Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Today is the seventy five anniversary of the
Speaker 1: Hartford Circus Fire, so today we are revisiting our March
Speaker 1: eleven episode on that tragedy. And this fire has been
Speaker 1: in the news lately, both because of the anniversary and
Speaker 1: because of efforts to potentially use DNA evidence to try
Speaker 1: to figure out the identities of some of the unidentified
Speaker 1: victims of the tragedy. There are currently five unknown victims
Speaker 1: buried at Northwood Cemetery, and court proceedings regarding the potential
Speaker 1: exhimations of those bodies are ongoing. Welcome to Stuff You
Speaker 1: Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radios
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to the podcast Act
Speaker 1: And I'm Polly Frying. And today we have another frequent
Speaker 1: listener request, which is the Hertford Circus Fire. We've gotten
Speaker 1: a lot of request for it before, and then every
Speaker 1: time we talk about a fire, it seems like people
Speaker 1: have for more fires. So we've gotten lots of requests
Speaker 1: for this one. And there are actually lots of books
Speaker 1: about the Hartford Circus Fire, and they don't agree with
Speaker 1: each other in some pretty fundamental ways. They draw really
Speaker 1: vastly different conclusions about everything from who started the fire,
Speaker 1: if anyone deliberately started it, and the identity of the
Speaker 1: most famous unidentified victim. There's just a lot of discrepancy
Speaker 1: between them all. And I really didn't relish the idea
Speaker 1: of reading through multiple books that were effectively quarreling with
Speaker 1: each other about what happened. So I took a little
Speaker 1: bit of a different tech when researching this article, and
Speaker 1: that was that instead of reading lots of books, I
Speaker 1: read historical newspapers that were published at the time of
Speaker 1: this tragedy, and I followed the story as it happened.
Speaker 1: So most of the information in today's episode comes from
Speaker 1: the New York Times and the Boston Globe, which was
Speaker 1: then the daily Boston Globe as it was reported and
Speaker 1: on the day uh and I didn't have access to
Speaker 1: the archive fives of the Hartford Current, which would be
Speaker 1: the logical paper to read because it was the local
Speaker 1: paper to where this tragedy happened. Um, but I did
Speaker 1: read some of their more recent coverage of retrospectives and
Speaker 1: updates and things like that. So we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the Hartford Circus fire. So the Ringling Brothers and
Speaker 1: Barnamin Bailey Circus, which we are just going to kind
Speaker 1: of shorten to Ringling Brothers or Ringling for the sake
Speaker 1: of simplicity as needed, so we're not whipping out a
Speaker 1: huge phrase every time we have to reference. It was
Speaker 1: filled with about eight thousand people in Hartford, Connecticut on
Speaker 1: July six nine, and the big top at the circus
Speaker 1: was big, really big. I mean the name the name
Speaker 1: was suitable for this one. It was six hundred feet
Speaker 1: long and two ft wide, so that's about twenty by
Speaker 1: sixty and it weighed twenty tons. While it had about
Speaker 1: eight thousand people in it on this particular day, it
Speaker 1: could hold up to twelve thousand. Because this was World
Speaker 1: War Two, most of the men of Hartford were either
Speaker 1: away fighting or they were working multiple shifts at nearby factories,
Speaker 1: so overwhelmingly the people in the audience were children, mothers,
Speaker 1: and grandparents. The show started at two in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: added about two forty a big cat show in the
Speaker 1: center ring had just wrapped up. The famous Flying Wallenda's
Speaker 1: were starting their high wire act up above, and people
Speaker 1: started to notice a flame working its way up the
Speaker 1: side of the tent near the men's restroom by the
Speaker 1: main entrance. The fire spread extremely quickly. By the time
Speaker 1: a trio of ushers got there with buckets of water,
Speaker 1: it was already too big for them to put out.
