Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome
Speaker 1: to stuff. I never told you a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radios how starts all right, listeners. Um, I know,
Speaker 1: we promised we were going to do like a bunch
Speaker 1: of lighthearted topics as a break um, and we've just
Speaker 1: completely failed or backed out on that promise. Um bagging out.
Speaker 1: We're just postponing because we are going to do a
Speaker 1: little more lighthearted but unfortunately, Yeah, things keep coming up
Speaker 1: and you just can't ignore them. It was like the
Speaker 1: world is falling apart right now. It does feel that way. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other day when I was researching this topic and
Speaker 1: the in sales woman, so one of my co workers
Speaker 1: came up and he was like, gonna tell me some
Speaker 1: silly joke, and he took one look at my face
Speaker 1: and said, are you okay? So, yes, there's all going
Speaker 1: on in the world. Um, and we really can't put
Speaker 1: off talking about abortion and all of these restrictions around
Speaker 1: abortion that are happening in our laws any longer. So um,
Speaker 1: sugar warnings for this before we get into it. Um.
Speaker 1: Some sexual assault, rape, incest, and of course abortion, abortion, miscarriage. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you've probably heard about some of these. It's not
Speaker 1: in the news at all. Oh yeah, every day everyday
Speaker 1: conversations or Facebook or any of the social media, it's
Speaker 1: not at all, right, Um, And we know this is
Speaker 1: an emotional issue for a lot of people. Um, And
Speaker 1: we're trying really to focus on the laws here, right.
Speaker 1: And and just a reminder, yes, abortion is a hard,
Speaker 1: hard topic and the reason we're having this conversation because
Speaker 1: there's not only many misconceptions still floating about that. We
Speaker 1: want to make sure that while having this conversation we
Speaker 1: can later us some of the misconception that continues to
Speaker 1: happen and continue to be spread unfortunately. Yes, and um,
Speaker 1: And a future episode possibly right after this one, but
Speaker 1: recording schedules are fun. Um, we'll be talking about crisis
Speaker 1: pregnancy centers as well. So another thing to worth mentioning
Speaker 1: is that a lot of this is in flux. As
Speaker 1: we recorded, things are happening very rapidly. Wishing it never
Speaker 1: happens in our legal system. How interesting it does for this.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so if you if you listen to this
Speaker 1: and something is incorrect or has changed, just no, Um,
Speaker 1: as we record this, it's been about a week since
Speaker 1: Alabama passed um their their law, which we'll get into
Speaker 1: in a second, and we aren't going to go too
Speaker 1: much into the history. There are some past episodes of
Speaker 1: this very show for that, but just a friendly reminder
Speaker 1: that Republicans, which is the party of less government on paper,
Speaker 1: that's what they issay, recognized that this was an emotional
Speaker 1: issue that they could use to attract evangelicals the moral majority.
Speaker 1: In the eighties, in percent of surveyed Republicans believed it
Speaker 1: was a private matter between women and their doctors. Reagan,
Speaker 1: who once signed one of the most liberal laws around
Speaker 1: abortion when he was governor of California nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 1: changed his tune in the nineteen eighty presidential election and
Speaker 1: he brought up the issue of rights for unborn fetuses UM.
Speaker 1: Then he then came the crack epidemic, and then came
Speaker 1: the unfounded racist belief that black mothers who were on
Speaker 1: cracker giving birth to a generation of dangerous and or
Speaker 1: damaged children. And this reinforced the idea that the wants
Speaker 1: or needs of the fetus were in direct conflict with
Speaker 1: that of the mother, and the mother in this case
Speaker 1: did not deserve society's protection. Unlady alike with UM creator
Speaker 1: founder Kristin Conger and Caroline Irvan Pass co host UM.
Speaker 1: They have a great episode on abortion with the experiences
Speaker 1: of three women. And like I said, we've done past
Speaker 1: episodes about the history UM, and we recently did an
Speaker 1: episode on Ireland's vote if you want kind of a
Speaker 1: more international take, and UM also home abortions. So there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of media out there to consume if
Speaker 1: you would like more information after this, and if you're
Speaker 1: wondering why it seems so much of these laws banning
Speaker 1: abortion are happening now, it's because Republicans are hoping that
Speaker 1: they can get a case to the Supreme Court to
Speaker 1: overturn Roe v. Wade, which they think they can overturn
Speaker 1: now that they have gorst In Kevinaugh as justices right
Speaker 1: and as in fact, that's been kind of some of
Speaker 1: the platforms for the now UM presiding legislative people such
Speaker 1: as our governor in Georgia, Kemp. That was one of
Speaker 1: his biggest platform was to try to get this overturn.
Speaker 1: So this has been in the workings for a little while.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately we're seeing it all that happen. And uh, some
Speaker 1: of us who feeled is and injustice have feared that
Speaker 1: this would happen. Yeah, oh absolutely. According to the Gutmacher
Speaker 1: Institute thirty eight, if the restrictions passed around abortion were
Speaker 1: enacted between twenty ten and twenty sixteen, which makes up
Speaker 1: one third, about one third of all restrictions passed since
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade in ninety three. So this is like increasing.
Speaker 1: It's not just in your head as they say. And
Speaker 1: also the abortion rate is decreasing. Inteen, there were an
Speaker 1: estimated nine hundred thousand abortions US, about fourteen point six
Speaker 1: abortions per one thousand pregnancies. That same year, the US
Speaker 1: had one thousand, six hundred seventy one facilities that provided abortions.
Speaker 1: I have actually seen a lot of debate about that number,
Speaker 1: but somewhere around there um. But still it's not an
Speaker 1: uncommon experience. One in four women will have an abortion
Speaker 1: before the age of forty five. During one month in seventeen,
Speaker 1: there were two hundred thousand searches on self abortion in
Speaker 1: months um and for some more numbers, nearly one million
Speaker 1: known pregnancies in the U s and in miscarriages are
Speaker 1: still birth um. The same it has been for around
Speaker 1: thirty years. Most of the time the cause isn't determined.
