Speaker 1: Ah, beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not
Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, military
Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community.
Speaker 1: Socrep dot com on time on Target, Uh, it's gotta
Speaker 1: here with Jack Murphy. People seem to enjoy the last
Speaker 1: episode with Alex Hollings. And what I noticed was it
Speaker 1: looks like it inspired an article out of Alex on
Speaker 1: Star Trek because I went to socrep dot com today
Speaker 1: and of course they see a Star Trek related piece
Speaker 1: by Alex. Well, did you see that one of his
Speaker 1: articles that he wrote about Arctic security, um was actually
Speaker 1: read basically, point by point in front of Congress. That's awesome,
Speaker 1: it was. I believe it was. Oh my gosh, was
Speaker 1: a congressman or a senator from Alaska? Um? He uh?
Speaker 1: He basically looked at Alex's article and they called Alex
Speaker 1: up and they're like, is it okay if we you know,
Speaker 1: lean on your material, um, you know for this congressional
Speaker 1: it and yeah, they basically read his work out loud.
Speaker 1: That's very front of Congress for testimony. UM. So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of him. He's doing great work. I would
Speaker 1: think that's you know, a huge genre that shows that
Speaker 1: people respect your journalistic integrity. It is. I'm slightly miffed
Speaker 1: because I wrote about Arctic security like three years ago
Speaker 1: and no one cared at all. Alex jumps in there
Speaker 1: and he's made real headway and gotten some people to
Speaker 1: take notice. So I'm super happy for him, and I'm
Speaker 1: happy that that particular issue. It's it's an obscure issue
Speaker 1: that is easy to forget and ignore, um, But if
Speaker 1: you go and read Alex's work, um, you'll see it.
Speaker 1: It has really really big national security implications. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's what happens. It's all timing. I think, if if
Speaker 1: you wrote something at the right time and the right
Speaker 1: person picks it up. There. There's also been increased awareness.
Speaker 1: There's been more and more people talking about Arctic security
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Uh, it's the same. Actually,
Speaker 1: even more so than that is the issue of China.
Speaker 1: If we had talked about China, um, And when we
Speaker 1: did talk about China four years ago, no one cared,
Speaker 1: No one paid any attention to that. But it's been
Speaker 1: a theme, I guess you could say in the in
Speaker 1: the media. Now more and more people are talking about
Speaker 1: China as a rising power, as a potential peer that
Speaker 1: could challenge the United States. UM. So there's much much
Speaker 1: more awareness of that issue now than there was just
Speaker 1: you know, even just two years ago. I think. So
Speaker 1: I'm happy about that. I'm glad people are talking about that.
Speaker 1: I remember I was on UM. I can't remember I
Speaker 1: Fies on Sean Hannity's show or Andrew willcous Um. But
Speaker 1: they did like a little like round robin with all
Speaker 1: the people who are there, and they said, what is
Speaker 1: America's biggest national security concern? Everyone's terrorism isis al Qaeda terrorism?
Speaker 1: And I was the one person that's like China. People
Speaker 1: looked at me like, guys crazy or how about UM?
Speaker 1: I should say probably when I'm thinking it was not
Speaker 1: the last presidential election, the presidential election before that Russia. Uh.
Speaker 1: And people laughed at Mitt Romney exactly because I was
Speaker 1: gonna say. Phil Lavanti, who we had on last week,
Speaker 1: he put up on Instagram the picture of I think
Speaker 1: the Democrats put it out, but it was a quote.
Speaker 1: It was it was from Romney talking about Russia, and
Speaker 1: it was a quote from John Kerry saying Mitt Romney
Speaker 1: talks about Russia like you know, this is rocky for
Speaker 1: was that the one with Draga and and yeah, Phil
Speaker 1: was like this has not aged very well. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's frustrating for me not they like take it all
Speaker 1: political because there's not just myself but a lot of
Speaker 1: other people out there, and you know who cover national
Speaker 1: security warning about Russia and Russian influence operations and Russian propaganda,
Speaker 1: and I think the left would generally brush all of
Speaker 1: that off. You guys are crazy. You're living in the
Speaker 1: Cold War and actually we're not living in the Cold War.
Speaker 1: We're living in eighteen where we're not fighting a cold war.
Speaker 1: We're fighting a new type of different warfare. UM. And
Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, the Democrats have seized on
Speaker 1: this issue only because of Donald Trump. I wish they
Speaker 1: had seized on this issue because it's a legitimate national
Speaker 1: security issue that we should focus on regardless of who
Speaker 1: the president is. UM. So that's kind of frustrating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm an agreement on that. UM. And of course before
Speaker 1: we get to George Handle, I'm excited to have on
Speaker 1: I wanted to mention UM and hopefully I'm pronouncing it right.
Speaker 1: Bill who went by wild Bill Gardner, who was a
Speaker 1: World War Two vet, but was one of the guys
Speaker 1: portrayed in Band of Brothers. Um died on Saturday at
Speaker 1: the age of ninety. His son confirmed Sunday that his
Speaker 1: father died at Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia. UH. He
Speaker 1: was born in Philadelphia, Philadelphia native n c O with
Speaker 1: the legendary Easy Company, Second Battalion, five six Parachute Infantry
Speaker 1: Regiment in the First Airborne Division during World War Two. Um,
Speaker 1: and it feels like every few weeks we're losing another
Speaker 1: one of these World War Two vets. I've mentioned so
Speaker 1: many of them on recent shows. And that's actually why
Speaker 1: it's important with guys out there like Steve Alostierry and
Speaker 1: Special Operations dot Com interviewing them, because I hate to
Speaker 1: say it, in the next five years, just about all
Speaker 1: of them, it won't be with us. We're you know,
Speaker 1: we're lucky that we've had these gentlemen with us as
Speaker 1: long as we as we have. I mean, so he
Speaker 1: was born in ninety three, he was a young man
Speaker 1: in forty four. Um died at the age of ninety.
Speaker 1: But you know, he lived a good long life and UH,
Speaker 1: and he lived life, you know, for real, I mean
Speaker 1: helped defeat the Nazis and basically save the world. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was one of those guys who contributed to that
Speaker 1: airborne invasion of Normandy. UM. So it's you know, we
Speaker 1: were very, very lucky to have people of this caliber. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I said it on the show with Steve Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I've met probably a dozen or so World World War
Speaker 1: two UM veterans and and as well as Holocaust survivors,
Speaker 1: And every time I meet them, I really try to
Speaker 1: cherish that because like when your daughter is a teenager,
Speaker 1: she's not gonna get to meet these guys. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean when I was a kid, I got to
Speaker 1: meet a few. Um. We had a family friend who
Speaker 1: would have Thanksgiving with us every year, you know, come
Speaker 1: for Christmas. Really nice guy named Gus. And Gus he
Speaker 1: arrived in Normandy I think four days after the landing.
Speaker 1: UM and he was so he was in France fighting
Speaker 1: the Nazis and got his foot basically blown off I
Speaker 1: think it was hanging by a thread and they had
Speaker 1: to reattach it Um. So he was one of the
Speaker 1: people I knew he still had Nazi shrapnel in his
Speaker 1: ankle his whole life. UM, and it would get you know,
Speaker 1: on a hot day in the summer, his ankle would like,
Speaker 1: you know, inflate because it was getting agitated. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a that's wild. And I had met other World
Speaker 1: War Two veterans. Um. You know, there's a guy who
Speaker 1: lived down the street from me who he U He
Speaker 1: had fought in the Pacific. His brother was a pilot
Speaker 1: who was shot down. He parachuted at the plane, was
Speaker 1: captured by the Nazis in Europe, and survived a Nazi
Speaker 1: pow camp. I mean, those experiences, I mean, it's there's
Speaker 1: just something so profoundly different when you look a person
Speaker 1: in the eye and they're they're like and especially those
Speaker 1: World War Two guys are so hesitant to tell you
Speaker 1: anything about what happened in the war. They didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about it. The most recent guy I met
Speaker 1: from that era was a Holocaust survivor who actually was
Speaker 1: not Jewish, but his dad was a doctor and like
Speaker 1: for that reason they captured him and you know, his
Speaker 1: son survived, uh. And he was telling me, and we
Speaker 1: had him on Senator Bradley Show, but he talked about
Speaker 1: that he not only escaped the Holocaust, he also escaped Communism.
Speaker 1: After that, So it was the house of horrors. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what Europe was during those years. Most people who
Speaker 1: were in Ukraine, Hungary, all those kind of countries they
Speaker 1: dealt with. The Nazis came through, and the Nazi extermination programs,
Speaker 1: and then the Communists they blew through and they started
Speaker 1: their programs and destroyed his land. He talked about, and
Speaker 1: he was saying, like I grew up. It's just the
Speaker 1: interesting thing to hear, Like He's like, I got to
Speaker 1: hear Hitler speeches on the radio and Mussolini speeches. I
Speaker 1: can't even begin to imagine. I mean, I I've met
Speaker 1: you know, at least one one person I met in
Speaker 1: um italy Um telling me about how he remembers as
Speaker 1: a child, Nazi's walking down the street like a Nazi uniform.
Speaker 1: Like the only thing I can think of that I
Speaker 1: can compare that too. That I have to compare to
Speaker 1: is like a scene in a movie when this is
Speaker 1: an actual person remembers this. Yeah, I mean, well you'll
Speaker 1: get to say that that you did meet you know,
Speaker 1: radical islamis that you I'm just saying, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what what that threat is going
Speaker 1: to be like fifty years from now, who knows, I
Speaker 1: can say I got to sit at the table with
Speaker 1: people who are actively plotting to kill me. Well, the
Speaker 1: crazy one person you can say that you sat with,
Speaker 1: it would definitely be a side. Yeah, that's a story. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. It's funny you mentioned that because I was
Speaker 1: just writing about, you know, recalling some of those experiences.