Speaker 1: Almost simultaneously, people started yelling fire and the band switched
Speaker 1: to playing Stars and Stripes, forever known in the business
Speaker 1: as the disaster March and used to signal that there
Speaker 1: is an emergency. People in the top rows of the
Speaker 1: bleachers jumped down into the straw that was below them
Speaker 1: and made for the exits, or went out under the
Speaker 1: tent sidewalls. The people who were up in the top
Speaker 1: of the bleachers were all fared better than the people
Speaker 1: who were lowered down for that reason, because the people
Speaker 1: who were closer to the floor got caught in the
Speaker 1: resulting stampede. Parents and entertainers literally threw children over animal
Speaker 1: cages that were blocking the exits. Some of them cut
Speaker 1: their way out of the tent with pocket knives. The walenda's,
Speaker 1: at risk of being trapped above the fire, slid down
Speaker 1: ropes to the ground. The performers exit was blocked by
Speaker 1: the crowd, so they headed for one of the exits
Speaker 1: blocked by animal cages. Some climbed over, while others tried
Speaker 1: to feed some of the crowd through the animal shoots
Speaker 1: that would lead out of the tent. Famous clown Emmett Kelly,
Speaker 1: who was in his sad tramp clown roll of Weary Willie,
Speaker 1: was actually part of the Wilenda's act. While they did
Speaker 1: their work up in the top of the tent, he
Speaker 1: would run around below them with a little butterfly net.
Speaker 1: When he heard people screaming, he thought that one of
Speaker 1: them Wilenda's had fallen, and so he looked out and
Speaker 1: saw that the tent was on fire. He ran back
Speaker 1: to his dressing room to grab the buck it's that
Speaker 1: he would use to clean himself up after the show
Speaker 1: was over, and he filled them with water at a
Speaker 1: horse trough. Then he ran back in to try to
Speaker 1: put the fire out. He threw the water onto the
Speaker 1: burning tent, but it was far too late. The fire
Speaker 1: was much too big to be put out by a
Speaker 1: couple of buckets, so instead he tried he started trying
Speaker 1: to evacuate children from the tent. The blaze was very
Speaker 1: close to the main entrance, so he started trying to
Speaker 1: guide people to a side exit that was not on fire.
Speaker 1: Some of the kids were actually scared of him. They
Speaker 1: were scared anyway, but then they were scared because this
Speaker 1: clown was talking to him. But he did get as
Speaker 1: many of the kids around him as he could to safety,
Speaker 1: and then he saw that the fire was getting close
Speaker 1: to a set of gas engines that operated some of
Speaker 1: the circus equipment, so he refilled his buckets and tried
Speaker 1: to soak the canvas near the engines as much as possible,
Speaker 1: hopefully making them less likely to catch fire. Then he
Speaker 1: escaped from the tent himself. There are actually pictures of
Speaker 1: him at Kelly still in his makeup, carrying buck it's
Speaker 1: that were taking the day of the fire uh and
Speaker 1: that led to this event being nicknamed the Day the
Speaker 1: Clowns Cried. Another heroic act by one of the entertainers
Speaker 1: came from big cat trainer make Covar. She was at
Speaker 1: the center of the tent where her animal act had
Speaker 1: just concluded. There was still a panther in the metal
Speaker 1: cage that was part of the big Cat show, and
Speaker 1: she knew that if she didn't get both herself and
Speaker 1: the panther out and then secure all the cages of
Speaker 1: the other big cats who were part of the show,
Speaker 1: that they had the potential to break loose in all
Speaker 1: of the chaos and cause more injuries and deaths, not
Speaker 1: surprisingly if you have ever spent time around animals that
Speaker 1: are panicked. Uh, This terrified panther balked at going down
Speaker 1: the chute that led back to its cages outside. It
Speaker 1: was just terrified. So Covar used a whip, which was
Speaker 1: really part of her costume and not part of how
Speaker 1: she handled animals, to try to hurt it into the shoot,
Speaker 1: and once it was on its way, she realized that
Speaker 1: she was trapped. The escaping crowd had packed against the
Speaker 1: door leading out of the cage, so she escaped by
Speaker 1: following the panther down the exit shoot, and then she
Speaker 1: got the big cat's cage is secure so that they
Speaker 1: could not escape into the crowd. The big top collapsed
Speaker 1: behind her, and this had only been about ten minutes
Speaker 1: since the fire started, and it burned so hot that
Speaker 1: it literally melted the tent poles and the animal cage
Speaker 1: that was at the middle of the center ring. As
Speaker 1: the tent fell on fire, it trapped a lot of
Speaker 1: people who were still inside trying to escape, although none
Speaker 1: of the circus employees were killed, possibly because they knew
Speaker 1: they could get out of just about any part of
Speaker 1: the tent by going under the sidewalls. Many were badly
Speaker 1: burned as they tried to get others to safety and
Speaker 1: as they formed bucket brigades to try to extinguish the fire.