Speaker 1: For women who have or are going through a miscarriage,
Speaker 1: that trauma is made worse when they are accused of homicide,
Speaker 1: which is what some of these restrictions um entail. And
Speaker 1: for doctors, this puts them in the position of collecting
Speaker 1: evidence as opposed to providing care right which has been
Speaker 1: around Twitter. I've seeing several different stories where they talk
Speaker 1: about parents who wanted children having a miscarriage and having
Speaker 1: to go through that type of trauma and then having
Speaker 1: to sit still while the doctor gathers pretty much whatever's
Speaker 1: there bodily issues and all of the fluids and such,
Speaker 1: and gathering up for evidence to do autopsies to make
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't the person's fault this miscarriage happened, which
Speaker 1: is I can only imagine, like it's just horrifying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And if the personhood of a fetus was established, legal
Speaker 1: abortion would be a thing of the past because they
Speaker 1: would be protected by the fourteenth Amendment UM and even
Speaker 1: some forms of birth control right. The law in Ohio
Speaker 1: actually could eliminate medical coverage for birth control, and the
Speaker 1: language within the Georgia bill makes it very vague with
Speaker 1: definitions of non therapeutic abortions, which includes drugs or devices
Speaker 1: used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum, which
Speaker 1: means any drug that blocks fertilization and implantation, and this
Speaker 1: could include i U D s and pills, which is
Speaker 1: really problematic in itself because that's so far ahead of
Speaker 1: even being created, something being created, and you're starting to wonder,
Speaker 1: how is this going to be illegal? Yeah, I had
Speaker 1: a one of my best friends moms, believed that UM
Speaker 1: birth control was essentially abortion, right. I actually had a
Speaker 1: debate with a good friend of mine about this as well,
Speaker 1: and the fact that she felt, um, I guess flushing,
Speaker 1: I'm fertilized was literally abortion and had a really big
Speaker 1: issue with that, and we had this hope back and forth,
Speaker 1: like why why what? Like it doesn't even make sense
Speaker 1: because then what you're saying to me is essentially a miscarriage.
Speaker 1: These were I mean, and for those who want these children,
Speaker 1: it absolutely could be. The athlete named this as what
Speaker 1: is to them their child who they lost, and that
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking and I think that should be absolutely validated
Speaker 1: and acknowledge. But we understand that it's not exactly. That
Speaker 1: is not as blanket as this is a human being
Speaker 1: of source, whatever whatnot. The law in Ohio was also
Speaker 1: written by Janet Porter, a woman who thinks some of
Speaker 1: sexuality is a choice and is the president and founder
Speaker 1: of Faith to Action Haven for anti LGBTQ plus sentiment
Speaker 1: the Southern poverty loss in her classifies them as a
Speaker 1: hate group. She lost her radio talk show when she
Speaker 1: verged on Christian supremacy. For nine years, she lobbied on
Speaker 1: the outside of the abortion debate, as her six week
Speaker 1: ban was vitoed twice and it wasn't even supported by
Speaker 1: the Ohio Right to Life. She was also a birther
Speaker 1: Um and said of Roy Moore, I have known him
Speaker 1: for twenty years because of his stand for the Ten Commandments.
Speaker 1: So if there was ever a man who was innocent,
Speaker 1: he's like the least likely man in America to do
Speaker 1: the things they accused him of. Now that we have
Speaker 1: that sentiment, we know Roy Moore's holiest of all. Oh goodness,
Speaker 1: no nope, um, And quick note about the whole x
Speaker 1: weeks pregnant thing, because I think there is a lot
Speaker 1: of confusion around this. This is an estimate, Um. It's
Speaker 1: done based on when women had their last period called
Speaker 1: l M p UM and we all probably a lot
Speaker 1: of us listening. No, you can have a regular periods.
Speaker 1: Things change in your life, like very it's for me,
Speaker 1: it's been rare in my life to meet someone who's
Speaker 1: very regular. But right, I know they exist. Just saying
Speaker 1: it's not as scientific thing as I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people believe it to be. And we're going to
Speaker 1: be talking a lot about so called heartbeat bills, and
Speaker 1: this typically means six weeks. Doctors argue the term is
Speaker 1: medically inaccurate because the heart chambers have not formed yet.
Speaker 1: Around twenty four weeks is when a pregnancy is considered viable,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of when Roe v. Wade, that's what
Speaker 1: it protects. The US has one of the highest, if
Speaker 1: not the highest, pregnancy mortality rate of any industrialized country.
Speaker 1: Is something we don't talk about a lot in this
Speaker 1: conversation as well. UM and the rates are often highest
Speaker 1: in the states that are passing these strictest abortion laws.
Speaker 1: Abortion has been shown to be savior than childbirth. Say
Speaker 1: this because pregnancy is not something to be entered into lightly.
Speaker 1: UM and also we leave out a lot Um, trans people,
Speaker 1: they can get pregnant, and you just to put that
Speaker 1: out there. We are trying to speak more of people
Speaker 1: being pregnant and not women because of that language in itself,
Speaker 1: that trans men still can be pregnant and should also
Speaker 1: be a of this conversation as well. UM. I know
Speaker 1: there's been many things where we leave specific people out
Speaker 1: and it's not inclusive, and this is part of the
Speaker 1: problem in general, I think, well, obviously because we're excluding
Speaker 1: the rights of anyone who's prebagnant to get this bill
Speaker 1: out anyway, right, yeah, um, and we're about to move
Speaker 1: into you some specific state laws. But first, UM, just
Speaker 1: to kind of give an example of what this can
Speaker 1: look like. UM. In a woman in Virginia passed out
Speaker 1: and when she woke up, she found her fetus still
Speaker 1: born next to her. It had been dead inside of
Speaker 1: her for three days. She wrapped up the fetus and
Speaker 1: put it in a garbage bag and then went to
Speaker 1: get medical attention, and her dad, who didn't realize what
Speaker 1: was in the bag, threw it away and she was
Speaker 1: convicted of concealing a dead body and sentenced to five
Speaker 1: months in prison, and the appeal, her lawyer argued that
Speaker 1: the fetis was never alive, so it could not be dead. Eventually, though,
Speaker 1: the woman was pardoned, but a court upheld the decision
Speaker 1: and made the argument that a fetus was the dead
Speaker 1: body of a person. And this is really important into
Speaker 1: the whole conversation of what is happening right now, because
Speaker 1: we're talking about not just banning something, but actually criminalizing
Speaker 1: individuals as well, and that is really really problematic and
Speaker 1: dangerous for the onset of people who are going to
Speaker 1: be prosecuted, or how they could be prosecuted, or again,
Speaker 1: maybe what race may be more likely to be prosecuted,
Speaker 1: because that is a conversation that has to happen. Yes,
Speaker 1: And but it's also important because essentially what opponents of
Speaker 1: abortion are trying to do is established the personhood of
Speaker 1: a fetus. So one of the proposals of the tax
Speaker 1: bill put forth by Congress had a provision about fetis personhood. Um.
