Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steth.
Speaker 1: I've never told to reproduction of I Heart Radio's How
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Today we're talking about band girls and girls. Yes,
Speaker 1: actually really excited to talk about this. Forever ago we
Speaker 1: did a video on fan girls and I have been
Speaker 1: meaning to return to it ever since. And the timing
Speaker 1: feels right because as you record this, Disney plus let's
Speaker 1: just come out, and Frozen two is coming out next week.
Speaker 1: My phone has already been bombarded with advice articles on
Speaker 1: how to avoid getting earwormed with the new song, even
Speaker 1: though same phone is the one that keeps playing that
Speaker 1: song in Google Shuffle. This is why I don't listen
Speaker 1: to Google Shuffle. It's giving me mixed messages, is it?
Speaker 1: I think it has one message, which is pretty much
Speaker 1: listening and go watch obsessed Bye bye bye. Right um,
Speaker 1: and it's got me thinking all of this, how we
Speaker 1: talk about fan girls and how we talk about the
Speaker 1: things that they like. Uh yeah, and I also I
Speaker 1: recently went to Disney and seeing all the little girls
Speaker 1: in costumes. I have a particular soft spot for Ray
Speaker 1: from Star Wars. Seeing girls in those costumes. Another Cube costume, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. Were you a fan girl of anything, Samantha, Um,
Speaker 1: I actually fan girls over a few young boys in
Speaker 1: my time. Jonathan Brandon's was my heart Throb r I
Speaker 1: p UM when I was younger. But then I would
Speaker 1: also get really obsessed with like Buffy and Saved by
Speaker 1: the Bell, which I would watch religiously. Um. I could
Speaker 1: probably still tell you all about all the episodes for
Speaker 1: each one of those things. Um. And of course I
Speaker 1: was really obsessed with like different music groups and new
Speaker 1: kids on the block, with people about who was better
Speaker 1: was a Joey girl okay? Um? In Sync. I'll actually
Speaker 1: fought with my sister about who's better in sinker Backstreet
Speaker 1: Boys and um. And I also had a really big yeah,
Speaker 1: I love for boys the men because I just wanted
Speaker 1: them to croon to me about how they loved me.
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's great that you said that, because they're
Speaker 1: going to be returning to that kind of idea very
Speaker 1: end of the episode. So something to look forward to.
Speaker 1: But what about you know, I know you've got a lot,
Speaker 1: but give me a rundown. I was fan girling all
Speaker 1: in all kinds of things. I was huge into Mary
Speaker 1: Kay Nashley Young Herchilees Charmed Supernatural. Green Day is probably
Speaker 1: my greatest example of if you were going to do
Speaker 1: a classic, this is a fangirl. I would check all
Speaker 1: the boxes for Great Day and that was probably the
Speaker 1: big one. Harry Potter and Star Wars um and I
Speaker 1: get star Gate one. Yeah. I also had and have
Speaker 1: some fan girl tendencies around about a hundred other things
Speaker 1: these days. But I suppose we should step back a
Speaker 1: bit and define fangirl from dictionary dot com. Fangirl is
Speaker 1: a female fan, especially one who is obsessive about comics, movies, music,
Speaker 1: or science fiction. The Miriam Webster definition is a bit different.
Speaker 1: A girl or woman who is an extremely, are overly
Speaker 1: enthusiastic fan of someone or something. An extension of fan
Speaker 1: girls is fan girling, which is basically the verb form um.
Speaker 1: And then we have this from Urban Dictionary, the art
Speaker 1: of obsessing over fandoms, the characters in the fandoms, the
Speaker 1: actors who play the character. If the fandom is a
Speaker 1: film or show, et cetera, just saying something to do
Speaker 1: with a fan girl fandom will usually lead them to
Speaker 1: frantically crashing into the room you're in, making high pitched
Speaker 1: sounds that to you might sound meaningless, but to other
Speaker 1: fan girls will make total science. Example. Wait, wait, do
Speaker 1: you want to do this as a back and forth?
Speaker 1: You want to? Okay, I'll be the I'll be the person. Okay.
Speaker 1: So this is the example that Urban Dictionary gave, so
Speaker 1: me Dean Winchester. Oh god, oh my god, Acholes said
Speaker 1: the name baby up fangirling again. Uh and then she
Speaker 1: passes up clap by the way. I have to I
Speaker 1: have to ask, was it was the actual example supernatural? Yes,
Speaker 1: that's hilarious because it is does fit right because I
Speaker 1: feel like I've gotten into supernatural because of you was
Speaker 1: a girl. Yeah, yeah, I bet you were. I bet
Speaker 1: you were. So the sexiest Man Alive was announced from
Speaker 1: People magazine and it's John Legend, who can also sing
Speaker 1: to me all day long. Um. And there were several
Speaker 1: several people who were really upset and because they wanted
Speaker 1: they thought other people were better, because the people always
Speaker 1: have opinions, and one of the names that kept coming
Speaker 1: up us Dean Winchester or Jinson Knackles. So he's been
Speaker 1: thrown out as being should have been the speciest man alive.