Speaker 1: Since no animals were in the tent and the fire
Speaker 1: didn't spread to the side show or the menagerie, no
Speaker 1: animals were hurt or killed in the blaze. A hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty eight people died, Half of them were chilled aldren,
Speaker 1: and a third of them were ages nine and younger.
Speaker 1: Only a handful of those lost were adult men. Four
Speaker 1: entire families died, and the children of five other families
Speaker 1: were orphaned. There were also six hundred and eighty two injuries.
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about sort of the aftermath
Speaker 1: and how Hartford responded to this tragedy. After we take
Speaker 1: a little break, uh and have a word from a sponsor,
Speaker 1: so to return to the city of Hartford. Army and
Speaker 1: Navy forces were deployed to the scene of the fire,
Speaker 1: along with three hundred ambulances and fifteen hundred Red Cross volunteers.
Speaker 1: Red Cross involvement with the victims of this disaster actually
Speaker 1: went on for almost a year. State guardsmen were deployed
Speaker 1: as well. A shipment of six blood plasma converters was
Speaker 1: flown in from Boston, and the doctors who worked with
Speaker 1: the burn patients credited this increased availability of plasma with
Speaker 1: saving many lives. Morgue was set up at the Hartford
Speaker 1: Armory and bodies were laid out in the hopes that
Speaker 1: next of kim would be able to identify their families.
Speaker 1: But the fire burned so hot that some of the
Speaker 1: bodies inside were essentially cremated already, and it melted some
Speaker 1: of the steel girders that held up the tent. There
Speaker 1: was a series of investigations. State Policy Commissioner Edward J. Hickey,
Speaker 1: acting as State Fire Marshal, issued a report that blamed
Speaker 1: not only the Ringling Brothers staff responsible for the tent,
Speaker 1: but also the city of Hartford for not having inspected
Speaker 1: the circus or the tent beforehand. Part of the report read,
Speaker 1: no arrangements were made or requested by any representative of
Speaker 1: the circus for firemen or for firefighting equipment to be
Speaker 1: in attendance upon the circus grounds during any performance. The
Speaker 1: Hartford Fire Department did not detail any fireman or assign
Speaker 1: any firefight firefighting apparatus to be an attent at the
Speaker 1: circus grounds during any of the performances. That's where the
Speaker 1: quote ends. The only inspection of the circus that the
Speaker 1: city had conducted was on the part of the Building
Speaker 1: Supervisor's office, which had judged that the erection of the tent,
Speaker 1: the bleachers, and the exits was satisfied satisfactory, which was
Speaker 1: the same as in previous years. So aside from that,
Speaker 1: the big Top itself was highly flammable. It had been
Speaker 1: waterproofed using paraffin that was dissolved in gasoline, and that
Speaker 1: was actually a pretty common method of waterproofing materials at
Speaker 1: the time. When testifying in the investigation, then Ringling President
Speaker 1: Robert Ringling claimed that he hadn't been able to find
Speaker 1: a material that was both waterproof and fireproof because the
Speaker 1: nation was at war, so resources were in high demand
Speaker 1: and low availability. He also claimed that the war had
Speaker 1: left the circus shorthanded, which is why there were fewer
Speaker 1: firefighters on staff. Another report filed by Frankie Healy named
Speaker 1: seven employees of the circus responsible for the fire. James A. Hailey,
Speaker 1: vice president, George W. Smith, general manager, Leonard S. Aylesworth,
Speaker 1: Chief tentman, David W. Blanchefield, chief truckman, Edward W. Vierstig
Speaker 1: chief electrician, William Kyley, chief seatman, and Samuel Clark seatman.
Speaker 1: The two seatmen were supposed to remain under the bleachers
Speaker 1: during the show, and if they had been there, chances
Speaker 1: are one of them would have seen the fire when
Speaker 1: it was much smaller and stomped it out, which would
Speaker 1: have prevented the whole disaster. The Ringling Brothers Circus as
Speaker 1: a corporation was also charged with involuntary manslaughter along with
Speaker 1: all seven men, Although the charges against Clark were eventually dropped.