Speaker 1: And then here's some quick overview stats and then we'll
Speaker 1: get into some specifics. Eleven states restrict coverage of abortions
Speaker 1: by private insurance. Thirty three states and Washington, d c.
Speaker 1: Have rules prohibiting state funding for abortions, except when federal
Speaker 1: money is available, and only then for cases of life
Speaker 1: endangerment or rape and incest. Forty five states allow individual
Speaker 1: healthcare providers to refuse to participate in an abortion. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's look at some state laws, starting with Iowa.
Speaker 1: So this one was permanently blocked, but it's worth mentioning
Speaker 1: it was a heartbeat bill that was quickly struck down.
Speaker 1: Republican Senator Rick Bertrand said of it, we created an
Speaker 1: opportunity to take a run at Roe v. Wade. That
Speaker 1: state has many other restrictions around abortions, like requiring ultrasounds
Speaker 1: even against a patient's will, requiring that the parents of
Speaker 1: a minor are notified, and requiring the governor's sign off
Speaker 1: on all Medicaid approved abortions even in the case of rape, incest,
Speaker 1: fetal anomaly, or life endangerment. Then there's North Dakota. This
Speaker 1: one was also permanently blocked. North Dakota passed a quote
Speaker 1: fetal heartbeat law in the strictest in the country at
Speaker 1: the time, but it was blocked from taking effect. Then
Speaker 1: last year in Mississippi, that state passed a law prohibiting
Speaker 1: abortion after fifteen weeks of pregnancy. It was challenged and
Speaker 1: struck down soon after, But it didn't end there. And
Speaker 1: March the governor signed a Heartbeat bill, and this is
Speaker 1: set to go into effect as recording this July. The
Speaker 1: Center for Reproductive Rights has requested a judge to block
Speaker 1: it before it goes into effect. Then there's Kentucky. This
Speaker 1: one is temporarily blocked. Kentucky Senator and Republican Paul Rand
Speaker 1: introduced the Life at Conception Act. This act sought to
Speaker 1: ban all abortions and protect and give fetuses full protection
Speaker 1: under the Fourteenth Amendment quote at the moment of fertilization.
Speaker 1: Kentucky also passed along seen that required doctors show an
Speaker 1: ultra a sound to women seeking an abortion and describe
Speaker 1: it in detail, and play the fetal heartbeat, even against
Speaker 1: the patient's wishes. It was later struck down by a
Speaker 1: federal court. In Kentucky passed House Bill four or five
Speaker 1: four in an attempt to put an end to common
Speaker 1: second trimester procedures dilation and evacuation pregnancy d n e
Speaker 1: a K partial birth. It made performing these a Class
Speaker 1: D felony, but the patient was protected. A federal judge
Speaker 1: struck it down, saying it would be a substantial obstacle
Speaker 1: in the way of getting an abortion, and Kentucky's governor appealed.
Speaker 1: Of the eleven percent of abortions that take place during
Speaker 1: the third trimester, the DNA accounts for of them. The
Speaker 1: American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have labeled it as
Speaker 1: evidence based and medically preferred. And then there's Senate Bill nine,
Speaker 1: the Heartbeat Bill, and this is the band on abortions
Speaker 1: as soon as a heartbeat can be detected. It was
Speaker 1: blocked and House Bill one for eight trigger bill that
Speaker 1: will ban all abortions in the state if ro Vwright
Speaker 1: is overturned. Senate Bill five signed that one bans abortion
Speaker 1: after the nineteenth week of pregnancy. Abortion, by law, is
Speaker 1: not covered under insurance Republic employees. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: happening in Kentucky, right There's a lot of attempts and
Speaker 1: things being passed. It's been a back and forth the
Speaker 1: entirety of our lives, I mean, honestly, and since the
Speaker 1: beginning of row versus wait has been a constant struggle
Speaker 1: and it continues to be a constant struggle. We had
Speaker 1: thought we made progress five years ago, yeah, oh um.
Speaker 1: And then Ohio, which we kind of touched on a
Speaker 1: little bit. UM. This one goes into effect July. In
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, Ohio tried to pass the first feetal
Speaker 1: heartbeat bill and have now passed it. And one of
Speaker 1: the pushes for this bill was to be sued by
Speaker 1: anti abortions groups in order to repeal row versus wait,
Speaker 1: which has been kind of the theme throughout Yes Yes, UM.
Speaker 1: Then that brings us to state. A state of Georgia
Speaker 1: does not go into effects until January. UM. Always like
Speaker 1: to put that out there so it doesn't deter people
Speaker 1: who go get abortions if you need them. UM. A
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, Governor Bryant Kemp signed Georgia's HB
Speaker 1: for eight one, also called the Living Fairness and Equality
Speaker 1: Act l I f a UM, which is a heartbeat
Speaker 1: bill out allowing abortion at six weeks even in the
Speaker 1: case of rape and ancest It's the sixth state to
Speaker 1: pass the sixth week law, follow North Dakota, Kentucky, Ohio, Iowas.
