Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Math and Welcome
Speaker 1: to Stuff I Never told your production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Stop Works. For this this Saturday, we thought
Speaker 1: we would rerun this classic episode that Caroline did around
Speaker 1: queer fashion as activism, and she sat down with a
Speaker 1: bunch of really rad people and discussed what that what
Speaker 1: that looks like? Yes? Um, And so we hope you
Speaker 1: enjoy Welcome to Stuff MOB Never Told You from how
Speaker 1: stupp works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen, and today we're continuing our've
Speaker 1: dived this week into discussing queer fashion, but this time
Speaker 1: we're doing it with a couple of special guests who
Speaker 1: we first started speaking with well via email. During south
Speaker 1: By Southwest, we try to get in touch with some
Speaker 1: awesome folks in the queer fashion community, but you know,
Speaker 1: south By Southwest it's so busy, and we missed them,
Speaker 1: We missed their panel, and so we were really lucky
Speaker 1: and managed to nab them for a fantastic interview that
Speaker 1: we hope you guys will enjoy. And so today you
Speaker 1: will be hearing from Leon Wu, the founder and CEO
Speaker 1: of Sharp Suiting, Sunny or Um, the founding editor of
Speaker 1: style website Queer, and Asia Igire, the beauty editor of
Speaker 1: Auto Straddle, and you mentioned south By Southwest Caroline and
Speaker 1: that we unfortunately were not able to go to their panel,
Speaker 1: which we did want to attend because it was about
Speaker 1: queer style, visual active m and Fashions Frontier. So, uh,
Speaker 1: this group and also Um the designer who started dapper q,
Speaker 1: which is the leading style website for masculine presenting women
Speaker 1: and trans identified people, were talking all about this concept
Speaker 1: of queer style as an art form, and also the
Speaker 1: new fashion frontier and and another branch of this too
Speaker 1: is how mainstream fashion has kind of been co opting
Speaker 1: a lot of queer fashion. So um, I think it's
Speaker 1: such a great opportunity to get this diverse range of
Speaker 1: perspectives and one that we started hearing from actually from
Speaker 1: our listeners in response to our maternity Clothes Fashion History
Speaker 1: episode a while back. Yeah, that's right. We heard from
Speaker 1: some great fashion leaning listeners after that episode who had
Speaker 1: created maternity lines specifically for uh, butch lesbians or masculine
Speaker 1: identifying people, or really anyone who felt that they didn't
Speaker 1: quite fit into that frills and polka dots maternity market
Speaker 1: out there, and they stressed how important it was to
Speaker 1: represent those people whoever, those people are who who are
Speaker 1: often left behind in conversations about fashion or just in
Speaker 1: looking at fashion in general. And so that's why we
Speaker 1: were really excited to speak with this group today because,
Speaker 1: like Kristen said, they do have a diverse array of
Speaker 1: backgrounds from being active in design to being active in
Speaker 1: the media talking about fashion. So in this conversation, which
Speaker 1: is really a continuation of our last podcast, which was
Speaker 1: about how Prince revolutionize the concept of androgynous fashion, so
Speaker 1: you should absolutely go back and listen to that for
Speaker 1: I mean a Prince, but also a little bit of
Speaker 1: a primer on queer fashion. UM. But we're going to
Speaker 1: be talking with first of all, Leon Wu. Like you said,
Speaker 1: he's a founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting, which is
Speaker 1: an a gender luxury clothing brand that creates custom and
Speaker 1: ready to wear clothing, accessories and lifestyle products. And Sharp
Speaker 1: Suiting is especially busy right now because swimsuit season is
Speaker 1: upon us and it's actually the first clothing company to
Speaker 1: focus on butch swimwear. UM and as part of creating
Speaker 1: this ready to wear line and also custom clothing. They
Speaker 1: created a high tech body measurement system to better fit
Speaker 1: clothes on masculine identifying people not just butch, lesbians or transman,
Speaker 1: but also sis men as well. So I mean talk
Speaker 1: about taking all sorts of body types and presentations into account. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Sunny Lauram is a queer style expert who founded
Speaker 1: that style website Quere that I mentioned in tw then
Speaker 1: and they're the first trans blogger to be sponsored by
Speaker 1: top Man. And Sunny described their goal in founding queer
Speaker 1: as fighting oppression through fashion because they said fashion can
Speaker 1: absolutely be a form of activism and this is something
Speaker 1: that we'll talk with all three guests about in more
Speaker 1: detail in the episode. Well, and that also echoes our
Speaker 1: episode from a while back on so called faction and
Speaker 1: the plus size blogging movement that really started a number
Speaker 1: of years ago and it's coming to its own um
Speaker 1: quite recently. Um. And then finally we have Asia Agrey,
Speaker 1: who's the beauty editor at auto Straddle, which is a
Speaker 1: site that we have referenced on so many stuff I've
Speaker 1: never told you episodes, And in addition to auto Straddle,
Speaker 1: Asia also leads the style blog Fit for fem and
Speaker 1: as an advocate for queer women of color. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: this is such a fantastic conversation, if do say so myself,
Speaker 1: thanks to our really fascinating and talented guests. So should
Speaker 1: we let the people hear it? Absolutely, let's roll to
Speaker 1: get started. I'd love to have you guys just introduced
Speaker 1: yourselves and tell our listeners what you do. So, Sonny,
Speaker 1: we'll start with you. Hi. I'm Sonny or might run
Speaker 1: the fashion website quare q w E a R. And
Speaker 1: it's a style website for people who transcend social norms
Speaker 1: through fashion, performance and gender expression. And I'm based in Boston.
Speaker 1: I am Asia Giray. I am the current beauty editor
Speaker 1: at Auto Straddle, which is the largest independent news media
Speaker 1: website for queer women as well as the gosh. I
Speaker 1: guess to call me the founding editor of Fit for
Speaker 1: a FM, which I've been working on since two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight as a as a place and source of
Speaker 1: inspiration for fens to gather and get inspiration and just
Speaker 1: kind of find their own people when it comes to
Speaker 1: style and navigating the world as a fem My name
Speaker 1: is Leon Woo and I am the founder and CEO
Speaker 1: Sharp And that's sharp with an E at the end
Speaker 1: uh suiting, and we make classic and modern clothing for
Speaker 1: all genders. Okay, so if you could also now fill
Speaker 1: me in on your backgrounds how I'm really curious about
Speaker 1: how you guys each ended up in the fashion and
Speaker 1: fashion adjacent realms. Sunny, do you want to start? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I kind of fell into it. Um. I was
Speaker 1: doing music in college, and then when I graduated, I
Speaker 1: started exploring my identity and style more and I kind
Speaker 1: of just fell into it. I discovered fashion blogging, and
Speaker 1: I decided to try to create a space that was
Speaker 1: uniquely queer where we could all see each other and
Speaker 1: where I could share my outfits and I was discovering
Speaker 1: I loved and then it just it just grew from there.
