Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Ian Scotto here. Hopefully you're all gearing up
Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving. Um, I know I am, because I'm not
Speaker 1: currently in New York as you're hearing this. I'm actually
Speaker 1: I'm recording this prior in New York. But by the
Speaker 1: time this goes up, I'll be in Pittsburgh celebrating Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: with my grandma who lives there, and my uncle and
Speaker 1: my parents will be there as well, so it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a great Thanksgiving. I know. Um, I don't get
Speaker 1: to see my grandma often enough, and she's one of
Speaker 1: the most important people, and being the reliable voice on
Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm often stuck in New York, which you know,
Speaker 1: not the worst place to be stuck, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: gotta be here or else. You guys don't get two
Speaker 1: shows every week, so I was trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what am I gonna put up for a while I'm away,
Speaker 1: And luckily we have some really kick ass members only
Speaker 1: episodes that we did back when we were behind the paywall,
Speaker 1: which as many of you know, we got rid of
Speaker 1: um and so now you have access to all those shows.
Speaker 1: And I figured a lot of you didn't get a
Speaker 1: chance to hear when we had on George Hand and
Speaker 1: it was excellent. Show got a great response from those
Speaker 1: who heard it. So this is Delta Operator George Hand.
Speaker 1: He gets really in depth with his work in combating
Speaker 1: human trafficking. Myself and Jack Murphy hosting this one. And
Speaker 1: if you guys like these episodes, you can actually check
Speaker 1: out the full back catalog of episodes now at soft
Speaker 1: rep dot com, slash radio or soft rep Radio dot us.
Speaker 1: A lot of you are asking where to get the
Speaker 1: back episodes. You know, I originally took them off iTunes,
Speaker 1: so they're kind of gone forever on there, but they're
Speaker 1: still up on our website and hopefully it's some incentive
Speaker 1: to join and become a team. Remember when you hear
Speaker 1: from all these great authors that we have on that
Speaker 1: are putting out new articles all the time. Uh So,
Speaker 1: without further ado, this is Delta Operator George Hand getting
Speaker 1: in depth on human trafficking. Check it out a brute Force.
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
Speaker 1: listening to software Radio, Special operations, military news and straight
Speaker 1: talk with the guys in the community, Army Ranger and
Speaker 1: Green Beret Jack Murphy at Lasagna. Don't get any on
Speaker 1: your Marine Scouts sniper Jason del Gandal is just something
Speaker 1: we believe it. I associate that with taste, but I
Speaker 1: like freaking chocolate, chimny. Why is it flavor boring the
Speaker 1: whole libel board level? And now here's your co host
Speaker 1: and producer of this operation, Ian Scott All Shopperate do
Speaker 1: one time on Target Jack Murphian Studio and for the
Speaker 1: first time actually on the podcast. We had him once
Speaker 1: when we filmed it on Serious George Hank. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous because we have like a really solid tool
Speaker 1: of talented people, very interesting people working as writers at
Speaker 1: Soft Prep, but we haven't had all of them on.
Speaker 1: We've actually we've had a lot of them on, but
Speaker 1: a lot of them they haven't been on it, and
Speaker 1: a lot of them become favorites. Ray away and Is
Speaker 1: in particular, people like you gotta get him on. They
Speaker 1: love me the Odissian, people love all of his stories. Um.
Speaker 1: George is a very very interesting person, did a lot
Speaker 1: of interesting things and continues to um and uh this.
Speaker 1: Within the next week, I'm hoping to get contracts from
Speaker 1: Brandon to give out to five people. One of them
Speaker 1: is George. UM. To write their write their memoirs that
Speaker 1: will be publishing through soft Yeah, you know there's George's one,
Speaker 1: Jim West is one, and so it's happening. I didn't
Speaker 1: know this. It's happening. Yeah. Uh. And there's a couple
Speaker 1: others that are unannounced as of yet. Um I know
Speaker 1: who they are, the exciting cool people. Um did interesting
Speaker 1: things in the military. But Jim and George are amongst
Speaker 1: the first generation that will go through the Soft Reap imprint,
Speaker 1: and that's through St. Martin's right, So this is gonna know, No,
Speaker 1: it's a different publicly, It'll be a Soft Reap imprint
Speaker 1: that we control, and the distribution of physical copies to
Speaker 1: bookstores will be through a major brand publisher. So it
Speaker 1: will be If I want to pick up Jim West's memoir,
Speaker 1: It'll be at Barnes and Noble. Sorry, yes, I'm touching
Speaker 1: Jack's foot if you don't wonder why I'm saying. So,
Speaker 1: we have this like small desk in front of us.
Speaker 1: It's not a real studio. Have you ever Have you
Speaker 1: ever said it like a Starbucks or something like that
Speaker 1: across from like some girl that kicks you over and
Speaker 1: over over again. But the worse is the movie theater
Speaker 1: and that happens. Yeah, the movie theater is bad too.
Speaker 1: But I mean I've been like trying to work at
Speaker 1: my laptop and I'm sitting across from a girl and
Speaker 1: she'll like kick me in the shins. If she's hot.
Speaker 1: That could lead to some good conversation. But well you're
Speaker 1: not single. But I don't care. I'm like, man, stop stop, yeah,
Speaker 1: um all right, So but George George's Buck Jack's book.
Speaker 1: It'll be available everywhere books are sold. George and Jim,
Speaker 1: they said, Jack, Yeah, the Jack, the Jack Book. You
Speaker 1: might have to wait a while longer for I'm I
Speaker 1: think I'm finally gonna pull the trigger on that, though.
Speaker 1: I was. We were out at the book released party yesterday,
Speaker 1: Chris Parronto's book What the Ranger Way. Um, yeah, huge
Speaker 1: crowd out there. And anyway, I ran into a editor
Speaker 1: for a major book publisher and started talking about it,
Speaker 1: and it kind of like reintroduced the idea of it
Speaker 1: into my mind again. I was like, man, because it's
Speaker 1: like it's something I'm very reluctant to do. Maybe if
Speaker 1: I take I think between like the military and all
Speaker 1: the stuff I've done from for software up. There's some
Speaker 1: good stories in there. There's some drama, there's some romance,
Speaker 1: there's some danger. There's me doing a lot of stupid
Speaker 1: things I probably shouldn't have done, you know. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I think I'm probably gonna take the
Speaker 1: plunge on that, but that's down the line. You don't
Speaker 1: really write a lot of personal stuff. When I look
Speaker 1: back at it, it's kind of funny. UM, the I've
Speaker 1: written hundreds and hundreds of articles. The amount of articles
Speaker 1: about the stuff I did in the military. I think
Speaker 1: there's two I wrote about the the wedding that we
Speaker 1: crashed in Iraq. The first operation that my od A
Speaker 1: participated in was what we crashed a wedding UH, and
Speaker 1: there's a major bad guy on that one. UM. And
Speaker 1: then the other operation I wrote about that I was
Speaker 1: participant in was a joint mission UH that a couple
Speaker 1: me and one other guy on my O d a
Speaker 1: IF Iraqi Swat Team guys. We went out with a
Speaker 1: long range for Conaissance platoon UH conventional Army guys UM
Speaker 1: and did a joint operation out in the desert for
Speaker 1: a week. And I wrote, UH, I think a two
Speaker 1: part story about that, and that was years and years ago.
Speaker 1: I wrote that, Um, great guys that I worked with
Speaker 1: is a is a interesting mission, I guess not a
Speaker 1: lot of action, but um, one of the privates and
Speaker 1: the worst platoon did find a spot a cache of weapons,
Speaker 1: a hundred you know, probably a hundred and fifty weapons
Speaker 1: buried out in the desert and we dug it up
Speaker 1: and blew it up and it was cool. I'll have
Speaker 1: to link to this on the show. This is because
Speaker 1: was didn't you do an article or series called wedding Crashers?
Speaker 1: It was an article called wedding Crashers. Yeah, because every
Speaker 1: wedding crashers. Yeah, I'll like to it on on the
Speaker 1: show for the people listening, which by the way, is
Speaker 1: only members listening. But that's it, man, Like all of
Speaker 1: those like crazy missions with range of battalion and even
Speaker 1: things that happened stateside and training and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I just
Speaker 1: never really talked about. But you've also never, as far
Speaker 1: as I know, you've never written in an article about transitioning.
Speaker 1: You've talked about it on the show a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right now, I talked about it a little bit
Speaker 1: on the show, but never never in major detail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I uh, and then there's a whole like the
Speaker 1: second half of the book could be in part anyway
Speaker 1: because it's my story, but it would also be in
Speaker 1: some ways the soft rep story and how all that
Speaker 1: came about, and uh, in all the twists and turns involved.
Speaker 1: And I was telling Brandon last night, I was like,
Speaker 1: if they ever made a movie about us, it would
Speaker 1: have some similarities to that movie Social Network about Facebook,
Speaker 1: you know, because not not that we've gotten like big well,
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of we did get a lawsuit,
Speaker 1: we did get sued right by someone I won't but
Speaker 1: just why we had to take down certain episodes. I
Speaker 1: won't go into the details of that right now, be
Speaker 1: of the galities. Um, but my my only point there
Speaker 1: is that there there's uh, there's definitely the drama. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's all included. It's all in there. And
Speaker 1: some of those stories are just like stranger than fiction.
Speaker 1: I guess the only well, the big difference and what
Speaker 1: that movie is based around is you guys didn't steal
Speaker 1: the idea for stuff. No, we didn't steal the idea. Um,
Speaker 1: what happened was that we had somebody, a bit player
Speaker 1: you could say, in the company decided after we started
Speaker 1: to become successful that he had a extraordinary influence in
Speaker 1: making the company successful with the inside the team. He
Speaker 1: literally moderated a video interview and that was it. Um.
Speaker 1: But then he decided, after we started becoming successful and
Speaker 1: selling some advertisements and things like this, he decided that
Speaker 1: he was the reason why softwarep was successful and and
Speaker 1: sued us. And uh. And that gentleman apparently has a
Speaker 1: history of suing his former employers as a as a
Speaker 1: form of you know, that's his revenue, that's how he
Speaker 1: makes money. Um. And I've sucked out that. That's about
Speaker 1: as far as I say. There's actually the actually the
Speaker 1: we had to settle out of court, um, because it
Speaker 1: was one of those things it's like, Okay, do we
Speaker 1: spend a million dollars winning this lawsuit or do we
Speaker 1: settle for a substantially lower amount of money. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean so it would have cost us more money
Speaker 1: to win. And like I said, part of that was
Speaker 1: taking down some really great material. That's the one thing
Speaker 1: that sucks. Yeah, I mean, did we convert some of
Speaker 1: that into like audio? I think we're going to yeah
Speaker 1: and take out this guy is individual. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: guess the thing I could say for those who might
Speaker 1: be newer members, The one thing that I think I
Speaker 1: could say is basically, we had some great material with
Speaker 1: Chris Kyle who passed away that we no longer have
Speaker 1: up on the site. But we have rights to Chris
Speaker 1: Kyle's audio as far as I know, and we we're
Speaker 1: gonna do something with it. You should convert it into
Speaker 1: like into an audio file and and put it on
Speaker 1: the podcast. Yeah. Brandon has mentioned that and hopefully we
Speaker 1: will at some point, but we've just been doing these
Speaker 1: live shows, which is uh, which is great, but people
Speaker 1: do love hearing from Chris and knowing that he was
Speaker 1: a part of the Inside the Team Room series the
Speaker 1: first one. Yeah yeah, Um alright, So before we get
Speaker 1: to George Hand, who, by the way, former U. S.
Speaker 1: Army Master Sergeant and first Special Special Forces Operational Detachment
Speaker 1: for Delta Force um s f O D. Yeah, First
Speaker 1: Special Forces Operational Detachment Delta. Yeah, it's like the long,
Speaker 1: the long winded name, but everyone knows it just as
Speaker 1: Delta Force or the unit. Ye. So uh so before
Speaker 1: we get into him, I saw that the latest article
Speaker 1: you put up was meeting General sabbin Am I saying
Speaker 1: it right. Saban an architect of Philippine counterinsurgency. UM. So
Speaker 1: you got to go to General Saban's sixtieth birthday, who's
Speaker 1: a Philippine Marine Corps general. And I was reading it
Speaker 1: this morning and just hearing you casually talk about him
Speaker 1: plotting the death of Ablu Sabayah while you're a drinking
Speaker 1: beer eating pig rose for his sixtieth It's it seems
Speaker 1: like a fun time. It was was. It was a
Speaker 1: it was a hell of a fun experience. It's funny.
Speaker 1: I I got introduced to General Simon Um through a
Speaker 1: mutual friend and uh, and it's you know, I explained
Speaker 1: to him what I was doing in the Philippines, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd love to meet you and interview you
Speaker 1: and talk to you about you know, he's retired now.
Speaker 1: He was the Commandant of the Marine Corps, amongst many
Speaker 1: many other things he did in the Marines, the Philippine
Speaker 1: Marines UM. And uh, you know, because it's his style,
Speaker 1: he's uh, he's like, Okay, you come down and meet me,
Speaker 1: meet me. You can interview me in the field. It's
Speaker 1: like what okay. So the next thing I know, I'm
Speaker 1: on a plane down to Zambuanga in Minda. Now uh
Speaker 1: get off the airplane. I get met by the plane
Speaker 1: closed Marine security detachment guys that Saban is arranged to
Speaker 1: pick me up, and they drive me out to Saban's
Speaker 1: house in the middle of his sixtieth birthday party and
Speaker 1: all of his marine friends are there and his family
Speaker 1: is around him. And this is his you know, private
Speaker 1: residence and uh and he was you know, super cool,
Speaker 1: had me over, you know, sitting down next to him,
Speaker 1: and uh, his his wife. Uh. I was introduced to
Speaker 1: very sweet woman. Uh like maybe the first thing she
Speaker 1: asks me, you drink beer, right kind of like yes, ma'am,
Speaker 1: yes I do. And so we're sitting there drinking San
Speaker 1: sand meg beer in Zamblanga and he's telling, you know,
Speaker 1: we're telling all kinds of war stories and things like that.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting next to people who planned Operation Ultimatum,
Speaker 1: which was an amphibious landing that the Marines did again
Speaker 1: to go target a boost if like stuff I had
Speaker 1: read about in the past. And and these are the
Speaker 1: people they're sitting there with me. I'm sitting across from
Speaker 1: the guy who put the tracking bug and Abu Zabaya's
Speaker 1: boat um when they targeted him. He was the boost
Speaker 1: I F spokesman UM during the early years of you
Speaker 1: know what we are, American War on Terror, so like
Speaker 1: two thousand two, two thousand three. Um Saban was one
Speaker 1: of the He is one of the architects of the
Speaker 1: counterinsurgency strategy in the Philippines. He was one of the
Speaker 1: people who realized that we can't just go in guns blazing. Uh.
