Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff I never
Speaker 1: told your production of I Heart Media and how that
Speaker 1: works listeners. Here we are at the end of our
Speaker 1: mini series slash like full blown series and of on
Speaker 1: Trauma UM and yes, thanks to Samantha for being with
Speaker 1: me on this journey. Thanks guys for let me be
Speaker 1: part of it. Yeah, it's been Um, it's been a lot.
Speaker 1: There's a lot. Yeah. We talked about grooming, what trauma
Speaker 1: looks like, how it feels bad, coping good, coping, the
Speaker 1: literal cost of coming forward, rape kits, trauma form training,
Speaker 1: we did therapy on air. We talked about empathy. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been quite the journey. And so for our final episode,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about becoming a survivor what that
Speaker 1: can look like. Because while Samantha and I are in
Speaker 1: different stages, we are both in this overall phase and
Speaker 1: for listeners out there in different phases, we do want
Speaker 1: you to know that things get better. As cliche as
Speaker 1: it sounds, as I know someone who's heard that and
Speaker 1: you're thinking, no, never, it does, It passes. It's just
Speaker 1: every day it's another day behind you. Yeah, and it,
Speaker 1: like we've said many many times, it is not a
Speaker 1: straight line. UM trigger warnings for this episode sexual assaults, abuse,
Speaker 1: and substance abuse. I don't think, yeah, but we should
Speaker 1: add in their UM a little bit conversation about rape
Speaker 1: and domestic violence. Okay, UM, So I want to ask you, Samantha,
Speaker 1: what does it mean being a survivor? Well, I think, honestly,
Speaker 1: for me, being a survivor is that I'm fixed or
Speaker 1: that I'm completely helled. Um, is that I know I've
Speaker 1: claimed my trauma and I'm able to recognize it more
Speaker 1: and more and able to use coping skills when I need,
Speaker 1: and knowing when I need community help me through. So
Speaker 1: I think overall, surviving means uh, just knowing where I'm
Speaker 1: at and still claiming myself because a part of the trauma,
Speaker 1: part of the abuse is um, someone takes away your
Speaker 1: humanity or takes away your safety. And so when I
Speaker 1: feel like I I understand where I've been and it's
Speaker 1: not that I'm okay, it's not that I'm fixed again,
Speaker 1: but it's that I can recognize who I am and
Speaker 1: I'm not defined by the trauma and I'm not defined
Speaker 1: by what someone did to me. But I'm more of okay.
Speaker 1: This is a part of my life, and I can
Speaker 1: recognize when the bad things happen, and I can I
Speaker 1: also use these bad things for better Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that was lovely. UM. And I do want to say
Speaker 1: before I go into mind that I read some folks
Speaker 1: prefer not to be called a survivor at all, um,
Speaker 1: to like move past that stage completely. And it's all
Speaker 1: about giving you control of your narrative because you've lost
Speaker 1: control at one point in your life. And for me,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I've learned through doing this,
Speaker 1: because I'm actually very new to this whole thing, um,
Speaker 1: being able to recognize things, and because I feel like
Speaker 1: before a lot of things were happening that were out
Speaker 1: of my control and I thought they were in my control,
Speaker 1: but they weren't. So part of becoming a survivor to
Speaker 1: me is seeing those things for what they are and
Speaker 1: being able to to recognize them and control them. And UM,
Speaker 1: being open about it about my experiences in the really
Speaker 1: confusing way that I feel about a lot of them,
Speaker 1: UM hopefully make others who have gone through similar things
Speaker 1: feel less alone or feel like there is I don't.
Speaker 1: It's so strange because UM, so many of you have
Speaker 1: written in and it's been wonderful. UM. And just knowing
Speaker 1: that people do connect to things that you feel are
Speaker 1: very isolated or specific to you. UM. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: healing isn't easy, but it is possible to have a
Speaker 1: fulfilling life that is not defined by your traumatic experiences. UM.
Speaker 1: It's being able to recognize what stems from your trauma
Speaker 1: and deal with it in a healthy in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't, sometimes I do, but I try, And
Speaker 1: my average is better now than it was, I will say. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And as we've gone through this series, UM, I like
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen episodes and now probably more than that, you've
Speaker 1: heard a lot of voices and we wanted to include
Speaker 1: some of their thoughts on this question to show you
Speaker 1: some different ways that becoming a survivor can look UM.
Speaker 1: And also as you're listening to this, remember you don't
Speaker 1: owe anyone anything. UM. You're going to hear examples of
Speaker 1: what people have done, what they do, but we encourage
Speaker 1: you not to feel guilty that you're not doing more, UM,
Speaker 1: because these things that we're going to talk about aren't
Speaker 1: for everybody. Everyday acts of courage to right and in
Speaker 1: general being a survivor. Once again is reclaiming yourself and
Speaker 1: reclaiming your strength and reclaiming even the weaknesses and the vulnerability.
Speaker 1: So it's not about all the actions. And I know
Speaker 1: if you listen to myut therapy, I seem to like
Speaker 1: harp on that, but that's my own thing. Don't don't
Speaker 1: wear that, but it does. It is also recogniza that
Speaker 1: I have a community once again. Andy and I bonded
Speaker 1: over this pretty deeply, I think. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: like last week we had a moment of be like,
Speaker 1: I love you and I loves everything we're doing right now. Um,
Speaker 1: so well, I mean just saying that in itself is
Speaker 1: an amazing connection. So it's not about what you've done,
Speaker 1: It's about how you claimed it and who you are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, kind of going off of that, I honestly
Speaker 1: was really embarrassed about what I talked about my therapy session.
Speaker 1: So I love that so many people wrote in We're
Speaker 1: like I feel this. It's things like that. It can
Speaker 1: be something as quote heavy quotes small as that. Um.
