Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm Karren. We're sorry about last night, the anti slut
Speaker 1: shaming podcast. I never stopped. Hey fuckers, Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Guys We Fuck. It is the anti slut
Speaker 1: shaming podcast. I'm karenin Fisher. I'm Christina Hutchinson. Please rate, review,
Speaker 1: subscribe on iTunes. It's still important. It makes a big difference.
Speaker 1: And you can follow us on social media. We're sorry
Speaker 1: about last night on Instagram. It's s r y about
Speaker 1: last n y T on Twitter. And I'm philanthropy gal
Speaker 1: on all social media and I'm Christina Hudge. And did
Speaker 1: you guys know a man is facing felony charges for
Speaker 1: allegedly placing his testicles on an order of salsa because
Speaker 1: the customer only tipped eighty nine cents. Uh. In a
Speaker 1: Facebook video, formal driver for food delivery company says, this
Speaker 1: is what you get when you give an eighty nine
Speaker 1: cent tip. And I'm looking at the guy's head shot
Speaker 1: mug shot. Really uh, it looks like the kind of
Speaker 1: guy would dip his balls and some sauce and then
Speaker 1: give it to somebody's if he didn't. Thirty or one
Speaker 1: year old man from Maryville, Tennessee, is facing felony charges
Speaker 1: after police were notified of a video circulating on Facebook.
Speaker 1: God people, I knew that all the eats in the
Speaker 1: world are just gonna incriminate themselves, um purporting that to
Speaker 1: show him placing his testicles on a food order that
Speaker 1: he was that was being delivered by his friend. The
Speaker 1: act was supposedly in retaliation for nine cent tip. According
Speaker 1: to the incident report obtained by BuzzFeed News, Howard quote
Speaker 1: Matt Webber you know my name is Howard, but they
Speaker 1: call me Matt quotes was arrested Friday after police were
Speaker 1: notified of the video that was originally posted in January.
Speaker 1: The video has since been removed, but don't worry. If
Speaker 1: you Google his BuzzFeed article is on there. The video
Speaker 1: was allegedly filmed and posted by Chanese Booker, a former
Speaker 1: contracted driver for the food delivery company Dinner Delivered. Webb
Speaker 1: was accompanying Booker while she was out making the delivering question.
Speaker 1: Aleiah Wilson, the general manager of Dinner Delivered, told buzzfe
Speaker 1: News a third party contacted the company with the video, saying,
Speaker 1: quote your driver is doing this. Wilson then alerted the
Speaker 1: Maryville Police Department. In the video, which was re uploaded
Speaker 1: by a Facebook user named abrah Hannah, Webb is seen
Speaker 1: putting an open container of salsa to his testicles as
Speaker 1: Booker is filming it and laughing in the background. This
Speaker 1: is what you get when you give an eighty nine
Speaker 1: cent tip for almost a thirty minute drive. Bookers heard saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it feels good on my balls web ads. When reached
Speaker 1: for comment, Wilson confirmed the incident and told Buzzfe News
Speaker 1: that Dinner Delivered took the matter seriously. She said she
Speaker 1: immediately terminated the contract with Booker. However, in the initial
Speaker 1: phone interview, she attempted to downplay the severity of the act,
Speaker 1: repletedly calling it a joke and claiming Webb's testicles never
Speaker 1: actually touched the false Oh yeah, no, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: to be honest, crit and I watched that video and
Speaker 1: I didn't see his testicles touch the salsa. Um, they
Speaker 1: just dangles. Yeah, and who knows you also, is that
Speaker 1: salsa better than my mouth? I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 1: think out all the ship that we put in our
Speaker 1: mouth as women. That saucea can take it. I'm just
Speaker 1: imagining like women getting jealous of cups of salsa because
Speaker 1: guys would rather dip their balls in that than our mouths.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, you know, one less thing
Speaker 1: I gotta do. Doesn't talk, So the video doesn't show anything.
Speaker 1: It doesn't shows testicles, said Wilson. It was a joke,
Speaker 1: and the people filming it jokingly said they were doing this.
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed News has reached back out to Maryville Police Department,
Speaker 1: which is actively investigated the case about a claim. Wilson
Speaker 1: told BuzzFeed News, Yeah, maybe test a rape kit instead
Speaker 1: of doing that. Told buzzby News the company takes customer
Speaker 1: service and safety seriously and it never had a problem
Speaker 1: like this in the past. How do you know, motherfucker's
Speaker 1: because maybe they didn't upload a video of it on
Speaker 1: Facebook because that's kind of stupid, but also it's kind
Speaker 1: of stupid to dip your balls in salsa. The man
Speaker 1: who has been arrested has no affiliation with Dinner Delivered.
Speaker 1: The driver who was involved in the scenario has been
Speaker 1: let go. Hannah, the Facebook user who recirculated the video
Speaker 1: of Web committing what she called a nasty act, wrote
Speaker 1: that she quote called and reported it to her employer
Speaker 1: and they are doing nothing about this has on our hand,
Speaker 1: she really doesn't have anything else to do and working
Speaker 1: for her. According to the Daily Times, Web is being
Speaker 1: held in Blount County Blount County Jail, Blount. That sounds
Speaker 1: like a that sounds like a bad sexual act involving poop,
Speaker 1: Blount County Jail, and if convicted, he could face a
Speaker 1: possible sentence of three to fifteen years in prison. Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, I'd also like to take this time to
Speaker 1: remind you that brock Turner uh spent three months in
Speaker 1: prison after getting off early for good time, good behavior.
Speaker 1: I mean literally, he could have dipped balls in my
Speaker 1: salsa wall it was. I wouldn't think that he should
Speaker 1: get fifteen years. And we'll see, now this is actually
Speaker 1: maybe we just came up with a self defense thing.
Speaker 1: What if well, you know, you've gotta have a lot
Speaker 1: of tact if you're if you're being sexually assaulted. In
Speaker 1: this brock Turners case, this woman was passed out. But
Speaker 1: it's like somebody just go dip his testicles in the
Speaker 1: salsa and then we'll deliver it to somebody and then
Speaker 1: maybe brock Jurnal will get the time in prison that
Speaker 1: he deserves. Um. Yeah, so that's your news item, guys. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have more respect for a country as people, people
Speaker 1: getting the meals delivered than just ladies. Not my America,
Speaker 1: Not in my America. All right, come see us live
Speaker 1: or don't. Oh but I'm going. Oh I didn't know
Speaker 1: if I was saying this. Yeah, No, we're great, We're
Speaker 1: great live. Um. We're gonna be in temper Arizona. Everybody's Saturday,
Speaker 1: March thirty, that's coming up. We're at the Improv there
Speaker 1: for two shows only. Then we're headed to Indianapolis, Indiana,
Speaker 1: UH for Thursday April eighteen through Saturday April twenty at
Speaker 1: the Helium Comedy Club, which is like brand new just
Speaker 1: opening Sparkling yea. And then Boston, Massachusetts. Very excited Friday,
Speaker 1: May three, Wilbur Theater. We're gonna be there for one
Speaker 1: night only for the Women in Comedy Festival. Go to
Speaker 1: storry about Last Night Comedy dot com slash tours for
Speaker 1: all of our other dates. Tomorrow, March is a Saturday,
Speaker 1: and that's also the March Glamor Plus, which is hosted
Speaker 1: by myself and Wendy Starling, and it's a variety of acts,
Speaker 1: mostly stand up comedians. You're gonna see sketches, You're gonna
Speaker 1: see a lot of fun things, so you should come.
Speaker 1: Tickets are fifteen bucks, uh if they're not sold out yet.
Speaker 1: If they are, you can buy twenty tickets at the
Speaker 1: door Zinc Bar, eighty two West third Street Tomorrow March
Speaker 1: twenty three pm. And I'm going on a little mini
Speaker 1: verbal diarrhea tour, you know, just so I can ruin
Speaker 1: my career in other cities. Thank you. M On Thursday,
Speaker 1: March I'm going to be in Baltimore at mcgoobi's Joke
Speaker 1: House with special guests ian A Dukie, who you've heard
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Get those tickets. Then on April four,
Speaker 1: which is a Thursday, headed to Columbus, Ohio at Camelot Sellers.
Speaker 1: That first show already sold out, so they added a
Speaker 1: later show that is like at ten I believe UM
Speaker 1: and I have the one her full Wendy Steiner featuring
Speaker 1: UH for me on those shows. UH. For the Columbus
Speaker 1: show and the Cincinnati show, which I'll talk about in
Speaker 1: a second, you can use code a cop fee for
Speaker 1: five dollars off only for those codes. The other uh,
Speaker 1: those shows, the other ones don't have promo codes. Um.
Speaker 1: Then the following day, Friday, April five, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: It's technically Kentucky, but it's really Cincinnati. It's like an
Speaker 1: eight minute drive uh into Cincinnati. I am going to
Speaker 1: be at a wooden cask again. They also added a
Speaker 1: late show for that one, Wendy Signer opening code a
Speaker 1: cot fee for five dollars off. And then finally on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: Ap'm gonna be at the Brokerage in Belmore, New York
Speaker 1: with Mattie Smith featuring for me. Uh and all this
Speaker 1: information can also be found on my website, which is
Speaker 1: Karin Fisher dot com. I cleaned it up so only
Speaker 1: these shows are showing up with the links um and
Speaker 1: if you have any questions you can just leave a
Speaker 1: comment on my Instagram. It'll be great. And as always,
Speaker 1: you can listen to Too Less Lonely Girls on iTunes,
Speaker 1: Spotify wherever we're free. Oh yeah, I've I've actually been
Speaker 1: updating my website with all my dates. UM. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to promote him on here, but go to Christina
Speaker 1: Hudginson dot com because I'm featuring for some comedians of
Speaker 1: be in Chicago and some other places. So go to that. Yea,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the Michael Jackson documentary. Yes, we promised
Speaker 1: to you a conversation about the Michael Jackson documentary. We
Speaker 1: did our homework. We have completed the documentary. And uh,
Speaker 1: that was that was something. Yeah, he raped kids, Yeah
Speaker 1: he really did. He really raped kids. See. The thing was,
Speaker 1: I knew that something not okay was going on, but
Speaker 1: I think that what I thought in my mind was
Speaker 1: that it was a little bit more innocent and that
Speaker 1: he was also so damaged that he wasn't aware of
Speaker 1: the damage he was doing. But he was. He was aware,
Speaker 1: very aware. He had cut folking conversations with these children
Speaker 1: about how he these children were not to tell anybody
Speaker 1: because the children child would get arrested and he would
Speaker 1: get arrested. So he knew, he know what's wrong. A
Speaker 1: lot of manipulation, a lot of trying to get these
Speaker 1: children angry at women as a sex you know. And
Speaker 1: that was weird. That was very weird. That was very weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like you kind of revealed this like scary
Speaker 1: side of Michael Jackson that I don't think anyone was
Speaker 1: familiar with because he was such a beloved presence. Oh. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And and it still doesn't take away the fact that
Speaker 1: he's one of the greatest performers, but that he also
Speaker 1: is a child rapist. Yeah. You can be two things,
Speaker 1: you could you could be eight things. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's hard for people to handle those layers. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I was hearing about he touched kids
Speaker 1: or something, I didn't look into it. I didn't do
Speaker 1: my research. I didn't really care at the time. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be honest when this was happening as well, that's true,
Speaker 1: that's true. But even when I heard rumors about it
Speaker 1: was like a joke, like kind of a joke, and
Speaker 1: I just didn't look it up because I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't. It's not that I want children to be assaulted,
Speaker 1: but I just didn't do it. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't do it. And it wasn't because
Speaker 1: my Jackson is not one of my favorite performers. But
Speaker 1: if he was, certainly I can understand you going, you know.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to ruin Michael Jackson for myself
Speaker 1: because he's one of my idols. Yeah, people are like,
Speaker 1: we're fucking mind fun. Yeah, they're like, oh, why don't
Speaker 1: they believe? You know, why don't they you know, why
Speaker 1: are we picking and choosing who we believe. Well, it's
Speaker 1: like based on you know, popularity. It's like, it's because
Speaker 1: it's inconvenient, and people just don't like to be inconvenient.
Speaker 1: That's why no one believes in global warming. It's fucking facts.
Speaker 1: It's science, right, and it's you know, so it's like,
Speaker 1: we don't know Michael in real life, and it would
Speaker 1: be easier for most of us to not have to
Speaker 1: stop listening to our favorite songs and to have you know,
Speaker 1: your childhood memories or you know, memories from your wedding
Speaker 1: tarnished um and have to grapple with the fact that
Speaker 1: someone idolized for a long time was doing something really evil.
Speaker 1: It's that's really hard to do um. And then people
Speaker 1: bring up all these other you know, uh kind of
Speaker 1: people like Harvey Weinstein, the Harvey Weinstein accusations once they
Speaker 1: were out in Hollywood, because they were only inconvenient truths
Speaker 1: in Hollywood for people trying to make in the business.
Speaker 1: But it was very easy for us as a society
Speaker 1: to shut down Harvey Weinstein because Harvey Weinstein means nothing
Speaker 1: to the average person. And that's why, because people are like,
Speaker 1: well why not, you know, why uh, you know, Michael,
Speaker 1: and why is there a documentary about Harvey because fucking
Speaker 1: Harvey weinne seems boring and no one wants to watch
Speaker 1: that fat fuck you know. That's why, Michael Jackson, Harvey
Speaker 1: Weinstein didn't mean anything to anybody, Yeah, exactly, he was
Speaker 1: only he only meant something to people who had careers
Speaker 1: that in Hollywood, and that's why it stayed in Hollywood
Speaker 1: so long. But once it was released to the average person,
Speaker 1: he was he was damaged and done and burnt to
Speaker 1: a crisp immediately because it didn't matter. Michael Jackson means
Speaker 1: a lot to a lot of people, a lot of people, um,
Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of different you know, uh,
Speaker 1: cultural backgrounds, and and so that's a really hard one
Speaker 1: to get. He was the world both to the world,
Speaker 1: and he had this you know, he and he spends
Speaker 1: a lot of time with children. You know, some of
Speaker 1: it was okay, and then a lot of it was
Speaker 1: well the ones that you know, when it was like
Speaker 1: when he was in groups, you know, or there was
Speaker 1: a camera, you know. Yeah, yeah, And it's and and
Speaker 1: there's always a backlash with with celebrities when they were
Speaker 1: accused of things because we feel so passionately about them.
