Speaker 1: M h foot Force. If it doesn't work, you're just
Speaker 1: not using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations,
Speaker 1: military news and straight talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 1: Software Radio on Time, on Target. Very excited to have
Speaker 1: Benedetta Argentieri back here in studio. It's been quite a while,
Speaker 1: and this is the first time you're in the newer
Speaker 1: setup of the studio. Yeah, it's very nice you were
Speaker 1: in the Chelsea. This is the third time we've had
Speaker 1: you on the show. Yeah, I believe so. And and
Speaker 1: we're having Benny on for good reason. New film out
Speaker 1: directed by you, I Am the Revolution, which is gonna
Speaker 1: premiere November in New York City at Chelsea UH seven
Speaker 1: thirty and you can check out tickets for that at
Speaker 1: doc NYC dot net. It's going to be at Synopolis,
Speaker 1: Chelsea Thursday. Nom I'll be there. You'll be there, and
Speaker 1: of course you the director and the producers of the
Speaker 1: film as well, right so, yeah, Well the crew is
Speaker 1: going to be there, Oh, not all of it, all
Speaker 1: of them, but most of the crew. Yeah. So so
Speaker 1: the cinematographers who came with me to Syria and Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: they will be their second camera to the producers and
Speaker 1: the editor the almost our So let's get into the
Speaker 1: background of the film itself. I mean it follows three
Speaker 1: women in the Middle East, and you know, their their
Speaker 1: struggle for equality, which is very much different than the
Speaker 1: struggle for equality here in America or Europe. It's it's
Speaker 1: a lot more drastic of course, the laws against them.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the idea was to challenge the media mainstream
Speaker 1: narrative about women in the Middle East that you often
Speaker 1: see them, you know, veiled, crying maybe in like refugee
Speaker 1: camps with the dozens of children around them, all dirty,
Speaker 1: and then traveling you know, for the past four years,
Speaker 1: for five years in the area, I noticed that that
Speaker 1: wasn't really the whole truth. I mean, this is part
Speaker 1: of reality, but there is also another side of the
Speaker 1: co in which was like strong woman trying you know,
Speaker 1: to fight back and and struggle for gender equality in
Speaker 1: the region in the midst of war. So you know,
Speaker 1: this is how we got to think about if the film.
Speaker 1: And then of course the fun party is to go
Speaker 1: shoot and go on the ground and and there we
Speaker 1: found we followed three women, as you said, one in Syria,
Speaker 1: which is in Rajaba. So the Kurdish area of Syria
Speaker 1: and raj Da flat is the main commander for the
Speaker 1: Raka operations. So she led sixty thou and woman to
Speaker 1: conquer the capital of the so called Islamic State. And
Speaker 1: now she's finishing up the job in Syria, where you know,
Speaker 1: you have a little like tasks around the country in
Speaker 1: which is is still is still there, like one of
Speaker 1: the last one is there a zor and that the
Speaker 1: second woman is an Iraqi woman and she sorry. She
Speaker 1: left Iraq in nine ninety two to escape the regime
Speaker 1: of Saddam Hussein. She moved to Canada and she finished
Speaker 1: the studies there. She did n emy in architecture. She
Speaker 1: started working, but there was something really off and she
Speaker 1: kind of missed home and she wanted to do something
Speaker 1: with the country. So in two thousand and two, while
Speaker 1: you know, in America there were talks about invading Iraq,
Speaker 1: she started receiving colds so from bag that's saying that
Speaker 1: women working up down the streets and then sold to
Speaker 1: human traffickers or prostitution rings and so on. So she
Speaker 1: decided to you know, write down the constitution of of
Speaker 1: her organization and and fled back on June a few
Speaker 1: months after the invasion, and so she started working over
Speaker 1: there and she set up like now she has like
Speaker 1: ten underground shelter underground because they key laws do not
Speaker 1: shield these these shelters for women escaping violence, of thinking
Speaker 1: that the woman should be always with a male relative.
Speaker 1: And so she's fighting also that part and in the
Speaker 1: meantime she receives a woman escaping violence. Honor killing. Honor
Speaker 1: killing is that practice very still much on in Iraq,
Speaker 1: in which you know, the male relatives are have to
Speaker 1: protect the honor of the family and if they cut
Speaker 1: the woman with the compromise situation, or even if they
Speaker 1: are violated, raped by whoever, or sometimes even just a
Speaker 1: rumor is enough. Sometimes a rumor is enough exactly. So
Speaker 1: they had to restore the hunter. And how do they
Speaker 1: do that. They basically threw them from a cliff and
Speaker 1: then cut off the left palm and put it on
Speaker 1: the house and hang it on the house, on the
Speaker 1: door of the house where in the family lives, in
Speaker 1: order to say it's that is how you restore the honor.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, I know, but still now hundreds of bodies
Speaker 1: are unclaimed in the morgues, you know, in Baghdad and
Speaker 1: stuff that that have that kind of signature of honor
Speaker 1: killing signature. The work of Viennar. Her name is or Muhammad.
Speaker 1: It's very important because it's not just a hub that
Speaker 1: provides services to this woman, but the idea is to
Speaker 1: empower them. So through the organization they have classes, they
Speaker 1: have you know, like English classes, literacy, literacy courses and
Speaker 1: those kinds of things, and and then for them to
Speaker 1: be ready and help other women in their same conditions.
Speaker 1: And then the third one is Saliga Far. She is
Speaker 1: a politician, first woman spoke person of the Solidarity Party
Speaker 1: of Afghanistan Hambastagi, the only secular party in Afghanistan, and
Speaker 1: she goes around I think, you know, the Afghanistan part
Speaker 1: is one that surprised me the most, not just for
Speaker 1: the conditions, but for the for the condition and how
Speaker 1: hard this woman need to fight back. You know you
Speaker 1: I am sorry to say, but America went in Afghanistan
Speaker 1: claiming they would liberate woman. Today in two thousand and seventeen,
Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen years later, you know of women actually experienced
Speaker 1: violence in their lifetime and just fourteen percent one four
Speaker 1: can actually read them right, So it's a very It's
Speaker 1: a crazy, crazy situation also because you know, you have
Speaker 1: to fight with a very kind of patriarchal society, very
Speaker 1: narrow minded part and anyway, and Sally, it goes around
Speaker 1: Afghanistan even where you know, the government doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: isn't able to reach and help women and not just
Speaker 1: women but everyone basically too. You know from that they
Speaker 1: want water courses, schools. It is a very very difficult situation.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know in your interests that you know
Speaker 1: it's a very different kind of struggle. But you also
Speaker 1: have to think that that kind of struggle Western and
Speaker 1: European woman they already went through that because you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't this year is a hundred years the Suffragetts
Speaker 1: in which you know, they they wanted the voting rights
Speaker 1: for women. So it's like a kind of a path
Speaker 1: I mean, it's more than that even, I mean, we
Speaker 1: we went through that, not a hundred years ago. We
Speaker 1: went through you know, five hundred years ago, not five
Speaker 1: hundred I'm sorry, Jack, like Afghanistan, Like when was the
Speaker 1: last time you know, the Western world was in that
Speaker 1: sort of state. Actually, for I'm talking about women's right.
Speaker 1: You know, I gave the now in Afghanistan woman can vote.
Speaker 1: Like up to eight years ago, in a lot of
Speaker 1: countries women couldn't vote. So up until recently, we had
Speaker 1: things like it was actually legal to beat your wife
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago in America exactly. And we're also
Speaker 1: going to get into later on Saudi Arabia. But the
Speaker 1: recent right for women to drive in Saudi Arabia, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel that that is a little bit of pr
Speaker 1: PR propaganda for the West in order to musquerade a
Speaker 1: different kind of regime, because you know, I was reading
Speaker 1: actually yesterday about woman who drove, who dared to drove
Speaker 1: around Saudi Arabia suddenly disappeared. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, for restance, it's not a question what the
Speaker 1: law says is a question. Like let's say a woman
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan starts driving tomorrow in Kabbo. She can't. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying she can't, but she will be so much
Speaker 1: arrousted from all the drivers around that she will think
Speaker 1: twice point of the year, why you do it? Why
Speaker 1: even do it make a good Instagram video? Though? Right?
Speaker 1: A woman driving like like the Saudi Arabia, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: these women are taking their veils off and driving cars.
Speaker 1: You know, I decided to our security team in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're tired, don't worry. I can drive,
Speaker 1: because I drove in Syria and they were like no no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, this is not possible here. You can't. Literally
Speaker 1: you can't. So how did you come in contact with
Speaker 1: these three particular women? Um So? I met yan Or
Speaker 1: Mohammed in two thousand and fifteen when she was in
Speaker 1: New York to speak at a security council at the
Speaker 1: u N and I was fascinated straight away in our
Speaker 1: you know, talking interview, actually wrote an article about her,
Speaker 1: and then you know, the about her work. She described
Speaker 1: these shelters as she described, you know, the work that
Speaker 1: they do in Baghdad. And so this is how I
Speaker 1: met her and rujdaf a lot. I knew about her
Speaker 1: because you know, um traveling in the region for work
Speaker 1: as a journal for as a journalist, that I knew
Speaker 1: about her. And then also Joey Lawrence that the person
Speaker 1: knew had on the podcast stayed with her for photographer, yes,
Speaker 1: for a photographer, amazing photographer, and he talked to me
Speaker 1: about her and saying she was the real deal. And
Speaker 1: he was right. She is the real deal. She's very shy.