Speaker 1: But that was interesting and that was in the in
Speaker 1: the middle of the war too. Yeah. Um, all right,
Speaker 1: So before we get to George, I do feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, we've moved on from a lot of the
Speaker 1: controversy with the video that was posted. Everybody is aware
Speaker 1: of it. I thought that you wrote a great response
Speaker 1: to it. We talked about it on the last show,
Speaker 1: and there's really nothing more to say. But I do
Speaker 1: think this comment that you got is important because one
Speaker 1: of the two narratives that I've heard from people, um
Speaker 1: that are just completely untrue, that you know, you guys
Speaker 1: did this for quick bait and to make money and
Speaker 1: fame and fortune. And I heard one guy say, like,
Speaker 1: how's that working out? You put up a yeah, put
Speaker 1: up a video saying that you know, YouTube is a
Speaker 1: place where people make money, that's why it's posted. And
Speaker 1: you know, as we said on the last episode, the
Speaker 1: video is not monetized, so that tells you something. It's
Speaker 1: just people using emotions to leave their understanding of the issue.
Speaker 1: I mean, there aren't any facts in there. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then the other narrative was, you know, just generally families
Speaker 1: are pitched and it's it is true to say there
Speaker 1: are family members who are not happy with the video,
Speaker 1: I have no doubt my mind, but it's that's not
Speaker 1: the case. And the evidence is this comment. You know. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the video would be there with or without anything that
Speaker 1: we did or didn't do. UM. And I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I know that sounds fatalistic, maybe even dismissive, but if
Speaker 1: we had not edited the propaganda, added that video and
Speaker 1: published it, what would have gone viral in the preceding
Speaker 1: forty eight hours would have been the actual issis propaganda
Speaker 1: film UM, and people either either it would have hit
Speaker 1: some other outlet or people would have just ended up
Speaker 1: viewing it on live leak or the MEO. And you know,
Speaker 1: so this is kind of a classic case of shoot
Speaker 1: the messenger UM. And you know, I think people are
Speaker 1: more angry as I believe I said before that we
Speaker 1: published it more so than the existence of the video itself.
Speaker 1: But without us, um, you know, it would be just
Speaker 1: the propaganda video out there. Um without us if we
Speaker 1: were not around. If you know, if if I was
Speaker 1: murdered the way some of our esteemed special forces brethren
Speaker 1: have threatened to do to me and my family, UM,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't make a difference. There would still be soldiers
Speaker 1: using helmet cams and combat. There would still be Isis
Speaker 1: propaganda films. There would still be the Internet. Um. And
Speaker 1: for better or worse, that's not going to change. The
Speaker 1: operational environment will remain the same, and we have to
Speaker 1: find a way to come to terms with that. We're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to cocoon ourselves and isolate ourselves
Speaker 1: from these things. But what we can do is try
Speaker 1: to steer the narrative in another direction. We can try
Speaker 1: to capture the message. Rather than let ISIS own that
Speaker 1: space and let them steer their message towards propaganda, we
Speaker 1: can redirect it and say, look, honor these guys sacrifice
Speaker 1: and what they did and how they stood and fought,
Speaker 1: Rather than ISIS was just gonna say, you know, whatever
Speaker 1: their messages, we killed the Infidel blah blah blah. Um.
Speaker 1: So I did get an email the other day, uh
Speaker 1: from James Moriarty. He's the father of Jimmy Moriarty who
Speaker 1: was one of the three Green Berets that was murdered
Speaker 1: in Jordan's a few years ago. And h James Mr Moriarty,
Speaker 1: he fought tooth and nail to have the video, the
Speaker 1: CCTV footage of the shooting of his son and the
Speaker 1: other Green Berets released because there was a lot of
Speaker 1: lives out there and we had, you know, we had
Speaker 1: the backs of those guys from day one. We were
Speaker 1: out there out front of this saying these three guys
Speaker 1: in Jordan's were murdered and what the Jordanian government is
Speaker 1: saying is incorrect. And it's the same thing with these
Speaker 1: these four soldiers who were killed in nij Air before
Speaker 1: the god, before the bodies were even recovered, the Pentagon
Speaker 1: was plotting to throw that O. D A under the
Speaker 1: bus and say it's their fault, their risk assessment was
Speaker 1: all jacked up and try to blame the entire ambush
Speaker 1: on the team for purely political reason. And we had
Speaker 1: those guys backs from day one. But all that gets
Speaker 1: forgotten very quickly. UM. And I have to try to
Speaker 1: also not get emotional about it or have an emotional
Speaker 1: reaction because it does make me angry. UM. But I'll
Speaker 1: read what Mr Moriarty wrote here UM, in response to
Speaker 1: you know, the publishing of the video of the Niger ambush,
Speaker 1: he wrote, as the father of Staff Sergeant James Moriarty,
Speaker 1: fifth Special Forces Group k I A, Jordan in two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, I respectfully disagree, and this is in response
Speaker 1: to some blog post you know where they're trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, hate on me and and softwarepping what we do.
Speaker 1: I had to fight our government and then the Jordanian government,
Speaker 1: first to get the killer of our boys prosecuted and
Speaker 1: then to get the video of the death of my
Speaker 1: son released. I had discussions with my best friends from
Speaker 1: the Marines I served with in Vietnam, with the other
Speaker 1: families who lost their loved one. Two heated discussions within
Speaker 1: my own family, some making the same arguments you make.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I decided that I
Speaker 1: would watch the video of the murder of my son,
Speaker 1: no matter how painful, and I would haunt the killer
Speaker 1: of my son to his dying day and I would
Speaker 1: fight even my own government to demand public release of
Speaker 1: the only objective evidence of what happened that fateful day.
Speaker 1: Our Special Operations troops, seals, MARSOC, special forces in the
Speaker 1: Air Force, commandos are the finest warriors alive. Today we
Speaker 1: are using them up like using a two year old
Speaker 1: samurai sword to cut a tangled fishing line. Too many deployments,
Speaker 1: too many combat tours, too many months and years away
Speaker 1: from their young children and their fearful spouses, and too
Speaker 1: many deaths with no meaningful purpose. Soft REP and the
Speaker 1: rest of the free press are the primary way we have,
Speaker 1: and sometimes the only way that we have, to learn
Speaker 1: the truth. These families, who have suffered exactly the same
Speaker 1: loss as my family still have no meaningful answers from
Speaker 1: our government. Is this video ugly? Yep? I cried when
Speaker 1: I watched it, and I'm mourned for these families who
Speaker 1: have suffered exactly the same loss as my family. You
Speaker 1: sit in your cheap seat, taking cheap shots at soft REP,
Speaker 1: never wearing that cold gold star on your lapel, criticizing
Speaker 1: those who try to bring us the truth, no matter
Speaker 1: how ugly and cold it is. That is far better
Speaker 1: than the pabulum we have been fed by our political
Speaker 1: leaders for the past two decades. No matter how unappetizing
Speaker 1: it may be, these endless BS wars are not going
Speaker 1: to stop until the American public says enough is enough.
Speaker 1: And if watching these videos brings that about sooner more
Speaker 1: the better. Let me point out that the person who
Speaker 1: wore the camera was one of our own, and when
Speaker 1: you attend combat wearing a live camera, there's always some
Speaker 1: risk that the truth at show may not be the
Speaker 1: truth you intended to capture. Let us all celebrate the
Speaker 1: courage under fire of these remarkable warriors and let us
Speaker 1: mourn their tragic deaths. So that was pretty heartfelt from
Speaker 1: from Mr Moriarty, and uh, I had more trouble reading
Speaker 1: that than I thought I would. Yeah, no, and I
Speaker 1: get it, and um, it's it's important to read comments
Speaker 1: like that. I think. You know, we've read just a
Speaker 1: plethora of comments in these past few days, and as
Speaker 1: as you said, many of them are people not related
Speaker 1: to the families of these guys, in many cases are civilians,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the angers most directed.
Speaker 1: I said from from the very beginning, there are very
Speaker 1: real and valid concerns that I under I completely understand,
Speaker 1: and that's why we read, you know, two different perspectives
Speaker 1: on the issue on the last podcast. I do not
Speaker 1: dismiss the people who are upset or think that this
Speaker 1: should not be posted at all. I understand and respect
Speaker 1: their views and I want to acknowledge them. Um. But yes,
Speaker 1: then at a certain point it rolls into this sort
Speaker 1: of nebula veteran rage cycle where it's like we're just
Speaker 1: virtue signaling to each other. Um, And what does that accomplish?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, And if you guys want to
Speaker 1: listen back to there's actually these two podcasts, goes with
Speaker 1: Philibonti during the intro um. But yeah, I thought that
Speaker 1: was a really important email to read. And and we've
Speaker 1: always had guys like that on to to talk about
Speaker 1: their story. Um we hadn't We had on Jeff falcol
Speaker 1: whose son was a Green Beret who died, and we
Speaker 1: always try to get those stories out and remember these
Speaker 1: guys in a positive light. Yeah. I don't know what
Speaker 1: to say anymore. I mean, I I've done as best
Speaker 1: I possibly could. Maybe I've fallen short, um to try
Speaker 1: to bring the truth out to you know, not let
Speaker 1: the team guys. Let the guy on the ground get
Speaker 1: thrown under the bus by our bureaucracy and our political process. Um.
Speaker 1: I've always stuck up for the soldier. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: it is what it is. You know, you do what
Speaker 1: is to be done and you take the heat for that.
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to complain about it. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: with you, all right. Well, let's get over to George Hand.
Speaker 1: We haven't had him on probably in nine ten months
Speaker 1: or something like that, and George is a great guest,
Speaker 1: so looking forward to having him on. So back on
Speaker 1: the show for the first time in a very long time.
