Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome
Speaker 1: to Stuff. I've never told you a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. As how Stuff works. With all of the
Speaker 1: things happening in the news around Rob Wade and abortions,
Speaker 1: we have a couple of classics that we wanted to
Speaker 1: replay in the next coming in the coming weeks, UM
Speaker 1: about about abortions because as we mentioned in our update
Speaker 1: on Rob Wade and abortion, we do have a lot
Speaker 1: of episodes that past host have recorded UM and so
Speaker 1: for this first one, we wanted to rerun the episode
Speaker 1: we did on at home abortions because for me, this
Speaker 1: is something I really knew very little about, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't I'm not even sure I knew that it was
Speaker 1: a thing that existed, UM, and it's something that is
Speaker 1: It sounds like it's a great option for some women,
Speaker 1: UM because you can basically have an abortion in the
Speaker 1: comfort of your own home. UM. But there are a
Speaker 1: lot of, as you might imagine, legalities around it, and
Speaker 1: there have been some some controversies and some less than
Speaker 1: scrupulous UH providers. So you can learn all about that
Speaker 1: and more and more in this classic episode. Please enjoy. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're listening
Speaker 1: to stuff Mom never told you so. Last month, the
Speaker 1: UK government announced that pregnant people in England would soon
Speaker 1: be able to have pill induced abortions at home if
Speaker 1: they are less than ten weeks pregnant. Today we're gonna
Speaker 1: be getting into the ins and outs of pill induced
Speaker 1: abortions sometimes called tell abortions, and the shifting regality around
Speaker 1: them in the UK and in the US. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I have to admit that when um you suggested this
Speaker 1: this topic and it was just like tiller abortions, I
Speaker 1: had no idea what it was. I thought, like, it's
Speaker 1: people calling our people calling, like robot calling hello, want
Speaker 1: a hundred abortions? Yes, it is not that. Then like
Speaker 1: a drone comes to your house and like I mean
Speaker 1: in the future, who knows, but who knows, No a
Speaker 1: tele abortion or different facets of pill and dios abortions.
Speaker 1: Although I like the idea of calling a robot and
Speaker 1: them coming to your house and having it that way,
Speaker 1: here is what a pill induced aboard shists. So, according
Speaker 1: to Planned Parenthood quote abortion pill is the popular name
Speaker 1: for using two different medicines to end pregnancy. Mytho priot
Speaker 1: Stone and miso pro stall. Your doctor or nurse will
Speaker 1: give you the first pill WLL prit zone at the clinic.
Speaker 1: Pregnancy needs a hormone called progesterone to grow normally. The
Speaker 1: fristone blocks your body's own progesterone. You'll also get some antibiotics.
Speaker 1: The abortion pill is very effective for people who are
Speaker 1: eight weeks pregnant or less. It works about nine of
Speaker 1: a hundred times for eight to nine weeks pregnant, it
Speaker 1: works about ninety six a hundred times. For nine to
Speaker 1: ten weeks, it works about three out of a hundred times,
Speaker 1: So the earlier you take it, the more effective it is.
Speaker 1: Exactly now. Home abortions were introduced in Scotland and Wales
Speaker 1: last year. Now the UK government has said that this
Speaker 1: will be legalized in England before the end of the year.
Speaker 1: According to the latest figures from Scotland, eight out of
Speaker 1: ten women are now choosing to take the final pill
Speaker 1: at home instead of in a clinic, with the Department
Speaker 1: of Health saying that they were monitoring this new evidence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot, It is a lot. Really. This whole
Speaker 1: debate seems to come down a personal preference and giving
Speaker 1: people the option of doing whatever feels right. I know,
Speaker 1: for me, I'm a kind of person who might want
Speaker 1: to take this second pill with a doctor there um,
Speaker 1: but not everybody is like that. It really I can
Speaker 1: understand why so many women are opting to do this
Speaker 1: at in a privacy, in the comfort of their own home,
Speaker 1: as opposed to with a doctor in a clinic, or
Speaker 1: they have to then figure out how they're gonna get
Speaker 1: home from there, and really that that is the crux
Speaker 1: of why this is such a big deal. So basically,
Speaker 1: when you're having an early medical abortion, you're getting these
Speaker 1: two pills roughly two days apart, and it's that second
Speaker 1: pill that triggers the abortion. Right now, women in England
Speaker 1: have to take this pill in a physically in a
Speaker 1: clinic under the direct supervision of a doctor, so a
Speaker 1: doctor or a medical professional has to watch you put
Speaker 1: it in your mouth, and then you know, you get
Speaker 1: on the train, you get in your car, whatever however
Speaker 1: you're getting home. You go home and the body does
Speaker 1: its thing at home. Now, to be clear, this process
Speaker 1: has been proven to be more or less relatively safe,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable. People
Speaker 1: who are taking this pill often experienced symptoms like pain, nausea, vomiting,
Speaker 1: and bleeding. And you know, for a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: you want to be at home, in bed or wherever,
Speaker 1: wherever it's comfortable for you to do this. You don't
Speaker 1: want to be in the back of a cab, on
Speaker 1: a subway, on a train, um, bleeding and experiencing the
Speaker 1: symptoms of this abortion from this pill that you were
Speaker 1: forced to take at some place other than your bed.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean, yes, I feel like that
Speaker 1: is something that you would want to do somewhere that
Speaker 1: you're more comfortable. Um. But I can see if you're
Speaker 1: worried about it, that maybe you would want to be
Speaker 1: in a clinic. But um, either way, I think eventually
Speaker 1: you're wants to get home and sort of deal with
Speaker 1: this exactly. I might want to do this in our clinic,
Speaker 1: But I think that's what it really comes down to,
Speaker 1: is personal choice. We shouldn't be saying you have to
Speaker 1: do it in a clinic if that's not where you
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. You know, I can understand the inclination because
Speaker 1: it's about safety and this and that, But so many
Speaker 1: of these as we know, so many of these decisions
Speaker 1: purport to be about keeping women safe, but they're really
Speaker 1: about taking away women's choices, and we should be giving
Speaker 1: women more choices. We should be giving women the freedom
Speaker 1: to decide what makes their own body feel safe and comfortable.
