Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and welcome to Steph. Mom never
Speaker 1: told you a protection of I heart media and how
Speaker 1: stuff works. Hello again, listeners, that we are. I'm once
Speaker 1: again joined by Samantha said again twice and now that's
Speaker 1: three times, um, and this is our we And in
Speaker 1: the last episode, you got to sit in on a
Speaker 1: therapy session, UM, one of mine, right yours, and it
Speaker 1: was for me very vulnerable and frightening experience. And now
Speaker 1: it's your now my turn, and y'all kind of I'll
Speaker 1: laugh because when we decided we were going to do this,
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, yeah, we're definitely gonna go in
Speaker 1: heads wrong and I'm so excited. And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we have to do therapy. I don't know, like I
Speaker 1: I kind of pause as I was realizing, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that means I have to unearth all the things that
Speaker 1: I try to stuff down as much as possible because coping. Right. UM,
Speaker 1: Just so I'm going to do the trigger warnings since
Speaker 1: I guess you don't know what happened any right. Again,
Speaker 1: like we said in the last one, we did not
Speaker 1: sit in with each other on these on these episodes,
Speaker 1: We're so close. But I've been talking about so let's
Speaker 1: go ahead and do a therapy sessions together as a couple.
Speaker 1: And that's what happens with a couple. Now, how that goes?
Speaker 1: So for trigger warning, UM, it is gonna have a
Speaker 1: lot of childhood trauma and neglect, emotional and physical abuse. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't think I do too much about sexual abuse,
Speaker 1: but just to know if you have a bevenoment issues
Speaker 1: or if you have attachment issues, it may trigger you.
Speaker 1: So just to throw that out there, UM, before we started,
Speaker 1: I know any had UM previously when we talked about
Speaker 1: rather some types of therapy UM, and how to find
Speaker 1: a good therapists and UM, I'm gonna but this is
Speaker 1: a bad story. UM. I have a long history with
Speaker 1: therapy and several therapists and several rounds of healing tactics
Speaker 1: from religious to clinical. UM. I've experienced several different forms
Speaker 1: studying social work and being in the treatment fields. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it gets really easy to play the diagnosis game. I,
Speaker 1: like many of my generation, grew up with the thought
Speaker 1: that therapy was a sign of weakness and prayer should
Speaker 1: be enough. Now please, No, I'm not saying anything about
Speaker 1: religion or prayer, but as someone who was and has
Speaker 1: been in the field for a while, I know there
Speaker 1: are things that need to be dealt with on a
Speaker 1: clinical level, UM, and maybe even on a uh psych
Speaker 1: psychiatric level. So when I want to say psychiatric, in
Speaker 1: the State of Georgia's psychiatry is a lot of like
Speaker 1: medication UM, specifically types of anxiety, depression, A D, h D,
Speaker 1: all of those types of things. And I'm not one
Speaker 1: of those proponents who advocate for pills, but I think
Speaker 1: it can be necessary. Um. And again, like I said,
Speaker 1: people of faith are amazing people. They can be and
Speaker 1: and that might be enough. Yeah, but again there are
Speaker 1: things that cannot be addressed just by hope. Yes, this
Speaker 1: is those moments of when you need community, when you
Speaker 1: need outside help, and and that's okay. Um. And again
Speaker 1: like I tell, like I said before, I did go
Speaker 1: that religious avenue, and for that moment it was okay,
Speaker 1: But eventually I had to go a little beyond. Um.
Speaker 1: And now that we're talking about the little beyond or
Speaker 1: the clinical level, UM, I want to talk about specific
Speaker 1: types of therapy. UM. In the previous episode, any I
Speaker 1: know you, we discussed different types of therapy, and but
Speaker 1: I wanted to get a little more in depth in
Speaker 1: the definitions of some of these types of therapy, and
Speaker 1: just to throw this out there, there's like over fifty
Speaker 1: problems and it's always developing, and there's always new ideas,
Speaker 1: there's new all new concepts, and also there's also new
Speaker 1: UM some diagnosis that have been diagnosed yet. So we
Speaker 1: know that the D S M five, D S and four,
Speaker 1: it keeps coming out because it has to reevaluate what
Speaker 1: is out there. So for a long while, autism and
Speaker 1: being on the spectrum was called Asperger's UM, and Asperger's
Speaker 1: was an overall term that was like a general umbrella
Speaker 1: for people who may not be severe aspergers UM. But
Speaker 1: they realized this is a spectrum and you may have
Speaker 1: the lesser to the larger, and it became a new
Speaker 1: diagnosis in itself, and Aspergers was kind of thrown out
Speaker 1: the window. And I think that's necessary for many of things.
Speaker 1: We've changed. The idea of multiple personality disorder has also
Speaker 1: become something else, which is disassociative identity disorder UM. So
Speaker 1: I think you know, it changes constantly, and the therapy
Speaker 1: types and the therapy um theories, therapeutic theories have changed
Speaker 1: and will continue to change because one of the things
Speaker 1: that we don't understand quite completely. It's the brain, is
Speaker 1: the mind, as the chemicals, it's all of that. Um so,
Speaker 1: but we didn't want to talk about a little bit
Speaker 1: of what is out there? What is there? And I'm
Speaker 1: only giving a few of those. Uh, one of them
Speaker 1: would be CBT. We talked about that previously, the cognitive
Speaker 1: behavioral therapy, and the concept behind that is that our
Speaker 1: thoughts about a situation, how we feel, and how we
Speaker 1: behave are all interrelated. This teaches you to change and
Speaker 1: examine how you think act in order for you to
Speaker 1: change how you feel. And again I think that's important
Speaker 1: because how we feel sometimes takes over what should what
Speaker 1: we should think, or the logical senses. Right said that
Speaker 1: for me, And this is often actually used for children
Speaker 1: as young as for and focuses more on behavior. So
Speaker 1: I work with children and this is one of the
Speaker 1: things is if they have erratic behaviors or UM hyperactive behavior,
Speaker 1: maybe CBT could be an alternate route to medication UM.
Speaker 1: And some of the diagnosis that may be treated with
Speaker 1: CBT includes substance abuse, anxiety depression PTSD, and self esteem
Speaker 1: issues and so many things. Because under CBT, we have
Speaker 1: things like DBT, which you had also talked about, the
Speaker 1: dialectical behavior therapy, and this is again a type of CBT,
Speaker 1: and usually teach us skills such as how to manage,
Speaker 1: manage attention or mindfulness skills, manage and cope with emotions
Speaker 1: or emotional regulation skills, deal effectively with others, the interpersonal skills,
Speaker 1: and tolerate emotion distress so distress tolerant skills. This is
Speaker 1: a bit more intensive and also actually involves groups. UM.
