Speaker 1: Ah beat Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not
Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software A Gradio, Special Operations,
Speaker 1: military news and straight talk with the guys and the community,
Speaker 1: SOFTWAREP Radio on Time on Target. As I mentioned, all
Speaker 1: of the last month January, our podcasts were sponsored by
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Speaker 1: and uh man, they've just been great. I really, uh
Speaker 1: hope to do more with them. As I said, with that,
Speaker 1: we have Marine Corps Major Fred Galvin coming back on.
Speaker 1: Fred was last on episode two oh six. Was also
Speaker 1: on episode those are up at software Radio dot com.
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear the backstory, as the
Speaker 1: commanding officer for the first mar Sock Company, him and
Speaker 1: his men were wrongfully accused of just heinous war crimes.
Speaker 1: But they've finally been vindicated. And it's been twelve years
Speaker 1: and I've seen hard fought battle. Yeah, I've seen articles
Speaker 1: popping up everywhere about this. Uh you know, it would
Speaker 1: have been nice if we saw these articles showing up
Speaker 1: while they were in the fight. But yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: mean that's the thing is, at the time, everyone just
Speaker 1: crucified Fred and his men, um even though there was
Speaker 1: so much evidence to the contrary. And you know I heard,
Speaker 1: I mean I remember I told Fred this on a
Speaker 1: past episode. I heard this story. I heard the rumor
Speaker 1: Mills story about Marstock and what these guys did. Uh,
Speaker 1: back in like two thousand seven. Um. So, I mean
Speaker 1: it was all floating around and it was all rumor
Speaker 1: and speculation, and then when the real story came out,
Speaker 1: it showed something completely different. Um. So you know a
Speaker 1: lot of times we report on news the things that
Speaker 1: are negative and not very nice. Um, you know, things
Speaker 1: that have to be said. But this is gonna be
Speaker 1: what episode like four thirty or close to it. So
Speaker 1: we're able to follow these stories over a long period
Speaker 1: of time. And I'm really glad that there are cases
Speaker 1: like this where we're able to come back and revisit
Speaker 1: a topic and update it and um and there is
Speaker 1: apparently a happy ending to this. Yeah, just refreshing myself.
Speaker 1: It's episode four eight, But I agree, it's good to
Speaker 1: give an update. Nick Hoffman did excellent park Management water
Speaker 1: reporting on this subject. Yeah, editor in chief, I'd say
Speaker 1: at large of all the websites. Um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was getting mixed up with whose position is what
Speaker 1: as I know you do as well, but Nick is
Speaker 1: one of the editors. Yeah. Nick was working as a
Speaker 1: as a writer at the time, but yeah, now he's
Speaker 1: kind of managing the umbrella of the company. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he did amazing work with this um and was really
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve. UH. And also Walter Jones, Congressman,
Speaker 1: did great work before people were really on the side
Speaker 1: of these guys. Before we get to Fred Galvin, I
Speaker 1: figured just a few really quick notes that I wanted
Speaker 1: to get out there, so that Mike Schlitz was at
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. If there's anyone who deserves to be
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl, I would say it's him. It
Speaker 1: looks like he had a great toime. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw all those pictures up on Instagram. And also, UM,
Speaker 1: just to clear this up because we talked about the
Speaker 1: ound of previous podcast, b K is still banned on
Speaker 1: Twitter because he has another Twitter for his podcast, but
Speaker 1: he has thousands of followers that are now lost in UH.
Speaker 1: I don't know that. So he's using an alternate account. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's using b K actual podcast. But be at b
Speaker 1: K Actual it doesn't even say suspended anymore. He might
Speaker 1: be permanently banned. What did he do? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was thinking we do have an opening next week,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get b K because it would be interesting
Speaker 1: to talk about this subject. I said that Joe Rogan
Speaker 1: recently had on Jack the guy who runs Twitter, and
Speaker 1: people are kind of disappointed because he didn't go into
Speaker 1: like in depth on people being banned from Twitter, and
Speaker 1: he said he will the next time he has him on.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: these guys like Anthony Coomi and Gavin McGinnis. Now our
Speaker 1: friend b K, who are you know gone on the platform?
Speaker 1: Like what are the terms of use? What did b
Speaker 1: K do? I mean, did he did he violently threatened someone?
Speaker 1: I mean that would be that would be a different story.
Speaker 1: Or it's just BK making his wise s tweets? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, and is that that's the barrier, that's the threshold.
Speaker 1: Now you make a wise ass remark that some kid
Speaker 1: working at Twitter doesn't like and they just suspend you.
Speaker 1: I saw that there were people apparently being banned. There
Speaker 1: was a guy who said who there was a guy
Speaker 1: who's verified on Twitter, so it wasn't just some random
Speaker 1: account and said he knows people inside who worked for Twitter,
Speaker 1: and apparently they were suspending people for tweeting at journalists.
Speaker 1: Go learn to code. But with all the wayoffs now,
Speaker 1: is it a nice thing to say no but mean
Speaker 1: things all the time? But it's kind of crazy thick skin.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean I did see a little bit
Speaker 1: of that um Joe Rogan podcast with with the Twitter
Speaker 1: ceo and and and I think Joe is pushing him
Speaker 1: a little bit. Like Donald Trump threatens to like new
Speaker 1: entire countries on Twitter. How come you haven't banned him?
Speaker 1: And he was kind of like making this weird justification
Speaker 1: while Obama sa we'd retaliate against North Korea. You have
Speaker 1: to take it in context and a huge difference though. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit different. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't recall Obama jumping on Twitter saying like We're gonna
Speaker 1: nuke that you know, fat kid in North Korea. I
Speaker 1: don't remember that. Um, it's all just I mean, it's
Speaker 1: their platform. It's a commercial platform. I guess they can
Speaker 1: ban whoever they want, but it seems like it's just
Speaker 1: kind of like whatever the mob decides when they wake
Speaker 1: up that day. But they should say that because I didn't,
Speaker 1: I didn't listen to the whole podcast, but from what
Speaker 1: I heard, Jack the CEO of Twitter, said on that
Speaker 1: podcast that he looks at his platform as like a
Speaker 1: public utility and that you have a right to be
Speaker 1: on there now if you feel that way, that is
Speaker 1: that that isn't corresponding with the banning people. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, you don't, You don't. It would take
Speaker 1: a lot to ban someone from owning a telephone or
Speaker 1: something a public utility like that. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you say something that someone doesn't like, it's not
Speaker 1: like you cut off their fucking plumbing. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: are you out their electricity? Uh? You take away their
Speaker 1: driver's license? You know? I don't know. That comparison doesn't
Speaker 1: really work for me. Yeah, So I'd like to get
Speaker 1: into it with b K. He's just a all around
Speaker 1: fun guy to follow on Twitter. So I guess you
Speaker 1: could follow at b k actual podcast, but ye drop
Speaker 1: drop on the line. So if he wants to come
Speaker 1: on and talk about it for like ten fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: I will because he has a decent following. He's several
Speaker 1: thousand and now he only is a few hundred. And
Speaker 1: you know this. He he likes doing his podcast and
Speaker 1: getting listeners and this is how he does it is
Speaker 1: through social medias. So it does screw him a bit.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I I understand he's a smartass. I mean,
Speaker 1: so am I but I don't see b k uh
Speaker 1: like physically threatening anybody or anything like that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would agree, And maybe it was one of those things
Speaker 1: where like he was sex telling some journalists to learn
Speaker 1: to code and they banned. I wouldn't that would not
Speaker 1: saying that for sure. I'll ask him. I'll ask me
Speaker 1: wants to come on next week because we have an opening.
Speaker 1: But uh, all right, let's get over to uh Fred Galbin,
Speaker 1: there's anything else you want to get to? I know,
Speaker 1: I think that's about it. Cool. Alright, well, let's h
Speaker 1: let's hear the update from him back on the show
Speaker 1: Marine Corps Major Fred Galvin. If you guys listen to
Speaker 1: our previous episodes with him and two oh six, I
Speaker 1: feel like most of this audience is up to speed
Speaker 1: on what went down with mar Sock. I mean, for
Speaker 1: those who don't know, Fred Galvin was the commanding officer
Speaker 1: for the first more Soock Company. They were wrongfully accused
Speaker 1: of all types of heinous war crimes and have finally
Speaker 1: been vindicated after a twelve year fight. Those shows two
Speaker 1: oh six still up at Software Radio dot com. We
Speaker 1: weren't really in depth with everything, so if you want
Speaker 1: the full story, go back to those. But I mean
Speaker 1: this is really some good news that that finally something
Speaker 1: has been done and and your names are queered because
Speaker 1: as you said to us, you know, people would google
Speaker 1: your name and all sorts of crazy stuff would come on.
Speaker 1: I know this was both professional and personal for you, Fred,
Speaker 1: and I just want to ask you first off, I mean,
Speaker 1: how does it feel. I mean, this was a long
Speaker 1: fight for you. It's it's awesome. And uh, you know
Speaker 1: one example, one of the Marines can't say his name.
Speaker 1: Is he still with the Marine Raiders? Uh? Currently? His
Speaker 1: wife sent me a email this morning because, uh, you
Speaker 1: know this this means so much to them there their
Speaker 1: family was the only one that escaped without having a divorce.
Speaker 1: And you know I looked at him and his three kids,
Speaker 1: and you know see how much of a difference it made.
Speaker 1: You know, some people say twelve years isn't that long.
Speaker 1: You've been retired for five years? You know, is that
Speaker 1: worth it? To me? Absolutely? Every bit of it is.
Speaker 1: And uh, I can't say enough for you know listeners
Speaker 1: that made a made a big push with the House
Speaker 1: Resolution twenty one. It's actually go for hacking congers with
Speaker 1: a gentleman named corgressman Walter Jones from in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: who unfortunately is right now in hospice care. But a
Speaker 1: lot of people put effort into This wasn't one or
Speaker 1: a few. This was a lot of concerned Americans saying, hey,
Speaker 1: this is wrong and it shouldn't happen to folks that
Speaker 1: are just serving their country. They're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: But it's as it is. Finally, over, what does it
Speaker 1: say to you? Though? It took twelve years for the
Speaker 1: military as an institution to reverse course. And even then,
Speaker 1: I mean the Marine Corps, I mean they dragged their
Speaker 1: feet on it's like, every single step of the way,
Speaker 1: and didn't it actually took the Navy to set things right,
Speaker 1: didn't it. Yes? And that that's exactly right. And it's
Speaker 1: kind of complicated because you started out with the Marine
Speaker 1: Corps not wanting to get involved in special operations whatsoever.
Speaker 1: And then once Donald Runce felt the Secretary Defense forced
Speaker 1: them to, they didn't provide any kind of logistical support
Speaker 1: for our company. So when you put a unit of
Speaker 1: a you know, an actual task force, you know, something
Speaker 1: larger than you know, no d D. I mean this
Speaker 1: this was a pretty large unit and put them out
Speaker 1: in the most formidable train out in eastern Afghani Sound
Speaker 1: along the Afghan Pakistan Borer and the tor Bora Mountains,
Speaker 1: and uh you divide the company and a couple of locations.
Speaker 1: That's you know, from from the get go, in such
Speaker 1: a politically sensitive area right there on the Afghan Pakistan
Speaker 1: boarder in the wintertime. That you know, when you look
Speaker 1: at things, you look at the you know, Desert one
Speaker 1: and how the very first you know, Army Joint Special
Speaker 1: Operations Unit when you try to throw the hail Mary
Speaker 1: right from the start. You know, it's just like those
Speaker 1: British sas guys, you know when they landed back in Oman.
Speaker 1: You know they laid that case of beer there on
Speaker 1: the runway. They knew they wrote on the top of it.
