Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always for
Speaker 1: tuning in. Hi. I'm Ben, my baby's my name is Nolan,
Speaker 1: and we are joined as always in spirit with our
Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. Today we'd like you to give
Speaker 1: it up for our guest super producer, are returning guest
Speaker 1: super producer j J. Pauseway, Hey, pauseway for the Causeway
Speaker 1: there we go. Uh no, no, you and I are.
Speaker 1: You and I are going to be on the road
Speaker 1: a lot as we go towards this lovely Halloween season.
Speaker 1: I am super pumped. This is my most favorite time
Speaker 1: of the year. Uh you know in theory, the leaves
Speaker 1: are falling, they're cool, strange winds blowing. It's very Ray Bradberry,
Speaker 1: something wicked. This way comes esque, except now it's ninety
Speaker 1: degrees outside. Yeah, it's weird, right, Like, I feel like
Speaker 1: we're in permost summer. Do you think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: like there's gonna be just rotting jack O lanterns out
Speaker 1: in the streets, just like crushed from the heat. Is
Speaker 1: this the New Normals? It might be the New Normal Band,
Speaker 1: which is about as scary as it gets, and it
Speaker 1: makes me identify strongly with all of our Australian listeners
Speaker 1: out there. Have you know what what temperature is it
Speaker 1: usually around the holidays for you in Australia? Is it hot?
Speaker 1: Is it unseasonably so? Like one time I was in
Speaker 1: Florida during the Christmas season or the you know, Hanneka
Speaker 1: holiday season, and I just couldn't get into it. Man,
Speaker 1: it was just too hot. I I need some I
Speaker 1: need some chill here. Anyway, despite the fact that the
Speaker 1: temperature doesn't agree with us or hasn't gotten the memo yet,
Speaker 1: we are full on in the fall and I am
Speaker 1: gonna embrace it. I'm gonna chase it. And I think
Speaker 1: I might have a weird idea for a costume. What
Speaker 1: do you think about a drummer boy? Yeah, would you
Speaker 1: have like like the full on the whole nine, like
Speaker 1: with the with the shoulder straps and the your rudiments,
Speaker 1: practice your rudiments, rudiments, I remember rudiments. I would also
Speaker 1: do some paradidals, paradis and rudiments. Yeah. So we're asking
Speaker 1: this question for a reason because today's story takes us
Speaker 1: to the Civil War, takes us to the adventures of
Speaker 1: someone known as the drummer Boy of Chickamauga. His name
Speaker 1: is John Klem and he was a twelve year old
Speaker 1: who became a Civil War hero. There's a lot to
Speaker 1: unpack in that sentence, right, that's right, Ben. He fought
Speaker 1: with a twenty second Michigan regiment. Horseshoe ridge. That's hard
Speaker 1: to say, horseshoe horseshoe. That's really tough. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I'm having a hard time with that word, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna getrough it. I'm gonna say it
Speaker 1: many more times in this episode. Um. But he had nothing,
Speaker 1: um to arm himself but his drum. It's very important
Speaker 1: and a basically the equivalent of what you'd consider a
Speaker 1: sawed off shotgun today, which is pretty baller if you
Speaker 1: ask me, Yes, saw down must get so sacrificed some
Speaker 1: accuracy there close combat, though, right, one would imagine. So
Speaker 1: this was a very, very bloody war, as we've pointed
Speaker 1: out previously. I'm always startled that we still call it
Speaker 1: the Civil War. It's not him things civil about it.