Speaker 1: Nobody really knows about her background so much for reasons
Speaker 1: that we can get into. But um, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I was fascinated by this person who was on the
Speaker 1: forefront and fighting isis, but gave so little interviews or
Speaker 1: never really talked about her life and what she's doing.
Speaker 1: So this is why I selected her and the third one. Actually,
Speaker 1: the Kurds told me about Ambassadi first and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, we know about this woman, about Saliga far,
Speaker 1: you should look into her. So we started skype skype
Speaker 1: conversations to understand, you know, what really she was doing,
Speaker 1: because I tend to prep all my subjects before, of course,
Speaker 1: and to understand who they are and if they're real,
Speaker 1: if it's propaganda and whatever. And she is amazing, she's incredible,
Speaker 1: and she has no fear whatsoever. She's ready to sacrifice
Speaker 1: her personal life and she does sacrifice her personal life
Speaker 1: every day. And and so we left. I also assume
Speaker 1: being on film and being a part of a documentary,
Speaker 1: there is not They don't see it as like a
Speaker 1: glamorous thing. I want to become famous or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I think if anything, they'd prefer to go under the radar.
Speaker 1: So where any of the women were walctant to be
Speaker 1: a part of a film, I think that there is
Speaker 1: a security issue that we shouldn't, you know, overlook, because
Speaker 1: it's very iportant, especially for someone like yan R or
Speaker 1: Silly that they're not technically at war or although they
Speaker 1: are yours organization to said before it was like a
Speaker 1: semi clandestine organization because it's illegal to operate to run
Speaker 1: winning shelters in Iraq. Yes, exactly, but they also have
Speaker 1: other projects and stuff, So there I wouldn't say, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a reluctancy. And that's start in the
Speaker 1: fact that they didn't want to be on camera, but
Speaker 1: also you have to bear in money. It's very different
Speaker 1: to be on camera for a documentary than for you know,
Speaker 1: a news piece. Because we stayed with them for a
Speaker 1: long time. That means waking up every day together, eating
Speaker 1: every meal together, you know, be filmed all the times,
Speaker 1: and you can see the differences when you start filming
Speaker 1: somebody and then at the end of the shooting like
Speaker 1: two or three weeks later, depends because they have to
Speaker 1: get used of the camera. So this you know, it
Speaker 1: was an important part of my job is to make
Speaker 1: sure that they were at easy. You know, they weren't
Speaker 1: saying stuff just for the camera. And one trick is
Speaker 1: to always have the camera out so they don't distinct
Speaker 1: anymore when it is recording and when is not. But
Speaker 1: I think that another reluctant, you know, and the people
Speaker 1: around the minor characters of the film, so the woman
Speaker 1: that are helping, you know, the protagonists, and the community
Speaker 1: woman that they created around themselves, they were a little
Speaker 1: bit wary and scared. You know. It's like, especially in Iraq,
Speaker 1: there were women who escaped their families and stuff, and
Speaker 1: they said to me, I can't be on camera because
Speaker 1: if my parents or my family see me, family sees me,
Speaker 1: then you know they will look for me and they
Speaker 1: will try to kill me. So you know, you have
Speaker 1: to be very very careful when you should, like you know,
Speaker 1: delicate and sensitive subjects like them. The thing too, I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about, was, um, you know, this
Speaker 1: is three countries, three different languages. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: kind of a cross cultural piece that from my perspective,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, but I mean I don't see that
Speaker 1: sort of work attempted. It's it's very ambitious in that sense.
Speaker 1: Indeed it is. You know, we'll see what the critics
Speaker 1: say about the film. But initially it was Iraq, Syria
Speaker 1: and Smalia. But then you know, the more I talked
Speaker 1: about it, you know, of course it took me about
Speaker 1: more than two years to do finish, right, you know,
Speaker 1: the documentary, which is actually quite fast for a documentary,
Speaker 1: and especially also with the language barrier the translations. I
Speaker 1: mean you're translating, as he said, I believe what three
Speaker 1: different languages a right more actually because you have arm
Speaker 1: Arabic Kurdish, two different kinds of Kurdish. Then you have
Speaker 1: passed to your Daddy, which are different language is and
Speaker 1: then well you have English is so English, so it's
Speaker 1: like five different languages. So did you have to bring
Speaker 1: in several translators for the editing? Yes, yes, for the
Speaker 1: but the editing is you know, I think that your
Speaker 1: question was more related on you know, like why these
Speaker 1: three country kind of thing? Well, I mean, yeah, you
Speaker 1: could answer that question, but also just it just strikes
Speaker 1: me as something that's not often done because of the
Speaker 1: language barrier um and the cultural barrier um. No, it's
Speaker 1: a very ambitious project also because you know, having a
Speaker 1: film crew in these three countries that are conflict areas.
Speaker 1: So with all the problem the problems that you face
Speaker 1: when you travel, and you know very well when you
Speaker 1: travel in those regions, you have to be careful, you
Speaker 1: have to prepare yourself. You know, there is a whole
Speaker 1: you know, tip sheet that you should follow for you
Speaker 1: not just for your own protection, but for the group protection.
Speaker 1: So that was you know, usually documentary they follow one person.
Speaker 1: This is how documentaries are done what I've tried to
Speaker 1: do in a way, it's a bridge between the journalistic
Speaker 1: world and the documentary and cinema because the three the
Speaker 1: number three is usually when you go to like journalism
Speaker 1: school or even in your work, your editor even novels
Speaker 1: and things at the beginning of middle and an end,
Speaker 1: you know, story editor would always ask you, you know,
Speaker 1: who are your sources and and if you have three
Speaker 1: people saying the same thing, that means you can write
Speaker 1: about it. So this is the idea behind the three woman.
Speaker 1: The three woman is three d very different perspective because
Speaker 1: you know, the characters are very different. So one is
Speaker 1: a general while the commander of general military. The second
Speaker 1: one is an activist and the third one is a politician.
Speaker 1: So is how do you can you see? You know,
Speaker 1: it's like there are different ways is to do the
Speaker 1: same thing, to achieve try to achieve the same things,
Speaker 1: which is gender equality, feminist revolution in those countries. And
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting to challenge the idea of this,
Speaker 1: you know, poor woman in these three countries that have
Speaker 1: so many similarities in so many different ways, what does
Speaker 1: it mean? You know, it's like you have US intervention
Speaker 1: in the three of them, you have eyes and terrorism
Speaker 1: in the three all of three. You know you have
Speaker 1: If you look at the ranking of international ranking about
Speaker 1: you know, what are the worst places to be a woman?
Speaker 1: Iraxia and Afghanistan are there and they are always on
Speaker 1: the top list. So this is in Pakistan probably way
Speaker 1: up there. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia not a
Speaker 1: man is still there, but not as that they should be. Now.
Speaker 1: India as reached number one lately because of the attacks,
Speaker 1: because of the rape, because of many different things, people
Speaker 1: are becoming more aware and get more press coverage. Absolutely, yes,
Speaker 1: for Pakistan, you hear about that same Wahabis active Islam
Speaker 1: that you were talking about earlier when getting acids their
Speaker 1: own faces, and you know, yeah, it's all coming from
Speaker 1: you know, the same Somalia, you have some African countries.
Speaker 1: It's not that everything's great, you know, but this was
Speaker 1: the thought of it. Now, you know, it is a
Speaker 1: very ambitious project for that reason, because we traveled in
Speaker 1: these three countries, and also of course these challenges came
Speaker 1: up in the editing as well. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to give it too much away, but you know,
Speaker 1: the story intertwined and with one another, and it's about feminist,
Speaker 1: feminist revolution and no matter where it is, you know, Rosia, Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: that's what the film is about. I think some of
Speaker 1: the footage itself, even beyond the story of these three people,
Speaker 1: there's the footage that, particularly out of afghan A standards Syria,
Speaker 1: is just mind boggling. It looks like you're on an
Speaker 1: alien planet. I think people will be pretty interested to
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, also because it's like you don't see
Speaker 1: that kind of footage, you know. It's like there is
Speaker 1: a scene in which Slide which is one of my
Speaker 1: personal favorite scene, as she is talking to a group
Speaker 1: of like dozens women and they're all wearing perka and
Speaker 1: they want They're saying, you know, our sons can go
Speaker 1: to school, but our daughters know, we want them to
Speaker 1: go to school. We know the school is you know,
Speaker 1: the first step to get equality, to have a freer life,
Speaker 1: you know, and the men prevent them to go to school.
