Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte.
Speaker 1: My name Jamie Loveday, and we are here to talk
Speaker 1: about the representation of women in movies. That's what our
Speaker 1: podcast is about. Hey, Caitlin, what Jamie? In case you
Speaker 1: haven't gleaned it in the past three years, but I
Speaker 1: didn't give you a a reference point for what I
Speaker 1: need it. I just every once in a while, just
Speaker 1: a jolt of adrenaline to the system. The Bechdel test
Speaker 1: is never heard of it. I well, then start leaving
Speaker 1: your one star reviews now, just kidding, Please don't. Only
Speaker 1: m r as do that, and they're very good at it. Uh.
Speaker 1: The Bechtel test is a media metric invented by cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alison Actel, sometimes also called the Bechtel Wallace test, in
Speaker 1: which there has to be a scene in a piece
Speaker 1: of media where two female identifying characters with names talk
Speaker 1: to each other for about something other than a man
Speaker 1: for more than two lines of dialogue. Wow, I can't believe.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this test before. I was holding
Speaker 1: in a burp, literally that whole sentence, and I feel
Speaker 1: like if you rewind fifteen seconds you'll hear it. You've
Speaker 1: been burping a lot recently. I've gone full Durst, I
Speaker 1: really have. I don't know what's going on. I'm just
Speaker 1: burping and telling lies. I can't stop. Well, I think
Speaker 1: that burp conversation passed the Becktel tests, so we're after
Speaker 1: a good start. Thank you. I mean I did mention er.
Speaker 1: I mean I I think of Robert Durst as kind
Speaker 1: of a genderless He's more of an idea than a man.
Speaker 1: I think. Um so it does pass. If we are
Speaker 1: saying that Robert Turst is an ideology, well he's sort
Speaker 1: of like a cloud of gas. I see him much
Speaker 1: like a burp. There you go, there you go, And
Speaker 1: that's why he's so susceptible to them. I'm glad we
Speaker 1: unpacked that. Um So, Yeah, this is the Bechdel cast. Uh.
Speaker 1: We are. We are covering a much requested today. We've
Speaker 1: been getting this request since we started. The damn cast
Speaker 1: took us about three years, but we we got there.
Speaker 1: We got there. Today we're covering the First Wives Club
Speaker 1: and here to join us in our conversation a hilarious
Speaker 1: comedian whose album called Major comes out on August sewod
Speaker 1: and you also may remember her from our Butch Cassidy
Speaker 1: and the Sundance Kid episode and our episode on the notebook.
Speaker 1: It's Caitlin Guilt. That's mel It's it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1: If you heard a strange sound in your audio, unless
Speaker 1: that's neatly clipped, it was my dog licking my nose
Speaker 1: a minute ago. Major. Margaret hot lives so Lin the
Speaker 1: titular dog from my album. Yes, and what a cuteie
Speaker 1: she really is. She's really thriving today. I saw do
Speaker 1: some tricks anyone. Well, not to brag. She's easy to
Speaker 1: distract with a treat and that that really begs compliance.
Speaker 1: It works. It just works. Tiny piece of meat and
Speaker 1: she'll do whatever I need, which is good because I
Speaker 1: forgot her leash. What a terrible dog owner. It's a
Speaker 1: key thing. You need to take your dog out of
Speaker 1: the house. Evidence about it though that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: guess this is just the dynamic. I do leave her
Speaker 1: rough Alice as much as I can, because she's honestly better.
Speaker 1: She's a strong independent woman. She is a strong independent woman.
Speaker 1: She knows what she wants and what she wants us
Speaker 1: to know where I am and if she's attached to
Speaker 1: a leash, she knows, so the off leash nous it
Speaker 1: makes her pull to attention. Is this podcast about my dog?
Speaker 1: Because unless you stop me now, it is about to
Speaker 1: be apologize my dog. My dog is a woman hater. Yes,
Speaker 1: the one time he was allowed in this podcast studio,
Speaker 1: he shoot through one of the audio cables and d
Speaker 1: platform the left once again. Oh my god, that is hilarious.
Speaker 1: I have to I really need to meet this guy.
Speaker 1: I only on through Instagram and I am he's he's
Speaker 1: a red deal. I'll get bit I'm in. Didn't he
Speaker 1: also ship and piss on the floor the last time
Speaker 1: he was here? He did ship and piss and truth
Speaker 1: or an audio cable and and but he did the
Speaker 1: day he was here, the day Alfred Molina was here,
Speaker 1: and he behaved until literally the second offered Mollina left
Speaker 1: and then he shipped and pissed again. Honestly, wasn't everybody
Speaker 1: shopping and pissing. Though as soon as alf from Lena left,
Speaker 1: it just everybody's body evacuated. He was just doing what
Speaker 1: we were all thinking. That's true. So the First Wives Club?
Speaker 1: What is your history with your relationship with the movie?
Speaker 1: I saw it in the theaters with my mom, who
Speaker 1: is herself a first wife. So it goes way back,
Speaker 1: goes way back. It's fun to revisit with fresh eyes. Certainly, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what about you, I'd never seen this movie. I feel
Speaker 1: like this movie kind of made like has become more
Speaker 1: popular again in the past even year or so. I
Speaker 1: remember that Ariana Grande did a bunch of First Wives
Speaker 1: Club like homage with her last album. There's like moments
Speaker 1: in her video where she and her too I think
Speaker 1: producers or they're singing on the track and they're all
Speaker 1: wearing the white check gets in the whole bit, and
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was excited to see it, and man,
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. What a romp? What a wrong?
Speaker 1: I'm a fan. It really was. And it starts off
Speaker 1: in such a dark place that you're like, where what
Speaker 1: and then it just becomes a romp so quickly. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite things in movies just period is what
Speaker 1: actor did the most with their one day on set,
Speaker 1: because there is no question that Stocker Channing was on
Speaker 1: that set uh day singular day, and with that day
Speaker 1: to rise to the occasion in the moment. You don't
Speaker 1: have the full month to shoot, you ain't hanging around
Speaker 1: with the ladies the whole time. You're in your out.
Speaker 1: I bet it was months apart from the other three
Speaker 1: ladies were doing the filming, had nothing to do, totally
Speaker 1: different team, like director on the phone from actually New
Speaker 1: York because this was in l A. It was just
Speaker 1: an incredible I love spotting those performances. I mean turned
Speaker 1: to scream if you really need the entry level understanding
Speaker 1: of the value of having a star on set one day,
Speaker 1: Drew Barry more twist with having her and it's sleeve
Speaker 1: Schreiber and scream three. I forget he doesn't scream too,
Speaker 1: But it's so good when you have someone brilliant on
Speaker 1: set for one day. What they turned out one of
Speaker 1: the best scenes of the movie. It really is the gravitas,
Speaker 1: the sadness the folks. She dies by suicide and that
Speaker 1: is the wild in sighting incident and perhaps confusing to
Speaker 1: say what ensues is a romp, but it's simply the truth.
Speaker 1: It is true. Yeah, alright, what's your history? Cabin. I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen this movie for the first time until about
Speaker 1: a year ago because it's one of those movies that
Speaker 1: I knew we had gotten a lot of request for
Speaker 1: and I figured we would do it some day, so
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I'll just check it out early.
Speaker 1: You know, it's familiar out loud. Yeah, So I watched
Speaker 1: it that one time about a year ago, and it
Speaker 1: was like, this certainly is a romp, and uh, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I hadn't seen it before. I
Speaker 1: guess I ten when it came out, so you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't necessarily the target demographic. But are you the
Speaker 1: child of a first wife? No? My mom is uh yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there's no easy I've realized as I asked that question,
Speaker 1: because I'll tell you whatever you want to know about
Speaker 1: my family and it's horrible, but I do realize that
Speaker 1: other people don't as often, so as that question tumbled
Speaker 1: out of my mouth. So tell me about your parental
Speaker 1: marital they are married, should they be open questions? What's up? Gloria?
Speaker 1: She listens to the podcast anyway my mom as I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess she she is a first wife. But also
Speaker 1: it was, I mean, she's a first wife, but there
Speaker 1: hasn't been a second one yet. But she's no longer
Speaker 1: a wife. That's a first wife. She's a first wife.
Speaker 1: She's a first wife. And uh, she's she's I would say,
Speaker 1: she's medium, bitter about it. Yeah, pretty healthy, It wasn't
Speaker 1: it was, she's not. I don't think she's in the
Speaker 1: club quite. We're in sour Orange territory, not to full women. No, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they talk the friends. Yeah, So should I just dive
Speaker 1: into the recap and then we'll go from there. Let's
Speaker 1: do it alright. So we open in nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 1: There are four best friends who are graduating from college.
Speaker 1: They are you a soundtrack here, like a little like.
Speaker 1: But I can't get my mouth guitar to work with
Speaker 1: a sixties sound. I can't, I can't. I don't have
Speaker 1: it my all along the watch Tower isn't isn't playing
Speaker 1: right now? I was about to come in with some
Speaker 1: Austin Powers music, but that's all sudden. It's really hard
Speaker 1: with your mouth. Does it turns out all right? So
Speaker 1: the friends are Cynthia, Annie, Alice, and Brenda, and then
Speaker 1: we cut to the nineties and that's the end of
Speaker 1: the beginning. Just like the Right this is this movie
Speaker 1: is basically Austin Powers basically. Yes. So we're now in
Speaker 1: the nineties and Cynthia is distraught and it's implied that
Speaker 1: she dies by suicide. Then we cut to Annie. That's
Speaker 1: Diane Keaton's character. She has been reconnecting with her husband Aaron,
Speaker 1: who she's separated from, which makes her daughter Chris disappointed
Speaker 1: because she hates her dad. Can relate personally see comments
Speaker 1: that they made five minutes ago. And Diane Keaton is
Speaker 1: really Diane Keaton. Actually where her name is Annie again?
Speaker 1: Annie Hall? Oh my god, Yeah, I'm like laid on
Speaker 1: thick white on. Yeah. I do think she has to
Speaker 1: be named either Annie or Diana or she won't turn around.
Speaker 1: She's like, won't her name was supposed to be. Couldn't
Speaker 1: get her engaged. She's brilliant, she's so good at she's
Speaker 1: really I do like to think of her as an
Speaker 1: inattentive cat like creature. You're just like she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure she's from the same plane. She's
Speaker 1: one of those are this where I'm like, you are
Speaker 1: a vessel for an energy from far beyond. But it
Speaker 1: is the most nervous energy I've ever seen to try
Speaker 1: to communicate with with humans on the planet Earth. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: This is a great part for her, though. She screams
Speaker 1: like seven times and each one is perfect, and I
Speaker 1: feel like it starts early. I think screaming happens really early.
Speaker 1: It's too early, right, such a thing. Then we see
Speaker 1: Elise Goldie Hawn's character. She is an actress who is
Speaker 1: obsessed with trying to look young so that she can
Speaker 1: keep getting cast in Hollywood movies. Uh. And then we
Speaker 1: see Brenda bet Midler's character. She has a son who's
Speaker 1: about to have a bar mitzvah. She's neatly summarized as
Speaker 1: a Brenda. She's a Brenda. Yeah, she's a Brenda. And
Speaker 1: then they all find out about their friend Cynthia's suicide
Speaker 1: and the presumed motivation behind it, which was that Cynthia's
Speaker 1: ex husband this like successful Wall Street dude just remarried
Speaker 1: a younger woman. So Annie, Alice, and Brenda all reconnect
Speaker 1: at Cynthia's funeral. So then they all get lunch together,
Speaker 1: and Elice and Brenda talk about how both of their
Speaker 1: husbands left them for younger women, and then Annie is
Speaker 1: ill like, well, I'm still married, but we are separated.
Speaker 1: And then they keep hanging out. They're getting more and
Speaker 1: more drunk, and they're lamenting about how we're in full
Speaker 1: on boogie white lady unche We're on top shelf daytime drunk.
Speaker 1: This is it's very specific. It's no way it's past
Speaker 1: two pm. At the height of this scene. It does
Speaker 1: look like they're closing the restaurant, but it looks like
Speaker 1: they're closing the restaurant for lunch to dinner service. And
Speaker 1: it's very right out for that many glasses on the table,
Speaker 1: and they're just, you know, lamenting about how everyone sees
Speaker 1: them as being too old and stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: and Diane Keaton's mom keeps insulting her for this reason.
Speaker 1: Oh no spring Chicken, Diane. And that actress, I forget
Speaker 1: her name, but she's so good. She's like, oh eileenckt.
