Speaker 1: On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have wenenium, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante and
Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Lofton, and we're superheroes. Where when
Speaker 1: it comes to analyzing media from a feminist lens, what
Speaker 1: a boring superpower? Honestly, I'm asleep, but I'm asleep during
Speaker 1: most Marveled movies, so it's fine, Sure, I like them,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of our dynamic. That's kind of think
Speaker 1: about it. It's basically that is how each of us
Speaker 1: is defined wild. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. This is
Speaker 1: our feminist movie podcast, where we look at famous movies
Speaker 1: or in this case, famous movie franchises from a feminist lens,
Speaker 1: using the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point, that,
Speaker 1: of course, being the media test devised by evil genius
Speaker 1: Alison Bechtel. Uh said media test that states that there
Speaker 1: must be two female identifying characters in any piece of
Speaker 1: media that talk about something other than a man, and
Speaker 1: they must have names. And for our purposes we just
Speaker 1: require a two line exchange. Very low bar. And yet
Speaker 1: a lot of these movies that we're talking about today
Speaker 1: do not barely even try. Even when Josh Wheden is
Speaker 1: that director? Yeah, Mr Buffy, why didn't you do better?
Speaker 1: Excuse me, Mr male feminist? Excuse me? Josh wheed and
Speaker 1: kicking down the door saying like, what what is that shirt?
Speaker 1: Feminism is the law? Now what is that shirt? I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know the feminist shirt? Everyone has.
Speaker 1: The future is female. Yes, feminism is the line the
Speaker 1: same thing. Look out for that in our riches store. Yes.
Speaker 1: So today we are talking about essentially the entire Avengers franchise. However,
Speaker 1: for the purposes of this episode, I have only seen
Speaker 1: the first Avengers movie. Yes, so recap wise, we're talking,
Speaker 1: but we're going to also talk about themes in the
Speaker 1: entire I've got well that's the thing. I'm doing the
Speaker 1: recapital differently today. I've got short paragraphs for each movie,
Speaker 1: so you'll you'll see the whole pieces. I know, I
Speaker 1: know this is this is We're going off the rails here, baby,
Speaker 1: I'm lokey over here. I'm sucking. Sometimes I'm good, sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm bad. Toms Hailston looks like a straight up bug Loki.
Speaker 1: He looks like an insect. I don't like his hair. Sure,
Speaker 1: so yeah, things are going to be a little bit different.
Speaker 1: We are not talking about Avengers Endgame. We have not
Speaker 1: seen that yet, but we for the sake of this episode,
Speaker 1: are covering the Avengers from two thousand twelve. We're focusing
Speaker 1: on that one. But there are a few things to
Speaker 1: be said about some other Marvel Ensemble movies like Avengers,
Speaker 1: Age of Ultron, Avengers Infinity War. There will be some
Speaker 1: references to Captain America's Civil War because that's basically an
Speaker 1: Avengers movie, so fair warning, you may hear some spoilers
Speaker 1: for those movies. This all sounds like another language to me.
Speaker 1: I watched just just you wait. Um, let's introduce our
Speaker 1: guests before we go any further. She is the host
Speaker 1: of the podcast Saver and the podcast stuff Mom Never
Speaker 1: told you. It's Annie Reese. Hi, Hello, thanks for joining us. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I kind of
Speaker 1: low key. Oh there's always a low key joke when
Speaker 1: you say low key anyway, hi key, why isn't Thor's
Speaker 1: name hi key? Oh yeah, missed opportunity funny. It really
Speaker 1: is the more low key one though. Anyway, Yeah, some
Speaker 1: poetic irony there. I like invited myself to do this
Speaker 1: when both of you were on my podcast. I'm very
Speaker 1: happy this is happening. Yes you are. You're a big fan? Correct? Yes? Um?
Speaker 1: As of like two nights ago, I have watched all
Speaker 1: twenty one MCU movies in chronological order. Who yes, that
Speaker 1: that is an undertake? Did you take pea breaks? Just
Speaker 1: wear a diaper? As like, as I say, if you
Speaker 1: were a true fan, you wouldn't take but test anyone's
Speaker 1: fandom of anything, I'm like, do you pe All right, Well,
Speaker 1: we've got a lot to cover, so let's just kind
Speaker 1: of dive, right, So Jamie, really quickly, what's your history
Speaker 1: with the franchise in mc you in general? So I
Speaker 1: am feeling insecure going into this episode because every time
Speaker 1: that I have not seen a huge movie franchise, people
Speaker 1: swan dive into my mentions and call me a fucking loser. Um. However,
Speaker 1: this is one of the massive franchise is that I
Speaker 1: have interacted with. I've only dipped my toe and I've
Speaker 1: seen one of the Captain America movies, no idea, which
Speaker 1: I saw Aunt Man and the Wasp. I saw Captain
Speaker 1: Marvel and Black Panther you've seen. I've seen Black Panther.
Speaker 1: That is I'm pretty sure. And that now I've seen
Speaker 1: the first Avengers. It that is all I've seen. Um So,
Speaker 1: I think I do think I have with some research
Speaker 1: a general idea, and then I have through osmosis. I've
Speaker 1: experienced a lot of people talking about it around me,
Speaker 1: but I just it's just never been my genre, has
Speaker 1: never been my thing. Please don't get into my mentions
Speaker 1: about it. I don't care. Leave us alone, leave us alone. Listen,
Speaker 1: but then but then don't engage. Feminism is the law now, Annie,
Speaker 1: what is your brief history and relationship with the m
Speaker 1: c U. Well, it's interesting because I kind of became
Speaker 1: a reverse I was as a kid, I really liked
Speaker 1: comics and I read um about like fan O, the
Speaker 1: Infinity War, and and it kind of became like nut
Speaker 1: cool for girls to like that, and now it's like
Speaker 1: cool for people, like because the future is female. I
Speaker 1: just remembered Spider Man too is in the m c U.
Speaker 1: Technically not really not, but it's Spider Man. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's not in the never mind, it is Marvel, but
Speaker 1: it's not in the m c U. This is why
Speaker 1: I hate comic book movies. I was like, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: Spider Man isn't the movie as Like, fine, I'm being dark.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I interrupted Tom Hittleston Spider Many. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I actually there's a whole contract thing involved in that,
Speaker 1: and I'm a big legal nerd, so I won't go
Speaker 1: into it, but I I'm going to tell you, Okay,
Speaker 1: I love legal drama more than I wonder what Alfred's
Speaker 1: take on all of this is. He's not canonically part
Speaker 1: of the m c U. Alfred Molina. That is a
Speaker 1: federal crime. People should be in jail. That is very
Speaker 1: fucked up. Okay, Well, sorry, and I keep interrupting it. No,
Speaker 1: no worries. Um. So, I I saw Iron Man when
Speaker 1: it came out because I remember it was like a
Speaker 1: big deal, and then I didn't really see another one
Speaker 1: until The Avengers. My my family just liked going movies.
Speaker 1: I can't recall why we went to go see it. Um.
