Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
Speaker 1: I never told you production of I Heart Radios. How
Speaker 1: stuff works. For today's episode, it's kind of a follow
Speaker 1: up on on one that we did recently on body positivity. Um.
Speaker 1: And before we get into it, trigger warnings at the
Speaker 1: top for very brief discussions of sexual assaults, UM and suicide.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we recently did an episode on body positivity
Speaker 1: and you need Antha suggested that we do a companion
Speaker 1: episode on mental positivity, which is a broad term that
Speaker 1: I think we coined. Are we coining Are we coining
Speaker 1: it right now? Maybe? And we just said it because
Speaker 1: it is a language but linkage, but it's more of
Speaker 1: like mental health, mental health, yes, care, mental health care,
Speaker 1: mental care, yes, um, And we'll yeah, well it's a
Speaker 1: pretty broad term, but we're gonna we're I guess talking
Speaker 1: about this in part because there is a lot going
Speaker 1: on in the world and in our personal lives, and
Speaker 1: it does seem like, um, there's a lot of mental
Speaker 1: health issues impacting women, and um, how we take care
Speaker 1: of our mental health something that is always good to discuss, um,
Speaker 1: and how we can support each other, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's been a rough few years for many non binary
Speaker 1: and female identifying population, and whether it's due to situations
Speaker 1: or just overall physical and emotional taxation due to the environment. UM,
Speaker 1: I've seen more and more of my really close and
Speaker 1: dear friends suffer without considering enough about their mental health.
Speaker 1: And when they do, and when I do, oftentimes, UM,
Speaker 1: we add on more guilt for actually taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I say that again as I'm one of those
Speaker 1: that does this. And of course I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: make this a self help podcast necessarily. I'm not about
Speaker 1: bad I'm not license therapist in any way, but I
Speaker 1: think there's something to be said to making sure you
Speaker 1: are friends in this minty world and those around remember
Speaker 1: to give themselves or ourselves permission to care for ourselves
Speaker 1: and not forget that there is a lot of biological
Speaker 1: and mental reason as to why sometimes things just feel
Speaker 1: like it's too much. Yeah. Absolutely, And UM, one thing
Speaker 1: we wanted to discuss in this UM this depression. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's going to be kind of the linkash. So
Speaker 1: when we say mental health, UM, I'm doing a broader
Speaker 1: We're talking about a broader term of depression, just an
Speaker 1: overall overwhelming feeling as well as with anxiety, but I'm
Speaker 1: kind of linking it more to depression, the sadness, um,
Speaker 1: the giving up, the hopelessness. So that's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: focus on today. And there are many different types of depression.
Speaker 1: It's not just the simple I'm depressed, although you know
Speaker 1: you don't have to say anything other than that to
Speaker 1: ask for help. That that's just a good term and
Speaker 1: it is what it is. But it's helpful to have
Speaker 1: a definition and understanding of what maybe an underlying issue
Speaker 1: that we should be talking about. So out of the
Speaker 1: mini and plethora of I'm sure identifications and actual titles,
Speaker 1: here are a few, um, some of the ones that
Speaker 1: are gonna be more familiar and probably a little more used,
Speaker 1: um in the public world as opposed to the private world.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? UM, Major depressive disorder,
Speaker 1: which is a severe form of persistent depression. There's a
Speaker 1: feeling of loss of interest in activities or general depressed mood,
Speaker 1: which has to be part of the diagnosis. So there
Speaker 1: are several symptoms in several criteria that has to meet,
Speaker 1: and that's one of the big ones that people know.
Speaker 1: It's very severe in its diagnosis. The persistent depressive disorder
Speaker 1: is used to be known as the dysthymia or a
Speaker 1: low grade persistent depression, which could lasts two years or longer,
Speaker 1: so it's persistent but not as severe as major. And
Speaker 1: then you have the postparted depression or depression due to
Speaker 1: infertility or pregnancy at the same time, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of all that linkage with that hormone um or the
Speaker 1: lack of Then you have the premistral disporte disorder which
Speaker 1: is PMDD, which is pretty severe and I know we
Speaker 1: use some types of birth control to control that as well.
Speaker 1: UM seasonal effective disorder, you all know what that is.
Speaker 1: You get sad in the wintertime. Atypical depression which is
Speaker 1: not persistent, but a pattern of depressive symptoms. So things
Speaker 1: can happen um and you just constantly feel depressed here
Speaker 1: and there. Is not necessarily persistent. And sometimes when you
Speaker 1: have a good thing happened, you're like, hey, everything's fine now,
Speaker 1: but then you hit right back to and then you
Speaker 1: have the situational depression or stress response syndromes, not necessarily
Speaker 1: a psychiatric diagnosis, but it can occur due to stressful
Speaker 1: life events or situations. I know that's pretty common for
Speaker 1: a lot of us. And as we're going through many
Speaker 1: of things, yea many of things. UM, I think that's
Speaker 1: something to keep in mind. It's also important to know
Speaker 1: that people may have varying forms of depression which can
Speaker 1: be diagnosed based on timing, types of symptoms, and an
Speaker 1: actual chemical and biological differences in an individual. And multiple
Speaker 1: types of depression can actually be diagnosed simultaneously, so you
Speaker 1: could have major depressive disorder and persistent depressive disorders. Is
Speaker 1: can be a dual thing. You can have his partum
Speaker 1: with major depressive So there's many many linkages that we
Speaker 1: can't just say is just just this. Um. I'll also
Speaker 1: remember hormones and thyroid issues can cause major roles in
Speaker 1: depression and mood as well. And we do have some
Speaker 1: statistics from Mental Health America for you, and estimated twelve
Speaker 1: million American women suffer from clinical depression annually, about one
Speaker 1: in eight will develop it at some point in their lifetimes.