Speaker 1: I just kept kept blogging, and people wrote in and
Speaker 1: asked questions, and people started writing for us, and it
Speaker 1: grew into what it is today. Did you find that
Speaker 1: people really felt that they needed what you were putting
Speaker 1: out there? Yeah? People were immediately drawn to it because
Speaker 1: there was so little, um advice for for queer people. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, for for me representing people who are female
Speaker 1: assigned birth, but trying to find man's clothes that fit
Speaker 1: that was really like, um, that was a need. I mean,
Speaker 1: we didn't have companies like Sharp yet, so people just
Speaker 1: wanted any advice they could get. What about you, Asia,
Speaker 1: How did you end up in the fashion realm? Kind
Speaker 1: of a similar story? Um? In two thousand eight, what
Speaker 1: I started style blogs or both new and really sort
Speaker 1: of blowing up an biguitus everywhere. And I didn't see
Speaker 1: myself in any of them. I didn't. I didn't see
Speaker 1: a lot of women of color to start, and I
Speaker 1: didn't really see any that were queer women, especially queer
Speaker 1: women of color. And I've been the kind of person
Speaker 1: that people always have been like, I love what you're wearing,
Speaker 1: I love your makeup, I love this and that, and
Speaker 1: who came to me for advice and wanted me to
Speaker 1: go shopping with them? Um? And so I thought, like,
Speaker 1: I love this and I should just put it out
Speaker 1: there into the world, um and see what happens. I
Speaker 1: didn't have any real kind of like lofty expectations. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to like stake out my place in the
Speaker 1: world of style blogs because it seemed like something really
Speaker 1: fun and cool and and I thought it would be great,
Speaker 1: um if I did it. Then maybe other women would
Speaker 1: do it, and that definitely happened, especially in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: A way back in the day you had UM Lesbians
Speaker 1: and s f UM, which had a couple of other
Speaker 1: offshoots that just became sort of a very photo heavy
Speaker 1: representation of queer women UM and queer and trance people
Speaker 1: actually and what that style looked like at the time.
Speaker 1: And then from there there were a few other ones
Speaker 1: that were more plus sized fems and more focused on
Speaker 1: firms of color. UM. So it was really great to
Speaker 1: see myself become not the only one out there UM.
Speaker 1: And that just over time, with the fem conferences that
Speaker 1: used to go on, and UM auto straddle coming into
Speaker 1: play and working on things with them and writing for
Speaker 1: them a little bit, just all kinds of snowballed into
Speaker 1: this awesome thing where another beauty editor, why do you
Speaker 1: think a blog like fit for fem or auto straddle?
Speaker 1: Why is it important to show feminine fashion that's different
Speaker 1: from like more traditional quote unquote beauty magazines like Glamour?
Speaker 1: How did how did those differ from the more mainstream
Speaker 1: feminine fashion? Right, and not to insinuate that straight feminine
Speaker 1: women are just sort of blindly doing what they're told
Speaker 1: or anything. But I think especially for fems, and this
Speaker 1: was really highlighted in the post that Sunny did featuring
Speaker 1: fourteen fans of color that was just incredible. Um. Being fem,
Speaker 1: as a queer woman or a trans woman is so
Speaker 1: radical in its reclamation of femininity and in sort of
Speaker 1: hijacking it away from a very heterosexual world, in a
Speaker 1: very sort of binary world that has very very strong
Speaker 1: and pervasive ideas about what women are supposed to look
Speaker 1: and act like. Um. And it's interesting being a mother
Speaker 1: of a straight teenager as well, watching how that influence
Speaker 1: in the media and the media representation of women in
Speaker 1: general is so negative and so laden with with just
Speaker 1: these horrible ideas that that tell women what they're supposed
Speaker 1: to look and act like. And I feel like when
Speaker 1: as a queer woman or a trans woman, you embrace
Speaker 1: all of that immenity um, both inside and outside Esthetically,
Speaker 1: it's it says a lot. It's it's a very political statement,
Speaker 1: and it is really difficult to navigate the world in
Speaker 1: that way because at the first glance, the first take
Speaker 1: is sort of like, this is for male consumption, this
Speaker 1: is for the male gaze, um, and constantly fighting against
Speaker 1: that is you have to be really strong to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely want to put a pen in the political
Speaker 1: statement comment for sure. Um. But Leon, I want you
Speaker 1: to tell our listeners how you got involved in the
Speaker 1: fashion world. Yes, so ever since I was little, I've
Speaker 1: always have a strong desire or love for menous where
Speaker 1: um like, I wanted to wear my dad's clothes growing up. Um,
Speaker 1: I would actually literally sneak into his closet and try
Speaker 1: on his clothes, put on his ties, you know, always
Speaker 1: watch him tie and tie in the mirror. I was
Speaker 1: just fascinated by it. And you know, I'd read kind
Speaker 1: of g Q like on my owner in secret as
Speaker 1: I was growing up. And um, you know, when I
Speaker 1: was twenty one, just out of college, I joined a
Speaker 1: draging troop called the Lost Boys in Los Angeles, and
Speaker 1: through there, you know, I kind of learned the art
Speaker 1: of of styling or fashioning masculinity on stage. I quickly
Speaker 1: became the one who was the organizer of all costumes
Speaker 1: for my troop. Um. That later extended throughout the years
Speaker 1: and I joined another troop called the Beauty Kings of
Speaker 1: Los Angeles as well, and became a co producer of
Speaker 1: a show that's a queer gender bending show called Bent.
Speaker 1: So you know that all of that has kind of
Speaker 1: progressed up through about a year ago when Sharp got
Speaker 1: crazy busy, um in a good way. Uh. And you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of Sharp and how that started, you know, UM,
Speaker 1: I did have a fashion design concept right before I
Speaker 1: went to business school called Fade Designs, and we focused
Speaker 1: on kind of butched swimwear as an alternative means of
Speaker 1: of you know, wearing uh swimsuits that did not fit
Speaker 1: into the very binary um swimwear uh industry. So uh,
Speaker 1: that was about to go into production, and then instead
Speaker 1: I went to business school and that was super busy
Speaker 1: and all I could do is focus on networking and
Speaker 1: meeting my classmates and recruiting there um and studying. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then after business school, you know, I got kind
Speaker 1: of comfortable my rather corporate job right after. But then
Speaker 1: you know, more and more of my friends are getting
Speaker 1: married or attending weddings where they wanted to wear suits.
Speaker 1: And I had made some connections in school with Taylor's
Speaker 1: in various cities internationally. Um, during my travels. It was
Speaker 1: just something I was checked out when I was on
Speaker 1: a business school trek or trip with my classmates, I
Speaker 1: would talk to different Taylor's UM. I talked to Taylor's
Speaker 1: in Savile Row, in London, UH, in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong,
Speaker 1: New York UH, and you know something, I noticed that
Speaker 1: there was always a specific process that they all did
Speaker 1: as a rather archaic um UH segment of fashion, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of revolutionize that. I also knew
Speaker 1: a special way and how to measure people who identified
Speaker 1: similar as me, like people who identify as either masculine
Speaker 1: of center, masculine leaning, or trans men. And I knew
Speaker 1: how to fit clothes on people who identified exactly this way.
