Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
Speaker 1: I've never told to your protection of I Heart Radio's
Speaker 1: how stuff works. Samantha and I have just gotten back
Speaker 1: from a very long trip, so long that I've lost
Speaker 1: my voice almost completely. Yes, between the yelling at our
Speaker 1: conference to the screaming at the rides that you made
Speaker 1: me go on, and like I forced you to do
Speaker 1: something you didn't want to do, I feel like a
Speaker 1: couple of those rides where I was tricked into I
Speaker 1: would never do such a thing. Yes, we were in
Speaker 1: No Orlando for podcast movement Spider trying to kill me
Speaker 1: the Spider. Yeah, I remember that whatever Harry Potter ride
Speaker 1: with Bidden Journey. You didn't tell me about that, and
Speaker 1: I got to ride the new Harry Potter ride. I did.
Speaker 1: She lift the glory And it's partly through the support
Speaker 1: of Samantha, because you're the one that told me, whatever
Speaker 1: is going to happen. You've got to write that right.
Speaker 1: Look after the many discussions and the fact that your
Speaker 1: face kind of fell when you thought you weren't going
Speaker 1: to be able to do it, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it has to be done, and it was done. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're talking about today is women
Speaker 1: supporting other women, which is something very important to both
Speaker 1: of us because women are and have been frequently conditioned
Speaker 1: to compete with other women for jobs for men, which
Speaker 1: is yes, very heteronormative. In this UM for success, I
Speaker 1: have witnessed example after example of this. I have been
Speaker 1: a part of this UM. A great example is calling
Speaker 1: a woman a horror slut when she sleeps with a man,
Speaker 1: but not judging the man in the same way. But
Speaker 1: more and more women are calling it for what it
Speaker 1: is BS and they're supporting other women right And we're
Speaker 1: so excited, So we wanted to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the positives of women supporting women UM again. We
Speaker 1: last week we went to Orlando for our little conference.
Speaker 1: It was a little it was huge. We had a
Speaker 1: lot of free T shirts now you are. I've been
Speaker 1: wearing mine pretty happily and it's been amazing. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that we got to do was be
Speaker 1: on a panel with our podcasts from our FAM podcast world.
Speaker 1: Is that what we would call it, don't network networks.
Speaker 1: I want to call it something else. I wanna be
Speaker 1: my own, my fam. This is my podcast fam UM
Speaker 1: ethnically ambiguous Anna and Sharene, And it was so fun
Speaker 1: to get to know these women that we kind of
Speaker 1: know from AFAR because they're based out of l A
Speaker 1: and we're in Atlanta, and so being able to like
Speaker 1: sit and talk with them into like actually bond has
Speaker 1: been phenomenal and just the idea of hearing where they're
Speaker 1: coming from and how hard they've worked in the same
Speaker 1: way with all of us where we come from. It's
Speaker 1: really beautiful just to be able to get together and
Speaker 1: to actually push each other and like support each other.
Speaker 1: And I think that it was important that we come
Speaker 1: back and had that as an actual discussion. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: the panel we did um was on something we talked
Speaker 1: about recently, podcaster imposter syndrome. And most of the people
Speaker 1: who were there were women, and it was early in
Speaker 1: the morning, so early. A couple of our a couple
Speaker 1: of our coworkers showed up as well, but it was
Speaker 1: it was so nice to just have that crowd and
Speaker 1: see women supporting other women. One of the people who
Speaker 1: showed up was Savers Laura Vocable, Yes, and she was
Speaker 1: there with us one percent of the time to support us.
Speaker 1: She was and she is not a morning person. She
Speaker 1: would not mind me telling you that she is not
Speaker 1: morning person. It meant a lot to me. She was fantastic.
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is women supporting other women,
Speaker 1: and there is a lot of research into this. Studies
Speaker 1: have shown that women who support other women find more
Speaker 1: success when it comes to business, and that women benefit
Speaker 1: more from collaboration as a posed to competition. Woman with
Speaker 1: a squad or a close enter circle of female friends
Speaker 1: are more likely to get executive positions that pay more money.
Speaker 1: Data has not shown the same to be true for men,
Speaker 1: and it's floked into it. It just hasn't shown that
Speaker 1: same relationship for correlation. Having other women to turn to,
Speaker 1: for example, when it comes to negotiating contracts, has been
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable for me. Yeah, me too. Not only did
Speaker 1: I have valuable advice from other women, but my contract
Speaker 1: was handled by a badass woman who was a friend
Speaker 1: of mine, who came to bat for me and really
Speaker 1: fought to make sure of my contract was as fair
Speaker 1: as it could be. So it's fantastic, oh absolutely, And
Speaker 1: for women, having this group of close friends is one
Speaker 1: way to combat the systems of bias that we face,
Speaker 1: whether it's through offering advice and mentorship, having each other's
Speaker 1: backs are offering words of encouragement. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: another testament to not filling alone having a support group
Speaker 1: though at all. Past host Christen and Caroline did an
Speaker 1: episode on the shine theory, which is in essence that
Speaker 1: women support other women shine UM. Women who don't support
Speaker 1: other women, who believe that women fundamentally can't get along
Speaker 1: and or there's only room for one at the top
Speaker 1: are frequently called queen bees. There are some mixed usages
Speaker 1: of that that phrase, but for for our purposes here.