Speaker 1: We can't win this conflict through arms alone. That we
Speaker 1: have to actually provide services and provide security for the
Speaker 1: Philippine people uh and win them over so that they
Speaker 1: come to the government side. Uh. And it makes the
Speaker 1: insurgency less appealing. UM. So Saban uh, you know he is. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's an interesting cat. He talks about how humans are
Speaker 1: the center of gravity and uh and counterinsurgency strategy and
Speaker 1: winning the hearts and minds. And I think he's very
Speaker 1: serious and very sincere about that. But there's two sides
Speaker 1: of it, right, uh, because I think General Saban can
Speaker 1: also bring the hammer as well. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: he he brings the heat to a boost YEF and
Speaker 1: is some of these other groups as well. Uh. And
Speaker 1: he has such an interesting story too as a young man,
Speaker 1: as a young officer, he was he participated in the
Speaker 1: nine Coup in the Philippines, and he was a member
Speaker 1: of what is called y OU the Young Officers Union,
Speaker 1: which were the you know, disenfranchised Philippine military officers who
Speaker 1: who were reformers, um rightly or wrongly though, they were
Speaker 1: disenfranchised with the government, and they participated in uh. The
Speaker 1: nine Coup was you know, got fairly ugly. Some of
Speaker 1: them were bloodless. This one was kind of nasty. Um.
Speaker 1: So General Saban was senced to prison. I spent some
Speaker 1: time in jail and received a pardon and after that
Speaker 1: he was almost as a punishment, he was exiled to
Speaker 1: the southern Philippines where the insurgencies were. And it turned
Speaker 1: out to be uh a good fit, you know, General Saban,
Speaker 1: I think he thrived in that environment. Um. But I uh,
Speaker 1: the article that we're talking about was just that first
Speaker 1: night where I first, yea, you you leave a bit
Speaker 1: of a quite fanger for the next morning where you
Speaker 1: have to get up after indulging in some alcohol. Yeah,
Speaker 1: five five in the morning and get on a plane
Speaker 1: to Tawi Tawi, which is the southernmost island in the
Speaker 1: Philippines before Malaysia. UM and uh and we went down
Speaker 1: there for the activation ceremony of second Marine Brigade which
Speaker 1: is stationed on that island. Uh so again with all
Speaker 1: of General Saban's friends, active and retired Marine Corps veterans.
Speaker 1: UM and uh. I also interviewed General Saban and his
Speaker 1: friends on tape for you know, an hour and a half,
Speaker 1: two hours about a lot of different subjects. So there's
Speaker 1: um quite a bit more to talk about and quite
Speaker 1: a bit more to write. One of the main things,
Speaker 1: uh is the Aboost sabayah Um how he was killed
Speaker 1: uh and how that all came about. That's one interesting story.
Speaker 1: And then also one of the things I want to
Speaker 1: write about is the Camp Medina raid which was done
Speaker 1: by Force Rican and General Saban he was in the
Speaker 1: background of that as a as a staff officer at
Speaker 1: the time and it was the first real big raid
Speaker 1: against a boost if so it has a kind of
Speaker 1: historical aspect to it. I think it was nine two
Speaker 1: that that raid happened, So I'll go pick through all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm looking very forward to the continued articles on it. Um,
Speaker 1: we gotta get to George though. The one thing I
Speaker 1: was going to mention in connection with that though, is
Speaker 1: that just recently, in the past few days, the President
Speaker 1: of the Philippines, Rodrigo to Arrte, required martial law and
Speaker 1: he's looking to expand that. So there's a lot happening
Speaker 1: in the Philippines right now. Then you'll probably be covering. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an article I wrote today that should be out,
Speaker 1: if not today, tomorrow about everything happening in morrow We
Speaker 1: and um. And really it kind of goes to what
Speaker 1: we talked about on the last podcast about ISIS being
Speaker 1: a brand, a sort of plug and play brand, and
Speaker 1: that these these uh bandits in morrow We are really
Speaker 1: you know, they're just criminals. Are They're all local terrorist group.
Speaker 1: It's not transnational terrorism, it's not ISIS. And we shouldn't
Speaker 1: give these groups the credibility or the legitimacy of saying
Speaker 1: that they're part of some transnational terrorist network or some
Speaker 1: sort of caliphate that's spreading across the world. That's not
Speaker 1: what it is at all, um, and we shouldn't recognize
Speaker 1: them like that. Sure, Um, I have some other great
Speaker 1: stuff to get to but we'll get to it after
Speaker 1: George hand because he's he's all set to go. Let's
Speaker 1: give him a call, Let's bring him on. So joining
Speaker 1: us for the first time. As I said on the podcast,
Speaker 1: very few people listening probably remember, but when we filled
Speaker 1: in on Serious X and we brought on George, that's
Speaker 1: the only time we had him on air. And we've
Speaker 1: been remiss in not having him on the podcast a
Speaker 1: lot sooner. Yeah, and there's been plenty of tweets sent
Speaker 1: to him of when are you going on the podcast?
Speaker 1: And George is like, whenever I'm invited on, I'll come on.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to invite everybody on. So George is
Speaker 1: a former U. S. Army Master Sergeant and first Special
Speaker 1: Forces Operational Detachment for out to Force. He's an expert
Speaker 1: on counter human trafficking work. And I guess the first
Speaker 1: thing we could start off with is when I was
Speaker 1: messaging you this morning talking about what we can get into,
Speaker 1: you let me know that you just did some work
Speaker 1: with a human traffic human Traffic Task Force and just
Speaker 1: made the biggest bus this past week for human trafficking
Speaker 1: in Albuquerque history. So that's pretty huge. Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a pretty exciting thing. And I
Speaker 1: think I posted on software one of the pictures that
Speaker 1: my understudy caught captured of me, and I turned it
Speaker 1: into a mean and I think I put it on
Speaker 1: a software Yeah, and I really was, you know, I
Speaker 1: just I just, I mean, we're in the backyard for
Speaker 1: the first time, and I just plopped down in this
Speaker 1: launch area and was just kind of grinning. And I
Speaker 1: knew I was, but I didn't expect someone to be
Speaker 1: taking a picture of me. But I probably grinned for
Speaker 1: about five minute straight. It was just it was that
Speaker 1: satisfying to to let's find let us think in that
Speaker 1: they had all three of these people that we went
Speaker 1: after that morning, and uh, there's a fourth one that's
Speaker 1: still at large. But oddly enough, he actually showed up
Speaker 1: to court to watch the kingpin go through an arrangement
Speaker 1: and uh, and I'm like, why why didn't they why
Speaker 1: didn't they grab him? And the explanation is very ambiguous.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Uh, the paperwork might not be in order,
Speaker 1: but um, the kingpin made a full confession, just point blank,
Speaker 1: and so there's not even going to be a trial.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's already They basically already sentenced this guy.
Speaker 1: He's going to get he's gonna get forty years just
Speaker 1: for the human trafficking piece. But he is involved in
Speaker 1: two murders. Um. The third person they picked him up,
Speaker 1: he was right here in Albuquerque again, all that we
Speaker 1: come from Fort Benning. He's rumored to be the trigger man.
Speaker 1: But this kingpin, uh, Cornelia Cornelius Galloway, he's the guy
Speaker 1: that ordered the executions of this young woman and her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Why why were they executed? Say jack? Uh? She and
Speaker 1: her name is Toby Stanfield. And I'm saying these names
Speaker 1: because they're already showing pictures on the news. Some of
Speaker 1: the pictures are my pictures, you know, that I put
Speaker 1: together in reports and sent to the LEO. They never
Speaker 1: really said anything about the about the reports, but obviously
Speaker 1: they're they're liking them because they're pulling stuff out and
Speaker 1: using it. She Um, she got mixed up for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: she got mixed up in prostitution. Then she got mixed
Speaker 1: up with them in their prostitution ring. And before you
Speaker 1: know it, uh, you know, she's being held against your
Speaker 1: will and treated just miserably. They kept her in a
Speaker 1: kennel at one of the famous motels in town. They
Speaker 1: kept hring a kennel. They kept another girl. Two other
Speaker 1: women kept him in kennel's. It would whip the crap
Speaker 1: out of him with electric chords, and you know, just mistreatment, torture,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And they were selling them, you know, pimped
Speaker 1: him out into the cases. The women are underage, um
Speaker 1: and this okay. So the two younger women they got out,
Speaker 1: they escaped. Essentially, the leo got hold of him. We
Speaker 1: put him in a motel for and watched him for
Speaker 1: several days, just guarded him until he found a place
Speaker 1: out of state, like a halfway house or a recovery place.
Speaker 1: We drove one to Houston, Texas, and she's doing well.
Speaker 1: We drove the second one to Phoenix, Arizona, and she's
Speaker 1: also doing well. But now that there's not going to
Speaker 1: be a trial, and I mean the point was we
Speaker 1: wanted to hold those so they could come back to testify.
Speaker 1: Since there's not going to be a trial, they're really
Speaker 1: they're on their own. They're free to come back. And
Speaker 1: of course the third girl, the one that was killed,
Speaker 1: she walked out on Galloway, you know, just stepped out
Speaker 1: and escaped on her own. I just did not want
Speaker 1: to work for him, and she was freelancing. Her and
Speaker 1: her boyfriend were freelancing, and she was still, you know, prostituting,
Speaker 1: So that was contrary to his business. That was competition.
Speaker 1: He put together a scheme involving his wife and his
Speaker 1: right hand man. They lured her to an apartment and
Speaker 1: they capt her in the head. They took her out
Speaker 1: to a park, and I remember seeing this in the news.
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I think it was around February January,
Speaker 1: February time frame. I remember seeing it in the news.
Speaker 1: It was like, Wow, he found a dead body a woman.
Speaker 1: That sucks. Hey, it wasn't in my neighborhood. That's that's
Speaker 1: that's fantastic, you know. But now we've moved all the
Speaker 1: way across town and it's it's a park that's very
Speaker 1: near our house now. But yeah, it's distinctly heard about that.
Speaker 1: And I distinctly heard about them finding a body in
Speaker 1: the Motel six offinished State, and that was the boyfriend
Speaker 1: who had also been shot in the head. They were
Speaker 1: both murdered because they interfered with the business plan and
Speaker 1: they bucked his system, Yes, exactly. Yeah, you know, try
Speaker 1: to freelance out there. I mean there's at a certain
Speaker 1: level independence just don't go over Well, they've got to
Speaker 1: be assumed by they're gonna be sucked into somebody's network
Speaker 1: or they're just they're just not gonna work. You be affiliated, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to. Yeah, you have to have an affiliation otherwise,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean that's that's at a pretty uh
Speaker 1: poor street level. Uh when you look up to the
Speaker 1: more the higher paid Paul girls, you know that just
Speaker 1: basically jet set around the United States and stay in
Speaker 1: hotels near the airports, you know, they that's a bit
Speaker 1: different story, like yeah, they can actually be independent and
Speaker 1: keep all their money. But when it's down in the
Speaker 1: street level, uh there there, there's there's no having it.
Speaker 1: And they typically work out of the worst motels, you know,
Speaker 1: on the drag strip. And when things aren't going well,
Speaker 1: like on back page, if they're just not getting any
Speaker 1: hits on back page, we we see him walking out
Speaker 1: on the strip on Central and we know that you know,
Speaker 1: well things are going well on back Page because there
Speaker 1: she is walking well. Congratulations George on uh on, you know,
Speaker 1: being a part of this big bust. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: great work. And I was wondering if we could just
Speaker 1: backtrack a little bit and uh, because I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you about, you know, your experiences in the unit.
Speaker 1: Now I know you were a wreckie guy, um, and
Speaker 1: talk about how some of those skills transferred over into
Speaker 1: your work and counter human trafficking, or or if they
Speaker 1: didn't transfer. Um, but you know, get a little bit
Speaker 1: into uh, I guess, a little bit into the weeds
Speaker 1: about how all that panned out for you. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: it's uh. I mean the boss, Nick McKinley, he knew
Speaker 1: that he wanted people. He wanted spec ops guys, and
Speaker 1: he wanted he wanted guys that were mature. He didn't
Speaker 1: want young guys fresh out of the unit that are
Speaker 1: ready to you know, trigger happy three to kick down
Speaker 1: doors and all this stuff. He wanted guys. I actually
Speaker 1: explained it to him before he accepted my definition. I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, Nick, I've kind of had all the excitement
Speaker 1: I want to have, so I'm not interested in going
Speaker 1: out and you know, like fist fighting some pimp. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, when I go to take my kids to
Speaker 1: the Disneyland, I I go on the merry go around
Speaker 1: with him. I I buck I buckle up that that
Speaker 1: leather belt, that sleep and I hang on. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not the cool guy standing there, you know, with
Speaker 1: his legs crossed leaning against the horse. Yeah. But and
Speaker 1: he's really he's really pleased to hear that. Um but
Speaker 1: he that's he knew he wanted guys like like like you, Jack,
Speaker 1: like me, and he's and that's still really the only
Speaker 1: people he's interested in, just because of the skill set,
Speaker 1: I mean, the wrecky skill set being out in the
Speaker 1: field or urban And you know, if I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of operations in urban environments, m most I would
Speaker 1: say most of my the vast majority of my wrecky
Speaker 1: experience took place in the Balkans and specifically in Bosnia.