Speaker 1: When they're going through a process. It's going to be
Speaker 1: painful and that might be unpleasant, and we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: saying there's only one right way to do this, because
Speaker 1: that's it's not that's not what we should be doing.
Speaker 1: And so I think this is one of those situations
Speaker 1: that we talked about in our episode on benevolent sexism,
Speaker 1: where it's under this guise of protecting women, but really
Speaker 1: it's about taking away choice, and they're doing it for
Speaker 1: reasons that are not grounded in medical science. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: for women that don't live anywhere near a clinic that
Speaker 1: does abortions, this could be huge and we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit more later. According to
Speaker 1: official government figures, about one thousand abortions occur each year
Speaker 1: in England, with four and every five being a medical abortion.
Speaker 1: People can start experiencing the abortion and as soon as
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, which were some means experiencing symptoms while on
Speaker 1: public transportation are in a camp home, which is not
Speaker 1: ideal at all. Not ideal. Um. That's what happened to
Speaker 1: Claudia Craig, twenty year old women's rights campaigner an activists,
Speaker 1: after she made the decision to terminate her pregnancy yet
Speaker 1: seven weeks last year. She was forced to go the trauma,
Speaker 1: starting to bleed on her way home from the hospital
Speaker 1: and the back of a stranger's taxi cab. Here's how
Speaker 1: she describes it. It It was the shock of it all
Speaker 1: that was a bit scary, and they're not quite making
Speaker 1: it into the into the bathroom and onto the toilets.
Speaker 1: Was really unfortunate. It would have been nice if that
Speaker 1: could have been avoided. The whole way through your made
Speaker 1: to feel like you're doing something that isn't quite right.
Speaker 1: There's no reason for that. There was no reason for
Speaker 1: that kind of uncomfortable, unpleasant experience. You know, you might
Speaker 1: already be feeling a lot of feelings after getting an abortion,
Speaker 1: and it's like, why make that experience. People deserve to
Speaker 1: have medical procedures of all kinds be as comfortable as
Speaker 1: they can be. You know, if you're getting a medical procedure,
Speaker 1: whether it's an abortion or a tooth pulled odds are
Speaker 1: You're going to be anxious, You're gonna be nervous, You're
Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of feelings. Medical procedure should be
Speaker 1: done in a ways that make people feel more at ease,
Speaker 1: not less at ease. And I can't think of anything
Speaker 1: less comfortable than bleeding in a stranger's cab, just trying
Speaker 1: to get home. It's up there for sure. And because
Speaker 1: you might feel that anxiety after taking the pill, the
Speaker 1: discomfort could be heightened. Jane Dixon a consultant and sexual
Speaker 1: and reprojective health care at Anner and Bevan University Health Board.
Speaker 1: She believes the second pill could be taken by women
Speaker 1: at home. She says the pain and discomfort experience are
Speaker 1: equivalent to a natural miscarriage, but pain sensations can be
Speaker 1: heightened by anxiety and uncertainty. This is why being able
Speaker 1: to manage the experience yourself, when and where you want,
Speaker 1: with the emotional support you want, is likely to improve
Speaker 1: women's perceptions of pain. And I have to point out
Speaker 1: the decision that England made to let people take the
Speaker 1: second pill at home wasn't just a choice or a
Speaker 1: ruling Like most kinds of social progress. The change in
Speaker 1: England was the result of campaigners and advocates making a
Speaker 1: lot of noise and speaking up about this issue. The
Speaker 1: British Pregnancy Advisory Service, a UK abortion provider, has long
Speaker 1: been campaigning and advocating for home abortions to be legalized.
