Speaker 1: Well that's the normal way. This is my way. Well,
Speaker 1: it's all saying, well they will change every day. It
Speaker 1: seem fair wasted away place. Well the face is all
Speaker 1: so awful. Well, i drive all line to take it
Speaker 1: back home. I'm a cowboy. Want to see it hold
Speaker 1: side and I want it what is get around? Some
Speaker 1: times I sleep some time that all the four games,
Speaker 1: but at the end I mean away. You're their separate
Speaker 1: ways some time to till the day by the bottle
Speaker 1: that you drink, and times when you alone, what you
Speaker 1: do is say no, cowboy's dead, hold side and wont
Speaker 1: is that? A little string on my back might not
Speaker 1: make it back up here? And I'm still standing. So
Speaker 1: you guys may be wondering why we're starting off the
Speaker 1: show with that piece and what it is. Well, that
Speaker 1: is actually former Navy cl Ron Bellen playing some acoustic guitar.
Speaker 1: He posted that on his Facebook on January just a
Speaker 1: few days ago, him doing a little bon Jovi Dead
Speaker 1: or Alive, which is pretty cool. But the unfortunate news
Speaker 1: is that Ron, who you may remember from the show,
Speaker 1: has passed away. I believe from a heart attack. From
Speaker 1: what we're hearing. Anybody who's met Ron know that he
Speaker 1: was an absolutely massive guy, so the heart attack, unfortunately
Speaker 1: is not the biggest surprise in terms of just his size.
Speaker 1: Ron was a Navy Seal Master Chief, serving for twenty
Speaker 1: five years from his call sign, as you may remember,
Speaker 1: was Reaper oh one. Uh. Shortly after retiring from the Navy,
Speaker 1: he launched Reaper Outdoors. He was an avid hunter and
Speaker 1: started his hunting show, Survived the Hunt. That's why he
Speaker 1: was on with us for the first time, back on
Speaker 1: episode to um promote Survived the Hunt and promote Reaper Outdoors.
Speaker 1: I still actually have some of the stuff he sent me,
Speaker 1: like he he waants a Reaper Outdoors hot sauce that
Speaker 1: is still at my parents house. Have seen it a
Speaker 1: the refrigerator. Uh. And then he was back on episode
Speaker 1: one thirty nine just to discuss what he was up to. Uh.
Speaker 1: Really great guy. And I did get to meet Ron
Speaker 1: in person at Shot Show. You may even have jack.
Speaker 1: He was at the Ranger up party, which you might
Speaker 1: remember from that year at Shot Show. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I've only been that party one year and I think
Speaker 1: that was the year I was there. Yeah, Ron was
Speaker 1: there and and was really nice in person, and the
Speaker 1: one story that I do have. It's pretty funny. I
Speaker 1: was not there for this because I left that party
Speaker 1: a little bit early. But the next day I woke
Speaker 1: up and I was in the same room as you remember,
Speaker 1: if you've been listening this long, uh as Jim West
Speaker 1: we were. We were sleeping in the same room of
Speaker 1: this house where all of us were staying at that
Speaker 1: you know, at that time for shot show, and Jim
Speaker 1: was telling me that some guy at the Ranger Up
Speaker 1: party was trying to start ship with him, and Jim
Speaker 1: was like ready to fight this guy, according to him,
Speaker 1: And the way that Jim described this to me what
Speaker 1: went down. He was standing in front of like a
Speaker 1: large TV cabinet as he's telling me this, and he's like,
Speaker 1: and then you got Ron belling with me, and Ron
Speaker 1: is about the size of this fucking cabinet. Time and
Speaker 1: again He's like, at this point, this guy didn't want
Speaker 1: to mess with me. So like, that's the one kind
Speaker 1: of funny story I had, because Ron was just like
Speaker 1: a huge guy. And I actually think I mentioned him
Speaker 1: a few episodes ago because when we had Carmen on,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that we had another guy with I Patch on,
Speaker 1: which was Dan Crenshaw. And then I think I mentioned
Speaker 1: that the other guy with a I patually had on
Speaker 1: was Ron Bellen. How did how did Ron lose his eye?
Speaker 1: That I don't know, but I mean if you look
Speaker 1: back at those pictures I posted one of him, uh
Speaker 1: out hunting with the I pack. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: I never got the chance to meet him. I mean
Speaker 1: I think he I would have recalled if I met somebody,
Speaker 1: probably because he was powering over me like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the way that, um I actually saw our friend Red
Speaker 1: posted on Instagram. He said, I'll always remember meeting the
Speaker 1: real life Snake Pliskin, which is from what game? What
Speaker 1: game is that? It's Snake Pliskin is Escape from New York. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that's what And he does look like that, Yeah yeah
Speaker 1: he does. He's got yeah, the whole thing going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So rest in peace, Ron. I wanted to have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a dedication there. And I mean for
Speaker 1: a guy who served twenty five years. I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly how old he was, but that is a hell
Speaker 1: of a career and retiring as a master chief. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, with that, we're going to have mark you
Speaker 1: blank on one last thing. I know you wanted to
Speaker 1: get into, though. It's something you've written about and have
Speaker 1: been following. Finally, the US Justice Department has opened up
Speaker 1: a probe into the Jeffrey Epstein controversial plea deal. And
Speaker 1: there's been some articles about that. Yeah, well jeff Epstein
Speaker 1: got like the epitome of a sweetheart plea deal. Um.
Speaker 1: He was. He stood accused of sexually molesting or assaulting
Speaker 1: you know, upwards to a hundred girls. Um. And if
Speaker 1: you guys don't know what I'm talking about, you can
Speaker 1: go back and uh and look at some past stories.
Speaker 1: The I believe it's the Miami Herald did a few
Speaker 1: months back, like a huge, huge expose. I mean I
Speaker 1: had written about this subject before, so had others. Um.
Speaker 1: The Daily Beast had actually done a pretty good job
Speaker 1: at following this story, um and staying on top of it.
Speaker 1: The Miami Herald, I mean, they really dropped a bomb
Speaker 1: on this that really just blew up the entire subject.
Speaker 1: They did a really big investigative piece on it. And
Speaker 1: if you go digging into this whole thing, there there
Speaker 1: are so many threads to this deal with Jeffrey Epstein. Um.
Speaker 1: And I'll try to be very very brief with it.
Speaker 1: He uh was a school teacher in Brooklyn for a
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, and then he went to work for
Speaker 1: a hedge fund here in Manhattan, and very quickly, within
Speaker 1: a few years he decided to open up his own
Speaker 1: hedge fund that only caters to billionaires like this guy
Speaker 1: had this meteoric rise. And no one knows how he
Speaker 1: came upon his fortune, how he made these connections, how
Speaker 1: he went from a nobody to being a billionaire. It
Speaker 1: seems like almost overnight. Um. And what what he stands
Speaker 1: accused of. I mean it is essentially, you know, trafficking
Speaker 1: underage girls. Um. There's also a litany of different allegations
Speaker 1: him and Laine Maxwell, who is the daughter of uh
Speaker 1: this this um British newspaper magnet who. I mean it
Speaker 1: just like I said, there's so many threads. I mean.
Speaker 1: Epstein new Hillary Clinton, he knew Donald Trump. Um, you
Speaker 1: can find pictures of them together. I and he had
Speaker 1: a private island in the Caribbean that had been dubbed
Speaker 1: a Lolita Island where um Bill Clinton had been flown
Speaker 1: there on Jeff Epstein's private jet. I he hosted a
Speaker 1: prominent astrophysicist out there who recently passed away. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're all sorts of celebrities. There's British Royalty all wrapped
Speaker 1: up in this thing. It's like a mega conspiracy, except
Speaker 1: it's appears to be largely real. Although you know, just
Speaker 1: because you know, just to qlarify, just because Donald Trump
Speaker 1: was there or Bill Clinton was there, Trump Trump was
Speaker 1: not there, Trump was not not not the island. But
Speaker 1: either way, it doesn't mean that they were engaging in
Speaker 1: whatever this guy was. I don't want the Pizza Gate
Speaker 1: crowd to there's no there's no evidence that Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: it was involved in illegal behavior. Um, but I think
Speaker 1: we can say that. You know, if you're catching a
Speaker 1: ride out to a place called Lolita Island on Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein's private jet, Uh, it doesn't look good. It's a
Speaker 1: little suspicious. Um. It's just a hell of a crazy story.
Speaker 1: And Epstein is a convicted pedophile. Um. He got as
Speaker 1: the investigation did kick off. Um. The he had a
Speaker 1: plea bargain deal with the courts down there in Florida
Speaker 1: where his mansion is. He has another place here in
Speaker 1: Manhattan over by the Frick. UM. I believe he lives
Speaker 1: right across the street from Bill Cosby. Actually, yeah, like
Speaker 1: I said, it's it gets very very interesting. Um and
Speaker 1: and just like talking about it makes you sound like
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorist or Alex Jones or something like that.
Speaker 1: But this, this really happened. I mean, this, this is
Speaker 1: stuff that can be documented. And uh, the police bargain
Speaker 1: was that he I think he got to spend like
Speaker 1: two weeks in prison. He could come and go from
Speaker 1: prison as he wanted, um, and he just had to
Speaker 1: let go there and sleep there at night. And he
Speaker 1: didn't even have to register as a sex offender here
Speaker 1: in the state of New York. And then I remember
Speaker 1: reading an article about it, and the courts were the
Speaker 1: court the judge here in Manhattan was like, I have
Speaker 1: never in my life seen prosecutors argue that a sex
Speaker 1: offender should not be put on the sex offender registry
Speaker 1: like he was. You could even you could see he
Speaker 1: The judge was baffled, like what is going on here?
