Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay. Usually when we begin the show, we we
Speaker 1: like to have some sort of bit or some sort
Speaker 1: of reference, some sort of tangential thing. But this story
Speaker 1: is so strange that I feel like we I don't
Speaker 1: know how we opened. I'm just laughing to myself, Man,
Speaker 1: are you at a loss for bits? I'm usually I've
Speaker 1: got a couple of backpocket bits chomping at the bit, right,
Speaker 1: But I'm not bitter about this. Hey, hey, you're no
Speaker 1: I am Nol, and you sir, our band the bit,
Speaker 1: mister Bowling, Thank you, thank you, Nola. We are joined
Speaker 1: with our super producer, Casey pegram Uh. I think none
Speaker 1: of us are Catholic, right. I went to a Catholic
Speaker 1: mass like a couple of times when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was very interesting. There was like
Speaker 1: a like a dude with a robe waving around this
Speaker 1: like thing with smoke coming out of the chain. What
Speaker 1: a thurible? Really? Yeah, I think that's the word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the incense. Yeah, So it's funny you mentioned that
Speaker 1: the first time I ever saw Catholic mass, I was
Speaker 1: living in Guatemala and my Spanish wasn't very good, let
Speaker 1: alone my Latin. So I was completely out of my element,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was fascinating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So you're probably wondering why we're mentioning, uh, Catholicism here,
Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. It's because our show today takes us to
Speaker 1: a very very strange episode in Catholic history, and for
Speaker 1: a long time on another show, we do stuff they
Speaker 1: wants you to know. We had a running character that
Speaker 1: you used to do, knowl which was the Pope. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that's it. Welcome. Yeah. But then I I kind of
Speaker 1: came to my attention, maybe just through my own paranoia,
Speaker 1: that maybe it's not okay to to do a voice
Speaker 1: for the Pope that sounds like a weird, strangulated muppet.
Speaker 1: Well maybe, I mean maybe it had its time, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I thought it was some good work there. Who's
Speaker 1: that guy that does that podcast you made it weird?
Speaker 1: Pete Holmes case, Yeah, Pete Holmes. He I saw him
Speaker 1: do stand up in m l A at that Price
Speaker 1: sudn't get one time, and he had a really good
Speaker 1: bit about how as a culture we have this bizarre
Speaker 1: blind spot in our like idea of racism, and it's
Speaker 1: for Italians because it's like somehow okay to go like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's a meme Mario, like a pizza pi or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's okay. But any other you know, doing an Asian
Speaker 1: voice or something that's right out that is not cool.
Speaker 1: And he made I don't know, I though it was
Speaker 1: a really good point. It is a good point. I
Speaker 1: wonder if it holds the same in other countries where
Speaker 1: English is the primary language. Like do people in the UK,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to the UK, do you folks do
Speaker 1: the Italian voice? Is it just an American thing? Are
Speaker 1: we the jerks? I think we might be. We might be,
Speaker 1: but we're not going to be as big of jerks
Speaker 1: as the popes of the past. Event man, the past popes,
Speaker 1: my friend. So here's the thing. There was a time
Speaker 1: when what we know is the Holy Roman Empire was
Speaker 1: was was fresh and and and young and and the
Speaker 1: new thing right, And this was in the eighth and
Speaker 1: ninth centuries. And really great article from um All that
Speaker 1: is Interesting dot Com called better Noah Pope Stephen the
Speaker 1: sixth the Grave Robber outlines quite beautifully the life and
Speaker 1: times of this papal jerk. Yeah, yeah, this period of time,
Speaker 1: it's just so rife with corruption. That's that's the best
Speaker 1: way to say it. And there's a term that you
Speaker 1: and I learned that later historians would use to um
Speaker 1: to describe this period between like eighth and ninth century
Speaker 1: a d Holy Roman Empire. Right, Yeah, it was the pornocracy, right, pornocracy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, google that if you wish. But you know,
Speaker 1: we can't guarantee that I won't get you in trouble
Speaker 1: on your work computer. But we're not talking about Stephen
Speaker 1: the sixth right away, not just yet. No, we're talking
Speaker 1: about another pope named Formosis, which is a great pope name.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a It sounds like a sith
Speaker 1: lord's name in Star Wars and be like Darth Formosis.