Speaker 1: UM studies have found that women prefer male bosses at
Speaker 1: large when it comes to work situations, Specifically, since women
Speaker 1: are still underrepresented, there can sometimes be a sense that
Speaker 1: women have to compete for the quote, one spot on
Speaker 1: the board, or whatever it is. Some studies show that
Speaker 1: men generally are more biased against women in professional settings,
Speaker 1: but when it comes to a confident man and a
Speaker 1: confident woman, they have no preference. However, women never, repeat
Speaker 1: never chose the confident woman versus the confident man. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that shows something Yeah, not great. This also comes
Speaker 1: with the favoritism threat that women publicly helping other women
Speaker 1: will be seen as an act of favorite is m
Speaker 1: or bias. Right, And then you know, while we call
Speaker 1: this favoritism and biased, we have the boys club and
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be a negative idea. It's such
Speaker 1: a weird like connotation of being together and being fat
Speaker 1: pulling each other up. Yet when women do it, it's
Speaker 1: favoritism or sexist, not sexist, that's the word. That's the
Speaker 1: other way. It could be that way, actually, but you
Speaker 1: know that it is not such a negative connotation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And research across one thirty seven societies found that of
Speaker 1: female competitive acts were targeted towards other women, and the
Speaker 1: history of women hating other women, of undercutting and under
Speaker 1: miming other women is a long one, starting in Victorian times.
Speaker 1: While romantic relationships between women were celebrated, they were also
Speaker 1: viewed as short lived and superficial. Appropriation for a quote
Speaker 1: real marriage with a Man from the eighteen sixty eight
Speaker 1: book The Friendships of Women, written by a male minister,
Speaker 1: I was often struck both by the small number of
Speaker 1: recorded examples of the sentiment among women and by the
Speaker 1: commonness of the express bill that strong natural obstacles make
Speaker 1: friendship a comparatively feeble and rare experience with them, or
Speaker 1: criminal woman, the prostitute, and the normal woman, also written
Speaker 1: by a man quote. Due to women's latent antipathy for
Speaker 1: one another, trivial events give rise to fierce hatreds, and
Speaker 1: due to women's irascibility, these occasions lead quickly to insolence
Speaker 1: and assaults. Women of high social station do the same thing,
Speaker 1: but they're more refined. Forms of insults do not lead
Speaker 1: to law courts. Yeah, okay. At this time when women
Speaker 1: couldn't own property or much of anything really, or they
Speaker 1: couldn't have jobs. In most cases, competing for men that
Speaker 1: could provide was a matter of life and death. Or
Speaker 1: it could be sex workers were blamed for selling the
Speaker 1: representation of other women, and women in charge of those
Speaker 1: sex workers frequently cheated other women out of their wages.
Speaker 1: Researchers have put forth two main theories for why this
Speaker 1: rivalry exist. The first is evolutionary psychology a k. We
Speaker 1: have to protect our wombs, so indirect aggression is the
Speaker 1: way to go, or the feminist psychology theory basically that
Speaker 1: it's internalized misogyny uh internalized mail, gays society teaching women
Speaker 1: their value and identity, is wrapped up in their attractiveness
Speaker 1: to men, which in turn makes them compete against each
Speaker 1: other for men. I also read this huge, huge essay
Speaker 1: about the economics of sexual reality and it was too
Speaker 1: much future episode. But whoa, whoa, whoa. Another part of
Speaker 1: this is self competition. When you see a woman you
Speaker 1: think it's prettier, smarter, and or better than you, you're
Speaker 1: really competing against yourself, but you're projecting it onto her.
Speaker 1: Other researchers highlight that too. Other things that differentiate female
Speaker 1: competition from male competition is that women with a higher
Speaker 1: status or higher attractiveness have less of an incentive to
Speaker 1: invest in other women and enforced social isolation on a
Speaker 1: new competitor. That's the second reason ignoring a new attractive
Speaker 1: coworker at the office or something like that. And most
Speaker 1: of the studies around this competition between women does suggest
Speaker 1: that women frequently judge around looks. One study found that
Speaker 1: participants judged a woman in sexy attire much more harshly
Speaker 1: than a woman in a T shirt and jeans, and
Speaker 1: they were the same woman just the group's first blit up. Um.