Speaker 1: Is George Hand former Delta Force, one of the favorite
Speaker 1: writers at the site who you could follow at George
Speaker 1: E Hand the fourth which is George e hand I
Speaker 1: v UM and George currently works in combating human trafficking,
Speaker 1: which if you listen to the last show, it is
Speaker 1: very eye opening. But George is very often posting with
Speaker 1: us in the writer's group that we have like so
Speaker 1: much stuff about what goes on in human trafficking between
Speaker 1: tattoos and these girls have in the situations that they're
Speaker 1: in that is like a whole new world to all
Speaker 1: of us. And as George often says like the stuff
Speaker 1: that he sees is not something that normal people are
Speaker 1: able to comprehend. A subculture, Yeah, but that all of
Speaker 1: us are like very thankful if there's guys out there
Speaker 1: like you doing something about it. That's that's really a
Speaker 1: gracious introduction, and I appreciate that. Um, I agree with
Speaker 1: what you're saying it it uh, I mean, I really
Speaker 1: enjoy having the body of people available at the software
Speaker 1: with the Software Writers Group. You know, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: my observation is that every one of them a pretty
Speaker 1: intelligent person, probably above average average intelligence, and they genuinely
Speaker 1: seem to want to know about, you know, the human trafficking.
Speaker 1: I mean, most people do. I've never had one person say,
Speaker 1: you know, there's other issues out there, we need to
Speaker 1: concern ourselves with other things. Now it's pretty much an
Speaker 1: issue foremost in a lot of people's mind. But but
Speaker 1: the writers want to hear about it. They ask questions,
Speaker 1: Um regarding the tattoo examples, Um, you know those are
Speaker 1: those are usually same day postings. So like I find
Speaker 1: these people posting online or being or being posted for
Speaker 1: them online with some photos that have uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a typical trafficking tattooed with all these indicators on it,
Speaker 1: and I like to get those out to the software
Speaker 1: writers groups so they can see what's going on. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I wouldn't put it past any
Speaker 1: one of them to be in some mundane area and
Speaker 1: like have their eye catch particular tattoo and then you know,
Speaker 1: start wondering about the rest of the the aura of
Speaker 1: the person and pick up on a few indicators. Um,
Speaker 1: there's there's there's a plethora of stories out there. The
Speaker 1: last when I heard was from an airline, uh flight hostess.
Speaker 1: She started noticing this young woman and the guy that
Speaker 1: she was with, and she noticed enough odd things about them,
Speaker 1: about their demeanor that by the end of the flight
Speaker 1: she notified somebody and they round, they roused at this
Speaker 1: guy up and in fact he was trafficking or you know,
Speaker 1: across the countree and so she was liberated this guy.
Speaker 1: I mean that transporting a person across the state line
Speaker 1: for the purpose of sex trafficking, that's that's called a
Speaker 1: man act, and that's a federal offense. So when when
Speaker 1: we see those here in Albuquerque, and we do see him.
Speaker 1: The biggest bust we had last year involved. It was
Speaker 1: was a man act. I mean, the guy left Albuquerque,
Speaker 1: took one of a couple of his women with him,
Speaker 1: you know, they went to Phoenix, they went to Vegas.
Speaker 1: They came back from Vegas and one of them was gone,
Speaker 1: and he had picked up a new person that was
Speaker 1: under age and brought her to Albuquerque, and we met
Speaker 1: about the fence. Win, Oh, that's ours, we want them.
Speaker 1: It's time to roll this, you know this Johnson up after.
Speaker 1: I think it was nineteen years nineteen months that we
Speaker 1: were that. I was actively pursuing the guy, you know,
Speaker 1: watching him, keeping tabs on him. And I had a
Speaker 1: lot of other folks in town that were just like
Speaker 1: catch him, drive and reported into me, and we always
Speaker 1: had a pattern of life on the guy. Um, George,
Speaker 1: I have a question for you real quick. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: people always ask, you know, what can I do? How
Speaker 1: can I help? And I think you know that airline
Speaker 1: um stewardess or flight attendant, you know, she obviously picked
Speaker 1: up on some indicators and you know potentially, you know,
Speaker 1: pulled that young woman out of a very bad situation.
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could illuminate some of that
Speaker 1: and tell people like, what are some of the indicators
Speaker 1: of human trafficking that are not necessarily obvious to someone
Speaker 1: like yourself who isn't initiated so to speak into the
Speaker 1: world that you can you know, you can read the
Speaker 1: language of that subculture because you've spent so much time
Speaker 1: studying it. What are the things that you know, the
Speaker 1: regular citizen can look for, um, that should kind of
Speaker 1: um trigger a response that like, Okay, this girl is
Speaker 1: in trouble or boy, if that's the case, you know,
Speaker 1: I need to make a report the law enforcement. That's
Speaker 1: that's a good question because, um, but a lot of times,
Speaker 1: at certain phases in their careers quote unquote, you know,
Speaker 1: as being traffic victims. At certain phases there they're um
Speaker 1: not necessarily wanted to be helped, are there even they
Speaker 1: don't even think to help help is a possibility. So
Speaker 1: they just kind of resigned to the to the perceived
Speaker 1: fact that this is just the way life is for
Speaker 1: him and this is what they have to deal with.
Speaker 1: But in other cases, um, yeah, like you said, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like they want out. They they're just not sure
Speaker 1: how to get out. Um, They're just wait to see
Speaker 1: what happens. And yeah, yeah, there are some some really
Speaker 1: typical indicators. And I'm gonna start with the no brainers.
Speaker 1: It is the tattoos. Um. I mean, I'm constant. I
Speaker 1: can't even turn off my you know, instinct to look
Speaker 1: at tattoos. I mean, if I if I'm out in
Speaker 1: social setting, you know, at a restaurant or cafe, man
Speaker 1: I tattoos constantly catch my eye. And the tattoos of
Speaker 1: a crown in particular, you know, um, a crown tattooed,
Speaker 1: especially like on the neck, in in and in a
Speaker 1: place that looks like rather painful to get a tattoo
Speaker 1: if you're just a tattoo enthusiast. But I've seen him
Speaker 1: a lot on the neck, the latest one. And in
Speaker 1: conjunction with the tattoos, you'll see some very um flowery
Speaker 1: scroll text initials is what they are. You might not
Speaker 1: even recollect what's that junk under the tattoo under the crown,
Speaker 1: you know, it just looks like a bunch of swirly stuff.
Speaker 1: And if if you if you got a better look,
Speaker 1: you've realized that there were some letters and they're probably
Speaker 1: most likely initials. And the initials are those of the
Speaker 1: trafficker or the pimp because it's jack. It's like you
Speaker 1: mentioned yesterday yesterday in the forum that that's a signal
Speaker 1: of ownership, and it actually, it absolutely is a sign
Speaker 1: of ownership. I mean a guy will you know, uh,
Speaker 1: bring up, bring up a female, you know, nurture her,
Speaker 1: bring her up into trafficking pow she's trapped in traffic,
Speaker 1: and he will put his mark on her, which, like
Speaker 1: I said, a lot of times, is the crown tattoo
Speaker 1: with initials. We've seen barcodes, actual barcodes tattooed on say
Speaker 1: the back of the back, the neck, you know, a
Speaker 1: place where you know, the woman could drop her hair.
Speaker 1: Now the tattoo is gone, but if she pulled her
Speaker 1: hair up, yeah, I could be seen. Um there's a
Speaker 1: tattoo we call chest plates, and they essentially run all
Speaker 1: the way across from like shoulder to shoulder, and they
Speaker 1: could be I've seen a lot where it's just like
Speaker 1: a you know, like beautiful or precious, that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: and it will be ornate to the extent that it
Speaker 1: may have like roses, diamonds and stars. Are those will
Speaker 1: snap my neck if they're if they're going by me,
Speaker 1: I will just see those and pick up on that immediately. UM.
Speaker 1: Because you know, when a victim is the quote unquote
Speaker 1: property of trafficker or pimp, UM, she is totally hands
Speaker 1: off to the tune of the power of that trafficker. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, as much as he can uh you know,
Speaker 1: corral her and keep her from doing anything she really
Speaker 1: wants to do, just you know, uh, perform according to
Speaker 1: his standard in his demands. She the traffic won't even
Speaker 1: won't even make eye contact with another mail in public.
Speaker 1: You can't do that. That's you know, the trafficker will
Speaker 1: pick up on that and be there there's going to
Speaker 1: be some consequences to be made. Um. And it came
Speaker 1: up in the last couple of weeks writer's form as
Speaker 1: well that uh that there will be a post in
Speaker 1: um particular social media where traffic where traffickers are posting
Speaker 1: their victims, and very seldom, if ever, the victims post
Speaker 1: for themselves. It's usually the trafficker that puts them in there.
Speaker 1: Like back Page. You know, I mean, there's there's no
Speaker 1: there's no denying that Backpage is still one of the
Speaker 1: leading um you know forms that even after the arrests
Speaker 1: last year where they moved in on and then they
Speaker 1: moved in on a bunch of people who were running
Speaker 1: back Page. Yeah, they did. Um the status of the
Speaker 1: status of Backpage, I don't know the recent status of them.
Speaker 1: They've they've been hammered several times, particularly in the state
Speaker 1: of California. UM the the owner, i mean, the actual
Speaker 1: founder of it refused. He didn't even make a court trial,
Speaker 1: you know, he just didn't go. So UM. They we
Speaker 1: noticed that Backpage something that they did was and we
Speaker 1: could tell that they were already prepared for this months
Speaker 1: if not a couple of years in advance. When we
Speaker 1: when the law really started to close down on backpage
Speaker 1: regarding you know, the trafficking of persons. Um there, their
Speaker 1: servers went. Their servers went to mirror servers ones that
Speaker 1: well exactly offshore um which prompted Deliver prompted Deliver Fund
Speaker 1: to pick up an analyst that was overseas in the
Speaker 1: European area. And his whole job all day long was
Speaker 1: too was the monitor. And he he reported and identified
Speaker 1: a server that that all of back pages ads were
Speaker 1: going to. First then they were they were showing up
Speaker 1: on back page proper. Uh. And we did, I mean,
Speaker 1: we even did a quick test. It was real simple.