Speaker 1: So Formosis name aside, he had quite a history with
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Eventually he becomes pope, but before he
Speaker 1: becomes pope, we have to talk about what happened when
Speaker 1: he was cardinal bishop, right, because he had uh so
Speaker 1: in the seeds of his later problems in his time
Speaker 1: as a cardinal bishop. Yeah, because he was also a
Speaker 1: very very successful missionary, and those bulgers that you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: he was converting them to Catholicism left and right. And
Speaker 1: he was actually accused by the sitting pope at the time,
Speaker 1: who was a guy named Pope John the Eight, of
Speaker 1: breaking a law of the Roman Catholic Church that prevented
Speaker 1: um anyone from being a bishop in more than one place,
Speaker 1: and because of his missionary work that had sort of
Speaker 1: could have been perceived as having happened um and so
Speaker 1: he actually was excommunicated. He was he was excommunicated by
Speaker 1: John the Eight because the rumor was that he was
Speaker 1: a bishop of Porto in eight sixty four, but then
Speaker 1: also a bishop in Bulgaria a little bit later on. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing was the reason that that law had
Speaker 1: been passed, and I think it was a pretty pretty
Speaker 1: new law is because we talked about that those fractured
Speaker 1: little fiefdoms throughout Europe. Um, those were a problem because
Speaker 1: there was division within the church. There was division culturally
Speaker 1: and ideologically, and the Roman College Church did not want
Speaker 1: to um feed into that anymore by having any one
Speaker 1: man in the church have too much power over too
Speaker 1: many areas, because that could cause a problem. No one
Speaker 1: man should have all that power. Casey twee cut to
Speaker 1: that clip real quick. I think it's appropriate. We don't
Speaker 1: know whether Formosis would have dug that song, but maybe
Speaker 1: he would. We don't know much about the guy's musical taste.
Speaker 1: So he ultimately is, as you said, Noel, excommunicated because
Speaker 1: he had wronged John eight In. On Abril eighteenth of
Speaker 1: eight Pope John the eighth called a synod a synod
Speaker 1: and requested that all these other papal officials returned to Rome. Side.
Speaker 1: That's just a fancy word for this meeting of the clergy.
Speaker 1: It's like a like a brain trust, like some sort
Speaker 1: of like think tank. Yeah. Yeah, and there can be
Speaker 1: different versions of it. But remember that word because it
Speaker 1: becomes very important later. So Foremosis, still in France, says,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to that. So since he
Speaker 1: doesn't comply, he's removed from the ranks of the clergy.
Speaker 1: He's excommunicated. And the reason given is that he is
Speaker 1: excommunicated because he deserted his diocese without the permission of
Speaker 1: the pope and that double bishoping double dipping bishop. I
Speaker 1: like that double dipping bishop. And he also openly aspired
Speaker 1: for the papacy whatever that means, like a campaigned for
Speaker 1: it or what I don't know. It seems like he
Speaker 1: was railroaded quite a bit by by dudes that did
Speaker 1: not like the fact that he um was kind of
Speaker 1: better than them. I don't know in terms of just
Speaker 1: like his his goodness, because I'm not reading a whole
Speaker 1: lot of corruption, actual corruption on his side. It seems
Speaker 1: like it's most of the other the other folks just
Speaker 1: like a lot of politicking very much. So it's sort
Speaker 1: of like that that Second Star Wars prequel, the Second
Speaker 1: Star Double Dipping Bishop. So this is announced in eight
Speaker 1: seventy two. In July, it's formally announced that Formosis and
Speaker 1: several other people are excommunicated, But a few years later,
Speaker 1: in eight the sentence of excommunication was withdrawn after Formosis
Speaker 1: promised to never again return to Rome, nor to exercise
Speaker 1: his priestly functions ever for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: He agreed, But it didn't. Isn't this when John the
Speaker 1: eighth got murdered? Yet? John the eighth assassinated? Right? Well?