Speaker 1: They largely ignored the woman in the T shirt and
Speaker 1: jeanes so you can be ignored or harshly judged. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also promiscuity. Of course, we can't forget that pretty
Speaker 1: harsh judges, right, of course. Uh, and this guy be
Speaker 1: wondering about things. Terms we use in our language like catfight,
Speaker 1: which is according to dictionary dot com, and intense fight
Speaker 1: our argument, especially between two women, and this was first
Speaker 1: used in eighteen fifty four. Or similarly, if you look
Speaker 1: at Caddie Worctionnary dot com defines that as a subtle
Speaker 1: hostility and an effort to hurt annoy are upset, particularly
Speaker 1: among women, and list bitchy as a semn him which
Speaker 1: is also pretty usually pretty directed towards women. For what
Speaker 1: it's worth, which is probably very little. Most actual cat
Speaker 1: fights are between unutered male cats, which is right. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you for supporting me. If you're curious why women
Speaker 1: seem to have this connection with cats, and you're probably
Speaker 1: curious why the podcast is going in this way, but
Speaker 1: this is just how my mind was sometimes, Uh, in
Speaker 1: our language, like because there's cougars and crazy cat Lady
Speaker 1: as well, there are a couple of things at play,
Speaker 1: and one is cats are perceived as being cunning, selfish,
Speaker 1: and the sounds they make less aggressive than dogs, which
Speaker 1: is the animal they are most usually compared to. On
Speaker 1: top of that, a paper out of Brown University by
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez Rodriguez, looking into Spanish and English metaphors for
Speaker 1: animals as women, came up with this bit in a
Speaker 1: section called women as Pets. Within the animal world, pets
Speaker 1: enjoy a privileged position. In fact, pets are not conceived
Speaker 1: of as beast or burden, nor are they killed for
Speaker 1: their meat or skin on the kind trade. Pets share
Speaker 1: the same roof as their owners, and their main function
Speaker 1: is to keep people company. This benevolent attitude towards pets
Speaker 1: find its way into the English language, for the very
Speaker 1: word pet is used as a term of endegrement. So
Speaker 1: that's the cat aside for this episode. I like that.
Speaker 1: Thank you for getting that information. I know nothing about cats. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's move on from cats. Uh. I did want to mention,
Speaker 1: of course, not like other girls. We've we touched on
Speaker 1: that a lot. Are people who say, and I had
Speaker 1: a friend who used to say this, even though I
Speaker 1: was a friend, I don't make friends with other women.
Speaker 1: And she would usually specify it was because they were dramatic,
Speaker 1: or they cause a lot of drama, right, are that too?
Speaker 1: Or they were too jealous of me? Or oh yeah,
Speaker 1: or that the guys. She gets alone better with guys
Speaker 1: because you know she has some interests as guys, she's
Speaker 1: not goally enough, right right, right, Yeah, we all probably
Speaker 1: have those those people in our lives. And um, I
Speaker 1: think you could look at pretty much any magazine cover
Speaker 1: for an example of our society perpetuating this idea that
Speaker 1: women do compete. We're all about cat fights, Like I
Speaker 1: feel every time I'm checking out of the store these days,
Speaker 1: I see something about Kate Middleton and Meg and Marco fighting,
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. Of course they can't like
Speaker 1: each other, how dare are they? Yeah, it's impossible, impossible. Well,
Speaker 1: we do have some examples of good relationships women supporting women,
Speaker 1: so it is actually possible. But first we have a
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. And yeah, we did want to share
Speaker 1: some some examples, some positive examples, starting with actress. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm one of the things that I love, and I
Speaker 1: remember the story with Jessica Chesting doing the mini Mini
Speaker 1: talks about wage gap in the celebrity slash Just an
Speaker 1: Actor World and the differentiation um. She actually had a
Speaker 1: conversed sation with Octavia Spencer during one of the women
Speaker 1: Breaking Barriers panel in which they had a really frank
Speaker 1: discussion about the wage gap when he came to gender,
Speaker 1: but Octavia had kind of correct her. There's a gender
Speaker 1: gap when it comes to wages, but there's also the
Speaker 1: um race gap. So even though Jessica make it paid less,
Speaker 1: Octavia got paid even less than her. And so as
Speaker 1: a way of showing solidarity, Jessica helped negotiate for their
Speaker 1: next movie a new salary for both of them, which
Speaker 1: was five times more than the original offer. Right, And
Speaker 1: that's kind of like one of those moments of like, yes, finally,
Speaker 1: let's let's have this moment of empowering each other by
Speaker 1: supporting each other for people who can't maybe can advocate
Speaker 1: for themselves. So when we had this conversation with other
Speaker 1: white women advocating for women of color, that's fantastic. Or
Speaker 1: for assist women to come out and advocate for those
Speaker 1: who are identifying as females or Nauti's accepted. I think
Speaker 1: it's such a big and powerful way to do things.
Speaker 1: And I just love that story as we Yes, here's
Speaker 1: one issue, but here's a deeper issue. But yeah, just
Speaker 1: empowering each other and fighting for each other, which is awesome. Yes.