Speaker 1: So UM I started Sharp actually as a side operation,
Speaker 1: and UM started making suits for friends and myself. Again,
Speaker 1: wedding was a big reason for doing that, and within
Speaker 1: the first year of UH existing as a business, we
Speaker 1: sold a hundred suits. And that's when I kind of
Speaker 1: took the leap of faith to leave my very financially
Speaker 1: secure corporate job and jump full time into Sharp. We
Speaker 1: had a Kickstarter that we planned for within the first
Speaker 1: two months, and we raised six nine K, exceeding our
Speaker 1: goal of six c K, and after that we raised
Speaker 1: some more funds from friends and family, and you know
Speaker 1: the rest is kind of it just kind of took
Speaker 1: off and and we're heading in a direction where uh,
Speaker 1: we are being all inclusive. Uh not just two people
Speaker 1: in my immediate community, but anybody who wants to wear
Speaker 1: sharp cloth clothing. So you'll see a lot of campaigns
Speaker 1: this year where we are branching out a little bit
Speaker 1: more um mainstream and trying to get them to be
Speaker 1: aware of, uh you know, what the brand is and
Speaker 1: what it was inspired by. Okay, well so and really
Speaker 1: anybody can pick up this question who wants to go first?
Speaker 1: But I'm really interested in how uh you guys feel
Speaker 1: the queer fashion scene has changed, evolved and grown from
Speaker 1: when you first developed an interest in close and fashion, um,
Speaker 1: all the way up to when you started working professionally
Speaker 1: and and now today. I mean I've seen a huge
Speaker 1: evolution just from when I started queer and it's now
Speaker 1: been almost five years. Even looking for people to feature,
Speaker 1: it was hard to find people who really had their
Speaker 1: own sense of style, um, because when when there's so
Speaker 1: little representation of queer style, you, um, it's hard to
Speaker 1: figure out how to address I mean, like you're there's
Speaker 1: like Shane from The L Word, and then you know
Speaker 1: Ellen Degenerous, and it's just like these a few celebrities
Speaker 1: here and there. And then I mean, of course we
Speaker 1: had had Asia already for for fem style, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just people didn't really know how to dress and
Speaker 1: we're asking lots of questions, simple questions like how do
Speaker 1: I match my belt to my shoes or something. And
Speaker 1: as time went on, I started to see a growth
Speaker 1: in everyone. Um they started experimenting with patterns, with different styles,
Speaker 1: and it just seemed like the queer community through social
Speaker 1: media was starting to develop a sense of style. And
Speaker 1: it's just been really amazing to watch everyone grow. Every year,
Speaker 1: someone comes out with something different and it's just really amazing.
Speaker 1: I um, Leon, when you did all the drag troops,
Speaker 1: was that like the early two thousands, mid mid two thousand's. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like I came out way too late in life.
Speaker 1: It's one of my big regrets. I didn't know, but
Speaker 1: I feel like I came out in the very early
Speaker 1: two thousand's and just sort of belossomed a time through
Speaker 1: the mid to to late two thousand's when something just
Speaker 1: really special was happening in the queer queer world in
Speaker 1: terms of just like creativity and performance and music and
Speaker 1: and that's so much of that manifested in style. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel so lucky to have been there for all
Speaker 1: of that, and I miss There's a lot I miss
Speaker 1: about those days. There's a lot that I'm happy to
Speaker 1: leave in the past. But I just I don't know
Speaker 1: what's happened, And I think that there's a lot of
Speaker 1: really incredible stuff happening now. But it's almost like, because
Speaker 1: there was so much that we still were working towards
Speaker 1: and fighting for as a queer community at large, those
Speaker 1: spaces and that community was sacred in a different way,
Speaker 1: and and because it was almost denser, it was more
Speaker 1: powerful in those sort of create creative realms. Not that
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist now. I just feel like it's become
Speaker 1: more dilute across board, which is great because it means
Speaker 1: that it's reaching more people and people have more options
Speaker 1: and more roads to go down. But yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: been a very interesting shift, I think the last ten
Speaker 1: ten or so years. Yeah, Um, I have to agree
Speaker 1: with both Sonny and Asia. I have seen a lot
Speaker 1: of developments since the two thousand's. Um. But I feel
Speaker 1: like the biggest movement is definitely happening right now. I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that I started I tried to start a
Speaker 1: design concept right before I headed off to business school,
Speaker 1: which is around two thousand and five two thousand six,
Speaker 1: Me and another friend who was very passionate about queer
Speaker 1: fashion of Vanessa Craig actually co produced what could have
Speaker 1: been one of the first butch fashion shows, although I'm
Speaker 1: sure other things were happening in various cities. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's mostly our friends in the community that
Speaker 1: came out to support that, and it was a really
Speaker 1: great event that I felt very fulfilled with. But it
Speaker 1: was hard to bring that outside of the scope of
Speaker 1: the community. And I think right now, because things are
Speaker 1: really versioning, is it is a time to to do that.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I'm trying to do with Sharp
Speaker 1: is basically bring social impact through commerce and expand a
Speaker 1: little bit further so people are more aware of these
Speaker 1: other identities. UM. And there's so many, as you can see,
Speaker 1: with all the various queer fashion brands that are out there, UM,
Speaker 1: I can probably count at least you know, thirty, probably
Speaker 1: fifty of them out there in the US and Canada
Speaker 1: and UM, all of these different brands in a sense
Speaker 1: represent a different type of identity in in the queer
Speaker 1: fashion space, and you know, uh, people are more interested there.
Speaker 1: I think people are wanting to see more than the
Speaker 1: standard UM offering that's currently in the fact fashion industry
Speaker 1: and UM. You know, I'm just kind of writing this
Speaker 1: wave and seeing where it goes and finally having a
Speaker 1: chance to to fulfill my passion wi Lee on how
Speaker 1: big is the queer fashion designing community and what is
Speaker 1: funding like? I mean, is it the same for more
Speaker 1: quote unquote mainstream fashion. Yeah. So I will start out
Speaker 1: by saying that UM, finding capital UM for fashion brands
Speaker 1: is particularly hard in general if you're just looking across
Speaker 1: the various UH industries for startups. UM. That said, being
Speaker 1: a queer fashion brand adds another layer of challenges to it.