Speaker 1: Clara Murphy, it's director of external Affairs told The Son
Speaker 1: there is no clinical reason to deny men the option
Speaker 1: of using this medication at home. It is safe and
Speaker 1: effective to do so, which means the only grounds refusing
Speaker 1: are political. And I think she's completely right that, you know,
Speaker 1: the medical we should be making rules and regulations along
Speaker 1: medical science. And if the medical science says there is
Speaker 1: no reason why you can't hit this pull at home,
Speaker 1: it is safe, it's effective, might make you more comfortable
Speaker 1: do it, and the law saying no do it in
Speaker 1: a clinic and bleed out in a taxi cab. And
Speaker 1: I think I think she's exactly right that if it's
Speaker 1: not grounded in medical science, then it must be political,
Speaker 1: it must be social. What other explanation could there be? Yeah?
Speaker 1: The World Health Organization figures reveal that administering the second
Speaker 1: pill at home has no adverse effects on the outcome
Speaker 1: of a termination between of pregnancies were successfully terminated when
Speaker 1: it was administered at home. Now, because this law was
Speaker 1: preventing women in England from taking the second pill at home,
Speaker 1: some people were resorting to illegally buying it online and
Speaker 1: taking it at home. There Over the past three years,
Speaker 1: drug enforcement officers have seized almost ten thousand sets of
Speaker 1: abortion pills on their way to addresses. In Britain, the
Speaker 1: Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency or the m h
Speaker 1: r A, told the BBC. Kate Gasri, who works for
Speaker 1: the service Women on web dot org, which helps women
Speaker 1: who want to buy the tablets online, and told the
Speaker 1: BBC that two thousand, two hundred and twelve women had
Speaker 1: contacted her asking for abortion pills in the past eighteen months.
Speaker 1: For four months, Women on Web tracked how many women
Speaker 1: were illegally asking for these pills for four months, and
Speaker 1: of the one hundred eighty women who responded during that
Speaker 1: four month time, about half that they had difficulty accessing
Speaker 1: the NHS abortion services. Other reasons they gave for trying
Speaker 1: to get these pills illegally were things like distance and
Speaker 1: waiting times, and other things like just not being able
Speaker 1: to get childcare or time at work for instant. Linda
Speaker 1: not her real name, a thirty one year old living
Speaker 1: in Scotland, said I already have three kids and I
Speaker 1: am a single working mum. I do not have the
Speaker 1: funds to pay for the childcare while in the hospital.
Speaker 1: I really need to do this in my own home.
Speaker 1: Another of women said they were worried their abortion might
Speaker 1: not be kept confidential and wanted to keep their abortion
Speaker 1: a secret from a violent partner or controlling family member.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of reasons why besides comfort, that
Speaker 1: people would want to do this at home, as this illustrates,
Speaker 1: and UM, I do think that if it's medically safe,
Speaker 1: it should be available for women who want to go
Speaker 1: that way. UM. And we do have some a little
Speaker 1: bit of ripple ripple effects out to the United States
Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about of tele abortion. But
Speaker 1: first we're going to take a quick break for a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Okay.
Speaker 1: In the United States, at home abortions UM are a
Speaker 1: new battlefield, especially with the prospect of an increasingly conservative
Speaker 1: Supreme Court and uncertainty around Roe v. Wade, which is
Speaker 1: why many turned to tele abortion that's right. Abortion via
Speaker 1: telemedicine has been available in the United States since two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, when the first formal program began in Iowa.
Speaker 1: So how this works, Like, what makes this the tele
Speaker 1: part of a tele abortion? A patient in one clinic
Speaker 1: confers via video conference with a doctor and another clinic
Speaker 1: and then receives abortion pills. Now, this satisfies a federal
Speaker 1: requirement that the doctor quote dispense the pill to a
Speaker 1: patient in a clinic office or hospital. Video conferencing is
Speaker 1: also a useful way to sort of women in remote
Speaker 1: or rural areas, but opponents have responded quickly, prohibiting abortion
Speaker 1: via telemedicine in twenty states since eleven. In one of
Speaker 1: those states, Iowa, the state Supreme Court reversed the band. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And as I've mentioned before on this show, I think
Speaker 1: I grew up in a really small town, and I
Speaker 1: remember the big deal it was when there was talk
Speaker 1: of our hospital closing because there were no other There
Speaker 1: were no other closer hospitals, I mean that were like
Speaker 1: reasonably close. And I hear so often about like medical
Speaker 1: deserts where there's nothing nothing nearby, And I think that
Speaker 1: video conferencing and these other ways that we can connect
Speaker 1: to healthcare and maybe get an abortion pill. It can
Speaker 1: be extremely useful, definitely. I used to work for a
Speaker 1: news organization called Rewired News and they've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of interesting um work around reproductive healthcare, especially in
Speaker 1: places like the Ozarks, um and the Appalachia. And honestly,
Speaker 1: we should do a whole episode about this. But the
Speaker 1: different alternative ways of getting healthcare to people who need it. One,
Speaker 1: I'm shocked at the resilience that that people have gone
Speaker 1: to get healthcare. There's there's things like vans that will
Speaker 1: drive to you to give you basic services. Um, there's
Speaker 1: video conferencing, but to it just reminds us that there
Speaker 1: are medical landscape is so severely lacking in so many places,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times these places that you've just described,
Speaker 1: these rural communities, places like the Ozarks, Appalachia, that's where
Speaker 1: the need is greatest. And so it just it it
Speaker 1: boggles the mind. I'm I'm uh full disclosure. I am
Speaker 1: recording this in New York, New York City right now,
Speaker 1: and I'm going on a trip tomorrow. And I was
Speaker 1: able to walk out of my hotel in New York
Speaker 1: and there were four urgent care clinics on the street.