Speaker 1: And it's very interesting, at least from my point of
Speaker 1: view to see you know, from both um from the
Speaker 1: like a plot point of view, and also from an
Speaker 1: image wise. It's something that you don't see very often
Speaker 1: at all. You know. I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: about this, and it's a little bit off topic, but
Speaker 1: because you're mentioning the burka and stuff like that, I'm
Speaker 1: wondering your take on how the US has handled um
Speaker 1: Muslim immigration and equality as opposed to Europe. You know,
Speaker 1: in America here in New York City see you see
Speaker 1: women in the streets wearing Burker's and it's a but
Speaker 1: you have. I have absolutely when I lived in Philadelphia
Speaker 1: see it all the time. But there's been times in
Speaker 1: the subway I've seen it. Yes, I've never seen a
Speaker 1: woman wearing and when I was in Michigan I saw
Speaker 1: it a lot. But you know, I have I've seen
Speaker 1: like the heijib the job. Yeah, but I've seen I've
Speaker 1: seen full burka definitely a handful of times in New
Speaker 1: York City. I've seen people with their kids. And what
Speaker 1: do you mean by b is the blue? Is the
Speaker 1: blue one? Everything? You can everything. Saudi Arabia they were
Speaker 1: the big black. But that's another thing that's not the
Speaker 1: women wearing. But it's not the same when you seeing
Speaker 1: about where you could barely see anything the eyes and
Speaker 1: I know there's there's typically different traditional you know as fire.
Speaker 1: But my point being more than a job, you're not
Speaker 1: seeing the woman's face. I see. I've seen it many times.
Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised you guys, haven't you know I've seen Okay,
Speaker 1: so when you say when you said to me, burke,
Speaker 1: I've never seen a burka is a typical light blue
Speaker 1: and it's worth just in Afghanistan usually because it's the
Speaker 1: black baya or the ny Cub. Yes, I saw a
Speaker 1: woman in Ni Cub, I saw a woman in nic Cub.
Speaker 1: In London, I saw a woman in Nick. But you know,
Speaker 1: this is a small minority that wear that. My point being,
Speaker 1: though in America you have the freedom to do so,
Speaker 1: there's been some debate over whether you can wear one
Speaker 1: in the driver's license photo UM and state by state
Speaker 1: they've had different laws on this. Certain states have tried
Speaker 1: to ban women wearing them because there have been women
Speaker 1: involved in criminality who you know in a licensed photo,
Speaker 1: you can't tell who they are at all. So I
Speaker 1: understand that debate. However, we're not having the same debate
Speaker 1: as in parts of Europe where they're talking about literally
Speaker 1: banning the burka. I'm wondering, just from a feminist perspective, like,
Speaker 1: how do you think this type of thing should be handled?
Speaker 1: Are you okay with the country saying we want to
Speaker 1: ban the burka? This is a very literary question that
Speaker 1: you're asking me. So I think you know, the handling
Speaker 1: of immigration in the US it's better than other places.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to try to compromise on several
Speaker 1: different issues. Personally, I rather I don't like those nika hijab, Well,
Speaker 1: the hijab whatever, it doesn't really matter to me because
Speaker 1: it's just really the hair, and it's sure, and there's
Speaker 1: women I've talked to, you know, that worked with me
Speaker 1: when I was over it. Serious at other places that
Speaker 1: do wear the job and by no means if you
Speaker 1: talk to them, are they are they what people would
Speaker 1: consider the stereotypical traditional Muslim women. Some of them drink,
Speaker 1: some of them had sex, you know primarily and goodness no, yeah,
Speaker 1: and yet that you know, and I've spoken to these
Speaker 1: women and some of them just say, like I believe
Speaker 1: in the idea of modesty, and you know, I just
Speaker 1: I like this certain thing. But do I follow everything
Speaker 1: in the Koran? Absolutely not. So I actually see their
Speaker 1: job is like a very different thing than you know,
Speaker 1: covering the entire face. It's like nuns. You know, nuns,
Speaker 1: they just cover their hair in a way. It's not
Speaker 1: really the same thing, but you know, the concept is
Speaker 1: very similar. Also, you know, in Christian culture until really recently,
Speaker 1: meaning years ago, you and even now if you go
Speaker 1: to southern Italy, they they they actually wear a black veil,
Speaker 1: you know, to go to church. So you know, every
Speaker 1: every single religion has a different kind of Funny that
Speaker 1: you mentioned that because like I see like the memes
Speaker 1: on social media about you know, showing like side by
Speaker 1: side and like traditional Islamic culture and it's a woman
Speaker 1: wearing the burka traditional Italian culture, and it's a woman
Speaker 1: wearing like a bikini, and it's like, no, that's not
Speaker 1: really traditional Italian propaganda. If you have to, like if
Speaker 1: you go back and like actually read the history of
Speaker 1: Italy and of Europe, that's not traditionally dress. Italy is
Speaker 1: a place that had until really recently, meaning forty years ago,
Speaker 1: what they're called the wedlock, you know, for someone got raped,
Speaker 1: you know, they would force her to marry the thunder. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like, we shouldn't think of
Speaker 1: ourselves as too much forward compared to some of the places,
Speaker 1: because you know, traditional traditions come from a very kind
Speaker 1: of segregated perspective, especially between men and women. But we've
Speaker 1: evolved relatively quickly compared to these other cultures. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's this is off topic from the feminist stuff,
Speaker 1: but I was actually watching on YouTube. I don't even
Speaker 1: remember how I came across it, but it's just crazy
Speaker 1: to me to think, like in my grandparents time, there
Speaker 1: was a time you would turn on the TV and
Speaker 1: it was like Amos and Andy and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: these white people in black face imitating black actors because
Speaker 1: Broadway didn't want black actors because it would like make
Speaker 1: white people in the theater uncomfortable to see a black
Speaker 1: person acting, and it's it is insane to think like
Speaker 1: this was not that long ago. No, it wasn't. And
Speaker 1: you know, and if you're think in the sixties, you know,
Speaker 1: all the civil rights movement and you know, black people
Speaker 1: wanting to go to university, to school and stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: all these you know, like the protesters, the ones that
Speaker 1: wanted to segregated America. They're still here around well and live.
Speaker 1: You know, so Russell barks not that long ago. You know,
Speaker 1: people like that. So we should be very careful about
Speaker 1: when we we judge out of culture in that sense,
Speaker 1: because we have our own fault. Of course, it's work
Speaker 1: in progress. So to go back to your question, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like for me, I wish, you know, it would
Speaker 1: be an individual choice to where those garments, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: often is not. That is my problem with Nika Baya
Speaker 1: and that, you know, it's like if it is a
Speaker 1: woman choice and thinking, you know, I want to be this, this, this,
Speaker 1: and that. I don't know why that's a different question.
Speaker 1: In the Western world. I mean, there's this big debate
Speaker 1: I think, or not even a debate, but there's this
Speaker 1: theme within feminism, that it's institutional, it's a social construct. Um,
Speaker 1: the patriarchy itself being a social construct. I mean, aren't
Speaker 1: these women essentially victims of this social construct and that
Speaker 1: they've been generationally conditioned to where this sort of uh
Speaker 1: um whatever kind of garment. It is, absolutely, but I
Speaker 1: can tell you the opposite argument of this. You know,
Speaker 1: like when you see children, literally children dressed up like
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about girls, but you know, dressed
Speaker 1: up as beauty page and a beauty queen and you know,
Speaker 1: exploiting their bodies in a way. You know, it's the
Speaker 1: other side of it. You have the opposite that's not
Speaker 1: very common. But but I mean, like America, you have
Speaker 1: like beauty pudgeants for like five six and it's glamorized.
Speaker 1: You know this like Honey Boo Boo show that was
Speaker 1: like a giant It's like, that's like a creepy subculture
Speaker 1: where all these like middle aged guys are in the
Speaker 1: audience like breathing heavy. It's horrible. Yeah, it is terrible,
Speaker 1: and I actually do think you know, it would be
Speaker 1: a whole another topic, but like the over sexualization of
Speaker 1: children in America, it definitely is a problem. Like there's
Speaker 1: these pop stars who come out there like our fourteen
Speaker 1: and they have them barely wearing anything, you know, and
Speaker 1: then people are waiting for them to become eighteen. It
Speaker 1: is very creepy. It's very strange. There is a very
Speaker 1: kind of This is one of the first documentary is
Speaker 1: so here in New York. Let me the name is
Speaker 1: keeping Now and it's this journalist to just add a daughter,
Speaker 1: and she started looking at the media and the social
Speaker 1: construct around you know, girls, and what they should look like,
Speaker 1: they how they should you know, present themselves, how they
Speaker 1: should in generally teret oh my god, trying to conform
Speaker 1: the way they look. And this put a lot of
Speaker 1: pressures pressure on girls. And this is why you have
Speaker 1: anoretia blimia, because they don't like themselves, so they don't think,
Speaker 1: you know, they're beautiful enough to have a success. And
Speaker 1: I think it's a very very well done documentary that
Speaker 1: analyzes how the media pushes the stereotype of how a
Speaker 1: woman looks like. It's also worth mentioning though, that you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of girls get that or young women get
Speaker 1: that impression from the fashion industry and from the media
Speaker 1: and from periodicals and media that is not necessarily produced
Speaker 1: by heterosexual men. That that size zero model is not
Speaker 1: it's not something that the average man is into. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's this odd um, this odd position that you know,
Speaker 1: women are are like given this, uh, this media that
Speaker 1: says that this is what you're supposed to look like.