Speaker 1: A part of it too can be defining what justice
Speaker 1: looks like for you, and that's come up in several
Speaker 1: of our interviews. It might be a civil case versus
Speaker 1: a criminal case. It can look several different ways, right,
Speaker 1: And I think it's very important today with a tone
Speaker 1: of the social climate, that we look at how it's
Speaker 1: become a fight for those who identify as female, I mean,
Speaker 1: with the me too era and with the people who
Speaker 1: are speaking out and being more active justice can be
Speaker 1: seen as um win or who define themselves as females
Speaker 1: taking back their story and moving forward with being there
Speaker 1: for one another and learning to be an advocate in
Speaker 1: an ally for each other. And I think it's a
Speaker 1: really important remind you guys. I know there's been some
Speaker 1: questions like how does this relate to feminism. The fact
Speaker 1: of the matter is, when we look at the overall art,
Speaker 1: people don't believe women. We men sometimes don't believe women.
Speaker 1: And part of the reason we wanted to do this
Speaker 1: and we wanted to talk about this is because first
Speaker 1: and foremost, we don't It should never go out of light.
Speaker 1: It should always be at the forefront and conversation. I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I talked about the fact that's just two
Speaker 1: new recent cases where the perpetrators got off probably pretty
Speaker 1: much good free um and it's not that they didn't
Speaker 1: believe that women they just didn't feel like it was
Speaker 1: bad enough. Taking someone's dignity is not bad enough to
Speaker 1: serve time, which is absurd and injustice. But the problem,
Speaker 1: the overall arc is this is where we learned to
Speaker 1: become friends and each other's allies. And the fact is
Speaker 1: we should believe women and that's the overall and how
Speaker 1: do we go forward in healing? M hm. Yeah. For
Speaker 1: a lot of survivors, advocacy is a big part of
Speaker 1: surviving and we've been kind of touching on that a
Speaker 1: lot too. Um, whether it's talking about your experience on
Speaker 1: a podcast. Maybe, um, are going into social work, I
Speaker 1: don't recommend it, maybe, or activism, all of the above.
Speaker 1: There are so many ways to advocate UM. Sexual assault
Speaker 1: counselor instituting trauma and formed training, victim advocacy, providing or
Speaker 1: creating resources, educating, donating, volunteering at a nonprofit, giving a
Speaker 1: space for survivors to share their stories, or an art
Speaker 1: project that raises awareness. Right. Um, Actually, I was gonna
Speaker 1: jump in because I know we're about to talk about artists,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to throw in something that one
Speaker 1: of our listeners sent me citizen Instagram message about a
Speaker 1: woman named Rachel Elizbeth Cargol, which she is an activist.
Speaker 1: She's a phenomenal writer. She is a powerhouse essentially, and
Speaker 1: she created a go fund me um called Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Women and Girls. And I think it's fantastic just
Speaker 1: to kind of give off her story. UM, she was
Speaker 1: talking about having the privilege of getting access to healthcare, UM,
Speaker 1: and that her belief is that black women and girls
Speaker 1: desert of access to healing and the planet Earth needs
Speaker 1: the ripples that will form from their healing. UM. And
Speaker 1: for her birthday, she did this whole go fund me
Speaker 1: um and if you are interested a Black women who
Speaker 1: have not been able to pay for the therapy sessions,
Speaker 1: you can click on Therapy Support fund apparently that's on
Speaker 1: the go fund me page and it again we go
Speaker 1: funding pages Therapy for Black Women and Girls and they
Speaker 1: raise a lot of money, which is fantastic and I'm
Speaker 1: really sad that it takes a Go fund Me page
Speaker 1: to get there, um, but it's phenomenal that a community
Speaker 1: comes together and if you guys want to have a
Speaker 1: conversation about therapean black women, that could be a whole
Speaker 1: other session. And I think it's really important that we
Speaker 1: do talk about that eventually, But I just love that
Speaker 1: this woman, who is a powerhouse and herself, used her
Speaker 1: name and notoriety to do something big. Yeah, that's that's amazing. UM.
Speaker 1: A couple of episodes ago, you heard some from artists
Speaker 1: and activists Jessica Caldis, and she spoke a lot about
Speaker 1: healthy coping, but a lot of what she said had
Speaker 1: to do with what being a survivor can look like,
Speaker 1: in particular through helping pass laws or through advocating around that. UM.
Speaker 1: And this is one of the biggest things that you
Speaker 1: can do pushing for change in your local area, UM,
Speaker 1: or your state or your federal but local is UM.
Speaker 1: I think it's often forgotten. And she told us about
Speaker 1: how she got involved and what it looks like. I
Speaker 1: am a practicing artist here in Atlanta, and UM what
Speaker 1: that means is that I make work UM in the
Speaker 1: studio and also in public spaces, and I show it
Speaker 1: all over the city and theoretically the world. But UM,
Speaker 1: for me, what that also means is because UM, a
Speaker 1: lot of the work I'm making is dealing with various
Speaker 1: social issues. So I'm trying to tie that sort of
Speaker 1: visual language to actionable change, and so a lot of
Speaker 1: my practice includes policy work and advocacy in the communities,
Speaker 1: UM that are affected by the issues I'm kind of
Speaker 1: talking about so UM. After a couple of years of
Speaker 1: primarily working with domestic violence, I found myself like really
Speaker 1: trying to spread out and talk about other things. And
Speaker 1: right around this same time was when Athena's Warehouse asked
Speaker 1: me to speak at that movie UM. And I was
Speaker 1: asked to speak because of the work I did around
Speaker 1: domestic violence, and I think it was just assumed that
Speaker 1: I would know something about sexual assault, which was what
Speaker 1: this movie specifically spoke. And I don't think that the
Speaker 1: organizer knew that I was a survivor myself, I had
Speaker 1: at some point shared the fact that I was a
Speaker 1: survivor and UM, and it was honestly the first time
Speaker 1: I had shared publicly in any kind of forum that
Speaker 1: I had had been raped. And I can't remember even
Speaker 1: how much I shared. I like, honestly don't remember that
Speaker 1: much about the moment. I just was like and I
Speaker 1: remember backing off a little bit UM from it at
Speaker 1: that at that time. UM. But as a result, the
Speaker 1: organizer knew that I was a survivor and a couple
Speaker 1: of years later, she was working on a bill in
Speaker 1: the Georgia General Assembly and the bill was um the Moniker.