Speaker 1: He's a finelooking spesstment. And you know, the thing we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this too is a lot of
Speaker 1: the reason if that dictionary Urban Dictionary definition wasn't clear
Speaker 1: that we dismiss things fangirls like is because we assume
Speaker 1: it's very superficial. Um, and I would counter, you can
Speaker 1: appreciate some good looks and other things. You know, you
Speaker 1: love someone who just you know, a somber and brooding
Speaker 1: I do specifically, like I was saying that for myself,
Speaker 1: but that is definitely the character of Dean Winchester. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this's got turned into a whole fangirl thing right now. Um,
Speaker 1: there is another Urban Dictionary definition I want to include,
Speaker 1: which is the reaction of fangirl has to any mention
Speaker 1: or citing of the object of her affection. These reactions
Speaker 1: include shortness of breath, fainting, high pitched noises, shaking, fears,
Speaker 1: head shaking as if in the midst of a seizure,
Speaker 1: wet panties, endless blog post, et cetera. Well, this is
Speaker 1: actually indicative of something we want to dig into into
Speaker 1: this episode, the condescending attitude we have towards fangirls and
Speaker 1: the things that they love. The stereotypical rendering of a
Speaker 1: fangirl involves a teenage girl, high pitched screaming, and obsessive behavior. Right.
Speaker 1: The word fan girl was first used as a noun
Speaker 1: with its current meaning in nineteen thirty four. It was
Speaker 1: first used as a verb and two thousand five teeny
Speaker 1: boppers was coined in the nineteen sixties with the definition
Speaker 1: of quote an early adolescent girl, but with a connotation
Speaker 1: of animalistic tendencies similar to the modern fangirl definition UM
Speaker 1: and side note, One thing I personally love about fangirls
Speaker 1: is the language UM they've created to communicate. I could
Speaker 1: devote an entire episode to the acronyms eye trafficked on
Speaker 1: in on fan ficsion dot net. UM. It's creative and
Speaker 1: so specific to things we all know, like ust unresolved
Speaker 1: sexual tension. UM. Also, I discovered standom Sebastian stands fandom,
Speaker 1: which explains some questions I've gotten when addressed as the
Speaker 1: Winter Soldiers. You just look good as the Winter Soldier anyway, Obviously,
Speaker 1: that's all I wanted out that you're fishing off well.
Speaker 1: Fanboy is the male version of fan girl, not surprising,
Speaker 1: and if you're curious. The Dictionary definition of a fan
Speaker 1: is a person who was a strong interest in or
Speaker 1: admiration for a particular person or a thing. The thing
Speaker 1: that then separates the fan from the fan girl is
Speaker 1: the girl and the view that fan girls are extreme,
Speaker 1: that they're out there rapidly devouring all the interviews, collecting
Speaker 1: rare photos, writing blog post and that their phantom consumes
Speaker 1: their identity. Yeah, and rabbid is a word that comes
Speaker 1: up a lot when you're talking about fan girls. If
Speaker 1: you go online and find um any x y Z
Speaker 1: signs your fan girl, most of them are not complimentary. Um,
Speaker 1: some of them are, but most of them are not.
Speaker 1: So we have a lot to to dig into here.
Speaker 1: But first we have a quick break for from our
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So if you
Speaker 1: look at our history, throughout our history, there have been
Speaker 1: infamous examples of fan girls. Perhaps the most well known
Speaker 1: is Beatlemania. More modernly, we have things like Justin Bieber
Speaker 1: the Believers um bts one direction, which, like we mentioned
Speaker 1: in our fan fiction episodes, because there was a part
Speaker 1: one and two um and that those are great primers
Speaker 1: for this one one direction. Fan fiction makes up most
Speaker 1: of the fan fiction on the app what pad really Yep, huh,
Speaker 1: I will say fandoms they're powerful. Oh yeah, just as
Speaker 1: we're learning, like, there's a whole controversy with Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: and it and she's reached out to her fan group
Speaker 1: and it's giant and is getting a lot of traction. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So from a nineteen six New Yorker article, most of
Speaker 1: his fans are playing lonely girls from lower middle class homes.