Speaker 1: Let's look at where Clem comes from. So he was
Speaker 1: born in Ohio in August thirteen, eighteen fifty one. His
Speaker 1: parents named him John Joseph Clem, which is a cool name,
Speaker 1: and they originally named him John Joseph Clem with a K,
Speaker 1: but he changed it so his last name was spelled
Speaker 1: Clem with a C. He thought this sounded a little
Speaker 1: more American. And nowadays everyone's change and sees twok's you know,
Speaker 1: up is down, Like everything's all mixed up, dogs and
Speaker 1: cats sleeping together Pandemonium Industry sponkors. I had a friend
Speaker 1: growing up whose name was Clem, and it wasn't short
Speaker 1: for anything. It doesn't sound like a name that would
Speaker 1: be short for something like Clement Clemson or Clementine. Just
Speaker 1: Clem or Clem Jeman, like Clem Jiman. No, it's true
Speaker 1: um so he uh would later Actually, he who's obviously
Speaker 1: a huge fan of changing things about his name, because
Speaker 1: he would later add Lincoln Um to replace his Christian
Speaker 1: given middle name. And they were vegetable farmers. That was
Speaker 1: their stock in trade, and John was the guy that
Speaker 1: would kind of be their door to door salesman, going
Speaker 1: from home to home in the little burg where he
Speaker 1: grew up, selling fresh produce. Yeah, and his younger siblings
Speaker 1: would tag along with him. Unfortunately, their mother, Magdalene, was
Speaker 1: hit by a train in eighteen sixty one and passed away.
Speaker 1: John's father remarried. There's a guy named Roman Clem, and
Speaker 1: you know this wasn't some horrible fairy tale with an
Speaker 1: evil stepmother. She was fine with the kids. But John
Speaker 1: soon struck out to make his own way at a
Speaker 1: very young age. His childhood is essentially at this point
Speaker 1: just a montage of him attempting to join the army.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be in military service ever since the
Speaker 1: Confederate rebels fired on Fort Sumter, which officially started the
Speaker 1: Civil War here in the US. He approached the third
Speaker 1: Ohio Regiment of Volunteers when they were passing through Newark,
Speaker 1: and he asked the commanding officer to take him on.
Speaker 1: He said, look, just let me be your drummer boy.
Speaker 1: And according to Clem in uh from Nursery to Battlefield
Speaker 1: when he wrote himself, he when he asked the commanding
Speaker 1: officer to take him on, he said, he looked me over,
Speaker 1: laughed and said he wasn't enlisting infants. A pretty definitive pass, right,
Speaker 1: That's a pretty hard pass on the kid. But Clem
Speaker 1: did not give up, and he actually uh, he'd been
Speaker 1: thinking about this for a minute because he had asked
Speaker 1: this of his father, Roman Um As as mentioned in
Speaker 1: that very same letter that you were talking about. Ben.
Speaker 1: He says, father, I'd like Matty Well to be a
Speaker 1: drummer boy. Can I go to the Union Army? What nonsense?
Speaker 1: Boy replied father, you are not yet and y'alls old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I love that little drummer boy. American drummer boy
Speaker 1: has like a British schoolboy accent, but of course he does.
Speaker 1: I love that people are still saying touch. This is
Speaker 1: back when Tutt was in play, is still in play
Speaker 1: thanks to you. Ben. I don't know, man, I feel
Speaker 1: like sometimes our friend groups. You know, I told you
Speaker 1: I got banned from using it with one friend who
Speaker 1: does that. Whooo bands you from using a very close
Speaker 1: friends who are doing their best, doing God's work. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start referring to you as a king Tutt
Speaker 1: oh boy. So this is funny. I like this scene
Speaker 1: you set here, Noel, because it's a dead her time
Speaker 1: conversation right, as recalled by John's sister Elizabeth. His dad
Speaker 1: shuts him down when he's like you know, why can't
Speaker 1: I go to the union, Nami? And I love that voice.
Speaker 1: By the way, Papa, Papa, I still have he mus
Speaker 1: want to be a drummer boy. And so they finished
Speaker 1: eating and John says, I'm going to go out for
Speaker 1: a swim, and what he means by that is I'm
Speaker 1: going to run away from home. That's great, that's like,
Speaker 1: that's like the dad thearettes. It's the drummer boy version
Speaker 1: of going for smokes. And this wasn't uncommon. You know.