Speaker 1: And it goes back to the same thing like that
Speaker 1: we talked about with the R. Kelly documentary. The power
Speaker 1: of celebrity is just this unbreakable loop because the reason Wade,
Speaker 1: how is it Robeson Robson who I know, I bought
Speaker 1: his VHS te spears. Yeah, he's famous in his own
Speaker 1: right and he was defending Michael for years and then
Speaker 1: everyone's like, well, why did you change your story? But
Speaker 1: because he also was having real trouble, you know, rationalizing
Speaker 1: the fact that this person who he idolized and had
Speaker 1: helped him a lot separately from molesting him, Um, was
Speaker 1: this bad person in many ways. That was hard. And
Speaker 1: also if you watch the documentary, these two now men
Speaker 1: were actually we're in love with Michael Jackson, and that
Speaker 1: is it's very hard for anyone, but we certainly know
Speaker 1: what this is. Heterosexual women, um, you know, to come
Speaker 1: to terms with the fact that the person you were
Speaker 1: in love with is maybe not a great person. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's you know, and these secrets have been killing
Speaker 1: these people for years. Like you you see these two
Speaker 1: men who's not only their lives, but the lives of
Speaker 1: their families, their wives, their their children, when they were taught,
Speaker 1: when Wade, when Wade's wife was talking about when she
Speaker 1: found out and the way he the way he blacked
Speaker 1: out these memories or or the fact that it was
Speaker 1: bad and then having his daughter born and then imagining
Speaker 1: some adult monster doing that to his daughter, and he
Speaker 1: wanted to freak out, but then he still went what
Speaker 1: like a year of being suicidally depressed and not really
Speaker 1: knowing why it's so sad. I think with this, I
Speaker 1: think with this documentary did a great job of that
Speaker 1: the R. Kelly doc didn't cover was was the Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the kind of the ripple effect of abuse. Because
Speaker 1: we just saw the stories of the women UM in
Speaker 1: the Arcadey Duck and they were terrible, and I believed
Speaker 1: everything that they said and all that. But I think
Speaker 1: to see a ripple effect UM and how it can
Speaker 1: literally pass through generations UM was really powerful and they
Speaker 1: did a great job of that UM and like and
Speaker 1: and also just a deeper look into Michael Jackson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he did a lot of great things, but you can
Speaker 1: see on the outside that something was wrong, that he
Speaker 1: was compensating, you know, like he obviously had some kind
Speaker 1: of an inner turmoil, and so he was like changing
Speaker 1: the way his actual face was. And I'm sure he
Speaker 1: had trouble looking in the mirror, you know, he he
Speaker 1: was obviously he knew what he was doing was wrong,
Speaker 1: and he just didn't. Yeah, I don't know, but he
Speaker 1: didn't make any effort seemingly to get help or to
Speaker 1: stop it or um. And he certainly had the money
Speaker 1: and resources to do protect himself from that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean people just being in all of his fame
Speaker 1: and then this family being like Michael Jackson calls my
Speaker 1: house and comes over for dinner and hangs out with
Speaker 1: my kid like that. You're gonna that's a shock that
Speaker 1: no human being can handle in a cool way. Oh
Speaker 1: and guess you know what. Guess what piece of advice
Speaker 1: rings true also in this what no adult man wants
Speaker 1: to be your friend? I just thought of that, right,
Speaker 1: that's especially for children. I mean, but the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy your friend. Like I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: like an influence like Mr Rogers or something, because he
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to hang out with kids. Yeah, he wasn't
Speaker 1: hanging out with a television show. No adult man wants
Speaker 1: to be your friend. It's okay. And you hear the
Speaker 1: and then you hear like Wade's mom talking and she's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't even want to hear. You know, the stories
Speaker 1: of what happens going to give me nightmares. It's like,
Speaker 1: yo boo, I think Wade has nightmares, so oh yeah, waste.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is just fucking thank it is. I
Speaker 1: appreciate so much that these two men agreed to say
Speaker 1: all the things and their families spoke out. That is
Speaker 1: really those of the vulnerability in these interviews. It reminded
Speaker 1: me of the the openness of all the women who
Speaker 1: have been abused by r Kelley. Like it's yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: thank god we're having these conversations at the level that
Speaker 1: we're having them at, because that's no bullshit. Now, these
Speaker 1: families were torn apart. I mean there's you know, parents
Speaker 1: are committing suicide and these things, and I'm a sure
Speaker 1: direct result. You know, I never you can never blame
Speaker 1: suicide on anything but mental health, but I mean that
Speaker 1: you know that doesn't help Um. Now I I while
Speaker 1: you were talking about this, I looked up an email.
Speaker 1: Oh well, it's it was sent on my birthday a
Speaker 1: year ago. Oh. Um, we're going to read an email,
Speaker 1: but it's the subject line as you asked, you sell
Speaker 1: shall receive in parentheses. I'm a pedophile and I was
Speaker 1: just scrolling through it. Um, it's a really long email.
Speaker 1: Uh oh. We never ended up reading this on the podcast,
Speaker 1: Okay should we? I mean, it's it's real, like a novel.
Speaker 1: But I'll just read um. And And also, I mean
Speaker 1: trigger warnings are an actual thing. That's why we make
Speaker 1: fun of them because the word is overused, because the
Speaker 1: term actually exists. It's like, when you really need it,
Speaker 1: you need to be able to use it. But one
Speaker 1: of the first paragraphs I was, Jesus Crisis is a novel. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so long. Yeah, well, I mean that's I'm really
Speaker 1: glad this person at least told us about it, because
Speaker 1: you never hear from the pedophile. I want to know
Speaker 1: what what happened. Um, But just I just thought this
Speaker 1: was interesting. Is the first Parrish? So here it goes.
Speaker 1: I told you a while back I would send you
Speaker 1: an email. Couldn't bring myself to reread or edit this
Speaker 1: for a long time now. I added a few things, capitalized,
Speaker 1: a few eyes, and whatnot I did. I did feel uh,
Speaker 1: I did leave a few things out that aren't really important,
Speaker 1: I think compared to what I put in, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of like how I don't listen to Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: very much, not to think, not that I think he
Speaker 1: did it, but how it makes me think of myself.
Speaker 1: The paragraphs are sentences that don't really flow. Are probably
Speaker 1: the ones that I just added. It's a long time
Speaker 1: and I don't really um uh. And this is a
Speaker 1: guy who prayed on so just like listening to Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson because of the us out are true about him
Speaker 1: reminded him of his own I'm off, yes, exactly, but
Speaker 1: I'm off for one day. I think maybe I can
Speaker 1: summarize the interesting points in this emo because it isn't
Speaker 1: really fucking long, but I think it's worth because it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: how do we help make this problem go away? How
Speaker 1: do we actually solve the problem? Step number one is
Speaker 1: talking about it in the in the honest, vulnerable way
Speaker 1: that the two men and all the women in the
Speaker 1: Arkelly documentary and the family members, just talking about it, honestly,
Speaker 1: even if you're afraid, like the parents of these men,
Speaker 1: the mothers were being honest about they didn't think anything
Speaker 1: was wrong. And oh a hundred percent, I was thinking
Speaker 1: about that because part of the reason that this was
Speaker 1: able to happen for so long kind of in the
Speaker 1: public eye, was because no one fucking will talk about pedophilia.
Speaker 1: I know, it's the kid. No one was talking about
Speaker 1: drunk driving, she said, So people were drinking driving drunk
Speaker 1: all the time because no one was talking about pedophilia
Speaker 1: is something that happens so much more than people understand.
Speaker 1: And you look at the Catholic church scandals, look at
Speaker 1: the I mean, there's so many kids were sexually abused.
Speaker 1: It's crazy to me. But one of the things, okay,
Speaker 1: so talking about it, that's number one, right, and talking
Speaker 1: about saying the word pedophile, just say the fucking word.
Speaker 1: And then the guy who wrote us this long email,
Speaker 1: he said, the way you talk about it in a
Speaker 1: way that's like, don't you don't say kill all pedophiles,
Speaker 1: but you actually say, hey, maybe there should be some resources,
Speaker 1: like a fucking anonymous hotline that you can call and
Speaker 1: get support, because otherwise you're shutting from society. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get mad, you're gonna hate yourself, you're gonna kill yourself,
Speaker 1: or you're gonna do the thing that you're not supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing. Yeah, because I truly believe you can't
Speaker 1: help having those feelings. But you can absolutely not fun kids.
Speaker 1: You can totally not. We really know that you cannot
Speaker 1: fuck it. This American Life episode called Tartan Feather, they
Speaker 1: interviewed a pedophile with a voice disguise on in the
Speaker 1: the That person did not commit any acts against children
Speaker 1: and created a resource online for other pedoph people who
Speaker 1: had pedophilic instincts who also did not fuck children. And
Speaker 1: if you fucked kids, you were booted out of the group.
Speaker 1: I believe because that's correct. And now, look, I can
Speaker 1: talk about the because I don't have children. I have
Speaker 1: a nephew. If anyone fucking touched him, I would probably
Speaker 1: murder them. So I can speak about this from a
Speaker 1: place that I don't know, and you know, I don't
Speaker 1: have the personal experience, so I'm not as angrily fueled.
Speaker 1: I can actually let my logic through, which I'm actually
Speaker 1: trying to stop it before it happens. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: because that's the thing, and you do need to talk
Speaker 1: to your kids, maybe not in so many words, but
Speaker 1: you need to have conversations with children. And my mom
Speaker 1: certainly did about if a bad touch or if an
Speaker 1: adult comes up to you in a certain way, or like,
Speaker 1: you know, interactions that are appropriate between adults and kids.
Speaker 1: And that's why it's important to if a kid does
Speaker 1: not want to be hugged by a strange adult, to
Speaker 1: allow them to make that choice and not force them
Speaker 1: to receive kisses and hugs from fucking It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: who it is. If you don't want to fucking kiss
Speaker 1: your grandpa, you don't have to because you know what,
Speaker 1: maybe that kid has an instinct that you're missing out on,
Speaker 1: because kids have this very pure, kind of like an animal, uh,
Speaker 1: this instinct about other human beings, where as adults try
Speaker 1: to rationalize based on other things that we know about
Speaker 1: these people. Yeah. Absolutely, so they need to be resource
Speaker 1: and because if to have the option of hope for
Speaker 1: somebody who is has the terrible misfortune of having these
Speaker 1: fucking urges. Yeah, I can't even imagine that's how we
Speaker 1: start preventing children from being raped and touched. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just what I just the people, the fact that there
Speaker 1: is such a large chunk of people who do shy
Speaker 1: away from it. I'm like, you guys are making the
Speaker 1: problem worse because I know it makes you feel unomfortable.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what else makes people feel uncomfortable?
Speaker 1: Kids getting fucked? So just we have to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm so I was just so happy to see
Speaker 1: a documentary. I mean, there's so few even pieces of
Speaker 1: media about it. So it's like that the Tart and
Speaker 1: Feathered podcast there was a pedophile perfect perfect I mean
Speaker 1: they should have called it kind of file park. Even
Speaker 1: that they couldn't call it pedophile park, I'm sure there was,
Speaker 1: like because I would have been like, you know, that
Speaker 1: would have been like the appropriate name. They were all pedophiles,
Speaker 1: and um, it's it's it's yes, it's uncomfortable and it's
Speaker 1: gross thing. It's it's unimaginable. We gotta keep talk thinking
Speaker 1: about the stuff, and that's what's going to birth the
Speaker 1: hope that something will be done about it. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's it's just I mean, it's just happening to too
Speaker 1: many people, and it's you know, just like any type
Speaker 1: of survivor. These people have intense trauma that they're living
Speaker 1: with that affects the rest of their lives. And also
Speaker 1: they're carrying the shame that they shouldn't because their kids
Speaker 1: and they didn't do anything wrong. Um. All right, topic
Speaker 1: pivot before we end, before we introduce the guests this week.
Speaker 1: Who is incredible discussion. I'm so excited about it. Uh,
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Speaker 1: by April twenty two. Okay, our guests this weekend. One
Speaker 1: is an eleven year old drag kid, awarded lgbt Q advocate,
Speaker 1: outspoken gay youth, editorial and runaway model, public speaker, performer
Speaker 1: and founder of his own drag house. And the other
Speaker 1: person is his loving, supportive, incredible mother. Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: Please welcome to the show. Amzing Wendy. So to me
Speaker 1: your favorite song and I'll learn to sing, and I'll
Speaker 1: sing it all wrong with I'll scream everyone like it's
Speaker 1: a long home where we belong and we can scream
Speaker 1: anything as loud as we want will outside home please us.
Speaker 1: But I'm not the ben I hope do you send
Speaker 1: word crossm We are here with Desmond is amazing how
Speaker 1: I and his dragon cher slash Mom. Wendy. Hello, Hi guys,
Speaker 1: very happy you're here. Thanks for coming out. No problem. Oh,
Speaker 1: I love your Both of you have amazing hair, polorful hair.
Speaker 1: It's really beautiful. Do you switch the colors in your hair? Desmond? Often? Not?
Speaker 1: Really not so Desmond. You are a drag queen, jack kid,
Speaker 1: drag kid, right kid, jack kid kid, drag queen hits
Speaker 1: when you're eighteen? Right? Well for a drag kid? How
Speaker 1: much I've never You're the first drag kid I've ever
Speaker 1: been introduced to. I learned about you on Instagram. I
Speaker 1: thought you were as the name mentioned, amazing, so well done,
Speaker 1: great name Brandon um and uh are you? Are you
Speaker 1: the first drag kid you know? Or did you see
Speaker 1: another drag kid and say hey, I want to do that?
Speaker 1: I was the first ever jacket in the history of
Speaker 1: drag kidded, drag kittery drag your hall of Fame? Well,
Speaker 1: is there a drag kid at Hall of Fame? Will?