Speaker 1: All seven of the men and the circus pleaded no contest.
Speaker 1: Their defense counsel maintained that they were innocent, but we're
Speaker 1: pleading no contest to avoid a lengthy trial. He also
Speaker 1: claimed that they were all essential to the circus resuming
Speaker 1: operations in order to try to get a lighter sentence.
Speaker 1: It probably sounds callous that they were also justed in
Speaker 1: returning to work, but one of the reasons that they
Speaker 1: were so eager to resume circus operations is that stopping
Speaker 1: the show was costing the circus about ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a day, and possibly believing that doing so would get
Speaker 1: them more leniency. The circus had agreed to take full
Speaker 1: responsibility for the fire and to pay all of the
Speaker 1: claims that were brought against it. Although the circus was ensured,
Speaker 1: this insurance wasn't enough to pay off all of the claims,
Speaker 1: which early estimates put out a million dollars, it turned
Speaker 1: out to actually be a lot more. So they weren't
Speaker 1: just saying we have to return to work as a
Speaker 1: way to get out of it, like they genuinely needed
Speaker 1: to return to work to make enough money to be
Speaker 1: able to pay off these lawsuits. A superior court judge
Speaker 1: permitted the circus to collect its property and leave town
Speaker 1: on July fourteenth of ninety four, and it returned to
Speaker 1: its winter quarters in Sarasota, Florida, to regroup and return
Speaker 1: to work so it could pay off its remaining debts
Speaker 1: to the victims. Arbitration took six years. The Arbitration Board
Speaker 1: A had nearly four million dollars to five fifty one claimants.
Speaker 1: The average award was around seven thousand dollars, although they
Speaker 1: ranged from a thousand dollars to a hundred thousand. A
Speaker 1: professional dancer named Catherine R. Martin was burned over fifty
Speaker 1: of her body and was hospitalized for six months, and
Speaker 1: she received the largest settlement. Patricia Murray, who was five
Speaker 1: at the time of fire, lost both of her parents
Speaker 1: and her three year old brother, and she was awarded
Speaker 1: ninety thousand dollars. And as we talked about in our
Speaker 1: episode on Katie Sandwina, this is often cited as the
Speaker 1: first Chapter eleven bankruptcy case, but the official classification of
Speaker 1: Chapter eleven didn't really come around until later. However, the
Speaker 1: structure was quite similar. In what became known as the
Speaker 1: Hartford Arbitration Agreement, the circus went into receivership, promising to
Speaker 1: put all of its profits towards paying the claims and
Speaker 1: not incur any unusual expenses until all of that was
Speaker 1: paid off. And we didn't say in the Katie Sanduina
Speaker 1: episode that it specifically was the Hartford Circus fire that
Speaker 1: we were referencing, but it was, you were curious. Hartford
Speaker 1: lawyer Edward Rogan was named as the receiver and he
Speaker 1: took over financial operations for the circus while the circus
Speaker 1: continued to operate during the proceedings of the arbitration. At
Speaker 1: this time, this was a completely new strategy for a
Speaker 1: business that was dealing with extreme financial dress happens a
Speaker 1: lot more often nowadays. This really set the president for it.
Speaker 1: The circus finally left receivership in July of nineteen fifty four,
Speaker 1: when the court authorized payments to Rogan and Julius B. Shots,
Speaker 1: who had served this as the circus's council. Shots received
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars and Rogan received sixty thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: a fraction of his original two hundred and twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand dollar request. A sort of a side note, while
Speaker 1: overseeing the circus's financial affairs, Rogan also reported that, in
Speaker 1: spite of the Hartford tragedy, the nineteen forty four season
Speaker 1: was at that point the best season in the Ringling
Speaker 1: Brothers circus history. Along with many other governments, in the
Speaker 1: wake of this fire, the Connecticut General Assembly later passed
Speaker 1: extremely strict fire safety measures for tent circuses. Ringling Brothers
Speaker 1: and Barnamin Bailey didn't return to the state for years,
Speaker 1: and they didn't return to Hartford for decades. When the
Speaker 1: circus tried to arrange an appearance in East Hartford in
Speaker 1: ninety four, the city refused. They flatly said no, and
Speaker 1: so the circus did not return to Hartford until the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. It's still not completely clear what caused the fire.