Speaker 1: We we read a lot about the horrors of child
Speaker 1: soldiers in the modern day, but we have to remember
Speaker 1: this occurred in earlier eras as well, and the Civil
Speaker 1: War was no different. It was not uncommon for kids
Speaker 1: as young as fourteen to go and actually fight as soldiers.
Speaker 1: And uh some sometimes it would be a family affair,
Speaker 1: like a father grandfather would come with one of their
Speaker 1: younger children and the army would accept both of them.
Speaker 1: Child soldier is sort of like a tale as old
Speaker 1: as time, right, I mean, that's something that we've seen
Speaker 1: in sort of warlord type countries like in Africa, for example,
Speaker 1: in more recent times, right exactly, and in previous empires,
Speaker 1: we've also seen child soldiers. So in his in that
Speaker 1: essay we mentioned earlier, from nursery to battlefield, Clym says
Speaker 1: he took a train to Cincinnati and that's where he
Speaker 1: approached the Michigan Regiment, the twenty swon, and they rejected
Speaker 1: him at first as well, but he just didn't give up.
Speaker 1: He just kept following them around and they said, you're
Speaker 1: not part of our crew, and he just kept walking
Speaker 1: in their wake. Eventually they let him be their drummer boy,
Speaker 1: but they couldn't legally put him on the payroll because
Speaker 1: he was too young. Presumably, when he's tagging along pulling
Speaker 1: at their coat, is he also beating his little drum? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess he brought a drum with him. But it's
Speaker 1: it's shady, it's really sketchy. Because the adults decided that
Speaker 1: they would they since they couldn't legally pay a child soldier,
Speaker 1: they decided that they would just dig into their pockets
Speaker 1: and give them thirteen dollars a month out of their
Speaker 1: own cash a month. You say, do we even have
Speaker 1: any frame of reference to inflation calculators. Yeah, it's more
Speaker 1: than thirteen dollars. Now that's fair. Still pretty much a pittance,
Speaker 1: a sub pittance. He's not Yeah, he's not getting rich
Speaker 1: off this, but yeah, they they gave him his own
Speaker 1: soldiers uniform and they had to, you know, cut it
Speaker 1: down from a man's size uniform too, because there, you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't make they didn't didn't make child sized uniforms.
Speaker 1: That'd be weird, that would be a very strange thing.
Speaker 1: So they did it at least this once. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's strange because John Clem became a private on May one,
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three. He was eleven years old. How much
Speaker 1: responsibility did you have when you were eleven? You have
Speaker 1: to answer it. I don't wonder to feel put on
Speaker 1: spot or you either j J or are you listening?
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking like I was trash when I was eleven.
Speaker 1: I was in boy Scouts. I guess that's a what's
Speaker 1: what's a responsibility? Though? You know it's a responsibility to
Speaker 1: your pack, to your pack master? Is that what they
Speaker 1: call it? Pack leader? Den leader? Den mother? Well? Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm maybe I'm being unfair to myself, but
Speaker 1: I just may call it a different time I could
Speaker 1: I could have dealt with boy Scouts, But I don't
Speaker 1: know how I would have dealt with being a soldier
Speaker 1: at the age of eleven. You know, well, you would
Speaker 1: have been more prepared than some with the skills that
Speaker 1: you learned from boy scouts. I'm gonna say you would
Speaker 1: have been able to navigate the woods and a panch
Speaker 1: who needs a knot? Yeah, I got you. You would
Speaker 1: have at least been able to tie a knot in
Speaker 1: order to mount your tiny drum on your slight frame
Speaker 1: and follow around the soldiers. I would have been annoyed,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you. There's guys following you around beating a drama
Speaker 1: like kid dispense with the drumming. I have to say,
Speaker 1: I guess it's for morale and it's for people to
Speaker 1: have a sense of rhythm when they're marching. But I
Speaker 1: never I never got the the drummer boy thing and
Speaker 1: just didn't get it. But we know that he didn't
Speaker 1: stay a drummer boy, right. He became he becomes a private,
Speaker 1: not a pirate, and then later he becomes a legend.