Speaker 1: And yeah, all kinds of things go into depression. Genetics, hormones, reproduction,
Speaker 1: biological factors like premnstrual syndrome and fertility, childbirth, menopause, and
Speaker 1: societal factors like work stress, family responsibilities, sexual assaults, and poverty,
Speaker 1: and interesting in left just because we were talking recently
Speaker 1: about the daughter syndrome UM dutiful daughter syndrome rather and
Speaker 1: females being the main caregivers, actually they are high risk
Speaker 1: for depression just on top of that. But even so,
Speaker 1: on top of that, if you're UM caring for a
Speaker 1: person who hast dementia, it's twice as likely that you
Speaker 1: will be diagnosed with depression because of that stress level
Speaker 1: and the likelihood of isolation and in itself and just
Speaker 1: not able to cope and not being able to care
Speaker 1: for oneself. So I thought that was interesting to throw
Speaker 1: out there too. Write over fifty of women believe depression
Speaker 1: is a normal part of aging and menopause and do
Speaker 1: not seek treatment for it, and that's where they think, UM,
Speaker 1: their depression is coming from, right, And actually depression in
Speaker 1: women could have a misdiagnosed rate as high as fifty percent.
Speaker 1: So that's and I thought that was fascinating just to
Speaker 1: know that women in general can still be misdiagnosed, even
Speaker 1: though we may be a little more vocal than the
Speaker 1: opposite sex, UM, but it's still misdiagnosed often UM and
Speaker 1: as any stage earlier. Half the women who are diagnosed
Speaker 1: don't even seek treatment. Over fifty of women think that
Speaker 1: depression is totally normal for two weeks or longer after
Speaker 1: giving birth, and that is one of the number one
Speaker 1: reasons people and those identifying as female oftentimes don't seek treatment.
Speaker 1: They believe it will pass, or it would be better,
Speaker 1: or just it's just better to wait it out. And
Speaker 1: oftentimes films will not recognize suppression as being clinical. I
Speaker 1: think the term master depression is a reference to not
Speaker 1: feeling normal or like themselves, but not want to identify
Speaker 1: it as depressed or being depressed, and there is a
Speaker 1: likelihood like myself, I don't realize I'm going through a
Speaker 1: depressive episode UM until the physical signs actually come out.
Speaker 1: So my physical signs are fatigue and even muscle pains
Speaker 1: and over excessive need for sleep because a constant tiredness,
Speaker 1: which is fatigue. And it was noticed sometimes that the
Speaker 1: actual feeling of sadness may not always be present, so
Speaker 1: I don't sometimes know that I'm sad, I just know
Speaker 1: my body slowly shutting down. I have done this a lot,
Speaker 1: and even recently after a concern UM after the many
Speaker 1: of health concerns that I've had, you know, all the
Speaker 1: web in d times I've told you about UM. I
Speaker 1: realized that I was depressed. And I've done this throughout
Speaker 1: my life. This is something that I can look back on,
Speaker 1: you know, hindsight, and realize, oh, that what was happening.
Speaker 1: I still sometimes can't even catch it until I'm in
Speaker 1: the middle of it, UM, which is quickly accompanied by
Speaker 1: my guilt because there's nothing really wrong happening in my life,
Speaker 1: which is why I can't recognize why I'm feeling this
Speaker 1: fatigued and tired, and I don't nothing. Nothing makes sense.
Speaker 1: Am I getting too much caffeine? I'm not getting enough caffeine.
Speaker 1: I think that happens a lot of people don't see
Speaker 1: symptoms or don't recognize it, or don't want to know
Speaker 1: it too. Yeah, I think the exhaustion is the one
Speaker 1: for me. If I'm suddenly like it's tired and I
Speaker 1: don't want to do anything, that's a pretty good sign.
Speaker 1: So we do have some more for you listeners. But
Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break for
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you sponsor,
Speaker 1: And we're back with something that I found out has
Speaker 1: an actual name, kind of love it. It's called the
Speaker 1: not as Bad as fallacy. And we have talked about
Speaker 1: this before, for sure, and I've bet a lot of
Speaker 1: you don't even really need actually find it. But it's
Speaker 1: generally when you you feel like someone has it worse.
Speaker 1: So what right have you to to voice your problems?
Speaker 1: Are are complain um? I used to say to a
Speaker 1: friend who always felt bad complaining about quote heavy quote
Speaker 1: minor things when he knew I had so much quote
Speaker 1: major stuff to complain about. And I used to always
Speaker 1: tell them, it doesn't make your problem less legitimate, are
Speaker 1: your feelings less valid? Don't get trapped in that comparing game.
Speaker 1: Comparing problems is not healthy or productive. Although I can
Speaker 1: see some use for putting things in perspective now and again,
Speaker 1: but not like dismissing it or disminishing diminishing it. And
Speaker 1: we did talk about this a little bit in our
Speaker 1: TRAM episodes, how women frequently don't report sexual assault because
Speaker 1: they feel their experience was not as bad as other women's. Um.
Speaker 1: It's almost the opposite of one upping. For instance, if
Speaker 1: someone who has clinical depression compares their situation and their
Speaker 1: relatively quote lighter problems to some one who doesn't have
Speaker 1: depression and is managing better despite having quote heavier problems,
Speaker 1: they might not seek help, and they might internalize that
Speaker 1: in a negative way. They might experience all sorts of
Speaker 1: negative outcomes. And many of us get our self worth
Speaker 1: in part from perceived strength and resilience, which might keep
Speaker 1: us from admitting that we need help or might make
Speaker 1: our self worth take a massive hit. And that's absolutely me.