Speaker 1: You know, the guts to try. You know, what I
Speaker 1: think is probably one of the most graceful things is
Speaker 1: when other service members, you know take their jabs at
Speaker 1: you know, their brothers and arms and the lads that
Speaker 1: you know gave everything to try, you know, but it's
Speaker 1: a that's it's done and over and you're right. You know,
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps from beginning didn't want this. They really
Speaker 1: didn't get any kind of They didn't use legal terms,
Speaker 1: I'll say, and that after the trial. They waited four
Speaker 1: months and they did a Friday night news dump on
Speaker 1: the Memorial Day weekend and they used they didn't use
Speaker 1: innocent or not guilty or dismissed. Those are legal terms,
Speaker 1: they said, acted appropriately. So the press just continued to
Speaker 1: run wild. And even after I retired seven years later,
Speaker 1: it was we still just kept getting punched and punched
Speaker 1: continuously in the press until I retired that gaggle order
Speaker 1: was lifted. I I went to set the record straight.
Speaker 1: And that's what the Department of the Navy did this
Speaker 1: last year in two thousand eighteen, submitted a petition. Was
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps very self righteous organization, that only service
Speaker 1: that until this last year has never allowed an individual
Speaker 1: to be president at a board of correction of military record.
Speaker 1: So um Congress from Jones fought and tried to tried
Speaker 1: to allow me to you know, be present to defend
Speaker 1: our case. But so it was absolutely sterile and uninfluenced.
Speaker 1: There's no guy with a sick grandmother. You know. It
Speaker 1: was a defense and a government attorneys and they took
Speaker 1: it all the evidence and and they made a decision
Speaker 1: that was uninfluenced. And that's what came out this past
Speaker 1: month in January two nineteen, where uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: Department of the Navy, you know, senior panels, civilian leaders,
Speaker 1: not not people wearing uniforms that can be influenced on
Speaker 1: their career, but these are senior leaders and depending on
Speaker 1: And they wrote a very scathing indictment of those individuals
Speaker 1: and they named names um and if you put that
Speaker 1: in your show notes, your readers can read that. But
Speaker 1: it actually listed who you know, those conspirators were that
Speaker 1: sabotaged our our unit and continue to do it. And
Speaker 1: you know they said that, you know, that investigation was
Speaker 1: either gross negligence or it had a predetermined outcome. In
Speaker 1: my opinion, it had both both. So it was prejudicial
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Absolutely was. And that wasn't just
Speaker 1: you know from the you know, Theaters Special Operations Command.
Speaker 1: That when it got turned over to Naval Criminal Investigative Service,
Speaker 1: and it was under the convenient authority of the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: You know, unfortunately the Marines sick criminal investigators out there.
Speaker 1: And you know you can see this ABC Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: you know you're listeners can Google search. You know this
Speaker 1: case ABC Channel seven in l A. And listen to
Speaker 1: one of the marines, you know, talk about how his
Speaker 1: family was threatened to be deported, which violates our constitution
Speaker 1: for anyone that's native born or nationalized. And they scared
Speaker 1: this scared this poor young marine who was His crime
Speaker 1: was that he legally, you know, immigrated and legally and
Speaker 1: listed in the Marine Corps during the time of war
Speaker 1: and want to serve and serving for street kind of
Speaker 1: special operations and got blown up a van detonated, you know,
Speaker 1: five ft in front of his vehicle, and you know,
Speaker 1: then they they carry him and squeezing, give him the
Speaker 1: choice between you know, his blood family and his brother's
Speaker 1: and arms and that kind of you know, moral hazard.
Speaker 1: Can't just be swept under the rug. That's unreal. Why
Speaker 1: do you think the Marine Corps was just so stubborn
Speaker 1: like they did They obviously did not want to admit.
Speaker 1: Even years down the line, after you know, the change
Speaker 1: the commands had rolled over different different personalities, they still
Speaker 1: did not just it could not bring themselves to come
Speaker 1: forward and say we got it wrong and we want
Speaker 1: to fix this, we want to fix the glitch. They
Speaker 1: couldn't even bring themselves to say that, you know, some
Speaker 1: of this is this assumption. But you know, of course
Speaker 1: some of the facts that I're gonna talk about with
Speaker 1: the assumption facts are you know, you know, we have
Speaker 1: a huge expense in the United States and that's that's
Speaker 1: our debt, and you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 1: uh money going all over, but the biggest part of
Speaker 1: our budget is defense. And uh. You know there's this
Speaker 1: famous Marine Corps general who you know, in the early
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds he was fighting wars and he wrote a
Speaker 1: book after he got out called the War as a Rackett, Yes,
Speaker 1: Smedley Butler, and he just talked about, you know, the
Speaker 1: fourth branch of the federal government, the defense complex. And
Speaker 1: and now we just see this. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: what general that has three or four stars retires. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a never leave a general behind.
Speaker 1: You know, they all go to work for several boards.
Speaker 1: They're making, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you fly into either Reagan or Dullus, what do
Speaker 1: you see on the top of every building Rayeon Boing Locket.
Speaker 1: I mean, they all buy their generals and admirals, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a conflict of interests. We you know,
Speaker 1: they've termed these forever wars. I mean, are you telling
Speaker 1: me that you know, seventy three years ago we had
Speaker 1: an unconditional surrender with the Empire of Japan that had battleships,
Speaker 1: aircraft carriers. I mean, the the mindset of never surrendering.
Speaker 1: These are people that were brutal, and but they surrendered
Speaker 1: on the starboard side of midship in Missouri. And here
Speaker 1: after you know, we've been We've just entered our eighteenth
Speaker 1: year of war in Afghanistan, the guys wearing Philip flops,
Speaker 1: using rifles made in the forties and homemade explosives, and
Speaker 1: we are entering, you know, negotiations with the Taliban. Is
Speaker 1: we all we're talking here? We fully understand that's that's
Speaker 1: a surrender, that's us not being able to get it
Speaker 1: done because our strategy failed. And then who's who's to
Speaker 1: benefit those guys that become board members and sell you know,
Speaker 1: these f thirty five that constantly have problems in these
Speaker 1: V twenty two. You know, all these things that you
Speaker 1: know continue only need to be refined in your dependent
Speaker 1: on this. But you know the young lads that are
Speaker 1: out there picking up their buddies, pieces of them, putting
Speaker 1: them in bags and having to pick up the pieces
Speaker 1: of these guys that you know, the marriages fail, they're blinded,
Speaker 1: their blown up. And I mean those guys they didn't
Speaker 1: fail doing their job. They did it and they did
Speaker 1: it faithfully. And uh, you know it's the consequences for
Speaker 1: those guys the frontline foot soldiers is is terrible and
Speaker 1: ultimate no accountability of it is that those generals and
Speaker 1: admirals will all get another star. They'll all move up
Speaker 1: through the chairman of the Joint chiefs before they retire
Speaker 1: and sit on the boards of these you know, massive
Speaker 1: defense companies. And I I know you have been very
Speaker 1: um I think, cautious and correct and sticking to the
Speaker 1: facts of this story all along. Fred. And now now
Speaker 1: it's kind of said and done. Um you got you
Speaker 1: and your men have been exonerated. And I do want
Speaker 1: to push you a little bit further. You've alluded to it,
Speaker 1: but I want to push you if we were, if
Speaker 1: you were to spec is a if why was this
Speaker 1: conspiracy against marsk hatched? Why why was this story that
Speaker 1: this sustained injustice perpetuated for so long, and I know
Speaker 1: that you have to have some thoughts about that and
Speaker 1: specifically why it went down like this. And I just
Speaker 1: wondered if you would be one to, even if it's
Speaker 1: on the understanding that this is conjecture rather than fact,
Speaker 1: if you could talk a little bit about why you
Speaker 1: think that happened. You know, I have thought a lot
Speaker 1: about it that over the years. Some of the things
Speaker 1: that I do know there are facts and now go
Speaker 1: into some assumptions, but it was a fact that the
Speaker 1: Marine Corps resisted in two thousand one when Rumsfeld said, hey,
Speaker 1: I want all of the components of Special Operations Command
Speaker 1: to expand capacity. Well, the Green Braves added a battalion
Speaker 1: Perer group, Navy Seals added teams on both coasts with
Speaker 1: Team seven and eight. I mean it was the Special
Speaker 1: Oppors community was growing business, rapid expand and rink corps. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: not just in size but in capability and capacity and programs,
Speaker 1: and and that was very successful. When you look at
Speaker 1: what happened in Afghanistan in the early years with what
Speaker 1: the Green Braves and their Force Special Operation did, and
Speaker 1: it was it was runaway success. And that's what Donald
Speaker 1: Runce felt saw and he wanted to reinforce that, like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's unconventional warfare. This is how it should be applied.
Speaker 1: And we were winning. But one of the problems was
Speaker 1: on the Marine Corps side of the house. They're you know,
Speaker 1: the enforced free competunes that were fighting some tough battles
Speaker 1: in Western Iraq, just you know, policing up bad guys
Speaker 1: and stacking them up like Cordwood. And we had a
Speaker 1: lot of success out there for a year after a year,
Speaker 1: and then you know, the Marine Corps was trying to
Speaker 1: pacify this because you go all the way back to
Speaker 1: World War Two and get the Marine Raiders and President
Speaker 1: Franklin Delano Roosevelt created that organization forced on the Marine
Speaker 1: Corpsprine Corps did not want it. While he was Roosevelt
Speaker 1: was still the president. They disbanded it. You know, so
Speaker 1: in two years after they've been fighting in combat, you know,
Speaker 1: with one sentence comment on the Marine Corps said it's
Speaker 1: not in the best centest of the Marine Corps to
Speaker 1: have an elite with an elite. So now you fast
Speaker 1: forward into the twenty one century and you have the
Speaker 1: same kind of mentality and the Marine Corps resisting telling Rumsfeld, no,
Speaker 1: you know, Marine Corps thought, you know, Bush and Rumsfeld
Speaker 1: would be a one term team. Ended up that he wasn't.
Speaker 1: In oh four he got reelected and the first thing
Speaker 1: after election in oh five, Rumsfeld said, Marine Corps, you're
Speaker 1: gonna stand up Special Operations Command, and so that order
Speaker 1: came in oh five. We were the first task force
Speaker 1: that stood up. And I was six and we deployed No.
Speaker 1: Seven and you know, I equated like in The Godfather,
Speaker 1: you have you know, you have the sect deaf. Donald Rumsfeld,
Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense, and he had this arranged marriage between
Speaker 1: General Brown, the commander at the time of US Special
Speaker 1: Operations come in in the Marine Corps. Uh. Who General Hagy.
Speaker 1: It was a comment on the Marine Corps. He didn't
Speaker 1: neither of them wanted this arrange of marriage. And we
Speaker 1: were the one that was birthed in Uh. You know.
Speaker 1: They they wanted to terminate the life of this this baby.