Speaker 1: But then after that, I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I am in yeah, and I was converted. You're one
Speaker 1: of the Avengers. Also, I caused play every year as
Speaker 1: the Winter Soldier I was. I was seeing your Instagram
Speaker 1: posts about that, so that's pretty cool. Thank you for
Speaker 1: saying it's cool. I appreciate. No, of course, my history
Speaker 1: is kind of the same as yours. I didn't read
Speaker 1: any of the comics, but I did start with Iron
Speaker 1: Man because that was the first mc U movie, if
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, and I saw it in the theater,
Speaker 1: and then I watched others in the theaters sporadically. But
Speaker 1: as of as of now, I have seen I think
Speaker 1: every m CU movie except for any of the Hulk ones. Well,
Speaker 1: there's only the one. Yeah, So Edward Norton is Edward
Speaker 1: Norton Cannon No, okay, good, Yeah, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: That movie is like in the m c U, but
Speaker 1: they just kind of recast him. But Tony Stark appears
Speaker 1: and he's like, yo, I'm looking to put together this
Speaker 1: group interest I mean, Ruffalo over Norton any any day?
Speaker 1: Three hard degree? Yes, okay, So let me really quickly
Speaker 1: do the recaps. Yeah, and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 1: There's got nineteen phases, starting with the Avengers from the
Speaker 1: story of that is the Loki shows up on Earth.
Speaker 1: He's Thor's brother. He steals the tests Are Act, which
Speaker 1: Jamie you might be familiar with from from Captain Marvel
Speaker 1: is where I recognize it and they refer to her.
Speaker 1: They refer to the test React with she her pronounce
Speaker 1: so interesting and I forgot about that The Avengers so feminists, yes,
Speaker 1: or well a woman. We don't know if she's like
Speaker 1: with us or not. So Loki steals a test React
Speaker 1: from Shield and they need to get it back because
Speaker 1: it's important. We don't really know what it does. I
Speaker 1: don't think Shield recruits Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow,
Speaker 1: and the Hulk to go after Loki, and then all
Speaker 1: these superhero people capture him, and then Thor shows up
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, brother, and then he takes back
Speaker 1: arrested development style, yea exactly. He takes Loki back, and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, no, what Thor, What's going on? But
Speaker 1: it's okay because Thor is one of the good guys
Speaker 1: and we know that from all the Thor movies that
Speaker 1: we've seen up till that point. And then they put
Speaker 1: Loki in a cage, but they still don't know where
Speaker 1: the tests Are Act is. They learned that Loki is
Speaker 1: building a portal for the help of some of the
Speaker 1: good guys that Loki put under spell, including he put
Speaker 1: the female tests I Act into a phallic like object
Speaker 1: and is using it to suck people's hearts out symbolism
Speaker 1: maybe possibly an accident, perhaps um so. One of the
Speaker 1: one of the good guys that he has under his
Speaker 1: spell is Hawkeye, a k fabulous standard comedian Jeremy and
Speaker 1: then also Stelen's scars guard who is a character from
Speaker 1: the Thor movies and he's in isn't he in? Mamma Mia?
Speaker 1: He certainly is? Yea, yes, okay, speaking my language. And
Speaker 1: then Loki escapes and all hell breaks loose, and then
Speaker 1: Black Widow hits Hawkeye really hard and it turns him
Speaker 1: good again, and then Loki only six him. She fixes him.
Speaker 1: Loki on Lea shows his army on New York City
Speaker 1: Ever Heard of It? That arrives via the portal that
Speaker 1: he was building, and then the Avengers Long fight band together.
Speaker 1: They fight back. There's a big flying metal reptile and
Speaker 1: then they kill it and then they win and save
Speaker 1: the world. The reptile identifies we don't, which could make
Speaker 1: a difference. Yes, so that is a brief overview of
Speaker 1: the story of the Avengers. Moving on to Age of Ultron.
Speaker 1: Is that the one that Josweden directed that people didn't
Speaker 1: like as much? Correct? That is the one I'm following.
Speaker 1: So the first thing happens is the Avengers retrieve Loki's
Speaker 1: scepter from a bad guy named Strucker, who's that we
Speaker 1: don't really know. It doesn't matter. I think he dies
Speaker 1: shortly after that. Cool, I think again, I probably don't
Speaker 1: have all the details, right, I'm probably gonna suck some
Speaker 1: stuff up. So also, don't divide into my mentions either.
Speaker 1: I just still traumatized from the Lord of the Rings episodes,
Speaker 1: like just leave us alone. We're doing our best. There's
Speaker 1: a gem inside the scepter, and that would become important later.
Speaker 1: We always need an object to circle these movies around,
Speaker 1: because why write a movie right exactly? We need a MacGuffin.
Speaker 1: So then Tony Stark wants to create ai named Ultron
Speaker 1: as a peacekeeping program to help the Avengers, and then
Speaker 1: he uses the coding question mark from the gem that's
Speaker 1: inside the scepter to make Ultron. But as soon as
Speaker 1: he does, Ultron is mad and he's mean to Jarvis,
Speaker 1: which is, I don't mean to Jarvis, friend slash suit
Speaker 1: man God. We also we should mention that Gwyneth Paltrow's
Speaker 1: lurking around two. She's around sometimes, probably has a jade
Speaker 1: egg in her vagina. She's smearing goop all over where
Speaker 1: power Anyways, So then Ultron embodies one of Iron Man's
Speaker 1: old suits and he shows up at Tony Stark's party
Speaker 1: and he's like, Hi, I'm here and I'm a bad guy.
Speaker 1: And then the Avengers like rats, So this was such
Speaker 1: a good party, yeah, exactly. Then they try to find
Speaker 1: him a little bit. Altron gets away, he takes the
Speaker 1: scepter and he enlists the help of the Maximov siblings.
Speaker 1: I think are they twins? That reminds me of who
Speaker 1: are those murderer the Menendez brothers I was thinking of.
Speaker 1: Never mind, So the maximum twins are Peter or Petrie
Speaker 1: I don't know. Also, Altron is James Spader, Yes, Peter's
Speaker 1: really fast, Wanda has like mind control and telekinesis powers. Um.
Speaker 1: So the Avengers they're trying to stop Ultron. Meanwhile, Altron
Speaker 1: tries to build a real body for himself using this
Speaker 1: like high tech regeneration pod cradle, and he takes the
Speaker 1: gem out of the scepter, which we eventually find out
Speaker 1: is the mind Infinity Stone, which is going to become
Speaker 1: really important in Avengers Infinity Warship. How many fucking rocks
Speaker 1: and cpters and none of them are the Heart of
Speaker 1: the Ocean. I know, it's the complete heart of the
Speaker 1: Ocean eras, okay, So then he puts this mind Infinity
Speaker 1: Stone into this body's head. But then the Avengers get
Speaker 1: the cradle back from Altron, and Tony Stark wants to
Speaker 1: use that body that Altron has been making to upload
Speaker 1: Jarvis into it. So everyone is like, Tony, you're you're
Speaker 1: crazy that well guess what he does it anyway, and
Speaker 1: the Jarvis man turned doubt to be good, so it's fine,
Speaker 1: and they need him his help to defeat Ultron. They
Speaker 1: name him Vision Uh. And then meanwhile the Twins have
Speaker 1: realized that Altron is too evil because he wants to
Speaker 1: cause a mass extinction, so they leave and they join
Speaker 1: the Avengers, and then there's this big battle at the
Speaker 1: end where the Avengers fight Altron and his Robot Army
Speaker 1: in Scovia. The good guys win. Of course, there's only
Speaker 1: one casualty among the Avenger people, which is Peter. Who
Speaker 1: is Peter. Peter is the really fast guy. He goes
Speaker 1: off and becomes an X Man or something rest in
Speaker 1: Peace and so now the Avengers have more friends like Wanda, Falcon,
Speaker 1: war Machine and Vision. So yeah, cost them Peter. So
Speaker 1: that's the story of Avengers, Age of Ultron And what's
Speaker 1: the next one called. So the next movie that I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about is Captain America Civil War. I've
Speaker 1: might know this one. Let me describe it and you
Speaker 1: let me know if you've seen it. Cool, Okay. And
Speaker 1: the reason I'm doing this one is because it is
Speaker 1: not technically an Avengers movie, but it has almost all
Speaker 1: of the characters that exists within this world and you
Speaker 1: kind of need to know the story of this movie
Speaker 1: to understand a lot of what happens in Infinity War,
Speaker 1: the next Avengers movie. So that's why I'm including this one.