Speaker 1: I want to be like I'm the strong one. I'm okay,
Speaker 1: I'm stable. It is all good. I don't need any help.
Speaker 1: Yeah I need a lot of help. Well, we're we're
Speaker 1: gonna get through this together. I'm the same way, And
Speaker 1: it's good to have friends that know that about you. Right.
Speaker 1: We all handle problems in different ways, and they impact
Speaker 1: us in different ways. There is no absolute scientific method
Speaker 1: for measuring emotional suffering or pain. Yes, some problems are
Speaker 1: clearly worse in the scale of things, but we all
Speaker 1: know that, and that doesn't mean we should dismiss the
Speaker 1: smaller things. Being sensitive and aware about timing is important.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't, I don't any problem. It just
Speaker 1: does it. We all do it, and it's frustrating when
Speaker 1: you see someone else do it, but then you do. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not as bad as that, right, But in the end,
Speaker 1: there's there's plenty of space where everybody have issues and
Speaker 1: need to fix it. M oh absolutely, And for for
Speaker 1: my recent experience with my dad dying, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to burden other people, especially if I knew they were
Speaker 1: dealing with their own things. And I didn't want to
Speaker 1: ask for help and or bother or upset anybody. Um.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who used to say that by
Speaker 1: trying not to create problems by asking for help, I
Speaker 1: created my own bigger problems and needed more help. I
Speaker 1: think that was one of the things I kept telling you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you need to understand we want to help you.
Speaker 1: Those who really care about you want to help you,
Speaker 1: and when you don't talk to us, it makes us
Speaker 1: feel just like how you're feeling about the fact that
Speaker 1: you couldn't come to us, and we would much rather
Speaker 1: be with you than not and wonder what we could do.
Speaker 1: And that's that's one of the big things for everyone
Speaker 1: to realize. I mean, I'm talking to myself too, because
Speaker 1: in my head I grew up with and this is
Speaker 1: something we talked about with the trauma stuff, not wanting
Speaker 1: to be in people's way, or not wanting to be
Speaker 1: a burden, or not want a feeling like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be rejected, all of those different things, But in actuality,
Speaker 1: those who love you and care for you would much
Speaker 1: rather be there with you than not know what happened
Speaker 1: and come back to, oh my gosh, what happened to you?
Speaker 1: Why couldn't have done this? And I think when we
Speaker 1: talk about like suicide, race and those who have taken
Speaker 1: their own lives, I know those who remain have that
Speaker 1: excess guilt of what could I have done? I didn't
Speaker 1: know um and not everyone, but there's this level and
Speaker 1: not that hopefully it's not on We're not gonna victim
Speaker 1: blame anybody. But the truth of the matter is, in
Speaker 1: any situation, we would rather be there for someone than
Speaker 1: to wonder what we could have done. And that goes
Speaker 1: for everything. Just someone who's going through any tragedy and
Speaker 1: are able to be coming, able to come out of it,
Speaker 1: to be able to be hopefully, I would think in
Speaker 1: my group of friends, they want to be a help
Speaker 1: and they would love to be a part of that.
Speaker 1: And it makes and I don't know if it's karma
Speaker 1: or whatever, but just insentionally like it. It helps them too.
Speaker 1: It is a part of that as well. And I
Speaker 1: think when we were talking about, um, you would not
Speaker 1: want to tell people. You would not want to tell
Speaker 1: people who would gone through similar things I've done, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you doing? Like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to understand anybod I'm like, but no, this is not
Speaker 1: about them. This is about you needing help. And that's
Speaker 1: for everyone and anyone. I get that as a social
Speaker 1: worker on like, I don't want to think I've gone
Speaker 1: through my own things. I can't project this onto you.
Speaker 1: But there's a difference than being in time of need
Speaker 1: and knowing who you can trust and know you can
Speaker 1: talk to and not having to worry about that, right, yes, yes, um,
Speaker 1: And that's something I have experienced doing during this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Um people expressing to me that they feel bad complaining
Speaker 1: about insert whatever problem here, when when you've gone through
Speaker 1: such a loss and it's kind of drying it, it's
Speaker 1: because sometimes as you might have forgotten about it or
Speaker 1: you weren't thinking about it for a second, and then
Speaker 1: it's it comes zooming back and I totally get the instinct.
Speaker 1: I've done it too, um But I don't see anything
Speaker 1: wrong with talking about something else right right, And I'm
Speaker 1: not sure why. When we were researching this, I just
Speaker 1: started wondering why it's so ingrained in us to dismiss
Speaker 1: our own problems um to our own like stressors and anxieties.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? I think that from
Speaker 1: many females and those who identify, and especially those who
Speaker 1: are marginalized marginalized females, the idea of survival and persistence
Speaker 1: means strength in oneself and the desire to not ask
Speaker 1: for help, to be the solution, and not to cause
Speaker 1: problems to not be seen, as I said earlier, a burden.