Speaker 1: They are dazzled by the life Sinatural leads and wish
Speaker 1: they could share it. In it, they insist that they
Speaker 1: love him, but they do not use the verb in
Speaker 1: its ordinary sense. As they apply it to him. It
Speaker 1: is synonymous with worship or idealize. Yeah, so that was
Speaker 1: a whole This was sort of before Sinatra got big,
Speaker 1: I believe, but that was written and it was like,
Speaker 1: look at these deities, right, so right, And I think
Speaker 1: that was part of the reason he wasn't taken seriously
Speaker 1: because they just assumed as an actor. He wasn't taken
Speaker 1: seriously as an actor because he was like, Oh, you're
Speaker 1: just performing for the ladies, right, And we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about that more in depth later. Fan girls actually
Speaker 1: get a lot of credit though for cementing the careers
Speaker 1: of what are now with distance and mail, legitimizing critically
Speaker 1: a to musicians or I guess they don't get the credit,
Speaker 1: but they should um. Their dedication and willingness to spend
Speaker 1: money and spread the word was the basis for artists
Speaker 1: to continue making music. Or you can even think of
Speaker 1: actors like James Dean, Leonardo DiCaprio, which was the reason
Speaker 1: I still haven't seen Titan because because I was so
Speaker 1: afraid of being called like a fan girl. Um, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. Also a bit or Michael J.
Speaker 1: Fox who actually allegedly changed his middle initial from A
Speaker 1: so that magazines would quit calling him a Fox. Interesting,
Speaker 1: you know it's also fandoms. This is not necessarily fan
Speaker 1: girls have brought back canceled shows. Yeah, so they have done.
Speaker 1: These groups are powerful once again. Ye oh yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: And something else we did want to touch on here
Speaker 1: we mentioned in our fan fiction episodes as well as
Speaker 1: a book by Rainbow Rawl fan Girl. This story falls Calf,
Speaker 1: who was a fan girl of Simon Snow, which is
Speaker 1: a Harry Potter analog. She spends a lot of her
Speaker 1: time writing Simon snow fan fiction, a fan fiction that
Speaker 1: is peppered throughout the book, and there's a sequel that
Speaker 1: is the complete fan fiction and it's called carry On.
Speaker 1: I have both of these. I'm working on the first
Speaker 1: one right now, really enjoying it. Okay um. Recently, the
Speaker 1: Belvoir and Brisbane Festival, co production and association with the
Speaker 1: Australian Theater for Young People, put out a play called
Speaker 1: Fan Girls. Eve Blake wrote the book, music and lyrics,
Speaker 1: and Page Rotre directed it. Um. Eve Blake got the
Speaker 1: idea for the play after meeting a thirteen year old
Speaker 1: girl who told her, in absolute seriousness she was going
Speaker 1: to marry Harry Styles, and Blake laughed, and this led
Speaker 1: her to examine that reaction in delvinto every aspect of
Speaker 1: fandom and fan girls. She later said, all my assumptions
Speaker 1: about fan girls were built on society wide prejudices towards
Speaker 1: young women when they express passion. And what I realized
Speaker 1: is that the world looks very differently at a group
Speaker 1: of young boys screaming their lungs at a football match,
Speaker 1: then it does add a group of young fan girls
Speaker 1: screaming their lungs out at a Beeper concert so obviously
Speaker 1: she's not alone in her assumption. Fan Girls is always
Speaker 1: a negative term. As a fandom has become more mainstream,
Speaker 1: so too has a backlash against fan girls. When Peter
Speaker 1: Kappadelli was announced as a new doctor, the internet was
Speaker 1: full of delighted comments about how this would finally with
Speaker 1: the fandom of the fan girls. The hashtag we hate
Speaker 1: fan girls started trending. Yeah, and for those if you
Speaker 1: don't know the doctor being doctor who and so in
Speaker 1: that in that kind of mythos, the doctor regenerates and
Speaker 1: it's a way for the story to continue, but also
Speaker 1: for the production to casting new actor, right, and so
Speaker 1: the actor previous to this one, Matt Smith was young
Speaker 1: and I'm attractive and a lot of was now on
Speaker 1: the crown or was on the y. Yeah, but anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was kind of this backlash against what was seen
Speaker 1: as so superficial fan girls who were just fans because
Speaker 1: they thought he was attractive. And yeah, and that has
Speaker 1: lasted so long. Oh yeah, show BBCIT usually doesn't keep
Speaker 1: a show. Well, you know the interesting thing about that,
Speaker 1: Like we talked about in our fan fiction episode this
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, I think it was one of the
Speaker 1: original like when we talked talked about fan fiction. It
Speaker 1: was one of the kind of first waves of UH
Speaker 1: official I guess fan fan club, fan organizations, and magazines
Speaker 1: and here it is to this day. Star Trek was
Speaker 1: the other one still also still um from Pamela Voi sick,
Speaker 1: the cultural lives of Doctor Who, Doctor Who's fandom, or papor.
