 1: interesting that a straight dude could probably never observe that
Speaker 1: about women in porn. I don't think. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it just like um it makes and like I have
Speaker 1: never seen a real female orgasm that I am able
Speaker 1: to say like, oh that is what that's what happens
Speaker 1: to a woman when its actually going on. I have
Speaker 1: only seen these things in porn that are like so
Speaker 1: much theater you know, Oh yeah it can be Usually
Speaker 1: it's like if someone looks ugly and like maybe it
Speaker 1: starts to cry a little bit, that could be real. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I would explain it. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting, but we So I haven't really watched
Speaker 1: a ton of gay porn, which I should. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I haven't. Um. I used there was a
Speaker 1: movie Get Real that I used to watch all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with that movie about it on VHS, and
Speaker 1: like I loved the actual movie, but I think part
Speaker 1: of it was, like I found it kind of erotic. Yes,
Speaker 1: so well about it's just like British boys, right, and
Speaker 1: I love British accents. But so is there things like
Speaker 1: you know, like animal sounds and like eating your own
Speaker 1: barf and stuff. And there's because there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that like humiliation is very
Speaker 1: big and heterosexual point. I mean, like humiliation happens, sometimes
Speaker 1: you never actually buy it like I would a lot.
Speaker 1: I would say that a lot of ours is very
Speaker 1: meat and potatoes. And there's honestly one of the things
Speaker 1: that bothers me most about. And I probably have pretty
Speaker 1: vanilla taste, but like, I just want people who are
Speaker 1: more attractive than me, but like the way that they
Speaker 1: go through like a very specific like a set of
Speaker 1: activities in the exact same order. And essentially most pornography,
Speaker 1: most game pornography is like a little bit sad. Um.
Speaker 1: But um, you were saying. One thing that comes up
Speaker 1: a lot in gay porn that might be surprising is
Speaker 1: just because we grew up assuming we would never be
Speaker 1: able to have sex or it would be impossible that
Speaker 1: like gently coercive situations. Um, like, oh, there was this
Speaker 1: uh series that this one company did where they would
Speaker 1: like flash like the name of some part of l
Speaker 1: a like and the Burbank want Burbank was like, um,
Speaker 1: muscily six six casting director and then sort of like
Speaker 1: boyish twink actor, um, and then you know an extremely
Speaker 1: like but do you really want the part? And you know,
Speaker 1: I think those are are appealing for that reason that
Speaker 1: you have this understanding of like, oh, there's also like
Speaker 1: a subcategory of I love it so much. Um it
Speaker 1: is doctor patient porn. But the thing is is that
Speaker 1: it is not it's not actual sex. What it is
Speaker 1: is like there's a very hot guy who has something
Speaker 1: wrong with him, and then there is a doctor who
Speaker 1: is not hot who comes in. I love that, and
Speaker 1: all the doctor does is just get to touch parts
Speaker 1: of their body. I'm already aroused. That sounds amazing, It's
Speaker 1: so wonderful. But it's also like, oh God, what kind
Speaker 1: of sad closet insurance agent? Ohio are you that you're
Speaker 1: like only I were a physician who got to like
Speaker 1: gently like like copy the ball sack of a hot person?
Speaker 1: Can I copy your ball sack? Oh man? Do you
Speaker 1: ever use this humiliation turn you on your sex? God? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I mean well, I'm also very like I'm
Speaker 1: very aggro because I am always trying to control situations
Speaker 1: because I fear that, um Like, if I'm not in control,
Speaker 1: they will go very poorly, so likely accurate, Like it's
Speaker 1: so true. The thing is is that um like being
Speaker 1: sort of dommy towards someone is wonderful and very much
Speaker 1: enjoy but also like having somebody humiliate the physical like
Speaker 1: the thing is is like I'm almost never going to
Speaker 1: be physically scared of anyone who I'm having sex with. Oh.
Speaker 1: An important thing that I need out of sex is
Speaker 1: knowing that I will not break the person. Like. There
Speaker 1: are a lot physically or emotionally physically emotionally I'm fine with.
Speaker 1: But you know, there are a lot of gay guys
Speaker 1: who are made out of twigs in porcelain, and they
Speaker 1: are beautiful to look at, but I would be so
Speaker 1: scared I would not know what to do with them.