Speaker 1: There's also this whole secrecy versus attention seeking and I
Speaker 1: think and also a major part of this is being
Speaker 1: ignored a bit. Um So when I talk about being
Speaker 1: a tension seeking or being secrecy, think about the Appellation
Speaker 1: family that kind of became a social They're a group
Speaker 1: in itself and there keep it in the family that idea,
Speaker 1: and part of it keeping in the family is not
Speaker 1: to talk to people, including therapists or anybody else about
Speaker 1: whatever situation is wrong with you. So if you're depressed,
Speaker 1: put on the happy face. Don't not like anything's wrong
Speaker 1: because you're going to bring shame blah blah blah to
Speaker 1: the family or whatnot. So it's supposed to be internalized
Speaker 1: and and supposed to be UM quiet or the attention seekings,
Speaker 1: like if I ask for help, it looks like I'm
Speaker 1: just asking for attention, And I think there's this fear
Speaker 1: that you're that person, especially for females. Oh, she's just
Speaker 1: an attention horror type of mentality. And it's like, Mmm,
Speaker 1: can we just go ahead and push that off the
Speaker 1: table altogether? Um, And I think again, as I was
Speaker 1: talking about being ignored, we already talked about previously, and
Speaker 1: I know the episodes many many episodes of not believing women, UM,
Speaker 1: doctors not believing women in general. As we stated earlier,
Speaker 1: women are misdiagnosed when it comes to depression again up
Speaker 1: to fifty of the time, So that may be a
Speaker 1: problem as well if you actually do feel like there's
Speaker 1: something wrong and you just can't put a finger on it.
Speaker 1: A K A. I'm tired on this and this, but
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily if it physical as much as mental
Speaker 1: health stuff and it's not being believed that you're actually
Speaker 1: tired kind of personality. You know, perhaps that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons you don't want to talk about it, because
Speaker 1: it's I'm just imagining things once again. Or we can
Speaker 1: talk about religion. I know, we brought this up and
Speaker 1: the idea that the suddenologies to be handled through faith
Speaker 1: in prayer. I was actually told that growing up UM,
Speaker 1: I had attempted suicide at the age of twelve, I think,
Speaker 1: And at that point in time, I think I told
Speaker 1: the story where I went to a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: my friend of mine reported to arts school counselor, I
Speaker 1: had to sit down school counselor, report to my family,
Speaker 1: and my family put me into um a room and
Speaker 1: yelled at me about how I embarrassed them, and then
Speaker 1: how I could I not come to them into the church,
Speaker 1: and and how we have you really been praying about this?
Speaker 1: That was the question I was asked UM. And I
Speaker 1: was going through a lot of issues, identity issues. I
Speaker 1: still am, and but this put this whole level of
Speaker 1: shame that I didn't understand growing up UM And because
Speaker 1: I was really really into religion up until past college years,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was failing if I was not
Speaker 1: content and happy and satisfied, And and then the whole
Speaker 1: other part with that was, um, why isn't Jesus enough
Speaker 1: for me? And please don't get me wrong once again,
Speaker 1: I think religion can be beautiful, and I think faith
Speaker 1: is beautiful, and I think people need it as a
Speaker 1: way of coping, and people believe it and that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: But when it comes in overshadows other things such as
Speaker 1: getting medical help or get you know there's a problem,
Speaker 1: there's a problem there, and and being taught that makes
Speaker 1: you want to ignore it because you don't want to
Speaker 1: bring shame on yourself because you don't have enough faith.
Speaker 1: And then I think also there's this whole fear of
Speaker 1: being UH listed or being labeled as crazy, So going
Speaker 1: to a therapist, taking medication, going doing any of these things,
Speaker 1: if you have a mental health disorder, then you are crazy. See,
Speaker 1: And that's not true. I mean even now when we're
Speaker 1: talking about the shootings that have happened, and the first
Speaker 1: thing they label our mass shooters mental health issues and
Speaker 1: that's the only thing you really here as a defense
Speaker 1: mechanism um or a defense rather for them, it becomes
Speaker 1: this whole stigma they were crazy, you know. And don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, I'm sure there's mental health in there.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's like many, many, many issues for anyone
Speaker 1: and everyone, anyone and everyone who feel like they have
Speaker 1: the right to take lives or any of that, or
Speaker 1: have the right to get something. There's some other problems
Speaker 1: we know this, But that label in itself, I think
Speaker 1: deters people with actual problems like this to not want
Speaker 1: to be labeled. And I think those are some of
Speaker 1: the things. I'm sure twenty thousand more reasons could come
Speaker 1: about UM. And I know there's tons of research. As
Speaker 1: I was reading through it, a lot of it was like,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, you may they may deny this, this
Speaker 1: and this and this isn't this, but on the reality
Speaker 1: it is now what do you what can you do?
Speaker 1: I think that's the next part of the columns that
Speaker 1: I've seen when you read through why to how or
Speaker 1: or in UM and I thought it was also fascinating
Speaker 1: that again men there was a whole comparison to men
Speaker 1: versus women, who handles one and how have they handled
Speaker 1: how whatever? But it's still the fact that women also
Speaker 1: may not have the time to seek out help. Again,
Speaker 1: kind of going back to the caregiver's part. But when
Speaker 1: you're trying to quote unquote do it all and take
Speaker 1: care at all, take care of it all, when do
Speaker 1: you have the time? Yeah, you know, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I remember I think I full listened around the podcast
Speaker 1: before the first time I went to therapy. The therapist
Speaker 1: said to me, I think you don't have time for
Speaker 1: therapy and it will stress you out more. And I
Speaker 1: was like agreed because I didn't want to know. But
Speaker 1: I always thought that was kind of strange. It's it's
Speaker 1: almost like there's a level of gaslighting ourselves, like we
Speaker 1: don't we're so ready to not believe ourselves. And I
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting that we do it for our
Speaker 1: past selves too, Like what was that thing about an eighteen?