Speaker 1: The name for the bill was called the rape Kit Bill.
Speaker 1: It was just the H seven, that's it. And basically
Speaker 1: the bill was being stalled for no really good reason
Speaker 1: because it had bipartisan support and they needed someone who
Speaker 1: was willing to speak as a survivor um to the
Speaker 1: to the need for the bill. So the same person
Speaker 1: who asked me to speak of this movie screening asked
Speaker 1: me to come and speak to legislators about my experience. UM.
Speaker 1: But actually prior to that, she and I wrote an
Speaker 1: op ed which was I guess the second time I
Speaker 1: wrote or said anything publicly about my own assault and
Speaker 1: so um, and then I got published in the a GC,
Speaker 1: so it was very public. And then I went into
Speaker 1: the General Assembly and I talked to a bunch of
Speaker 1: like Republican, old white male legislators about what happened to me,
Speaker 1: and then we passed the rape Kit Bill, and which
Speaker 1: was amazing. It was kind of concurrently that I was
Speaker 1: also starting to make work about like artwork about sexual assaults,
Speaker 1: and I was talking really generally about it, like using
Speaker 1: statistics to make the work. And it was from that
Speaker 1: point that I shared my story in the op ed
Speaker 1: and in the general assimbly that I started to make
Speaker 1: work about my own experience, which was a really different
Speaker 1: place for me to be for sure. UM And since
Speaker 1: then it's just been a continued process. I worked on
Speaker 1: other bills that affect sexual assault survivors, I've made other work,
Speaker 1: I've worked with other survivors and UM and it's just
Speaker 1: been sort of it's just become a part of the
Speaker 1: way I functioned in the world. The year following UM,
Speaker 1: the rape Kit Bill UM in two thousand and seventeen
Speaker 1: bill was proposed. It was h B fifty one and UM.
Speaker 1: It essentially was a mandatory reporting bill for sex sho
Speaker 1: assault survivors on college campuses UM and it was much
Speaker 1: trickier than the rape Kit Bill. Like, honestly, the rape
Speaker 1: Kit Bill was work, but it was it had Bipatterson's support.
Speaker 1: Everyone understands what rape kits are and are supposed to do.
Speaker 1: They understand why they should be processed and why them
Speaker 1: languishing and like a storage unit is like inappropriate. That's
Speaker 1: not difficult, but mandatory reporting is so much trickier, right.
Speaker 1: I remember just remembering this bill because everybody was like,
Speaker 1: it sounds great, exactly, don't you want to go talk
Speaker 1: to the police that this is a better thing. We're
Speaker 1: going to prosecute more this way, right, But yeah, And
Speaker 1: that that's the thing is it sounds really good, especially
Speaker 1: to folks who haven't experienced trauma or don't really understand
Speaker 1: how sexual assault works or looks in the real world.
Speaker 1: And so it was this thing where we learned about
Speaker 1: the bill before it even really like got like moving. UM.
Speaker 1: So I was working with a team of women. UM.
Speaker 1: I was actually a part of the Georgia Women's Policy
Speaker 1: Institute through the y w c A that year, and
Speaker 1: so we were already aware of the fact that this
Speaker 1: bill was going to come forward, and so we were prepared,
Speaker 1: we were ready to go, and we ended up working
Speaker 1: with student survivors and a whole host of different people.
Speaker 1: But what it meant is that we had to be
Speaker 1: tracking this bill from the beginning, UM. And we had
Speaker 1: to testify against it multiple like every time it was
Speaker 1: like taken to another level. We had to testify against
Speaker 1: it so many times. So when you say testify, you
Speaker 1: mean it can give you a personal experience to try
Speaker 1: to counter. Yeah, basically, the bills moved through committees, right,
Speaker 1: and so the first committee or whatever committee it's in,
Speaker 1: you know, they have to have a hearing, and usually
Speaker 1: the hearings are open to public comment um and so um,
Speaker 1: and usually it's like anybody can comment, but there was
Speaker 1: so much media and weirdness around this bill that they
Speaker 1: limited it. Every every hearing was limited. So um. But
Speaker 1: because I was working with this group that was kind
Speaker 1: of like working behind the scenes, I ended up getting
Speaker 1: to testify like I think four times against the bill.
Speaker 1: And so it literally you go into room, there's this
Speaker 1: panel of legislators, often most of whom are old white men,
Speaker 1: and you're sitting in front of them, and you're telling
Speaker 1: them the story of why they should not pass this bill.
Speaker 1: And so what we're trying to explain, often in less
Speaker 1: than three minutes, is why mandatory reporting isn't as good
Speaker 1: as it sounds. And that's really difficult, especially if you're
Speaker 1: an old white man man who trusts the criminal justice system.
Speaker 1: So so it's like, you know, trying to explain that
Speaker 1: mandatory reporting has statistically been proven to actually reduce the
Speaker 1: rates of reporting of like victims coming forward and telling
Speaker 1: their stories so that they can get help. Um, that's
Speaker 1: something that people just don't believe, even though it's true,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to explain that many people might fear
Speaker 1: going to the police because of past experiences, or because
Speaker 1: of their personal identity, or because of the circumstances of
Speaker 1: when they might have been assaulted. Um. Annie and I
Speaker 1: also go into a lot of statistics again about why
Speaker 1: people don't want to come forward, and even when they
Speaker 1: do come forward, how much trauma it causes. And I'm
Speaker 1: guessing for you to have to testify and repeatedly have
Speaker 1: to advocate for yourself in this manner, it's traumatic. Um.