Speaker 1: Has there been an incident where you actually like something? No,
Speaker 1: because I almost am just like they're lovely to look at,
Speaker 1: I don't. You just don't want to go near I
Speaker 1: don't want to go near it. And like Jimmy, the
Speaker 1: young man to whom I lost my virginity, he was
Speaker 1: only like five four, but he was like sturdy. You know,
Speaker 1: it was something you could shove, and I want to
Speaker 1: be able to shove, and I want to be able
Speaker 1: to be shoved, you know. Um but uh oh. My
Speaker 1: core criticism of millennials is they make terrible dombs. Like
Speaker 1: there was there was getting in Portland, and um, I
Speaker 1: was like, maybe it's Portland's fault. But I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you like I essentially wanted to like, you know,
Speaker 1: be playing power games. But I was like, do you
Speaker 1: want to be like Mr in Charge? Or do you
Speaker 1: want to be a sweet young man? That I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask you how you verbally know, like what exactly
Speaker 1: you said? And he uh said like I want to
Speaker 1: be a charge. I want to be a dom And
Speaker 1: then just like he attempted the cuddliest of the cuddliest,
Speaker 1: he brushed your back. He was no, he was like
Speaker 1: headlocking me, but it was like sweetly, Um, yes, trying
Speaker 1: to put you in ahead. Now now in those in
Speaker 1: that moment, do you say something, how well did you
Speaker 1: know this person? How comfortable were you going harder? Dude,
Speaker 1: you can't. This isn't doing it for me. Um. We
Speaker 1: had hooked up a couple of times by that point
Speaker 1: in time. Uh, And I didn't say anything then, but
Speaker 1: the next day I tweeted something about how millennials make
Speaker 1: terrible doms and he saw it and he felt he
Speaker 1: felt like adorably hurt and it was sweet. Um, but
Speaker 1: can I, um, can I tell you the most noteworthy
Speaker 1: thing that yet that young man has done during the
Speaker 1: course of of sexy activities. All right, this this point,
Speaker 1: it sounds terrible off of the I lost my virginity
Speaker 1: to a seventeen year old. But this kid is like
Speaker 1: and I'm old and forty three. Uh. And one time
Speaker 1: we were messing around and I told him, tell me
Speaker 1: how young you are, and he said, I barely remember
Speaker 1: nine eleven. And I was like, I was like, no
Speaker 1: material here, Like it was just like, that's too good
Speaker 1: of a line. Really good line. That's a good line,
Speaker 1: that would probably sunk up my orgasm. That's really funny.
Speaker 1: Have you gotten yourself into trouble of being a comedian
Speaker 1: and kind of like tweeting out or like writing jokes
Speaker 1: of about sectual experiences you've had? Um, not really, because
Speaker 1: I'm not well, and also I'm like not socially interacting
Speaker 1: with most of the people I have sex with. And
Speaker 1: also like there are enough people around that they don't
Speaker 1: know if it's like it's rare, that it's restrictive enough
Speaker 1: that like they could clearly, I mean, it has happened.
Speaker 1: But then there's also the thing of like I have
Speaker 1: totally looked on um someone's feed and seeing them make
Speaker 1: some sort of terrible joke and had to be like, well,
Speaker 1: that is me. But the comedians dynamics of it that
Speaker 1: I find fascinating is like, let's say there are thirty
Speaker 1: working lesbian comedians in Los Angeles at any given point
Speaker 1: in time, like twelve of them are in relationships with
Speaker 1: each other. There are like maybe forty to sixty game
Speaker 1: men who are around here, and like, none of us
Speaker 1: would ever remotely think of having like certainly a relationship
Speaker 1: with I mean, their hookups have happened, but I think
Speaker 1: hookups are more likely to happen when somebody is like
Speaker 1: brand new to comedy. Yeah, there's a little dynamic there.
Speaker 1: But still I messed around with one open micro in
Speaker 1: Chicago and that is the only comic. Why is that?