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything and there is some again perspective there,
Speaker 1: but we're so ready to just dismiss right. Um. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like a reminder that hormones are changing pretty
Speaker 1: fast in those times. And so even though yes, drama
Speaker 1: queen is the term that oftentimes happened to these teenagers
Speaker 1: or whatnot, which is unfortunate, you do need to take
Speaker 1: the time to listen because there's a lot. I think
Speaker 1: that's when I started cutting. Yeah, it was when in
Speaker 1: teenage years and it kind of became a coping mechanism.
Speaker 1: And I don't say I'm not a severe cutter, but
Speaker 1: let me put that out there. I guess we need
Speaker 1: put it this up top two. Um, but like just
Speaker 1: the harming indoor without realizing when I'm gripping myself, you know,
Speaker 1: like in that way, learned it as a teenager. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of habits that begin there as a
Speaker 1: coping mechanism that you need to recognize and go ahead
Speaker 1: and talk to your kids or talked to the kids
Speaker 1: around you about if you see that as a concern. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a really volatile time. Um. For some reason, when
Speaker 1: we mentioned we're going to do us, the first thing
Speaker 1: I thought of was this Seinfeld episode where they're a
Speaker 1: coworker of Elaine. I think her name was Toby. She
Speaker 1: loses her pinky toe, and Elaine feels something like jealousy
Speaker 1: about the amount of sympathy and I think she gets promotion, um,
Speaker 1: which Elaine thinks is because of the pinky toe, because
Speaker 1: she lost her pinky toe and um. One of the
Speaker 1: behind the scenes like commentary and by the way, that
Speaker 1: the toe does get reattached if you're concerned. Spoiler, Sorry
Speaker 1: that didn't even come into my head. Um, but what.
Speaker 1: In the commentary, one of the writers said the inspiration
Speaker 1: for the story came from a woman working on a
Speaker 1: neighboring show who had lost her baby and allegedly or
Speaker 1: coworkers were jealous of the attention their boss gave her. Yeah. Wow,
Speaker 1: this is strange, mind blowing, oh Seinfeld. The thing is,
Speaker 1: if none of us, all seven billion plus people on
Speaker 1: this earth, never discussed our problems because someone out there
Speaker 1: has it worse, we would never talk about the things
Speaker 1: that bother us. All of us but one person who
Speaker 1: drew the most terrible, terrible straws, we wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to have open and honest conversations about what was going
Speaker 1: on in our lives. I wonder who that person would be. Goodness,
Speaker 1: I don't even want yeah, no, no, no no. Um.
Speaker 1: And this is actually important in the context of policy, like, um,
Speaker 1: sure the US has Internet censorship, but China has it worse.
Speaker 1: Like I've heard that, um, which is true, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we don't have a problem, right Or Americans
Speaker 1: men's rights activists who point to women in other countries
Speaker 1: who deal with more sexism, So what are you complaining about, ladies?
Speaker 1: So we see this on bigger, like a larger scale.
Speaker 1: And then there's the when I was your age thing,
Speaker 1: stop complaining. Um, but yeah, kind of getting away from
Speaker 1: the original point. No, but you're right, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: that's exactly kind of where I started thinking about this
Speaker 1: whole idea. UM. I had a conversation with one of
Speaker 1: my good friends recently where she felt her crashing point
Speaker 1: was a silly and ridiculous reason. Um, even to the
Speaker 1: point that her parents asked if something else happened that
Speaker 1: triggered all of these issues, and she felt so weak
Speaker 1: and that that she just couldn't understand why she, as
Speaker 1: an individual who has a great job and has a
Speaker 1: good family at home and everything seemed to be okay,
Speaker 1: why she felt like this and why she was being
Speaker 1: like this. And the truth of that is it is
Speaker 1: not necessarily the issue in itself, but it's what the
Speaker 1: depression is hanging itself on. That's the statement that I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure was said and heard that I
Speaker 1: know this sounds very self help. Is depression in itself
Speaker 1: is its own monster and sometimes we can't explain why
Speaker 1: it's there. It makes sense with like death or loss
Speaker 1: and tragedy, but outside of that, the monster will use
Speaker 1: whatever weakness it may find in an individual to bring
Speaker 1: them down. And that's kind of the reminder. Depression exists
Speaker 1: and haunts some of us all the time, at all times,
Speaker 1: and that's just how it is, how it's gonna be
Speaker 1: forever um. And then that for some it's situational or again,
Speaker 1: as we talked about, a typical these things happens. You
Speaker 1: may just be a sad person in yourself. I think
Speaker 1: I'm more sad and cynical than anything else, um, And
Speaker 1: I have to pretend and play happy and bubbly when
Speaker 1: I have to play that role, and I can go,
Speaker 1: I can get it. But typically I just want to
Speaker 1: be a house and just silently stare at the screen
Speaker 1: and hug my dog. Just the whole idea of shaking
Speaker 1: it off or just letting it go, it's not a
Speaker 1: reasonable option. Just like any element, there's not always a cure,
Speaker 1: and I think you need to be remember every day
Speaker 1: can be different. So one day is gonna be rough,
Speaker 1: next day may be okay, the next day may be
Speaker 1: all of these things happen, and we have flare ups,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's a great day and sometimes it's an
Speaker 1: awful day. And sometimes you don't have a flare up,
Speaker 1: but you have a flare up every day, or you
Speaker 1: don't have one for months at a time. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the reminder that I want to talk about,
Speaker 1: is because we beat ourselves up so often because of A, B,
Speaker 1: C and D. And it can be as easy as
Speaker 1: someone who has gone through hell and back coming back
Speaker 1: and saying I've been blessed because I'm here and ignoring
Speaker 1: that tragedy kind of like thor yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. You know I did that for you, I
Speaker 1: brought that, I brought that back for you. Um, the
Speaker 1: idea that you know, oh yes, I lost all of
Speaker 1: these people, I've lost my pretty much planet planet. He
Speaker 1: lost all of this stuff, but but I'm still here.