Speaker 1: I think that people are more technology focused, So the
Speaker 1: fact that Sharp is moving more UM and opening up
Speaker 1: our line of business to e commerce certainly helps. But
Speaker 1: if you're just a brick and mortar fashion brand, it's
Speaker 1: very very difficult. I mentioned before that we raised we
Speaker 1: surpassed our goal for Kickstarter, and that's because we have
Speaker 1: enormous support from the community, and that was really exciting
Speaker 1: for me to see. Um, we had some support and
Speaker 1: we raised over a hundred k from friends of family,
Speaker 1: and now we're expanding to you know and in a
Speaker 1: sense cold pitching to the average person. And that is
Speaker 1: definitely experienced because, um, I have to sit there and
Speaker 1: explain exactly how we were inspired and what the background
Speaker 1: of our story is, and then I have to kind
Speaker 1: of bridge the gap and say why are how are
Speaker 1: we going to become successful as you know any x
Speaker 1: y Z fashion brand out there? Um, So that's definitely
Speaker 1: the challenges that I'm facing right now. But I think, um,
Speaker 1: you know, with our expansion, which you're gonna see on
Speaker 1: e commerce, uh, that I think we have a real
Speaker 1: shot at it. So I'm excited to see where that goes.
Speaker 1: Is the e commerce queer fashion industry and those sales?
Speaker 1: Are they driven by social media? Do you think kids
Speaker 1: who are I mean, I say kids, but it's really
Speaker 1: multiple generations, um, is it? You know? Kids who are
Speaker 1: finally maybe coming out and they are looking to blogs
Speaker 1: and websites like yours and saying, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: don't have it in my x y z small town,
Speaker 1: but I can at least get it online. Are you
Speaker 1: hearing from people like that? Yeah? So I think you
Speaker 1: said keyword, which is kids. We definitely have a lot
Speaker 1: of kids following all of us, UM, myself, Sonny and Asia.
Speaker 1: And that's great because then we get to to let
Speaker 1: them know as they're growing and maturing as adults that hey,
Speaker 1: there's a space for you in the future. UM. Again
Speaker 1: though their kids, so they can't really afford you know,
Speaker 1: UM items that are several hundred dollars, which you know,
Speaker 1: some of our suits do cost that much money. UM.
Speaker 1: But the hope is to stick around until that group
Speaker 1: can actually partake and and be purchasers of this these items. UM.
Speaker 1: But a lot of uh I think more effective UM
Speaker 1: marketing goes into digital advertising right now, UM, and you
Speaker 1: will see the older crowds and Facebook. So we have
Speaker 1: a campaign that's gonna be coming on Facebook soon. UM.
Speaker 1: And just a lot of connections or word of mouth,
Speaker 1: especially for somebody that's being referred to as Taylor so
Speaker 1: to speak. They want to know that that somebody else
Speaker 1: that they know, uh really well has a nice personal
Speaker 1: connection with their tailor. And it's referral based that way. So,
Speaker 1: Sonny and Asia, have you guys heard from members of
Speaker 1: the younger generation about fashion and and sexual identity and
Speaker 1: sexual orientation. Yes, Um, I hear from kids all the time. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of the stories are heartbreaking, but some are
Speaker 1: more uplifting. Um. A lot of kids who are struggling
Speaker 1: with their identity and feel like they need to fit
Speaker 1: into a box. Um they say like, I think, I
Speaker 1: think I'm attracted to girls, but I don't know, like
Speaker 1: you know, they get all confused and it's really cute. Um. Um.
Speaker 1: And lots of kids right in with issues with their
Speaker 1: school or their parents in terms of like not letting
Speaker 1: them dress the way they want to. So, um, I've
Speaker 1: given a lot of I've tried to give a lot
Speaker 1: of advice to those people and um. But yeah, just
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of kids are also able
Speaker 1: to express themselves more now and they have all these
Speaker 1: new terms for how they identify and that's really cool
Speaker 1: to see. Yeah, it's it's a little bit bizarre. Are
Speaker 1: to have started fit for a FIM when I was
Speaker 1: in my twenties and not in my thirties, um and
Speaker 1: seeing that shift because I don't know necessarily that my
Speaker 1: audience's age has reflected my own over I mean, only
Speaker 1: on the Internet can you be called like too traditional
Speaker 1: and old school and high concept in the same sentence.
Speaker 1: Um So, what I get mostly at Fit for a FM,
Speaker 1: because it's um so specific, is women who come to
Speaker 1: me and they say, when I came out, when I
Speaker 1: realized I was when I realized that I was queer.
Speaker 1: I thought that that automatically meant I had to cut
Speaker 1: my hair, I had to put on men's clothes, I
Speaker 1: had to be more androidness or butchet up. And it
Speaker 1: never really felt like me. I just felt like this
Speaker 1: was the only way to be seen um as as
Speaker 1: gay or lesbian are queer, and ultimately they stumble upon
Speaker 1: Fit for a FM and they think to themselves, whoa
Speaker 1: like I can do this? This this person is clearly
Speaker 1: doing this, and then you know, finding things that I
Speaker 1: connect to or or other people. It's a thing. It's
Speaker 1: totally a thing, and suddenly it becomes an option for
Speaker 1: women who, do you know, want to reclaim their femininity
Speaker 1: and be out there and the worlds of them Leon,
Speaker 1: did you have anything else to add to that, um No,
Speaker 1: non particular. I think that sums it up well. You guys, Asia,
Speaker 1: you directly touched on this earlier, but you guys have
Speaker 1: also touched on the idea of fashion as a part
Speaker 1: of activism and of making your identity clearer to yourself
Speaker 1: clear to other people. So do you feel that fashion
Speaker 1: is a branch of activism and and how how is
Speaker 1: it a branch of activism? Well, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: we're seeing with North Carolina that the battle is not over. Um.
Speaker 1: There are still really really hard times being fought across
Speaker 1: this country for a lot of folks who just fighting
Speaker 1: for the right to exist. And human beings are very visual,
Speaker 1: and so when being who you are visually and and
Speaker 1: being identified puts you at risk or means that your
Speaker 1: rights can be trampled on or you can be discriminated against,
Speaker 1: and there's no repercussion for that. That that's definitely activism
Speaker 1: to be who you are and to be out and
Speaker 1: sort of not compromise on that front. And that's really
Speaker 1: powerful and scary for a lot of people, um. And
Speaker 1: the more you can just support them and help give
Speaker 1: them courage and help them to be authentic and true
Speaker 1: to themselves, that's a really privileged place to be in.