Speaker 1: In some ways, I mean I thought it would be
Speaker 1: more traumatic than it was UM to be to be honest,
Speaker 1: In some ways, it was really empowering because I felt UM,
Speaker 1: because I felt really confident, like I had, I mean,
Speaker 1: I had an incredible support team behind me, and that
Speaker 1: really helped. Like if I had been there like on
Speaker 1: my own, I probably wouldn't would have been a very
Speaker 1: different story. But I was there with this group of
Speaker 1: people who believed in what I had to say, and like,
Speaker 1: we're support there to support me, and we're very much
Speaker 1: like if you need to get out of there, you
Speaker 1: get out of there. Um. But then at the same time,
Speaker 1: like you give your like two and a half three
Speaker 1: minute testimony, and then these these men ask you questions
Speaker 1: that are super obtuse and often like I hope they
Speaker 1: don't know, like but often like sort of victim blamey
Speaker 1: or a little shamy, you know, like like kind of
Speaker 1: like tapping into all those things that victims are completely
Speaker 1: scared of or worried about if they are going to
Speaker 1: tell their story. Right, one of the proponents of the
Speaker 1: bill kept talking about false reporting and how all of
Speaker 1: these boys we're being accused falsely and they were they
Speaker 1: needed a fair shake and uh and you know, like
Speaker 1: I someone one of them got the legislators asked me
Speaker 1: about that, and I was like, well, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty much reported like six percent, but often really
Speaker 1: probably even less of reported rapes are false. And you know,
Speaker 1: then trying to explain that just because someone's not convicted
Speaker 1: of rape doesn't mean they didn't do it. Um, there's
Speaker 1: like all these nuances that people don't get. And then
Speaker 1: literally the follow up question was, well, don't you worry
Speaker 1: about these boys who are falsely accused, and I just
Speaker 1: and I you know, it's like not the I mean,
Speaker 1: I I think I understand the question, but I also
Speaker 1: am like, but why aren't you worried about all of
Speaker 1: the people we know who are like getting assaulted and
Speaker 1: can't do anything about it or are too scared to
Speaker 1: do anything about it. You know, like, that's a fact
Speaker 1: because the criminal punishments in the criminal cases have a
Speaker 1: higher up standard of proof and burden and thus have
Speaker 1: serious and like much more far reaching consequences, whereas civil cases,
Speaker 1: the burden of proof, the standards for like you know,
Speaker 1: getting those winning those cases is very different. But but
Speaker 1: that's because the the sort of the end game of
Speaker 1: those cases also serves different purpose purposes. It's often like
Speaker 1: by financial or protection or sort of like these other
Speaker 1: wrap around things, right, And Um, the easiest way to
Speaker 1: sort of explain the fact that we have like a
Speaker 1: campus system that has a lower burden of proof. Um,
Speaker 1: first is this criminal system that should not be a
Speaker 1: requirement by any means is because they will will always
Speaker 1: do different things. You know, students need to be able
Speaker 1: to say this is the right course of action action
Speaker 1: for me and for survivors That's huge because to say
Speaker 1: to a survivor, you have to do this thing to
Speaker 1: get help or else you don't get anything, is like
Speaker 1: a complete like continue like victimization, Like you're you're continuing
Speaker 1: to take away their agency and re traumatizing them. And
Speaker 1: literally the whole thing of rape is like like stealing
Speaker 1: someone's agency. So doing that is pretty bad. So it's
Speaker 1: like making sure that survivors have options that fit their
Speaker 1: needs and where they are in terms of like dealing
Speaker 1: with their own trauma, like is so vital. So having
Speaker 1: a campus system that is different, has a different burden, approve,
Speaker 1: has different outcomes to protect the student's education. Like that's
Speaker 1: so important and it's very you know, some people might
Speaker 1: do that. Some people might be like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to the police and get this guy arrested. Some
Speaker 1: people might be like I need both. Some people like
Speaker 1: I don't need either, And that's the only person who
Speaker 1: needs to make that decision is the survivor. It was
Speaker 1: partly like making artwork and like doing all these healthy
Speaker 1: things and then like doing advocacy work that ended up
Speaker 1: really helping me get to a more positive space and
Speaker 1: like a more like a greater ability to handle what
Speaker 1: had happened to me. So that's one thing or one
Speaker 1: avenue being a survivor can look like. UM a part
Speaker 1: of what it can look like. We have some more
Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have a quick break
Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, m and we're back,
Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor. Another part of surviving is learning to
Speaker 1: let go, or if you can't let go, at the
Speaker 1: very least, recognize a lot of the guilt and self
Speaker 1: blame and negative thoughts that come with the surviving of
Speaker 1: a sexual assault. UM. Women are already more likely to
Speaker 1: have negative self image and body image issues in general,
Speaker 1: and going through something dramatic like we discussed in our
Speaker 1: episode Unhealthy coping can amplify those thoughts or create them.
Speaker 1: In our Good Coping episode, you also heard from Michelle
Speaker 1: and Kenya of Outdoor Journal Tour and We Have to Heal,
Speaker 1: and Michelle said something that really resonated and can be
Speaker 1: a piece of healing. I think one of my favorite
Speaker 1: UM is the body apology UM. I know again, as women,
Speaker 1: I feel like we have like these standards that we
Speaker 1: feel like we have to live up to or how
Speaker 1: we should look, and we're not even as always just physically,
Speaker 1: but you know sometimes we're um, you know, wanting to
Speaker 1: be more or whatever, and you know, it's just an
Speaker 1: apology to your body because look at all of the
Speaker 1: things that your body has done for you, all the
Speaker 1: places that your body has taken you. You know. But
Speaker 1: that's probably one of my favorites because it's something that's
Speaker 1: very um at least prevalent for me in my life.
Speaker 1: So just stopping for a moment and pausing and you know,
Speaker 1: apologizing for you know, calling myself fat or you know,
Speaker 1: giving myself a hard time for this or for that,
Speaker 1: or you know, wishing I could run faster, hike longer,
Speaker 1: or whatever, and just apologizing for those things and being
Speaker 1: grateful for everything that it does for me. This is
Speaker 1: something I'm working really hard on showing myself some compassion.