Speaker 1: Diane Keaton's mom is terrific from beginning to end. And
Speaker 1: she's one of those perfect old ladies whose lips are
Speaker 1: just lipstick, Like I'm not sure there's anything under theneath.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect flesh tone, but she's painted on this
Speaker 1: majestic mouth. She's incredible. She's every scene she steals it
Speaker 1: so and she's been trying to make some personal progress
Speaker 1: in therapy. Alice is in the middle of divorce proceedings
Speaker 1: from Victor Garber, and then she later finds out that
Speaker 1: she's being considered for a mother role in a movie.
Speaker 1: This is around the point where I realized that Goldie
Speaker 1: Hans character is basically just Jenna Moroney. When she freaks
Speaker 1: out about being about auditioning to be a mother, You're like,
Speaker 1: this character is genera Moroney toned down a little right.
Speaker 1: She used to be married to Victor Garber a k
Speaker 1: A our king are the hero of Titanic really which
Speaker 1: and this really made us to realize, as we just
Speaker 1: discussed that Victor Garber more often than not plays a villain,
Speaker 1: which is crazy because his best and most prominent role
Speaker 1: as being a little Sweetie Bias who who wanted there
Speaker 1: to be enough lifeboats but was over rule and then
Speaker 1: he because that happens, he sacrifices his hot doesn't make
Speaker 1: him abilla that he wasn't strong enough to get more
Speaker 1: lifeboats on the biggest boat like that. He was a
Speaker 1: complicit bastard and I'm glad he's dead, weak knead. Okay, anyway, so, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing all these women in their normal worlds.
Speaker 1: And we see Brenda and she confronts her ex husband
Speaker 1: in a store, being like, I need money, you suck
Speaker 1: morty and then his new wife Shelly. His new wife
Speaker 1: Shelley played by Sarah Jessica Parker shows up and then
Speaker 1: they they boughty shame each other for a while. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I mean this movie has thanks all women
Speaker 1: under thirty five are completely brain dead. I think it's
Speaker 1: a fun fantasy. No, like I've I don't even I
Speaker 1: don't hate it. But it really is a rule with
Speaker 1: no exception. Yeah, and unless you're a lesbian lesbian, a
Speaker 1: college educated lesbian is the exception to the rule. Always, always,
Speaker 1: in every case. And then and his husband asks her
Speaker 1: to dinner and she assumes that it's because he's decided
Speaker 1: to recommit to their marriage, but actual kind of issues
Speaker 1: and over that thing about me poisoning his food. That's okay,
Speaker 1: she slipped that in there, and that was a weird
Speaker 1: throw a joke. It's perfect. You're like, it's got to
Speaker 1: come back, right, and that just doesn't well. She spends
Speaker 1: the whole time just being like his commitment issues, you know,
Speaker 1: his fear of of connection and you know, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: he got over those, but honey, the fear that you
Speaker 1: were poisoning his food, he's not coming, He's not. That's
Speaker 1: on the other side. Maybe he's a prequel to the
Speaker 1: phantom thread, just sandom thread. Maybe that's he was into.
Speaker 1: The doesn't the most brilliant advertising after it was actually dangerous,
Speaker 1: it was sexy. She assumes we're going to get back together,
Speaker 1: but instead he knows is that he wants a divorce.
Speaker 1: And then Annie's therapist has sex with her, which is
Speaker 1: the meanest thing anyone can take. The rope. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: the hotel room. I'm sorry that's happy to you and
Speaker 1: talking over that, but I did want to point out
Speaker 1: that there's one room per robe, per hotel room, and
Speaker 1: he's wearing it. Do your meanest thing someone can do
Speaker 1: immediately before saying I've been cheating on you for three
Speaker 1: months is have sex with you and then just be
Speaker 1: like just one of one last taste and then like anyways,
Speaker 1: I will him for eating you out as implied, but
Speaker 1: I'm not happy about the circumstances birthday, Caitlin. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: don't you at least that, but I still think. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she finds out that he's been cheating on her
Speaker 1: with her therapist, Dr. Leslie Rosen played by Marcia gay
Speaker 1: Harden because she walks in and it sounds like a
Speaker 1: wondering podcast. The gals get together again and they're, you know,
Speaker 1: all furious that their ex husbands have taken them for
Speaker 1: granted and never appreciated all they did for them. So
Speaker 1: the women form the First Wives Club, that's the name
Speaker 1: of the movie. Here's where it gets wild. Did I
Speaker 1: think going into this movie they would get office space?
Speaker 1: Did I think that they would make an LLC for
Speaker 1: the First Wives Club and a super clip party logo? Oh?
Speaker 1: I loved the full door like Nickelodeon style logo they
Speaker 1: there at the end. There was That was when I
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, that's a huge office they've got. And
Speaker 1: they hired in the Goldie Home just own. Yes, there
Speaker 1: is the privilege. The youth of privilege of this movie
Speaker 1: is wild. Uh. But then at the end, the husbands
Speaker 1: are making out checks to the First Wives Club, which
Speaker 1: means they've incorporated in some way, it's on their taxes. Wild, yes,
Speaker 1: very wild. So they formed this club and they come
Speaker 1: up with a plan to sabotage their ex husband's lives
Speaker 1: and relationships. So that's their new full time job. I
Speaker 1: love it and I love it. They're also just like
Speaker 1: I feel like, it's rare to find a movie quite this,
Speaker 1: like empoweringly petty. It's just like a full on fantasy, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we all wish we had limitless money for our various
Speaker 1: revenge projects. The money comes from the revenge. What a beautiful,
Speaker 1: built in in real pinedom energy going on. I expect
Speaker 1: for getting into it right, but oh yeah, we're getting
Speaker 1: We're getting a Goldie's plan. I think Goldie plan is
Speaker 1: my favorite plan. I love. I just love which. I
Speaker 1: love it. I love it. So first they ask Annie's
Speaker 1: daughter Chris, the sensible lesbian who's under three five, to
Speaker 1: get information resumably hard to tell with the lesbian um,
Speaker 1: to get information on Annie's ex husband Aaron, and then
Speaker 1: at least starts repossessing and selling all the stuff that
Speaker 1: she and her ex husband Bill Victor Garber acquired together
Speaker 1: as a married couple, much to his dismay. And then
Speaker 1: Brenda gets a tip that her ex husband, Morty, started
Speaker 1: his business by selling stolen goods. So they've all got
Speaker 1: these separate plans to seek revenge or as they keep
Speaker 1: calling it, justice on their ex husbands, and they need
Speaker 1: the stolen They need the books to prove that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Morty is a crook. So they need a
Speaker 1: way to get into his new condo or house or whatever.
Speaker 1: So they orchestrate this like interior decorating Cohn to get
Speaker 1: this high society lady Ganilla Goldberg played by Maggie Smith,
Speaker 1: perfect to the fourth generation scammer. She's great. She's trying
Speaker 1: to convince Sarah Jessica Parker's character to hire this guy
Speaker 1: Duarto Felice. He was an interior decorator that Brenda works for.
Speaker 1: They like do this whole heist thing, and they sneak
Speaker 1: in to get the documents Hi Jinks and Soothe there's
Speaker 1: like a scaffold. Oh my god. At two of my
Speaker 1: favorite bits of physical comedy just period ever. First, and
Speaker 1: definitely the more minor of the two is so the
Speaker 1: office that they're trying to get the papers from its
Speaker 1: upstairs which means that they've got to send a staircase
Speaker 1: and safety first. They all reach for the banister, but
Speaker 1: because it's an artecho home, the banister is not sturdily
Speaker 1: affixed to the staircase itself. It's hanging from wire from
Speaker 1: the ceiling, so it just goes everywhere, and you watch,
Speaker 1: like collectively a hundred and twenty years almost just tumble
Speaker 1: off the stairs. It is the best. It's all three
Speaker 1: of them are so like perfectly cats, and they're both
Speaker 1: they're all like really good with physical comedy. They're all screamers.
Speaker 1: I just love it. We are also in this bit
Speaker 1: of physical comedy that come right after the staircase is
Speaker 1: preceded by the best Diane Keaton scream in the movie,
Speaker 1: where she peeks over the edge of the building and
Speaker 1: then responds with her entire body, like her whole body
Speaker 1: makes nice like glasses flip off and then like come
Speaker 1: back down, and then Cony hans like, I can do this.
Speaker 1: I do all my own stunts. She's already over, she's
Speaker 1: already in, no problem, and they have to get down
Speaker 1: in the window washer thing, and every second of that.
Speaker 1: So it's so good. It's everything you need to happen.
Speaker 1: They fall right into the window of the people that
Speaker 1: they're trying to run from. Morty and Shelley and Bronson
Speaker 1: been shot. However, you say his name is just leading
Speaker 1: them around the apartment, whipping them around so they don't
Speaker 1: see them. And then in a floor below, of course,
Speaker 1: a couple is trying to make sweet lovely to be interrupted.
Speaker 1: The ladies huge fans. The call to at least you
Speaker 1: look great is that? I mean, they established it because
Speaker 1: he has fans. It at least gets told she looks great.
Speaker 1: I mean, when Chris gets pulled in it's in a
Speaker 1: lesbian bar. I'd love to put a put a button
Speaker 1: in that. But yeah, man, them stopping in front of
Speaker 1: the sex having couple was just terrific. You look great,
Speaker 1: but I can't hear. I can't hear you look great.
Speaker 1: And there the two of them to get the husband
Speaker 1: and the wife so good. Oh my god, it's so fun.
Speaker 1: But they have the documents they need now, so they
Speaker 1: have Yeah, they had the document saying Diane Katon on
Speaker 1: that old ass computer trying to hack where are the
Speaker 1: tax improom? I was like, damn, can you don't know
Speaker 1: how to use a computer. It also didn't look like
Speaker 1: a burning It looked like something they built in paint,
Speaker 1: and then just told her to click around in the
Speaker 1: paint menu like real careful. Meanwhile, Chris and his daughter
Speaker 1: is like, hey, mom, you should get back into the
Speaker 1: advertising business. So to raise money to start it, nous
Speaker 1: Elise sells Annie all the assets that she repossessed from
Speaker 1: Victor Garber and her marriage, and then Annie sells them
Speaker 1: at an auction, which Sarah Jessica Parker's character is at
Speaker 1: buying everything, well, buying the wrong thing, because Professor McGonagall
Speaker 1: is like, buy all the wrong things and spend all
Speaker 1: your like she's she's being a stranger and Professor McGonagall
Speaker 1: telling her what to do. On either side, I just
Speaker 1: wrote I just wrote down Lacy's name during that because
Speaker 1: I was like, she's a true scam goddess. Yes, connecting
Speaker 1: the dots Galaxy brand style. So the wheels are in motion.
Speaker 1: But Annie is trying to, like, you know, dig into
Speaker 1: Elise's ex husband's Victor Garber's kind of deal and passed
Speaker 1: but can't find anything bad on him, which upsets Elise,
Speaker 1: and she's drunk and she's saying some nasty things and
Speaker 1: Brenda fights back and shame things start to fall apart
Speaker 1: in the First Wives Club, but then they realize, hey,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be fighting each other, we should be fighting
Speaker 1: the patriarchy, so they refocus their anger back towards their
Speaker 1: ex husband's and then Brenda extorts Morty, basically puts herself
Speaker 1: in control of his like electronics business, saying like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to take everything or I will wrat you out
Speaker 1: for your criminal activity. And then Annie takes the money
Speaker 1: that she earned from the auction and buys her ex
Speaker 1: husband's advertising agency out from under him. Um and then
Speaker 1: at Lice goes to Victor Garber, her ex husband, and says, hey,
Speaker 1: that new girlfriend of yours, that actress lady, she is sixteen,
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, So then they're had to have
Speaker 1: been a better beat there there. But my favorite part
Speaker 1: of my favorite um like payoff of the three is
Speaker 1: Bet Middler full on kidnapping her husband and he she says,
Speaker 1: this is a kidnapping. He comes to he's in a
Speaker 1: meat locker and he's confronted with his tax crimes, and
Speaker 1: you're like, this is this is what I wanted, and
Speaker 1: this is the revenge I was seeking I do also
Speaker 1: love whenever Goldie Hahn is like, yeah, like your lawyer suggested,
Speaker 1: we liquefied the assets. Here's your half, and it's a
Speaker 1: fifty cents. She's sold all that stuff to Diane Keating's
Speaker 1: character for a dollar. Oh, it's so good. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then it's just good. Okay. So they all have their
Speaker 1: ex husbands meet them at their official office of the
Speaker 1: First Wives Club and they're like, okay, we have you here,
Speaker 1: and now you have to pay, and they make their
Speaker 1: ex husbands fund a crisis center for women that they
Speaker 1: name after their friend Cynthia. And then they throw a
Speaker 1: big party, and the voiceover narration that Diane Keaton is
Speaker 1: giving she's talking about how Brendan Morty they're probably going
Speaker 1: to get back together, how at Lease is in a
Speaker 1: new hit stage play. She's dating an actor in the play,
Speaker 1: and that Aaron, her ex husband, was like, I'm ready
Speaker 1: to get back together, and then she tells him to
Speaker 1: drop dead. And then they after the party, they're all
Speaker 1: wearing white business suits and then they start to sing
Speaker 1: and dance, and then the dancing continues onto the street.