Speaker 1: It's okay, and I'm gonna keep fighting for another day.
Speaker 1: And what happened he became a gluten alcoholic, It's okay.
Speaker 1: The idea that you can find any reason to say
Speaker 1: I'm doing this wrong or I shouldn't be doing this.
Speaker 1: But those are the times that when you start ignoring
Speaker 1: things bigger issues happen, and I think for me, the
Speaker 1: idea trying to hold it together there and then you
Speaker 1: fall apart and you see only one solution, which is
Speaker 1: by the way, sometimes haunts you as a person who
Speaker 1: have suicidal tendicities at times, and I have to check myself. Um,
Speaker 1: it's always kind of there and and this is super serious,
Speaker 1: and I apologize. I know this is one of those
Speaker 1: things that I'm like, I think it's necessary. It's always lingering.
Speaker 1: So having a breaking point, even though you have to
Speaker 1: remind yourself and hopefully you're in a good middle state
Speaker 1: to say tomorrow will be different. Things do change, It
Speaker 1: will not always be like this at that moment. You
Speaker 1: may not remember that you know what I mean, And
Speaker 1: I think I just it needs to be a reminder
Speaker 1: that depression is an entity in itself, and it's not
Speaker 1: just because it's not necessarily just because something is happening,
Speaker 1: and so you need to be careful and be able
Speaker 1: to talk and have your support system and be able
Speaker 1: to do all these things, which we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: more later. But I did want to bring that out
Speaker 1: that it is a thing. Depression is a thing that
Speaker 1: is a kind egorical thing that is not necessarily seen
Speaker 1: but definitely felt, indefinitely there in existence on its own.
Speaker 1: It's like you, you come in with the m CU
Speaker 1: reference and then I come in with the Harry Potter yes,
Speaker 1: and it clings to everything, negativity of your life, everything, alright, alright,
Speaker 1: I love how our positivity episodes are always a bummer.
Speaker 1: But we do have some advice for you. But first
Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for word from our
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you spots here. Okay, so advice, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's this is so the beginning. The first
Speaker 1: part for us is to define it and let you
Speaker 1: know so you can recognize it. Sometimes having a title
Speaker 1: is nice, Oh yeah, absolutely, being able to name it's
Speaker 1: very helpful. Right, So that's why we came at the beginning, yes,
Speaker 1: and reinforcing the fact that just because not everything is
Speaker 1: falling apart doesn't mean you may not be feeling that.
Speaker 1: So now coming back with hey, here's some things maybe
Speaker 1: could be helpful. And I hope that you know that
Speaker 1: you're not by yourself, right because this advice is actually
Speaker 1: primarily for other people in your life. So if you're
Speaker 1: going through something, um, if you're in the midst of trauma, grief,
Speaker 1: or some other massive loss. Um. This is more for
Speaker 1: the other people, because it's it's hard when we detect
Speaker 1: stress and people that we care about because we often
Speaker 1: feel it too, and we want to fix it, and
Speaker 1: it cannot necessarily be fixed, and sometimes it can't even
Speaker 1: be made better. Um. And it makes you feel powerless
Speaker 1: and useless, and no one likes those things. It makes
Speaker 1: you face the randomness of life and your own lack
Speaker 1: of control, and that's why we feel so uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: an adequate or or a lot of us feel that way,
Speaker 1: I would imagine. I think it also makes you feel incomplete. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't feel whole anymore. And when you lose a
Speaker 1: loss of self, loss of a bit of who you
Speaker 1: wish you were, but who you once were, there's a
Speaker 1: whole identity crisis in that, So that that people need
Speaker 1: to recognize that even though you're like, but what about
Speaker 1: but there's still that whole trying to piece it back together.
Speaker 1: So you have to be careful in dismissing all of
Speaker 1: those things from other individuals. And if you feel like
Speaker 1: you don't know what to say or do, don't let
Speaker 1: that stop you from reaching out. Everyone, almost everyone feels
Speaker 1: that way, right And this is one of those moments
Speaker 1: where you just come in and say what do you need?
Speaker 1: It's okay to ask and they may not give you
Speaker 1: a straight answer, but sometimes that non answer helps too,
Speaker 1: And I think that's the best way you can do it.
Speaker 1: Just come in and say, I don't know how you're feeling,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you handle and I don't know
Speaker 1: what your coping mechanism is, but what is it? Let
Speaker 1: me see if I can help you. What What do
Speaker 1: you need from me right now? What can't I do?
Speaker 1: And listening is always a good one. Don't avoid the
Speaker 1: subject if it comes up, um. Don't force someone to
Speaker 1: talk about it either. Get comfortable with silence, get prepared,
Speaker 1: be prepared to witness pain and having no solution for it, um,
Speaker 1: and don't really try to offer one, because again there's
Speaker 1: not necessarily you can give like tomorrow will be better.