Speaker 1: So I did in fact, I did zero rural recky.
Speaker 1: Everything was urban and um, you know, we we did
Speaker 1: everything from putting a guy in the back of delivery
Speaker 1: truck that had some blacked out windows to sit in
Speaker 1: there and and physically operate a camera, you know, to
Speaker 1: to film certain people that we're looking for. So that's
Speaker 1: a mando p uh. And then we had anything that
Speaker 1: you could imagine or that you could create in terms
Speaker 1: of a remote um uh camera mounted in a car
Speaker 1: in different configurations that you know, cars that we would
Speaker 1: just park somewhere, have a way to kind of site
Speaker 1: them in on the field of view that we wanted
Speaker 1: to capture, and then leave the car for twenty four
Speaker 1: hours and they would be videoing let's say the front
Speaker 1: door of a motel or the front door of a
Speaker 1: house and for four hours. Yeah, we'd go pick that
Speaker 1: up and then just watch the film. And George, just
Speaker 1: just to interrupt real quick, just for the listeners who
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know what you're talking about, especially the millennials
Speaker 1: out there who are like, what in the world is
Speaker 1: George talking about? In the nineties, we were sending guys
Speaker 1: to Bosnia looking for Bosnian war criminals. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's what we're what we're you're talking about here, isn't it, George? Yes,
Speaker 1: it is wish person who die in for war crimes.
Speaker 1: So you know you were you were involved in all
Speaker 1: that with a unit. Uh. And then how did how
Speaker 1: did these skills come in handy um working counter human
Speaker 1: trafficking in the United States? Well, um, it serves me
Speaker 1: and that I know how to uh, for one thing.
Speaker 1: I know how to deck out my truck and turn
Speaker 1: it into a hid site, a mobile hide site, and um,
Speaker 1: I've got we found it oddly enough. You know, you
Speaker 1: go to home depot and you go look at some
Speaker 1: weed barrier. It's that barrier you put down on the
Speaker 1: dirt before you put rocks and garden, and it keeps
Speaker 1: the weeds from growing up underneath. Well, that stuff is
Speaker 1: poorous material. You know, it'll let it lets water through,
Speaker 1: but it won't let a plant through. If you're hang
Speaker 1: that over your windows in certain configurations, you can still
Speaker 1: see out pretty well, but persons on the outside there
Speaker 1: there's not likely to be able to see insight and
Speaker 1: see a silhouette of a person set in there. So
Speaker 1: I've in my vehicle, I mean I've I've got my
Speaker 1: truck decked out permanently. I drive around with my height
Speaker 1: sight up. Um, and I have curtains that I can
Speaker 1: deploy in just less than a second, you know, just
Speaker 1: give a tug and they fall down. I have one
Speaker 1: that falls down covers the complete dash. I feel like
Speaker 1: you should be a great software article, just like inside
Speaker 1: George's vehicle. Yeah, I actually have a set of pictures
Speaker 1: that I started to do that article. I think it
Speaker 1: was Nick Kaufman was had written something about surveillance. It
Speaker 1: was a good article about surveillance, and I thought about
Speaker 1: throwing my two cents worth because I do a lot
Speaker 1: of countersurveillance surveillance SDRs. I mean, each time I go
Speaker 1: after uh A target, I gotta do an SDR on
Speaker 1: the way out there, and I gotta do an SDR
Speaker 1: on the way back. And an SDR is a surveillance
Speaker 1: detection route or a burn run. It's designed to I mean,
Speaker 1: we would kind of skip the we go right into
Speaker 1: the provocative and aggressive maneuvers. In other words, we do
Speaker 1: some really aggressive turns that if somebody were to follow you,
Speaker 1: we're trying to follow you, if they were to do
Speaker 1: that same turn, it would completely compromise the fact that
Speaker 1: they're trying to follow you. And if they did not
Speaker 1: want you to know that they were following you, then
Speaker 1: they have to skip that turn and now they've lost you.
Speaker 1: So and I that's all stuff that I, you know,
Speaker 1: went over again and again in training to get into
Speaker 1: the unit, and I had to go through it all
Speaker 1: over again when I went into the bad Von Squadron
Speaker 1: or the Advanced Force Operations squadron Um just I have.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of it under my belt, and
Speaker 1: it just it feels second nature to me to do
Speaker 1: it a lot of them. Tube. I'm sorry, go ahead, George,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the I mean, I my a
Speaker 1: height sight in my try is it's in. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's in. Like it's second revision right now, the first one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, sitting in there for hundreds of hours, just
Speaker 1: you know, it's sometimes you just sit there and stare
Speaker 1: at your nets and think, you know, this could be
Speaker 1: a whole lot better, and I should do this, and
Speaker 1: I should do that. So I actually revamped it just
Speaker 1: just one week ago, and there there's so much more
Speaker 1: efficient and I I can ride with these nets all
Speaker 1: the way down, but I'll only do it in on
Speaker 1: US residential streets. If I'm going out onto a boulevard,
Speaker 1: you know, or an avenue, then I pull those nets
Speaker 1: up because it's just it's just not safe. But I
Speaker 1: can creep around on residential streets with all my nets down.
Speaker 1: And in some cases, I mean, if you're looking from
Speaker 1: the side, you're looking through five barriers, you're looking through
Speaker 1: two tinted windows. Two black nets and then a third
Speaker 1: black net in the middle. I mean it is dark
Speaker 1: in there. You I can turn on my I can
Speaker 1: turn on my uh cabin light because I've got a
Speaker 1: red filter over it. I can turn that on and um,
Speaker 1: you can't see it from the outside. So you've got
Speaker 1: a pretty good surveillance operation going. And would you say
Speaker 1: that's the bulk of your work is trying to keep
Speaker 1: tabs on it. Because another thing that I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting here is, you know, the difference between working in
Speaker 1: a military capacity in uh, in an environment overseas and
Speaker 1: now you're working kind of augmenting law enforcement, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: domestically here in the United States. Um, well, what do
Speaker 1: you think that the difference in the dynamics are. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how to answered that. Jack. Um,
Speaker 1: I know that the pucker factor was definitely higher, excuse
Speaker 1: me overseas. And I mean I don't feel I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't I rarely ever feel endangered when I'm doing
Speaker 1: these operations here in the city. This last ones, I mean,
Speaker 1: these these guys are you know, they are known murderers,
Speaker 1: so we knew they were shooters, and uh, um it
Speaker 1: did affect it did affect the way we did to
Speaker 1: our business a little bit. When we're always carrying I
Speaker 1: was carrying, um. But we were really help bent on
Speaker 1: getting a beacon on this guy's car because we didn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, we'd already set up on him for like
Speaker 1: four days, watching his residents, and it was getting harder
Speaker 1: to sit set up in that neighborhood. When I got
Speaker 1: kicked out of a parking spot at least one time
Speaker 1: by a guy that said I was parked in his
Speaker 1: girlfriend's parking spot. I'm like, okay, sir, I'm gonna move,
Speaker 1: you know, And I had to move, and I go, well,
Speaker 1: if I have to move a couple of times, we're
Speaker 1: probably not going to be able to set up in
Speaker 1: this neighborhood anymore. Um. So we really wanted to beak
Speaker 1: in it so we didn't have to set up and
Speaker 1: watch him anymore. Just watch his beacon moved through town,
Speaker 1: and if it stops, the closest guy to him can
Speaker 1: go ahead and drive on out there and see where
Speaker 1: he stopped and why, and then who's with him and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, um, and how the dynamics carry over.
Speaker 1: Like I said that there, there's really not that much
Speaker 1: of the pucker factor. I can do much more stuff
Speaker 1: by myself than I would dare have done overseas by
Speaker 1: myself permissive environment. Fact, I never did anything by myself
Speaker 1: because it's just you don't do it. You don't cross
Speaker 1: the zone of separation into bad guy territory by yourself. Um.
Speaker 1: And that that that's what brought up that article about
Speaker 1: Bob Horrigan and I did. We did that swim under
Speaker 1: the bridge to try to recover surveillance camera. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you can get away with a lot more in a
Speaker 1: permissive environment like the United States, and in every case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: can you talk a lot at all about how this
Speaker 1: case came to fruition? I mean, how you kind of
Speaker 1: got it to the point where the police were able
Speaker 1: to make an arrest and you were able to were
Speaker 1: you able to get that beacon on the car? Um? Interesting?
Speaker 1: Interesting enough? Now this car was a BMW and uh,
Speaker 1: my understudy was Matt Finney. He's he was going to
Speaker 1: be the guy to beacon that that BMW was at
Speaker 1: the end of a long, dark driveway, very narrow and uh. Um,
Speaker 1: I was kind of nervous. Uh, I couldn't tell Matt
Speaker 1: to go beacon that car, and it was it was
Speaker 1: a hairy experience, like I couldn't tell him to do it,
Speaker 1: but he had the beacon, and I was trying to
Speaker 1: think of ways to get the beacon back from him
Speaker 1: so that I could do it. But there was no
Speaker 1: graceful way to do that. I mean, if I asked
Speaker 1: her the beacon, he knows why. But I didn't think
Speaker 1: he was going to do it. And he did it.
Speaker 1: He walked down at well, this guy, you gotta figure
Speaker 1: he's a professional boxer and an m M A fighter
Speaker 1: and that's all well and good, but these guys are shooters,
Speaker 1: so I was still really worried if they should suddenly
Speaker 1: come out and catch them, you know what if they're
Speaker 1: carrying a piece. Well Matt did it, and he got
Speaker 1: up under that car to the rear and he slapped
Speaker 1: that beacon clumped, and it didn't stick. It's magnetic, so
Speaker 1: he hit it four or five more times, you know,
Speaker 1: clump clump, clump, clump, clump, and then he even worked
Speaker 1: his way around to the side of the car and
Speaker 1: again you know, it reached its far under clump clump, clump, clump.
Speaker 1: He came walking back out immediately. I'm like what he goes,
Speaker 1: you won't believe this ship. It wouldn't stick to anything.
Speaker 1: And um, I said, I've never runned that before. That's incredible.
Speaker 1: And we did our We did our homework that night,
Speaker 1: and we came come to find out that the vice
Speaker 1: guys ran to the same problem. They tried to magnetically
Speaker 1: tag it and they, um, they couldn't get it a stick.
Speaker 1: They went to a garage and found the same car.
Speaker 1: It was already up on Jack's and they looked at it.
Speaker 1: Basically that car, the entire underside of it is covered
Speaker 1: in aluminium and plastic splash guards and skits. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Matt found from the internet research and some experts
Speaker 1: that he knows that there's about a there's like a
Speaker 1: about an eight by eight inch metal plate that's like
Speaker 1: dead dead center on the long access of the car,
Speaker 1: right about in the middle. So he's practicing reaching, you know,
Speaker 1: because he's gonna go back and do it again. And um,
Speaker 1: we did go back the next night, and uh, there
Speaker 1: was a whole bunch of cars there, Cadillacs, more BMW's,
Speaker 1: they were just jammed in there. And I said, wow,
Speaker 1: something's up. And this was like two days before the hit,
Speaker 1: and I told the LEO, I said, hey, if if
Speaker 1: if I were to throw some advice your way, I
Speaker 1: would say move your hit twenty four hours up, because
Speaker 1: you know there's something's going on. There's there's a reason
Speaker 1: for that meeting, and maybe he got wind that something
Speaker 1: was gonna happen and they're gonna bug out. But so
Speaker 1: we couldn't. We knew we were going to do it
Speaker 1: that night. We just we We got up at three
Speaker 1: in the morning, came back out and there was a
Speaker 1: gate thrown completely across the driveway. It was a tall gate,
Speaker 1: then it was a low gate, so you weren't going
Speaker 1: to go under it. You could get over it, but
Speaker 1: you were going to make a lot of racket. So
Speaker 1: we again we didn't get the beacon on it. Um.
Speaker 1: So in the day of the hit, you know, we
Speaker 1: asked to say, we want to be a place. We
Speaker 1: want to be in a place where we can see
Speaker 1: some action but not interfere and if you don't tell
Speaker 1: us a place, then we're gonna find our own place.
Speaker 1: And um so they gave us a spot where they
Speaker 1: were gonna, uh, they were going to physically take out
Speaker 1: the drug the car if it left the apartment and
Speaker 1: it was an intersection. So we sat up on that
Speaker 1: intersection for about four hours straight and I saw a
Speaker 1: police helicopter hover come to a hover over the residence
Speaker 1: about a mile down the road, and I said, Matt,
Speaker 1: you know the ships on let's and we just raced
Speaker 1: for We raced for the residents and there was already
Speaker 1: a degree cordon around that block and there was about
Speaker 1: thirty five cops. The SWAT were spread out all over
Speaker 1: the street. Took a look in that. We tried to
Speaker 1: go down the back alley. There was a big alarmored
Speaker 1: car park there where it had run down that alley.
Speaker 1: Just crashed the back gate open, wreck his fence and
Speaker 1: then just froze down you know, the black side or
Speaker 1: the backside of the guy's place. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I was impressed with that. I said, that's what you
Speaker 1: do it you freeze down three sixty degrees and make
Speaker 1: sure no squarters get out and run away. And that
Speaker 1: that case. Basically, I mean, we were working on all
Speaker 1: kinds of cases. We still are. Um the next big
Speaker 1: one I think is probably gonna happen the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. I've been watching I found this network like
Speaker 1: last April and had been watching these these people ever since.
Speaker 1: But the cops just, uh, they got to lead. They
Speaker 1: did some interviews, they put together, you know, a quick
Speaker 1: page of notes and slapped it on us and said, hey,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be big. Can you guys help us out?