Speaker 1: It's it is inspired. I honestly do cherish that scene
Speaker 1: I never had context for like what that comes at
Speaker 1: the end of and you're just like, oh, it just
Speaker 1: fits perfect. We've got to take a quick break and
Speaker 1: then we'll come right back. Let's discuss. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: there's so much. I mean, I think a good jumping
Speaker 1: off point is just to say, right off the bat,
Speaker 1: uh that for all those movies and strengths, it is
Speaker 1: about upper class. This is like the movie. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: insane to the point where I'm I was curious about
Speaker 1: like the historical context of this movie, and I didn't
Speaker 1: do a deep dive on it. But this movie comes
Speaker 1: out which is a big moment for Hillary Clinton, and
Speaker 1: I feel like you can kind of feel it in
Speaker 1: this movie. Uh. This is pre Monica Lewinsky that all
Speaker 1: HiT's the fan, but I feel like the uh, there
Speaker 1: there are some Hillary Clinton vibes I felt throughout this movie. Uh,
Speaker 1: and not even in like a negative way, but like
Speaker 1: you do feel that that like white feminist vibe through
Speaker 1: this movie and also almost as like a predictor of
Speaker 1: of where things go from there a deep hatred of
Speaker 1: younger women permeate the movie. But just so, I mean,
Speaker 1: right after bed, we recognize this is a movie that
Speaker 1: comes from the most privileged place a woman come from. Indeed, yes,
Speaker 1: if I had just seen this now, I couldn't connect
Speaker 1: because I can't. I don't care about rich people or
Speaker 1: any of their problems. So sorry, if you're rich and
Speaker 1: you're listening, and there's a lot of media with great
Speaker 1: performances and brilliant characters, and the stakes to me are
Speaker 1: just also false because they're rich. And I think because
Speaker 1: I saw this early on, it helped, so I had
Speaker 1: a connection to it. I think actually, in a few ways,
Speaker 1: this movie gave me an unrealistic picture of the world
Speaker 1: because I just sort of accepted that, like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you'll have one rich friend. One of your friends will
Speaker 1: Mary a banker. It's not weird to know someone famous,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, you'll be fine. Brenda's character is
Speaker 1: the one that you know, my family is the most
Speaker 1: like an apartment. God, when goldiehun steps into Brenda's apartment
Speaker 1: for the first time, so fucking good. I've never been
Speaker 1: to your apartment. It's so real. I love the way,
Speaker 1: in the condescending way that from rich people describe normal people,
Speaker 1: but the way they sert like that's exactly what that
Speaker 1: Brenda is there to wear bad skirts and like, you know,
Speaker 1: the end is that her ex is still rich, so
Speaker 1: she'll be fine. Yeah, And I think, you know, this
Speaker 1: was a simpler, more complicated time where this was like
Speaker 1: a bold picture for women. And I'm really glad that
Speaker 1: it looks stated in the ways that it does right
Speaker 1: because that just means that there's been progress, right, So
Speaker 1: there there is, Like I'm I'm glad this movie exists.
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely a step in the right direction
Speaker 1: that you know, misfires in some ways, uh and plenty
Speaker 1: of which we'll talk about, but like it is, this
Speaker 1: was like a huge surprise of a hit of a movie,
Speaker 1: which I think also just speaks to like how few
Speaker 1: movies are made for women, specifically like older women. There's
Speaker 1: a huge market for this ship. We've this had a
Speaker 1: thirty million dollar budget and made back one million dollars.
Speaker 1: It was a huge, huge, huge hit. And it's wild
Speaker 1: that there's not First Wives Club to Second Wives Club,
Speaker 1: but for something that grows so much and not get
Speaker 1: pulled back. Although I think I just spoke a remake
Speaker 1: into existence. My apologies, universe, let's all write it. Let's
Speaker 1: get it right on it. I would push gently back
Speaker 1: against the idea that this movie deeply hates younger women
Speaker 1: because all of these stars were younger stars, like, these
Speaker 1: aren't women who became famous at this is them reflecting back.
Speaker 1: You know, some of them were famous as teens. Some
Speaker 1: of them would have been that sixteen year old who
Speaker 1: might have sued a director like not you know what,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Uh yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: looking backwards. I think it's a commentary on how we
Speaker 1: being the Hollywood or the media or people feel about
Speaker 1: older women. That total it's a reflection back, because there's
Speaker 1: no way to me that Goldie Hawn reflecting on being
Speaker 1: an aging actress. I don't think she hates her younger
Speaker 1: I don't think Bett hates her younger self. I do
Speaker 1: think there's a weird empty target for just those like
Speaker 1: the idea of young women who sleep with older married guy.
Speaker 1: It's just sort of this amorphous blob in the movie
Speaker 1: and they only take shape twice and they are both
Speaker 1: total idiot ditzes. That's what That's what I'm more criticizing.
Speaker 1: I don't think it has anything to do with the
Speaker 1: actresses or anything like that, but the way that the
Speaker 1: younger characters are written are to be vapid, absolutely stupid
Speaker 1: and will fall for anything. Is Shelly stupid or is
Speaker 1: she the smartest one in the More? She's definitely not
Speaker 1: the smartest one in the movie. She's I think, smarter
Speaker 1: than the most of the guys in the movie. She's
Speaker 1: smarter than Victor Garber Is. She's smarter than most of
Speaker 1: the ladies. I think she's got a number. I think
Speaker 1: she's reading the world, and I mean she's taking a
Speaker 1: cynical perspective from it. Her character is obviously in airhead.
Speaker 1: She says duh and snaps her gump, but I think
Speaker 1: in acts an act and she like the scene where
Speaker 1: she and more Doy have a fight and she just
Speaker 1: flips her hair, turns around and gets him to unzipped
Speaker 1: her dress, is like, wow, your tool belt is full
Speaker 1: and you know how to use how do you every tool?
Speaker 1: And it I mean compliments. Sure, I mean Shelly is
Speaker 1: a total idiot. Wait, no, Shelly's the Sarah Jessica Parker,
Speaker 1: who's the Elizabeth. But let's face who was canonically sixteen,
Speaker 1: So I guess we can't even really like I mean,
Speaker 1: she was that a lie? I think that that was
Speaker 1: like her birth certificate, but they were trying to make
Speaker 1: something up on him, right, Oh, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like that when we watch I grew confused about
Speaker 1: Okay yeah. Yeah. To me, it's more of a main
Speaker 1: women were focusing on just resent that their former husbands
Speaker 1: have all left them for younger women, because you know,
Speaker 1: these are shitty men who value youth over anything else
Speaker 1: than a woman. So I just understand it's the writing misfires,
Speaker 1: and it's like kind of needlessly piling on other women
Speaker 1: to make the character younger characters over the top materialistic
Speaker 1: and stupid. It. I mean, in the nineties, sluts were
Speaker 1: still sluts, right, I mean, which this movie makes very
Speaker 1: There's a lot there would not have been an opportunity
Speaker 1: in that time to like make those fully fledged characters
Speaker 1: because they're man steelers and that's well yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: like such a stock character where it's like I was
Speaker 1: thinking back to like the new and also the new
Speaker 1: wife is a stock character, like the younger woman that like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking marriage trap. Yeah, Meredith from the
Speaker 1: Parent Trap is like peak villainous new wife that is
Speaker 1: like trying to and it's It's like, I understand where
Speaker 1: that sound of step more that you call them by
Speaker 1: their whole first name caphones never came and there's never
Speaker 1: any even though that nickname is longer. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of things about this movie that
Speaker 1: is like because this is a feminist text, but it
Speaker 1: is like a very nineties feminism, a very white feminism text,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's still a whole lot of body
Speaker 1: shaming across the whole spectrum of like body shape and size,
Speaker 1: mental health and suicide are not really addressed responsibly. I
Speaker 1: would say there's there's quite a bit of slut shaming.
Speaker 1: The only women in this movie who are people of color, well,
Speaker 1: they're hardly I need to begin with. And if there are,
Speaker 1: they are in either service roles or extras in the
Speaker 1: background who don't get any lines or significance. I mean,
Speaker 1: pretty much the gamut of uh nineties go to thoughtless
Speaker 1: mistakes are definitely made. But one one moment, if we can,
Speaker 1: I mean, you just named basically all of our talking points,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna choose one. The ways that bodies are
Speaker 1: treated in this movie. I think that there's some good
Speaker 1: moments and there's some some shitty moments. A good moment
Speaker 1: I thought was towards the end when they have this blowout,
Speaker 1: like ten minute long argument. It's like Bette Midler and
Speaker 1: Goldi Hunter especially great in this scene, and Goldie Hunt
Speaker 1: keeps on poking at Bette Midler about like not looking
Speaker 1: the way that she wants her to look and having
Speaker 1: like a body that isn't a size to like Hollywood body,
Speaker 1: and Bette Midler snaps at her and gets really angry
Speaker 1: and throws a golden globe, which and you don't usually
Speaker 1: get to see, like the person who is being talked
Speaker 1: down to by the quote unquote hottie get a chance
Speaker 1: to respond and respond with anger, and like you get
Speaker 1: that like cool Catharsis and like that. I thought, like
Speaker 1: I didn't expect that to happen because they are like
Speaker 1: subtly and unsubtly piling on to Bette Midler's appearance and
Speaker 1: the way she's styled in all this throughout the movie.
Speaker 1: And then but then she gets to throw a fucking
Speaker 1: golden globe about it, and it's like leaving the funk alone.
Speaker 1: And like I that I liked that that was cool.
Speaker 1: That's either right before or right after a Lae says
Speaker 1: to Brenda, what did you ever win a pie eating contest?
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, no wonder Brenda. That's when you throw
Speaker 1: a golden glove. And then then Goldie goes, that's old
Speaker 1: Cloe and it hits a picture of Goldie home. It does,
Speaker 1: and when Goldiehunk goes to clean it up, the picture
Speaker 1: is like a portrait of her laying and smoking and
Speaker 1: it's just Goldie hands standing there and get like the
Speaker 1: same standing pose with cigarette. It's so good, literally, such
Speaker 1: a perfect shot. One perfect shot. Twitter get right on
Speaker 1: that because it is too good. It's it's I I like,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of moments in that argument that
Speaker 1: I thought were like really cool and cathartic and not
Speaker 1: what you normally get to see. And also, in spite
Speaker 1: of the fact that this movie is coming from a
Speaker 1: big place of privilege, all these actresses are fifty and
Speaker 1: over when this movie comes out, which is extremely irregular,
Speaker 1: especially for a movie to be made like this and
Speaker 1: also to be this successful. And granted, I mean, they
Speaker 1: go to like some big names to make that happen,
Speaker 1: but they're all over fifty and they're presented for the
Speaker 1: most part as very sexually viable characters with agency, access
Speaker 1: to grind, etcetera. And and that is cool. You don't
Speaker 1: get that a lot. It is cool. I do think
Speaker 1: also that the conversation about bodies in this movie can't
Speaker 1: be pulled out of the context of the nineties in
Speaker 1: which it lives. Oh the nineties, like the world positive
Speaker 1: next time, like just the worst of the like bones
Speaker 1: being super fashionable time where I mean Sarah just Jessica Parker.
Speaker 1: It looks like it's just painful. It's funny. When Jason
Speaker 1: Mowanna had his like Dad Bob picture get made fun
Speaker 1: of recently and uh it was believe it was a
Speaker 1: female director came to his defense and was just like,
Speaker 1: actually having apps for a movie is like terribly unhealthy.
Speaker 1: Like what it actually takes is this like deprivation diet
Speaker 1: and it's not it's not good. And actors will ask
Speaker 1: if they have to do abs and like they should
Speaker 1: get paid more because it's horrible. And I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a conversation that didn't happen about what women had
Speaker 1: to do to be Sarah Jessica Parker in that movie,
Speaker 1: Like it's why I like, I think shared Sarah Jessica
Speaker 1: Parker is too smart to play a character that's stupid
Speaker 1: without knowing the kind of stupid she was was a
Speaker 1: little bit smart, Like there's a she's just not allowed
Speaker 1: to be anything but a puff of air. And I
Speaker 1: wonder what her first Wive Club movie would be if
Speaker 1: you got to see her later. You know, because you're
Speaker 1: trapped in whatever youth says you have to be in
Speaker 1: some ways, like flashing back to the sixties and sixty nine,
Speaker 1: graduating from college, you were away, and you know, Sarah
Speaker 1: Jessica Parker's character and her herself, we're just trying to
Speaker 1: be away in the fucking nineties. She's so small in
Speaker 1: this movie, and it gets commented on because that Midler's characters,
Speaker 1: so something like, oh, look at you. The bulimia has
Speaker 1: certainly paid off. So she's body shaming her for her tininess.