Speaker 1: So it was like I was looking at three of them.
Speaker 1: I went into one, I waited for ten minutes, and
Speaker 1: I was out right like when you compare that to
Speaker 1: the experience of someone who's living in the ozarks or
Speaker 1: a rural community, I mean, it's just it boggles my mind,
Speaker 1: you know. And everybody needs healthcare, everybody gets sick, everybody
Speaker 1: needs needs care at some time. But just the inability
Speaker 1: of folks to access really basic services, it's it's really,
Speaker 1: it's it's sad, it's it's a failure on the part
Speaker 1: of our country. Yeah, I mean people were afraid when
Speaker 1: the hospital possible, who is going to shut down? People
Speaker 1: were really I could just hear in their voice the
Speaker 1: anxiety of what would we do if it happened I
Speaker 1: have this issue or of that issue. Yeah, I can't afford.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have the time. I can't afford
Speaker 1: to like drive this far to the next hospital. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are places in the United States where if you
Speaker 1: want to get an abortion that you have to travel
Speaker 1: so far just to get too clicks because they're shutting down.
Speaker 1: And again, when we have these places where, like you said, Annie,
Speaker 1: just getting access to healthcare is such a tough thing.
Speaker 1: We should be looking at ways to make that less tough.
Speaker 1: And so you might be thinking, well, then why don't
Speaker 1: they just make the abortion pill that you can get
Speaker 1: it over the counter. If if it's so hard, like
Speaker 1: why maybe they should deregulate it where people can get
Speaker 1: access to it if it's safe and it's something people need.
Speaker 1: But that's not what we're doing. We're doing the opposite. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A lawsuit filed last year argues medication abortions should be
Speaker 1: offered by prescription at the local drug store, and this
Speaker 1: could amount to a seismic shift in abortion access. Kauai
Speaker 1: doctor Graham Chilius, who bought the suit with the American
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Union, the a c l U and several
Speaker 1: healthcare associations, called the restriction medically unnecessary and burdensome because
Speaker 1: Kauai lacks a single abortion clinic. Chilias said he'd like
Speaker 1: to stock myfi pristone but cannot because of the f
Speaker 1: d A restriction. Quote, So if one of my patients
Speaker 1: wants to enter pregnancy, she has to fly to a
Speaker 1: different island one fifty miles away to get this care.
Speaker 1: In the United States, the FDA regulates a PRIX under
Speaker 1: a set of rules called Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategy
Speaker 1: are e m S. Because of these mandates, only health
Speaker 1: care providers who have pre registered with the manufacturer of
Speaker 1: mio Prex and stuck the abortion pill in their health
Speaker 1: care facility may hand patients the medication. In a paper
Speaker 1: titled sixteen years of over regulation, Time to Unburdened mill
Speaker 1: for Prex, published in April in the New England Journal
Speaker 1: of Medicine, leading clinicians and public health experts argue that
Speaker 1: the FDA restriction was medically unnecessary, and a CLU attorneys
Speaker 1: noted that leading medical groups, including the American Congress of
Speaker 1: Obstetricians and Gynecologists, support making the pill available by prescription
Speaker 1: at pharmacies. Quote overwhelming medical experience and decades of clinical
Speaker 1: experience show medication abortion to be safe and effective method
Speaker 1: to end of pregnancy. Dr Paul Blumenthal, director of the
Speaker 1: Gynecology Service at Standard University, said in a statement, there's
Speaker 1: simply no medical justification for these restrictions, and they create
Speaker 1: needless and harmful burdens for women seeking this care. Um again,
Speaker 1: but that that sounds so much like what's going on,
Speaker 1: what was going on in England where it's clear from
Speaker 1: medical professionals and medical research that there is not a
Speaker 1: reason for creating more barriers and more rules around how
Speaker 1: people can get access to this care and the way
Speaker 1: that is right for them. If we understand that some
Speaker 1: folks are in situations where there aren't a ton of clinics,
Speaker 1: or maybe you're just busy and you can't get to
Speaker 1: a clinic, we should be making access to this care easier,
Speaker 1: and these doctors agree, but we're not doing that. Nope.