Speaker 1: But that's not even something that I think most men
Speaker 1: find desirable. I don't know about that. I think it
Speaker 1: depends and it it depends on a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, this is the idea that you're giving to
Speaker 1: younger generations that they should look like I'm making it
Speaker 1: up gel otherwise that they're not worth it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting though we're living in a weird time where
Speaker 1: that look is glamorized. And then also because of like
Speaker 1: the Kim Kardashian Nicki Minaj, like extreme plastic surgery of
Speaker 1: getting a giant s that's also glamorized, and they're both
Speaker 1: completely unrealistic for the average women, average woman, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of just bizarre that that, you know,
Speaker 1: the average natural woman this is. You know, you just
Speaker 1: have these two extremes of the woman who's like eighty
Speaker 1: pounds for the woman like Kim Kardashian has blatantly done,
Speaker 1: you know, massive amounts of plastic surgery too. Especially your
Speaker 1: sister doesn't even look like you know, who's a white
Speaker 1: woman who looks more like her sister, who is um,
Speaker 1: you know, Armenian and uh and the father of kard well,
Speaker 1: Kardashian was Armenian. Either way, the the younger sister has
Speaker 1: two white parents, you know what I mean, So she
Speaker 1: shouldn't look like her sister, but she's gotten so much
Speaker 1: plastic surgery that they almost look identical. Like It's just,
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty crazy. I know we're going like
Speaker 1: way off topic here. Also I don't know the Kardashian
Speaker 1: that well, so I don't know what are you watching? Yeah, exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: You know what else I wanted to ask you about, um,
Speaker 1: besides this film is you recently did a Ted talk
Speaker 1: in Milan and Milan and I wanted to hear all
Speaker 1: about that experience and what you actually spoke about because
Speaker 1: it was in Italian, correct, Yeah, it was, It's a
Speaker 1: Ted act and in it was a great opportunity, honestly,
Speaker 1: And I talked about the film, you know, and more
Speaker 1: or less what we covered in fifteen minutes I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that most of the listeners are familiar with
Speaker 1: what the Ted talk is. But you know, you have
Speaker 1: a four month and you have to stay within that
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and seventeen eighteen top you know, yeah, you can.
Speaker 1: You have a couple of minutes that you can go on.
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure. How long was mine, Probably sixteen
Speaker 1: so and it was in this theater in the middle
Speaker 1: of Milan, and one thousand, five hundred and fifty people participated.
Speaker 1: I never talked in front of so many people in
Speaker 1: my life. I closed the day, which was great, Which
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, it was very nice, although you know,
Speaker 1: waiting around the whole day for you to go up
Speaker 1: on stage it's not the greatest. Especially you know, people
Speaker 1: who know at not realize about me. But I really
Speaker 1: do not like to be in the spotlight so much.
Speaker 1: This is why I like radio, and this is why
Speaker 1: I like coming and hang out with you guys, because
Speaker 1: we're here just chatting amongst us and everything. You say.
Speaker 1: Now you are the star of the family, Jack, it's
Speaker 1: not me so anyway. That said before, it's like a
Speaker 1: shy person's medium though, because I've spoken front of people
Speaker 1: and extremely uncomfortable, but I am comfortable doing this. I
Speaker 1: know what you mean exactly. So you know, I had
Speaker 1: to prepare a lot. I had one coach and with
Speaker 1: whom I did rehearsal, you know, because sometimes people go
Speaker 1: on stage and they freeze, and you don't want to happen.
Speaker 1: You don't want that to happen, you know, because you
Speaker 1: have this opportunity and that's it. It's not that you
Speaker 1: can remake it and stuff and and so we worked
Speaker 1: a lot and at the end, you know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I woke up and say, I
Speaker 1: walked up on stage and I kind of black. I
Speaker 1: don't remember anything. I know that I talked and I spoke,
Speaker 1: and I can and now I'm gonna say a very
Speaker 1: cute thing because the only time I stumbled, actually twice,
Speaker 1: but the first one is because I saw my mom
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I got all very excited
Speaker 1: about it, so I couldn't find my words anymore, and
Speaker 1: then I'd reconcentrate. But you know, at the end, it
Speaker 1: was it was great. It was a great experience, a
Speaker 1: lot of different emotions. But funny enough, when I finished
Speaker 1: the talk about this three amazing woman about the film
Speaker 1: and everything else. This really young guy walks up to me,
Speaker 1: around to me and say, you know, I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you, and I said, yes, sure, it's like
Speaker 1: nineteen was nineteen And he said, you know, I'm having
Speaker 1: this huge debate with my sister about woman staying in
Speaker 1: the kitchen. And I was like, what do you mean
Speaker 1: Is it so bad for a woman to be in
Speaker 1: the kitchen? And I was puzzled by the question for
Speaker 1: such a young man, you know, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: it's not a bad thing, per se, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's but it has to be again, their own choice.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't have anything you know against housewives
Speaker 1: of a woman, you know that to take care of
Speaker 1: the house and the family and stuff, but it has
Speaker 1: to be their own choice. Sometimes not most of the times.
Speaker 1: Now it's not their own choice. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: again it's a difficult topic. Some women want to wear
Speaker 1: pearls and vacuum Benny, you you actually, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Jack and I off air had a whole
Speaker 1: discussion about the stereotype of like the men who's you know,
Speaker 1: the single father who's taking care of their kid and
Speaker 1: doesn't have a job. And you know, for some reason,
Speaker 1: it is this whole double standard. If you're a man
Speaker 1: with a kid who doesn't work and maybe your wife
Speaker 1: works or something, you're looked at as like a lazy bone,
Speaker 1: and it is. He was like, I'm comfortable with it.
Speaker 1: I'll stay at home, take care of the kids. You
Speaker 1: work on documentary. Yeah, we could do that, but you
Speaker 1: have too vacuum better otherwise it doesn't work. The other
Speaker 1: other interesting, I think it's a stereotype. Um, there's there's
Speaker 1: like this image people have in their mind about women
Speaker 1: in the military, particularly these women now who are increasingly
Speaker 1: wanting to go into special operations units. And I was
Speaker 1: reading an article about a young woman I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: can't remember her name. Saw the picture like tatted up.
Speaker 1: She looks like a pirate. And I mean that as
Speaker 1: a compliment. She looks like a bad She has like
Speaker 1: pirate tattoos on her chest because she's wearing like a
Speaker 1: bikini in this photo of her and her husband has
Speaker 1: all these tattoos and everything. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of Americans have this vision in their mind of like
Speaker 1: of like the g I Jane, who like she's gonna
Speaker 1: be soft and feminine and cute and um, but also
Speaker 1: be strong and empower to blah blah blah. And I'm like, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: When women who go into like become rangers and navies,
Speaker 1: seals and green berets and in this case is a
Speaker 1: mar Sock Marine Special Operations, they're gonna be like tough,
Speaker 1: badass women. They're not going to be cute. See you know,
Speaker 1: you know this typical version of feminists, like they're gonna
Speaker 1: look more and act more like guys, like the behavior
Speaker 1: we associate with men, because it's that's the environment. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also you know it's like it's if I would
Speaker 1: have loved not that that's actually untrue. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you put me into ranger school right now, I
Speaker 1: think I'll fail after two hours maybe maybe one. Can
Speaker 1: you do pull up spending? No? I can't. Okay, you won't.
Speaker 1: You won't make it past the BT test. I'm sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can run, but not that much. Also, am a
Speaker 1: certain age now, so I cannot compete with twenty year
Speaker 1: or something guys and girls. But you know, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. And sometimes you know, woman who
Speaker 1: went who want to go into ranger school. Let's have
Speaker 1: schools or whatever. It's like they are really mindset on that,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you know, physically, they're very prepared
Speaker 1: and if they're not, they would not make it through
Speaker 1: the p T task. Not to mention, I think this
Speaker 1: is a discussion that's been had on the podcast before.