Speaker 1: And we just took it and did our usual products,
Speaker 1: made our network association diagrams, did all sorts of oos
Speaker 1: and Diggs, got a ton of information personal information from
Speaker 1: our research, uh, and turned over some really good products
Speaker 1: to them, and uh, right away they asked us if
Speaker 1: we could help out with you know, working on the
Speaker 1: street with them, and we said, well, that's yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why we're here. So I remember you talking a little
Speaker 1: about some frustration in the past that not, you know,
Speaker 1: not as many arrests were being made as you would
Speaker 1: have liked. I was wondering if maybe it sounds like,
Speaker 1: is this the result of months and you know, years
Speaker 1: of surveillance, um, kind of finally coming to a head. Uh,
Speaker 1: and maybe some of those products are starting to pay
Speaker 1: off now over a longer time period. Yeah, Jack, that's
Speaker 1: you're you're you're all over it. Um, you know, coming
Speaker 1: into the this this task force, I recognized right away
Speaker 1: that the most difficult piece about it was going to
Speaker 1: be the law enforcement integration piece. Another word. You know,
Speaker 1: we we I boast that we can you can do
Speaker 1: all this busy work. We can do a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that cops can't do by law, a whole lot
Speaker 1: of things that they can't do, they're just not allowed
Speaker 1: to do. We can do them. We can hand them
Speaker 1: a product that is actionable and if they you know,
Speaker 1: they will agree that, yeah, this is uh, we can
Speaker 1: do a warrant on this one. So what we're handing
Speaker 1: him a packed parachute and all I have to do
Speaker 1: is jump. That's the way I describe it. And and
Speaker 1: it was really long and painful process to try to
Speaker 1: get the to integrate with the LEO because the one
Speaker 1: thing we don't have is arrest authority and they do.
Speaker 1: So I knew it was gonna take a long time.
Speaker 1: Nick really, you know, he really understood how long it
Speaker 1: was going to take to get the law enforcement on
Speaker 1: our side and to get their trust. And what we're
Speaker 1: seeing now is, yeah, we're seeing their trust. That relationship
Speaker 1: filled a little bit. Yeah. And when we first started out,
Speaker 1: they had a vice squad of just two guys, undercover guys,
Speaker 1: former Marines, and they disbanded that vice within weeks they
Speaker 1: were gone. So now we're operating, you know, with with nobody,
Speaker 1: no special agents, not from the Metro Police Department. Well,
Speaker 1: over time, they saw that, they saw the they were
Speaker 1: recognizing that there's some there's some good work being done
Speaker 1: here and that they need the advice back. So they
Speaker 1: reassembled it and plused it up even and those guys
Speaker 1: are real go getters. You know, when we hand him
Speaker 1: product that same day, you know, they're already they're already
Speaker 1: making some kind of getting some kind of results out
Speaker 1: of it. It's just real hard hitters, motivated. And we've
Speaker 1: got two special agents from the Attorney General's Office that
Speaker 1: are smoking good, another two agents from Homeland Security. That's
Speaker 1: one of our best guys. In my opinion, this this
Speaker 1: this guy really um, he's he really goes after some cases.
Speaker 1: And I'm counting on him to go after this next
Speaker 1: big case, this next network that I'm I'm looking at.
Speaker 1: We're pulling out the number one and number two networks
Speaker 1: from the city. That's what we're doing. If we get
Speaker 1: both of these that's one and two, then then they'll
Speaker 1: be avoid and that will get filled up and then
Speaker 1: we'll get them too. Then beyond that, we're just like
Speaker 1: chasing one's and twosies. You know one guy that's pimping
Speaker 1: one girl, but that's okay, Well we'll go after them too.
Speaker 1: And add a little bit of context. UM, could you
Speaker 1: tell us about the deliver Fund and exactly how it
Speaker 1: works in this organization that you work for. I'll I'll
Speaker 1: do my best, UM, short of just spouting out the
Speaker 1: mission statement that uh, if you understand what o CENT is,
Speaker 1: and I know you guys do, but for the audience,
Speaker 1: it means open source intelligence. And that means it's there's
Speaker 1: all kinds of information out there that you can get
Speaker 1: that legally on people, places and things. UM, I can
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of information on one individual using
Speaker 1: all of the open source intelligence research techniques and tools
Speaker 1: that I have at my disposal. UM, We've got we
Speaker 1: we have we're partnered with IBM, and we use one
Speaker 1: of the nation's most powerful networking projects or projects for
Speaker 1: building a network. It's called Analysts Notebook or I too,
Speaker 1: and we have um other UM tools that are these
Speaker 1: aren't available to the consumer there you know, they're just
Speaker 1: not you just can't go out there and download them
Speaker 1: and use them or even buy them for that matter.
Speaker 1: Some of these which is developed just for federal agents
Speaker 1: for for example, others for only law enforcement, like traffic
Speaker 1: jam is for law enforcement only. But we have accounts,
Speaker 1: deliver funds responsible for steering that project UM in a
Speaker 1: big way to the way it operates today. I've put
Speaker 1: in my own recommendations and sometimes same day I see
Speaker 1: changes in the in the program, you know, just based
Speaker 1: on my input. So we go out there and using
Speaker 1: this legal means to collect open source intelligence we put together,
Speaker 1: we do a lot of the busy work, uh and
Speaker 1: a lot of the work that the law enforcement guys
Speaker 1: don't have time or resources to do, and we get
Speaker 1: that done for them and pass it off to them
Speaker 1: and they make the arrest and it includes I mean
Speaker 1: we will we For example, Nick Nick McKinley gave every
Speaker 1: one of our LEO contacts from all of our different
Speaker 1: office he gave them a MacBook Pro brand new because
Speaker 1: they didn't have laptops in their office. Gave you know,
Speaker 1: laptop computers, state of the art laptop computers loaded with
Speaker 1: the programs and the tools that we use for open
Speaker 1: source gathering. So now since they're not funded for it,
Speaker 1: and well now they have it, they're able to use it.
Speaker 1: Um there there are sustaining operations going on right now
Speaker 1: in town at a certain motel that deliver Fund paid
Speaker 1: for the rooms. You know, we said, have any rooms
Speaker 1: need we need? We need five, So I got a
Speaker 1: trusted agent. I'll send her out and say, get five rooms.
Speaker 1: You know, use your credit card. That way, it's not
Speaker 1: attributable to any of us or our names or our
Speaker 1: credit cards. And I'll wire you know, money into your
Speaker 1: bank account to cover you, plus some extra for doing
Speaker 1: this workforce. So we'll get the rooms. She'll give me
Speaker 1: the receipts, I'll claim those, and if the LEO needs,
Speaker 1: if they need phones, like they actually did need the
Speaker 1: two burner phones, we've got them phones and they're using
Speaker 1: them right now. And we got them a internet backup
Speaker 1: source because they're they're having sketchy coverage at this particular location.
Speaker 1: And and in to include I'm not kidding, just cash.
Speaker 1: Here's two hundred dollars of incidental cash. Because those guys
Speaker 1: will go out, they'll need stuff, they'll pay for it
Speaker 1: out of their own pocket, you know, or they'll they'll
Speaker 1: try to they'll try to get it from the department,
Speaker 1: and well, it takes like three weeks to get fifty
Speaker 1: dollars from the department and paperwork. So here, don't spend
Speaker 1: your money, here's cash. It's shocking sometimes how little resources. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, police departments have allocated for human trafficking, counter
Speaker 1: human trafficking investigations, and you know, it's not really the
Speaker 1: fault of the departments. Necessarily, a lot of the police officers,
Speaker 1: you know, they're down in the in the mud, and
Speaker 1: they understand that there's an issue and that it needs
Speaker 1: more resources. Um. But I remember talking to one police
Speaker 1: officer assigned to UM crackdown on distribution of child pornography,
Speaker 1: and it was like him and one other guy in
Speaker 1: an office UM for a huge area, and just the
Speaker 1: volume of crap that this guy was dealing with on
Speaker 1: a day to day basis was incredible, way more than
Speaker 1: two people could ever process. Um. You know, I mean,
Speaker 1: he was telling me about one of the hits they got.
Speaker 1: One of the guys who was trafficking and child pornography
Speaker 1: turned out to be a police officer in the department.
Speaker 1: And uh, and when they searched the guy's phone. His
Speaker 1: girlfriend's little daughter was on the That's really unfortunate. That's
Speaker 1: it's It doesn't surprise me, but it's unfortunate. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not a callous monster. Uh yeah, that sucks. That's a
Speaker 1: new one for me. UM, I completely I admit that
Speaker 1: I UM was was unaware of just how overworked the
Speaker 1: special agents are. UM. You know, in here in Albuquerque,
Speaker 1: we don't deal with Metro they're too hard to deal
Speaker 1: with and they're not interested where we only deal with
Speaker 1: the special agents that are specifically UM interested in in
Speaker 1: counter human traffic. So and I'm I'm amazed at how
Speaker 1: overworked they are and how under resource they are. And
Speaker 1: I can say that because I can compare them to
Speaker 1: the same organization in Houston, Texas. Those guys have got
Speaker 1: a small army and are very well resourced to go
Speaker 1: after human traffic. The thing they didn't know is they
Speaker 1: didn't have I didn't have a really good understanding of
Speaker 1: how to go about it. And so they we brought
Speaker 1: him over in March and we gave him a ten
Speaker 1: day class, you know, ten day, NonStop, no weekend off,
Speaker 1: just ten days, eight hours a day. In the mornings,
Speaker 1: we did all classroom work, showed them how to we know,
Speaker 1: gave him computers first of all, gave him all the
Speaker 1: all the resources, the accounts, the tools, showed them how
Speaker 1: to use them for ten days and we had we
Speaker 1: actually our exercises were, you know, go to your hometown
Speaker 1: of the hometown's back page and based on these criterias,
Speaker 1: do your searches find people that you suspect are belong
Speaker 1: to human trafficking networks. And I taught him some techniques
Speaker 1: that I developed for finding your your victim, the one
Speaker 1: that's being trafficked, finding her in town and hopefully getting
Speaker 1: a good a facial idea, and I d photo of
Speaker 1: her through that. Yeah, the girl that's on this page
Speaker 1: is the girl that responds when you call this phone number.
Speaker 1: But here she is responding to a residence that's completely phony.
Speaker 1: And I call that an out called jilt. And there's
Speaker 1: an in called jilt as well. And we talked, we
Speaker 1: taught the police that and uh, the word is back
Speaker 1: in Houston is that you're not cool unless you're doing
Speaker 1: an out called jilts or or saying the word out
Speaker 1: called jill. You know, they're and they're bringing in people
Speaker 1: so fast that the prosecuting attorneys are like, you know,
Speaker 1: giving them the time out sign like hang on, hang on,
Speaker 1: hang on, you know basically, I mean basically they're starting
Speaker 1: cold in the morning. They're showing up a close of
Speaker 1: business with a guy, what a trafficker? What if any
Speaker 1: changes have taken place in this arena, um since the
Speaker 1: some of the dust stops with back Page. Uh. You
Speaker 1: know that's it's interesting because you know, back Page is
Speaker 1: a huge, huge front for human trafficking. Some of the
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers I talked to that they have no
Speaker 1: qualms about saying, no, back Page is bad. You know,
Speaker 1: they're doing bad things there. Um. But at the other hand,
Speaker 1: it also gave them a vehicle, uh, to track human traffickers,
Speaker 1: to identify victims the way you were saying, so it
Speaker 1: was kind of a double ledged sword. And I was wondering,
Speaker 1: since they believe they've been cracking down on back Page, uh,
Speaker 1: and even I think the CEO may have been indicted, um,
Speaker 1: if you could speak to if there had been any changes,
Speaker 1: if any um. When it comes to that, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: completely know what you mean by that double edged sword
Speaker 1: because I experienced to myself, because I I didn't have
Speaker 1: it as well thought out, as I thought out well
Speaker 1: ahead like Nick did. But I mean, we were largely
Speaker 1: responsible for getting back pages escort channel closed. So when
Speaker 1: they slammed the escort channel closed, I immediately went, holy crapt,
Speaker 1: that's great it how do I find him now? And
Speaker 1: that's where all the leo we're doing well. They're like, man,
Speaker 1: you just you just just closed off our source for
Speaker 1: finding these guys. And given one day. Two days later
Speaker 1: we realized that those guys everyone that was posting on
Speaker 1: escort channels, they just regrouped and now they're posting on
Speaker 1: women seeking men and others and other websites. There are
Speaker 1: a couple of webs sites, there are a couple of
Speaker 1: servers out there, Jack that that the owners of back
Speaker 1: Page had. They they set them up knowing that their
Speaker 1: escorts channel was going to get shut down and then
Speaker 1: probably some more of their adult channels would get shut down.
Speaker 1: Um one of them is in one of them is
Speaker 1: in the Netherlands, and the other is wherever it is.
Speaker 1: Um Uh. The names the name kind of escapes me
Speaker 1: at the moment. It's something like posted fast, something to
Speaker 1: that effect. And it's just if you post everything you
Speaker 1: posted that most fast server shows up on back Page. Interesting,
Speaker 1: so yeah, and so it's business as usual and on
Speaker 1: the ways, oh, it is completely business as usual. And
Speaker 1: other the other adults websites, well, the traffic Champs, for example,
Speaker 1: I mentioned that it scrapes back Page at one time exclusively.
Speaker 1: Well now they're um, the creator of that program thought
Speaker 1: it out well ahead as well, and they're scraping as
Speaker 1: Media's nineteen of the top social media for adult posting.
Speaker 1: They're scraping nineteen different sites. So we're still we're still
Speaker 1: picking up our I know we're I call it my
Speaker 1: girls because are the ones that I've been looking at
Speaker 1: since April that are involved in this ring. I know
Speaker 1: where they're at all the time. Um, I know which
Speaker 1: hotels they're at, you know. Uh, but there, I see
Speaker 1: how they pop up on different websites from time to time,
Speaker 1: and we can figure out how to find very quickly
Speaker 1: if they change. Um. But or it's interesting because when
Speaker 1: when Nick was first discovered that that mirror site or
Speaker 1: that but I'm not sure what I want to call it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he contacted me late one night said George, go to
Speaker 1: this website and put internet and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: So I put in you know, I paid five dollars
Speaker 1: or whatever put in an ad and sure enough it
Speaker 1: popped up on Backpage. And see he's he's got a
Speaker 1: guy that works overseas that he um that all he
Speaker 1: does is Backpage that's all he does. And this guy
Speaker 1: he won't tell me what his name is. I don't
Speaker 1: care what his name is. But he's the one that
Speaker 1: found these uh, these these passed through servers that Backpage
Speaker 1: has been setting up. Um, there's I mean there, they're
Speaker 1: all being subpoenaed the Backpage. I saw a notice yesterday
Speaker 1: that Backpage International got slam shut. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you saw that. No, I didn't. They posted it on
Speaker 1: a on the software. But yeah, that that actually came
Speaker 1: from the creator of traffic Jam that tool, Emily Kennedy.