Speaker 1: And it's often used for borderline personality disorder. I know
Speaker 1: that was an episode with stuff mom never told you previously,
Speaker 1: eating disorders, self harming behaviors, and even angry issues. UM.
Speaker 1: And then we also want to talk about e M
Speaker 1: d R. Actually, I think that was highlighted on UM
Speaker 1: Russian Doll. Oh was it? Yeah, the whole lightning. I
Speaker 1: don't know if any seen. I hope that was spoiler
Speaker 1: thing because one of the caretakers to the main character
Speaker 1: as a therapist and she has this light thing where
Speaker 1: she uses But this is a non traditional form of
Speaker 1: psychotherapy designed to diminish negative feelings associated with memories or
Speaker 1: traumatic events. So the goal of e M d R
Speaker 1: is to fully process past experiences and sort out the
Speaker 1: emotions attached through these experiences. And then I also want
Speaker 1: to talk about the traumatic trauma focused cognitive therapy, which
Speaker 1: is a form of cognitive behive therapy UM and that
Speaker 1: addresses the specific emotion and mental health needs of children, adolescents,
Speaker 1: adult survivors, and families who are struggling to overcome the
Speaker 1: destructive effects of early trauma. So narrative therapy, which is
Speaker 1: a form of counseling that views people as separate from
Speaker 1: their problems. This allows people to get distance from the
Speaker 1: issues to see how it might actually be helping them
Speaker 1: or process in them more than if it's hurting them.
Speaker 1: So essentially you write it out as if you're the
Speaker 1: third person from what I understand, UM, and again I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think as you told me, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what you may be doing a narrative UM. So part
Speaker 1: of my therapy is narrative work, which is UM basically
Speaker 1: describing something a traumatic experience in my case, UM and
Speaker 1: going through it step by step. And then if you
Speaker 1: get overwhelmed and you feel like you can't tell this story,
Speaker 1: then UM, you have to. There's these things called like
Speaker 1: the stress units and you have time, what is identify why,
Speaker 1: what is it? Why? I how to manage it and
Speaker 1: then try to tell the whole story. And I've done
Speaker 1: it one time with one of my experiences so far,
Speaker 1: and it was it was difficult, but I can see
Speaker 1: the value in it for sure. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: the route out me going future therapies, just because it
Speaker 1: was so it's so traumatic for me to go back,
Speaker 1: and honestly, because the memories are so fuzzy that it
Speaker 1: is best to be a third person story. And again,
Speaker 1: these are just a small list, obviously, of all the
Speaker 1: types of therapy that is out there. I found one
Speaker 1: about feminist therapy. You and I talked about that, which
Speaker 1: was fascinating in itself. It started in the nineteen sixties
Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's all about empowerment and growing and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, I'm down for that. For that,
Speaker 1: give you that, um. And like I said, it's according
Speaker 1: to you, UM. And we told you in the previous
Speaker 1: episodes about trying to find a good therapist, you need
Speaker 1: to see what they're qualified in, and they typically have
Speaker 1: a list of their specialties and that is good to
Speaker 1: look at, yes, for sure. And another thing from our
Speaker 1: past episode is our disclaimer, which we can kind of
Speaker 1: briefly do. If you want a more detail disclaimer, listen
Speaker 1: to the one before this. But um, legally we went
Speaker 1: through all the hoops of having these on air, right,
Speaker 1: essentially signing all the discolosion of forms and forms forms. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: and we this has been months of talking about of
Speaker 1: doing therapy and then talking about what would be healthy
Speaker 1: and what wouldn't for us to share, um in this
Speaker 1: kind of format. So uh, we we've done all those things. Um,
Speaker 1: we are protecting each other. There's been confidentiality. Um, and
Speaker 1: we are podcasters. We signed the forms. If you get therapy,
Speaker 1: I promise you sign a forum and I have a podcast,
Speaker 1: Like it's confidential again. It was so unusual. Dr Coleman
Speaker 1: was like, well, let me think about this is who
Speaker 1: we made this legal perspective of both you and I. Yes,
Speaker 1: So we're about to get to the session here, but
Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break for
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. H m hm, and we're back,
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored. Hey. So, yes, we're about to get
Speaker 1: into my session. Um, and I'm gonna tell you it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a little more intense than I'm already feeling
Speaker 1: it than Annie, because somehow my sessions in the last
Speaker 1: two sessions again we told you were doing previously was
Speaker 1: not the sentence, but we did discuss that what I
Speaker 1: needed at this point in time, and my sessions were
Speaker 1: to break down my past because a lot of my triggering,
Speaker 1: a lot of my um episodes happened with what she
Speaker 1: would call body memory, and for me, I would say
Speaker 1: sensory triggering, because it's not necessarily the things that are
Speaker 1: completely clearly remember. It is what I experienced. So it
Speaker 1: may be a smell, It maybe a taste, it may
Speaker 1: be a conversation, but typically a smell and taste is
Speaker 1: what I do more or even like familiar. The fear
Speaker 1: in itself may be familiar to me, so I like
Speaker 1: the fight or flight. So we're going to be discussing
Speaker 1: what you're gonna hear are my times in the orphanage
Speaker 1: and with my biological family. I am adopted. I was
Speaker 1: adopted when I was seven, and I came into the
Speaker 1: US from South Korea. Beforehand, I was actually in an orphanage,
Speaker 1: and beforehand, I was actually in the care of a
Speaker 1: biological grandmother who is very strict um, and from the
Speaker 1: memories that I have, was physically abusive UM. And you're
Speaker 1: going to hear a lot of things of that, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna have here moments of me kind of having breakdowns,
Speaker 1: but revelations I guess about the past memories. So just
Speaker 1: to throw that out there, and you're gonna hear me cry.
Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm okay with that because crying
Speaker 1: is not weakness. So here you go, thank you for
Speaker 1: doing this and real talk. I'm nervous, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: so let's talk about that, all right, Here we go.
Speaker 1: I guess in general, um, Obviously, I've talked about a
Speaker 1: lot about my trauma UM for a while now, like
Speaker 1: that's been a part of my job, that's been a
Speaker 1: part of my passion. But going in depth, which is
Speaker 1: what you and I were talking about, in general, is
Speaker 1: really nerve wracking for me because un routing things that
Speaker 1: I can't quite remember, it's very UM fearful. I guess
Speaker 1: I'm anticipating because I am a pessimist, maybe a realist,
Speaker 1: however you want to look at it, that the worst
Speaker 1: case scenario may happening right right, And you know, you
Speaker 1: and I talked about the parental situation with the feminist talk,
Speaker 1: and that went even worse than I thought. So I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna lie as kind of where I'm at in life, um,
Speaker 1: expecting the worst case scenario. UM, but so uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on purpose because again I kind of forgot I
Speaker 1: had to be a part of this, right um, and
Speaker 1: you certainly don't have to be fun. I understand and
Speaker 1: appreciate the um, the reason why you are putting yourself
Speaker 1: out there and being vulnerable, and I know that that's
Speaker 1: going to send a really powerful message to people that
Speaker 1: hear it. UM. Yeah. So so feeling like things like
Speaker 1: kind of things have happened in terms of um, some
Speaker 1: events in your life so far as like worst case
Speaker 1: scenario meaning recent conversations with family? Are you part of it?