Speaker 1: But how did it? How did it happen? Was it
Speaker 1: one of those shady like may have been an accident
Speaker 1: or was it pretty clearly a murder? Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't I do not think he was, he was
Speaker 1: beloved by the people because he was first poisoned and
Speaker 1: then someone bashed his head in with the hammer because
Speaker 1: the poison was taking too long. UM. So then you know,
Speaker 1: then we end up in this kind of like really
Speaker 1: rough and tumble period where there's like several popes in
Speaker 1: between him and uh when ultimately when our guy Foremostis
Speaker 1: becomes the pope. So immediately after this we have, um
Speaker 1: a quick turnaround of popes. We've got Mariness the first,
Speaker 1: and then it's quickly followed by, um, a guy named
Speaker 1: Saint Adrian the third, and he kind of thinks better
Speaker 1: of Foremostis and overturns all of those penalties that he
Speaker 1: had to he had to suffer. So he's now allowed
Speaker 1: not only is he allowed to come back to Rome
Speaker 1: and keep practicing what he's doing. Um, he actually becomes
Speaker 1: the pope the next pope. Yes, he is unanimously elected
Speaker 1: the pope on October six, and this ushers in a
Speaker 1: weird period for the pope. Votes for the Pope ben
Speaker 1: we do not unless we become cardinals in the church.
Speaker 1: So if foremosts was so unpopular at the point where
Speaker 1: he got excommunicated and banned for life UM, but then
Speaker 1: was unanimously elected pope. It really just goes to show
Speaker 1: there were some serious like factions. I mean, this whole
Speaker 1: idea of the splintered UM loyalties is on full display here.
Speaker 1: And I guess after our our guy John the Eighth
Speaker 1: got you know, club to death UM, that tide turned
Speaker 1: in his favor. Uh. And he served as pope for
Speaker 1: I think a good five years. And in that five
Speaker 1: years he accomplished some pretty cool stuff. Yeah, I believe
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. He was pope from October six until
Speaker 1: his death in eight and he didn't get a particularly
Speaker 1: great situation, you know what I mean when he became pope.
Speaker 1: And obviously, as you can tell from the timeline, he
Speaker 1: did not serve his pope for very long, but he
Speaker 1: did try his best to navigate the cha bodic geopolitical
Speaker 1: issues of the day. The problem is he became engrossed
Speaker 1: in some real beefs with some powerful enemies. One of
Speaker 1: the most prominent is a guy named Guy the third
Speaker 1: of Spiletto, the Holy Roman Emperor, and started as sort
Speaker 1: of a just like a somewhat distant UM struggle for control,
Speaker 1: but then it was building quickly into open warfare. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. Um, and this guy, Uh, this guy Guy
Speaker 1: of Spoleto was on the other end of that open
Speaker 1: warfare and foremost Is actually ended up having to um
Speaker 1: a mass An army to go to war with him.
Speaker 1: And when he did this, as he was doing this,
Speaker 1: rather he died. Um. He got paralyzed quote struck by
Speaker 1: paralysis at grant of this article in all that is
Speaker 1: interesting dot com. And he passed away. And so, guys,
Speaker 1: problems were resolved and the problems or we talked about
Speaker 1: earlier how there was a lot of vying for um
Speaker 1: control and cash flow from these holy Roman brothels UM,
Speaker 1: and that was kind of at the center of this.
Speaker 1: See there's the thing I said that Foremosis didn't really
Speaker 1: seem to have too much dirt on him, but it
Speaker 1: did seem like he was still kind of running the
Speaker 1: numbers and and playing the game in terms of like
Speaker 1: where this money went. But I think he just didn't
Speaker 1: give the right bishops the cash and he became sort
Speaker 1: of persona on grata for the ones that were amassed
Speaker 1: behind guy, and so Formosis dies. The next pope is
Speaker 1: uh is a guy named Pope Boniface the six, and
Speaker 1: this pope is a native of Rome, and he is
Speaker 1: Pope uh in April of eight nine. He was mainly
Speaker 1: elected because there were a ton of riots right after
Speaker 1: the death of Pope Formosis and after a pontificate of
Speaker 1: fifteen day is he either died of the gout or
Speaker 1: he was forcibly ejected to make way for a character
Speaker 1: named Stephen the Sixth, who mentioned at the beginning, thanks
Speaker 1: for sticking around, folks. We got there. We did get there.