Speaker 1: So we go and they put us in the oddest
Speaker 1: place in Afghanistan. And this is if you go back
Speaker 1: in history, it's not that far, but if you look
Speaker 1: at what was going on in OH six and oh seven,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of interesting. Um, you saw full
Speaker 1: length paid ads in the New York Times calling General
Speaker 1: Betray Petreus. They ran ads in the New York Times
Speaker 1: saying General Beatreus, he was, yeah, urging a surge of
Speaker 1: forces into Iraq. So while Afghanistan became the economy of
Speaker 1: force mission and looked, you know, phenomenal, like nothing was happening,
Speaker 1: and there was a little resurgence that was going on
Speaker 1: and in oh five, but you know, we had put
Speaker 1: them on their heels. But in that Iraq it was
Speaker 1: a totally different story. It was turning into a really bad,
Speaker 1: bloody situation. And then you started having the political situation
Speaker 1: occur with you know, accusations, not jaz Abu Grab the
Speaker 1: big famous one. But you know, your listeners are probably
Speaker 1: familiar with the Hedia situation. And you know Congressman Jack
Speaker 1: Martha from Pennsylvania's slamming these marines. He himself was a
Speaker 1: marine in Vietnam, and he said, these marines killed these
Speaker 1: innocent Iraqis in cold blood. And when you do that
Speaker 1: during a criminal investigation, I mean, how how are guys
Speaker 1: supposed to get a fair shake? How is that the
Speaker 1: presumption of innocence and you had these cases like going
Speaker 1: going on like that with Navy seals. Yet it going
Speaker 1: on another situation Iraq with Hadiza or Hamnania the big
Speaker 1: one though, yeah, Abi Gray was the biggest one. But
Speaker 1: then I mean look fast forward to now. I mean
Speaker 1: the guys who are really out there still not just
Speaker 1: training but fighting. You see, you know Major Goldstein, you
Speaker 1: know you have Army Green Rays, you have Navy chiefs
Speaker 1: and who are seals you know, you know, getting carted off,
Speaker 1: read their rights, taken into jail in the brig I mean,
Speaker 1: this is this is becoming the scene that America who
Speaker 1: depends on a strong not just a military, but a
Speaker 1: strong one. What American parents and their children want to say, Hey,
Speaker 1: that's that's what I want from my son. I And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of and and it's a special breed
Speaker 1: of person that decides that I want to just not
Speaker 1: just serve in the military, but in special operations and
Speaker 1: face the risks and the really fuel and the criticisms
Speaker 1: that come with that. That's a that's a type a person. So,
Speaker 1: but we we did have some issues in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: Marine Corps didn't want to support this. They didn't give
Speaker 1: us any of the support personnel whatsoever. So when you
Speaker 1: put somebody in an austere environment with zero support personnel,
Speaker 1: well of course you're gonna fail. And you know, as
Speaker 1: you know, and I was raised in the Catholic Church,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's beliefs that you're taught, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're growing up in a small parish and attending
Speaker 1: Catholic schools that there's the infallibility at the Pope. And
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps also has a little bad right now,
Speaker 1: I'll compare the Marine Corps ysked, like my opinions, and
Speaker 1: some Marine Corps is kind of cultish and a lot
Speaker 1: of things in special operations are. But the Marine Corps
Speaker 1: we don't have a you know, a song, right, we
Speaker 1: have a hymn and we believe, you know, they believe
Speaker 1: like the infallibility of the Pope, and the Catholic Church
Speaker 1: will believe in the infallibility of you know, not just
Speaker 1: a common out of the Marine Corps. And look how
Speaker 1: people revere General Madison everything. People think, you know, Saint
Speaker 1: James and they think that, you know, Marine Corps General
Speaker 1: is infallible and don't say anything when if you tell
Speaker 1: a marine you know, to say something bad it will
Speaker 1: not happen. I mean that's basically that's like barbecue and
Speaker 1: a bald eagle on a baseball bat before which a
Speaker 1: lot of it's completely unpatriotic. People will like stone you
Speaker 1: in this day and age, and that's the one sacra
Speaker 1: saying thing. And people can kneel in an anthem, but
Speaker 1: they're definitely not bad mouth General Madis or marine. But
Speaker 1: when you have absolute power like that, and you know people,
Speaker 1: some people told me like, well, General Conway, who was
Speaker 1: a common on the wrinkle, he stood up for you guys,
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, actually he had some conversations
Speaker 1: with General Pace, who at the time, I mean General
Speaker 1: Conway was a commandant in oh seven and General Pace
Speaker 1: with his Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff in General Pace,
Speaker 1: if you and I can send you the stuff for
Speaker 1: your show, notes like General Pace, and in April of
Speaker 1: oh seven, during a ongoing criminal investigation, that he discussed
Speaker 1: this matter with MARSK with the Commanant, and the Commanant
Speaker 1: was clearly disappointed in those marines. When marines are gonna
Speaker 1: go to a military trial and the Commonant is clearly disappointed.
Speaker 1: And this isn't like a jury of your peer is
Speaker 1: in the civilian world where you know they're uninfluenced. This
Speaker 1: is I mean, there is death in the military if
Speaker 1: you want to get promoted, and it's nothing out organizations,
Speaker 1: so you just can't stay in at the same rank forever.
Speaker 1: And like the paycheck, like a lot of jobs out
Speaker 1: in the civil in the world, so you're either you've
Speaker 1: depend on getting promoted or your career is over. And
Speaker 1: so you know, a panel of your peers is it
Speaker 1: truly you know, unbiased when you have the general pace
Speaker 1: making statements like that to the press. So you know,
Speaker 1: the thing is with the infallibility theory, you know, people
Speaker 1: don't go back there. They're not going to say whoops,
Speaker 1: you know, tell me, Yeah, tell me a case where
Speaker 1: any military general or admiral has said, oops, we put
Speaker 1: that one in the bleachers and you know that I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, tell me. But that's the that
Speaker 1: led to a lot of problems with But there was
Speaker 1: also the the factional and political aspect of us that
Speaker 1: you mentioned that the Marine Corps just did not want
Speaker 1: you guys, And I mean, did did you get the
Speaker 1: feeling also that the army didn't want you guys? Because
Speaker 1: they see you as kind of encroaching on our territory
Speaker 1: as as special operations. It's good point. And I'll even
Speaker 1: go a step further with the geopolitical. And I'm not
Speaker 1: some I did get into a PhD program, but I'm
Speaker 1: not some big brain. But when you talk about you know,
Speaker 1: the haters, and it's haters are gonna hate. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that jealousy inside special operations community. But
Speaker 1: you take one layer out above in the political world.
Speaker 1: Oh seven, what do we have? Well, we had exactly
Speaker 1: what's going on right now two thousand and nineteen, the
Speaker 1: start of you know, a primary election for the presidency,
Speaker 1: and you know everybody you know seven, it was Look,
Speaker 1: George Bush brought us, He lied and got into Iraq.
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to say one way or another
Speaker 1: other than saying what certain parties were saying. You know,
Speaker 1: So what was going on was hellied to get us
Speaker 1: in Iraq. Now we're uh surging over a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: Americans into Iraq and people are bleeding and dying. And
Speaker 1: look at all the money that we're spending and we're
Speaker 1: getting nowhere. And now look we've got marines killing civilians
Speaker 1: in Hadita and in Hondania in all these terrible war
Speaker 1: crimes case and now, oh and this is gearing up,
Speaker 1: you know, the the Republicans had the White House and
Speaker 1: oh seven and and people were making the accusations against
Speaker 1: you know, the GOP because they are the ones in power. Now, look,
Speaker 1: we've got marine United States Special Operations marines killing civilians,
Speaker 1: the largest body count of servian casualties in Afghanistan. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I didn't realize the time, being a young guy
Speaker 1: from growing up in Kansas, but we were pawns that
Speaker 1: people were putting these pieces together, connecting the dots and
Speaker 1: these data points and saying and blaming you know this.
Speaker 1: We were a political pawn and a tool for people
Speaker 1: to you know, criticize. And the General Kearneys went to
Speaker 1: the Washington Post in the New York Times repeatedly and
Speaker 1: threw us under the bus until Congressman Walter Jones heard
Speaker 1: General Nicholson and Colonel Nicholson at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: making up televised you know, speech to the Pentagon Press Corps,
Speaker 1: and said, this is a terrible, terrible stake, this is
Speaker 1: a stain on our honor. He apologized on behalf of America.
Speaker 1: I mean this is during a criminal investigation, which he
Speaker 1: says in that same interview, I can't talk about this
Speaker 1: because there's an ongoing Naval Criminal Investigative Service investigations. Like well,
Speaker 1: you just you said that these Marines killed nineteen civilians
Speaker 1: and wounded. I mean, how I don't know how that
Speaker 1: got got promoted four stars or you know, he has
Speaker 1: not been investigated. But um, were they hoping if this
Speaker 1: was going to shut down MARSOC permanently, Like this was
Speaker 1: just going to knock the Marine Corps right out of
Speaker 1: the Special operations game? You know, that would be assumption.
Speaker 1: But I think you know, I mean we did hear
Speaker 1: General Major General at the time Haleck, who was a
Speaker 1: commanding general of Marine Special Operations Command. He he went
Speaker 1: around to different commands, and you know, there was sadly,
Speaker 1: forgive this mortal sin that there was a marine in
Speaker 1: the Philippines, you know, doing a training mission with the
Speaker 1: Philippine Special Operations who had rolled his sleeves on his
Speaker 1: military uniform sleeves up, you know, toward it's in the
Speaker 1: middle of his forearm, and you know, the general is
Speaker 1: so outraged. He made a statement all across Marstock that
Speaker 1: if he saw this was shortly after our incident in Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: that he was going to disband the organization. But when
Speaker 1: you look at some of the other telltale signs and
Speaker 1: his reconnaissance marine and our special operator, you're trained not
Speaker 1: only to see what is seen, but you're to report
Speaker 1: what the unseen. You know, we don't see you know, infantry,
Speaker 1: fighting vehicles on the battlefield. The commander needs to know
Speaker 1: what is seen and unseen. And what I mean by
Speaker 1: that is, you know what was going on in oh
Speaker 1: six and oh seven and oh eight when we you know,
Speaker 1: we're standing up the Marine Special Operations commanded. I was
Speaker 1: told we are not going to procure any additional weapons,
Speaker 1: even though we had manpower that drew from there was
Speaker 1: three hundred roughly three D four three comrades and ring
Speaker 1: corps and you know five and then we're expanding to fifties.
Speaker 1: So you know, the weapons for three hundred guys you
Speaker 1: can't outfit, you know. But they's like, hey, I think
Speaker 1: they planned on this being short lived. And you say
Speaker 1: the governments make an assumption, well, no military construction. That's
Speaker 1: the key to when you start, you know, when you
Speaker 1: shift from like we were from living in trailers. You know,
Speaker 1: that's temporary and that can easily go away, like the
Speaker 1: Marine Raiders world War two. That one he actually it
Speaker 1: stands up for you know, a deployment and then it's gone, right,
Speaker 1: But when you actually put concrete down, when you you know,
Speaker 1: the government approves military construction, there's capital expenditures that going
Speaker 1: to the earth and permits and that is permanency and
Speaker 1: none of that was you know, initially it took years
Speaker 1: for that to develop and uh, you know, finally I think,
Speaker 1: you know, with a new administration after eight there was
Speaker 1: that acceptance that Marsak is going to be here to stay,
Speaker 1: even after Rumsfeld and Bush had left. And you know,
Speaker 1: when you look at it, think, I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: harbor resentment. I mean, the Marine Special Operators are out
Speaker 1: there deployed dozens of locations around the globe right now
Speaker 1: with with their brothers and doing incredible work and the
Speaker 1: risk and lives, it's what they're doing is amazing, like whateen.
Speaker 1: And I mean they're over there building relationships with the
Speaker 1: Philippine Marine Corps. I mean, they're they're out there doing
Speaker 1: great stuff. Yes, And you're right, a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't know about you know, what's going on the Philippines,
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a fight over there right now
Speaker 1: that you know is largely ignored, but it's a it's
Speaker 1: those Marines. You know, there's there's Green brays and seals
Speaker 1: and others around the globe doing what they do. And
Speaker 1: it just took time to accept. And you know, there
Speaker 1: was a stigma that you know, guys have heard this
Speaker 1: and you know, unless somebody was there and like at
Speaker 1: at the ambush site and then shut your mouth, you're
Speaker 1: not night witness. You're just and again, you know, when
Speaker 1: you're criticizing somebody that you know was in the arenas
Speaker 1: Roosevelt said, you know, it's you know, that's to me,
Speaker 1: that's the lowest form of you know, cowardice is you know,
Speaker 1: you're kicking somebody for something that you don't even know about.
Speaker 1: You don't even have the facts. It's just conjecture. It's
Speaker 1: and there was too much of that this Department of
Speaker 1: the name. The report, which Nick Kaufman wrote about it,
Speaker 1: came out and beginning of January last month, in two thousand,
Speaker 1: nineteen twelve page report and again that was a panel
Speaker 1: of senior Navy civilians that didn't have any person from
Speaker 1: the defense actually present at all. There was just a
Speaker 1: petition that was submitted. They looked and examined the whole
Speaker 1: case in two thousand and eighteen, and you know, like
Speaker 1: my attorney said, he's like Fred. They normally have a
Speaker 1: one page the final report that comes out that's so
Speaker 1: vague you don't even know what the case about. They
Speaker 1: went into twelve pages that said that investigation was either
Speaker 1: the investigator was either grossly negligent or had a predetermined outcome.