Speaker 1: To be on top of that, it widens the definition
Speaker 1: of natural persons to include unborn child. It allows for
Speaker 1: potential criminal prosecution for both doctor and patient. The a
Speaker 1: c l U and the Center for Reprojective Rights have
Speaker 1: both stated their plans to challenge it in court and
Speaker 1: then like not even a week later Alabama UM. Late
Speaker 1: Alabama voters passed an initiative that read, quote nothing in
Speaker 1: this Constitution and secures or protect a right to abortion
Speaker 1: or requires the funding of an abortion, and that policy
Speaker 1: has to quote recognize and support the sanctity of unborn
Speaker 1: life and the rights of unborn children. It makes no
Speaker 1: exceptions for incest and rape and makes it a felony
Speaker 1: for doctors up to ninety nine years of jail time
Speaker 1: to perform them unless life engagement is at play. And
Speaker 1: as we talked about at lengthen our Trauma series, sexual
Speaker 1: assault takes away someone's control over their own body, and
Speaker 1: healing is about giving them back that control. Forcing someone
Speaker 1: who has been raped to carry a forced pregnancy to
Speaker 1: term removes that control and compounds the trauma. A provision
Speaker 1: along the same lines in Tennessee was upheld in federal
Speaker 1: Appeals Court UM, and honestly, I was gonna throw in
Speaker 1: there this could cause trauma for rape victims who do
Speaker 1: have children, because we saw one I think the eleven
Speaker 1: year old who had to share custody with her rapist
Speaker 1: for that child, which is another back and forth that
Speaker 1: we need to have a versation about who gives control
Speaker 1: of what. And not only did we allow UM someone
Speaker 1: to take control of this youth who had gone through
Speaker 1: this traumatic event, but now we have the perpetrated controlling
Speaker 1: are even more because of this entity that's between them.
Speaker 1: Oddly enough, even pet Robertson has condemned this legislation as
Speaker 1: being unjust and over the top. So you have a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are all about UM pro life
Speaker 1: choices as in like the political stances, who are like
Speaker 1: this may have gone a little too far. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that's the thing is, it's like it's politics. It's disingenuous.
Speaker 1: They just want to get it to the Supreme Court, right,
Speaker 1: And I think you must have the one most extreme
Speaker 1: in order to get as much as you can. So
Speaker 1: if you're negotiating for a tactic, go the other extremes
Speaker 1: so you can get the more right well and then
Speaker 1: reapp Missouri, which as we record this actually as we
Speaker 1: were writing the outline right, um Missouri passed a bill
Speaker 1: banning abortion after eight weeks UM that is on its
Speaker 1: way to the Republican Governor's desk. It has no exceptions
Speaker 1: for rape and incest, only for medical emergencies. It's expected
Speaker 1: the governor will sign it, since he tweeted, thanks to
Speaker 1: the leaders in the House and Senate, we are one
Speaker 1: vote away from passing one of the strongest hashtag pro
Speaker 1: life pills in the country. Standing for life, protecting women's health,
Speaker 1: and advocating for the unborn, which, by the way, protecting
Speaker 1: women's health. I'm not really sure how it does that,
Speaker 1: as well as no one's covering these costs, that's the
Speaker 1: other part. But whatever, And I'm guessing most of y'all
Speaker 1: already know the comment made by Representative Barry Hovas and
Speaker 1: his about the whole consensual rape, which was a fun,
Speaker 1: fun conversation and then the so called apology saying he misspoke.
Speaker 1: But with our previous episode with Justin Boardman and d A. Samantha,
Speaker 1: we know this is a common mindset which causes for
Speaker 1: many people to not trust victims, and here not trust
Speaker 1: people who could possibly be pregnant. We have another conversation
Speaker 1: about not believing victims, and you have this whole what
Speaker 1: consensual rape? What the hell is that it can't be
Speaker 1: ripe for it's if it's consensual, which he did say that,
Speaker 1: and he said he misspoke or in there somehow I'm like,
Speaker 1: I didn't need to be or any of this, and
Speaker 1: once again justifying the whole thing as being and this
Speaker 1: is not stranger rapes and so therefore is it really right? Right?
Speaker 1: And one more time, yes, yes it is. If a
Speaker 1: parson said no, that's rape. Yeah, just because they're on
Speaker 1: a date doesn't mean that they have to get they
Speaker 1: have to have sex with somebody just because you paid
Speaker 1: for a PHASI did, or you don't go them sex,
Speaker 1: I'm done man um. So this Missouri law, doctors caught
Speaker 1: violating it could be sentenced to five to fifteen years
Speaker 1: in prison and have their license revote. Right, And as
Speaker 1: you saw with Georgia and Alabama and many other places,
Speaker 1: doctors will be prosecuted, can be prosecuted for assisting and
Speaker 1: places like Georgia, if you go outside of the state,
Speaker 1: that's still um he still could be charged if you're
Speaker 1: if you're a citizen of the of Georgia I guess
Speaker 1: in a resident of Georgia and you go to another
Speaker 1: state that allows for a warship, you can be prosecuted
Speaker 1: for those same charges as if you were in the state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I saw a lot of um comparisons. To imagine
Speaker 1: or think about how many states where it's legal to
Speaker 1: gamble and you go to you go to that state
Speaker 1: to gamble, and then you don't come back to your
Speaker 1: hope state expecting to be arrested. UM. Anyway, we have
Speaker 1: some more for you listeners, but first we're gonna stop
Speaker 1: for a quick break for word from our sponsor, and
Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. UM. One thing before we
Speaker 1: go into some of this some more state facts. Texas, Florida, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and Utah have also passed laws and restrictions around abortion.
Speaker 1: And on a side note, is also worthy to take
Speaker 1: note that Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, and
Speaker 1: West Virginia only have one abortion clinic in their states,
Speaker 1: so it's obviously that these states don't have much access
Speaker 1: to begin with. At least thirty eight states have laws
Speaker 1: that treat fetus as potential victims of a crime apart
Speaker 1: from the separate mothers, so they're like a separate entity.
Speaker 1: Crimes pregnant women can be charged with and this is
Speaker 1: from the New York Times is a very helpful article.
