Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Stuff
Speaker 1: I'll Never teld you production off I Heart Radio's how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Today, we're talking about dutiful daughters and dutiful children. Um.
Speaker 1: And and this one is personal for me because, um,
Speaker 1: I recently lost my father. And uh so it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a little anecdotal and a little selfish to be honest,
Speaker 1: and trigger warnings for terminal cancer and illness, death and grief.
Speaker 1: And I also want to just stay at the top
Speaker 1: one of my defense mechanisms. It's humor, so right, it
Speaker 1: might sound insensitive. I'm generally not right, generally not. As
Speaker 1: I've said on past podcast, my father was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: terminal cancer several years ago. UM, a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: he was not doing well and he died. In fact,
Speaker 1: as as I was typing up this outline, I got
Speaker 1: a text from my mom and she hardly ever text
Speaker 1: that said I should come home right now because he
Speaker 1: might not have much more time. And she was right,
Speaker 1: because the day I was supposed to go home, um,
Speaker 1: the same day I was supposed to come in and
Speaker 1: record this, he died. Um. I was actually like about
Speaker 1: to leave the apartment and I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: the role of dutiful daughter, what we actually planned this happened, um,
Speaker 1: and how it ripples out and it hits everything else
Speaker 1: in your life, and also what happens when that relationship
Speaker 1: is complicated, and um, I had to go through and
Speaker 1: change everything to the past tense in this outline. So
Speaker 1: if it's wonky, that's why I kept to the original
Speaker 1: one to compare it too, because I'm weird, and also
Speaker 1: because I accidentally captured by immediate before in my immediate
Speaker 1: after what I thought was going to happen and what
Speaker 1: actually happened, And a lot of people when they found
Speaker 1: out this happened, they would always they would ask was
Speaker 1: it sudden? And it reminds me my favorite Buffy quote
Speaker 1: when Tara says about death. It's always said, so we
Speaker 1: do have some numbers here, some not so specific personal numbers. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because we we did want to highlight this is something
Speaker 1: that impacts a lot of us. About forty four million
Speaker 1: US adults care for an older family member or friend,
Speaker 1: and a lot of these caregivers spend twenty hours a
Speaker 1: week on this task, a part time job equivalent. This
Speaker 1: can lead to caregiver burnout, and a lot of women
Speaker 1: do this care about sixty six. The responsibility a woman
Speaker 1: feels to be a caregiver for an aging parent or
Speaker 1: guardian is sometimes called the dutiful daughter syndrome. Smisplaced the
Speaker 1: value of the unpaid informal care women do it one
Speaker 1: forty eight billion to one eight billion dollars. It impacts
Speaker 1: work hours and wages as well as Up to forty
Speaker 1: one percent of middle aged women caregivers experience this. If
Speaker 1: you're taking time off to provide the care, it impacts
Speaker 1: work hours and wages as well. About forty of middle
Speaker 1: aged women caregivers experienced this, and with that, if you're
Speaker 1: taking time off to provide care and promotions and other
Speaker 1: job opportunities. So women who do this care are two
Speaker 1: point four times more likely than those who don't live
Speaker 1: in poverty. Single women have even less options when it
Speaker 1: comes to public programs or providing care. The estimated total
Speaker 1: cost of female caregiving when it comes to social security
Speaker 1: benefits and lost wages is four thousand and forty four dollars. Well,
Speaker 1: that's a lot. The negative impact on a retirement fund
Speaker 1: for caregivers forty dollars or more forty dollars more for
Speaker 1: women as compared to men on average, there's a high
Speaker 1: cost for businesses to three point three billion in lost
Speaker 1: jobs to women who had to quit and three seven
Speaker 1: million dollars and absenteeism or arriving late, leaving early, long
Speaker 1: lunch breaks. With the federal mandates for family paid leaving
Speaker 1: families pay time off, people lose a lot of money
Speaker 1: because they can only they only get to embursed a
Speaker 1: certain amount of times. And it's amazing and as in fact,
Speaker 1: there's oftentimes in contracts where you'll lose your job after
Speaker 1: a certain amount of absentees, but even if it is
Speaker 1: a family emergency, it's pretty high on that one. And
Speaker 1: then there are the negative health consequences for the caregivers too,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to things like depression and anxiety.
Speaker 1: Up to six times more likely to experience these things
Speaker 1: than non caregivers, so there's a lot of social isolation.
Speaker 1: And then of course this hits women of color even
Speaker 1: more and lower income women even more. I read so
Speaker 1: many how to deal with family dynamics when an elderly
Speaker 1: parent is dying articles, and I gotta say my situation
Speaker 1: is Slash was apparently not that bad um, because there
Speaker 1: were tips like expect the worst from your siblings, from
Speaker 1: your parents, from your spouse. Also, I should clarify I
Speaker 1: was on the lighter end of this caregiving. I did
Speaker 1: do a lot of you know, working from home and
Speaker 1: your appointments and doctor appointments and things like that. But
Speaker 1: my mom, who is younger than my dad, UM, she
Speaker 1: did most of it. And UM a part of this.