Speaker 1: A lot of ground to cover between there and here.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Stephen the sixth Um is sort of our
Speaker 1: papal looney tune in today's episode. Um. He had a
Speaker 1: lot of problems with Foremost Us in the first place
Speaker 1: because he did not like the way he interpreted doctrine,
Speaker 1: that idea of the way either the Godhead and all
Speaker 1: of that. Ben, can you give us a little more
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, it's like you said earlier, there's a
Speaker 1: difference here in the nature of the Holy Spirit, how
Speaker 1: it relates to the Trinity, how it relates to the Godhead,
Speaker 1: and without getting too far in the weeds here, it
Speaker 1: sounds very technical, but it's an argument that they took
Speaker 1: very very very very seriously, gravely, seriously, one might say.
Speaker 1: But the truth is that we don't know too much
Speaker 1: about Steven's early life. We don't know what his name
Speaker 1: originally was, we don't know what you're was born. But
Speaker 1: we we do know a little bit about his life.
Speaker 1: It seems that he was the son of a priest.
Speaker 1: When he you know, when he attained adulthood, he went
Speaker 1: into the church, But it was actually Formosis who made
Speaker 1: him a bishop, and he was made a bishop under
Speaker 1: pressure from guy three of Spiletto. Ah. Yes, so here's
Speaker 1: how it goes. Um, Stephen the sixth becomes the pope
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, like I don't even understand what
Speaker 1: the point of this is. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 1: the whole seed of ridiculousness in this story, is Um.
Speaker 1: He was so angry with Formosis, who who, as we've mentioned,
Speaker 1: has died at this point, that he decided it would
Speaker 1: be a good idea to hold another one of those
Speaker 1: sign ons, right sign on saying sinn on, sign on,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Sign on sounds very sci fi, So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say like that, Um, so he calls of
Speaker 1: those sort of like a king's moot in uh in
Speaker 1: RPG games, and he um has the corpse of said
Speaker 1: pope dug up and dressed up in the papal robes
Speaker 1: and sat in the papal throne and tried for all
Speaker 1: of those things that he got reversed, remember the excommunication
Speaker 1: and the whole like being a bishop in two places
Speaker 1: and all that. Um Stephen did not forget those things.
Speaker 1: And he's here's the thing. You can look at it
Speaker 1: one of two ways. That he was legitimately conscientiously outraged
Speaker 1: about these things and that he would not let those
Speaker 1: uh heresies stand, or he was trying to get a
Speaker 1: little juice from all of those political factions that were
Speaker 1: anti foremost as if we know there were many. And
Speaker 1: there's a couple more reasons I want to point out
Speaker 1: before we get into the next bit of the story
Speaker 1: as to why that was. If you're listening to this
Speaker 1: by a computer or a desktop, or you're on your
Speaker 1: phone somewhere safe, go ahead and pull up this fantastic
Speaker 1: painting by Jean Paul Lawrence called Pope Formosis and Stephen
Speaker 1: the Seventh. That's the same, guys. Stephen the six is
Speaker 1: a whole different thing, but that's the original title of
Speaker 1: the painting, So no, where are those other reasons? Well,
Speaker 1: in addition to the whole brothel debacle um and black
Speaker 1: the exactly, he also he just got embroiled in a
Speaker 1: lot of geopolitical disputes that you know, resulted in people
Speaker 1: gaining and losing a lot of money. Um. One was
Speaker 1: he actually intervened in constantinople Um where a patriarch named
Speaker 1: Photius the First had been ousted, and um also the
Speaker 1: son of Emperor Basil the First, a guy named Stephen,
Speaker 1: had taken his place. It's a different Stephen. He also
Speaker 1: refused to reinstate people who have been ordained by the
Speaker 1: patriarch by Photius the First. That's right, Okay, Ben so
Speaker 1: I sort of glossed over we both a little bit
Speaker 1: glossed over his uh, kind of disagreements with Guy the
Speaker 1: third of Spoleto, who was the Holy Roman Emperor. That's
Speaker 1: an interesting thing about the Holy Roman Empire, right, you
Speaker 1: haven't you have this Holy Roman Emperor and then you
Speaker 1: have the pope and they're kind of like the pope
Speaker 1: is sort of the the the spiritual wing, and then
Speaker 1: the emperor is the political head of state or whatever.