Speaker 1: But aren't there certain you know, branches of Special Operations
Speaker 1: where it's kind of like they look the other way
Speaker 1: if you're on steroids and that type of thing. And
Speaker 1: there's probably there's probably guys in SF i'd say across
Speaker 1: the board they kind of look the other way. So
Speaker 1: if you have a woman in Special Operations who's taking steroids,
Speaker 1: in a way, as crazy as it sounds, they're almost
Speaker 1: slightly transitioning to becoming a man because you're putting male
Speaker 1: hormones in yourself. That's why, you know, not to be
Speaker 1: graphic here, but like the women's you know, guaturius and
Speaker 1: large and stuff like that when they're on steroids, because
Speaker 1: they're becoming more manly. So, I mean, if you put
Speaker 1: a woman on steroids that looks like you know, Christine
Speaker 1: chris Cyborg from UFCO, well, the military does not put
Speaker 1: women on steroids, but if they choose to be and
Speaker 1: they choose to go through Ander school. I don't think
Speaker 1: that they want to become a Mormon. I think they
Speaker 1: won't just want to become stronger and compete better. But
Speaker 1: but in effect they do become more manly because they
Speaker 1: start growing more hair. I mean, it's they're putting male
Speaker 1: hormones in their system. I also don't know. I've never
Speaker 1: used steroids. I mean there's clearly I mean there's there's
Speaker 1: uh tons of guys using it, um, and part of
Speaker 1: it is um. I'm more it's not so much operationally honest,
Speaker 1: to just be completely frank about, I think it has
Speaker 1: more to do with vanity than that there's an operational necessity.
Speaker 1: I mean, I went through it. I was never on
Speaker 1: steroids because we're smaller than I am. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's just safe to say if you're a woman
Speaker 1: on steroids, would be easier to get through ranges. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure. It also depends on the specifics
Speaker 1: on what type of steroids you're using. Uh. And that's
Speaker 1: what we've said on the pot or I've said on
Speaker 1: the podcast before. It's like, I think that the military
Speaker 1: should do more research arch into it and figure out
Speaker 1: what are like the medically safe, responsible ways to use
Speaker 1: steroids and maybe look at that like institutionalizing it rather
Speaker 1: than have on all these people do it illegally, and
Speaker 1: some people really fuck themselves up. I mean they sucked
Speaker 1: their bodies up because they're doing there. Um, it's not
Speaker 1: medically supervised. And here's the thing. If you're talking about
Speaker 1: having transgenders in the military, that involves putting female or
Speaker 1: male hormones into your system, which is the exact same
Speaker 1: thing as steroids, but done for a completely different reason.
Speaker 1: Why do you have this fascination with woman on steroid
Speaker 1: can because you know the reason being if you're a
Speaker 1: woman going through a ranger school, going through buds, I
Speaker 1: would think it would be a huge edge over a
Speaker 1: natural woman. It's just something I've thought about. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it depends on which kind of woman. I mean,
Speaker 1: take my sister. My sister, she's very strong, she's way
Speaker 1: taller than I am. She did all her life kickboxing
Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't think you know that she would
Speaker 1: have at the time now because now she had two
Speaker 1: children and everything, so much need of steroid. I love
Speaker 1: how this just goes off as a recording, probably a
Speaker 1: probably some fire geral thing. But anyway, you keep talking
Speaker 1: at all, right, so anyway, it doesn't matter the woman,
Speaker 1: you know that if but if she did take stars
Speaker 1: on top of that, she would have been at edge.
Speaker 1: That's why you know, powerlifters and that type of thing.
Speaker 1: And and you know, if if you talk about you
Speaker 1: know we've had on the podcast before, Christian Beck, you know,
Speaker 1: Christian Beck going through buds compared to the average transgender man, woman,
Speaker 1: however you want to say it, Christian Beck, however you
Speaker 1: want to label this person is a massive person and
Speaker 1: is far stronger than you know myself or I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I honestly don't really care that much about
Speaker 1: the whole transgender thing in general. It's like point zero
Speaker 1: three percent of the population. The amount of them who
Speaker 1: are then going to go into the military is like
Speaker 1: so miniscule. I mean, you know, I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: it's not something i'd stress out so much. Yeah, now
Speaker 1: I hear you. It's if it's been addressed on the
Speaker 1: podcast before. Um okay, oh you know what I also
Speaker 1: want to ask you before we get into Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: As you mentioned a comic book he's working on. I
Speaker 1: had no idea that you're doing a spoiler here. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm writing a graphic novel with and if you get
Speaker 1: you into comic books or no, I know, not comic books,
Speaker 1: graphic novel. It's similar. I go to the comic book story,
Speaker 1: so fancy with her graphic novel. I mean it's a
Speaker 1: known fiction. You know, it's a little bit different. And
Speaker 1: you know, actually I'm my first graphic novel that I
Speaker 1: read it was Mouse. I don't know if you ever
Speaker 1: read it Mouse. I'm not a comic book guy, so no, Jack, Jack,
Speaker 1: I haven't read it. I remember it's a very beautiful
Speaker 1: it's about World War two and you know, the Holocaust
Speaker 1: specifically and anyway, and I always thought it was a
Speaker 1: great medium to tell his story or you know, to
Speaker 1: even a younger kind of generation. So the story um
Speaker 1: that we are writing downs of Islamta. She is a
Speaker 1: Moroccan woman who in a decided that she really wanted
Speaker 1: to go and study fashion design in London. But her
Speaker 1: parents from Morocco, they said to her, listen, the only
Speaker 1: way for you to go to London is to actually
Speaker 1: get married. Okay, fine, so she goes online. You know,
Speaker 1: they're kind of you know, Tinder or whatever. It's called
Speaker 1: Muslim dot net, which is um enough for dating a
Speaker 1: marriage within the Muslim world. And she meets online this
Speaker 1: guy called Hmmed originally Afghani but a British British citizen.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to give too much away, but
Speaker 1: you know, uh, they get married and they and Hammed
Speaker 1: said to her, listen, why don't we go for our
Speaker 1: honeymoon in Turkey. This was June July, and she said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: why not? You know, So they arrive in gadzen Tab,
Speaker 1: which is at the border within between Syria and and
Speaker 1: the Turkey, and there, without a word of explanation, he
Speaker 1: basically put her into a safe house of ISIS. So
Speaker 1: this nineteen year old girl she finds herself the first
Speaker 1: time that she goes out from Morocco, she finds in
Speaker 1: the Isis kind of safe housing gadzen Tab. At the time,
Speaker 1: really Isis wasn't that big, so they you know, nobody
Speaker 1: really knew about Isaac and especially her. So from that
Speaker 1: pe moment on they found they started. She started this
Speaker 1: journey within the Islamic sade and where she just tried
Speaker 1: to survive. And it's a good and his story so
Speaker 1: you know, she survives, she escaped, aped, and now she's
Speaker 1: back in Ushta. But it's it's about this who who's
Speaker 1: doing the illustration? Me? Really, I was like, I didn't
Speaker 1: know you're an ellust No, no, no no, I'm not an illustrator.
Speaker 1: I'm working with the Italian woman. She's based between Nino mainly,
Speaker 1: and she's great. She's the same one who did the
Speaker 1: flyer for our film. So she's a great illustrator. She's
Speaker 1: she's young, she's extremely talented, and I'm very excited to
Speaker 1: be working with her. Honestly, I would assume this is
Speaker 1: entirely different than any other medium you've done, and that
Speaker 1: it's like I wouldn't know the first thing about how
Speaker 1: to get a comic book distributed where people are gonna
Speaker 1: be able to buy it. You know, they're like, it's
Speaker 1: probably a tough thing to get into. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: it's mainly like any other books in a way, but
Speaker 1: you have like selected publishers that you'll just with the
Speaker 1: graphic novels and that kind of things, especially nonfiction. Um,
Speaker 1: it's a very this is the first time I'm doing
Speaker 1: something like that. It's not that different from a documentary
Speaker 1: because now we're we are writing the script, so on
Speaker 1: one side you have to imagine the drawings, the illustrations
Speaker 1: and then make it combine combine those with text. So
Speaker 1: it's not that different, but still a little bit. And
Speaker 1: the Italian and overall European comic book industry is totally
Speaker 1: different than in the United States, where like we put
Speaker 1: new comic books out every week. In Italy you have
Speaker 1: an artist who just works on his one comic book,
Speaker 1: like all year, his one hundred page graphic novel, and
Speaker 1: then it comes out, so it's like every every book
Speaker 1: they do has to be like a Grand Slam. So
Speaker 1: I don't know as much as you of comic books,
Speaker 1: but because comic is slightly different, I know what I
Speaker 1: read for the longest time, which was the Aboli Julia,
Speaker 1: those kind of weekly right, yeah, yeah, those are all weekly.
Speaker 1: And then you have graphic novels. So graphic novel I
Speaker 1: think kind of they in France they do a lot
Speaker 1: of graphics and different novels, and I think it started
Speaker 1: like with Again Mouse was one of the first graphic
Speaker 1: novel in that sense that tried to tell a very
Speaker 1: serious story like the Holocaust and illustrate and it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Check it out because it is a very very well
Speaker 1: done work. Obviously he is like super famous out out
Speaker 1: or and everything. But it's just very different. But just
Speaker 1: to give an example, you know, it's like in Italy
Speaker 1: what they think is a successful graphic novel when it's sold,
Speaker 1: because you know, numbers are extremely different. Three copy, that's crazy,
Speaker 1: It is crazy. This is to get back to the cost.