Speaker 1: I've always felt a kind of responsibility to my parents.
Speaker 1: I call every Sunday. In college, I came home every
Speaker 1: other weekend. Nowadays I do it about once a month,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask if you had a similar experience,
Speaker 1: I would say for my family, so there's myself, an
Speaker 1: older sister, and two older brothers, and my oldest sister
Speaker 1: is probably the main point of contact. She's not the
Speaker 1: oldest of all of us. There's like an older brother,
Speaker 1: my sister, another brother, and then I'm the youngest and
Speaker 1: my brother and I are about the younger brother and
Speaker 1: I are about seven months apart because I'm adopted and
Speaker 1: they are not. But um, she is the point of
Speaker 1: contact and would be the one that does more of
Speaker 1: this than I do. I think if I get any
Speaker 1: updates from the family is from my sister and my
Speaker 1: mother of course, but when it comes in regards to
Speaker 1: like taking care of my parents and as they get older,
Speaker 1: who's responsible for what? And again, my parents were really
Speaker 1: young when they started having children, so they're still kind
Speaker 1: of on the younger side and the healthy. There's no
Speaker 1: no ailments that UM would bring us to come out
Speaker 1: about and having to take care of them out right.
Speaker 1: So I will say for me, I have the lesser
Speaker 1: responsibility because my older sister takes on that. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely another female for sure, but it's not me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And a lot of articles I read did come to
Speaker 1: that conclusion that in families with siblings, UM, it's usually
Speaker 1: if there is a woman, it's usually her right, not
Speaker 1: always though, UM. And for me, when I would call
Speaker 1: my parents, I found out I would speak for like
Speaker 1: forty minutes with my mom and like two minutes with
Speaker 1: my dad, and it was always kind of this, um,
Speaker 1: update on you're doing something to make me proud? Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so proud? And I will say that is the number
Speaker 1: one thing people tell you at a funeral, is your
Speaker 1: dad proud of you? Which I did find interesting and
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this
Speaker 1: other than selfish reasons, is when this for just happened,
Speaker 1: when I first found out, and then things like when
Speaker 1: I first found out my dad was sick, and then
Speaker 1: when our relationship got complicated, which I'll go into a
Speaker 1: little bit more later. UM, I did there are resources
Speaker 1: out there, There are a lot of resources out there,
Speaker 1: but I kind of wanted something more personal or are
Speaker 1: just something like what is this like? What does it
Speaker 1: feel like? Because it doesn't it's complicated, and that you
Speaker 1: feel weird because of that, because there's so many emotions
Speaker 1: swirling around and you don't obviously sick. This and depth
Speaker 1: and family, there's nothing black and white about it, absolutely,
Speaker 1: So for the history section, it's a history about me
Speaker 1: and um, it's it's about me and my dad's illness.
Speaker 1: And also kind of a question I get a lot
Speaker 1: is how did I get this job? Um, which is
Speaker 1: seemingly a fun, safe question, and I don't don't. I
Speaker 1: don't get mad when people ask it, But for me,
Speaker 1: it always comes with this knowledge that I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: share all the time that it's because largely my dad
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with terminal cancer. UM. Because I went to
Speaker 1: college to become a spy. I remember the story this
Speaker 1: is This is one of those moments of like, oh,
Speaker 1: who are you? Are you real? Are you for real?
Speaker 1: For real? Are you a character from a novel? Maybe
Speaker 1: it was this cover or a diplomat. I just I
Speaker 1: really wanted to travel, and you know, I had big
Speaker 1: ideas of helping with peace, although I guess being a
Speaker 1: spy would not really have been beneficial. It could have been. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: every summer I got a job in a different country
Speaker 1: and some type of government nonprofit, and I spent my
Speaker 1: junior year in China. And at first I hated it.
Speaker 1: Oh God, I hated it because no one spoke English.
Speaker 1: No signs are manis were in English opinion, which is
Speaker 1: kind of the anglicized when it's written in English, even
Speaker 1: if it's kind of how it sounds um. And no
Speaker 1: one under stood my not very good Mandarin. I don't
Speaker 1: blame anyone for that. I'm not mad that they didn't
Speaker 1: have anything in English. I was just kind of misled.
Speaker 1: I've sort of led to believe that it would have
Speaker 1: been so I remember very clearly crying alone in my apartments.
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be there, like six eight months with
Speaker 1: a bowl of a cold, cold bowl of cup of noodles,
Speaker 1: and I was eating it with the handle of a
Speaker 1: comb and a toothbrush because I was too embarrassed to
Speaker 1: go out in public or attempt to ask for chopsticks. Also,
Speaker 1: I really should have boiled that water, and I paid
Speaker 1: for that later. But then I fell in love. I
Speaker 1: fell in love, I learned, I met friends, I found
Speaker 1: a tribe. I got bolder and braver, and I really
Speaker 1: did not want to leave. Um. My questionable tribal tattoo.