Speaker 1: Is that true? It absolutely is true. So yeah, after
Speaker 1: the big the big boy Battle Gettysburg, that's the one
Speaker 1: people remember. Um hey, chickamauguas up there too. Because it's
Speaker 1: it's fun to say. People likely remember it for that
Speaker 1: reason alone. But it was also a huge battle. It
Speaker 1: was the second highest body count of any battle in
Speaker 1: the Civil War. But Gettysburg is just so iconic. I
Speaker 1: think it's easy for number two to fall by the wayside.
Speaker 1: Any Civil War buffs out there are going to hand
Speaker 1: me my hat and then tell me that I'm absolutely
Speaker 1: full full of it. But you know, not being a
Speaker 1: Civil War buff um, I was not as aware of
Speaker 1: the events of Chickamaugua. Um. So here's the thing. On
Speaker 1: September eighteenth, in eighteen sixty three, the Union and Confederate
Speaker 1: forces absolutely shredded each other. Uh. And this was surrounding
Speaker 1: the Chickamaugua Creek right here in Georgia. That's true North Georgia. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Confederate forces were there to stop the Union from
Speaker 1: marching southward, and they succeeded, but at grizzly and profound costs.
Speaker 1: At the end of the battle, thirty four thousand people
Speaker 1: were dead. Thirty four thousand soldiers right and John Klem
Speaker 1: and his pals in the twenty two Michigan were part
Speaker 1: of the group that beat back the Union advance, and
Speaker 1: he says, from his essay where a lot of our
Speaker 1: information is coming from. He says, at Chickamaugua, I carried
Speaker 1: a musket, the barrel of which had been sawed off
Speaker 1: to a length suitable to my side. That makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wasn't like terminator style, single handedly blasted fools. He
Speaker 1: probably still had to hold it too handed, and it
Speaker 1: was probably a bit of a sight to behold with,
Speaker 1: like his sort of weird baggy, oversized trimmed down uniform
Speaker 1: and his little drum and his little tiny musket situation.
Speaker 1: I mean, this kid had some stones my friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's a weird human moment here in the middle
Speaker 1: of this bloody battle. There's a Confederate colonel and he
Speaker 1: sees this tiny boy in his Union uniform with his rifle,
Speaker 1: and the colonel apparently runs up to the boy and says, surrender,
Speaker 1: you damned a little yankee. And then he says, I
Speaker 1: think the best thing it might have, a chap like
Speaker 1: you can do is drop that gun. And so what
Speaker 1: does clim do. He shoots the colonel and then he
Speaker 1: runs away and he becomes a legend. Yeah, shooting the colonel.
Speaker 1: That should also be a euphemism for something. I don't
Speaker 1: know what, right, right, you really shot the colonel on
Speaker 1: that one. But that's a good one. So he gets
Speaker 1: promoted and now he's a sergeant. He's twelve years old,
Speaker 1: old sergeant. This is bonkers, oh the way he describes it.
Speaker 1: Another one of his essays, Um, he says that this
Speaker 1: gentleman wrote up and and told him to he says, surrender, you,
Speaker 1: damn little yankee. He's like, no, one calls me a
Speaker 1: damn little yankee, and then he blasts him. He didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't. He didn't drop his gun and give up
Speaker 1: and be taken. He actually shot this guy right up
Speaker 1: his horse. And words spread about this pint size uh
Speaker 1: new officer, um, and he kind of became almost like
Speaker 1: a symbol. Yeah. Yeah. They started calling him the drummer
Speaker 1: boy of Chickamaugua. Yeah. And this was great pr for
Speaker 1: the Union forces, which were relatively demoralized regarding the news
Speaker 1: of the Georgian Front. And he was a celebrity. He
Speaker 1: was their version of a wartime celebrity. Some people in
Speaker 1: Chicago got the kids measurements from his pals. In the
Speaker 1: twenty two Michigan infantry, and they gave him a new
Speaker 1: handmade uniform. I guess they just wanted to help out
Speaker 1: the effort. However, all was not Rosie headlines and Union
Speaker 1: praise for clim He soon fell into the very dark,
Speaker 1: dangerous side of the Civil War. He was already inundated
Speaker 1: in this violence, in this chaos. But in October of
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, he was actually captured by Confederate forces.