Speaker 1: For me personally, um. Just like Asia was saying, it's
Speaker 1: really hard to just move about the world. UM. I
Speaker 1: guess this is a podcast, so you can't see what
Speaker 1: I look like. But I identify as non binary and trans,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes I pass as mails sometimes I don't,
Speaker 1: especially probably over the podcast, I sound more like I
Speaker 1: have a high voice. But so I just have to
Speaker 1: kind of every time I get dressed, deal with what
Speaker 1: people's reactions are going to be, and still try to
Speaker 1: be true to myself. Like right now, I have a
Speaker 1: butt in my hair, which makes people read me as
Speaker 1: more female, but sometimes if I put on a bow tie,
Speaker 1: I can pass. So you never really know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen, and it's always kind of an adventure going
Speaker 1: into the bathroom. So yeah, I think for in terms
Speaker 1: of just the community at large, even people who aren't
Speaker 1: non binary, UM, I think it's really important to recognize
Speaker 1: that we that the fashion industry puts UM standards on
Speaker 1: all of us, and even if you identify UM along
Speaker 1: the binary UM. Just like Asia was saying, if you
Speaker 1: are dressing it like if you're a woman dressing in
Speaker 1: a body positive way, like your plus size, and you're
Speaker 1: showing off your Middrift Like that is activism in itself
Speaker 1: because you're saying that you are proud of who you
Speaker 1: are instead of trying to hide it. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: that visual activism is a big part of of what
Speaker 1: Sharp does. And there's still a law of work to
Speaker 1: be done. I mentioned during the South By Southwest panel
Speaker 1: that we had suited on the red carpet Phyllis Naggi,
Speaker 1: who was the screenwriter of Carol as she was up
Speaker 1: for a nomination. She was very visible and you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: she looked great on the red carpet. Uh. She took
Speaker 1: a chance by doing that, and she was very brave.
Speaker 1: She's definitely a pioneer in in queer fashion because of that. UM.
Speaker 1: We also flew to Monroe, Louisiana to deliver a tuxedo
Speaker 1: for a high school student who was initially banned from
Speaker 1: UM uh her ability to wear a tuxedo to her
Speaker 1: own prom. When that band was lifted, then we were
Speaker 1: there to provide her a suit and she got to
Speaker 1: wear to a prom and have fun with her friends.
Speaker 1: We're still, you know, always looking to see, you know,
Speaker 1: how we can provide back to the community and um,
Speaker 1: you know, advance kind of uh this these new styles
Speaker 1: and identities into the fashion world. Um so yeah, I
Speaker 1: think there's still a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 1: Even within the queer community, there's a bunch of sub labels. Um,
Speaker 1: even being a transman or transgender individual, there's still sub
Speaker 1: labels like transfeminine and trans masculine And people have asked me,
Speaker 1: you know, like which one do you identify with? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, isn't interesting How we're trying to get away
Speaker 1: from labels, but we give up more and more labels.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the consensus is once we
Speaker 1: have so many labels that everyone has their own label,
Speaker 1: then maybe we won't need them anymore and a person
Speaker 1: will just be a person because you can, ideally, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can essentially have um a different label to per
Speaker 1: day to right you think about it, you know, I
Speaker 1: think weren't for us to be able to label ourselves
Speaker 1: or not label ourselves as we wish? Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you think how long do you think it's going
Speaker 1: to take or do you think it's going to happen?
Speaker 1: But how long do you think it's going to take
Speaker 1: for more mainstream media outlets to catch up with that idea?
Speaker 1: Of not everybody is on this binary guys. Not everybody
Speaker 1: uses the same one or two labels. Do you see
Speaker 1: that happening right now or do you ever see it
Speaker 1: happening at all? I feel like it's starting to trickle
Speaker 1: in a little bit. But and I think especially with
Speaker 1: like younger characters in the media who are trying to
Speaker 1: figure themselves out. And I definitely know with younger people
Speaker 1: being the mom of a teenager, like, they just don't care.
Speaker 1: That's that's my take. They just seriously don't care, and
Speaker 1: they're not really interested in categorizing, which is fascinating because
Speaker 1: I feel like human beings, like your brain, just before
Speaker 1: you can even consciously think about it, wants to categorize.
Speaker 1: It wants to organize things and to meet little boxes.
Speaker 1: Um for whatever reason, I'm sure people who studied that
Speaker 1: sort of thing of the name for it. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see how that is gonna kind
Speaker 1: of become more and more prevalent in media representation. We're
Speaker 1: already seeing some mainstream designers Alexander Wayne Gucci showing androgynous
Speaker 1: designs on the runway. Um and um, you know, the
Speaker 1: the kind of the slim fit style that we're seeing
Speaker 1: a lot in the mainstream is is very androgynous. Um uh.
Speaker 1: You know, it kind of takes on more of a
Speaker 1: diamond shape, and that is especially for hiding curves or
Speaker 1: or body parts that are more defining as masculine versus feminine. Um.
Speaker 1: So we are seeing that, and it is, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: different from from the nineties campaign that you saw a
Speaker 1: lot with Calvin Klein and that sort of androgyny. This
Speaker 1: is more of, uh, this is something that's rather than oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to pick that label because they're going through
Speaker 1: an androgyny trend, this is more of a we're gonna
Speaker 1: include this going forward kind of a fashion movement. So
Speaker 1: I do feel that, you know, main street is catching
Speaker 1: onto to quote fashion as well. What oh, Sonny, did
Speaker 1: you have something ab oh sure? Um yeah. Well, as
Speaker 1: I mentioned in the panel to um, I do, I
Speaker 1: I appreciate that the industry is doing a lot of
Speaker 1: unisex uh androgynous lines, but at the same time, it's
Speaker 1: very limited to white, essentially female assigned birth skinny people.
Speaker 1: So I'm really hoping that we can expand that to
Speaker 1: show that an androgyny can be for anyone of all
Speaker 1: body types and um, I'm just personally, I'm really hoping
Speaker 1: someday that that stores won't feel such a need to
Speaker 1: separate things into women's and men's sections because we're all
Speaker 1: shaped so differently that it's really I mean, uh, like, yes,
Speaker 1: men maybe taller in general or or wider, but it's
Speaker 1: just there's so there's so much diversity in body type
Speaker 1: among all of us that I really don't think we
Speaker 1: need to separate it nearly as much as people think.
Speaker 1: And I feel the most free if I can just
Speaker 1: shop um when all the clothes are just together, because
Speaker 1: then I'm like like those like those teenagers, I'm just
Speaker 1: not caring about labels and I'm just having fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is interesting to watch. Kristen and I did an
Speaker 1: episode on essentially feminism in fashion, but from the perspective
Speaker 1: of feminism being used as a trend in the argument
Speaker 1: of well, is this a negative because feminism is being
Speaker 1: used or is it a positive because at least feminism
Speaker 1: is getting a platform and it's part of a larger discussion.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like something similar is happening with more
Speaker 1: androgynous looks or with um fashion that's sort of for everyone.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like androgyny is a trend or do
Speaker 1: you feel like more mainstream fashion is really starting to
Speaker 1: adopt more of a fashionist for everyone ethos And I
Speaker 1: think people are taking these terms like androgynous, tomboy, um
Speaker 1: a gender, and a lot of brands are just kind
Speaker 1: of throwing it around and it's really just code for like,
Speaker 1: here are some clothes that look really good on skinny
Speaker 1: people and don't particularly you know, have a gender to them.