Speaker 1: So we open in the world is Piste off at
Speaker 1: the Avengers for destroying Scovia, which we just saw them too,
Speaker 1: and New York, which we saw them doing the first movie.
Speaker 1: And all these other places, and they want the Avengers
Speaker 1: to agree to operate under the supervision of a United
Speaker 1: Nations panel. And then half the Avengers are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds reasonable. Yeah, we did help cause a lot
Speaker 1: of destruction. I bet Tony's not on board. Tony is
Speaker 1: on board, on board to spearheading it. He's good, He's good. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: because this is Captain America's movie, he is positioned as
Speaker 1: the bad guy in this kind of because we're rooting
Speaker 1: for Captain America, even though Captain America personal bias over here.
Speaker 1: I think he sucks. Anyway, I just don't even know
Speaker 1: which Chris he is. So that's Chris Evans, But isn't
Speaker 1: there another Chris in the main cast? Chris Hemsworth is Thor,
Speaker 1: and then by Infinity War we also have Chris Pratt
Speaker 1: because he's in Guardians of the Galaxy. There was the
Speaker 1: only main Chris we're missing is Chris Pine and he's
Speaker 1: over in DC world being in Wonder Woman Purgatory. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So the Avengers who are like on board with this
Speaker 1: the Cyclovia accord are iron Man, Black Widow, Roady, and
Speaker 1: Vision and then the other half of the group like
Speaker 1: our hero Captain America, Falcon, Hawkeye, and Wanda. They refused
Speaker 1: to sign and they don't want to be because they
Speaker 1: don't want to be super revised or controlled by anyone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so both sides recruit other super people such as Spider Man,
Speaker 1: Aunt Man, and Black Panther and they have a big
Speaker 1: fight a civil war if you will, at and an airport.
Speaker 1: Um and then also the Blue stair Car is in
Speaker 1: the background, so another arrested development reference. Wait really not technically,
Speaker 1: but there's a stair car that looks exactly like the
Speaker 1: Blue stair Car. I definitely haven't seen this. You might
Speaker 1: have seen Winter Soldier maybe. Um. I feel like the
Speaker 1: rest of the plot for this movie is not really
Speaker 1: important for our discussion. So the main thing is that
Speaker 1: Captain America and Iron Man fight each other and it
Speaker 1: ends up breaking apart the Avengers. Okay, so that's the
Speaker 1: story for Civil War. Annie, have I missed anything glaring
Speaker 1: so far? I don't think. So it's a lot to
Speaker 1: These movies are very dense, Okay, So I'll move on
Speaker 1: to Infinity War and then we'll go from there. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Avengers Infinity War we open with sanos He is
Speaker 1: collecting all of the Infinity Stones to put on his
Speaker 1: glove God so that he can snap his fingers and
Speaker 1: kill half of the population of the entire universe. He
Speaker 1: already has the Purple Power Stone, and in the beginning
Speaker 1: of this movie Infinity War, he gets the Blue Space Stone,
Speaker 1: which could very easily have been the Heart of the
Speaker 1: Ocean from Titanic. Not to invite James Cameron into the
Speaker 1: negotiation process. Rude, rude, Yes, he so he gets the
Speaker 1: Blue Space Stone from the tests erect so that thing
Speaker 1: comes back. And then there are four more stones that
Speaker 1: he needs. Now two of them are on Earth. Doctor
Speaker 1: Strange has one of them. He has the Green Time Stone,
Speaker 1: and Vision has the Yellow Mindstone in his head. Remember
Speaker 1: that from that other movie I described, So that's sort
Speaker 1: of So Santos sends his friends to go get those
Speaker 1: two stones that are on Earth, and then Tony Stark
Speaker 1: has to get the Avengers back together because remember how
Speaker 1: they were all split up at the end of Captain
Speaker 1: America's Civil War. Yes, so he's like, come on, let's
Speaker 1: get back together. We gotta stop Thanos. And then Spider
Speaker 1: Man shows up. He's like, hey, he's so adorable. Yes,
Speaker 1: and then Thor goes out into space. He meets the
Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy Wow. And then Vision and Wanda
Speaker 1: are attacked by thanos s goons who are trying to
Speaker 1: get the mind Stone, and then Black Widow, Captain America
Speaker 1: and Falcons s up to help Vision and Wanda, and
Speaker 1: they take Vision to Wakonda, the home of Black Panther.
Speaker 1: I'm back to get the Mindstone out of his head
Speaker 1: so that they can destroy it before Thanos gets it.
Speaker 1: Is Lupida in this movie. She is not but a
Speaker 1: koy as denied. Gurero's character is cool Um and Shari,
Speaker 1: so we get to see some of our friends. So meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Thanos gets the Reality Stone on a planet called Nowhere
Speaker 1: from this guy the Collector hate it. And then he
Speaker 1: captures his daughter who he abducted when she was a child,
Speaker 1: Go Mora, and he gets the Soul Stone by sacrificing her,
Speaker 1: so she has to die. Unfortunately. Yeah, we'll talk about it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then Thor gets a new axe in the place
Speaker 1: of his old hammer. I forget what happens to his hammer.
Speaker 1: Probably that's explained, and Thor Ragnarok, I don't remember, Oh right, right, right, right, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm for that. Santos gets the Green Timestone from Doctor Strange,
Speaker 1: and then Santos shows up at the big battle that's
Speaker 1: been happening in Waconda and he gets the Mindstone from Vision.
Speaker 1: So now he has all six stones, baby, And what
Speaker 1: do you think he does? Doesn't he kill a lot
Speaker 1: of people? He kills like half the world or something.
Speaker 1: That's right. See, I just went to three parties and
Speaker 1: I know that I just just saved myself hundred dollars
Speaker 1: of movie tickets. So half the people vanish into dust
Speaker 1: and everyone's sad. And do we know who's dead and
Speaker 1: who's alive? Or is that now we see who dies?
