Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Before we get started, we have a live
Speaker 1: show to announce. We will be at the National Gallery
Speaker 1: of our Washington for their n g A Nights programming.
Speaker 1: We'll be doing a live show there on September twelve.
Speaker 1: The program itself is running from six pm to nine pm.
Speaker 1: We're actually going to do our show twice that night.
Speaker 1: You do have to register for it, but the good
Speaker 1: news is registration is completely free. It's just a matter
Speaker 1: of signing up. Yep. You can come to our website,
Speaker 1: which is missed in History dot com and you can
Speaker 1: click on the page where it says live shows, or
Speaker 1: you can go to miss in history dot com slash shows.
Speaker 1: You will find a link for where you can register
Speaker 1: for tickets ahead of time. Again, this is a whole
Speaker 1: night of programming and we plan to do the same
Speaker 1: show two times so that more folks have the chance
Speaker 1: to see it. So we hope to see you in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. On September twelve. Welcome to Stuff You Missed
Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of I Heart Radios How
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly
Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Uh So, today what
Speaker 1: you're talking about a court case that was fairly famous
Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties, less known today. It is the
Speaker 1: Great English Convent case. The greatness that is referred to
Speaker 1: is definitely not in the sense of good. It's not
Speaker 1: really a very delightful case to hear about, but it
Speaker 1: speaks to the fervor of public interests surrounding it. Um
Speaker 1: It became really a sensational legal and cultural moment for
Speaker 1: Victorian England, and it was scandalous because it involved conflict
Speaker 1: within a convent, and the idea of hearing what went
Speaker 1: on behind the walls of such a place tucked away
Speaker 1: from the outside world was completely tantalizing to both the
Speaker 1: press and the public. And also that was because it
Speaker 1: came at a time when it fed an already growing
Speaker 1: anti Catholic movement in England. Additionally, it played on the
Speaker 1: shock of women being incredibly cruel to one another, and
Speaker 1: that was something that was even used by the plaintiff's
Speaker 1: legal team when speaking to the jury when this case
Speaker 1: went to trial. So there was an inherently salacious element
Speaker 1: to the proceedings as people eagerly waited for the juici
Speaker 1: or details of the case to emerge. One thing that
Speaker 1: will mention going in is that if you look up
Speaker 1: any documents on this, the names involved get spelled all
Speaker 1: manner of different ways. Um, the plaintiff is in most
Speaker 1: of the legal documents just referred to as Miss Saren,
Speaker 1: but she her name was either Susan or Suzanne depending
Speaker 1: on what you look at. Uh. Similarly, the primary defendant,
Speaker 1: Mrs Starr is also spelled star with two R, star
Speaker 1: with one R. There's also Mrs Kennedy involved, sometimes spelled
Speaker 1: with one end, sometimes with two And I want to
Speaker 1: be clear that in the same legal document these names
Speaker 1: will change spellings, so there's a lot of inconsistency about that.
Speaker 1: We're kind of going with the most commonly used ones.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk also about using their non religious names
Speaker 1: versus their names as nuns a little bit. We're going
Speaker 1: with the non religious names, just for clarity. Heads up. Also, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion and accusations of abuse and
Speaker 1: cruelty in the mix here. Those are sensitive things for you. Um,
Speaker 1: this might not be the episode for you. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: I was reading it, I was reminded of like mean
Speaker 1: girls but worse. Yeah, it's like a lot of fairly
Speaker 1: petty abuses, but they really accumulate in a way that
Speaker 1: is pretty upsetting and you could understand would be very trying.
Speaker 1: So Susan Saren was from a very devout Irish Roman
Speaker 1: Catholic family. She was the third daughter in her immediate family,
Speaker 1: although her parents didn't really want her to become a
Speaker 1: nun her there other two daughters her sisters already were,
Speaker 1: but she really felt called to this. She finally convinced
Speaker 1: her family that it was the only life for her,
Speaker 1: and then visited a number of convents to try to
Speaker 1: find the right fit. In eighteen fifty one, she became
Speaker 1: a candidate in a Dublin to Ireland Sisters of Mercy Convent,
Speaker 1: and then she went from candidate to novice on August five,
Speaker 1: eight fifty one, taking the name Sister Mary Scholastica Joseph
Speaker 1: and taking her vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, as
Speaker 1: well as service to the poor, the sick and the ignorant.
Speaker 1: And during the time that Sarin joined the convent, so
Speaker 1: did two other women, not at the exact same time,
Speaker 1: but all within a few months of one another. Uh
Speaker 1: that's Mrs Starr, whose religious name was Sister Mary Joseph
Speaker 1: and Mrs Kennedy, whose religious name was Sister Mary Magdalene.
Speaker 1: Both of those women had been married before they joined
Speaker 1: the convent. That is why they're missus. For the purposes
Speaker 1: of simplicity, we are going to stick to using legal
Speaker 1: names rather than their religious names, as that is was
Speaker 1: primarily used in all of the accounts of the court case,
Speaker 1: which is really what we're focusing on today. So by
Speaker 1: Sarren's own account, these three sisters were very close. She
Speaker 1: would later testify, quote, we were all three thrown very
Speaker 1: much into each other's society. I became very intimate with
Speaker 1: Mrs st Are and attached to her, and she to me.
Speaker 1: We were associated in the work of education. I was
Speaker 1: equally attached to Mrs Kennedy, and I should point out
Speaker 1: to that even in different publications of these accounts, this
Speaker 1: was part of her testimony at trial, some of that
Speaker 1: phrasing will shift a little bit because basically the court
Speaker 1: stenographers were taking shorthand and then uh writing things out
Speaker 1: longhand afterwards, and so sometimes the sentence structure is a
Speaker 1: little different. If you ever see another version of this
Speaker 1: anything that we're quoting today, you might see slight variations
Speaker 1: in how a sentence is worded just af y i uh.