Speaker 1: Initial results blamed a carelessly tossed cigarette. Later theory was
Speaker 1: a short circuit in the wiring in the men's room,
Speaker 1: and another theory is that it was deliberately set. The
Speaker 1: city has at various points reopened the case to re
Speaker 1: examine the evidence, and there have also been people that
Speaker 1: have more re examined all the evidence as a personal hobby. UH.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty in Ohio, man named Robert D. Siege
Speaker 1: Uh we're guessing on that pronunciation because we could not
Speaker 1: find one online that was definitive, claimed that he had
Speaker 1: set the fire deliberately, saying that he was aroused about
Speaker 1: at the circus at the time. He claimed that he
Speaker 1: had been told to do this by a hallucination of
Speaker 1: quote a red Indian. And while he had pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to other arson charges in Circleville in the Circleville, Ohio
Speaker 1: area and served time for those offenses, he was never
Speaker 1: actually charged in the Hartford Circus fire. And in the end,
Speaker 1: investigators were generally doubtful that he had actually been involved.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of inconsistencies and holes in his statements,
Speaker 1: and some of his claims regarding other crimes were kind
Speaker 1: of outlandish, and he did later recant his confession. If
Speaker 1: you go poking around on the internet, or if you
Speaker 1: have previously poked around on the internet, you will find claims,
Speaker 1: some of them on pretty reputable websites, that he served
Speaker 1: time in Ohio for the Hartford Circus fire. The time
Speaker 1: he served in Ohio was actually for other crimes that
Speaker 1: were committed in Ohio and not for the Hartford Circus fire.
Speaker 1: And all of this seems to come from a misunderstanding
Speaker 1: in a high school students paper, which perhaps the more
Speaker 1: recent writers who have used it as a resource didn't
Speaker 1: realize it's by a high school student. I'm not missing
Speaker 1: high school students. This paper, overall I've read, is extremely good.
Speaker 1: Um and the news coverage at the time of this
Speaker 1: guy in his confession, a lot of it is worded
Speaker 1: very confusingly because he is framed as the man who
Speaker 1: confessed to the Hartford Circus fire, so it's sort of
Speaker 1: the man who claim who who confessed to the Harvard
Speaker 1: Circus fire serves time. He was serving time for something else, right, Uh.
Speaker 1: And there is also around this case a sort of
Speaker 1: famous unidentified victim. There several actually, and we're gonna delve
Speaker 1: into their stories after we take a little break and
Speaker 1: have a word from a sponsor. So today, there is
Speaker 1: a memorial in Hartford, Connecticut, and the middle of it
Speaker 1: is where the center pole of the big Top stood.
Speaker 1: Around the perimeter there are several dogwood trees that note
Speaker 1: where the perimeter of the tent would have been. There's
Speaker 1: also a monument listing the names of the people who
Speaker 1: died and several plaques that give a timeline of what
Speaker 1: happened during the fire. There's also a memorial at Northwood
Speaker 1: Cemetery for the victims of the fire who were not identifying.