Speaker 1: But also because you have such a smuller you know,
Speaker 1: market that everything is slightly different. I was reading somewhere
Speaker 1: that Batman comes out every week, uh sells about thirty
Speaker 1: in the United State, and that's considered a small number,
Speaker 1: like for for a big comic book like that. Will
Speaker 1: this be distributed in the US or no? Now we're
Speaker 1: starting in Italy and then we'll see, okay, because I
Speaker 1: think it would be so cool if you know, I
Speaker 1: walk over to Midtown Comics with Jack and there's your comic.
Speaker 1: I would love to see that. Maybe not comic keeps
Speaker 1: staying comic graphic. Come on, words are important translating into English.
Speaker 1: I mean that one. I don't think it would be
Speaker 1: too hard. Oh well, let's proceed stuff, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: all right. The other thing that I wanted to get
Speaker 1: into was what's going on in Saudi Arabia Now. President
Speaker 1: Urdawan earlier today I believe, or it may have been
Speaker 1: yesterday of Turkey said that the murder of the journalist
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia, Jamal could Uh. I'm not saying his
Speaker 1: name right by the way, Kasai Kai. Either way, everybody
Speaker 1: knows who I'm talking about, the journalists in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: He's claiming that it was playing days in advance. Um.
Speaker 1: And we're trying to figure out how we're gonna handle
Speaker 1: this because as much as we read these horrible things
Speaker 1: coming out of Saudi Arabia, they are our allies in
Speaker 1: the US, and it's it's a very strange dynamic because
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that we're fighting where at
Speaker 1: least claiming to be fighting for an Iraq in Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: are the exact same things going on legally in Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: as we talked about before with driving things like that,
Speaker 1: do you do you want to start start? Um? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this whole thing. I wrote an article about
Speaker 1: it yesterday. But it's like this crazy, like slow role
Speaker 1: reality television show. They're turning it into where it's like
Speaker 1: every day a little new piece. There's a new episode,
Speaker 1: there's a new piece of micro content, you get another
Speaker 1: little piece of the mystery, the little story. It's it's
Speaker 1: so weird, and I mean, I think the government of
Speaker 1: Turkeys doing that initially, like they're playing this out as
Speaker 1: long as they can, and I think they're gonna Like
Speaker 1: yesterday the news was that a member of the Saudi
Speaker 1: embassy actually wore this guy's clothes and left and walked
Speaker 1: around Istanbul to make it look on security cameras as
Speaker 1: if the journalist had left, and you know, he he
Speaker 1: that he had left the embassy. Of course, there's a
Speaker 1: really amateurish attempt at a ruse um. But it's like
Speaker 1: there every day there's another little piece of information you get.
Speaker 1: So I think that this is absolutely and I think
Speaker 1: that Argon is doing that on purpose, also because I
Speaker 1: think that he's trying to put leverage on Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: So I think we need to make a couple of
Speaker 1: step backs about this because Turkey, Um, do you remember,
Speaker 1: I don't know how long it was, but six seven
Speaker 1: eight months ago there was Saudi Arabia and Qatar entering
Speaker 1: into huge dispute about money, yeah, and about other things
Speaker 1: about you know, foreign policy and stuff, and Turkey and
Speaker 1: Qatar are very much allied. So what's happening and now
Speaker 1: is an attempt from Earth Agon who is licking out
Speaker 1: all the information because this is you know, the Turkish
Speaker 1: government doing it. And I was like, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about this, you know, why is he doing this? And
Speaker 1: then it's they sometimes the reasons are way more simpler,
Speaker 1: but just to put leverage on Saudi Arabia, we can
Speaker 1: the regime and the kingdom and in order to get
Speaker 1: something else out of it, and is masterminding the whole things.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, he's doing it very well.
Speaker 1: This doesn't take away the horrifying murder of a journalist,
Speaker 1: you know, in Turkey, not that the the hirony of
Speaker 1: all of this, you know, is that Turkey doesn't have
Speaker 1: free press. Turkey, you know, has been jailing journalist for
Speaker 1: over two years and like shut down all day free
Speaker 1: press and everything. And now that Earth again is lecturing
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia on how you should do stuff. It's I
Speaker 1: found it quite ironic, honestly, And nobody has been like
Speaker 1: talking about this, although like you know, some critics within Turkey.
Speaker 1: They say, yeah, but there is a huge difference between
Speaker 1: a jailing journalist and murdering them. And I'm like, is
Speaker 1: there really Yeah, of course, you know, killing somebody, but
Speaker 1: it's like in terms of free press, no, there isn't
Speaker 1: much journalist. I mean Turkey kills people all the time.
Speaker 1: The Turkish government, I mean, they've widely suspected to have
Speaker 1: set off bombs in public places. I mean they're extremely
Speaker 1: repressive regime. Urdle Wan consolidating power over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years to essentially set himself up as dictator for life.
Speaker 1: Or our friend Sam Faddus once described Urdlewan or no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't Sam Fattus, it was it was our friend
Speaker 1: Zagros up in the mountains, who's a member of the
Speaker 1: p k K. But I mentioned this to Sam Faddus,
Speaker 1: what what the what the party had told me? But anyway,
Speaker 1: this guy's agro said that other one has neo ottomani
Speaker 1: ambitions And when I mentioned that, the Fattasty just started laughing.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's probably the most accurate consummary of it. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean Turkey is playing its own game. But also
Speaker 1: I think that there isn't my view, there is never
Speaker 1: one explanation for something. I'm also sure sure I think
Speaker 1: that if we want to go down into the conspiracy
Speaker 1: road NBS. You know it's been MBS is um yes,
Speaker 1: as in you know, the prince who is the minister
Speaker 1: of Defense and everything did the purge of his own
Speaker 1: family and arrested a bunch of them for corruption. He said.
Speaker 1: And it's been said that Casagi the journalist, was very
Speaker 1: close to some of those members and and this is
Speaker 1: why he started to be very critical. Not that it
Speaker 1: was before, of course it was, but about this all
Speaker 1: managing of the new way that the kingdom is going.
Speaker 1: And and I feel that somehow they've been trying to
Speaker 1: frame NBS to you know, give him a warning about
Speaker 1: what was going on. What is sure now that all
Speaker 1: these like restricted team, how do you say, like all
Speaker 1: the people working with him, his assistance, distance and aids
Speaker 1: that all been fired. So it's coming like is now
Speaker 1: all by himself. But it's a great way to isolate him.
Speaker 1: The palace cup, Yeah, could one. I don't know about that,
Speaker 1: but you had mentioned to me too that the reason
Speaker 1: why Turkey may have it out for uh for Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia plays into the Syrian Democratic Forces in North Syria
Speaker 1: or Northern Syria, because Saudi Arabia is part of the
Speaker 1: coalition that makes up Operation Inherent Resolve. Yes, And somebody
Speaker 1: was pointing it out to me and couldn't find really
Speaker 1: evidence of it, not yet at least that you know um.
Speaker 1: Around the time the cassoccial that disappearance. At first on
Speaker 1: October two, there were a lot of you know, articles
Speaker 1: about Saudi Arabia giving to the US one million dollars.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that. But then it
Speaker 1: was explained to me by sources that that one hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars is not for the US or for trade
Speaker 1: agreements or whatever. It is part of the efforts of
Speaker 1: the coalition. So it was something that the Saudi um
Speaker 1: were supposed to give to the US, who then turn
Speaker 1: that money towards the Syrian Democratic Forces. Of course, the
Speaker 1: Serian Democratic Forces the biggest part of the Syran the SDF.
Speaker 1: There are Kurdish fighters, and that amount of money in
Speaker 1: their hands scare a lot, hear the down and should
Speaker 1: be you know, I think that this is could be
Speaker 1: an other way to look at this issue and why
Speaker 1: Urgon is so adamant about you know, he's criticism. Let's
Speaker 1: just say the list towards Saudi Arabia. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's one of these complicated geopolitical situations. I mean,
Speaker 1: probably everything going on between Saudi Arabian Iran plays into it,
Speaker 1: and everything going on in Yemen, which we talked about
Speaker 1: on the last podcast, where you have uh Cutter on
Speaker 1: one side and then you have Saudi Arabia and the
Speaker 1: UAE on the other. It's there's a lot of pieces
Speaker 1: that play into it. But by the way, do you
Speaker 1: know if the embargo is still going on for Cutter
Speaker 1: because they placed him under they placed the Cutter under embargo?
Speaker 1: Who is there? Oh? Really? And I'm not sure? Um,
Speaker 1: I I have to suspect because this whole thing is
Speaker 1: like so sloppy and over the top that they probably
Speaker 1: didn't intend to kill him when he came in that day.