Speaker 1: And it talked about another case I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: up that is tangential because you know, some people think
Speaker 1: this guy must be crazy. Volunteered, you know, after this
Speaker 1: MARSC case. Yeah, I immediately went overseas, was permanently assigned
Speaker 1: for over a three year assignment overseas, and I to
Speaker 1: Afghanistan from there again. And we were involved in this
Speaker 1: other situation when I was operations officer a recon battalion
Speaker 1: in the in the Upper Saging Valley and you know,
Speaker 1: battanian commander led to dropping a five pound bomb thirty
Speaker 1: six away from it recompetune that was being enveloped and
Speaker 1: it was a bad situation. And the Department of the
Speaker 1: Navy made some very scathing comments on that. Uh, the
Speaker 1: decision of the tank commander who who told me after
Speaker 1: that he didn't just drop a five pound bomb. He
Speaker 1: also dropped, you know, after that, reinforce it with two
Speaker 1: high Mars rockets. There's six seventy five pound warheads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so our guys little did we no, you know,
Speaker 1: I was operations officer and the fire support coordinator. These
Speaker 1: guys were in a ditch that the map didn't have
Speaker 1: this micro train and we didn't have and I s
Speaker 1: R feed showing us the you know, the live video
Speaker 1: over these guys down there. So we thought they were
Speaker 1: in the open just duking it out with taliband and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought, hey, this guy's given our own
Speaker 1: lads a death sentence. When we had four pound laser
Speaker 1: guided you know shape charges which use over pressure to
Speaker 1: kill that don't blast shrapnel three dimensionally, and we also
Speaker 1: had a TINT so we had a griffin, which is
Speaker 1: a laser guided four pound high explosive charge, and we
Speaker 1: had a healthfire ten pounds laser guided immediately available. You know.
Speaker 1: The commander Nope, I'm gonna go with five and the
Speaker 1: six D seventy five pound. You know, it's sad because
Speaker 1: these marines were not ever medically evaluated for traumatic brain injury.
Speaker 1: And horrible thing happened two years ago when young Sergeant Stevenson,
Speaker 1: who came back after he was not medically evaluated, he
Speaker 1: left the military. I was trying to get help at
Speaker 1: the v A, but nothing was in his medical record,
Speaker 1: started to self medicaid, kept telling his mom and Daddy's
Speaker 1: gonna blow his fucking brains out. And after his mom
Speaker 1: scheduled an appointment with the wizard following morning, she had
Speaker 1: an appointment before his girlfriend walked in his apartment down
Speaker 1: Louisiana April almost two years ago, and I found him hung.
Speaker 1: That a young sergeant who gotten out hung himself. So
Speaker 1: this is a reality that happens. And when commanders that
Speaker 1: aren't responsible for that, that, you know, make these statements
Speaker 1: to me directly afterwards it you know, I'm willing to
Speaker 1: sacrifice the lives of these marines, will you know? I
Speaker 1: was a Beatoon commander for its free kind of the
Speaker 1: height of the insurgency in IACK, and I've gone through
Speaker 1: many breaches and been in some bad places, and I
Speaker 1: realized Marines lies. You know, you're World war when you
Speaker 1: want to wave old glories somewhere. You know, there's guys
Speaker 1: who have to put bullets in people's heads, and that's accepted,
Speaker 1: I got it. But to needlessly make decisions that are
Speaker 1: needlessly going to kill American lies, that is immoral. And
Speaker 1: that's what that Navy report. It used words as in
Speaker 1: more role on just and professional. That commander who he
Speaker 1: didn't just you know, have a successful combat deployment as
Speaker 1: he wanted to gave him a bron star again, never
Speaker 1: fired his weapon, give a bron star. You know, it
Speaker 1: came back, got promoted to colonel, went to not just
Speaker 1: top level school, but the Naval National Defense University in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. The most prestigious one. And then it's assigned
Speaker 1: a joint staff built in the Pentagon and he's at MARSK.
Speaker 1: Is not ready to take command of a OH six
Speaker 1: command in Marsks, you know. But the the sad thing
Speaker 1: is that the Pentagon that report. You know, people say,
Speaker 1: what's the difference. Now, you know, you've had some things
Speaker 1: with Congress and the press, but this is from the Pentagon,
Speaker 1: and it is substantiates that wrong was conducted at names names,
Speaker 1: and it's not just a media and to include Nick Coffin.
Speaker 1: Nick wrote the most detailed report and applaud him for
Speaker 1: his you know, courage, and you know, our relationship goes
Speaker 1: back to two thousands sixteen when I was in grad
Speaker 1: school and you know, in this residency over in China
Speaker 1: and sent him ten thousand pages and you know, classified
Speaker 1: courtroom statements and you know, the poor guy, you know,
Speaker 1: it was largely were dapted to all the nouns. You know,
Speaker 1: he didn't know the names. And I was from Shanghai
Speaker 1: and Beijing. I was sitting there, you know, this is
Speaker 1: who this is. But you know he has written and
Speaker 1: your fans really should go back in there and read Nick.
Speaker 1: It's like a ten or twelve Yeah, and he's he's
Speaker 1: written what is like over I think it's over two
Speaker 1: word back in pages. It's a full, thorough accountant. Some
Speaker 1: people you can't say he paraphrase because he just has
Speaker 1: literally the transcripts from the courtroom, you know, scratched out
Speaker 1: secret no forms. So it's just page after page and
Speaker 1: you can't argue that's that's not a paraphrase. It's the
Speaker 1: actual verbatim transcripts. So there's a lot of people that uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they bury their head in the sand. And
Speaker 1: when you have that as an institution, and when your
Speaker 1: mindset is protect the institution at all costs, despite you
Speaker 1: know these you know, frontline foot soldiers that can be
Speaker 1: looked at as cannon fodder. That's a moral hazard in America.
Speaker 1: And it's not a you know, right looking or left
Speaker 1: wing issue. I mean, people get so politicized and like
Speaker 1: what side of the campus, and this is a national
Speaker 1: defense issue, and there's so many people that just have
Speaker 1: to tie it to a party and they don't understand it.
Speaker 1: You know, the right and the left, you know what
Speaker 1: they're attached to. It's the same dirty crooked bird. Whether
Speaker 1: you're an extreme mone either in I mean, you can't.
Speaker 1: This is America and that is the lives of Americans
Speaker 1: that are When you accept to just blow up young men,
Speaker 1: that is that's moral. And when I have to defend
Speaker 1: myself again like it at MARSOC that second case with
Speaker 1: a polygraph not from any job, but the president of
Speaker 1: American Polygraph Association, because that commander said, not once, but
Speaker 1: twice to me, Fred, I'm willing to sacrifice live these Marines,
Speaker 1: and I need to make sure you're going to do
Speaker 1: the same thing in all future occasions. I mean that
Speaker 1: that has to be accounted for. We can't have commanders,
Speaker 1: but we do. They're out there right now, still in circulation. So, Fred,
Speaker 1: how does this make you feel about the I know
Speaker 1: you're you know the I feel like you are. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to find the words. I'm sorry, but I know
Speaker 1: you know, a marine is a marine. It's it's so
Speaker 1: embedded in your identity. But I mean, after going through
Speaker 1: all of this, how do you feel about the Marine Corps,
Speaker 1: about the military as an institution? Like has it shaken
Speaker 1: your your faith? Yes? And no. I mean you see
Speaker 1: that the foundation fracture and you know you see like
Speaker 1: this is this is really bad, you know, but you
Speaker 1: I mean, they're you know, on your staff. You get
Speaker 1: Army and got Navy Special Operators and you know me
Speaker 1: as and Marine Special Opera. You're trained, you know, especially
Speaker 1: if some guy was in a commanders an extremist force,
Speaker 1: or you go through a close core battle training. You know,
Speaker 1: you taught the psychology what's going to happen in your body?
Speaker 1: And you know you talked about the enemy in extreme
Speaker 1: detail of how he his mindset and his radicalization has gone.
Speaker 1: And you know, and ye I will say this. You
Speaker 1: know I haven't said it before, but you know I
Speaker 1: last May, before I knew this was finally cleared. You know,
Speaker 1: I went back to serve in the Marines. I'm there
Speaker 1: right now. And you know, like the twelve page report
Speaker 1: when when my attorney told me, like, hey, the government
Speaker 1: contacted me and it looks like something's positive because they
Speaker 1: said it was unanimous, but they wouldn't say so. I said, well,
Speaker 1: if it is favorable, That's what I told my attorney.
Speaker 1: And see, I was forced out at the twenty seven
Speaker 1: year mark in the Marine Corps. Like I said before
Speaker 1: in this interview, it's an upper out organization. So if
Speaker 1: you don't get promoted. And I was fighting to get
Speaker 1: promoted when I then because I wanted to stay in
Speaker 1: and continue to serve, but I was. I was forced
Speaker 1: out at twenty seven year mark in two thousand and
Speaker 1: four teams. So you know, I told my attorney, I said,
Speaker 1: if this is positive and they can clear my record,
Speaker 1: I want to go back in and and serve on
Speaker 1: active duty uh in the Marine Corps again. And I've
Speaker 1: I've asked for that, and so they're they're having a
Speaker 1: panel later on this year to screen my records to
Speaker 1: see if they will promote me. And if they do,
Speaker 1: you know, I've I've formally asked the headquarters Marine Corps
Speaker 1: of promotions, you know, to return to service. I've submitted
Speaker 1: the list of available assignments that are out there, available
Speaker 1: right now to hopefully, you know, here this year, by
Speaker 1: the summer, hopefully you know, be back in uniform and serving.
Speaker 1: And I don't say that the boast, but I really
Speaker 1: mean is in special operations, you're taught to never quit,
Speaker 1: never surring, never got two the last, you know, breath
Speaker 1: in the last cartridge to the last, selling your body.
Speaker 1: You know, you fight, you don't just ignore something and
Speaker 1: you know, pull chalks and retreat. I mean, we do
Speaker 1: have immediate action drills where you know, you you have
Speaker 1: to disengage. But you know, here's something that you know, I,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm I'm in a capacity, you know,
Speaker 1: full time with the Marine Corps right now. And I see,
Speaker 1: you know, marines who joined for the right reasons and
Speaker 1: they want leadership and they need leadership. I see this
Speaker 1: young marine here today, you know he's you know, he's
Speaker 1: just so motivated, and you know, they look for leadership
Speaker 1: and you know, are you going to step back? And
Speaker 1: so I've always and guys said, yeah, the situations all
Speaker 1: mess stuff, I'm gonna get out. It's like, hey, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what the tirds they're in the military want you
Speaker 1: to do, because there that means they're going to get
Speaker 1: promoted in the military, and they kind of want some
Speaker 1: people that are malleable. It will do whatever, because those
Speaker 1: leaders know that they can manipulate them, and we need people,
Speaker 1: you know, that have strong character, not the jellyfish leadership.
Speaker 1: And so I don't think you can avoid the problem.
Speaker 1: I think you continue to attack exactly. And that's just
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. So this is unreal. So you're going
Speaker 1: back on active duty right now. I have requested officially
Speaker 1: through the Marine Corps and it's you know, they are
Speaker 1: assembling a panel to look at my case and they
Speaker 1: will see if it depends on my promotion, and then
Speaker 1: the second step after that is reinstatement. I have officially
Speaker 1: asked to I'm full time government employee for the Marine
Speaker 1: Court right now, and I just want to put the
Speaker 1: uniform back on. I had read that they recommended you
Speaker 1: for promotion to lieutenant colonel. Yes, so that is correct,
Speaker 1: and that's the Department of the Navy to the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: You know, the legal processes. They convene a panel and
Speaker 1: those officers will screen my records that that adverse information,
Speaker 1: which by the way, you know, the Marine Corps said,
Speaker 1: you know that these nothing adverse or there's no adverse
Speaker 1: administrative or judicial action. And it's like that's again, you know,
Speaker 1: people like, why are you mentioning all this? It's like
Speaker 1: because you have to. You know, it's like we live
Speaker 1: by a reconcrete and you know, and like in the
Speaker 1: Marine Corps him, you know, it's like you have to
Speaker 1: keep your honor clean. You have to call people out.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make a difference what rank, you know, but
Speaker 1: you cannot believe that people are either infallible or their
Speaker 1: rank and titles them to a free pass. That's that's unethical.