Speaker 1: I got that because my best friend, one of my
Speaker 1: best friends that I met there. Um, we just randomly
Speaker 1: picked a tattoo to remember each other by because we
Speaker 1: thought we would never see each other again. And I
Speaker 1: feel things really really strong me and I. I I think
Speaker 1: that's great, but it is painful. UM. So when people
Speaker 1: ask me what it means, I always say it means
Speaker 1: I met a once in a lifetime friend in China.
Speaker 1: And then the people in China they offered me a job,
Speaker 1: a forever job, and I decided I wanted it. I
Speaker 1: wanted to move to China, but I had to go
Speaker 1: back to the US first and graduate early and get
Speaker 1: the documentation and also a very long story. But I
Speaker 1: was in China legally too, um and moved my stuff
Speaker 1: and that was my plan. And I kept this plan
Speaker 1: for my parents because I knew they would not approve.
Speaker 1: And I graduated early into this day that it is
Speaker 1: one of my biggest regrets because I didn't declare early enough.
Speaker 1: It's strange heart works here. Um. I did not get
Speaker 1: all all the minors and certificates that I earned, and
Speaker 1: it would cost me too much to go back to
Speaker 1: school just to declare and get them. I got the
Speaker 1: documentation though, I got an apartment in China, and then
Speaker 1: I told my parents and they told me, hey, your
Speaker 1: dad has terminal cancer and when you come back, you
Speaker 1: might be visiting a tombstone. And my mind went totally blank,
Speaker 1: and all my plans, all my plans and the future
Speaker 1: I had been so excitedly preparing it fell away, and
Speaker 1: I was holy had five to eight years. So now
Speaker 1: I was torn because I had friends telling me you
Speaker 1: had to live your own life, you can't drop everything.
Speaker 1: And I had other people telling me, you know, families, everything,
Speaker 1: you need a treasure this time meanwhile, years ago, when
Speaker 1: years ago, years ago, so even years ago within this past, um,
Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I had applied to
Speaker 1: a job online at the house stuff Works office in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and the time I wanted to make documentaries. The
Speaker 1: response I got was lulls, you're too young. Apply again.
Speaker 1: We really like your enthusiasm. And I never did apply
Speaker 1: again because I lost hope that I could ever make
Speaker 1: money off of that and um I I swear swear.
Speaker 1: The final week before I had to make the decision
Speaker 1: to move to China or not to move to China,
Speaker 1: I get a call from the house stuff Works office
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and I had an updated my resume HUT
Speaker 1: and replied this was out of the blue, but they
Speaker 1: wanted me to come in for an interview. When I
Speaker 1: told my parents about this, they were ecstatic. Yes, you
Speaker 1: have to go. There is that you have to You
Speaker 1: want to do this since high school and if you
Speaker 1: get the job, you could stay and be close and
Speaker 1: in case something happens to your dad. Of course, I
Speaker 1: went into the interview thinking I have no qualifications, I'll
Speaker 1: never get this. Um but I was enthusiastic and I
Speaker 1: was prepared and Jerry, Yes from stuff you should know.
Speaker 1: She interviewed me and she hired me, and I did
Speaker 1: accept it, in part because I was super excited, and
Speaker 1: in part because at the time it was an internship
Speaker 1: and I thought that, you know, when it's up, I
Speaker 1: could go to China. Then I still had technically to
Speaker 1: wait for graduation. UM, and this internship was college credit.
Speaker 1: And in part because I did feel a responsibility to
Speaker 1: be close to home in case, and because I'm a
Speaker 1: quick learner and fun to work with. If I don't
Speaker 1: say so much, I find to walk with thank you, UM,
Speaker 1: just the best all around. UM. When the internship was up,
Speaker 1: I got offered a full time job, and again I
Speaker 1: had to wrestle with this decision, except now I had
Speaker 1: a job and co workers I adored in Atlanta and
Speaker 1: one in China. So eventually I gave up my apartment
Speaker 1: in China surprise, surprise, because you're listening to this podcast,
Speaker 1: and accepted the full time position. But I did, and
Speaker 1: still do. You suffer from a massive case of imposter syndrome,
Speaker 1: and I thought I would be fired at any time.
Speaker 1: I was super replaceable. We're going to go into this
Speaker 1: morning an upcoming podcast, and UM, that combined with the
Speaker 1: fact that my dad was sick, that convinced me to
Speaker 1: stay to move back into my parents house. So for
Speaker 1: three years I commuted three hours a day on a
Speaker 1: seven and I am a three pm schedule to avoid
Speaker 1: traffic as much as possible. I had no social life.
Speaker 1: My mom and I became super close, so and I do,
Speaker 1: I really do treasure that and I don't regret it
Speaker 1: at all, even though you sometimes I wonder, like how
Speaker 1: things could be right if I had gone on this
Speaker 1: other trail, what alternate timeline? Annie? What is she doing? Um?
Speaker 1: And I felt a real responsibility to keep everyone happy.
Speaker 1: And I think this is and has been my role
Speaker 1: in my family. And I'm the one that makes people laugh.