Speaker 1: You know, my boss called me up, said at Georgia
Speaker 1: and needs you to post a backpage add you know,
Speaker 1: on just on backpage whatever. So I spent five bucks
Speaker 1: posted on this on this other server, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure enough it showed up on back page. Interesting, Yeah
Speaker 1: we did, That's what they were doing. Um and honestly,
Speaker 1: who knows what who knows the next thing that they're
Speaker 1: going to do in you know, the cat and mouse change.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they have a couple of their angles ready,
Speaker 1: but it might you know, they might not have a
Speaker 1: chance to revert to their plans C and D because
Speaker 1: I mean, the law might just be too hard on
Speaker 1: their on their tails. Um well, I think we uh,
Speaker 1: we talked about a little bit last time, didn't we have.
Speaker 1: You know, websites like Backpage are kind of a double
Speaker 1: edged sword because yeah, it you know, facilitates the trafficking
Speaker 1: of women, but it also is the go to place.
Speaker 1: You know, the police know that, and if not backpage
Speaker 1: would be you know, the pimps could kind of scatter
Speaker 1: and sell their product all over the place. But back pages,
Speaker 1: you know, it provides people like you and law enforcement
Speaker 1: officers a place like you know you can go there
Speaker 1: and try to interdict these people. Yeah, you're right. And
Speaker 1: when we when we we got the chat, the actual
Speaker 1: channel for escorts, you know, eliminated or closed down in
Speaker 1: back page. You know, that's when the next morning, you know,
Speaker 1: we sat down to do business as usual and there
Speaker 1: was a little bit of alarm across the board that hey,
Speaker 1: I mean all our people are gone, all our targets
Speaker 1: are gone. We lost them because of that channel. And
Speaker 1: the answer was no, you know, they just regrouped, they
Speaker 1: lifted and shifted fire to seeking women. And I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of the usual suspects on the massage therapist
Speaker 1: annal back page. They're just you know, they're picking up
Speaker 1: different places. And there's there's quite a few websites out
Speaker 1: there that are are that are also doing essentially the
Speaker 1: same thing, you know, a different flavor of the same thing.
Speaker 1: Um uh. With regard to you know, the pimps scattering,
Speaker 1: I have said it, I've said it often at the
Speaker 1: turn of the year that with regard to our city's
Speaker 1: back page, the profile of the back page is just
Speaker 1: changed quite a lot since because we ambered him so
Speaker 1: bad in the city that it just looks different like
Speaker 1: I log in and look and I got to run
Speaker 1: through several in some cases like two full rows of
Speaker 1: posts that are our stock photos. You know, they're not
Speaker 1: they're just representatives. They're not they're real people, but they're
Speaker 1: they're not necessary. They're not at all the people who
Speaker 1: are going to run into if you actually set up
Speaker 1: an encounter with him, um, and they're typically associated with
Speaker 1: massage parlors and that sort of thing. I'm I'm just wondering, George,
Speaker 1: as someone who you know, like my knowledge of back
Speaker 1: Page is basically what you tell me, Like, would you
Speaker 1: say that this is something that falls under free speech? Well,
Speaker 1: that's the that's the basis for the court case with
Speaker 1: the founders of back Page, you know, is that their
Speaker 1: stances all the amendment covering that in the Constitution, you know,
Speaker 1: free speech. That's our basis. That's our premise for doing
Speaker 1: what we do. And here's why it's a strong enough
Speaker 1: argument to keep you know, the court's tied up with
Speaker 1: these people for for this long. I mean it's been
Speaker 1: years now, it's not just months, but it's been years.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, that's what's keeping them, that's what's keeping
Speaker 1: them alive so far, We've gone to a lot of
Speaker 1: we're taking a lot of steps, a lot of angles
Speaker 1: to go after and even the extent of trying of guilty. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, internet service providers that are hosting their servers,
Speaker 1: guilting them into you know change uh discount, disenrolling them
Speaker 1: in their service, and credit cards as well, like a
Speaker 1: major credit card company, you know, Chase whatever, Chase guilting
Speaker 1: them and says, you know that so that you're supporting
Speaker 1: back page and you know, human trafficking. How is how's
Speaker 1: that going to look at the news? And of course
Speaker 1: they're well, that's not gonna look good at all. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not going to do business with those people anymore.
Speaker 1: So going after the money, um is the same thing
Speaker 1: and with other illegal activity, right Because I don't know
Speaker 1: if either of you guys have ever seen that documentary
Speaker 1: Prescription Thugs, but it's interesting how you know, uh, the
Speaker 1: guy who directs it, who admits that he was using
Speaker 1: prescription drugs at the time and he was addicted, like
Speaker 1: he was buying them through Craigslist, and he brought it
Speaker 1: up to his congressman, who was Congressman lou And California,
Speaker 1: and he was from what he showed they were completely
Speaker 1: unaware that Craig's List was being used for you know
Speaker 1: what you do, George, and then also selling prescription drugs illegally. Yeah. Craigslist, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, our our founder, Nick McKinley, he always he's
Speaker 1: always said that, you know, backpages like the Walmart of
Speaker 1: human trafficking, you know, and uh, we all get it,
Speaker 1: you know, I know exactly what he means. And it's true,
Speaker 1: it really is true. And then at some point along
Speaker 1: the line another some political figure, get what states she's from,
Speaker 1: but she said that same thing, almost words her word,
Speaker 1: but she said about Craigslist. She goes, Craig's List is
Speaker 1: the Walmart of human trafficking. And I mean, you could
Speaker 1: take this flattery on the one hand, or you know,
Speaker 1: plagiarism of the other hand. You know, come up with
Speaker 1: your own catchy phrases. But she's basically quoting Nick McKinley.
Speaker 1: And you know, I agree that Craigslist is UM. They're
Speaker 1: definitely a culprit. You know, they've got their channels. Some
Speaker 1: of the cases I've taken on involved person's posting on Craigslist,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And you know, with regard to prescription drugs.
Speaker 1: It would be almost laughable if they weren't doing that
Speaker 1: on Craig's list. That that's just that's such a viable
Speaker 1: medium for you know, the elicit distribution of opiates and narcotics, etcetera,
Speaker 1: especially for doctors who are crooked, which there are a few. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the faster they can move their product, the
Speaker 1: more money they're going to get. So, yeah, craigslists, you know,
Speaker 1: there's some some of the other ones, um erotic mug
Speaker 1: shots is one I was actually tasked recently with. I
Speaker 1: was given a list of about i want to say,
Speaker 1: between eight about eight or ten of the major social
Speaker 1: media websites that had channels and we're facilitating, you know,
Speaker 1: human trafficking. And the task was, Hey, George, take these
Speaker 1: man's check them out, research them, get in, get an account,
Speaker 1: you get a user name and a password, and and
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll have all of those user names and
Speaker 1: passwords for all these websites, find out how they how
Speaker 1: they accept payment um. And any time an investigation is
Speaker 1: going on where one of our supporters or one of
Speaker 1: our leo you need to get in there, they can
Speaker 1: just ask us. We can give them a log in
Speaker 1: a password. They don't have to bumble around and try
Speaker 1: to set up an account um and end up paying
Speaker 1: out of their own pocket for the account, because we
Speaker 1: will already have account open and pay for them. All
Speaker 1: they have to do is log in and and just
Speaker 1: go after their investigation. Um, and we're I discovered really
Speaker 1: quickly actually with the first website I went to beyond
Speaker 1: back Page, was they could really smart and did they
Speaker 1: didn't do away with bitcoin, like they still fully use bitcoin.
Speaker 1: It did away completely with the bus that customers have
Speaker 1: to do have to deal with regarding bitcoin your backpage. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I purchased bitcoin and purchase bitcoins
Speaker 1: for our other operators, and so I know how to
Speaker 1: do it, and I've been in there. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like work in the stock market. Yeah. I paid twenty
Speaker 1: five bucks for about seven dollars with the bitcoin, and
Speaker 1: there was a hassle. I had a wallet and blockchain
Speaker 1: and attle book, you know, all the buzzwords. But that
Speaker 1: really is a hassle, and that's that turns some people off.
Speaker 1: I mean, the customer is a customer, but these other sites,
Speaker 1: I mean they're like, hey, just buy credits. You buy
Speaker 1: credits with our website. You want five bucks of credits, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's twenty five bucks. That'll probably get you twenty five posts,
Speaker 1: you know, a simple post. It's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of photos. And the bitcoin part the website takes care
Speaker 1: of that. So they're basically creating their own currency. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they're just they're they're an interface, their go
Speaker 1: between between bitcoin and their website service. So they just
Speaker 1: handled that bit of overhead for the customers. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: disturb bag on. I'll go on erotic mug shots and
Speaker 1: none of them are freaking secret. I should just I
Speaker 1: should have had a list and just so I could
Speaker 1: rattle them off. Yeah, it's a it's that's a that's
Speaker 1: a classic fiat currency system. You know. It's like when
Speaker 1: the dollar used to be backed up by gold. What
Speaker 1: he's saying is they made up they made up a
Speaker 1: currency of proxy currency backed up by bitcoin. Yeah, my compliments, Jack,
Speaker 1: that's that is correct. But I tie a credit card
Speaker 1: to the website and just forget about it. You know,
Speaker 1: I can just go on and make my post and
Speaker 1: the credit card gets charged and the bitcoin transaction gets handled,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's all gravy. So that is going on,
Speaker 1: and I wondered what was going to happen, because I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I genius, but I'm not real stupid either,
Speaker 1: And this bitcoin thing is, let's kick in my butt.
Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult? How much of trafficking do
Speaker 1: you think? You know, how much of those monetary transactions
Speaker 1: and human trafficking take place using cryptocurrencies? Do you think? I?