Speaker 1: And after a time, Mrs Starr was appointed Mother Superior
Speaker 1: of a convent in Yorkshire, England, and at that time
Speaker 1: this is sometime around eight or eighteen fifty six, Mrs
Speaker 1: Starr asked Saren to join her at this new convent,
Speaker 1: which Susan Sarren and her family agreed to, with the
Speaker 1: understanding that if she was unhappy there in England she
Speaker 1: could return to her old convent in Dublin. So initially
Speaker 1: things seemed to go well, but then in eighteen sixty five,
Speaker 1: Miss Sarren was expelled from her community and absolved of
Speaker 1: all our vows, and this was against her will. Four
Speaker 1: years later, in February eighteen sixty nine, Miss Susan Sarn
Speaker 1: filed suit against the Mother Superior of Sisters of Mercy,
Speaker 1: Mrs Starr, and her assistant Mrs Kennedy, who was the
Speaker 1: convent sister in authority. You'll see her listed as Sister
Speaker 1: in authority or superior assistant. Sometimes it's the wording comes
Speaker 1: out different. Uh. Soren accused Star of abuse and of
Speaker 1: conspiring with her colleagues to force Miss Saren to leave
Speaker 1: the convent. She also accused them of falsifying evidence which
Speaker 1: was presented to a church bishop with the intent to
Speaker 1: have her expelled from the order and to address damages
Speaker 1: to reputation and character, because after she was expelled from
Speaker 1: this life, she wasn't really prepared for another vocation uh
Speaker 1: and she was shamed. She felt like she couldn't go
Speaker 1: into a lot of churches. So Miss Sarren was suing
Speaker 1: for five thousand pounds. Proceedings began on February third, eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty nine. Solicitor General John Duke Coleridge was the head
Speaker 1: of the plaintiff legal team, assisted by Mr Digby Seymour
Speaker 1: and a Mr Wills. Henry Hawkins, George Mellish and Charles
Speaker 1: Russell made up the defenses team of solicitors. The case
Speaker 1: was presided over by the Lord Chief Justice, Sir Alexander Cockburn,
Speaker 1: and the charges as outlined before the court on February third,
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine, were noted by the Court stenographer as
Speaker 1: follows quote. This was an action brought by a professed
Speaker 1: sister of the Order of Mercy against the Mother Superior
Speaker 1: and a professed sister of the same Order in the
Speaker 1: Convent at Hull to recover damages for assault and conspiracy
Speaker 1: to drive her from the convent and have her expelled
Speaker 1: from the Order. The declaration stated that the defendants, on
Speaker 1: diverse occasions, assaulted and beat the plaintiff, and they took
Speaker 1: her clothes in property from her and imprisoned her for
Speaker 1: a long time, whereby she was rendered sick and ill
Speaker 1: and greatly distressed in body and mind. The case, as
Speaker 1: it was laid before the court that day went on
Speaker 1: to include a trover that's a legal action to recover
Speaker 1: the value of property that was discarded by another person.
Speaker 1: This was going to cover a watch, some clothing, books
Speaker 1: and papers. The accusation on the part of the plaintiff
Speaker 1: went on to state that Miss Sarn was legally entitled
Speaker 1: to the basic necessities of life, including food, clothing, and shelter,
Speaker 1: as well as the right to attend services in the
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic Church as a member of the Order, and
Speaker 1: that the defendants had deprived her of these rights. Soren
Speaker 1: also charged Star with libel, saying that the Mother Superior
Speaker 1: told Dr Robert Cornthwaite, the Bishop of Beverly, that Soren
Speaker 1: had complained about her boots clothing and food, was late
Speaker 1: in her work eight during hours we're doing so, was prohibited,
Speaker 1: spoke privately with a priest, was contradictory and disobedient, and
Speaker 1: had illicit conversations with outsiders. The defendants in this case
Speaker 1: actually paid the trover for the lost items at the outset,
Speaker 1: but then pled not guilty to all other charges. When
Speaker 1: Color had stepped up to make opening statements, he said
Speaker 1: to the jury, quote, you will have gathered from the
Speaker 1: opening of the pleadings by my learned friend Mr. Wills,
Speaker 1: that the case which I have to bring to your
Speaker 1: attention is one a good deal out of the common way,
Speaker 1: and requiring more than a common amount of your watchfulness
Speaker 1: and patience. The facts of it are strange and painful.
Speaker 1: They are strange and painful as a revelation of human nature.
Speaker 1: They are more strange and painful as a revelation of
Speaker 1: female nature. They are most strange and painful of all,
Speaker 1: as a revelation of conventual female nature, showing what women
Speaker 1: are capable of when they shut themselves up from their
Speaker 1: kind and do violence to the instincts of their nature,
Speaker 1: and what mean and petty cruelty they can wreak upon
Speaker 1: sister women in the name of the God of Love,
Speaker 1: and in an effort to perhaps temper the possibility of
Speaker 1: being called into question as attacking the Catholic Church, Coleridge
Speaker 1: made a point to mention repeatedly that both parties were
Speaker 1: of the same denomination. However, of course he was vilifying
Speaker 1: convents and thus the Catholic Church in the process, and
Speaker 1: women also women for sure. I mean, that's a big
Speaker 1: part of his case, is that like, if you lock
Speaker 1: women up together, they'll just become animals. It's really quite terrible. Uh.
Speaker 1: He did also urge the jury to not let their
Speaker 1: bias regarding Catholics enter into their assessment of the matters
Speaker 1: at hand. This case stretched on for three weeks, and
Speaker 1: throughout it the public just leaned in to hear more.
Speaker 1: The courtroom was full every single day of testimony, with
Speaker 1: both general public and attendance as well as a significant
Speaker 1: number of clergy. The case was so highly publicized and
Speaker 1: was seen as unprecedented, which also drew lawyers not involved
Speaker 1: in the proceedings to attend as spectators. And coming up,
Speaker 1: we will dig into the story of how Mss Saren's
Speaker 1: time in the convent really devolved uh, and how that
Speaker 1: was related in the courtroom. But first, let's take a
Speaker 1: quick sponsor break. There was a sketch made for Vanity
Speaker 1: Fair at the time of the trial of Mrs Starr
Speaker 1: the Mother Superior, by the artist Carlo Pellegrini. I would
Speaker 1: actually love to do an episode on him. At some
Speaker 1: point he signed his work ape that was his his
Speaker 1: sketch name. And it looks almost like it could be
Speaker 1: the work of previous podcast subject Charles Adams, as it
Speaker 1: is rather cartoonish and the style feels very similar in
Speaker 1: its Star looks both pious and guilty at the same time.