Speaker 1: Spider Man dies? I know? Wait does he get no
Speaker 1: more movies? Well he's coming back for Spider Man Far
Speaker 1: from Home right on with yes love it, so he
Speaker 1: I think it's revitalized. We'll have to see as I
Speaker 1: forget who lives and who dies? But um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: have the people die and that's the end of the
Speaker 1: movies to date. So why don't we take a quick
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back for the discussion and
Speaker 1: we're back. Okay, So the first thing I kind of
Speaker 1: want to do is do an inventory of the characters
Speaker 1: in the Avengers franchise slash the Marvel ensemble movies, which
Speaker 1: includes Captain America Civil War side note, these are often
Speaker 1: not the first movies that we see these characters in,
Speaker 1: and we see crossovers and other m CU movies, but
Speaker 1: these are the movies that these characters are added to.
Speaker 1: In these big ensemble cast Marvel movies, the point I
Speaker 1: will eventually make is that they keep adding a bunch
Speaker 1: of men and very few women. So for example, um,
Speaker 1: in the Avengers from we've got Iron Man Tony Stark,
Speaker 1: we've got Captain America Steve Rogers, We've got Thor, we've
Speaker 1: got Hulk, Bruce Banner, we've got Hawkeye Clint Barton. Um,
Speaker 1: those are the super people. Yeah, and then we've got,
Speaker 1: from what I can tell from the from the first
Speaker 1: Avengers movie, we have three female characters who are identified
Speaker 1: or participate in the plot in virtually anyway at all.
Speaker 1: Where we've got black Woodow, we've got Pepper, who is
Speaker 1: lightly involved in Tony stark storyline. And then we've got
Speaker 1: Kobe Smallders who basically just gives lines of exposition to Nick,
Speaker 1: which sucks because I I mean, I mean, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure it goes without saying that, it is like kind
Speaker 1: of abysmal and frustrating that there are so many men
Speaker 1: who are introduced into this universe and like Blackwoodow has
Speaker 1: not had her own movie, right exactly because I mean,
Speaker 1: I was surprised. I assumed because I hadn't seen the
Speaker 1: first Avengers movie. I assumed that she had a much
Speaker 1: smaller role in it, and that is why she didn't
Speaker 1: have But she's such a huge part of the story
Speaker 1: and still doesn't have. Like that is just pointed and ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And as much as I love and really enjoyed Captain Marvel,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why do we introduce like we have Charlie
Speaker 1: Johanes has been here for ten years? Like can we
Speaker 1: can we give her? I mean, not that you know whatever,
Speaker 1: But they're making that movie right now, they're casting. I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I just why did it take so long? Yeah? Because
Speaker 1: I think she shows up for the first time in
Speaker 1: Iron Man two. Yeah, so yeah, she's been around. She's
Speaker 1: been around, Like but all that to say for in
Speaker 1: the first movie, the Black Widow is a very integral
Speaker 1: part of the main action and is very involved all
Speaker 1: the way up to the climax of the movie. But
Speaker 1: the other two women are we see shots of them,
Speaker 1: just watch the act like they're they're virtually sidelined because
Speaker 1: the only man who sidelined is Fury right because Black
Speaker 1: Widow Slash her name is Natasha Romanov, she's the only
Speaker 1: one who is actually like a superhero. Pepper Potts and
Speaker 1: Maria Hill, which is Colby Smallder's character, either work for
Speaker 1: Shield or work for Stark Industries, Like they're not part
Speaker 1: of the like world saving superhero stuff. I will say
Speaker 1: just based on the research I did of the women
Speaker 1: in the m c U, while it's like disproportionately they're
Speaker 1: not represented, they do at least all appear to be
Speaker 1: in high positions, whether that be like Peppers like the CEO,
Speaker 1: and like she's in charge even though she only gets
Speaker 1: twelve of the credit, which isn't exchange that I loved. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we've got women in stem littered
Speaker 1: throughout this universe. And Kobe Smallder's character, what is Kolbe
Speaker 1: Smallder's character's name, Bria Hill is a Mariah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so. She didn't do anything later, Um, not anything
Speaker 1: that's hugely significant. Kobe Smalldoers. For some reason, I stand
Speaker 1: Kobe Smallders and I wanted more for her. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah indeed. Um. Okay, So those are the main players
Speaker 1: in the first movie. Then we move on to Age
Speaker 1: of Ultron. The male characters that get added into the
Speaker 1: ensemble our vision. Uh, Quicksilver, who does die? That's like
Speaker 1: the Peter maximof character. And then we've got Falcon slash
Speaker 1: Sam Wilson, and we've got war Machine slash Roadie. That's
Speaker 1: Don Cheetles character. So uh, those are the men who
Speaker 1: are added. The women who are added in Age of
Speaker 1: Ultron are the Scarlet Witch ak Wanda maximof Um, that's
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Olsen. She is the only superhero that gets added
Speaker 1: compared to these the four men who get added who
Speaker 1: are superheroes. Um, we do we are into deduced to
Speaker 1: a couple other female characters. There's Dr Helen Chow, but
Speaker 1: she is not a superhero and she dies. She dies
Speaker 1: in the movie. Um. And then we're introduced to Friday,
Speaker 1: which is Iron Man's new female voiced operating system, saying
Speaker 1: that's inside of his suit. Oh cool, So women as
Speaker 1: a robot a service robot not familiar with the concept
Speaker 1: because Vision got promoted to having a body, so he
Speaker 1: has to he hired. He hired a female. We're out now, sick.
Speaker 1: Bottom line there that four men get added to the
Speaker 1: ensemble versus only one woman. And then in Captain America
Speaker 1: Civil War, the men who are added are Black Panther,
Speaker 1: Spider Man, Aunt Man, and the Winter Soldier versus I
Speaker 1: guess how many superhero women are added in Captain America
Speaker 1: Civil War? Is it none? It's none? Amazing. Yes, we
Speaker 1: you meet a new character named Sharon Carter. She is
Speaker 1: not a superhero and she's only I believe of the
Speaker 1: Marvel Ensemble movies. She's only in that movie and uh
Speaker 1: not others. Okay, so let's talk about Infinity War. The
Speaker 1: men who were added to the ensemble, and that are
Speaker 1: star Lord A K. Peter Quill, that's Chris Prett, Drags
Speaker 1: Rocket Groot, those are the Guardians of the Galaxy, and
Speaker 1: then Doctor Strange. We do get a bunch of women
Speaker 1: added in an Infinity War. So we've got go Mora,
Speaker 1: Mantis and Nebula from Guardians of the Galaxy, and then
Speaker 1: sureI and a Koyer from Black panther, right, So the
Speaker 1: balance is a little bit more equal in this one
Speaker 1: and not like zero not zero. This is great, but
Speaker 1: the fact remains that when you crunch the numbers, it's
Speaker 1: still very largely a male cast. Of course, Yes, I
Speaker 1: mean look at posters. I mean, yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker 1: So that that's the inventory of all the characters we're
Speaker 1: working with. Who are you know, the super people in
Speaker 1: the franchise. So let's talk about Um, let's focus on
Speaker 1: the Avengers from We've got pretty much the one main
Speaker 1: female character in Black Wadow slash Natasha Romanov. There's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's her introduction is she's wearing a sexualized outfit and
Speaker 1: she's tied to a chair. Yes, I wonder how Scarlett
Speaker 1: Johanson feels about how she's very often introduced in movies.