Speaker 1: I have treated my my body and myself without care,
Speaker 1: without compassion for years, and I've really punished it, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying hard to change that. And again with my
Speaker 1: therapy sessition, I think it's fairly evident I struggle with
Speaker 1: being accepted and wanted and body issues as an obvious
Speaker 1: insecurity and hearing Michelle speak about apologizing to your body
Speaker 1: with such a beautiful sentiment. I literally had to stop
Speaker 1: bar and be like, oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 1: And according to an article relating to women's self esteem,
Speaker 1: it is very heavily linked that those with low self
Speaker 1: esteem will more likely be able to be groomed as
Speaker 1: well as likely being able to leave an abusive situation.
Speaker 1: Um and we know, according to the dust studies that
Speaker 1: they've completed, that that overt of women would stay they
Speaker 1: have low self esteem, which is honestly a lot lower
Speaker 1: than I thought, because most of the women I meet
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I don't like this about myself. But
Speaker 1: in that of women that actually are a part of
Speaker 1: this opt out of important events because the way they look,
Speaker 1: and I know I did too, Like I think I
Speaker 1: went and missed the funeral because I felt so bad
Speaker 1: about myself. Of course, depression in itself was that, but
Speaker 1: that was my excuse that I was not fit to
Speaker 1: go out and be around people. And you know, I
Speaker 1: feel as I'm getting older and learning from my trauma,
Speaker 1: become more aware of the dangers of my insecurities of
Speaker 1: my body. And again not to say I've resolved it,
Speaker 1: because I still wear a lot of black and I
Speaker 1: love my cartagans that cover everything. But I mean, we
Speaker 1: struggle with it every day, and it is important to
Speaker 1: note things like respecting your body, apologizing for being the
Speaker 1: abusive to your own body. Um, she kind of stays.
Speaker 1: And the fact is it does affect um how you
Speaker 1: live your life, and it does affect whether or not
Speaker 1: you can have the strength to leave a bad situation.
Speaker 1: And something else to keep in mind that we've said
Speaker 1: and it's worth repeating, is that some days will be
Speaker 1: better than others. Um. Advocating itself can be traumatizing or
Speaker 1: at the very least difficult, it can be discouraging. But
Speaker 1: knowing that and allowing for it, and allowing yourself to
Speaker 1: set boundaries and to keep yourself care in mind, it's
Speaker 1: a really big part of this. In a rape Kit episode,
Speaker 1: you heard from rape Kit researcher Renee Shelby and we
Speaker 1: asked her how she coped some days you're just like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about this is I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this. I'm gonna you know, do you
Speaker 1: do anything else? Like I will watch a dumb movie,
Speaker 1: I will go get a massage at ritual bodywork, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just any or clean my house like, there's
Speaker 1: just some days where I have to completely block it out.
Speaker 1: I don't know. But when you hear those stories too,
Speaker 1: like Swanna hall story, you know, I read that and
Speaker 1: I just get so infuriated that I'm like, what can
Speaker 1: I do? Because this is just so unjust and no
Speaker 1: one should have to go through this that it kind
Speaker 1: of puts a fire in me where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: I can, If I can handle it, I should. I
Speaker 1: should do it. Nothing compared to what she went through.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what that feels like. Like you've
Speaker 1: been saying, Samantha, community is a big part of this too,
Speaker 1: and time that's a key part of healing. Telling someone,
Speaker 1: trusting someone with your story is powerful. Rebecca, whose story
Speaker 1: you heard in our episode around rape kits, she spoke
Speaker 1: to this, I think that just space away from it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it is very helpful and has always been
Speaker 1: very helpful for me. UM. I think beyond that, sharing
Speaker 1: my story with close friends of mine and family members
Speaker 1: has been completely invaluable because I um, I think and
Speaker 1: of course now with me too, it's a little more
Speaker 1: it's out there. You know, Hopefully people more people recognize
Speaker 1: how many people that sexual assault and rape has affected UM.
Speaker 1: But I think prior to you know, prior to that,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you know, you are supposed to feel
Speaker 1: ashamed and you're supposed to not tell anyone, and that
Speaker 1: feeling of being alone is so um it just it's
Speaker 1: just horrible because you feel so ashamed because you're like,
Speaker 1: oh God, no one else has gone through this, you know.
Speaker 1: And so for the longest time, it was good for
Speaker 1: me because I was like, cool, my parents know that
Speaker 1: this happened to me, and like they love me anyway,
Speaker 1: you know. And UM, I think just knowing that like
Speaker 1: that didn't define, um, anything beyond beyond what happened, it
Speaker 1: was very helpful for me. I also, I'm a very
Speaker 1: creative person, so I'm I'm the type that like I
Speaker 1: have to write things down, I have to like get
Speaker 1: things out, um. And like I wrote a play about
Speaker 1: my experience, and that was very helpful because I was
Speaker 1: able to kind of process my trauma that way. UM.
Speaker 1: And I co wrote it with a very good friend
Speaker 1: of mine who also knows that that happened to me,
Speaker 1: So that was very helpful because she also was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really like messed up that all this happened
Speaker 1: to you, you know, UM, And I think just talking
Speaker 1: about it for me has been very helpful. Um. Now
Speaker 1: that's that. I don't think that's helpful for everyone and
Speaker 1: everyone's experience, um, but for my personal experience, just feeling
Speaker 1: like I can talk about it is um more than anything. Uh,
Speaker 1: it just is encouraging to me and it has helped
Speaker 1: me process the trauma a little more. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: ever really feel triggered by the me too thing. If anything,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's a little more. It makes
Speaker 1: me feel a little more empowered and like I have
Speaker 1: a little more agency because it's not just a single voice. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you're like I think they use that coup already,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're right, but it's worth repeating to Yeah,
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. I know it's a difficult listen, but
Speaker 1: it's so important of this incident and research really just
Speaker 1: blew me away, honestly, and I wish people who continue
Speaker 1: to doubt why this movement is important would actually listen. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One thing a lot of you have written in about
Speaker 1: is what to do if your significant other or friend
Speaker 1: or family members somebody you care about is a survivor.