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, Ben, But thankfully, Um, we don't
Speaker 1: know too much about what happened. Well, maybe we do,
Speaker 1: is it? Is it? In his essays He probably wrote
Speaker 1: an essay about it. He seemed like a pretty pretty
Speaker 1: mouthy little kid. Um. I mean, I mean he wrote
Speaker 1: the essay later exactly Um. But he was eventually released
Speaker 1: as as part of a prisoner exchange, like an exchange
Speaker 1: of hostages basically um. And then he went on to
Speaker 1: continue under General George H. Thomas's Army of the Cumberland,
Speaker 1: and he himself sustained injuries several times during battle Um,
Speaker 1: during the Battle of Kinna Saw and Murfreesboro. I love
Speaker 1: murfrees Borrow. You want to say Murphy's Borrow, but it's
Speaker 1: murfrees borrow. That's how they get you Tennessee, Perryville, and Atlanta,
Speaker 1: right here in good old Atlanta, Georgia. UM. And then
Speaker 1: he got out in eighteen sixty four, and he was
Speaker 1: a teenager. Oh, we should say he didn't languish away
Speaker 1: in the Confederate prison. He was only there for two
Speaker 1: months and it was mainly used as propaganda. But you're
Speaker 1: right now, when he gets out, he's a teenager. He
Speaker 1: goes back to high school, he graduates in eighteen seventy,
Speaker 1: and he probably has You know that thousand leagues stare
Speaker 1: so common to a lot of people who have been
Speaker 1: through traumatic events, one would imagine, one would imagine, Man,
Speaker 1: it's true, like you said, he went back to high school,
Speaker 1: he graduated, but he had a taste, he had the
Speaker 1: taste of the soldier's life at this point, Like he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't think you can
Speaker 1: go through something like that in such during such formative
Speaker 1: years and not it's actually I let me rephrase that.
Speaker 1: I would think you would never want to do it ever, ever,
Speaker 1: ever again. But he obviously was suited for this life,
Speaker 1: and he decided to make it a life's goal for him,
Speaker 1: or at least the next step in his in his
Speaker 1: life to enter the U. S Military Academy. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: achieved the rank of commander captain of the Washington Rifles
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one, but you know, he he thought
Speaker 1: that he would be able to enter the US Military
Speaker 1: Academy as kind of a formality. However, there were there
Speaker 1: were some complications. His experience in a way worked against
Speaker 1: him because entry to places like West Point is based
Speaker 1: on academic achievement rather than combat experience, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: Well it's not, I don't know, crazy, He's not the
Speaker 1: right word. But it's like, if anyone should have been
Speaker 1: admitted to a military academy, it was this kid, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, he had actual real world experience that you
Speaker 1: can't buy. You know, you can definitely run drills and
Speaker 1: you know, march in the yard and everything, but this
Speaker 1: kid had actually seen it and tasted it like the
Speaker 1: actual hell that is war. And he had been in
Speaker 1: the field of battle since he was a child, right,
Speaker 1: as you said, it was a formative period. He left
Speaker 1: school before he was ten years old. He failed the
Speaker 1: entrance exam to West Point because of course he did,
Speaker 1: because he hadn't been to school years. Instead, he fought
Speaker 1: for his country. You know, I mean, come on, give
Speaker 1: the kid a give the kid a hall pass on
Speaker 1: this one, right And uh, Fortunately he still had his fame,
Speaker 1: so it looked like his career might be over. He
Speaker 1: might be a civil war, he wrote, retiring at the
Speaker 1: ripe old age of twenty. But because he was such
Speaker 1: a prominent figure during wartime, he was able to secure
Speaker 1: an audience with Ulysses S. Grant, who was then president,
Speaker 1: and Clim was well known at the time, so Grant
Speaker 1: was definitely aware of who he was. And Clem makes
Speaker 1: some claims in his essays and in some of his
Speaker 1: speeches regarding his interaction with Grant. Uh. He says, when
Speaker 1: President Grant learned that he failed the entrance exam, Grant said,
Speaker 1: you know, hero for ump if we can do better
Speaker 1: than that, And he appointed Clem second lieutenant in the
Speaker 1: twenty four U. S. Infantry in December of eighteen seventy one.