Speaker 1: Is the fear also related to like who's going to
Speaker 1: hear this? Of course, um, how it will impact them?
Speaker 1: I think in general, whether it is just talking about
Speaker 1: the past, including being in Korea and an orphanage, even
Speaker 1: though that has nothing to do with current situations or
Speaker 1: my current family member, I still am afraid that they're
Speaker 1: going to see that as an attack or me being ungrateful,
Speaker 1: which you and I have talked about already that I
Speaker 1: have this double guilt of um really wishing I had
Speaker 1: a whole case, different case scenario in some aspects UM,
Speaker 1: as well as the fact that I feel ungrateful and
Speaker 1: I've been privileged obviously because I'm in this position where
Speaker 1: I am healthy, I am able to be educated, I
Speaker 1: am able to cope and fin for myself, UM and survive.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's so many things I
Speaker 1: feel like it's lacking and missing in my life and
Speaker 1: has been part of the reason that I can't connect
Speaker 1: with people. Again. You and I have talked about that, UM,
Speaker 1: and I feel like the only way I'm ever I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say this is the kind of a thought process,
Speaker 1: is that the only way that I've been able to
Speaker 1: connect with people is if I feel like I can
Speaker 1: serve the in somehow shape or manner or support them,
Speaker 1: and that's my worth. I have to prove my worth essentially. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I talked about the whole rejection factor and
Speaker 1: the fact that I fear that UM with the rejection
Speaker 1: that I'm also in the way and an inconvenience I think,
Speaker 1: and I talked about that as well. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: all connected, you know, the idea of um, some of
Speaker 1: the survivor guilt that I'm hearing right about you are
Speaker 1: a child that was adopted and what about the children
Speaker 1: that you knew that may not have been right? So
Speaker 1: there's that element. But then also, um, some of the
Speaker 1: culture within the home that you are adopted into UM
Speaker 1: also perpetuates. Like you mentioned some of this um feelings
Speaker 1: of if you have an adverse reaction or if you
Speaker 1: have an opinion that differs from those of your other
Speaker 1: family members, that then you're ungrateful, right, um? And what
Speaker 1: a burden that's been, right, And yeah, I guess um,
Speaker 1: I know. The last time we talked, we talked about
Speaker 1: the fact that I do want to dig deeper because
Speaker 1: that's the aspect that I feel like has been obviously
Speaker 1: the cornerstone of my reactions and my relationships and my
Speaker 1: triggering and my whole um traumatic background as well as
Speaker 1: even my current field and my passions. To be very
Speaker 1: very candid, but I think I'm not gonna lie. I'm
Speaker 1: really scared, Like it's not anything of the like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to mince words. I'm scared, right right, of course,
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of uncharted territory and it's not comfortable.
Speaker 1: It's going to be something new that you'll dive into,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think I think we've discussed about
Speaker 1: how you're at a place in your life where it's
Speaker 1: becoming a parent, that it's necessary because ways that you
Speaker 1: have been able to cope may not be working as
Speaker 1: well for you because they were in the past exactly.
Speaker 1: UM So I'll say this real that you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you also say to the people you work with.
Speaker 1: You get to control the pace of this, right. You
Speaker 1: get to decide um what we talk about regarding some
Speaker 1: the trauma reprocessing and um going back to peeling back
Speaker 1: the layers of a lot of experiences that you probably
Speaker 1: have not thought about as much. And so if there's
Speaker 1: ever a time when we're talking about something, or we
Speaker 1: get onto a topic and you're feeling really triggered or
Speaker 1: emotionally reactive and just feeling like you need to pause
Speaker 1: or you want to change the topics, you get to
Speaker 1: control that. So you just let me know and I'll
Speaker 1: continue to check in with you. Um So, in terms
Speaker 1: of places to start, I know that we've chatted a
Speaker 1: bit about um some of the memories, the ring pieces
Speaker 1: of memory and some memories being concrete, and then a
Speaker 1: lot of the memories really being held also in your
Speaker 1: body versus r I'm wondering, in light of those conversations,
Speaker 1: if there's a place that feels safest for us to
Speaker 1: start UM. I don't know if it's the safest. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's the most clear, uh, in which, of course I
Speaker 1: would rather know than not. That's kind of my whole thing.
Speaker 1: I would rather know if something's bad and I feel
Speaker 1: okay with that, so I can at least be prepared
Speaker 1: or I've already reacted. Um. So, some of the things
Speaker 1: that I do remember, UM is the fact that I
Speaker 1: lived with my biological grandmother, who is the mother of
Speaker 1: my biological mother, who gave me up um at a
Speaker 1: very young age, and I was told later that it
Speaker 1: was due to the fact that she got remarried. And
Speaker 1: within the South Korean culture, I don't know if his
Speaker 1: law or whether it's just UM cultural that typically a
Speaker 1: half child or a step child does not live with
Speaker 1: a male to prevent a further abuse and or um stigma.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't actually know. And so in which
Speaker 1: I was given to the care of my grandmother, who
Speaker 1: was a very strict woman. I was the only child
Speaker 1: with her who owned I think a restaurant. There was
Speaker 1: some kind of starving thing. I know that for sure.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you see how that theme, Yeah, popped up already. Okay,
Speaker 1: but we'll book well, bookmarket that book mark that one. UM.
Speaker 1: I know that I could not stay with my biological
Speaker 1: father because of his alcoholism. Now that was something that
Speaker 1: I remember clearly, UM, because I rarely saw him, but
Speaker 1: I might saw I might have visited with his mother, UM,
Speaker 1: and I do have some memories of going with her
Speaker 1: UM at one point in time. UH, posy for second
Speaker 1: and ask so that UM to see if there's elements
Speaker 1: of this conversation that we can kind of even UM
Speaker 1: dial into in more personal ways. Do you remember any
Speaker 1: of their names? I do not. Wow, I've never been
Speaker 1: asked that. UM. I'm very quick to react because, as
Speaker 1: you said, that there's nothing triggering. I don't even The
Speaker 1: only reason I know my Korean name, it's because it's
Speaker 1: not my birth certificate from Korea. What is my Korean name?
Speaker 1: My Korean name is Lisa Young, so my family name
Speaker 1: would have been Lee. And the only reason I do
Speaker 1: know that is because again part of my birth certificate.
Speaker 1: But um, my adopted parents actually put that in my
Speaker 1: American name. So my my full name is Samantha Lee McVeigh.