Speaker 1: And then Sara Jessica Parker comes right back with some
Speaker 1: like fat shame in comments directed that Midler's characters. So
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like women can't please anybody, including each other, too, right,
Speaker 1: I think, I genuinely think if this movie got rebooted,
Speaker 1: which I hope it doesn't please just pretty so uh,
Speaker 1: an original story. But if this movie was updated, I
Speaker 1: would be very surprised if the first wives and second
Speaker 1: wives didn't end up speaking to each other and finding
Speaker 1: common ground. And then I mean, it would be cooler
Speaker 1: if the second wives were brought in on it and
Speaker 1: they could just you know, be six deep when they
Speaker 1: when they you know, spike on the on the guys,
Speaker 1: because these guys get punished every way, but morally, that's
Speaker 1: that's the other moment where it's like so so wide
Speaker 1: privilege me that you're like, whoa, there's like the cretenza,
Speaker 1: some really nice sculptures, Like there's an argument for I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure all three husbands to be or maybe not
Speaker 1: maybe not Diane Keaton's husband, but at least two of
Speaker 1: the husbands could be put in jail. But that is
Speaker 1: not even really a reference. Says like, well, there's no
Speaker 1: way that's going to happen. But one is a literal
Speaker 1: child molester, like one is a child molester, one is
Speaker 1: like has been like committing fraud and stealing, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna you're just gonna have to pay me
Speaker 1: off for this. I mean, you're not going to go
Speaker 1: to jail, you're a wealthy white business owner. But to
Speaker 1: be fair, I think it is like wherever you are
Speaker 1: if you don't send your paycheck to prison. Like the
Speaker 1: funked up thing about the trajectory of this movie is
Speaker 1: that these women's fate is still tied all to their
Speaker 1: ex husband's. Uh and so Marty going to jail doesn't
Speaker 1: help Morty going to jail doesn't help Bette Midler, right,
Speaker 1: so yeah, she needs him around to write to her LLC.
Speaker 1: The first Wives Club that blows my mind is now
Speaker 1: I understand what you have to do to be have
Speaker 1: a check filled out to like something that isn't your name. Yes,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of work. It had to have
Speaker 1: gotten someone. Yeah, I mean, come on, they all have accounts,
Speaker 1: They've got accountants. It's true. There's a movie Home Alone,
Speaker 1: A shortlist of other movies made me think that you
Speaker 1: live in big houses when you grow up, like you
Speaker 1: just like have money, you just like have upper middle class.
Speaker 1: There's all of the brat pack movie not yeah, the
Speaker 1: brat pack movies, like you just have stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: it's normal, and look at us now it's accurate. We
Speaker 1: all have totally so many medio apartments and cars kind
Speaker 1: of yeah, I don't have a car there there, yeah,
Speaker 1: there is. I mean I feel like in this just place,
Speaker 1: every like rom com or any genre adjacent is just
Speaker 1: like at cheapest, like upper middle class. But these women
Speaker 1: are low superpot I think they're they're like a Bette
Speaker 1: Middler's poor. But then you're like, no, she's not. They're
Speaker 1: all living in New York and she has like ah,
Speaker 1: like it's everyone's fine. She has money to pay for
Speaker 1: her the band that he wanted at her son's bar,
Speaker 1: Miss Fun. That was the only thing Morty was willing
Speaker 1: to pay for that. Yeah, a little guilt boy, that
Speaker 1: Sun character did. I put a lot of myself in
Speaker 1: him upon first viewing. Gosh, it is hard. The whole
Speaker 1: scene where it's like you two won't even talk to
Speaker 1: each other like been there, buddy, like just so like
Speaker 1: and at the end it is it is a cruelty.
Speaker 1: The last scene in that movie should be edited out
Speaker 1: for children of divorce. If you are like the Morty
Speaker 1: and they get back together dancing and their son is
Speaker 1: like watching from across the dance floor. That is so
Speaker 1: fucked up. Just like sitting next to my mom in
Speaker 1: the theater, just like, ain't gonna happen, kid there, and
Speaker 1: my mom doesn't sound like that she's the best there.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on board. Yeah. And to continue the
Speaker 1: body shaming talk, the other uh major besides kind of
Speaker 1: the body shaming it takes place towards Bett Midler is
Speaker 1: the body shaming it takes place towards Goldie Han, where
Speaker 1: again I feel like we get a very nineties treatment
Speaker 1: of like attitude towards plastic surgery, where Goldie Han's character
Speaker 1: for the most part is like fuck you, I'm doing
Speaker 1: you know, it takes takes the I think the even
Speaker 1: referenced Share because Share was like one of the only
Speaker 1: people who would admit to having plastic surgery and was
Speaker 1: like really into it and teld people to funk off
Speaker 1: Shares the best um. But Goldie Hans character is like
Speaker 1: she'll be dodgy about it and then she'll be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so yes, I've had work done in blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: it's for my job blah blah blah because and you can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's like, especially for where her character's
Speaker 1: arc is, she is trying to remain relevant in a
Speaker 1: in a business that it kills older women. Uh, and
Speaker 1: so it makes sense and uh. Diane Keaton's character is like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you're getting stitched up in fun. You know,
Speaker 1: it's treated as very a key or like taboo or
Speaker 1: just like the way it's treated. And then her doctor
Speaker 1: is like, if I put any more collagen in your lips,
Speaker 1: you'll look like you like put your mouth on the
Speaker 1: pool drain. But really, I mean there are some body
Speaker 1: horror elements introduced with the plastic surgery. I don't really
Speaker 1: mind it when the doctor says it, because that's his
Speaker 1: job to advise on plastic surgery. But but the the
Speaker 1: way that the other first Wives treated, at least at
Speaker 1: first is like is literally I mean again, product of
Speaker 1: its time. That's how my mom would have talked about
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. That's exactly it. It's why I think that
Speaker 1: movie is self aware, Like it's having a conversation we
Speaker 1: have about plastic surgery, but it's having with the people
Speaker 1: who are experiencing it. We're not standing in the grocery
Speaker 1: store looking at a magazine and being like tisk tisk.
Speaker 1: We get that scene, but then we get the pushback
Speaker 1: the follow through. GOLDI Han gets to talk to you.
Speaker 1: She's not on the magazine cover. She's at the table,
Speaker 1: and she gets to tell you that she did this
Speaker 1: not because of your tisskiss at the grocery pile, but
Speaker 1: because you won't look at the magazine cover unless she
Speaker 1: does this, she says, and that middlers saying, you call
Speaker 1: me fat, but you ask for the whole world to
Speaker 1: be this crazy skinny. Like both of those are reflections
Speaker 1: of conversations we have and I see I saw it then,
Speaker 1: like none of it feels punching down to me, aside
Speaker 1: from the privileged whitness. I felt differently about the body
Speaker 1: shaming parts because I feel like all of these actresses
Speaker 1: are under the lens and have been for so long
Speaker 1: that it's active commentary across the board. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think the dudes do a really good job of letting
Speaker 1: the ladies have this movie. They're kind of just vessels,
Speaker 1: but every lady is sort of a comment on how
Speaker 1: Hollywood treats women, down to the women of color who
Speaker 1: are only in service roles. I think there's a self
Speaker 1: awareness in this film that's like there are anything credit
Speaker 1: for But I see what you're saying. But I do
Speaker 1: think the movie is aware of that, Like in nine
Speaker 1: they weren't going to make this movie without four white
Speaker 1: women who were married to white men. So and they
Speaker 1: weren't gonna make it without a beautiful star in Goldie
Speaker 1: Hans part. And they weren't going to make it without
Speaker 1: a huge name in Bette Midler's part. Like the same
Speaker 1: constraints that the movie talks about are applied to the movie.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, like Goldie Hans line where she's like,
Speaker 1: there are only three ages for women in Hollywood, Babe
Speaker 1: district attorney and driving misstays, yes, that's great. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: she's right, and she's right, and those rules still applied today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the movie I think did the best it's could to
Speaker 1: flip over conventions. Asking it to do all of them
Speaker 1: is a lot in nine six, but maybe we can
Speaker 1: observe like what it did try to comment not we
Speaker 1: but like watching it again, I did feel like some
Speaker 1: of it is commentary and some of it is oversight.
Speaker 1: I think you're right they could have actors of color.
Speaker 1: I think they casted really white. I think I mean
Speaker 1: it's like, and we're not coming from a place of
Speaker 1: like this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong.
Speaker 1: It's it's more of I think we're coming from a
Speaker 1: place of like this is present, is a commented upon
Speaker 1: or not? And I think with the body shaming, some
Speaker 1: of it is commented upon and some of it isn't.
Speaker 1: And it's for jokes. It's cheap. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: cheap jokes, and some of them are stronger than others,
Speaker 1: but the ones that are less strong certainly don't carry
Speaker 1: the whole social commentary angle that I feel is present
Speaker 1: some of it, Like right, I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: the Bette Miller stuff is great because there is a
Speaker 1: payoff and she gets to respond and the same the
Speaker 1: same thing, like you're saying, for the way that people
Speaker 1: are kind of snipping at Goldie Han for being plastic
Speaker 1: and having a lot of work done, and like she
Speaker 1: gets the opportunity to respond and and just like explain
Speaker 1: and we understand where she's coming from. And then there's
Speaker 1: a few examples where I feel like that it excuse
Speaker 1: cheap and it doesn't happen for sure. Yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: Let's take another quick break and then we'll come right
Speaker 1: back for more discussion. And we're back what next. One
Speaker 1: thing that I thought was also like something that I
Speaker 1: hadn't really heard discussed in a movie before. Was like
Speaker 1: one of the commonalities of all four of these women
Speaker 1: and including Cynthia, is that their husbands became so successful
Speaker 1: because of the support or some other driving force of
Speaker 1: their wives. I think that is not something that ever
Speaker 1: really gets discussed and probably like one of the big
Speaker 1: strengths of this movie, where like it's uh stated that
Speaker 1: Cynthia's husband became this big successful guy because of her connections.
Speaker 1: Uh Annie was the one taking care of their daughter
Speaker 1: and taking care of everything at home and super providing
Speaker 1: for her husband while he was building his ad agency.
Speaker 1: Brenda was working the counter at Morty's stores and doing
Speaker 1: all the on the ground stuff. And Alice was the
Speaker 1: one who was originally gave her like a screen partner
Speaker 1: and and in all of his opportunities in Hollywood, and
Speaker 1: then he immediately became a dickhead and ditch. And she's like,
Speaker 1: I taught you everything you know about films. That's so cool.
Speaker 1: I I like, I love that they get the chance
Speaker 1: to like air their grievances about it because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fucking horrible, and it happens all the time, all
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, And it's and it's the movie we
Speaker 1: don't it's the characters we don't make movies about. Every
Speaker 1: movie is about a dude who did an amazing thing.
Speaker 1: And there's like a wife character way in the back.
Speaker 1: She's ever supportive or annoying exactly. And this is you know,
Speaker 1: pulling those wives, those characters out of other films and
Speaker 1: throwing them all together, which I love. Yeah, like form
Speaker 1: a club they do. There's such a dark, sad streak
Speaker 1: in the bet Midler storyline about her uncle. Carmine is
Speaker 1: this Italian dude with connections, things that fall off the
Speaker 1: back of trucks, access to meat lockers and such, and he,
Speaker 1: along with Brenda's father, organized stuff to fall off trucks
Speaker 1: for Morty's first stores so that they could get their start.
Speaker 1: And then Carmine is so mad at Morty. You know,
Speaker 1: what a shame. He's a dog. He treats you this way,
Speaker 1: What a shame, and then just tells her to look
Speaker 1: at the books and goes away. Carmine has been there
Speaker 1: the whole time she's been broke. Carmine would invest in
Speaker 1: a husband. Carmine won't invest in her. I didn't even think.