Speaker 1: But he didn't wanted to overthrow guy the third of Spoleto.
Speaker 1: So he actually supported factions that we're going against him,
Speaker 1: and he actually convinced Arnolf of Corinthia to invade Rome
Speaker 1: and take control of Italy from Spoleto, so you know,
Speaker 1: and then Spoleto was kind of pals with our boy
Speaker 1: Stephen the sixth. So there we go. Is that does that?
Speaker 1: Does that summing up in a nutshell? I think we're
Speaker 1: getting close. I think that's that's good, just in terms
Speaker 1: of why someone would be so angry with this man
Speaker 1: after he was already dead that he decided to dig
Speaker 1: up his rotting bones from the ground, dress him up
Speaker 1: in this pageantry and shove him in a chair and
Speaker 1: try him for harresy. Let me, yeah, let me paint
Speaker 1: some more of the picture here about how this trial
Speaker 1: actually went. And I hope you guys can hear the
Speaker 1: air quotes when I say trial. So there's a great
Speaker 1: article on this beliefs from National Geographic Vengeance at the Vatican,
Speaker 1: the Cadaver Snod and this is seen as the lowest
Speaker 1: point in the continual chaos of ninth century Italy. So
Speaker 1: there's a another player that enters the fields here who
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't get as much mentioned as they should. Guy
Speaker 1: the third we mentioned he had sons, right, He had
Speaker 1: a son named Lambert, and Lambert ended up teaming up
Speaker 1: with the Pope Stephen too create this pr farce because
Speaker 1: Lambert said, when he was talking to Stephen the sixth,
Speaker 1: he said, we have to condemn Formosis his actions and
Speaker 1: tarnish his reputation, and it has to be in public
Speaker 1: so that his followers can see it, and it has
Speaker 1: to feel official. So it has to happen under canon
Speaker 1: law and be held before the papal curia and Roman nobility,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have Formosis himself attend. So no, as
Speaker 1: you said, they dressed him up, they exhumed him, they
Speaker 1: put him on trial. They even had someone who is
Speaker 1: supposed to speak for it as a lawyer. Yeah, against
Speaker 1: those accusations. However, the poor Sap didn't have much luck
Speaker 1: because Pope Stephen was just continually screaming at this corpse.
Speaker 1: It's a very undignified way for a pope to act,
Speaker 1: at least I would think so. In the modern day
Speaker 1: it's it's super just maccab too. And of course, you know,
Speaker 1: like he had a chance, poor Sap. He was found guilty,
Speaker 1: and they u punished him with something called damn nacio
Speaker 1: memori i, which means condemnation of memory in Latin uh.