Speaker 1: Another great example was the US Female the US Women
Speaker 1: gymnasts supporting each other during the Larry Nasca trial and
Speaker 1: just you know, tweeting support or being there and pretty
Speaker 1: much saying, you know, I, um, if you win the gold,
Speaker 1: I am so happy for you. Like it was. It
Speaker 1: was really it was a sad thing, but it was
Speaker 1: nice to see them on supporting each other, coming together
Speaker 1: as a real team on fighting this huge issue, which
Speaker 1: is fantastic. And then there's tennis. It's tennis, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think I've spoken I have. I've spoken about Serena
Speaker 1: Williams before when she had that argument with the ref
Speaker 1: and then having to come back and apologize, but then
Speaker 1: the most recent match with her at the Cincinnati Masters
Speaker 1: where she had to retire because she got a back injury. Um,
Speaker 1: the scene afterwhere Bianca and Jesscue and she are talking
Speaker 1: is such a great encouraging, encouraging support. Seen Bianca sitting
Speaker 1: there talking with her and supporting her and get just
Speaker 1: encouraging about obviously, what do you say. It's the right
Speaker 1: of Williams, who was just a badass all together. But
Speaker 1: she comes into like, hey, I'm so sorry this is happening,
Speaker 1: but thank you so much, you know, just the build up,
Speaker 1: even though their competitors like just truly being sportsmanlike and
Speaker 1: giving love to each other. Another thing that I found
Speaker 1: that I really liked, And this is from someone who
Speaker 1: is generally a little wary of social media. It takes
Speaker 1: a lot for me to get on there. Um, when
Speaker 1: om the Selim tweeted about being at a bar and
Speaker 1: receiving unwanted attention from some dude, a woman she didn't
Speaker 1: know came up to her and pretended to be her
Speaker 1: friend to get Amanda to clear out any did, and
Speaker 1: so many women responded to that tweet with similar stories
Speaker 1: of women supporting women. I love it just what they're
Speaker 1: being harassed on the streets and coming in and swooping
Speaker 1: in and walking with them to wherever next. I love
Speaker 1: those moments. I do too. And then they're politics, like
Speaker 1: supporting women running running for office, things like Emily's list. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe being too optimistic at the beginning of this, however,
Speaker 1: having moments of watching Warren and Hairs taking pictures with
Speaker 1: each other or standing up for each other, Gilly Brand
Speaker 1: splitting her tissue with Hairs during a debate, like stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and then even the Vogue photo alone, which
Speaker 1: has them all together in a room in such a
Speaker 1: strong manner and united, it makes me want to applaud.
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah. And then there was a conversation that
Speaker 1: happened in eighteen how it was really difficult for women
Speaker 1: to find their space in politics as they're trying to
Speaker 1: represents themselves because their voices seemingly are being drowned out.
Speaker 1: There are these different stories of how underwhelmed the female
Speaker 1: candidates were in getting support from their Democratic Party UM
Speaker 1: and many other running candidates had to create their own network,
Speaker 1: support through other women who are also campaigning, which is
Speaker 1: both disheartening and encouraging. I mean, there's hope, and we
Speaker 1: have to keep pushing forward, but the fact that they
Speaker 1: had to create their own network to have some people
Speaker 1: backing them, and and they were all like on different
Speaker 1: opposing seats and different levels, and yet through the campaigns
Speaker 1: or through UM whatever they were trying to do. I
Speaker 1: think there was a panel which brought a lot of
Speaker 1: women together to talk about how they wanted to be,
Speaker 1: how do they want to run? And they started like
Speaker 1: exchanging numbers and cars because they knew they needed each other,
Speaker 1: and like they created lifelong friendships essentially by supporting each
Speaker 1: other in this moment where no one else kind of
Speaker 1: understood how but that this difficult would be, how difficult
Speaker 1: this would be, especially right now. And then the people
Speaker 1: who are supposed supposed to support them, they're not doing it.
Speaker 1: But you know, as sad as that is, women uplifting women,
Speaker 1: it makes a huge difference. We've seen it. We've seen
Speaker 1: some good changes. Oh absolutely, And going back to what
Speaker 1: you said about boys clubs and some we're at the
Speaker 1: end of the episode, we're gonna get into this more
Speaker 1: about some advice I've seen is creating these spaces for
Speaker 1: women to make those connections and to help support each other,
Speaker 1: even like in companies and universities all over, and it's
Speaker 1: women taking the initiative and saying we need this, let's
Speaker 1: make it happen, and we can help other women. I
Speaker 1: love that. Another example we love is of a nice
Speaker 1: lunkat um she escaped female genital mutilation and went on
Speaker 1: to say, fifteen thousand girls in Kenya from the same
Speaker 1: procedure and helped change how it is viewed, even helping
Speaker 1: band mentioning the procedure in messi oral tradition. On top
Speaker 1: of that, she was integral and creating a ceremony that
Speaker 1: celebrates the transition into womanhood um with with singing and
Speaker 1: dancing and much more of a positive thing. And whatever
Speaker 1: you think about Taylor Swift uh and whether or not
Speaker 1: some of these things she's done are like legit or marketing,
Speaker 1: she has made a show of supporting other women were
Speaker 1: first getting in fights with a life of them, but
Speaker 1: then publicly apologizing, like with Nicki Minaj or Katie Perry.
Speaker 1: I gassed aloud when I was watching music video and
Speaker 1: Katie Perry s, did you really? Yeah, She's She's just hamburger,
Speaker 1: I know, And I was like, they're hut. You know.
Speaker 1: There was a lot and I think you're not on
Speaker 1: on social media, but there was a lot of like
Speaker 1: hents between them sending each other all the wrench and
Speaker 1: I think cookies were involved, which I would take cookies
Speaker 1: any day, which is an apology. And then you know,
Speaker 1: Adele yes like being so such a big fan of Beyonce,
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you not be though? Respect? Respect?