Speaker 1: And because of that, people have resorted to buying the
Speaker 1: pills online, just like they do in the UK. And
Speaker 1: we're going to talk more about that when we get
Speaker 1: back from one more quick break forward from our sponsor
Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So, yeah, here in
Speaker 1: the United States, just like in the United Kingdom, women
Speaker 1: are trying to get these pills by buying them online.
Speaker 1: Olga Chasm at The Atlantic did a really comprehensive piece
Speaker 1: back in July called elite abortion will mean abortion by
Speaker 1: Mail that summarized a lot of the current climate around
Speaker 1: obtaining abortion pills online. Yeah, the piece is fascinating and
Speaker 1: I cannot recommend that folks readed enough. We'll link out
Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. But it's it's really
Speaker 1: really interesting in terms of where we're at with abortion
Speaker 1: by pill and where we're going. So the reasons why
Speaker 1: women in the United States might be looking to get
Speaker 1: the pill online are pretty much what you might expect
Speaker 1: and are very similar to what's going on in the UK.
Speaker 1: Cost restrictive laws, and personal preference. Abigail Keane, an assistant
Speaker 1: professor of public Affairs at the University of Texas off
Speaker 1: Sin conducted interviews with thirty two people from twenty states
Speaker 1: who sought out abortion pills online for a study called
Speaker 1: Why US Presidents Seek Abortion Medication Online. She found that
Speaker 1: women turned to mail order abortions because the clinic based
Speaker 1: abortion was too expensive, or because state restrictions around abortion
Speaker 1: like waiting periods and ultrasound laws were too onerous, and
Speaker 1: some just preferred the privacy and convenience of doing their
Speaker 1: own abortion at home. But as you might imagine, buying
Speaker 1: pills online, especially if there's kind of this aura of
Speaker 1: secrecy around it, um can be a little tricky. It
Speaker 1: can be a bit of a risk. You don't know
Speaker 1: what you're gonna get. That is all I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: If you've ever bought like an outfit from one of
Speaker 1: those very cheap but very suspicious looking websites online where
Speaker 1: it's like a picture of Chloe Kardashian looking amazing and
Speaker 1: addressed and that same dresses and then you buy it,
Speaker 1: I got experience. Mine was a pleather leggings that did
Speaker 1: not look anything like what I was what I was promised.
Speaker 1: If you've ever had that experience, as I'm sure some
Speaker 1: of you have, buying abortion pills online can be very similar. Um.
Speaker 1: This report talked about how the websites are often riddled
Speaker 1: with typos, that transactions don't seem very trustworthy. And this
Speaker 1: is not an experience that sort of you know, inspires
Speaker 1: confidence in your abortion. No, I have to say one
Speaker 1: one thing that I immediately gets me like, raises my
Speaker 1: my haunches. It's like my Spidey sense. That's it. Um?
Speaker 1: Is it like typos and font choice in any kind
Speaker 1: of like you might want to keep this a secret,
Speaker 1: like any sort of thing like that. I'm a little honage,
Speaker 1: little suspicious. I'm gonna say I'm probably not the only one.
Speaker 1: There was a study published earlier this year called exploring
Speaker 1: the feasibility of obtaining mythopriss Stone and MISA prostall from
Speaker 1: the Internet. Elizabeth Raymond, a senior medical associate at the
Speaker 1: research organization Dinuity, googled phrases like by abortion pills online,
Speaker 1: which it seems like a pretty good phrase to type
Speaker 1: in first step one. The researchers ended up ordering eighteen
Speaker 1: of the pill combinations from sixteen different websites, none of
Speaker 1: which required a prescription. The pills came from India, where
Speaker 1: there is a large generic drug industry. Shipments costs between
Speaker 1: a hundred and ten to three hundred and sixty dollars,
Speaker 1: and the packages took between three days and three weeks
Speaker 1: to arrive. Two buyers received troubling communications from product vendors.
Speaker 1: One warned about the legality of purchasing online quote please
Speaker 1: do not share this info with any other side because
Speaker 1: investigation team is searching the details for this type of medicine.
Speaker 1: And in the second case, the vendor complained that he
Speaker 1: was unable to get payment from the online payment platform
Speaker 1: and threatened to withhold shipment until the buyer paid another way.
Speaker 1: After some convincing, he finally sent the product In addition,
Speaker 1: one buyer who paid with Western Union received two fraud
Speaker 1: alert calls, one from Western Union advising against purchasing pharmaceuticals online,
Speaker 1: and another from her credit card company. Raymond also noted
Speaker 1: that some of the blister packs of pills arrived broken.