Speaker 1: You can do things like that. And I say this
Speaker 1: as someone who's in the midst of grief. Grieving folks
Speaker 1: can be a little weird, um, and they're all different,
Speaker 1: so you might feel unappreciated because the other person doesn't
Speaker 1: have the energy to contribute to the relationship in the
Speaker 1: same way. Um, I feel like I was just kind
Speaker 1: of wandering around aimlessly and I would just forget. I'd
Speaker 1: be in the middle of a conversation, I would just forget. Um,
Speaker 1: So be prepared for stuff like that. UM. Maybe don't
Speaker 1: say things like it's God's plan, she or he is
Speaker 1: in a better place. You need to move on. Look
Speaker 1: at all you have to be grateful for. You should
Speaker 1: do whatever insert here they've lived along life, things like that. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: maybe don't tag posts with deceased on Facebook or xes
Speaker 1: or something like that. Right, It's it's you need to
Speaker 1: be very careful and you need to get permission. One.
Speaker 1: This is not necessarily about you, And I say that
Speaker 1: of course if that are your significant other, and do
Speaker 1: what you need to do to grief and such. Um.
Speaker 1: But if you're a friend of a friend who you
Speaker 1: did like them, be careful. Yeah, I would also say, um,
Speaker 1: with all of these things, validate the feelings of an individual.
Speaker 1: So instead of saying God has a plan for you,
Speaker 1: just listen and just say, oh my god, you know so,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling? What do you what do you
Speaker 1: feel about this? What can again coming back with what
Speaker 1: can I do? Whatever, We're just sitting with them and
Speaker 1: ask how are you feeling about this? And then listen,
Speaker 1: because if maybe that person is religious and they say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time, they're in a great better place,
Speaker 1: celebrate that with them. That's fantastic. Go ahead and with that.
Speaker 1: But again, not everyone grieves this way either, And that's
Speaker 1: the same thing for anyone who's going through depression. And
Speaker 1: it has no trauma or tragedy in it, there's no
Speaker 1: reason they have to have a reason. Just ask what
Speaker 1: can I do again? Listen, sit and listen. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's always nice to hear you love them. Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: sure they'll take that in anyway, because I would love
Speaker 1: that being appreciated. It is always always nice. Absolutely, um
Speaker 1: checkens chickens are great them for the long haul too,
Speaker 1: especially on big days if we're talking about something like
Speaker 1: all days, anniversaries, birthdays. I found this quote grief last
Speaker 1: longer than sympathy. Uh. And in those first weeks months,
Speaker 1: people usually don't know what they want, our need, so
Speaker 1: by the time they've figured it out, people have stopped
Speaker 1: asking a lot of times. And I can tell you
Speaker 1: I am afraid like I'll wake up at night, I'm
Speaker 1: like one day, people check it off, so very important,
Speaker 1: very important. Well, and with that, I would add, it's
Speaker 1: not about you. So just because you're uncomfortable, sorry, you
Speaker 1: need to deal with it now. Of course it is
Speaker 1: something because you have PTSD and you have trauma. Of course,
Speaker 1: take care of yourself and look look to yourself and
Speaker 1: see what you need to do is well. But if
Speaker 1: you're someone that has good friends, you should also be
Speaker 1: a good friend and not everyone. And everyone's going to
Speaker 1: experience something sometimes right, and some things may be uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: and I think I dealt with that with my own
Speaker 1: PTSC triggers and sexual assault stuff. And and of course
Speaker 1: obviously we're gonna hear we're hearing so much now, so
Speaker 1: many things today. But one of the things that shut
Speaker 1: me down real hard with a couple of friends of
Speaker 1: mine is just them dismissing me or be saying they're
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and saying that I'm being inappropriate when it's my
Speaker 1: own experience. You don't, please don't be that people, Please
Speaker 1: don't because I'm sorry it makes you feel bad because
Speaker 1: you've never dealt with that. But you need to take
Speaker 1: the time and think what can I do to hell?
Speaker 1: But not? Oh my god, how to avoid this? Right right? Um?
Speaker 1: And one that you've been a good piece of advice
Speaker 1: that you brought up a couple of times is offer
Speaker 1: practical helpful things like getting groceries, food, taking care of errands,
Speaker 1: covering something at work. And yeah, don't depend on the
Speaker 1: person to call you because they probably won't offer concrete
Speaker 1: things with times, and make sure to ask. Things become
Speaker 1: very precious in grief. Um. Something might look like trash
Speaker 1: or laundry to be washed, but it might be a
Speaker 1: precious item of the dead or an x. Um. Be
Speaker 1: sure to check also for the long haul, your help
Speaker 1: might be even more valuable later. Run interference. Yes, that
Speaker 1: was so nice. When someone is going through something, everyone
Speaker 1: wants to help and that's well intentioned but exhausting. So
Speaker 1: having someone there to be like the gatekeeper is really helpful. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I understand what this can look like, what great can
Speaker 1: look like, what depression can look like, and then it
Speaker 1: can look different for everybody, and that it does involve
Speaker 1: a lot of extremes. Um. And when you are going
Speaker 1: through something that's situational something A lot of things I
Speaker 1: read said to watch out for signs of depression. In
Speaker 1: the long term, they don't go away. I also learned
Speaker 1: that apparently recovery takes eighteen and twenty four months on average.
Speaker 1: What I swear this was Samantha's suggestion. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's very selfish because I'm like, Annie needs all
Speaker 1: of this health right now, please check check in on her.
Speaker 1: But it was your idea. It was this is my idea. UM,
Speaker 1: and take care of yourself too, Yeah, don't lose sight
Speaker 1: of your own your own needs. UM. Not doing so,
Speaker 1: you can't be there for the other people in your life. UM.