Speaker 1: Her hands are clasped on the ledge in front of her,
Speaker 1: but she is looking to the side with an expression
Speaker 1: that characterizes her as really sort of sinister or sneaky.
Speaker 1: The plaintiffs lawyers relate the early history of Saorence time
Speaker 1: as a nun and that she had a year's long
Speaker 1: relationship with Star without any apparent trouble. Things just changed
Speaker 1: abruptly in eight teens ext one, at the time Starr
Speaker 1: started questioning Sarin about what she had discussed with her
Speaker 1: priest during confession. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that
Speaker 1: she wouldn't want to talk about that, and she took
Speaker 1: this line of questioning as an insult and she refused
Speaker 1: to answer, and her testimony, Saren stated, quote, I thought
Speaker 1: it would be a breach of honor and contrary to
Speaker 1: every regulation. And she continued to refuse to share this
Speaker 1: information despite being asked repeatedly about it. And from that
Speaker 1: point things really turned unpleasant very quickly. Yeah, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about it in a little while. That Mrs Starr never
Speaker 1: is very clear in her testimony that she wasn't saying
Speaker 1: that she thought anything untoward was happening between the two
Speaker 1: of them, but she just felt uneasy about it. And
Speaker 1: that's actually the caption of the the that sketch we
Speaker 1: just talked about, was that she it's something along the
Speaker 1: lines that she had an uneasy feeling. And she alleged
Speaker 1: that she asked all of the other sisters about their
Speaker 1: confessions and that they always share them with her, which
Speaker 1: becomes a strange whole other things. She was apparently very
Speaker 1: controlling woman. The case against Mrs Starr and her colleague
Speaker 1: and how they punished Miss Saren quickly assembled into a
Speaker 1: picture of great cruelty. And I do want to point out.
Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot. We will continue to
Speaker 1: talk a lot as well in this episode about the
Speaker 1: bias against the Catholic Church. During this time, the plaintiffs
Speaker 1: legal team was very clearly playing on this, so much
Speaker 1: so that there were even times when the magistrate would
Speaker 1: break in and be like, I think you're over dramatizing
Speaker 1: this or mischaracterizing this. Um so they really are trying
Speaker 1: to like paint these two women is just super villains.
Speaker 1: But over the course of Sarren's life with Star as
Speaker 1: her mother's superior after this this incident began where she
Speaker 1: would not tell her her confession. The plaintiff claimed that
Speaker 1: she was treated far more cruelly than any of the
Speaker 1: other sisters in the convent. She was given more and
Speaker 1: more difficult chores than others. This was on top of
Speaker 1: the fact that it has already mentioned in a lot
Speaker 1: of letters establishinging before any of this happened, that she
Speaker 1: was not a physically strong person to begin with. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then the punishments for her various infractions as determined
Speaker 1: by Mrs Starr. Basically she would say, you are a liar.
Speaker 1: There was no recourse or like way too to discuss
Speaker 1: or disprove that. Uh. So her punishments that she got
Speaker 1: for any of these were incredibly harsh. So some of
Speaker 1: the things that that Mssarin reported her portions were reduced
Speaker 1: as a punishment. When the Mother Superior accused her of
Speaker 1: sneaking or stealing food, the food she was fed tasted
Speaker 1: off and might have been rancid. She was given foods
Speaker 1: that she was known to dislike, particularly mutton. Every single
Speaker 1: day when it was determined that she wasn't cleaning to
Speaker 1: the standards of the Mother Superior, she was made to
Speaker 1: pin a dirty duster onto her head and wear it
Speaker 1: at meals and during time in the community room. That's
Speaker 1: one of the things that the magistrate and the Solicitor
Speaker 1: General have a big back and forth about, was like
Speaker 1: was this a dirty dust? Had it been used on
Speaker 1: something wet? Was it extra disgusting? Uh And they have
Speaker 1: a big discussion about it. In the court proceedings if
Speaker 1: you ever want to go read them, it's basically two
Speaker 1: men bickering over just how dirty a duster was. The
Speaker 1: boots that were given to Miss Saren for her youth
Speaker 1: had holes in them, and if she complained about this,
Speaker 1: she was deemed to be disobedient. According to her testimony,
Speaker 1: her room was watched at all hours uh and a
Speaker 1: thread was placed on the door knobs so that she
Speaker 1: couldn't leave without detection. This is also written up in
Speaker 1: a couple of different ways. One was that like there
Speaker 1: was essentially a thing on her door knob that she
Speaker 1: couldn't turn the door now without it falling. There is
Speaker 1: another that suggests later on, when things really go quite poorly,
Speaker 1: that there was actually a string tied from her door
Speaker 1: knob to the bedpost of another sister, so that if
Speaker 1: she opened the door, that person would get up and
Speaker 1: know that they needed to follow her around. Mrs Star
Speaker 1: would simultaneously right to the bishop that something had to
Speaker 1: be done to get this in silent and problematic Miss
Speaker 1: Sarn out of the convent, while also writing letters at
Speaker 1: the same time to her family saying that she could
Speaker 1: not leave. Yeah, and that's well documented. That's not like
Speaker 1: just an accusation. Those letters existed and were brought up
Speaker 1: during the case that she was writing over and over
Speaker 1: like we have to do something to get rid of
Speaker 1: this woman. In the meantime, her parents we're writing and saying,
Speaker 1: can we please have her back in Dublin and her going, Oh,
Speaker 1: there's no way she could possibly go back. Similarly, Mrs
Speaker 1: Starr used her influence to smear Miss Sarren's reputation within
Speaker 1: the church to other convents that she might have moved
Speaker 1: to and effectively ensured that way that she was not
Speaker 1: approved for transfer there, and then she would use those