Speaker 1: So he said, they basically said, look, forget the schoolwork
Speaker 1: and the bureaucracy. Let's just get you back where you belong.
Speaker 1: And this was the beginning of a very long career
Speaker 1: in the military, a very long official career. That's right.
Speaker 1: He started off as a first lieutenant, and then he
Speaker 1: graduated from a different military school and artillery school at
Speaker 1: Fort Monroe, and then he married Anita Rosetta French. By
Speaker 1: the way, that's all from a fantastic article in History
Speaker 1: collection dot com called the Incredible Story of a twelve
Speaker 1: year old Civil War Hero. Um. He went on to
Speaker 1: continue getting promotions, and he eventually became a captain in
Speaker 1: two and then he became a quartermaster, which is a
Speaker 1: position that I wasn't super familiar with, but I believe
Speaker 1: it has to do with maintaining like stocks of artillery.
Speaker 1: Isn't that right? You have all the stuff? Yeah, Quartermasters
Speaker 1: like a real, real powerful position. This is the person
Speaker 1: in arg of quarters where you sleep, rations, the things
Speaker 1: we eat, clothing, other supplies including I would imagine at
Speaker 1: this time armament. He did actually eventually attain the rank
Speaker 1: of major. She's a big deal. In eighteen nine five
Speaker 1: he received many commendations, serving with distinction in the American
Speaker 1: Indian Wars against the Native Americans. He got a medal
Speaker 1: called the Indian Campaign Medal. Um. He was also injured
Speaker 1: in that conflict. In eighteen ninety nine, yes, and his
Speaker 1: career continued. Eighteen ninety nine, his first wife dies. He
Speaker 1: eventually remarries daughter of a Confederate veteran, oddly enough, Bessie's Sullivan,
Speaker 1: in nineteen oh three. He is active during this time
Speaker 1: in the Spanish American War eight. He is promoted to
Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel in nineteen oh one. Two and a half
Speaker 1: years later he's a colonel, and then he becomes the
Speaker 1: chief quartermaster at Fort sam Houston from nineteen oh six
Speaker 1: to nineteen eleven. He's retired in nineteen fifteen, but even
Speaker 1: after he's retired, he's given the rank of brigadier general.
Speaker 1: Apparently this sounds weird to us today, right, But apparently
Speaker 1: during this time it was customary to promote Civil War
Speaker 1: veterans this way. Once they reached the rink of colonel,
Speaker 1: they retired, they get promoted to brigadier general. He was
Speaker 1: the last American Civil War veterans still serving in the U. S.
Speaker 1: Army when he retired, which makes sense because he started
Speaker 1: when he was like ten. It absolutely makes sense. And
Speaker 1: what's crazy to me is he didn't pass away until
Speaker 1: May of nineteen thirty seven, which is actually the year
Speaker 1: my father was born. Which is just for perspective here, right,
Speaker 1: it's his reasons and my father was a little on
Speaker 1: the older side, but still crazy to think that their
Speaker 1: paths somehow crossed historically speaking, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: occupying the same time base. Yeah, if only for a moment.
Speaker 1: And today you can visit the memorial or the grave
Speaker 1: of John clym Over in Arlington National Cemetery. There's a
Speaker 1: six ft bronze statue of him standing close to the
Speaker 1: Buckingham Meeting House in his hometown of Newark as well,
Speaker 1: if you happen to pass through there. And we've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about John's adventures, right, his close calls with danger,
Speaker 1: his triumphs and his trials, but we haven't really looked
Speaker 1: into his own perspective. And while he was glad to
Speaker 1: serve his country and certainly considered himself a patriot, we
Speaker 1: also know that he understood the insidious, evil nature of war.