Speaker 1: That's fun, that doesn't cost trouble. As I've said, I've
Speaker 1: had I have difficulty expressing negative emotion. I felt like
Speaker 1: this was my job to any distress I was feeling,
Speaker 1: and to keep everyone happy. But it took a toll,
Speaker 1: and eventually I couldn't do it anymore. Um, even though
Speaker 1: I felt extremely guilty and moved out, and then I
Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta. UM. And that's kind of the overwarking
Speaker 1: thing I feel for so many things we talked about
Speaker 1: with women, but when it comes to death is guilt,
Speaker 1: Like I feel guilty for you been talking about this.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm fishing for sympathy or something. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm doing it any good for you? Yes, But then,
Speaker 1: of course things got even more complicated, because that's light
Speaker 1: for you. But before we get into that, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a quick break for word from our sponsor and
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. Alright. So as the years
Speaker 1: went by, things got worse. It was like my dad
Speaker 1: became a different person and he did things that were
Speaker 1: very hurtful. And I don't want to talk too much
Speaker 1: about it, but this really complicated our relationship and his
Speaker 1: relationship with the rest of my family. And I've said
Speaker 1: it before on the show. I believe people can do
Speaker 1: all kinds of impressive mental olympics to convince themselves that
Speaker 1: they are the hero in their own story. And him,
Speaker 1: as a dying man, he was doing nothing wrong. Even
Speaker 1: though he lost his job, he lost his friends. We
Speaker 1: were being the unreasonable ones, and um, he and I
Speaker 1: had a huge falling out. He believed I wasn't sad
Speaker 1: enough for him, or not sad in the right way.
Speaker 1: And it's really hard. This is when I wish there
Speaker 1: had been a resource for me and that there are,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Like at the time, I couldn't
Speaker 1: find anything, and I even thought about doing like a
Speaker 1: video show, but then I thought if my family sees um,
Speaker 1: because it's really hard to accurately capture everything I felt.
Speaker 1: I was terribly sad that I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: express it or what to say, and I was hurt
Speaker 1: and confused and furious, so furious. I felt like my dad,
Speaker 1: the man I knew, had died and in his place
Speaker 1: was a shell. He was hurting me the people I loved,
Speaker 1: over and over and over, and I got angrier and
Speaker 1: angrier as years passed and his behavior continued. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it's like to live with terminal cancer, and
Speaker 1: I don't know what it does to you, but when
Speaker 1: you're being hurt over and over by someone you you respected,
Speaker 1: it's hard not to get angry. And I will say
Speaker 1: I was relieved when no one blamed my mom for
Speaker 1: staying with him, because it was kind of there's a
Speaker 1: word it's I think it's Spanish. There's a word in Spanish.
Speaker 1: I think for this when there's kind of a secret
Speaker 1: that everyone knows but no one discusses. Everyone knew this
Speaker 1: was happening and no one was talking about it. But
Speaker 1: I was glad. No one blamed my mom for staying
Speaker 1: with him because I expected that. Um, I've seen it
Speaker 1: over and over, but no one really did to my knowledge.
Speaker 1: And again I felt guilty. I thought it was my fault.
Speaker 1: If I hadn't moved to Atlanta, maybe none of this
Speaker 1: would have happened. I could have kept everyone together, kept
Speaker 1: everyone happy. I felt such overwhelming guilt and failure. Um,
Speaker 1: and I I just had this, this dutiful thought. It like,
Speaker 1: I thought I had to keep the family together and
Speaker 1: I failed at it. And I was guilty at how
Speaker 1: angry I felt a dying man, and I kept telling
Speaker 1: myself I'll be so relieved when he dies. I felt
Speaker 1: guilty for even admitting that aloud, and I felt guilty
Speaker 1: for making this about me when he's the one that died.
Speaker 1: But human person. I think I would have felt better
Speaker 1: if I had known what I was going through. It
Speaker 1: was pretty normal, or at least I wasn't the only one. Right. No,
Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely normal. And I would vack you
Speaker 1: into saying that it's there's a lot of complications, and
Speaker 1: I know you and I talked about this a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago when we sat down and said, just because
Speaker 1: someone dies doesn't erase their past behavior, and yes, be
Speaker 1: moorn and we will. We should never you know, put
Speaker 1: that aside as to the good that they have done
Speaker 1: and to celebrate who they were, hopefully in some of
Speaker 1: the ways in their lives. But also it doesn't erase
Speaker 1: the pain and the hurt that can happen in between,
Speaker 1: and you have to be able to process that and
Speaker 1: to push it aside is unhealthy as well. And that's
Speaker 1: for any daughter. That whole idea of keeping things together
Speaker 1: or being the peacekeeper and being the glue does damaging
Speaker 1: in itself. UM And and you and I don't. We
Speaker 1: would use the word prunification, and I had to explain
Speaker 1: what that was. When a child becomes the parent and
Speaker 1: trying to take care of others and they're a longer children,
Speaker 1: it's kind of that same idea when they take on
Speaker 1: the responsibility of I should have been this in this
Speaker 1: family when that should have never been asked the view.
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, and we do have a future episode
Speaker 1: coming up on UM like tips for for helping someone
Speaker 1: who's going through hard time, including grief and um. One
Speaker 1: of them is uh, and I thought this was really interesting.