Speaker 1: Often they're more masculine leaning actually, So yeah, I do
Speaker 1: think it's it's a trend that people are kind of using,
Speaker 1: and I wish people were a little more careful with
Speaker 1: their words because, um, there are some people who really
Speaker 1: do identify as a gender or androgynous um and these people,
Speaker 1: most of them aren't represented by this group. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: almost feel like if to be a little bit of
Speaker 1: a music nerd, if you go back into like punk
Speaker 1: and new wave and those times and like the late
Speaker 1: sixties through the mid eighties, I mean you had I
Speaker 1: feel like you had almost true like a gender stuff
Speaker 1: where um like adam Ant would wear you know, roughly
Speaker 1: shirts and kind of very tight, hip huggy sort of
Speaker 1: pants and a lot of a lot of detail, UM,
Speaker 1: and you then you had just sort of the straight
Speaker 1: up and down and again this goes to what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, sunny, look, that's just like a plain white
Speaker 1: shirt and you kind of st Laurent has actually been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of stuff that looks like that. UM.
Speaker 1: But at least that gives more of a balance to
Speaker 1: where you see masculine people wearing sort of more feminine
Speaker 1: or fussy or frilly clothing rather than just everybody kind
Speaker 1: of meeting in this this so called androgynous to find
Speaker 1: middle middle of the road, which isn't really because it
Speaker 1: doesn't incorporate anything on the feminine side of the spectrum, right.
Speaker 1: You know, UM, A gender is not just about a
Speaker 1: bunch of butches and suits. It's UM. It's playing with
Speaker 1: different types of not just tailoring, but also draping UM
Speaker 1: and really kind of not using gender basically as a
Speaker 1: way of styling. It's UM using clothing in a way
Speaker 1: that UM doesn't have anything to do with that. If
Speaker 1: you look at the origins of tailoring, they did initially
Speaker 1: start tailoring, uh for people who were male or or
Speaker 1: for men, and this is UM back in the day
Speaker 1: and during the Renaissance era, everyone was wearing kind of um,
Speaker 1: draping kind of clothing and then Tayloring came into play.
Speaker 1: This is around the rise of Christianity, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it was only for men at that point. I think
Speaker 1: we're at a point in fashion where it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: You can um play with different shapes and um uh
Speaker 1: you know. That's another reason why I chose suits, is
Speaker 1: because I'd like to play with suits that typically are
Speaker 1: very masculine type of symbol and clothing and and just
Speaker 1: be able to suit all types of people women, um uh,
Speaker 1: those who are female identified, draping it off the shoulders,
Speaker 1: wearing them with shorts, you know, I mean, just playing
Speaker 1: around with it, and we're finding that a lot of
Speaker 1: people are actually liking these styles. Um So yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: that wasn't in very a direct answer, but it's I
Speaker 1: could talk about this and I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: into like a ten minute feel you know, but hopefully
Speaker 1: that gives kind of an idea of you know, uh
Speaker 1: a gender and how that pertains to fashion. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's not only gender in terms like androgeny to
Speaker 1: get thrown around for and and feminism that get thrown
Speaker 1: around for sort of trendy fashion reasons, but also issues
Speaker 1: of race and ethnicity. I'm interested in your take on
Speaker 1: where the place is for women of color in or
Speaker 1: you know, feminine identifying people in this discussion about queer
Speaker 1: fashion in because, like you were saying, Sonny for instance,
Speaker 1: so much of that quote unquote androgyn his fashion does
Speaker 1: tend to focus on skinny white people. So what's here?
Speaker 1: What's your take on the space for feminine or female
Speaker 1: identifying people of color. One thing that we talked about
Speaker 1: and kept going back to you and ourselves by Southwest
Speaker 1: panel was give people who aren't represented more seats at
Speaker 1: the table. Everybody agreed on that. Everybody was on the
Speaker 1: same page about if you want to if your mainstream
Speaker 1: fashion brand and you want to have a play at androgyny,
Speaker 1: or you want to incorporate more women of color on
Speaker 1: your runways or just people of color on your runways,
Speaker 1: even bring more of those people to the table. You can't,
Speaker 1: you know, work on those concepts and have it to
Speaker 1: be divorced from from those folks having representation and say
Speaker 1: and what that should look like, what that should feel like,
Speaker 1: how that should be marketed. Um. So I think that's
Speaker 1: just one of the key pieces. UM. I just worked
Speaker 1: on a story UM at Auto Straddle that featured Cora Harrington,
Speaker 1: who runs the lingerie addict UM her addict rather and UM,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great her blog is amazing. It's
Speaker 1: just all it's a it's a lingerie drain. Basically, just
Speaker 1: look at this wonderful, beautiful, incredible lingerie. And so she
Speaker 1: worked with some other people on this idea of like,
Speaker 1: let's let's do our own photo shoot representing these spring
Speaker 1: summer trends um and work with little indie brands um
Speaker 1: to just sort of put out into the world like
Speaker 1: what this should look like, what lingerie marketing campaigns should
Speaker 1: look like if they wanted to be representative of a
Speaker 1: diverse group of people, and they had an older woman,
Speaker 1: they had Cora, who's a black woman, UM, and she's
Speaker 1: queer and she's gorgeous, but and she also rock natural
Speaker 1: hair um. And then there was a non binary queer
Speaker 1: woman as well, UM. And there was one other one
Speaker 1: other galic it's escaping me right now um. And so
Speaker 1: they came together and they did this incredible, really beautiful
Speaker 1: photo shoot. UM. But even then, because Cora is slender
Speaker 1: and has insane bone structure. Um. You know, some people
Speaker 1: are like, how, well, how is this different? How is
Speaker 1: she different from the norm? And it's because she's a
Speaker 1: queer woman, and she's a queer woman of color, and
Speaker 1: she's darker than most black women that are featured in
Speaker 1: lingerie campaigns, and she's a little bit more her physique
Speaker 1: is a little bit more muscular than is usually considered
Speaker 1: acceptable and lingerie campaigns. I mean, I could go on
Speaker 1: and on and on about what makes her unique and special. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to have that conversation, and it's wonderful
Speaker 1: to see people sort of taking it into their own
Speaker 1: hands and putting what they want to see out into
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah. That's one of my goals with Quaire
Speaker 1: is to just provide this platform for everyone to express themselves.