Speaker 1: I feel like it is not an unusual thing to
Speaker 1: see a Scarlett Johanson movie where she's introduced in this
Speaker 1: very sexualized way. Um. I don't know why, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of that Coen Brothers movie, Um, Hail Caesar. But that's
Speaker 1: like another example of a movie where she's introduced very sexually.
Speaker 1: But it's weird. That scene feels peak corny or what
Speaker 1: I of you to be like a really corny treatment
Speaker 1: of a female character in uh, in a movie like
Speaker 1: this that I was hoping that, like especially I was
Speaker 1: hoping that the creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer could
Speaker 1: do better than because the way that scene plays out
Speaker 1: is like she's tied to a chair and you know,
Speaker 1: then she gets a call from Colson saying, like, you
Speaker 1: gotta come in. You need to be a superhero. And
Speaker 1: then it turns out she wasn't a damsel in distress
Speaker 1: after all, She could have saved herself the whole time.
Speaker 1: She just didn't feel like it. I guess. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: was waiting to get the information out of the interrogation
Speaker 1: on them basically, which we see her do later on
Speaker 1: Loki Loki right where she's like pretending to be emotional
Speaker 1: and she's using like I'm a woman who cries as
Speaker 1: a like tactic to get men to, like, I guess,
Speaker 1: lower their guard and reveal the information she needs. And
Speaker 1: I don't really know how I feel. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's very low hanging fruit to do, Like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: reacting like a woman would just kidding. I'm not like
Speaker 1: to me, I'm like, that's I don't know that it
Speaker 1: just demonizes emotions right away that I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I think Captain Marvel tackles that situation of like
Speaker 1: dealing with emotions and combat situations far better, right, And
Speaker 1: it kind of just like feeds into the idea that
Speaker 1: like women are devious and we're you know, like we're manipulative,
Speaker 1: and we're doing emotions to trick you, to trickly. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, she's crying, but she's actually planning to kill you,
Speaker 1: which which we also see happen all the time, not
Speaker 1: so much in this movie, but in many other movies
Speaker 1: where women use their sexuality to get what they want,
Speaker 1: which is it's all that also ends up demonizing women's sexuality,
Speaker 1: where it's like I'm using this to get but like
Speaker 1: on one hand, I'm like, well that's not good. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I'm like, well, if you know, if
Speaker 1: idiot men fall for stuff like that, that's and that's
Speaker 1: the tool that we can use to get what we want.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I constantly have conflicting feelings about this.
Speaker 1: It's the only redeeming thing for it is at least
Speaker 1: that is like one of the tactics in an arsenal
Speaker 1: of tactics that she has because we get to see
Speaker 1: Blackwoodow fight hand to hand with a number of men
Speaker 1: in this movie, which I was like, so happy happened,
Speaker 1: and I think is like okay, because I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of male directors who would not have
Speaker 1: let that happen in such a big movie. But it's
Speaker 1: clear that she is like just as capable of fighting
Speaker 1: as any of the other Avengers, which is super important
Speaker 1: because she's the only woman who's allowed to be there
Speaker 1: at that time. So I was psyched about that, Like,
Speaker 1: she knows what she's doing, she's a good fighters, She's
Speaker 1: making her own calls. There's like that one part where
Speaker 1: Captain America a k. A. Chris like are you are
Speaker 1: you sure you can do this? And then she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, fuck you and then she is it, which
Speaker 1: is great. Should say more people name Chris, sorry to
Speaker 1: all our chriss is out there. Another thing I want
Speaker 1: to say about the scene where she's introduced is that
Speaker 1: in order to get out of like the bondage she's
Speaker 1: in and to escape these bad guys, she does the
Speaker 1: classic wrap her legs around a guy's head and pussy
Speaker 1: slam him into the ground. Move right, and that's like
Speaker 1: a move that comes back right. That's like one of
Speaker 1: her signature moves. We see her do it twice in
Speaker 1: Age of Ultron. I don't know if we see it
Speaker 1: in the other ones because maybe people were like, hey,
Speaker 1: stop making her do that, right, But there's so many
Speaker 1: layers moves like that where you're just like, like, it
Speaker 1: feels like such a like creepy dude having their cake
Speaker 1: and eating it too, or they're like, look, no, she's fighting.
Speaker 1: She's like people's ass, but like with her pussy cross. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a huge thing about this franchise is that
Speaker 1: you you do see a fair amount of at first
Speaker 1: a woman fighting, and then as the movies go on,
Speaker 1: a few women fighting. But this very much feels like
Speaker 1: that mc sweeney's piece um the As the token female
Speaker 1: member of this action adventure team, my job is to
Speaker 1: kick by Julianna Gray. If you haven't read it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: to borrow a few quotes from the article that applied
Speaker 1: to this movie. Quote, I wear black leather pants. I
Speaker 1: wear spike heeled boots. When I kick, I pivot like
Speaker 1: a goth both arena and drive a heel into a
Speaker 1: villain's face. End quote. Um, there's another one that is
Speaker 1: mostly I kick. I can throw a knife with pinpoint accuracy.
Speaker 1: I am a wizard at zip lines. I probably know
Speaker 1: how to drive a car, but my male team members
Speaker 1: always take the wheel while I follow on a motorcycle,
Speaker 1: leaning low over the bars, my eyes focused, my ass
Speaker 1: taut and hovering just above the seat. I do not
Speaker 1: wear a helmet, and my hair streams behind me. And God,
Speaker 1: I love so much, but it's like describing this to
Speaker 1: a t and then another one. The final quote I
Speaker 1: want to read is I do not have a sense
Speaker 1: of humor, except for an extensive repertoire of one liners
Speaker 1: about penis size, which like kind of applies to black widows,
Speaker 1: sort of in the sense that she doesn't really Here's
Speaker 1: the thing, I feel like we have less of a
Speaker 1: handle on her personality and characterization than any of the
Speaker 1: other members of the Avengers. I think that partly has
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that she doesn't have her
Speaker 1: own movie and we didn't really get to know her
Speaker 1: kind of one on one right, and she just is
Speaker 1: characterized as this like sexy spy who was trained as
Speaker 1: a spy from birth, and like she has no she
Speaker 1: had her personality trained out of her right. That was
Speaker 1: the thing that bothered me, is like we first, you're
Speaker 1: totally right, like we just don't know her as well
Speaker 1: because Hollywood, right, But it's also that the one scene
Speaker 1: where we sort of get some idea of who she is,
Speaker 1: and that scene where she's talking to Loki, and Loki
Speaker 1: is there and he's looking like a fucking tarantula like man,
Speaker 1: and she is just like talking about you know, she's
Speaker 1: talking about her relationship with Colson and how like, you know,
Speaker 1: she explains that he came in was essentially her savior
Speaker 1: and then she became she went from being a baddie
Speaker 1: to a goodie because of his influence. He decided not
Speaker 1: to kill her or whatever, and you know, sort of
Speaker 1: took her in and retrained her to be an avenger.