Speaker 1: Don't over sanitize someone's memory, right, um, but future episode
Speaker 1: or future episode. Um. So. Another part of this, this
Speaker 1: guilt that I was feeling, is both not being able
Speaker 1: to help my mom as much as I felt like
Speaker 1: I should, and also not being able to do my
Speaker 1: best at work because I'm juggling these doctor's appointments and
Speaker 1: liars appointments and just being there when things are bad.
Speaker 1: And now grief itself. Um. On nights out with friends,
Speaker 1: I would get a text about my family situation, I
Speaker 1: would feel this ups well of such grief, and it
Speaker 1: was something that I put on myself. But I don't.
Speaker 1: I think societally we do expect that women. We put
Speaker 1: more of an expectation on them to too, to be
Speaker 1: a part of these things, to be there for that stuff,
Speaker 1: and and us we're set up to feel guilt. Um.
Speaker 1: And And another part I wanted to mention to this
Speaker 1: that I didn't really see anywhere but was such a
Speaker 1: big part of my experience is the just anxiety every
Speaker 1: time you get a tax or an email or phone
Speaker 1: call anything, because that really takes it toll, especially like
Speaker 1: as the years go on oh um, and not to
Speaker 1: mention when you're on a podcast and you need to
Speaker 1: be on and you've just gotten terrible news or you
Speaker 1: you've got to find a place to cry where no
Speaker 1: one will hear you. And that's become a whole thing
Speaker 1: in this I'll tell you what. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of space. We're growing too big, so there's no private
Speaker 1: space to sleep or cry. There are many threads going
Speaker 1: on about it right now. No joke, um, because because
Speaker 1: you don't want people to think of being emotional forbid
Speaker 1: and the guilt of even having the thoughts when asked
Speaker 1: to help out your dying father and you think, what,
Speaker 1: I have all this work to do that it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: And then you end up for going sleep and working
Speaker 1: all hours of the night because you want to do both.
Speaker 1: And I felt guilty asking for help um or asking
Speaker 1: people to reschedule things. There's one infamous episode where I
Speaker 1: was sobbing before I came into record. Did the episode
Speaker 1: left smile on my face was stopping immediately after. And
Speaker 1: every time I think of that episode, I am both
Speaker 1: sad and impressed. And I can't even imagine when it
Speaker 1: was like for my mom. She she couldn't leave the
Speaker 1: house towards the end unless she could find a sitter.
Speaker 1: Um My dad couldn't really walk anymore, so she slept
Speaker 1: on the couch and he just wasted away before her eyes.
Speaker 1: And I I just feel it's guilt for everything everything
Speaker 1: right now, UM. And I did want to talk about
Speaker 1: performative grief because this is something that's been really even
Speaker 1: before this for me. UM. Because I do not grieve
Speaker 1: in a way that many find acceptable, especially for women.
Speaker 1: I usually don't cry, at least not at first. UM.
Speaker 1: I get angry, I get piste off, and I have
Speaker 1: been called out by people for not behaving appropriately. Like
Speaker 1: even the fact that I'm doing this, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm going to get called out for not sad enough. Um.
Speaker 1: And I have seen a lot of grief in my day,
Speaker 1: and I can tell you it looks different for everyone.
Speaker 1: So don't assume people aren't feeling pain because it doesn't
Speaker 1: look like how you think it should look. UM. And
Speaker 1: this is especially tricky when you have had a bad
Speaker 1: relationship with someone and some know it and some don't.
Speaker 1: Because you get dang for not grieving enough, are grieving
Speaker 1: too much? Are pretty much just told how you should
Speaker 1: feel about the whole situation, right. I think overall, grief
Speaker 1: has become such a blanket overall that they think that
Speaker 1: assumes it's one thing, and then you've got to zone
Speaker 1: in and realize you as an individual, you may not
Speaker 1: even know how you should react, so they're full or
Speaker 1: why would anybody else understand it for you? I think?
Speaker 1: And that for me, I know, for grief, and many
Speaker 1: of the times I have a shutdown period where I
Speaker 1: don't realize what's happening, and that might be me being
Speaker 1: dazed and confused literally where I'm just kind of normally
Speaker 1: walking again numb, being numb or being angry as some say,
Speaker 1: or me sometimes I just need to be distracted. And
Speaker 1: I don't think people will understand this is a thing.
Speaker 1: I know, like when you and again coming back to
Speaker 1: you and I talking and I'm like, what do you need?
Speaker 1: Which type of person are you? And I will be
Speaker 1: that person that you need. And that's the understanding is
Speaker 1: that this is not again um necessarily right or wrong,
Speaker 1: but it's just what you need at that time and
Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah, And that's something I read a lot too,
Speaker 1: is the stages of grief, that thing that we all
Speaker 1: know is kind of misleading because it's just to bounce
Speaker 1: us all over and it might not. You might not
Speaker 1: get all those you might get all of them in
Speaker 1: then more it's right. It's complicated, I will say. Like
Speaker 1: my body at first, when I was going through this,
Speaker 1: it was doing all kinds of weird things, like I
Speaker 1: was floating or falling, like I had that swooping dropping
Speaker 1: feeling in my stomach all the time, was she ring.