Speaker 1: Why don't why don't male gay comics like you? I
Speaker 1: think it's like, don't ship where you sleep? Um, It's like, also,
Speaker 1: you're kind of the same energy, which I think we
Speaker 1: can be less interested in than lesbians. I was going
Speaker 1: to say, it does seem like all the gay male
Speaker 1: community that I know, there's just a disinterest in wanting
Speaker 1: to suck each other like yes, there's really good friends
Speaker 1: and very supportive. And then that's the exactly um, like, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm doing too much material, But I was like, um,
Speaker 1: just the idea of you want somebody who's like hot
Speaker 1: and simple or just sort of like a counterbalance to
Speaker 1: your sort of like frenetic verbal energy. Um, And I
Speaker 1: don't know. But but it's also the thing is, like
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time truly respecting someone who
Speaker 1: I don't find funny. I understood, so like, Um, for
Speaker 1: me to like really be capable of being excited about
Speaker 1: someone like, um, they kind of need to to be
Speaker 1: funny like that, but not a fucking comedian, right right, right,
Speaker 1: So you even need people who are like, who are
Speaker 1: you're non comedian? Like your regular people have to be
Speaker 1: funny as well. Yes, regular people who are funny the
Speaker 1: best the best. But for me, I will let that's
Speaker 1: the number one. But I will also take a person
Speaker 1: who's not Like if it's a comedian, they have to
Speaker 1: be funny. If it's not a comedian, it can be
Speaker 1: someone who's very funny or someone who just thinks I'm
Speaker 1: very funny. Right, that's the second best. The dynamic of
Speaker 1: like I try to pay attention to women as much
Speaker 1: as I can, which is more the most men aren't doing.
Speaker 1: But also there's still a lot of stuff I don't
Speaker 1: understand and the dynamic of um like a partner in
Speaker 1: sherlot talk to me about like going on dates with
Speaker 1: guys who went on a comedian on a date with
Speaker 1: a comedian so she could see how funny they were
Speaker 1: and just sort of like that. It is a difficulty
Speaker 1: that it is something you have to like search for
Speaker 1: and find to find a dude who is able to
Speaker 1: appreciate that you're funnier and more interesting than he. Oh
Speaker 1: they that scares some people. That's why I particularly like,
Speaker 1: I just broke up with a boyfriend of seven years,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, I want to comics so bad and
Speaker 1: I'm so excited because they just get you, don't There's
Speaker 1: so much that you already get immediately that I that
Speaker 1: base level of understanding is is I love it. I
Speaker 1: love it. Well. There's also just the thing that there
Speaker 1: are so many more strike et comics and like they're
Speaker 1: damage I know, but you can still have a little
Speaker 1: bit of like stranger who's he energy about any of
Speaker 1: them were like any gay man in America I've been
Speaker 1: on six shows with him, you know, like there's just
Speaker 1: there's nobody like you know, Seattle, Hello, Nick, soh Boston.
Speaker 1: Oh look it's Will Smalley, you know, like uh oh,
Speaker 1: so I have to say Will Smallley of Boston is
Speaker 1: the male comedian that every other male comedian is most
Speaker 1: likely to have a crush on. Oh yeah, oh he's gay.
Speaker 1: He's gay, but he's got like he's got these wonderful
Speaker 1: like tall boyfriend vibes just sort of like I'm stable
Speaker 1: and would take care of you. And it's so funny.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so nice. I wish. I just keep thinking
Speaker 1: back to how you could have a stranger come over
Speaker 1: on the internet and then you just fucking it's like
Speaker 1: totally fine and no one like murders each other. That's
Speaker 1: so cool and I'm so jealous of that. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1: One time in New York, I guy tried to steal
Speaker 1: my wallet and that was annoying but also was like exciting. No,
Speaker 1: it was like I caught him and we part like, um, like,
Speaker 1: so he's trying to steal after like I blew him
Speaker 1: and then I want to go spit out his seamen
Speaker 1: because yes, it's longer. You know, it's so stupid. The
Speaker 1: thing is is that I when I first learned how
Speaker 1: to give blowjobs like a good little boy, I swallowed
Speaker 1: because that seemed nice. And then my friend Steve was like,
Speaker 1: you seem slutty if you swallow, and so actually that's
Speaker 1: the problem right back out. So stupid that I have
Speaker 1: become like accept in limited situations a committed spitting American.