Speaker 1: So they kept my Yeah, they did do that. They
Speaker 1: kept my UM, I will say, for what they could do.
Speaker 1: They tried to keep my marianage. Um, but that was
Speaker 1: my family name. And outside of that, honestly don't know
Speaker 1: because I can't even remember anybody calling me by my name. Mhm.
Speaker 1: How does it feel for you to say your Korean
Speaker 1: name out out? Um? It feels uh foreign, I guess
Speaker 1: the best way to say. It doesn't feel real. It
Speaker 1: I can't identify with that. Yeah. Um. And and maybe
Speaker 1: part of that has to do with it. Even in
Speaker 1: being in Korea, when I was in the orphanage, I
Speaker 1: wanted to be someone else, and I pretended to be
Speaker 1: someone else. Whether it was trying to protect myself from um,
Speaker 1: the hurt that was happening within my own age group,
Speaker 1: within the kids that were there or the girls that
Speaker 1: were in there, or whether it's because I felt dis owned.
Speaker 1: Maybe that was the best word I have. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't even think that through. So to me,
Speaker 1: it is such a distant idea that I can't identify
Speaker 1: with that into someone where to ever call me, that
Speaker 1: I would never turn around. It would not be a
Speaker 1: thing that would turn around. Um. I did remember I
Speaker 1: would write it out as a kid in Korean, and
Speaker 1: then I remembered it as an adult trying to write
Speaker 1: it out, um, when I was taking the Korean classes
Speaker 1: in college. But yeah, I actually don't identify with that
Speaker 1: at all. Right, So when you say it, there is
Speaker 1: not an emotion, an emotional connection or reaction is an
Speaker 1: unfamiliar territory almost if was that I'm telling a story
Speaker 1: or almost like I feel like I'm reaching to find
Speaker 1: my identity, but it's not me mm hmm, like you're
Speaker 1: describing somebody else. Right, It really does, which is interesting
Speaker 1: because that was the picture that I was giving when
Speaker 1: I was hearing you start to talk about it. Obviously
Speaker 1: setting the scene, which is any part of the absence
Speaker 1: of like that emotional connection, um, which we'll get into,
Speaker 1: because I think that there's something to be said about
Speaker 1: that too. And even if it's just the loss of
Speaker 1: feeling that emotional compression and what that has meant for you,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie just realizing saying that to you,
Speaker 1: and then you asked me the question about their names.
Speaker 1: It's definitely putting a lot of UM, unnecessarily darkness, but
Speaker 1: overwhelming um guilt because that's what I live off of,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I should UM, and for some
Speaker 1: reason it feels like I'm failing. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think because I remember when I was a kid here
Speaker 1: on the US that one day I just started crying
Speaker 1: UM and my mother asked me. My adoptive mother asked
Speaker 1: me why, and I said, because I can't remember her name,
Speaker 1: and I was talking about the gray, the biological grandmother
Speaker 1: who took care of me UM, and I couldn't remember
Speaker 1: her face. I remember saying that, and my mother was
Speaker 1: my adoptive mother was very compassionate about that and just
Speaker 1: talked continue to tell me how they did the best
Speaker 1: they could and they did what was best for me
Speaker 1: and putting me in the um orphanation for adoption. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember, I don't even know how old that was.
Speaker 1: I think a tenoral Levin and just feeling distraught that
Speaker 1: I could not remember what she looked like and I
Speaker 1: could not remember her name. You see, that still is
Speaker 1: right emotionally and actual, it is emotional in your face.
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about that memory in a long time. Actually,
Speaker 1: obviously as I'm trying to remember because as we were
Speaker 1: talking about this, because obviously that's all related. Yeah uh.
Speaker 1: Because even though the memories of my biological family are
Speaker 1: not the greatest um, because all of that has something
Speaker 1: to do with either guilt or or um survival, it
Speaker 1: still feels like I have let someone down weirdly enough, yeah,
Speaker 1: m hm ah mm hmmm. And to be more specific,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you've let your rhean family down
Speaker 1: and that they had expectations for you to remember them? No,
Speaker 1: I I don't know that's the thing as much as
Speaker 1: that was my life at one point in time, but
Speaker 1: more so for me, I think it was just forgetting
Speaker 1: part of my life. Um. And it's this whole guilt
Speaker 1: of like I need to remember everything. I need to
Speaker 1: remember the good things. I need to know that, I
Speaker 1: need to be grateful that I'm not dead. I need
Speaker 1: to remember that I need to be grateful that I
Speaker 1: did have another opportunity instead of being one more statistic
Speaker 1: um of all the darkness that could happen for many
Speaker 1: of the girls that are cast aside um and in
Speaker 1: that area or in that timeframe. Um, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's just and as a kid, and UM, I
Speaker 1: think I needed to know. I needed to feel like
Speaker 1: they missed me, and if that was the case, that
Speaker 1: I need to remember who they were. Yeah, so that
Speaker 1: could be by somebody missing you means that they valued
Speaker 1: you that at that are important to someone cared. Yeah,
Speaker 1: outside of that, So I think whether it's wishful thinking
Speaker 1: and or whether it's just me feeling needing to feel
Speaker 1: guilty because I'm okay, um whatever, which whichever one that
Speaker 1: is mm hmm. What I'm struck by is your level
Speaker 1: of insight at such a young age, because I understand
Speaker 1: as an adult and and you know where you are
Speaker 1: now in your life looking back at that time frame
Speaker 1: of adoptions from Korea, Like, I know that you are
Speaker 1: aware of all of the socio political culture and implications
Speaker 1: around that, but when you were in it as a
Speaker 1: young child, it seems like you had this awareness of
Speaker 1: um needing to be present or you you describe it
Speaker 1: as to be grateful for everything because the things would
Speaker 1: have been worse. And I'm curious about what you remember
Speaker 1: about where you picked up those messages. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't honestly know whether I it was more of like
Speaker 1: the daily survival in the orphanage, because I just remember, um,
Speaker 1: everything that was happening, me leaving me, being adopted, may
Speaker 1: being in a different country, be having a new family, uh.
Speaker 1: And it could have been just ingrained in me because
Speaker 1: it was almost the motto good things are happening because
Speaker 1: you're leaving here, You're getting a new opportunity, you're getting
Speaker 1: a new family. They want you um. And it could
Speaker 1: be very well the case that that was the first
Speaker 1: time I've been told us and wanted um, and that
Speaker 1: I've been always chosen. And I know even with my
Speaker 1: uh now the adoptive family, their story on adopting me
Speaker 1: was a long process. So it was felt like for
Speaker 1: them it was faith in God during the perfect timing.
Speaker 1: And obviously I'm not as religious, but in my mind
Speaker 1: it was like, it is cool if it's not coincidental.