Speaker 1: failures of those appointments that didn't come through as evidence
Speaker 1: against her character. In the four years between eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: one and eighteen sixty five, all of this conflict played
Speaker 1: out and more, with Sarin never living up to Star's
Speaker 1: expectations and always being punished. During that time, Susan Sarn's
Speaker 1: mother tried to advocate on her daughter's behalf. She wrote
Speaker 1: to church officials that the archbishop and Dublin had approved
Speaker 1: a return to her old convent, but Mrs Starr refused,
Speaker 1: saying that once she moved to England, Miss Sarren was
Speaker 1: no longer under the jurisdiction of Dublin church officials. Even
Speaker 1: when word of Sarin's father being gravely ill was sent
Speaker 1: on to the convent, Mrs Starr did not relay that
Speaker 1: information to his daughter. Yeah, again, that's all stuff that
Speaker 1: is substantiated in kind of the letter record that was
Speaker 1: brought up during the case. And at one point Miss
Speaker 1: Sarin wrote to her uncle, who was also a priest,
Speaker 1: and she mentioned him the Mother Superior had said that
Speaker 1: she was frustrated with her mother's letters and that there
Speaker 1: had also been some miscommunication or confusion about some of
Speaker 1: her behavior at the convent, and Susan Sarin framed all
Speaker 1: of this in a fairly positive way. She kind of
Speaker 1: sets it up like, I know, the Mother Superior doesn't
Speaker 1: mean to make these mistakes kind of thing. She suggests
Speaker 1: she's not unhappy at all as a nun, but she
Speaker 1: was just really unsettled there at her current convent, and
Speaker 1: that she would like to move and that she was
Speaker 1: sure that things would write themselves if she could. That
Speaker 1: letter never made it out of the convent, though Starr
Speaker 1: kept it from being sent and wrote her own letter
Speaker 1: to Sarn's uncle, who was the Reverend T. Matthews. She
Speaker 1: urged him to find another appointment for Miss Saren and
Speaker 1: told him that she had committed quote the most grave offenses,
Speaker 1: stating quote I fear we shall be obliged to seek
Speaker 1: to have her released from the obligation of her vows,
Speaker 1: which are no longer to her an occasion of merit
Speaker 1: but an occasion of sin, and the Reverend Matthews wrote
Speaker 1: back that he knew he couldn't pre judge the situation,
Speaker 1: but that this all seemed really, really odd to him,
Speaker 1: since his niece had been such an exemplary nun throughout
Speaker 1: her time since she took her vows, and so much
Speaker 1: so that Mother Superior had in fact asked her to
Speaker 1: move to England along with herself, and he suggested that
Speaker 1: if they would just wait until after the busy season,
Speaker 1: like once Easter was passed, then they could talk about
Speaker 1: doing something and then he would have time to travel
Speaker 1: to England and investigate the matter himself. And the Mother
Speaker 1: Superior Mrs Starr wrote the Miss Sarren had to be
Speaker 1: removed before Easter. In the meantime, Susan Sarren's mother and
Speaker 1: brother had visited the convent and were admitted only after
Speaker 1: having been turned away first. They had a brief visit
Speaker 1: in which Miss Sarren assured them that everything was well,
Speaker 1: although she was weeping and she was clearly in distress.
Speaker 1: Not long after that visit, Sarin wrote to the bishop
Speaker 1: and got a reply. Those two letters weren't available at
Speaker 1: the time of the trial. Though this communication incensed Mrs Starr,
Speaker 1: and she made Miss Sarren confess publicly, including a written
Speaker 1: statement that she had written to her uncle without permission.
Speaker 1: She couldn't make her confess to having communicated with the
Speaker 1: bishop because that was her right as a nun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was what really made her angry. It was kind
Speaker 1: of like you went over my head that she made
Speaker 1: her confess to other letter, writing that that was not
Speaker 1: apparently okay without permission. In August four, eighteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: Mrs Starr wrote a letter to the Bishop herself to
Speaker 1: convey her chagrin, writing with emphasis that quote, such intercourse
Speaker 1: with externs for such purpose is a violation of a
Speaker 1: most essential point of religious life. So as she was
Speaker 1: saying was that she felt that since Sarin had communicated
Speaker 1: with her uncle with the intent that he would help
Speaker 1: her move to a different convent, that she had sinned
Speaker 1: gravely and that she should quote be released from her
Speaker 1: vows and be dismissed from the community. From that summer
Speaker 1: on Star started a whole new series of punishments. The
Speaker 1: Mother Superior told Sarren she could only write home once
Speaker 1: a year. The letters she received, including those from her father,
Speaker 1: who continued to be unwell, were heavily censored and then
Speaker 1: destroyed after she read them once with a witness present.
Speaker 1: She wasn't allowed any communication with her two sisters or
Speaker 1: her brother, who were also clergy. Yeah. The reason that
Speaker 1: that Mrs Starr gave all of that censorship was that
Speaker 1: she felt that in some of the letters the family
Speaker 1: had either exaggerated or lied, and that she thought that
Speaker 1: was sinful, so she had struck it out so that Sarin,
Speaker 1: who was already in her view ms could not read
Speaker 1: more sinful things. Um. And that was also why they
Speaker 1: destroyed the letters. It's a bit much, um. And as
Speaker 1: all of this was escalating at the convent, the Bishop,
Speaker 1: Robert Corinthwaite, had been in contact with miss Oren's uncle, who,
Speaker 1: as you recall, was also a priest, and so the
Speaker 1: bishop arranged to visit the convent and investigate everything as
Speaker 1: quickly as he could, and he arrived in November of
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two. He was already like in the habit
Speaker 1: of making periodic visits to all convents, so it was
Speaker 1: not odd for him to have shown up there. It
Speaker 1: wasn't only for this purpose, but he was there in November.