Speaker 1: The dismissal of fan girls is familiar to those of
Speaker 1: us who study pop culture as a stereotypical denigration of
Speaker 1: feminized mass culture and opposition to masculine quote art. It
Speaker 1: assumes that female fans are an add on rivative and
Speaker 1: lesser than male fandom, which is assumed to be motivated
Speaker 1: by more serious interest the vagaries of time travel versus
Speaker 1: the appeal of TV stars. Yeah, and something personally I
Speaker 1: was thinking about this. I remember my brother and his
Speaker 1: friends making fun of my love of Star Wars, which
Speaker 1: they also loved, UH and making me feel like not
Speaker 1: only was I not welcome UM and that this was
Speaker 1: something I was going to have to keep to myself,
Speaker 1: that something was wrong with me, that I should be
Speaker 1: embarrassed about it. UM. And I it got to the
Speaker 1: point that not I kind of hid my fandom, and
Speaker 1: I went to my mom about it and asked her
Speaker 1: if something was wrong with me? Um, And then yeah,
Speaker 1: I avoided things I associated with fan girls, like boy
Speaker 1: bands and Titanic. Right, I never saw it because all
Speaker 1: my friends thought Leonardo DiCaprio was hot, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be any part of it. I
Speaker 1: didn't le I was a heart fandom that just win
Speaker 1: against the grain about who I was a fan of.
Speaker 1: So did you like in Titanic? Oh? I didn't like anyone? Okay? Yeah? Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't likely I was scrawny. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't like the scrawny ones. Um. So
Speaker 1: several boy bands were formed specifically with targeting straight fan
Speaker 1: girls in mind, which is actually something that happened with
Speaker 1: both Backstreet Boys and in SINC. The manager Louke Pearlman
Speaker 1: made a lot of money and then had a lot
Speaker 1: of legal battles with that as well, because he created
Speaker 1: these bands and knowing that he could monetize off of
Speaker 1: fan girls, and damn it, he surely did. He did
Speaker 1: until in Sinc. Fought fought him and got the rice back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is smart. Yeah, And yeah, there is a lot
Speaker 1: going on here and involves several things we've talked about
Speaker 1: in past episodes. One of them is gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is
Speaker 1: typically done by men who feel entitled to dictate the
Speaker 1: right way to be a fan and who is allowed
Speaker 1: to be in the club. These right ways to be
Speaker 1: a fan are typically quoted as male fantish activities that
Speaker 1: are typically coded as feminine, like cosplay or making costumes.
Speaker 1: Fan fiction fan art are derioted and seen as quote
Speaker 1: not true or acceptable fandom. And think of how comfortable
Speaker 1: we feel making fun of and demeaning things associated with
Speaker 1: fangirls like Twilight. I like Twilight. It was a very
Speaker 1: easy read. I you know what, I've come around to
Speaker 1: doing the research for this. Fan girls are onto something.
Speaker 1: Maybe what they're onto is it a great piece of art,
Speaker 1: But they're on there's a reason why it's popular. They're
Speaker 1: not a lot of sexual frustration the USC No no,
Speaker 1: no no. But we are going to talk about some
Speaker 1: of that later. Um. Some creators recently have come out
Speaker 1: and said, hey, stop policing my fandom, because fan girl
Speaker 1: money is just as good as your bro money. Right again, though,
Speaker 1: men have capitalized on fangirls, as we talked about Lou
Speaker 1: parlman Um. They are created in knowing that they can
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, including Barbie dolls or you know,
Speaker 1: or Kindle whatever dolls in synct dolls. You've got InSync dolls,
Speaker 1: don't you. I don't. That's the one thing I never Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't buy anything much. I didn't even go to
Speaker 1: the concerts either. Really they were never. I'm sure they were.
Speaker 1: I remember I had a friend who went to Backstreet
Speaker 1: Boys concert elementary school or something, and she, I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel so happy for just thinking about it, because
Speaker 1: she was so exciting static, I'll see them. I definitely
Speaker 1: watched everything on TV. Whenever they would come on, I
Speaker 1: would record it or whatever. Anyway, So women also distanced
Speaker 1: themselves from fan girls and maybe to avoid being made
Speaker 1: fun of as you were talking about, or to be
Speaker 1: deemed legitimate, maybe because of the whole girl which implies immaturity,
Speaker 1: which is very demeaning and manipulative. Yeah uh. And you
Speaker 1: can also see our Toxic Fandom episode for more on
Speaker 1: gate keeping and how the history of being a nerd
Speaker 1: and the hierarchies and expertise that came with it led
Speaker 1: to this misogynistic gate keeping. In that episode, we also
Speaker 1: went into the fake geek girl, which is different but
Speaker 1: related to fan girls. UM. Fake geek girl is something
Speaker 1: is someone who is just a faker and knows nothing
Speaker 1: about any given fandom that she is pretending to like.