Speaker 1: But it seemed like if there's fate, is fate um,
Speaker 1: and so therefore I should be grateful for that um
Speaker 1: and that because because it comes. That's my origin story essentially,
Speaker 1: instead of just talking about the birth story. It began
Speaker 1: in the nine before I was born with my adopted
Speaker 1: parents having a movement and wanting to adopt and then
Speaker 1: fostering instead and having to wait until I was actually
Speaker 1: in the orphanage for a year or two to be adopted.
Speaker 1: And she my mother had a specific country, UM, and
Speaker 1: that's the specific gender, and she wanted she didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: need a baby, which is rare, as you know, UM.
Speaker 1: And so all of those things seems just aligned perfectly. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think just with that UM, and with the
Speaker 1: religious aspect, it's gratefulness or miracles, those both of those
Speaker 1: things come into play. So I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: though necessarily like it came after or beginning before UM
Speaker 1: that I was told and thought and and and needed
Speaker 1: to believe that yes, I'm supposed to I'm the one
Speaker 1: for all, meaning to believe that about and just thinking
Speaker 1: about how adaptive that was, and and I think, UM,
Speaker 1: and that's probably again why I am a social worker.
Speaker 1: There's no in my thought process and beginning beginning of
Speaker 1: this career, beginning this avenue is there's no way I
Speaker 1: went through all of this for just for me, or
Speaker 1: there's no way that I can and feel and know
Speaker 1: this or are um learn or grow into this empathy
Speaker 1: without a purpose. Um. And again this is also where
Speaker 1: I watch children, and if they're not in the same place,
Speaker 1: or if they're not able to get to that same
Speaker 1: place as I am or be able to react the
Speaker 1: way I am, I feel guilty because I could. Or
Speaker 1: even though being in where I am, being where I'm at,
Speaker 1: it feels a very privileged for me to be at
Speaker 1: this point, and therefore, with that privilege, I should do more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to. I want to pause on that for
Speaker 1: a second, because there's a couple of things I want
Speaker 1: to point out. Um. One that it's it's not either or,
Speaker 1: but it's a both and right, like there's room for
Speaker 1: both truths to exist. That there may have been things
Speaker 1: that you wish it been that had been done differently,
Speaker 1: but also you can still hold the gratitude right that
Speaker 1: is there space in your mind and your heart for
Speaker 1: both of those feelings to be there. Um. And then
Speaker 1: also keeping in mind language like should, because that oftentimes
Speaker 1: can set all of us up for um negative feelings,
Speaker 1: but also believing thoughts that are not helpful to us,
Speaker 1: Like there is you know, words like should, never, could, always,
Speaker 1: we don't live life? Isn't it absolute? Like that. So
Speaker 1: I think that you've done really wonderful things and have
Speaker 1: used your story and your experiences continue to help support
Speaker 1: other people. M hm. You know, making sure to you
Speaker 1: honor that within yourself too, and lightening up on some
Speaker 1: of those more oppressive thoughts that you may say within
Speaker 1: your own self. Tom, I think that's really hard for
Speaker 1: me to do. Yeah, in general, absolutely so. I know
Speaker 1: that you started kind of talking a bit about what
Speaker 1: you do remember, and you were sharing about your maternal
Speaker 1: grandmother and how you understand how you came to live
Speaker 1: with her right um, and that you had some visits
Speaker 1: with your paternal grandmother. Talk to me a bit more
Speaker 1: about what you with your maternal grandmother. I think you
Speaker 1: and I had already kind of discussed some of the
Speaker 1: things that I do remember, which were not the greatest memories, um,
Speaker 1: of a woman who was very, very strict. Ah, I
Speaker 1: honestly don't remember much. I told you about watching Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson and Madonna and me no that as the US
Speaker 1: at that point in time. UM. That just dated me,
Speaker 1: didn't it. Um. But then I think I told you
Speaker 1: about the fact that I never actually had toys, um,
Speaker 1: and that one of the reasons I think I went
Speaker 1: to see the paternal side. They did try to send me,
Speaker 1: from what I remember, gifts and toys, and it was
Speaker 1: never given to me. I was shown it, but was
Speaker 1: told that I had to earn it, and I can't
Speaker 1: remember ever earning one UM and these are aware. I
Speaker 1: have the dreams that kind of intertwine because the memories
Speaker 1: I do have, So I have this weird memory of
Speaker 1: watching them making kimchi and a giant tub um. I
Speaker 1: remember that, and then also having a memory of men
Speaker 1: coming in UM and nothing bad. My grandmother's the biological
Speaker 1: maternal grandmothers who were customers who are regulars and knew
Speaker 1: her UM and then then being kind to me. I
Speaker 1: do remember that, ah, but me being told I need
Speaker 1: to be in the back room, which is so if
Speaker 1: what I remember is a store or a restaurant with
Speaker 1: a back room where we lived, or a back area
Speaker 1: where we lived, UM, I had to remember a really
Speaker 1: weird and I now realized I believe it had to
Speaker 1: be a dream, because there's no way it could have
Speaker 1: been true. That cut off a finger essentially except for
Speaker 1: a little piece of like a skin on and I
Speaker 1: could just see the blood and pulp and all of
Speaker 1: that when I was trying to eat an apple, um,
Speaker 1: and my grandmother coming back there because I'm screaming and
Speaker 1: telling me to be quiet because I was disturbing the customers.
Speaker 1: And one of the customers came back and helped me
Speaker 1: wrap it up and telling me I need to be
Speaker 1: quiet and every thing will be okay. But that's all
Speaker 1: the memory that I have of that, and I swore
Speaker 1: up and down. I think when I was younger that
Speaker 1: there was a scar on my hand, on my finger
Speaker 1: where it happened. But looking back, like that's that can't
Speaker 1: be right because you don't have a scar on Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think I do have a scar on my hand.