Speaker 1: Fetal assault, depraved heart murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, feticide,
Speaker 1: child abuse, delivery of controlled substance, chemical endangerment of a fetus,
Speaker 1: reckless energery to a child, concealing a birth or death,
Speaker 1: abuse of a corpse, neglect of a minor, attempted procurement
Speaker 1: of a miscarriage, and reckless homicide, and that abuse of
Speaker 1: corpse charged by the way was a law originally put
Speaker 1: on the books to prevent necrophilia or destruction of a
Speaker 1: body um or at least provide means to punish those acts,
Speaker 1: but it is now used by prosecutors to punish women
Speaker 1: for having a miscarriage. There are rare cases of pregnant
Speaker 1: women being charged with a crime after falling down the stairs,
Speaker 1: being in a car accident, eating poppy seed bagels, or
Speaker 1: taking jugs prescribed by their doctors um And there are
Speaker 1: laws that require still mores get a birth certificate and
Speaker 1: that to nine women say and end of life decisions
Speaker 1: laws like this and the ones being enacted now that
Speaker 1: give more rights to a fetus while at the same
Speaker 1: time stripping rights from women, like the right to consent
Speaker 1: to surgery, or to hold your baby after it's born,
Speaker 1: or receive treatment for a medical condition. As far as
Speaker 1: end of life decisions, thirty one states have laws that
Speaker 1: do that on the books. Twelve of those disallowed doctors
Speaker 1: from following a woman's wishes when it comes to removing
Speaker 1: life support even in the early stages of pregnancy. In
Speaker 1: nineteen other states, even given a living will, women can't
Speaker 1: make decisions around their own end of life if a
Speaker 1: viable fetus is in the mix. Some have language specifying
Speaker 1: even in cases of extreme pain. And I really wonder
Speaker 1: how this is going to affect when it comes to
Speaker 1: the idea of domestic violence and or control with a partnership,
Speaker 1: because I know a lot of there has been a
Speaker 1: big debate about um, who has the right over a fetus,
Speaker 1: and then who if the father can have more say
Speaker 1: than a woman and all of that, and this could
Speaker 1: be a big contingent of power that not necessarily about
Speaker 1: the child or the fetus. It's more so about control
Speaker 1: over that woman. And this is a really dangerous precedent
Speaker 1: that could happen, whether it's a woman's choice or not,
Speaker 1: and binding them into a hard situation. Again, and remember
Speaker 1: many times in domestic violence situations and or um child
Speaker 1: abuse situations. If the wife or the woman or the
Speaker 1: partner rather is a victim and doesn't do anything to say,
Speaker 1: prevent a charm of harm from a child, prevent harm
Speaker 1: from a child, they can be also prosecuted for neglect
Speaker 1: or endangerment. And I know at least several of these
Speaker 1: cases that I've seen or worked with, the partner who
Speaker 1: is the victim is a victim, and it's disregarded oftentimes
Speaker 1: more than anything else. And so you have to think
Speaker 1: about how hard is this going to be even the
Speaker 1: future responses for DV types of situations. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff I think that gets left out in
Speaker 1: this whole conversation. There's a lot of other things going on. Um.
Speaker 1: Some activists think that both Row versus Wade and Plant
Speaker 1: parented versus Casey have legal loopholes in them protecting the
Speaker 1: legal right to an abortion, but also the interest the
Speaker 1: state has in protecting a fetus's potential life. But most
Speaker 1: of these laws that put the life of the fetus
Speaker 1: at the pain and risk of life of the woman
Speaker 1: don't protect the fetus or the pregnant party like they
Speaker 1: don't succeed in either right, UM, most of these laws
Speaker 1: are new maybe around and asked, Many anti abortion activists
Speaker 1: say that punishing a grieving woman for having an unintentional
Speaker 1: miscarriage is a small price to pay if they can
Speaker 1: abolish abortion. From conservative activists and founding president of the
Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation, Paul wi Rich, I believe that if you
Speaker 1: have to choose between new life and existing life, you
Speaker 1: should choose new life. The person who has had an
Speaker 1: opportunity to live at least has been given that gift
Speaker 1: by God should make way for new life on earth. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We I won't go into how messed up that comment is,
Speaker 1: but I think I do want to put this out
Speaker 1: there too, because I know some of the conversations that
Speaker 1: I have, especially coming around about abortion and UM pro
Speaker 1: life probably choice, those two conversations that happen. We're talking
Speaker 1: a lot about the fact that the male politicians, white
Speaker 1: male politicians seem to have one interest, and I think
Speaker 1: they do. I think there are a lot of them
Speaker 1: who have whole other ideas and controlling women in general.
Speaker 1: But I do believe that there are those out there
Speaker 1: who are very passionate in saying they want to save
Speaker 1: lives UM, and I'm not going to disregard that as
Speaker 1: something that's out there. I get that, I get that
Speaker 1: in your um, in people's minds that this is a
Speaker 1: baby and they want creation, and they have examples of
Speaker 1: people who are unwanted pregnancies to begin with end up
Speaker 1: being who have benefited others and have been helpful, have
Speaker 1: done amazing things. And I'm not disregarding that at all.
Speaker 1: We're not saying that that's not something to consider and
Speaker 1: being passionate about. But what we're talking about is more
Speaker 1: along the lines of this is dangerous, This is a
Speaker 1: dangerous precedent, and not only UM, the fact that people
Speaker 1: are not trusting people who can be pregnant, which to me,
Speaker 1: I trust my nieces and my you know, and myself
Speaker 1: and I will date the choice that is best for me. UM,
Speaker 1: as well as the fact that there are just whole
Speaker 1: ideas about people, especially late term um abortions, which by
Speaker 1: the way, is not typical and the only time that
Speaker 1: truly really happens is because of medical conditions. UM. Just
Speaker 1: hearing the heartbreaking stories that I've heard from people, UM
Speaker 1: who wanted these these children or this child couldn't because
Speaker 1: of whatever medical problems that occurred, and just watching them
Speaker 1: grieve over that, and then sitting here watching them discuss
Speaker 1: this type of arguments and this type of um laws
Speaker 1: coming into fect, how it could actually affect them, and
Speaker 1: how it's traumatizing to see them being placed in the
Speaker 1: port of like, oh, you're against life, when all they
Speaker 1: really wanted was to create this life and love this
Speaker 1: child and into their home and bring them into their home.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really problematic that we ignore that
Speaker 1: and seem to be flippidly saying, oh, they did this
Speaker 1: on purpose, yeah, you know. And I think that's another
Speaker 1: part of the conversation. We want life. I treasure life.