Speaker 1: I don't know? Maybe? So what made you want to
Speaker 1: become a drag kid? While I was watching with Paul's
Speaker 1: drag Race when I was too and I was like
Speaker 1: playing one of my trains lollidah. Then my father to woman,
Speaker 1: I'm like looking up at the TV screen and I'm
Speaker 1: like Desmonds looking up at the TV screen. Guys, you're
Speaker 1: just mesmerized. And then ah, after the show was over, Um,
Speaker 1: I um grabbed some of like my mom's dresses and
Speaker 1: put them on and some of her high heels on
Speaker 1: and locked around the house and you're like this and
Speaker 1: so this is when you're two years old. So you're
Speaker 1: you're a very You're you were just done with other
Speaker 1: stuff when you saw this. When when you saw RuPaul's
Speaker 1: drag Drag Race, is that correct? And what did you
Speaker 1: like about the drag queens that you saw on TV?
Speaker 1: They were dressing up as kare there's them being themselves. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's we live in a world, I feel like
Speaker 1: where people so often aren't themselves or don't have the
Speaker 1: freedom to be themselves. So it's really nice to see
Speaker 1: somebody just without any cares. Krinn Um. When we started
Speaker 1: working together, Um, she would take me to drag shows
Speaker 1: a lot, and I we go often, and drag shows
Speaker 1: to me are the some of the best nights I
Speaker 1: ever have, because it's just it's inclusive, it's fun, and
Speaker 1: it's people being stepping into a character and it feels
Speaker 1: like they're just being so free and that's amazing to watch.
Speaker 1: Do you feel free when you perform drag very much?
Speaker 1: Do you feel free in other areas of your life?
Speaker 1: Or is that for you the time when you feel
Speaker 1: most yourself? I feel it myself all the time. Good. Well,
Speaker 1: that's I mean that's a great stom piece. And so
Speaker 1: currently you're eleven years old? Does that correct? And approximately
Speaker 1: million years old? Eleven million? Wow, that's old, eleven going
Speaker 1: on eighty grand so um so, so what's it like
Speaker 1: for you? So? How do you decide when you do drag?
Speaker 1: How do you decide what do you want to wear?
Speaker 1: How do you want to do the makeup? How did
Speaker 1: you learn to do makeup? I have so many questions about,
Speaker 1: like just how getting into that and learning the skills
Speaker 1: that are required because drag queens and drag kids, I
Speaker 1: would imagine you have to be kind of like a seamstress,
Speaker 1: a wardrobe person, because that's really your outfit is huge.
Speaker 1: You have to pick out the music, the piece, You
Speaker 1: have to choreograph your own stuff and the makeup and
Speaker 1: all of that. So how did you start learning about this?
Speaker 1: You watch RuPaul's drag race, But how do you get
Speaker 1: the skills? I just taught myself using like drag Queen
Speaker 1: books with like drac Queen pictures and then um and
Speaker 1: um the costumes. I just get something out of the
Speaker 1: craft room, asked my mom. They like this, we always
Speaker 1: agree and then uh, if me and her like it,
Speaker 1: then we do it. If we don't like it, then uh,
Speaker 1: we don't do it and pick something else. Have you
Speaker 1: ever picked out an outfit and your mom was like,
Speaker 1: you can't wear that? Probably? And how do you decide
Speaker 1: what song you want to you want to use? Because
Speaker 1: I would imagine that's the backbone of the performance for
Speaker 1: each gig, right. Uh, my mom sometimes puts puts on
Speaker 1: these songs from the nineties and she was in high
Speaker 1: school in the nineties, and um, I like the song
Speaker 1: so much to say, Ma, can I can I live
Speaker 1: think this? And she's like okay. And then how long
Speaker 1: does it take you to choreograph it? Not long? Maybe
Speaker 1: like two nights? Wow? And is it just you working
Speaker 1: alone or is your dragons are there with you? Slash mom? Ye.
Speaker 1: My mom is a really good dancer. Okay. She can
Speaker 1: do a split wow. And she can do an aerial
Speaker 1: summersault twist oh wow. Really she's a gymnast. That's incredible
Speaker 1: that when I feel based on your mom's reaction might
Speaker 1: not be true. Um. So yeah, let's through your life
Speaker 1: a little bit. So before you saw your first ever
Speaker 1: episode of RuPaul's Drag Race, what was life like for you?
Speaker 1: I mean you're obviously so young, but like, what were
Speaker 1: you doing before drag? Do you even remember or to crying?
Speaker 1: Because that's what all babies do, giving my mom and
Speaker 1: dad a headache. You're an old soul, my friends. Do
Speaker 1: you remember any interest that you had, Like, were you
Speaker 1: in the arts at all? Dancing? Trains? Trains? Okay, you're
Speaker 1: into trains, and so now what you do drag? What?
Speaker 1: How often? How much of your life does that consume?
Speaker 1: I think it's just an everyday thing for me, and
Speaker 1: I don't think it consumes time. I just do it
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, it's just like part of who
Speaker 1: you are now and what great are you in? I
Speaker 1: am in the sixth grade and next year will be right,
Speaker 1: How do you like sixth grade? It's yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 1: At least some of these things are like so new,
Speaker 1: like letters, My mom don't understand it. Letters as in
Speaker 1: writing letters, Well, that's something my generation did. I don't
Speaker 1: think your generation has to worry about that as much. No, No,
Speaker 1: like the like the adding the letters. But do you
Speaker 1: mean in math? Yeah, an squared algebra stuff. Okay, so algebra. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have the core method now and we didn't learn that.
Speaker 1: So oh blows my mind why they need all these
Speaker 1: extra steps to you know, solve an equation. Some some
Speaker 1: some real life math problems are so silly, like blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, was driving up a hill at sixty knots?
Speaker 1: Not a boat? Uh no in the car? How many
Speaker 1: miles per hour was he going? And you just put
Speaker 1: he can just look at the unless it's in nine. Wow, dang,
Speaker 1: you know your cars. What an innovative answer. So what
Speaker 1: about like social life in school for you? Like, do
Speaker 1: you have friends that you love? Do you have a
Speaker 1: lot of fans at school? Fans? All? That's awesome? So people?
Speaker 1: Do people kind of look at you as Desmond is
Speaker 1: amazing when you're at school? Yeah? Yeah? And do are
Speaker 1: are so most of your your all your friends are supportive?
Speaker 1: Yeah that's really cool. Um are does anybody give you
Speaker 1: flak for for what doing drag? Being a drag kid? No?
Speaker 1: That well, that's good. That's good to know because I
Speaker 1: remember I got bullied in school for just the dumbest stuff.
Speaker 1: And uh, and that's amazing. I'm glad that. Did you
Speaker 1: ever get bullied in school? Um? Probably, but I didn't
Speaker 1: pay much attention. That's a good that's a good attitude
Speaker 1: to have. It's yeah, it's hard. Not it's hard. It's
Speaker 1: hard for me not to internalize it. And I know
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of kids get bullied in school.
Speaker 1: Like do you have any advice for anybody getting bullied
Speaker 1: in school? Like how they can either just just how
Speaker 1: they can rephrase how they think it in their head.
Speaker 1: My motto be yourself always says that's a good model.
Speaker 1: You say that so quick, I know. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, we might have to stay it again.
Speaker 1: Slow can My motto is be yourself always, no matter
Speaker 1: what anyone says, and pay the haters no because I'll
Speaker 1: never be a truth age you and I. Okay, So
Speaker 1: be yourself no no matter what anyone anyone says, and
Speaker 1: pay the haters no mind because they'll never be as
Speaker 1: fierce as you and I. Is that correct? Got it? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then you have to do this son with your mouth.
Speaker 1: But I honestly, I don't think I can do that, right,
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's good. I can't do it. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: mom does it like this, So some people don't. I
Speaker 1: guess I can't do it that as hard as you
Speaker 1: can either, Like, yeah, there's there's nothing going on up there.
Speaker 1: That's it's very impressive. It's not easy to do. Um.
Speaker 1: So there's the drag video of you performing at New
Speaker 1: York City Pride in and that went viral, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of what started a lot of people talking about you.
Speaker 1: Um what was it like to have a performance of
Speaker 1: yours go viral? It was crazy? But um, I thought
Speaker 1: it was gonna last forever only lats for like a
Speaker 1: like a few weeks, and then like there were barely
Speaker 1: anyone talking about me. Well, so when you when you
Speaker 1: filmed it, did you hope that it was going to
Speaker 1: go viral? And that you did you hope that everyone's
Speaker 1: to say it? No? I was just like ms right.
Speaker 1: And then so when you say that it didn't go
Speaker 1: on forever, did you hope that? Like? Did it did
Speaker 1: it feel good and you wanted it to go on forever? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But you got a lot of interviews out of that
Speaker 1: video right, So so that's that's exciting. But then like
Speaker 1: in like I did the legacy ball and then I
Speaker 1: just went up and what's the legacy ball? It's I
Speaker 1: haven't wanted my tongue voguing ball. Oh, yes, the vogueing ball. Oh,
Speaker 1: vogue ball. And can you explain to anybody who doesn't
Speaker 1: know what voguing is, because I'm vaguely familiar. Is a
Speaker 1: type of dance someone does? Wow, what's like a dance
Speaker 1: move that's like? Is that where that you frame your
Speaker 1: face with your hands? Is it more than that? Or
Speaker 1: is that all voting is that it can't go beyond that,
Speaker 1: because that's all I know it to be. You can
Speaker 1: go away beyond that. You can do like a dip
Speaker 1: they do, do you always have to have your hands
Speaker 1: framing your face so while you're dipping. No, okay, so
Speaker 1: that's just like a starting point and then you can
Speaker 1: kind of go wild from there. So so you you're
Speaker 1: you're somebody who I'm sure inspires a lot of people,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if you've noticed, but sometimes people
Speaker 1: grow up to become adults who who, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: don't feel free and feel themselves and feel that they
Speaker 1: can act like themselves, and a lot of times I've
Speaker 1: noticed over the years that that can make somebody not
Speaker 1: say nice things or be mean or cruel to other
Speaker 1: people because they're not happy with themselves. But is there
Speaker 1: any time in your life, or any area in your life,
Speaker 1: whether it's school or hanging out with your friends, where
Speaker 1: you feel any type of constriction, like you feel like
Speaker 1: you can't be yourself around x y Z. Well, I
Speaker 1: think I should always be myself because I don't want
Speaker 1: to lose any confidence in myself. And in my opinion
Speaker 1: for you um listening out there, I think that you
Speaker 1: should be accepting on yourself because when negatient comes comes up,
Speaker 1: you'll be able to deal with it. That's just what
Speaker 1: I think. But now that's true. I'm actually reading a
Speaker 1: book about self esteem, and that's like, if you have
Speaker 1: strong self esteem, you're able to handle any situation as
Speaker 1: it comes at you with like grace and ease, but
Speaker 1: not good. Well. I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 1: but like loving yourself and having self esteem and self confidence,
Speaker 1: especially as young as eleven years old, is very rare.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty three and like most people my age, don't
Speaker 1: even have self confidence, which you know that that that
Speaker 1: will that's that will provide a lot of issues later,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to worry about them now. Um,
Speaker 1: so do you think where do you think your self
Speaker 1: esteem comes from? Did you always have it? Did your
Speaker 1: parents teach it to you? Are particular like performer who
Speaker 1: you watch who makes you feel confident? I think I
Speaker 1: was just born confident. Yeah, and and mom slash dragontor
Speaker 1: can you uh can you confirm this? Or uh? Probably
Speaker 1: he was born that way. But he did listen to
Speaker 1: a lot of Gaga when he was small, so maybe
Speaker 1: that was it. Oh, Lady Gaga very empowering. She is
Speaker 1: very empowering. And and now like do you you you
Speaker 1: you're married to correct? I am so you and your
Speaker 1: husband did you set up like a confident household? Was
Speaker 1: that something you worked on or was it just kind
Speaker 1: of like be who you be, who you are, nurturing
Speaker 1: the child, just nurturing the child and letting him develop
Speaker 1: and explore his interest? Really and when did you kind
Speaker 1: of realize perhaps Desmond was amazing, more amazing than u.
Speaker 1: He used to steal my sheets, especially fitted sheets. He
Speaker 1: used to take cardboard, bubble wrap, but in towels, basically
Speaker 1: any think he could get his hands on to create
Speaker 1: these really crazy outfits that you know, maybe he could
Speaker 1: have worked for Alexander McQueen. Yeah. So I noticed he
Speaker 1: had like a knack for fashion and he still loves fashion. Um.
Speaker 1: And then once he like discovered that he could just
Speaker 1: mix it all together and create characters. I think that's
Speaker 1: when it really snapped for him. I think it's about
Speaker 1: when he was six seven years old, he really wanted
Speaker 1: to be Elsa for Frozen. Frozen, so he got the
Speaker 1: costume and it's like something just clicked there. And Halloween Parade, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we went to the Village Halloween Parade that year. He
Speaker 1: shredded it, of course. Nice don't doubt it now. Um.
Speaker 1: I know, like some performers, like my favorite performer in
Speaker 1: the world is Beyonce, and she's talked a lot about
Speaker 1: how she can be kind of introverted when she's not performing,
Speaker 1: and then when she is performing, she talks about how
Speaker 1: she feels like a different person. Sasha Fierce is her
Speaker 1: like on stage ego or alter ego? Do you feel
Speaker 1: like you step into a character when you're doing drag
Speaker 1: or do you feel like it's just more of an
Speaker 1: extension of yourself. I think it's just me being me.
Speaker 1: And um, I don't think it's any extension or I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm just going to like personality more. I
Speaker 1: think it's just me seeing me. Man, you are a
Speaker 1: well adjusted kid. Um, And now how like how do
Speaker 1: you how does it drag? Kid? Get started and drag?
Speaker 1: Either of you can answer this question. And like when
Speaker 1: you go to your mom like it's because you know
Speaker 1: drag is happening. And I know some problems arise from
Speaker 1: this in in bars, in theaters and it's mostly older people,
Speaker 1: but there's nothing. I mean, I've watched a lot of
Speaker 1: drag in my life, and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people are maybe unclear about what the art of drag
Speaker 1: is and are lumping it in with other things like stripping,
Speaker 1: which is a completely different thing. Can you clarify that
Speaker 1: a little bit from first, Drag is just a way
Speaker 1: of dressing yourself and becoming a character. Um, it's a
Speaker 1: form of art, and I think you should except that
Speaker 1: because it's it's like someone dressing up. It's just basically
Speaker 1: someone dressing up. But and so the and like in
Speaker 1: the opposite like stripping would be taking clothes off drag,
Speaker 1: you're actually wearing more clothes and you usually wear correct
Speaker 1: and people like people like, I don't I love my dog.