Speaker 1: He reassured miss Saren after investigating, that he thought she
Speaker 1: had done nothing wrong and that he would see that
Speaker 1: she would be treated more kindly and that she could
Speaker 1: come directly to him with any complaints and not complain
Speaker 1: to anyone else within the Higher Key. But after he left,
Speaker 1: matters continued exactly as they had before, except they actually
Speaker 1: got worse. Star created a whole new list of rules
Speaker 1: that's Aren't had to live by. She wasn't allowed to
Speaker 1: speak with anyone outside the convent. If a visitor came
Speaker 1: and addressed a question to her, she was required to
Speaker 1: motion them to someone else. She had to submit a
Speaker 1: written record of her faults every month, and her workload
Speaker 1: was increased. When her brother died rather suddenly, they kept
Speaker 1: the news from her for months. She was told long
Speaker 1: after the fact, and then was forbidden from taking any
Speaker 1: time to grieve. And all of this seemed to really
Speaker 1: take a toll significantly on miss Oren's mental state, and
Speaker 1: in a lengthy letter that she wrote to Mrs Starr
Speaker 1: during a retreat, her writing takes on a very unsettling
Speaker 1: tone and it really starts to exhibit the language of
Speaker 1: someone who has been systematically abused and has come to
Speaker 1: believe that what their abuser is telling them is in
Speaker 1: fact the truth. There is one particular passage in which
Speaker 1: she describes what to most ears would sound like an
Speaker 1: exceedingly minor transgression of folding up a letter that she
Speaker 1: had been writing before a senior sister had instructed her
Speaker 1: to do so. And then after talking about this, she
Speaker 1: writes this rather heartbreaking to me line of I am
Speaker 1: always I believe to be doing things wrong. And then
Speaker 1: she also goes on in that same letter, which is
Speaker 1: quite lengthy, to describe a recent confession in which she
Speaker 1: was troubled that the priest didn't seem to understand how
Speaker 1: sinful she was, and she wrote, quote, I really tried
Speaker 1: to make him think me as bad as I did myself.
Speaker 1: Sarn's brother, who was a priest, visited and this visit
Speaker 1: left him unsettled. After being allowed less than fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: with his sister and seeing her looking and behaving unlike herself,
Speaker 1: he wrote to the bishop, who questioned Mrs Starr on
Speaker 1: the matter. She replied that quote, the presence of Sister
Speaker 1: Scholastica amongst us is a very heavy cross. She is
Speaker 1: an enemy living in our mid And we're going to
Speaker 1: continue to talk about the last months of Miss Sarn's
Speaker 1: time at the Convent in just a minute, but first
Speaker 1: we'll take a break from all of this rather sad
Speaker 1: and disturbing tale and have a moment of thanks for
Speaker 1: one of the sponsors that keeps his show going. In
Speaker 1: April of eighteen sixty five, Mrs Starr began a campaign
Speaker 1: with the Bishop regarding the quote problem of Miss Saren.
Speaker 1: She asked the Bishop to appoint an investigative committee with
Speaker 1: the intent that Sarin would ultimately be dismissed, and over
Speaker 1: the course of numerous letters, the Mother Superior made Miss
Speaker 1: Sarn out to be a sort of poison on the convent,
Speaker 1: ruining virtually everything about their otherwise harmonious life, and making
Speaker 1: everyone anxious. This is according to Mother Superior, and she
Speaker 1: threatened to resign, writing quote, I do not possess the
Speaker 1: virtue and talent to govern in trying circumstances. It is
Speaker 1: a fault of character in me which time has rather
Speaker 1: increased rather than lessened, that I take things too much
Speaker 1: to heart and am too solicitous about those who are
Speaker 1: under my care. The Bishop replied on April sixty five
Speaker 1: that it was not possible for him to accept Mrs
Speaker 1: Starr's resignation. He encouraged her to have faith in God.
Speaker 1: He stated that if it truly was a case where
Speaker 1: the Mother Superior or the sister must go, that the
Speaker 1: sister should be the one to leave. He had never
Speaker 1: seen the problem with Sister Scholastica, but he couldn't let
Speaker 1: one of his convents go without a leader. And stars
Speaker 1: follow up letter after he says no, no, you can't quit, uh,
Speaker 1: kind of brings up the same idea that she Mother
Speaker 1: Superior will leave, and then Miss Sarren doesn't even need
Speaker 1: to know that she was the cause, and that all
Speaker 1: sounds sort of benevolent. But then the language quickly shifts
Speaker 1: to outlining the many alleged sins that the younger Nune
Speaker 1: has committed, many of them really really minor infractions. But
Speaker 1: then in particular she starts accusing Miss Sarin of theft,
Speaker 1: and while no one has ever caught her, because apparently
Speaker 1: she was so sly, several different people did suspect her,
Speaker 1: which Mrs Starr sort of holds up in the letter
Speaker 1: is nearly as good as real evidence says, where I
Speaker 1: beg you to keep in mind that Mrs Starr's mother
Speaker 1: Superior was very influential, so it seemed like most of
Speaker 1: the other nuns went along with whatever she said. In
Speaker 1: such matters. Starr even accused Sarin of stealing food from
Speaker 1: the children who came to the convent for school, that
Speaker 1: she was stealing their dinners, although none of the children
Speaker 1: or their parents ever reported such a thing. There's no
Speaker 1: record of any kind of complaint along those lines. In
Speaker 1: order to investigate this possibility of theft, Sarn was forced
Speaker 1: to undress in front of Star and her assistance in
Speaker 1: order to see if she was concealing stolen food or
Speaker 1: other items. This was done twice, once in May of
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three and another time in December of eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty five. In each case, there was no evidence of
Speaker 1: any misappropriated goods or food, but the experiences were humiliating.
Speaker 1: And this this was not something she alleged like. This
Speaker 1: was acknowledged, Yes, this absolutely happened, uh and was defended
Speaker 1: as as the only way they were ever going to
Speaker 1: know for certain if she was a thief, and they
Speaker 1: the plaintiffs legal team makes the case that if they
Speaker 1: had found even a crumb, if they had been able
Speaker 1: to find essentially a molecule of a thing, they would
Speaker 1: have reported it because that would have been their evidence.