Speaker 1: Um in the mind of dude geeks. Anyway, she she
Speaker 1: really isn't fake. Eat Girl's a thing. And something else
Speaker 1: that's happening is the dismissal and demonizing of things women
Speaker 1: and girls like, and specifically things young women like. It
Speaker 1: goes beyond the message of you don't belong, you're not
Speaker 1: doing it right, but to outright mocking and disgust and
Speaker 1: their Internet spaces fangirls have carved out and created for
Speaker 1: themselves that are havens for them to express themselves, but
Speaker 1: by large these spaces are far and few between. Wrapped
Speaker 1: Up in this is the weaponized word hysteria, which is
Speaker 1: come on, y'all, frequently leveled at fangirls, along with others
Speaker 1: like emotional which apparently is a weak thing, um, and
Speaker 1: things we don't see when it comes to fan boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we've talked before about bronies on the show and
Speaker 1: how when a man, when men enter a fandom, that
Speaker 1: has classically been derided as feminine. UM, which is terrible,
Speaker 1: but it's just seemed as this like silly thing women like, Um,
Speaker 1: that fandom is legitimized. Something similar happened with the Beatles. Um.
Speaker 1: When it was women who were the fans, they were
Speaker 1: viewed as hysterical and the Beatles themselves not worth the time.
Speaker 1: Then dudes were like, wait, this is good stuff. And
Speaker 1: then the fandom is legitimized if they're making great music
Speaker 1: that we still listen to to this day. Um. And
Speaker 1: of course sports fandom, which has similar levels of fan
Speaker 1: expression but as coded as masculine and therefore okay, well yeah,
Speaker 1: that means you can wear the jerseys now them fantasy
Speaker 1: football and say things like I'm not gay but yeah,
Speaker 1: which is which is yeah? And if sports are your thing,
Speaker 1: totally cool, love it general. But we shouldn't be judging
Speaker 1: other fandoms because they're feminine on different standards, and you
Speaker 1: know they did. That's the gate keeping too, that their
Speaker 1: expectations as of women are not should not like sports
Speaker 1: as much as they do. Yes, And we had several
Speaker 1: listeners right in about that when we did our actually
Speaker 1: our fan fiction episode about how it was just assumed
Speaker 1: they were there because their husband's significant other whoever dragged
Speaker 1: them there, or they were attracted to one of them, right,
Speaker 1: And I know the whole social media stuff. People are
Speaker 1: making fun of the girls who are doing selfies, saying
Speaker 1: that's the onies and they're they're there is to take
Speaker 1: selfish and it's like, what if they're just enjoying their time?
Speaker 1: If fun, let them beat them, Let them beat them.
Speaker 1: And we have some some more some more stuff about
Speaker 1: fan girls for you, but first we have one more
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back,
Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor. Pop Culture experts have examined fan girldom
Speaker 1: for just about as long as it has existed and
Speaker 1: why our culture has such anxiety around it. And one
Speaker 1: thing experts believe is a part of this is um
Speaker 1: how girls go through adolescence and are feeling sexual desires
Speaker 1: expressing that via celebrity or fictional character, that that's something
Speaker 1: that is safe right now in our society. Girls grew
Speaker 1: up with the message that their existence in life is
Speaker 1: wrapped in finding a husband. The hotter and richer, the better.
Speaker 1: Luckily this is changing. Um celebrities check those boxes and
Speaker 1: despite our the leaves that will one day meet the
Speaker 1: object of our affection we haven't, which gives us artistic
Speaker 1: license to imagine how great our lives will be without
Speaker 1: the reality of what it would really be like. And
Speaker 1: the lyrics like you're saying earlier they tell. These lyrics
Speaker 1: are telling young women and girls, I'm gonna love you
Speaker 1: forever no matter what you were perfect, you're beautiful, you
Speaker 1: don't need to change a damn thing, and who would
Speaker 1: yes to be seen all of a sudden um, and
Speaker 1: we've said it before, we'll say it again. We are
Speaker 1: terrified a female sexuality, particularly young women's sexuality. A lot
Speaker 1: of geeky white dudes criticize fan girls for being only
Speaker 1: interested in hot lead actors, and this is not true.