Speaker 1: How long of a process do you think it would
Speaker 1: be for them to go through with this? So they
Speaker 1: basically told me, you know, here in less than two months,
Speaker 1: that board will convene and they'll make a decision and
Speaker 1: then that say it if it is favorable for me
Speaker 1: and I believe it will because that adverse material is
Speaker 1: removed from my records. So other than that, my record
Speaker 1: stands were strong in my opinion. So say it's they
Speaker 1: rolled in and has to go through the legal channels
Speaker 1: all the way up to Subcommittee of the Senate, which
Speaker 1: proves every all the promotions. They they will look at
Speaker 1: this case on an individual basis, because I am one individual.
Speaker 1: It doesn't go through the normal process because they're going
Speaker 1: to actually, if I'm found to be you know, worthy
Speaker 1: of the promotion, They're going to backdate it to you know,
Speaker 1: when I first was not selected and I'll be promoted
Speaker 1: in the year group and my peers back in two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, So be back dating and as it says
Speaker 1: in the Department of the Navy report, and they'll provide
Speaker 1: the back pay and entitlements, which you know, that's that
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it for the money. You know. I
Speaker 1: know that Washington Post just wrote this article and like
Speaker 1: Fred Jovin is the only one that's done this as
Speaker 1: teams like well, I was the only one that continued
Speaker 1: to serve it was not promoted. So it's the little
Speaker 1: question here, Yeah, and the questionnaire that everybody else marked
Speaker 1: in an I I had submitted this application while I
Speaker 1: was still in for the purpose that I wanted to
Speaker 1: continue to serve, but I was denied twice. And then
Speaker 1: now you know the tides had changed. So you know
Speaker 1: the panel the Department nave you look at this again
Speaker 1: and uninfluenced. Like I said, there was not a a
Speaker 1: personal appearance hearing that was allowed. And you know that
Speaker 1: panel of civilian senior leaders and Department of Navy made
Speaker 1: that decision, and I'm I'm happy that it was very
Speaker 1: favorable to encourage. I'm not just pumping Nick coughing up.
Speaker 1: Read what he wrote in at the very bottom. He's
Speaker 1: got a link since the entire twelve page final report
Speaker 1: from the Department of Navy, and none of your listeners,
Speaker 1: I dare any of them can say they found something
Speaker 1: that came out of the Pentagon. It has such a
Speaker 1: scathing and DiPT and on senior officers that did something
Speaker 1: so corrupt, not just in one instant with Marine Special Operations,
Speaker 1: but on a second event in combat in two thousand
Speaker 1: eleven in Sangin Valley. You know, it just names names
Speaker 1: and lays out the situation. You read this thing and
Speaker 1: you're just like, how come the Navy they made this
Speaker 1: decision last October. You see the day at the very
Speaker 1: top of that letter, and you're like, wow, that says
Speaker 1: October eighteen, And why did they wait so long? And
Speaker 1: but they compating authority when this Marsak case happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that anybody is infallible. We shouldn't. Competing
Speaker 1: authority was Lieutenant General Jim Mattis at the time. And
Speaker 1: why you know, if you look at this report, which
Speaker 1: I haven't here in my hand, and the very last page,
Speaker 1: you have a General Counsel for the Department of Navy, uh,
Speaker 1: senior executive service lady who signed this, reviewed and approved.
Speaker 1: It's dated on the very last page January two, two
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen. That may not mean so much to everybody.
Speaker 1: That's the next business day after General Maddis. Urgin Secretary
Speaker 1: of James Maddis left office on one December this last year. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, while some people were in there, I mean,
Speaker 1: this thing just waited around. And whether it was yeah,
Speaker 1: whether it's because of the secretary who was personally involved
Speaker 1: in this in the past, right or wrong. All I'm
Speaker 1: saying is there's people's names in this report right now,
Speaker 1: it did wrong. In the Marine Corps in the Department
Speaker 1: of Defense has done nothing. What do they do? They
Speaker 1: talk about dropping bombs and saying that they're willing to
Speaker 1: sacrifice people's lives. And what's going on. Well, they've been
Speaker 1: promoted and then they are in line to get command
Speaker 1: this summer of Marine raiders at oh six commands. So
Speaker 1: you know, your listeners, you know, so what is you know,
Speaker 1: just like we did you know here these last few
Speaker 1: years with House resolution to anyone. They can go on
Speaker 1: you know, WW dot gov, h ww dot Congress dot gov.
Speaker 1: In contact. There are members of Congress and you know,
Speaker 1: get on Nick's you know, last one here from January two, nineteen.
Speaker 1: Go to the bottom, plick the link, print this off
Speaker 1: and just meet Kneecaptain kneecap with you know, they're elected
Speaker 1: official and say, hey, sons and daughters of America are
Speaker 1: being led by these guys, and what in the hell
Speaker 1: are we doing about it? Nobody has been held accountable.
Speaker 1: And I think Americans just across the board don't realize
Speaker 1: just how bad it is. And and you know you
Speaker 1: mentioned that infallibility and you know, Americans, I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of the right reasons respect their military, but
Speaker 1: with that respect comes to sort of hero worship um
Speaker 1: and the not questioning how are young men and women
Speaker 1: are being led overseas and not questioning deeply enough the
Speaker 1: inherent strategies and tactics being employed abroad. Yes, and you know,
Speaker 1: some people criticize from both sides. I don't Drump wants
Speaker 1: to leave Iraq and Afghanistan and Syrians like well, I
Speaker 1: can see a strategy of keeping forces, you know, poised
Speaker 1: in case they're needed in Iran or in China, but
Speaker 1: to just continue to fight forever, forever war you know
Speaker 1: where you know, if it were their sons or their
Speaker 1: daughters and they were not just in uniform but on
Speaker 1: the front lines, they probably have a different opinion. But
Speaker 1: as you said, it's unethical and immoral. Yes, that is correct,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, if if we're effective, it's one thing.
Speaker 1: But you know, we've been trying to get the Afghans
Speaker 1: to stand up and fight on their own, and we
Speaker 1: realize that if if it's not our money and you know,
Speaker 1: we're not over there doing the fighting, it's largely you know,
Speaker 1: a lost cause. And what is going on now after
Speaker 1: we've entered and going on to our you know, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been there for over eighteen years, and what's going on.
Speaker 1: We're entering negotiations with the Taliban. So that is not
Speaker 1: you know what's gone on seventy three years ago on
Speaker 1: the starboard side midship of the Missouri with an unconditional surrender.
Speaker 1: That's what that is, is a strategy of surrender. You know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to bow out like we did in Vietnam
Speaker 1: and and make those that you know wasted lives, money, time,
Speaker 1: the political capital of worldwide. You know, we're not respected
Speaker 1: in so I'm not a proponent of just fighting to fight.
Speaker 1: You know, when we fight, it must be effective. And
Speaker 1: you know, our strategy are again you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: criticizing the front line foot soldiers, but the strategy that
Speaker 1: has been implemented, the one that was crafted by General
Speaker 1: Petraeus and endorsed also signed off by the commanding General
Speaker 1: of the Marine Corps Combat Development Command two thousand five,
Speaker 1: which at the time was Lieutenant Real gem Madison. Uh
Speaker 1: this counterinsurgency. I we read that manual and you know
Speaker 1: it's art of being nice to people, and you know
Speaker 1: that will work in like the British utilize it effectively
Speaker 1: in Argentina at the time when when a nation wants
Speaker 1: prosperity and they want something better, that can be effective.
Speaker 1: But when you know, we're trying to prop up democracy
Speaker 1: in a place at once to real law, good luck,
Speaker 1: I just I just don't want to pay the tab,
Speaker 1: you know. And I don't think that Americas should pay
Speaker 1: the tab. They should wake up and listen to true experts.
Speaker 1: Not I remember they Special Operations Command when we first
Speaker 1: stood up Marisoft with bringing this clown Morten Center around
Speaker 1: with the three Cups of tea book and it found
Speaker 1: he's a complete sham liar. But uh, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a time and a place for you know that. But
Speaker 1: that in Afghanistan, I mean, I'm not gonna go in
Speaker 1: some of our special operations tactics and collection measures, but
Speaker 1: you meet with the tribal elders and you know those
Speaker 1: are what they are, the oldest people in the tribe.
Speaker 1: But there's a shadow government that's really in control. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we just have not utilizing effective strategy there
Speaker 1: and that that needs to change. So I feel like
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, what we're talking about right
Speaker 1: now is um sort of a reflection of what was
Speaker 1: going on in the in the U. S. Military in
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the Vietnam War. And a lot of
Speaker 1: people who weren't there at the time don't understand just
Speaker 1: like how bad off our military was after we fought
Speaker 1: that you know, very unpopular war here at home, and
Speaker 1: it was it was a brutal war abroad. I mean
Speaker 1: we lost you know, fifty thousands some odd troops and
Speaker 1: god only knows how many Vietnamese killed. Uh, And it
Speaker 1: took the military quite a while to get back on
Speaker 1: its feet. And now now we've been fighting this sustained
Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan, on in Iraq and in some ways
Speaker 1: also everywhere else. Um for you know, going on you
Speaker 1: know eighteen years. Yes, And you know, when I got
Speaker 1: out of the Marine Corps, I start a business and
Speaker 1: that taught me a lot of things that you have
Speaker 1: expenses and you have refues, you're net profit and you
Speaker 1: have to be smart about this or you're gonna fail.
Speaker 1: And uh, I went off to graduate school and it
Speaker 1: reinforced a graduate business school. You know what I was
Speaker 1: learning as an entrepreneur. And I will say this and
Speaker 1: this is a very it is a nerve with me.
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to criticize, you know, make war
Speaker 1: to be profit and loss. But I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: say I'm some Guderian and quoting Son Sue. But Son Sue,
Speaker 1: you know, hammered it out that you know, long, prolonged
Speaker 1: wars are never the best interests, you know, for any country.
Speaker 1: So you know, we have this long war that we're
Speaker 1: in right now, and when you look at it from
Speaker 1: a business model that in Vietnam in hardon me for
Speaker 1: trying to just put things in general terms because I
Speaker 1: realize I'm talking about human lives and I stood up
Speaker 1: a charity for gold Star families. This means a lot
Speaker 1: to me when I say this, and I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to be on emotional, but Vietnam, as you mentioned, we
Speaker 1: lost here in these two wars, along with other wars
Speaker 1: around the globe that we're just continuing to fight to fight.