Speaker 1: That's okay, moms want to stop in while you think
Speaker 1: I'll step in. I think that it's uh. They get
Speaker 1: the idea that he's stripping because a couple of numbers
Speaker 1: he likes to do reveals, for instance, Twin's De Fannie numbers.
Speaker 1: He used to come out in a nightgown with some
Speaker 1: dolls and then he would take off the nightgown and
Speaker 1: he would be dressed like wwen's the funny, like completely
Speaker 1: dressed underneath. But people still call that stripping. And you know,
Speaker 1: as far as I know, stripping is when you take
Speaker 1: clothes off to get more naked. That's pretty much the definition. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't getting naked. He just he was fully clothed.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny to me that people would say
Speaker 1: that's stripping. So yeah, I think you're right. And it's
Speaker 1: the something that people don't understand. They're going to make
Speaker 1: it into something else so it fits their narrative. I
Speaker 1: think people should just except dragon, just accept that it's
Speaker 1: a type of art that people do. Um. Sure, it's
Speaker 1: not like all like lots of arts, but it's a
Speaker 1: type of art form. Yeah, well for sure. And I
Speaker 1: think because sometimes you know, as a comedian, a lot
Speaker 1: of comedy happens in bars, and I do think that's
Speaker 1: part of the reason why sometimes comedy is on the
Speaker 1: like on the lower end of the totem pole as
Speaker 1: far as like the level of respect it gets as
Speaker 1: an art form because you know, if people say, oh,
Speaker 1: you're doing it in a bar, you're doing it in
Speaker 1: this space where you go at night, where you drink,
Speaker 1: where you get loose. But comedy is amazing the same
Speaker 1: way drag can be amazing, and it can change change
Speaker 1: the life of the person doing it. It can change
Speaker 1: the life of the person watching it. Um And just
Speaker 1: gonna go back um to the word reveal. I don't
Speaker 1: know if everyone is like drag fluent, but reveals an
Speaker 1: actual drag term meaning you take a piece of clothing off,
Speaker 1: but you're not revealing a body part. You're revealing another outfit.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can reveal another wig, you can reveal a
Speaker 1: prop like the Violet Tragy one. Oh, I don't know
Speaker 1: that one wants to remember the one where she did
Speaker 1: that fashion show Oh yes, she like pulled a string
Speaker 1: and a whole new outfit just appeared cool. Or Sasha
Speaker 1: Vlert did one too, or she took off her wig
Speaker 1: and rose petals fell off of her. If someone called
Speaker 1: that stripping, then that's just like they have a weird
Speaker 1: definition of stripping. Yeah one again. I think it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, because drag is not something that everyone's you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of seeing comedy. Everyone's probably actually more familiar
Speaker 1: with what stripping is as a form of self expression
Speaker 1: than drag, because drag is just not It's not like
Speaker 1: you're not gonna ever, you know, turn on the TV
Speaker 1: until Rue Paul's Drag Race came on and see drag.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't something that we had, you know, welcomed
Speaker 1: as mainstream entertainment in our culture. Um and what do
Speaker 1: you like, what do you hope for the future of
Speaker 1: drag h as an art form? And how do you
Speaker 1: think we can, like people can get more involved in
Speaker 1: it or enjoy it or understand it more. What are
Speaker 1: what are things that people can do? I think people
Speaker 1: just need to accept the fact that people like to
Speaker 1: dress up, um like just a bit drag. Well, and
Speaker 1: so in your in your experience when like, were you
Speaker 1: familiar with drag as an art form before watching RuPaul's
Speaker 1: Drag Race or before Desmond got really interested in it?
Speaker 1: Um not extensively. As much as I had seen was
Speaker 1: like RuPaul's Supermodel video, and you would see him like
Speaker 1: on MTV, and I think you have like a talk
Speaker 1: show for a while. Very occasionally you'd see characters on
Speaker 1: the Kids in the Hall. I think I'm probably dating
Speaker 1: myself now, you know. Are you see him like on skits,
Speaker 1: like on Saturday Night Live or something? And um so
Speaker 1: I never, I'm never like, I never was one that
Speaker 1: was going to like a lot of drag shows are
Speaker 1: really emerged in the culture, but I did kind of
Speaker 1: have an idea of what it was. Do you remember
Speaker 1: your first formal performance as a drag kid. I think
Speaker 1: it was one of secret Brodrick Robot right, I think that, Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that could have been your
Speaker 1: so low official performance here. You did do a performance
Speaker 1: in Jings mont soon as music yea seven yeah, Bacon check.
Speaker 1: So your first solo performance that was live. How long
Speaker 1: ago was that? Is that two thousand eighteen? Maybe January
Speaker 1: two thousand It was two done I think you're right
Speaker 1: because we start the Legacy volunteer down seventeen. You're right
Speaker 1: early eighteen. Yeah, okay, I'll go at that. How recently,
Speaker 1: how did you book it? How did you get in?
Speaker 1: How did you know where to go and and and Desmond?
Speaker 1: Where you like? I need I want to perform now,
Speaker 1: I want to see it. I want to be a
Speaker 1: part of a show. Well, my mom does my emails
Speaker 1: to arm she Uh. I believe it was horror Chatta
Speaker 1: that had reached out and said we would just love
Speaker 1: to have Desmon come and perform. Um, we have a
Speaker 1: performance space and um, you know, we'll make it a
Speaker 1: the people that when he comes to perform, they're very
Speaker 1: respectful the fact that he's a kid, so you know
Speaker 1: they want to make it a safe environment. Um, it
Speaker 1: was an all ages show. Uh So, I mean it
Speaker 1: was just a really positive experience and it's I love it.
Speaker 1: I liked what you said in one of the I
Speaker 1: think it's like a CBS Morning interview about the The
Speaker 1: woman interviewing you was asking about people sexualizing it and
Speaker 1: what do you say to that, and your answer was
Speaker 1: something along the lines of like, well, if they're sexualizing
Speaker 1: that that's their problem, which I couldn't agree more because
Speaker 1: I feel like drag drag is something I love going
Speaker 1: to drag shows so much because it just instills in
Speaker 1: me this like playfulness and confidence and but something that
Speaker 1: is sexy, it's just something. It's a totally different category.
Speaker 1: So does that do you? Just? Do people come at
Speaker 1: you with that a lot? They do? They come at
Speaker 1: me a lot with that? Um, I just I think
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous because when kids are kids, I mean, their
Speaker 1: bodies are kind of almost the same, you know, it
Speaker 1: does it's not till later they develop sexual features or whatever.
Speaker 1: So if you're looking at a kid who's basically I
Speaker 1: mean their kids, why are you thinking about sex? It
Speaker 1: really really disturbs me, Like that's your first thought. And
Speaker 1: it's the same way with people that screen pedophile, Like
Speaker 1: why are you making that connection? It just it disturbs me.
Speaker 1: What in your head is happening that that's where you're
Speaker 1: going with that? Yeah, look in the mirror, my friend,
Speaker 1: because I mean, like most kids are like you know,
Speaker 1: they're like you know, like there's like sex, Like they
Speaker 1: haven't seem exactly like you said, body type and beauty
Speaker 1: pageants for for young girls. It's like, well, how are
Speaker 1: you not giving that? Like that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: Your priorities are all very exactly. I mean, And when
Speaker 1: you go to the beach, you'll see both sexes of
Speaker 1: kids running around with like just no shirt on. I mean,
Speaker 1: is that sexy too? You do you find? Is there's
Speaker 1: something about a child's body that's sexy? And I think
Speaker 1: that I heard the story about a girl who just
Speaker 1: wore a dress for picture day and she got suspended
Speaker 1: because her shoulder was out, really because they thought the
Speaker 1: boys would you know, like, and what that says? I think?
Speaker 1: And tell me if you agreed. Esmond is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so the school officials are determining that the young boys
Speaker 1: around her can't handle a bare shoulder, and because of that,
Speaker 1: we need to make this girl change what she's wearing
Speaker 1: or go home or get suspended. And it's insulting to
Speaker 1: the boys, and it's also insulting to her because then
Speaker 1: the solution is, uh, okay, let's change what she's doing
Speaker 1: and not rectify any inappropriate behavior on another student's part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very much victim. The boy is attracted to someone's shoulder. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, just you know, you can you can recognize
Speaker 1: that in your head. You don't have to be disrespectful
Speaker 1: self control. I mean even if I don't know many
Speaker 1: boys who their number one favorite body part is shoulder,
Speaker 1: but if I were to come across that person, like
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you are attracted, like part of
Speaker 1: being a human being is to sometimes feel a sexual
Speaker 1: urge and not act on it. Yeah, which you know
Speaker 1: many Fictionally, if you ever look at the news, you
Speaker 1: see a lot of stories of people who cannot contain
Speaker 1: themselves or control themselves. And it's and it's like, it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting for Corita and I especially because the conversation
Speaker 1: around inappropriate what's inappropriate behavior and then just like hitting
Speaker 1: proud puberty and all that stuff. Like when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, that was not talked about in my household
Speaker 1: at all, and it was kind of I got the
Speaker 1: vibe for my parents that it was something inappropriate that
Speaker 1: we don't talk about. And I think as a result,
Speaker 1: then I would suppress that part of me because I
Speaker 1: thought it was bad or would make my parents feel weird,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to do that. Um but I remember,
Speaker 1: so You're in sixth grade and I had um uh,
Speaker 1: sex education in sixth grade. That's when I first had
Speaker 1: it was called family life. Did you did you already
Speaker 1: It's called health health Yeah, health class. That's a common
Speaker 1: talked about puberty. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, like
Speaker 1: what topics because every school district is very different, like
Speaker 1: nutrients and like how to brush your teeth, watch your hands.
Speaker 1: They went over the basics. I was like, actually, actually
Speaker 1: would have taught me now. I was like, they went
Speaker 1: over that a little earlier. I was like New York
Speaker 1: late on that my mom's dreamed when she was little
Speaker 1: to be was to be a fashion designer, but her
Speaker 1: parents went letter, Yeah, that's true. Tell him why. My
Speaker 1: parents were very much against me going to fashion school
Speaker 1: because one, they said that nobody ever makes it in
Speaker 1: that industry and I'll end up poor. And my parents
Speaker 1: are very much Roman Catholic conservatives, so they did not
Speaker 1: like the fact that I would be around, um, a
Speaker 1: lot of gay people is very right the irony, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it doesn't. So that's very I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought this not because so, how is your relationship with
Speaker 1: with your grandparents? Then? Oh, both my parents are did okay?
Speaker 1: Were they? Did they pass away before Desmond was born
Speaker 1: or no, was there a time when Desmond showed his
Speaker 1: interest in drag when they were right, they never had
Speaker 1: contact with him. Um, they had become so disapproving of
Speaker 1: my lifestyle that I decided I really didn't need to
Speaker 1: talk to people who were going to cause me that
Speaker 1: my grief in my life. But wait, you didn't go
Speaker 1: to fashion school, so why were they disappointed? What what was? Well,
Speaker 1: Desmond has an older sister, and the fact that I
Speaker 1: had a child out of wood luck, Oh my good
Speaker 1: now wow? And that and well, good, good on you
Speaker 1: for understanding that your your expectations of me are completely
Speaker 1: inappropriate because nothing I'm doing is bad. Like a lot
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people, especially when when
Speaker 1: religion is involved, there's a lot. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: guilt based and I know religion can do amazing things
Speaker 1: for people, but it's really hard for me to wrap
Speaker 1: my head around supporting any type of religion that is
Speaker 1: that that that would not include a group of people
Speaker 1: for something as simple as who they choose to love
Speaker 1: as is the least like Jesus would be so annoyed
Speaker 1: if he knew that was happening. I feel exactly, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a pretty sewer. I mean, the extent of
Speaker 1: it was that we had an uncle, my mother's brother,
Speaker 1: who had AIDS in the nineties, and when he would
Speaker 1: come to visit, they would actually throw away the plates.
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about we're talking about like, you know,
Speaker 1: regular plates and that disposable plates exactly, glasses. It was
Speaker 1: just really cruel, and so I knew that if I
Speaker 1: was displeasing them, I would end up in that sort
Speaker 1: of category. And I just wasn't going to live like that,
Speaker 1: constantly trying to please someone that I can't please. Wow. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's incredible that you had there the self esteem to
Speaker 1: do that, because so many people cave under that, especially
Speaker 1: when it's your parents. Because you learn from your parents,
Speaker 1: you learn how to that's your first example of how
Speaker 1: to act, how to interact, how to behave manners, all
Speaker 1: of those things. So was there a moment? Was that
Speaker 1: the moment when you you saw how they treated your uncle,
Speaker 1: where you you really understood that I'm going to have
Speaker 1: to disassociate myself. It wasn't ntil they started coming at
Speaker 1: me because I was having a child out of wedlock,
Speaker 1: because I didn't choose to marry my daughters. H you know, father,
Speaker 1: because I just didn't think it was going to be
Speaker 1: a long term thing. It just wasn't gonna work out.
Speaker 1: And uh, but thinking back to the way my parents acted,
Speaker 1: it made me realize that when a lot of these
Speaker 1: people out there say I'm brainwashing Desmond, my parents were
Speaker 1: very strict on me and I have not. I mean,
Speaker 1: they weren't able to brainwash me. Obviously. I came up
Speaker 1: with my own views along the way. So I don't
Speaker 1: think it's possible through influence and what your interests are,
Speaker 1: to brainwash some and into doing something. Otherwise, I'd be
Speaker 1: seeing here being a conservative Catholic as well, and that
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a fun path. No, And so how
Speaker 1: did you choose? What? Can I ask? How old you
Speaker 1: were when you had your first your first child? I
Speaker 1: was twenty two, okay, so twenty two. And then how
Speaker 1: did you Did you have like an idea of how
Speaker 1: you're going to raise her, like a plan or did
Speaker 1: you kind of go along the same path as you
Speaker 1: did with Desmond, were like I'm going to let her
Speaker 1: choose kind of what she wants to do, or I
Speaker 1: did I was a single parent for a long time.