Speaker 1: Fandom when look at at the Phantom of One Direction,
Speaker 1: is generally assumed that all their fans are fan girls,
Speaker 1: So therefore, liking One Direction automatically means you are only
Speaker 1: there for their looks, You aren't very intelligent, and everything
Speaker 1: you like a suspect that your thoughts and opinions are
Speaker 1: valid and that not like in One Direction makes the
Speaker 1: parson better. Ah. Yeah, this is gross and sexist. The
Speaker 1: fact that women and especially young woman likes something does
Speaker 1: not give people the right to put all these assumptions
Speaker 1: on them, and even on news coverage reflects our derision.
Speaker 1: When One Direction broke up, a lot of news coverage
Speaker 1: outright really killed the fans and their distress. But one
Speaker 1: of their favorite fans broke up. That really sucks it.
Speaker 1: Does I hate it when the show gets canceled? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes me really sad. Yeah. Harry Styles has been
Speaker 1: asked whether he believes that One Direction is largely female
Speaker 1: fan base has held him back from being seen as
Speaker 1: a serious musician kind of like what you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: Um His response, who's to say that young girls who
Speaker 1: like pop music short for popular right have worse musical
Speaker 1: taste than a thirty year old hipster guy. That's not
Speaker 1: up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing,
Speaker 1: there's no goal post. Young girls like the Beatles. You're
Speaker 1: gonna tell me they're not serious. How can you say
Speaker 1: eight young girls don't get it? There are future our
Speaker 1: future doctors, lawyers, mother's presidents. They kind of keep the
Speaker 1: world going. Teenage girl fans. They don't lie. If they
Speaker 1: like you, they're there. They don't act too cool. They
Speaker 1: like you and they tell you which is sick meaning
Speaker 1: in a good way. Yeah. Um. And from a Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone article about Harry Styles, Uh, there was this quote
Speaker 1: he knows he serves at the pleasure of a girl
Speaker 1: audience that absolutely cannot be bought, scammed, condescended to, or
Speaker 1: taken for granted. It's been tried. If you're a girl
Speaker 1: pop fan, you are the only power player in the
Speaker 1: music business. Everybody else is scared stiff of you. It's true.
Speaker 1: I've also read arguments that fan girl is a de
Speaker 1: sexualized form of groupie. That makes sense, yeah, because we're
Speaker 1: so afraid of women's sexual agency. In this dichotomy, women
Speaker 1: are either superficial, unintelligent fans in the derogatory understanding what
Speaker 1: a fan girl is, or a woman who is only
Speaker 1: in a fandom to ultimately have sex. Both dismissed that
Speaker 1: women might actually like the music or whatever it is
Speaker 1: that they're fanning over, like we have to sexualize them
Speaker 1: in order to validate why they might like something, and
Speaker 1: all this language and derision around fan girls sort of
Speaker 1: creates a cage for women were the only acceptable way
Speaker 1: to express their motions around something they love is very
Speaker 1: measured and we can also see this judgment around how
Speaker 1: young women speak. Yeah, because if you think about the
Speaker 1: all of the articles around up talk or vocal fry,
Speaker 1: um yeah yeah, yeah, A part of it two feels
Speaker 1: like an acceptable way to express sexist thoughts pointing at
Speaker 1: something we so far have allowed and supported, making fun
Speaker 1: of and taking pleasure, and young women crash against the
Speaker 1: patriarchy and fail. It kind of weirs me out the
Speaker 1: more I think about how comfortable we are, which is
Speaker 1: being like, look, how stupid and silly these young girls
Speaker 1: are because they like this thing so unnecessary? Why I
Speaker 1: take the joy from someone? Yeah? Come on, Um, Adolescence
Speaker 1: is a messy time for I would say all of us,
Speaker 1: with the most of us, a time when we're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out who we are, all these pieces of
Speaker 1: our identity, just trying to stay alive. Fandom is a
Speaker 1: way of finding a tribe, and pieces of fandom are
Speaker 1: ways to find parts of yourself to figure out what
Speaker 1: you want, which can change with age. Um, it's a
Speaker 1: tool to learn about yourself. I said the fan fiction episode,
Speaker 1: I learned all about sex right from band fiction and
Speaker 1: what I liked and what I did it. Um one
Speaker 1: Steady conducted on young adult fan culture concluded idolization of
Speaker 1: pop stars has unique characteristics for adolescence. It provides a
Speaker 1: basis for self expression, the construction of self identity, and
Speaker 1: the achievement of independence. Um and yeah, this is also
Speaker 1: a time when, um, you are going through your budding
Speaker 1: sexuality and sexual desires and you're feeling these things. I mean,
Speaker 1: it just kind of makes sense, right Lance Bass figured
Speaker 1: out he was gay or actually came out after instinct,
Speaker 1: but was told not to come out because that would
Speaker 1: ruin the fan fandom. Oh, I pretending to like girls,