Speaker 1: We have a line about it that he wrote himself
Speaker 1: where he says war is bald naked savagery as compared
Speaker 1: with the adult man. The boy is near to the savage.
Speaker 1: But he had some views on child soldiers that might
Speaker 1: surprise you a little bit problematic today. Yeah. Um. In
Speaker 1: that History Collection dot Com article, they cite a perspective
Speaker 1: of Clems that, yeah, as you say, Ben was was
Speaker 1: problematic at best. Um. He believe that boys in fact
Speaker 1: made the best soldiers because they're so eager to please terrible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and referred to this notion that they hadn't yet
Speaker 1: developed what he called the spirit of caution that adults,
Speaker 1: you know, self preservation. I'm sure he had things to
Speaker 1: say about how they can fit in small spaces too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's weird, though. I guess I can see where
Speaker 1: he's coming from with it, because he's probably like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a child soldier and I turned out great. No,
Speaker 1: you're not a child soldier anymore. I'm you're an old man.
Speaker 1: You're happy to survive exactly. So it's strange because it
Speaker 1: gives us a look in a into a terrible, uh
Speaker 1: terrible aspect of that war, and as we said, a
Speaker 1: terrible aspect of many wars. The Civil War was called
Speaker 1: the boy's War because of all the children that were
Speaker 1: enlisted in the armed forces. But you know, as we said,
Speaker 1: it wasn't new, and some people in the country were
Speaker 1: torn about it. President Lincoln was not a fan of
Speaker 1: child soldiers, but he had a weird way of phrasing it.
Speaker 1: He wrote to the Secretary of the Navy at the time,
Speaker 1: Gideon Wells, and he said, the United States don't need
Speaker 1: the service of boys who disobey their parents. His main
Speaker 1: thing was, if your parents tell you not to run away,
Speaker 1: you should listen to your folks. Also, notice this is
Speaker 1: an interesting small thing. He used don't instead of doesn't.
Speaker 1: Like today, we refer to the United States as a
Speaker 1: singular entity, but back then people referred to it just
Speaker 1: as a group of states. So instead of the United
Speaker 1: States doesn't need this, it's the United States don't. So
Speaker 1: that really fascinated you. I know you're a big fan
Speaker 1: of grammar history. It's weird. It's a weird one, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I like referring to them as these United States. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just sounds it just sounds nice. It's a nice
Speaker 1: fan of white feel to the United States. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: it's very true. Um, And I always typically wear a
Speaker 1: very slim, sparkly dress when I do something. You know,
Speaker 1: HR might get onto me for this, but I think
Speaker 1: it looks great on you. Fetching. You know, I would
Speaker 1: you cut a good figure with thanks. You know, I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So I've been doing a lot of pilates.
Speaker 1: So this this is our This is where the tale
Speaker 1: of John Clem Civil War, he wrote, draws to a close.
Speaker 1: Little drummer boy uh sawed off, shotgun, baggy uniform wearing
Speaker 1: child soldier, badass, slightly problematic, old man, old Johnny Shiloh
Speaker 1: as he was also called, Is that right? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. There was a Disney film that
Speaker 1: used Johnny Shilo as the title is about him, and
Speaker 1: there's this rumor that he was in the Battle of
Speaker 1: Shiloh and had a close call and trapnel went through
Speaker 1: his drum. Anyway, long story short, that's probably that's not true.
Speaker 1: It's not even probably not true. It's he wasn't there, Okay,
Speaker 1: but don't let that ruin a good name. Johnny Shilo.
Speaker 1: Johnny Shilo is pretty solid. It sounds like when Johnny
Speaker 1: Shilo comes to town. It sounds like he walks into
Speaker 1: a restaurant and like the music stops and someone turns around.