Speaker 1: And I try to keep keep myself out of the
Speaker 1: equation as much as possible. So if it's um, if
Speaker 1: it's a column written by a queer woman of color, UM,
Speaker 1: just making sure that it's really all hers and then
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, pressing publish. UM. So that's that's
Speaker 1: just really important to our values at Queer that we
Speaker 1: give everyone a voice and that it's not dominated by
Speaker 1: UM any one voice, you know, UM as sharp as
Speaker 1: a business. UM, we do have to UM. It's it's
Speaker 1: a very tricky balance, I think you know, UM, as
Speaker 1: we've you know, bottom line is going to determine whether
Speaker 1: we survive or whether I can continue to do this
Speaker 1: or not. UM. So you know in our next campaign, UM,
Speaker 1: you will see UM very slender cysts I guess, so
Speaker 1: to speak, Caucasian guy wearing um our suits. And that
Speaker 1: is because we are wanting to be all inclusive to
Speaker 1: you know, the average guy who's sitting behind the computer,
Speaker 1: who UM really wants to buy something that's more fashion
Speaker 1: forward and UM also you know, maybe hipster and as
Speaker 1: cool with you know that we're inspired by the l
Speaker 1: g B, t Q UH community. UM So in the
Speaker 1: product shots you will see that. But in all my
Speaker 1: editorials on the runway, I'm always including all UM ethnicities,
Speaker 1: all body types, all UH genders UH to you know,
Speaker 1: as kind of an ode to who we are and
Speaker 1: where we came from and who we're going to continue
Speaker 1: to be. UM. But you know, again with marketing and
Speaker 1: product marketing, we have to kind of take care of
Speaker 1: our bottom line, so to speak. So it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a tricky balance, but I hope I hope the community understands,
Speaker 1: because um, it's it's better for a brand like Sharp
Speaker 1: to be around someday then for us, you know, not
Speaker 1: to exist at all, and then there's no work that
Speaker 1: I can really do at that point. Yeah, in terms
Speaker 1: of the community understanding, UM, I'm always I'm in a
Speaker 1: unique position to get to talk to people like Yu
Speaker 1: Leon who um are running your business and have all
Speaker 1: these things you're dealing with, and then the community who's
Speaker 1: having all of this feedback that's often negative, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying to, like, you know, help balance um explaining to
Speaker 1: the community like no, I'm serious that these people have
Speaker 1: to charge this much like they worked all the numbers.
Speaker 1: This is just what they have to charge. You know,
Speaker 1: We're We're sorry it's too much for you, you know
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So um, So yeah, hopefully we
Speaker 1: can bridge and understanding amongst each other. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: a delicate balance. UM. I know. I talked to Nick
Speaker 1: Casey a lot about his business with his footwear she Wear.
Speaker 1: It's like, um, well, if you want something that's made
Speaker 1: uh with this sort of level of authenticity and quality,
Speaker 1: then it's going to cost as much money. UM. Also,
Speaker 1: just bear in mind that we are dealing with the
Speaker 1: supply chain that is also very gendered and binary, and
Speaker 1: so if we want to change things slightly, that costs
Speaker 1: us money and so unfortunately that comes out in our
Speaker 1: retail pricing. And you know, we've got to kind of
Speaker 1: stick together to support each other. Um. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's better, you know, to kind of pay a
Speaker 1: little extra um for brands like this to be around,
Speaker 1: and then when we get to a point where we've
Speaker 1: changed things all the way vertically, then the prices can
Speaker 1: come down right right. I feel like it's just something
Speaker 1: that takes time, and a lot of folks who are
Speaker 1: consumers simply don't understand because they're not they're not in
Speaker 1: your physician, or they're not well verse, or they don't
Speaker 1: know a super ton about the background of what it
Speaker 1: takes to do that. You see that in like making
Speaker 1: vegan clothing or vegan products or ethically sourced things. It
Speaker 1: is expensive. There's a reason that fast fashion is fast fashion,
Speaker 1: and it's so so so cheap, and it's very easy
Speaker 1: to ignore the fact of why that is. Um. But
Speaker 1: it's impossible to ignore as a as a business person
Speaker 1: and as someone who is very intentional about buying ethically
Speaker 1: sourced things or about supporting a queer business. Um, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think those are excellent points in terms of balancing
Speaker 1: the business against the constant sort of social outcry for no.
Speaker 1: But I want, I want my fashion, and I want
Speaker 1: it now. Um. I mean, I think it's an excellent point,
Speaker 1: and I want to sort of start to wrap it up.
Speaker 1: I've kept you good people too long, but I want
Speaker 1: to get from each of you, uh, some advice if
Speaker 1: you haven't. For young listeners out there, um, whether they're
Speaker 1: queer or not, maybe just kids who feel like they're
Speaker 1: different and outside of the mainstream, what is your advice
Speaker 1: for them? As really fabulous fashion people, two kids who
Speaker 1: maybe feel just a little different, Sunny, Let's start with you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just um it's cheesy, but just be yourself, I mean
Speaker 1: you you really Everyone experiments to figure out what feels right.
Speaker 1: So just try things on, you know. I I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of embarrassing fashion moments in my day and
Speaker 1: it was all part of the process of um, finding
Speaker 1: my style, and I'm still discovering it. So just try
Speaker 1: to be free, uh, and just surround yourself by friends
Speaker 1: who support you in whatever stage you're in and who
Speaker 1: don't make you feel like you have to conform to anything.
Speaker 1: I agree. Uh, please don't go to some of my
Speaker 1: older posts, but you could if you wanted to to
Speaker 1: see how my style has evolved over the year. It's
Speaker 1: just the nature of getting dressed as a human being.
Speaker 1: Things cycle in and out and and it's exciting. It's
Speaker 1: exciting to take part of those things. It's exciting to
Speaker 1: go against the grain, and how you feel is more
Speaker 1: important than anything else. UM. I would say one of
Speaker 1: the more interesting things that I discovered moving from the
Speaker 1: Bay Area to Boston four years ago was how reticent
Speaker 1: people are to buy second hand or thrifted or clothing
Speaker 1: that's that's not brand brand new. And I feel like
Speaker 1: for a lot of young people who maybe don't have
Speaker 1: access to a lot of money and can't spend what
Speaker 1: they would ideally like to to achieve the style that
Speaker 1: they want to represent or experiment or play with. UM,
Speaker 1: don't be scared of that if there's nothing weird about it.
Speaker 1: And I can't believe I had to say that to
Speaker 1: so many clients as a personal stylist, but sometimes it's
Speaker 1: one of the only ways to get the look that
Speaker 1: you want from older clothing or are just there's no
Speaker 1: way you can buy retail off the shelf, but you
Speaker 1: can absolutely get that if you go and hunt for it,
Speaker 1: um in the bins or at someplace like Buffalo Exchange
Speaker 1: or crossroads where that stuff is a lot more accessible
Speaker 1: than it is brand new. So just have fun and
Speaker 1: don't be script out by any of that stuff. And yeah, nice,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. UM. Could you go down the
Speaker 1: line again and tell our listeners where they can find
Speaker 1: you online and where they can find out more about
Speaker 1: your work. Sonny, let's start with you. Yeah, so my
Speaker 1: website is queer Fashion dot com. It's spelled q w
Speaker 1: e a R fashion dot com and that's where you
Speaker 1: can see everything we've done. You can find my style
Speaker 1: blog Fit for a f M at Fit for a
Speaker 1: FM dot com, um, just like it sounds, and auto
Speaker 1: Straddle dot com is where you can find a lot
Speaker 1: of my style and beauty coverage. Um, and that is
Speaker 1: also just how it sounds. And if you want to
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram or Twitter, they're my heal is
Speaker 1: dear jones e j O n E s E Y.