Speaker 1: But they never found anything. Uh. The Bishop finally acquiesced
Speaker 1: after all of this discussion two Star's request, and a
Speaker 1: committee was assembled to review the case, and ultimately Miss
Speaker 1: Sarren was expelled from the community. The evidence in the
Speaker 1: matter was given to the bishop, but Miss Sarren and
Speaker 1: her uncle who represented her before the committee, were not
Speaker 1: given access to any of it, and it was unclear
Speaker 1: even what the many crimes that she was accused of were.
Speaker 1: They did not have a list of what she was
Speaker 1: being accused of to work from or defend against. It
Speaker 1: was really, in the words of her uncle, I think
Speaker 1: he called it something like a travesty. And when the
Speaker 1: court case went to trial, no copy of that evidence
Speaker 1: that allegedly went before the committee could be obtained, and
Speaker 1: the offenses that were allegedly addressed in that missing evidence
Speaker 1: didn't even have anything to do with the alleged theft,
Speaker 1: which had actually been the issue that finally drove the
Speaker 1: bishop to action. According to the Solicitor General, who was
Speaker 1: representing Sarn her legal battle. These were the same sorts
Speaker 1: of petty charges that Starr had been trotting out for
Speaker 1: some time. Sarren had been disobedient, that she had written
Speaker 1: letters without permission, that she had eaten buttered toast, and
Speaker 1: that she had been eating cake. During the trial, those
Speaker 1: last two were met with some laughter in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: Four fits of the bishop's committee had to vote in
Speaker 1: favor of the nun's innocence for the terms of the
Speaker 1: church's committee assignment. That didn't happen, though, and she was expelled.
Speaker 1: Miss Saren was unwilling to leave the convent though. While
Speaker 1: she had been unhappy with her treatment there, she did
Speaker 1: not want to leave what she believed was her calling,
Speaker 1: and to drive her out, Mrs Starr confined her to
Speaker 1: her room. Her fire was taken away. This was in winter,
Speaker 1: she could not have soaper water. She was only given
Speaker 1: leftover food from the plates of other sisters after meals
Speaker 1: were concluded, and when she refused to change from her
Speaker 1: religious garments to regular clothes, she was eventually stripped of
Speaker 1: her habit while she slept, so she had no choice
Speaker 1: but to change into the provided civilian where and finally,
Speaker 1: after this dragging on for some time, Susan Sarn had
Speaker 1: had enough. She became quite ill and her spirit was broken,
Speaker 1: and so she wrote to her brother, who immediately came
Speaker 1: to take her away from the convent. During the testimony,
Speaker 1: Sarren's uncle, father Matthews, testified that while things had started
Speaker 1: out fine at the convent in England, over the years
Speaker 1: that Sarin was there, he went from being welcomed and
Speaker 1: well received to being kept away from her are only
Speaker 1: allowed to see her in very brief visits. He also
Speaker 1: described his niece slowly changing and felt that things were
Speaker 1: not right with her, and when the Bishop was on
Speaker 1: the stand, he recalled that after his visit in which
Speaker 1: he reassured Miss Saren, that Mrs Starr had cried when
Speaker 1: he left because she was unhappy with what he had
Speaker 1: said to her. He said, quote, I did not like
Speaker 1: to tell them Mrs Starr and Mrs Kennedy my feelings,
Speaker 1: and I left them very dissatisfied, and certainly Mrs Starr cried.
Speaker 1: The Solicitor General also pointed out that Star contradicted herself
Speaker 1: and her testimony. For example, she mentioned that after the
Speaker 1: Bishop's visit, she wrote, quote the issue of the visitation
Speaker 1: gave her and her supporters an immense triumph over us,
Speaker 1: of which they show their full appreciation whenever they have
Speaker 1: an opportunity. But then, under questioning, it turned out that
Speaker 1: she couldn't come up with any such supporters. She'd initially
Speaker 1: said that she meant Sarren's family, but they hadn't been
Speaker 1: allowed to visit often, if at all, and even when
Speaker 1: they did see Miss Sarren, it was briefly. They usually
Speaker 1: didn't see the mother superior. Yeah. He was basically like,
Speaker 1: when exactly did anybody learn this over you? Because these
Speaker 1: people weren't even around when you said they were. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of instances like that where
Speaker 1: her sort of double dealings where she was writing simultaneous
Speaker 1: letters saying very different things were coming up. And uh,
Speaker 1: she she did not do particularly spectacularly under questioning, there
Speaker 1: were a lot of I don't know is in the mix. Uh.
Speaker 1: Mrs Starr was actually found also to have destroyed some
Speaker 1: of the papers that were germane to this court case.
Speaker 1: She said that she did so because she had felt
Speaker 1: that the matters in them were settled, but some of
Speaker 1: them were destroyed after Miss Sarron began legal action, which
Speaker 1: of course is not something you're supposed to do. Mr Coleridge,
Speaker 1: the Solicitor General, noted that while both Mrs Starr and
Speaker 1: Mrs Kennedy were quick to say that one of miss
Speaker 1: sarn sins was pointing out the flaws of others, that
Speaker 1: they were both awfully quick to belt out a let
Speaker 1: me of the transgressions that they felt that she had committed.
Speaker 1: Through the witnesses that they called, the defense tried to
Speaker 1: build a case against Miss Sarren's character. They claimed that
Speaker 1: she liked possessions and things like clothes. They also said
Speaker 1: that she liked to around the convent at night, which
Speaker 1: was both odd behavior and something they didn't want her
Speaker 1: to do. She wasn't enthusiastic about teaching children, and she
Speaker 1: was said to sneak food outside of allowed meal times.