Speaker 1: That is my job. Like I try to care for
Speaker 1: the because that come into the world without any help
Speaker 1: and who have been pushed back or abused or neglected
Speaker 1: or you know, completely disregarded because they are now old
Speaker 1: enough to care for themselves, and why won't they type
Speaker 1: of conversations, This is what I do. This is what
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about, and I want to be there for them,
Speaker 1: and I want to help them and advocate for them.
Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is this whole idea
Speaker 1: of it just being pro life versus you know, anti life.
Speaker 1: If you want to say that way, that's not true,
Speaker 1: that's not the conversation. And just easily saying you're murdering babies.
Speaker 1: We get that. No one wants to murder babies. Let's
Speaker 1: just put that out there. That's not a thing. That's
Speaker 1: not a thing. But at the same time, this is
Speaker 1: the bigger issue. This is a bigger point. Who are
Speaker 1: we criminalizing Why are we criminalizing them? How does this
Speaker 1: affect individual women to being healthy and honest and upfront
Speaker 1: about what they need, how to get the care that
Speaker 1: they need. Like again, I know this is all like
Speaker 1: kind of a rant right now, but I don't want
Speaker 1: it to be said that is just oh, yeah, we
Speaker 1: we don't like babies. Yeah, this is not I don't
Speaker 1: know how else to say it. There's not that's not
Speaker 1: a thing, I know. And that's why a lot of
Speaker 1: people are trying to relabel it as bro choice and
Speaker 1: anti choice. Um right, yeah, And I mean we didn't
Speaker 1: go into it too much because, like I said, there's
Speaker 1: so much content and I'm sure a lot of you
Speaker 1: know it, but yeah, late term, a lot of the
Speaker 1: miss out there their myths like and also we've heard
Speaker 1: story after story, and we even did one specifically when
Speaker 1: we did the Ireland episode UM of women being taken
Speaker 1: to hospitals and like having extreme long, difficult miscarriages because
Speaker 1: they weren't allowed to have an abortion um and the
Speaker 1: babies UM. And then in the case of the one
Speaker 1: in Ireland, she died as well. So this is dangerous, right,
Speaker 1: This is absolutely dangerous as well as the fact that
Speaker 1: and to put it bluntly, and I'm so sorry for
Speaker 1: those who have gone through this to have a a
Speaker 1: stillborn still inside of you and have trying to carry
Speaker 1: that the full term. It's already traumatic. It's already tramatic
Speaker 1: to have to give birth to uh, something that is
Speaker 1: no longer living that you love automatically. Let's just go
Speaker 1: ah and put that there. And these laws are problematic
Speaker 1: in itself because of things like that. Yeah. And one
Speaker 1: other thing that um, I find really upsetting, and I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people do, is that there aren't
Speaker 1: any support systems in place oftentimes for raising these children UM. Right.
Speaker 1: And again I say this as a person who works
Speaker 1: and worked with foster care systems. The argument that many
Speaker 1: people have is that no one truly supports the foster
Speaker 1: care system, more kids in out of home placements, and
Speaker 1: it's very true we don't have enough funding to help
Speaker 1: these kids. We do the bare minimum. Hey Christmas, Christmas
Speaker 1: time comes around and all of the churches give free gifts,
Speaker 1: which is wonderful. Please we appreciate that, thank you very much. However,
Speaker 1: they need they need more than just gifts around Christmas time.
Speaker 1: They need family atmosphere they need and when I say family,
Speaker 1: someone who could care for them. But it's hard to
Speaker 1: love those who don't know how to be loved. Let's
Speaker 1: try that. And because people are being told you need
Speaker 1: to have these children and single moms, you are miracle workers.
Speaker 1: I want to go ahead and put that out there.
Speaker 1: You have a job, probably for those who have one
Speaker 1: job trying to figure out how to care for a
Speaker 1: kid taken to school and not neglect them. If you
Speaker 1: don't have a support system, you're already screwed. What that
Speaker 1: buy that? I mean like a family or they care
Speaker 1: free child care. That is problematic too. And then we
Speaker 1: talk about again when we talk about the foster care system,
Speaker 1: there's so many kids ages eight and older who have
Speaker 1: no home because they're troubled, they have had issues because
Speaker 1: of things that they have gone through. And I can
Speaker 1: guarantee you any of these kids you meet are going
Speaker 1: to have to have intensive counseling. It's really cute, these
Speaker 1: little integreen gables, fairy tales that happened, or you know,
Speaker 1: any the orphan who are all just ready to be
Speaker 1: picked up and love you. It is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen people. That's not misleading is wrong. Um,
Speaker 1: And I know how I've scared many people away from
Speaker 1: being a foster parent because I get really honest and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you need to be ready for this, because
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things that I see in the
Speaker 1: system is because who are not wanted. And when I
Speaker 1: say that, I mean kids who are passed around from
Speaker 1: foster care to foster care, group home to group home,
Speaker 1: from family person one person to the next, and they
Speaker 1: learn very quickly how little they're worth. Yeah, So if
Speaker 1: you're really pro life, what does that look like? And
Speaker 1: I don't mean because you want to be given the
Speaker 1: sainthood and for bringing a child into your home. That's
Speaker 1: not how this works. This is this is difficult and
Speaker 1: whatever you think you're going through, that child has gone
Speaker 1: through even more and that's the thing is how do
Speaker 1: we help How do we help a system that does
Speaker 1: not benefit people who are in bad situations who are
Speaker 1: trying to make a life for that child, whether it's
Speaker 1: a single parent trying to figure this out and trying
Speaker 1: to get the job that they want, trying to go
Speaker 1: back to school, or trying to keep their job and
Speaker 1: not being able to be afforded helping these kids. Or
Speaker 1: when you have a school system that is so punitive
Speaker 1: that at any types of trouble they kick them out,
Speaker 1: so therefore the kids have nowhere to go even after
Speaker 1: the fact. There's so many things wrong with the system.