Speaker 1: which happens a lot. But yeah, I think it's definitely
Speaker 1: a time that people start figuring out people girls, anyone
Speaker 1: who is a fan, start figuring out your sexuality. You
Speaker 1: were talking about previously about X files, ahalyzing, you're very
Speaker 1: trying to do both of them, and that says a
Speaker 1: lot for sure. Yeah, And I was also thinking about
Speaker 1: how since the message we get, or at least I
Speaker 1: can say personally that I got, was that you need
Speaker 1: to get married and it's gonna be the greatest, best
Speaker 1: thing of your whole life, then you're going to fantasize
Speaker 1: about finding that right person. We've been conditioned to believe
Speaker 1: true love is the ultimate thing, right, And so here's
Speaker 1: this for me. It was Ryan Gosling and he was
Speaker 1: the and I told my mom I would marry and
Speaker 1: bless her heart. She did not laugh at me. Uh
Speaker 1: I told people that would be going to marry anyone
Speaker 1: in the specifics. I don't think I did. M hmmm,
Speaker 1: I really yeah, I felt it. And um, I do
Speaker 1: want to say, of course, there are unhealthy expressions of
Speaker 1: fandom in all aspects of fandom, including fan girls and
Speaker 1: fan girl communities. Fan girls can and definitely do engage
Speaker 1: in their own form of gate keeping, like flaming, which
Speaker 1: is the way to shut up voices they don't like,
Speaker 1: especially devastating when an entire fan club turns on you.
Speaker 1: I had an experience, a very tiny experience with Ariana
Speaker 1: Grandes fan club and uh no, thank you. It was terrible.
Speaker 1: I apologize. I'm sorry. Um, I'm a little afraid of
Speaker 1: the bay Hives as well as the Swifties, but like,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed both these artists. So I have nothing to say.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they're fear Yeah. Well, like you've been saying,
Speaker 1: they're powerful. Powerful. Um. One thing that does differentiate fan girls, though,
Speaker 1: is the stream obsessive qualities of it or um troubling beliefs.
Speaker 1: A lot of these things can be phases, right, Like
Speaker 1: adolescents is a phase. That's not to diminish fan girls
Speaker 1: or what they like at all, or to say that
Speaker 1: everything that fangirls like is a phase, but there are
Speaker 1: parts of it that can be and it's like totally
Speaker 1: natural and health you, right. And that being said, fan
Speaker 1: labor is often replaced with derogatory whereas like stalking or
Speaker 1: creepy when it comes to fangirls. But fan labor is
Speaker 1: just a part of fandom finding out all the details,
Speaker 1: just dissecting them, memorizing them, and adding this intelligence to
Speaker 1: the fan community. That's the same level of knowledge among
Speaker 1: male fans or sports fans, which is not looked upon
Speaker 1: as negative as soon as expertise. Rock music critic Jessica
Speaker 1: Hopper tweeted a while back, replace the world fan girl
Speaker 1: with expert and see what happens. And psychologists do caution
Speaker 1: about celebrity and unrealistic body image standards that girls may
Speaker 1: internalize and manifest as an eating disorder. We've talked about
Speaker 1: that previously, and that is definitely something that we have
Speaker 1: to be careful of. Yeah, and that that's something that
Speaker 1: when I was researching this, UM, this article came up
Speaker 1: of pretty much reassuring parents, Yes, you're fan girl, your daughter,
Speaker 1: she might it's fine, she might be obsessed, but here
Speaker 1: are the things you should actually be looking for, right,
Speaker 1: And a lot of the things were, yeah, body image standards,
Speaker 1: if the celebrity in question drinks a lot or smokes, um,
Speaker 1: or if there's an underlying issue like depression, um that
Speaker 1: has sort of become wrapped up in the fandom or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But it's not the fandom or expressing
Speaker 1: the love for that. It's a different thing, right right right,
Speaker 1: um And yeah, I just last night was amazed at UM.
Speaker 1: Green Day was my I think most best example of
Speaker 1: all of this, And somebody asked me a random tribute
Speaker 1: question and damn it ified. I still don't have it
Speaker 1: rally around you do? You learn all of these things,
Speaker 1: do and you contribute and collaborate UMTV shows like I'll
Speaker 1: go back and look at there i am dB stuff
Speaker 1: and just saying like who's with what and where they're from? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what that was. Oh and they were born
Speaker 1: in this time. That's cute. Yeah yeah. Um So in conclusion,
Speaker 1: I suppose the thing is there are different levels of fandom, um,
Speaker 1: and you get to decide what kind of fan that
Speaker 1: you are. No one else can slap a label on
Speaker 1: you as much as they're going to try. Fandom is
Speaker 1: a diverse space, and by policing it, we're not allowing
Speaker 1: it to grow and be as robust and creative and
Speaker 1: welcoming as it can and should be. Fangirls are not
Speaker 1: a monelist. We come in a variety of ages. Some
Speaker 1: of us are there for the hot celebrity, others or not.