Speaker 1: And it basically means that his tenure as pope was
Speaker 1: like men in black mind erased from history books, only
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to have taken because we're talking about
Speaker 1: it right, erased from history. Thou shalt not speak his name,
Speaker 1: and they're they're all these different desecrations they did to
Speaker 1: his body too. They tores papal vestments off, they cut
Speaker 1: off the three fingers on his hand that he used
Speaker 1: to concentrate, you know, and they threw his body in
Speaker 1: a river. Later, I think a monk or a fisherman
Speaker 1: found it. I think the river thing even came a
Speaker 1: little later. They originally just like buried him in the
Speaker 1: ground somewhere like like an unmarked grave, and then, uh,
Speaker 1: Pope Jonathan the six thought better of it and was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's too good for that. So and
Speaker 1: so let's dig him up and just toss him in
Speaker 1: the in the in the drink. Yeah, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: mentioned that, because our sources show us that first. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was dressed in common peon clothes. And then buried
Speaker 1: in an unmarked grave, a pauper's grave, and then the
Speaker 1: stories that they decided that wasn't good enough, right, so
Speaker 1: they dug him up again and threw him in the river. However,
Speaker 1: it seems like that part, the story about a monk
Speaker 1: or a fisherman pulling the pope from the river might
Speaker 1: be a myth, but we do know the story of
Speaker 1: the body doesn't stop there. This is seen as an
Speaker 1: act of very bad taste to almost everybody involved. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a wake up call where they're thinking,
Speaker 1: we're getting ridiculous. I know, we want to kill each other,
Speaker 1: but this is this is a little too far. It's
Speaker 1: a bit much. And so Stephen six ends up imprisoned
Speaker 1: a few months afterwards, and he is strangled to death
Speaker 1: in Jay And two years after that, another pope reinstates
Speaker 1: Pope Formosis and bands any further trial for dead popes.
Speaker 1: So it came to pass that Pope Formosis is buried
Speaker 1: in eight seven with full Christian honors, which it seems
Speaker 1: like a heck of a ride. It's sort of not.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's a pretty good consolation prize,
Speaker 1: but guy really went through the ringer. I just have
Speaker 1: this vision in my head that I can't I can't
Speaker 1: erase the memory. Oddly enough, or this this fanciful notion
Speaker 1: of people having to sit and watch this because they
Speaker 1: had they had to sit and observe. And do you
Speaker 1: think they were into it or do you think they're
Speaker 1: like he, I don't know about this. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, surely it's like a warning to some of
Speaker 1: formosis Is followers. Yeah, I guess, because it's again like he,
Speaker 1: he definitely had some and you know, there's nothing that
Speaker 1: I was able to find about them, like doing some
Speaker 1: sort of mass execution of anyone that was in his
Speaker 1: camp or whatever. So maybe this was their way of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, let this be a warning to you for emotions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know what, man, We're not perfect, no one is.
Speaker 1: But I can say that we have never put a
Speaker 1: corpse on trial, you know what I mean? So go us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you the fact that we're not
Speaker 1: perfect is what makes this show work. Let's hope. So, uh,
Speaker 1: and we hope you enjoyed hearing this story. We've talked
Speaker 1: about it off air, folks. We could probably do an
Speaker 1: entire podcast on popes a popecast, but that's that's a
Speaker 1: different show, right. Uh. Also we're trademarking popecast if that's
Speaker 1: already thing we we just called it. We called DIBs.
Speaker 1: Does that count? Have we called DIBs on air? Dibbs
Speaker 1: is a thing that's I think that's those rules surrounding it.
Speaker 1: It's part of the Geneva convention. Yeah, there we go,
Speaker 1: So DIBs on pope casts. But right to us and
Speaker 1: let us know what strange stories you learned about when
Speaker 1: you've read up on papal history, because we assure you
Speaker 1: there are multitudes of range stories about popes. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We highly recommend our
Speaker 1: community page Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet and speak
Speaker 1: with some of your fellow listeners. There is a podcast,
Speaker 1: by the way, damn it very disappointing, uh, installment of
Speaker 1: Casey on the case It was too you know what,
Speaker 1: podecast was too good to not be a thing. Of course,
Speaker 1: it was like a podcast chorus. We flew too close
Speaker 1: to the sun. And if you want to fly too
Speaker 1: close to the podcast son too, and you don't want
Speaker 1: to do any of that social media stuff, you can
Speaker 1: write us an email at ridiculous at how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot com. But most importantly, please join us for our
Speaker 1: next episode or we talk about spooky Filipino vampire alien
Speaker 1: monster creatures that haunt the Hills. I am so excited.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Thank you to super producer Casey Pegraham.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our research associate for this episode, Eve's Jeff Cote.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams who composed this track, and hey Noil,
Speaker 1: thanks to you here looking at you, Ben,