Speaker 1: I mean, is it in your mouth longer? If I
Speaker 1: don't know the person, I don't understand why I do
Speaker 1: what I do. I mean, you know, if it is
Speaker 1: someone who I know better, I think I would or
Speaker 1: am like extremely attracted to. Also, it's important that I
Speaker 1: haven't come yet. If I've already come, that I'm treating
Speaker 1: this like a business. Trens romanticize that comment. All do
Speaker 1: you usually is there a pat like do you find
Speaker 1: that when you're with a have a sexual partner? Do
Speaker 1: you usually come first or last? Is there is there
Speaker 1: a do you lean one way or the other? Do
Speaker 1: you have a preference? I mean it depends on the situation. Also,
Speaker 1: I am forty three, so you know it takes me
Speaker 1: a while. Um, And you know, I like, I just
Speaker 1: don't have as much ammo as I used to. Does
Speaker 1: the amount of jizz you spit out get less and
Speaker 1: less as the years go by, I mean to some
Speaker 1: extent like yeah, that's kind of um well, and also
Speaker 1: just like it, like I would say, it takes longer
Speaker 1: to build up like a really impressive load. Um though,
Speaker 1: Like I've been taking zinc just for that helps your load, Yes, zinc,
Speaker 1: zinc and magnesium, I think, yeah, it helps you not
Speaker 1: get a cold and like have more semen um to
Speaker 1: great things if you really are Um. Yeah, there is
Speaker 1: something kind of very unappealing when someone comes and it's
Speaker 1: just like a tiny and it's like, really, that's the
Speaker 1: thanks I get. Yes, I didn't do better work than that,
Speaker 1: but like sometimes it's like I understand, like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: because he's sucking on a really regular basis. Good for him.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of business going on and I
Speaker 1: may just be part of it, but that means he's desirable.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a guy? Have you ever been
Speaker 1: with a guy and they liked they de robed and
Speaker 1: then the dick was normally whatever? That means? Yes, Well,
Speaker 1: this is terrible and I'm embarrassed about it. But when
Speaker 1: I was living in Oakland, the first time I was
Speaker 1: presented with a foreskin, I've never been presented. It was
Speaker 1: like mid afternoon sex and I was presenting the afternoon.
Speaker 1: I was presented with a foreskin, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: thank you for playing. I will be driving you home.
Speaker 1: And really I had. I had like driven to Oakland
Speaker 1: to get him and then driven him back to my
Speaker 1: play and I got in the car and we drove
Speaker 1: back and then like, lesson, you didn't have sex because
Speaker 1: of the foreskin. I was just like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is, Like I was scared. But then like
Speaker 1: a month later I was playing board games with this
Speaker 1: he was like six four um Korean American adopted by
Speaker 1: white people. Um, like frat boyish PhD candidate in icon
Speaker 1: at Berkeley, so many, so many layers. And then um,
Speaker 1: I was presented with a foreskin for the second time,
Speaker 1: and ladies, I did not say now, I said, I
Speaker 1: said yes please, And I learned about an exciting new world.
Speaker 1: And then did this gentleman, uh, show you how to
Speaker 1: do work it? Because it's not that much different. It
Speaker 1: was relatively simple. Looked us through this actually because we
Speaker 1: we we asked I guess we had not either. Both
Speaker 1: of us had never seen the force of foreskin on
Speaker 1: a penis still, so we in real life and then
Speaker 1: to show it to us, Jean was very nice and
Speaker 1: showed us to us. Obviously we didn't touch it because
Speaker 1: it wasn't sexual, but like do you as the partner
Speaker 1: have to do different? You know? But like the thing
Speaker 1: is is that um. The second time, I was also
Speaker 1: presented with an erect penis, so it's harder to like,
Speaker 1: you know, so the skin was down like you're like,
Speaker 1: You're like, well, it's just sort of like stretched out,
Speaker 1: so it's doing its job and things just like aren't
Speaker 1: pulled as taught, so you know, you it all works
Speaker 1: so much better. And that's you have all the nerve
Speaker 1: endings you were born with when you have your foreskin.
Speaker 1: So I would imagine the orgasm is way better and
Speaker 1: as a partner, it would be more enjoyable to watch.
Speaker 1: And I think my mom just filled my head, like
Speaker 1: as a responsible gus um with the idea that like, um,
Speaker 1: if there was still a foreskin, it could get dirty
Speaker 1: or gross or smeg uh. And I have never encountered that, um,
Speaker 1: but it is just sort of like when it's all
Speaker 1: coward and distant. Um, that is great, thank you. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: but also like I think many sorts of penis can
Speaker 1: be wonderful. Um, I like I have a stronger gag
Speaker 1: reflex than I would like. And so how what do
Speaker 1: you mean, like you you will gag easily or yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean and turn on a dick. No, though I've
Speaker 1: come astoundingly close sometimes, And that's there's just that hard
Speaker 1: situation of like I'm gagging really hard right now, I
Speaker 1: can't breathe that well. And I also understand that if
Speaker 1: I stopped to do either of those things are calmed down,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do an additional seven to
Speaker 1: ten minutes of work. Yeah you know, yeah you're on
Speaker 1: the way, You're riding the wave. Yeah, Like as a well,
Speaker 1: especially like as a feminist, where like I am crying
Speaker 1: with a dick in my mouth, but like crying just
Speaker 1: because my gag reflexes forcing it to produce tears, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is what am I doing? Right? I mean,
Speaker 1: I am so thankful that I don't have those century
Speaker 1: is of like oppression and cachet over it, and I
Speaker 1: can't just say, like I love the work I do
Speaker 1: you guys. Um, The funniest thing was like, so after
Speaker 1: I started that period of time of like dudes will
Speaker 1: come over and they will blow me and I don't
Speaker 1: have to blow them back. It was just the loveliest
Speaker 1: thing to like three or four months later be like
Speaker 1: I missed the taste dick, you know, like I would
Speaker 1: just really like to like have one in my mouth
Speaker 1: right now. That would be so nice in the mouth
Speaker 1: are great, Honestly, I love it in a lot. Ali
Speaker 1: Wang has this joke. I don't know if she does
Speaker 1: it anymore, but about the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction
Speaker 1: you have when you have caused interaction to happen. You know,
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. It is wonderful, and you see your your
Speaker 1: hard work come to life before your very to media gratification.