Speaker 1: I know that. A lot of people shame single parents,
Speaker 1: but I think it was just really uh, it was
Speaker 1: hard work. I worked two jobs and managed to keep
Speaker 1: food on the table and raise her um. She was
Speaker 1: raised a little bit differently because with Desmond, I'm a
Speaker 1: stay at home mom, so he gets more attention. With her.
Speaker 1: I was working two jobs, so I wasn't there as
Speaker 1: much as I am with Desmond. She worked at Disneyland.
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, her night shift. It was very creepy
Speaker 1: overnight shifts. Yes, to restock the store so in the
Speaker 1: morning they're ready for the tourists. Why was it creepy ghosts? No,
Speaker 1: nobody's like all the lights are off and there's nobody,
Speaker 1: no tourists, nothing parks in the dark when everything is off.
Speaker 1: I've been in one like Sesame place. It was they
Speaker 1: are very scary scary. Yes, so the staff staff employees
Speaker 1: was there what? Oh, of course there was um so,
Speaker 1: but yes. I also encouraged her to, you know, follow
Speaker 1: her interests. And for a long time she would have
Speaker 1: crazy hair douse or she'd be into this or that.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really important because you can't really
Speaker 1: just make a mini me version of yourself. You need
Speaker 1: to let someone develop their own taste and their own
Speaker 1: ideas and as long as they're not hurting themselves or
Speaker 1: anybody else, why not, Yeah, because then you're gonna rap,
Speaker 1: You're gonna You're going to put a human out into
Speaker 1: the world who's confident, has their own ideas and can
Speaker 1: think independently. And we need more of that because as
Speaker 1: are rarer. Yes, Um, I do you mind if we
Speaker 1: go back to the subject. I'm just curious. But if
Speaker 1: you don't feel comfortable talking about if it's like a
Speaker 1: weird just let me know. But the health class, because
Speaker 1: curriculums are so different in from school district to school district,
Speaker 1: where you are in the country, what school you go to? Um?
Speaker 1: What other topics did they cover in health class? And
Speaker 1: how did you did you want to hear about it?
Speaker 1: Where you like no, no, no, no, no, I don't
Speaker 1: care because I kind of had that attitude when I
Speaker 1: took health class in sixth grade. I just do my
Speaker 1: note and try to get a good grade so I
Speaker 1: can go into the next grade. What other topics did
Speaker 1: they cover? Uh? Like emotions? Oh? Really? Yeah? Like that's
Speaker 1: like physical health, like unbullying, So like emotions, you mean
Speaker 1: like mental health, like if you feel sad kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, that's really good to hear. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if they've gotten into the nitty gritty of sex education. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's where I was getting at it. Yeah, it comes
Speaker 1: so late. Um did they talk about anything? Did they
Speaker 1: talk about I mean, did they get into things like,
Speaker 1: you know, heterosexuality, because I know for like my health class. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was they were only talking about heterosexuality. Like there
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't even kind of an option on the
Speaker 1: on the table to be gay or to be trans.
Speaker 1: Is that something that's ever discussed in the school. No, No, No,
Speaker 1: I don't think they've ever evolved that curriculum. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's certain things like my health class, Um, they
Speaker 1: would cover contraception and stuff, but they would only they
Speaker 1: would just do it was a very it was from
Speaker 1: a very male point of view. It's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: we make we make all the kids learn about the
Speaker 1: male sexuality a little more. And it is that that
Speaker 1: was later on in life I realized that frustrating. That was, Um,
Speaker 1: have you had um a sex talk with with Desmond?
Speaker 1: Have you? Or is that my my parents? My mom
Speaker 1: tried to when I was ten years old, and I
Speaker 1: ran away. Uh no, guess we have no when we
Speaker 1: can talk about this with Mom said, if you don't,
Speaker 1: but we don't want to make that's completely understandable. I
Speaker 1: dodged that subject like the plague when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: because I did not want to talk about I don't
Speaker 1: know why, though. I guess I was embarrassed, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't pinpoint why I was embarrassed. Um, but do you
Speaker 1: feel that do you feel like a little like embarrassed
Speaker 1: or shy or something when that when that subject comes up,
Speaker 1: either in school or with your parents. I'm gonna take
Speaker 1: the ducking as a yeah, that's okay, that's okay. I
Speaker 1: felt the same way. I felt the exact same way. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean he answers the same kind of questions. I
Speaker 1: mean he asked the same kind of questions that other
Speaker 1: kids would ask. We have to paarakeets a male and
Speaker 1: a female who are constantly mating, and uh, he asked questions,
Speaker 1: you know, what is what are they doing? How does
Speaker 1: how do they make the egg? What comes out of
Speaker 1: the mail, like how does it work? And so I
Speaker 1: answered those questions, you know, factually, and he also ask
Speaker 1: questions about puberty, what's going to happen to his body? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, things like that so very appropriate for his age. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it well yeah, because you're what at what age
Speaker 1: does a child experience It's eleven or twelve? Right, Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's the start of it. Yeah, And how
Speaker 1: do you do you have any opinions on puberty? Desmond
Speaker 1: Or is just kind of neutral about it. I'm not
Speaker 1: really sure, you know, I don't. I don't have a
Speaker 1: big mustache. Well that, luckily you can prevent if you
Speaker 1: get a razor and shave it. Just turn it off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it depends. Um. And so, uh do you know any
Speaker 1: other do you you identify as gay? Is that correct? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then when when did you When did you have
Speaker 1: these feelings? Because I know, like a lot of my
Speaker 1: gay friends are like, oh, I knew when I was
Speaker 1: three years old. I knew every since I was put
Speaker 1: on the surf, And like, what is that? What is
Speaker 1: being gay mean to you? Because like I think people think,
Speaker 1: like you know, they're only thinking about it as like
Speaker 1: as like a sexual thing. But I feel like it's
Speaker 1: I feel like it's more than that. I'm not gay
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure, so that's for you to answer.
Speaker 1: But from what I've talked about with my friends, or
Speaker 1: did you was that a conversation that you had with
Speaker 1: your mom? Or did you? Guys came out to my
Speaker 1: mom when I was nine and what made you nine?
Speaker 1: And do you remember? Do you remember that conversation? You don't?
Speaker 1: Do you? I do? He just came and told me
Speaker 1: that he thought he was gay. But it wasn't much
Speaker 1: of a surprise to me because um and not because
Speaker 1: of his interesting because he would be coming home and
Speaker 1: like sad. But I don't want to feel uncomfortable? Does me?
Speaker 1: But you know that's that's likely because that's just as
Speaker 1: you said, that's who I forgot, your whole thing. But
Speaker 1: that's part of who you are and you're fierce. How
Speaker 1: does that make you feel? Though? Like how when you're
Speaker 1: like talking about that, is that what does that bring up?
Speaker 1: You get uncomfortable? Do you feel anxious? Do you feel glad?
Speaker 1: Said shy Shy? And I think that's a great reaction
Speaker 1: because I think for any eleven year old, whether you're heterosexual, homosexual,
Speaker 1: trans anything, it's like the same reaction. And there's something
Speaker 1: really nice about that because people try to always, like,
Speaker 1: you know, separate being gay from being straight, as if
Speaker 1: they are so different. But the like, the life experience,
Speaker 1: the feelings that you feel, the shyness that you feel,
Speaker 1: no matter who you're having a crush on, is very
Speaker 1: much the same. It's part of being a human person too.
Speaker 1: Um that usually trans, Uh, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people think like that. Drag queens are like, like, want
Speaker 1: to be trans exactly. I'm glad you brought that up
Speaker 1: because that's something I want to discuss a lot of
Speaker 1: people I think do, and especially in UM articles and
Speaker 1: and like protests or whatever I've been reading about you.
Speaker 1: It seems to me people are confusing being a drag
Speaker 1: kid with being a trans kid. Can you speak a
Speaker 1: little bit about that and maybe the difference between being
Speaker 1: trans and being a drag kid? Uh? Well, and you're
Speaker 1: doing drag, You just dressing up in your trance, Um,
Speaker 1: however you think of it, there's nothing wrong. It's like,
Speaker 1: no one's gonna attack you on here, don't worry me,
Speaker 1: help me out. Well, yeah, when you're trans, you just
Speaker 1: you feel inside that you were born the wrong sex,
Speaker 1: the wrong gender, that you were signed the wrong gender
Speaker 1: at birth. Yeah, so it's more it seems to me
Speaker 1: like we were more like, Oh no, I should be
Speaker 1: living my life as not the gender that I was
Speaker 1: born as, how people identify me as, or how my
Speaker 1: body would say to anybody. I mean, there are drag
Speaker 1: queens that are trans like so, but you are just
Speaker 1: You're just a boy who sometimes likes to dress as
Speaker 1: a girl. Is that accurate? Okay? Perfect? Do you know
Speaker 1: any other kids your age who are trans or gay
Speaker 1: or who openly talk about that kind of thing? Ah? Yes,
Speaker 1: a lot, but not at my school. And where do
Speaker 1: you meet these other kids? Instagram? Okay, so do you
Speaker 1: reach out to them? Do they reach out to you?
Speaker 1: They usually reach out to me? And what kinds of
Speaker 1: things do they reach out to you for? Oh, we
Speaker 1: love you so much and um my mom, Me and
Speaker 1: my mom we look at the thing and we say
Speaker 1: thank you so much, like it's giving them kind of
Speaker 1: it's you know, because I think we talk a lot
Speaker 1: in media today about representation, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: we think about that more as like, you know, racially,
Speaker 1: but people forget that being a drag hit, being trans,
Speaker 1: that's also part of representation and it makes you feel
Speaker 1: less weird. For being exactly who you are. Would you
Speaker 1: agree with that? Yeah? Yeah? Uh do you see do
Speaker 1: you watch programs with them or like TV shows or
Speaker 1: movies with you know, young people dressing in drag or yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah all the time. Is there anything that you would
Speaker 1: recommend UM to some young listeners out there that they
Speaker 1: can watch that would help maybe if they're maybe if
Speaker 1: they kinky boots, that a great recommendation and it's really
Speaker 1: good And do you feel I would imagine that a
Speaker 1: lot of kids, if they grew up in a different
Speaker 1: you know, a conservative part of the country, UM, which
Speaker 1: a lot of the country is UM and maybe they
Speaker 1: have the desire and they get excited about the idea
Speaker 1: of like I want to put on a dress and
Speaker 1: like do a number and dance, and they don't maybe
Speaker 1: they can't say oh this is dragged, but they want
Speaker 1: to do that, but the people around them don't want
Speaker 1: to UM encourage that at all. I would imagine they
Speaker 1: would look at it as a role model, UM, as
Speaker 1: somebody that helps them understand that it's not weird, it's
Speaker 1: okay to be yourself and it's better, you're better off
Speaker 1: being yourself. And so if somebody doesn't like what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: that's their problem. Do you feel like, um, do you
Speaker 1: feel like a role model? I feel like a role
Speaker 1: model to a lot of people, and it feels very
Speaker 1: nice because, uh I think being a role model is
Speaker 1: very uh good because you're inspiring other people and help
Speaker 1: me m I mean I've got messages like I was
Speaker 1: thinking I was going to commit suicide, but then I
Speaker 1: saw you and in reject I kind of save their lives.
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel? That makes me feel
Speaker 1: very great and like a hero. Yeah. Do you ever
Speaker 1: feel um any responsibility as as a role model to
Speaker 1: a lot of young kids and adults? I'm sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a big responsibility. So are there
Speaker 1: certain things that you do or don't do to make
Speaker 1: sure that you continue to be a good role model? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I don't do like weird poses or appropriate for
Speaker 1: my like a kid, my age, and actually my dresses
Speaker 1: and outfits are always appropriate. And was that a conversation
Speaker 1: that you have with your mom, Like were there any
Speaker 1: dance moves or things you wanted to wear that you
Speaker 1: were like, oh, this is just what I want to
Speaker 1: wear and then your mom kind of did you have
Speaker 1: that kind of conversation. I don't even know if we
Speaker 1: had a conversation. He's just always been very insistent on
Speaker 1: being kid appropriate, and he's even kind of at times
Speaker 1: poop poop. Uh. When he sees other drag kids that
Speaker 1: are maybe wearing something a little bit too short, like
Speaker 1: too short of a skirt, or acting in a way
Speaker 1: that's too sassy, he kind of feels like that's not
Speaker 1: kid appropriate and like give the jacket community a bad reputation. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: because because you know a lot the haters, they'll jump
Speaker 1: on anything they possibly can. So how do you decide
Speaker 1: what's kid appropriate and what's not. If it looks okay,
Speaker 1: then it's appropriate. But if it doesn't look okay and
Speaker 1: there's like gives it a weird feeling or yeah, you
Speaker 1: just have intuition about it. Yeah, so you said, uh,
Speaker 1: where are these other drag kids performing? Like, is are
Speaker 1: there drag kid only shows? Because I've I mean i've
Speaker 1: never besides you on the internet, I've never seen a
Speaker 1: drag kid perform. I've only seen drag kings and drag queens. Um,
Speaker 1: So where where does one find a kid appropriate drag show? Well?
Speaker 1: I don't think us any of those yet. But um,
Speaker 1: there's drafteen story. All right, what is it? Jack queen story?
Speaker 1: Our dra queen story. I heard about that. It's where
Speaker 1: drag queens read books to children. Correct, because of course
Speaker 1: I read an article. But the article was based on
Speaker 1: people getting mad about that, So that's how I know
Speaker 1: about it. I didn't you see that thing about the
Speaker 1: drac Queen Story Hour? Uh dude with the gun? Oh yes,
Speaker 1: in Texas, this guy went to drag Queen Story Hour
Speaker 1: with a gun. Well, the library tell him what they
Speaker 1: did for like, and prior to that, he'd gotten kicked
Speaker 1: out of the library because he was video taping the
Speaker 1: children and he didn't get charged for anything. And that's
Speaker 1: really creepy. That's very creepy. Okay, So he basically he's
Speaker 1: trying to deflect attention from his own problems onto drag
Speaker 1: queens were just trying to read some kids some mean books.