Speaker 1: Everyone turns around. Yeah, so what drops a glass and
Speaker 1: someone else is like, you got a lot of nerve
Speaker 1: show in your face. Around here, Johnny Shallow, Johnny Shadow.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. It also makes me think of someone
Speaker 1: that would be like in a mob crew or something
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. He's
Speaker 1: like the one guy who's not Italian exactly, yeah, exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: he's the bagman. He's the bagman. You love and I
Speaker 1: love a good Civil war story. And that's it for
Speaker 1: this one. But as you would say, not it for
Speaker 1: our show? Yes, hopefully not as a whole. As a whole,
Speaker 1: it's it for this this edition of our show, unless
Speaker 1: we get replaced by like hardcore nine to ten year
Speaker 1: old podcasters who are also drummer boys. Wow, that's a
Speaker 1: pretty good idea. Actually, I mean it's you know, as
Speaker 1: far as ways to go, it's not that bad. But
Speaker 1: the conversation continues. We want to hear from you. What
Speaker 1: are some other little known stories of child soldiers. This
Speaker 1: one is interesting in that the nation as a whole
Speaker 1: sort of got behind it and again supported this idea.
Speaker 1: It's also interesting because it has a more or less
Speaker 1: happy ending. Right. Typically, stories of child soldiers involved like
Speaker 1: indoctrinating you know, kids who have nowhere else to go
Speaker 1: and forcing them to support a cause that is questionable
Speaker 1: and not in their best interest a lot of the time.
Speaker 1: And then they you know, they there cannon fodder right
Speaker 1: and there, or they're inducted into this army by having
Speaker 1: their family killed, you know what I mean, and they're
Speaker 1: giving the choice to fight or to die. It's it's
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible thing, and it is uh, it is
Speaker 1: somewhat unique that this has a happy ending. We want
Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can find us on Facebook,
Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, you can find us
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Our favorite part of the show, or our
Speaker 1: favorite part of the Facebook's at least, is our community page,
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Yeah, admittedly we're a little bit biased, but
Speaker 1: it's a fun group, right and maybe it's ad come
Speaker 1: hang out. We hang out there. It's true. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're not just saying that. Like, we definitely float around.
Speaker 1: We absolutely read every post, and we occasionally get in
Speaker 1: there and engage. So if you want to do that
Speaker 1: going over to Facebook and search for Ridiculous Historians, and
Speaker 1: I think you just have to say me or Ben's
Speaker 1: name and walk around in a counterclockwise circles. So what
Speaker 1: it is, Yes, it's true. Witter sians. I never get
Speaker 1: to use that word. It's walking counterclockwise. Uh, it's a
Speaker 1: way of walking. It's a really specific way of walking.
Speaker 1: Isn't the weird witterer ships, It's very weird. You can
Speaker 1: also find us on our personal instagrams if you want
Speaker 1: to see our various, uh different adventures. As we said,
Speaker 1: we are both going to be traveling a lot, separately
Speaker 1: and together in the coming days. Uh So I am
Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan and I am at how now Noel
Speaker 1: Brown big thanks to our super guest producer j J.
Speaker 1: Pause for the cause, pause way, cause for the pause,
Speaker 1: cause for the pause, cause for pause. He really he's
Speaker 1: the cause. He's the reason that he stopped dead in
Speaker 1: your tracks that you pause for the cause, pause for
Speaker 1: the cause, and and and remark upon his greatness. Um,
Speaker 1: thanks to super buster Casey Pegram here in spirit. He's
Speaker 1: here in the building, but he had something that pulled
Speaker 1: him away. Yeah. He just keeps sending as these weird
Speaker 1: snorky messages yet with some very problematic gifts. Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: le Bush. Thanks to Alex Williams who composed our track.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our brain trust, I think we can start
Speaker 1: calling them that. Christopher hascotis Eves jeff Coat, who recently
Speaker 1: appeared on that fantastic Uncle Tom's Cabin episode. Thanks of
Speaker 1: course to Gabe Louisier and uh, thanks to you know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we did not grow up during the
Speaker 1: Civil War joke. Man, it's a hard knock life. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for my
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.