Speaker 1: It might be a comp of both, or it might
Speaker 1: differ depending on the fandom, right, I will say the
Speaker 1: whole different ages. It's harder to be a fan girl
Speaker 1: when all of the new stuff has really young kids
Speaker 1: in there, and I'm like, oh dirty, Yeah that's something else.
Speaker 1: That's a different topic. Um. So yeah, I really left
Speaker 1: this feeling I warmth in my heart for the fan girl.
Speaker 1: Um and I still am in many ways a fan girl.
Speaker 1: But just again, don't I respect the fan girl because
Speaker 1: they're onto something. They are experts, and they're making you money,
Speaker 1: yes or someone not me, I don't know, but I mean,
Speaker 1: any fan girls of this show. I want to write
Speaker 1: in somebody who wrote a fan fiction with me in
Speaker 1: it once and it was the best day of my
Speaker 1: entire life. I want. I don't actually because I'm scared
Speaker 1: of what what that would be. You can never know
Speaker 1: how I will go. Um. If you want to hear
Speaker 1: me fan girling about one of my favorite movies, you
Speaker 1: can go check out the episode I did on the
Speaker 1: podcast movie crush Um with her friend Chuck Um. And
Speaker 1: I did it on Spider Man Into the Spider Verse,
Speaker 1: which Samantha knows my favorite. The love that you have
Speaker 1: for that movie, I left it might just my face
Speaker 1: hurt from smiling so much. I love that movie. Um.
Speaker 1: And also I want to fan girls. Ya. Fangirl Annie
Speaker 1: was in an amazing movie that we've already talked about
Speaker 1: previously and she was fantastic in it and our friend Paul,
Speaker 1: who directed and wrote it with her, did an amazing job.
Speaker 1: Annie in the City, which is out now on Amazon. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So if you have Amazon Prime you can watch it
Speaker 1: for free. Yes. So, uh, as a fan girl of
Speaker 1: Annie in the City, you definitely should check it out. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're looking for further reading.
Speaker 1: Other than fan Girls, which we already mentioned, you can
Speaker 1: check out fan Girls Scenes from Modern Music Culture by
Speaker 1: Ewan's um. If you're a fan girl of something and
Speaker 1: want to share some fan art, fan fiction, whatever, please
Speaker 1: do makes me a puppet one day one day and
Speaker 1: we had a puppet. Um. And while we're talking about
Speaker 1: fan girls, want to shout out to a couple of
Speaker 1: podcasts on the topic fan girls, and one is fan
Speaker 1: Girl Happy Hour hosted by Renee and Anna, who talked
Speaker 1: about all the different things, including the movie The Craft,
Speaker 1: which I think we still need to do um and
Speaker 1: throwing things like robot sex. So their episodes are really fun.
Speaker 1: And then there is the Nerdy Watch with Reese your
Speaker 1: last name doing some great things. But the best of
Speaker 1: what I would be listening to on her show is
Speaker 1: all of the Saved by the Bell episodes, which he
Speaker 1: does and she does a great job and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: it very much. So nicely done, Race, nicely done um.
Speaker 1: And also I'm gonna shout out to my girl, Jamie Summers.
Speaker 1: That's her name on the Twitter's her candle. As at
Speaker 1: dark Toka, she was able to find some amazing muppet
Speaker 1: baby toys that we mentioned about the puppet episodes and
Speaker 1: even mentioned where I forgot about that they appear in
Speaker 1: the Muppets Take Manhattan. How could you forget? I know,
Speaker 1: I know, so I really what kind of fair girls?
Speaker 1: It's been a long time, Like, the fact that it's
Speaker 1: back was surprising, So I love that it's back. I
Speaker 1: am starting to get that you might be a secret
Speaker 1: fan girl. I just gotta own it, Smantha. Look, I
Speaker 1: didn't watch many cartoons, but for some reason, that was
Speaker 1: the one. And it was cartoons at that point, it
Speaker 1: wasn't Muppets, uh, and that was one of the ones
Speaker 1: that I just had loved. Well, it looks like I
Speaker 1: should check it out. Maybe I will. Maybe I need
Speaker 1: a new thing. Um. But in the meantime, if you
Speaker 1: would like to email us, we would love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at mom stuf podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've
Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer
Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1: Stam never told you. He's a prodection of I Heart Radios.
Speaker 1: How Steff works for more podcasts from iHeartRadio of his
Speaker 1: Dieartradio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.