Speaker 1: So her, you know, the only information we really get
Speaker 1: to know about her. We are learning about her, and
Speaker 1: it sounds and it's like suggests an interesting background story
Speaker 1: that's worth exploring, but we really only find out about
Speaker 1: how a man saved her and how she you know,
Speaker 1: she is internally indebted to him. Um, which comes back
Speaker 1: towards the end of the movie and it's like that's
Speaker 1: you know, if that is how the story goes. It's
Speaker 1: these movies are always tricky because they tie back to
Speaker 1: like baseline stories went back when women truly didn't count
Speaker 1: in any meaningful way. But it's like they're there's there's
Speaker 1: more there, and we only really hear who she is
Speaker 1: in relationship to Coulson or that's how I felt about it, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then if that is the storyline for one of
Speaker 1: the female characters, fine, if we have several other female
Speaker 1: characters who we learn what their origin story is, but
Speaker 1: we don't, we just have Black Widow, and then that's
Speaker 1: our like one way that she's characterized. Um, we gotta
Speaker 1: take another quick break, but we're gonna come back for more.
Speaker 1: Don't you worry. We are back. Um, Annie, I feel like,
Speaker 1: what what? What are your thoughts on all this? It's
Speaker 1: one of those things where kind of like you're saying,
Speaker 1: I am very conflicted about a lot of it. Because
Speaker 1: I was reading preparing for this, I was reading up
Speaker 1: about people's thoughts on Black Widow, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people said, um, she is this strong, badass female character.
Speaker 1: There aren't enough female characters, but at least like she
Speaker 1: is a strong one. We've talked I've definitely done an
Speaker 1: episode on and we talked about this, I think when
Speaker 1: you were on stuff when I never told you, but
Speaker 1: like she's never included in any like t shirts with
Speaker 1: the Avengers on them, She's not on their toys, she's
Speaker 1: not included in that stuff. And it started like a
Speaker 1: kind of a whole Twitter kerfuffle. Um. Yeah, And it
Speaker 1: is strange because that suggests to me that then she's
Speaker 1: only there to be the woman that is there, but
Speaker 1: she's not like truly part of the team, or at
Speaker 1: least she's so tokenized. And then yeah, which is frustrating
Speaker 1: because it's like it's clear that there's a lot, there's
Speaker 1: so much to the character that no one is willing
Speaker 1: to or like the company has just not been willing
Speaker 1: to explore. And and and now especially with Captain Marvel, it's
Speaker 1: so like they Captain Marvel as of this recording just
Speaker 1: crossed a billion dollars and like there is clear, like
Speaker 1: demonstrable value in including women and black right, Well, that's
Speaker 1: the thing. So of the kind of main characters in
Speaker 1: these ensemble and see you movies here, the people who
Speaker 1: don't get their own movies or haven't as of this,
Speaker 1: you know recording Black Widow, Wanda, the Scarlet Witch, Falcon, Hawkeye, Rhods,
Speaker 1: and Vision. Four of the six of these are either
Speaker 1: women or people of color. The exceptions are Hawkeye, that's
Speaker 1: Jeremy Runner. Uh he, I mean we get skip it
Speaker 1: and then Vision also we get his origin story within
Speaker 1: the like I feel like that's skippable too. But the
Speaker 1: fact that the large majority of the characters who aren't
Speaker 1: given their own franchises their own movies are either women
Speaker 1: or people of color, So that is you know, very
Speaker 1: telling and then pointed. And then we find out, you know,
Speaker 1: through Black Panther and Captain Marvel movies that have both
Speaker 1: made a billion or more dollars worldwide, that if you
Speaker 1: do give movies to women and people of color, people
Speaker 1: people want to go see those. They arguably want to
Speaker 1: see it more than they've ever wanted to see. Any
Speaker 1: of the Chris is literally any of the Chris is yes, yep.
Speaker 1: And that's why these movies are worth talking about. Because
Speaker 1: the m c U is the highest grossing franchise of
Speaker 1: all time. It's earned eighteen billion dollars worldwide across is
Speaker 1: it twenty eight films. It's something, it's one more in development. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: jeez um, is there any sign of them stopping? Would
Speaker 1: they be willing to consider it? I mean, with the
Speaker 1: money they're breaking in, probably no stopping it cool cool, cool? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And to be fair, these movies have evolved a bit
Speaker 1: from say The Spider Man two Days, when you know,
Speaker 1: the women in those movies are being captured, they're helpless,
Speaker 1: they need to be saved all the time. But that
Speaker 1: does not mean that this franchise is without its many flaws, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like it's definitely evolving. I think
Speaker 1: that there's a weird trope in superhero movies that I've like,
Speaker 1: slowly the more I've been forced to watch, picked up
Speaker 1: on where there is there is like this kind of
Speaker 1: exciting number of like you've got a lot of women
Speaker 1: in stem, You've got a lot of women in high positions.
Speaker 1: Because I think that like these people making the movies
Speaker 1: understand at least that just damseling a woman in a
Speaker 1: movie now is no longer acceptable, Like we want to
Speaker 1: know what she does, we want to know who she is.
Speaker 1: But there's sort of this like double edged sort of
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of women I'm thinking of, like
Speaker 1: Natalie Portman's character in Thor or something like that, where
Speaker 1: I think she is a she's a woman in stem
Speaker 1: she's very qualified, but she really still only serves the
Speaker 1: purpose of a love interest. But they look, but she's
Speaker 1: really smart though. Also in Avengers, they show a picture
Speaker 1: of her and rather than like, rather than including her
Speaker 1: character in the movie, we just see the picture. We
Speaker 1: get an explanation that she was sent away to be
Speaker 1: kept safe. Basically, sure, well, didn't she like not want
Speaker 1: to be in the m c U anymore? Wasn't she
Speaker 1: just like, I mean, maybe after that though, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, Oh so maybe she wasn't quite over it yet.
Speaker 1: Damn it. Give Portman her Portman books. When I was
Speaker 1: doing the research for this and I was compiling, like
Speaker 1: all the characters, I noticed of the women that are involved,
Speaker 1: there is a lot of white women with red hair.
Speaker 1: Because it's like when you brought up Spider Man too,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, Mary Jane is one as well.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, damn because black widow often her hair color
Speaker 1: changes throughout the franchise, but she often has changing their hair. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's our main thing about us that's how I define myself.
Speaker 1: I did find an article that said, um, I think
Speaker 1: it's from Vulture that Black Widow got the third most
Speaker 1: screen time in Avengers and she had the most uninterrupted
Speaker 1: dialogue of any of the six Avengers. Interesting, that's great news.
Speaker 1: I like there there are like, especially watching the first one,
Speaker 1: there were certain things where you're like, Okay, jossmed I'm
Speaker 1: glad you're here, because that is I mean, that does
Speaker 1: sound like Unfortunately, that's like an accomplishment, like no one's
Speaker 1: interrupting her, Like that's awesome. Yeah, that's something. Another thing
Speaker 1: that's worth noting about her character is that in the
Speaker 1: first movie, she goes to recruit Bruce Banner to bring
Speaker 1: him into the Avengers team essentially, and this will mark
Speaker 1: the start of a friendship that laid evolves into a
Speaker 1: romance as the movie goes on, because you can't have
Speaker 1: a lady felt making her be with a man, right.