Speaker 1: And I don't know what's going on here, but I mean,
Speaker 1: if you, I don't think you have to be a
Speaker 1: genius to understand that Jeffrey Epstein accumulated an intense amount
Speaker 1: of wealth and power, and according to some of the
Speaker 1: young women, young girls that he exploited. He kept a
Speaker 1: little black book where he recorded um who was sleeping
Speaker 1: with underaged girls and what their fetishes were in all
Speaker 1: the details. The amount of leverage blackmail material that Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein most likely had over powerful individuals again ranging from
Speaker 1: high level politicians to UH monarchs, to business leaders and
Speaker 1: other billionaires, would have been extraordinary. And I have to
Speaker 1: wonder if now the news that the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: is investigating the plea deal, if that isn't being investigated,
Speaker 1: that there's some sort of criminal corruption behind the plea
Speaker 1: deal itself. And it goes if you look at the
Speaker 1: articles which I was skimming through, it goes into the
Speaker 1: actual New York politician they're investigating him. Well, there's a
Speaker 1: politician down in Miami. I believe he runs the Department
Speaker 1: of labor Um. I'd have to check on that, but
Speaker 1: he was intimately involved in the plea bargain that that
Speaker 1: was that went down in Florida, which means likely a
Speaker 1: blackmail and that guy who knows, who knows how far
Speaker 1: that spiderweb goes and who has leverage over who um,
Speaker 1: And it's just this is one of those cases like
Speaker 1: I suspect the real truth behind it will never come
Speaker 1: out because it would take down so many powerful people.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like remember that episode of The Wire
Speaker 1: where they talk about the how how the city is
Speaker 1: reluctant to put wires and start wire tapping, you know, say, like, um,
Speaker 1: like a prostitute's hotel room, because you never know who's
Speaker 1: gonna come walking through the door. It could be the
Speaker 1: fucking mayor, you know. So I think it's one of
Speaker 1: those cases where it's like, you start this a real
Speaker 1: investigation into Epstein and all of his activities and who
Speaker 1: came walking through that door over the years, and and
Speaker 1: and I guarantee you that, I mean, it's names were
Speaker 1: all very familiar with. Yeah, we'll seemore as as more
Speaker 1: comes out. It is out time that they launched this though.
Speaker 1: Um they launched this probe to see what exactly, And
Speaker 1: it's probably because of that UM that piece again, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the article, but I
Speaker 1: believe it was just on it. It was the Miami
Speaker 1: Herald that published that big investor. It was like a
Speaker 1: five part, six part investigative piece, um dot with a
Speaker 1: fire under the assets it's right here. Justice Department opens
Speaker 1: probe into Jeffrey Epstein plea deal. It's from the Miami Herald,
Speaker 1: Julie Brown. She was the one that did the original um,
Speaker 1: the original piece on or not the original piece, but
Speaker 1: the big long form investigative article about Yeah. And the
Speaker 1: investigation is into Secretary of Labor alex A Costa. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's being launched as a request by Senator Ben
Speaker 1: Sass of Nebraska. So we see what happens from here.
Speaker 1: I mean, just for instance, just a matter for instance,
Speaker 1: we went through the much the contentious election, everyone throwing
Speaker 1: dirt at everyone else, I mean Donald Trump allegedly or
Speaker 1: his his people's you know, Roger Stone and such, going
Speaker 1: to wiki leaks, trying to get the Russians to dig
Speaker 1: up dirt on the Democrats. I mean, dirty games were
Speaker 1: being played left and right. But we never heard during
Speaker 1: the twenties sixteen campaign. How come no one brought up
Speaker 1: the two candidates are both associated with Jeffrey Epstein. How
Speaker 1: we never heard that that was never mentioned. I mean
Speaker 1: it would probably dig up, i mean, or build to
Speaker 1: some crazy conspiracy stuff, as he said, because it's on
Speaker 1: the verge of that. Because then you know, there's the
Speaker 1: whole pizza Gate thing that all these politicians or pedophiles.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know if you know, Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: or anything was engaged in pedophilia, and if you start
Speaker 1: to make those accusations, and personally I doubt he was,
Speaker 1: because I mean, everything we know about Bill it seems
Speaker 1: that he likes grown women a lot, although Michael Winsky
Speaker 1: was you know, significantly younger, not not a child. But again,
Speaker 1: I mean that's speculative, but I mean, whatever the cases, um,
Speaker 1: but it's not a conspiracy theory. I you know, Bill
Speaker 1: and Hillary and Donald they all knew Epstein. They all
Speaker 1: traveled in the same circles, you know, and that was
Speaker 1: never that was never brought up during the campaign, and
Speaker 1: it's very rarely brought up to this day. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see if there's any um any more that comes
Speaker 1: out from this, and if there is, it's gonna be,
Speaker 1: as you said, pretty explosive because of who's connected with
Speaker 1: him and and our president as well. As I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: it'll it'll never all come out because it would probably collapse,
Speaker 1: like half of our government, you know, if like all
Speaker 1: the you know, unseemly details started to be revealed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well check out the article. It's a Justice Department opens
Speaker 1: probe into Jeffrey Epstein plea deal. You can also check
Speaker 1: out your old article right at the news rep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My mind was I wrote like what in or something
Speaker 1: like that, and it was. It had a pretty explosive title.
Speaker 1: It's like the power elites billionaire pedophile blackmail network, I
Speaker 1: think was the title of the article. But you're a
Speaker 1: nice um kind of web drawn right by? Didn't um
Speaker 1: Jason Knetser do a graphic with like a web of
Speaker 1: all the people? No? No, no, that was a different,
Speaker 1: different blackmail network that I wrote about. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I wrote that article a while back. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: connect some of these dots. I'm watching this video you
Speaker 1: still got playing here. You know, Epstein's also friends with
Speaker 1: who's that film director? Umky No, not Polanski, the other
Speaker 1: one who's accused of molesting the step daughter. Um he's
Speaker 1: famous Allen Palace with Woody Allen. Yeah, definitely, Uh, some
Speaker 1: weird stuff. Yeah, so there's there's video on here as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah you see this how they um Epstein had uh
Speaker 1: pictures of child pornography on the wall. So when you
Speaker 1: walked into his house. You committed a federal crime right
Speaker 1: off the bat by by viewing child pornography, So you're
Speaker 1: compromised from the very beginning the second you walk through
Speaker 1: the door. Like he had created a system like to
Speaker 1: game the law, like he knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1: Like the flight logs for the Loreita Express to the
Speaker 1: Pedophile Island. He had Bill Clinton and all these other
Speaker 1: names in the flight logs, and that's intentional, so he
Speaker 1: can push that information out as like a as like
Speaker 1: a fucking hip check and say, ay, like, don't push
Speaker 1: this issue because we have records. This stuff is gonna
Speaker 1: come out. But uh yeah, with that, well let's get
Speaker 1: over to uh something completely different. Markya Blanca really glad
Speaker 1: that Mark reached out because, as I mentioned earlier during
Speaker 1: the intro, Jim Morris is a mutual friend of the show,
Speaker 1: and Mark has written several books on Vietnam, the latest
Speaker 1: of which is Vietnam Bouchi Warriors of Word and Film.
Speaker 1: And the interest think thing about this book is, as
Speaker 1: you say early on in the book, there's plenty of
Speaker 1: books written about Vietnam from the journalists who are there,
Speaker 1: but this is about the men who served and reported
Speaker 1: on the ground what was happening in Vietnam and and
Speaker 1: also to give some background on on Mark for the audience.
Speaker 1: Mark also served as a chief warrant officer in the
Speaker 1: California State Military Reserve and also served as a public
Speaker 1: affairs officer. So great to have you on the show
Speaker 1: and excited to dig into this book and I think
Speaker 1: our audience is really gonna love it. Well, it's great
Speaker 1: to be with you. And uh, you mentioned Jim Morris,
Speaker 1: and I also know from looking at soft Radio you've
Speaker 1: also mentioned another room by the late Jerry Yellen. And
Speaker 1: so I'm honored to be a great company and thank
Speaker 1: you for having me on. Thank you so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jerry Yellen was great and I think and I think
Speaker 1: that may have been his last interview when Brandon interviewed him,
Speaker 1: because just a few short months after that he passed
Speaker 1: away unfortunately, but I mean at a older age, but
Speaker 1: truly a hero, you know, flying the final combat mission
Speaker 1: over Japan. Yes, and and uh and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not for or two generation, but my father was
Speaker 1: and uh and as was Jerry and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever met a greater, better storyteller
Speaker 1: and one you know who with Oh god, I mean
Speaker 1: it just chokes me up to think about some of
Speaker 1: the great stories. Uh. He told not only me, but
Speaker 1: two members of the Military Writer Society of America several
Speaker 1: years ago. That's so cool. Yeah, Mark, do you want
Speaker 1: to tell us a little bit about your book? And
Speaker 1: I think maybe a good place to start is that
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably don't know that the U. S.
Speaker 1: Military has its own combat correspondence or or combat journalists
Speaker 1: that go out. We have combat photographers. I mean, we
Speaker 1: had one that we took out on operations in Iraq
Speaker 1: and to thousand nine. Um. I was wondering if you
Speaker 1: could talk a little bit about that for you know,
Speaker 1: the wider audience that perhaps they're not even aware that
Speaker 1: this profession exists. With pleasure, Yeah, I I sort of
Speaker 1: fell into that knowledge myself, to be honest, I had,
Speaker 1: you know, through a rather securitist route gotten into journalism.
Speaker 1: I was writing travel pieces and sort of slid into
Speaker 1: military journalism and as such began to meet many of
Speaker 1: the civilian press corps that covered Vietnam, and through them,
Speaker 1: UM met uh in In in my case, two Marines
Speaker 1: who had been combat correspondence in Vietnam. When I had
Speaker 1: the pleasure of meeting UH in Washington, d C. At
Speaker 1: when the book Requiem for the Photographers who died in
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War and French Indo China War, there was
Speaker 1: a celebration for that book in Washington, and that generalman's
Speaker 1: name was Steve Stephen. Steve was the first Stars and
Speaker 1: Stripes reporter in Vietnam, going way back to nineteen and
Speaker 1: sixty two. UM. And he was you know he was
Speaker 1: and is a US Marine. Another is a good friend
Speaker 1: of mine by the name of Sergio ortisse Um. And
Speaker 1: people who have studied the Vietnam War UH and the
Speaker 1: coverage of it, know that there were four deans of
Speaker 1: the Civilian Press Corps, Larry Burrows from England, Henri Uit
Speaker 1: or u a I my French is correct, who was
Speaker 1: half Vietnamese, half French Japanese stringer for Newsweek. I believe
Speaker 1: it was case of Burrowshamamoto, and an American named Kent Potter.
Speaker 1: Kent was actually in the National Guard UH and wanted
Speaker 1: to cover Vietnam, but they wouldn't let him, and so
Speaker 1: he took a leave from the Guard and came over
Speaker 1: and was a stringer for U P I. All four
Speaker 1: of those guys were shot down in what was called
Speaker 1: app Operation Lampsun seven one nine in louds and Sergio,
Speaker 1: who's a great photographer and writer in his own right, uh,
Speaker 1: just by chance took the last photo of all four
Speaker 1: of those general live. Uh. Sergio and I are are
Speaker 1: good friends to this day. And it just went from there.
Speaker 1: Um My. The as far as writing about the military journalists,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, the book probably all told to
Speaker 1: maybe eight or nine years to complete, just one interview
Speaker 1: after another. Um and uh, you know, then I decided
Speaker 1: to put it in book form. But yeah, all five services, um,
Speaker 1: including the US Coastguard people, uh, labor under the misnomer
Speaker 1: that the Coast Guard only stays close to American shores
Speaker 1: at least I don't know about today, but at least
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. And that wasn't the case. I. In fact,
Speaker 1: I know of one Coast guardsman. He wasn't a military
Speaker 1: journalist who joined the Coast Guard to you know, fulfill
Speaker 1: this obligation to serve And the next thing, you know,
Speaker 1: he got orders for Vietnam. So all five of our
Speaker 1: services had combat photographers combrat cameraman, including not only still
Speaker 1: photographers but mo pick as they call it motion picture,
Speaker 1: as well as those who who wrote for the likes
Speaker 1: of Stars and Stripes, uh, and their various based newsletters
Speaker 1: and newspapers. Yeah, some of the more famous ones. I
Speaker 1: don't think there were combat correspondents, but I mean Hunter S.
Speaker 1: Thompson and Al Gore were both military reporters at various times. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I tried to get out Bore three times to
Speaker 1: be a part of the book, and I never heard
Speaker 1: me personally, but his uh, his underling in Nashville, where
Speaker 1: he's based, said Mr Gore is not interested. Leave me alone.
Speaker 1: He didn't say that, but he just he just repeatedly
Speaker 1: said that Mr Gore is not interested at this time.
Speaker 1: And so I gave up. Another one who you know,
Speaker 1: is well known, owned both in the civilian and military cycles,
Speaker 1: is our circles rather is Al Rockoff, who of course
Speaker 1: was immortalized in the film The Killing Fields about you know,
Speaker 1: the fall to communism into the Khmer Rouge and Cambodia
Speaker 1: in the late seventies. Al is not in my book.
Speaker 1: I believe I tried to get him at one point
Speaker 1: and didn't hear back but he's certainly mentioned by those
Speaker 1: who who went out on missions with him in my book,
Speaker 1: a couple of different guys, So he does have a
Speaker 1: presence there. How does a soldier or airman or marine
Speaker 1: walk onto this job and what are their responsibilities as
Speaker 1: opposed to say, a civilian journalist. Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: Most of the of the thirty three or thirty four, uh,
Speaker 1: you know guys that I interviewed UM went to din folks,
Speaker 1: the Defense Information School, which, while it's based at Fort Mead,
Speaker 1: Maryland now, was based at Fort Benjamin Harris in Indiana
Speaker 1: back in the day. Many of them came to you know,
Speaker 1: their mos is UM through previous experience working for newspapers UM.
Speaker 1: Others as you know, as little experiences working on their
Speaker 1: high school annuals UM, and uh you know, and hometown
Speaker 1: newspapers and others just you know, hill into it. As
Speaker 1: I talked about high school annuals, I'm reminded of one
Speaker 1: of the guys in the book, my my friend, uh
Speaker 1: Frank Lee, who who figures that he is probably the
Speaker 1: only Chinese American marine to have been a combat correspondent
Speaker 1: in Vietnam, and and then he delineates it, he said,
Speaker 1: if it's not that I'm probably the only Chinese American
Speaker 1: marine combat correspondent from Mississippi who who ended up snapping
Speaker 1: mopick Um. And uh tells a great story. And I'm
Speaker 1: I'm going off in a direction here, but but a
Speaker 1: funny story about how, at some point in his time
Speaker 1: in his life, always from Mississippi, his parents decided to
Speaker 1: pick up a move to l A. And as circumstances
Speaker 1: would have it, he ended up in what was then
Speaker 1: predominantly Jewish Fairfax High School in l A. And got himself,
Speaker 1: you know, on the yearbook committee, and they made it
Speaker 1: his job to go from class to class to sell
Speaker 1: the yearbook. So what does he do. He puts on
Speaker 1: a Jewish namica and he goes from class to class
Speaker 1: only the yearbook. And that year Fairfax High schooled more
Speaker 1: annuals than any year in Fairfax High School's history. So
Speaker 1: he says, so I imagine this, Uh, this profession takes
Speaker 1: a certain amount of entrepreneurial spirit. Then yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we're talking about about guy and
Speaker 1: I keep referring to guys because there were no uh,
Speaker 1: there were plenty of female uh you know, correspondence writers
Speaker 1: and photographers. Fewer female photographers, but there were some, one
Speaker 1: of whom is in my book because I had a
Speaker 1: special section reserved in the back for the civilian reporters,
Speaker 1: three or four of the well known ones. But these
Speaker 1: were these were guys who, you know, they didn't just
Speaker 1: go out in the field with a camera or a
Speaker 1: flora or a you know, a pad of paper and
Speaker 1: a pen. They were they were you know, humping uh
Speaker 1: in the boonies, as the Vietnam bests used to say,
Speaker 1: with full rut sacks and an M sixteen and a
Speaker 1: side arm of forty five. Um, you know, in addition
Speaker 1: to being loaded down, say with with camera equipment and
Speaker 1: and one of the things that you know, I came
Speaker 1: away with um understanding is that they were often in
Speaker 1: a position where, uh, you know, it was they had
Speaker 1: to make a decision do I shoot my M sixteen
Speaker 1: or do I shoot my camera? You know, do I
Speaker 1: snaff a photo? And yeah, one of the guys in
Speaker 1: the book, Marvin Wolf, another acquaintance of mine, talks about
Speaker 1: how when he's asked about Vietnam, he said, yeah, I
Speaker 1: I you know, I shot hundreds, usually at two fifty
Speaker 1: a s A and UH. Of course, Marv went on
Speaker 1: to write several books, among them uh A, a shared
Speaker 1: book with when kal Ki, the former premier of South Vietnam,
Speaker 1: called UH, my fight to save the Buddhist child, my
Speaker 1: fight to save the Vietnam. But yeah, it takes a lot.
Speaker 1: And another interesting phenomena that I found, chiefly from the
Speaker 1: photographers is how and I'm not sure if the photographer
Speaker 1: who went out with you in Iraq, you know, said
Speaker 1: the same, I'd be surprised because I've I know several
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan. It's I teach English and creative writing
Speaker 1: at Columbia College of Missouri. They have satellite campuses on
Speaker 1: military bases all over the country and down at Gitmo
Speaker 1: um and I teach at the one at the Joint
Speaker 1: Forces Training Base out here at Los Alamidas, California. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I've asked, you know, some of them UH, and had
Speaker 1: talked with some of the photographers and their units whether
Speaker 1: they felt the same. I e. A lot of the
Speaker 1: Vietnam guys actually felt protected behind the viewfinders, and the
Speaker 1: Iraq vets that I've talked to said no, not at all.
Speaker 1: The Vietnam guys several of them, you know, did did
Speaker 1: have that opinion that somehow that you know, they were
Speaker 1: separated from the action, you know, albeit with bullets flying overhead. Uh.
Speaker 1: They're an amazing bunch of people. And is there I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out the difference between say a
Speaker 1: civilian journalist and military journalists that are they there simply
Speaker 1: to record for the sake of history, um? Or are
Speaker 1: they expected to contextualize like many journalists do today? Right?
Speaker 1: And I apologize because I didn't know. I was trying
Speaker 1: to get around Okay, I didn't go there. Okay, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's a question to ponder because
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's just one answer to that.
Speaker 1: Based on the people I've talked to. In the general sense,
Speaker 1: I would say that while um, you know, the civilian media,
Speaker 1: the press, you know, whether they set out to or not,
Speaker 1: is the debate, you know, basically recorded the horrors of
Speaker 1: the war, um. The military media, the writers, the photographers
Speaker 1: and the mo pick guys you know, of course ended
Speaker 1: up doing the same. But I believe that the difference
Speaker 1: in their mission was to their missions were to to
Speaker 1: to base sically also show the good things and the
Speaker 1: great things and the brave things that our troops were doing. UM.
Speaker 1: I think if you if you line the coverage up,
Speaker 1: you know, military versus civilian, there's a lot more positive
Speaker 1: coverage that you'll find of the guys who were in
Speaker 1: uniform than there was for the civilian. And I know
Speaker 1: that there's an argumentum, among several Vietnam veterans that you know,
Speaker 1: hell it was it was the media that lost the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. Number one. I don't think we lost the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. I've been to Vietnam three times since the war,
Speaker 1: and the first time was fifteen years after. UH. And
Speaker 1: I saw the abject poverty that you know, Communism forced
Speaker 1: those people to live under. UM And UH, you know, UH.
Speaker 1: Number two, I'm not going to take that position. I know,
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I have several civilian press
Speaker 1: who are in Vietnam who I consider acquaintances and friends,
Speaker 1: and you know, I can't conceive that they deliberately set
Speaker 1: out to make us look like the bad guys. There
Speaker 1: was plenty of stuff that was going on that was
Speaker 1: bad north of the seventeenth Parallel that you know, was
Speaker 1: not covered by our civilian press, but in part because
Speaker 1: probably they haven't a meant their lives if they had
Speaker 1: gone the seventeenth parallel. So so I understand that, but
Speaker 1: that would be you know, my response, it's I think,
Speaker 1: just to interject very quickly, I think it's a common trope. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, whenever we we fight an unpopular war or
Speaker 1: a war what we're seeing to not win that in
Speaker 1: order to regain some national dignity, we want to blame
Speaker 1: somebody else as opposed to you know, um, you know,
Speaker 1: blaming the media or or blaming some other you know,
Speaker 1: other power. And it's very typical, I think when when
Speaker 1: these things happen and we try to say, no, it
Speaker 1: wasn't because of the decisions that general's made, It wasn't
Speaker 1: because of the decisions politicians made. No, it was the media.
Speaker 1: It was because some guy came and wrote about what
Speaker 1: he saw in Vietnam that as if that's really what
Speaker 1: lost us the war. I mean, that's just kind of silly.
Speaker 1: I exactly right. And I mentioned Marv Wolf before, and
Speaker 1: one of the things that in his chapter that he
Speaker 1: mentions is and he's a guy who was he was
Speaker 1: with the first air cab at a Kai in the
Speaker 1: Central Highlands. He was a p I O who tells
Speaker 1: some harrowing stories on his own and some funny ones too. Um.
Speaker 1: But one of the things that he says in his
Speaker 1: chapter is you can hardly blame the media for a
Speaker 1: failed military policy. So uh and I think that there's
Speaker 1: something to be said for that at the time, because
Speaker 1: as we all know, you know, especially in Vietnam and
Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, our hands were tied. You know,
Speaker 1: there were policies to understand, such as don't shoot until
Speaker 1: you're fired upon. Well, how in the heck are you
Speaker 1: going to you know, to to to win a war
Speaker 1: with that attitude? So anyway, you know, what were some
Speaker 1: of the more memorable stories that came out of you know,
Speaker 1: your research. Were there any that were particular surprise, particularly
Speaker 1: surprising to you, um, that came out during these interviews?
Speaker 1: You know, I've mentioned some of them. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say surprising, because I've studied and I've written
Speaker 1: about the journalists for so many years for different publications
Speaker 1: such as Stars and Stripes itself, Army Times. UH. I
Speaker 1: was a contributing writer to UH the Amvets publication called
Speaker 1: American Veteran for about fifteen years. And I often strove
Speaker 1: to you know, to write about journalists, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: such as going back to World War Two, Andy Rooney
Speaker 1: and Ernie Pyle. Um. Some of the more memorable ones,
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, we're Steve Stebvens, Frank Lee,
Speaker 1: Marve Wolf. Ken Hackman, who was an Air Force combat photographer, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, was one that that I guess who you know,
Speaker 1: ran the gamut of all kinds of missions, you know,
Speaker 1: both on the ground and in the air. And I've
Speaker 1: got a short passage from his chapter. Do you mind
Speaker 1: if I read it real quick, so we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, Ken Hackman, U s Air Force uh combat productor.
Speaker 1: He recalls one such mission, flying back seat and an
Speaker 1: F four out of the name. It was supposed to
Speaker 1: be a three ship me and one F four photographing
Speaker 1: the other two F fours. There was a problem with
Speaker 1: one of them, so only two of us took off.
Speaker 1: Was supposed to be an easy mission. Not much happening
Speaker 1: until we got airborne, and then the local F a
Speaker 1: C Forward Air Command operators told us we were being
Speaker 1: sent to support an F a C along the coast.
Speaker 1: We had bad weather, cloudy with the ceiling of only
Speaker 1: eight hundred feet. I was in the lead aircraft. At
Speaker 1: one point, the pilot of Hackman's plane told his wingman,
Speaker 1: we're going out over the ocean. There are no mountains
Speaker 1: to run into there, and then we can drive in
Speaker 1: and see the target. The f a C told the
Speaker 1: pilot that the target was at church at the apex
Speaker 1: of two rivers that was being used to store AMMO,
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to mark the target with the
Speaker 1: smoke rocket. My pilot said, you either market or we
Speaker 1: aren't going in. Hackman recalled they were carrying five hundred
Speaker 1: pound bombs, and the pilot of Hackman's jet started heading
Speaker 1: in and the altitude of blessed An eight hundred feet.
Speaker 1: The pilot told Hackman, I hate this. They can shoot
Speaker 1: us down with rifles. My silent reaction was I don't
Speaker 1: need to know that. Then there were no pictures to
Speaker 1: be made. Hackman said, I'm sitting there looking at the
Speaker 1: bomb on our wing and then it was gone. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean being put in a situation like that to me,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's Bravado plus you know, Bravado
Speaker 1: on stair rooids. Basically, yeah, I mean it goes into
Speaker 1: the whole mentality of some people think these guys are fearless,
Speaker 1: and it's more just you know, they have to block
Speaker 1: out that fear as as you're saying, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: curious just looking at your resume, looking at your website,
Speaker 1: which is war stories press dot com, and what you've
Speaker 1: done throughout your career. A huge part of your career
Speaker 1: has been devoted to writing about Vietnam. What keeps you
Speaker 1: writing about this subject? Is it just that there's always
Speaker 1: more to discover? Um? Well, you know, uh, in part,
Speaker 1: you know you mentally. We've been talking about our mutual
Speaker 1: friend Jim Morris, and Jim was fond of saying that
Speaker 1: that I write about, you know, people in places, uh,
Speaker 1: you know that have been largely unturned. I think it
Speaker 1: is his word. Um, and I'm going back. You know,
Speaker 1: Vietnam was the war of my generation, and uh, it
Speaker 1: was a war that I did fight. Um. I was
Speaker 1: one of those who was, you know, safely in university
Speaker 1: with what we call the two S deferment. And then
Speaker 1: the lottery came in in sixty nine and I had
Speaker 1: a high number, which, of course at the time I
Speaker 1: breathed a sigh of relief over but as a you know,
Speaker 1: as an older man now and even going back, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty years, I feel as though, uh number one, that
Speaker 1: I missed the event of our generation and number two
Speaker 1: because of that, you know, and I wanted to make
Speaker 1: up for it and still want to make up for
Speaker 1: it in some small way by writing about those uh
Speaker 1: guys and women, uh you know who who were in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: in in in whatever capacity they were in. So it's
Speaker 1: it's it's my mission, really. Uh, it's a it's one
Speaker 1: that's driven me for for many years. Um it uh
Speaker 1: in a sense you mentioned that I was a p
Speaker 1: A O with what it's called the California State Military
Speaker 1: Reserve California. They were, they are a support brigade to
Speaker 1: the California National Guard, and when I was in I
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to be shipped over to U. S.
Speaker 1: Army Reserve unit that was on post at the Joint
Speaker 1: Forces Training Base the sixty third Regional Readiness Command to
Speaker 1: write stories and in some instances, uh take uh photos
Speaker 1: of the people like yourself, the guys and the gals
Speaker 1: who were going over to oh I F and O
Speaker 1: E F and you know, with a little help from
Speaker 1: the men above coming home safely. Um, I think in
Speaker 1: some small way, I may you know, I attempted to
Speaker 1: make up for that and did it for eight years
Speaker 1: until I decided to get out and devote my time
Speaker 1: to to to writing books. Um. And it's a mission
Speaker 1: will continue by the current project I'm working on is
Speaker 1: U is a book about Armed Forces Radio Vietnam. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, of course when I say that, everybody thinks
Speaker 1: about Robin Williams and a Crown. Now we're going to
Speaker 1: be portrayed in the movie Good Morning Vietnam. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: uh you know uh uh, Adrian and Robin both passed
Speaker 1: away before I've been able to complete the book, so
Speaker 1: they'll be mentioned, of course. But that's my current mission. Again,
Speaker 1: it's Vietnam related. UM. I just want to do my
Speaker 1: part uh two, in some way make up for the
Speaker 1: service that I should have uh enlisted into back when
Speaker 1: I was a much younger guy. Well, speaking of that,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious because you talked to these uh,
Speaker 1: these gentlemen who served as young men in Vietnam and
Speaker 1: interviewed them, you know, forty years, forty some odd years
Speaker 1: after the fact, Um, how do they feel about the war?
Speaker 1: I mean, do they have reflections, um, you know, in
Speaker 1: retrospect about how they felt about it at the time
Speaker 1: versus how they feel about it now. I'm just curious,
Speaker 1: excuse me if there were any any sorts of conclusions
Speaker 1: or reflections, um that came across in these interviews. You know,
Speaker 1: they ran the gamut. I would say that most most
Speaker 1: of them now feel very positive about the service. They
Speaker 1: feel that they really made a contribution, um. And in
Speaker 1: bringing the war home boat to you know, whoever was
Speaker 1: privy to military publications and military you know, the ability
Speaker 1: to see photos and and and motion picture that they provided. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't you know, have any recollection of anybody feeling, um,
Speaker 1: you know, negative about the war. You know, a couple
Speaker 1: of them basically are very accepting of of you know,
Speaker 1: both positions. The war was should never have happened and uh,
Speaker 1: you know versus you know, I'm honored that I had
Speaker 1: the chance to serve my country, um And so UM,
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, percentage wise, if I could
Speaker 1: lay it out and give you a percentage, and thank god,
Speaker 1: I'm not a map major, um, that most of them
Speaker 1: feel feel, you know that it's a very important part
Speaker 1: of their lives. And they're glad that they served. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's some sense that, you know,
Speaker 1: not only what that what they did was worthwhile, but
Speaker 1: that the war was a you know, a noble mission. Uh,
Speaker 1: certainly for for them, you know, if not for the country.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that that that's a whole other side, a
Speaker 1: whole other perspective that doesn't really get told about the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. Um. In most cases. Uh, in most cases,
Speaker 1: what we hear is, you know, the war apology, UM,
Speaker 1: how Vietnam was the death of the American dream. There's
Speaker 1: that was that big documentary on Vietnam that has done
Speaker 1: documentary and some of my some of my friends who
Speaker 1: served in Vietnam were kind of they were kind of
Speaker 1: angry about it. Quite frankly, I gotta tell you, I
Speaker 1: didn't serve in Vietnam, but all of my friends, for
Speaker 1: the most part today are Vietnam veterans. I've been to Vietnam,
Speaker 1: you know, three times, loust Ones Cambodia once as a reporter.
Speaker 1: And I was angry too, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I you know, I lasted I think the first fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes of episode one, and it was like, oh, this again.
Speaker 1: You know, we've been through this and a lot of people,
Speaker 1: including some of the guys that I interviewed, interviewed, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, felt that Burns and Company left so much out,
Speaker 1: mainly you know, the South Vietnamese position. Okay, Now I
Speaker 1: have a you know, a full disclosure. I have a
Speaker 1: sort of a vested interest in in in that because
Speaker 1: number one, I married into the Vietnamese culture. UM. I
Speaker 1: speak a little bit of the language after studying it
Speaker 1: at U c l A two years. Uh, and and
Speaker 1: have you know, uh basically dove into the history of
Speaker 1: the country, going back not only to our war, but
Speaker 1: the French War and and even before. UM. And there's
Speaker 1: my understanding is that there's you know, one interview and
Speaker 1: it's very short and UM. The you know, that's just
Speaker 1: not there. We were talking earlier about about the civilian press,
Speaker 1: and you know my comment that there are people who
Speaker 1: who feel that the civilian press quote unquote lost the
Speaker 1: war for US in Vietnam. One of the and I
Speaker 1: have I have been vocal about this one of the
Speaker 1: failings I think of that the civilian press. UM. And
Speaker 1: I can sort of understand it because like a soldier
Speaker 1: coming home from war, I can see how a a
Speaker 1: a civilian photographer or or or writer would feel the same,
Speaker 1: you know, the burnout factor. I get that, But I'm often,
Speaker 1: you know, hearing myself questioning where were these guys who
Speaker 1: were so willing to do the great job that they
Speaker 1: did while the war was going on? When after Saigon
Speaker 1: fell and the communist you know, came in in tanks
Speaker 1: um in uh into Saigon on April thirty, nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: and thereafter, where were these guys to report on the
Speaker 1: atrocities that occurred to the people of South Vietnam, many
Speaker 1: of them former soldiers. Um. I have a brother in
Speaker 1: law who was a South Vietnamese Marine. He was, I
Speaker 1: believe a warrant officer himself, and he was subjected to
Speaker 1: six years in a Communist re education camp, kept escape,
Speaker 1: kept getting caught, and then got out as a boat
Speaker 1: person to Malaysia and then settled in Canada. Um. The
Speaker 1: only person of any renowned that I know of, who
Speaker 1: who who who basically registered her feelings about that was
Speaker 1: not a reporter of Vietnam, but it was the folk
Speaker 1: singer Joan Bayez, you know, one of the protesters of
Speaker 1: the Vietnam war, whose husband, whose husband at the time,
Speaker 1: David Harris, her ex husband, actually went to jail for
Speaker 1: turning in his, you know, his his draft card. Uh.
Speaker 1: For a time, she took out a full page ad
Speaker 1: in the New York Times decrying the atrocities that the
Speaker 1: North Vietnamese communists were basically inflaming the South Vietnamese people with.
Speaker 1: And to my knowledge, I don't I don't know of
Speaker 1: any uh you know, of the Bauchi, the press, the
Speaker 1: journalists who covered uh, you know, Vietnam for our side,
Speaker 1: so to speak of who spoke up about that. And
Speaker 1: it hurts. Yeah, now, it definitely does. And I think
Speaker 1: part of it at least is related to, you know,
Speaker 1: as Americans, we have an infatuation with ourselves as Americans.
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of like a narcissism. I was just saying,
Speaker 1: it's kind of we kind of have a narcissism in
Speaker 1: thinking that, you know, America is the center of the universe. Um,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times we don't report on or
Speaker 1: we don't focus on what it's going on elsewhere in
Speaker 1: the world that has nothing to do really with Americans,
Speaker 1: you know, Communist atrocities or other sorts of war atrocities
Speaker 1: that happen, and and if it doesn't involve America somehow, Um,
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes there's a an effort to make
Speaker 1: a round peg fitness square hole to try to make
Speaker 1: America responsible, or failing that, we just don't report it
Speaker 1: at all because it doesn't have an American connection. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's my take on it. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: certain degree of pump plus city, isn't there in regard?
Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to the whole image of
Speaker 1: excuse me, the uh, the ugly American traveler, you know,
Speaker 1: who comes to a country and just expects them wherever
Speaker 1: they are to speak English. And I as as someone
Speaker 1: who is has taught English for I don't know forty
Speaker 1: seven years now. Um, you know, I guess you could say.
Speaker 1: The sad fact is that it's true. So wow. So
Speaker 1: this is a it's an amazing book. I mean, are
Speaker 1: there any other stories or anything else that came out
Speaker 1: of this that you really think we should hit upon?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I absolutely there. There is a section
Speaker 1: in the back of the book and and and by
Speaker 1: the way, I'm uh, you know, I'd be remiss if
Speaker 1: I didn't say how happy I am that case made
Speaker 1: publishers based in the UK but also in Philadelphia. Um
Speaker 1: not only published the book, but is in this with
Speaker 1: me in a joint effort to get the book out,
Speaker 1: you know, in as many mediums as we can, such
Speaker 1: as this one. Great people whom I would encourage any
Speaker 1: of the military writers who might be listening to this
Speaker 1: too to approach about about your books. Um. I you know,
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I would say that
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I included a section in the back
Speaker 1: that deals with about three or four of the civilians. Um.
Speaker 1: One of whom is Eddie Adams. Eddie Adams was was
Speaker 1: most noted for taking the picture of General Lawan who
Speaker 1: uh you know with a lady Smith and Wesson Uh
Speaker 1: special shot a be a Kong in the head outside
Speaker 1: of a Buddhist temple a jolan and everybody. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: um and Eddie. You know a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know about Eddie. First of all, he was a marine
Speaker 1: in the Korean War. He was the first one that
Speaker 1: I heard personally at a lecture here in l A
Speaker 1: many years ago talk about he felt protected behind the viewfinder.
Speaker 1: Um and um uh you know what a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know about that photo? Is that Um, General Luan?
Speaker 1: Who who shot that viet Cong? Well, moments before that happened,
Speaker 1: that same viet Cong had shot at point blank range
Speaker 1: his lieutenant General Lewan's lieutenant lieutenant's wife and his children. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: number one, number two. Eddie felt remorse for having taken
Speaker 1: that photo number one because he he felt that it's
Speaker 1: sort of you know, pegged him for the rest of
Speaker 1: his life, and most importantly, he felt that he had
Speaker 1: ruined General Luan's life. The two of them were fast
Speaker 1: friends until I think Luan passed away first, and Eddie
Speaker 1: felt that he had relegated Luan to the life of
Speaker 1: owning a pizza parlor in Virginia. Luan, for his part,
Speaker 1: didn't feel the same, and they they had, you know,
Speaker 1: a great friendship going while they were both alive. UM,
Speaker 1: talk about storytellers. As we were talking about Jerry Ellen
Speaker 1: and Jim Morris, Um, Eddie told a great story. If
Speaker 1: I have a minature to divulge this about going down
Speaker 1: to Havana with a reporter I believe was for the
Speaker 1: New York Times to interview Fidel Castro and uh, you
Speaker 1: know whoever in Castro's regime kept them hold up in
Speaker 1: their hotel in Havana for two weeks and Castro never appeared.
Speaker 1: And Eddie was most famous for uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: dare not say it, but using the F word with
Speaker 1: the second person singular whenever he was angry and um.
Speaker 1: At one point, after two weeks, he went to the
Speaker 1: journalist and said, you know, I've had enough. I'm going
Speaker 1: back to New York. And the journalist you know, pleaded
Speaker 1: with him, come on, let's stay, and he said, f you,
Speaker 1: I'm going back to New York, which he did. A
Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, He's in his studio in New York.
Speaker 1: Comes a knock at the door and it's an emissary
Speaker 1: from the Cuban mission at the u N and the
Speaker 1: guy says, El Presidente would like to see you, Senor,
Speaker 1: and Eddie Adams said, f you. I was down there
Speaker 1: for two weeks and he never showed up. And he says, no, no, senor,
Speaker 1: president would like to see you, and so Eddie Adams
Speaker 1: grabs the reporter. They go back down. Their interview goes
Speaker 1: on in Havana and Eddie snapping away and Fidel gets
Speaker 1: up to leave, and Eddie says to Fidel. He says,
Speaker 1: he says, uh, you know, Presidente, you know I haven't
Speaker 1: taken any photos. And Castro says, well, Eddie, what have
Speaker 1: you been doing. Castro, who by the way, speaks fluent English,
Speaker 1: he just doesn't like he didn't like to do it,
Speaker 1: you know, in public um, And Eddie says, he says
Speaker 1: to him, well, he says, I'd like to get you
Speaker 1: in your element. What say you? And me go jogging
Speaker 1: down on the beach, and Fidel says to him, Eddie,
Speaker 1: Havanna has many beaches. I have a better idea. I'll
Speaker 1: take you to where I go duck hunting, but you'd
Speaker 1: better not tell the CIA where it is. So they go,
Speaker 1: they go off and go duck hunting. Adams comes back
Speaker 1: to his his New York digs, and he's looking through
Speaker 1: photos and he finds one that someone else took of
Speaker 1: him and Castro with a string of ducks at their feet.
Speaker 1: So he says, what the heck? He says, I'd like
Speaker 1: to get the autograph. I'd like to get Fiddel's autograph.
Speaker 1: But he had no you know, premincial, you know, no
Speaker 1: conception that he would ever get the photo back. So
Speaker 1: he sends the photo to to castro in in in Havada.
Speaker 1: About a month later, the photo comes back and it's
Speaker 1: signed to my friend Eddie, I shot all the ducks
Speaker 1: your friend Fidel. That's incredible. But what year was that,
Speaker 1: like sixty three, sixty four? Well, I don't know when
Speaker 1: he went down I saw Eddie Adams probably, I want
Speaker 1: to say, in the early nineteen nineties. It was at
Speaker 1: a talk that he gave at the the American Society
Speaker 1: of of of Photographers a s MP. That's not what
Speaker 1: it stands for, but I'll look it up and i'll
Speaker 1: tell you when we get off Mike here. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it was the talk that he gave it the Hollywood
Speaker 1: Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood that I was, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: invited to. And when he went down to to to
Speaker 1: you know, photograph Fidel was probably sometime just just before that,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't going back during the war at all.
Speaker 1: That's a crazy story. Yeah, and uh and then of
Speaker 1: course another would be another famous photographer, the Vietnamese photographer, uh,
Speaker 1: you know Nick Utt, who took the picture of Kim Fouk,
Speaker 1: the napalm girl. Um getting to to to to know
Speaker 1: Nick uh through through other friends. Um, and you know,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in a few years. He since
Speaker 1: retired from the Associated Press. But um, you know, Uh,
Speaker 1: just getting to know Nick and hear about how that
Speaker 1: picture came about, and incidentally meeting Kim Fukuh at a
Speaker 1: restaurant uh several years ago in in l A through Nick,
Speaker 1: who has been one of the you know, the highlights
Speaker 1: of my life. Unplus, she was very impressed with my Vietnamese,
Speaker 1: which I yeah with me to hear the woman who's
Speaker 1: the little girl in the photograph, I mean she she's
Speaker 1: in the United States now, isn't she. Uh? No, she's
Speaker 1: in Canada. What happened was she married a gentleman and
Speaker 1: uh in Havannah. And by the way, she speaks fluent
Speaker 1: Spanish from her years in Havana, where she she she
Speaker 1: became the poster child for for the the you know,
Speaker 1: of the Vietnam War. Yeah, and Uh she went to
Speaker 1: pharmacy school in Havana, met another gentleman down there, Uh,
Speaker 1: and they went to Russia for their honeymoon because they
Speaker 1: didn't have many options. And coming back, the plane stopped
Speaker 1: in Gander, Newfoundland, and they ran off the plane or
Speaker 1: you know and uh declared, you know, political asylum in
Speaker 1: in Uh in Canada. She um that that her husband,
Speaker 1: by the way, is a Christian pastor uh now and
Speaker 1: they live outside of Toronto. Uh and Um. It's an
Speaker 1: endearing story about how Nick and her reconnected. First in Havana.
Speaker 1: A good friend of mine by the name of Jim
Speaker 1: Cacabo was the Red Cross photographer and writer in Vietnam
Speaker 1: between sixty eight and seventy. UH covered the story for
Speaker 1: the l A Times went down there with him, Um
Speaker 1: with Nick, uh and he met with Kim and a
Speaker 1: couple of years later, Uh, she was actually in Mexico
Speaker 1: and somehow got word to Uncle Nick as she called him,
Speaker 1: uh that you know that she was okay and hoped
Speaker 1: to see him one day. Uh. And that has since
Speaker 1: happened several times. Uh. You know, in in recent years.
Speaker 1: I recall seeing her and uh maybe it was a
Speaker 1: CNN interview, UM talking about her thoughts about the photograph
Speaker 1: and there's you know, one part of her you know,
Speaker 1: in the past she supported it, thought it was a
Speaker 1: good thing, and now she looks back and I said,
Speaker 1: she actually has changed her mind several times about how
Speaker 1: she feels about it. Which I guess it's understandable. It's
Speaker 1: a very haunting photograph, you're right, And it almost didn't
Speaker 1: make the light of day because there was a question
Speaker 1: about frontal nudity. Um. But Horst Fosse, who was the
Speaker 1: Saigon photo of bureau chief for the Associated Press, put
Speaker 1: his foot down. Uh. He got some backlash I think
Speaker 1: from New York on it, and he put his foot
Speaker 1: down and they sent the photo to the Tokyo Bureau,
Speaker 1: which which ran it. Um and uh, you know the
Speaker 1: rest of his history. Fass himself, who has since passed away,
Speaker 1: was one of those civilian photographer extraordinaires. Nick actually started
Speaker 1: with the a P as a young man. I think
Speaker 1: he was sixteen years old. His brother had been an
Speaker 1: AP photographer. He was also a well known actor in
Speaker 1: in Vietnam who was killed. Uh. And to help support
Speaker 1: the family, the AP gave Nick a job in the
Speaker 1: dark room. Um. But he got stifled there after a while,
Speaker 1: and uh he kind of you know, pleaded his case
Speaker 1: with some of his fellow AP writers, and I think
Speaker 1: one of them who went to back for him was
Speaker 1: Peter Arnett, who uh, you know everyone knows from his
Speaker 1: years at CNN. But Peter was in Vietnam for the
Speaker 1: Associated Press, and uh, you know, he's Nick out into
Speaker 1: the street and onto the battlefields where he was able
Speaker 1: to take some compelling shots. One of the interesting stories
Speaker 1: about Nick is when he got to l A. Aps
Speaker 1: first assignment for him was to cover an l A
Speaker 1: Dodger game. He'd never seen a baseball game in his life,
Speaker 1: and yet he was able to take some of the
Speaker 1: most compelling photos of the game. You know, uh in
Speaker 1: uh in the APIs H library. That's so cool. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the book is out right now. It's once again Vietnam bouch.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the meaning about you,
Speaker 1: but but you mentioned that earlier of that that that
Speaker 1: is what these men did, that's what they were called
Speaker 1: ums journalists, right, huh. Yeah, Well it's out now. It's
Speaker 1: a beautiful hardcover. You can get it on Amazon anywhere else.
Speaker 1: I saw the photo of you at Barnes and Noble. Uh.
Speaker 1: With it in good company with some other eight books.
Speaker 1: And you can check out all your other books as
Speaker 1: well for the audience, which is at War Stories Press
Speaker 1: dot com and see all of Mark's other work. It's
Speaker 1: been great having you on and I'm glad we were
Speaker 1: able to do this, and it's been it's been an
Speaker 1: honor to be with you. As I said, I feel
Speaker 1: like I've been I'm in great company and I would
Speaker 1: be remiss if I didn't say to you, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: thank you for your service. Well, yeah, you can thank Jack. Jack.
Speaker 1: You could thank Jack for a service because I you
Speaker 1: have more service than than myself. I've I've done nothing. Jack,
Speaker 1: thank you for your service and welcome home and thank you.
Speaker 1: Was a Green Beret, much like Jim Morris. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: do apologize. No, No, it's not a problem. I just
Speaker 1: worry that the audience is gonna say that I'm a
Speaker 1: stolen valor guy if I get thank my star. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, you know, Jim Morris is a terrific guy.
Speaker 1: We've had him on the on the podcast a bunch
Speaker 1: of times, and we always run out of time because
Speaker 1: there's about a million things I want to talk to
Speaker 1: talk to him about. Um. But now this book is great.
Speaker 1: I've been looking through it myself. We I have it
Speaker 1: right here in front of me. Vietnam Bauchi. Um. I
Speaker 1: really think people should go and pick this up and
Speaker 1: take a look at it because as uh you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: I mean this is kind of one of those untold
Speaker 1: stories of the Vietnam War, and uh, those are my
Speaker 1: favorite stories to write about myself and to feature on
Speaker 1: this podcast. Yeah. And if I could just add, the
Speaker 1: cool thing about the book too, is every chapter is
Speaker 1: you know, a different guy with a different story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, it's a to my knowledge,
Speaker 1: it's it's the first of its kind. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: as as you said earlier, a lot of stuff out
Speaker 1: there either about the civilian press or by the civilian press.
Speaker 1: Um and uh you know, but but this is the
Speaker 1: first of its of its kind that that covers uh
Speaker 1: you know, uh the military who who did the job
Speaker 1: and uh you know in so doing, by the ah,
Speaker 1: it's not across the board, but many of these military
Speaker 1: guys felt the camaraderie with their civilian counterparts and often
Speaker 1: you know, uh shared tense with them and see rats
Speaker 1: and and uh you know, got the civilian guys photos
Speaker 1: and stories run um and uh. Though not all of
Speaker 1: them felt that way, most of them, in my experience
Speaker 1: did um. Uh. They felt that they were driving down
Speaker 1: that same road and they certainly faced the same dangers.
Speaker 1: Uh that uh you know, the military guys did. Military
Speaker 1: guys had two jobs. They had their m sixteens and
Speaker 1: they had their cameras and their pens and pads of
Speaker 1: paper and uh so you know, it's a miracle that
Speaker 1: many of them, you know, we're able to come home.
Speaker 1: But I'm glad they did. And uh, it's again, it's
Speaker 1: been an honor to be with you, guys, and I
Speaker 1: apologize to you and Jack again, welcome home and thanks
Speaker 1: for your service. Thank you, Mark, appreciate it. Thanks Mark.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the being here as an honor, and
Speaker 1: anytime you want to do this again, I'm happy to
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, guys, for sure, we'll talk to you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely great episode there with Mark. Uh. I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to get accused of stolen valor. Every now and
Speaker 1: again there's there's new listeners to who assume that I
Speaker 1: have served. It's happened a few times because I keep
Speaker 1: dropping dime on you on you know, secret Facebook forums
Speaker 1: for stolen ball, like can you believe this? Douchebaggy and
Speaker 1: Scott Oh, I'll still always remember. I mean, by the way,
Speaker 1: leave reviews please on Apple podcasts. You know they're overwhelmingly positive,
Speaker 1: but my favorite negative review about me. It was always
Speaker 1: the guy who said, uh, you know, the producer of
Speaker 1: the show never served, but he acts like he was
Speaker 1: in a Tier one unit. Like how I don't think
Speaker 1: i've ever heard, you know, but that was. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: always remember that review. Whoever left that, that's awesome? I
Speaker 1: have a few. It just made me laugh. A few
Speaker 1: of my favorite descriptors. Uh. One guy described me as
Speaker 1: a bearded cash That was my I think that's my favorite.
Speaker 1: And there's another. There's a woman who reviewed my one
Speaker 1: of my novels, and she said, who do you think
Speaker 1: you are? Jack alone Wolf Howling at the Moon? I
Speaker 1: think I remember seeing that that was Was that for
Speaker 1: a gray Matter splatter? No, I think it's for direct
Speaker 1: action because I think I remember a review two on
Speaker 1: gray Matter Splatter where it said it was just that
Speaker 1: that they mentioned the title. They were like, gray Matter Splatter,
Speaker 1: Jack really grow up? Yeah, that was it was the
Speaker 1: same review. Yeah, she was mad. She was mad at
Speaker 1: me because I ruined her. You know, you know, she
Speaker 1: had a very I guess positive view of the military,
Speaker 1: and you know, the novel speaks about some of the
Speaker 1: negative things. She didn't really like that. So, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think some people assume that if if you know, you're
Speaker 1: a veteran journalist doing what you do or a fiction writer,
Speaker 1: that you're going to paint this picture of the military
Speaker 1: with the flag waving and yeah, you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: one part of the military, but that's definitely not everything.
Speaker 1: I've talked about this with a friend of mine and
Speaker 1: he he actually pointed out to me um during an
Speaker 1: interview that maybe he'll publish down the line. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we get treated differently than most journalists because
Speaker 1: we did actually serve uh, and people have certain expectations
Speaker 1: of you that you're supposed to be, you know, leading
Speaker 1: the band, so to speak, and they get pretty piste off,
Speaker 1: while if you're not. You know, I've explained that to
Speaker 1: people too. I mean, you guys who are listeners for
Speaker 1: a long time know about controversies with the site, with
Speaker 1: stuff that we've published. But I've always said, whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, a sexual us sexual harassment type of thing
Speaker 1: going onto the v A that you've written about, or
Speaker 1: if it's a great story, you know, and it's news worthy,
Speaker 1: you're going to write about it. Yeah. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I'm I am not a public affairs officer, and I
Speaker 1: know that I'm I'm aware of the fact that I'm
Speaker 1: no longer in the military. Uh So it's not my
Speaker 1: job to be a spokesman for the U. S. Military.
Speaker 1: That's just the reality of it. And if that's who
Speaker 1: you think you are, if that's what you want to be,
Speaker 1: then go be a public affairs officer, that's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know what sucks is, I think some of
Speaker 1: the loudest voices on social media are the guys who
Speaker 1: will criticize things that you've published. But there's plenty of
Speaker 1: people on the other side were like, thank you for
Speaker 1: publishing this, thank you for putting this out there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I heard just the other day from somebody
Speaker 1: inside a let's just say a special operations command, and
Speaker 1: he was like, everyone in this office reads your website,
Speaker 1: especially when like when a big story gets dropped and
Speaker 1: you know, you see everyone in the office like reading
Speaker 1: this story, just like nodding their heads like yep, that's
Speaker 1: pretty much how it went down. And even you know,
Speaker 1: you've had gold star parents reach out to you whose
Speaker 1: children were affected by things that we've published and said
Speaker 1: thank you for publishing. Now, all kinds of I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many different stories I've heard from the children
Speaker 1: of Special Forces soldiers who contacted me because I wrote
Speaker 1: about their dad and or about their mom. In one case,
Speaker 1: I wrote about a woman who who served on a
Speaker 1: No d A on Blue Light in the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: and her son found that article because he knew basically
Speaker 1: nothing about what his mom did in the military, and
Speaker 1: he found that article and he and he printed it
Speaker 1: out and he gave it to his mom on Mother's Day,
Speaker 1: and like it meant so much to them. Didn't you say,
Speaker 1: we're hoping to get her own. I would like, yes,
Speaker 1: she's she's doing good. I would love to have her on,
Speaker 1: and I keep twisting her arm a little bit, then
Speaker 1: come on, come on, please she I mean, I think
Speaker 1: she really is legitimately the only woman to ever serve
Speaker 1: on an O d A on a special Forces team,
Speaker 1: and she uh was brought on in a and presumably
Speaker 1: well not presumably, but the intention behind it was that
Speaker 1: she could help gather intelligence because as a woman, she
Speaker 1: could go places and do things that a guy can't.
Speaker 1: We gotta get her. But she also shot guns and
Speaker 1: rock marched and parachuted out of airplanes and she did
Speaker 1: all the things. And this is in uh you know,
Speaker 1: uh Special Forces in nineteen seventy nine, seventy eight or
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, seventy seven seventy eight. Uh, you know, male
Speaker 1: dominated organization. But I'll tell you all the guys I
Speaker 1: talked to about her were like she was great, Like well,
Speaker 1: like we were a little They definitely had their trepidations
Speaker 1: about it, um when they found out there was going
Speaker 1: to be a woman on the team. But they're like,
Speaker 1: now she she was value added to the team. Um,
Speaker 1: and they all spoke very highly of her. Well, where
Speaker 1: could people see that article again? I mean, the shirt's
Speaker 1: still a news or what's the title? It's about blue
Speaker 1: Light and it's like, uh, probably like a twelve part
Speaker 1: series that I did about blue Light. Um, so do
Speaker 1: you remember the TALC because let me see if I
Speaker 1: just google type in like news rep plus blue light
Speaker 1: and it'll come up. Um, there was so this part
Speaker 1: one blue Light Part one from the Special Forces America's
Speaker 1: first counter cars imunit. That's okay, And actually you could
Speaker 1: go on my my personal website, Jack Murphy Rights dot
Speaker 1: com and I put the PDF of the whole article
Speaker 1: on there perfect that you can download it and just
Speaker 1: read it in one shot. That's right, because if I
Speaker 1: remember on no no this, I was gonna say that
Speaker 1: you wrote the Slayer in North group while you were
Speaker 1: in South Korea, but no, no, no, that I wrote
Speaker 1: another article about UM Special Forces Detachment career. Remember, and
Speaker 1: that's like I know that that's another big one. I
Speaker 1: got twenty two part series that that was published, you know, serialized,
Speaker 1: that's from websites UM and you know, and then there's
Speaker 1: another one, uh multipart series about Detachment A in Berlin.
Speaker 1: That was another big one SF history one I worked on.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, those are the I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: those articles, and those are the positive things. Those are
Speaker 1: the cool things, good things that our military does. That
Speaker 1: I'm very happy, um that I was able to write
Speaker 1: that stuff. That's great. Well, uh, speaking of you know,
Speaker 1: interesting guests that we've had on I just put it
Speaker 1: up last night as we're recording. But from what I've
Speaker 1: seen so far, some really great feedback of that Fred
Speaker 1: Galvin episode. UM. One of the editors at the site,
Speaker 1: even you know Nick Cough and it was praised a
Speaker 1: lot throughout the interview was like I'm a be biased,
Speaker 1: which you probably are. He was like, that's my favorite interview.
Speaker 1: You guys have done well. I'll see as more people
Speaker 1: comment on it. But I thought it was good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a great interview I think. I mean, I'm biased,
Speaker 1: so I was just very happy with the conversation. But
Speaker 1: I thought Fred was extremely candid, especially his criticism of
Speaker 1: our foreign policy in the military. Is a guy who
Speaker 1: wants to continue his service, um, you know, extremely critical
Speaker 1: of what goes on. Yeah, I think Fred is, uh,
Speaker 1: he must be a marine through and through, because most
Speaker 1: guys who go through that, um, that whole um process
Speaker 1: of um being doubted and being called all these things
Speaker 1: that he was called and and essentially being persecuted. Um,
Speaker 1: most of those people just leave the military and disappear
Speaker 1: and you ever hear from because they're they're just so disgusted.
Speaker 1: The only person I could think of that's you know,
Speaker 1: similar situation. What even worse was you know, Michael Behannah,
Speaker 1: who served time because of it. And yeah, he seems
Speaker 1: like a guy who's completely off the radar, and and
Speaker 1: he was open that he regretted, you know, joining. But
Speaker 1: but Fred is somebody who you know, wants to come
Speaker 1: back in. He wants back in and we need those
Speaker 1: type of people. I think we do. I mean the
Speaker 1: importance of having people with integrity and keeping them in
Speaker 1: the ranks. I mean it can't be um underestimated. And
Speaker 1: you know, what Fred was saying kind of hit home
Speaker 1: with me because he's like, you know, the system wants
Speaker 1: the good people to get out, they want the people
Speaker 1: who are malleable to stay in. And that kind of
Speaker 1: hit me, like right fucking in the heart, because I, like,
Speaker 1: I got out and a lot of other people got
Speaker 1: out because we were disgusted with the things we saw.
Speaker 1: And you know, you could make the argument if we stayed,
Speaker 1: maybe we would we could have some kind of role
Speaker 1: in and slowly changing things. But that's one of those
Speaker 1: questions you get into. It's like a chicken in the
Speaker 1: egg conversation, like if you stay, are you perpetuating and
Speaker 1: participating in a corrupt system or maybe you're making it
Speaker 1: worse because you're helping the prop it up. And I
Speaker 1: don't claim to have the answer to that question. I
Speaker 1: also just think you can't live with regrets like that
Speaker 1: in life. I personally try not to. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a it's also like one of those things like you
Speaker 1: cannot be an unmotivated Special Operation soldier, which is what
Speaker 1: I was becoming because of the things I saw, Like
Speaker 1: you have to be a highly motivated Green Beret or
Speaker 1: ranger or whoever you are. And I was one of
Speaker 1: those people. Like getting to the point where I was,
Speaker 1: I was gonna become that crusty old uh sergeant first
Speaker 1: class that's grumpy walking around with my cup of coffee
Speaker 1: in one hand and a cigarette, just bitching and moaning
Speaker 1: about everything all day. And like that's not good for
Speaker 1: me as a person, and that wouldn't be good for
Speaker 1: the unit either, you know, I would be I'd be counterproductive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at the team room parties, people have asked
Speaker 1: me who didn't serve? Or people have said to me
Speaker 1: as well, who didn't serve? That I've met at team
Speaker 1: room parties for you know, when we were doing those
Speaker 1: in Vegas, they're like, oh, you know every day or right,
Speaker 1: not joined the military and and that's why they love
Speaker 1: our site and one of the podcast I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't really share those feelings. I I just don't
Speaker 1: think you can live every day with regret I did
Speaker 1: something different. I don't know what would have happened. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I would have died like a lot of
Speaker 1: people would have. You know what, why regret the life
Speaker 1: that I'm living now? And uh yeah, you know I
Speaker 1: do think those people. If if you do feel that
Speaker 1: way and you feel like you didn't get to do UM,
Speaker 1: you know what you should have done at that point
Speaker 1: for your country. You can always volunteer. There's plenty of
Speaker 1: there's plenty of use for all of us. Also, you know,
Speaker 1: be careful what you wish for. I mean, you could
Speaker 1: be one of those guys that, like you said, get
Speaker 1: killed or you know, you you get limbs blown off
Speaker 1: and you come back with PTSD and t b I
Speaker 1: and you know, guys suffering with you know, joblessness and
Speaker 1: homelessness and and there's plenty of guys who need help
Speaker 1: from people who took another path and and could help
Speaker 1: these guys. Whether you want to volunteer to be a
Speaker 1: hospital or UM, you know, an anything else. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of nonprofits out there that we've highlighted on
Speaker 1: this show that that could use those type of people. UM. Anyway,
Speaker 1: wrapping things up here, be sure to check out Create Club.
Speaker 1: We have different tiers of membership depending on how prepared
Speaker 1: you want to be and gift options are available as well.
Speaker 1: All those guys that hear from the load out room
Speaker 1: and the people at the site who are a part
Speaker 1: of Create Club are working on putting together great year
Speaker 1: custom products made for you, everything from sunglass cases to etc.
Speaker 1: Bags and other manly products. It's the club four Men
Speaker 1: by men. You can check that all out of Create
Speaker 1: Club dot us once again, that's Create Club dot Us.
Speaker 1: Join and be a part of the community. Also, as
Speaker 1: a reminder for all those who are listening, now is
Speaker 1: the time to sign up for the spec Ops Channel.
Speaker 1: That's our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries
Speaker 1: and interviews covering the most exciting military content today. The
Speaker 1: spec ops channel premier show Training Cell follows four meer
Speaker 1: Special Operations Forces as they participate in the most advanced
Speaker 1: training in the country, everything from shooting school's, defensive driving,
Speaker 1: jungle and winter warfare, climbing and much more. Again, you
Speaker 1: can watch this content by subscribing to the spec Ops
Speaker 1: Channel that's at spec ops channel dot com and take
Speaker 1: advantage of a membership for only four ninety nine a month.
Speaker 1: Only four ninety nine a month. That's spec Ops Channel
Speaker 1: dot com sign up today. Last thing I'm gonna mention
Speaker 1: you and I were on a call yesterday with Nick
Speaker 1: Kaufman and we're really heavily pushing this out and hope
Speaker 1: that you guys join. And that's the news Rup Financial Report.
Speaker 1: This has exclusive information that you can act on today
Speaker 1: to secure a brighter future for tomorrow. The news Our
Speaker 1: Financial Report can help you discover new investment strategies the
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Speaker 1: go to the fin Rep tabits at the top of
Speaker 1: the news rep dot com and sign up today. It's
Speaker 1: finn Rep at the top of the news rep dot com.
Speaker 1: Check it out and uh, I guess that's it, wrapping
Speaker 1: things up. Check up boutch One other thing to mention.
Speaker 1: So this stupid news feed crap that shows up on
Speaker 1: my cell phone. Uh, Fox News story on Jeffrey Epstein,
Speaker 1: and look at the way they frame it. Department of
Speaker 1: Justice to investigate po bargain award to Clinton linked sex
Speaker 1: offense or Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, of course. Now, I mean
Speaker 1: you could write that same headline and say Trump ye,
Speaker 1: which I've seen some people on Twitter saying, you know
Speaker 1: your friend Jeffrey Epstein, and those are the games that
Speaker 1: are getting played. It's just and I think that's why,
Speaker 1: as we were saying earlier, why this didn't get mentioned
Speaker 1: during the election, Yeah, because yeah, they couldn't use it
Speaker 1: on each other. Yeah. Well we'll see what happens, man. Um,
Speaker 1: more and more articles. And I'm sure that if you
Speaker 1: turn on Fox News, which I don't, I don't turn
Speaker 1: on any of the news channels. If you think that's
Speaker 1: a shot it, don't do him, don't. They're probably you know,
Speaker 1: scroll split screen debates talking about Hillary Clinton's ties this. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, once again, pick up the Vietnam. Bout she
Speaker 1: by Mark you Blanca some great stuff coming up in
Speaker 1: the next week. We're gonna have b K on to
Speaker 1: talk about getting banned on Twitter. Did you see, by
Speaker 1: the way, did you see that thing he was posting
Speaker 1: with one of these woke vets on Twitter. He's going
Speaker 1: back and forth. I don't know who this guy is,
Speaker 1: so I don't want to criticize because I know nothing
Speaker 1: about him. But you know, I bet I do. B
Speaker 1: K just loves, you know, poking at people. This guy
Speaker 1: one sandwich away from fat on Twitter. No, I don't
Speaker 1: know who that one, but I just I was laughing
Speaker 1: so during I think it was during the State of
Speaker 1: the Union, he wrote, if you think diversity in the
Speaker 1: military is bad, then you don't understand who we are
Speaker 1: or what we do. If you're in the military and
Speaker 1: think diversity in the military is bad, then you need
Speaker 1: to take your bigoted ask somewhere else. We don't need you. So,
Speaker 1: of course b K responded, Dude, you're a desk jockey.
Speaker 1: Anyone could do your job. The men's jobs require men.
Speaker 1: You just love just fucking with people, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's probably stuff like that that got in bennd Um
Speaker 1: there's a I don't understand this whole movement that like
Speaker 1: the military is like a platform for diversity. It's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think there's like equal opportunity and
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. Yeah, but like why is the
Speaker 1: military like being held up like it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: this platform for progressive values or something like what the
Speaker 1: funk is going? I think it's just because that's everything today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's just like what's hip and trendy and cool,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, But I mean if you work for
Speaker 1: a major company, you know it is it's diverse, and
Speaker 1: and it's also because it has to be legally, you know,
Speaker 1: with with UM the way that we do things now,
Speaker 1: you have to have certain jobs allocated for females and
Speaker 1: or you're you know, I know of companies where you
Speaker 1: have a lawsuit on your hands if you're not giving
Speaker 1: enough jobs to females, giving enough high up positions to
Speaker 1: females or to minorities. Just the way it is, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the military should definitely UM do more to
Speaker 1: reach out to minorities, like that that article you sent
Speaker 1: me yesterday about the Natan Seal, African American UM former
Speaker 1: seal and from I believe in Nigeria. Yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: he was talking about that. He's like, we need to
Speaker 1: do a better job like reaching out to minority communities
Speaker 1: and saying like, hey, there are these opportunities for you
Speaker 1: and the Special operations world. Um. And that's good for
Speaker 1: those those young men or potentially young women. And and
Speaker 1: that's also good for the military because um, from a
Speaker 1: Special Operations perspective, a black guy can go places to
Speaker 1: do things that obviously I can't do. Um. A woman
Speaker 1: can go places and do things I can't do. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, the typical image that that people have of
Speaker 1: a of a special operator is a you know, a
Speaker 1: six ft three white guy who deadlifts six hundred pounds. Um.
Speaker 1: But that five ft to Mexican kid can blend in
Speaker 1: and dozens of cultures that I can't blend in in.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm I'm not like anti diversity or
Speaker 1: anti inclusivity or whatever buzzword it is we're using today. Uh.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand why the military is seen by
Speaker 1: some people as solely a platform to advance a quote
Speaker 1: unquote progressive values, Like what world are you living in? People?
Speaker 1: People are coming to see on the left or coming
Speaker 1: to see the CIA in the same light. Um that
Speaker 1: they think that CIA is like a vehicle to advance
Speaker 1: a progressive agenda. Is like, have you ever read anything
Speaker 1: about the CIA and what their mandate is. It's strategic intelligence.
Speaker 1: It's not whatever weird ship you think it is. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess it's the zeitgeist of our times,
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, hopefully we have that guy on. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's done some acting. I'll reach out to him.
Speaker 1: He was in one of the transform Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't have to have I'd love to have
Speaker 1: him on. He seems like he has a great story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what he's saying is true. I mean the guys
Speaker 1: that we've had on the show that are minorities. Honestly,
Speaker 1: you look at photos of them and it's like them
Speaker 1: surrounded by a bunch of Like it's true. I look
Speaker 1: at Curtis Albert's or Jake's wig or Nick Irving. Uh,
Speaker 1: they they're usually like the lone black dude in there
Speaker 1: in range of battalion. There are not very many black guys.
Speaker 1: That's just a fact. Or in the seal teams. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a hand but The caveat to that, though,
Speaker 1: is in Injury Battalion. At least when I was there,
Speaker 1: we had a ton of Hispanic. Remember you're telling me
Speaker 1: a lot, like half of my platoon was was Hispanic. Um. So,
Speaker 1: I mean there are quite a few minorities. Um. But
Speaker 1: then you get into the whole question of like why
Speaker 1: aren't there more black Rangers? And our unit was always
Speaker 1: coming under various investigations over that, like congressional investigors did
Speaker 1: did guys try? I mean, that's that's the thing is
Speaker 1: that in the ranger indoctrination program today it's called rasp
Speaker 1: um alwayst. When I was speaking from my own experience
Speaker 1: when I went there, weren't that many black guys who
Speaker 1: showed up. Selection not the military's problem. While some people
Speaker 1: would say it is right and some people all kinds
Speaker 1: of weird arguments get advanced. Um. But uh, there's always
Speaker 1: that herihtage thing. I should say, because I've seen that
Speaker 1: with the fire department too. If your father was a firefighter,
Speaker 1: if your grandfather, and you know that's why there's a
Speaker 1: lot of white dudes. If you're someone like um frewman
Speaker 1: Terius whose father was a seal, you know it's carrying
Speaker 1: other legacy. His entire family were seals basically. Um. But
Speaker 1: there there have been some studies done, and I believe
Speaker 1: I don't have any of these studies in front of
Speaker 1: me right now, but as I recall, one of the
Speaker 1: things that they concluded was that, um, the African American community, Uh,
Speaker 1: typically when they joined the military, they're joining the military
Speaker 1: for jobs training, whereas a white guy is more likely
Speaker 1: to join the military because they're like, rah rah Rob
Speaker 1: patriotis so let's go fight. Uh. You know, like like
Speaker 1: people who come out of minority communities have a more
Speaker 1: pragmatic approach to it, and they're like, we're this is
Speaker 1: like a stepping stone, this is my this is my
Speaker 1: way out of a lifestyle and and to you know,
Speaker 1: do something with myself and do something positive with my life. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think that's part of the reason why you
Speaker 1: don't see, or have not seen in the past so
Speaker 1: many black people going to units like Ranger Battalion, Um,
Speaker 1: because being a ranger doesn't really set you up for
Speaker 1: success necessarily in the private sector. Well. Uh, like I said,
Speaker 1: we have b K, so we'll get into exactly what
Speaker 1: if he even knows we've got a band because he
Speaker 1: does this type of thing all the time. He likes
Speaker 1: to start fights on Twitter. Uh. And then we're also
Speaker 1: airing our interview with Max Partini. Uh yeah, that was
Speaker 1: out really good one. Um I'm looking forward to, uh
Speaker 1: well the one we all we already recorded the interview
Speaker 1: with Max Martini, which was really good. And I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to having b K on. I'm probably gonna argue
Speaker 1: with him, but um, but it'll be it'll be interesting.
Speaker 1: The times he's been on is always fun. He's he's
Speaker 1: a fun dude. So all right, have a great weekend everybody,
Speaker 1: And uh, you know what, if you're still hungry for
Speaker 1: a podcast, go check out The Power of Thought because
Speaker 1: I'll be recording a new one of those immediately following this.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Self Red Radio. New episodes up
Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and
Speaker 1: Twitter at self rep Radio. M