Speaker 1: She send us all the note saying the back Page
Speaker 1: International slam shut. So there you know days coming. Um,
Speaker 1: I just look forward to the day they get the
Speaker 1: CEO physically get him and to control him and get
Speaker 1: him in court because as you know, he's uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's he's been asked to testify and he just never
Speaker 1: shows up. I think they actually, I'm not aware of
Speaker 1: the current status of the case. But I remember reading
Speaker 1: the charges when they dropped or not when the charges
Speaker 1: were dropped, but when they when they came out, and
Speaker 1: I think they actually they were charging the CEO for
Speaker 1: pimping and several other employees of the company. It was
Speaker 1: like it was like that they knowingly we're taking credit
Speaker 1: card transactions knowing that the girls were being pimped out.
Speaker 1: I believe that's no doubt. Yeah, I believe that's the
Speaker 1: crux of the case that was brought against them. Another
Speaker 1: thing on this note, George, that I was wondering if
Speaker 1: you could comment on, because I think there may be
Speaker 1: a lot of misconceptions in people's minds. Um, but we'll
Speaker 1: get your take on it. Is what is the role
Speaker 1: of the dark web, if any in human trafficking the
Speaker 1: dark web is? Um? You know, dark web was a
Speaker 1: mystery to me for the longest time. And then uh,
Speaker 1: I I set out to I just dedicated today. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get on the dark Web. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go see three I'm gonna see three
Speaker 1: different things. I'm gonna look for three different things. I'm
Speaker 1: going to see them. Then I'm going to leave the
Speaker 1: dark Web, and I'm never going to go back to it,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I'm gonna satisfy myself that I
Speaker 1: know that it exists. And so, and of course there's
Speaker 1: the deep Web and there's the dark Web. But the
Speaker 1: dark Web is what I'm talking about. It's it's everything
Speaker 1: on the Internet, which is most everything on the Internet
Speaker 1: that cannot be indexed by a search engine. Therefore it
Speaker 1: can't be found unless you know right where it looked.
Speaker 1: So and that's how that's how child porn and this
Speaker 1: sort of thing is being managed on the dark web.
Speaker 1: Is that you you you're not going to stumble into it.
Speaker 1: You're you're gonna have to know exactly where to go.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to be privy h and deliberately get
Speaker 1: the right information from somebody to go there and get
Speaker 1: what you want. So I got into the dark Web
Speaker 1: basically used a tour and I went in there and
Speaker 1: I saw what I was looking for, and I said, wow,
Speaker 1: it's it's true. And then I backed out and I
Speaker 1: haven't been back since. The U Nick tells me, and
Speaker 1: that's Nick McKinley. He says, you know the dark Web,
Speaker 1: you you if you if that is something illegal like
Speaker 1: child porn. Even I years on your screen, they can
Speaker 1: come get you. And I thought, well, that sounds that
Speaker 1: sounds like that's a little bit far fetched and sensational,
Speaker 1: like just because something appeared on my screen. But he
Speaker 1: maintained that, Uh, but I can't pooh pooh that, and
Speaker 1: that that does worry me. So I don't want to
Speaker 1: be back in there unless it's for uh, in the
Speaker 1: course of my duties, like it's our official work, like world,
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to go to the dark web now
Speaker 1: because so much has moved to the dark web, is
Speaker 1: now we have to meet him on their terms on
Speaker 1: the dark web. All right, Well, let's go. Let's find
Speaker 1: him then, Matt. Yeah. The reason why I bring this
Speaker 1: up is something that I've been told in the past
Speaker 1: is that, as you mentioned, child pornography is huge on
Speaker 1: the dark Web, but human trafficking not so much. The
Speaker 1: reason being that it's um the human traffickers are engaged
Speaker 1: in a in a commercial enterprise at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, and so they need to attract as any
Speaker 1: customers as possible, and that customer base is on you know,
Speaker 1: the normal web, it's on the on the social media sites.
Speaker 1: It's on the back pages of the world, not on
Speaker 1: the dark web, right, that's that's right, Jack, Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: tracking track. Um. Yeah, they they gotta they gotta get
Speaker 1: to their customer base. Uh. I mean the the this
Speaker 1: this next network that I've been watching for so long.
Speaker 1: Um uh you know, and it's a cat and mouse game.
Speaker 1: They they they get they get a level of sophistication
Speaker 1: just from everyday business, especially when someone's after him. For
Speaker 1: the most part, no one's after him, nobody cares, you know.
Speaker 1: But when we're after him for so long, um, and
Speaker 1: they start realizing it, they start changing up the way
Speaker 1: they do business a little bit. They go so far
Speaker 1: as to do a really awkward burn runs, in other words,
Speaker 1: driving erratically to see if somebody's following them. They're not
Speaker 1: good at it. That they can do it and it's effective,
Speaker 1: but all they're doing is they're tipping their hand that
Speaker 1: they think someone's following them, in my opinion, And and
Speaker 1: they of course, you know, a moving target is hard
Speaker 1: to hit. When they're good, they move a lot like
Speaker 1: they I've noticed they wouldn't stay in the same motel
Speaker 1: for more than about seven days. Then they pick up
Speaker 1: and their easiest hell to find, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: as soon as they start posting again, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: on my burn my burn line, send him a date
Speaker 1: request and get it all the way down to Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the room number? Then I get the room number.
Speaker 1: Now I cut them away. I know what room they're in,
Speaker 1: I know what motel they're in. Um, And I present
Speaker 1: this to the LEO, you know, constantly in the hope
Speaker 1: that they're going to move on this guy. And I
Speaker 1: think they will finally because um, you know, when we
Speaker 1: got a big way, they get a network, a kingpin
Speaker 1: is they The best way to get them is they
Speaker 1: get one of the girls to flip. In other words,
Speaker 1: she just decides that she's going to tell on. That's
Speaker 1: hard to do. It's very it's really hard to do,
Speaker 1: really hard to do. Yeah, But at any rate, we
Speaker 1: got um, one of the first women that we liberated.
Speaker 1: We got her pimp. We you know, rescued her, got
Speaker 1: her pimp. He had crossed the state line. The cops
Speaker 1: continue to follow him. They picked him up. He got
Speaker 1: fifteen years. His name is Shane Roach. So he's and
Speaker 1: his sentence came down just this past October. So he's
Speaker 1: fifteen years in, she's still in town. We tried, we
Speaker 1: try to work with her um as best we can,
Speaker 1: hoping that she can help us. But she's too far.
Speaker 1: Heroine's got hooks in her too far. Is she's not
Speaker 1: reliable and almost worthless. So but um he likes. It's
Speaker 1: tough because a lot of the victims, they don't see
Speaker 1: themselves as victim at the time. No, no, yeah, so
Speaker 1: we but the point of her is that she was
Speaker 1: the only one that flipped, and they prosecuted and they
Speaker 1: convicted the guy. Well we're not. When we got one
Speaker 1: of the women for this next network to flip, we right,
Speaker 1: We ran her up to Montana, dried her out, cleaned her,
Speaker 1: brought her back. She's in all these programs. So she's
Speaker 1: a witness. And the Feds said, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: would be better than one witness to witnesses. And I'm like, wow, man,
Speaker 1: that hoop is getting smaller and smaller that I'm trying
Speaker 1: to jump through here. So and we're and we've tried
Speaker 1: to get these these last two women to flip. One
Speaker 1: of them's got mild. She she's got she has a
Speaker 1: mental condition. She doesn't have she doesn't have the correct
Speaker 1: sense of reality. So she she's not a possibility to
Speaker 1: flip that. This other one, I think she will flip.
Speaker 1: And she sounds pretty tough and talks a tough, tough piece.
Speaker 1: But um, I think got convinced our HSI guys to
Speaker 1: talk to the d A and say, hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: there's been a precedence where we tried and convicted um
Speaker 1: a trafficker with just one witness. Why can't we do
Speaker 1: that in this case? And I think we're winning. I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna take it so that that means within
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks we could have bagged the
Speaker 1: second one. So his the woman that we're trying to flip. Now,
Speaker 1: she's she's a big time heroin and UM, the plan
Speaker 1: these guys, they're just gonna they're gonna grab all the
Speaker 1: women and grab the pimp and they're gonna put her
Speaker 1: on ice for about six hours the scal After about
Speaker 1: six hours, she's gonna, you know, get dope sick, and
Speaker 1: at that point she will sell her soul. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's not a matter of like will you flip, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, when will you flip? Because she's gonna flip
Speaker 1: because of heroin, and um, I mean they're just gonna
Speaker 1: lay it, lay the letter of the law down, say hey,
Speaker 1: you're either you're either cooperating or you're in prison with
Speaker 1: no heroine. So, um, it's a shitty job, man. But
Speaker 1: that's how we get things done and amazing stuff. And
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a whole new world, I think
Speaker 1: for a lot of our listeners, and I mean, frankly
Speaker 1: for a lot of Americans. Um, And I'm grateful that
Speaker 1: law enforcement and that organization's like Deliver Funder of put
Speaker 1: the focus and put the spotlight on this subject. For way,
Speaker 1: way too long, human trafficking was something that was allowed
Speaker 1: to fester. It was allowed to exist, and we didn't
Speaker 1: devote enough time or resources to it. And it seems
Speaker 1: like that's beginning to change. People are becoming more aware
Speaker 1: of the issue. I really think they are. And I
Speaker 1: should point out probably one of the most important things
Speaker 1: about Deliver Fund. You know, Nick McKinley was you know,
Speaker 1: he was an Air Force pair of rescue swimmer. He
Speaker 1: was then he was as CIA did about thirty combat
Speaker 1: tours in Pakistan and surrounding area. But he thought this
Speaker 1: thing out for seven years and he he put together
Speaker 1: the legal basis and the foundation of it years before
Speaker 1: he put any operators and put positions. He's got multiple lawyers,
Speaker 1: he's got I mean, he's got he's got eyes, got
Speaker 1: a tease crossed. He did. He did a really good job.
Speaker 1: This organization is extant in that nobody, no other organization
Speaker 1: in the States is operating the way to deliver funds
Speaker 1: is operating. They're they're involved in it rescue and recovery
Speaker 1: and damage control and mitigation, but they're not actively targeting
Speaker 1: uh network pimps and network kingpins and collecting on them
Speaker 1: and uh getting the law enforcement to actually, you know,
Speaker 1: arrest him. I mean. And the way Nick describes it
Speaker 1: very well, it's like, you know, you keep pulling the
Speaker 1: girls out. Oh, save the girls, Save the girls. You
Speaker 1: pull the girls out. Guess what there's gonna be now
Speaker 1: it's it's shelf space. And a new girl is going
Speaker 1: to pick up that shelf space. And he he described
Speaker 1: it in his own words as uh attempting to shoplift
Speaker 1: Walmart out of business. You're not going to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's true though, But you know, God blessed
Speaker 1: the victims and you know. I mean I wrote about
Speaker 1: the victims, them lost girls. That's one of my strongest
Speaker 1: pieces that I wrote, and uh, you know, so I
Speaker 1: do have a heart for him. But the mission says,
Speaker 1: we got to go after the pimps. We got to
Speaker 1: go after the network guys. You know, we were not
Speaker 1: we're not involved in rescue and m We have done
Speaker 1: it though, I mean all those drives we do to
Speaker 1: other states with the girl in the car, that's that's
Speaker 1: not our business. But no one else is doing it,
Speaker 1: so we have to do it. I think you you
Speaker 1: really put your thumb on it there, George, because I
Speaker 1: think for a long time and even to this day,
Speaker 1: when we talk about human trafficking, it becomes this sort
Speaker 1: of like empathizing, you know, emoting like the poor women,
Speaker 1: the poor girls. And as you say, I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: they're victims and what's happening to them is horrible and
Speaker 1: we should have empathy for them. Um, But I don't
Speaker 1: think that's really in of itself resolves the problem for
Speaker 1: just the reasons you outlined that we put the spotlight
Speaker 1: on the victims and it almost becomes like victim porn
Speaker 1: at a certain point, um, when instead we should be
Speaker 1: putting the spotlight on the victimizers and putting that uh
Speaker 1: you know, putting some daylight on the criminals and saying, look,
Speaker 1: these are the guys who are up to no good.
Speaker 1: These are the guys we need to bring in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's not the fun part, you know,
Speaker 1: the fun sexy part to feel good stuff is save
Speaker 1: the girls, you know, or fly fly to the Philippines
Speaker 1: and save their kids, but we don't have our own kids,
Speaker 1: or go and make up a man. I hate to
Speaker 1: say this, George, but I mean there's a lot of
Speaker 1: these like private intelligence firms, and I see these like
Speaker 1: puff pieces they do are they have somebody else right
Speaker 1: for them? And the media where it's like, you know
Speaker 1: what what you're describing, it's like a rescue mission and
Speaker 1: they're down in Costa Rica or Panama or something like that.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I think I think most of those stories
Speaker 1: are fake. I think they're fabricated public relations stories. I
Speaker 1: think they're absolutely bullshit. If you, if you'll pardon me,
Speaker 1: you can say, well, we can let's fix Let's fix
Speaker 1: ourselves first, man, Let's let's take care of our own kids.
Speaker 1: Then let's go take care of everybody else's kids. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I mean, if I don't know,
Speaker 1: if I don't, I don't want to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: laying stacks of brochures on countertops in motel motel lobbies.