Speaker 1: I was like crying and trances, and I had this
Speaker 1: like pretful position I kept getting in um and in
Speaker 1: my mind it was doing like the possession montage scene
Speaker 1: in movies, like you hear the screaming and then that
Speaker 1: turns into the trink and then that turns into another thing,
Speaker 1: and it just everything feels really volatile and loud and
Speaker 1: like I can't quite catch any thought before it would
Speaker 1: fall away and it would lead into something else. I
Speaker 1: didn't leave my apartment for a week, and I had
Speaker 1: almost a panic attack response to going outside for the
Speaker 1: first time. My neighbors they were I heard them outside
Speaker 1: my door, whispering and kind of the fake movie voice.
Speaker 1: Do you think she's so good? Um? And then I
Speaker 1: made I made the worst really did. I watched The
Speaker 1: Lion King the Day of Right, and I'm like, why
Speaker 1: did you watch the two minutes in I thought, oh no,
Speaker 1: but I'm so tedn't do anything about it. Um And
Speaker 1: things things feel really precious in a way that they
Speaker 1: did it before. Like I keep seeing this little funeral
Speaker 1: pamphlet and I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 1: I've got to do something, um And through this process,
Speaker 1: I have had to battle with myself a lot when
Speaker 1: it comes to feeling weak or um or allowing myself
Speaker 1: to grieve or to have space and having it be
Speaker 1: okay to ask people for help. And you have been great, Samantha,
Speaker 1: and so have so many of my friends and coworkers.
Speaker 1: But it is like a constant battle because I'm always
Speaker 1: and I feel again, a lot of a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and especially women, do feel like I can't misswork or
Speaker 1: have so much to do and I can't take this time.
Speaker 1: And then there's another part of me like, no, take
Speaker 1: this to right this whole like need to care for others,
Speaker 1: So trying to care for yourself it's really difficult, or
Speaker 1: asking to care for yourself is a really difficult road
Speaker 1: to go to. And I think most women understand that
Speaker 1: when you are the main focal point of being the
Speaker 1: center of caring or giving or or propping someone up,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you need it, you
Speaker 1: don't even know where to go to how to do it.
Speaker 1: What that looks like for you as an individual who
Speaker 1: and I will say for me, person who tries to
Speaker 1: be independent all the time and clearly like clearly argue
Speaker 1: with people, be like I don't need you. Stop that
Speaker 1: um to ask for help feels like weakness because for
Speaker 1: so long I feel like I've had to prove my
Speaker 1: strength and strength being independence or being the one who
Speaker 1: helps others. Asking for help feels so vulnerable and oddly open,
Speaker 1: and you don't know how to react to that when
Speaker 1: you have been ficially clinging to I am independent, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I can be single and do this
Speaker 1: and this of course that's just from my own like viewpoint,
Speaker 1: because I, as a single, independent person, is like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't need you. I don't need no persons. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, if you are a caregiver,
Speaker 1: once again, the one who's been the shoulder for people
Speaker 1: lean on to ask for that seems really, really foreign.
Speaker 1: It does, It absolutely does. And I just kept having
Speaker 1: this over overarching thought of like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: bother anybody, right, which I think A yell at you
Speaker 1: a lot about you? Did you? Did I say yell?
Speaker 1: I was nice about that? I was there? Did I
Speaker 1: have the mom face when I said to see you?
Speaker 1: And You've got in that position like my social work phase.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I appreciated it. Uh. And this whole thing
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of how in Midsummer the movie
Speaker 1: no spoilers, but the main character keeps running away to
Speaker 1: hide from the other characters while she grieves, like she
Speaker 1: goes and hides in like a closet on the plane
Speaker 1: she gets in the plane bathroom because she doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like she can share that part of herself with others
Speaker 1: or be that vulnerable with others. Um and yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the day after my dad did had the surprise
Speaker 1: party to go to. And I've thought about this a
Speaker 1: lot because I was the decoy and we've been planning
Speaker 1: it for months and finally finally finally got the person
Speaker 1: to bite. And then my mom told me she she
Speaker 1: wanted she didn't want me to come home until the
Speaker 1: day of the funerals, so that meant I did have
Speaker 1: this day free. I don't know if that was mom code.
Speaker 1: I'm still not sure. UM. So I went to the
Speaker 1: party and I pulled it off and it was the
Speaker 1: performance of a lifetime. But I keep thinking about the
Speaker 1: fact that I felt like I had to like I
Speaker 1: had to be strong, um And to me, that shows
Speaker 1: just how much we looked down upon expressing emotions, are
Speaker 1: voicing our needs, um that we see that as weakness,
Speaker 1: and I do. I did have fun. It was nineties
Speaker 1: theme I wore on my Space Jam Jersey. I was
Speaker 1: a hit. Of course you were. But I think that
Speaker 1: right we we've turned it into such a a weakness really,
Speaker 1: and it's it's not that's the whole idea between being
Speaker 1: a dutiful daughter doing your duty and being that as
Speaker 1: the caretaker or the strong person or the um quiet
Speaker 1: supportive type, whatever it is, whatever that dutiful daughter looks like.