Speaker 1: You know that we have this concept of the golden hour,
Speaker 1: and what that is is if you know, airman, soldier,
Speaker 1: sailor marine gets wounded, we generally have plans to get
Speaker 1: that you know, injured casualty off the battlefield into an
Speaker 1: operating table within an hour. We didn't have that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've had things, you've all watched mash and there's been
Speaker 1: great efforts. But now that's like a axiom that we
Speaker 1: either have this or we won't go unless it's an
Speaker 1: extreme case. Uh So I would say, you know, the
Speaker 1: seven thousand killed in action, in the tens of thousands
Speaker 1: that we've had in the last eighteen years, we would
Speaker 1: have had more deaths in these wars than we did
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. And people think, you know, the Vietnam cash
Speaker 1: account was so high. Now I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: the business model because we've had a lot more brutal injuries,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm not talking to when you also
Speaker 1: add up the addiction to opioids that the v A
Speaker 1: prescribes in the counseling and suicide, all this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and you know the cost of all that enduring from
Speaker 1: the v A. And you know the guys who get
Speaker 1: injured and maimed, you know that. And there's there's funds,
Speaker 1: a large sums transferred if guys lose eyes, there's that
Speaker 1: if you calculate the cost of that, and kind of
Speaker 1: America continue not just to have men and women brutally
Speaker 1: burned and maimed, and in the psychological when you've heard
Speaker 1: one of your lads screaming agony because even burnt or
Speaker 1: you've seen you know the you know, the Mujahideen that
Speaker 1: shipped on these you know, artillery projectiles that blast and
Speaker 1: tearing and and contaminate inside of a human being. You know,
Speaker 1: they have to amputated. I mean, it's it's horrible, and
Speaker 1: but we're not effectively when it and we're they're bleeding
Speaker 1: us dry. And when you really look at the global
Speaker 1: picture right now, what the capabilities are with China and
Speaker 1: Russia and cyber threats, and you know, we've been horsing
Speaker 1: around with people that use homemade explosives and they use
Speaker 1: poishna covs and we haven't been effective. So strategy from
Speaker 1: the get go was to wore us into a protracted
Speaker 1: conflict and wear us down by attrition. And that's just
Speaker 1: what happened with the Russians in the eighties with Reagan,
Speaker 1: and it was in a way, it was brilliant. But
Speaker 1: this right now, we have to we're at a decision point.
Speaker 1: You know, people oh no, oh, you follow the money,
Speaker 1: you trace things back, and you know, all these weapons
Speaker 1: systems are made in all fifty states, and it's such
Speaker 1: a big racket. Like Smedley Butler wrote about, now, it's
Speaker 1: it's an even far exponentially higher scale of the money
Speaker 1: that's spent the trilling. I mean, it's the largest thing
Speaker 1: that we spend our money on. So it as a
Speaker 1: business owner, you have to look like, what's the most
Speaker 1: that we spend our money on. Let's examine this, let's
Speaker 1: break it down, and how did it get that way?
Speaker 1: Who's telling us that we well, you know the reason.
Speaker 1: I mean, does anybody think that? I mean my ex wife,
Speaker 1: she's still in the Marine Corps, you know, and I
Speaker 1: believe women have a great role, but when we're losing
Speaker 1: a war, we want to put push you know, females
Speaker 1: and special operations touch the subject here. But you know,
Speaker 1: we have to find a more effective way. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying people can't be patriotic and can't serve, but we
Speaker 1: need to find a better way to do and what
Speaker 1: we're doing too to shoot straight or run faster, pick
Speaker 1: up somebody that's wounded in and get them cared for
Speaker 1: and accomplish the mission. But you know, we start we
Speaker 1: start putting in some things that's just you know, are
Speaker 1: are known, you know to be less effective. And it's
Speaker 1: just like you think, hey, why do you want to
Speaker 1: under Probably I'll tell you why here, because when somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, when they want, you know, a second career
Speaker 1: for a guy like me, is you know, starting your
Speaker 1: own business or you know, doing something on a small scale.
Speaker 1: I don't have three or four stars when I you know,
Speaker 1: will retire and you know, those guys they want and
Speaker 1: they will compromise because they need. What they need is
Speaker 1: that money for plane. So they'll listen to whatever gillibrand,
Speaker 1: Harono or mccaskell these people say or have said in
Speaker 1: the past. And because they have approved this stuff in
Speaker 1: the House Armed Service Committee and the Synate Armed Service
Speaker 1: Committee approves the promotions of these folks. So you know,
Speaker 1: they want people to be promoted because those are the
Speaker 1: guys that they're going to go back to when they're retired,
Speaker 1: and they're going to go back to the Pentagon on
Speaker 1: behalf of Boeing and Cockeyed in general dynamics. And and
Speaker 1: they're not making some pocket change or couch changed there.
Speaker 1: They're making bankroll cons out in Fairfax, Virginia and they're
Speaker 1: driving a Jaguar. Yeah, well it's not just Fairfax. I
Speaker 1: mean these people think on a scale that none of
Speaker 1: us do. And they have homes not just there in
Speaker 1: the Beltway, but they have something up in the Hampton's
Speaker 1: or down in Florida. I mean they we don't think
Speaker 1: about that. We don't think you know, boats, and hey,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna need my presence, that's a first class
Speaker 1: plane ticket. And you contact some of these people and see,
Speaker 1: I mean it is like a celebrity lifestyle. I mean,
Speaker 1: Robin Leechwood blush about how these guys get around. It's
Speaker 1: a it's all predicated upon deploying soldiers to fight a
Speaker 1: useless or you know, an unwinnable war indefinitely. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's the immoral and unethical aspect of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily wrong for an American industrialist to help
Speaker 1: the United States win a war. But when it's just
Speaker 1: this grind that goes on forever, and these guys are
Speaker 1: getting rich by stuff in dollar bills or maybe I
Speaker 1: should say a hundred dollar bills into their pockets every day,
Speaker 1: that's immoral and unethical. Yes, and you're right, I'm the
Speaker 1: first one to advocate in people accuse me and a
Speaker 1: court of law during our mar sock trial being a
Speaker 1: gear queer. And I'm all about technology because you you
Speaker 1: must use technology or you'll be destroyed by it. You
Speaker 1: have to innovate in advance, and that is necessary. But
Speaker 1: how we have, you know, made it a cottage industry
Speaker 1: is entirely different. Yes, Fred, this has been an amazing
Speaker 1: episode of this podcast. And I think if any of
Speaker 1: the staff officers in our military, or pretty much anyone
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Certainly are politicians listen to this podcast,
Speaker 1: I think they're going to have a freaking stroke in
Speaker 1: their chair. Yeah, well, you know, we have to be
Speaker 1: honest with ourselves. Look in the mirror and say, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, is what he's saying the truth? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know we see. I mean, look at the guys
Speaker 1: coming into Pentagon pushing these programs you know you have.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at who makes F thirty five and
Speaker 1: they want to sell that to a version of that
Speaker 1: to China, the People's revolic to China, And I mean
Speaker 1: these look at the names of the you know, check
Speaker 1: that out, just research it. Look at the names of
Speaker 1: the board members, research at Death thirty five and look
Speaker 1: and you know see they there's intentions to sell that
Speaker 1: thing to our enemies. And look at all the board members.
Speaker 1: You'll find you know, head of you know, naval intelligence
Speaker 1: and all that. I mean, these people know better. It
Speaker 1: actually goes all the way back to Richard c. Cord,
Speaker 1: who is involved in some of the early tech transfers
Speaker 1: during the Clinton administration. Yeah, it's this is reality, and
Speaker 1: you know it's it is driven Smedley Butler was talking about,
Speaker 1: you know how these companies are just feeding on greed,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's a conflict of interest to you know,
Speaker 1: those who are fighting the war. But now we're willing.
Speaker 1: And these are senior military officers and senior leaders on
Speaker 1: the civilian sector of the Department of Defense in the
Speaker 1: homeland security. I mean just that instance alone, just from
Speaker 1: have your listeners look up the thirty five program, the
Speaker 1: most advanced fighter you know, fifth generation fire that you
Speaker 1: know the United States has, and we have intentions to
Speaker 1: develop a version for the China. It's national suicide for
Speaker 1: no other reason than greed. Yeah, their purpose of us
Speaker 1: doing that. The Chinese are not our friends. And I
Speaker 1: mean the future is America and China and you know
Speaker 1: one is going to rise at the top and want
Speaker 1: to dominate. And it's been stated this is not Yeah,
Speaker 1: read their plan and it's it is, you know, something
Speaker 1: I'm deeply involved at presently in in my research. It's
Speaker 1: it's a serious, serious situation. I'd like to have you
Speaker 1: back on another time to talk about that about China,
Speaker 1: the rise of China, because that's something that I'm also
Speaker 1: very very interested in, and that's kind of getting into
Speaker 1: the next fight, what's over the next horizon. And I
Speaker 1: think we both know that, but America has been slowed
Speaker 1: a wake up to that fact. Yes, it's not just
Speaker 1: economic with China. And love to talk about it more
Speaker 1: and I'll make sure everything's kept unclassified level. And it's
Speaker 1: it's something that America really needs to understand. And uh,
Speaker 1: these people who are experts like Dr Michael Pillsbury's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some of some of these people really know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And there are smart people and they're not just out
Speaker 1: there perpetuating myths. The hud Year Marathon is his book
Speaker 1: that's worth reading. Yes, yes, and you read that and
Speaker 1: you wonder, Okay, why have we been wasting over trillion
Speaker 1: dollars in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. When that's gotten us,
Speaker 1: you know, it hasn't gotten us any further down the field.
Speaker 1: And we you know, in the military they always talked
Speaker 1: about metrics and data and measurements of the activeness. And
Speaker 1: you know, wait a second, how come when we use
Speaker 1: all this analysis, this is scotting us nowhere? Well, there
Speaker 1: are a partner long term, and hey, it's be honest,
Speaker 1: be honest, because you know, the people of the America.
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many distractions in American life, and
Speaker 1: people aren't listening to programs such as yours and reading
Speaker 1: things that are that are factual. And you know some people,
Speaker 1: you know, China and Russia and other surrogates of their's.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a you know, the North Korea is
Speaker 1: there's still a huge threat that is a you know
Speaker 1: on the payroll of you know, the People's Republican China,
Speaker 1: and you know that's it's going on. People are trying
Speaker 1: to as as you well know, people are trying to
Speaker 1: buy governments, mainly the Chinese, for their buy resources from
Speaker 1: all across Asia, the Pacific especially. You want to push
Speaker 1: us out of South Korea, push us out of the
Speaker 1: Philippines push us out of Japan. Yes, it's it is.
Speaker 1: It's something that you know, it's deeply in what I'm
Speaker 1: what I'm involved in right now. So i'd love to
Speaker 1: talk about the Yeah, yeah, we'll have to. We'll have
Speaker 1: to set that aside for another podcast because it's such
Speaker 1: a huge, huge topic. Yeah, this definitely sounds like it
Speaker 1: to be continued from here. I had one last question
Speaker 1: to ask you, actually before you wrap things up. You
Speaker 1: were kind of hinting at it earlier on the interview,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to, you know, get into a
Speaker 1: side tangent here, but I figured we'll get into it
Speaker 1: now a little bit. Um. You're talking about war crimes
Speaker 1: in different parts of the military. I'm sure you're familiar
Speaker 1: with it. I just wanted to hear your take on
Speaker 1: what's going on with Chief Eddie Gallagher, former Navy seal.
Speaker 1: A very different case from yours because these are fellow
Speaker 1: Navy seals accusing him of war crimes. But I just
Speaker 1: wanted to hear what you think of it. You know
Speaker 1: that she brought that up. I haven't involved in the case.
Speaker 1: I've seen it in the headlines and that caused me
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know what, I had a very
Speaker 1: good close friend for you know, since the start of
Speaker 1: the war. We went he's a frogman, retired Navy seal officer,
Speaker 1: and we went to a school tactical are controlled party
Speaker 1: to learn how to control air strikes. That's why we connected.
Speaker 1: Many years ago. He was involved in a or crime
Speaker 1: allegation and so we've stayed in touch, and it it
Speaker 1: ruined his health and I gonna mention his name, but
Speaker 1: it's these there's nobody that gets out unscathed when something
Speaker 1: like this happens. And so I called my buddy and
Speaker 1: I say, hey, tell me what's going on, because he's
Speaker 1: you know, still closely in tune with the teams, and
Speaker 1: let me know, hey, this is a inside the team's
Speaker 1: is kind of retribution is steal chief. He was his
Speaker 1: petuned ard and he was a hard ass, and you know,
Speaker 1: some people didn't like the way he was doing and
Speaker 1: so you know, he he does some things that people
Speaker 1: may found questionable. And I have a re enlisted ceremony
Speaker 1: in your dead body, and you know, let's not confuse.