Speaker 1: You know, here's a number to call if you're being Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean. And I think that's another reason why Nick
Speaker 1: likes mature guys, because you know, like we're not out
Speaker 1: there fallen in love with our victims. You know, I've
Speaker 1: I've been in to see a couple of the of
Speaker 1: the victims were whose pimps were trying to put away.
Speaker 1: I've been in to see him saying, hey, you have
Speaker 1: an opportunity here. You know, do you want out of
Speaker 1: this crap? Let's go right now. Not successfully, you know.
Speaker 1: In the case the one female that um that I've
Speaker 1: been watching for the longest time, she has she has autism.
Speaker 1: She's slightly autistic, difficult to talk to, and so her
Speaker 1: sense of reality is not it's not kosher. Uh. In fact,
Speaker 1: the last time we the last time we went to
Speaker 1: see her, we you know, barged did the date thing.
Speaker 1: Barged in the room. She tried to grab her phone
Speaker 1: one of the HSI grabbed it first. We took a look. Um,
Speaker 1: we did a dump on the phone, and you can
Speaker 1: tell the usual John numbers and the usual this that,
Speaker 1: and one of the numbers was named Daddy, and I
Speaker 1: did a dig on that number and founded was registered
Speaker 1: directly to her pimp. But I won't say his name
Speaker 1: because he's not we don't have him yet, So her
Speaker 1: sense of reality is a bit you. She's not one
Speaker 1: that we're going to ever get to flip um. But
Speaker 1: the other, the other girl, Yeah, well I I very
Speaker 1: confident will be able to get her to flip George.
Speaker 1: Have you Uh well, I'm sure at the end of
Speaker 1: the day after because of your job, you probably want
Speaker 1: to go home and watch Disney movies or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I was just curious that, uh, have you seen
Speaker 1: on Netflix there's this series I've been watching called The
Speaker 1: Keepers about a pedophile ring and a Catholic school. Okay
Speaker 1: to Keepers, Okay, yeah, in uh in Baltimore. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've seen it or not. I've been watching it,
Speaker 1: watched a couple of episodes of it, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I think we've all seen some like pretty horrifying things like,
Speaker 1: this is probably one of the worst I've ever even
Speaker 1: though he's probably seen a lot worse than you have
Speaker 1: in this Uh yeah, you know, he certainly has. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's seriously because I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna pick
Speaker 1: up and start watching it this evening. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty horrendous. The pedophile priest was the principle of a
Speaker 1: girl's school and he was also a psychology Just so
Speaker 1: you can imagine the way he was fucking with these kids.
Speaker 1: I mean not not just literally, I mean figuratively, he
Speaker 1: was he was mind fucking Yeah. That actually sounds that
Speaker 1: very that that sounds very realistic to me in a
Speaker 1: lot of the situation situations across the United States. I
Speaker 1: was appalled to see the endless number of college professors
Speaker 1: that have been busted and dieted for the same thing. Dude,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to all of these young people. It's interesting
Speaker 1: you say that because I had a UM I interviewed
Speaker 1: somebody a while back, and uh, and it was about
Speaker 1: a different subject, had nothing to do with what we're
Speaker 1: talking about here today. But he kind of came off
Speaker 1: the cuff and told me some personal things about himself,
Speaker 1: and he told me about how he was walking home
Speaker 1: from school when he was like seven years old, seven
Speaker 1: eight years old. Uh, this would have been in like
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, I suppose. And uh, four four men
Speaker 1: pulled over and they offered to give him a ride home.
Speaker 1: So he got in the car and they drove him
Speaker 1: out to out to some cottage or something and spent
Speaker 1: the entire afternoon having their way with this kid. And
Speaker 1: uh and it turned out all four of them were
Speaker 1: college professors. Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, so this was this
Speaker 1: was funny find out about each other. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, maybe it's it's interesting how they
Speaker 1: figure out each other's like that, and then together it
Speaker 1: turns into it turns into a ring. And uh and
Speaker 1: they all have blackmail material on each other too, so
Speaker 1: it's very it's very uh incestuous rings. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the mafia or something like that, but worse. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, I get a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of readers. They you know, they post in the post
Speaker 1: right forum forum. They're like, tell us, please tell us,
Speaker 1: make us understand where these people are coming from, what
Speaker 1: makes them do this? I'm like, yeah, you know, you
Speaker 1: can you can beat yourself up about it, trying to
Speaker 1: figure it out and hoping that somebody will explain it
Speaker 1: to you one day. But in the end, man, you
Speaker 1: just gotta you've gotta calm down and resign to the
Speaker 1: notion that that you're just glad you don't understand, because
Speaker 1: that means you're not like that, you know, and then
Speaker 1: then you can get some peace. Finally, if you glad
Speaker 1: you don't understand them. I mean, the reality where these
Speaker 1: people come from, as they come from our communities. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a part of our culture. It's it's
Speaker 1: something that exists in our culture, and you know, we
Speaker 1: have to recognize that and then we can take some
Speaker 1: steps to dealing with it the way you have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Jack, the the guy that we just busted, Cornelius Galloway,
Speaker 1: the guy on top. I mean, when the cops grabbed
Speaker 1: him and did their first interview, he said, you know,
Speaker 1: he said, point blank, he was, Hey, my dad was,
Speaker 1: my mom was a horror That's all I know. So
Speaker 1: you got me. Yeah wild. So I was just gonna
Speaker 1: say onto, you know, more of the thing that we
Speaker 1: usually talk about. This is definitely a darker subject than usual.
Speaker 1: Not that this is any less dark, um being that,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned your former Army Master Sergeant, first best
Speaker 1: Special Forces Operational UH Detachment for Delta Force, you do
Speaker 1: more than just human trafficking. So I actually just wanted
Speaker 1: to hear because I mean, it's in the news right now.
Speaker 1: We've talked about at the previous show. Just your thoughts
Speaker 1: and what what went down in Manchester and and how
Speaker 1: do we actually combat this type of thing. I know
Speaker 1: it's a very complicated answer to a pretty complex question,
Speaker 1: but just figured out here your thoughts since I've heard
Speaker 1: Jack's and Chris is as well. Chris Parronto, well, um,
Speaker 1: I hate that you asked me that, but I'm glad
Speaker 1: you didn't ask me something like George sum up the
Speaker 1: problem in Syria that I like I have. I have
Speaker 1: people like Jack and and Alex and all these guys
Speaker 1: that have, uh, you know, a pretty sophisticated understanding of
Speaker 1: the area that have been there. I have guys like
Speaker 1: that that can explain it to me one essay at
Speaker 1: a time. That's fine, Um I can't. I I just
Speaker 1: I just know at face value what happened there. Um,
Speaker 1: And I've got to put a bunch of pages marked
Speaker 1: a bunch of tabs like I gotta go back and
Speaker 1: read this tab. I gotta read this article to try
Speaker 1: to get it better of an understanding of uh, you
Speaker 1: know what happened there, But I think even beyond you
Speaker 1: know the complexities of what happened, we've seen this before.
Speaker 1: You know, we say it's different, but we saw the
Speaker 1: Orlando nightclub shooting. You know, just how do we combat
Speaker 1: And I know that that's a little different because there
Speaker 1: was a little bit bit more of a personal issue there.
Speaker 1: He also that person was not killing young women, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, at just a random concert. He specifically targeted
Speaker 1: the gay community in Florida. But I mean just radical
Speaker 1: Islamic terrorism and these random acts like this is there.
Speaker 1: I got into it with Jack, as I said in
Speaker 1: the last episode, but I just meant, you know, what,
Speaker 1: what can we generally do as a country or as
Speaker 1: western countries to combat this or will we ever stamp
Speaker 1: out this problem? Um. One of the things that that
Speaker 1: caught my attention was a video clip of a woman
Speaker 1: in over in England and she was basically saying, um,
Speaker 1: hey people, this is this is just the way it
Speaker 1: is now that we've got to accept this, and uh,
Speaker 1: I didn't read the comments after that, but but I thought, wow,
Speaker 1: that was the That is the last thing you would
Speaker 1: ever want to say under the circumstances. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we we we have to accept now that
Speaker 1: every couple of days there's going to be a mass
Speaker 1: shooting at Applebee's. Inspiring, but we still gotta go to
Speaker 1: Applebe's because we have to eat. So let's just keep
Speaker 1: our fingers crossed that that that's definitely not the approach.
Speaker 1: And I know the media, well I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know the media, but I'm saying when every time something
Speaker 1: like this happens, there's a there's a mad dash two
Speaker 1: keep the people calm. I understand that to to convince
Speaker 1: the people that it's this guy is not falling. You
Speaker 1: know that this is isolated, This is a lone wolf.
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with ices. You know, this
Speaker 1: is not Islamic terrorism. It's just trying to convince the
Speaker 1: people that, uh, you know that that the sky is
Speaker 1: not fallen. Thought to keep them calm. Otherwise, you know,
Speaker 1: than then that the retaliation comes, then you can end
Speaker 1: up with an excalation of force and you end up
Speaker 1: like freaking dwarty. You know, bringing your country under martial law. Americans,
Speaker 1: they think they are. Yeah, they don't know what marshial
Speaker 1: laws like. They don't know. Oh yeah, I think they do,
Speaker 1: but they don't if they even had a basic understanding
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't want any part of it. Martial law
Speaker 1: is one of those things gets thrown around so much. Man.
Speaker 1: I remember, like even just during this past election, they
Speaker 1: were like, I think Obama is going to suspend the
Speaker 1: election to clare marshal law. I heard it all the time. Um,
Speaker 1: But so to play Devil's advocate with what you were
Speaker 1: saying is we're wrapping up here. What about the people
Speaker 1: who would say, statistically, you're way more likely to be
Speaker 1: killed by a drunk driver than an is lam and terrorists.
Speaker 1: I mean, which is true. And I'm not saying you know,
Speaker 1: what do we do when you throw our hands up
Speaker 1: in the air. It goes back to what you were saying.
Speaker 1: But yeah, um, I I am not doing anything different
Speaker 1: since I moved to Albuquerque. No matter what the news,
Speaker 1: no matter what comes out in the news, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing anything different. I'll tell you that. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I my heart goes out to Israel, but you know
Speaker 1: they walk around with all kinds of plans and with
Speaker 1: weapons strung across their back, um, and a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of plans for when when ship goes south. But it
Speaker 1: is impossible to keep your guard up day after day,
Speaker 1: all day long. I mean even on a short stint
Speaker 1: like guard mount for a couple of hours. When I
Speaker 1: was a private, it's impossible to keep your guard up
Speaker 1: that long. I had to play a game with myself.
Speaker 1: I had to pretend like somebody really was trying to
Speaker 1: break in, and you know, I can only play that
Speaker 1: game for an hour and a half. But but it's
Speaker 1: the same here. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep my vigil up, got my pistol all the time,
Speaker 1: got my pepper spray, I'm gonna, you know, check under
Speaker 1: the car. I'm gonna do this that you do it
Speaker 1: for a few days and then it just kind of
Speaker 1: slepts off. Yeah, well it's that's just like um even
Speaker 1: here tonight. I was on Facebook earlier and Billy Joel
Speaker 1: is having a concert tonight at Madison Square Garden, and
Speaker 1: I saw that he posted get get their earl because
Speaker 1: of heightened security. And I'm sure it'll be hyped security
Speaker 1: for a while, and then it'll be back to what
Speaker 1: we know as normal security, and three six months from
Speaker 1: now it will be the same as if you went
Speaker 1: to a Billy Joel concert or whatever concert prior to
Speaker 1: the ari on a Grande incident in the UK. I
Speaker 1: don't have to tell you anything, and you're already obviously
Speaker 1: understand it very well. That's the way I see it.
Speaker 1: I was hoping I could be selfish for about a minute.
Speaker 1: I want Jack, I'd like to ask you, how did
Speaker 1: you how the hell did you get an interview with Asad?
Speaker 1: How that happened? Just like cold cold call, Hey uncle
Speaker 1: shar Uh. It was no great feat of mine. I
Speaker 1: was invited to that conference that the Syrian government hosted
Speaker 1: to bring journalists to Damascus. Um, yeah, way back when
Speaker 1: was it last November? And Um, while I was there,
Speaker 1: one of the organizers came and said, um, the tonight,
Speaker 1: this evening. Uh, you know you're gonna come with me
Speaker 1: in a small group to interview President Assad and yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was like okay, interesting, and um it was.
Speaker 1: It was a small group of people. There's like six
Speaker 1: of us. Um, there's a New York Times journalist, someone
Speaker 1: from the New Yorker magazine. There was UM, a couple
Speaker 1: of people from different think tanks UM, and then there
Speaker 1: was me, And I think each of us were chosen
Speaker 1: to fill a different demographic to help right to to
Speaker 1: kind of spread the word is far and wide as uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the regime wanted and and and in some
Speaker 1: I think we all spread the word in ways they liked,
Speaker 1: in ways they didn't like. UM. But that was kind
Speaker 1: of how that came about. And I think I was
Speaker 1: selected because I was the military voice in that group.
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, I think I think that's why they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the guy the editor of soft Wrap. They
Speaker 1: had identified me previously as someone who is anti intervention
Speaker 1: in Syria. UM. I had written. I had written articles saying,
Speaker 1: you know, we should not intervene in Syria, UM, at
Speaker 1: least like overtly, like military action. We should not be
Speaker 1: involved in regime change there. And that's always been my
Speaker 1: stance on Syria. And that, uh, that of course is
Speaker 1: something that their assad regime appreciates. You know, They're like, yes,
Speaker 1: we agree with this view, Jack. So I think that's
Speaker 1: why I was selected for that. Yeah, I had a
Speaker 1: slight suspicion of a little of that. I've never thinking it. Well,
Speaker 1: the first when I heard you did the interview, I'm like,
Speaker 1: who is this guy? Jack? I thought I knew him,
Speaker 1: But what kind of power does he have? Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: if that if the president has knows anything at all
Speaker 1: about demands this ship, you probably want to do an interview. So, um,
Speaker 1: I guess there you go. Yeah, that was that that
Speaker 1: really threw me back. Said there was one other thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask. Yeah, but I was just gonna
Speaker 1: say real quick that the cool thing though, that Jack
Speaker 1: has said before in a previous podcast, when you really
Speaker 1: think about it, it will never happen again. There's never
Speaker 1: gonna be someone who gets to do what you did.