Speaker 1: And and and I'm going off again, However, this is part
Speaker 1: of the problem here, is like we want to talk
Speaker 1: about birthing children. Got you that happened? Now? What? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And we're talking about restricting food stamps and what they
Speaker 1: can get with food stamps. We're talking about doing drug
Speaker 1: screams for those people so they can't get food stamps,
Speaker 1: or we're talking about wick and cutting back on some
Speaker 1: of that health care. We're talking about the fact that
Speaker 1: we're taking away insurance for people. How does that help
Speaker 1: those who live and those who are alive? Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: What do we do? Why haven't we focused on that
Speaker 1: because we're placing more value and the people that have
Speaker 1: not been born yea yeah. Um. And another part of
Speaker 1: this argument that we won't go too much into, but
Speaker 1: it is very important, is the fact that um, like
Speaker 1: restrictions around getting birth control or insurance pro writing birth control,
Speaker 1: so um, the difficulty of preventing an unwanted pregnancy so
Speaker 1: that you will never have to get to this abortion
Speaker 1: because we're even having to have a definition of what
Speaker 1: is abortion with birth control exactly. And then we talked
Speaker 1: about there's already a conversation about making education abstinence only
Speaker 1: once get Oh yeah, there's so my scause. I think
Speaker 1: I just ignored it all together except for health classes
Speaker 1: we had to sign for emission form. I think that
Speaker 1: was it. Um. As well as the fact that the
Speaker 1: administration once again is pulling back um, birth control as
Speaker 1: preventive medicine. Yeah, but at medication is still free for all.
Speaker 1: Fantastic Yes. Um, A rectile dysfunction is what I mean here,
Speaker 1: because I got corrected once about it probably meaning eating disorders. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So so there's that as well. UM. And then there's
Speaker 1: also the conversation We had around racism with this because
Speaker 1: I saw a popular argument that our population is declining
Speaker 1: because of abortion. And no, just no, Um, it's going
Speaker 1: down for a lot of reasons. Hardly anyone can afford
Speaker 1: to have kids. There's no maternity leave or affordable childcare. Um.
Speaker 1: Those are just off the top of my head, like
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. Um. And it's not aborgins, it's
Speaker 1: not abortions. Um. And also this is a pretty white statistic. Um,
Speaker 1: we care when white women aren't having kids, but inversely,
Speaker 1: we don't want women of color, people of color having kids.
Speaker 1: And by we, I mean people in this country using
Speaker 1: like the role. We're not not us um. And there's
Speaker 1: a long dark history of forcibly sterilizing women of color,
Speaker 1: eugenics and abortions that we definitely need to come back
Speaker 1: and revisit. Right. And then a few years ago we
Speaker 1: had that incident in which the judge forced that upon
Speaker 1: a black woman, saying either you go ahead and get
Speaker 1: sterilized or you go to jail, as if that's a choice,
Speaker 1: and that was given to a woman of color. Right,
Speaker 1: And and here here's what I'm gonna say. This is
Speaker 1: an outright attack on people of color. I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: that as a statement. Let's be clear, the pre row
Speaker 1: legalities targeted poor or women of color, including refugees and
Speaker 1: black people, and where and is more likely to be
Speaker 1: charged and criminalized under the new laws and policies. And
Speaker 1: with that, it's already recorded. The maternity more city rate
Speaker 1: is much higher for people of color, three times more
Speaker 1: likely than any other race um according to the CDC.
Speaker 1: So I think when I say it's an attack, it's
Speaker 1: an attack because you see people who talk about welfare
Speaker 1: are of that stuff. When we see all of the
Speaker 1: languages within the legal talks, it neglects women of color,
Speaker 1: black people specifically in all of their conversations. Essentially, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's no coincidence that this is happening in states
Speaker 1: that have done their best to redistrict and restrict voting rates. Right,
Speaker 1: And there's been many comments involving Stacy Abrams and the
Speaker 1: current issues prevailing our system with suppressing voters. And as
Speaker 1: we speak, there are now forms of voting that could
Speaker 1: very easily be corrupted. The new ways of new tallying
Speaker 1: systems and the computer systems we're talking about is very
Speaker 1: dangerous about what who and what is neglected. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there is a lot at play in this conversation,
Speaker 1: and because it is emotional, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: times it just boils down to you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want abortion or I do want abortion, but you've got
Speaker 1: to think about all of this other stuff as connected
Speaker 1: to it. UM. And we do have a little bit
Speaker 1: more for your listeners, but first we have one more
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back.
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So, UM, we did wanna have kind
Speaker 1: of in our concluding segment maybe what you can do
Speaker 1: I think options, UM. But before that, I just want
Speaker 1: to say that this is really about control UM and
Speaker 1: women not being seen as people but as baby production factories. UM.
Speaker 1: And with some of the statements and extreme possible consequences
Speaker 1: that they also show a lack of concern for women
Speaker 1: situation that they're facing. The quote from Alabama bill sponsor
Speaker 1: Senator Clyde Shambliss demonstrates this because when he was asked
Speaker 1: about why the bill didn't apply to the destruction of
Speaker 1: fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization, he said, the
Speaker 1: egg in the lab does not apply. It's not in
Speaker 1: a woman. She is not pregnant. So I mean that's
Speaker 1: pretty clear that if you if he really believes that
Speaker 1: conception is at the moment of fertization, like the bill argues,
Speaker 1: it's what I'm trying to say, don't you've literally said
Speaker 1: it's not in a woman. So um, ways that you
Speaker 1: can get involved, vote, vote. I know we've kind of
Speaker 1: like put it through on the water well. I mean,
Speaker 1: and if you go and look at your stays, you
Speaker 1: can see what seats are coming up. Run. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that idea. If you have a passion, run, um.
Speaker 1: I think that that is something that is important. And
Speaker 1: if you have the you know, the clean background check
Speaker 1: um cleanish kandish cleanish will say. And also if you
Speaker 1: don't want to run, you can support someone right you
Speaker 1: believe in. You can be involved in their campaign, you
Speaker 1: can help organize um, you can donate, you can always donate.