Speaker 1: I would think, Jack, I would think most of it, really,
Speaker 1: most of it? Does? Most of it? Because um, I
Speaker 1: mean the bitcoin is so available now and it continues
Speaker 1: to be more available. Like there's there's a bitcoin machines
Speaker 1: at gas stations, you know, like an a t M.
Speaker 1: Like I looked him up in Aliquerque one day. See
Speaker 1: how many of them. I'm like, holy crap. Or you know,
Speaker 1: the verywhere and one of them really like a quarter
Speaker 1: mile from my house. But you can go there and
Speaker 1: slam swipe a car and get a bitcoin credit. You know,
Speaker 1: It's just I've never seen that. It's pretty crazy. And
Speaker 1: I mean I assume now what you're getting is a
Speaker 1: very small fraction of a bitcoin, because just a few
Speaker 1: years ago bitcoin was worth I mean not that long ago,
Speaker 1: under a dollar and then to a few dollars and
Speaker 1: now worth tens of thousands of dollars. How much is
Speaker 1: it worth currently, George, I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much it is. I'm gonna look so that I
Speaker 1: don't sound like an idiot, but I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, I don't know if how long
Speaker 1: ago you you were dealing with it, because I'm wondering if,
Speaker 1: like you were able to make money on the side
Speaker 1: just purchasing bitcoin. No. I I lost money, um, and
Speaker 1: I did very little of it. I mean I did
Speaker 1: some my actually, my daughter was doing some work for
Speaker 1: us for a while. I had her doing some things
Speaker 1: and she had had to run up some posts on
Speaker 1: back pages. She used bitcoin. You know, we lost money
Speaker 1: on it. Never came out ahead. So bitcoin. Bitcoin currently
Speaker 1: is eight thousand, seven six dollars, but at its height
Speaker 1: was over nine dollars for one bitcoin. Yeah yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like working stock market, guys going.
Speaker 1: People can go in there, if they're savvy, you can
Speaker 1: you know, come out with a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of money legally or you know not. I mean on
Speaker 1: the up and up that is. And then there as
Speaker 1: the years go on, there's a number of scams that
Speaker 1: crop up that you know, other folks can can execute
Speaker 1: to get some more monetary gain. The UM. I think
Speaker 1: when one of the big mysteries or one of the
Speaker 1: big controversies that has cropped up recently is like well bitcoin,
Speaker 1: the you know, the the major beauty of it is
Speaker 1: the anonymity, and a bitcoin can't be traced. For a blockchain,
Speaker 1: you can't be traced from from a user to use it,
Speaker 1: point to point, from user to end users. UM. And
Speaker 1: now there's a number of persons of companies of services
Speaker 1: that sporadically had kind of cropped up and said hey,
Speaker 1: we could do it, you know, and that's a big
Speaker 1: question mark, and they get attention immediately with regard to
Speaker 1: our own our own organization, you know, to us, that
Speaker 1: very important if it's true. And we've had a number
Speaker 1: of people that you know, we've engaged and have contacted
Speaker 1: us and that we've sat down with it said, um,
Speaker 1: can you really do it? Can you demonstrate it? And
Speaker 1: that's what it's all about. I Mean, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of capabilities, technical capabilities out there, UM that that
Speaker 1: come up to us and say hey, we're able to
Speaker 1: do this certain thing. You know, trace this cell phone, Like, well, really,
Speaker 1: how how how well can you trace the phone? Can you?
Speaker 1: Can you give me a name? Can you give me
Speaker 1: an address? You know? And they're like, well, yes, okay, demonstrated.
Speaker 1: If here's a here, here's an example case for it.
Speaker 1: We already know the answer to it. But you tell
Speaker 1: us what it is and if they come back with
Speaker 1: good data, then it's yeah. And it's that. That was
Speaker 1: the same with the bitcoin claims, like yeah, if if,
Speaker 1: if there's somebody out there that can do that, trace
Speaker 1: it all the way through, then that is a very
Speaker 1: powerful thing and we're gonna want to know about it.
Speaker 1: The LEO is gonna want to know about it to
Speaker 1: be able to do it in their investigations. Um uh,
Speaker 1: we find that another avenue of attack, if you will.
Speaker 1: We've been engaging in is assets in the southwestern United
Speaker 1: States that I've got a finger on the money transfers
Speaker 1: that are able to see the money, um, you know,
Speaker 1: being being sent from point to point. You know, because
Speaker 1: a lot of times the like the pimps of the
Speaker 1: traffickers might not have a legitimate bank account. Um, so
Speaker 1: they do it through the commercial money business like Western
Speaker 1: Union and such and that can be if it's not
Speaker 1: the FED, you know, if it's not the Federal Reserve,
Speaker 1: it can be seen. And we've seen, I mean, even
Speaker 1: with regard to the massage parlor business, what we're able
Speaker 1: to see them doing transfers, you know, to New York,
Speaker 1: from New York to China or from in the case
Speaker 1: of one of my cases, Um from Albuquerque takes a
Speaker 1: drive to California once a month and from there about
Speaker 1: anywhere from from well up to twenty dollars gets wired
Speaker 1: directly to a city in China that we know the
Speaker 1: name of. And that's with regularity, you know, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it. They're working massage parlor, getting a certain
Speaker 1: sum of money that is that they're not supposed to
Speaker 1: be sitting on, so it's time to get rid of it,
Speaker 1: and they wire it, um, you know, through the money
Speaker 1: service business to their country origin. And that is that's
Speaker 1: that's the first time I've ever heard that described. And
Speaker 1: you know, those massage parlors are everywhere. I mean, we
Speaker 1: have in my neighborhood, and you know, it's like one
Speaker 1: of those things that we've all gotten so used to
Speaker 1: seeing them, you don't even really think about it anymore.
Speaker 1: You know where the windows are all like not boarded
Speaker 1: up but painted over, or there's curtains you can never
Speaker 1: see inside Asian massage parlors christmass on the outside. George,
Speaker 1: how how does that work? I mean, are these like family?
Speaker 1: These it clans or is it triads like Chinese mafia
Speaker 1: running these organizations? Like how does that work? I'll tell you, Jacket,
Speaker 1: you can cut me off. You guys could cut me
Speaker 1: off at any time, because we're super interested in this.
Speaker 1: I actually have a similar question, but I want to
Speaker 1: hear this. I have a lot, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of experience working massage parlors U and I cringe when
Speaker 1: the subject comes up and it's like I explained to
Speaker 1: we had our weekly meeting yesterday with all the representatives
Speaker 1: of the of the city Leo Um and it was
Speaker 1: a really it was a great turnout. There was the
Speaker 1: last guy that showed up, that was the last seat
Speaker 1: left in the room, and I was really impressed. Like
Speaker 1: a while one more person shows up, they're gonna have
Speaker 1: to stand. But anyway, the subject of the subject of
Speaker 1: the massage partlers came up with with with one of
Speaker 1: the guys who stayed afterwards and said, hey, I get
Speaker 1: like three calls a day people complaining about massage parlors
Speaker 1: and we're just all out of angles. Next, what are
Speaker 1: the new creative angles and the new creative angle? Um,
Speaker 1: we agree across the board is going to be follow
Speaker 1: the money, see the money, follow it and that's where
Speaker 1: you're gonna that's where you're gonna find the management coming. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's quite a quite a lot of them are out there.
Speaker 1: I honestly learned the name of probably the one and
Speaker 1: only legitimate massage therapy places in town here, meaning all
Speaker 1: the rest of them are are illegal, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean I think we have according to rub maps, and
Speaker 1: that's rub maps dot com. Um, they keep tabs on
Speaker 1: the locations of all the massage powers across the United States. Um,
Speaker 1: for the sake of the user, Like, these are the
Speaker 1: best places to go to. These are the prices, these
Speaker 1: are the store hours, and these are um right ups
Speaker 1: from John's who have business. What they have what they Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you can get it. You can get a paid account.
Speaker 1: That was actually one of my sites to go to
Speaker 1: and investigate. You can get a paid account. I get
Speaker 1: what you get extra by paying for a rub maps
Speaker 1: account because you can surely get, in my opinion, everything
Speaker 1: you want to know about massage parlors in any given
Speaker 1: city without a paid account. But UM, I had to
Speaker 1: do a whole lot of surveillance on a bunch of
Speaker 1: massage partners in town. What I found is this. UM
Speaker 1: I found that the majority of them are owned and
Speaker 1: operated by uh erstance from China, not family owned persons
Speaker 1: from China, of some from Vietnam, the Asian countries. And
Speaker 1: I found by looking at three or four of them
Speaker 1: that the same guy was showing up and was being driven,
Speaker 1: you know, he was. He's a guy who doesn't drive
Speaker 1: a car. He someone drives him because he's important. And
Speaker 1: he was showing up at all of them. So what
Speaker 1: I was seeing there was centralized management to an extent.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know how many he went to. I
Speaker 1: knew he was going to the three that I was
Speaker 1: trying to watch on a daily basis. UM I found
Speaker 1: also that I closed a whole bunch of them down
Speaker 1: like many nights in a row. And by closing him down,
Speaker 1: I mean like I'm watching him when they closed. I
Speaker 1: know they closed, and and if I need help, I
Speaker 1: get other people out there to watch, you know, different
Speaker 1: different sides of the building. What I was seeing is
Speaker 1: that they were closing down and nobody was leaving or not.
Speaker 1: Everybody was leaving, which means and that's a big deal
Speaker 1: because it means that there are workers inside are sleeping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can get them on labor wives too. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: can think by city code or building opp beneficial occupancy
Speaker 1: standards that you know that you can't rack out overnight
Speaker 1: in a place like that. It just doesn't have the provisions.