Speaker 1: You know, some things that maybe imprudent as far as
Speaker 1: judgment and today's modern air with a war crime that
Speaker 1: somebody could I mean, you know, born and raised and
Speaker 1: retired and went back to Kansas, and you've got a
Speaker 1: marine excuse me, an army soldier, uh sitting in prison
Speaker 1: for twenty years based on what somebody said verbally. And
Speaker 1: you know he did to make a split second decision.
Speaker 1: The guy who was coming after him a motorcycle and
Speaker 1: one of his soldiers fired, but he authorized a shot.
Speaker 1: Working on that story. Actually yeah, And so what you know,
Speaker 1: my case is when when you talk about Chief Eddie
Speaker 1: Gallagher and these other people have to be split decisions
Speaker 1: or they may you know show, but then you look
Speaker 1: at the macro issue of our Department of Defense and
Speaker 1: the sons and daughters in America, they have to make decisions.
Speaker 1: Are are we going to have the best quality of
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the jobs that people get the most?
Speaker 1: The future is like information technology, and you know we
Speaker 1: need smart people they can do stuff like that effectively
Speaker 1: in the military that are enthusiastic and want to go
Speaker 1: to work. But you know, what are we going to
Speaker 1: be left with when the best the people who are
Speaker 1: you know, well educated and they you know, research things,
Speaker 1: that read newspapers, they keep in tune of subjects and
Speaker 1: they see that, like, wow, these guys are getting railroaded.
Speaker 1: Do I want to send my son? And they're gonna
Speaker 1: totally discourage. They're gonna push that child into a college
Speaker 1: program far away from ever having to serve in the military,
Speaker 1: because they know that the military doesn't stand for their
Speaker 1: own and that is the moral hazard. Is when people
Speaker 1: say things and you know those guys in Hadita Alice
Speaker 1: Jack Murthy once was served in the Marine in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: But I'm talking about you know, seal teammates that would
Speaker 1: say something like that against you know, fellow brother just
Speaker 1: because you know, it gets tough and you're criticizing, you know,
Speaker 1: his judgment. Now, I mean when America sees like you
Speaker 1: can web search and see Chief Eddie Gallagher and his
Speaker 1: dress blues shackled like a war criminal being taken into
Speaker 1: a you know, a brig at mer Mark, California. I mean,
Speaker 1: the optics of that, and you know, there's a punishment
Speaker 1: fit the crime and being well incard. Interesting to see
Speaker 1: what happens in the court martial because if this is true,
Speaker 1: that it's retribution within the teams for you know, some
Speaker 1: some harsh leadership. Two seals are about the perjured themselves
Speaker 1: in a court of law and say that they witnessed
Speaker 1: this guy murder a detainee in cold blood. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: in I'm not trying, I don't. I don't have all
Speaker 1: those details. And there's things that probably happened but didn't
Speaker 1: happen that I don't. I don't have full visibility on
Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to say that I you know,
Speaker 1: I have a crystal ball, and you know it would
Speaker 1: be it would be something that you know, the jury members.
Speaker 1: You know. The one thing though, you know from my
Speaker 1: experience is the jury member is not completely unbiased when
Speaker 1: it's within an organization that you know has especially if
Speaker 1: they made comments and they've taken accident, they've hauled a
Speaker 1: guy off in jail for pretrial confinement. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: kind of extreme if they thought this guy is gonna run,
Speaker 1: which highly doubt that. I'm not the convenient authority. But
Speaker 1: you know, when people have taken positions, you know, they
Speaker 1: usually don't want to be criticized for the the decisions
Speaker 1: that they made. So and those are people that influence
Speaker 1: promotions and assignments, and especially when I'm saying it's a
Speaker 1: crime be criticized for saying this is what I believe
Speaker 1: to be the truth. When when guys getting married and
Speaker 1: have kids and they're in a system that you know,
Speaker 1: they can either promote them or not promote them, I mean,
Speaker 1: have a little bit more risk, and you know there's
Speaker 1: there could be influenced a little bit more. So do
Speaker 1: you think that's all within the military court system. I
Speaker 1: mean it's supposed to be a jury of your peers, um,
Speaker 1: and I guess your peers in this case would be
Speaker 1: fellow service members rather than civilians. Though yes, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd rather it be retired combat veterans, you know, so
Speaker 1: I'd rather that Eddie Gallagher have you know team you know,
Speaker 1: people from ut t s and combat veterans who have
Speaker 1: have seen good and bad. Because what you're saying now
Speaker 1: in today's day and age, you know, maybe somebody that
Speaker 1: fought you know, horrible enemies, whether it's Korea or Vietnam
Speaker 1: or you know, World War Two. You you you know who
Speaker 1: are seals or ut team members, they probably have a
Speaker 1: little bit more understanding of you know, how our our
Speaker 1: our enemies, how ruthless they are, and uh and they're uninfluenced.
Speaker 1: But to you know, I'm just trying to get more
Speaker 1: of a jury of your peers, people that understand. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to say we need leniency, but it needs
Speaker 1: to be uninfluenced and impartial and unbiased and fair. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: it definitely does. My My only concern would be that,
Speaker 1: you know, like said, I was a former ranger. Let's
Speaker 1: say you brought me in on a Rangers court martial.
Speaker 1: I think there'd be a predilection towards protecting the dignity
Speaker 1: of the unit, uh and not tarnishing the unit's image
Speaker 1: because you know that's kind of the unit where I
Speaker 1: grew up. Um that. But I mean, our our justice
Speaker 1: system is imperfect. I mean there's none of us have
Speaker 1: quite figured that one out. Yeah, well, if we can
Speaker 1: put a man on the moon, you know we can
Speaker 1: figure out you know, lawyers can. I'm not a lawyer,
Speaker 1: but you know there's that waw dear process where they
Speaker 1: try to ensure that there's not this bias nous. And
Speaker 1: but I think definitely finding people, you know, there should
Speaker 1: be way to find somebody that is the best in
Speaker 1: regards to They don't want to put the institutions, you know,
Speaker 1: interests above the individual on trial and that's in the
Speaker 1: civilian court. That is the main thing is you're trying
Speaker 1: to get somebody is you know, in impartial and has
Speaker 1: no bias. That's that's an interesting thing for military justice.
Speaker 1: I think you know it's a system that is flawed. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: as Jack said earlier, this has definitely been a great episode.
Speaker 1: I opening for a lot of people and very candid
Speaker 1: and and we'll definitely do a fourth appearance from you
Speaker 1: and probably more in the future. Uh and the next
Speaker 1: time focus more on China. It sounds like it'd be
Speaker 1: a great discussion. Yeah, I'd love it, and thank you
Speaker 1: so much. And Jack, you guys have you know, had
Speaker 1: the courage. And I'll make some comparisons some other media
Speaker 1: sources that will print some things, some won't, but some
Speaker 1: have taken eighteen months in every editor on their staff
Speaker 1: to review things were so cautious. And I mean, you
Speaker 1: guys look at the facts when I give you declassified
Speaker 1: courtroom information to me, um, you guys have done a
Speaker 1: tremendous job at uncovering the facts and in more detail
Speaker 1: through news rep than any other source that's out there.
Speaker 1: And encourage the listeners that they Nick Coffin has written
Speaker 1: all these articles about the marsk seven if people want to,
Speaker 1: you know, not the facts and read what came out
Speaker 1: of a courtroom. It was largely closed to the media.
Speaker 1: When you see all those transcripts, that says secret, no
Speaker 1: foreign at the top. That's everything that the media didn't hear,
Speaker 1: which means that when you read about the saying that
Speaker 1: that was just a gun battle, why was this classified? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was my question, and well that's that was the
Speaker 1: military court process that the media continually get kept getting
Speaker 1: ushered out too. And you think, like, how what kind
Speaker 1: of picture of that painted these guys when everything that
Speaker 1: was declassified and that had the media there was negative
Speaker 1: was completely one side and slanders and how how do
Speaker 1: these guys get pictured painted in the media. And that's
Speaker 1: why we couldn't get jobs afterwards. It's very destructive. Guys
Speaker 1: got cancer and diabetes and unemployment. That that is something
Speaker 1: that is terribly affected us. And you guys, I'm not
Speaker 1: just giving you mad props. You guys have done so much.
Speaker 1: When I say two and it's like a word document
Speaker 1: pages information. Yeah, and uh, I sent Nick of you know,
Speaker 1: recon paddle. That's good thing. I just said that you
Speaker 1: know now that we are exonerated and it's been substantiated
Speaker 1: by the Pentagon. You know, I really you know, I
Speaker 1: know a lot because he increased awareness. You know, when
Speaker 1: we had a bill up there in Congress, not a bill,
Speaker 1: but a House resolution. Uh, you guys were covering that,
Speaker 1: you know from the you know, the courtroom. That was
Speaker 1: a very helpful and raising awareness and you know, a
Speaker 1: call to action across America that that was effective, you know,
Speaker 1: and very very rarely is a you know, you know,
Speaker 1: a guy from the trenches. You know, that's a bootstrap
Speaker 1: and some idea or business you know, you know, lead
Speaker 1: to something like this. But you know, this was a
Speaker 1: complete success. And uh, you know they I just encourage
Speaker 1: you guys to get your hands on that twelve page
Speaker 1: Pentagon report and see what they're really talking about. It's
Speaker 1: it's very idle thing and shocking. Thank you, Fred so much.
Speaker 1: And you know the next time we have you on,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of these geo strategic issues and
Speaker 1: um we can you know, put this you know, controversy
Speaker 1: to bed. Uh And you know, I'm glad that you
Speaker 1: and you and the men of Marsac are going to
Speaker 1: be able to move on from this and uh we
Speaker 1: start talking about some more important things. Yeah sounds good,
Speaker 1: and thank you again, Jack. Yeah. Sorry, I don't mean
Speaker 1: more important. This is important, but you know what I mean, Fred, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is is talking about the review
Speaker 1: process for stuff. It reminded me just seeing on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Totally separate issue, but I saw that Jack Carr, who
Speaker 1: we had in here, Navy c O. He's trying to
Speaker 1: put out his follow up fiction novel and there, you know,
Speaker 1: the review process is holding up that book from coming out.
Speaker 1: He had a release date and everything now used to
Speaker 1: push it back. And it's just always a long review
Speaker 1: process for every you know, my, my, my experience with that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, some of these guys who hold security clearances
Speaker 1: or continue to they put their books, even fiction books,
Speaker 1: through d D review. Uh. My experience with d D
Speaker 1: reviews that it's it's politicized. You know, if you're putting
Speaker 1: out something that makes d o D look good, they'll
Speaker 1: have that back to you in a week. If you're
Speaker 1: saying something that maybe they don't want out there, they're
Speaker 1: gonna just sit on it. Um they went through. I
Speaker 1: submitted an article through d O D Review UM because
Speaker 1: the people I interviewed, UH, they requested I put it
Speaker 1: through d D Review. I said, sure, you know, if
Speaker 1: that's your condition, you know, we'll we'll do that. UM
Speaker 1: D O D dragged their feet, dragged their feet, dragged
Speaker 1: their feet. And I've told him. I was like, look, man,
Speaker 1: it's been like what five months or six months or something,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1: And they got it back to me, and I was shocked.
Speaker 1: They went through and just took a hacks out of
Speaker 1: the article. They redacted things that they had previously declassified
Speaker 1: that are published in another book. I'm like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: So I went through UM with a lawyer and we
Speaker 1: filed an appeal and they've been sitting on that appeal
Speaker 1: for I mean, we must we're probably going on two years,
Speaker 1: you know at this point. So they're just it's like
Speaker 1: I said, it's just politicized. They're just sitting on it
Speaker 1: just because they don't want to deal with it, even
Speaker 1: though they declassified all that maybe not all, but the
Speaker 1: vast majority of it has been previously declassified, and I
Speaker 1: guess they just don't want me to publish it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the deal is. But my favorite is
Speaker 1: when I look at Robin Nil's book and Seal Team
Speaker 1: six is blacked out every single time. Yeah. Then the
Speaker 1: whole buckets, that's the one thing it's stacked everywhere. And
Speaker 1: then I had a mission with black Yeah it's uh,
Speaker 1: there are some goofy things that happened. Yeah, any mention
Speaker 1: of Jay Sock they'll black out. Um. But then there's
Speaker 1: other things that they'll leave in that are really weird. Um.