Speaker 1: But it is nice to see uh, And I like
Speaker 1: even in and Taylor supposed new songs. She says something about,
Speaker 1: like all you people on theirnet comparing, comparing all of us,
Speaker 1: we we figured it out and we all got crowns.
Speaker 1: Back up, back up, you have a crown, you have
Speaker 1: a ground? Do you have a crown? I wanted that
Speaker 1: ground from the party. And there was a body at
Speaker 1: a party were recently at just wearing a crown the
Speaker 1: entire time. Wonder you were jealous? But he he brought
Speaker 1: his own crown to be fair. He rocked it really well.
Speaker 1: He did. So now we know, always have a crown
Speaker 1: on your person in case. Yes, new new motto, UM
Speaker 1: and the meto era brought a lot of support for
Speaker 1: women with that. I believe her as a part of
Speaker 1: that as well, for many of the women who still
Speaker 1: had to fight to be believed. But but watching all
Speaker 1: these different women and even today I see it Um
Speaker 1: when different things are rising up in different issues or
Speaker 1: when different controversies have happened, I'm still using. I believe her,
Speaker 1: and I see that many women are the ones that's
Speaker 1: behind it. And it's a beautiful thing, even though sometimes
Speaker 1: it's said that it has to be birth from such
Speaker 1: a nasty, nasty or deal. Another example is volunteering as
Speaker 1: abortion escorts. And while I was researching this episode, I
Speaker 1: went down such a girl supporting girls rabbit hole and
Speaker 1: it was so beautiful and I teared up. Um. Recently,
Speaker 1: we were at the airport and a random woman came
Speaker 1: up and asked us if we were dancers or models
Speaker 1: because we were beautiful and had nice posture. And it
Speaker 1: was the best. It really was. It was me you
Speaker 1: and Lauren and having her come out out of nowhere
Speaker 1: because I first thought she was gonna just ask us
Speaker 1: a random question about right, and then she's like, are
Speaker 1: you all things? You have such a good posture, and
Speaker 1: I was like this is I was getting ready to leave,
Speaker 1: but thank you so very much. I love it. And
Speaker 1: it was so nice because it was so unexpected anyway,
Speaker 1: because I didn't look like I was ready to dance
Speaker 1: on like that. I'm like ready to go to sleep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Never underestimate the power of a genuine compliment that is
Speaker 1: not like looking to get something else out of it.
Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. I think it's nice if
Speaker 1: you see something that is nice. It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not gonna say at the time, but I
Speaker 1: know I've had many of moments when someone complimented my hair,
Speaker 1: complimented my outfit or whatever, and it's super also all
Speaker 1: thank you. Of course, I always ended awkwardly because I'm
Speaker 1: an awkward to person, but I genuinely remember it, and
Speaker 1: from then on I'm like, oh, that made me feel
Speaker 1: really nice. Yeah, And it's such a easy thing to do,
Speaker 1: easy way to really brighten someone. Actually, this week when
Speaker 1: we went to do the podcast, we did the panel
Speaker 1: and I came off and one of our listeners came
Speaker 1: up and said hello and and and was really encouraging,
Speaker 1: and I was like, then made me feel so good.
Speaker 1: Thank you because it was our first panel, and uh,
Speaker 1: I think it went really well. But I was nervous
Speaker 1: at first. I was shake We all were. But you
Speaker 1: were just noticeable because you had paper and had the paper.
Speaker 1: I was the nerd that came with the printed out
Speaker 1: doctor Well, you were moderating, so you had to remember
Speaker 1: the questions. The rest of us got off. Scott Easy
Speaker 1: just been like, we're just gonna answer you a question,
Speaker 1: blah blah, blah, but yeah, that really meant a lot
Speaker 1: to come up afterwards. We do also see this in
Speaker 1: our media other than like magazine coming rights, but like
Speaker 1: mean girls was one of the first things that came
Speaker 1: to mind for me. Um. But then there's also kind
Speaker 1: of the more negative side, things like Real Housewives. Right.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about like the travelinghood of sister
Speaker 1: or something. Thank you. I knew there was something to
Speaker 1: do with that, But the fact that they're actually friends
Speaker 1: in real life, I love that. I mean, like, I've
Speaker 1: never seen this movie. I had to get the premise,
Speaker 1: and I think it's beautiful, but I love that whole idea. Um.
Speaker 1: And for all of its faults, Sex in the City,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I loved about it. And
Speaker 1: I wanted my core group of friends to live together
Speaker 1: for the rest of our lives and talk about our
Speaker 1: bad sex lives or good sex lives hopefully yes, yes,
Speaker 1: any kind of alcohol to be honest. Um. But then then, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got the other ones such as Heathers. I want
Speaker 1: to go back the old school days where they all
Speaker 1: trying to kill each other. What have you ever seen Heathers? No,
Speaker 1: it's a good eighties classic Christians. Later, one on a
Speaker 1: writer way back when, and this is it's this click
Speaker 1: of girls named Heather and then one girl Veronica. I
Speaker 1: think it's her. It's one on his character and they're
Speaker 1: all very rich and very snobby people, and then they
Speaker 1: all end up like slowly trying to kill each other.