Speaker 1: Three unidentified children and three adults were buried there on
Speaker 1: July tenth of nineteen forty four, and an unidentified baby
Speaker 1: was cremated. And I didn't put it in here, but
Speaker 1: the Northwood Cemetery is not actually in Hartford proper. It's
Speaker 1: in like a neighboring community. Only one of these six
Speaker 1: bodies that were buried at Northwood cemetery has ever been identified,
Speaker 1: and this was an eight year old girl who died
Speaker 1: in the fire and came to be known as little
Speaker 1: Miss fifteen sixty five, after the number that she was
Speaker 1: assigned at the morgue. She wasn't identified for years after
Speaker 1: the fire. She had been trampled darrying the stampede as
Speaker 1: people tried to escape. She died of her injuries about
Speaker 1: three hours after being found, but since her face wasn't
Speaker 1: very badly burned, they were hopeful that her family would
Speaker 1: find her. Her features were really recognizable, and her picture
Speaker 1: was published in the newspapers. Her story really caught the
Speaker 1: hearts of a lot of people who were following the
Speaker 1: tragedy as it unfolded, especially as the attention kept returning
Speaker 1: to her case to try to identify who she was,
Speaker 1: and police theorized that her family must have been new
Speaker 1: to the area and that her parents must have been
Speaker 1: killed in the fire, or perhaps some other family had
Speaker 1: mistaken a different badly burned body as their own child,
Speaker 1: leaving little Miss fifteen behind. The search for little Miss
Speaker 1: fifteen sixty five family went on for months. Her picture
Speaker 1: was in papers in Hartford, Boston, New York, and other
Speaker 1: Northeastern cities. There were calls that came in from all
Speaker 1: over New England from people who claim aimed that she
Speaker 1: was their relative, but they didn't pan out that various
Speaker 1: things didn't match up. I think they were using dental records,
Speaker 1: and dental records didn't match. For decades, Hartford police brought
Speaker 1: flowers to the grave at Christmas and on the anniversary
Speaker 1: of the fire, and the coverage of that tradition would
Speaker 1: start this cycle of letters and calls about little Miss
Speaker 1: fifteen sixty five all over again. In so almost fifty
Speaker 1: years after the fire, Hartford Fire Lieutenant Rick Davey identified
Speaker 1: little Miss fifteen sixty five as Eleanor Cook. He interviewed
Speaker 1: surviving family members of various filmies and the hope of
Speaker 1: finding out who this little girl was. He also did
Speaker 1: a lengthy reinvestigation of the fire itself. Eleanor's surviving brother, Donald,
Speaker 1: who was nine at the time of the fire and
Speaker 1: was there but escaped, confirmed her identification and the reason
Speaker 1: that she hadn't been identified at the time of the
Speaker 1: event was that her mother, Mildred Cook, had been so
Speaker 1: badly burned in the fire that she was conscious for
Speaker 1: weeks and she ended up hospitalized for six months. Her son, Edward,
Speaker 1: was six and he had also died in the fire,
Speaker 1: and once Mildred was well enough to leave, she was
Speaker 1: too traumatized to look for her daughter's body. An amended
Speaker 1: death certificate was issued for Eleanor on March eight, and
Speaker 1: her remains were reinterred next to her deceased brother, where
Speaker 1: the gravestone had previously marked an empty grave. However, there
Speaker 1: are still people who actually question this identification, in part
Speaker 1: because other members of the family had said little misfifteen
Speaker 1: sixty five was not Eleanor at the time of the fire.
Speaker 1: In fact, this had made Donald reluctant to ask about it.
Speaker 1: He worried that he would upset his mother or his
Speaker 1: aunt who had made the initial identification. In a weird
Speaker 1: recent twist, upon his retirement, Hartford fire Captain William Pond
Speaker 1: destroyed the photos of her that had hung in the
Speaker 1: firehouse of Engine Company fourteen for more than twenty five years,
Speaker 1: saying he was afraid that her soul would never find
Speaker 1: rest otherwise. Uh. Following letters to the editor after this
Speaker 1: are kind of divided about whether that was the right
Speaker 1: thing to do or not. Yeah, I mean I I
Speaker 1: would have questions of like, was this something that a
Speaker 1: decision that he made solely on his own or were
Speaker 1: other people involved. He seems to have been trying to
Speaker 1: get other uh fire department leadership to to take it
Speaker 1: down for a long time and and was shut down
Speaker 1: every time he asked about it, and so he did
Speaker 1: it himself as he was retiring, figuring he was untouchable
Speaker 1: at that point. Bye, that that seems to be. That
Speaker 1: is what I would read into it. Yes, huh so, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's sort of an odd coda to that whole story.
Speaker 1: There are definitely, yeah, there are definitely some unanswered questions
Speaker 1: that will probably remain forever about the fire and exactly
Speaker 1: what happened. But it was definitely a tragedy. It definitely
Speaker 1: led to some much more stringent rules, especially about ten
Speaker 1: circuses in particular. Thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: on this Saturday. If you have heard an email address
Speaker 1: or a Facebook you are l or something similar over
Speaker 1: the course of today's episode, since it is from the
Speaker 1: archive that might be out of date now, you can
Speaker 1: email us at History Podcast at how stuff Works dot com,
Speaker 1: and you can find us all over social media at
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