Speaker 1: Neither would I have had a finger since I wasn't
Speaker 1: taking the hospital to be reattached. So the census came
Speaker 1: way later. But it was so distinctive, it was so real,
Speaker 1: and I had it. Um, I was a kid when
Speaker 1: I was swearing up and now this happened to me
Speaker 1: so but I still remember it very clearly, Like as
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you about it, I remember the feeling
Speaker 1: of being yelled at because I was once again getting
Speaker 1: in the way or being too loud, and Um, I
Speaker 1: was in dire need and I didn't get it, and
Speaker 1: I hadn't learned to be quiet. Right, So maybe that's
Speaker 1: them the message of that dream or that experience, right, Like,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the literal finger being cut off, although
Speaker 1: you could have witnessed somebody else's finger and could have
Speaker 1: been traumatic to you know, as children, children they see
Speaker 1: something bad happened to somebody else, and their first thought is,
Speaker 1: as themselves, what if that happens to me? That could
Speaker 1: possibly happen to me kind of a thing. So there's
Speaker 1: a lot of possible explanations, but overall, this idea of
Speaker 1: you being in dire need and that need not being met,
Speaker 1: or not being met by the caregiver, but by a
Speaker 1: stranger who came and then wrapped up your finger. Yeah, definitely, honestly,
Speaker 1: I think that, Like I said, the kimchi memories, what
Speaker 1: I have a memory of me eating with chopsticks and
Speaker 1: a fork. That's what I have. And then I have
Speaker 1: another memory of which I'm pretty sure partially I can't
Speaker 1: tell that I had been locked out of a home
Speaker 1: by the home because I came in too late, so
Speaker 1: I had to stay outside the remainder of the night,
Speaker 1: and that would put me up before five. Um. But
Speaker 1: then I have another memory in which I did that,
Speaker 1: and then I get attacked by a dog and I
Speaker 1: started screaming in the same scenario of my grandmother coming
Speaker 1: out telling me to be quiet because I was waking
Speaker 1: people up and that it's not that bad. So but
Speaker 1: I feel, I don't know, the two separate, feels like
Speaker 1: it blended, like there was an incident that did happen
Speaker 1: that I blended with a nightmare that could have made
Speaker 1: it worse. But again that's kind of the memory that
Speaker 1: I have. And then I have another one which I
Speaker 1: went to the paternal grandmother's and they are going to
Speaker 1: make something with an egg, which I dropped it, and
Speaker 1: the severe disappointment and the um, the amount of disapproval
Speaker 1: that I got from dropping the egg as a four
Speaker 1: or five year old was so harsh that I remember
Speaker 1: feeling like I had done the worst thing ever and
Speaker 1: that I did not I think, ended up being without
Speaker 1: food that day or that night. Um, because of the incident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I do remember that. And then and then the
Speaker 1: other memories that I do have are have a memory
Speaker 1: of coin with my dad to his work. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if this is real, but it seemed kind of
Speaker 1: real because one I think he was a musician. Two
Speaker 1: I think it was at a bar or strip club
Speaker 1: because I remember being doated on by several young women
Speaker 1: UM at that place, and I don't know where that
Speaker 1: fits in UM. There was nothing really bad about it
Speaker 1: because someone was paid people. People are paying attention to me,
Speaker 1: and that was the last thing I remember of that.
Speaker 1: And I do remember being told by both the paternal
Speaker 1: and the maternal grandmother that my dad was an alcoholic
Speaker 1: and that's why he was rarely there. But he was
Speaker 1: never cruel. He was the reason I was getting these
Speaker 1: presents that I wasn't able to able to have because
Speaker 1: he was trying to give it to me, get it
Speaker 1: to me. Those are the memories I have of that.
Speaker 1: When you were a child at that time, did you
Speaker 1: know what an alcoholic because you know what they meant
Speaker 1: or what that? No, did you have any any idea?
Speaker 1: I think the remember the reason I remember part of
Speaker 1: that was they have this distinct memory of a smell
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that until I was older. It's
Speaker 1: this weird like the alcohol smell of beer where it sits,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what that was as a kid,
Speaker 1: I like my adoptive parents do not drink. It's never
Speaker 1: been present around me as what I was growing up,
Speaker 1: so I never knew what that was. But when someone
Speaker 1: would drink and that was around, it was so familiar
Speaker 1: that I couldn't figure out why. Um. And even now
Speaker 1: if I smell it now, there are moments and it's
Speaker 1: specifically beer um that I remember that really distinct alcohol smell,
Speaker 1: like someone who drank beer or amount a large amount
Speaker 1: of beer that's on their mouth. I remember that smell. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other day actually, I was sleeping and uh, there
Speaker 1: was a half open bottle of beer or not bottled,
Speaker 1: but a canna beer. But that like throughout the night
Speaker 1: I smelled it. I was like, what is that? And
Speaker 1: it was so familiar and that kind of linked back
Speaker 1: to oh yeah, this was me growing up as a kid.
Speaker 1: I remember the smell and couldn't figure out what it was.
Speaker 1: But I remember feeling sad. I guess that's the best
Speaker 1: word because it was It wasn't necessarily sad because it
Speaker 1: didn't have sad memories for me, because there was nothing
Speaker 1: volatile about those moments when I smelled that. But I
Speaker 1: just know I wasn't it was familiar and I wasn't
Speaker 1: supposed to be around that or something along those lines. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I had a really deep and grain assoc That
Speaker 1: smell is very familiar, UM, and I now recognize it
Speaker 1: a little more of course as an adult, UM that
Speaker 1: smell than when I was a kid trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what that was. Mhm. It's also a really great
Speaker 1: example of how our bodies hold memories. Yeah, even before
Speaker 1: or even without like a verbal memory of writing. Right,
Speaker 1: because as a small child, not knowing what how the
Speaker 1: adults explained alcoholism to you, or if they did it
Speaker 1: at all, I don't know what that meant, but that
Speaker 1: that smell continues to bring you back at that moment
Speaker 1: all these years later. It's significant, but also really gets
Speaker 1: at how important it is at of healing because the
Speaker 1: trauma can continue to recreate itself and can be retriggered
Speaker 1: throughout different stages of life. There was a connection I
Speaker 1: wanted to make when you were talking about the egg
Speaker 1: incident and the significant disappointment that you sensed from the
Speaker 1: adults in that experience. UM. Again, just like these early
Speaker 1: childhood experiences and how they impact you as an adult
Speaker 1: and help helped shape who you are. The idea of
Speaker 1: not one to disappoint. That's been a recurring thing that
Speaker 1: I've heard your talk out throughout the session. It seems
Speaker 1: like it may have started back then. Yeah, I mean definitely,
Speaker 1: I know you and I talked about the incident when
Speaker 1: my adopted sister gave me a look and that sent
Speaker 1: me into a turmoil, um where I just cried for
Speaker 1: an entire entire hour or so. Um. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: even like I remember, I have very strong, opinionated friends,
Speaker 1: which I love. Um, I'm trying to be like them.
Speaker 1: But essentially, if I feel like I'm in the way,
Speaker 1: or I might be rejected, or I might do something wrong,
Speaker 1: I try to avoid it altogether. Um. And that includes
Speaker 1: part of my introvertedness is because of that. If I'm
Speaker 1: not explicitly invited and or going with someone who was
Speaker 1: invited as like a a date type of thing, I
Speaker 1: don't want to go. Um. If it's a friend group
Speaker 1: and they purposely left me out, it feels like a rejection.