Speaker 1: But it turns out to be I won't throw I won't,
Speaker 1: I won't ruin the plot for you, quess you should watch.
Speaker 1: It's actually really fun. They all trying to kill each
Speaker 1: other so they can only be one Heather. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a queen bee as there's a queen of it, and
Speaker 1: so everybody's kind of like stacking to see who's the top.
Speaker 1: I remember, it's been a minute. But it's a good
Speaker 1: movie by eighties standards. I need to put that as
Speaker 1: a preface because then you're like, oh, hell, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of really big problems in this movie. By eight standards,
Speaker 1: it was really good. Watch it and I'll see I
Speaker 1: see a lot of people still dressing up at slow characters.
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah. Uh. When I was thinking about this episode,
Speaker 1: I was trying to think of examples in my life
Speaker 1: of this happening to me, of of women being like
Speaker 1: cruel to me or or me being cruel to women.
Speaker 1: And I feel like for me, people were mean as
Speaker 1: to me when I was in middle school and then
Speaker 1: early high school, and then in college I was I was.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was ever purposefully. I just had
Speaker 1: some like not like other girls, and I would kind
Speaker 1: of make fun of women I saw competing for male
Speaker 1: attention in a way that wasn't very kind. Um. That
Speaker 1: was like my freshman year of college. But I got
Speaker 1: out of it pretty quickly because that and that's the
Speaker 1: thing that we're all taught this way of life of
Speaker 1: like judging other women, and I did it, and that
Speaker 1: sometimes I still have to check myself and be like that,
Speaker 1: why are you thinking that this is unnecessary? You're not
Speaker 1: a judge or jury of any of these. Let people live.
Speaker 1: But it's so hard sometimes when it's ingraining you that
Speaker 1: you have to live by the standard, and the only
Speaker 1: way to compare and to see if you're living by
Speaker 1: that standard is to compare to the other people again,
Speaker 1: because it's your own projection of what you should be,
Speaker 1: and it's so absurd and it's very absolutely the patriarch
Speaker 1: to like taking us down, telling us we're trying to
Speaker 1: all fight for second place because we're never gonna be
Speaker 1: number one. That's the white man, right right, and so
Speaker 1: we're all trying to get the sick oft spot. So
Speaker 1: it's just seemingly it's such an ugly, ugly idea, but
Speaker 1: it's really hard to get past it. But progress is
Speaker 1: to be able to check yourself. Yea, that is ugly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that that's that's some really good advice to kind
Speaker 1: of a hey, why am I thinking this? What's really
Speaker 1: going on? And we have even more advice for you,
Speaker 1: but first we have one last quick break for work
Speaker 1: and more sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. There
Speaker 1: is a lot of write up right ups. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of right ups excuse me out there about
Speaker 1: women and how to support other women, especially in professional settings.
Speaker 1: So if you if this is something that's been on
Speaker 1: your mind or that you would like to work on
Speaker 1: the internet is there for you. But we do have
Speaker 1: some that we want to include. One is make making
Speaker 1: connections with other women a priority. And this is something
Speaker 1: that I have started doing, especially if I see like
Speaker 1: a woman in a in a conference setting or something like, oh,
Speaker 1: this woman is doing badass stuff. There aren't too many
Speaker 1: other women in here when you go talk to her, Right,
Speaker 1: I got to finally meet the ladies of stuff you
Speaker 1: miss in history class, Tracy and Holly, and they've become
Speaker 1: my favorite people's They're they're fantastic, they're hilarious, and they're
Speaker 1: just genuinely kind people. And it's way to meet those
Speaker 1: kinds of people. So, yeah, you gotta keep your eye
Speaker 1: out and be like, I know you're gonna be a
Speaker 1: valuable asset and I want to be a part of
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, And part of making things a priority,
Speaker 1: and this was a huge lesson for me, is making
Speaker 1: time for it and following up on it. Because it's
Speaker 1: easy to get somebody's business card and then just move on.
Speaker 1: But if you if you really want to follow up
Speaker 1: with somebody, then do that. Then do that. Be a
Speaker 1: mentor or a sponsor for other women. Um. I was
Speaker 1: a mentor in college and it was so so so rewarding, right,
Speaker 1: it really really was. So I I recommend that and
Speaker 1: being available for anybody who is new in your office
Speaker 1: or your profession, whatever might be, and like say, hey,
Speaker 1: if you ever want to sit down with some coffee
Speaker 1: and talk about things, I'm available. You're probably my mentor
Speaker 1: because I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Would
Speaker 1: you like to sit down with coffee and think about things? Okay?