Speaker 1: I know Instagram is super popular, so cool and uh
Speaker 1: for sure We've got spring summer collection that's launching in
Speaker 1: the next month or two and you can find that
Speaker 1: at www Dot Sharp s h A r P E
Speaker 1: Suiting s U I T I n g um dot
Speaker 1: com or find us on Twitter, Instagram, uh, Facebook, and
Speaker 1: the Twitter and Instagram is at Sharp Suiting. Great. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much. It was such a pleasure talking
Speaker 1: to you. I could honestly talk to you like for
Speaker 1: three more hours. But thank you for having us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us. And I just
Speaker 1: want to thank Leon, Sunny and Asia so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. I really think that our listeners will identify
Speaker 1: with a lot of what they said, and I was
Speaker 1: so pleased to be able to represent these fashion viewpoints
Speaker 1: on our show. And I'm also looking forward to hearing
Speaker 1: from listeners who are in the style and design fields,
Speaker 1: M because I'm sure that you have even more insights
Speaker 1: to talk about this, and also listeners within the l
Speaker 1: g B t Q community. I mean, do these issues
Speaker 1: resonate with you? Have there been challenges finding the fashion
Speaker 1: that really fits who you are both inside and out? Um?
Speaker 1: So mom stuff at how Stuff Works dot com is
Speaker 1: where you can send all of your emails. Of course,
Speaker 1: you can always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or
Speaker 1: message us on Facebook, and we've got a couple of
Speaker 1: messages to share with you right now. Well, I have
Speaker 1: a letter here from Olivia and Kristen. She has some
Speaker 1: questions in here too for us to address. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so Olivia says, first, I just want to say thank
Speaker 1: you for doing what you do. I love listening to
Speaker 1: your thoughtful conversations on the podcast while I'm doing everything
Speaker 1: from working to cleaning, and it totally brightens my day.
Speaker 1: I was listening to your most recent episode about the
Speaker 1: lesbian wage bump, and the idea that many lesbians never
Speaker 1: count on being attached to a male breadwinner really got
Speaker 1: me thinking, I, a straight white CIS lady, have more
Speaker 1: or less always counted on being in a partnership with
Speaker 1: a male breadwinner. I knew from a very early age
Speaker 1: that I wanted to get married someday, and I figured
Speaker 1: my marriage would work the way my parents does. But
Speaker 1: my mom lends a significant hand since she's back to
Speaker 1: work after taking more time off when my sister and
Speaker 1: I were little. I've never been encouraged to make being
Speaker 1: a primary breadwinner a priority. This is presumably in part
Speaker 1: because I'm female, but also because I come from a
Speaker 1: family of creatives who always put following your passions before
Speaker 1: making money. My decisions about my career have been made accordingly.
Speaker 1: As a working artist, I'm much more concerned with the
Speaker 1: career trajectory that will fuel my passions than with what
Speaker 1: will be a stable source of income for a future family.
Speaker 1: This feels like a betrayal of both feminism and my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I dislike the fact that I mentally bank on the
Speaker 1: safety net when thinking about my future, and it feels
Speaker 1: terribly unfair that I'm primarily concerned with chasing my passions
Speaker 1: while my boyfriend has to balance that with having a
Speaker 1: career stable enough to support any family we might eventually have,
Speaker 1: though he assures me it's totally fine. All this to say,
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could do an episode on
Speaker 1: reconciling one's radical feminism with being in typically quote unquote
Speaker 1: female positions. Does this kind of thing grind other women's gears?
Speaker 1: How many of us are in those positions by choice?
Speaker 1: How do you navigate being a feminist while pursuing your dreams?
Speaker 1: On another person's dime. I mean, I think that that
Speaker 1: is all about partnership, gender aside, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: there are times and long term relationships when one person
Speaker 1: kind of has to carry more of the weight and
Speaker 1: it evens out most likely it's point. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that that it necessarily means that you're being a
Speaker 1: bad feminist. Yeah, And and the same sentiment goes for
Speaker 1: what job you choose. I mean, if you wanted to
Speaker 1: be a prima ballerina, I'm thinking of like something super
Speaker 1: you know, traditionally feminine. That doesn't matter if that is
Speaker 1: your passion. And it would be one thing if you
Speaker 1: were trying to take advantage and and get a leg
Speaker 1: up over your partner. But it sounds like you guys
Speaker 1: are in really open, clear honest communication with one another
Speaker 1: that you really want to pursue your passion and your boyfriend,
Speaker 1: who sounds like will become your husband one day or
Speaker 1: you know, you guys are just in it for the
Speaker 1: long haul. Um, it sounds like he's on board with
Speaker 1: this too, And so no, like Christen said, I don't
Speaker 1: think that makes you a bad feminist. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that if you're in a traditionally uh female coded
Speaker 1: or male coded line of work, or a female dominated,
Speaker 1: male dominated line of work. I don't think either one
Speaker 1: speaks to what kind of feminist you are. I don't
Speaker 1: think that your passion or your skills speaks to feminism.
Speaker 1: I think you can be a feminist and be in
Speaker 1: a super traditional feminine role, female role, or you could
Speaker 1: be a construction worker. You know what I mean, right?
Speaker 1: I mean because I think we also conflate feminist and
Speaker 1: feminine and consider that you know things that are feminine
Speaker 1: or somehow the antithesis of feminism, and that's not the
Speaker 1: point at all. So you know your own motivations and
Speaker 1: it sounds like they're pure, and let your partner support you,
Speaker 1: because that's what partnership is all about. So thanks for
Speaker 1: your question. Um. I've got another letter here from Natasha
Speaker 1: about our Lesbian wage Gap episode, and Natasha writes, I
Speaker 1: listened to the Lesbian Wage Gap episode today while I
Speaker 1: was out in the yard doing work, and I'm just
Speaker 1: really glad you discussed it as a queer men who
Speaker 1: grew up in a rural area and is continuing to
Speaker 1: work at agriculture, and we'll live in a rural area
Speaker 1: all my life. I really appreciated you talking about the
Speaker 1: members of the queer community who live in rural areas
Speaker 1: and the jobs we do. There's a big myth that
Speaker 1: there's no queer people in rural areas and we all
Speaker 1: want to flee to the cities. So even your discussion
Speaker 1: of poverty and the difficulty living and working in rural
Speaker 1: areas is super appreciated by me, because so often we
Speaker 1: don't exist in anything. I've really been enjoying listening to
Speaker 1: your podcasts as I'm walking fields all day. So thank
Speaker 1: you and keep up the good work. Well. Thank you, Natasha,
Speaker 1: and for all of our listeners. If you want to
Speaker 1: send us and let our mom stuff at how stuff
Speaker 1: works dot com is where you can do that, and
Speaker 1: for let all of our social media as well as
Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources
Speaker 1: so you can learn more about queer fashion and our
Speaker 1: fabulous panelists today. Head over to stuff Mom Never Told
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Speaker 1: other topics. Visit how stuff Works dot com.