Speaker 1: And they don't even get It's not like Morty goes
Speaker 1: and carmines like I got you, babe, don't even worry
Speaker 1: about it. Your boy's taken care of, no problem. It's
Speaker 1: that they have to get Morty and it's still Morty
Speaker 1: gets the money Morety gives the money right, And that
Speaker 1: crazy how Carmine isn't a feminist icon was looking out for,
Speaker 1: but a fun character actor so good. I also love
Speaker 1: that we We've talked about it a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I love that big argument scene between everyone. Um, it's
Speaker 1: like you get you get to see so many I
Speaker 1: feel we are kind of in a phase of like
Speaker 1: things are all generally moving in a good direction. I
Speaker 1: feel like we are kind of stuck in this like
Speaker 1: film moment where there's a lot of merry sewish friendships
Speaker 1: and like I support you no matter what. Awesome and
Speaker 1: and here we get a lot of conflict and like
Speaker 1: they disagree with each other a lot in this huge
Speaker 1: argument where it makes sense that they would have grievances
Speaker 1: to air with each other after like twenty years of
Speaker 1: not seeing each other, and then this traumatic thing happens
Speaker 1: to everyone and then they start a weird small business
Speaker 1: and like, of course they're going to have to go
Speaker 1: back to sixty nine and like, you know, yell it out,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really cool to see them like calling
Speaker 1: each other out for all this different ship. And and
Speaker 1: then also and then follow that by Sad Montage, Yes,
Speaker 1: maybe it was going to happen to our weird small business.
Speaker 1: And then I love to forgiving a catastrophizing everything's off,
Speaker 1: the world is over everything. Yeah, she's falling apart, and
Speaker 1: then she calls her mom, which makes for like a
Speaker 1: really great arc with her and her mom where she's
Speaker 1: like things were bad and then you called me. Her
Speaker 1: mom was like really touched because previously, like Dan King
Speaker 1: was like my therapist said, you're controlling and she is.
Speaker 1: She is, Yeah, she super is and on such nice stationary.
Speaker 1: Her mom character is great. But yeah, I really liked
Speaker 1: that arc. And then going back to that argument scene.
Speaker 1: I love to see women's rage expressed in a movie
Speaker 1: because women aren't allowed to be angry. According to Society
Speaker 1: read friend of the show past guest Saya Shamali's book
Speaker 1: Rage Becomes Her about this very topic. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I love I love women's rage. I think it's hurt,
Speaker 1: like they listen to each other. They're angry, and they
Speaker 1: have to take distance, halt hungry, angry, lonely, tire, and
Speaker 1: don't make a decision or start a fight if you're
Speaker 1: any one of those four things. But they have their fight,
Speaker 1: they step away. And then it's Diane Keaton that takes
Speaker 1: convincing because her neuroses pushes her to think that everything's over.
Speaker 1: But the two women who were the maddest, who actually
Speaker 1: expressed their anger, resolved the conflict and then brought it
Speaker 1: back around a dian in this way that works, and
Speaker 1: Goldiehon getting sober is a little easily handled. She looks
Speaker 1: at a large bottle and she's like, it was like
Speaker 1: the bottom of like Carlo Rossi wine, which is what
Speaker 1: you look at sobers, the fully empty gallon of Carlo Rossi.
Speaker 1: That's the dark moment, but it is that should never
Speaker 1: be empty. You should buy it and it should live
Speaker 1: in your house. After your drink two glasses of it
Speaker 1: and be like, no, I'm not doing this to myself.
Speaker 1: But yeah, she just does get sober. She vacuums with
Speaker 1: a hangover one time and it's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm putting it down too much. Yeah, they do glaze
Speaker 1: over that. But as far as like as realistic as
Speaker 1: a movie of the genre is ever going to get,
Speaker 1: for like showing like a group of friends being mad
Speaker 1: at each other, seeing like we never get to see
Speaker 1: like what friend breakups are like because there's still no
Speaker 1: societal rules for them other than just ghost in people.
Speaker 1: And and then yeah, like seeing it come back together
Speaker 1: and they takes some time and it's nice and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is so I liked it. It seems like all
Speaker 1: the tension that it existed between them since the first
Speaker 1: scene was aired out and resolved and felt healthy, it
Speaker 1: does do the thing where like that's exactly the time
Speaker 1: in a movie structure. Correct me if I'm wrong. I
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody here's studied screenwriting, but if anybody has,
Speaker 1: um it doesn't ring about But it's it's all too rosy.
Speaker 1: And you've already seen seeds planted weed, seeds planted in
Speaker 1: the garden that are going to have to get pulled out,
Speaker 1: and it's satisfying to watch them grow because you see
Speaker 1: it right from the beginning. And they get in a
Speaker 1: fight right at the end of act too, and then
Speaker 1: they do and it's perfect because it just this movie
Speaker 1: is just a bunch of pretty little bows. Everything ties
Speaker 1: up real nice. It happens, you know, it's great. I
Speaker 1: think that scene pays off really really well. I really yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like one of my favorite It's in the
Speaker 1: performances to not just the lines. The tension is really
Speaker 1: there between them until they blow it all up, and
Speaker 1: then their friendship afterwards is sweeter and it's funny. The
Speaker 1: golden middler throwing the golden globe, so throwing a golden
Speaker 1: globe in response. It's it's incredible. I I really really
Speaker 1: enjoyed that scene. Another thing about the Ark with Annie
Speaker 1: and her mom. Um with Annie and her mom in
Speaker 1: the beginning, and he's like, what if I find somebody else?
Speaker 1: Like it's possible, because she's like, you know conte Diane Keaton, Yeah,
Speaker 1: contemplate um contempded whether or not to like try to
Speaker 1: make things work with her husband Aaron, And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, what if I find someone else,
Speaker 1: it's possible, And then her mom says, you're forty six,
Speaker 1: you have a better chance of being slaughtered by a psychopath.
Speaker 1: Same bad statistic from Sleepless in Seattle. Yeah, X that
Speaker 1: they sleep Seattle say that the statistic is incorrect. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: another choice quote. And this is all presented as we
Speaker 1: know that the mom is being too much, and it's
Speaker 1: not presented as like what she's saying is correct. But
Speaker 1: she also says, you're married, you're happy, you have a daughter.
Speaker 1: You don't need self esteem, like Catherine, you need to
Speaker 1: see the therapist, right, you need to go see Marcia
Speaker 1: Gay Harden. By the way, there's like this really bizarre
Speaker 1: like male gaze shot when we first see Marsha Harden's character,
Speaker 1: where like the camera just like hovers on her like
Speaker 1: pelvis for a while. There's thigh shot and then it
Speaker 1: tilts up to her face. But it's like, okay, so
Speaker 1: there was a male cinematographer on this movie. Anyway. It's
Speaker 1: how you know from the first introduction of that psychiatrist
Speaker 1: that that's who her husband is sucking. Yeah, Like, if
Speaker 1: you're an adult watching that movie, it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: who they're fucking. You just know I mean the lesbian
Speaker 1: and now I mean and me Now is like, oh
Speaker 1: those two should fun. But it didn't happen that way
Speaker 1: now unfortunately not. I do hope again I'm giving this
Speaker 1: movie so much credit because there's two ways that goes.
Speaker 1: It's either like, get a lady with hot legs, like
Speaker 1: we need her to look hot so we believe a
Speaker 1: husband would sleep with her, or it's like a super
Speaker 1: intentional shot of like, let's really lead that this lady
Speaker 1: is fucking the husband that's also in therapy with her,
Speaker 1: and who knows. This movie is kind of a coin toss.
Speaker 1: That is, it's like you, it's sometimes you're just like
Speaker 1: this could be commentary or this could be oversight, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: it is definitely a mixed bag, and then I think
Speaker 1: it is. I think it is mixed. It's super proud
Speaker 1: of what it's making commentary on. Yeah, but it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's one years later. It's kind of hard to pick
Speaker 1: apart what which's intention is hard to identify sometimes. And
Speaker 1: then the final arc of like the Mom Annie storyline
Speaker 1: is Annie's mom at like the party, the celebratory party
Speaker 1: at the end, just saying like you're not think any
Speaker 1: younger or thinner, you know what? I think you need
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, and then Nanny's like, ah, so that was great.
Speaker 1: It's cute. I also going back to the Marsia guy
Speaker 1: Harden therapist. For a second. It was one of those
Speaker 1: like I don't know the last time I felt this
Speaker 1: in a movie where you get to see the quote
Speaker 1: unquote like deceitful person. Well not even quote unquote from Marsha,
Speaker 1: guy Harden, you should not be fucking your client. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's she was bad. But you see her get hit
Speaker 1: in the face before you know that, and then lady,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I guess I'm glad she got hit
Speaker 1: in the face earlier. Like it was weird. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know the last time that, like the bad
Speaker 1: thing happened to the villain before you knew you were
Speaker 1: that they were the villain, and then you were like, well, good,
Speaker 1: I've tried that wild. I do feel like Diane Keaton
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the last to know. Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: Like you got her personality too, is she's she's you know,
Speaker 1: put up a lot of walls and intentionally deluded her
Speaker 1: self and in some regards, but you know who doesn't
Speaker 1: do that in order to remain alive at time, I've
Speaker 1: convince saying Keaton doesn't know she's on set and just
Speaker 1: sort of follow her around, just like in both fingers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just like Nicholas Cage ladies. How about that Ivana Trump,
Speaker 1: you're like nine nineties six honny, Okay, she's there as herself,
Speaker 1: delivering the Familius line, don't get mad, get everything, which
Speaker 1: she didn't get mad. She didn't get to do that.
Speaker 1: You can't because Trump's dad put it on a trust
Speaker 1: when he was three years old to earn interests as
Speaker 1: a busy Yeah, it was just nice to be reminded
Speaker 1: that we live in hell now watching this lovely movie
Speaker 1: from twenty two years. Ivana Trump was a first wife,
Speaker 1: but then also could have been a different kind of
Speaker 1: first late first lady, but didn't happen that way. But
Speaker 1: now out like broken facsimile of her. Yes, robots somehow
Speaker 1: the lower model also Glorious Steinham is there playing herself.
Speaker 1: What can you do? You know, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: lot of like little nineties cameos. Yes, the movie too,
Speaker 1: it's rich. Should we talk about Annie's daughter, Chris and
Speaker 1: the sort of overall representation of queerness. Let's talk about Chris. Basically,
Speaker 1: what I will say, I feel like in the nineties,
Speaker 1: it's like coming out had to be like a thing,
Speaker 1: like you know, you said, everybody down. It was like
Speaker 1: the whole movie, And like with Chris, she just sort
Speaker 1: of walks in and it's it's like so early. It's
Speaker 1: the first time you meet her and she's coming out
Speaker 1: to her mom, and she's just like, beat dups. I
Speaker 1: loved it, eating plants on the wreck and in the
Speaker 1: middle of like also being criticizing her mom, like she
Speaker 1: basically interrupts criticizing her mom for fucking her dad again
Speaker 1: to come out and then returns to what she was
Speaker 1: stopped thing about it. And I don't know if this
Speaker 1: was the actress's choice because it's in the lines a
Speaker 1: little bit for her dad, but like she did it
Speaker 1: on purpose. I love it. She's just like had a plan.
Speaker 1: I know, I have to come out to my parents.
Speaker 1: What's the best worst way I could do it to them?
Speaker 1: Let me wrap it in an extremely personal criticism. I
Speaker 1: love it. I thought that seemed was so like, especially
Speaker 1: for its time, so cool, and it's I'm curious at
Speaker 1: what you guys think. I also thought because it's the
Speaker 1: way Diane Keaton's character deals with it. At first, she's like,
Speaker 1: are you sure, She's like, what do you say? Lesbian? Right?
Speaker 1: But but I do feel like that is how some parents,
Speaker 1: especially older parents, like someone born in that is a
Speaker 1: pretty good outcome for like bafflement but acceptance, Like it
Speaker 1: seemed like, you know, as much as it would be
Speaker 1: amazing for you know, Diane Kitton to be like, that's amazing,
Speaker 1: I completely accept you. Yes, this is like that's ideal obviously,
Speaker 1: but I felt like supportive, realistic way of showing that thoughts. Yes.
Speaker 1: I love the scene where they show up at the
Speaker 1: gay bar. Yeah, so there's a lesbian bar. First of all, bigger,
Speaker 1: nicer than any lesbian bar I've ever been to, which
Speaker 1: are determinedly like dives. But this is a like, you know,
Speaker 1: dance club, like ladies dancing. Uh, it's very big, it's
Speaker 1: all ladies. Um. Goldie Hunt is so excited because she's
Speaker 1: never been in a gay bar. Uh, Bette Midler, it's
Speaker 1: just so matter of fact about it, could not give
Speaker 1: a ship. I love the way her character handles it.
Speaker 1: They're just all examples of ways to do it right.