Speaker 1: The CIA, when they're their public review review board goes
Speaker 1: through things. They do weird things too, sometimes, like the
Speaker 1: term special what is that they left the special Operations
Speaker 1: they will black out, but special Forces they'll let you use.
Speaker 1: It's weird man. Yeah, yeah, I mean because anybody who
Speaker 1: listens to what we do or reads up on I mean,
Speaker 1: they know what they know the terminology, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, it gets silly. Um. Next episode, we
Speaker 1: have Mark you Blanca coming on, who wrote a great
Speaker 1: book on Vietnam journalists. That's gonna be the next one. Uh,
Speaker 1: And we have a lot of other good stuff in
Speaker 1: the horizon. I actually just mentioned Grab O'Neil. He'll be
Speaker 1: on at some point next month. I mentioned Mike Schwitz
Speaker 1: will be on next month. Um. Yeah, so we have
Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff on the horizon um before
Speaker 1: we and and actually like to hear just from Mike
Speaker 1: what it was like to attend a Super Bowl. I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not even an NFL fan, but it'd be
Speaker 1: interesting just to know the whole atmosphere. And I need
Speaker 1: to sit down also and make a list of other
Speaker 1: people i'd like to have on. Yeah, and uh and
Speaker 1: start and reach out to some people. I'm working on
Speaker 1: a few different people here and there, but yeah, Marches
Speaker 1: is mainly open and yeah, I mean it's funny because
Speaker 1: I was talking about this with Brandon Web yesterday and
Speaker 1: more and more it's less me reaching out and a
Speaker 1: lot of people coming to us that want to come on,
Speaker 1: And it just shows we have more people reaching out
Speaker 1: to us than we have time. Then we're able to schedule. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if they're good, you know, we'll get like Mark
Speaker 1: marcut you Blanca. He came to us and was interested
Speaker 1: and I looked at the book and it's really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that type of stuff just shows that the show
Speaker 1: is growing and it's you know, has a bigger reach
Speaker 1: and I love to see that makes it makes my
Speaker 1: job easier to be honest, but it's also uh just
Speaker 1: compliments what we do. So wrapping things up here though,
Speaker 1: be sure to check out Create Club. We have different
Speaker 1: tiers of membership depending on how prepared you want to be,
Speaker 1: and gift options are available as well. Scott Whitner from
Speaker 1: the Load Out Room, Army Ranger, Drew Wallace who you've
Speaker 1: heard on the show, and all the other guys from
Speaker 1: Hurricane involved with Great Club are putting together great gear
Speaker 1: custom made for us, everything from sunglass cases to eat
Speaker 1: c bags and other man only products. It's a club
Speaker 1: four men by men. You check that all out at
Speaker 1: Create Club dot Us. Once again, that's Create Club dot Us.
Speaker 1: Also as a reminder for those listening, now is the
Speaker 1: time to sign up for the spec Ops Channel. That's
Speaker 1: our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries and
Speaker 1: interviews covering the most exciting military content today. The spec
Speaker 1: Ops channel premier show, Training Cell follows former Special Operations
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Speaker 1: this content by subscribing to the spec ops channel at
Speaker 1: spec ops channel dot com take advantage of a membership
Speaker 1: for only four nine a month. That's spec ops channel
Speaker 1: dot com. And this is uh, pure speculation, but just
Speaker 1: from a conversation I had yesterday, there may be in
Speaker 1: the future some like new content coming there. I know.
Speaker 1: For you know, it's a lot of older stuff that
Speaker 1: some of you haven't seen, some of you have seen.
Speaker 1: We may be shooting new stuff in the future. I
Speaker 1: don't know. This is speculation, speculation, you know something that
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's something I heard that, that's all.
Speaker 1: But it'd be cool to see some new content there.
Speaker 1: But if you're not a member, there's hours upon hours
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Speaker 1: up today. Last the news up financial report exclusive information
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Speaker 1: access to our team of experts and analysts. And you
Speaker 1: can check that all out on the fin rep tab
Speaker 1: at the top of the news rep dot com. It's
Speaker 1: separate from signing up for a news rep membership, so
Speaker 1: you'll just want to click on that fin rep tab
Speaker 1: and sign up at the news rep dot com. And also,
Speaker 1: if you haven't checked out the Power of Thought podcast,
Speaker 1: our latest guest was Jeff Nicholson, who's one of the
Speaker 1: heads of Vyner Media. And I didn't realize this because
Speaker 1: I you might know that we're partnering with Vyner Media
Speaker 1: for some stuff. I didn't really. It's Gary Vaynerchuk's company.
Speaker 1: You didn't know that. I know. I I just heard
Speaker 1: the name vayner Media. I didn't make the connection. I
Speaker 1: had no idea, So you know, it's cool to know
Speaker 1: that and to know that we have that connection. And
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson's story is pretty cool because he was one
Speaker 1: of the first guys hired by Gary Vaynerchuck, so uh yeah,
Speaker 1: go look up the Power Thought podcast. That was a
Speaker 1: great one. Cond have Carluis on the next episode. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to pre order my book. Yes, comes out
Speaker 1: in April. Yeah, it's coming up on us fast. Um.
Speaker 1: We're finalizing all the like little details of the book
Speaker 1: right now, the picture inserts and all that kind of
Speaker 1: good stuff. And at the end, towards the end of
Speaker 1: the month this month, um, I'll be narrating the audio book.
Speaker 1: That's the process. It's gonna be a process. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a someone who's narrated audio books. I've done too.
Speaker 1: So far, I've done two and a half because one
Speaker 1: was a revised edition of a previoud. How long does
Speaker 1: it take to do a whole book, like a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. It's hard to say because it depends on
Speaker 1: the amount of time you're putting in the way I
Speaker 1: would just I would put it though, for like every
Speaker 1: hour of actual audio content. If you're not. I I
Speaker 1: was gonna say it takes about four hours for every hour,
Speaker 1: but you're not editing it. You're not doing that problem.
Speaker 1: So I would say for every hour, it's going to
Speaker 1: take you about two to three hours. Yeah, because you're
Speaker 1: gonna want to get it perfect, and it is. You've
Speaker 1: seen it, even just reading things here and there. It's
Speaker 1: tough to get it perfect. And yeah, I mean for
Speaker 1: me the editing stuff, but if you have an engineer
Speaker 1: there in studio, you're gonna notice that that they catch
Speaker 1: mistakes you don't catch. And when I record, I listened
Speaker 1: back to the audio. I have my own like weird
Speaker 1: lisps and mispronunciations and things like that. People. I remember
Speaker 1: people commenting on on you and I going back and
Speaker 1: forth on skism and schism. Schism, schism. It's archaic, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember we looked it up. But I still insist
Speaker 1: that everybody says schism. I have actually caught a lot
Speaker 1: of people though. This is when I catch people say
Speaker 1: all the time, uh, is that the word is hyperbole?
Speaker 1: People say hyper all the time because it reads that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it reads hyper I remember a college press wood who
Speaker 1: said hyperopitomy epitomey Epitome. Does anybody say that there's there's
Speaker 1: always those words like that I pronounced al Qaeda al queda. No,
Speaker 1: I don't, but there should be a queu. Right. When
Speaker 1: we used to have um Derek on he would always
Speaker 1: say boco Raham instead of Boko Haram. And it's like
Speaker 1: he's an expert on the subject, but he always say
Speaker 1: boco ram. So goddamnit. Alquateus aliquates are out there. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, man Murphy's Law. It's up for pre order.
Speaker 1: The audio book is up for pre order already, even
Speaker 1: though we haven't recorded it yet, but we will unless
Speaker 1: I get hit by a media right. Um. So it's
Speaker 1: all coming along. I'm excited for it. You also keep
Speaker 1: in mind wrote the book, so you're not gonna have
Speaker 1: that issue of I've had the issue where like I
Speaker 1: don't know what's in my own book, Well, I don't
Speaker 1: know what this word is there. I spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time googling, because I mean, you guys might know
Speaker 1: I've mentioned anything of the podcast. The last audio book
Speaker 1: that I narrated was a raw vegan audio book, so
Speaker 1: there are tons of foods in there. I never heard
Speaker 1: of this is this is a little embarrassing on my end.
Speaker 1: I had my editor, um wonderful woman doing a super job.
Speaker 1: She comes back to me after reading the manuscript and
Speaker 1: she's like, chack, what does balls defalaide mean? Like, oh boy,
Speaker 1: and I think I I had to like tactfully, uh explained.
Speaker 1: Defalaide is a is a tactical term describing the low ground.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean it's not everybody's gonna know
Speaker 1: all these all these these these I certainly don't crass
Speaker 1: military military euphanisms, colorful metaphors. Yeah, I mean I've I've
Speaker 1: been put in the knowe of like a lot of
Speaker 1: different acronyms. Um, you know, because of this show. I'll
Speaker 1: be the first to admit I don't read every single
Speaker 1: book of the people that we have. I read any
Speaker 1: of them as I can, um, but unfortunately, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: like some sometimes we just don't have I don't have time.
Speaker 1: I also, I'll be like the first admit I have
Speaker 1: a very uh I'm not quite like like him, but
Speaker 1: I have like a Larry King style of interviewing where
Speaker 1: if you watch old Larry King interviews, he's he's great,
Speaker 1: he gets great information out of the people. But half
Speaker 1: the time you're like, Larry King doesn't even know who
Speaker 1: the funk he's speaking to, Like he doesn't he doesn't
Speaker 1: even know what like he but but he still manages.
Speaker 1: If you ask the right questions, you'll get people to
Speaker 1: open up with that stuff. But sometimes I'm like, he
Speaker 1: clearly has no knowledge of this subject. I am sometimes
Speaker 1: that guy. And Larry King also speaks to a very broad,
Speaker 1: mainstream audience, and this podcast is more of a niche audience,
Speaker 1: and they kind of expect us to Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: you're here. Yeah, well, thank you. I'm not the expert
Speaker 1: by any means you know anything. They're expertise in eighties
Speaker 1: hair metal, that's what I'm an expert hit. I'm not
Speaker 1: a military expert. My favorite was when Larry King interviewed
Speaker 1: uh roseand and he was like, the Internet as a
Speaker 1: viable means for political discourse? Is it? Is this the future?
Speaker 1: And uh he admitted that he's never used the internet.
Speaker 1: He's like, the wife loves it. What do you do?
Speaker 1: He was like, you hit a little buttons. She's like, really,
Speaker 1: you host the show never used it. I was had
Speaker 1: a friend's birthday party with a cinematographer that my wife
Speaker 1: works with, and actually I was trying to convince her
Speaker 1: to come on the podcast because I was like, we
Speaker 1: don't have enough female representation because there just aren't very
Speaker 1: many females soft veterans. Now, yeah there, I mean as
Speaker 1: to think there will be in twenty years, but there
Speaker 1: aren't right now. I was trying. I was like, we
Speaker 1: need some we need some girl power. If you want
Speaker 1: to come on and we can shoot the ship we
Speaker 1: get female combat veterans though, well Amber Smith who just
Speaker 1: had a kid, maybe we'll get her. Congratulations Amber, that's awesome. Um,
Speaker 1: but no, we still don't have like very many. It's
Speaker 1: not like a deliberate, discriminatory sort of thing. It's you know,
Speaker 1: until very recently, women have not been permitted in combat arms. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think this podcast twenty years from now, we'll
Speaker 1: probably have a lot more women on because of that.
Speaker 1: Because now you think there'll be a software radio and
Speaker 1: what would it be It would be twenty nine maybe.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm almost like of the mind, like
Speaker 1: I'll just do this out of spite just a lot
Speaker 1: because it passes people off, you know. Um, So I
Speaker 1: mean I'll probably still be flapping my gums from you
Speaker 1: know you've been listening to Self Red Radio. New episodes
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