Speaker 1: Her writing to family members using language such as my
Speaker 1: dearest uncle was considered excessive and overly affectionate. In short,
Speaker 1: she was not per the defense upholding her vows. And
Speaker 1: of course, there was also this hope for some of
Speaker 1: the spectators that as the defense started to characterize Saren
Speaker 1: as a very poor nun, that there might be something
Speaker 1: truly salacious revealed in the midst of all of the testimony,
Speaker 1: and at one point it did come up that Miss
Speaker 1: Saren became quote excited when a certain priest would visit
Speaker 1: the convent. This, of course, immediately got people thinking there
Speaker 1: was some sort of sexual relationship. That idea was pretty
Speaker 1: quickly dismissed, even by Mrs Starr, but still the rumor
Speaker 1: mill kind of ran with that one. It's clear from
Speaker 1: some of the response to things that came up in
Speaker 1: this trial that there was a degree of humor that's
Speaker 1: the Solicitor General and some of the assembled crowd found
Speaker 1: in the rules of the convent, and to counter that,
Speaker 1: a big part of the defense's case was trying to
Speaker 1: convey that while some of the rules of religious life
Speaker 1: seemed petty or silly to outsiders, they were a vital
Speaker 1: part of a larger devotion. So being obedient to the
Speaker 1: Mother Superior, they argued, was part of the vows that
Speaker 1: Sarren had taken and a life she had agreed to freely.
Speaker 1: On February, the Solicitor General made his closing speech. In
Speaker 1: it he stated how big this case really was to
Speaker 1: the welfare of Miss Saren, saying, quote, it is my
Speaker 1: duty to tell you now that this is, in truth
Speaker 1: and fact, an issue of her social life and death.
Speaker 1: It is a question whether she is to be permitted
Speaker 1: to continue the life to which she has devoted herself,
Speaker 1: to which she is intimately wedded and passionately attached, or
Speaker 1: whether she is to be flung back upon the world
Speaker 1: which she believed she had left forever, and for which
Speaker 1: she is now entirely unsuited, with a stain upon her
Speaker 1: character which no lapse of time can ever avail to
Speaker 1: a face. He also took the opportunity to point out
Speaker 1: that the convents of England were, in his view, operating
Speaker 1: under such a veil of secrecy that it allowed these
Speaker 1: kinds of abuses to happen. He pointed out how in
Speaker 1: this particular case, all the cruelty brought to bear by
Speaker 1: Mrs Starr seemed really against what he knew of Christianity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he definitely uses that tactic of going, look, I'm not
Speaker 1: a clergy member. I wouldn't claim to be an expert
Speaker 1: on religion, but what I know of Christianity this doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to fall in line with Yeah, there's a difference
Speaker 1: between being strict and bullying someone yes. Um. The jury
Speaker 1: reached its verdict on February eighteen sixty nine, after deliberating
Speaker 1: for less than an hour, and while a number of
Speaker 1: papers actually reported that things seemed to be stacked in
Speaker 1: favor of the defendants, the jury found in favor of
Speaker 1: the plaintiff on the counts of libel and conspiracy. See
Speaker 1: Sarin was not, however, awarded the five thousand pounds that
Speaker 1: she had sought. She was awarded five hundred. This wasn't
Speaker 1: the end of it, though. Starr and her staff appealed
Speaker 1: the jury's decision, but the second wave of legal action
Speaker 1: didn't get all the attention that the first one had.
Speaker 1: It faded from the public eye as other cases rose
Speaker 1: up and came into focus, and it never made it
Speaker 1: to trial. In April of eighteen seventy the matter was
Speaker 1: settled out of court, and this trial, and particularly Mrs
Speaker 1: Starr's testimony in it, really only fanned the flames of
Speaker 1: suspicion against the Catholic Church and a general anti Catholic
Speaker 1: sentiment in England. Uh that was of course in place
Speaker 1: long before Miss Sarin brought her case to the court,
Speaker 1: even before the trial began, like leading up to it,
Speaker 1: newspapers were running editorials suggesting that girls and young women
Speaker 1: who might be considering entering a convent should consider such
Speaker 1: a move very carefully, given the possible situations that the
Speaker 1: Sarin versus Star case illuminated. Yeah, you and I had
Speaker 1: a conversation before we came into the studio about how
Speaker 1: uh stars response to a lot of these allegations was
Speaker 1: sort of like, yeah, that's how we do it in
Speaker 1: a convent, not whether there's a problem or a bad
Speaker 1: way to behave. Yeah. I mean, she really didn't deny
Speaker 1: most of the charges. In some cases she tried to
Speaker 1: say no, no, that's framed for maximum dramatic effect and
Speaker 1: to make us look bad. Yes, we took her food away,
Speaker 1: but you have to understand that was a punishment that
Speaker 1: we felt fit the crime of of complaining about her
Speaker 1: food or their belief, even though they never found evidence
Speaker 1: that she was stealing food. So it's a little bit weird.
Speaker 1: Like we said, there was no, not really a lot
Speaker 1: of oh that didn't happen, more a matter of well,
Speaker 1: it didn't happen quite like that, and if it did,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. That's how we do it. In
Speaker 1: a preface written by James Grant Esquire to accompany the
Speaker 1: publication of the trial account. Shortly after it was concluded,
Speaker 1: he wrote, quote, the whole country has been astounded by
Speaker 1: the evidence which has been brought forward in the course
Speaker 1: of this remarkable trial of the real character of Roman Catholicism.
Speaker 1: The outer world now see Potpoury with a clearness of
Speaker 1: vision with which they never saw it before. And the
Speaker 1: site will not, I feel assured, render it more attractive
Speaker 1: in the eyes of those whose mental perceptions are not obscured.
Speaker 1: They must, on the contrary, be appalled as well as
Speaker 1: amazed by the hideousness of the features which potpour represents
Speaker 1: as exhibited within the last few weeks in Westminster Hall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he also was trying to make a case that there
Speaker 1: should be some sort of oversight put in place where
Speaker 1: convents were regularly inspected and toured by people outside the church.