Speaker 1: I would rather have about well, I know, but perhaps
Speaker 1: in most professional settings, start with coffee, okay. Um, recommend
Speaker 1: other women for jobs and amplify the voices of other
Speaker 1: women exactly. Search out women you admire, Consume things created
Speaker 1: by women, by things made by women. Yeah. We were
Speaker 1: recently at Dames and Dregs and there was an artist
Speaker 1: alley that was all women and my friend top she
Speaker 1: bought a lot of art. Yeah. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the things I liked about that festival. It's bringing out
Speaker 1: as many different women in different professions. We had different
Speaker 1: female DJs, which is fantastic. We had those who identified
Speaker 1: as women doing performances, which was even one more wonderful. Um.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of the breweries had their female
Speaker 1: employees create their own beers to to highlight their brewery
Speaker 1: as well as their skills. And I think it's fantastic
Speaker 1: to have something that you can actually just support women,
Speaker 1: um and support their craft. Um. Then there's also being
Speaker 1: a role model for girls and women, and some examples
Speaker 1: I saw of this particularly in the business sense. Sit
Speaker 1: in front of sent in front at meetings, speak up,
Speaker 1: encourage other women to speak up, Remind people where an
Speaker 1: idea came from. And this was Samantha's idea. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a big one. Awesome organizations that foster mentorship for
Speaker 1: women and girls and those who identifies as such, and
Speaker 1: just a few of those would be girls school. She
Speaker 1: should run girls who are at camp smart girls. And
Speaker 1: also to add the Trevor Project Listen and trans Women
Speaker 1: of Color Collective. I think it's better just to get
Speaker 1: a bigger, bigger lists and just to throw out and
Speaker 1: get highlight some of those good things that's going on, uh,
Speaker 1: and kind of going off of that, celebrating and highlighting
Speaker 1: the successes and accomplishments of other women. Women frequently don't
Speaker 1: get the credit they deserve. And if they voice that
Speaker 1: they think they might be accused bragging, they probably actually
Speaker 1: will be accuster bagging. There's there's science behind that, that's
Speaker 1: not just me saying that. Um, And I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm bragging all the time when I talk about stuff
Speaker 1: I've done. And there is even a quote in a
Speaker 1: newspaper somewhere of me saying how uncomfortable I was doing
Speaker 1: the interview because I felt like I was bragging. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: so it's pretty pervasive. So having someone kind of do
Speaker 1: it for you or help you celebrate or recognize those
Speaker 1: successes is great. If you find yourself labeling a woman
Speaker 1: a shrill, bossy, bitchy, again, check yourself, ask why, find
Speaker 1: specific example of them doing that if there is one,
Speaker 1: and ask yourself if you would feel the same way
Speaker 1: if it was a man that had done it right.
Speaker 1: Science shows that women not supporting other women can lead
Speaker 1: to negative health outcomes and absentee is um at work,
Speaker 1: So this is a pretty big deal. In the words
Speaker 1: of Metal and Albright, there is a special place in
Speaker 1: hell for women who don't help other women. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: activating so many articles about women who don't like women,
Speaker 1: which is what we were talking about earlier, or why
Speaker 1: women compete with women. It's pretty clear the level of
Speaker 1: self hatred there is for these types of women. It
Speaker 1: seems like it's almost like it's brainwashing for women. The
Speaker 1: game is competing again, like for second place behind men,
Speaker 1: so it's not that we will ever, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, oh, we don't even try to compete with men.
Speaker 1: We just got to compete with women, and that's the
Speaker 1: only way we can get ahead, which is an absurd
Speaker 1: idea that was from way back when. Yeah, and a
Speaker 1: lot of articles I read, um, and I know this
Speaker 1: is going to be controversial, bought up Hilly Clinton and
Speaker 1: how when she was first lady her approval rating was
Speaker 1: so high, and then when she tried running for president
Speaker 1: so um and things like that. And I have had
Speaker 1: female friends tell me that they dread working with female
Speaker 1: bosses because they've had terrible experiences with female bosses who
Speaker 1: treated women awfully. Right, Um, So that that makes my
Speaker 1: heart hurt. We should be helping each other, right, But
Speaker 1: I think it's just the same, Like I've had really
Speaker 1: bad malby. That's the sad part is that level of
Speaker 1: women they still are in the mind of I got
Speaker 1: here because of I went out over this other woman,
Speaker 1: and this is not always always the case, but I
Speaker 1: think that's the old school idea and it's still pretty prevalent, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: which has to be completely diminished. Yeah, And I I've
Speaker 1: also when I first got this job, I was the
Speaker 1: only woman in the department, and there was a weird
Speaker 1: sense of like pride about that, like Oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: the only one, and now I'm older and wiser, and
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I'm the department. But there is also
Speaker 1: kind of that thing feeling like you're quote special. Um. So,
Speaker 1: and I also just want to say here, I am very,
Speaker 1: very very competitive. This isn't against like competition at all,
Speaker 1: but it's for like healthy competition and also colever ration
Speaker 1: and lifting at people where they deserve to. Competition is
Speaker 1: not wrong. No, and again the healthy competition, as you
Speaker 1: talked about being sportsmanlike, is very very important. It is
Speaker 1: this detriment of like all or nothing type of mentality
Speaker 1: of I've got to be this completely and I must
Speaker 1: destroy in order. And I don't think that's everyone. No, no,
Speaker 1: absolutely don't. Um, but I think that's the idea that
Speaker 1: whether it's the patriarch saying you should be that way
Speaker 1: or whether it's women being taught this is the only
Speaker 1: way you know that is as a dangerous part. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there's good competition, and that's okay. We have plenty of
Speaker 1: competition when it comes to feminist podcast I love it, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and uh we do have some solid podcast to shout out.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's while we're here. Um, with that, we
Speaker 1: want to shout out to the different people in podcasts
Speaker 1: we adore because I think it's important to acknowledge others
Speaker 1: that have been here with us, or others who are
Speaker 1: continuing on good things and just being able to share. Hopefully.