Speaker 1: But the girls are in there, they're you know, they're
Speaker 1: locked in. They don't they um, they don't have money. Really,
Speaker 1: they don't have money. They're they're made to pay for
Speaker 1: everything they use in there. But you know, they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna need a massage bed, so they have to
Speaker 1: pay a rent on that. Um, they have to pay
Speaker 1: a rent on their garbage can they use because they're
Speaker 1: going to need to throw stuff away. They get charged
Speaker 1: for that. So they get charged for all these little things.
Speaker 1: They get nickeled and dimes and in the end they
Speaker 1: don't really have a great paycheck and so they're happy
Speaker 1: to stay in there. They don't they don't have money.
Speaker 1: They don't they don't speak English, for the most part.
Speaker 1: Um In fact, I've been I've been tasked several times
Speaker 1: like hey, George, we need you to come and talk
Speaker 1: to this woman. Talk to these women. Um you know,
Speaker 1: ride with these people that were trying to rescue. Ride
Speaker 1: with them, so we'll have somebody to talk to. Or
Speaker 1: just listen to this interview and tell us if the
Speaker 1: woman is really saying what she's saying in Chinese. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I think I could do that. So
Speaker 1: a lot of times I can't tell you everything they said,
Speaker 1: but I can say, yeah, that is basically what she
Speaker 1: was talking about. That's what she said, is what she said.
Speaker 1: What's incredible, too, is that, you know, especially like here
Speaker 1: in New York. I mean, you'll be at a coffee
Speaker 1: shop and there's all these people who consider themselves be
Speaker 1: like progressive liberals and women's rights and me too, and
Speaker 1: all this right next door, literally right next door, is
Speaker 1: a massage power where women are almost certainly being kept
Speaker 1: as sex slaves. Like that just bogle that that boggles
Speaker 1: the mind. That's that's a fact. And that came up
Speaker 1: with um Our our our lead Albuquerque analysts. It used
Speaker 1: to be me until just just a very a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago. Now we actually have one. She's really sharp,
Speaker 1: and she said that very same thing. She's you know
Speaker 1: that night and day, you know, walk next door and uh.
Speaker 1: But um, we've gone after the massage parlors with regards
Speaker 1: to building codes because we've we've noted for examples, like
Speaker 1: I watched a guy that he stayed in an apartment.
Speaker 1: Some of the women stayed at that apartment. If this
Speaker 1: guy's whole job was to drive them to work in
Speaker 1: the morning, so he'd drive them there, make sure they're
Speaker 1: up and running. Did he'd go back to his apartment.
Speaker 1: He'd stop at a smoke shop, almost like nine or
Speaker 1: ten times a day at a smoke shop. Did he
Speaker 1: go back at one o'clock he would go in and
Speaker 1: he would change shift, you know, new girls. Then he'd
Speaker 1: come back, and then at night he would pick them up.
Speaker 1: The ones that you know weren't actually staying there, and
Speaker 1: they stayed right there in his apartment. Um, that was
Speaker 1: his whole job, was log support. And we noticed that
Speaker 1: he was like going to Walmart or Costco coming back
Speaker 1: with all these jugs of water, you know, and I thought,
Speaker 1: what swimpling? Yeah, because they're not going anywhere because the
Speaker 1: girls aren't going anywhere. Yeah, and they don't have water
Speaker 1: to them, just don't have it's not I mean. And
Speaker 1: that is that raises a flag that their building is
Speaker 1: not up to code, which means we can bring in
Speaker 1: you know, inspectors and they can shut that place down
Speaker 1: for being out of compliance with building code. And that
Speaker 1: was that was a great That was a great idea
Speaker 1: at the time. And what what the result of that was.
Speaker 1: Instead of a bunch of massage partners, you know, skidaddling
Speaker 1: and closing down in staid, a bunch of massage partners
Speaker 1: came up to code, you know. And so it's like
Speaker 1: face palm, like, wow, we didn't expect that, because yeah,
Speaker 1: that costs money. So I had a question for you,
Speaker 1: George that might be kind of out there, but I
Speaker 1: actually just want to hear your perspective from you know,
Speaker 1: an expert. Uh. It's just kind of interesting, I thought,
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if it pertains to your world now.
Speaker 1: So I grew up in a pretty upscale, affluent part
Speaker 1: of Long Island. Um, you know where the main street
Speaker 1: where all the shops are pretty high rent. You see
Speaker 1: businesses come and go and I remember about ten years
Speaker 1: ago a place open that was like a tarot card
Speaker 1: reading place, you know, fortune tellers, and and my immediate
Speaker 1: reaction was, like, this place isn't going to stay here?
Speaker 1: You know when when I think of like tarot card
Speaker 1: reading places, they usually thrive and like really poor areas,
Speaker 1: just in my experience of traveling the country. And sure enough,
Speaker 1: ten years later, this place is still there. And it
Speaker 1: just raises a flag to me, I like, what what
Speaker 1: has to be going on there? I have no idea
Speaker 1: how this business has survived in an area where people
Speaker 1: are very wealthy, Like I don't see wealthy people generally
Speaker 1: going to get their palm red Like, there's just not
Speaker 1: the norm. Dad, That's a really great observation in and uh,
Speaker 1: I had never made that observation myself until the many
Speaker 1: months that I sat watching massage parlors ording. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to deviate from the answer, the specific answer a
Speaker 1: little bit first by saying that, yeah, so what we've
Speaker 1: got got a massage part in a plaza, right, So
Speaker 1: there's a number of other businesses there. There's there's not
Speaker 1: another massage parlor there, Oh no, that won't happen. But
Speaker 1: there's one there, and there's a number of the other
Speaker 1: businesses are just closed. But that's that's just a matter
Speaker 1: of the economy over the years. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: you see a lot more boarded up buildings than you
Speaker 1: used to see. Um. But what I was seeing there
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I can't stare at this door anymore.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the massage part of the door. I go,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stare at the barbershop. In this case, it
Speaker 1: was a barbershop. I'm gonna stare at the barbershop door
Speaker 1: a little bit. And then on the other side of it, like, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stare at this you know, tire UM service,
Speaker 1: flat tire service, UM beyond this and flawders and and
Speaker 1: what occurred to me is like the barbershop didn't do
Speaker 1: enough business, nearly enough business in the in a single
Speaker 1: day to cover its overhead, not even touch it overhead,
Speaker 1: Like he cut two people's hair in an the tired
Speaker 1: you know, eight nine hour day. So that and that
Speaker 1: made me think what is up with that? And even
Speaker 1: the tire services, like, yeah, there's guys milling around there,
Speaker 1: but no one's really doing anything. And then a car
Speaker 1: would show up and yeah, they like swap out a
Speaker 1: tire on it. But but again I'm thinking, nothing in
Speaker 1: this plausa seems to be legit. No one seems to
Speaker 1: be doing real work. And even right next door to
Speaker 1: the massage parlor was a smoke shop, um, which or
Speaker 1: a hookah shop, which you know, I have no respect
Speaker 1: for those places. But I had a brother, retired swat
Speaker 1: guy said hey, man, it easier to go in there
Speaker 1: because I can't go in there because I don't have
Speaker 1: any tattoos I have. I used to tattoo and I
Speaker 1: sanded him off because of delta. And but he has sleeves,
Speaker 1: the retired swak. He looks as street as anybody out there. Um.
Speaker 1: But I said, go in the tattoo shop and talk
Speaker 1: tattoos and find out if there's a connection. I mean
Speaker 1: literally a physical connection passed through between these two shops.
Speaker 1: There's a door, there's an arch, you know, we're one
Speaker 1: can walk into the other. And he went in. He goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: there there is, Like I thought, so man, you know
Speaker 1: that who can shop is another place that absolutely nobody
Speaker 1: went into, or one person went in. You know, what
Speaker 1: did they come out into the end, what did they buy?
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't they didn't get it. They uh
Speaker 1: so they're washing money through these places. I have to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to say, And I would say the same
Speaker 1: thing on a on a different scale, um Ian with
Speaker 1: regards to your neighborhoods um I mean, while I'm still
Speaker 1: amazed at how cuckoo, I think some really wealthy people
Speaker 1: can be, you know, regarding superstition and crystal balls and
Speaker 1: tarot cards and he leaves in the bottom of the cup.
Speaker 1: You know, they can they can pay an awful lot
Speaker 1: of money real quick, you know, in a one time
Speaker 1: sit down. So I don't know, I don't know just
Speaker 1: how much revenue a place like that could be getting.
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, I'm thinking they could probably make their
Speaker 1: overhead with just a couple of people. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, I really believe that their sustainability just isn't there. Therefore,
Speaker 1: I mean, I put them in the same category as
Speaker 1: the barbershop and the entire changing service is there like
Speaker 1: a connection because the reason I would make that connection,
Speaker 1: And my mom has said the same thing. My mom
Speaker 1: is a real estate agent. She's like, I have no
Speaker 1: idea how this place stays open. And then you also
Speaker 1: think like a tarot card place, palm reading and all
Speaker 1: that primarily women. So I'm just wondering, is there a
Speaker 1: human trafficking connection that you've seen with like those types
Speaker 1: of places? Not at all ian, But I'm saying that
Speaker 1: that's I have not at all seen that. That's not
Speaker 1: saying but I've ever I've never even looked forward or
Speaker 1: been tasked by it for it. But um, I I've
Speaker 1: only noted one fortune telling place, and I don't even
Speaker 1: remember what they called themselves. But at least I know
Speaker 1: what street it's on, and it might be another avenue
Speaker 1: to look at, and I might look really cool bringing
Speaker 1: that up next week. And I'm sure, I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: some sort of tax evasion at a minimum. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the tax you know another thing that we tried. Um,
Speaker 1: Like I, I have a resource, Jack knows this. I
Speaker 1: have a resource where I'm able to look up a
Speaker 1: lot of information. And in the case of one massage
Speaker 1: party that I was looking at really hard for a
Speaker 1: bunch of different reasons. Um, I looked at this this
Speaker 1: woman of the owner, and I found that she was
Speaker 1: the owner operator of that of the massage parlor. And
Speaker 1: I can see how much the rent was on the building.
Speaker 1: And I could also see that she had a professional
Speaker 1: license as a missus or missus and loan behold, her
Speaker 1: license was expired like two years ago. So I went
Speaker 1: back to the LEO, said, hey, got an angle, got
Speaker 1: a woman operating in there with expired license, and um,
Speaker 1: what that resulted in was her getting her license back
Speaker 1: up to date. And the only reason I looked at
Speaker 1: her license was because the vice guys, I mean, they
Speaker 1: were going into massage parlors routinely, um, you know, trying
Speaker 1: all these different angles to get him closed down, and
Speaker 1: they were finding that, as required by law that all
Speaker 1: of each massuis has to have a license that is
Speaker 1: posted you know, enter her workplace. And so while they're
Speaker 1: in there, you know, um developing their massage routine, they're
Speaker 1: scanning the room and they're just checking the dates and
Speaker 1: authenticity of these licenses. If they're not in compliance, then
Speaker 1: they can take that girl in and they can shut
Speaker 1: the business down. But once again, just like with building codes, um,
Speaker 1: what we found out is instead of fleeing, they were
Speaker 1: just bringing themself up to compliance and you know, causing us,
Speaker 1: causing us to run out of idea more out of ideas,
Speaker 1: you know. But hey, ideas are bottomless pit as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned. You know, there's always gonna be there's
Speaker 1: always gonna be something else to try against them. UM,
Speaker 1: just like to me that you know, the law, the
Speaker 1: gray area of the laws is probably the thickest part
Speaker 1: of the law. And um, if I look at a
Speaker 1: problem that is contrary to the law, I just gotta
Speaker 1: stare at it long enough and figure out a way
Speaker 1: to you know, bend and twist and stay legal about
Speaker 1: the things I need to do to get these cases fault.
Speaker 1: It's incredible work you guys are doing. George. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Jack, and I get that so much.
Speaker 1: Every time I get a kudo like that, which is
Speaker 1: almost every day, it makes me want to, you know,
Speaker 1: jump in my car and like go do something. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't be said, even though what I do acquires
Speaker 1: desk work, you know, I just like, I gotta go
Speaker 1: out and arrest some get somebody arrested. Man, I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta cracky case. I gotta do something. You guys
Speaker 1: are you know, a fairly small group of people, but
Speaker 1: you're having such an outsized you know, proportion wise impact
Speaker 1: I think on the community you're working in. I think,
Speaker 1: I really think so, I really do. And we we
Speaker 1: ran our second training course in February February um into
Speaker 1: January beginning February or something like that. We ran that
Speaker 1: course training up more you know, law enforcement officers and
Speaker 1: detectives who are assigned to human trafficking in their precincts
Speaker 1: trained up another batch of those guys. I mean the
Speaker 1: first batch was Houston, uh, mainly Houston guys. Those guys
Speaker 1: like knocked the back out of HT in their city.
Speaker 1: They were they were racking him up so quick that
Speaker 1: the d A was asking him totally chill out a
Speaker 1: little bit. They couldn't prosecute the guys in US and
Speaker 1: guys are like going out in the morning, you know.
Speaker 1: And I went back in the middle of the afternoon
Speaker 1: with like this toad that's awesome, Like, hey, this guy's
Speaker 1: and got a warr on this guy he's you know,
Speaker 1: we need to get a grand jury date. And my gosh,
Speaker 1: are are fed uh POC that comes weekly to meet
Speaker 1: with us. We we've lucked out with getting like probably
Speaker 1: the most motivated, gung ho fed guy in uh in
Speaker 1: hs I and he's got more. He's got like more
Speaker 1: grand jury cases stacked up just with him than anybody
Speaker 1: in the entire state, you know, just cases that are
Speaker 1: waiting to be tried. And he was like holds of
Speaker 1: an informal record for that, and he's all about it.
Speaker 1: He's he does it every day, he's he's ready to
Speaker 1: continue to do it. And yesterday's meet with all those
Speaker 1: different guys, there were so many of them there. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was too h put together some operations, some some buying,
Speaker 1: did some joint operations that we're going to do um
Speaker 1: to round up some more traffickers in the near future.
Speaker 1: It was just basically the reading of an off order. Um,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get together next week doing a warning order
Speaker 1: and do some basic train up classes, and then at
Speaker 1: a later date, not too much later than that, we're
Speaker 1: going to come together and execute for a couple of days.
Speaker 1: I think it's important people here these stories from George
Speaker 1: and here this episode, because when we hear about these
Speaker 1: places and the human trafficking stuff, obviously people are frequenting
Speaker 1: these types of places. And I would have to believe
Speaker 1: there's probably someone listening who does and they probably think,
Speaker 1: what's the harm in it. Yeah, victimless crime or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then when they hear George and here that you
Speaker 1: know you're very likely not supporting someone who's doing this
Speaker 1: out of free will, and that you are supporting human trafficking.
Speaker 1: I think it's important that you're aware of reality. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't have any problem personally with you know, an
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial minded woman that uses back page. I mean that's
Speaker 1: our business, you know. But this is this is like,
Speaker 1: you know, akin to slavery. I mean, that's really what
Speaker 1: it is. It's not you know, it's something that it's
Speaker 1: not a victimless crime by any means, the victimless trying it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it sure isn't. People don't realize how short
Speaker 1: of amount of time being exposed to this ship can
Speaker 1: run a kid um And yeah, and I'm with you
Speaker 1: Jack regarding to consent part um or the free will part.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can look at as it's such a
Speaker 1: short amount of time and go now, now leave her alone.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's she's upscale, she's been in it for
Speaker 1: a while, she's independent. Um, look at that, she's going
Speaker 1: to do out calls. She's got her own car, And
Speaker 1: they're like why why won't she show her face like
Speaker 1: maybe she's a maybe she's a freaking state senator. I
Speaker 1: don't know just the thing she likes to do and
Speaker 1: didn't really want the state known about it. I mean
Speaker 1: it's just but but but yeah, I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: I used to study the have to study the pictures.
Speaker 1: Now I just like look at them and maybe it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of it's intuition, but some
Speaker 1: of my eyes just come to a screeching halt on
Speaker 1: that page, and I asked myself, why am I looking at?
Speaker 1: Why am I looking at her page? And then I
Speaker 1: you know, go through and make make myself realize what
Speaker 1: the indicators are. And I've got like eighteen of them
Speaker 1: that I look for. But with that, I also have
Speaker 1: negative indicators. And you can say a negative cancels a positive.
Speaker 1: I mean you can do that little math quiz because
Speaker 1: I mean, at a point you have to ask yourself, well,
Speaker 1: of at indicators, how many does somebody have to have
Speaker 1: today for me to write her up and start developing
Speaker 1: a case to pass onto the LEO. Is it six?
Speaker 1: Is it seventeen? You know? A positive indicator? Check this
Speaker 1: out and I put this on our our page, Jack
Speaker 1: was an iPhone. Like, if she's taken selfies of herself
Speaker 1: with an iPhone, that's a that's a that's a negative
Speaker 1: indicator because the simple fact that a trafficker is not
Speaker 1: going to let his victim own an iPhone, I say,
Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars, he ain't gonna let her half tot
Speaker 1: He's not going to spend that much on her. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's running several girls in the same the same hotel,
Speaker 1: and they're sharing clothes, for Christ's sake, the sharing lingerie, lingerie,
Speaker 1: and all three of these women are wearing the same
Speaker 1: damn thing. They're sharing it. You know, that's they're probably
Speaker 1: staying in the same room. I theorized that he could
Speaker 1: have three or four whatever number in one room, and
Speaker 1: that's like their logistics support room, and they're sleeping on
Speaker 1: the floor in two or three of the bed and
Speaker 1: when they whoever gets a john, they go next door
Speaker 1: or down the hall to the workroom and that's where
Speaker 1: they have the date. Then they get the money and
Speaker 1: they come back to the support room and pay pay them,
Speaker 1: you know, gives hand over the money. Yes, they're obviously
Speaker 1: obviously not going to have like luxury items or high
Speaker 1: dollar items like an iPhone. Are there are their own
Speaker 1: car as you mentioned, you know previously, Yeah, they're not
Speaker 1: going to have a car. Um the big bust we
Speaker 1: made last year, we found out I kept saying, I
Speaker 1: kept I kept seeing a couple of different cars, you know,
Speaker 1: and they always had templates on them, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: like this white fort of taurusts. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: where where are they getting these cars? You know, with
Speaker 1: with these tags. In the end, found out that the
Speaker 1: pimp owed them all, he owned them all, and he
Speaker 1: was keeping him at at a at a body shop,
Speaker 1: you know, and parked in the yard with the rest
Speaker 1: of the junkers and just wouldn't notice it. But you know,
Speaker 1: I was able to find finally trace the car to
Speaker 1: its all the way down to his spin number. It said,
Speaker 1: look who owns this car? My god, if it isn't
Speaker 1: the man himself, And we were able to figure out
Speaker 1: where he got it and is his bottom girl or
Speaker 1: his bottom bushes were the ones that we're getting the car,
Speaker 1: like they say, I got this great date lined up.
Speaker 1: Then he would let them use of the car. Otherwise
Speaker 1: he'd be driving him himself and he he would rotate
Speaker 1: a car out like almost with precision once a year. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like in January he noticed it, like, hey,
Speaker 1: so and so his Cadillac's gone. Well we found him
Speaker 1: driving around. I didn't like this uh Lexus suv and
Speaker 1: the license plate is black and looking up that license plates,
Speaker 1: we find out that it registered just a few days
Speaker 1: ago and it expires in one year. Who gets a
Speaker 1: plate that expires in one year. Nobody. Only people that
Speaker 1: are trying to get rid of their cars once a
Speaker 1: year break up a profile. So yeah, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're looking for like unnatural behavior.
Speaker 1: Like there was a few years ago, maybe it was
Speaker 1: five or six years ago, there's a spy ring that
Speaker 1: the CIA was running in Beirut and it got busted
Speaker 1: by the bad guys. It came out because what was
Speaker 1: going on was that their their informants, their assets, were
Speaker 1: given cell phones and they would go out and they
Speaker 1: would use that cell phone to only call one other number.
Speaker 1: And it would be like, you know, those three am calls,
Speaker 1: and that's a totally unnatural way to use a cell phone.
Speaker 1: Nobody had one cell phone that only calls one number.
Speaker 1: So the story at least the story that the only
Speaker 1: thing I could think of is if you're maybe you're
Speaker 1: like an elderly person or that's about it, right, right,
Speaker 1: So the story that came out was that, um, I
Speaker 1: think it was has blah. They were using some version
Speaker 1: of like analysts notebook, like some sort of analytical program
Speaker 1: to like look at the cell phone traffic, and they're
Speaker 1: very quickly figured out who who was up to no
Speaker 1: good from their point of view. Um, so that's why
Speaker 1: unnatural behavior, and that's what George is talking about looking
Speaker 1: at those license plates, like who gets a license plate
Speaker 1: that expires in one year? Like that's not a natural
Speaker 1: thing to do. So, you know, something's quite right, not
Speaker 1: at all in the you know, initially, we do see
Speaker 1: guys that are pretty they're they're pretty good man. They're
Speaker 1: even driving SDRs surveillance detection routes. I mean they're all
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of stupid looking and screwed up, but
Speaker 1: at least they're doing them, or they think they're doing them.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is they're they're tipping us off that
Speaker 1: there the guys are driving an SDR. I'm like, wow, okay,
Speaker 1: if I wasn't sure, now I'm sure, this guy's scared.
Speaker 1: He's taken steps by driving his SDR, which is a
Speaker 1: really retarded one, but he's doing it. And mobility is uh,
Speaker 1: is a huge deterrent for law enforcement. Like if the
Speaker 1: guys pick up and move steadily like every few days,
Speaker 1: he gets really difficult, exponentially difficult to pick up, relocate
Speaker 1: and and reset up on um you know of motel
Speaker 1: for example. And and I found out, I mean, watching
Speaker 1: this guy for nineteen months, like he was moving every week,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, he's moving, but you know after a while,
Speaker 1: like I know the four motels he uses, like it,
Speaker 1: it will take me, if might take me twenty minutes
Speaker 1: to find his girls again now that they're gone. And
Speaker 1: sure enough I find him. And I also found that
Speaker 1: in the end, I mean, their creatures have had it
Speaker 1: and they they get lazy. Even it's hard to pretend.
Speaker 1: It's hard to pretend like something's uh, somebody's trying to
Speaker 1: break in and get your stuff. When you're on guard duty,
Speaker 1: right jack here on guard map, and you're like, nobody
Speaker 1: cares about this compound, nobody wants in here at three
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. This is just stupid, And so
Speaker 1: you just kind of get lazy. These guys do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, they get tired of having to move their
Speaker 1: operations across town, relocate, reinvent, and they get sloppy. Next thing,
Speaker 1: I know, we've got a girl that's like staying in
Speaker 1: the same room for fourteen days straight, and um, I
Speaker 1: mean you know I can we can contact her and say, hey, baby,
Speaker 1: about a date. And first we have to understand first, um,
Speaker 1: that we're not talking to her. That's not going to happen.
Speaker 1: You're talking to this pimp. You know. So if you
Speaker 1: want to say, hey, baby, you look really hot, go
Speaker 1: ahead and we'll get back. Thanks. Bro. You know, I'll say, hey,
Speaker 1: trying to coax a different photo out of them. I
Speaker 1: don't think you're for real, and so they'll snap a
Speaker 1: picture of the phone. Now I've got all kinds of
Speaker 1: stuff in the background to steady, and what typically what
Speaker 1: I see is a whole shipload of fast food, because
Speaker 1: they're the ones that are kept in their motels, you know,
Speaker 1: with no vehicle transportation serviced by a bottom girl or
Speaker 1: a pimp. All they bring him is McDonald's. You know,
Speaker 1: there's like six cups and that tips me off to
Speaker 1: six big, big old cups like the largest sodas that
Speaker 1: McDonald's cells and they're like on the counter, you know,
Speaker 1: in the background, it's like is that girl drinking big sodas?
Speaker 1: Or are there is she in in like the logistics
Speaker 1: support room having lunch trying to get dates. So these
Speaker 1: are the kind of detail else that only somebody who
Speaker 1: works in this field would understand. Boy, we tear aparts
Speaker 1: of and I even posted one soft fren to the
Speaker 1: to the writers asking for assistance, like, hey, where do
Speaker 1: you think this picture was taken? And I had all
Speaker 1: kinds of input, you know, and it was pretty cool
Speaker 1: because you know, I didn't need a bunch of experts.
Speaker 1: I just need some smart people to look at things,
Speaker 1: you know, and tell me what they were seeing that
Speaker 1: was different than what I was seeing. Because after a
Speaker 1: while you staring at the same thing, it's like you
Speaker 1: got to do something like turn around and look at
Speaker 1: it in a mirror or something, but just get a
Speaker 1: different perspective. And that that crew did help me out
Speaker 1: quite a bit that day. Yeah, it's good to air
Speaker 1: man um that people are helping out once again. You
Speaker 1: could follow George on Twitter at George E Hand The
Speaker 1: Fourth George E. Hand. I v people love your articles
Speaker 1: on software episode, keep looking at those um And before
Speaker 1: we wrapped this up, I should mention that George is
Speaker 1: like a huge listener of the show and not just
Speaker 1: a favorite. And I know that you were a very
Speaker 1: big fan of the Mike Vining interview, which I think
Speaker 1: everybody was, because he was just that was unbelievad I had.
Speaker 1: I had no idea, That's all I can say. I
Speaker 1: had no idea. Everything I ever heard of that guy
Speaker 1: was like involved in it. That's in some aspect, but
Speaker 1: he's so humble that you'd never know. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we had him on to tell his
Speaker 1: story because we didn't even acknowledge it during the interview.
Speaker 1: But he's been reduced to a meme and and that
Speaker 1: is kind of what sucked a lot of people into listening.
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, it's the guy from the meme, And
Speaker 1: then they listened and we're thinking, holy sh it, this
Speaker 1: guy has seen some very intense things between you know
Speaker 1: the bomb, you know, the bomb threat which took the
Speaker 1: life of his teammate at that Bob Dole rally, and
Speaker 1: just everything else. I mean, what story And I can't
Speaker 1: wait to have him back on the man himself is
Speaker 1: so much more interesting, uh and fascinating than any silly
Speaker 1: meme on the internet. Um. Yeah, and you know, as
Speaker 1: George knows, I mean, Mike Vining is you know, just
Speaker 1: top notch guy. Yeah. I wouldn't have picked him as
Speaker 1: one that would have done an interview. That's that's I mean.
Speaker 1: I was giddy and oh it is as quickly as
Speaker 1: I can with regard to his story about you know,
Speaker 1: that his aircraft catching on fire and everybody bailing out.
Speaker 1: Is that one of the guys he had fallen asleep
Speaker 1: before the fire started. When the fire woke him up,
Speaker 1: he saw everybody jumping out the you know, the pack
Speaker 1: store on the starboard side of the aircraft. He said,
Speaker 1: he was noted to. He dove out and landed flat
Speaker 1: on his belly, where everybody else, you know, jumped out
Speaker 1: and ran away. But he'd like he had got flat
Speaker 1: and stable and landed right on his belly. And they
Speaker 1: asked him why he had done that, and he said,
Speaker 1: when I woke up, I thought we were already in
Speaker 1: flight and people were do an emergency bailout. And they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you knew you didn't have a parachute. What were
Speaker 1: you going to do? And he said, hey, man, I
Speaker 1: just solved one problem at a time. Thank god, beautiful man,
Speaker 1: I get it, you know, just solved one problem. Solve
Speaker 1: the media problem. Worry about the next one later. Well.
Speaker 1: I feel like one of these days, the next time
Speaker 1: that we have you on, George, which will hopefully be
Speaker 1: sooner than than last time, we have to have George
Speaker 1: talk about his stories from Delta Force, because we haven't
Speaker 1: gotten that. We'll see, well, we'll see what we can
Speaker 1: do to twist George's arm a little bit. I know
Speaker 1: he doesn't like to talk too much about it either,
Speaker 1: but but no, we would love to hear a little
Speaker 1: bit of your your background too at some point, George.
Speaker 1: That would be fine. Man. I never get tired of
Speaker 1: talking about what a great guy I am. No, but yeah, maybe, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can do it to change the form a bit,
Speaker 1: and we'll see what we come up with, Matt cool
Speaker 1: hopefully maybe next month. I mean we have some openings
Speaker 1: next month, so and people up hearing from you, and
Speaker 1: which will hopefully also be Mike Mining Part two next month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get that wind up. Only crap, Okay, Man,
Speaker 1: it's been thoroughly enjoyable. Um, I just can't wait for
Speaker 1: the feedback for my boss to see if I said
Speaker 1: things I shouldn't have said. Oh, I hope not. Hey,
Speaker 1: if there's anything you need me to add it out,
Speaker 1: just let me know. Chuck. Oh, thanks you guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for taking some time for us today. George really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thanks you, jacking In. I'm a huge fan.
Speaker 1: Thanks man about you. You've been listening to self Rep Radio.
Speaker 1: New episodes up every Wednesday Friday for all of the
Speaker 1: great content from our veteran journalists. Join us and become
Speaker 1: a team room member today at soft rep dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at soft Rep Radio,
Speaker 1: and be sure to also check out the Power of
Speaker 1: Thought podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal
Speaker 1: Sniper instructor Brandon Webb M