Speaker 1: That's for me. I feel like I've disappointed my family, family,
Speaker 1: my father left and right because I'm no longer this's
Speaker 1: a religious individual who at one point in time I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna be a missionary and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this this, and then I'm going to tell people
Speaker 1: about Jesus, which is all great and well if you
Speaker 1: do this with loving kindness. But we've come to such
Speaker 1: an impact that I feel like I disappoint my dad
Speaker 1: a lot and not be And it's not so much
Speaker 1: that I feel like he I'm obligated to him for
Speaker 1: something or um in our relationship was not rocky in
Speaker 1: the sense of like he's not a selfish man in
Speaker 1: that realm um of he will love his family. His
Speaker 1: family will always come first to him, Like I know
Speaker 1: that for a fact. And that's not that's something that
Speaker 1: I think is beautiful. However, because this huge divide politically
Speaker 1: and religiously, you can tell he's disappointed that I'm not
Speaker 1: his quote unquote little girl. Yeah, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: that's you can get painful. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: have to hide things from him because I've already disappointed
Speaker 1: him just beating me. Yeah, and it it's difficult because therefore,
Speaker 1: your duty is to portray a character, right, and it
Speaker 1: is hard, Oh for sure. Like I said, when I
Speaker 1: was at the week, everything, everybody kept coming up to
Speaker 1: me and saying, he's so proud of you, and I
Speaker 1: kept thinking, I'm not sure he knew me, and that's
Speaker 1: not a great thought to have, but you feel like
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: this is because in therapy it kept coming up that
Speaker 1: I had this guilt, such guilt about not being there
Speaker 1: for my family, and she was like, you, you've you've
Speaker 1: taken on this dutiful daughter thing too much. But I've
Speaker 1: seen it in so many of my other friends as well,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just felt this duty for my dad
Speaker 1: in particular, like to make him proud, not rock the boat,
Speaker 1: make him happy, and I can't. I don't think that
Speaker 1: was the best for a healthy relationship. Well, we have
Speaker 1: a little bit more for you, but first we have
Speaker 1: one more kickbreake for word from our sponsor, remember back,
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, so um forres this whole experience. I
Speaker 1: just this is so surreal right now, this whole thing.
Speaker 1: I was never afraid of death before, but seeing my
Speaker 1: dad and he was in a hospital bed in our
Speaker 1: living room towards the end, and he slept most of
Speaker 1: the day and he watched movies and he said like
Speaker 1: this could be the last time I closed my eyes.
Speaker 1: And he was watching this old shirt like Homes movie
Speaker 1: and that has stuck with me so much. Um and
Speaker 1: just is feeling of being there and moments being so
Speaker 1: bleeding and precious and you don't know, you don't know
Speaker 1: until it happens. Um And and right before a few
Speaker 1: weeks before my dad died, um there is she my
Speaker 1: therapist said, if there's something you want to say, now
Speaker 1: is the time to say it. And I couldn't think
Speaker 1: of anything. And I feel guilty about that too. Um.
Speaker 1: I kept hoping something would come to me. And almost
Speaker 1: everything I've read says you will look back and regret
Speaker 1: if you weren't there for said person, if you didn't
Speaker 1: try them infence this, so I will see. I think
Speaker 1: that's too easy and scapegoating h to be honest, because
Speaker 1: that's not fair, uh, for so many individuals who did
Speaker 1: not have the opportunity to do so, or who do
Speaker 1: all have the relationships to do so. Because do you
Speaker 1: really want to end with something that's argumentative? Is that
Speaker 1: any better? You know? Your last word or an argument
Speaker 1: or something along those lines. And and I think there's
Speaker 1: one thing about making peace with things, and I think
Speaker 1: it's too easy to be like, you need to do
Speaker 1: this and you have to do this and regret. It's
Speaker 1: always going to be there. There's never gonna be any
Speaker 1: time you're not going to regret something in the story.
Speaker 1: You can be the smartest and the best relationship whatever,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna wish you had done dot dot dot.
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry. I think I think it's just too
Speaker 1: easy to say that because death is final, obviously, and
Speaker 1: if anything is final, there's going to be a point
Speaker 1: of regret or something that you're gonna miss or something
Speaker 1: that wish you could happen. And that's just it's just
Speaker 1: always going to be. It's just always going to be. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And again, one of the the whole reasons I wanted
Speaker 1: to do this was because you don't really Again, that's
Speaker 1: what I found online. This was the advice I found,
Speaker 1: and I think that is for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: probably great advice. And if you do, if there's any
Speaker 1: part view that wants to menences, but sometimes it just ends.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just how it is. Some things are unhealthy,
Speaker 1: some things are some things are um And yeah, the
Speaker 1: fact that we've been doing like this whole the trauma
Speaker 1: thing alongside this, it's gotten all tied up and complicated.