Speaker 1: I mean, I probably believe that. I'm not that I
Speaker 1: know for a fact that he came in and they
Speaker 1: probably tried to intimidate him and probably some of those
Speaker 1: idiots got out of hand and overdid it and they
Speaker 1: ended up killing them. Yes, but how come there was
Speaker 1: the doctor as well and I don't think that team,
Speaker 1: you know there was and not the doctor. How do
Speaker 1: you call it the doctor? He's okay, he was some
Speaker 1: sort of a doctor. I don't think he was a corner,
Speaker 1: but he was also somebody he does like setting up
Speaker 1: field hospitals. I mean, I understand what you're saying. I
Speaker 1: think that sometimes intelligence operations are run very badly, and
Speaker 1: you know about them because they're badly run, and so
Speaker 1: something goes really wrong. But I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think in another way, maybe they claimed Arabia claims
Speaker 1: that he died on a fift fist fight, but you see,
Speaker 1: I mean the guy was like fifty eight sixties something,
Speaker 1: And how can how can an operator choke somebody to
Speaker 1: death and do not realize that is actually strangling that Well,
Speaker 1: that's a good question, and that goes back to uh
Speaker 1: the case that um and Molly were those two seals
Speaker 1: UH allegedly murdered UH Sergeant Melgar green Beret there, and
Speaker 1: one of them is a UFC fighter, former UFC fighter,
Speaker 1: and I have the same question, I mean, how can
Speaker 1: you be choking, especially if you're a professional UFC fighter
Speaker 1: mixed martial arts fighter. You get someone in a rear
Speaker 1: naked choke to choke the person out until they pass out.
Speaker 1: It can happen fairly quickly, but then they continuously choked
Speaker 1: them while they're passed out until they die. It's hard
Speaker 1: for me to believe that happens on accident. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have that kind of skills, so so do
Speaker 1: not look at me. But I have to imagine that
Speaker 1: there must be some kind of training in which you
Speaker 1: are you know, what is the limit in which is
Speaker 1: Streuss somebody else. You have just completely let your emotions
Speaker 1: take hold and you're in some sort of a panic.
Speaker 1: I mean, the person actually passes out and goes limp,
Speaker 1: and for you to just not realize that at all
Speaker 1: and continue to choke them out for another couple of minutes,
Speaker 1: it just kind of defies belief at a certain point. Exactly.
Speaker 1: This is what I'm trying to say, you know how
Speaker 1: and these things, you know, the official quote unquote official
Speaker 1: version that keeps on changing every day, not just not
Speaker 1: just from Turkey side, but even from Saudi Arabian side.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so unbelievable. But yeah, they're floating out
Speaker 1: lie after lie, just hoping one of them is going
Speaker 1: to stick and then they'll be able to just like
Speaker 1: no comment at the death. But every lie keeps getting exposed,
Speaker 1: so they have to change their story and go to
Speaker 1: the next lie. It's like, man, this is like this
Speaker 1: is a circus. It's for real. And Jack, I know
Speaker 1: you also wanted to get into this article before we
Speaker 1: wrap things up there. The Army stimied its own study
Speaker 1: of the Iraq War. This is from the Wall Street Journal,
Speaker 1: came out yesterday, written by Michael Gordon. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: an interesting article I was just reading today and it's
Speaker 1: basically about how the Pentagon drafted this report. And it's
Speaker 1: sort of like the Pentagon Papers where they wanted to
Speaker 1: do like a full blown historical review of the Vietnam
Speaker 1: War in that case. Um, in this case, they wrote something.
Speaker 1: It's a page document about the Iraq War from two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, I think, right up to like two
Speaker 1: thousand nine or two thousand and eight, something like that.
Speaker 1: And um, they had like teams of experts pouring over
Speaker 1: documents and interviewing people and all sorts of stuff. And
Speaker 1: now they've, um, they've been dragging their feet on actually
Speaker 1: publishing the study because it makes some generals look pretty
Speaker 1: bad and it could tarnish their reputations. UM. It's pretty incredible. UM.
Speaker 1: And I just want to look over some of the
Speaker 1: key findings that are because apparently the Wall Street Journal
Speaker 1: they probably got a um elite copy of the report
Speaker 1: or a leaked summary of it when they wrote this article.
Speaker 1: Some of the key findings of it, UM the need
Speaker 1: for more troops. At no point during the Iraq warded
Speaker 1: commanders have enough troops to simultaneously defeat the Sunni insurgency
Speaker 1: and Iranian backed Shiite militias. So it's interesting it's saying
Speaker 1: that we never deployed the proper amount of troops there.
Speaker 1: That commanders in theater perpetually thought the war is gonna
Speaker 1: be over in eighteen months throughout the entire campaign. UM,
Speaker 1: So we never sent enough troops over there. UM. The
Speaker 1: failure to deter Iran in Syria. I ran in Syria,
Speaker 1: gave sanctuary and support to Shiite and Sunni militants, respectively,
Speaker 1: and the US never developed an effective strategy to stop this.
Speaker 1: That's true that we didn't do very many counter UM
Speaker 1: cross border raids. There were only a couple the amount
Speaker 1: of operations we did in Syria or and we're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: there were low level there's never like a serious attempt
Speaker 1: to basically turn the tables on them. This is what happened,
Speaker 1: you know in Vietnam where the enemy was using laughs
Speaker 1: in Cambodia as a safe haven to launch operations in
Speaker 1: the South Vietnam. At least in that those cases, we
Speaker 1: did make some efforts to try to stop that. Uh.
Speaker 1: Coalition warfare wasn't successful. The deployment of Allied troops had
Speaker 1: political value, but was largely unsuccessful because the Allies didn't
Speaker 1: send enough troops and limited the scope of the operations.
Speaker 1: So again it's like these coalitions like Operation Inherent Resolve,
Speaker 1: It's like, really, what are you guys doing? You know?
Speaker 1: And I mean I think even like you remember Dave
Speaker 1: Chappelle did that skit about it, we've got a coalition
Speaker 1: of the willing nations, you know. Uh So I mean
Speaker 1: there were some coalition partners, um, who who have done
Speaker 1: and continue to do important work. Um. You know, the
Speaker 1: the Brits at Task Force Black, the s a s
Speaker 1: in Iraq, they did a lot operations. Um. There are
Speaker 1: some small countries who did important work and continue to
Speaker 1: do important work. I mean, h Denmark, small, little little Denmark,
Speaker 1: but they've gone on so many deployments. They've done a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff and it's not their fault that the
Speaker 1: soldiers get hampered by their politicians back home. Um, the Norwegians, UM.
Speaker 1: All these different countries, but it's quite a small but
Speaker 1: of include Canada. Canada has done. Canada goes on like
Speaker 1: every single peacekeeping operation that we're involved in. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's Holland the Dutch also involved. Considered such a small
Speaker 1: country that are all over the world doing stuff, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing. But then you have countries like South Korea,
Speaker 1: and the South Koreans had from the onset of it,
Speaker 1: they said, we'll contribute troops, but caveat not a single
Speaker 1: South Korean soldier can be heard or killed throughout this
Speaker 1: entire campaign. How can you give that kind of assurance.
Speaker 1: So what they did was they said, okay, South Korea
Speaker 1: will put you into Baghdad, and South Korea was like nope.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, we'll send you do to Kryp. South
Speaker 1: Korea is like nope. So eventually it bounced around like
Speaker 1: that until we sent them to her Bill, which is
Speaker 1: like the safest place in Iraq when the Kurdish territories
Speaker 1: UM and the South Koreans were hemmed up on like
Speaker 1: a compound within a compound, they were like it was
Speaker 1: a South Korean Special Forces and some other you know, logistics,
Speaker 1: logistics guys or whatever. They literally could not leave the base.
Speaker 1: They were there purely for political grandstanding and maybe to
Speaker 1: develop some commercial relationships with the Kurds. That was it.
Speaker 1: And what's what's said is, I'm sure because you've had
Speaker 1: you know, you've met with these guys before, and you
Speaker 1: talked about the similarity between American Special operations and those guys,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they want to be in the action. The
Speaker 1: South Korean Special Forces absolutely did. UM. Yeah, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: met with them. They want to do they want to
Speaker 1: do stuff. The Filipino Special Forces they want to be up.
Speaker 1: They want to be kicking Assid Syria with us. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not that the troops are bad, it's just
Speaker 1: that the political considerations are different, and especially in Europe,
Speaker 1: you have these like very shaky coalition governments. UM. The like,
Speaker 1: I had one guy who's a CIA contractor and he
Speaker 1: was telling me that they had planned um this big operation.