Speaker 1: It's not like like the drag queens like forced the
Speaker 1: kids to come. It's the parents decision if want to
Speaker 1: come and to bring their children into participate in that.
Speaker 1: Let's say my mom doesn't want me to go, then
Speaker 1: then they're not going. But if you want to go
Speaker 1: and go and it's like all the kids doesn't. If
Speaker 1: they say no, I don't want to go, then as
Speaker 1: their decision. Um. One question I'm really curious about if
Speaker 1: you've had to talk like I don't. My mom kind
Speaker 1: of had this talk with me when I was maybe
Speaker 1: five about just stranger danger right, and how to recognize
Speaker 1: if an adult is being inappropriate or or is being
Speaker 1: odd and what to do. Have you have you had
Speaker 1: that conversation with Desmond and what what if so, what
Speaker 1: did you say to look out for if anything? Oh,
Speaker 1: we've had that conversation for sure. Um. And we've watched
Speaker 1: several documentaries too about kids that have been kidnapped. Um,
Speaker 1: what to look out for? I just told my mom,
Speaker 1: I do this job, but I'm scared. So, oh don't fall.
Speaker 1: You have great correstaurants, Desmond. Um, that's something no one
Speaker 1: else could see, but it was it was dressed. Um.
Speaker 1: So I also heard that you founded a a drag
Speaker 1: house for jackets. Yes, h us like like House of Gaga. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: it's for drag kids. Um and um it's uh how
Speaker 1: a would it? Goodness? It's basically like a social media
Speaker 1: platform for kids to jackets, like chat. We were going
Speaker 1: to do it on Facebook. But then, um, we had
Speaker 1: a math hate attack in October I think it was December. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what happened? We had a mass hate attack a
Speaker 1: Facebook page. What happened? What's a mass hate attack? It's
Speaker 1: where hate groups will say, hey, let's go attack this
Speaker 1: kid's page and they'll go on there a hundreds literally
Speaker 1: hundreds of nasty comments, bad reviews, nasty the messages. It's
Speaker 1: really ugly. What's the nature? Just like bullying or like
Speaker 1: life threatening or they do they'll say things like kill
Speaker 1: it with fire. They want to put a millstone around
Speaker 1: my neck and throw me in the sea. Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've heard everything, now I should go to jail. Ridiculous, straight,
Speaker 1: I mean that's I mean, that's really violent. And I
Speaker 1: don't know how anyone could think that dressing and drag
Speaker 1: is worse than my mom. Actually got like, uh like
Speaker 1: three days off Facebook for no reason. I did they
Speaker 1: think I was going to ask you to get bumped
Speaker 1: off too. They were reporting photos for different things, even
Speaker 1: though they were like, we had pictures of him just
Speaker 1: in his regular outfits, and they would poured him for
Speaker 1: nudity and that ended up getting us kicked off for
Speaker 1: days because Facebook's algorithms don't actually check to see what
Speaker 1: you come in, and if you get so many strikes,
Speaker 1: they will remove it, and then after you get so
Speaker 1: many more strikes, they bump you off for twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: and then the next time it's for three days. Man,
Speaker 1: you think they'd have enough money to hire people to
Speaker 1: actually look in it, actual people revenue. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a huge problem on social media because they hired
Speaker 1: these computers to scan the complaints, but they're not catching
Speaker 1: the worst of the bullies. Yeah. Well, it's very interesting
Speaker 1: because I was talking about my my best friend is gay.
Speaker 1: He's a therapist, gay man therapist. Um, and we're kind
Speaker 1: of having a conversation yesterday because I knew you were
Speaker 1: going to come come in, and uh, it was kind
Speaker 1: of about why people people over straight people especially seemed
Speaker 1: to over sexualize the gay community. And there's something particularly
Speaker 1: upsetting to a lot of people about specifically a boy
Speaker 1: dressing as a girl in a way that people do
Speaker 1: not get upset even about a girl dressing as a boy. Um.
Speaker 1: And uh, do you have people talk said to you,
Speaker 1: like anything negative in person about dressing as a girl. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like there was like one net like, uh was it?
Speaker 1: I can't remember? Are you talking about the guy that
Speaker 1: followed us down the street? Followed you and dad down
Speaker 1: the street? Yeah? Yeah, an adult followed us, not us,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say, has followed Desmond and his dad down
Speaker 1: the street? Uh, saying what a bad parents we were
Speaker 1: and calling Dosmont a faggot? Wow? Oh my god? Wow?
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel? Desmond? When that was happening,
Speaker 1: I was just like, sorry, I'm not as fierce as you. Yeah, sometimes, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I bet I thought that was scary for your dad.
Speaker 1: He was just yelling at him. Nice slop him back,
Speaker 1: you got it? Like sometimes parents yell when they actually
Speaker 1: are scared in their hearts, you know, and when when
Speaker 1: a person acts like that. Because I'm I'm an adult
Speaker 1: woman who's been on the internet and stuff, so you know,
Speaker 1: we've gotten a lot of fun messages from strangers, and
Speaker 1: we haven't had so much stuff said to our face.
Speaker 1: But you know, when you get all this this, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're made aware that there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: in this world that will just hate right and be
Speaker 1: cruel and unkind and and bully. Do you how what
Speaker 1: do you think of that? Like do you, because in
Speaker 1: my head, it took me a while to not be
Speaker 1: hurt by that and also come to the conclusion that there,
Speaker 1: I this is my personal opinion on it. They're they're
Speaker 1: probably hurting on the inside, and that's why, like I
Speaker 1: kind of have to figure out the logic to it,
Speaker 1: because I don't understand it, like most bullies have like
Speaker 1: they're like, um, like they have like like maybe their
Speaker 1: parents are fighting all the time, or maybe the bullies
Speaker 1: are getting bullied. Yeah, well yeah, that's a lot. It
Speaker 1: seems like that happens a lot. Do you ever know,
Speaker 1: do you ever witness bullying going on in your school
Speaker 1: or just in the real world like that not directly
Speaker 1: to you, but just that happens. And and do you
Speaker 1: feel the desire to say up in or you just
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, certain times it's just not safe
Speaker 1: to do that. But have you ever stepped in and
Speaker 1: told a kid to stop bullying somebody else? Uh? Yes,
Speaker 1: but if it's an adult, no, Yeah, that's probably wise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably good. What do you say to the kid, hey,
Speaker 1: don't do that? When do you like, if you did that,
Speaker 1: do you and then what did you remember what they
Speaker 1: said back? To you. Ah, did it make them stop bullying?
Speaker 1: Or did it irritate them? It did so you're kind
Speaker 1: of like a modern day superhero too. You wear a lot? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And what do you what are your what's next for you? Like?
Speaker 1: What do you kid? People get asked kids this question
Speaker 1: all the time? What do you want to be when
Speaker 1: you grow up? Is drag something you want to do
Speaker 1: professionally for money as a career for a living Ah,
Speaker 1: forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and
Speaker 1: ever and ever very long? So so for a while? Yeah? Ever, okay, okay?
Speaker 1: And do you you want to and you've you've started
Speaker 1: organizations and stuff too, is there do you have any ideas,
Speaker 1: um that you want to try and catapult in your future, like, um,
Speaker 1: like a training center or I don't know anything like that.
Speaker 1: He just actually finished a major project. Well, my book
Speaker 1: called be Amazing is about the past fifty years of
Speaker 1: the lgbt Q plus culture. In the next fifty years,
Speaker 1: um and beyond, people can express themselves more freely. Is
Speaker 1: a children's book. Yes, it's for Macmillian Children's Publishing Group.
Speaker 1: And I didn't I didn't know if you want me
Speaker 1: to say it they're going to be making the official
Speaker 1: announcement in a few days. He's finished writing it, submitted.
Speaker 1: Was that your idea to write a book? Yes? And
Speaker 1: what were you hoping? Um? What do you hope readers
Speaker 1: will gain from this book? Like? Why what made you go?
Speaker 1: I want to write a book. I want them to
Speaker 1: know about the past fifty years of how hard it
Speaker 1: was for people to express themselves if they were like LGBTQ.
Speaker 1: And do you was there ever a moment when do
Speaker 1: you remember a time when you first realized, oh, not
Speaker 1: everybody can be themselves for whatever reason? So like the
Speaker 1: gay community was not only not accepted, but berated and
Speaker 1: abused and bullied and assaulted. Um do you remember, yeah,
Speaker 1: but when you first realized that? Um? What? What was
Speaker 1: what was going on in your head? Because I remember
Speaker 1: when I first realized, oh, the world can be cruel,
Speaker 1: Like that was a really crazy moment for me as
Speaker 1: a kid. I was just like, I guess that's life
Speaker 1: wore indeed? Um, No, indeed, do you when? Because I
Speaker 1: just really want to like clear it up and hear
Speaker 1: it in your own words, because I try to always
Speaker 1: like give even though this is obviously like a left
Speaker 1: leaning podcast. I always want to get like a full
Speaker 1: fair interview. My single will probably be coming out soon.
Speaker 1: You're a singer too. Uh yeah, it's called We Are
Speaker 1: All Amazing. You're the best. You can sing too? You
Speaker 1: would that. I'll sing it a little part Jacket Jagonese,
Speaker 1: Fashion Evangelista, Sat Sante The world is your room way? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope any of you didn't lose your ear drums.
Speaker 1: That was great. I didn't have headphones on, so it
Speaker 1: didn't matter to me. Thank you busted mind you busted
Speaker 1: your own ear dramas that's not good. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it sounded great for anyone who's interested in purchasing it.
Speaker 1: And that song sounds incredible and I'm excited. When is
Speaker 1: it coming out? Uh, we're trying to release release it
Speaker 1: before Pride. Yeah? Oh nice? And is it it's your
Speaker 1: song alone? Does anyone sing with you on the track?
Speaker 1: It's just me, just you perfect? Did you just do
Speaker 1: you love singing? Was that at your idea to someone
Speaker 1: approach you and say this kid's gonna have a song.
Speaker 1: It was my idea and my management PEG Uh your
Speaker 1: management company? Yeah, okay, PG Management. They helped you develop
Speaker 1: a bit and make it a reality because they know
Speaker 1: that you're serious about drag. Yeah, serious, yes you are,
Speaker 1: and I love it. So I just kind of want
Speaker 1: to like, yeah, I just want to make sure and
Speaker 1: talk about everything. So like when you bring Desmond to
Speaker 1: a gig or something, you're you're your husband is there
Speaker 1: the whole time. I'm assuming definitely both my husband and
Speaker 1: I go to supervise him. Usually my husband will stay
Speaker 1: in the audience and I'll stay backstage, so it's double
Speaker 1: so two parents are there exactly to see and if
Speaker 1: anything inappropriate happened at all, I mean, we would share
Speaker 1: it down immediately. So and he's usually just backstage and
Speaker 1: on the stage, he doesn't Because of the regulations, it
Speaker 1: isn't illegal for kids to be in venues that serve
Speaker 1: alcohol in New York City. Um, I have seen it
Speaker 1: here all the time, kids everywhere. As a comedy clubs,
Speaker 1: we have to bet that's at the enter and basically
Speaker 1: bars with the stage. So but when it comes to
Speaker 1: the kids performing, they have to be in perform and
Speaker 1: out right away. They're not ever allowed into the bar area.
Speaker 1: And we wouldn't have him in the bar area to
Speaker 1: begin with, and there's no purpose to that. Um. But
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to criticize us because oh,
Speaker 1: he was dancing in the gay bar, or you know,
Speaker 1: they have the wrong idea about it. I think it's
Speaker 1: like they all building that pop which is definitely not true.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was like a huge misconception. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it still is, but obviously but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know where the heck people got that those
Speaker 1: are not Well. It's kind of funny because historically, up
Speaker 1: until the nineteen fifties, children's clothing was very much a
Speaker 1: gender neutral uh even boys would wear dresses FDR war dresses.
Speaker 1: This child and color color and when he did, and
Speaker 1: up until the nineteen fifties, when you start having these
Speaker 1: uh p s a s come out. There's one in
Speaker 1: particular where little Timmy, a man rolls up in his
Speaker 1: car and invites him to go fishing, and then eventually
Speaker 1: gets him a little pat on the butt and uh
Speaker 1: pat on the back, and then they I can't remember
Speaker 1: what it was, it was the gay pat, but you know,
Speaker 1: and and then they go on to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: this fellow is sick and he has gay urges, and
Speaker 1: they used homosexual urges, and that's why he wants to
Speaker 1: go after children. So you start having this propaganda coming
Speaker 1: out in the nineties fifties, and then also the government
Speaker 1: actually if you read up about it, had a campaign
Speaker 1: to kind of associate the homosexuals with the pedophile community. Um,
Speaker 1: and this is a big problem throughout history, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that the gay community has ever been able
Speaker 1: to shake that association. And it's all government induced and
Speaker 1: shoved up into people's head. It's so easy to spread
Speaker 1: fear most pedophiles are straight men. You are absolutely correct,
Speaker 1: and it makes me very sad that I love in
Speaker 1: your old Number one has to school people in this
Speaker 1: and number two even has to has to know, like
Speaker 1: has to know facts like that. That's so crazy to
Speaker 1: defend just you know, kind of who you are, because yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like that get you know, we're in the
Speaker 1: business of I guess I can say it's in front
Speaker 1: of you like slut shaming. And so often in a
Speaker 1: similar way that people uh intertwine homosexuality and pedophilia, which
Speaker 1: are two very very different things. Um and pedophilia is
Speaker 1: something that does need to be talked about, but has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with drag whatsoever. I would categorize that
Speaker 1: with mental illness. Uh. And you know again that's because
Speaker 1: it's misunderstood and not talked about. It is why we
Speaker 1: have a lot of talking you know, problems in documentaries
Speaker 1: coming out of documentary days and with sluch shaming. It's
Speaker 1: like people often intertwine um being a sexually open woman
Speaker 1: with being immoral and again like like, that's two things
Speaker 1: that you're intertwining that are absolutely different. Have you ever
Speaker 1: had um an experience either at a show when you
Speaker 1: and your husband were there with Desmond or where you
Speaker 1: had to step in or where somebody you were like
Speaker 1: are you being inappropriate where you actually had to take action. No,
Speaker 1: never in person. There's been people online that have been
Speaker 1: a little bit weird and you can tell that they're
Speaker 1: weird and you just automatically block and delete them and
Speaker 1: just get them out of your life. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: the way that they talk. They might say, oh, you're
Speaker 1: such a cute little boy, you know, and exactly, and
Speaker 1: they're not saying with a tone. As the conversation goes
Speaker 1: on or whatever they're presenting to us, the tone of it,
Speaker 1: you can automatically tell it's inappropriate. Um. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one thing to say Desmond's handsome. It's another thing to go, oh,
Speaker 1: he's so cute and be a man. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: and you kind of man wants to be your friend
Speaker 1: from like following you on Instagram. You filter, You're the
Speaker 1: filter before? Doesmon sees anything correct? Absolutely? Great? Great? Great?