Speaker 1: It feels like I'm in the way. UM. And I
Speaker 1: have a hard time with that. I I am more
Speaker 1: likely to read into things as being me being in
Speaker 1: the way or me not being wanted as that being
Speaker 1: more likely than anything else. So if I feel like
Speaker 1: there's an in between or I felt like if it
Speaker 1: was an in between things, or like yeah, whatever, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to show up, I'm not going to be there,
Speaker 1: or I feel like I'm being purposely excluded and it's
Speaker 1: fairly my fault. So I think that's That's been a
Speaker 1: recurring theme obviously. UM. When I was doing the religious
Speaker 1: UH types of counseling, we talked about the fear of
Speaker 1: rejection UM, which Jesus is great for that he doesn't
Speaker 1: reject people, so that was nice. That was nice obviously
Speaker 1: for me. Ah, I've started to let go of that
Speaker 1: a little more UM. And I think that's just being
Speaker 1: empowered enough to feel like, okay, even if I'm am
Speaker 1: I'm okay. I've survived UM. But disappointing people or failing
Speaker 1: has become the second language to rejection. So now I've
Speaker 1: pat gone past the rejection, I've gone past being in
Speaker 1: the way of trying. And now if I've tried and
Speaker 1: I don't do well or I'm not perceived as well,
Speaker 1: or if I'm not perceived as a big success, like
Speaker 1: there's not Um, even with this podcast that you and
Speaker 1: I talked about. You know, I told you I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm a giant impostor because I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: so insecure and I'm trying to talk to other people
Speaker 1: about not being insecure. UM. Even now, I'm like, if
Speaker 1: this doesn't do well, it's my fault and I failed,
Speaker 1: which is the same level of UM my career as
Speaker 1: a social work I. You know I talked about that.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't feel like I've made a difference.
Speaker 1: And though I can't see all the things that I know,
Speaker 1: all the PEP talk to it, you're making a difference,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You don't see everything that's changed. It
Speaker 1: still feels like a failure at some point in time. UM,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's my fault and or I
Speaker 1: haven't done enough, which is going back to the health
Speaker 1: guilt thing, right. Yeah, I mean that's certainly important, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're aware of how that's
Speaker 1: a core belief and how and what that's connected to
Speaker 1: I really were the roots of that began. UM. I
Speaker 1: think that that's something that you and I will likely
Speaker 1: need to process some more because it it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: helpful to you. It's not. Yeah, yeah, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to put my own assumptions on that, but I think
Speaker 1: it's safe to say fault. Yeah, everything is your faublem
Speaker 1: is not generally helpfully healthy for anyone. Oddly enough, I
Speaker 1: don't know why, right, because we can't control most things,
Speaker 1: particularly when it involves other people, which is honestly one
Speaker 1: of the first things I tell because that I work
Speaker 1: with you can't control anyone else but your own reactions.
Speaker 1: But yet it's really hard to let go. Oh of course,
Speaker 1: because it had that belief has been reinforced by so
Speaker 1: many people throughout your life, right and experiences, not just people,
Speaker 1: all experiences. Yeah, yeah, we have some more for you listeners,
Speaker 1: but first we're going to pause for one more quick
Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsors. M m hmmmm. And
Speaker 1: just going back, I honestly, the things that I think
Speaker 1: I'm telling you are pretty much what I remember, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because I have done so
Speaker 1: well and trying to push it down. Um. And now
Speaker 1: I get triggered by, as you the body memories or
Speaker 1: the senses that I have that I can't control as easily. UM. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you and I talked about the conferences that I
Speaker 1: go to about the exploited children and having the moments
Speaker 1: of panic because it's too familiar. Um. Some of the
Speaker 1: incidents are so familiar that I can't process it and
Speaker 1: deal with it. Point because I I'm so confused about
Speaker 1: why I would feel that way, because I can't clearly
Speaker 1: remember why. Well, what do you remember about the transition
Speaker 1: from your maternal grandmother's care to the orphanage? Uh? I
Speaker 1: kind of distinctly remember um being picked up from my
Speaker 1: grandmother's and transported to the actual orphanage, in which my
Speaker 1: grandmother telling me I'm going on a trip. I was
Speaker 1: never told that I was actually leaving. UM. What I
Speaker 1: was told was that would be going on a plane
Speaker 1: for a trip. I remember that because I got really
Speaker 1: excited about a airplane ride, because that was such a foreign,
Speaker 1: UM idea, and it was such a like fantasy almost
Speaker 1: to be on a plane. UM. And so I remember
Speaker 1: being told that. I also remember going with this really
Speaker 1: kind woman who was like, I'm going to take you
Speaker 1: and get you hamburger, which I've never had before. UM.
Speaker 1: By the way, that's how you say it with more
Speaker 1: accents in it in Korean, just to give you know,
Speaker 1: because I remember that, remember that, I don't know how
Speaker 1: I remember that, um. And then also getting a banana
Speaker 1: for the first time. Oddly enough, those are the two.
Speaker 1: Much like my life, food motivates me, and that's what
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, I'm going to get a hamburger
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get banana. Um. So I remember getting
Speaker 1: those things and and showing up for the orphanage and
Speaker 1: then that's it. So maybe it was the highlight of that.
Speaker 1: I do and I think this is a part of
Speaker 1: the guilt where I was upset that I couldn't remember
Speaker 1: my grandmother. I do remember her crying. I do remember that,
Speaker 1: and there that told me as a child that she cared,
Speaker 1: and I felt guilty for not remembering her now that
Speaker 1: i'm thinking back on that that she was crying um
Speaker 1: m hmm, because she knew what you leave in signified,
Speaker 1: although it was never communicated to you exactly. And I
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't know when I figured out I
Speaker 1: wasn't going home or going back. I don't think I
Speaker 1: was ever told. I think I just ended up being
Speaker 1: there so long that I figured it out. Invest when
Speaker 1: everything kicked in to start lying, Yeah, to survive with
Speaker 1: the girls who were who had been there a lot
Speaker 1: longer than I had, and they were also trying to survive,
Speaker 1: and a lot of that means losing or being tough,
Speaker 1: and being tough means dominating, and being dominating mean meant uh,
Speaker 1: making sure whoever CapMan knew who was the boss. Essentially.
Speaker 1: I think part of the trauma that I had growing
Speaker 1: up was being bullied in an atmosphere um that was
Speaker 1: all about surviving essentially. So yeah, I honestly can't tell
Speaker 1: you what I realized that I was never going back,
Speaker 1: but that I see the tears, you know, yep of
Speaker 1: because I'm sure you're aware of what when you realize that,
Speaker 1: what that meant, what that must have been like for
Speaker 1: you as a child, right, Uh, Because I actually never
Speaker 1: thought of that either, mm hmm. But I could tell you.
Speaker 1: I do remember being told when I was leaving, so
Speaker 1: I have several you and I talked about several incidents
Speaker 1: in between the fact, um, but I do remember being
Speaker 1: told I was being adopted, and part of that had
Speaker 1: to do with I think the only friend I made
Speaker 1: that point had left before me to go to France.