Speaker 1: The thing I'm just sort of understanding that like if
Speaker 1: he came, you did your job, Like you did your job,
Speaker 1: you know, he had at least somewhat of a good time.
Speaker 1: Where like I with with women, I don't understand, as
Speaker 1: I said, how your orgasms work barely we we don't know.
Speaker 1: But like, um, I just think that I would feel
Speaker 1: less like stable if I were dealing with somebody who
Speaker 1: didn't produce like a teaspoon to a teaspoon and a
Speaker 1: half of something to let me know, okay, good for
Speaker 1: you even get very wet, like when you put your
Speaker 1: your hand on like a woman, and it's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: When you try to put a dick inside you and
Speaker 1: you're like it's just dry. You're like, it doesn't really.
Speaker 1: I still want to be here and I'm still happy
Speaker 1: it's happening. But I usually check to me, like, sometimes
Speaker 1: I can't even feel that I'm like wet, because it'll
Speaker 1: be like in it'll be like still covered a little
Speaker 1: bit and like holding it up. So I'll check to
Speaker 1: make sure before anyone like puts anything down there, because
Speaker 1: I'm like, it is embarrassing when someone puts the hand
Speaker 1: or their penis and your and you're like, but you're
Speaker 1: really really if you want to you there, I do
Speaker 1: want to be there. You seem like a good provider.
Speaker 1: It's like two balloons rubbing against Yeah, it's uncomfortable. Okay.
Speaker 1: So like after I came out my best room from college,
Speaker 1: she was the person who was like guiding me through
Speaker 1: everything sort of like the politics and the sex and
Speaker 1: the mechanics and identity and all of those things. And
Speaker 1: at one point in time I asked her essentially like
Speaker 1: and what you what you do for? Like what about Luke?
Speaker 1: What should I get? And she was like, I have
Speaker 1: glance for that kind of thing. Um. I recently told
Speaker 1: that story to or In how much I love that
Speaker 1: story and she was like, yeah, I was. I know,
Speaker 1: I was. I am actually getting work because I'm thirty two,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, thank god, I'm still making my own.
Speaker 1: But it's oh yeah, times how soon? I mean, like
Speaker 1: derogatory things that people say about old women, like all
Speaker 1: your dry up pussy, like your pussy actually will dry
Speaker 1: out eventually. You know, I don't know what's the to
Speaker 1: really get stick. It's not good a lot of things. Um, Anyway,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's about our time. We obviously want
Speaker 1: to promote your book when I find you on the internet,
Speaker 1: so tell us all that good. I should have talked
Speaker 1: about that more. My Life is a Goddess, Available July
Speaker 1: thirty one wherever books are sold. Please pre order today.
Speaker 1: Unless this comes out after July thirty one, then just
Speaker 1: buy my book. Thank you so much for doing Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got talked to the game show on True TV,
Speaker 1: which is fun show. I mean, I love a good
Speaker 1: creative concept and I so appreciate that show. I think
Speaker 1: it's it's innovative. It's but it's innovative and it's not annoying.
Speaker 1: It's really cool. And full disclosure, I do get pretty
Speaker 1: pissed when anything but in practical jokers comes on, But
Speaker 1: that's like one of the that and like hack my
Speaker 1: Life and the only ones that I also don't get
Speaker 1: pissed at come on. That's very sweet. Those jokers are
Speaker 1: great guys, and I'm at guy brandom on all social media.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for joining us.
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