Speaker 1: And um yeah, I mean there's some other thing. I
Speaker 1: did want to talk your mom about the tipping, but
Speaker 1: if you don't want to be here for that, I
Speaker 1: wanted to did you have anything to say before we
Speaker 1: kind of talked to me your mom privately? Be yourself always.
Speaker 1: Anyone saysn't pay to hat, No, Mike, because I'll never
Speaker 1: be a thirst as you and I. And if we
Speaker 1: want to learn more about you, where can we do that? Ah?
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Instagram at Desmond is amazing,
Speaker 1: Desmond is amazing on Facebook, YouTube, and Desmond underscore it
Speaker 1: doesn't underscore amazing on Snapchat and Twitter. And now I
Speaker 1: have I have coloring books you like coloring color is
Speaker 1: like the only appropriate one is? I have a coloring
Speaker 1: book of animals farting, but like it's kind of fun,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But if you want to
Speaker 1: go up, I can set you up in the loft
Speaker 1: if you want to color or in there, I can
Speaker 1: close your door? Is that? Okay? Oh? The Child Services?
Speaker 1: So what happened is this YouTuber anname Renee has been
Speaker 1: harassing us for two weeks and her followers have been
Speaker 1: harassing us for two week. She made these videos with
Speaker 1: these outrageous claims that he's drugged and this and that
Speaker 1: and the other, sexualized in all these things. Uh, and
Speaker 1: so her fallow has been harassing us and she kind
Speaker 1: of just backed us into a corner because she actually
Speaker 1: bragged online that she had called a CS and the
Speaker 1: first time she called, they didn't have that she couldn't
Speaker 1: give enough information for them to make a report. So
Speaker 1: she admits in a post on her face on her
Speaker 1: YouTube channel that she uh cyber stopped us until she
Speaker 1: was able to gather enough of their personal information to
Speaker 1: make a report. Okay, And what is I don't almost
Speaker 1: got a lot of time on their becase and this
Speaker 1: is a famous YouTuber, they're not like Okay, so they
Speaker 1: have and an influencer, So I'm confused. And what is
Speaker 1: what is her YouTube page about? Her YouTube page is
Speaker 1: basically reading books, her doing just videos of nothing but hate.
Speaker 1: She hates women, She hates trans community. She hates fat people,
Speaker 1: she hates she hates gay men. How does this person hope?
Speaker 1: You have no idea? Because she doesn't ever show her face,
Speaker 1: Oh so she can be a convenient that's because she does,
Speaker 1: because she hates herself exactly. But that's a real cop out. Cool,
Speaker 1: but stopped, you know, because it's like the whole hating
Speaker 1: herself and stuff that helps me understand it. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's not an excuse. You're you're a grown woman. What
Speaker 1: are you doing on the flip side. I guess she
Speaker 1: really does hate, you know, because otherwise she would be
Speaker 1: trying to get fame off of these video, right she do?
Speaker 1: You know, there's genuine hate in her heart and for that,
Speaker 1: hats off to you exactly. She's made two videos about
Speaker 1: her family, both about your family, about our family, about
Speaker 1: death when very slanders. Her claims are unsubstantiated, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, nothing to back it up, so exactly,
Speaker 1: and she challenges she said it, if you have nothing
Speaker 1: to hide, prove it. So we proved it. We posted
Speaker 1: the actual letters from A C. S. So that they
Speaker 1: investigated us thoroughly and there's no abuse, and we let
Speaker 1: people now we've also been investigated by the New York
Speaker 1: City Police Department for Child Advocacy, the Center for Missing
Speaker 1: and Exploited Children and uh, and what a waste of
Speaker 1: that Agency's My best friend worked for a CS and
Speaker 1: she would you know, I've heard terror terrible stories. But
Speaker 1: it's like these people are overworked and they like city workers,
Speaker 1: a lot of times they don't get paid affair salary.
Speaker 1: And it's like, wow, so you're gonna waste their time
Speaker 1: because you hate yourself and you need to prove to
Speaker 1: the world that this family is abusing their child when
Speaker 1: the exactly we had announced visits, unannounced visits to our home,
Speaker 1: to his school almost daily basis at first, and that
Speaker 1: seems a lot more disruptive than just you know, doing
Speaker 1: drag exactly. Yeah, because of the number of reports that
Speaker 1: were called in, because these people encourage their followers to
Speaker 1: also report he's as weapon. Basically, Uh, our case went
Speaker 1: all the way to the Governor's office, So we were
Speaker 1: kind of investigated more closely than any case they've done before. Okay,
Speaker 1: And like, uh, and what else besides visits does an
Speaker 1: investigation You have to provide materials or they basically looked
Speaker 1: at every single thing that doesn't has ever done. Every
Speaker 1: video on his page of his performances, every interview he's done,
Speaker 1: every photo, everything, every allegation they checked into, they would
Speaker 1: do um. They would do interviews with him away from us,
Speaker 1: you know, so that you know, because a lot of
Speaker 1: times abused children won't say things in front of it,
Speaker 1: so they would do a lot of interviews without us around.
Speaker 1: They would interview him at school, like actually take him
Speaker 1: out of his class. And it's great stick go down
Speaker 1: throughout this whole process, because I'm sure it's stressful. It is.
Speaker 1: And he just started at middle school that's a new school,
Speaker 1: and now and he's a public figure. Kids know him
Speaker 1: at his school and now he's being pulled out a
Speaker 1: class but the police department by a c. S. It's
Speaker 1: terribly embarrassing for him. Yeah, so this is still going on, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'm just I'm confusing, and certainly you know pageantry.
Speaker 1: You know, little girls, mostly little girls are in pageants
Speaker 1: all the time, and I've never I've never heard them
Speaker 1: being investigated for anything. I haven't either. In fact, I
Speaker 1: think it's glorified. Otherwise, we went to have shows like
Speaker 1: Tylers and Tears exactly boo boo. I mean they're they're
Speaker 1: feeding honey boo boo, mountain dew and red bull, which
Speaker 1: isn't even healthy for adults, right to amp her up. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's gives you diarrhea, it gives you something that's just Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really and I mean and and and people should
Speaker 1: be mad listening, you know, because I think it's like,
Speaker 1: you know what, why should be you get involved? But
Speaker 1: it's like all these people are getting involved who don't
Speaker 1: know your home life. And I don't know, because there
Speaker 1: has to be something more because they're just not I
Speaker 1: don't know that many people who are just from the
Speaker 1: goodness of their heart that interested in the welfare of
Speaker 1: a singular child, because there's a lot of children out
Speaker 1: there who are truly being abused and neglected, and so
Speaker 1: they're not our borders. Yeah, so there's something else going
Speaker 1: on here. Yeah, children at the borders. Very excellent point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, you know, I think it's because Desmond
Speaker 1: is a trailblazer. He you know, one of the first
Speaker 1: drag kids, if not the first drag kids that was
Speaker 1: as public as he was. I mean, he was a
Speaker 1: vour sensation. Four years ago. This is this is before
Speaker 1: we would see kids at Pride parades. We see him
Speaker 1: a lot now, but back then we didn't barely see
Speaker 1: any kids at all. So because he's a trailblazer, he's
Speaker 1: so well known, he has such a large social media
Speaker 1: presence that I think that anytime you're a trailblazer and
Speaker 1: doing something new, you're going to have a lot of
Speaker 1: criticism come along with that. Absolutely, And it was just
Speaker 1: been born in New York City. He was okay nice
Speaker 1: And there's so many parents, as you know, um who
Speaker 1: won't let their child be themselves and they just they
Speaker 1: they are. So I don't know what it is if
Speaker 1: if it's out of fear how they were raised. But
Speaker 1: then you're a person who was raised in a way
Speaker 1: and then you didn't fall for it, which is so amazing,
Speaker 1: like you really knew yourself and stuck to your values
Speaker 1: in your morals. But is there anything particular that you
Speaker 1: would say if there is a parent listening who is
Speaker 1: suppressing their child creatively or to say whatever it may
Speaker 1: be from just being themselves, like because it just seems
Speaker 1: like nothing and I know you know this for a fact,
Speaker 1: nothing good will come of it when you suppress a
Speaker 1: child from expressing any part of themselves. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Is there something that you would say to a parent
Speaker 1: who who feels that it's it's best, it's better off
Speaker 1: for their kid to to grow up in a more
Speaker 1: rigid environment. I think there's it's a twofold answer. One
Speaker 1: is that people so much want to uh, stay with
Speaker 1: what's familiar with them, so they try to create many
Speaker 1: versions of themselves. Um, we just spoke to some people
Speaker 1: from a very small town in Kansas, and they said
Speaker 1: they went to Olive Garden in Times Square because it
Speaker 1: was familiar to them, rather than in joining what New
Speaker 1: York has to offer. It was familiar to them. So
Speaker 1: that's one part of my answer. The second is, uh
Speaker 1: that a big part of it is that people are
Speaker 1: afraid what other people are going to think of them.
Speaker 1: So they're worried that if they let their kids go out.
Speaker 1: And this is a big problem with my parents, Like
Speaker 1: God forbid, I express myself in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: They would buy my outfits all the way until I
Speaker 1: had a job when I was sixteen. Uh is because
Speaker 1: they were afraid what the neighbors would think, what the
Speaker 1: people at church would think. Well, you know, what is
Speaker 1: their kid wearing that for? I think that's another big
Speaker 1: problem is that other people, or should say parents are
Speaker 1: just worried about what other people are going to think
Speaker 1: of them. And from what you were called growing up
Speaker 1: as a kid and your parents, your parents stayed together,
Speaker 1: they did because it's very un catholic. If they did,
Speaker 1: what was their relationship, like, do you remember affection toward
Speaker 1: each other? Were they happy? Were they joyful? I don't
Speaker 1: believe I ever saw any affection. They never saw kiss,
Speaker 1: maybe hug once in a while. Uh, But I think
Speaker 1: that's just their personalities. I don't think that they were
Speaker 1: just in any sort of conflict within the marriage. Were
Speaker 1: they happy or content people? I don't think that. Uh.
Speaker 1: People like I said, they were ultra conservatives. So a
Speaker 1: big hobby of ultra conservatives is just the hate on
Speaker 1: everybody else because everybody is bringing the world down. So
Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's possible for you to be
Speaker 1: happy when you're so concerned with everybody else in the
Speaker 1: world is doing. And I mean, you see these people
Speaker 1: like Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones, and all they do
Speaker 1: is spread these ridiculous just hate mongering. Really, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't believe they're happy people. They can't be because
Speaker 1: if there's their mission in life to make sure that
Speaker 1: that their their viewpoints are spread throughout the mountains, it's like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And then so many dangerous that
Speaker 1: could be deadly with that whole pizza thing. Get that
Speaker 1: all the time? Like get what all the time? People
Speaker 1: think that doesn't is part of the pizza gate. What, yes,
Speaker 1: was like a sex trafficking, sex trafficking. It was a
Speaker 1: child as far as I mean, I don't read into it,
Speaker 1: but from what I understand, it was a child sex
Speaker 1: trafficking ring set up in the basement of a pizza
Speaker 1: restaurant in d C. And this restaurant does exist, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't have a basement. But you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of magical things happened. Because they also believe that we're Satanists,
Speaker 1: We're probably Illuminati, were Freemasons, I mean, are also different too.
Speaker 1: It's like again like people just greeping things and that
Speaker 1: do not go together. Yeah, aliens and you live on
Speaker 1: boats but on ground and I don't know how they
Speaker 1: do it, but it's witchcraft. Yes, I've been told that
Speaker 1: I'm an actual witch so many times. And I mean
Speaker 1: that's kind of cool, right, Yeah. I was like, that's
Speaker 1: a compliment or our second touring show that Current and
Speaker 1: I did. We called it the Bridget Bishop Tour. She
Speaker 1: was the first person to be executed in the Sale,
Speaker 1: which trials because yeah, when she was yeah, sunk out
Speaker 1: little you know, like to have a good time. Yet
Speaker 1: because I really I spent so much time following you
Speaker 1: guys and researching you but before you're before you came
Speaker 1: here today, and because I had just kind of organically
Speaker 1: come across the Instagram page because I'll go on like
Speaker 1: an Instagram deep dive, partly just because that's what the
Speaker 1: Internet doesn't, partly to find guests for this podcast. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, when I saw so much uproar, I really
Speaker 1: really do try to play Devil's advocate with anything before
Speaker 1: we present. I try not to just you know, present
Speaker 1: the liberal or feminist idea just because it's part of
Speaker 1: the conversation. And I really looked at a lot of things,
Speaker 1: and I was looking forward to meeting you and seeing
Speaker 1: if you were you know, I mean, listen, I've been
Speaker 1: I've did a lot of theater as a kid. I know,
Speaker 1: a stage mom. When I see one. You are like
Speaker 1: the antithesis of the stage. You totally let Desmond take
Speaker 1: the lead, and you seem very genuine. Why I'm not
Speaker 1: and not a conservative either, So that's I mean, just
Speaker 1: because you offered it? What like, what do you so
Speaker 1: are you just like gone rogue like I like to
Speaker 1: sometimes say, or I think that I agree more with
Speaker 1: like democratic socialism because I believe that it should be
Speaker 1: the government's uh uh. I think the government should provide
Speaker 1: us with more social programs. I think that should be
Speaker 1: the responsibility. Why do we not have free health care?
Speaker 1: Why do we know we have for people to prosper? Exactly?
Speaker 1: So I lean more towards that. I agree with a
Speaker 1: lot of what the liberals stand for. But I wouldn't
Speaker 1: call myself a liberal, more of maybe an independent. If
Speaker 1: I had it registered to vote, be forced to put something.