Speaker 1: She says this might be due to the fact that
Speaker 1: the shippers are afraid that custom service would be able
Speaker 1: to field with the packaging and see that there are
Speaker 1: pills in there, so they crushed the blister pack, which,
Speaker 1: if you're trying to get medicine, a little worrying. It's
Speaker 1: a little troublesome. Although the mythoprit his own pills contained
Speaker 1: the expect of an out of medications, most of the
Speaker 1: pills contained less than the labeled dose. Now they might
Speaker 1: still work even at a lower dose, she says. But
Speaker 1: what's more, none of the pills came with any instructions
Speaker 1: or how to use them. So this experience does not
Speaker 1: seem like one that is necessarily on the up and up.
Speaker 1: Will say, but it is an experience that people in
Speaker 1: the United States turned to. Yeah and um. Women can
Speaker 1: be arrested for trying to end pregnancies outside of a
Speaker 1: medical capacity. The s I a legal Team, a group
Speaker 1: of lawyers who specialize in women who induce their own abortions,
Speaker 1: knows of twenty one people who have been arrested or
Speaker 1: prosecuted for ending their pregnancies outside a medical setting or
Speaker 1: for helping someone else to do it. It might be
Speaker 1: an undercount since the organization relies on news reports to
Speaker 1: track these cases. The charges brought against women whose self
Speaker 1: abord can range from child abuse to the abuse of
Speaker 1: a corpse to a failure to report a death, says
Speaker 1: Jill Adams. She is si AS chief strategist. So what's
Speaker 1: interesting is none of these women were actually prosecuted simply
Speaker 1: for the act of buying abortion pills specifically, But Adams
Speaker 1: points out that fine pills online and even googling things
Speaker 1: like buy abortion pill can leave a paper trail that
Speaker 1: is then used as evidence in these cases. In seven states,
Speaker 1: self induced abortion is illegal, and you might have heard
Speaker 1: in A woman in Indiana named perb Patel was sentenced
Speaker 1: to twenty years in prison for fet aside after she
Speaker 1: allegedly used abortion pill she ordered online. Prosecutors claimed for
Speaker 1: fetus had been born alive and she allowed it to die.
Speaker 1: Her conviction was later overturned in an appeal, so we
Speaker 1: can kind of get a sense that this is a
Speaker 1: desperate situation for a lot of people out there. I mean,
Speaker 1: people don't just turn to these fishy online websites that could,
Speaker 1: you know, get you arrested for no reason for fun.
Speaker 1: This is clearly a very very desperate situation for a
Speaker 1: lot of folks out there. And yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: why it's sort of important to get a lay of
Speaker 1: the land in terms of where where we're at with
Speaker 1: this issue in the United States, as it seems like
Speaker 1: we are getting closer and closer and closer to a
Speaker 1: more conservative Supreme Court. If Supreme Court Justice nominee Brett
Speaker 1: Cavanall is confirmed, it's not impossible that Roe v. Wade
Speaker 1: could be overturned. You know, we could be in a
Speaker 1: very very different landscape when it comes to reproductive justice
Speaker 1: and reproductive freedom and reproductive access um very soon. So
Speaker 1: it's important to understand sort of where we're at and
Speaker 1: where we could be on this issue. Yeah, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: we need to. I mean, if we're making it where
Speaker 1: women are seeking out these illegal pills because other options
Speaker 1: are closed to them, or because they are afraid that
Speaker 1: they will be closed to them. There's just a lot
Speaker 1: of things that this should get us thinking about and
Speaker 1: talking about, and things that we could improve so that
Speaker 1: this isn't happening. That what is already a difficult medical
Speaker 1: experience medical choice um doesn't have to be more difficult.
Speaker 1: That's really the thing that gets me is that any
Speaker 1: medical procedure is kind of a drag. We should not
Speaker 1: be making it more difficult to access less comfortable. We
Speaker 1: should only be regulating things that are you know, medically sound,
Speaker 1: based on medical information, not anything else. And I just
Speaker 1: people deserve to have their medical procedures, whether it's an
Speaker 1: abortion or an appendectomy, people deserve to have them with
Speaker 1: dignity and in comfort. Agreed. Agreed. We would love to
Speaker 1: hear from from folks in the UK about their experience,
Speaker 1: if they have, if they have any insights or thoughts
Speaker 1: on that. And speaking of hearing from listeners, it's time
Speaker 1: for listener mail. Debbie Route. I'm a service engineer for
Speaker 1: a high end nanotechnology company and my job has me
Speaker 1: on the road literally every day. I'm home every other
Speaker 1: weekend most of the time, and spend more time in
Speaker 1: airports than I do in my own house. I traveled
Speaker 1: domestically as well as internationally intoically alone, which I love.
Speaker 1: The question I get most often from friends and family
Speaker 1: who think I'm crazy is but how do you eat?
Speaker 1: Do you eat at restaurants alone? Insert horrified phase here?