Speaker 1: How to be supportive, and I know that this can
Speaker 1: be difficult. I've been on both sides. Honestly, the biggest
Speaker 1: thing is open minded listening, offering support and not to
Speaker 1: tute our own horn, but but kind of this thing
Speaker 1: educated finding resources. UM. A lot of times we feel
Speaker 1: that we have to do something for that other person
Speaker 1: to make things better. I understand that feeling completely, but
Speaker 1: that can be a way of making it about you
Speaker 1: if you're not careful. UM. Not always, but really listening
Speaker 1: is often enough and for the times it's not. To
Speaker 1: have a plan for how best to help. Of course,
Speaker 1: if you suspect or no self harm or suicidal ideation,
Speaker 1: is that play, that's a different story, requiring professional help. Um.
Speaker 1: But another thing you need to keep your own mental
Speaker 1: health and mind too. It's okay to set boundaries. UM.
Speaker 1: There's someone in my life that I had to do
Speaker 1: that with and I felt really guilty about it at first,
Speaker 1: but in the long run it was better for our relationship,
Speaker 1: right And honestly, to be so support To be an
Speaker 1: ally is to be there even if when they don't
Speaker 1: want you to be there, just letting them know you are.
Speaker 1: They're checking in on them. Like I said, before just
Speaker 1: sitting with them. That can be enough and above all
Speaker 1: else and once again, believe them, believe us. That's more
Speaker 1: than you know that that opens a huge door when
Speaker 1: someone says I believe you. Yeah, Um, I I get
Speaker 1: from our discourse, our public discourse. UM, it's hard to
Speaker 1: explain fully how frightening it is that you will tell
Speaker 1: someone something and they won't believe you. And it's this
Speaker 1: thing that is so traumatic. UM. So yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: value we traumatizes as a person honestly to not be believed,
Speaker 1: has the self doubt of like oh man, maybe they're right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's just so simple just listen, just believe. We
Speaker 1: have a little bit more in this episode. UM, but
Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor m HM, and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1: And one thing we wanted to include at this the
Speaker 1: end of this pick many serious thing, Like we said,
Speaker 1: so many, so many of you have written in with
Speaker 1: amazing things and it's been we can't even express how
Speaker 1: much we'd appreciated love um seeing the tweets and seeing
Speaker 1: the Instagram messages about how they related or have they
Speaker 1: been able to use this as a way of empowering them.
Speaker 1: One listener sent in about how she was able to
Speaker 1: talk to her workers to take out a picture about
Speaker 1: for an example of rape, because she would wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about the different types of trauma, which was awesome.
Speaker 1: And then another woman I love, she had a string
Speaker 1: of tweets about how she had an issue with an
Speaker 1: office worker and I'm feeling empowered and then feeling her doubt.
Speaker 1: It was just a beautiful um and just knowing that
Speaker 1: she was able to stand up once again, if you're listening,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Just being able to face your perpetrator and
Speaker 1: not write down but even if you did, still okay,
Speaker 1: because you were able to face them, and then you
Speaker 1: will be You were able to pass that, you were
Speaker 1: able to opie on that, and that's beautiful and that
Speaker 1: takes a lot of strength. I know this because I
Speaker 1: remember UM just having a moment with which I had
Speaker 1: an incident and um elementary school and the dude was around,
Speaker 1: and dude, UM, it's still around, and every time I
Speaker 1: see him, I just wanted to throw up, honestly, But
Speaker 1: the fact is I've survived it. I see him, and
Speaker 1: I've moved on and I've continued my life and that's
Speaker 1: a way that I've won. And I did also get
Speaker 1: a story, UM. And I had kind of reached out
Speaker 1: to a few people to share their stories, and this
Speaker 1: woman sent one who UM her story is amazing and
Speaker 1: and just to kind of kind of go around. And
Speaker 1: she experienced both domestic violence and she had gone through
Speaker 1: rape at a younger age. UM. And she talks about
Speaker 1: going through therapy off and on from eighteen and she's
Speaker 1: in our thirties now, UM. And apparently she's been doing
Speaker 1: m d R, which she said has resolved UM her trauma,
Speaker 1: as the impact had been pretty hard on her life
Speaker 1: and it started to bother her. So I'm just going
Speaker 1: to kind of go into our story. So when I
Speaker 1: say my or me, this is her perspective. UM. My
Speaker 1: trauma started to negatarily impact my life when I realized
Speaker 1: I was having problems forming close relationships with people. I
Speaker 1: realized I couldn't effectively communicate my knees or wants. I
Speaker 1: was angry and would start physical altercations over nothing. I
Speaker 1: was displaying traumas responses to everyday situations, like hiding when
Speaker 1: someone would raise her voice, or dissociate when someone crossed
Speaker 1: the boundary I had established. UM. I was having panic
Speaker 1: attacks and other mental health issues, and I started having
Speaker 1: flashbacks um and and the events would stop her in
Speaker 1: our tracks or me and our Tracks. I did e
Speaker 1: MDR after one of the sessions, and my life had changed.
Speaker 1: The weight of my trauma was gone. Trauma survived. Us
Speaker 1: go through nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks, nights with no one
Speaker 1: believes you, so you lie about it till you doubt yourself,
Speaker 1: mental health issues, substance abuse issues, you try to kill yourself,
Speaker 1: constant emotional pain and anger. Um And then she goes
Speaker 1: into talking about how she was a domestic violence victim
Speaker 1: as well. UM And she talks about let me where
Speaker 1: I knew it. I was a prisoner. I wasn't allowed
Speaker 1: to go anywhere. Everything was my fault. It was emotional abuse,
Speaker 1: then verbal abuse before it became physical abuse. I stopped
Speaker 1: going to see my family, UM. I stopped going to school.
Speaker 1: I didn't have any friends, and I had no control
Speaker 1: of my body, my hair, my anything. UM. I had
Speaker 1: no freedom. I don't remember coping. I remember crying a
Speaker 1: lot and feeling very lonely and empty. I survived the
Speaker 1: situation by reading it sounds funny but I read a lot.
Speaker 1: I was allowed to read because I couldn't pick up
Speaker 1: anything to watch, but I had to sit with him
Speaker 1: while he watched TV. So I read, and that's how
Speaker 1: I coped. I still read as long as his he
Speaker 1: as long as he was happy, we were happy. I
Speaker 1: had to move through another country to get away from him.
Speaker 1: I thought he was going to kill me. Um. It's
Speaker 1: hard to give advice because my advice is always get out.
Speaker 1: But when you're in the situation, you can't see. But
Speaker 1: if you're trying to cope with trauma, get out and
Speaker 1: get help, see a professional. You're not alone and you
Speaker 1: don't have to go through it alone. Relief is out
Speaker 1: there and you're capable of peace, which that's absolutely correct.
Speaker 1: And her story is so heartbreaking, and I've heard um
Speaker 1: things like that way it's just, oh my gosh, how
Speaker 1: did you go through this? And I love that, you know,
Speaker 1: reading was something that she was using to cope, because
Speaker 1: there is a way, even in the midst of things
Speaker 1: that you do to cope. I think you and I
Speaker 1: talked about you know, you talked about the door, and
Speaker 1: for me, allied a lot and made up things. Um
Speaker 1: Or you just ignored it would we talk about again,
Speaker 1: and her her um ability to be able to tell
Speaker 1: the story is beautiful in itself. And and thank you
Speaker 1: Renee her name is Renee is well. Thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing that with us because it's very vulnerable and open,
Speaker 1: and there's so many other stories that people have shared
Speaker 1: with us that that are necessary, not wanting us to
Speaker 1: talk about it. But it gave me so much encouragement.
Speaker 1: When I read these peoples, I always started crying. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's wine. I'm fine, this is beautiful. I
Speaker 1: love these people. Yeah, and we we can appreciate the
Speaker 1: strength encourage it takes to write that out and to
Speaker 1: send it to sign. So really we we value you.
Speaker 1: It's so much and we are glad that you have
Speaker 1: trusted and sent those in we UM. There are two
Speaker 1: that we did want to include um. One is from
Speaker 1: Aaron who wrote, I just listened to your bonus episode
Speaker 1: on rape Kits and I wanted to share resources for
Speaker 1: any of your listeners in the Washington, D c. Area.
Speaker 1: I work for a nonprofit called DC Forensic Nurse Examiners,
Speaker 1: and we provide seven three sixty care to adult and
Speaker 1: adolescent survivors of sexual assault. You hero and You're a hero.
Speaker 1: Listeners can access our services by calling the DC Victim
Speaker 1: hotline eight four Help DC. We respond to the hospital
Speaker 1: within one hour and provide trauma and formed care and
Speaker 1: evidence collection f y I Washington, d C also has
Speaker 1: an online kit tracking database so that survivors can log
Speaker 1: onto a website with their own private tracking number to
Speaker 1: see exactly where the kit is in the process. We're
Speaker 1: really proud of it and just thought i'd share. You
Speaker 1: should be proud of it. That's all that is phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I really wish every state could adopt something like that
Speaker 1: because that is amazing. Yeah. Um, Teresa wrote in response
Speaker 1: to the story we shared about the woman in Alaska. UM,
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast this morning, I was excited to
Speaker 1: hear you talking about Alaska. We're so often forgotten about
Speaker 1: up here, even though the case you mentioned is disgusting. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I like Alaska. Yes. When the news first came out
Speaker 1: about the case, it wasn't immediately clear to the public
Speaker 1: at large that what was clearly sexual assault was technically
Speaker 1: not a crime at all. Once it became clear that
Speaker 1: such a vile act wasn't even a crime, it was
Speaker 1: a little clear why the judge had ruled the way
Speaker 1: he had, but we all know that judges have discretion
Speaker 1: and that if he had wanted to, he could absolutely
Speaker 1: have sentenced the perpetrator more appropriately. What you may or
Speaker 1: may not know, but I'm sure you won't be surprised
Speaker 1: either way, is that the purpose was a white man.
Speaker 1: In the victim was an Alaska Native woman, one of
Speaker 1: the most sexually abused populations in the country. I have
Speaker 1: good news, though, I had the pleasure of helping to
Speaker 1: vote that judge out of power. Alaska historically basically never
Speaker 1: asked judges, but this one is gone. In addition, the
Speaker 1: Senate is working on making it a crime to do
Speaker 1: what clearly should have been illegal all along. So please
Speaker 1: rejoice with me over this small victory and keep up
Speaker 1: all the hard work. Yes, and I will say after
Speaker 1: when we were researching, I read that soon after and
Speaker 1: was so excited. I mean, just the whole thing about
Speaker 1: them being angry, starting a group together and just going
Speaker 1: in and advocating for their government, for their local government,
Speaker 1: saying that we're not going to take this. This is bs,
Speaker 1: We're gonna call this out. And the power of angry
Speaker 1: women is beautiful. Honestly, one of the best things I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, and I love that we can show when
Speaker 1: we come together and if you push us. I think
Speaker 1: that's what we've been talking about, the futurist female. This
Speaker 1: is what we're talking about when we say the futurist
Speaker 1: female coming together and making a change. It's gorgeous. It
Speaker 1: is it is, UM. So those are that's that's one
Speaker 1: way of helping advocate survivors. UM, if you're a survivor
Speaker 1: or not voting, Yes, that's big way of advocating. As
Speaker 1: we can see. Yes, but it can look so many different,
Speaker 1: so many different ways. And as we come to the
Speaker 1: end of this episode and to the end of our
Speaker 1: mini series that we started in December, I think yes,
Speaker 1: the baby was born in December. I don't know we
Speaker 1: even talked about it before, but we finally finalized it
Speaker 1: in December. I made it a thing that yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do this, yes, and we recorded the first episode
Speaker 1: in January. UM. It's been a lot of work and
Speaker 1: often sometimes painful, UM difficult and scary. Being this vulnerable
Speaker 1: is scary, very scary, But it has also been rewarding
Speaker 1: hearing from your listeners you know more about me than
Speaker 1: pretty much anyone, so we congratulate. I'm sorry, UM, and
Speaker 1: it's been really valuable for me personally. I have learned
Speaker 1: a lot. I feel like I'm at the beginning of
Speaker 1: this journey of becoming a true survivor and I have
Speaker 1: so much work to do, but I think that I
Speaker 1: have the tools now more than ever to do it.
Speaker 1: It's literally changed my life. Yeah. UM. For those of
Speaker 1: you that are listening that are survivors, wherever you are
Speaker 1: on your journey, we hope that we've given you some
Speaker 1: examples of things getting better, UM, and we encourage you
Speaker 1: to be compassionate and in all of yourself when and
Speaker 1: where you can find those victorious, kind moments for yourself.
Speaker 1: And I also want to thank you all who have
Speaker 1: stuck with us. I know this was different and something
Speaker 1: I think it's so important to show that we're not alone.
Speaker 1: And I love reading comments about being able to stand
Speaker 1: up with women for your own situation and it's hard, Honestly,
Speaker 1: I can't always say it gets easier. The mere fact
Speaker 1: that you did took around to listen has been such
Speaker 1: an amazing thing to me and Annie, I want you
Speaker 1: to know that I appreciate so much that you became
Speaker 1: a part of this journey and allowed me to be
Speaker 1: a part of this journey as well. Is that you
Speaker 1: are willing to be as open as you are because
Speaker 1: I know it's hard, and I know for you who
Speaker 1: um and you've said you've not told many people to
Speaker 1: share on this level, especially something that personal. Not only
Speaker 1: is it frightening, but it is um heroic in my mind. UM,
Speaker 1: And I love you well, you know I'm gonna see
Speaker 1: it on air. I love you so much, And I
Speaker 1: feel like we've wanted so much because you are willing,
Speaker 1: more willing than most, especially in this field, in this
Speaker 1: in this era, and in this type of conversation, to
Speaker 1: actually let it all be and research it. And I
Speaker 1: know you've been triggered sometimes and I know you've had
Speaker 1: some episodes sometimes, but your strength and your ability to
Speaker 1: move on has been beautiful. Oh. I love you. And
Speaker 1: to all those who identified female and have gone through
Speaker 1: trauma and understand the depth of where this can take you,
Speaker 1: thank you for who you are. Um. You're stronger than
Speaker 1: you know. And just again, facing a perpetrator or being
Speaker 1: able to continue a life that takes straight and yet
Speaker 1: this should reach out to more than just one gender
Speaker 1: um trauma is a disease and that's Dr Jane said.
Speaker 1: It is infectious and it takes a community to cover.
Speaker 1: And again you're not alone and we see you. Yeah yeah, um.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because we've done all these episodes and
Speaker 1: I still feel like we could have talked about this
Speaker 1: or it could There's so many things. They are specific
Speaker 1: and with intersectional feminism in mind, there are so many
Speaker 1: things we need to work on and improve for everyone.
Speaker 1: And also I feel like I end all my episodes
Speaker 1: of this we should be moving towards preventions, like societal
Speaker 1: things that are in place systemic that we need to
Speaker 1: work conting tiny things just the mindset alone. As we
Speaker 1: talked about about jurors. We need to talk about that
Speaker 1: in itself. But anyway, that's what we're working towards it
Speaker 1: and any you know, there's a lot of discussions we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about. I can always be back just saying
Speaker 1: you know, I have some time on my calendars, just
Speaker 1: put it out there, yes, and we Well, we'll be
Speaker 1: hearing from you again, I'm pretty sure, yes, um. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime, we would love to hear from you listeners.
Speaker 1: If you have any resources or any stories you'd like
Speaker 1: to share, please send them our way. UM, I do
Speaker 1: have some news, So I was gonna say when you
Speaker 1: do some these these help us to they do you
Speaker 1: don't know this therapeutic to see how many people are
Speaker 1: encouraging us for those who have reached out and took
Speaker 1: their chance of reaching out. We do read these and
Speaker 1: we love them and thank you keep coming. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean thank you everybody who just like wrote in
Speaker 1: and said that was greaty like those comments you don't
Speaker 1: know about, because yes, can you imagine you put it
Speaker 1: an episode out of your therapy so about low self
Speaker 1: esteem and you're like, oh god, what everyone, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I had a panic attack when my release.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna have to sit here and
Speaker 1: watch this show for hours and not move. Yes, so
Speaker 1: very much appreciated. But the news is, oh yeah, there
Speaker 1: is a new email address, and don't panic. I'm sure
Speaker 1: so many of you were panicking. Um, if you email
Speaker 1: the old email, it will still get to us. Um,
Speaker 1: but the new email is all right, here we go.
Speaker 1: Stuff media mom stuff at I heart media dot com.
Speaker 1: So easy stuff media mom stuff at I heart media
Speaker 1: dot com. Are you doing woman, I did. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm here for. I'm trying to show my value here,
Speaker 1: cople of. It's so simple, so easy. I repeated it
Speaker 1: back without any kind of Oh, you got me pumped.
Speaker 1: I'm ready, all right, you pumpting, I gotta I got
Speaker 1: that out without Adie prompting. There we go to that um.
Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media on Twitter
Speaker 1: at moms a podcast and on Instagram at stuff Mom
Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to you, Samantha, Thank
Speaker 1: you guys, I love you all. Thanks as always also
Speaker 1: to our superproducer Andrew Howard. I love you too, Andrew,
Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
Speaker 1: You the production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works.
Speaker 1: For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Goodbye, the curtain blows it