Speaker 1: Be super excited, don't give a fuck, or if you're
Speaker 1: that cheesy and sensitive like Diane Keaton is just stopping
Speaker 1: a woman walking out the door, being like you're just incredible.
Speaker 1: I just loved it because that's more again, like this
Speaker 1: movie is like my parents, like my dad, that's my dad.
Speaker 1: That stops what you're doing there, I like a good
Speaker 1: way to go. Big thumbs up, congrat congratulations, big thumbs up.
Speaker 1: I think is what I'll stick with. Is that what
Speaker 1: you like to be called big thumbs up? Is that? Okay?
Speaker 1: Just the sweetest. I also really enjoy it. You're not
Speaker 1: incredible because you're a lesbian. You just are a lesbian.
Speaker 1: You could still be a piece of ship, living proof.
Speaker 1: Like it's fine, that's such apparent thing to do. It's
Speaker 1: so cute. Is they're they're just like I just I,
Speaker 1: which is they're just saying like I don't get it,
Speaker 1: but I'm signed it. Like it's that scene. Was I
Speaker 1: in the same vein of like Diane Kean being like
Speaker 1: I what what? What? Like that's yeah, that scene doesn't
Speaker 1: punch down at all because it's that to me, is
Speaker 1: about freedom. A woman just didn't say that like it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a like you kids, what you're up to?
Speaker 1: It's still I understand that perspective. I think there's this
Speaker 1: whole generation that like you don't say that kind of
Speaker 1: thing out loud. It's not just that you don't come out.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh no, it isn't there an underground society
Speaker 1: where you're supposed to be there, Like, you know, what's
Speaker 1: running through her head is like all the lesbians she
Speaker 1: knew that got married to men like and lived and
Speaker 1: like you know, marriages or whatever with their long term
Speaker 1: friends on the side. But whatever's her picture of what
Speaker 1: lesbian freedom is. Isn't that lesbian bar not if you
Speaker 1: you know, even in nineteen sixty nine and a lady
Speaker 1: Gay was just like, I'm a proud lesbian who will
Speaker 1: marry a man to satisfy my family. And people were like,
Speaker 1: congrat yes, proud of you. That was like, you can't fight.
Speaker 1: It's so hard. When they're all at lunch on the
Speaker 1: Southern Dandy and I'm gonna marry a generously proportioned woman. Good,
Speaker 1: we've got plenty, and we need you lock this down. Well,
Speaker 1: when they're all at lunch after Cynthia's funeral, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're just like and Hee is like she's talking
Speaker 1: about her daughter and she's like, and you know, lesbians
Speaker 1: are great these days, Chris, It's just perfect. I mean,
Speaker 1: lesbians are great nowadays, She like has it takes a
Speaker 1: second before saying nowadays too. It is like the perfect
Speaker 1: like mom desperately trying to get it, not quite getting
Speaker 1: it line read I thought it was. It's also it's
Speaker 1: a lot to ask of your parents to be excitedly
Speaker 1: proud of your sexuality, of your family, of your love. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: but like just straight up raw dog fucking no, your
Speaker 1: parents don't have to wave a flag for that. It's
Speaker 1: totally okay. If they are a little shy about, like
Speaker 1: the actual sex part about your sexuality, probably for the
Speaker 1: best that they aren't overtly enthusiastic. I mean, parents are
Speaker 1: that way about straight to your parents. If you're telling
Speaker 1: your parents something about what you do while you're having sex,
Speaker 1: they are allowed to be like, look, okay, hang on,
Speaker 1: let me get over the part where you are having
Speaker 1: sex with anyone or thing, and then I'll process who
Speaker 1: you are having sex with, what look, do what you
Speaker 1: want with your life, and then it. Chris is like
Speaker 1: a continued presence throughout the movie. She she pops up
Speaker 1: here and there, she's participating in the first Wives Club
Speaker 1: and the like scheme on her dad, who she hates again,
Speaker 1: I want to just read the conversation at the very
Speaker 1: beginning between her and her mom where she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you were with that man again, weren't you. Mother. I'm
Speaker 1: so disappointed. And dun King's like, I know, sweetie, but
Speaker 1: he is your father. And then she's like, yes, but
Speaker 1: he's using you and you shouldn't let him. And it's like, hell, yes,
Speaker 1: women hating their dad representation in movies can't get enough
Speaker 1: of it. It's it's super fun. And he was also
Speaker 1: accurate to the way a daughter hates her dad, which
Speaker 1: is still lots him, just knows that he's knows him,
Speaker 1: and it's not like, you know, she's still like in
Speaker 1: his office. She hasn't said he's never gonna she's never
Speaker 1: going to talk to him again. You know, that's her dad.
Speaker 1: But she's also not like she's got expectations for him.
Speaker 1: He hasn't met. And I appreciate that. That's a kind
Speaker 1: of love. It's a very daughterly kind of love for
Speaker 1: their dad, like to do better, do as good as
Speaker 1: I think you should do. And then and then the
Speaker 1: other thing about Chris that I liked because I feel
Speaker 1: like people are like queer people are out at as
Speaker 1: jokes in movies very often, especially of this era. And
Speaker 1: at the beginning she tells Diane Keaton, don't tell dad,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell him when I want to. At
Speaker 1: the end she does, and it's such a funny moment,
Speaker 1: and she does it too like it's just yeah, like
Speaker 1: Chris is fun. I mean, she's just perfect. It's like
Speaker 1: she says something, don't tell daddy, I want to tell
Speaker 1: him when the time is right, like Father's Day or
Speaker 1: Christmas morning. My favorite joke of the whole movie. And
Speaker 1: then at the end she does I forget what the
Speaker 1: quote is, but she comes out to him and when
Speaker 1: he's really when he's when he's like already he's just
Speaker 1: been extorted, and she's like, btw, I helped extore you. Also,
Speaker 1: I'm gay Ce like it's amazing, It's yeah, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Same worth noting that this is, you know, a woman's story,
Speaker 1: believe it or not. But it was directed by a man,
Speaker 1: screenplay by a man. It was based on a novel
Speaker 1: by a woman, Olivia Goldsmith Um. It was produced by
Speaker 1: Scott Ruten and then many other almost entirely men. I
Speaker 1: think there's maybe one woman producing this, but it is
Speaker 1: still largely men behind the camera, per usual. Baby, Why
Speaker 1: why why do that? When this is such a female
Speaker 1: driven story, Caitlin, Men like money, um, also women like money.
Speaker 1: But you know, that's a conversation for another day. Under
Speaker 1: do you get thirty million dollars to make a movie
Speaker 1: about four women, all of them over fifty unless the
Speaker 1: directors a dude in a woman direct I mean we
Speaker 1: still barely let a woman to act wonder Woman. True.
Speaker 1: And it is many years later, right, and I mean
Speaker 1: Katherine Bigela was directing movies his first Wives Club, Violence, Violence,
Speaker 1: They would someone would have already hanging upside down by cycle,
Speaker 1: right when when like waterboarded, whenever Diane Keaton hits her therapist,
Speaker 1: it would have been with a machette. It's Tarantino's first
Speaker 1: It's just feet, it's just first Westat. I also think
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that, you know, while this is a
Speaker 1: you know, a nineties feminist text, this is still a
Speaker 1: movie where the women are pretty much all consumed by
Speaker 1: the men in their lives, Like the men are motivating
Speaker 1: their choices there, you know, and it is to get
Speaker 1: revenge or justice against the men, but it's still like
Speaker 1: they're being motivated and riven by men. That's definitely true,
Speaker 1: But I also don't mind it for what this movie is. Like,
Speaker 1: this movie is a revenge fantasy for women who have
Speaker 1: been wronged by their husbands. And if that's the audience, like,
Speaker 1: it would be great to see them just start a
Speaker 1: small business, I guess. But like, but like, this is
Speaker 1: a revenge fantasy franchise and just and men, but I mean,
Speaker 1: like men get so many of those where they like,
Speaker 1: there's a ba jillion movies about a man seeking out revenge,
Speaker 1: usually because someone killed his wife wife, but I see
Speaker 1: slash most movies. But like, I mean First Wives Club,
Speaker 1: I agree that. I mean it is like the nineties
Speaker 1: version of they are tied to their men culturally at
Speaker 1: this time. I don't think that that is too far
Speaker 1: off from what would have been true for many women still,
Speaker 1: I mean, my my mom wants to get a divorce
Speaker 1: in but like financially couldn't get a divorce And it
Speaker 1: seems like um on a in a much on a
Speaker 1: much more privileged level. That's true to some extent for
Speaker 1: these women as well. And I just I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like that it's a revenge fantasy because that's why
Speaker 1: people watch this movie. That's why people watch kill Bill
Speaker 1: is because it is cathartic and exciting and like, no
Speaker 1: one's going out and doing this in real life. It
Speaker 1: would be far too expensive, but it is. No one
Speaker 1: has the resources to have a building in Manhattan to
Speaker 1: turn into your revenge factory. But that's a really fun fantasy.
Speaker 1: I wonder if the novel was written in the eighties,
Speaker 1: because it's got to go go eighties energy. I think
Speaker 1: with all the wealth having a broken down building in
Speaker 1: Manhattan came out in ninety two. And the screenwriter of
Speaker 1: this movie, I guess it's worth mentioning while he is
Speaker 1: a man and we have to count that against him. Uh.
Speaker 1: He is also the writer of Steel Magnolias and as
Speaker 1: of Attraction. Um so he. I mean, we we have
Speaker 1: not covered either of those movies, but he seems to
Speaker 1: be commonly tapped to write movies about I cannot wait
Speaker 1: for your Steel Magnolia's Day. I'm surprised it's taking us
Speaker 1: just everybody gets juiced. Everybody has to drink juice. One
Speaker 1: thing I liked. Another thing I liked about this movie
Speaker 1: is I liked the scene where they're in the room
Speaker 1: full of Open Flames, which isn't really a movie about
Speaker 1: friendship between women if they're not sitting in a dangerous
Speaker 1: room full of candles at some point drinking wine and
Speaker 1: hashing it out. It reminds me of the scene and
Speaker 1: Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants where they go to like
Speaker 1: the place where their mom's met and like baby gymnastics,
Speaker 1: pregnant Lady gymnastics, uh like once a year. I believe
Speaker 1: that that is what it is called. But they have
Speaker 1: a similar scene and in it is they talk about Cynthia,
Speaker 1: who I think her press since in the narrative is
Speaker 1: very in and out, and sometimes it gets it's this
Speaker 1: movie gets so rompy that you forget why they're kind
Speaker 1: of what motivated them to do it, but then you
Speaker 1: occasionally come back to grounding it of I really, I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought that scene was very sweet where they were
Speaker 1: like revisiting memories and yes, is is Cynthia's letter kind
Speaker 1: of just like a random Chekhov's gun to keep the
Speaker 1: second act moving. Sure, absolutely no one's gonna argue it's not,
Speaker 1: but but I did. I I liked the the and
Speaker 1: that's where the um Leslie Gore Karaoke is introduced is
Speaker 1: in the I don't know. I thought that scene was
Speaker 1: very sweet and it was like a nice reminder in
Speaker 1: the middle of the movie of like, oh, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is why we're here. It's so nice to see, you know,
Speaker 1: women bonding, women having fun in a movie, women throwing
Speaker 1: golden globes at each other writing Yeah, and honestly that's
Speaker 1: my listening. Imagine being at a place in life where
Speaker 1: you can have a golden globe to throw. Incredible. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it is worth at least touching on the
Speaker 1: representation of mental health and suicidality in this movie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't even quite know what to say about it,
Speaker 1: but it's it's definitely not well informed. Let's let's just say,
Speaker 1: I mean it's not well informed. I think that it
Speaker 1: is like, you know, employing a number of tropes um
Speaker 1: in order to fit the exact plot of this That
Speaker 1: is not responsible. It it implies that a single event
Speaker 1: in your life would would drive you to this. It
Speaker 1: doesn't even really address the mental health aspect of that
Speaker 1: at all. Uh. There's also in that weird letter later
Speaker 1: where she was like, maybe it wasn't my husband, perhaps
Speaker 1: it was loneliness, and you're like, Okay, there, I I
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's in what direction of helpful
Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, I think that it is like another
Speaker 1: example of like something that should ideally be a responsible
Speaker 1: mental health discussion being used as a plot point, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think. And I also, uh, I don't think
Speaker 1: it was done with intention to harm anyone, but it
Speaker 1: just was kind of lazy writing. Sure, and it's not
Speaker 1: the worst example that we've seen of like mental health
Speaker 1: suicidality representation, but it certainly wasn't handled the best way
Speaker 1: that it could have been. No, but I mean I
Speaker 1: also did like, and I guess I want to know
Speaker 1: what you guys think about this too. I did like
Speaker 1: even though like the way they discuss it. Again, a
Speaker 1: lot of the ways they discuss things is flawed, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it's good major suffering for no reason. She's
Speaker 1: suffering because we're not talking to her about the act
Speaker 1: that our attention is pointed at each other and not
Speaker 1: at the dog. And it's it's my fault because I
Speaker 1: spoil her and this is the result. Don't spoil your dog,
Speaker 1: ignore them, ignore your dogs. But but they talk about
Speaker 1: at that lunch, like how their friend died by suicide,
Speaker 1: and yeah, like I forget which character is, but one
Speaker 1: says why do you think she did it? And then
Speaker 1: they discuss it, which it is not a laser focused
Speaker 1: perfect discussion of mental health, um, but it is. It
Speaker 1: is a discussion that realistically, these women would have had.