Speaker 1: I think it was with I can't remember. I think
Speaker 1: it was with Danish troops. Maybe it was with Swedes
Speaker 1: or something like that. I can't remember. But the they
Speaker 1: were on the tarmac getting into the helicopters to go
Speaker 1: do this operation, and the commander of that, uh, that
Speaker 1: Scandinavian special forces unit received a phone call from a
Speaker 1: member of parliament and said, no, you're shut down, get
Speaker 1: off the helicopter. That's crazy, Like, how can you operate
Speaker 1: in an environment like that? When the politicians are that
Speaker 1: hands on that, they directly call the ground force commander
Speaker 1: like nope, done, can't do that. So yeah, that's when
Speaker 1: Elian warfare becomes a joke. Um, other find national Guard
Speaker 1: needs more training. Yeah, that's that's a no brainer. I
Speaker 1: mean we kind of we feared the national Guard more
Speaker 1: than we feared the enemy over in Iraq because the
Speaker 1: National Guard was notorious for like the death blossom. Like
Speaker 1: they so they received like are they just here at
Speaker 1: gunfire somewhere off in the distance and the National Guard
Speaker 1: just starts firing automatic gunfire in all directions. It was
Speaker 1: called the death blossom. Not not that all National Guard
Speaker 1: units were like that, but some of them are pretty scary. Um,
Speaker 1: the failure to develop self reliant Iraqi forces. The U
Speaker 1: S led effort to train and equip Iraqi forces was
Speaker 1: under resourced for most of the war. A premature decision
Speaker 1: to transfer sovereignty to the Iraqis made it harder to
Speaker 1: blunt political pressure by Iraqi officials on Iraqi commanders, like
Speaker 1: this is the key to me, this is the key
Speaker 1: finding of the entire thing, is that a policy decision
Speaker 1: was made by the Obama administration that we're leaving Iraq
Speaker 1: and everything from there. Ship just rolled downhill and all
Speaker 1: the commanders on the ground then had to fit a square,
Speaker 1: pagan or round hole and they were basically forced and
Speaker 1: pressured to send up false reports to hire. Um I'm
Speaker 1: talking about like the lieutenants, the captains, the majors to
Speaker 1: send up false reports to the generals and say everything's good,
Speaker 1: the Iraqi forces are ready. Yeah, but that's them. It's
Speaker 1: not on Obama. It is on Obama because he made
Speaker 1: a policy. But then if you have a lieutenant learning
Speaker 1: about what's going on on the ground, that's on him,
Speaker 1: I agree. But also if that when that this is
Speaker 1: how the situation works, and there when a lieutenant sends
Speaker 1: up the report to higher, they will and if higher
Speaker 1: doesn't like that report, are you sure, lieutenant? Are you
Speaker 1: that the military is right? But it's a it's an
Speaker 1: ancestuous system. They're they're telling the junior officers what they're
Speaker 1: supposed to say. This is the right answer to give
Speaker 1: the same things with weapons of mass destruction. Well not
Speaker 1: necessarily because if the if the troops on the ground
Speaker 1: are saying there's no w m D s here now,
Speaker 1: then if the general's come back and say no, you
Speaker 1: have to lie and say they were w m D
Speaker 1: s now. It's a case is similar case. But like
Speaker 1: Sam fadd As his team went went into Iraq prior
Speaker 1: to the invasion, and he told his guys his team
Speaker 1: before they went in, He's like, look, if we find
Speaker 1: w m D so so be it will report that,
Speaker 1: but we are not going to massage the facts to
Speaker 1: fit the political agenda. And that's the you know, the U. S.
Speaker 1: Military should have taken that same stance when they went
Speaker 1: uh As we were running a counterinsurgency operation and trying
Speaker 1: to transition sovereignty over to the Iraqi forces. They forced
Speaker 1: a round peg to fitness square hole. The Iraqis were
Speaker 1: not ready for it, and then we pulled out. We
Speaker 1: said everything was kosher. We pulled out, and then Isis
Speaker 1: came to town and you can see the results. Uh
Speaker 1: in effective detainee policy. The US decided at the onset
Speaker 1: not to treat captured insurgents or militia fighters as prisoners
Speaker 1: of war and then never developed an effective way to
Speaker 1: handle detainees. Mini Sunians surgeons were returned to the battlefield. Well,
Speaker 1: hell yeah, that happened, especially as we had to turn
Speaker 1: them over to the Iraqi courts. In the Iraqi judges
Speaker 1: were just like right back into the ecosystem with you,
Speaker 1: and so we pick up the same guys over and
Speaker 1: over again. Um. But also the United States had our
Speaker 1: Our detainee policy was shipped too. I mean, I was somebody.
Speaker 1: One of the things I had to do was stand
Speaker 1: guard and what was then called the tactical interrogation facility.
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about it. It was
Speaker 1: a fucking joke. If you've spoken about it a little
Speaker 1: bit on the show before. Yeah, they had contractors. They're
Speaker 1: using techniques that some might describe as torture. It wasn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a booga rob. It was much more
Speaker 1: professional than that. But what they're saying here is the
Speaker 1: conclusion is correct. We never had a real policy um
Speaker 1: for handling detainees. They should have been treated as prisoners
Speaker 1: of war most likely. Um. And and put into a
Speaker 1: more formalized process. And then uh, the last one here,
Speaker 1: the last bullet point. Democracy doesn't necessarily bring stability. US
Speaker 1: commanders believe the two thousand and five Iraqi elections would
Speaker 1: have a calming effect, but those elections exacerbated ethnic and
Speaker 1: secretary intentions. So look, when you crash a country, when
Speaker 1: you crash the party, collapse, the government, implode the institutions
Speaker 1: of government. Uh. You know, some Jeffersonian democracy isn't just
Speaker 1: going to spring up out of nowhere, especially if you actually,
Speaker 1: you know, bring back people who haven't been in the
Speaker 1: country for twenty years and then say, okay, this is
Speaker 1: your country now, you know, run for office, no, which
Speaker 1: is what we're also trying to do in Libya right now. Um.
Speaker 1: And also when you when you crash the political system, um,
Speaker 1: and you have people who don't have a cultural institutional
Speaker 1: knowledge of democracy, what their vision of democracy is. Okay,
Speaker 1: I vote for my ethnic group. End of story. I
Speaker 1: vote for my tribe. So it's a different way, a
Speaker 1: different way of viewing politics than we do in the
Speaker 1: United States. And I think the U. S. Military was
Speaker 1: extremely naive about that fact. I think also the White
Speaker 1: House was extremely naive. You cannot you cannot export democracy
Speaker 1: in that way. Yeah, I mean there was a fight
Speaker 1: in both Europe and the United States to actually reach
Speaker 1: to democracy, and you need to have that otherwise and
Speaker 1: then we change, we you know, adjusted to our own country,
Speaker 1: and you cannot just impose democracy, but we keep doing
Speaker 1: it over and over again. And that's the book I'm
Speaker 1: reading right now. The Grand Delusion by John Muirscheimer is
Speaker 1: about exactly that, how uh, political liberalism has essentially taken
Speaker 1: over and in the sense we use that term liberalism,
Speaker 1: I mean Georgia W. Bush would be a liberal in
Speaker 1: that sense that we have this idea that we want
Speaker 1: to export our ideology across the world and that will
Speaker 1: make the world a better, safer place. And his book
Speaker 1: is essentially the counter narrative to that, saying that we've
Speaker 1: actually made a foreign policy disaster um across the globe
Speaker 1: um with this sort of ideological thinking. Well, well, if
Speaker 1: you want to read the full article. It's at the
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. Army Stemy its own study of the
Speaker 1: Iraq War. Wrapping things up here. Be sure to check
Speaker 1: out Create Club, the long anticipated collaboration watch that we
Speaker 1: did with NFW Watches. Sorry, I actually saw it on
Speaker 1: Scott Wittner's Instagram, so you can check that out. It
Speaker 1: looks great. Uh, that's coming for Premium tier members. We
Speaker 1: have different tiers of membership depending on how prepared you
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Speaker 1: We're going for custom products in everything from sunglass cases
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Speaker 1: is up. I have a last email really quick. I
Speaker 1: know bet he's got to get out of here. Um
Speaker 1: so I just want to read this from an anonymous
Speaker 1: guy very quick. Uh. Sent to Softwrep dot radio Softwrep
Speaker 1: dot com. He wrote, I'm listening to the Dale Comstock interview.
Speaker 1: I had read his book. This guy is in my age,
Speaker 1: about mid fifties and he's still out there working as
Speaker 1: an operative. That is incredible. Keep these broadcasts coming and
Speaker 1: that's it. So, I mean it really is true. Um,
Speaker 1: Dale's a beast. It's still going strong. Yeah, no, it's
Speaker 1: it's incredible and we're gonna have him back soon. So
Speaker 1: with that, Um, there we go with that. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, be sure to check out Benedetta dash our
Speaker 1: Genti dot com possebla film dot com, which am I
Speaker 1: saying that correctly? Okay? Cool? And at Ben ur Gentieri
Speaker 1: on Twitter, at Benny Arge on Instagram, b E N
Speaker 1: and I A R G E. If you are in
Speaker 1: the New York area and want to check out I
Speaker 1: Am the Revolution that premiers at Synopolis, Chelsea, New York
Speaker 1: City on Thursday, November at p m. Tickets are available
Speaker 1: at d O C N YC dot net. Will all
Speaker 1: be there a lot of other people there. I'm excited
Speaker 1: for it. Uh. And you know, if you guys like
Speaker 1: this episode, check it out, take the drive out. If
Speaker 1: you're in the you know, try State Area, anything else
Speaker 1: before we wrap this up, I think for sure. Awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks for coming in, Benny. It's been far too long
Speaker 1: and everybody's excited for the film, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Great stuff. Yeah, you've been listening to self red Lydia
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