Speaker 1: If I remember correctly. UM. And so soon after I
Speaker 1: was being told that I would be leaving too, because
Speaker 1: my one and only friend had left. UM and I actually,
Speaker 1: unfortunately I had pictures of her. Actually, we had pictures
Speaker 1: taken together because there was a group of missionaries that
Speaker 1: came in. I think there were American missionaries, if I
Speaker 1: remember correctly. Of course that was very documented, uh, which
Speaker 1: is kind of ironic and funny to be because I
Speaker 1: became one of those missionaries in college that went and
Speaker 1: visited others and other like cat of like homes as such. Ah.
Speaker 1: But I remember being told, I remember taken to Hey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember being taken into a small room, and I
Speaker 1: told you about the two women who are very much
Speaker 1: advocate for me, telling me that I was leaving, and
Speaker 1: them handing me up booklet of the family that I
Speaker 1: was going to live with where I'll go I was
Speaker 1: going home with. And I remember sitting there looking going
Speaker 1: through those pictures, ah, and being excited, also being confused
Speaker 1: because they were really white. UM, and so I hadn't
Speaker 1: been around white people until that point, UM actually at all. Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: so thank you obviously you heard it kind of abruptly
Speaker 1: end because we did have some issues with the internet. However,
Speaker 1: I felt it was still a good ending because it's
Speaker 1: a process. So obviously it was one therapy session and
Speaker 1: we are only starting. I am only starting, And I
Speaker 1: will tell you, out of the five years of therapy
Speaker 1: that I've gone through a LASSA five I'm estimating times
Speaker 1: I've been in therapy. Um, this is the first time
Speaker 1: I've been able to concentrate on my past. Previously, I
Speaker 1: had so much trauma on a daily basis, whether it's
Speaker 1: death of kids, whether it's triggered because of UM, some
Speaker 1: type of training, all of those things. Because social work
Speaker 1: is a difficult field. To my social workers out there,
Speaker 1: I'm here for you, I got you. But it has
Speaker 1: finally come to the point that I can actually face
Speaker 1: those and address these moments. And it's been thirty something
Speaker 1: years that I had to even think about it, and
Speaker 1: I actually any you texted me, asked me how it went.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it was rough, true story, And
Speaker 1: that's the thing is it was rough, And UM, I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you these are the moments that it's
Speaker 1: gonna be hard for me. I'm not gonna come out
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm healed. I'm not gonna come out like
Speaker 1: everything's okay. I'm gonna come out really raw and really vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I went home to my friend was like, I need
Speaker 1: a hug. I need, which is you don't know me,
Speaker 1: but I'm not a touchy feely person. That is not
Speaker 1: my persona. UM. And being independent, being strong, being sarcastic,
Speaker 1: um cynical, that's my thing. So having these moments of
Speaker 1: like I cried on air or on the mic, holy crap,
Speaker 1: or I had to go home and sale someone I
Speaker 1: need you to be with me right now because this
Speaker 1: was really overwhelming. Um, and it's okay. For me. It
Speaker 1: was a big breakthrough to be able to talk about
Speaker 1: some of the things that I didn't think on, and
Speaker 1: some of the things I didn't think on but actually
Speaker 1: affect my relationships today, affect um, how I process things
Speaker 1: or even affect my relationship with my family, affect the
Speaker 1: way I perceive people, and some of the reasons I
Speaker 1: may have a successful relationship or an unsuccessful relationship. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: even though it is as intense as it sounded, and
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be very um what's the word, it's unfulfilling,
Speaker 1: because you're not going to hear the end of this,
Speaker 1: but we will come back and tell you how it goes.
Speaker 1: It's okay. And I went through a moment. I had
Speaker 1: a moment to digest and I had to be able
Speaker 1: to say this is where I need to be, and
Speaker 1: vulnerability is okay. Also, you all may have heard me
Speaker 1: stumble through I'm trying to get out of my chair.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. The damn headphone. I just want you
Speaker 1: to know trapped me. And I was by myself and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna live here now, and so
Speaker 1: I was fighting very hard. Look, it felt like it
Speaker 1: took two hours. I know it's probably like five minutes,
Speaker 1: but I was like, what the hell is this again?
Speaker 1: That may be also in exaceration, but these headphones were
Speaker 1: trying to kill me. I want you that's that. This
Speaker 1: is exactly what happened. No one saw this. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying this is what happened. So we do have these
Speaker 1: studios are haunted. So I'm going to say it is
Speaker 1: um but you know what, all of that was necessary?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I'm glad. I hope for you that
Speaker 1: you weren't bored by it or you weren't overwhelmed by it. Um.
Speaker 1: I hope that it lets you know that it's okay
Speaker 1: to be there. And I do want you to know this,
Speaker 1: and I'm okay with sharing this with you because I
Speaker 1: think it's important that we get haaling, and sometimes healing
Speaker 1: doesn't happen until much, much, much later. Yes, And UM,
Speaker 1: I hope that for listeners, UM who were like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: listening to somebody's therapy session sounds like the most boring
Speaker 1: hour of my life, I understand, but I hope that
Speaker 1: you did find them valuable or in some way informative,
Speaker 1: because I do think and I I used to be
Speaker 1: this person who thought like therapy was a waste of time.
Speaker 1: But we we really appreciate you, UM as we've been
Speaker 1: going through this, this arc of trauma. UM, this is
Speaker 1: a big part of it, and it has been for
Speaker 1: us personal right, very personal. So I think again, just
Speaker 1: to reiterate back to why we wanted to do this,
Speaker 1: and I know we've gotten really good feedback, and thank
Speaker 1: you for those who have and thank you for those
Speaker 1: who have stuck with us in this journey because it
Speaker 1: is unusual and the biggest thing we wanted to relay
Speaker 1: is that it happens, and it's more personal than you know.
Speaker 1: And for those who don't understand again why we come
Speaker 1: forward or why we don't come forward, or why it's
Speaker 1: so traumatic, or why it affects us on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: even if it was thirty years ago, that it's important
Speaker 1: that we discuss it and it's important that we acknowledge it. Yeah, yep, Um,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate all of you, all of your listeners. Yes, um.
Speaker 1: If you would like to emails if you have any questions, um,
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff Works.
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff
Speaker 1: podcast and on Instagram at stuff But I've Never Told
Speaker 1: You talk to me. Yes. Samantha has been helping you,
Speaker 1: so that's awesome. Come talk to me. Yes, and thank
Speaker 1: you Samantha for joining us. Thanks to Dr Coleman for
Speaker 1: being to this very unusual request, this unusual thing. Yes.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our superproducer Andrew I'm sorry helping us all
Speaker 1: the way through. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You's a production of I Heart Radios
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcast from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.