Speaker 1: And there's I found this really cool thing called the
Speaker 1: Ring theory about the circles of comfort from Susan Silkinberry Goldman.
Speaker 1: It was a article from the l A Times, but
Speaker 1: it just shows how like you need to even if
Speaker 1: somebody going through something terrible and you can, you've got
Speaker 1: to take care of them. But then you've got to
Speaker 1: find something else to take care of you. And I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna come back with as we're talking about
Speaker 1: people who are struggling through depression and just any level
Speaker 1: of depression, whether it's situational wornership, whether it's atypical, whether
Speaker 1: it's postpartum, whether it's UM, major depressive disorder. As I said,
Speaker 1: I think you have to be able to recognize other
Speaker 1: people need you, and sometimes those are the strongest, they're
Speaker 1: the ones that need you the most. And I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of been one of those selfish things for
Speaker 1: me as well, because I do this as a living
Speaker 1: a social worker and UM, my coworker. She is the
Speaker 1: strength of her family. I am. I'm in awe of
Speaker 1: all the things she does and and she needs to
Speaker 1: be checked up on. And I know for her if
Speaker 1: she listens to this UM she is willing to take
Speaker 1: the help, but doesn't ask for it. She tries to
Speaker 1: distance her stelf. But it's hard when it's maybe family,
Speaker 1: or when maybe it's just your job and you have
Speaker 1: to deal with it. If you're struggling with emotion or
Speaker 1: lack of relationship, or because of a relationship, these are
Speaker 1: so many things. Those who seem to be the strongest
Speaker 1: that do all of these things, make sure you're checking
Speaker 1: in on them, because there's also the same people who
Speaker 1: need that help, and sometimes you never know what's happening
Speaker 1: with their lives. They may be the loud genuinely kind,
Speaker 1: you know, bubbly people, but there's so many things that
Speaker 1: they're struggling with that you don't see the same thing
Speaker 1: with anybody you know actually has depression and you just
Speaker 1: don't see them for a while. Check in, Please check
Speaker 1: in UM for those of you who are struggling and
Speaker 1: you see the signs for yourself. You know your body,
Speaker 1: that's the good news. Listen to your body. Listen to
Speaker 1: your body when you know that you need some help.
Speaker 1: Listen to your body when you know that there's something
Speaker 1: not quite right. And we're not talking once again, not
Speaker 1: necessarily about situational things, but just things that are happening
Speaker 1: internally that you don't realize is happening. UM again, and
Speaker 1: we're talking about what's happening today with all of the
Speaker 1: sad videos and all of the things that are happening
Speaker 1: around our country, all of the things that we're having
Speaker 1: to continue to fight about. Recognize that you may be
Speaker 1: taking on more than you know, especially those who have
Speaker 1: higher levels of empathy. You're taking in a lot more
Speaker 1: than you know those who have higher levels of anxiety,
Speaker 1: and jobs such as nonprofit jobs that go and work
Speaker 1: in a really high stress area. UM some of law
Speaker 1: enforcements as well as emergency responders. All of those people
Speaker 1: they really need to be checked up on as well.
Speaker 1: We talked about nine one one operators. That's someone that
Speaker 1: doesn't get talked to a lot. You're talking about teachers
Speaker 1: who are coming in that you may not understand what's
Speaker 1: happening in their lives right now, but be aware, be
Speaker 1: aware of what's around you as well as again, listen
Speaker 1: to your own body. This is a really rough time.
Speaker 1: We're upbeat on the show. We are. But the good
Speaker 1: news is on top of that that it is being
Speaker 1: more accepted. There are things out there that you can
Speaker 1: do UM just going and beyond you know, just therapy,
Speaker 1: which is costly and very privileged UM abilities. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of organizations out there we talked about previously that
Speaker 1: help funding fund for therapy as well as there's organizations
Speaker 1: that work with young children who have lost family members
Speaker 1: or parents. You have organizations that work with vets, with
Speaker 1: the doggies, service dogs, oh my goodness, you'll service animals,
Speaker 1: bets with doggies. But I just saw a video about this.
Speaker 1: It was fantastic. UM. But all these things and there
Speaker 1: are resources out there. Get your good turn off your
Speaker 1: brain movies. Find those Find those times with your good
Speaker 1: friends when you're sitting and doing nothing inventing about whatever.
Speaker 1: You need to find the times to be with your
Speaker 1: family that if you have a good relationship, just get
Speaker 1: a good hug. It's nice to have a nice hug.
Speaker 1: I have some really good friends that are really good huggers,
Speaker 1: like I will personally like seek about feel like I
Speaker 1: need a hug right now. And that's just a few
Speaker 1: people who just think squitch you really well, but just
Speaker 1: stuff like that. There are things accessible and just being
Speaker 1: kind and to yourself into another I think that's important.
Speaker 1: I'm done now, be kind kind Um. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: this brings us to the end of our episode on
Speaker 1: mental positivity. Uh yeah. For anyone out there who's listening
Speaker 1: and this is something that resonates with them, I just
Speaker 1: know that you are not alone. You're not alone, Nope,
Speaker 1: and you are loved. You are um and we would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Oh yes, we would love
Speaker 1: to be loved. Yes we would. You can email us
Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast
Speaker 1: or on Instagram at Stuff. I've Never Told You. Thanks
Speaker 1: as always to our superproducer Andrew Howard. Andrew, we love YouTube,
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told
Speaker 1: You his prediction of Iheartradios How Stuff Works. For more
Speaker 1: podcast from iHeartRadio is the ihiar radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You do
Speaker 1: know mo