Speaker 1: I wish that there was kind of a more defining
Speaker 1: like this is where the movie stands on this issue,
Speaker 1: the way it takes very strong stands on other things.
Speaker 1: But again, the fact that there is a discussion at all,
Speaker 1: even if it is definitely flawed, I was surprised that
Speaker 1: that discussion was even had. And then again because this
Speaker 1: woman's death is used as a plot point pretty I
Speaker 1: mean like pretty transparently. The only response to why do
Speaker 1: you think she did it? Was Goldie Han basically starting
Speaker 1: to form the First Wives Club, where she's like, well,
Speaker 1: she probably gave him the best years of her life,
Speaker 1: sacrificed her youth, always put herself last to bolster his ego,
Speaker 1: his drive, his ambition, and just as her dignity was
Speaker 1: hanging by a thread, he just lobbed it off by
Speaker 1: running out with some preschooler I'm guessing. And at that
Speaker 1: point she's already talking about herself and the discussion of
Speaker 1: mental health has ended, right, Yeah, that preschooler being Heather
Speaker 1: lock Layer. So there's there's that incredible m um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is there is there anything else that anyone would like
Speaker 1: to talk about? I love Gonna. I think this movie
Speaker 1: is not perfect and wonderful. It's it's perfectly flawed. I
Speaker 1: think for what it misses, its heart is pretty sweet
Speaker 1: and it's I guess if you saw it, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you are a divorced or or the child
Speaker 1: of divorced. This movie just hit certain notes that Like
Speaker 1: the other thing we haven't even brought up yet is
Speaker 1: that it's about divorce. Like, you know, I used to
Speaker 1: go to movies when I was a kid my parents,
Speaker 1: but when I was seven, and they were about families.
Speaker 1: So that's like not my picture. Or if it is
Speaker 1: about divorce, it's like some kind of drama. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: Mrs staff Fire is another one that's just like so
Speaker 1: emotionally rought. That's it's so hard. But yeah, so many
Speaker 1: Hollywood movies are about like the nuclear family unit, and
Speaker 1: at the nineties started to crack that open, and this
Speaker 1: movie did it in a way that was like fun
Speaker 1: and the trajectory of the characters leaving you know, is out,
Speaker 1: not back into their relationships, except for Bet and I
Speaker 1: think that her intention was set from the jump of
Speaker 1: the movie too. After like watching it, once you've seen it,
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, they plant their seeds and they all
Speaker 1: just grow so neatly. Uh Like, but yeah, it's I
Speaker 1: think it's cool. It's about divorced. I think it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's a bunch of ladies that aren't. I think it's
Speaker 1: cool that their peak their peak performances. These are brilliant actors.
Speaker 1: The whole cast is perfect, and everybody just is having
Speaker 1: so much fun. And even watching it again with this
Speaker 1: lens of like hous this movie made. How does it
Speaker 1: feel to watch? What are these performances? Like? I still
Speaker 1: slip into like Goldie Hawn's character and Diane Keaton's character
Speaker 1: is just Diane Keaton, and I'm still like, oh Annie,
Speaker 1: it's just so fun. It's a fun watch. It's a romp.
Speaker 1: I really yeah, I really loved this movie. And it
Speaker 1: gets the same thing wrong that white feminism gets wrong.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's very reflective of itself. It's time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't take you back in time and make you
Speaker 1: be a divorce kid who sees it. But let me
Speaker 1: tell you it really hit U. Certain moms really laughed
Speaker 1: harder than other moms. There there's I had like a
Speaker 1: few quick last things. The way the movie ends of
Speaker 1: the Three First Wives, it is suggested that Bette Midler
Speaker 1: and her husband that scene that shall not be named
Speaker 1: where they are probably gonna get back together, they danced together.
Speaker 1: And when that happened, I was like, oh no, everyone's
Speaker 1: not getting back together, right, No, no, no, And then thankfully, mercifully,
Speaker 1: no one else gets back together. We find out that
Speaker 1: Goldie Hawn has a younger boyfriend, amazing, and that that
Speaker 1: great like Diane Keaton voiceover where she was like, my husband,
Speaker 1: you know, said he had changed and he wanted to
Speaker 1: come back and I told him to go to hell,
Speaker 1: and it was great. Yeah. I just I wish that
Speaker 1: Bette Miller had just taken the business. But you know what,
Speaker 1: fine one for three ain't bad. You need a morty too,
Speaker 1: because men, as much as I love to admit it,
Speaker 1: have feelings like and uh like, if men can't process
Speaker 1: what they're experiencing, then we're perpetually fucked. Like part of
Speaker 1: what we'd ask men to do is fully have their emotions.
Speaker 1: So if Morty did go through a midlife crisis, panicked,
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with his life, you know
Speaker 1: who knows. You can apply whatever you want on to
Speaker 1: his character. Was he feeling pressure, was he feeling failure?
Speaker 1: Was he feeling inadequacy? He expressed it. He made mistakes
Speaker 1: and then he made a choice to walk back those mistakes.
Speaker 1: Like Shelly doesn't dump him, he like leaves her in
Speaker 1: the lamborgaining that he's willing to walk away from Men
Speaker 1: need to make those journeys too, and the other two
Speaker 1: men do not. They remain shitty characters. So I think
Speaker 1: it was cool to give whether or not that should
Speaker 1: have gotten back together with him. It can be an
Speaker 1: open question for whatever your own familial issues project onto
Speaker 1: that scene. You can apply your own filter. But I
Speaker 1: was really glad that one of the male characters had
Speaker 1: to come face to face with his mistakes. And then
Speaker 1: the trajectory is that he's going to be dealing with
Speaker 1: that that he left, that he's going to have to
Speaker 1: rebuild his home, and it's not just on Bette Midler.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I thought that was a cool
Speaker 1: art for old Moore. True, I always, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: always saying that toxic masculinity. One of the things that
Speaker 1: it stems from is men not being able to feel,
Speaker 1: process express their emotion and such a huge pressure on
Speaker 1: them to not And in this movie, like there's pressure
Speaker 1: on Morty to not have any feelings. He's supposed to
Speaker 1: have this perfect plastic bride. Why isn't he happy with
Speaker 1: his money in this new young he got all the
Speaker 1: toys that he was supposed to have and he's not happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that's a necessary arc. If there aren't
Speaker 1: more Marty's Morty's, if they're all just the other two guys,
Speaker 1: then there's no point in ever trying, you know. Does
Speaker 1: that also mean that that scene at the Animal Sarah
Speaker 1: Jessica Parker in the Lamborghini Victor Garber like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: fucking but then like that's that was his limb, that
Speaker 1: was his Lamborghi. Yes, they sold the Lamborghini a Christie's
Speaker 1: and fucking made Sarah Jessica Parker by that's a great detail.
Speaker 1: The last thing was what their end game is because
Speaker 1: with the first wives called, I'm like, okay, they have
Speaker 1: one job and then where does this business. Go from
Speaker 1: there and opening the women's shelter for in in Cynthia's name,
Speaker 1: while of very bougie white feminist because they started a
Speaker 1: women shelter in Manhattan, Um, which is helpful to women
Speaker 1: exactly like them, not to I mean, not to knock
Speaker 1: any women shelter that's opening. But it's like that's a
Speaker 1: very this movie's feminism version of opening a women's shelter
Speaker 1: with an opulent party with Avona Trump. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't love it. I do love the intention, and I
Speaker 1: did love that that that the story at very least
Speaker 1: Um says, Okay, now that they've completed this task, you
Speaker 1: know they've gotten their revenge, and then they move on
Speaker 1: to helping other people. That's cool. I like that, Like
Speaker 1: it's you rarely see that at the end of a
Speaker 1: revenge movie. You see the revenge be gotten and then
Speaker 1: you're like whoo who but they but you see that
Speaker 1: they're starting the next chapter. And I appreciate that. One thing.
Speaker 1: I don't do they ever go after Cynthia's husband. No,
Speaker 1: they should, oh yeah, oh yeah, I wonder if they
Speaker 1: make him give money or something. I'm in the and
Speaker 1: I'm just reading I read a piece on the adaptation
Speaker 1: in the book they do. In the book they go
Speaker 1: after him for insider trading, but in the movie it's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think that Cynthia has a significantly
Speaker 1: smaller presence in the movie than she does in the book.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised, you know. Also at the very
Speaker 1: end um, when Sara Jessic Parker's character is being hit
Speaker 1: on by Victor Garber, she says something to him like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's going on in there? A lot of battered women
Speaker 1: dancing around? Which is it? I guess a joke that
Speaker 1: probably didn't need to be in the movie, but it
Speaker 1: makes her look like makes I think it's gonna play
Speaker 1: of shitty character. You have to be shitty. I did.
Speaker 1: I did giggle at how insensitive that was of her,
Speaker 1: because it does make sense that did two shittiest people
Speaker 1: and then they would end up together. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't dislike that. No, I find myself in a
Speaker 1: weird I am open to being wrong about this, or
Speaker 1: at least a subjectively wrong. I often I am fond
Speaker 1: of characters people hate because they're bad people, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're bad, They're not a good person, there's character, even
Speaker 1: if there are moves towards redemption. They are bad and
Speaker 1: they will remain bad. They've done nothing to tell you
Speaker 1: that they are good. I loved how much Three Billboards
Speaker 1: split the world of new nerdy movie watchers. I fell
Speaker 1: in the camp who loved it, and I was in
Speaker 1: a theater that laughed really hard at all the things
Speaker 1: that I thought were funny in that movie. And I
Speaker 1: love Sam Rockwell's character because he's a piece of ship
Speaker 1: and he's I love seeing this unrepented, like it's not
Speaker 1: even unrepentant, because he's willingly unaware. Like that's a bad person.
Speaker 1: We are supposed to not like him. And the fact
Speaker 1: that he doesn't get his come up and is on us,
Speaker 1: that's like a reflection of us. We don't do that
Speaker 1: to bad people. We let them thrive, they continue to flourish,
Speaker 1: they just go on on their rampage of vengeance. Like
Speaker 1: that's how that movie sets off. And I totally get, like,
Speaker 1: how disgusting that a cop gets to be this evil
Speaker 1: in a movie. I'm like, it's so real. That is
Speaker 1: honestly accurate. And if that character relented and gave you
Speaker 1: a little one trickle a tear, it's the cheapest ship.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, there's it's there's better performances than others.
Speaker 1: They don't know if there's a straight line between say
Speaker 1: or Jessica Parker's performance in this movie and three billboards.
Speaker 1: Uh found it one converted book that didn't nobody thought
Speaker 1: would make money that was only four old ladies, and
Speaker 1: one converted play that nobody thought would make money that
Speaker 1: was pretty much just for old ladies to make the
Speaker 1: mad But uh, yeah, I love a character that's really
Speaker 1: good at being bad, And I would be disappointed if
Speaker 1: Shelley said anything less shitty. But it is shitty, Like
Speaker 1: what an awful thing to say? I love it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Hey does this movie pass the back
Speaker 1: to test the chance? Yeah? It does? Yeah, truly does.