Speaker 1: But I do hope that I remember the good things.
Speaker 1: Our relationship was always a little complicated, but he did
Speaker 1: raise me, he gave me good memories, and I loved him.
Speaker 1: And towards the end, I hated him and I loved him,
Speaker 1: And because relationships and people are complicated, that's been really
Speaker 1: hard to reconcile. And I guess I really hoped the
Speaker 1: hate would inoculate me more, but it just made things harder.
Speaker 1: And I thought I was going to come up with
Speaker 1: something really wise about that. But that's all I have
Speaker 1: to say about it, right, And honestly, when I was
Speaker 1: sitting with you and we were having this conversation because
Speaker 1: I met you before even this podcast on Father's Day,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that was our first initial a meeting and
Speaker 1: I hang out. You and a friend of ours came
Speaker 1: to the brewery that I was working at and we
Speaker 1: were having exchange, exchanging stories as to why we were
Speaker 1: not at home my Father's Day, and I remember you
Speaker 1: gave me your bit in my face. I think I dropped.
Speaker 1: My my mouth dropped a little bit, and I was like, what, um,
Speaker 1: So I didn't know before all the drama happened, but
Speaker 1: the one thing you kept saying to me as you
Speaker 1: were in the middle of grief or and and you
Speaker 1: are in the middle, but at the very beginning is
Speaker 1: the good things that you were talking about, the good things.
Speaker 1: And I thought that was really beautiful because as where
Speaker 1: I was thinking like the negative things that I heard
Speaker 1: about him, which I don't know this man at all,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that your family at all. I
Speaker 1: just know some of the incidents that happened that you
Speaker 1: were still clinging to the beauty of it. You're still
Speaker 1: trying to find the photos of you know, did you
Speaker 1: find those? It is in my apartment somewhere. Um. But
Speaker 1: that's the thing, is like, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: As bad as things have been, there are still some
Speaker 1: good things, um, a lot of good things. And you're
Speaker 1: an amazing woman and you have done amazing things. And
Speaker 1: and whether it's in spite of or because of it's created, yeah,
Speaker 1: a better version or the version of who you are.
Speaker 1: And it's beautiful. Thank you. You are a beautiful individual.
Speaker 1: And it's okay to be confused because again there's nothing
Speaker 1: this is normal, but there's no normal reaction. Death is
Speaker 1: death is inevitable. I said it again, there we did.
Speaker 1: But the outside thing with that is there is no
Speaker 1: normal reaction, and there's not anything that is good for
Speaker 1: one person as it is for the other person. And
Speaker 1: the likelihood of it is there's gonna be so many things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like everything is gonna be bumbled up into what the
Speaker 1: hell just happened? How am I reacting? Do I want
Speaker 1: to think about it? How do I think about it?
Speaker 1: What do I do to keep going? And at the end,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be okay, Yeah, and you're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: Thank you? You are okay? I am. You are wonderful,
Speaker 1: So are you? And I do I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1: And I've had such a a wonderful support group and
Speaker 1: I do not take that for granted at all. Um,
Speaker 1: your pillow pet, Yeah, you want to thank your pillow,
Speaker 1: precious pillow pat, either Ruby or Rudy, depending on who
Speaker 1: you ask. Um. I do feel like I've been grieving
Speaker 1: for years and right now to end on what I
Speaker 1: hope is kind of a weird funny note. I feel
Speaker 1: like what I am, I'm in what I called a
Speaker 1: dolphin stage. Um. The sadness is always there, that's right
Speaker 1: below the surface, but sometimes it comes up for air
Speaker 1: and then it goes back under again. It makes no
Speaker 1: sense to me. That was new to me. I don't
Speaker 1: know it makes sense now that's new to me. Um
Speaker 1: or that looky quote from thor Ragnarok. It varies from
Speaker 1: a moment in the final shout out to Harry Potter
Speaker 1: because me and my young nephew talked about it for
Speaker 1: it probably wasn't hours, but it felt like hours at
Speaker 1: the week he was quizzing me me, I felt like
Speaker 1: it was finally my time to shine. Did you also
Speaker 1: get tipped? Because you get at the week? My uncle
Speaker 1: did it in like that bribeway where you like here,
Speaker 1: and there was twenty dollars. It's bad and it saved
Speaker 1: me later because I needed it for gas money. So
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what you got tipped? Yeah? Apparently
Speaker 1: I was entertaining what apparently apparently? Um So, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of what's been going on with me. UM.
Speaker 1: And I know that I am not alone in this
Speaker 1: um And to people going through the same thing, I
Speaker 1: hope that you know that you are not alone. And
Speaker 1: there are a lot of resources out there. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of support groups. I do my best to
Speaker 1: balance where I can. It's a work in progress. Everything's
Speaker 1: a work in progress. It is okay, it is, and
Speaker 1: I it. I personally would love to hear from anybody
Speaker 1: in different countries kind of what what's different about the
Speaker 1: grieving process, if anything, um or just any stories advice
Speaker 1: where we're all ears and you can email us at
Speaker 1: Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I Never Told You. The protection
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcast
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio is at the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.