Speaker 1: I mean, he makes very clear in that preface that
Speaker 1: he is anti Potpourri. So that, um. The story of
Speaker 1: the Great Comment case persisted for decades after it was over, though,
Speaker 1: as the juicier details were recounted over and over and
Speaker 1: sometimes bent and dramatized a bit, even into the early
Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, there were still penny press versions of this
Speaker 1: trial being printed, and the covers would feature things like
Speaker 1: two nuns whipping a partially undressed third none. Obviously, there
Speaker 1: was a significant degree of bias against the convent and
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church from the outset in this case, Although
Speaker 1: the Solicitor General urged the jury to disregard such personal bias,
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to imagine that there was done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like I mean, I'm sure they all intended well,
Speaker 1: but I'm there. I'm also sure that in the backs
Speaker 1: of their minds many of them were like uh. There
Speaker 1: was also a point made by Mrs Star at one
Speaker 1: point that, of course Miss Saren wanted to make this
Speaker 1: a legal matter and try it before a Protestant jury
Speaker 1: that would have anti Catholic bias, rather than go through
Speaker 1: the Church's channels of review, which she felt would obviously
Speaker 1: find in favor of her mother's superior um. It is
Speaker 1: also difficult to truly separate the bias that we've been
Speaker 1: talking about from many of the accounts of the trial
Speaker 1: that we have. So while the court reporter's account is
Speaker 1: theoretically unbiased and the barristers in the case all appeared,
Speaker 1: at least on the surface, to strive to act outside
Speaker 1: of any such cultural or religious bias. They too, probably
Speaker 1: were motivated on some level by it, or, in the
Speaker 1: case of the plaintiffs representation, to be carefully playing on
Speaker 1: the juries inherent bias, even while saying do not be biased. Moreover,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that this case was published so
Speaker 1: frequently in England following its conclusion was this desire to
Speaker 1: warn young women away from a life in the clergy.
Speaker 1: So if Sarren was able to return to her life's
Speaker 1: calling and another convent after this case was finally settled,
Speaker 1: there are no records of that that we can find. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't turn any up, um and she, you know
Speaker 1: it kind of she kind of vanishes from the public
Speaker 1: record after that. It's entirely possible she went and lived
Speaker 1: with family from that point on and that was the
Speaker 1: remainder of her life, because it doesn't seem like she
Speaker 1: was really going to be able to like suddenly take
Speaker 1: on a career or be married. Yeah, I mean, this
Speaker 1: was what she wanted forever. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that comes up in the trial is that the greatest
Speaker 1: heartbreak and to her one of the most painful things
Speaker 1: about being expelled is that they took her ring from her,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, like the symbol of her being
Speaker 1: married to the church and a bride of Christ, and
Speaker 1: that that was like the biggest heartache that she endured
Speaker 1: amongst all of these other things was that they were saying, no,
Speaker 1: that thing that you said you are, you're not, which
Speaker 1: was incredibly painful for her. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I think would have been really difficult at the time,
Speaker 1: even for people who we're trying to really put their
Speaker 1: own biases aside, Like, there weren't that many other situations
Speaker 1: where a group of people would be living by themselves
Speaker 1: together by themselves, is not like isolated from the rest
Speaker 1: of the society in a group for their whole lives. Like,
Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of comparison to another similar situation
Speaker 1: where you might also see instances of abuses and bullying.
Speaker 1: So it probably appeared to people as though this was
Speaker 1: unique to Catholicism or unique to con events, when really
Speaker 1: theyre just weren't exactly comparable situations. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: wish I could take those people forward in time and
Speaker 1: show them like any Internet interest group and watch how
Speaker 1: it employed in similar highly not the same level of stuff,
Speaker 1: but it certainly happened. I am I was. I keep
Speaker 1: being reminded throughout this of just being bullied by classmates
Speaker 1: in middle school, Like it felt like that level of pettiness,
Speaker 1: and oh yeah, there's a mean girls element to it.
Speaker 1: And really, when you think it all started because she
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell this woman what she had confessed to her priest,
Speaker 1: it gets very you realize how petty the seed is
Speaker 1: that leads to so much pain. And also, I mean,
Speaker 1: for the mother's fire. It wasn't like I'm sure she
Speaker 1: wasn't like, yeah, this will drag out for years in
Speaker 1: letters in court, but she couldn't get over that like
Speaker 1: anger at having not been told this thing, and probably
Speaker 1: she didn't even recognize that was the catalyst anymore. Um,
Speaker 1: don't be like that people. Uh is our life lesson
Speaker 1: be kind to one another? That's easy to say. I know,
Speaker 1: I have such much more pleasant and delightful and colorful
Speaker 1: listener mail. Um. This comes from our listener Colleen, who writes,
Speaker 1: Dear Holly and Tracy, thank you so much for the
Speaker 1: wonderful show. I work for a publisher that produces materials
Speaker 1: for K to twelve classrooms, and I am currently working
Speaker 1: on a series of primary source libraries for middle and
Speaker 1: high school students. I needed one more document for World
Speaker 1: War One, and it was the episode A Brief History
Speaker 1: of Donuts that gave me the idea to use a
Speaker 1: photograph of a donut lassie. It's one story that the
Speaker 1: kids won't miss in history class. Enclosed are a couple
Speaker 1: of sticker packs I developed for work. I hope you
Speaker 1: will get a kick out of them. Sorry, not sorry
Speaker 1: for all the terrible puns. Thank you again for all
Speaker 1: that you do. You're a constant source of inspiration and education. Colleen, Colleen,
Speaker 1: this is so sweet, and now I can tell Tracy.
Speaker 1: Before we started recording, I was looking at these stickers,
Speaker 1: which are adorable, and I started buckling to myself like
Speaker 1: I had lost my wits. And it's because one of them.
Speaker 1: I don't normally love puns, but these are very clever.
Speaker 1: And the one that I love, it's sort of like
Speaker 1: an encouragement sist sticker, and it's got a picture of
Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth wearing some groovy eighties style slat sunglasses. Um,
Speaker 1: and it says great but the Great is spelled g
Speaker 1: r v I I I and that just tickled me
Speaker 1: to pieces. That's great. Um. They are also great ones
Speaker 1: with fierce Genghis Khan and uh to legit Elizabeth the First,
Speaker 1: among others. They're fabulous and I love them so thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Colleen. You can write to us in
Speaker 1: history podcast at how stuff Works dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us everywhere on social media as Missed in History.
Speaker 1: Missed in History dot com is also the website u
Speaker 1: r L if you want to come and visit and
Speaker 1: find all of the episodes that have ever existed, and
Speaker 1: if you would like to subscribe, that sounds like a
Speaker 1: grand plan to us. You can do that on the
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