Speaker 1: Another another problem that they seem to be fixing with
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel. Yes, yep, there's a lot of air like
Speaker 1: things that I noticed with the Black Widowed character that
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, at least they're trying to course
Speaker 1: correct that in future movies. Another thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk briefly about is the men's powers versus the women's powers.
Speaker 1: Especially early in the franchise. The male heroes usually have
Speaker 1: some sort of super strength or high tech equipment or suit,
Speaker 1: or they're literally a god like some they're shooting out
Speaker 1: lass out of their penises, which I thought was a bit.
Speaker 1: They've got these like awesome abilities, right, and then if
Speaker 1: we're looking at Black Widow, she does not have any
Speaker 1: out of this world aility or tech really because Iron
Speaker 1: Man has his suit, Captain America has his shield, plus
Speaker 1: he had this like serum that made him a super
Speaker 1: person or has a hammer. He's a god. Bruce Banner
Speaker 1: turns into the Hulk. And then Black Widow she she
Speaker 1: fights really well, she's a good fighter. She sometimes has guns,
Speaker 1: and if like that's a canonical issue with that character
Speaker 1: within the comic books, okay, but then we need more
Speaker 1: than one woman there, because you know, like that's you know,
Speaker 1: like what you described as crazy disproportionate where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if there is a character who's a great fighter, who's
Speaker 1: a woman amazing, but we need more than that, and
Speaker 1: there's so many like like was drowning in listicles of Marvel,
Speaker 1: like female Marvel characters who could have been introduced into
Speaker 1: these movies that never were um for you know, I
Speaker 1: mean as much as I feel like people fall on
Speaker 1: the like, well, the characters were written in a different time,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of hard, and it's like, well, there
Speaker 1: are still people making decisions of which characters are brought
Speaker 1: into the universe and which aren't. And it's mostly men.
Speaker 1: And some of the men they're bringing in our fucking
Speaker 1: bores and they're not like Captain America, just a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of like they're like, we're gonna hire
Speaker 1: every actor named Chris and women can't vote like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this changes whenever Wanda is introduced in Age of Ultron,
Speaker 1: because she does have these awesome that's great telekinesis mind
Speaker 1: controlling powers and she she does damage like super powerful.
Speaker 1: But in this first movie especially is like Wolf, all
Speaker 1: the men get to be awesome. The woman kicks in
Speaker 1: her leather suit, I mean, and at least she is good, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, she does damage. I was glad that we
Speaker 1: got to see her fighting, we got to see her
Speaker 1: do damage and we get to see her get result.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of the bare minimum you can ask
Speaker 1: of a superhero in a supermo hero movie. She is
Speaker 1: the one who figures out to how to close the portal. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I do want to forgun out that you both
Speaker 1: kind of did this. There's a running joke that everyone
Speaker 1: forgets Hawkeye. Yeah, you didn't mention him then, and earlier
Speaker 1: you were saying Colson, it was actually hawk Eye that
Speaker 1: she was like trying to he was the good guy
Speaker 1: that turned right. Oh damn, really, you're just cracking me up.
Speaker 1: Jeremy Renner is first of all misogynists who sucks, and
Speaker 1: he's also failed stand up comedian, and he's also a
Speaker 1: really terrible actor. I can't think of one thing he's
Speaker 1: good at. Um, So that's that's maybe that's why everyone
Speaker 1: forgets him because he sucks you. Yeah. Um, we have
Speaker 1: to wrap up pretty shortly. There were a couple other
Speaker 1: just like quick things I wanted to mention that we
Speaker 1: see in the later movies. So I'll just kind of
Speaker 1: go through like a list of problematic ship that happens
Speaker 1: where there's some like fridging that happens in Age of
Speaker 1: Ultron where Dr Helen Show one of the only women
Speaker 1: of Color in the movie gets killed to advance the story,
Speaker 1: Black Widow gets captured by Ultron and Bruce Banner kind
Speaker 1: of has to come and rescue her, and then they
Speaker 1: briefly consider let's run away together because we're so we love,
Speaker 1: and then they're like, wait a minute, no, we should
Speaker 1: stay in fight, and then oh god. Iron Man has
Speaker 1: a horrible line where he's like, hey, you two, you
Speaker 1: better not be playing hide the zucchini yause There's also
Speaker 1: that line at the end of The Avengers where like
Speaker 1: Tony Stark just comes up with these this like homophobic
Speaker 1: light zinger where he's anyone kiss me, Like no, gross.
Speaker 1: There's a couple no homo moments at the end of
Speaker 1: every movie and really yeah, at the end of Age
Speaker 1: of Ultron, don Cheetle saying to I iron Man is like, hey,
Speaker 1: you think I can't hold my own? And iron Man's like,
Speaker 1: if you get this all, hold your own, which I
Speaker 1: guess is like I'll hold your day, and then uh,
Speaker 1: don'cho is like yeah to make it weird, and then later, um,
Speaker 1: I mean that's weird. That's a weird thing to say
Speaker 1: to your to someone, and the later Black Widow is
Speaker 1: like to Captain America and Iron Man something like oh
Speaker 1: you guys done gazing into each other's eyes or something
Speaker 1: like that. It's all just like, so there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of that. Um yeah, we don't really have time
Speaker 1: to cover a lot of the other stuff that happens
Speaker 1: um in the in the later movies of the franchise,
Speaker 1: but kind of the last thing I want to say
Speaker 1: is great that Captain Marvel is now going to be
Speaker 1: introduced in to the ensemble. However, to me, it feels
Speaker 1: like it's too little, too late, Like they had so
Speaker 1: many movies, so many opportunities to introduce more dynamic, well
Speaker 1: developed female characters who are doing things to contribute to
Speaker 1: the narratives, and they just missed a lot of those opportunities.
Speaker 1: And it's great that Captain Marvel has made a billion dollars,
Speaker 1: it's great that we have this new character who's going
Speaker 1: to be introduced into Avengers Endgame. But again it's just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well what about the other It took like seventeen movies
Speaker 1: to like include women and people of color in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way or something crazy like that, So it's just like, well,
Speaker 1: taking that long to course correct, and it you know,
Speaker 1: it does sort of track with what movie going audiences
Speaker 1: were demanding based on like the beginning of the m
Speaker 1: c U going up to now. But it's yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally agree, which unfortunately I don't know really what the
Speaker 1: resolution of that is because it no one's going to
Speaker 1: be like, well, scrap it will start over from this time,
Speaker 1: we'll treat We'll treat everyone fairly and make it more
Speaker 1: like that's just not going to happen. Uh So I
Speaker 1: am glad that the course correction that is happening is happening.
Speaker 1: I hope it will continue to happen. I hope that
Speaker 1: uh we can get a non franchise movie into a
Speaker 1: movie theater. Ever, again wishful thinking. Does this movie pass
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test? I know, no, women don't even interact
Speaker 1: or meet. It does not get much better than that.
Speaker 1: In the other movies of the franchise. We do have
Speaker 1: a little bit more female interaction, But Scarlett Johnson ever
Speaker 1: even heard of Kobe Smolder's I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like if she was asking in here to
Speaker 1: be she'd be like whom. But yeah, the Avengers does
Speaker 1: not pass. So let's let's rate the movie on our nipples.
Speaker 1: The first Avengers. Yeah, let's gok with the first one.