Speaker 1: Anna and her daughter Chris, Anna and her mom Anna
Speaker 1: Brenda Alice. I'll talk to each other in various combinations. Um,
Speaker 1: Chris never talks about anyone she's talking and only talks
Speaker 1: about her dad like she's totally plot motivated character. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting these ladies relationships with the men
Speaker 1: in their life and how much it affects their decision making,
Speaker 1: Like you were saying that that they are really tied
Speaker 1: to the men's decisions in their lives, and the movie
Speaker 1: is kind of about them discovering agency. Uh. But I
Speaker 1: love these characters. I think they are unique. There's time
Speaker 1: stamped in both sixty nine and in ninety six, and
Speaker 1: I like, I'm still very fond of them. I still
Speaker 1: am really fond of like Bette Midler's character reminding me
Speaker 1: of my mom and being in a movie. I'm still
Speaker 1: like tickled by Goldie Hawn being a movie star, who's
Speaker 1: a movie star in a movie talking about being a
Speaker 1: movie star and all the shitty things we do to
Speaker 1: movie stars. And Diane Keaton's perfect. She's just ridiculously perfect
Speaker 1: in this movie. So the three of them together, I
Speaker 1: just it's dynamite. Don't if you haven't seen First Wives Club,
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised. But if you haven't get it, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's more of a hoot than I remembered. I
Speaker 1: laughed harder than I remember. It's the jokes land more
Speaker 1: often than they don't, and when they don't, they sud
Speaker 1: in this way that like resonates how good the rest
Speaker 1: were or how far we've come. You know, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I mean and the end, the end is genuinely very
Speaker 1: affecting the dance. Oh man, if you're crying in that crying.
Speaker 1: I have to wear sunglasses concerts because people singing makes
Speaker 1: me cry. So I'm stuck from the jump, like I
Speaker 1: cry the first time they sing and they and then
Speaker 1: by the end, Yeah, it's the sweetest. If you don't
Speaker 1: want to watch The First Wives Club, fine, but do
Speaker 1: go on YouTube and watch the closing scene, which you
Speaker 1: can do, and it's worth it. Hey, let's write the
Speaker 1: movie on our nipple scales zero to five nipples based
Speaker 1: on its representation of women. M This one's a bit
Speaker 1: tricky because there's a lot that it does right. There's
Speaker 1: a lot that it does to the stage for more
Speaker 1: inclusive and intersectional feminist texts to come out later. I
Speaker 1: wonder what wouldn't have been made if that thirty million
Speaker 1: dollars movie hadn't made a hundred and eighty million dollars.
Speaker 1: I wonder what you could draw a straight line too?
Speaker 1: Sorry I did interrupt with that, was like, wow, I
Speaker 1: want that's genuine wonder, you know. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: a good a good stepping stone, but also okay, thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you for your guys women helping other women beautiful.
Speaker 1: I felt like where the roof was, I have no help.
Speaker 1: I wanted to just like where I was at appreciate it. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, just wow, I'm coming up with this all
Speaker 1: by myself, but I think I'm going to give it
Speaker 1: three nippos. Incredible. But yeah, I mean, you know, as
Speaker 1: we've discussed, there's three women who are middle aged. We
Speaker 1: never get to see women like that have their own
Speaker 1: story in a movie. Um, they're seeking revenge on their
Speaker 1: on the shitty men in their lives. That is cool. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it is a very like hyper privileged white
Speaker 1: feminism story that excludes a lot of women. I do
Speaker 1: like the way the Chris character and queerness is handled
Speaker 1: for the most part. That was I think she's my
Speaker 1: favorite character. So that said, I will give all three
Speaker 1: of my nipples to Chris Annie's daughter. I do three
Speaker 1: as well. Wow, incredible. I had no idea you were
Speaker 1: going to do that. I will, you will? You always
Speaker 1: go first, so you never you you never get to
Speaker 1: You're always setting the tone, and I'm like, well let's
Speaker 1: mixed things up. Um okay, So yeah, I I I
Speaker 1: really really really enjoyed this movie, and I think it
Speaker 1: is like it seems like like you're saying, Caitlin Um
Speaker 1: that it's financial success like that. Unfortunately, we you know,
Speaker 1: we live in a society, right, and so so you know,
Speaker 1: what is financially successful will inform what gets made in
Speaker 1: the future. And so a movie with older women, um,
Speaker 1: though they are very privileged older women, but that doing
Speaker 1: well does pave the way for a book club for
Speaker 1: another movie about rich that Diane Keaton is in. I
Speaker 1: almost got kicked out of that screen. I was with you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was. Michael and I were pretty drunk.
Speaker 1: I also took lots of cancel wine into that movie.
Speaker 1: It was it's like, what are you going to do for?
Speaker 1: You know? And then someone hushed me. I was like,
Speaker 1: are you fun? Are you kidding me? Are friendless? There?
Speaker 1: I'm like, go watch Grace and Frankie at your house
Speaker 1: if this is how you feel like, I came here
Speaker 1: to be annoying. But anyways, first off, Club, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I think it does have a place in history
Speaker 1: for paving the way for more inclusive movies. Um. I
Speaker 1: appreciate the swings it takes at social commentaries. Some of
Speaker 1: them really hit, others of them definitely miss in the
Speaker 1: modern sense. But the amount of issues that this movie
Speaker 1: takes on, whether they address it successfully or not, is
Speaker 1: kind of staggering. I mean, like we're talking about body image,
Speaker 1: we're talking about mental health, we're talking about queerness, we're
Speaker 1: talking about patriarchy, we're talking about age, like we're talking
Speaker 1: about money. It's like there is there is so much
Speaker 1: that is even. I mean, just seeing a movie this
Speaker 1: big and successful even attempt that many things is pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: And the performances are so good and I cried. And
Speaker 1: Victor Garber is such a dick is awful. It's so good.
Speaker 1: The way he's smiling at the conference table when they're
Speaker 1: talking divorce. Gee, I was, although there was okay in
Speaker 1: his first scene. In his first scene, he does say babe,
Speaker 1: and I was like, like, I I felt that, um.
Speaker 1: Also at the child molestation reveal didn't work for me,
Speaker 1: But if that is such a nineties reveal, um yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I do I still feel kind of like
Speaker 1: I just don't give the writers of this movie enough
Speaker 1: credit to think that they were giving they were doing
Speaker 1: subtext on how they wrote the younger female characters but
Speaker 1: that's just I don't know. That's that's still something I
Speaker 1: got stuck on. But other than that, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think this is an amazing movie. I look forward to
Speaker 1: watching it again. I hope people watch it for years
Speaker 1: to come. Also, you know, divorce visibility that didn't happen
Speaker 1: very much. Three nips just equal the one to three
Speaker 1: Goldie Bet Diane nipped for one. I'm passing out a
Speaker 1: fourth nip, but it's because I saw it then, and
Speaker 1: I think being fifteen and having elements of the storyline
Speaker 1: be close to my life except for the money part. Uh.
Speaker 1: It it felt to me way better than the movies
Speaker 1: of its era at handling what it was taking on.
Speaker 1: And it did take on so much. And I watched
Speaker 1: it at a time when movies were still like real,
Speaker 1: like I was in them and felt them, and like
Speaker 1: the story washed over me, and I wasn't watching for
Speaker 1: shots and angles and like thinking about the screenwriter reading
Speaker 1: the credits at all. Uh. It was crazy to see
Speaker 1: that life on screen then, and it's fun to watch now.
Speaker 1: And I think it's crazy that a movie that starts
Speaker 1: with a dear friend's death and is focused on divorce
Speaker 1: is like in my catalog of fun movies to watch.
Speaker 1: It's cool to see life be normal and crazy and
Speaker 1: stupid in the midst of all the big changes like
Speaker 1: death and divorce, because life is those ways, and those
Speaker 1: women had to figure out how to be themselves, how
Speaker 1: to be wives, how to be ex wives, how to
Speaker 1: be friends, how to lose someone, how to grieve, and
Speaker 1: they all did it like a hot mess. Um. I
Speaker 1: appreciate that they got to be mess I just think
Speaker 1: that there were There's enough going on in night. I'm
Speaker 1: reaching back. I'm trying. I climbed in my time travel
Speaker 1: machine and in four nipples for nipples, an extra one
Speaker 1: for christ the lesbian, and then one for all the ladies. Awesome,
Speaker 1: oh man, Caitly so much. I have fun, And every
Speaker 1: time I get to grace this seat, I feel like
Speaker 1: I tortured you with book Cassidy and The Sunday Kid,
Speaker 1: a movie I love, and then you tortured me with
Speaker 1: the Notebook, and I yelled about it a lot. But
Speaker 1: it is nice to be back. I think every this
Speaker 1: is just such a great movie. Kevilly, my sweet lady,
Speaker 1: was very excited because she loves this movie, and Kelly
Speaker 1: loves movies like who's afraid of Virginia Woolf. She likes
Speaker 1: people yelling at each other after drinking and this movie
Speaker 1: is like full of it. So just all the hot reads.
Speaker 1: Lot's a little line, where can people follow you online?
Speaker 1: And what would you like to plug? Oh on the online?
Speaker 1: I am at robot Caitlin on Twitter, I am at
Speaker 1: Caitlin is Tall on Instagram, Caitlin with a sea and
Speaker 1: all proper vowel snow wise. Uh. And I'm very excited
Speaker 1: that I have an album coming out on August secod.
Speaker 1: It's called Major, named after my dog, who you might
Speaker 1: have heard whining earlier in this recording. Uh. She It's
Speaker 1: I'm just very proud of it. It's good for all ages.
Speaker 1: There ain't no dirty words on it, which is kind
Speaker 1: of silly and exciting. I made a clean album for
Speaker 1: financial gain. I will be honest with you on this
Speaker 1: podcast that it was a financially motivated choice. I'm proud
Speaker 1: of the material. I think it's very good and warm,
Speaker 1: and also I wanted to do that and uh, I
Speaker 1: didn't really think about this sweet part. But right after
Speaker 1: the recording, a comic who was in the audience, a
Speaker 1: Buddy High Ben Kalina was. It was like midnight and
Speaker 1: they nobody had noticed that it was clean, which I
Speaker 1: was very relieved by. But when I mentioned it to
Speaker 1: the buddies I was talking to, my friend Ben pulled
Speaker 1: out his phone and texted his sister at midnight, like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's an album coming out that his cousin can listen to.
Speaker 1: Is a thirteen year old cousin who loves stand up
Speaker 1: and like isn't afraid of pish it or um, but
Speaker 1: also doesn't necessarily want to listen to that in the car.
Speaker 1: Uh So it occurred to me, it clicked that, like
Speaker 1: I made something that you could listen to when I
Speaker 1: loved stand up the most, when I would listen to
Speaker 1: all the dirty stuff when nobody was looking. But like
Speaker 1: it felt really cool, Like again, reach back in and
Speaker 1: just offer four little nipples, two tiny little kids out there.
Speaker 1: Uh so that's really cool. So yeah, you can listen
Speaker 1: with anybody. Um. I mean we've got a lot of
Speaker 1: listeners who are moms. Yeah, with your kids. If your
Speaker 1: child is aware of the existence of lesbian relationships, then
Speaker 1: they are good to go. Um. But yeah, that's it
Speaker 1: was really fun to record, and I actually listened to it.
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd listen to and I do you
Speaker 1: listen to the podcast? Do you listen to yourselves? As recorded?
Speaker 1: I edit, so I have to. You have to of course,
Speaker 1: what with the editing? Yeah, make me sound brilliant. Um,
Speaker 1: I can't listen. It's so hard. I'm like, oh, I'm stupid.
Speaker 1: I think everyone sound great, so yeah, perfect, But I
Speaker 1: was pleased with it. I can report having listened that
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty good. I didn't expect to gush
Speaker 1: this must about it, but there you go. I'm proud
Speaker 1: of the cell. I hope you really like it and
Speaker 1: don't hesitate where it can. People will be able to
Speaker 1: find it and buy it all over the all the things.
Speaker 1: It will be on the Spotify, it'll be on Apple Music, um,
Speaker 1: and anywhere you listen to or buy things digitally will
Speaker 1: be able to find it. Thank you to my label,
Speaker 1: Blonde Medicine for making all of that possible. I'm willing
Speaker 1: to be a shill for any other corporation that will
Speaker 1: do me papers or pay me, so stump on board.
Speaker 1: You can also find us on all the places that
Speaker 1: you find stuff, including on social media, where you can
Speaker 1: follow us at Pecto cast We've got our Patreon a
Speaker 1: k A Matreon, which is five dollars a month and
Speaker 1: you get to bonus episodes every month. Coming up on
Speaker 1: the patreon is my birthday month, August, Yes, in which
Speaker 1: we will be doing Jennifer's Body and Freaky Friday, So
Speaker 1: look forward to those. We've got merch that you can
Speaker 1: buy at t public dot com, slash the Bechtel Cast, all,
Speaker 1: all the classics, feminist icon, queer icon, feminism is the
Speaker 1: law now, et cetera. I have a nipple scale button
Speaker 1: on my jacket. Oh my good news. Where are you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Other than that, let's all let's all form a club,
Speaker 1: shall we. Let's make an LLC tonight. Okay, I'm calling
Speaker 1: my accountant. Does anybody know a good account No? Bye
Speaker 1: bye