Speaker 1: Yes I eat food. Sometimes I eat food and restaurants,
Speaker 1: And yes I eat food and restaurants alone. I don't
Speaker 1: get why this is such a huge hang up for people.
Speaker 1: You know what you get when you're eating alone. Whatever
Speaker 1: you're damn well please, and that's in all caps. I
Speaker 1: want to eat the same Shinese takeaway four days in
Speaker 1: a row. I'm gonna eat those delicious spring rolls four
Speaker 1: days in a row. If I want to go out
Speaker 1: for a fancy dinner, I get to pick the bottle
Speaker 1: of wine that I really want, not share the best
Speaker 1: bites of food with anyone, and have a wonderful evening
Speaker 1: chatting with the staff, enjoying a great view of whatever
Speaker 1: city I'm in. I find that, once you get over
Speaker 1: yourself and realize that no one is judging you, and
Speaker 1: if they are, they have way too much time and
Speaker 1: energy on their hands, eating out alone is really a
Speaker 1: relaxing experience. There's something so wonderfully luxurious about sitting alone
Speaker 1: in a lovely restaurant, drinking glass of wine, snacking on
Speaker 1: top of us and not worrying about keeping up a conversation.
Speaker 1: Are looking sexy while eating? You can take as long
Speaker 1: as you want to finish your meal, order nothing but
Speaker 1: espresso and dessert, and just enjoy where you are. Dining
Speaker 1: alone is my time to unwind after a crazy week,
Speaker 1: and I love it. Yes, there are plenty of hassles
Speaker 1: that come with traveling while female. Don't get me started
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, But as long as you go
Speaker 1: into it with the right mindset, solo travel is safe
Speaker 1: and empowering experience that I encourage every woman to undertake.
Speaker 1: I love this because I get that all the time.
Speaker 1: To um eating alone as if what is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: How can you do it? And I actually remember when UM,
Speaker 1: there was this big kerfuffle of like us, I don't know,
Speaker 1: articles coming out about neils are eating alone? What's it
Speaker 1: going on? Societies ending? I UM, but it it can be.
Speaker 1: It can be really lovely and relaxing experience. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: hard to get over that first initial like table for one, UM,
Speaker 1: but I I actually had a wonderful experience with this
Speaker 1: recently that turned into not eating alone. But because I
Speaker 1: was sitting alone, people came and sat with me that
Speaker 1: I'd never met and never would have talked to in
Speaker 1: my life, and it it worked out wonderfully. So you
Speaker 1: never know, um, that it can be really wonderful experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I our lives, thank you for writing in Our
Speaker 1: our Lives sound very similar. Um. I have to travel
Speaker 1: domestically quite a bit for just for work staff. So
Speaker 1: I'm often in a on a train or on a plane,
Speaker 1: and so I am often in new cities, often eating alone.
Speaker 1: And you really, like you said, like the after the
Speaker 1: initial sort of whatever anxiety you feel about it, you
Speaker 1: really get used to it and it's quite a lovely experience,
Speaker 1: you know. I I a lot of my good friends
Speaker 1: are work in the restaurant industry because I so often
Speaker 1: eat alone, and it's like you make friends and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Um. I really enjoy it too. Honestly, some
Speaker 1: of the letters that we've got, it makes me think
Speaker 1: that we should do an entire episode on just women alone,
Speaker 1: you know, traveling alone, eating alone? What are other things
Speaker 1: people do alone? Um that people think that's weird? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that so many women wrote in
Speaker 1: about doing things that society says that you should do
Speaker 1: with a partner alone. And I think I think there's
Speaker 1: something like going to the movies alone, which I which
Speaker 1: is like my favorite activity in the world. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I am. I am in heaven. Nothing like my version
Speaker 1: if I have no plans on a weekend, My version
Speaker 1: of heaven is to pick two we either to like
Speaker 1: weird movies that no one would ever want to see
Speaker 1: except for me. And maybe that's maybe that's show uh,
Speaker 1: like a ten hour documentary about the Holocaust. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: am a mia to like, you know, it could be
Speaker 1: it could be anything but just going to see a movie,
Speaker 1: sneaking in my candy and just like being in heaven
Speaker 1: not having to look at my partner and being like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I dragged them to this and they
Speaker 1: hate it and they hate me and this is awkward
Speaker 1: and it's a bad day, blah blah blah. Like being
Speaker 1: free of all of that and just like being in
Speaker 1: a movie alone, liking it or not liking it. It's
Speaker 1: like I'm in I'm in heaven. It's my it's my
Speaker 1: happy place. But I do think there is something around
Speaker 1: doing these things that we, especially women, have been conditioned
Speaker 1: for so long that you do them with a romantic partner,
Speaker 1: and if you do them alone, you're a freak. People
Speaker 1: are reclaiming that and saying, actually, I love eating alone.