Speaker 1: Know they got what they wanted out of it too.
Speaker 1: Like I I think I've said before, I've submitted my
Speaker 1: visa to go back to Syria and they're yeah, they're
Speaker 1: not interested. They're not interested. So sorry what we're saying, George, Um,
Speaker 1: I just I just wanted to be selfish again. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to know Ian, how did you get where
Speaker 1: you're at? How did you get started in this biz
Speaker 1: and end up where you're at right now? That's pretty
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah it is, Um. I feel like I've
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit on the show before.
Speaker 1: So I went to hot University for radio, got a
Speaker 1: degree in radio first gi. Yeah. The first gig ever
Speaker 1: that I got was at Sirius xm uh. There was
Speaker 1: this show called Fangoria Radio based off the Horror magazine
Speaker 1: at the time. They were doing all different types of thing.
Speaker 1: They were doing Fangoria TV, uh and you know, they
Speaker 1: had this radio show on Sirius hosted by d Snyder
Speaker 1: from Twisted Sister. UM got to work on there. I
Speaker 1: helped make the theme music and it was it was
Speaker 1: actually like this never ending internship. So at a certain point,
Speaker 1: I was like, am I ever going to get like
Speaker 1: on board here because they were paying me, but it
Speaker 1: was like minimum wage. So I left. I worked at
Speaker 1: a vitamin call center, which is like the shittiest job
Speaker 1: in the world. It sucks. I was just one of
Speaker 1: those people where people would call in, they'd want they'd
Speaker 1: want to buy whatever products we were advertising on the radio, UM,
Speaker 1: and I would have to sell them as much stuff
Speaker 1: as I possibly could, uh, you know, and then just
Speaker 1: working at this call center. I'm not even why, like
Speaker 1: I remember, UH, we sold this prostate product. I won't
Speaker 1: say who the company was. And so woman called and
Speaker 1: it was like I keep getting up to go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom and I put her on hold. Them like
Speaker 1: does this woman not realize she's a prostate? They're like
Speaker 1: just fucking sell it to her anyway, you know, Like
Speaker 1: that's that's how they were. So I was, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was very like soul sucking job. And at one point,
Speaker 1: UM the guys from Fangoria Radio called me and they
Speaker 1: asked if I wanted to perform the theme music for
Speaker 1: the uh. I think it was the fifth anniversary of
Speaker 1: the show at that point. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'll come in. And the show was from I think
Speaker 1: eleven PM to one am or something or ten pm
Speaker 1: to midnight. It was around there. So no one on
Speaker 1: a Friday, so no one wanted to work this show.
Speaker 1: And I remember the current boardop at the time was like, hey, Ian,
Speaker 1: you know how to board op stuff. Do you want
Speaker 1: to board op this show? So I could kind of
Speaker 1: work on other shows and get a different schedule. And
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, fun, like I'm working at Vitamin
Speaker 1: call center. So serious hired me and I was That
Speaker 1: was two thousand and eight. I ended up board opting
Speaker 1: that along with shows like Mojo Nixon, Who's great? Um.
Speaker 1: And I was a fan of Andrew Wilcow show before
Speaker 1: I ever met him, and I was still going to
Speaker 1: Hofstra at the time, and I remember the program director
Speaker 1: for Hofster was like, Hey, for the McCain Obama final
Speaker 1: debated Hofstra, we're gonna have some people from Serious that
Speaker 1: you might know over at this guy Alex Bennett, And
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, this Cow guy. What it was
Speaker 1: like Andrew Wilcow and he said yeah, And that was
Speaker 1: the first time I ever met him. We kind of clicked.
Speaker 1: Thought he was a great guy still do. I'm glad
Speaker 1: that I got to work with him. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: how that happened was that his current producer at the time,
Speaker 1: Nick Rosudo, went to leave and work for The Blaze,
Speaker 1: and so Mike Bins his call screener, became the producer
Speaker 1: for that show. And just naturally, because I was hanging
Speaker 1: out with those guys, it kind of fit that I
Speaker 1: would work on that show. Uh. I got a full
Speaker 1: time position because I was doing work on Senator Bill
Speaker 1: Bradley's American Voices and they needed a producer so I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, can I make this full time position
Speaker 1: and work on both shows? Uh? And then from working
Speaker 1: on Wilkow, met Brandon Webb. They you guys had a
Speaker 1: different guy doing this podcast at the time. He I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys got rid of him or
Speaker 1: he left. I don't know, the whole show fired him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, Brandon just texted me one day and this
Speaker 1: all kind of happened at once. The full time it's serious,
Speaker 1: and Brandon texted me like, hey, do you want to
Speaker 1: help us produce this show? And I even remember Brandon
Speaker 1: saying how much do we have to pay you to
Speaker 1: do this? And I was just like, dude, I'm honored
Speaker 1: that you want me to be on board. Whatever you
Speaker 1: want to pay me. And then went to this and
Speaker 1: people were asking, we're two shows a week and now
Speaker 1: we're doing it led to a full time position, and
Speaker 1: I guess that's uh, that's the story, and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: glad to be working here with you guys. But it
Speaker 1: is funny because I am I was always fascinated with
Speaker 1: what you guys did, and that's why when I was
Speaker 1: trying to do my own thing and start my own podcast,
Speaker 1: somewhere in there. I had Brandon on on his my
Speaker 1: first guest but by no means in my special ops expert,
Speaker 1: and I was trying to make that clear. And I'm
Speaker 1: not a veteran, but I've learned so much talking to guys.
Speaker 1: This show stole. I remember that one of the funniest
Speaker 1: reviews before we recorded, I was saying to you, how
Speaker 1: I'm to Jack, I'm not someone who thinks everybody is
Speaker 1: a hater who throws out criticism. So I'll read reviews
Speaker 1: and if someone has legit criticism and I'll try to
Speaker 1: improve upon it. But I still remember one of the
Speaker 1: like weirdest iTunes reviews was about me, and it said
Speaker 1: the host is I remember is basically the host is
Speaker 1: not a veteran, has no military experience, yet he acts
Speaker 1: like he was in a Tier one unit. How do
Speaker 1: I act like I was in a Tier one unit? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's that's he's completely off base. Yeah. I was able
Speaker 1: to kind of laugh that one off because some of
Speaker 1: the other criticism like, all right, it's legit. They were
Speaker 1: like he needs to expand his vocabulary and not say
Speaker 1: um dude every two seconds. I was like, yeah, that's legit. Bro, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you are active on the on the
Speaker 1: Writer's page as well. Thanks, because I mean, the Writer's
Speaker 1: page is one of the highlights of my day, man,
Speaker 1: when I can get in there and bust chops and
Speaker 1: make you know, legitimate, uh serious comments and they just
Speaker 1: make fun. But that is one of the highlights of
Speaker 1: my day. I'm glad George, And now so many subscribers
Speaker 1: are gonna wish they could be on the Writer's page,
Speaker 1: but it is completely secret wish. Um. Yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on, man, and we'll do this again soon.
Speaker 1: You guys could follow George on Twitter at George e
Speaker 1: hand the fourth so that's George e Hand I v
Speaker 1: on Twitter and then George. Also, it's funny you were
Speaker 1: saying Jack that after the work that George does, he
Speaker 1: probably wants to watch like Disney movies or something. So
Speaker 1: I do know that George does photography on the side,
Speaker 1: which has to be a little bit wider. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I got a wedding coming up in September, so I'm
Speaker 1: nervous about that. Those are really difficult. But um, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you guys. I appreciate this interview. Um, clearly
Speaker 1: you guys were really listening to what I was saying
Speaker 1: because your questions we were excellent, so that I just
Speaker 1: really appreciate appreciate that about both of you. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on, George. I mean to me, this
Speaker 1: is like what you're involved in is like the war
Speaker 1: back home that you know we should be fighting. So um,
Speaker 1: you know, I love what you guys are doing at
Speaker 1: the Deliver Fund, and I think it's just great stuff. Okay,
Speaker 1: my conflidence check. Yeah, thanks George, and I hope to
Speaker 1: talk to you again soon, right on. Okays, appreciate it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I finally have you on yet. Have a nice afternoon, man,
Speaker 1: great interview. And uh, you know, it's a dark subject,
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people would say that
Speaker 1: he's doing God's work or because it's a pretty amazing
Speaker 1: thing that he has to go through. And then also
Speaker 1: when he was describing, you know, you're trying to find
Speaker 1: out about child pornography, but then what if you're searching
Speaker 1: this out in the dark web, it's legal and plexities
Speaker 1: of it, like it's it's a pretty strange thing if
Speaker 1: you think about also the police officers who are mandated there.
Speaker 1: It's not illegal, what they're what they're doing when they're assigned,
Speaker 1: like hey, go track down child pornographers. And the police
Speaker 1: officers have to see that ship. Yeah, every day it
Speaker 1: wears on him. And uh you know, we talk a
Speaker 1: lot about like PTSD and stuff like that, but think
Speaker 1: about the police officers too and some of the things
Speaker 1: they see. Yeah, yeah, man, it's insane. Um. As promised,
Speaker 1: I did want to get to a few other things
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. UM, so we'll do that.
Speaker 1: I guess the first thing I'll mention, you know, we
Speaker 1: could do a little bit more breaking news here since
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this up as soon as possible. Uh So,
Speaker 1: the guy who's running for Ryan Zinky's seat, who's been
Speaker 1: on the show before his vacated seats, he's member of
Speaker 1: the administration now in UM Montana. Zinki has been on
Speaker 1: the show. Not this guy, not this asshole, but yeah, Zink,
Speaker 1: he has been on UM. There's only one I don't
Speaker 1: know if you even know this, there's only one congressman
Speaker 1: in Montana. You're the lone congressman because the population so small. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's almost like being the senator there. You know,
Speaker 1: you're pretty powerful you're in a pretty powerful position. So
Speaker 1: this guy, uh Greg Gianforte is running for that Congress seat,
Speaker 1: and this is what he did to a reporter at
Speaker 1: the at the Guardian, at the CBO score because you
Speaker 1: know you're waiting to make your decision about healthcare until
Speaker 1: you saw the bella and it just come out and
Speaker 1: what you don't talk to you about that later? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's not gonna be time. Just the last time
Speaker 1: that came here, you did the same thing. Get the
Speaker 1: hell out, get the hell over. The last guy did
Speaker 1: the same thing. You were a guard. Yes, you just
Speaker 1: broke my glasses. You last guy did the same damn thing.
Speaker 1: You just body find me and broke my glasses. Get
Speaker 1: the hell out of here. You'd like me to get
Speaker 1: the hunt up. And I'd also like to call the police.
Speaker 1: Can I get you guys his names? He just bought me.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I am smiling as this goes
Speaker 1: on because of the ridiculousness of the situation. But like,
Speaker 1: this is American politics. Now you gotta ask the tough question.
Speaker 1: It's like we're turning into Italian politics now, like or
Speaker 1: like Taiwanese politics. We're gonna start having fist fights in
Speaker 1: our parliament. Yeah, like I thought it was crazy when
Speaker 1: so Dan Bongino, who had on the show, and I
Speaker 1: do like the guy, but do you remember when the
Speaker 1: bodyguard uh pushed him? Oh yeah, you know, but I'm
Speaker 1: talking about when he was running first Senate and someone
Speaker 1: asked him some stuff and he you know, they were
Speaker 1: recording it. It's a reporter, and Dan Bongino is like,
Speaker 1: you fucking asshole, go fund yourself. Like he flipped out
Speaker 1: in the sky and then they were bleashed at, you know,
Speaker 1: to the public, and he was just like yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: he came out and he was like, yeah, this guy
Speaker 1: was really bugging me some questions. And when you see it,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this does not look good for you, man.
Speaker 1: But at least it didn't get physical. When it gets
Speaker 1: physical like this, like that's a whole another level. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a loss of dignity. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what happens when you know, we live in
Speaker 1: a culture where it's like people are forever children, like
Speaker 1: we don't really grow up. You know. The reaction though
Speaker 1: it look it sucks that happens. That should never happen
Speaker 1: a reporter, but just where He's like, your body slammed me,
Speaker 1: you broke my glasses, which I know he's saying because
Speaker 1: he's recording audio, so he wants it to be known. What. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of funny, you know, it's almost
Speaker 1: like I guess that was the reporter instinct, Like if
Speaker 1: someone body slammed you and broke your glasses, I don't
Speaker 1: think your usual instinct would be to recap what he
Speaker 1: just did. If you were or if you were a lawyer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that, yeah, that's uh some crazy shit. So I
Speaker 1: would I don't know, does this disqualify you now from
Speaker 1: being a congressman? Would say so. I would say that
Speaker 1: if you can't keep your ship together when someone asked
Speaker 1: you a pretty straightforward question, then probably you don't have
Speaker 1: any business holding public office. Who determines that, though, because
Speaker 1: I would think that voters, Yeah, this could go to
Speaker 1: trial at some other time, but I think he's still
Speaker 1: probably allowed to run. And I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 1: the voters are like the media. I like this guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that could be. I mean, like we've talked
Speaker 1: about before and others have. Donald Trump ran an anti
Speaker 1: media campaign, and you know when I went on CNN,
Speaker 1: I said that to Brooke Baldwin, you said more than that.
Speaker 1: To their horror, I was like, you know, this is
Speaker 1: the anti media campaign. The media isn't very popular. People
Speaker 1: don't like the media, especially news networks like those twenty
Speaker 1: four hour news networks are like just despised by the public. Um.