Speaker 1: I'll give it a one and a half. The fact
Speaker 1: that we do see a woman who kicks ass. You know,
Speaker 1: she is making important moves in the story. She uh any,
Speaker 1: like you said, she's the one who figures out how
Speaker 1: how to stop the or how to close the portal.
Speaker 1: But the way that she is characterized or not, because again,
Speaker 1: what's her personality. I barely know. The way that she
Speaker 1: is just very clearly you know, the token female character.
Speaker 1: The way that she is pretty hyper sexualized, especially with
Speaker 1: the you know, pussy slam wrapped my legs around the
Speaker 1: bad guy's face, and the skin tight outfits and the
Speaker 1: you know, like quippy that I mean, everyone's got some
Speaker 1: pretty horrendous quips and all shores canonical to the genre,
Speaker 1: but like hers are always you know, feminine quips, right
Speaker 1: like wait you know. Yeah. So it's a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction from where we were with earlier superhero movies,
Speaker 1: but we had a long way to go, and we
Speaker 1: are slowly course correcting. But you know, it's it's not
Speaker 1: great what we're seeing, at least in this in this
Speaker 1: first Avengers movie. So yeah, one and a half. I
Speaker 1: guess one to Scarlett Johansson and my half nipple will
Speaker 1: go to Goop Young Group, the website, Goop dot com,
Speaker 1: the business. Everyone check it out. I'm kidding, I would
Speaker 1: never do not check it out. Um okay, I will
Speaker 1: also go with one and a half. I feel like
Speaker 1: we're given some We're really thrown some scraps in this
Speaker 1: movie in terms of like female characters who are interesting
Speaker 1: and it seems like there is a lot to them,
Speaker 1: and then we proceed to find out nothing about them
Speaker 1: that isn't directly in correlation to a man who gets
Speaker 1: far more context or already has existing movies in this universe. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm glad they're there her uh, and I'm glad that
Speaker 1: future movies have begun to course correct, not really for
Speaker 1: any of the characters we see in Avengers in the
Speaker 1: first Avengers unfortunately, um, but in a more general way.
Speaker 1: Um that did? I mean? You know, John Josh Sweden
Speaker 1: is now a polarizing figure that I honestly have not
Speaker 1: interacted with his work or the coverage around that enough
Speaker 1: to have a strong opinion on. But you know, he
Speaker 1: has been known in the past an advocate for women
Speaker 1: within his work at very least, So I sort of
Speaker 1: was hoping for for a little bit more uh in
Speaker 1: this movie, because you know, he really tooths his own
Speaker 1: horn about it, and it's like, well, he didn't interrupt
Speaker 1: the one female character, so that's something, and you could
Speaker 1: have delivered on that way more. And we know that
Speaker 1: he's capable of more based on his other work. And
Speaker 1: of course there's like a million producers in Marvel and
Speaker 1: the patriarch, like than patriarchy in general, to push back against.
Speaker 1: It's not like he got the call of everything, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's it. It sucks to see like even
Speaker 1: one of the biggest advocates allegedly for for women in
Speaker 1: in narratives like this still was not able to get
Speaker 1: that much in uh. So I'll go, I'll go a
Speaker 1: nipple and a half and I'm giving both to Alfred
Speaker 1: Molina because he should be in the m cun't talk
Speaker 1: the main villain. That's bullshit. Legal reasons, legal reasons, get
Speaker 1: the man his check. He shouldn't have time to do
Speaker 1: the Bechtel cast. He should he should be content on
Speaker 1: every single and all of them. Anyway, do you say
Speaker 1: for a rating, I guess I'll agree I UM. I
Speaker 1: actually recently did watch the old Sam Ramy Spider Man's
Speaker 1: for this like really ridiculous project I'm working on, UM
Speaker 1: and I was shocked at how like I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: it in a while, but it was the portrayal of
Speaker 1: Mary Jane was so um bad yea yeah, And so
Speaker 1: watching that recently and then seeing the Avengers, I do
Speaker 1: think it was a step in the right direction. I
Speaker 1: do think like she's smart. She's actually the first Avenger
Speaker 1: to like sign on, and she kind of helps bring
Speaker 1: the group together. She's an important figure to it, figures
Speaker 1: out how to close the portal. But yeah, she doesn't
Speaker 1: have the outside movie, she doesn't have the same story.
Speaker 1: And also yeah, I was watching it and some of
Speaker 1: the camera angles, I'm like, this is this is more
Speaker 1: sexualized than it really needs to be. Ok. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which which I'm sure has something to do with the
Speaker 1: behind the scenes makeup of the crew, which is most
Speaker 1: of the major players in this movie. The cinematographer is
Speaker 1: a man, written and directed by a man. Uh. There
Speaker 1: is a shout out to Lisa E. Lassic. Uh, there's one.
Speaker 1: There's one of the two editors on this movie is
Speaker 1: a woman. So shout out to Lisa Hell yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I give I'll give Black Widow, I'll give my
Speaker 1: Nickel two. At the end, Um, there's this I don't
Speaker 1: know her name, but she's an actor that plays that.
Speaker 1: She does the voice acting for one of my favorite
Speaker 1: video games ever, Ellie from the Last of Us. So
Speaker 1: shout out to you. I don't know your name, but
Speaker 1: I love you. Well, Annie, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. Sorry we didn't have more time to go
Speaker 1: into a deeper dive, but we're so happy to How
Speaker 1: do you Where can people follow you online? What would
Speaker 1: you like to plug? People can follow me. You can
Speaker 1: find me on saver podcast. So that's s a v
Speaker 1: O R for international listeners. Um, you can find us
Speaker 1: online at saver pod. Across all of the social media's
Speaker 1: you can listen to the podcast. Please do stuff I've
Speaker 1: Never told you. It's a bit more complicated, but so
Speaker 1: it's at Mom's Stuff podcast on Twitter and at Stuff
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You on Instagram. Please check that out
Speaker 1: as well. And my name is easy A and N
Speaker 1: E y. If you type in Annie Reese, easy to
Speaker 1: find because no one spells it that way. And that's
Speaker 1: how on social media and thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. Any time you want to talk about this,
Speaker 1: I will come back awesome. Yeah, you can follow us
Speaker 1: at all the all the spots at Bechtel Cast. We've
Speaker 1: got our te public store from merch, We've got our
Speaker 1: Patreon ak Matron. Five dollars a month gets you too
Speaker 1: bonus episodes plus the entire backlog. So over forty we've
Speaker 1: crossed the fort and and and April is Portman July.
Speaker 1: So we covered the theme is Portman July. Although it's April,
Speaker 1: it's complicated. You have to join our community to understand.
Speaker 1: If you're feeling como, then fork over five dollars any like.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to tell you. So if you didn't,
Speaker 1: if you missed Natalie Portman's character in the Avengers movies,
Speaker 1: you can. You can hear us talk about her in
Speaker 1: guard in State and Annihilation to identical movies. Thanks for listening, everybody,
Speaker 1: I guess go and see Avengers Infinity, war Man's Dame
Speaker 1: and game Endgame. Just kidding. We're very invested in this
Speaker 1: um and to everyone considering jumping into our munchtions, do
Speaker 1: not talk to you later, Okay. Bye,