Speaker 1: We did listeners of some other types of um women
Speaker 1: out there, other types of some other women out there
Speaker 1: doing their thing again ethnically ambiguous, which is fantastic, our
Speaker 1: own Anna Sharne. She they do some amazing shows and
Speaker 1: have some really great guests. Bectel Cast, which any you
Speaker 1: are a guest host on that talking about Marvel right
Speaker 1: the Avenger. See I need this, I didn't. I listened
Speaker 1: to you um of course Savor oh you know, oh
Speaker 1: you know Savor um unladylike, which is the former host
Speaker 1: Caroline and Kristen, and then of course our old host
Speaker 1: Emily who was with Bossed Up now and then Bridget
Speaker 1: wonderful Bridget who's working with Afro punk and she has
Speaker 1: some huge projects. I follow her on the twitters. She
Speaker 1: got some big stuff coming and love it. Um unpopular
Speaker 1: with our own ease female first ease. Stuff you missed
Speaker 1: in history class which I talked about Tracy and Holly
Speaker 1: are amazing. That's what she said. Is another podcast we
Speaker 1: listened to as well as I want to give a
Speaker 1: shout out. Um. When we released our podcaster Imposter Syndrome
Speaker 1: Women in the Podcasting World, gender gap, Um, we had
Speaker 1: why Blank Matters podcasts shout out to us like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're here, so we want to acknowledge you. Hi guys, thanks,
Speaker 1: thanks for liking us or at least commenting on our stuff.
Speaker 1: Hopefully that translates to it alike. Um. But there are
Speaker 1: so many women doing amazing stuff out there. And uh,
Speaker 1: I can say for from my own experience now, not always,
Speaker 1: but now I am very very fortunate, lucky to have
Speaker 1: a wonderful group of supporting women in my life. And
Speaker 1: I it's so so valuable. It is. And and I'm
Speaker 1: I've talked about how old I'm getting right now. I
Speaker 1: felt really old as I'm struggling on Mike. UM. But
Speaker 1: you know, as I'm approaching forties, it's coming, y'all, it's coming.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell you how soon. It's been amazing
Speaker 1: to look back at how I've collected amazing women in
Speaker 1: my life have supported me even getting here and having
Speaker 1: a voice or even going through the social work world
Speaker 1: to be able to acknowledge some of these ugliness and
Speaker 1: try to push forward with some of the goodness. I'm
Speaker 1: not one of those people who have ever been in relationships.
Speaker 1: That's never been a thing that I've been in. I
Speaker 1: probably have a total of three relationships and they didn't
Speaker 1: last very long. So I'm very independent. But being independent
Speaker 1: meant I've always had a family, and I chose to
Speaker 1: have a family, and it did a lot of it
Speaker 1: was mainly just strong females that I needed to not
Speaker 1: only push me in a way that challenged me, but
Speaker 1: also stopped me when it was obvious that I was
Speaker 1: going overboard, you know. And it's really nice to have
Speaker 1: that kind of balance, that kind of trust. And it's
Speaker 1: my family, you know. I don't know if you've seen
Speaker 1: the episodes, if you're just seeing the show Pose, and
Speaker 1: it's the f X Pose and it's a fantastic series
Speaker 1: with transgender women in the eighties, women of color, and
Speaker 1: how they create their own family after being ostracized um
Speaker 1: from the community, and how beautiful these women are they
Speaker 1: come together and just are But that's what we do.
Speaker 1: We create family from these from these levels. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what we've done, what I've done with these
Speaker 1: amazing group of girls. Like I do have my family,
Speaker 1: but these these women that I have in my life,
Speaker 1: they're my true family, the ones that I know will
Speaker 1: come to get me, come sit with me, come hug me.
Speaker 1: And it's a beautiful thing and it's so important. Like
Speaker 1: I can't emphasize how important it is to have people
Speaker 1: who understand you in a different manner. And I think
Speaker 1: for women as well as people who are identifying as women,
Speaker 1: having that female voice is fantastic. Absolutely, And I know
Speaker 1: a lot of listeners are written in and expressed that
Speaker 1: they don't have that and they really want that, and um,
Speaker 1: it's that's hard. And just know that it's taken us
Speaker 1: time to find that forties. I'm hitting forties, y'all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I know it's really difficult and it can feel
Speaker 1: like it's never gonna get any better, but just keep trying. Um.
Speaker 1: And there are certainly things that you learn about yourself
Speaker 1: too as you get older that maybe you had a
Speaker 1: friend at one time and then it became a toxic
Speaker 1: friendship as you got older. There are things like that happen. Um,
Speaker 1: But I really hope that you all find this that
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, and that you have examples of
Speaker 1: women supporting other women and that you can go and
Speaker 1: do that thing, and if you have, we would love
Speaker 1: to hear them from you. You can email us at
Speaker 1: STEPH Media, mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
Speaker 1: or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You's a
Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Ideas. How stuff works For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio is at the already app
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: H