Speaker 1: So Trump was able to run an anti media campaign. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that relate directly to this
Speaker 1: event or not, but you know, people becoming more and
Speaker 1: more hostile towards the media in general. And I mean
Speaker 1: I think that I think the media needs to take
Speaker 1: also a long hard look in the mirror and you
Speaker 1: know about their practices, not that specific journalists that got
Speaker 1: body slams, but they need to look at themselves and
Speaker 1: do a little bit of soul searching as well. Um.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, maybe politicians just feel emboldened and
Speaker 1: feel like, uh, you know, they can take this like
Speaker 1: hostile stands towards the media. Um. The smarter ones know
Speaker 1: how to work for the media to their advantage. You know,
Speaker 1: even even uh Secretary Maddis. I mean, if you look
Speaker 1: at the way he handles the media compared to Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: it's like night and day, and you know he handles
Speaker 1: it like an adult. Well I saw that. Paul Ryan
Speaker 1: and other leaders at the Party of UH said like,
Speaker 1: we condemn this behavior. So it makes me wonder will
Speaker 1: this guy drop out or if if he feels like
Speaker 1: he can actually win, maybe he'll say, I don't want
Speaker 1: to drop out. Yeah, I don't know. It's like there's
Speaker 1: no shame in politics anymore. I mean, the only thing
Speaker 1: that can really kick you out is if you get
Speaker 1: caught in a hotel room with a little boy or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like Anthony Weiner, Like that was like
Speaker 1: the I mean he was like rubbing one out, like
Speaker 1: next to his infant son, you know, and supposedly. I
Speaker 1: mean it's I guess there's some debate, but the woman
Speaker 1: he was sexting may or may not have been underaged. Uh.
Speaker 1: So it's like just short of that. I mean, you
Speaker 1: you know what what is disqualifying these days? I still
Speaker 1: need to watch the documentary on Anthony Weiner. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have I have to as well. I've told it
Speaker 1: was pretty good. I've been told it was great. Actually,
Speaker 1: Andrew Wilcott told me it was great. I told you.
Speaker 1: I watched the one about roger Stone. Right, Oh you did,
Speaker 1: because I told you about that. I did watch it. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was pretty incredible. I want to get him back
Speaker 1: in here. Yeah, I mean we've had him on. But
Speaker 1: the documentary was interesting because it was almost like, is
Speaker 1: this like an expose on roger Stone or is it
Speaker 1: like a pr movie made for roger Stone? Because I mean,
Speaker 1: on one hand, he's like on there on camera and
Speaker 1: he's like calling the filmmaker's pinco liberal commies. But at
Speaker 1: the same time the thing was made, it was almost
Speaker 1: made as like a commercial, like an advertisement for roger Stone.
Speaker 1: You know what, As you're saying that I'm pulling this up,
Speaker 1: actually showed it to my dad, So that's why I
Speaker 1: know it's on here. He put out like a kind
Speaker 1: of a response of exactly what you're talking about. So,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll play it for the people I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. When you recommend seeing Get Me roger Stone,
Speaker 1: I'd recommend watching it. I mean it tells you a
Speaker 1: lot about you know. I think there's some basic facts
Speaker 1: that you can derive out of that um and roger
Speaker 1: Stone is an entertaining character if nothing else. So this
Speaker 1: is what he said to in full wars. That's what
Speaker 1: roger Stone said. This is him kind of reacting to
Speaker 1: the premier and all that of here we go. I
Speaker 1: gotta pull this up. Excuse a second. Here week in
Speaker 1: New York City, let's go back. Last week in New
Speaker 1: York City, I saw for the first time the Netflix
Speaker 1: documentary Get Me roger Stone. It is a triumph. It
Speaker 1: is neither a love letter nor a hit piece, but
Speaker 1: rather a fairly accurate depiction of my political career as
Speaker 1: well as the rise of the conservative movement, born of
Speaker 1: the candidacy of Barry Goldwater, bearing fruit in the presidency
Speaker 1: of Ronald Reagan and ultimately resulting in the presidency of
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Now, I tried to figure out why Netflix
Speaker 1: would spend millions of dollars making and promoting a video
Speaker 1: that is fair to me, and then it occurred to me.
Speaker 1: They expect President Donald Trump to fail, They expect him
Speaker 1: to be unpopular at the end of his presidency, and
Speaker 1: they hope to blame me for his election. Well, they're
Speaker 1: wrong on two counts. One, Donald Trump will be a
Speaker 1: successful president just because he has an idiosyncratic style of
Speaker 1: leadership that does not meet the mold of the air
Speaker 1: brushed professional politicians who have preceded him does not mean
Speaker 1: that he does not have the leadership qualities to make
Speaker 1: America great again. And the upturn the American economy shows
Speaker 1: that the Trump program is already working. And then, secondarily,
Speaker 1: I did not elect Donald Trump. There is no Carl
Speaker 1: Rove figure in Trump world. Donald Trump is by and
Speaker 1: large his own strategist, his own press secretary, his own
Speaker 1: speech writer. And because he does not operate off of
Speaker 1: polling or focus groups or roundtables to tell him what
Speaker 1: to say in order to be popular, because he speaks
Speaker 1: from the heart and from the gut and not from
Speaker 1: a speech written by some twenty five year old speech writer,
Speaker 1: the American people realize that he is the genuine article.
Speaker 1: He is the master of his own fate. He is
Speaker 1: the architect of his presence. Zones working really hard on
Speaker 1: the inflection of his voice. A small part of it.
Speaker 1: I am happy to have played a small part of it.
Speaker 1: He's doing the Richard Nixon, his idol. But it is uh,
Speaker 1: it is interesting, and I do agree with him saying
Speaker 1: though that it was neither a hit piece nor a
Speaker 1: you know, as kissing thing. I thought it was a
Speaker 1: little odd in that regard that I tried to stride
Speaker 1: across both um and and that he was fine with it.
Speaker 1: Like he you would think he'd be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: take out the part of me working with brutal dictators
Speaker 1: to get money for my political action committee. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny that he goes on Alex Jones, some he's
Speaker 1: intimately involved with. Isn't he like the financial backer behind
Speaker 1: info Wars? No, I don't think. I I think Alex
Speaker 1: Jones for as far as I know, I think Alex
Speaker 1: Jones just hired him to do a radio show. And uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe maybe he does have some involvement.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that. Um. But anyway, there he is
Speaker 1: on on info Wars and uh, and he's saying, they
Speaker 1: made a largely you know, positive, accurate, fair documentary about me,
Speaker 1: but they made it because I'm the victim here and
Speaker 1: they're trying to expecting Trump to fail and then they
Speaker 1: can come back around. And there's all this like byzantine
Speaker 1: plotting going on. It's like, even when you make a
Speaker 1: what in his words, a fair and accurate documentary about him,
Speaker 1: he's somehow the victim in some sort of liberal scheme
Speaker 1: would you like to get him in here? You know,
Speaker 1: he has been like I said, he's been on the
Speaker 1: show with Brandon and I and uh, he's an extremely
Speaker 1: nice guy. I'll honestly say, I like the guy. I
Speaker 1: mean yes and no, I mean I guess it would
Speaker 1: make for you know, good radio. I don't expect him
Speaker 1: to be candid in any way with his answers. No,
Speaker 1: he's always hYP hyperbolic, and he in his words, he's
Speaker 1: I'm a political provocateur. You know he's not. He's not
Speaker 1: there too wax poetic, but and he's honest about it.
Speaker 1: Like That's why I actually do love the quote from
Speaker 1: him where he says, the only thing worse, uh in
Speaker 1: politics than being wrong is being boring. He's like, so,
Speaker 1: I try to never be boring. And he says, the
Speaker 1: only way that you get attention is to be wild
Speaker 1: and and to be the way Donald Trump has. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a political operative. He hasn't had that fact. Um. So.
Speaker 1: The way that we got onto this subject though, was
Speaker 1: the Anthony Weener documentary, which I've yet to see. I
Speaker 1: did hear from Andrew Wilco who saw it that like,
Speaker 1: the best part is so Anthony Weiner would have been
Speaker 1: a shoe in for the mayor of New York had
Speaker 1: it have not been for this whole scandal. There's no
Speaker 1: way to Blasio would have won. But once it all happened,
Speaker 1: he was done. And apparently the best part, like from
Speaker 1: what I hear, two of the best parts of the
Speaker 1: documentary are when he's with his staff making phone calls
Speaker 1: and really getting his name out there in the height
Speaker 1: of this whole scandal, and he's saying like, man, I
Speaker 1: think we could really win this thing, and his campaigned
Speaker 1: Eyser and all these people are like, Anthony, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna win, like they're just and he's like, no, I
Speaker 1: think we could beat this and they're like, no, it's over.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna win. I don't know, man, that that
Speaker 1: whole thing is so weird. He's obviously a mentally ill individual.
Speaker 1: He has a sickness of some kind. There's an addiction,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's been you know, he's I think
Speaker 1: he's undergone treatment. And then the whole thing with Humo also,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, Humo, why are you still with this dude?
Speaker 1: You know? Um And I can only imagine that Hillary
Speaker 1: is like, no, you've got to stay by your man
Speaker 1: so you can use him to leap frog. And you
Speaker 1: know there's some there's some liberal plotting for you, right,
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if she was saying that
Speaker 1: kind of thing to humor. Right. Well, there's always been
Speaker 1: the the rumor that they have some type of lesbian relationship.
Speaker 1: There is it might be a little Roger Stone as Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: my sources have told me that's bullshit. There's no lesbian
Speaker 1: relationship or anything like that. It's more are it's more
Speaker 1: like mother and daughter in the sense that Huma is
Speaker 1: um about the same age as Chelsea, and she started
Speaker 1: working for Hillary when she was a kid. She was
Speaker 1: still a teenager and she's been with Hillary the whole time,
Speaker 1: so gotcha. Yeah, they're pretty close. And then the other
Speaker 1: part of the documentary, which I still need to see
Speaker 1: that i've heard, is when he's just I guess in
Speaker 1: his hometown or something and you know, Jewish community, and
Speaker 1: there's some guy in a yamaka screaming at him like
Speaker 1: you pervert, you should be ashamed of yourself. And instead
Speaker 1: of Anthony just like walking. You've probably seen the clip
Speaker 1: because it was all over there, instead of him just
Speaker 1: like walking past this guy getting back to his car.
Speaker 1: He starts engaging the guy and he's like, what about you?
Speaker 1: Who are you to judge me? And all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And then when he was in the deli getting because
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a Jewish community, so he just
Speaker 1: handled it terribly. And the whole thing is like he
Speaker 1: would get out of the spotlight after this, and he's
Speaker 1: still get Like, you know, I actually do feel and
Speaker 1: that for the guy that definitely has some type of
Speaker 1: an addiction. But you know, I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: what else to say beyond that it does suck. I mean,
Speaker 1: if if it was involving minors, then no, I don't
Speaker 1: feel bad for that. But if it was him just
Speaker 1: learn girls on Twitter, you know, and then claiming I
Speaker 1: got hacked, it's clear that it's something that like he's
Speaker 1: not even in control of. It's like a real addiction,
Speaker 1: like he literally cannot say no, you know the fact
Speaker 1: that he has to keep sexting women all the time.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you, ma'am? Come on? And then the
Speaker 1: last thing before we get out of here, I will
Speaker 1: hand you this blowing up picture of Gene Fornes work.
Speaker 1: It's and I know it's not the same. I'm not
Speaker 1: even I've been before the software party. Okay, so I'm
Speaker 1: not even an attempt to read this in a Gene
Speaker 1: forns Worth voice. It's not the same about You're just
Speaker 1: gonna hear it from my voice. How do you listen
Speaker 1: to cast to fifty? It's monny, even me reading it
Speaker 1: like you want to hear his voice? All right? How
Speaker 1: do you listen to cast to fifty? Really appreciate the
Speaker 1: kind words. My kids get a real kick out of
Speaker 1: your remarks. I live in Denver. I thought it was Michigan.
Speaker 1: I live in Denver, but work all over the USA,
Speaker 1: currently running a project at the v A and Topeka, Kansas.
Speaker 1: Would love to get back to New York. Last time
Speaker 1: I was there, a plane flew into the building over
Speaker 1: my head. I want to get back and pay my
Speaker 1: respects to those folks who died that day. I included
Speaker 1: a picture so Jack and see that he is half right,
Speaker 1: half a gray beard on my face. Take care looking good, Gene,
Speaker 1: looking good? And I mean I think if the goatee
Speaker 1: is a preview, he can grow the old sailor beard.
Speaker 1: I think he could do it. That would be badass.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we went, um, nearly two hours here.
Speaker 1: Now that we could do these two shows a week,
Speaker 1: we can go along and now you can listen to
Speaker 1: me rant about all things social, political, religious all day long. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love it, man. And I guess to your friends
Speaker 1: who just listened to the show on Apple Podcast, tell
Speaker 1: him to become a subscriber because they get stuff like this. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure though with UM, I was gonna
Speaker 1: mention it, but I still haven't gotten an answered. The
Speaker 1: desiree was saying, how Memorial Day weekend, we're opening up
Speaker 1: the paywall. Yeah, I don't know if that includes the
Speaker 1: radio shop. I don't know if it includes the radio either,
Speaker 1: but but over the Memorial Day weekend, yeah, you'll be
Speaker 1: able to check out. I think the entire website of
Speaker 1: soft rep will be viewable from non subscribers. So tell
Speaker 1: your friends. Yeah, if you're interested, tell your friends, tell
Speaker 1: your mom, tell your pets, you know, tell everybody. Um,
Speaker 1: and you can go check out the website and and
Speaker 1: see if it's something you're interested in. You know, or
Speaker 1: they are, because these people are already interested. If they're yeah, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and if you like the content on there, um,
Speaker 1: and maybe you consider subscribing, and I might, you know,
Speaker 1: recommend that you go and check out lots of Jack
Speaker 1: Murphy articles. Um, but you know, check out George hands work.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many people on the website that
Speaker 1: have made contributions. Um, it's incredible. You've been listening to
Speaker 1: self Radio atpisodes up every Wednesday and Friday for all
Speaker 1: of the great content from our veteran journalists. Join us
Speaker 1: and become a team room member today at soft rep
Speaker 1: dot com. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at
Speaker 1: soft Rep Radio, and be sure to also check out
Speaker 1: the Power of Thought podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO
Speaker 1: and Navy Seal Sniper instructor Brandon Webb, M