Speaker 1: Actually I love traveling alone. Actually I love going to
Speaker 1: the movies alone. Actually I love doing sports alone. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, we're definitely moving that way. And it has
Speaker 1: been interesting because it is sort of younger folks doing
Speaker 1: it more, I think, or at least that was what
Speaker 1: the starting wave was. And so when those when I
Speaker 1: was sitting eating all own recently, the people that came
Speaker 1: and sat with me were these older gentlemen who could
Speaker 1: not fathom he would choose to eat alone. But we
Speaker 1: actually we had a great conversation from that, and really
Speaker 1: it was a great experience. It was a great experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think that if you look at
Speaker 1: the numbers we're getting, we're marrying less and less and
Speaker 1: things like things that used to be markers of kind
Speaker 1: of being successful adults, marriage, car ownership, homeownership, We are
Speaker 1: sort of less tether to those things. So I think
Speaker 1: that has something to do with it. It's a shifting
Speaker 1: the shifting priorities of young people, and that young people
Speaker 1: are much more likely to prioritize experiences over things, and
Speaker 1: so you know, we would value like a lavish trip
Speaker 1: more than you know, say, owning a BMW. And I
Speaker 1: think I think it's just I think it's just a
Speaker 1: reimagining of how we live our lives and actually relates
Speaker 1: to our next letter. Sanantha wrote, I just listened to
Speaker 1: the podcast about solo traveling. I was in France at
Speaker 1: the same time as you. It was really exciting seeing
Speaker 1: your Instagram post as I was finishing out my first
Speaker 1: solo journey and my first time abroad. I spent two
Speaker 1: half weeks in Switzerland and then two weeks in South
Speaker 1: France solo before meeting my parents in Paris. It definitely
Speaker 1: felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity that passed
Speaker 1: me by before for many reasons, and I'm really glad
Speaker 1: I finally got to do it. I enjoyed listening to
Speaker 1: the podcast about how you and Annie talked about society
Speaker 1: not being okay with women traveling solo. I've done some
Speaker 1: internship stuff around the US, so a lot of my
Speaker 1: family members and family friends assumed that I was doing
Speaker 1: another internship thing, or at least going with a friend.
Speaker 1: When I responded to the who are you going with
Speaker 1: question with the words myself, I always got a confused
Speaker 1: look and maybe the words you're braver than I am.
Speaker 1: While flattering, I also feel conflicted about this kind of reaction.
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure why it bothered me, although it
Speaker 1: is in part because I was always labeled as a
Speaker 1: shy kid, and despite me growing up, it seems like
Speaker 1: everyone is surprised when I do something adventurous. I also
Speaker 1: want to say, in a cheesy way, I do feel
Speaker 1: like this trip changed me too. I feel more confident,
Speaker 1: particularly in social situations, and more excited about future possibilities
Speaker 1: to try new things, meet new people, and see new places.
Speaker 1: I'm currently in my second year of working toward a
Speaker 1: PhD in math, and I'm hoping this new confidence will
Speaker 1: stick with me through the challenges I faced this semester um.
Speaker 1: If it sounds like I'm smiling my head off while
Speaker 1: I'm reading this letter, it's because I am. Um. Samantha,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for writing in. It's so cool
Speaker 1: that we were in France together alone for at the
Speaker 1: same time. It's almost like we were there together, but
Speaker 1: you know apart, Um, yeah, I mean soli travel. I
Speaker 1: completely agree that it did make me feel more confident.
Speaker 1: And I'm I love the idea of you sort of
Speaker 1: shirking this label of like, oh you're just a shy,
Speaker 1: sweet kid and saying no, I can I can do
Speaker 1: adventurous things that can be by myself. I can talk
Speaker 1: to strangers in Paris and make friends with them. And
Speaker 1: I I really really hope that you bring that good
Speaker 1: energy into your studies. It sounds like you're kind of
Speaker 1: poised to really tap into whatever that that thing that
Speaker 1: made you feel so confident and good on your own
Speaker 1: in France. It sounds like you're poised to bring that
Speaker 1: back to your to your real life and to your
Speaker 1: work as a PhD student. By the way, PhD and
Speaker 1: math very rad. Yes, yeah, this is this letter just
Speaker 1: makes me very happy. Yes, Um, I've gotten that, like
Speaker 1: you're braver than I am response to And I think
Speaker 1: the reason for me that it's it's annoying in a
Speaker 1: weird way because it's almost like dismissive, as if it
Speaker 1: just comes more naturally to you. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: I appreciate like the thought behind it but I understand
Speaker 1: the kind of weirdness there of like I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1: But thanks to both of them for writing in. If
Speaker 1: you like to write us, you can. Our email is
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com, and as always,
Speaker 1: you can find us on social media. Were on Instagram
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Ever Told You and on Twitter at mom
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast. And thanks to our producer Andrew Howard.