Speaker 1: You can speak up. I know there was it was
Speaker 1: trending on Twitter, just like share your experiences, and they
Speaker 1: were trying to get men to be share their experiences
Speaker 1: as well. It sucks that the onus is always on
Speaker 1: marginalized folks to tell our stories so that people will
Speaker 1: treat us like human beings right. Yeah. Um, a lot
Speaker 1: of states have specific organizations you can volunteer for or
Speaker 1: donate to as well, so I would check that out right,
Speaker 1: And as we spoke about earlier, there's still there's still
Speaker 1: access to abortion care all over the country and none
Speaker 1: of these laws have completely come into effect yet. Um,
Speaker 1: so volunteer. There are many clinics who need people to
Speaker 1: be escorts. We already know it's scary en't have to
Speaker 1: go forward and make significant decisions in regards who wants body,
Speaker 1: but to have hate and intimidation surround you. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: can't even imagine that trauma uh having an allied support
Speaker 1: in just everyday life. I know that something that is
Speaker 1: benefited and was wanted and is asked for. And that's
Speaker 1: the way. One way that you could actually be there
Speaker 1: in the fight is to be a hand, to be
Speaker 1: a literal shield them as they walk to do something
Speaker 1: that may be already incredibly difficult and a huge life
Speaker 1: decision for them. And if not, it maybe just something
Speaker 1: they can have someone to talk to and just be
Speaker 1: there with them, because not everyone has that support system, right,
Speaker 1: I know, I say it all the time, but sex djucation,
Speaker 1: it's clear that a lot of the dude is making
Speaker 1: these laws have no idea how the female body works.
Speaker 1: Example after example of them trying to still don't understand
Speaker 1: some of the female body parts. So like that explanation
Speaker 1: of like the topic pregnancy. Oh my god. UM, so
Speaker 1: it's maybe too late for them. We should get them
Speaker 1: all in our room and just be like with you. Um.
Speaker 1: And just also in Georgia, there's a mass discussion in
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry and how they should proceed. Obviously, Georgia
Speaker 1: has become a big hub for a lot of the
Speaker 1: entertainment production companies to come through and film here, and
Speaker 1: a few of our production companies have already pulled out. Um.
Speaker 1: And I know several actors have already stated they would
Speaker 1: not be a part of any film or project that
Speaker 1: filmed in the states that have these new legislations. So
Speaker 1: Jason Bateman's already made a statement that if the Georgia
Speaker 1: law passes any of the um blocks that he would
Speaker 1: not be filming here. The Ozarks is one of those
Speaker 1: that is filmed here. Um. But so I have a
Speaker 1: like uh when it comes to stuff like that, because
Speaker 1: I understand why bands are necessary and protesting like that
Speaker 1: is necessary, but for those who live in this community,
Speaker 1: like you and myself, we need allies. So when people
Speaker 1: just abruptly leave, we lose allies, we lose any kind
Speaker 1: of stance that we really have, and we start backtracking.
Speaker 1: And I would say, in the last few elections, I've
Speaker 1: gotten a little more hopeful because we feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like we're progressing in a big way. Um. But
Speaker 1: then you look at people like Jordan Pill and j
Speaker 1: j Abrams who has a different approach which they're about
Speaker 1: to start filming here as well, and instead of pulling out,
Speaker 1: they said they would be donating their whole um profits
Speaker 1: to UH fund against these legilations. So I think that's
Speaker 1: even bigger, Like we're gonna have someone behind us with
Speaker 1: a little more money, because get our individual sales don't
Speaker 1: have the money that a lot of the politicians and
Speaker 1: a lot of these UM lobbyists do. So having people
Speaker 1: like that saying they're gonna give us money to help
Speaker 1: fight it, that's to me a better way, maybe because
Speaker 1: I live here and I want to proceed to fight
Speaker 1: for it instead of just letting it be UM. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a really hard situation. How how would you how
Speaker 1: does someone handle this without being over the top. And
Speaker 1: of course there's also the debate that um, I know
Speaker 1: the right the conservatives have said that the that the
Speaker 1: entertainment industry has its benefit this at all any way
Speaker 1: to begin with, it's just the way for them to
Speaker 1: let save money. And that's kind of true for sure.
Speaker 1: But we've also got an uptake go on um jobs, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did an episode on that a while back, because
Speaker 1: I do work in the entertainment and and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the numbers are squidgy, but I would I would argue
Speaker 1: that we have made money. It's just hard to say
Speaker 1: how much. Um, And yeah we have. We have jobs,
Speaker 1: we have new infrastructure in place. Yeah, it's I think
Speaker 1: it's worth saying. As at the top of the Planned Parenthood,
Speaker 1: I believe it says, um, abortion is still safe and
Speaker 1: it's still legal, Like, um, these are all its influx.
Speaker 1: It's happening very quickly. It This fight is in no
Speaker 1: way over right, um, and we do we need allies
Speaker 1: and um and it's not just the seuth no obviously,
Speaker 1: as we are looking around and the new bills are happening. UM,
Speaker 1: I like how it's been kind of specified as if
Speaker 1: it's just a southern issue in southern country people, but
Speaker 1: it's not. It's the thing everywhere. And as people about
Speaker 1: any of these kind of morginalized issues is global. It
Speaker 1: is um and we are now highlight get more and
Speaker 1: more because of the newest administration. However that it should
Speaker 1: be seeing this is everyone's fight, is not just one
Speaker 1: state fight. Yeah, and this this about brings us today
Speaker 1: into this episode. I know that people have very strong
Speaker 1: feelings about it, so I hope that we can continue
Speaker 1: the conversation and get some of the There's so much,
Speaker 1: there's so many things to tackle here. But I I
Speaker 1: think that this community, the people who listen to this show,
Speaker 1: I'm always so inspired, UM buy them hearing them. So
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Um, what are
Speaker 1: you doing in your state or in your country? Because
Speaker 1: we have international listeners. You know this has been very
Speaker 1: United States specific, but UM, if you would like to
Speaker 1: email us you kind and at our new email Stuff
Speaker 1: Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. All email
Speaker 1: you send to the old one will still get there eventually.
Speaker 1: You can also contact us on social media. We are
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You and on
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our
Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard and Andrew, and thanks to you
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I'm Never Told to use projection of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from
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Speaker 1: podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows