Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. One
Speaker 1: of the weird things about US history is that we
Speaker 1: have strange names for wars. We call the Civil War
Speaker 1: the Civil War, which is a weird dame if you
Speaker 1: think about it, for any sort of war, especially one
Speaker 1: that bellicose and bloody. Here's a fact you may not
Speaker 1: know about the Civil War. There are over four hundred
Speaker 1: solidly documented cases of women disguising themselves as men and
Speaker 1: fighting as soldiers on both sides of the conflict, the
Speaker 1: Union and the Confederacy. Welcome to Ridiculous History. My name
Speaker 1: is Ben, my name is Knoel, and Ben, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and get this out of the way,
Speaker 1: get out of my system right up front, sort of
Speaker 1: like Mulan. You're getting something out of your system. Like No, No,
Speaker 1: this this case of like the women dressing up like
Speaker 1: so they could fight in the war, kind of like Mulan.
Speaker 1: Which is how about to have a live action adaptation?
Speaker 1: Quite excited. This episode is not brought to you by
Speaker 1: the Disney Corporation. No, but it's an interesting distinction, Ben,
Speaker 1: because a lot of folks women dressed up in men's
Speaker 1: clothing and passed as men in order to either escape
Speaker 1: a harsh life and get the relatively stable life of
Speaker 1: a soldier, which gave you three square meals a day,
Speaker 1: roof over your head, et cetera. I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, you had to put your life on the
Speaker 1: line for some folks that might have been preferable to
Speaker 1: the conditions they were living in before that. Um, this
Speaker 1: story that we're talking about today is a little different
Speaker 1: because the individual that's the center of this story is
Speaker 1: someone who continued to go on living as a man
Speaker 1: after the war was over. That's correct, That's correct. And
Speaker 1: we want to be very clear here. Science shows that
Speaker 1: gender as it is commonly understood is largely a social construct,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to share with you today the story
Speaker 1: of Albert Cashier, who fought for the Union in the
Speaker 1: US Civil War and was a trans man before before
Speaker 1: we continue, I can't believe we got this far in
Speaker 1: the episode without shouting out our super producer, Casey Pegram. Now, Casey,
Speaker 1: you're not what people would describe as a Civil War
Speaker 1: buff especially, is that correct? That's correct? Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: really too heavily invested in that. What was that four
Speaker 1: hour Civil War film? The Civil War, Gettysburg. Gettysburg. Wasn't
Speaker 1: there one that? Probably ten or twelve? Okay? So okay, Well,
Speaker 1: like I was thinking of of a high account Civil
Speaker 1: War documentary. Um. I love how skin Burns his documentaries
Speaker 1: are so like authoritative, They're just like jazz baseball the
Speaker 1: Civil War. I want him to go a little more
Speaker 1: of fields sometimes, you know, I wish he just did
Speaker 1: very very specific things, you know, like mascots. That'd be good.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what it's very very specific about ken
Speaker 1: Burns is his haircut. Have you seen it? It's like
Speaker 1: a very uh interesting twist on the bowl cut. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's lived in his life. He is living his life.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you else was living their lives is
Speaker 1: Albert Cashier, who was born on December eight, forty three
Speaker 1: in a fantastically named Cloggerhead County. Maybe it's claw for head.
Speaker 1: There's a g h sound. What do you think, Ben,
Speaker 1: we learned our lesson about Gaelic. Let's just spell it
Speaker 1: c l O g h e r head. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with clover Head. That's what I'm gonna shoot for um,
Speaker 1: And that is in the County of Louth. Luth, Luth,
Speaker 1: I would I would, I would Hazard? It is Luth,
Speaker 1: you would Hazard did this Luth. Let's see what four
Speaker 1: vo has to say about this. Loud the robot voice
Speaker 1: has spoken. Louth is what we shall go with today
Speaker 1: for the purposes of this story. So yeah, County of Louth, Ireland.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing, or the I guess galling thing
Speaker 1: about the story is that there isn't that much that
Speaker 1: we know about this person's life. And the things that
Speaker 1: we do know come from a recorded account when Cashier
Speaker 1: was going through the throes of dementia back in nineteen thirteen. Um.
Speaker 1: But we are going to do our best piece together
Speaker 1: what we do know about this fascinating individual and their
Speaker 1: bravery and their life rights. So the account comes when
Speaker 1: Cashier is seventy years old and suffering from a bit
Speaker 1: of mental deterioration with age. Here's what we know. So
Speaker 1: Cashier was born in Ireland, as you said in eighteen three,
Speaker 1: immigrated to illan away at a very young age, sometime
Speaker 1: in childhood, but exactly when is not clear, as a
Speaker 1: cast or as a stowaway on a ship to first
Speaker 1: two I want to say England London, and then carried
Speaker 1: on to New York City, and from his teenage years
Speaker 1: Cashier was living as a man, and he did so
Speaker 1: until his death at age seventy one. So the account
Speaker 1: we have comes one year before he passes away, and
Speaker 1: his story is remembered because of his service in the
Speaker 1: Civil War. Cashier is one of many, many people who
Speaker 1: were living their lives in a way that was largely
Speaker 1: unacknowledged by the public, by the communities through which they moved.
Speaker 1: And that's that's a problem that continues today throughout the
Speaker 1: throughout the world, throughout the species. But in Cashier's case,
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam itself infirmed or affirmed would be a better word,
Speaker 1: this male identity. We know that at some point after immigrating,
Speaker 1: Cashier was given men's clothing by an uncle or stepfather,
Speaker 1: with the idea being that, you know, hey, kid, wear
Speaker 1: this and you can get a job at this shoe factory.
Speaker 1: And that's where that's where Albert adopts the name Albert Cashier.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to you that there's this idea of of
Speaker 1: cooperation from a you know, member of the patriarchy that
Speaker 1: was that would potentially have had a problem with this
Speaker 1: and uh caused uh, you know, a lot of difficulties
Speaker 1: for this this young person at the time. UM. But
Speaker 1: the account that we have is that the uncle or
Speaker 1: stepfather was in fact cooperative and helpful and helped helped Albert,
Speaker 1: you know, mask his assigned gender identity and uh, secure
Speaker 1: work at a shoe factory. Um. And that's where he
Speaker 1: took on the name Albert Cashier so that he could work.
Speaker 1: And he lived by himself and he kept to himself.
Speaker 1: And that's something that he would continue doing once he
Speaker 1: listed in the Union Army in eighteen sixty two. UM.
Speaker 1: He would shower on his own, he would change into
Speaker 1: his you know, from his uniform on his own, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't seen as being particularly strange, right, Like, that
Speaker 1: was pretty common according to some of the records that
Speaker 1: we've seen for other soldiers to do that. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like a big boys club kind of locker room situation,
Speaker 1: right right. And for the record, eighteen sixty two, that
Speaker 1: makes Albert nineteen when joining the Union. So here's what
Speaker 1: we know for certain. On August sixth, eighteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: nineteen year old Albert Cashier was a resident of Belvedere, Illinois,
Speaker 1: and enlisted in the ninety five Illinois infantry. Like you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Noel Albert was known to keep mostly to
Speaker 1: himself and the only thing people really called out about
Speaker 1: or busted chops about with him was that he was
Speaker 1: the shortest person in the squad. But he passed the
Speaker 1: medical exam, which only consisted of looking at like things
Speaker 1: like teeth and I guess arches, you know, make sure
Speaker 1: he didn't have any bone spurs or anything. I guess
Speaker 1: um and the ability to wield rifle. Those are the
Speaker 1: things that there was no looking at. The private bits
Speaker 1: right right. Cashier was also known for being the silent type,
Speaker 1: not not super extroverted, but being very, very brave in
Speaker 1: the field of battle. We also found that correspondencies from
Speaker 1: the time suggest Cashier had a significant other during the war,
Speaker 1: and like many other soldiers on both the Union and
Speaker 1: Confederate sides of that conflict, Cashier wrote to this significant
Speaker 1: other that was the Morey family, um he kept in
Speaker 1: contact with in Babcox Grove, Illinois. Cashier's regiment participated in
Speaker 1: over forty uh engagements battles in the war um They
Speaker 1: were part of the Army of the Tennessee, and that
Speaker 1: included the Siege of Vicksburg, the Red River Campaign, battles
Speaker 1: in Kennesaw Mountain, and Jonesboro, Georgia very near where we
Speaker 1: are here in Atlanta, and also the Battle of Nashville,
Speaker 1: and he survived. In fact, he also, uh, there's a
Speaker 1: story that isn't very detailed, but he supposedly was captured
Speaker 1: at one point, and he more or less just was
Speaker 1: a badass and like knocked over his captor and ran
Speaker 1: on foot all the way back to his his camp
Speaker 1: and escaped, and all the while avoiding being detective. He
Speaker 1: was even treated for diarrhea once and was able to
Speaker 1: kind of like wiggle his way out of getting inspected
Speaker 1: in any kind of way that would have given away
Speaker 1: his secret. And that capture was in eighteen sixty three
Speaker 1: during the Siege of Vicksburg. In maybe so Cashier serves
Speaker 1: a three year enlistment with his regiment until they are
Speaker 1: mustard out honorably discharged on August sixteenth of eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 1: To put in perspective how amazing it is for anyone
Speaker 1: to survive this sort of conflict. Out of the regiment,
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty nine soldiers died due to death
Speaker 1: on battlefield or due to disease, because I thought it
Speaker 1: was interesting that you mentioned the idea of joining a
Speaker 1: military to get three square meals a day. That is
Speaker 1: the case now right in the in the U. S.
Speaker 1: Military and most Western militaries. You will be you will
Speaker 1: be fed, you will have a place to sleep. It
Speaker 1: may not be ideal, but you will have those things.
Speaker 1: This was not always the case in the Union and
Speaker 1: Confederate armies. People were fighting for ideological reasons. At least
Speaker 1: the people, the people on the ground. And Albert's reputation
Speaker 1: continues well after the war. His brothers and arms remember
Speaker 1: this guy that they thought was, you know, kind of short,
Speaker 1: but so brave. It was plucky, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: he undertook dangerous assignments. He was admired for his heroic actions,
Speaker 1: his bravery, and he was somewhat of an enigmatic, fascinating
Speaker 1: figure because he never seemed to get a serious injury.
Speaker 1: He was blessed in some way, very much so. And
Speaker 1: that reputation um carried over into his life after the war,
Speaker 1: where he continued to keep to himself. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it makes sense that he would do that because too
Speaker 1: many questions are getting too close to anybody could have
Speaker 1: opened the door to him being discovered, which could have
Speaker 1: robbed him of his pension. That's another thing that is
Speaker 1: a positive aspect of being in the military. You get
Speaker 1: paid even after your service, of which he did the
Speaker 1: full term, by the way. So he moved back to
Speaker 1: a small community in Illinois where he had immigrated to
Speaker 1: originally and was like a pillar of the community. People
Speaker 1: you know, didn't really know too much about him, but
Speaker 1: he was like regarded as a very good citizen and
Speaker 1: treated with respect and no one invaded his privacy. And
Speaker 1: during this time he had many odd jobs, including like
Speaker 1: he was like a lamplighter for the city. I think
Speaker 1: he was a custodian at a hospital, and he also
Speaker 1: worked for a lawmaker. He found himself working for Senator
Speaker 1: Ira Lash And that is when things kind of started
Speaker 1: going downhill for Cashier when the Senator, the honorable Senator,
Speaker 1: accidentally hit Cashier with his car and broke his leg,
Speaker 1: forcing him to be taken to hospital and examined. Right
Speaker 1: and at this time, you know, as as we said,
Speaker 1: he was a respected established member of the unity. He
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't like a Boo Radley type shut in
Speaker 1: from Harper leaves to kill a mocking bird. He he
Speaker 1: was known, he was active. He wore his uniform all
Speaker 1: the time and buttoned up to his neck, apparently to
Speaker 1: hide the fact that he did not have an Adam's apple.
Speaker 1: That's correct, and you can read an excellent source on
Speaker 1: this from Irish Times dot com when Jenny Came Marching Home.
Speaker 1: An Irish Woman's Diary on Albert Cashier in the US
Speaker 1: Civil War by Nora id Mcalife. So let's fast forward November.
Speaker 1: The Senator hits Cashier with his car. Albert at this
Speaker 1: point is sixty seven years old. His leg is broken,
Speaker 1: goes to hospital, as you said, and the hospital, the
Speaker 1: staff of the hospital learns the sex assignment. They agree
Speaker 1: that they are not going to betray of the trust.
Speaker 1: This is. This is a a bunch of doctors and
Speaker 1: medical professional again, incredibly progressive and super helpful and very
Speaker 1: lucky in the string of like lucky events that has
Speaker 1: led this person to have not been exposed for sixty
Speaker 1: seven years of their life. Um, but yeah, there's there.
Speaker 1: They all that they can't all be good eggs because
Speaker 1: once he has treated he is then he doesn't really
Speaker 1: have any much money other than his pension. He can't
Speaker 1: really work anymore, so he's sent to a place called
Speaker 1: the Soldiers and Sailors Home in Quincy, Illinois, where he
Speaker 1: is going to convalesce um and stays there for a
Speaker 1: few years. He stays there for a few years. In
Speaker 1: that amount of time, he starts to get the onset
Speaker 1: of that dementia that we mentioned the top of the show,
Speaker 1: and that's when he's sent to this is a horrible term,
Speaker 1: but this is what it was referred to at the time,
Speaker 1: a state hospital for the insane, and there his sex
Speaker 1: assignment is discovered again and they aren't so kind about it. No,
Speaker 1: the Senator Lish intervened and Lish, from what we could tell,
Speaker 1: is the person who actually disclosed the sex assignment of
Speaker 1: Albert Cashier and warned the staff of this state hospital
Speaker 1: to keep the information a secret. But these two male
Speaker 1: nurses forced Albert to wear a dress and then took
Speaker 1: the information public and the media got ahold of it,
Speaker 1: and the story went national. And at this time, remember
Speaker 1: we mentioned the pension earlier. At this time, the Veterans
Speaker 1: pension Board gets gets wind of this, and they instead
Speaker 1: of recognizing the soldier's duty and the fact that they
Speaker 1: did the full term right of of their enlistment. Instead
Speaker 1: of recognizing that, the Veterans Pension Board begins to investigate
Speaker 1: Albert for fraud. And keep in mind, keep in mind,
Speaker 1: to this point, Albert is sixty nine, seventy years old
Speaker 1: and suffering from this cognitive decline. They go on to
Speaker 1: say they had insult injury in saying that there's no
Speaker 1: way this old elderly person within their frail state could
Speaker 1: have possibly been the heroic soldier who fought in the war.
Speaker 1: And also because of obviously the fact that they're female. Um,
Speaker 1: but again really progressive thinking at this time, his compatriots,
Speaker 1: you know, from his army days, come to his aid
Speaker 1: and back up his story and say, no, this was
Speaker 1: the guy that's and we don't care or I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's not I mean, obviously they would have heard the
Speaker 1: stories and they would have had to come to his
Speaker 1: aid for a reason, and so they had to have
Speaker 1: like not cared. This was national news, national news. They
Speaker 1: had to have like not held a grudge or you
Speaker 1: would think that you know, uh, maybe they would have
Speaker 1: felt betrayed or something like that, or allied to but
Speaker 1: instead they seemed to see through to the truth of
Speaker 1: the matter and come to his defense, and the the
Speaker 1: board decided to continue paying out his pension as they
Speaker 1: should have. Yeah, assented, because think about this, Think about
Speaker 1: the time in which this debate is occurring. What are
Speaker 1: you going to do, as the Veteran Board if other
Speaker 1: veterans come to you and say, essentially, you were insulting
Speaker 1: the entire concept of serving in the military and you
Speaker 1: are not holding up your end of the bargain, and
Speaker 1: this is heartbreaking. So Albert's fellow soldiers vouch for him
Speaker 1: and raise enough of a stink and attention that the
Speaker 1: Veteran Board does continue these pension payments. But Albert is
Speaker 1: still lost in this place and declared insane. Albert fights
Speaker 1: the best way he can. Uh. He takes the skirts
Speaker 1: that he's forced to wear and he ties them up
Speaker 1: with safety pins so he can form pants out of them.
Speaker 1: But Albert trips one day, breaks a hip, and eventually
Speaker 1: dies on October, age seventy one. I know this sounds
Speaker 1: like down red folks, but we promise you we do
Speaker 1: have a happy ending of sorts. Yeah, there's definitely a
Speaker 1: really powerful legacy left behind. Let's also not forget that
Speaker 1: the conditions that he was exposed to our direct result
Speaker 1: of a time before mental health reform, where you know,
Speaker 1: the idea of being insane practically relegated you to you know,
Speaker 1: forced confinement and very little actual treatment, and you know,
Speaker 1: sort of just being almost abandoned and left to rot.
Speaker 1: You know, there's all these these stories we know about
Speaker 1: the conditions and quote unquote mental asylums. You know, insane
Speaker 1: asilence is what this would have been considered, and they
Speaker 1: were absolutely horrible and in humane. Here is the bitter
Speaker 1: suite powerful ending. When Albert Keshier passes away, he has
Speaker 1: given a full military funeral. He is buried in uniform,
Speaker 1: the uniform he always dressed even after the war. There
Speaker 1: is a gravestone erected to him. The gravestone does not
Speaker 1: read Jenny Hodgers. The gravestone reads Albert D. J. Cashier.
Speaker 1: Six years later, the headstone has changed such that both
Speaker 1: names are there, the original name and then Albert's name.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about them? I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I I don't know how he would feel about because
Speaker 1: wondering why they why they chose to do that. Was
Speaker 1: there some kind of outcry that like forced that's just
Speaker 1: such an odd choice to me. Yeah, as well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, because we know that Albert definitely did not
Speaker 1: have a say and that you know. Uh, but here's
Speaker 1: the thing. The town in Illinois where Albert is buried,
Speaker 1: they remember him today. You can go to Sonomon, Illinois,
Speaker 1: and you will see US and Irish flags flying side
Speaker 1: by side at the home of Albert D. J. Cashier,
Speaker 1: very modest, one bedroom home that you can, I believe, tour.
Speaker 1: The mayor will also give you a tour. It makes me,
Speaker 1: it makes me, uh, I don't know. It's kind of
Speaker 1: heartwarming to think that you can go to this small
Speaker 1: town and you can call up the mayor and they'll say, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll take you over to the house. I'll you know,
Speaker 1: I'll even walk you to the grave. It's it's heartwarming
Speaker 1: to me that you can literally call up the mayor
Speaker 1: of the town and they'll take you on a tour.
Speaker 1: That's pretty neat. It is pretty net and um, I
Speaker 1: I have to be honest, I was unaware of this story,
Speaker 1: but clearly some people were, because there is in fact
Speaker 1: a Broadway musical, or a Broadway style musical um about
Speaker 1: the life of Albert Cashier. That came out in seventeen
Speaker 1: and I got pretty great reviews and played at the
Speaker 1: Seven Stage seven seventy three in Chicago. Having anything about
Speaker 1: a Broadway run, but I'd be very interested in seeing this.
Speaker 1: It's called The Civility of Albert Cashier by j. Paul
Speaker 1: Derratani and the score is by Joe Stevens and Keaton Wooden.
Speaker 1: And here's a little blurb from one of the cast
Speaker 1: members by the name of Delia Crop quote. In so
Speaker 1: many ways, Albert's story is a true American one, a
Speaker 1: soldier who served their country and wanted nothing more than
Speaker 1: personal liberty to live life as they wished to. Which,
Speaker 1: when you put it that way, how much more American
Speaker 1: can you get? What else do you want? That's a
Speaker 1: that's personal freedom right. And even though the practice of
Speaker 1: the law doesn't adhere to the letter of the law
Speaker 1: near as often as I think we would all like,
Speaker 1: it is inspirational. It doesn't matter who you are, you
Speaker 1: should be inspired by this. As we mentioned earlier, Albert
Speaker 1: Cashier was not the only person in this situation. And
Speaker 1: there is an important distinction to make here. More than
Speaker 1: two fifties Civil War soldiers were assigned female at birth.
Speaker 1: Most of those soldiers are assumed by historians today to
Speaker 1: have been sis gender women in disguise for the purpose
Speaker 1: of getting around army regulations. Mulan like mulan. So some
Speaker 1: would fight to be close to their significant other or
Speaker 1: their spouse. Uh, some were straight up trying to escape slavery, right, which,
Speaker 1: of course, who could blame him? And so that's that's
Speaker 1: sort of the point we made earlier, where it's like,
Speaker 1: the conditions that would maybe cause someone to look at
Speaker 1: military service as a better alternative to the life they're
Speaker 1: leading before those previous conditions had to be pretty rough.
Speaker 1: Slavery would certainly be one of them. Abject poverty, things
Speaker 1: like that, an abusive relationship or a home situation, you know,
Speaker 1: would make one seek out any alternative, and the army
Speaker 1: was certainly one of those. And while Albert Cashier was
Speaker 1: a transman and trans soldier fighting in the Civil War, Uh,
Speaker 1: this story doesn't stop here, Christine Jorgensen. It's actually the
Speaker 1: first American trans woman who was widely known for having
Speaker 1: a sex reassignment surgery. And and this goes back a
Speaker 1: little bit farther right. No, yeah, I mean call the
Speaker 1: Cashier story a precedent if you will, UM or just
Speaker 1: call it kind of a spiritual successor. But Jorgensen, who
Speaker 1: was in the army UM in and she during that
Speaker 1: time she learned about UM the possibility of getting sexual
Speaker 1: reassignment surgery, and she started to get that process underway
Speaker 1: in Denmark in nineteen fifty one. And when she came
Speaker 1: back to the US in the early nineteen fifties, it
Speaker 1: became kind of a pretty hot button story when the
Speaker 1: New York Daily News reported it with the headline x
Speaker 1: G I becomes blonde bombshell. She documented her life extensively.
Speaker 1: She became a huge figure in the trans community early
Speaker 1: days of the trans community. Um and was you know,
Speaker 1: made appearances on talk shows, She toured college campuses talk
Speaker 1: about her transition in her life living as a trans woman.
Speaker 1: She became an actress, a nightclub performer, and she was
Speaker 1: very very sharp witted and um She passed away in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. Um and she referred to her impact
Speaker 1: on the sexual revolution as having given it a good
Speaker 1: swift kick in the pants. It's kind of kick started.
Speaker 1: And there's already been an indie movie made about Jorgensen.
Speaker 1: And also additionally, Edwoods Glenn or Glenda definitely tried tried to,
Speaker 1: let's say, take inspiration from Christine Jorgensen's story, But these
Speaker 1: stories are important to remember, and we also want to
Speaker 1: acknowledge that the struggle, the search for validation, recognition of
Speaker 1: your own identity, and the right to live as you
Speaker 1: wish is a fundamental part of being a human being.
Speaker 1: So thankfully Albert Cashier, despite the social climate and discrimination
Speaker 1: of the time, was able to get the recognition he deserved.
Speaker 1: We still have a long way to go, and we
Speaker 1: have to wonder what future historians will say about these
Speaker 1: are modern days. I don't know, man, sure seems like
Speaker 1: we're living in a time where, um, things like this
Speaker 1: are much more mainstream and much more accepted. And like
Speaker 1: my kid has grown up being completely comfortable with the
Speaker 1: idea of trans people that she has several in her class,
Speaker 1: and she is just like just it's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: basically the new normal. And I think that's an amazing
Speaker 1: place for us to be, given how far we've come. Agreed, agreed,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in today. We hope
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed this exploration of Albert's life, and we
Speaker 1: would like to hear from you. What are some other
Speaker 1: amazing and inspirational stories of individuals in times of conflict
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be restricted to the Civil War here
Speaker 1: in the United States. Let us know we are all
Speaker 1: ears or eyes rather, because we'll probably be reading what
Speaker 1: you sent to us. You can email us directly. We
Speaker 1: are Ridiculous at I heart radio dot com. You can
Speaker 1: also find our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, where you can
Speaker 1: meet our favorite part of the show. The three of
Speaker 1: us are always talking about you off air, your fellow listeners. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can also check me and Ben out individually on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I've got an account under how Now Noel Brown where
Speaker 1: you can just catch me doing you know, the things
Speaker 1: I do day to day, which apparently includes getting kicked
Speaker 1: in the shens by little kids and until I get
Speaker 1: black bagged and disappeared for my my various misadventures. You
Speaker 1: can find me at Ben Bolan on Instagram. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much to our super producer casey La Bush Pegroom. Thanks
Speaker 1: to our research associates Ryan Bearish and Gabe Bluesia. Yeah
Speaker 1: big thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme Chris
Speaker 1: for us stots here in spirit Jonathan Strickland looming large
Speaker 1: in the world of quiz related super villainy. And thanks
Speaker 1: to you, Ben for being a friend and a confidant
Speaker 1: down that road and back again and all that. Thanks
Speaker 1: to see you next time Fox. For more podcasts for
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.