Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I hear Radio's House
Speaker 1: st Efforts. I know that there's theme music from but
Speaker 1: in my head, I have my own after we finished,
Speaker 1: because if we sit in silence, so like do do
Speaker 1: do do? Do? Do? Do Do? Do do do? That's how
Speaker 1: I hair in my head. Okay, maybe we could make
Speaker 1: that a reality. Well, I like what we've got, which
Speaker 1: is nothing like what I just said. You came up
Speaker 1: with your own thing. I didn't sit here kind of awkwardly,
Speaker 1: but it's for production purpose, right, for transition, Yes, seriously. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we were having a rousing conversation about whether or
Speaker 1: not unicorns are monsters and are they all female? Right?
Speaker 1: And I guess according to the Cabin in the Woods,
Speaker 1: it is a monster. Yeah, because today we're talking about
Speaker 1: female monsters. Um, unicorns did not make the list, but
Speaker 1: maybe they should have. But I don't know his female. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, that's the that's the question. I did not
Speaker 1: include mermaids, um, which come up a lot, but we
Speaker 1: do talk about a lot of their kind of Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're so we're gonna do kind of a pop culture
Speaker 1: overlook and then a historical overlook that got kind of
Speaker 1: out of hand, just just saying this is a lot
Speaker 1: of pages. And I'm like, oh, we are in Annie's
Speaker 1: fun house now. Yes, I wish I could do Halloween
Speaker 1: themed episodes. The excitement that I see with the words
Speaker 1: and your face as we're talking about these things, I'm like, wow, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm in for a treat. You are both a trick
Speaker 1: and a treat. UM. A while back, we did an
Speaker 1: episode on the trope in our pop culture of women
Speaker 1: falling in love with monsters, and we mentioned in that
Speaker 1: episode that there is a monster gender cap far more
Speaker 1: male monsters than female monsters, and on top of that,
Speaker 1: there is a monster beauty gap. Female monsters are generally
Speaker 1: portrayed into sexualized manner, whereas male monsters are not. Male
Speaker 1: monsters are also frequently allowed some sympathy whereas female ones
Speaker 1: are not. Yeah uh, And we wanted to revisit this
Speaker 1: topic in the topic of female monsters and just f
Speaker 1: y I as in the episode we did around male
Speaker 1: monsters were mainly talking about fictional monsters, not like our
Speaker 1: real world human monsters. Um, we are going to tough
Speaker 1: touch briefly on Um, some fictional serial killers, but not
Speaker 1: not generally. And I know that I've done my my
Speaker 1: horror movies should beel on the show before. But I
Speaker 1: think horror movies are really indicative of our anxieties and
Speaker 1: fears as a society. And we are apparently hell afraid
Speaker 1: of women and their bodies and yeah, all the fluids
Speaker 1: of their bodies. No, absolutely true, absolutely true. Um. And
Speaker 1: this does come into like an interesting conversation of what
Speaker 1: a monster is, and we'll get we'll touch on that
Speaker 1: a little bit more because some of them we included,
Speaker 1: even though maybe we have some doubts. There's a gray area.
Speaker 1: There's several gray areas, there's many, there's fifty shades of gray,
Speaker 1: which is not a horror movie. I've been told. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it either. I haven't seen them though, no
Speaker 1: trigger warning before we get into it for brief mentions
Speaker 1: of sexual assault and violence, and yes, more specifically talking
Speaker 1: about more non human superhuman monsters today. But okay, I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you, Samantha, I'm here, what's the first
Speaker 1: female monster that comes to your head? So for me,
Speaker 1: all the female monsters are the ghostly, motherly, demonic kind. Um.
Speaker 1: And when or Ron Goes. So if I think of
Speaker 1: the other on Juan or the I guess, I guess
Speaker 1: the regular the Grudge, but we just recently watched that one,
Speaker 1: which I love, or the Devil Worshiping Mother from Conjuring
Speaker 1: because I love those movies, or even in the later
Speaker 1: segments of Insidious, there is a mother figure that started
Speaker 1: at all that haunts them kind of thing. Are these spoilers?
Speaker 1: Should not say spoilers spoilers? I don't think those are
Speaker 1: spoilers because they're just kind of like in the trailer, right,
Speaker 1: or even if you like I guess, if you want
Speaker 1: to think about again with a mother figure. In The
Speaker 1: Red Dragon, Joseph finds, I know this is a serial
Speaker 1: color and all that, but it began with his mother
Speaker 1: and created this fictional serial killed monster. And that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I think of as women and monsters. It's
Speaker 1: all these awful mothers or stepmothers, mothers, Yeah, that either
Speaker 1: come back for revenge or because they hated their children,
Speaker 1: or they're part of witchcraft or something. Right. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: that's something we've definitely talked about before, is our pop
Speaker 1: culture anxiety around motherhood. Clearly apparently, um and I feel
Speaker 1: like most female monsters I think of are like film fatals,
Speaker 1: are seductresses, um or yeah, closely. Women with long black
Speaker 1: hair just one of my favorite things. So when I
Speaker 1: had long black hair, I used to try to scare
Speaker 1: the hell out of people just by making that weird
Speaker 1: grudge noise and with the hair in my face. It worked.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite costumes I ever saw a dragon
Speaker 1: con with someone dressed as Samara from the Ring, looked
Speaker 1: just like her and was carrying around a videotape and
Speaker 1: like slowly trying to hand it to people. It was
Speaker 1: so creepy. One of my favorite Halloween costumes was dressing
Speaker 1: as the Grudge, having like a stained white gown essentially
Speaker 1: or you know, hospital gown with my hair all in
Speaker 1: my face and all white, and just staring with the
Speaker 1: one eye following people creepily. They were really creeped out
Speaker 1: a lot of friends, a lot of short day. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you didn't lose any definitely not UM. I also
Speaker 1: think of possessed young girls. I think that's a pretty
Speaker 1: big trope in our horror Kristen and Caroline have a
Speaker 1: whole episode on Succupy kind of going off that that's
Speaker 1: a dectorous bimbatal thing if you want to check that out.
Speaker 1: And they've done a few on witches, uh, if you
Speaker 1: want to check those out as well. So some famous
Speaker 1: recent examples recent ish of um female monsters. The Queen
Speaker 1: Alien from Aliens, which by now you've either heard are
Speaker 1: very indefinite look an alien or if you haven't, you
Speaker 1: should check it out. Um The Queen Alien from the Faculty,
Speaker 1: which is a movie that I loved in high school
Speaker 1: and I think for like a month every day I
Speaker 1: would go home and watch it with some KFC. What
Speaker 1: a weird weird child. Wow with KFC. That's very specific.
Speaker 1: I know I went through a big KFC Like just
Speaker 1: the Chicken because the sides I think we can agree
Speaker 1: or well, chicken finger looking good. Yes, it is a
Speaker 1: Leventer spices secret and spices. Oh yeah, we'll never know.
Speaker 1: It can't be like salt and pepper or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: got to be something more. Um another alien, the alien
Speaker 1: from under the Skin who killed men for their organs
Speaker 1: by seducing them. The Raptors from Jurassic Park. Um, at
Speaker 1: least the first one. They're all they're all female. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing, Like they can't reproduce because they're
Speaker 1: all female. But then they the frog DNA and then
Speaker 1: talk about spoilers that movie. Um, I suppose I saw
Speaker 1: Godzilla from the version of Godzilla on some list which
Speaker 1: I bring up every chance I get. That's why it's
Speaker 1: here on this list. Um Jaws, let's bruce, Yes, but
Speaker 1: the Jaws in the book at least, because I think
Speaker 1: that her her child is in the second one looking
Speaker 1: for a or maybe it's the other way around. It's
Speaker 1: a revenge tale, is it? For sure? The mom wants
Speaker 1: revenge or the child wants revenge. I just as soon
Speaker 1: it was because of the mayor was stupid every time,
Speaker 1: and so he deserves his talent getting eat up. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about? Oh? No, character, I
Speaker 1: absolutely know what you're talking about. I watched that movie
Speaker 1: every fourth of July because it takes place on fourth. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then the demon from Jennifer's body, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: she was possessed because she was not a virgin. I
Speaker 1: did not have you seen this movie? But oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you and I talked about this, Okay. I try to
Speaker 1: make my friend watch it too, and he's like, this
Speaker 1: is dumb. What is this. I'm like, it was Diablo Cody.
Speaker 1: That's one of her first movies, and it's kind of
Speaker 1: like mock two women in in in in the horror
Speaker 1: like genre. But yeah, she was supposed to be maybe
Speaker 1: spoiler alert if you're really excited about watching Jennifer's Body,
Speaker 1: which is fairly old. Um, but she goes with this band.
Speaker 1: The band thinks he's a virgin and they do this
Speaker 1: whole ceremony on her instead of going correctly, she be
Speaker 1: gets possessed or she becomes a demon and right and
Speaker 1: then no, of course not, well they did. She's so hot.
Speaker 1: She's me, and she's so hot that automatically you get
Speaker 1: an excuse except for her best friend, who's Amanda, who
Speaker 1: was beautiful. But she plays the dowdy girl. I'm like,
Speaker 1: come on, y'all that always bothers me. She's the shy,
Speaker 1: quieter friend of Megan Foxes. Was her hair in a pony? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure all get. Diablo Cody did that all definitely. Um.
Speaker 1: I love those movies like that. Um, the Werewolf from
Speaker 1: Ginger Snaps, which also plays on a lot of our
Speaker 1: fears straight up about, straight up about periods. I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you it all boils down to male writers
Speaker 1: being afraid of periods. They should be they should respect
Speaker 1: them respected. And um Samara from the Ring are Satiko
Speaker 1: from the original, and um I would love to come
Speaker 1: back and do a whole thing on that kind of
Speaker 1: genre of Japanese horror because a lot of it has
Speaker 1: to do with um anxiety around Hiroshima and the nuclear
Speaker 1: fallout and a fear of like what will my children
Speaker 1: like maybe something has gone wrong with this radiation. Um
Speaker 1: I would love to come back to legitimate fear. I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of how Chernobyl. The whole horror stories
Speaker 1: always kind of revolve around that as well. And then
Speaker 1: the vampire from Let the Right One in, or a
Speaker 1: girl walks home alone at night, fun gray area when
Speaker 1: it comes to monsters, which I did love both of
Speaker 1: those movies. They were fantastic in the original. The fact
Speaker 1: that these movies came out in this kind of level
Speaker 1: and it's just so like slow, yeah, but you kind
Speaker 1: of love it. But then you know there's draculas brides, yeah,
Speaker 1: which are usually portrayed pretty sexily, right, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of into those little gray areas. Is that the monster
Speaker 1: or that you know what. I Camilla the lesbian vampire
Speaker 1: who wanted to turn all the women she could into vampires.
Speaker 1: Do it? Just do it? Sorrey the vampire from Octavia
Speaker 1: Butler's Fledgeling, which I haven't seen that one. It's a book.
Speaker 1: Oh I think it's might be in Talk to Me
Speaker 1: a movie. Okay, okay, okay, so that's probably why. And
Speaker 1: then the main monster from Dusk Till Dawn, which is
Speaker 1: Selma Hiak. She barely speaks in it until she's about
Speaker 1: to kill people, but she does her seductive dance and
Speaker 1: she turns up to be one of the main vampires.
Speaker 1: You know, spoiler alert, But like, actually, you do not
Speaker 1: know this? Have you seen from Dustin? You've not seen
Speaker 1: I ain't seen it, and I didn't know she was
Speaker 1: a vampire. What would that say? I just never don't
Speaker 1: you It becomes obvious. And I'm sorry I spoiled that
Speaker 1: from you. I really thought you. It's a fairly old movie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Statute of Limitations I believe is tenures and it's
Speaker 1: fairly old. Um. I know there's a lot of like
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino. However, Yeah, it is a fun, over the
Speaker 1: top It does also involve like a serial killer. It's
Speaker 1: a weird it's hard to Yeah, it's a weird movie.
Speaker 1: I'm not know most of you have watched it, because
Speaker 1: you also feel a little you feel this little sympathy
Speaker 1: for the serial killer, like Psychotic Brother. It's a whole level.
Speaker 1: It's a whole level. So also, Juliette Louis is a
Speaker 1: teenage girl character. It's just some creepy factors up in here.
Speaker 1: Definitely a good like an interesting movie to watch. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the the main vampire is Elma Hiak, who is a
Speaker 1: beautiful dancer that turns into an all eating monster and
Speaker 1: all eating monster that just sees everything. Huh, well that vampire.
Speaker 1: You know, I saw this movie recently and I couldn't,
Speaker 1: for the life of me, remember what it's called. So
Speaker 1: this is very unhelpful. But it was like, I think,
Speaker 1: um spring, but it was about um. It sets itself
Speaker 1: up so you think it's one of those American tourists
Speaker 1: is going to get tortured by locals and die kind
Speaker 1: of thing because he's like in an Italy um and
Speaker 1: he meets the hot girl and you know it's a
Speaker 1: horror movie, so you're like, Okay, but then it turns
Speaker 1: out she actually does love him, but at night she
Speaker 1: turns into some kind of like Cuthulu type but on
Speaker 1: a small level, and she has to feed and she's
Speaker 1: trying to protect him. And also like every so many
Speaker 1: years she will become that monster permanently and instead of
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess spoilers, they stayed together and it
Speaker 1: ends with them like waiting for the sunrise on her
Speaker 1: last day and to see what happens. Um, he's gonna
Speaker 1: get eaten probably, But I do like I like movies
Speaker 1: like the ones we've been talking about with the vampires
Speaker 1: and um, the ones that make you think about the
Speaker 1: question of what is it to be a monster because
Speaker 1: a lot of times they're killing human monsters or just
Speaker 1: people who compared to the vampire UM aren't great. Right, Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of witches we could talk about.
Speaker 1: This is something that I was kind of like monsters.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they count, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: to include some of them. Um, we do have the
Speaker 1: witches from The Craft, which I only watched recently because
Speaker 1: of this show. Really, I feel like you've missed really
Speaker 1: iconic like female bonding movies. Apparently I did. I will
Speaker 1: make a list. I'm ready to go. Um, the the
Speaker 1: s the witch from the conjuring that you mentioned. Um,
Speaker 1: and I guess Annabelle would count, even though Annabel was
Speaker 1: more of a demon possession situation, old spirit for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I thought it might be male. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: So in the Origin uh huh. Yeah. Look, I love Wayne.
Speaker 1: That his name Wan, James Wan, John Wayne, those John
Speaker 1: Wayne movies, James Wang. He I think he's done some
Speaker 1: really good things. And I know they're all kind of
Speaker 1: followed the same little idea, but like he did, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was him that did the Annabel one.
Speaker 1: But it goes to the origin story of Annabel, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and they go into it's like they live in a
Speaker 1: nineteen for theft sixties Lombo Stretch and the it's an orphanage.
Speaker 1: It's like a small homemade orphanage with a few nuns
Speaker 1: here there of course. Um. And it begins with the
Speaker 1: death of this couple's baby and so whether or not
Speaker 1: and I can't quite remember if it was adopted or
Speaker 1: like what it was always a spirit or always been
Speaker 1: possessed whatever whatnot. And then it comes on to possess
Speaker 1: and become Annabel or whatever whatnot. So yes, I think
Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe it's also gender neutral who
Speaker 1: knows necessarily a gender, But yes, it possesses a young girl.
Speaker 1: Though maybe that's a spoiler alert. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 1: I saw that movie on a plane, but I think
Speaker 1: it landed right at the like end, you know. And
Speaker 1: I just never saw the like of course, because we
Speaker 1: talked about this again as children, but this time it's
Speaker 1: all young girls. Um. And as of course again orphans
Speaker 1: always orphans if that's the thing, either you or any
Speaker 1: orphan or your demon orphan. Um. But yeah, they definitely
Speaker 1: set it up as a regular trope type of here
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, Um, so I don't think not a
Speaker 1: witch but a demon demon, gender neutral demon that goes
Speaker 1: into a girl. I'll say it that way. How interesting
Speaker 1: hard phrase these things without sounding very strange. Um. So,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the witches from the Witch, which
Speaker 1: I don't that one is I think within the realm
Speaker 1: of I don't want to spoil it, but um, they
Speaker 1: do some monstrous things. I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: where I land on that one. I don't there's a
Speaker 1: lot of illusion, like it's kind of cowards things. But
Speaker 1: it's a slow burn. It's a slow burn movie, yes,
Speaker 1: But to me, it's kind of like along the lines
Speaker 1: of Bubba Duke and that slow, slow, slow unfolding how
Speaker 1: deep do you let it go into your mind? Yeah,
Speaker 1: type of thing, And a lot of it does feel
Speaker 1: like um metaphor, so I mean, I guess the truly
Speaker 1: monstrous thing in that movie is that she's coming into
Speaker 1: her sexuality, right, um or that's like the not only
Speaker 1: that she's also sexualized by the brother. Yes, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then there's also this confusion, the back and forth with
Speaker 1: the mom and the dad too. There's a whole there's
Speaker 1: a whole thing. There is a whole thing. Um. And
Speaker 1: this is a theme that happens all the time. But
Speaker 1: like I would say that in that movie Witchcraft, which
Speaker 1: is a sort of scene as like women liberating themselves
Speaker 1: from the patriarchy and like whatever way that right, right,
Speaker 1: and then just becoming their own and shedding something shedding
Speaker 1: some things I would love to talk about that we
Speaker 1: should have like a spoiled like a whole episode for like,
Speaker 1: if you wanted to see any of these movies, don't
Speaker 1: don't listen to this. Yeah, you don't listen to it,
Speaker 1: but I want to talk about the witch. Then there's
Speaker 1: the Grand High Witch from Royal Dolls the Witches who
Speaker 1: appears young and beautiful but it's actually old and ugly.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Angelica Houston, she was phenomenal. I was scared
Speaker 1: so long from that movie alone. But at the same
Speaker 1: time I loved it because they also had like the
Speaker 1: calmness of an English movie, so it's not your American
Speaker 1: in your face like that. I would say. It was
Speaker 1: just like kind of like, hey, I'm a mouse or
Speaker 1: I'm this, and I'm just gonna walk around and oh no,
Speaker 1: there's a witch like kind of starts doing that way.
Speaker 1: But Angelica Houston as always the like when she acts
Speaker 1: like she's so disgusted by children, I believe that any
Speaker 1: moment she's going to vomit. Like she's phenomenal, phenomenal. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I have to watch that. See we had that movie
Speaker 1: when I was growing up, and I was so afraid
Speaker 1: of the cover. It was scared. I didn't watch it
Speaker 1: was again, and you're right, it became this whole like
Speaker 1: hagwitch versus beautiful, which it was just this great dichotomy
Speaker 1: of what it was and who they really were and
Speaker 1: how awful they were. Maybe it does have something about motherhood.
Speaker 1: Maybe actually probably they just they just despies children. These
Speaker 1: women despies children. We were the monsters because we're just like,
Speaker 1: look at the feminism of the shot. I I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I've long wanted to do my feminist movie viewings. That
Speaker 1: reminds me of our next. The next thing I have
Speaker 1: on the list Hocus Focus, which is coming back to theaters.
Speaker 1: I have a ticket for it because I watched this
Speaker 1: movie so much when I was a kid. It was
Speaker 1: banned from our house really until I got to college,
Speaker 1: Like from eight years old and Dell College, I didn't
Speaker 1: see Hocus Focusing on. My parents were like, never will
Speaker 1: this play. Oh that's the trick that that's when you
Speaker 1: just get that one movie for that kid, be like
Speaker 1: stopped talking, watch your same movie. I think that it
Speaker 1: even in like in the background, wore them out. And
Speaker 1: in fact, I rented it so many times from Blockbuster.
Speaker 1: They eventually were like, keep it. You've earned this, You've
Speaker 1: paid for it five times, now just just take it.
Speaker 1: You made a payment plan. I mean, hocus Pocus is phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I had it in like the Blockbuster case was the
Speaker 1: actual cover, so it looked like you stole it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we Samantha and I were recently in Orlando,
Speaker 1: and of course we went to Disney World, which in
Speaker 1: August was having a Halloween celebration but not so scary,
Speaker 1: how Mickey is not so scary Halloween party? And the
Speaker 1: show that night and we watched at midnight. Um was
Speaker 1: hocus Pocus based and it was great. And I've had
Speaker 1: Season of the Witch stuck in my head. Yeah. They
Speaker 1: did a phenomenal job, all of them that portrayed it
Speaker 1: and made this. I was wondering how they wouldn't do
Speaker 1: this and not be kitchy and over the top. That
Speaker 1: movie is pretty kitchy. No, but it's so well done.
Speaker 1: Come on and yeah, it's a great movie. And I'm
Speaker 1: excited because I want to go. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I got my takeyabit. Yeah, that movie is definitely one
Speaker 1: for all time, read like cult classic level. I want
Speaker 1: to do next time I met karaoke, I want to
Speaker 1: sing I put a spill on you. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember they grown when they were like, it's been
Speaker 1: twenty six years. I think all of us just grown
Speaker 1: got angry and said, why did you that? Necessary didn't
Speaker 1: remind us but how old we were, Dan, But that's another. Um.
Speaker 1: It's a fun one to include on this list, I
Speaker 1: think because their whole thing is that they're gonna suck
Speaker 1: the youth out of your children so that they can
Speaker 1: stay beautiful. And that's a pretty consistent theme and a
Speaker 1: lot of our hearts definitely like the snow white yeah
Speaker 1: idea as well. Yeah, for sure. Um, and then you
Speaker 1: have yeah so also the classic witches of Wasard of Oz.
Speaker 1: You have Glinda, the good Witch, and then the wicked
Speaker 1: Witch of thest They're all female, obviously, and they all
Speaker 1: represented the goodness and the bad and all of this,
Speaker 1: but it was all absolutely female. And the one powerful
Speaker 1: person was a fake but it was a man, but
Speaker 1: he was supposed to be all powerful who could take
Speaker 1: all of these witches out, which I thought was kind
Speaker 1: of interesting as well. Yeah, I don't know, it's the
Speaker 1: horror movie, but shoot, sometimes when that scene comes on
Speaker 1: where she's scared, like screeching across the sky about taking
Speaker 1: your dog God when she melts, that scared me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the whole idea with Poppy Sue and we know
Speaker 1: the whole book book in itself was political, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I always thought that was an interesting Yeah. I debated
Speaker 1: on including them because of Wicked, because then they're kind
Speaker 1: of painted as good friends and good that they've been,
Speaker 1: you know. But I think that's the whole new thing
Speaker 1: is to take whatever was bad, Mila, But you didn't
Speaker 1: actually know the whole story, Like Supernatural does that as
Speaker 1: well as once once upon a time on the ABC
Speaker 1: Show they would do that as well. Well, that's the
Speaker 1: fun part of a complex bill and is usually they
Speaker 1: have something that you can write, really to the weird
Speaker 1: Sisters or the wayward sisters and from Shakespeare. Um, still
Speaker 1: the female alien hybrid from SPCs. So we're moving away
Speaker 1: from which is now so we're be gone. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we got the Hybrid from which, by the way, super
Speaker 1: scary movie. I just remember the one scene of her
Speaker 1: kissing and it's like, yeah, I pretty much blocked that
Speaker 1: movie from my memory. I saw when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, no, beautiful model woman who
Speaker 1: turns into a monster, got it. Um. And then there's
Speaker 1: Carrie from Carrie and I know, like you were talking
Speaker 1: about the fact that this is also probably up there
Speaker 1: with the fact that men are terrified of menstruating women,
Speaker 1: and even though she was not necessarily a monster, she
Speaker 1: is telekinetic, and so therefore the Mother the evil mother
Speaker 1: once again. Yeah, once again, we were coming back to
Speaker 1: created this monster who was Carrie. Yeah, so it kind
Speaker 1: of goes back to that mild like theory of what
Speaker 1: is this. I never would have included carry on this list, honestly,
Speaker 1: but she comes up on a lot of other people's list,
Speaker 1: so I figured we should mention her. But to me,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess she is telekinetic, right, So
Speaker 1: the whole thing is, yes, this horror movie level, but
Speaker 1: is she a monster? She becomes a monster created by
Speaker 1: being an outcast, and of course the very obvious signs
Speaker 1: of blood and menstruating means that she's done something evil,
Speaker 1: which was the most of the Mother has translated that
Speaker 1: to be. And so therefore, men, if you're menstruating, your evil. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. So that's what I've been told, And I
Speaker 1: suppose along those lines, I'm a firestarter. Frying a child
Speaker 1: that will set you a fire more as a child.
Speaker 1: Pretty scary. Yeah. Then there's the main character from Teeth,
Speaker 1: which is a movie I know I've mentioned before about
Speaker 1: vagina dentata. Uh, And to be clear, vagina dentata is
Speaker 1: not the monster. She uses it in a pretty like
Speaker 1: monster type way. And yeah, I feel like again this
Speaker 1: reflects our anxiety around female sexuality. You can't trust women.
Speaker 1: They aren't what they seem. Um, And this movie kind
Speaker 1: of falls into a whole genre of women wronged and
Speaker 1: that generally means raped and then getting revenge. And this
Speaker 1: is another genre where the monster label can get really murky,
Speaker 1: really really, I mean revenge movies in general. Right, um uh,
Speaker 1: still monster perhaps, but not really in the way we're
Speaker 1: talking about today. Right. Then there's the creepy rogue AI
Speaker 1: pretty often voiced by women, sometimes even a female avatar,
Speaker 1: like in the classic Resident Evil. So I'm thinking like
Speaker 1: she or no her, Well, not a monster but a
Speaker 1: um x makina though that is a good example, like
Speaker 1: a rogue. The new Hilary Sweint movie that's on Netflix.
Speaker 1: She there's an AI that takes care of this human
Speaker 1: child and then there's a battle between who are you
Speaker 1: going to believe who's the actually evil villain? Oh? How interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of female ghosts that are I
Speaker 1: guess evil like, uh, lady in Black, that's the first
Speaker 1: one that comes to my mind. But so there's that,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And then there is other mother from Coraline,
Speaker 1: which by the way, I refused to see because it
Speaker 1: looks creepy as hell is like I just saw the
Speaker 1: button eyes. But and I was like, nope, it's good,
Speaker 1: it's good. Um. They have a are they used to
Speaker 1: at the Center for Puppetry Arts. They had a little
Speaker 1: set piece from it was do haunt me? Um. And
Speaker 1: speaking of children, there's also we see this in children's books.
Speaker 1: A recent study from the Observer found that not only
Speaker 1: our children's books twice as likely to contain male main
Speaker 1: characters and there are far more likely to have speaking
Speaker 1: roles compared to female characters, and villains were eight times
Speaker 1: more likely to be male. And the researchers at that
Speaker 1: paper are pretty good it explaining why that is such
Speaker 1: a problem, especially at a formative age, something you're reading
Speaker 1: to your children or that they're reading. Um, can we
Speaker 1: talk about why so many of the children's books and
Speaker 1: children's stories have their parents killed off. It's because the
Speaker 1: story wouldn't happen if someone was there to be like, hey, kid,
Speaker 1: don't go into the woods and talk to the screepy
Speaker 1: old lady. I think it's problematic another episode. Um. There
Speaker 1: are some famous fictional serial killers I did want to
Speaker 1: mention because they have this sort of supernatural element to them. Um,
Speaker 1: Jason's mom from the original Friday the Thirteenth, although Jason
Speaker 1: is more the one that's like, if you've seen the
Speaker 1: whole series, which I embarrassingly have, Um, he's like a demon, right,
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing. Um. And then Mrs Loomis from
Speaker 1: Scream Too, because I love Scream Too and I just
Speaker 1: watched it. How did that come up? Yesterday? You were talking,
Speaker 1: oh game when you put a reference to that, and
Speaker 1: no one except for Lauren from Favor and we were
Speaker 1: all like, hey, l Cassandra, Oh my gosh, Lawrence always
Speaker 1: got my back's um. And there are some famous, not
Speaker 1: so recent ish examples, like the Bride of Frankenstein from
Speaker 1: nineteen five, who doesn't show U until the very end
Speaker 1: of the film. And I read very funny, like two
Speaker 1: different interpretations of this film. Either the Bride screwed everything
Speaker 1: up by rejecting the monster because if you don't know
Speaker 1: at the end, she's like no, or the monster was
Speaker 1: an entitled douche. You got mad, a lady, you're injecting him,
Speaker 1: which consign sounds one and the same again because of
Speaker 1: rejection towards the monster Man man monster. How interesting. Then
Speaker 1: there's Jacula's daughter from nineteen six who tries to overcome
Speaker 1: the curse of her father by finding an immortal mate. Okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta find a man, or else you're doing to
Speaker 1: monster hood. And then there's the Invisible Woman who has
Speaker 1: an invisible baby with an invisible man. Of course, how
Speaker 1: could you imagine if it would it be half invisible?
Speaker 1: So would it be like if she went with a
Speaker 1: not invisible man, oh, assuming it had a lot um.
Speaker 1: Then there is the cat Woman from Cat People, which
Speaker 1: is a film about a woman who can't have sex
Speaker 1: or she'll turn into a panther. M I mean we
Speaker 1: all know that, right every time I have sex a
Speaker 1: cat of some sorts. Um. And that movie plays a
Speaker 1: lot with gas lighting because even when there is like
Speaker 1: scientific evidence that yes, she does her into a panther
Speaker 1: she has sex, no one believes her. Of course, women
Speaker 1: and sex. Then there is the Lost Woman from The
Speaker 1: Lost Woman. H This film depicts a woman who successfully
Speaker 1: founded a cosmetic company, but is desperate to find a
Speaker 1: way to maintain her youth. Her cosmetics are not doing
Speaker 1: it for so she formulates an anti aging product with
Speaker 1: royal jelly from bees, with herself as the test subject,
Speaker 1: but of course side effects may include turning into a
Speaker 1: lost woman. I feel like we definitely have a theme
Speaker 1: here with the whole age and baby in blood and secks,
Speaker 1: because I'm just thinking about the fact that who who
Speaker 1: was the the woman who bathes herself in blood trying
Speaker 1: to stay younger, But she was an actual woman, um,
Speaker 1: and that was one of the reasons that kind of
Speaker 1: that whole monster theme began because of her legend. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I'll just I just find that fascinating. And then we
Speaker 1: have the young pigtailed girl from the nineteen sixty five
Speaker 1: The Bad Seed, which, by the way, I'm going to
Speaker 1: these last three movies we just talked about. I have
Speaker 1: no idea what these movies are. I've never heard of
Speaker 1: these movies, and I'm both horrified and intrigued. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I've seen I haven't seen um like, I've seen them
Speaker 1: maybe once when I was young. Uh, And I just
Speaker 1: remember thinking, are kind of silly, but the bad seat
Speaker 1: did scare me actually, um, but worth checking out if
Speaker 1: you're at all interested in this female monster thing. Um,
Speaker 1: we have some female monsters of history. But first we
Speaker 1: have a quick break for word from our sponsor and
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsored. So, of course, one of
Speaker 1: the first female monsters that comes to my mind kicking
Speaker 1: at old school is the gorgon slash Medusa from Greek mythology.
Speaker 1: Is actually one of the first things that I was
Speaker 1: ever proud of drawing. But then I had to admit
Speaker 1: that I traced it when everyone was complimenting me and
Speaker 1: asking me how I drew such a kid. I traced it.
Speaker 1: I would have believed it. Um. To fill you in
Speaker 1: on her backstory, the god Poseidon raped her in Athena's temple, uh,
Speaker 1: and Athena, outraged that this could happen in her temple,
Speaker 1: punished who Medusa. This is such a biblical Old Testament idea,
Speaker 1: the thought being, with this punishment of she's so hideous,
Speaker 1: men that dared to look upon her would turn to stone.
Speaker 1: Then it would never happen again. Of course, that's like
Speaker 1: the easiest way. Um. So that is an example of
Speaker 1: women not supporting women and some of that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty we can say that with confidence.
Speaker 1: And some versions of this tale, Perseus states this is
Speaker 1: a well earned punishment for Medusa. That's the most terrifying
Speaker 1: thing of the story. I feel like, yeah, that translates
Speaker 1: a little too well. I know, I'm very uncomfortable with
Speaker 1: how well it translates. So another female monster from the
Speaker 1: Greek mythology are the sirens, who lured mostly male sellers
Speaker 1: to their destruction with their beautiful song. The most well
Speaker 1: known depiction is in the Odyssey O Do See. His
Speaker 1: warned of their power, had himself tied to his ship's mass,
Speaker 1: while his crew put wax in their ears to block
Speaker 1: out the siren's call. These creatures, by the way, were
Speaker 1: hybrids with the bodies of birds and the heads of women,
Speaker 1: which that's sexy, will sexy uh? And in some tales
Speaker 1: they were persephonese companions, and when they failed to stop
Speaker 1: her rape, they were turned into sirens, which seems to
Speaker 1: be a common theme in Greek mythology punishing women for rape.
Speaker 1: It seems to be it's already come up twice to exist,
Speaker 1: So the sirens seemed to originate after the Greeks had
Speaker 1: contact with Eastern art. Sirens were extremely confident in their talents.
Speaker 1: They unsuccessfully challenged the Muses, and the Muses being the
Speaker 1: nine Greek goddesses of various arts. Legend goes a siren
Speaker 1: invested musically by mortal must die. Also in the Odyssey,
Speaker 1: Scylla and Charactis sisters who were cursed to be ugly
Speaker 1: as punishment for their misdeeds. No greater punishment, of course,
Speaker 1: um Scilia was a six headed rock monster. Why whild
Speaker 1: Cards was a sea monster just snacking on poor lost sailors.
Speaker 1: You know I could do so sad. Then there are harpies,
Speaker 1: Greek and Roman mythical monsters with the body of a bird,
Speaker 1: usually a vulture, and the face of an old woman.
Speaker 1: In early legends they were not depicted that way, but
Speaker 1: in the legend of Jason and the Argonauts, which is
Speaker 1: probably one of the most well known uh they were
Speaker 1: portrayed as half bird, half women and quite revolting, like
Speaker 1: they stank. They stole your food, And that was one
Speaker 1: of the first times that it was written this kind
Speaker 1: of signature move of theirs, that they steal your food. Um.
Speaker 1: Their name is derived from a Greek word meaning snatchers.
Speaker 1: They abducted people, usually evildoers, and cruelly punished them while
Speaker 1: taking them to the furies they are thought to The
Speaker 1: Harpies are thought to represent wind spirits, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: most terrifyingly portrayed in The Last Unicorn. And in case
Speaker 1: you're wondering, there is in fact an entire essay written
Speaker 1: about the feminism of the Last Unicorn, and I have
Speaker 1: read it. Really, I love that movie. It's on my
Speaker 1: list of terrifying children's You have to be it, must
Speaker 1: have you must have rented it because you were too
Speaker 1: young for that movie. We owned it. I don't know
Speaker 1: that we're talking about the Tom Cruise movie Tom Crew.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm that's legend. That's legend.
Speaker 1: So confused because legend has it's based on a unicorn. Oh,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And that's Tim Curry being a frightening,
Speaker 1: frightening Well I want to see this. Oh it's poor quality.
Speaker 1: That's The Last Unicorn. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, now I'm there.
Speaker 1: Never mind, keep going two movies to watch. Um this
Speaker 1: whole thing. The heartbee is where the insult heart bee
Speaker 1: comes from, meaning a foul or unpleasant woman. Um. A
Speaker 1: picture of a rare hearpie eagle went viral yesterday as
Speaker 1: we record this due to its resemblance to a human um.
Speaker 1: It really is cool. Look it up like this. This
Speaker 1: eagle in in particular, which is named after the herpy
Speaker 1: from Greek mythology, looks amazing and weird and you can't
Speaker 1: believe it exists. So check it out. And that that
Speaker 1: that brings us to the furies or the arenes or
Speaker 1: the human ideas from Greco Roman mythology. And these are
Speaker 1: the goddesses of vengeance, frequently depicted as hags with snakes
Speaker 1: in their hair and snakes wrapped around their arms and
Speaker 1: blood dripping from their eyes, dressed in black, carrying whips.
Speaker 1: In their first incarnation, they were the ghost of murdered people,
Speaker 1: or perhaps like curses come to life. The Greek poet
Speaker 1: Hessiad conceived of them as the daughters of Gaya Argaia,
Speaker 1: birth from the blood of her murdered spouse, urinous as
Speaker 1: a pretty dark origin story. The first to describe them
Speaker 1: in three, because normally now we think of them in threes,
Speaker 1: was Euripides. Eventually they were named Alecto which means unceasing
Speaker 1: and anger. It's a phony avenger of murder and Magara
Speaker 1: jealous and I got that pronunciation from the animated Hercules,
Speaker 1: so that is probably not correct, although that is an
Speaker 1: interesting kind of side because there are three I believe
Speaker 1: there's three characters that kind of represent the furies in
Speaker 1: that movie. Um. They the furies were frequently depicted as
Speaker 1: spirits of the underworld that came to the surface to
Speaker 1: punish the wicked, particularly crimes around family and oaths. Their
Speaker 1: punishment could be something like disease or madness. They were
Speaker 1: so feared by the Greeks that they referred to the
Speaker 1: furies and euphemistic terms like the furies or the gracious ones,
Speaker 1: like be nice to them, call them nice things. Maybe
Speaker 1: they leave you alone. In the Iliad, they cloud people's
Speaker 1: judgment and reason. Homer wrote that they had no pity
Speaker 1: in their hearts, and they are sometimes called the daughters
Speaker 1: of night. They are the embodiment of righteous rage, and
Speaker 1: as such, there are a lot of feminist articles written
Speaker 1: about them as well. Pretty current. Um also, now the
Speaker 1: name of an Australian slasher movie, is it? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what it was first results When I was searching on Google.
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to try to check that out.
Speaker 1: Of course, there's the Succubus or that which Lies beneath.
Speaker 1: Check out the full episode in our archives for more.
Speaker 1: But briefly, the succubus is a female sexual demon. That's
Speaker 1: the nick names play notes. The legend of the puccubus
Speaker 1: is thousands of years old and transcendd culture as Jins
Speaker 1: and Arabic cultures. This demons m is approaching men while
Speaker 1: they're sleeping and seducing them. Lords suggests sucubus are the
Speaker 1: descendants of Lilith, which we're gonna get into in a second,
Speaker 1: because I know you're super excited about that. The Succubus
Speaker 1: has taken on a sore of cultural second win lately.
Speaker 1: You can see that on our classic episode Can You
Speaker 1: Have Sex with a Ghost? Which is okay um And
Speaker 1: also apparently that's where we talk about y'all talk about
Speaker 1: Kesha reported having sex with a ghost. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: plays into a lot of sleep paralysis. Uh, there's very
Speaker 1: many actually scientific research into that very phenomenon. So yeah,
Speaker 1: check out that classic for more on that one. Then
Speaker 1: there's Banshees, another pretty famous female monster although I guess
Speaker 1: she's just gonna trying to warn you. Generally, um, she's
Speaker 1: from This is from Irish and Scottish lower sometimes the
Speaker 1: ghost of an old maid or wailing about your impending
Speaker 1: probably violent death. Sometimes the visage of a beautiful maiden
Speaker 1: weeping about your impending death, and some retelling. She can
Speaker 1: be found washing her blooded clothes in the river or
Speaker 1: brushing her hair with a silver comb. And modernly people
Speaker 1: think this this it originated from the sounds of barn owls.
Speaker 1: And when I read that, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can see that, because I've heard one. I had just
Speaker 1: watched the Mothman prophecies and there was a barn owl
Speaker 1: or a screech owl outside my window and it scared me, so,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I thought it was a moth man.
Speaker 1: But the next day my neighbor, who's kind of she
Speaker 1: knows a lot about nature, was like, now that was
Speaker 1: just Now you're fine. Um. But they also have kind
Speaker 1: of like white plumage that can look like a face, um,
Speaker 1: And they're very silent when they fly. So I can
Speaker 1: see how you might think it's a wheeling ghost of
Speaker 1: a woman who's warning you about your death. Because you're
Speaker 1: just anxious all the time. Well, I guess some warning
Speaker 1: would be good. It's a nerving sound. Oh my gosh. Well,
Speaker 1: then we have Grendel's mother from Beowulf, who is described
Speaker 1: as a woman monster wife, embodying both light and dark
Speaker 1: sides of the feminine seems to be a common theme.
Speaker 1: When she's first mentioned in the poem, she's described as
Speaker 1: an avenger. There is a lot of themes of like
Speaker 1: getting justice, punishing people for doing wrong, um, and then there.
Speaker 1: This is one of the most interesting inclusions on our list.
Speaker 1: I think Bobba Yaga, here we go from Russian folklore.
Speaker 1: I had to really try to keep reining in and
Speaker 1: they will not make the whole upset about her. She
Speaker 1: lives in a hut that has chicken legs. In some
Speaker 1: versions it spins on top of eggs and is bodecked
Speaker 1: in skulls, and she travels herself via mortar, mortar and festal.
Speaker 1: When someone visits her, she may eat you or offer
Speaker 1: to help you. That's the interesting thing about Bobby Yaga
Speaker 1: that a lot of UH historians I think is unique
Speaker 1: is because in the very same story she can be
Speaker 1: like a trickster murderer, a helper, all in one woman,
Speaker 1: we contain multitudes um. Bobby Yaga is frequently depicted as
Speaker 1: an old woman crone or hag could be applied here,
Speaker 1: gnarled and toad like, with long stringing, gray hair and
Speaker 1: iron teeth or no teeth. Sometimes she has written as
Speaker 1: traveling with death and feeding on deaths, newly released souls,
Speaker 1: and yes. When looking at the wealth of information that
Speaker 1: has been written about her, she is sometimes maternalistic and
Speaker 1: others cannibalistic. Probably the most famous instance of Bobby Aga
Speaker 1: in literature is from Vahalisa the Beautiful. This Russian fairy
Speaker 1: tale follows Vashaliza, whose mother died when she was young.
Speaker 1: Before her death, the mother gave her a doll like
Speaker 1: no other doll in the world, instructing her daughter to
Speaker 1: never let anyone see it and carry it with her always.
Speaker 1: Those dolls, Those damn dolls, Those damn dolls, I actually do.
Speaker 1: I actually pitched a whole episode on why do we
Speaker 1: think dolls are creepy? And everyone was like, no, I
Speaker 1: wanted to know, Um, okay, So yeah, if she's carrying
Speaker 1: it with her always, and if she's ever threatened by
Speaker 1: evil or sorrow. The other tells Vashaalisa to find an
Speaker 1: isolated corner or someplace that people won't see her. Take
Speaker 1: the doll out, feed it, give it a little something
Speaker 1: to drink, and then tell it um what's bothering her,
Speaker 1: And then the doll gets her some advice or I will.
Speaker 1: And not soon after her mother's death, vashally said, does this.
Speaker 1: She takes up the doll, feeds it a little, gives
Speaker 1: it a drink, and then tells it about her grief
Speaker 1: of her mother dying. And the doll listens and then says,
Speaker 1: grief is worse at night, and morning is wiser in
Speaker 1: the evening, and suggested that Vashalisa go to sleep, and
Speaker 1: Vashalisa found that she did feel better the next day. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: her father had found a new wife, a widower about
Speaker 1: his age with two daughters. The woman and her children
Speaker 1: moved into their house, and vashaal Lisa quickly realized that
Speaker 1: her father's new wife was quite cruel. She wanted her
Speaker 1: father's wealth and her and her daughters were envious of
Speaker 1: Vashaalisa's beauty. By giving her a lot of menial and
Speaker 1: difficult chores, they hoped to diminish her beauty. But Vashaalisa
Speaker 1: was resilient and she has that special doll. Years went
Speaker 1: by this way until vash Lisa reached marrying age oh no,
Speaker 1: and everyone wanted to marry her, of course um and
Speaker 1: this made her stepmother and sisters even angrier. So when
Speaker 1: Vashelisa's father left to make a journey to another sardom,
Speaker 1: his wife packed up to all the stuff, sold his
Speaker 1: house and moved everybody, herself or daughters, and Vashlisa to
Speaker 1: a sad neighborhood bordering the wild woods outside of town.
Speaker 1: And every day her stepmother sent bass Elisa into the
Speaker 1: woods to compete various tasks. The stepmother did this knowing
Speaker 1: that Boba Yaga lived in these woods, who people believed
Speaker 1: eight people like one, eats chickens and delicious. Her hope
Speaker 1: was that Vasha Lisa would encounter Boba Yaga and be eaten.
Speaker 1: The doll knew of Bobby Yaga and warned vasha Lisa
Speaker 1: not to approach the hut on chicken legs fair, But
Speaker 1: the stepmother was determined and with the hell of her daughters,
Speaker 1: orchestrated a situation where vasha Lisa had to go to
Speaker 1: Abby Yaga to get more fire um. But Vasha Lisa
Speaker 1: does all of this instead of getting eaten. Bobby Yaga
Speaker 1: just is like, here's some impossible to ask, Let's see
Speaker 1: if you can do them. And because she has that doll,
Speaker 1: Vashi Lisa succeeds in these tasks and as a reward,
Speaker 1: Bobby Yaga gives her one of her skull lanterns Awesome.
Speaker 1: When Vashi Lisa returns home, the lantern sets the home
Speaker 1: of her terrible new family flame, killing them, and then
Speaker 1: she goes on to marry the Tsar. The end happily
Speaker 1: ever after. In this story, it's a great example Bobba
Speaker 1: Yaga feeling filling many roles um similar to what we
Speaker 1: discussed in our episode around the Mother Destroyer. Sometimes, in
Speaker 1: other stories she is depicted as a goddess um Are
Speaker 1: and others the manifestation of winter storms. Perhaps because of
Speaker 1: this enigmatic nature, she has become quite the popular figure
Speaker 1: on the internet, and yes it is sometimes it's jokingly
Speaker 1: referred to as a feminist icon. I'm not mad that no. No.
Speaker 1: She unseated the Mermaid and Jezebel's next top creature race,
Speaker 1: beating out the Siren that's fantastic. And in two thousand thirteen,
Speaker 1: the feminist website The Hairpin launched an advice column called
Speaker 1: Asked Baba Yaga that eventually became a book called Asked
Speaker 1: Babba Yahua Otherworldly Advice for Everyday Troubles. The book's author,
Speaker 1: Tasia Katskaya said of Babba Yaga that image of an
Speaker 1: old woman living in the woods doing whatever she wants
Speaker 1: all day long continues to be the dream for myself.
Speaker 1: I'm with her, I want to be there. Um. And then,
Speaker 1: when trying to get to the bottom of Bobba Yaga's popularity,
Speaker 1: academics thought it might be due to her ability to
Speaker 1: house a paradox the good, the evil, and the in between,
Speaker 1: to live outside moral codes, and for women, specifically, her
Speaker 1: rejection of society's rules. Boom, I could see it, because
Speaker 1: I mean clearly I got I was all you are
Speaker 1: so like and you know what with all that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me do that. Um. And if you want to
Speaker 1: learn more about Bobby Yaga, you should check out the
Speaker 1: stuff you missed in History Class episode, which is our
Speaker 1: podcast done by some of our wonderful co workers here,
Speaker 1: wonderful piece Tira and Bobby Yaga, and briefly, if you're wondering,
Speaker 1: Pizza Diira is a supernatural crone from Brazilian folklore who
Speaker 1: lies and wait on roofs at night, waiting for some
Speaker 1: poor soul with a full stomach to fall asleep on
Speaker 1: their backs stomach pacing up so that they can jump
Speaker 1: and trample on them. Ah and yeah, there is an
Speaker 1: entire scientific study examining Pizza Diira and her connection to sleeperalysis,
Speaker 1: specifically her that's a great monster. Roll over, just roll over. Now.
Speaker 1: All they do is jump on your stomach. It's like
Speaker 1: a cartoon coming to life. That's amazing. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's probably pretty violent. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: really get down to it. But then at the same time,
Speaker 1: you're like what my cousin used to tell me that
Speaker 1: if I fell asleep on my back, I wouldn't survive
Speaker 1: to see the morning Into this day, I can't sleep
Speaker 1: on my back. Yeah, because she said there was something
Speaker 1: like waiting under your bed and it would it could
Speaker 1: only stab you through the back. So to this day
Speaker 1: I cannot sleep on my back. A really specific tale,
Speaker 1: it was, it was quite specific. Speaking of specific tales,
Speaker 1: this brings us probably my favorite part, right, Lilith, Lilith
Speaker 1: um and some Jewish religious interpretations. Lilith, who was Adam's
Speaker 1: first wife, went on to become the mother of all
Speaker 1: the monsters, so the mother of everything we're talking about here,
Speaker 1: after refusing to submit to the missionary position like sexual
Speaker 1: mission alright, yes, cool, cool, Okay. So this whole idea
Speaker 1: of like the missionary position and all of that, this
Speaker 1: comes from a medieval Jewish text called the Alphabet of Binsurah,
Speaker 1: which a lot of historians believe could be satirical. Um,
Speaker 1: but okay. Lilith was created with the earth, as was Adam,
Speaker 1: and had many strong opinions from love rry start. She
Speaker 1: said to Adam, I will not lie below, to which
Speaker 1: he responded, I will not lie beneath you, but only
Speaker 1: on top, for you are fit only to be in
Speaker 1: the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.
Speaker 1: Lilith snapped back, we are equal to each other inasmuch
Speaker 1: as we were both created from the earth. And then
Speaker 1: when Adam still wouldn't like listen to her, she flew away.
Speaker 1: She she took God's name in vain, which was a
Speaker 1: huge deal um, and flew away and then Adam was like,
Speaker 1: oh God, like literally God, she flew away. What will
Speaker 1: I do? And God sent three angels after her to
Speaker 1: persuade Lilith to return, inform her that if she refused,
Speaker 1: one of her children a k A. Demons would die
Speaker 1: each night. And Lili for you, she said, nope, I'm
Speaker 1: not coming back, and she promised to leave children, human
Speaker 1: children who wore an amulet to ward her off alone.
Speaker 1: So because she was like, I won't eat all of
Speaker 1: your human children as long as they take some precautions,
Speaker 1: they threatened to drown her in the I think the
Speaker 1: Red Sea, when that's why she agreed. Um, and yes,
Speaker 1: there was an ancient practice of giving children an ambulance
Speaker 1: inscribed with the names of the three angels that was
Speaker 1: meant to keep Olilith away. Lilith also is frequently condemned
Speaker 1: for wondering about at night, vexing the sons of men
Speaker 1: and causing them to defile themselves. Oh jeez. Lili's story
Speaker 1: is complex and fascinating. The first known reference of her
Speaker 1: goes back to Samaran list of demons from two thousand,
Speaker 1: four hundred b c. Lee Lu demons were similar to
Speaker 1: succuby m who seduced sleeping men in order to produce
Speaker 1: demonic children. Iterations of her appeared in ancient Egyptian, Greek,
Speaker 1: and Israeli legends. Got the name checked her and Fast
Speaker 1: and Ulysses by James Joyce. She is labeled as the
Speaker 1: patron of abortions. In C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia.
Speaker 1: She is the ancestor of the White which I didn't
Speaker 1: know that she's mentioned in the Chronicles of Naria. A
Speaker 1: tablet from the seventh or eighth century BC found in
Speaker 1: Syria mentioned Lilith owe you who fly in the darkened room,
Speaker 1: be off with you, this instant Lilith, thief, breaker of bones,
Speaker 1: so scary like that, I'm gonna put that us somewhere.
Speaker 1: In some versions of the story she made it with
Speaker 1: the archangel Simuel. In other versions a demon which I've
Speaker 1: seen versions where she's sister of God and not necessary
Speaker 1: and the darkness whatever, but not necessarily the wife of Adam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's another thing, is there is interpretation around
Speaker 1: that she never was Adam's wife. Um. A lot of
Speaker 1: discussion around the list. But when we wanted to touch
Speaker 1: on Judith Plasco wrote a parable and nteen seventy two
Speaker 1: about her about Lilith called the Coming of Lilith, reframing
Speaker 1: the story in a similar way that Wicked did with
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz as we could win to the West.
Speaker 1: In the parable she fled for refusing to be treated
Speaker 1: as lesser than Adam, who she regarded as her equal,
Speaker 1: and was viciously slandered for it. And then she and
Speaker 1: Eve looking for some women some support, they became fast friends,
Speaker 1: and Lilis sort of became a feminist hero after that,
Speaker 1: an image helped along by the nineteen seventy six launch
Speaker 1: of Lilith Magazine, complete with the tagline independent, Jewish and
Speaker 1: frankly feminist, and in the all female music festival, Lilis Fair.
Speaker 1: Of course, little fair. I love that. And then, you know,
Speaker 1: as you were talking about the retelling of the stories,
Speaker 1: and like a lot of the pop culture, which has
Speaker 1: been a new thing to bring Lilith back up supernatural,
Speaker 1: they kind of revamped her story and that as well,
Speaker 1: and she was also in True Blood not necessarily revamp
Speaker 1: part of that storyline. Um, but some modern witches and
Speaker 1: pagans invoke Lilith in their practices and right especially those
Speaker 1: involving the darker side of the feminine. So yeah, like
Speaker 1: goals around money or rights, yeah, which if any listeners
Speaker 1: are involved, and these kinds of practices and right, So
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from Oh my gosh, I could
Speaker 1: talk about Lilith. There's so much to say about this. Actually,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite books is UM called Lilith, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of reclaiming the name because then for a
Speaker 1: while the name was just seen as like evil. I
Speaker 1: do like this brings us to the end of our
Speaker 1: history of monsters, even though there's so many that we
Speaker 1: could include, and so many of these that could be
Speaker 1: fleshed out into full episodes. But I do think it's
Speaker 1: interesting ending on Lilith, like this mother of monster idea
Speaker 1: that we've been touching on the whole time, UM, and
Speaker 1: we can see these themes over and over again of
Speaker 1: like motherhood and revenge and justice and just kind of
Speaker 1: punishing eight, which is the dark side of feminine. I mean,
Speaker 1: Lilith is kind of the arc of being a femin
Speaker 1: saying hell no, hell no. Okay, well, yeah, we have
Speaker 1: a little bit more for you, but first we're going
Speaker 1: to pause for one more quick break forward from our
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you, Thank you monsters, and
Speaker 1: also thank you sponsors who are not monsters. Well it's
Speaker 1: on my brain, Okay, it's yes. Um. We did want
Speaker 1: to touch on some things that are changing because we
Speaker 1: have given what I feel like are some pretty great
Speaker 1: examples of female monsters and what they can be. We've
Speaker 1: given some not so great ones as well, but there
Speaker 1: is still this monster gap that we touched on the beginning. Um,
Speaker 1: and some badass women out there are trying to make
Speaker 1: things more equal when it comes to our betrayal around monsters.
Speaker 1: Theodora Goss got a pH d in English in part
Speaker 1: by writing a four page dissertation on Victorian monsters, and
Speaker 1: she wanted to remedy this whole thing, or at least
Speaker 1: do her part to remedy it, by writing a short
Speaker 1: called The Mad Scientist's Daughter, which follows Katherine Monroe, Justine Frankenstein,
Speaker 1: and Diana Hyde. And she built upon that universe with
Speaker 1: the novel The Strange Case of the Alchemist Daughter, which
Speaker 1: I kind of love. I love the yeah, I love
Speaker 1: the whole plotline. And when it comes to our entertainment,
Speaker 1: for so long, women have only been allowed to exist
Speaker 1: within the framework of the male gaze. And we talked
Speaker 1: about before, if she's not sexualized, she's ridiculously de sexualized.
Speaker 1: And if these for examples shows anything, we are still
Speaker 1: grappling with our fear of women's sexuality. Obviously, so minor,
Speaker 1: minor thing to tackle, right, But that that's that play
Speaker 1: in all of this. Um our discomfort with women who
Speaker 1: don't behave how we expect them to, of women who
Speaker 1: step outside the narrow box we've deemed appropriate for femininity,
Speaker 1: that's another thing that's in play at play and all this,
Speaker 1: And I do think it's interesting that, um, like we
Speaker 1: said at the top, male monsters are frequently allowed sympathy
Speaker 1: and female monsters are not. They're not as fleshed out,
Speaker 1: they're not as a whole of characters. Um. And this
Speaker 1: very thing and the fact that women commit murder at
Speaker 1: much lower rates than men contribute to a culture that
Speaker 1: sensationalized female murderers. UM. So there's a lot to talk about,
Speaker 1: so many things when it comes to female monsters, and
Speaker 1: not just nerdy stuff. I was getting to talk about
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things at least, right, I love
Speaker 1: that knows I learned a lot see how passionate you
Speaker 1: are and it's fantastic. Yeah, I got I have a
Speaker 1: lot of passionate that very diplomatic way of saying it. Um,
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from listeners. If there's any
Speaker 1: of monsters that you want to uh want us to
Speaker 1: return to, or that we didn't mention our movies, that
Speaker 1: we should watch, books we should read, you can send
Speaker 1: those our way before we get into our our outro officially,
Speaker 1: though we do have some shout outs. We do have
Speaker 1: shout outs, so of course to backtrack with all of
Speaker 1: our love for horror movies, and I picked a couple
Speaker 1: out which you may have already heard that are women
Speaker 1: in horror movie genres or talking about mysteries of swords.
Speaker 1: So Women in Caskets, which is one podcast which I
Speaker 1: know I think it's got a pretty big following anyway,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, this is cool, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, when I googled it without the word podcast,
Speaker 1: I got some really bad pictures. Don't do that. Don't
Speaker 1: do that. Um. And then switch Blade Sisters, which is
Speaker 1: also another great little podcast, great to look into. Again,
Speaker 1: they probably all have pretty big followings, but if y'all
Speaker 1: are interested, and I have not are these jump on
Speaker 1: it if y'all know more that I need to get
Speaker 1: it into or especially and he needs to get into obviously.
Speaker 1: Um remember I was trying to I needed we needed
Speaker 1: to reach out to Tan yet because she was posting
Speaker 1: about them recently too. Okay, Yes, you can send any
Speaker 1: of those such questions any at all to our email.
Speaker 1: It is Stuff Media Mom Stuff at i heeart media
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at Stuff Mom Never
Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks as always, too Odd super producer Andrew Howard,
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Steff I've Never Told
Speaker 1: you his prediction of I Heart Radio's house Stuff Works
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