Speaker 1: But since I was able to vote it, I've always registered,
Speaker 1: you know, as part of the Socialist Party. Interesting, I'm
Speaker 1: sure the haters will love that. Oh yeah, give him fodder.
Speaker 1: Yet why do you think it's because they do blame
Speaker 1: so much like on you know, on liberals or on feminists,
Speaker 1: and they say I have an agenda and that's why,
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm I'm aware of that, and that's
Speaker 1: why I always try to make sure that you know
Speaker 1: fully research and if anything does seem questionable. And I
Speaker 1: really I looked far and wide and read everything. There
Speaker 1: was a couple of things I had questions about, and
Speaker 1: then I found answers and talked to you, and there's
Speaker 1: just really nothing that I can see, and I don't
Speaker 1: understand what people are spending so much time. So then
Speaker 1: we come to December eighteen and um Desmond performs at
Speaker 1: a venue called three Dollar Bill in Brooklyn where he's
Speaker 1: tipped for his performances. Um as drag queens are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing I want to say again, like
Speaker 1: just I think a lot of this is just people
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with drag culture. And I was like, thankful, I'm
Speaker 1: super well versed in that. Uh, drag queens perform again
Speaker 1: doing reveals, which is revealing something else that is not
Speaker 1: a breast, not a part of your genitale yet not
Speaker 1: any of that, it's just something another part of your costume. Um,
Speaker 1: and they're tipped in dollars. It's super customary and you
Speaker 1: get it handed to you or you put on the stage.
Speaker 1: I mean, no one's tucking it in like like I mean,
Speaker 1: I think this is you know, obviously I meant just
Speaker 1: the actually adults have done that, very very very like
Speaker 1: Violet Trash shows, very adults in the in the hands
Speaker 1: of the performer to accept it that way. A lot
Speaker 1: of people don't want that. A lot of people complain
Speaker 1: that they from the drag queens I've spoken to that
Speaker 1: they don't like people tote things in their personal spaces.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and if they sewed that out, but it's like,
Speaker 1: don't touch my don't touch my right my blazer. And additionally,
Speaker 1: it's actually, uh in drag culture considered rude to watch
Speaker 1: drag performances and not give money like that is that
Speaker 1: is part of that's just part of d drag and
Speaker 1: it's just And I will also add on that as
Speaker 1: someone who has spent a lot of time in gay
Speaker 1: bars number one, as a straight woman, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before. I go to gay bars a lot of
Speaker 1: times because it feels like a much safer space. It's
Speaker 1: very much to me because it is less sexual unless
Speaker 1: you are an adult gay man, then it's more sexual.
Speaker 1: But again, like the time when the drag show is on,
Speaker 1: I can talk to you talk from experience. Is the
Speaker 1: least erotic or sexual time that you'll ever spend in
Speaker 1: it because everyone's watching the show and it's like and
Speaker 1: it's heightened their their caricatures of performers. UM. So it's
Speaker 1: like a caricature of a female. So it's it's beyond female,
Speaker 1: it's hyper female. UM. And again just performance art. One
Speaker 1: of my good friends is a bio queen as well,
Speaker 1: so again it's similar thing going on. UM. So he performed,
Speaker 1: he was tipped by the audience at three dollar bill
Speaker 1: and then breit Bart jumped on the story and said
Speaker 1: he was stripping. What what do the articles? Of course, no,
Speaker 1: they don't reach out to the family desk for anything
Speaker 1: because then I would ruin their narrative exactly like what else? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know how this can take up a
Speaker 1: full article. What did they say other than he was
Speaker 1: details basically what the what the story was is he
Speaker 1: was in a gay bar associated with people who were
Speaker 1: drinking alcohol, uh, stripping for dollar bills while pedophiles were
Speaker 1: dru lene over him. I mean terrible. They hit every
Speaker 1: single UH stereotype you can and yes alcohol was served
Speaker 1: at this UM venue. However, the performing space is completely
Speaker 1: separate from the bar, even separate by double doors, so
Speaker 1: Desmond wasn't in the bar, nor is he allowed in
Speaker 1: the bar area. I mean that the place could lose
Speaker 1: their liquor license for that for sure. And it's crazy
Speaker 1: that I know that celebrities can sue tabloids for slander,
Speaker 1: but is that, like that is such a violating story
Speaker 1: to write dedicating a whole article to this is there?
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know anything about this, or
Speaker 1: maybe somebody listening does so. I know, I understand freedom
Speaker 1: of the press, but you're reporting and quotes on a
Speaker 1: story with things that aren't true. So but one could
Speaker 1: argue that that's very damaging with the pizza gate stuff,
Speaker 1: somebody came down to shoot up the place because they
Speaker 1: were But but it's like that could have that could
Speaker 1: stoke something in an unst able person all the time.
Speaker 1: And now can you take legal action because you do
Speaker 1: hate crimes that are happening to you? They really are
Speaker 1: hate crimes. And we have reported things to the Hate
Speaker 1: Crimes Division of the New York you know, police Department,
Speaker 1: and we've reported other things there as well. We did
Speaker 1: we had some guy trying to pretend to be a
Speaker 1: federal agent from the FBI to try and get our
Speaker 1: personal information. We've had all our personal information already posted
Speaker 1: on like four Chan and everything. Oh my god, and
Speaker 1: we've had strange people come to the door. And it's
Speaker 1: scary because I'm stay at home mom, So I'm at
Speaker 1: home alone in the mornings. I probably shouldn't even stay.
Speaker 1: This are going to come. Well, wait, what happened? What
Speaker 1: do they do? What do they do? Answer the doors?
Speaker 1: You just they ring the door, I don't answer. I've
Speaker 1: stopped answering my phone. I've stopped answering the door unless
Speaker 1: I know I'm expecting someone or expecting a call, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, all our personal informations out there, and
Speaker 1: people definitely will call up and you know, ream you
Speaker 1: out because this story here says to me, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: So if these people's true intentions they're taxing the welfare
Speaker 1: of a child, they're doing exact opposite by this, like
Speaker 1: by giving out your personal and nowhere in history has
Speaker 1: given out someone's address helped that person's never really never
Speaker 1: unless you interview, unless they're trapped in a basement and
Speaker 1: the basement's on fire. It's never helped disappearing basement. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the pizza gay basement. Well they probably filled it in
Speaker 1: with concrete just in time. Yeah. And it's it's just
Speaker 1: it's it's and I think basically a lot of it
Speaker 1: is misunderstanding. And because you're just really trying to wrap
Speaker 1: my mind around why a lot of adults would spend
Speaker 1: this much time I have no self esteem, I think
Speaker 1: is part of it, right, And because there are so
Speaker 1: many examples again, like of pedophilia actually happening and no
Speaker 1: one tried to stop that, you know, the Catholic Church. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. What are we talking about? And
Speaker 1: I'm at least glad that people are talking about the
Speaker 1: word pedophilia and without going you know the thing where
Speaker 1: the adult like it's like, we started this podcast, we
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot, and so many listeners have
Speaker 1: emailed us, and they are constantly emailing us about being
Speaker 1: molested as a child or more and it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this happens way more than I thought. And
Speaker 1: then now finally it's reaching an international even conversation where
Speaker 1: we're really talking about it on a bigger level. So people,
Speaker 1: when something bad does happen, you can go, oh, this
Speaker 1: isn't right. I need to get myself out of this situation.
Speaker 1: Tell an adult something. I think it is being talked
Speaker 1: about more, but I think that it's also being talked
Speaker 1: about in the wrong way, especially in Desmond. Situation just
Speaker 1: doesn't help educate anybody. And I think it's a real
Speaker 1: service to people that have actually been molested as children. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and uh so we we kind of know your your
Speaker 1: background and your perspective on things. Was your husband's perspective
Speaker 1: and outlook on Desman's life so always the same or
Speaker 1: was he as well him ing and encouraging as you
Speaker 1: or just because we know a lot of times dads
Speaker 1: aren't as cool. And oh, you know, he's been supportive
Speaker 1: the whole time, the whole time. And did you guys
Speaker 1: have a conversation separately as a couple about you know,
Speaker 1: when when Desmond started addressing in girls clothing or came
Speaker 1: out as gay and how did you handle that as
Speaker 1: a family. We talked about it. We actually went to
Speaker 1: a therapist when Dozens about six years old because I
Speaker 1: wanted to understand what is going on, like why is
Speaker 1: he wanting to wear all these dresses all the time?
Speaker 1: I mean, because it went from being cute he was
Speaker 1: taking my fit fitted sheets to him now always wanting
Speaker 1: to wear girl's clothes. We go to the store and
Speaker 1: he wants girls clothes. So I went to the therapist
Speaker 1: of the therapist, you know, talk with Desmond talked with us,
Speaker 1: and he said not to encourage it, not to discourage it,
Speaker 1: but just let it happened naturally. So we said, okay,
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty good, sounds healthy. Yeah. I really love
Speaker 1: that answer because I think obviously I would the opposite
Speaker 1: of a stage mom to not encourage, because I would
Speaker 1: know not to discourage it. But I think, you know,
Speaker 1: and what takes it from like good advice to truly
Speaker 1: professional advice is to also not encourage it, because that's
Speaker 1: still swooping in as a parent, and like leading someone
Speaker 1: like you don't want to lead a witness. You don't
Speaker 1: want to lead a child unless they're coming and asking
Speaker 1: for help, because that's what allows the kid to be
Speaker 1: what they want to be. And like, you don't know,
Speaker 1: is this a phase or is this truly who he is?
Speaker 1: And I mean obviously seems to be truly who he is.
Speaker 1: And you know, at any time, I'm sure if you
Speaker 1: wanted to not do it anymore, you'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's cool. Yeah. I mean we have. He's been to
Speaker 1: uh like auditions for acting. He's been in a movie. Um,
Speaker 1: and we go there, we do see stage ROMs and
Speaker 1: they are frightening. They are obsessed. They are they're like
Speaker 1: practically about to kill their child because they're not, you know,
Speaker 1: practicing their script right or constantly fixing their hair. And
Speaker 1: it's just very weird and obsessive. It's like, how can
Speaker 1: I live through you, Michael if you're not doing it right? Honestly? Um?
Speaker 1: And then umh on Wikipedia and ourselves said that, Um,
Speaker 1: you had said that he's on the esens on the
Speaker 1: spectrum and that drag has actually helped. Can you speak
Speaker 1: a little bit about that. He is slightly on the
Speaker 1: autism spectrum. He does have a d D. He has
Speaker 1: travel focusing, but he's treated for that by a their
Speaker 1: business psychiatrist. Um. And I mean it doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 1: impact his daily life at all. He's, like I said,
Speaker 1: he has his medication, he takes it every day, but
Speaker 1: just doing drag has given him also something to focus
Speaker 1: intensely on, which is good for not like kids with
Speaker 1: a d D kids who might be on the autistic spectrum.
Speaker 1: I mean you can. I mean, as you know, again,
Speaker 1: I wanted to wait to speak to it until I had,
Speaker 1: you know, real living people in the room with us.
Speaker 1: But like you could tell, Christina and I've both been
Speaker 1: in the theater arts for a very long time. Like
Speaker 1: Hasbend walks in with a fancy energy, I will cite
Speaker 1: the energy that like, like if you know, it's like
Speaker 1: the kind of energy that like it would be a
Speaker 1: disservice to stop this person from performing. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: world sometimes and everyone knows a kid like that. Everyone
Speaker 1: knows someone who just has a extra that you need
Speaker 1: to share with the world. Um, so we're glad that
Speaker 1: Desmond sharing it with us. And I think I think
Speaker 1: that probably wraps it about a great role model for
Speaker 1: parents too. Man, you cut such a great head on
Speaker 1: your shoulders, and that's inspiring because I yeah, I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really exciting to see a parent just support their kid.
Speaker 1: I guess the last thing is just like we're we're
Speaker 1: what can we do to help? Because it's been really
Speaker 1: disheartening to uh watch all the negativity and just energy
Speaker 1: that could be used for something better being put into
Speaker 1: trying to stop and even put your family in harm's way.
Speaker 1: So like, is there anything that we can do? Our
Speaker 1: listeners can do a very large platform and we try
Speaker 1: to use it for good not evil sometimes. Um just
Speaker 1: sex Follow Desmond on his social media. He absolutely loves that. Um,
Speaker 1: after I cleared of hate, he's going on reading the comments,
Speaker 1: reading talks with a lot of it's on Instagram, and
Speaker 1: they really do, like he said, they tell him things like,
Speaker 1: you've inspired me to do drag. Um. There have been
Speaker 1: kids we've we know two that had told him that
Speaker 1: I was feeling like I wanted to commit suicide and
Speaker 1: You've helped me a lot of them say You've helped
Speaker 1: me to come out or just express myself. So um,
Speaker 1: you know, he really lives for that and lives for
Speaker 1: hearing other people's stories and experiences and reading the comments
Speaker 1: and just that little bit of encouragement. Not that he
Speaker 1: needs it, but that little bit of encouragement keeps him
Speaker 1: going and I think it helps keep him focused on
Speaker 1: what he wants to do. Awesome, Okay, yeah, definitely follow.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting and you know, if you guys are
Speaker 1: listening and you see bound stuff being said, you can
Speaker 1: step in. We don't need to end the huge fights,
Speaker 1: but you know, I do know respectfully listen, there's like
Speaker 1: to step in. So thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: and speaking openly with us. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: it does. Men here thanks. He's coloring in in Christina's
Speaker 1: little nook right now. The Um I put the fancy
Speaker 1: what's it called the disco or a ball? It's really
Speaker 1: cool up there. Um yeah, and so we will talk
Speaker 1: to you next to get my Yeah, yeah, I don't, oh,
Speaker 1: lady Rooster check it around my No, he's just looking
Speaker 1: for some weak willed woman who will let I mean,
Speaker 1: what's more, sister Donna let him in. I'm running, not
Speaker 1: will how war it all, can't give a little bit
Speaker 1: giving it all. Get behind me, Get behind me and
Speaker 1: be go when the closed time all on mighty making
Speaker 1: such a fun hoping and pray it again. Stay out
Speaker 1: of temptation, buddy sounding color